You’re Probably Better Off Renting In Florida
WPTV reports from Florida. “The ‘For Rent’ sign is hanging in more and more places these days, as homeowners open their doors to strangers to help close their budget gaps. ‘Everything’s here. Ready to move in and very comfortable,’ said homeowner Gary Friedman. He’s now turning his guest room into a rental. Friedman is offering everything, right down to linen sheets. ‘Were ready to have somebody move in here and go to sleep immediately,’ said Friedman jokingly. ‘Be comfortable.’”
“He and his partner of 27 years are looking to boost they’re monthly income by $650. They’ve been watching as their Lake Worth home struggles to sell, at a time when money is tight.”
“‘I think within hours of us purchasing this house, everybody stopped buying houses,’ said Friedman. ‘Everybody said ‘Thats it.’”
The Associated Press. “New figures out Tuesday showed home prices fell by a record 15.8 percent in May from a year ago. In fact, nine cities posted record declines, including Miami near where Sharon McKenney, 55, and her husband are trying to sell their four-bedroom, waterfront home.”
“They were asking $550,000 for their home in Palmetto Bay, a bargain, McKenney thought, compared to neighboring properties listed around $625,000. But there have been no offers, so they cut the price to $545,000.”
“‘I’m frustrated, however I still feel like it’s priced very well, and I don’t see myself lowering it,’ McKenney said. ‘The thing of it is, there’s so many (homes) on the market, people keep thinking, if they keep looking they’ll find something better, something cheaper.’”
The News Press. “The housing bill signed by President Bush on Wednesday won’t help Southwest Florida homeowners hit hardest by the economy. ‘This is one of those feel-good government intervention programs with only a marginal real impact,’ said said Charles Costello, a mortgage broker in Fort Myers.”
“The new loans do have strings, including required mortgage insurance and stipulations against taking home equity loans.”
“‘For five years you’re allowed no home equity loans, and which average family doesn’t need a home equity loan for liquidity?’ said Fort Myers-based bankruptcy attorney Charles Phoenix. Regulations will also have to deal with the issue of existing home equity lines, he said.”
“In addition, any homeowner in the program who sells his home within five years must share any profit with the FHA based on a sliding scale. ‘What’s the point of owning your own home when you can’t benefit from the profit? You’re probably better off renting,’ Phoenix said.”
“Fort Myers resident John Lee is baffled his city property taxes will not drop as much as he had expected. ‘It doesn’t seem like that much of a decrease considering the fact that our property values have declined a lot more than that,’ said Lee.”
“The average resident will end up paying the city about the same as last year. ‘My feeling is they’re going to get you one way or the other,’ said Lee, who bought his house in 2005.”
The Naples News. “David Farmer, assistant chair of ULI Southwest Florida and principal of Keystone Development Advisors, LLC, said a significant amount of the sales he has seen in recent months are investors buying several properties at once.”
“Farmer emphasized just how low prices have dropped. A three-bedroom house in Golden Gate Estates, with two bathrooms and a two-car garage, recently sold for $74,000, he said.”
“‘You could not even begin to build that house for three times that, but yet it sold,’ he said. ‘That’s going to continue on.’”
The St Petersburg Times. “Deeply in hock to banks in the housing downturn, Tampa’s Smith Family Homes has gone out of business, ending a 10-year run for a family partnership that raised rooftops in some of the region’s premier communities.”
“Smith Family was stuck holding lots and finished homes worth less on the market than was owed to the bank, said Scott Stichter, the company’s bankruptcy lawyer. A last-minute deal with an investor to infuse more cash into the business fizzled.”
“Some recent home buyers are receiving certified letters from contractors unpaid by Smith. They include Dominic DeQuarto, who closed on a Smith home on April 29 in Pasco County’s Grey Hawk neighborhood. Work interruptions plagued the project, DeQuarto said, and now he’s getting lien notices from various carpet installers, concrete guys and stucco contractors.”
“‘This was the most stressful process for building a home ever,’ DeQuarto said.”
“In its quest for financial health, the Tampa Bay area home building industry is grappling with a giant scab on the landscape: 31,900 vacant home sites waiting for buyers.”
“New-home closings in the region fell 42.6 percent this spring vs. the same time last year. But that’s nothing compared to the glut of vacant lots, enough home sites to last builders 51/2 years at current sales rates.”
“Hillsborough County’s supply is 49.6 months, or more than four years. Pasco and Pinellas counties have nearly five-year supplies. And Hernando County’s lot supply is 136 months, or 11 years.”
“It gets worse: Citrus County has a 508-month supply. At current sales, it would take 42 years to burn off all its finished home sites. Citrus’ new-home market has fallen off a cliff, with only 95 homes starts in the past year amid a surplus of 4,018 developed home sites.”
“In a glimmer of good news on the lot front, developers have largely ceased paving former cow pastures, orange groves and forests. ‘Hillsborough finally stopped adding lots this quarter,’ said Tony Polito, who compiled the new-home report. ‘The other counties stopped adding lots months before that.’”
“Up and down State Road 54, from Trinity to Wesley Chapel, the economic trend becomes evident: For lease. For sale. For lease. For sale. Those signs are not for houses. They are for office space.”
“‘There’s a lot of office space out there,’ said Matt Shaw of Prudential Commercial Real Estate. ‘It’s a tough time to be a landlord.’”
“Investors with plenty of money had seen the housing boom and figured they could turn a profit with professional office buildings to support the residential growth. ‘We’re in a position we’re in now because money was so easy to get,’ said Johnny Wild, owner of Wild Realty & Investment. ‘At a time, it was a frenzy.’”
“But millions more square feet of office space are in the project pipeline. And even some real estate agents, who tend to emphasize the upside of building trends, say they are surprised by how much office space continues to come on line.”
“‘I can’t believe they’re still building,’ Shaw said.”
From TC Palm. “Residential builders in the largest and most populous county of the Treasure Coast slowed the pace of new home construction to match the downturn of demand. Metrostudy found that construction began on only 60 single-family homes in St. Lucie County, down from 95 in the first quarter.”
“A total of 286 units were under construction at the end of the quarter, the lowest number since the second quarter of 2001. There were 918 finished vacant units in the county at the end of the second quarter versus the end of the first quarter.”
“Jack McCabe, CEO of McCabe Research and Consulting, said builders in St. Lucie County have cut back because of exorbitant levels of inventory. ‘It makes no sense for them to build on a speculative basis,’ McCabe said. ‘Building like they did in the boom years is a recipe for disaster.’”
“‘The low-end and the high-end homes are doing OK. It’s the middle-priced homes that are really getting murdered,’ said Don Santos, past president of the Treasure Coast Builders. ‘The problem now is finding creditworthy buyers willing to buy new construction.’”
“The Indian River Realtors Association reported 137 existing single-family homes sold in June, down from 154 in June 2007. At the same time, the median sales price of those homes was $160,000 in June, down from $255,000 in June 2007. The median sales price for condominiums fell from $287,500 to $152,000 year to year.”
The Orlando Sentinel. “An Orlando real estate agent arrested this week has been charged with mortgage fraud and grand theft. Orange County Sheriff’s detectives said Garry S. Martin, 35, forged signatures on various documents and wired home-sale proceeds to bank accounts that he controlled. Investigators said the fraudulent sales in 2006 involved one sale that netted $172,804 and another one that totaled $253,484.”
“Martin, a licensed real estate broker, was taken into custody at his office on Monday and booked into the Orange County Jail.”
The News Journal. “More than two dozen potential condominium owners have filed lawsuits in circuit court against one of the area’s newest developments — Halifax Landing on South Ridgewood Avenue in South Daytona — and more may be coming.”
“The 26 complaints, filed since mid-May, allege the developer significantly changed the project between the time units were reserved and contracts signed in 2005 and 2006, and when units were recently finished and buyers asked to close. Buyers want out of the contracts and deposits refunded. The first two units were closed earlier this month for $420,532 and $547,000.”
“‘The lawsuits are not unique to Halifax Landing. It’s happening all over the state since the market fell,’ said Scott Cichon, representing Halifax Landing. ‘The investors, flippers and speculators bought several years ago to make a profit reselling them. Now, they want to shift that risk back onto the developers. But they signed contracts and are not willing to take their lumps like everyone else.’”
“The contracts are void, however, because the changes are ‘material’ and ‘adversely impact’ the buyers, two legal standards required to break a condo purchase contract, said attorney Ben Zaeri, representing 10 clients suing Halifax Marina.”
“‘When you buy a Mercedes, you don’t want an Escort,’ Zaeri said. ‘It’s no surprise the real estate market has tanked, but that is not the motivating factor. My clients, for the most part, wanted to move in and get use of the property.’”
The Dunfermline Press. “Steven Pagdin (26) and his wife Alana (27) put their semi-detached house on the market over a month ago but have not had any viewers for the property, which is available for offers over £115,000.”
“Steven has even thrown his car into the deal - a three-year-old Mazda6 - in an attempt to sell the house by September, when he is due to start his new job in Panama City, Florida.”
“A designer in the oil and gas industry who currently works for Oceaneering Multiflex in Rosyth, Steven has secured a job with a sister company in America. ‘But,’ he said, ‘unless I sell my house, we can’t go. We have already agreed to go over to Florida to live. We have got our visas and everything else. It’s just a case of hoping the move isn’t going to be scuppered because we can’t sell the house.’”
“Last week, the Press reported on the major impact that the credit crunch and housing market slump are now having on home construction and sales in West Fife, with job losses in the building trade already reported.”
“Steven, of Birrell Drive, wondered, ‘Is the credit crunch affecting the way people are thinking? Are they thinking that the housing prices are going to crash? I don’t know. It’s usually quite a popular estate but for some reason the houses round here just aren’t selling.’”
“‘I suppose you would have to eventually lower the price but there’s got to be a cut-off. If you’re having to knock off too much it might not be worth going over (to America) in the first place,’ he said.”
“The couple, who were due their second child on Tuesday, bought the house five years ago when the market was more buoyant and houses were snapped up within a matter of days. Steven explained, ‘We went to view the house on the Friday night, put an offer in on the Monday and the house was sold on the Tuesday.’”
“‘Now it seems to be that people are wary of buying a house in case the value comes down the next month and they lose £10,000 on the house they’ve just bought,’ Steve said.”
“Alana added, ‘We’re a bit stressed out about it. They want us over in America as soon as possible.’”
‘unless I sell my house, we can’t go. We have already agreed to go over to Florida to live. We have got our visas and everything else. It’s just a case of hoping the move isn’t going to be scuppered because we can’t sell the house’
Reading these stories out of Florida and elsewhere this morning reminded me of the flak I got from trolls and emails in 2005-06. They would complain that I ignored positive aspects of the markets in the articles and wasn’t being ‘objective.’ But if I’m trying to warn people, ‘positive’ things are irrelevant. It’s sort of like going up to a burning house and telling the occupants, ‘your roof’s on fire, but interest rates are really favorable and there are good schools down the street.’
The same kind of flak that Michael Fink was getting over at the Palm Beach Post board into 2007. Now all the cheerleaders there have moved on to other interests…for the most part.
Ben ..so funny the line about “your roof’s on fire, but…..” I got to remember that one . But you have seen it all in all these years you have had this blog .It’s interesting how many of the predictions are coming true along with more unpredictable events .The other day I saw a big picture of a popcorn and I was half tempted to buy it in memory of the popcorn eaters watching the ongoing events in the housing market .
LOL. Glad you noticed Andy. Funny how the trolls are still there (from time to time) and still living in a totally false reality. Prices are down 20-40% in our area, and yet, they still spout the ol’crapola lines.
“‘For five years you’re allowed no home equity loans, and which average family doesn’t need a home equity loan for liquidity?’ said Fort Myers-based bankruptcy attorney Charles Phoenix. Regulations will also have to deal with the issue of existing home equity lines, he said.”
Ugh.. Yeah, so basically, this guy is saying:
“Who would buy a home for these prices when you won’t be able to make it into a 2nd income for the rest of your life?!?”.
Hmm.. Well, I don’t need liquidity through my HELOC, in fact, HELOC was really only there (for most people) to help with home improvements. Only during the boom did the HELOC become “another form of liquidity” to pay off CC bills and to live above your means.
Nuts.
‘Now all the cheerleaders there have moved on to other interests…for the most part.’
Yeah. Like getting on their knees in an alley somewhere, in a desperate attempt to make the bucks for the mortgages on the 9 condos they bought-to-flip-and-now-can’t in Coral Gables. Or Miami. Or, heck, anywhere in Florida!
Come to think of it, the entirety of Florida is pretty much going up in figurative housing flames, isn’t it? Just think of that…wow… I hope I don’t rupture myself from laughing.
I’ve watched the BLOG here since early ‘06 and it amazes me that even the most dire of predictions weren’t dire enough. I’m watching homes every day selling for less than their 2001 levels. How the median price still manages to stay so high is beyond my comprehension. I guess when only 700 homes sell countywide and 80 of them are waterfront it will keep the number high.
Your correct in that upper end homes that have been selling are inflating the median home prices in Florida and elsewhere as computed by the National Association of Realtors.
The NAR defines data collection criteria for their survey as a sampling of only 50% of sales in local MLS’s around the country to calculate the median price. As you might imagine, a selective sampling of 1/2 of closings can be used to “massage” the median. Further, when the NAR reports its pending sales figures monthly, its criteria is a 20% sampling, a minimal sampling, but easy to manipulate.
It should be noted that even with this leeway to subjectively select to project the “rosiest and most optimistic trade association member benefitting numbers” distributed monthly en masse through the mainstream media, NAR still shows a 31% drop in median price of single family homes in Miami (Case/Shiller shows Miami is down 28%), Sarasota is down 31% year over year, and Ft. Myers/Cape Coral down 34$).
Also, the majority of foreclosure and “short” sales, as well as non realtor sales are not included for consideration in NAR numbers, which would also lower the median.
The govenment distributed data (US Census, American Home Survey) is obsolete, antiquated and worthless on Florida. The declines they show are a farcical figure.
Florida Association of Realtors data also shows the realtors have sold app. 53% less single family homes the first half of 08 (compared to 05), and 67% less condos.
Prices will drop another 15-20% in Florida from now until all is said and done. Bailout or not.
Keep up the great work Ben.
“How the median price still manages to stay so high is beyond my comprehension.”
It’s a function of lifestyle. The “really rich” buy a home in Florida because they want to spend the depths of winter in a tropical climate in the US. If you live on the east coast, that is Florida, particularly if you might have to go back anytime during the winter (otherwise, you deal with time zones). The “investment” value of the home is irrelevant. If you want it, you buy it. This keeps the upper end more insulated.
But that guy is trying to move “to” Florida. His house in the UK is what’s not selling. Frankly I’m surprised that an oil and gas company which has to be swimming in some hard to find brand new capital right about now isn’t picking up the tab for his move.
“A designer in the oil and gas industry who currently works for Oceaneering Multiflex in Rosyth, Steven has secured a job with a sister company in America.”
Ok, I’ll bite. Just what is a designer in the oil and gas industry? Does he layout tasteful privies on off-shore rigs?
Nice one, turnoutthelights.
Sigh….but the word engineer sounds so blue collar. You wouldn’t want to come to the states sounding like you got your hands dirty would you?
Here in Sarasota there are for rent signs EVERYWHERE! I am returning to St. Louis in 2 weeks but will come back to my rented condo in November (1400 sq ft townhouse 2yrs old 1100.00 a month) than back to st. louis in March. I am hoping that there are still lots of rentals in November of 2009 when I return to Sarasota for the winter.
One wonders how long it will take these accidental landlords to get tired of renting their properties. My guess is one to two years.
The longer they rent the longer they hang on and keep up with the payments.
The more money they send to the banks the better for the rest of us.
Who says the accidental landlords are paying the banks anything?
With it taking a year to get foreclosed upon, I would bet there are alot of landlords out there who are accepting rent checks without making any mortgage payments of their own. Nice work if you can get it.
“But there have been no offers, so they cut the price to $545,000.”
Are you kidding me? Less than 1% price cut? You’re going to be holding that home for a LONG, LONG time man.
Hey, they’re not going to give the house away!
I’ve got neighbors with that attitude. Priced their homes at $349,900 and dropped to $339,900 and say they’ll go no lower.
News flash…I paid $225K (distressed sale) for my house in December of 2006 and probably could get $200K for it today. I bought a turkey even at $125K off. I can admit it. Time for them to admit it too.
What moron is going to buy the house for $545K? Think of the re-assessment on those Florida property taxes, will ya?
Yet another example of those born from 1938-1954 thinking that someone else should pay their way to fiscal nirvana.
Yea, as long as he doesn’t drop his price at a rate greater than the house is depreciating (roughly $3,000 per week for him), he’s in for a long wait.
$5000 off the price. Might as well keep paying that $3000 mortgage payment….
“I think within hours of us purchasing this house, everybody stopped buying houses, said Friedman” LOL!
Well you’ve got to hand it to the guy for having a sense of humor about himself! So now they’re taking on a renter? Well, o.k…
I don’t see why more people with really really big houses (they never needed ) don’t rent a room . Another way to make money is from the foreign student programs . But if a borrowers is to buried they will walk
these days .
In the above article the mortgage broker was talking about the Housing Bill not being a inducement to borrowers because they have to profit share if they sell and they can’t take out a equity loans for 5 years .
Don’t those statements just testify to what the motive of borrowers were for buying in the first place . Hell with the home if it doesn’t make me easy money ,in spite of the fact that the borrowers get a generous reduction in their principal balance if the lender forgives the loan amount that is reduced .
All the cries from homeowners playing victim saying , ” I just want to stay in my dream house that I work so hard for ,(putting nothing down of course ).” Here the Bill offers forgiven debt ,with a request for it to be paid back if the market goes up again and a restriction on them taking equity out for 5 years …big deal …And they get a good fixed interest rate ,something a person in default never gets and doesn’t deserve ,and it isn’t good enough for these “give me,give me” liar loan borrowers ,who bit off more than they could chew ,who also got the benefit of teaser rate payments for a while . F them .
Bail their butts out, and they complain that they can’t immediately take out a home equity loan! Proof that those worried about moral hazard were 100% correct.
The thought of living in a stranger’s house in a rented room sharing all other rooms does not appeal to me in the least.
Well there may be other benefits, Gary and his partner could help with your fashion decisions, and the decorating is probably very nice.
I’ve been doing now for the last 2 years in D.C. with two different home owners. It’s not for everyone, but I’m only paying $735 per month in rent in a very nice place in Arlington, VA and rents for a 1 bedroom in my area start at around $1,250 per month. The $500+ savings in rent each month really adds up after 2 years.
Makes sense to me. In the Great Depression, the FBs used to take on boarders, sell eggs, grow their own food, and make their own clothes to hold on to their homes and make ends meet.
In the current repression, everyone is just begging for handouts, bailouts, and claiming unemployment. God forbid they should be inconvenienced!
I’d prefer to share a rental unit with another person: there’s less of a sense that you’re trespassing. The space would be smaller but you’d be able to put your own feet on your own coffee table, which is worth something.
Mind you, I have friends who’ve lived this way — one couple lived as ‘boarders’ with two professionals who had bought a beautiful, huge house and finished it to a glorious level of polish, but then left it at 6 AM and didn’t return until 10-11 at night.
My friend and his partner had what was essentially a house to themselves for most of the day.
Sorry: the above was a response to hondje, not NoSingleOne.
I don’t think I’d like to board in a place that had chickens in the living room
I rented a room for 3 years in college, and loved it. I had a private room and bath with my own entry-way/parking spot for $200/month including all utilities. The home was owned by a retired police chaplain whose wife had passed away and kids were grown. I could use the kitchen, living room, family, or den as much as I wanted, but just had to make sure to clean up any mess I made when I was done.
Housing Wizard,
Well don’t hold back man! ( No I hear you ) and I think the Bill is more than generous and if they still walk after being offered that we can all say we did our part and then some.
There are ‘perfectly’ good reasons for having a boarder. My wife and I are actually considering it but for very different reasons. A LOT of people tout their “spirit of volunteering” ( just as long as they get to go home to their McMansion after the fund-raiser ) What is really… needed in our area is homes for people that aren’t quite ready for ambulatory care.
If the relatives want to give “pops” some spending cash, that’s great but basically we live like Filipinos anyway. One more old dude at the table isn’t going to make us or break us?
Just got back from the NC coast. Our hunting cottage (built in ‘53, way, way before the housing bubble) is located on the Lockwood Folly River, a few miles from Supply. The stretch of NC 211 between Supply and Southport has been called ground zero for NC foreclosures. I saw plenty of For Sale and Price Reduced signs, as well as a number of empty wanna-be upscale Golf “Plantations.”
Despite my hatred of the place, the family and I went to Myrtle Beach for one of the days. We kept getting acousted by desperate time-share sellers who kept spouting the same crap: They aren’t making anymore land, and now is the time to buy, because prices aren’t going to get any lower (BULLSHIT, I kept saying to myself, being too polite to say it out loud!)
“For five years you’re allowed no home equity loans”
?
And this is a problem… exactly, how? Some of the quotes from Charles Phoenix really sum up what so many have shared here for years. I mean what’s the point of owning an ATM machine if you can’t tap it, eh? So was the OS ( ownership society ) about private ownership or was it about subsidizing anemic incomes with a fresh ponzi? I still don’t get it.
“… and which average family doesn’t need a home equity loan for liquidity?”
Someone who has enough wiggle room on their credit card limits? I guess if they actually sacrificed and saved, they aren’t an “average family.”
“… and which average family doesn’t need a home equity loan for liquidity?”
I love the sound of symptomatic statements in the morning.
“‘For five years you’re allowed no home equity loans, and which average family doesn’t need a home equity loan for liquidity?’ said Fort Myers-based bankruptcy attorney Charles Phoenix.”
This thinking is so three years ago.
Maltose,
So right! And since when is having instant access to home equity a “right”? For the many long-time/vet homeowners that post here w/ regularity we realize there are but a few things that absolutely necessitate the use of home equity:
Major roof/foundation problems
Tree, power line and basic utility issues
and perhaps major HEATING sys. overhaul ( must reside above Mason-Dixon line to qualify!
Other than that “dreading those kitchen cabinets” or sulking about that “awful wallpaper” does not qualify as a valid need of home equity loans.
MD resident here, below the mason -dixon …. you bet you need heat here!
But yep I agree …
But,based on the high price to refinance a house ,it would make more sense to credit card emergencies ,or take out a installment loan, which many places offer ,or save for them ,or take advantage of programs at some of these places that don’t start charging interest for 2 years ,if you make a purchase .
And one of the biggest reason for not messing with your “PURCHASE MONEY FIRST TRUST DEED ” ,is that in States with no recourse ,the lender has no recourse ,should grave financial burden befall you and you have to walk .
No problem here. In 5 years he won’t have enough additional equity to cover the cost of another loan.
So we have to bail them out because they are greedy financial morons, then they’re complaining that they can’t do it again? Proof that the moral hazard fear was 100% correct.
“So was the OS ( ownership society ) about private ownership or was it about subsidizing anemic incomes with a fresh ponzi?”
Cmon Dino. You just hayte umurrica.
exeter,
I tend to think that it was about Rep. at least attempting to re-gain ’some’ of the minority vote and instead they wound up with… THIS! To be clear I don’t think anyone is disappointed… or surprised that many first-time buyers got in over their heads? Where “I’m” disappointed is all my ‘rich’ friends that took that to mean “God WANTS me to own five homes!” Then 4, then 3, and 2… LOL!
The more I think about this restriction on equity pull outs contained in the provisions of the Housing Bill
, it becomes a joke . Why would they allow any equity pull outs at all ,even after five years ,if the taxpayers were sold the idea that they would be paid back upon the sale of the home . If they take out equity and than sell the property …poof there goes the
profit sharing that was suppose to go to the debt forgiver. Am I reading this bill wrong ,or is the bill not well thought out?
“And this is a problem… exactly, how? Some of the quotes from Charles Phoenix really sum up what so many have shared here for years. I mean what’s the point of owning an ATM machine if you can’t tap it, eh?”
John Miami, Bob Vegas, and Carmen Sandiego agree with him.
That was a timely story about Florida commercial real estate, which is about to collapse, probably taking several banks with it. I drove into Bradenton the other day, and the stretch from I-75 into town on SR-64 is an unmitigated disaster. Just about every strip mall has vacancies and a large “for lease” sign out front. And I wouldn’t count on too many of the remaining tenants surviving, either.
I repeat myself here, but this state is going to be so different in twenty years that no one will recognize it.
Imagine 1971 Daytona Beach amplified southward to Homestead.
I’m making the drive on Sunday, I’ll keep an eye out. I hate Sarasota, btw, it’s one of my least fav places in all of FL (well, Gainsville is up there too, but at least it has an amazing college community, Sarasota just has cranky ol’farts).
Sorry to anyone who lives there, I’m sure many people feel the same way about Palm Beach, but the west coast of FL just doesn’t seem to hold much appeal for me. If it was dramatically cheaper, then, sure. However, it wasn’t, and still isn’t, so I just don’t see the draw.
Sarasota just has cranky ol’farts.
That’s probably accurate. We used to say St. Pete was full of old people, but found out we weren’t quite right.
Sarasota is full of old farts. It’s Their parents that live in St. Petersburg.
Sarasota is nicer than ANY city on the east coast of Florida IMO. Part of it is that more of the immigrants and snowbirds come from the midwest instead of New Yawk and New Joisey.
LMAO!
God, Mike, that is so East Coast of you.
Don’t you know? It’s the sunsets….
“John Lee is baffled his city property taxes will not drop as much as he had expected.”
This is why all those puff stories about reduced tax assessments being a “silver lining” are bogus. Does anyone really think the muni gov’ts will cut their budgets overnight in order to keep in line with the new lower property valuations fom the assessor’s office?
“Does anyone really think the muni gov’ts will cut their budgets overnight in order to keep in line with the new lower property valuations fom the assessor’s office?”
No. In Palm Beach County, the government ran fine in 1999, 2000, and 2001…we had fewer dog parks but the government ran. The prices ran up from 2002 to 2005 and they got all of that extra revenue. Now we’re supposed to thank them for not increasing taxes this year. I don’t thank them for that. I curse them for not lowering taxes from 2002 to 2005.
Prices up 2-3X on most homes in PBC in 3 years.
Tax rates (millage) unchanged?? WTF.. Anyone else see a problem here. I’ll stay off the Save our Homes rant, but, still, the situation is unreal down here. How that kind of corruption and theft continue?
County property appraiser ‘re-adjusted’ the values based on bogus sales. That is why taxes went up.
Supposedly, you had real increases in ‘value’, and they had the sales to prove it.
The problem was that they didn’t have any factors for the lack of ‘valuable consideration’ required to call something a legitimate sale. Zero Down? Cash out at closing? Is that a sale?
Or is this just a title transfer doomed to be re-transferred in a year or two at markedly lower property values.
They’ve got the guns.
Andy,
Don’t forget two (or is it three?) county commissioners are in jail or headed there because they used their office to profit in the housing boom period. And the former WPB mayor who made millions by using her influence to get her husband’s condo projects built.
The only one left out was Tony Soprano. He didn’t get any points
“The only one left out was Tony Soprano. He didn’t get any points”
Yeah, but he more than makes up for it by running Tampa.
gov workers never die, they just get pensions
my cvounty has a dept of wimyns affairs
where do you live? that sounds cool! : )
“Steven has even thrown his car into the deal - a three-year-old Mazda6 - in an attempt to sell the house by September, when he is due to start his new job in Panama City, Florida.”
Haw! Those were the days! I forgot about that: sellers used to add their cars into the sale mix in order to attempt to move property.
Who in the hell wants a 3 year old Mazda 6? Buy my house for more than it’s worth and I’ll throw in a shiny new Kia Rio!
I’ve got a funny Kia story for y’all. My next door neighbors had a pickup truck and a sedan when I first moved in. Neither vehicle was what you could call vintage. They were just a few years old.
But those plucky neighbors decided that it was time to upgrade their look. The old truck and sedan got tossed aside in favor of a big, honkin’ Dodge Ram pickup and an Olds Alero sedan.
And, to up the coolness factor, they also acquired a vintage open-sided Jeep. Perfect for cruising around during driving rainstorms and freezing cold mornings. (Yes, we do have such things here in Tucson.)
Earlier this year, I noticed some changes next door.
They have a sizable party patio in front of the house, and it had some very spiffy looking lawn furniture. Back in January, that furniture got loaded into the Ram and it hasn’t been seen ’round here since.
I’ve also noticed a steep drop in the party frequency. Not that I’m complaining. It seemed like this family’s goal was to consume as much alcohol in as short a time as possible. I don’t miss picking up the party detritus that just happened to land on my side of the property line.
Well, the changes just kept a-coming. Earlier this summer, the Alero and the Dodge Ram disappeared.
The Jeep stayed around, and I think they still have it. But I’m not sure. Haven’t seen it for a few days, but I did spot it in repair mode a few weeks ago. (The hood was up, and it stayed that way for the better part of a day.)
So, with the Ram and Alero gone, and just one less than all-weather vehicle remaining, what do they do? Well, it looks like they’ve acquired a Kia.
Looks like some serious toy-shedded and trading down is going on.
“Looks like some serious toy-shedded and trading down is going on.”
It’s that way all over my neighborhood. Kia’s, Hyundai’s, and small Chevy’s. I’m sure Kia makes a nice car for basic transportation, but I drive way to many miles to deal with a lack of comfort. I’m guilty of driving luxury vehicles…but I certainly don’t buy them new.
Well, I bought my vehicle new, and it is a luxury vehicle. However, the house I am renting is down 200K in value since I started my lease (according to Zillow, which is likely overstating the price), so, the way I look at it, I could have bought about 5 of these cars with the money I saved by renting.
However, my cars are fuel efficient (as if it makes a lick of difference, the cars are 30-50K each, I haven’t spent that much on gas in my entire lifetime; gas is still the cheap part of owning a car, people are just stupid).
My XJ8 does about 30 to the gallon on the highway and 20 in town. I don’t know where the EPA comes up with the ratings.
I’ve got a monstra Ford diesel Excursion , weighing more than 4 ton, and I get 21 mpg on the highway….
YAHH!!!! It cost me $150 to fill it up…..BUT…..
I love it and wouldn’t trade it for anything…..I’ll probably drive it another 150K miles, on top of the 170k on the odomoter…..Nothing like the smell of diesel in the morning
Why does everyone on here care what other people drive or buy or live in? It sounds like even though you realize these retards are imprudent in their finances your still jealous.
It sounds like nothing but pure envy. Why not just do what you think is right live your own way and not worry about “The Jones’s”? If they start bragging about what they have just walk away dont even listen to the garbage they spew.
If a guy wants a new truck and thats what he feels will “make” him happy why begrudge them? Mind your own business…sheesh!
Did we forget our happy pills today? Just observations here…
It is the financial irresponsibility of these people who have gotten us into the financial mess this country is currently in. If an individual or family has purchased items he/she cannot afford, the ramifications of their poor handing of their personal economy effects the rest of us through increased crime, lending difficulties, etc.
Not to mention, one of the little blissful moments in life is to point and laugh at the financially illiterate.
Well what other people drive does affect others.
There are about 140,000 others fighting for the oil to keep these gas hogs running. My taxes are higher because of them. These giant SUV’s are much more dangerous to pedestrians, and other drivers. Pollution affects everyone.
MEaston, babbabooie’s point was nothing more than hand wringing hillbilly logic. You know…. as long as I’m not molesting your child, mind your own business.
mattR, MEaston,
Well said, the only thing I would add that perhaps baabaa is glossing over is… the “smugness”. All during the bubble I managed to A) *not* take an expensive overseas vacation B) have elective surgery performed C) lever myself into a 2nd home, and a whole lot of other things I had to hear about on a daily basis. With of course the total inference that ( wink-wink ) “we can’t be doing ‘that’ well”.
So now we enjoy “this”? So… what of it?
Reply to MEaston….You maybe missing the point that “your” military is the largest user of gas/oil/diesel in the world….Did you ever consider how much that is costing you???? DUHHHH!!! Gee, you never thought of that did you????….Blame the guy next door for driving a car you don’t like!!!!
You mean a 3 year old Mazda financed with a 30 year loan. What bank would give someone a loan for that? Apparently with the right appraisal, there are still banks that will do it.
“In addition, any homeowner in the program who sells his home within five years must share any profit with the FHA based on a sliding scale.”
It’s nice to have Big Brother as a partner, no?
Freddie Mac, one of the largest investors in residential mortgages in the U.S., will also extend the time for foreclosures, so servicers will have more time to negotiate workouts with delinquent borrowers in Washington, D.C., and 20 states with relatively fast foreclosure processes. Servicers will be given up to 10 months from the due date of the last payment to the foreclosure sale.
“Giving our servicers more time and greater compensation to help troubled borrowers is fundamental to preserving homeownership and maximizing our efforts to minimize foreclosures,” Vice President of Servicing and Asset Management Ingrid Beckles said.
It is going to be a looooooooong ride….
Yes I’m a dork, replying to my own post. We can all rest assured that we can grow our own corn and cure it, pop it, raise a cow and make butter for the popcorn Neil keeps touting. I think this puts us back one inning.
10 months
hmm
Yet another step to push the problem down the road to the next president.
heh.. if i could convince someone to lend me money based on his getting 50% of the profits if an event that cannot happen happens, it’s a good (but kinda dumb) partner, imo.
I’m not saying there will be zero profit to share in 5 years.. just that it’s unlikely to be enough to worry about.
Yeah, I found that point amusing. Does the FHA seriously think it’s going to get much of anything back in this situation, given that the baby boomers are now on their downward slope?
My guess is they stuck this profit sharing provision in there mainly to deter potential flipper/speculators.
I never have. I must be doing something wrong.
firefox user,
Well duh! You’re letting the best things in life pass you ‘buy’.
No, I’m never too harsh with those that take that path provided it’s for the right reasons. I once owned a house that had several “dead valleys” on the roof. Rain ( yes in Oregon ) had a tendency to ‘puddle’ for weeks on end. As this was a sprawling ranch, it was all roof. It cost almost 18k for a bid that would actually stop the leaks.
Since I’d owned the house for a decade ( and a very good decade at that ) I’m not sure whether I recovered my costs? But I do know it would have been difficult to sell with pans and buckets all over the kithcen floor.
I take it back. I did a re-fi to extract the future sale profit out of my condo (and end an ARM that had spiked to 9%) to convert to a 15 year fixed-rate and pull out a down payment to move into a family-sized home. Then moved into the family-sized home and sold the condo, taking the rest of the profits.
About the same as a heloc, but using different paperwork. Never mind.
Otherwise I might have, gosh, used savings or not moved or not had more kids! The horror! How un-Umericun of me.
The lending industry set the people up to need to refinance because the original toxic loan they went on adjusted up and the teaser payments were no more eventually . Than the loan industry would sell the borrower on pulling out equity ,and no doubt a lot of fees were paid out of that equity for the new refinance . So, the concept of serial refinancing was born with the big prize of it not costing borrowers anything out of pocket ,and they would get a big check at the close of the refinance escrow ,with brand new teaser rates again .
On of the biggest sins of the industry was putting the sheep on loans that no doubt had to be refinanced ,or the loan would kill the borrower with time . No doubt the borrowers went on these loans because they were the easiest to qualify for and the down payment requirements were low, and a teaser rate gave a false sense of low payments . Liar loan borrowers could get these loans easy and the REIC sold them like they were the only loan to go on . I was amazed that in a low fixed rate market that anyone was even considering the adjustable ,but if you look at the short term goals of many a borrower ,the toxic teaser rate adjustable was just the ticket . I’m sure the borrowers didn’t get the warning that if real estate didn’t go up they would be stuck with their higher interest rate toxic adjustable loan in which the payments would skyrocket .
So much of what was sold during the boom was based on the myth that “real estate always goes up “,and that was the cheerleaders theme song to lure borrowers into the feeling of risk free investment . I have never seen so many borrowers willing to commit fraud , or lie about their income ,on their loan applications .”Get in now or you will be priced out forever ,” was another line that made many a potential homeowner jump the gun and be willing to lie to get in .
Using panic selling or buying sales ploys has always been frowned on in Realtors Codes across the Nation and there are some Federal laws that suggest that these sort of sales ploys are
not allowed. But like with a lot of the foul play that went on during the boom ,it’s still going on .
Housing Wizard,
We’ve gotten plenty of confirmation from within the industry as well. Anyone that knows more than 2 MB’s is aware that these guys felt they were “their” loans in the regard they knew full well they’d need to be refinanced within a certain time frame.
So they could actually calculate what their income would be in April ‘05, May, June etc. as pre-payment penalties and teaser rates expired. It’s called “annuitizing your book”. In the end the practice was so common it didn’t even necessitate they be “your” loans. Plenty enough FB’s to go around!
Good point, but what got me about these ARMs is that they were handed out like candy. I read on another site that even with a reduction in loan balance and refi into a 30 fixed, the payment was still higher than the teaser ARM.
The reason the condo started out with an ARM was not the lack of down payment (20%) but the short (2yr) employment history of the buyer and the income (the condo was probably 3.5x the yearly income) and had a good FICO. But the buyer added a secondary (with good income, FICO and history who was willing to share the responsiblity).
This was in the mid 90s and the condo had been built on spec.
Same here. It was only recently that I realized the degree to which people were treating their houses as piggy-banks.
“Farmer emphasized just how low prices have dropped. A three-bedroom house in Golden Gate Estates, with two bathrooms and a two-car garage, recently sold for $74,000, he said.”
In Naples, Florida? Unbelievabubble!
I couldn’t believe that, either so I Googled Golden Gate Estates. Mostly property at that price, but not all:
http://amerivestrealtyofnaples.com/208006552
Golden Gate is not exactly “in” Naples. Google map it. I especially like the miles of empty roads laid out into the Great Cypress Swamp beyond Golden Gate. Who says they are not making more land in FL? Bring on the Boomers, Canadians, and Europeans. Naples is ready.
FWIW - I believe the original Golden Gate in Florida was a resort community in Martin County that was incorporated in 1925 (during the first big SE Florida boom years) but is now part of the city of Stuart.
“Up and down State Road 54, from Trinity to Wesley Chapel, the economic trend becomes evident: For lease. For sale. For lease. For sale. Those signs are not for houses. They are for office space.”
This is exactly what I see in Palm Beach County. 100% of all buildings have for lease signs in front of them. 100%. Who the heck is going to rent all that space? Probably 50% of the space that is currently rented is by real-estate related companies; sales, mortgages, title, contractors, suppliers, etc., and 1/2 of them will be out of business. I predict carnage in Florida commercial real estate, worse than residential.
“I predict carnage in Florida commercial real estate, worse than residential.”
That’s going to be a hotly contended contest, that’s for sure. Residential is going down about 50%, think commercial can beat that? Maybe, not saying it won’t, but it will be a fight of the HBB heavyweights, that’s for sure!
Best HBB matchups:
Palm Beach County vs. Las Vegas
Miami-Dade vs. Orange County
Tampa vs. Marin
FL vs. AZ
Commercial real estate baffles me even more than residential. Why would any bank loan someone money to build a new office building right next door to five existing new ones that are 75% empty after two years? What are all these people going to DO in all those offices? At least the homebuilders can claim a new project is going to be different in some way than the others, but these office buildings are exactly the same.
LOL. That may be the first time ever that Tampa and Marin County, Calif., were used in the same sentence. Maybe the better matchup is Tampa vs. Sacramento.
If residential is going down 50%, the bottom is more or less in. Do you mean 50% from today?
“At the same time, the median sales price of those homes was $160,000 in June, down from $255,000 in June 2007. The median sales price for condominiums fell from $287,500 to $152,000 year to year.”
Oh, the humaniteeeeee!!! It’s just a little froth. Nevermind.
1/2 off. And still quite a bit more to fall. Folks, I hate to say it, but I may be a “goldilocks” with my 50% off prediction.
Two homes in my neighborhood in Southeastern Palm Beach county just sold for only about 10-15% less than they would have at peak. We never had a crazy 300% increase, though, so maybe that’s why they haven’t dropped as much as some others. These sold for about twice what they would have in 2000. I think it has to do with the fact that the neighborhood is only about a mile from the beach, the houses are about 20 years old so they weren’t built entirely by illegal aliens, the lots are large, we’ve had no foreclosures, and most of the houses have four bedrooms in an area mostly three bedrooms and below.
“‘Were ready to have somebody move in here”
and
“looking to boost they’re monthly income”
Both in the original article, published in a paper by someone presumably paid to write it, copy-edited by someone presumably paid to do that.
Not to nitpick too much, but Jesus Frinking Christ.
It’s not God, my friend. It’s just Winston at MinRec.
I see similar errors in the Tucson papers. They so infuriated one of my friends that she called them and offered to be a volunteer copyeditor.
Slim - I made the same volunteering offer to the East Valley Tribune years ago; my solution was to drop my subscription! We are seeing some air leaving the property bubble, but there’s still plenty of air in the ‘airhead’ bubble that seems to be in place in media large and small across the US. Watch/listen for the misuse of ‘amount vs. number’, and the appalling volume of subject/verb disagreement unleashed in the last 15 years…in Az, you get what you pay for, and we don’t pay much for education, do we?
Preach it, Citrusman! I haven’t seen a thing here that makes me regret going through K-12 in Pennsylvania, then on to college in Michigan.
I’m afraid it’s a pandemic that covers all 50 states. This generation of kiddies can’t even write a complex sentence correctly, let alone a readable paragraph. Spelling? Fuhgeddaboudit.
WSJ yesterday had an article about kiddies texting a thank-you after a job interview.
I wud (heart) 2 wrk 4 u.
and I need to say that this is not a universal condition, but is more the norm than it has been in prior generations…there are plenty of younger people who can communicate effectively, but it seems like that the behaviors and skill sets that were previously considered the characteristics of the outliers in our society (e.g., marginal reading and math skills) are now the attributes of those much closer to the center of the old bell-shaped curve…off the soapbox, Cman!
Agreed - the top 10-20% in the U.S. are as smart as the top 10-20% were 30 years ago. But oh that middle!
“But that’s nothing compared to the glut of vacant lots…”
Must be a typo, after all we all know that they’re not making any more land. LOL.
““‘For five years you’re allowed no home equity loans, and which average family doesn’t need a home equity loan for liquidity?’ said Fort Myers-based bankruptcy attorney Charles Phoenix. Regulations will also have to deal with the issue of existing home equity lines, he said.”
“In addition, any homeowner in the program who sells his home within five years must share any profit with the FHA based on a sliding scale. ‘What’s the point of owning your own home when you can’t benefit from thears profit? You’re probably better off renting,’ Phoenix said.”
Amazing. I always had a soft spot for BK attorneys (family reason), but this guy is pathetic. First, I thought home loans were to buy the home, not to use the house as a piggy bank. Second, I thought homes were for living in, not “…benifit(ing) from a profit”. It sounds a lot like much of his business was due to these factors, and he’s upset that we’re finally taking baby steps to have people start buying a house to actually live in (radical thought). But he shouldn’t worry so much, after 5 years even the people “helped out” by this bill will be free again to be his customers (and there won’t be that many of them).
If you think about it, probably every BK client this guy ever had did a HELOC, so natch he’d think everybody does one.
I think home prices (and consequently, mortgage payments) are so inflated that home buyers need HELOCs just to cover living expenses. I believe - in addition NINJA loans - the ready availability of HELOCs is in part what fed the bubble.
topic request: the effect of the bail bill
if rental type low end homes are going to be like reverse weird convertable bonds where you give up 1/2 the profit, what is modestly priced RE worth ???????
‘I’m frustrated, however I still feel like it’s priced very well, and I don’t see myself lowering it,’
I don’t see you lowering it either. I also don’t see you selling it.
A 1% reduction is useless in my book.
“‘I can’t believe they’re still building,’ Shaw said.”
Builders build, because lenders lend…..that’s what my Dad always says…..
Building activity (commercial or residential) has nothing to do with economic activity, and everything to do with loan availability…..
John, were we separated at birth? Your Dad sounds a lot like mine.
My Dad’s dealt with a lot of builders and a lot of lenders….he knows what he is talking about.
I remember telling him how it seemed so stupid for BofA to buy Countrywide - what with all of Countrywide’s bogus assets and liabilities.
He said, “They are buying CW for the servicing”. A few days later I read a story that BofA probably won’t be using the CW name and won’t be guaranteeing the CW debt, and really all they will be using is the servicing platform and servicing the existing mortgage portfolio.
Smart guy that Dad of mine…..
You should stick around here for awhile John.
Ask your dad how much they think they’ll make servicing 3 million ‘defaulted’ loans….Then again…maybe they’ll start a collection agency….No matter which way you slice it or dice it….Right now anything to do with Real Estate is NOT prospective for profits, unless you’re a vulture
Pure wisdom.
NNOOOOO!!! A dumb guess is not equated with wisdom
“In a glimmer of good news on the lot front, developers have largely ceased paving former cow pastures, orange groves and forests. ‘Hillsborough finally stopped adding lots this quarter,’ said Tony Polito, who compiled the new-home report. ‘The other counties stopped adding lots months before that.’”
Glimmer?! GLIMMER?! Fook no! That’s a raging bonfire of good news, far’s I’m concerned! I own a home. I can afford the mortgage. I have no desire to HELOC. I don’t care to make a profit by outwitting anyone. Every mostly hairless biped can live in a tipi or spaceship, I don’t care; the one and only reason I have so closely followed this hideous mess of the housing/lending bubble has been because it is so utterly awful to watch the forests cut down, the wetlands paved, the streams filled with gravel.
And now look! The greedy pigmen have stopped finding profit in ravenous destruction of the natural world…ooops. I think I just had a ‘gasm.
Good thing I’m working from home.
I hear you on the working from home part, Oly.
If I took an outside job, I’d have to do some serious cleanup of my language. (What I say to the computer cannot be reprinted in a family blog like this one.)
And the wardrobe. Oh, brother, would that ever need some big changes.
Well folks, that wasn’t much of a bailout, now was it.
Considering all the angst and uproar it caused around here, Ben coulda scored big time if his new business venture was selling hand lotion for the last few weeks..
Joey …you can’t make assessments this early in the game ,the darn bill was just signed Monday . Tally the bill in five years to be really fair .
I think the point is that people are starting to read the bill and realize that:
- borrowers actually have to be able to afford the payment
- borrower’s will be charged mortgage insurance premiums
- borrower’s can’t HELOC
- if the borrower sells within 5 years they have to share profits with the government
This eliminates about 95% of the people out there. The only way to “save the borrowers” is to give them teaser rates, allow them to HELOC, allow them to borrow 100% with no PMI, allow them to have all the upside…..in other words, bring back 2005-2007 lending.
That’s why the excitement about the bill is kinda falling flat….
John F,
Right. I suppose that couple in Modesto “waiting to see what kind of government program they’ll qualify for” finally has their answer.
Mooch free rent as long as possible and then pack only when forced to do so.
Another feature of the bill: The $7,500 tax credit for first-time buyers is actually an interest-free loan. They gotta pay it back over 15 years by adding $500 to their taxes due each year.
The market in Miami is in total disarray.
Similar houses on the same block, one still comes with a $550K fantasy price tag next to a foreclosure with an asking price of $200K. The foreclosures used to sell quickly at those prices, but not anymore. Some are now offered at about 1/3 of what some idot paid back in 05 or 06 and still no takers.
Prices in nicer neighborhoods tend to hold up better than in the numerous slums. Prices reductions in the upper crust neighborhoods are a moderate 20% off peak while in the socio economic challenged areas mark downs of 60+% are not uncommon.
“…while in the socio economic challenged areas mark downs of 60+% are not uncommon.”
That’s becaused those challenged areas should have never seen the appreciation that they did. Too many get rich quick, why don’t you flip type shows combined with stupid lending.
I remember a real estate agent telling me that Tamarind Ave was a real up and coming area. Anyone who’s familiar with it can tell you that was a line of BS.
Same thing in PBC. There are identical houses on the same street with a 2X differential between the 2 on their asking prices (and neither selling).
How can anyone even dream of selling a model X home for 1M dollars when another model X is for sale for 500K NEXT DOOR. Yes, this situation actually occurs quite frequently in my neighborhood. And, even at 500K, it’s overpriced. But how on earth could you get a bank, anywhere to lend you 1M dollars to buy a home in Palm Beach, FL (one of the housing bust epicenters) when you can buy the home across the street for 1/2 the money? It’s insanity, and I am sure Miami has it just as bad (if not worse).
Half the offerings are short sales and foreclosures. Private sellers still haven’t gotten the memo: “The bubble days are over and you missed the train. Life goes on.”
Some foreclosures have been festering around for 6 month or longer with numerous price reductions. There’s a guy in my neighborhood selling ply-wood. He pulls it of freshly boarded up houses to make a living. After him the homeless move in and scavenge anything that can be turned into $$.
There’s no bottom in sight for a while, at least in Miami and surrounding areas. Besides all the problems with single family homes we have something like a 36 month supply of condos.
Amazing… no bailout will stop that runaway train.
“Some foreclosures have been festering around for 6 month or longer with numerous price reductions.”
Maybe the lenders aren’t slashing fast enough. Homes in PBC are moving quickly when the lenders pull MLS and price 10% less than the next cheapest home. It’s happening a lot. There are lender owned homes in the Olympia development listed in the $260’s which is less than pre-construction in 2002.
“There’s a guy in my neighborhood selling ply-wood. He pulls it of freshly boarded up houses to make a living. After him the homeless move in and scavenge anything that can be turned into $$.”
Here’s what I don’t get. Why don’t the banks install alarm systems so that intruders are arrested and tossed in jail? A thousand bucks or so in installation costs seems like a reasonable expense to prevent tens of thousands of dollars of damage.
Alarm systems don’t arrest intruders; neither do they put them in jail.
Alarm systems don’t arrest intruders; neither do they put them in jail.
I was thinking in terms of one of the systems that called the cops.
“‘For five years you’re allowed no home equity loans, and which average family doesn’t need a home equity loan for liquidity?’ said Fort Myers-based bankruptcy attorney Charles Phoenix.”
Answer: the family who can actually afford to buy a house won’t need a home equity loan for liquidity in those first few years. But these kinds of families are not the ones bankruptcy atourneys are used to seeing, I guess.
RE: The Orlando Sentinel. “An Orlando real estate agent arrested this week has been charged with mortgage fraud and grand theft. Orange County Sheriff’s detectives said Garry S. Martin, 35, forged signatures on various documents and wired home-sale proceeds to bank accounts that he controlled. Investigators said the fraudulent sales in 2006 involved one sale that netted $172,804 and another one that totaled $253,484.”
“Martin, a licensed real estate broker, was taken into custody at his office on Monday and booked into the Orange County Jail.”
Hmmm….A cool $425k clipped by this fraudster with a pen.
Armed bank robbery is for pikers.
I wish the story had been more informative.
It doesn’t say if he was a Realtor ™, you know, the one’s with the Code of Ethics…………
bhwahhhaahahahah…………
I keep watching some houses for sale in Mirasol which is off PGA Blvd in Palm Beach County. One house that was originally priced at $1.025 million is now $599,000 and still can’t sell and another house I am watching that was originally over $800,000 is now $525,000 and the bank is in the process of foreclosing. The best thing about this golf developments is that you can find the exact same house priced $300,000 apart. Why do the realtors even bother listing the more expensive house. I am predicting that house in Mirasol will sell for under $400,000 in the next 18 months.
People are not getting it, YOUR HOUSE IS NOT WORTH WHAT YOU PAID….end of story and it won’t sell until you priced it like it is 2002.
Also, I just received an email from Taylor Woodrow the builder of Mirasol offering $90,000 golf memberships with the purchase of a new house.
2002 prices might be just the tip of the iceberg. I stated earlier that I bought my house for $225K which was late 2001/early 2002 pricing. I might get $200K for it today if I wanted to sell in any reasonable amount of time.
Here in the City of Cleveland we are at housing values probably from the 1930s. No bull, just check out zillow. There are lots of houses moving here for $250-$1000 a pop. Banks are giving them away. You might find one house on the block not boarded up now. It’s sickening.
Yeah, Mirasol is another PBG disaster area. I live in Evergrene, which, at least is east of 95. Land out west (or near) the TPKE north of FTL really has very little/no value; there’s hectares of land out there that’s undeveloped, it’s hot, it’s buggy (can be), the beach is far away, there’s no good way to go east/west in FL.. And, to top it off, there’s no jobs out there either (come east to 95 for just about every major employer). I never lived west of 95, and don’t plan on changing that (no matter how cheap all those golf course homes get).
Well Michael, my business sevices all of those who bought the buggy swamp land. Lots of clients from Wellington, Acreage, and West PBG area. So at least I’VE got work out there. Everyone else? I don’t know.
Well even though they are giving free golf memberships (initiation) the yearly dues are still $15,000. I think you can get a much better deal in Ibis but, Mirasol is much nicer. I think I will just wait for the foreclusres to start and then the prices will really start to fall.
I don’t care for IBIS. It was overpriced from the start in the 1990’s. Everyone I’ve met from there strikes me as believing they are better than I am…especially those that bought early.
I had friends that had a very nice home in the acreage and an acre and a half, but decided they wanted to live in a country club community so they bought in Ibis back in ‘03 or early ‘04.
I couldn’t figure out the allure of Ibis with the high monthly fees and mostly zero lot line houses, but they wanted to play more golf.
My solution was to stay in my Lake Worth house and go to Lake Worth Municipal or Lacuna if I wanted to golf.
Check this out
101 Siesta Way Mirasol
http://www.berknerrealty.com/mirasol.htm
Asking Price $599,000
Original Asking Price $1,125,000
On the market since 6/16/06 (OVER TWO YEARS)
Purchased October 06 $872,984
Ist Mortgage $698,386 at 7.35%
2nd Mortgage $174,596
NO MONEY DOWN
Says it is a short sale. Wonder if the lender has signed off.
What a coincidence, my brother lives in Evergrene.
‘What’s the point of owning your own home when you can’t benefit from the profit? You’re probably better off renting,’
HA HA HA!
Better question - What’s the point of owning your own house that you paid too much for that WON’T turn a profit for many, many years?
Another question - What’s the point of owning your house that is making you drown every month in payments where the only hope you have of even holding on to the house is to have the government step in to make it marginally more affordable each month (still not turning a profit though)?
Somewhere, I hear Nancy Sinatra singing, “These boots are made for walking, that’s what they’re gonna do…”
Technically, it won’t yield a profit EVER.
Most people are happy if they made more than they paid but that’s nominal profit. You must count both inflation, and the opportunity cost of that capital.
These prices will NEVER make a profit in real terms.
Housing wasn’t designed to be a profit vehicle for anyone but the banks.
Until it wasn’t.
Happy Day! My wife’s first paycheck just came for the new school year (she’s a high school teacher). In addition to advancing a row on the salary schedule for service time, they moved her a column over for education. That’s ~$3k/yr more than we were expecting.
For five years you’re allowed no home equity loans, and which average family doesn’t need a home equity loan for liquidity?’ said Fort Myers-based bankruptcy attorney Charles Phoenix.
‘What’s the point of owning your own home when you can’t benefit from the profit? You’re probably better off renting,’ Phoenix said.”
Couple of points. One, yet another reason lawyers are scum. Two, houses were never meant to be ATM’s. Three, if you need an equity loan in the first five years, you should not be buying. Fourth, this bailout of all of your deadbeat and specuvestors are using MY tax dollars, so yes, I should share any potential profit. And Fifth, yes most people are better off renting.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
“Investors with plenty of money had seen the housing boom and figured they could turn a profit with professional office buildings to support the residential growth.”
And staff them with office dwellers shuttling e-mail messages to each other and talking about their weekends.
‘Everything’s here. Ready to move in and very comfortable,’ said homeowner Gary Friedman. He’s now turning his guest room into a rental.
“But where will all the dispossessed go? They’ll always have to live somewhere.“