A Line Of Scrimmage Called A Contract
A report from the Oklahoman. “Housing made forward progress with a shotgun approach for years, but it’s become a ground game in Oklahoma City, with buyers and sellers staring one another down across a line of scrimmage called a contract. Some buyers don’t get it, Realtors said. ‘They offer silly amounts of money,’ said Jim McWhirter, who owns Gemini Builders and Gemini Realtors in Choctaw.”
“McWhirter, president of the Central Oklahoma Home Builders Association, said he doesn’t always take such insults in stride. One buyer ‘offered me $50,000 less than what we were asking. I countered back with $5,000 more than I was asking,’ he said. ‘Would I advise a client to do that? Probably not.’”
The Lubbock Avalanche Journal from Texas. “Area real estate agents are facing something many have never experienced before in Lubbock - a down housing market.”
“‘We still have plenty of buyers out there. We just have lots of homes,’ said Realtor Cheryl Isaacs, who’s been surprised by the number of new listings that continue to pop up on a daily basis. ‘There are a lot of people who are testing the market (for price), but what they don’t seem to understand is there’s a lot to choose from out there,’ she said.”
“John Walton, president of Century 21/John Walton Realtors characterized the market as stable. ‘I’ve been at this 33 years. I’ve seen it go up and down. Sometimes you have to take the sweet with the sour. I’ve said we live on an island out here,’ he said.”
“Isaacs said if sellers are serious about selling their homes, they have to be realistic. ‘They have to be updated and they have to look sharp and they have to be priced realistically,’ she said.”
“As for buyers, Isaacs said: ‘If they have good credit, they will get a loan.’”
“John Sweeney just wishes the noise would stop. ‘I just wish the national news would shut up,’ said the president of the West Texas Home Builders Association.”
“Local builders are doing what’s expected of them, he said, concentrating more these days on custom-built homes instead of speculative building, which some blame on larger companies that came into the local market and then left.”
“A Lubbock Avalanche-Journal analysis of the marketplace found new home permit construction down 10.8 percent at the midyear point as the city continued to wrestle with excess inventory. That was an improvement from this time a year ago, when permit activity plunged by 20.2 percent.”
“Ron Bassinger, head of Ron Bassinger Inc., said his business remains steady but admits there are more skittish buyers in the market today than in the past - many unable to make clear decisions.”
“‘It’s still better than its been in the past. I’ve been in this business since 1964 and I can tell you we had a tougher time in the mid 1980s,’ he said alluding to state’s last major real estate bust.”
“Rick Betenbough, with Lubbock-based Betenbough Homes, said the industry is in the middle of what he believes is a two-year slowdown. Betenbough, the only company to open a new subdivision in Lubbock in 2008, blames much of the local problem on outside speculative building companies who came in, dropped product on the ground and then abandoned the market.”
“‘Our permits today are realistically tied to sales. We’re not down (sales wise) that far, but we’re not up either. The Lubbock market is flat. Most of us are holding our cards close to our vests and building less specs, which tends to get everyone in trouble,’ he said.”
“B.J. Walters, a land specialist for Coldwell Banker/Rick Canup Realtors Inc., said larger national lenders have constricted access to new capital, while local lenders are leery about making speculative loans.”
“‘It started slowing down about 18 months ago,’ he said.”
“Sweeney, the home builders association president, said local builders will continue to focus their efforts on custom-built, pre-sold homes until the market can correct itself.”
“‘I know we’re down, but we’re also coming off from an all-time (building) high,’ he said.”
The Temple Daily Telegraph. “Bell County residences continue to slide into foreclosure at a record pace. According to figures just released by Foreclosure Listing Service Inc., August 2008 is up 53 percent over August 2007.”
“‘Foreclosure posting activity has surged again in Bell County reaching its second highest (monthly) level on record. This marked the 10th consecutive month that Bell foreclosure postings have exceeded 100,’ said Bonnie Brown, foreclosure analyst at FLS.”
“Ms. Brown said 90 percent of the August foreclosed real estate - valued at $17 million - is for single-family homes, condominiums and townhomes.”
“Ms. Brown said Veterans Administration loans accounted for 45 percent of residential foreclosures this year. This is the single largest type of loan that defaulted for Bell County homes. For the year, VA foreclosures are up 71 percent over 2007.”
“Deborah Huddleston, a mortgage consultant who specializes in VA loans in Killeen, hears and sees a lot about foreclosures these days. She said VA loans fall into foreclosure for a couple of reasons: Deployment to the Middle East stresses families. VA loans that require no money down, which means they’re easier to walk away from.”
“‘If they have problems when they go overseas, it’s too easy to let them go,’ Ms. Huddleston said.”
“Add to that a large supply of new houses, which makes selling existing homes tough, and you’ve got a one-two combination that affects the market.”
“‘If you get a home in Killeen and sell it in two or three years you’re not going to make a profit,’ Ms. Huddleston said. ‘They (homeowners) can’t sell it and they’re going in the hole. I have people coming in for refinancing and they’re over 100 percent. People who are going to be in the area a short time really shouldn’t buy a home.’”
The American Statesman. “A few years ago, investors from California and other boom markets flocked to Central Texas, looking for homes to buy. Many bought several houses, hoping to cash in by renting out the homes. But now some of those investors are defaulting on their mortgages and becoming a growing factor in the rising foreclosure problem in Central Texas.”
“In the past two months alone, foreclosures of homes owned by out-of-state residents have surged in Travis County more than four times the rate of foreclosures overall since last year, based on figures from Rexreport.com.”
“Builders and real estate firms began advertising in California, Nevada and other markets where home prices had skyrocketed, touting the relative affordability of homes in Austin and their investment potential.”
“The firms even took groups of prospects on bus tours of Central Texas properties for sale. Maricel Ruzol, a Las Vegas registered nurse, took one of the tours in 2005 and bought an 1,800-square-foot ranch home in a Round Rock subdivision. She put 5 percent down and got two mortgages - both at subprime rates - for $151,600.”
“But it was harder than she had expected to find tenants, and the property taxes, much higher than in Nevada, shocked her. When a renter’s washing machine malfunctioned, causing water damage, Ruzol said, she could not afford the repairs. The bank foreclosed on the home this month.”
“Even after getting a second job, ‘I can’t afford to pay the mortgage anymore,’ she said. ‘Those houses were nice, and they were really cheap, but they didn’t explain the property taxes to us. And they are too much.’”
“The vast majority of out-of-state owners in Central Texas are from California, where surging real estate prices earlier in the decade allowed many people to borrow on the equity in their homes, based on Rexreport data.”
“‘A lot of Californians had so much equity in their homes, they were looking at other places to invest,’ said Gary Painter, research director at the Lusk Center for Real Estate at the University of Southern California. ‘It only makes sense that once the Phoenix and Vegas markets shot up so fast that the investors were looking at other places that had less price risk.’”
“‘They were not too concerned with what they were paying,’ said George Roddy Sr., president of Foreclosure Listing Service Inc., an Addison company that tracks foreclosures. ‘Their thought process was … they would hold the property for five to seven years and wait for appreciation.’”
“Some investors bought two, three, six or more properties in subdivisions or condominium complexes. And some of them have lost multiple properties to foreclosure.”
“Peter Sajovich, a real estate investor and broker/owner with Re/Max Austin Advantage, said many of the out of state buyers were naive. ‘They came in in 2005 and 2006 thinking our values were going to double like they did in California, and they borrowed every penny they could,’ Sajovich said.”
“‘They got greedy, took the easy money, and now they are paying the price for it,’ Sajovich said.”
“David Buttross, an Austin investor in foreclosed properties, said many of the out-of-state buyers joined real estate clubs or went to investment seminars where they were told they could make a quick buck.”
“‘They were bombarded with bogus information,’ Buttross said. ‘They paid more for the properties than they were worth. They don’t have the financial wherewithal. They are smart people, but they haven’t done it, and they didn’t know the pitfalls.’”
“Buttross predicts that foreclosures will keep rising as out-of-state investors leave the market. ‘You are going to see a full-fledged retreat,’ he said.”
‘I know we’re down, but we’re also coming off from an all-time (building) high,’ he said.’
You hear this all the time in Texas, we’ve had no bubble, but boy what a boom we just had.
I don’t see how Texans can deny a bubble market. Bus loads of Californians driving around buying multiple houses. Big national builders moving into Lubbock! The raw land is up by a huge percentage in just the last few years. That’s only 95%+ of the state.
Bus loads of Californians driving around buying multiple houses.
Giving excessive equity to the California Joe and Jane Six pack is like arming Monkeys with Hand Grenades. The collateral Damage is astounding if not predictable.
“Giving excessive equity to the California Joe and Jane Six pack is like arming Monkeys with Hand Grenades. The collateral Damage is astounding if not predictable.” — Same with teaching language to arrogant monkeys. The collateral damage is astounding if not predictable.
I get confused: what is the definition of the “California Joe and Jane Six pack”? I know they are considered monkeys, but could you further define it? Is it everyone in California, or just people making under a certain amount per year, or what? Does lack of a high salary make one a six-pack monkey, while a high salary leads to higher consciousness?
And what would be the term for many of the posters on this blog who talk about joe and jane six pack? Are they on a higher level of consciousness than the rest of humanity? . . . Jerking off mentally by imagining that most others are beneath one, and feeling so proud of one’s own abilities to earn/ handle money doesn’t seem like that high a level of consciousness . . . “Ah yes, the world would be so perfect if it weren’t for all those idiots out there . . . Why can’t everyone be just like perfect me, true gift to the USA and people in general?”
All my Exe’s foreclosures are in Texas
“Ron Bassinger, head of Ron Bassinger Inc., said his business remains steady but admits there are more skittish buyers in the market today than in the past - many unable to make clear decisions.”
Lots and lots AREN’T BUYING your BS and over-priced POS…that seems a pretty CLEAR decision to me
Oh boy!! I was hoping something would happen to these bastards. F’ing bastards! These are the people that drove speculation and destroyed west Austin (up to about 30-40 miles west of Mopac). If you did not live out west during the 90’s, you have no idea how fast things changed out there. You could drive out on 2222 out to 620 and literally watch developments rise up mile-by-mile. It changed so much that you couldn’t imagine the area in its pristine state - it looked as though these neighborhoods had been built for thousands of years and maintained well - no evidence that it had once been unoccupied land. And oh boy, when the tech bust came, quite a few people got washed out. It was funny that after 2002-2003, I noticed that traffic on major roads like I-35, Mopac, 183, and 360 had dropped quite a bit that I could notice it moving faster during rush hour.
And these F’ing bastards that came in were the neuvo riche people with their SUV’s, fancy houses, money blowing everywhere. They don’t give a damn about you and are rude MFs. They won’t say hi in the grocery aisles in Whole Foods Market, not even “Excuse me” to reach across and get something off the shelf. That is why, when I was given the opportunity to play in a band in Houston, I left without looking back and shedding any tears in 2004. I hope these people fry when the housing bust hits bottom. We got a long way to go…
(holds up the horns in avenged fashion)
“Won’t say hi in the grocery aisles in WFM”.
Hmm. Are there really so few people in Whole Foods that it warrants saying “hi” to everybody you encounter? At what point is the cut-off for saying “hi” vs. keeping to yourself and finishing what you came to do?
I don’t think it’s realistic to expect to acknowledge your presence in a town with population over 100.
When you’re out having fun, say, hiking on a trail or paddling, sure, a courtsey nod to acknowledge like-mindness is nice. But to everybody, doing everyday thing? Gets old real fast.
Is that like a “Shotgun Weeding”?
“Housing made forward progress with a shotgun approach for years, but it’s become a ground game in Oklahoma City, with buyers and sellers staring one another down across a line of scrimmage called a contract. Some buyers don’t get it, Realtors said. ‘They offer silly amounts of money,’ said Jim McWhirter, who owns Gemini Builders and Gemini Realtors in Choctaw.”
These people live for football. It even works its way into RE articles.
Is the only way of making people understand the nitty griddy, vis a vis football metaphors?
You have that right Ben, BOOMER SOONER!!! I can’t wait till football season starts again!!
Some buyers don’t get it, Realtors said. ‘They offer silly amounts of money,’ said Jim McWhirter, who owns Gemini Builders and Gemini Realtors in Choctaw.”
“McWhirter, president of the Central Oklahoma Home Builders Association, said he doesn’t always take such insults in stride. One buyer ‘offered me $50,000 less than what we were asking. I countered back with $5,000 more than I was asking,’ he said.
I would counter McWhirter back with $100,000 less than he was asking.
Keep the popcorn popping
Red Baron
Some buyers don’t get it, Realtors said. ‘They offer silly amounts of money,’ said Jim McWhirter, who owns Gemini Builders and Gemini Realtors in Choctaw.”
This is infuriating. The offer wouldn’t have been so “silly” back in 1999 or 2000, which is (more or less) where prices are headed anyway. Get over it, Jim.
All that means is that “Jim’s” houses will be purchased from the bank or through a soon to be enacted RTC. No big deal jim, see you in the soup line.
Yeah, Jim never did say whether he sold the house or not, and for how much.
Goodnight from denial island, John-Boy
“John Walton, president of Century 21/John Walton Realtors characterized the market as stable. ‘I’ve been at this 33 years. I’ve seen it go up and down. Sometimes you have to take the sweet with the sour. I’ve said we live on an island out here,’ he said.”
“John Walton, president of Century 21/John Walton Realtors characterized the market as stable. ‘I’ve been at this 33 years. I’ve seen it go up and down. Sometimes you have to take the sweet with the sour. I’ve said we live on an island out here,’ he said.”
By that definition, there must be “islands” all across west Texas. How many will get swamped by the national tsunami?
What a place, Lubbock, and in a “dry” county. The highway heading south out of the county looks like a mini Vegas strip as it enters the next county - lined with liquor stores.
““Even after getting a second job, ‘I can’t afford to pay the mortgage anymore,’ she said. ‘Those houses were nice, and they were really cheap, but they didn’t explain the property taxes to us. And they are too much.’””
Property taxes were too confusing? Property taxes???
Two minutes on Zillow and you can find out the previous year’s tax bills for almost any property in the country. 10 minutes on the county’s website you can confirm that and often view the actual tax bill. 15-30 minutes of online research will leave you with a pretty good understanding of what the rates are as well as how assessments are carried out.
It’s not ****ing rocket science.
If you are not willing to spend the 30-45 minutes to properly understand the tax liabilities of a several hundred thousand dollar investment, then you simply deserve to lose the investment.
The stupidity and laziness of so many people still astounds me…
Last month a friend bought a place. On the morning of his closing he still didn’t know what the taxes were or whether the current owner was caught up on his payments.
Maybe it’s different in other locales, but in my neck of the woods, the MLS listings have always had atrociously out of date tax info on them. I’ve been watching them for over ten years in my market - and it hasn’t changed - even though the official records are readily accessed on the web.
Geez, you think for 6% the agents could at least provide accurate listings.
What happens if the seller isn’t current on the taxes? Surely that onus doesn’t fall to the buyer.
That’s what the title check (and insurance) is for. The buyer is appraised of any outstanding liens prior to closing. And if any are missed, its the title insurance company’s responsibility if they declared it a clean title.
EJ -
Could part of the problem with out of date tax info be cause by IL being perpetually a year in arrears for property taxes?
Anyway….
Where I used to live in northern Illinois I noticed quite a few listings in my community that had 1/2 of my property taxes.
After a quick check I discovered the listings only had the first installment payment listed as the whole annual property tax amount.
When I questioned agents, they always replied “this is what the seller told me.”
Gee, a real professional who knows the area would certainly know the amount was not quite right. Especially if I, after watching the county for only a year, could figure it out. Not to mention the many identical models with twice the property taxes
Uh, you might want to look at real estate taxes here in Chicago, which are calculated as far as I can tell using a combination of Black Magic, Phase of the Moon, and Las Vegas slot machines. (I can’t even find an explanation of how the numbers are supposedly calculated.) I’m working off the last year’s tax numbers and adding 10%, but won’t know anything official until September. (We were supposed to get half-year numbers back in March, but no one managed to get anything out by any deadlines….) Talk about magical mystery numbers!
Grumpy,
Okay, point taken - I only lived in Cook County for a few years.
I remember I had a problem with property taxes being paid twice and had to work to work through Countrywide (they had bought my mortgage) to get it refunded.
It was funny listening to the Countrywide person on the phone groan when I mentioned Cook County, Illinois.
They didn’t have to do any research. Every MLS listing I’ve ever seen details the property taxes.
Yes, the MLS lists the taxes, but that’s no guarantee the figures are accurate. When I bought a place in Charlotte in 1996, the tax rate listed was for 1990.
So, I sojourned to the Mecklenberg County tax assessor’s office, where I learned what the current tax rate was. The twains did not meet.
I did buy the place, knowing what my real property tax would be.
knowing what my real property tax would be ??
But do you know what they will be next year and thereafter ?? Thats why we passed prop. #13…
It’s harder than you suggest to plan property taxes.
My property taxes were about 30% higher than the previous owners after I bought in 2001, mostly because 2 of the 3 taxing authority valuations went up substantially. Since I had no previous homestead to transfer, there was no cap on valuation increases that year. After we had the homestead exemption, they went up the 10% limit for 2 or 3 years then leveled off.
The orbital mechanics branch of rocket science is pretty easy by comparison. The laws of nature are not matters of opinion, taken as mere piratical “guidelines,” like taxes apparently are.
“One buyer ‘offered me $50,000 less than what we were asking. I countered back with $5,000 more than I was asking”
I’d love to be the guy that tears up a down payment check in front of this guy and gets up and leaves after tossing the confetti on his desk.
A better metaphor for the standoff between buyers and sellers than the “line of scrimmage” would be a “war of attrition.” I can’t speak for all prospective buyers, but I am willing to rent forever rather than paying too much for an overvalued POS that nobody else is willing or able to buy. So far as I am concerned, sellers can price themselves out of the market forever.
As I said somewhere else on this site, I hope that those on this board who own outright homes valued from $400K on up are saving cash like mad. Better have some liquidity, guys and girls. With average household income resting around $50K, wages stagnant and no easy credit, just who are you going to sell your expensive pads to 10-20 years from now?
And that doesn’t even take massive tax increases into account to pay for your Medicare and similar social welfare crap.
Everyone born after 1960 will be paying out the ass….either covering your ass (with the result of having no money left to buy your wildly over-priced properties) - or paying out of pocket their own pocket (rather than stealing it out of someone else’s pocket via the government) to pay for retirement, medical care, etc.
Those of you on this board bragging about owning $400K properties outright (i.e., no mortgage) may want to seriously check your thinking on that. Yes, of course it’s great to have paid off your mortgage - but will you ever be able to get your money out of the property you own? Are you going to pass along your abode to your kids, who the government will massively soak for taxes?
Like I’ve said several times before, your Demographic Gravy Train is over. Better adjust your thinking.
Article doesn’t say whether the guy has since sold the property.
But I’m sure that everyone is just dying to live in OKLAHOMA(!?!), so it should work great for him.
“But I’m sure that everyone is just dying to live in OKLAHOMA(!?!),”
“Living” in Oklahoma is dying.
There are some good people there, and they’ll be the first to admit the lack of amenities. Just the other day I was waiting out the rain downtown and a couple of girls were there. They said they had just moved from Oklahoma to live with relatives in Showlow. I mentioned Showlow is pretty country but there isn’t a lot to do out there. They replied, ‘we’re used to making our own fun!’ Nice looking girls, too.
“They replied, ‘we’re used to making our own fun!’”
That kind of upbeat attitude could make up for a whole lot of nothing to do.
There are some very decent people there and parts of the state are scenic in their own way, the Arbuckle Mountains on the way to Dallas, the Wichita Mountains in the southwest and some areas in the northwest part of the state.
I wasn’t impressed by a sports bar across from the OU football stadium shutting down early on a Halloween on a Friday night, nor by my first exposure to the theo-fascist wing of the Republican Party. Oklahoma was easily the worst place I’ve lived and not a place I’d want to move back. Parts of Texas always looked really good in comparison.
Oh, yes—I’ve noticed that ‘nice looking’ girls can ALWAYS find something fun to do, in or out of Oklahoma, haw haw haw.
Seriously, though, is there really an Oklahoma? I thought it was pretend, like unicorns and Eskimos.
‘….nor by my first exposure to the theo-fascist wing of the Republican Party.’
Oooh. OoohOooh, SDgreg, let me be the first one to give you an extremely valuable travel tip, okay?
Don’t. Ever. Go. To. Utarr.
I belive this is a Housing Bubble Blog?
I don’t understand the Oklahoma bashing? I would suggest climbing down from your ivory towers guilded with gold.
Yes Olympiagal, there is an Oklahoma. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. And they sing as they go about, just like in the play.
‘Yes Olympiagal, there is an Oklahoma. I’ve seen it with my own eyes. And they sing as they go about, just like in the play.’
Thanks, Ben. Good to know.
“…they sing as they go about, just like in the play.”
Does Aido Annie really live there?
“I belive this is a Housing Bubble Blog?
I don’t understand the Oklahoma bashing? I would suggest climbing down from your ivory towers guilded with gold.”
…personal foul, un-sportsman like conduct, SDGreg and Ok_Land_Lord, off-setting penalities, repeat first down…
Sorry, just wanted to keep with the football analogies so all those Oklahomans can follow along at home
I’ve never been to Oklahoma, but live vicariously through stereotypes of it.
……and yes, there are Eskimos and an Oklahoma, even Eskimos in Oklahoma. Eskimo Joe’s to be specific…..if there are any OSU fans out there…….seen it with me oun i’s.
Truth be told, i once spotted an Eskimo Joe’s T shirt in SE asia (worn by a local looking person, not an anglo looking tourist). Some bits of Americana travel far and wide.
Haha, many years ago I had my tech guy create a software package (now on the web, actually) that says “Our rates for re-contracting” which we gave to customers who let us go because we were too expensive. That clock keeps going up, ad infinitum, if we are let go but they want us back (note: almost 80% of those who fired us called us back in 3 months when they realized the discount contractors were imbeciles).
We still have that site up, and I still issue people a link. When they call, and call they do, I just re-email it to them and say “If that rate sounds good, just call in and accept it.” They usually call back and say “Why is it going up?” My reply: “Because you’re wasting my time. Oh, it’s gone up some more.”
Last year I had a guy balk at $90 an hour (40 hours commitment monthly with a 50% discount for prepaid contract work with no net terms and no COD even). Our competition varied between $60 and $180. He hired us, used us for 3-4 months and then fired us because his brother’s kid did it better. So I issued the count-up clock to him, and about 6 months into it the rate went from $180 (pre-discount) to $213 per hour. He freaked and said I was being outrageous, to which I told him: “Well, you also lost the 50% discount. And we still require you to pay up front because you have a history of being a deadbeat payer.”
Today we’re working for him at $219 per hour, thanks to him waiting a week or two to hire us on. And he’s getting his dollar’s worth.
So to make this long story short, I would love to have a “negotiation clock” that counts down my initial offer, and have it count-down with every minute they dilly-dally. Imagine walking into a car dealer, looking over a particular model at $23,000, typing in $19,200 into the clock, putting it on the manager’s desk and the minute they say “Let us think about it” you hit the “GO!” button.
$19,200 - $19,100 - $19,000 (maybe over 5 minutes)
Half hour later it’s at $18,300.
Hour later its at $17,500.
No, don’t think about it. You know your bottom line. You know my price. Take it, or watch the clock go to zero.
I’d sell them next to the St. Joseph statues.
Adam - for this and other stories I owe you a drink or 4. I am back in Chicago early next month. Please convene another Chicago HBB meeting.
FYI,
Home prices in Oklahoma did not see the price increases that other parts of the Nation have seen. Unless the house was overly priced, then it would not make sense for a purchaser to get a large discount.
The properties that I own have only increased ~ 50% in 7 years. You can’t treat all markets the same, that is not to say that there are not some deals or that some people think they can find some low lying fruit.
Ah, I see. “It’s different there.”
Real estate markets may be local, but financing is global. Everywhere is headed for a major (over)correction, even places that didn’t see as much a runup.
BTW, the seller in question was a developer, I believe. As a matter of simple microeconomics, even if there was minimal increase in price via artificial demand (ie, loose lending, speculators, etc.) if there was excess supply built then future prices will decline. How much new housing has gone up in the last 5-8 years relative to population?
It is different there. There wasn’t an extreme run up in prices recently. I haven’t looked at the data but Oklahoma probably wasn’t overbuilt recently. Oklahoma was brutalized more than most of the US in the energy crash of the 1980s when it was overbuilt. Energy has started booming again and it may get overbuilt, but the timing of the current energy boom with the global credit crunch could help prevent that. With the current energy situation, jobs are plentiful. That could support home prices that did not run up relative to other places. If it wasn’t for the credit situation, places like Oklahoma could be seeing significant price increases. There is no way an energy based economy is going to be the same as tourism and construction based economies like most boom areas.
“Ron Bassinger, head of Ron Bassinger Inc., said his business remains steady but admits there are more skittish buyers in the market today than in the past - many unable to make clear decisions.”
So obviously with this crowd the only “clear decision” is the decision to buy.
Should I be PO’ed at constantly being referred to as “skittish”? Gee, why not call buyers “extrememly patient”? I guess it makes no difference, as I don’t think of myself as a “buyer” anymore so much as a “future buyer”.
I am actually trying to buy a home in CA. Before you all laugh, note the offer I am making. The home is in a very nice gated community, with special amenities( granite ha ha), and was on the market for 1.1 mil. The folks are getting divorced. The offer is 650k cash. They have two days to respond an if they counter we will counter with a lower offer (ala that realtor, but on the buyer’s end).
oughta be fun
Whereabouts in CA?
I love to hear about sword swallowers on Sundays…
Not to leave out Abilene:
‘Abilene’s real estate market is “not plagued by bubbles,” said John Hill, an associate professor of economics at Hardin-Simmons University and the owner of Hill Properties. “There’s not that kind of speculation locally. That’s just not been the nature of real estate here. We haven’t had the foreclosures here that you’ve seen around the country.’
‘Indeed, foreclosures in Taylor County were up some in April and May from 2007, but Chief Appraiser Richard Petree said it is too early to tell if a trend exists. ‘There’s no question it’s (real estate) slowing down some here, but it’s nothing like it is in other parts of the country,” said Petree.’
‘The total number of listings in Abilene reached 1,000 in June, the highest since April 1990, according to data from the Texas Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University.’
1990, well that would be the tail end of the last bust. Where have we seen that trend before?
Abilene’s market isn’t plagued by bubbles, it’s plagued by a Bubble(tm). They don’t tend to go away and reform, they just shift air around. If the pressure outside the bubble is low, the bubble grows. If the pressure outside the bubble is high, the bubble shrinks. Same amount of air can make it big or small.
My sister lived in Abilene for 10 years. Moved a few years ago. You could buy a lot for $3k and a decent house for 80k or so. Or a really nice one for $130k or so. I was looking at investing out there, but couldn’t figure out why property there would ever go up. All they have is an air force base and a few universities. Good thing I didn’t since she moved to New York.
We’ll all be in Flagstaff next week, maybe we’ll run into Ben.
I have to admit, I’ve never heard of Hardin-Simmons University.
“Ms. Brown said Veterans Administration loans accounted for 45 percent of residential foreclosures this year. This is the single largest type of loan that defaulted for Bell County homes. For the year, VA foreclosures are up 71 percent over 2007.”
A lot of military families, especially the young enlisted guys who don’t always exercise sound judgement in either their financial affairs or choice of spouse, dissolve given the combined stresses of deployment and financial irresponsibility. While many or most of the military wives are angels, a sizeable percentage - primarily the junior enlisted guys’ wives - are not the most wholesome or intelligent choices for a mate. [Be advised: Big V will twist this observation, validated by several years of military service when I was a pup, to state that a) I hate all women; and b) I advocate/practice beating & abusing same. Both statements couldn't be further from the truth, but Big V has never let truth or reality interfere with her warped rants in here. She has used my posts out of context and fabricated "quotes" I've never said to suit her strange purposes, and stalks me on this board out of some disturbing obsession. If we lived in the same state I'd probably put a restraining order on her.] While GI hubby is deployed, wifey is frequently getting into all sorts of misadventures with their finances, not infrequently maxing out credit cards and draining his bank accounts while engaging in dalliances with other guys. Again, this is NOT a blanket indictment of military wives, most of whom do not engage in this sort of behavior - but a sizeable number do, as any guy who has ever served in the military can attest [one reason why I stayed single until after I'd left the military].
Not surprisingly, when these typically junior enlisted troops come home from deployment, their credit is ruined and their home life is in shambles. As the couple or family falls apart, they often slip into bankrupcy or foreclosure as they walk away from their obligations, financial and moral. Alternatively, a lot of guys (and deployed females, to be fair) who have been living in austere environments and facing daily peril, go on spending binges, buying SUVs, motorcycles, etc., that put them deep into debt. Another reminder of the financial snares they often fall into (walk into, more like) are the pawn shops, strip joints, tatoo parlors, payday loan places, and other sleazy establishments that proliferate around all military bases to separate GIs from their money.
In short, I’m not surprised the foreclosure rate for VA loans is so high, as, unfortunately, the financial and family foundations of too many of our troops and veterans are build on sand rather than solid ground.
I have posted about speculators moving into Temple. For those unfamiliar with the place, it caught a lot of rolling infestors inching north from Austin.
Right on with your observations. Unforteunately, there are some of us being foreign military spouses who believed every word from these American heroes and the bright picture they painted of this glorious life ahead, and then came to a rude awakening what they got themselves into, after stepping on American soil. The point I make here is that there are a lot of these young men who had better stayed single and eat the fruit of their irresponsible lifestyle without destroying other peoples lives.
Barbara, I couldn’t agree more. I saw first-hand how a lot of American military people deployed overseas were the worst possible representatives of their country. I also saw how many married servicemen [and women] screwed around every chance they got when they were stationed abroad, especially in Korea or the Phillipines. Pregnancy of deployed female personnel - many of them married to someone back in the States - is one of the dirty little secrets of today’s kinder, gentler, feminized military. While I am strongly pro-military, I concede the reality that we have an awful lot of low-lifes in uniform, many of whom joined the military because they couldn’t hack it in civilian life.
Another reason for high default on the VA loans is the reason that most Vets use them….NO DOWN PAYMENT…, i.e. they don’t have much skin in the game other than the fees they paid for the loan.
I’m a vet, but have never used the VA loan because the fees are too high. Much better terms going with a conforming loan with a real down payment.
‘The total number of listings in Abilene reached 1,000 in June, the highest since April 1990, according to data from the Texas Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University.’
Proportional to population, that’s a greater number of listings than San Diego County. No bubble in Abilene. Just a bunch of people who all decided to sell at the same time for no particular reason.
But they do have Harlow’s Smokehouse, a place I’ll be sure to hit if I’m ever in Abilene again.
In Sarasota the locals are hoping and praying that all those northeners will be their salvation
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080727/ARTICLE/807270332/2055&title=Home_sales_await_boost_from_North
I dont understand why someone would be insulted by a low offer. I would love to get any offer for a house I am trying to sell, just to get the ball rolling.
Getting an offer below the amount you owe can make you feel like an idiot. It’s about time idiots were made to feel like idiots.
A seller who’s wishing price is based on emotion is vulnerable to a wide range of emotions.
I have posted about speculators moving into Temple. For those unfamiliar with the place, it caught a lot of rolling infestors inching north from Austin.
Heh….
Temple? Temple?
Temple makes Waco look good by comparison. Temple is the sort of place that celebrates the opening of an Applebee’s as the coming of haute cuisine.
Ah yes, Temple. Lived there for almost 2 years. The place was a paradise compared to nearby Killeen, where I lived for 2 years prior to that. Lots of medical people in Temple thanks the large hospitals. But that’s about it.
And Applebee’s is HUGE!!!
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-07-27 09:33:43
‘….nor by my first exposure to the theo-fascist wing of the Republican Party.’
I can see the Neo-Nazi (that is National Socialist Workers Party for those of you in the religious left) wing of the demoKrat partie have their politically correct pantiews in a wad.
Let me start by saying “today is a good day”. Why you ask? Well, back in August of 05 I went to an open house (house has been on the market since at least Jan. of 05). The house is about 1700 sq ft on 1.44 acre with a large 1500 sq ft man cave. The house was ok, nothing special, none of that fabulous granite or anything just a house. But the house fits our needs (actually wants). Anyway said house was listed at $425,000.00, we offered $100,000 less, and of course seller came back at $420,000 and end of story.
As time has gone by we have on occasion make informal offers never with any success. In April of 07 we made a formal offer of $282,000 seller’s price now being I think 399,000. and of course we were again denied. Then in April of 08, we made our $282,000 offer again and seller came back with $380,000.
Well a couple a months ago the sellers Realtor called and asked if we would pay $349,000. said “no thanks”. Well today is good because this house is now listed (after almost 3 years) for $324,900. a whooping 100.00 less than our original offer. Have not heard for the Realtor yet, what do you think I should offer when she calls? (and she will call). For those who want a peak it is MLS #60226
It is soooooooo good to be a renter. And though I am mostly a lurker, here daily to get my fix. I absolutely love this site; it has brought sanity to me in this insane world.
Thank you sooooooo much Ben.
Julie
is that on Hopi? Zillow says it’s “recently sold”.. 300K
imo, buying now means ultimately taking a loss.. I don’t think the market in general is currently pricing anywhere near as low as tomorrow’s price. There may be a few select properties and conditions where such a deal is available.. you’d need to be lucky to find one that also fits your criteria.
But it depends on one’s situation. We only live so long and an older person waiting 3 or 4 years for prices to finally bottom out may not be the best use of time.. quality of life is a factor that one can’t put a dollar amount on. Of course, underlying everything else is the assumption today’s buyer can easily afford the property, even if some personal economic disaster, like job loss, strikes.
No, it’s on Turnbull in Crescent City, Ca. 95531. I really don’t think I going to buy for another 2 to 3 years. I think the reason this property has held or interest is the neighborhood that it is in. But as each day passes my interest in buying any property becomes less and less.
But I could have some fun with this seller, like make her promise to feed the bears or something if we decide to by.
julie
Julie;..I just had a nice dinner at the Indian Casino in Trinidad…
On vacation?
Trinidad is a very nice little seaside town, hope you enjoy the visit.
Julie
Again, very few people are taking into account the massive costs heading down the pike 10-15 years from now. Today’s rise in gas prices, food, etc., are going to look miniscule in comparison to your social welfare bills coming due 10 years from now.
A lot of people (like 75 percent of the population - including many lawyers, doctors, tech geeks now making $200K + annually) are going to have to grapple with “personal economic disaster”. People are going to get creamed. 2008 will be among the good old days.
I’d offer 245K and mention you are in no hurry if the sellers still enjoy paying the taxes and upkeep.
Something that I didn’t mention before is that the seller also owns the property next door to this one and is trying to sell it MLS#60655. She had thought that it had sold and packed up and moved to Tennessee about a year ago. I believe that both homes are paid in full but she continues to come back here to manage the up keep of both properties.
This seller had multiple offers on both of these properties but refused to take anything less then asking price. Now the properties have sat on the market for so long I think most buyers feel there must be something wrong with them.
I the beginning we offered to lease to own the property for up to two years so that she could sell her other property and not be effected by the comps of the sell of this one. But she had no doubt that she could get full price for both.
Times they are a changing.
Julie
A co-worker of mine sounds like your seller during the last bust.
They listed at 100% expected sale price, turned down an offer at 85%. A year later they finally sold at 75% and regretted their earlier foolishness. His advice: Don’t follow a falling market down, LEAD IT.
They’ll only collect $305,406 after the Realtor commission. If it sells.
Is it really possible a California investor could buy an Austin area home and not know the property tax bill?
Many people outside of Texas, non-real estate folks, know Texas property taxes are extremely high. Let’s see, no state income tax and a $1000 property tax bill on a $200,000 house WOULD make the Texas heat much more bearable.