Now, It’s Not Such A Madhouse In California
The North County Times reports from California. “Business bankruptcies in San Diego County have doubled from a year ago as the housing downturn has depleted real estate companies’ assets. Real estate-related companies appear to represent the majority of the bankruptcies in San Diego, according to court records. Likewise, Chapter 7 filings, where all assets are liquidated, have jumped by 85 percent from a year ago.”
“‘There’s been a tremendous upswing in Chapter 11s,’ said John Smaha, a bankruptcy attorney in San Diego. ‘In the last 10 years, Chapter 11s were almost unheard of in San Diego.’”
“Some of those Chapter 11 filings could turn from bad to worse. ‘Sometimes people file Chapter 11 because they don’t want to give up. That’s a human response,’ said Michael T. O’Halloran, a bankruptcy attorney in San Diego. ‘But if you’re on the Titanic, it’s not going to be fun.’”
The Union Tribune. “With so much equity built up in his Imperial Beach home, Michael Ortiz thought he and his family could rent out their place and buy a new, bigger, better house. That was 2004. Four years later, Ortiz’s family, like so many others, is feeling the pinch of falling home prices, plus rising gas and food costs.”
“He asked county officials to reassess the value of his property and lower his taxes. In Ortiz’s case, he asked in October that his home - with an assessed value of $628,320 - be reduced to $553,000. County assessors reduced it even further, to $535,000. ‘I was content with $553,000, but when I saw their figure I was like, ‘Sold!’ he said.”
“He said he doesn’t regret buying his new home despite the sudden $93,000 drop in value, and he’s certainly glad he applied for a reassessment. ‘It took a lot of legwork, but the payoff is worth it,’ he said. ‘If I don’t do this, I’m basically throwing this (money) away.’”
The Orange County Register. “Remodeling contractor Eddie Kesky had a backlog of customers three years ago. Today, however, ‘tear downs’ are few and far between. After 33 months of falling home sales, a credit crunch and a 23-percent drop in home prices, owners aren’t spending so freely anymore. Plus, it’s no longer easy to get loans as home values tumble.”
“Anaheim-based Ganahl Lumber, which derives a large portion of its income from remodeling contractors, saw its sales numbers fall 7 percent in 2007, said CEO Peter Ganahl. This year so far, sales are off 15 percent from last year, he said.”
“In 2005 and 2006, remodeling contractors would be lined up outside the chain’s stores at opening time. ‘It was a madhouse,’ he said. ‘Now, it’s not such a madhouse.’”
The LA Times. “Southern California median home sale prices are down about 30% from their peak. That’s about as far as they fell in the 1990s real estate downturn, and enough of a decline to have many asking: Is it time to buy?”
“The ratio of home prices to annual rents in the Los Angeles area was 20 as of March 31, meaning the median home sale price was 20 times a year’s rent for a comparable property, according to Moody’s Economy.com. The 15-year average ratio in Los Angeles is 16.4.”
“Margaret Smith, a Claremont financial planner and former university economist, and her husband, Gary Smith, a Pomona College economist, say buying is practically a sure bet when you would pay less for a monthly mortgage and other home costs than what it would cost to rent the home.”
“They call that monthly savings the ‘home dividend’ and say it will offset a short-term decline in a home’s value. Even if your mortgage payment and expenses start out higher than comparable rent, the payment becomes relatively cheaper as rents increase — provided it is a fixed-rate loan. ‘You can certainly turn a negative into a positive over time,’ Margaret Smith said.”
“‘Stop fixating on short-term price moves; think about long-term rent savings,’ Gary Smith said.”
“If someone delays buying a house that would produce rent savings to hold out for a better price, the delay would mean losing those savings — and the loss could be compounded if prices went up instead.”
“‘Buying a house is risky, but waiting is risky too,’ Gary Smith said.”
The Monterey County Herald. “Unemployment in Monterey County, heavily reliant on the highly seasonal industries of tourism and agriculture, hit 6.6 percent in June, up from 5.5 percent for June 2007. The median selling price for a single-family home in Monterey County in June was $359,900, down 49.9 percent from the June 2007 median price of $719,000.”
“Foreclosures keep climbing at record pace: 847 homes were lost to foreclosure in the second quarter of this year, up 443 percent over the same quarter last year.”
“But market adjustments have created opportunity: Would-be buyers, long priced out of the real estate market, are finding themselves more likely to be able to afford homes in Monterey County.”
“Becky D’Addea Jones, an agent in Monterey, received more than 35 offers in nine days on a bank-owned property in Seaside - a record for her company. Most, she suspects, are from first-time home buyers. The house, which its previous owner bought for $600,000, is listed for $190,000.”
The Times Herald. “The bill signed Wednesday by President Bush, designed to rescue homeowners facing foreclosure, may do more harm than good, local real estate experts said Thursday.”
“‘It made the extended FHA loan limits permanent, and that’s good, especially in California where homes are more expensive, but a bunch of things were tacked on to the bill that made it not such a great deal,’ said Solano Association of Realtors President Lori Collins. Those permanent limits will be lower than the temporary higher limits that expire in January.”
“‘I have no clients that will be helped by this, and some will be hurt,’ she said. ‘One of the provisions in the bill does away with the down payment assistance programs, so it actually seems to make matters worse.’”
“The ‘tax credit’ of up to $7,500 offered by the bill to first-time homebuyers is actually a no-interest loan, Collins said. ‘So, about two years after taking this credit, homeowners will have to start paying it back, which could add another $500 a year to their property tax bill,’ she said.”
“Whatever provisions the bill contained aimed at saving homeowners facing foreclosure, appear to have vanished from the final version, Collins said.”
“‘It seems to put some pressure on lenders to restructure some of their adjustable rate loans, but it doesn’t require it,’ she said. ‘And if they do, and there’s appreciation in five years, you have to split it 50/50 with the government.’”
“Benicia mortgage broker Mitchell Chernock of Sky Valley Financial and mortgage banker John Murphy of Vallejo’s Metro Gold Financial, said no one yet knows all the law’s ramifications. They said, however, the new law appears to fall far short of the economic rescue many were seeking.”
“‘It’s a lot of political hogwash and rhetoric for election-year purposes only,’ Murphy said. ‘It won’t really help anybody and will probably hurt people, especially around here.’”
“‘They raised the amount of down payment needed for the FHA loans from 3 percent to 3.5 percent and the down payment assistance through nonprofit organizations, goes away,’ Murphy said. ‘Ninety percent of the loans we’ve done this year have been through these programs. So, those people wouldn’t be able to buy a home now.’”
“‘We’re keeping all our clients on the sidelines until we know what’s really going on,’ Chernock said. ‘It doesn’t look like the federal government will do what we were hoping and expecting they’d do and step in to help struggling homeowners.’”
“Murphy said he expects the bill will slow sales, which were just starting to pick up locally, and exert added downward pressure on home values. ‘I don’t see how this is going to help anybody, in California, anyway,’ Murphy said.”
“And the eventual outcome of one provision, which provides funds for cities and counties to rehab foreclosed-on homes to create affordable housing, is questionable, Murphy said. ‘I don’t know how I feel about cities and counties getting into the house-flipping business,’ he said.”
The San Francisco Business Times. “California Mortgage and Realty President David Choo is selling off nine properties in a bid to save his struggling private mortgage company. The properties listed for sale include an office tower development site at 524 Howard St.; a two-family building in Pacific Heights; a condo at the St. Regis; houses in Piedmont and St. Helena; a condo in New York; and the seven-parcel assemblage at First and Mission.”
“Starting in late 2007, CMR borrowers started running into problems. Delinquencies in CMR’s fund II portfolio increased $52.9 million from December 31, 2007 to May 31. As of May 31, 21 CMR loans worth $84.9 million were delinquent, of which $81.9 million was delinquent more than 90 days, according to the SEC filing. CMR says its borrowers have been ‘increasingly unable to make their loan payments, find equity partners, sell or refinance their properties in order to meet their obligations to our investors.’”
“For now, CMR investors have no choice but to be patient. The company suspended redemptions and cash distributions to investors on March 31. As of May 31, $29.9 million of redemption requests are currently outstanding.”
“Bill Wessels, who has $1.4 million invested in CMR funds and has been an investor with Choo for a decade, said he is willing to give the company time to work through the foreclosures and bankruptcies.”
“‘You’re either a doubting Thomas or you keep the faith,’ said Wessels. ‘The ones who get shaken out of the bowl are going to be the losers.’”
The Sacramento Bee. “In another marker on the economic misery scale, a 1.1 million-square-foot mall on tap for southern Sacramento County has stalled, officials confirmed Thursday. The Elk Grove Promenade, an open-air regional mall that repeatedly has pushed back an opening date, is among a number of retail projects nationally that General Growth Properties Inc. of Chicago will delay, several City Council members said.”
“Elk Grove has become an epicenter of the housing market downturn. And unemployment regionally is the highest in 12 years. ‘We’re just not seeing the retail sales we’d like to see in Elk Grove,’ said John Wallace, a strip mall developer with properties in Elk Grove.
“‘If retailers are saying we’re slow in Northern California … or in Miami, and we’re going to hold back, that’s the start of the dominoes,’ Wallace said.”
“The cutbacks have already started. Californians - spooked by negative economic news and the tens of billions of dollars they’ve lost to rising gas prices and disappearing home equity - are ratcheting down their spending. It’s true even for those who’ve avoided foreclosure or a pink slip.”
“Tim Einer, a software trainer in Lincoln, considers himself upper middle class but has seen his home equity fall by $225,000. He traded his Jaguar for a fuel-efficient Chevy, scrapped a European vacation and stocks up at Target whenever possible.”
“‘I have worries all the time - you just see how the economy is,’ Einer said. ‘I don’t think any of us are guaranteed anything anymore.’”
“In California, ‘equity extractions’ - the volume of cash homeowners generate through refinancing, home equity loans or outright sales - fell 20 percent last year, according to DataQuick.”
“That’s a loss of $25 billion, or nearly 2 percent of the state’s output - a figure economists regard as significant. Equity extractions fell 44 percent the first four months of this year, pulling an additional $15 billion out of the economy.”
“The falling real estate market has been doubly burdensome for Meredith Wharton, a Folsom real estate agent. Not only is she ‘working twice as hard for half the reward,’ she and her husband, Mark, have had to adjust to the decline in their own home equity.”
“Because they both live mainly on commission income, they frequently use their home equity line of credit to smooth out fluctuations in their paychecks. But their available credit was recently cut in half, to $50,000, reducing their financial cushion.”
“Though they haven’t seriously changed their standard of living, ‘we’re cutting back, we’re holding cash,’ she said. ‘We’re more nervous. Instead of taking a two-week vacation, flying to Hawaii or somewhere, we’re thinking of taking a driving trip or not going anywhere.’”
“‘You’re either a doubting Thomas or you keep the faith,’ said Wessels. ‘The ones who get shaken out of the bowl are going to be the losers.’”
This bowl he speaks of: I think I would prefer to shaken out of it.
Well, he’s been smoking a bowl. Don’t judge him too harshly.
I hear these Big Sucking Sounds in California, Arizona, Nevada Florida?
Somebody Please..check their TOILETS ?
Dear Faster Pussy Cat Sell Sell,Ha now just your name makes me feel better!
I do web design for a real estate. I also do a web page for http://www.nick griffin.net will have to tell him about you.
Things are tuff in NYC not so bad in Bayside
but these guys have been in the biz 25 years so they are just knuckling down, many who can afford what they need are just scared by cnn’s OMG broadcasting.
The bowl he refers to is the USA and it’s plugged up permanently with all this crap.
In the septic tank of life, Wessels is just another vessel.
Nucular Wessels?
You are looking for alameda? Checkov
also from the article:
“John and Noreen Harrington, who are investors in CMR along with their eight children and other relatives, echoed Wassels support in the fund. The couple says they have “great faith in David’s personal integrity and leadership of this firm.”
“We believe that investors have to be patient and wait for the market to rebound,” said the Harringtons in a statement. ”
John and Noreen and their soon-to-be estranged relatives are going to have to wait a long time…
…in the meantime, Koolaid shooters for everyone!
….”The house, which its previous owner bought for $600,000, is listed for $190,000.”
Now we’re getting somewhere!
‘Buying a house is risky, but waiting is risky too’
‘The ratio of home prices to annual rents in the Los Angeles area was 20 as of March 31, meaning the median home sale price was 20 times a year’s rent for a comparable property, according to Moody’s Economy.com. The 15-year average ratio in Los Angeles is 16.4.’
Looks to me like LA landlords have been subsidizing renters for a good while. With all that’s happened, one would think the Times would step back from the kool-aid and think twice about encouraging people to stick their head into the bandsaw, but that’s just me…
Also, that “15 year average” of 16.4 includes years such as 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, etc.” I’d love to see the 10-year average from 1991-2000, or any time period that excludes the recent boom. Exclude the boom years, and that ratio should be a good bit lower.
My rent control agrees with you; I moved into my apartment in 1998. 20x my current annual rent would be $214,000. When I moved in it would have been $152,000.
Now that would be a pleasant median, hey?
“…buying is practically a sure bet when you would pay less for a monthly mortgage and other home costs than what it would cost to rent the home.”
OK, fine. Now show me one non-ghetto place in California where this is the pricing situation.
….what about liquidity & capital gains? interest rates were down on excess of liquidity…investors lived with lower returns plus the “expected” capital gain, now situation is exactly the opposite…
besides what about taxes, HOA’s , insurance, vacancy?
are those for free?
The sad thing is that it was still probably overpriced. I’d guess it was about 750 sq ft and a fixer.
Well, if it is a block from the surf, that sounds pretty good here in the Valley where the August sun blisters car paint.
O/T, Ben:
Another Spectrum story on the SoUtah housing market.
City foreclosure rate skyrockets (we’re number 1! in the State)
KATIE OLIVERI • koliveri@thespectrum.com • August 3, 2008
ST. GEORGE - A new report from RealtyTrac, a California firm that monitors foreclosures across the country, shows that one in every 226 households in Utah was in foreclosure during the second quarter of 2008. In the St. George metro area, the rate was one in every 87 households in foreclosure, the highest rate among the state’s metro areas.
http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080803/NEWS01/808030308/-1/CEDARCITY
Lori Chapman/ Washington County association of Realtor’s President is quoted in the article and she doesn’t disappoint:
“It’s a good buyer’s market now,” she said.
Due to local rents $190K in Seaside is awfully close to cashflowing and probably about as low as the sticker price will ever be. Yes it will probably be 500-800 sq. ft. and yes it will be cheap 1950s construction. Yes it will be in a working class area with bars on the windows and broken down cars in the street.
The more interesting topic for Monterey is what happens in the “nice areas.” Two years 400 sq. ft. cabins with street parking in Pacific Grove sold for $750K, and they are now listed at $500K. These rent for ~$2000 per month, so the implied value is more like $300K.
Monterey is odd. Montero with $2mil lots is going under, some lower end homes are in forclosure, but our middle seems to be holding. In my neighborhood two homes were listed and sold, one in 6 months [1.95] and one in 8 days [.9] both last week. On Bay Ridge a 2.2m home sold for cash in one day last week. Two of the buyers are from out of state, one moving back from Oregon. Things are slow, but not dead.
The market place is working. 35 offers on a 190k house in Seaside. Remember, ‘In the initial stages of a housing recession, sellers cling to the illusion about what their property is really worth’. Yes Sparky, the buyers set market value! hehehehehehe
….”The house, which its previous owner bought for $600,000, is listed for $190,000.”
This is another con the REIC is using to draw buyers back into the market:
1. List a house at the 2009 price.
2. Let ‘investors’ bid it up to the 2008 price.
3. Wire the world that the market is hot again because they received 35 offers on a single house.
I think it’s still a great time to rent.
“Business bankruptcies in San Diego County have doubled from a year ago as the housing downturn has depleted real estate companies’ assets. Real estate-related companies appear to represent the majority of the bankruptcies in San Diego, according to court records.”
Music, sweet music. While I don’t live in San Diego, or anywhere close for that matter, I’ve grown so tired of all of these realty companies popping up in the most choice locations. I’ll never forget when I recently returned to Truckee, CA after some 7 years of not seeing it. The old, quaint downtown area had been transformed into one giant real estate hub. OB’s was gone, Bar of America, gone- places I used to frequent as a young adult. Replaced by, you guessed it, realty and title companies. Apparently there have been some change in the laws there, though. Having realized that it was NOT in the best interests of local businesses and tourism as a whole, the aforementioned companies are only allowed to operate on the second floor, or something along those lines. Good riddance.
Oh man, OB’s and Bar of America are gone? That used to be a pretty cool place to just hang out and hear music.
“The cutbacks have already started. Californians - spooked by negative economic news and the
tenshundreds of billions of dollars they’ve lost to rising gas prices and disappearing home equity - are ratcheting down their spending. It’s true even for those who’ve avoided foreclosure or a pink slip.”Yeah, that should really do wonders for the economy.
Another strike for the deflationistas.
Put that in your academic pipe, and smoke that, Bernanke.
Even Chairman Mao Zandi at the Peoples Republic of Moodys puts it at $1.3 trillion in CA. And that’s just houses.
Wait, I got my nicknames mixed up. It’s Ho Chi Zandi. Chairman Bill Gross is at the Peoples Republic of Pimco. I wonder if he’ll be at the olympics?
Well it’s the 8th hour of the 8th day of the 8th month.
They’re hoping to get lucky, and not just that way, all you sick minds out there.
Yep. A fast goat and a raging hard-on are a troublesome combination.
That’s what I’ve heard.
Hmm… Margaret & Gary Smith from Pomona college. That rings a bell. (runs quick google search)
Here’s what Mr. & Mrs. Smith were saying circa 2006:
No Housing Bubble Found in 9 of 10 Urban Markets, According to New Pomona College Study
He writes textbooks on the side and she is a CFP…Holy crap Batman!
I’ll make sure my kid never reads one of his textbooks and steer anyone away from her financial planning services.
socalserf,
Thanks for that classic article from the past. My favorite comment was:
“Perhaps housing prices were too low in the past and recent prices have brought market prices more in line with fundamentals,” they write.”
House prices were always too low and the Bubble just brought prices in line with the fundamentals…. man, that is the best excuse yet!!
Gross reminds me of the Pol Pot of Pimpco. He goes for focused destruction.
“I wonder if he’ll be at the olympics?”
Probably not. I believe he has been disqualfied for using performance enhancing drugs!
Just in case anyone needs a primer on elementary maths, $1.3 trillion is equal to 13 hundred billion dollars. So I was not exaggerating when I said “hundreds of billions.” And I believe this estimate will prove to be far below the ultimate actual figure for Californian real estate losses.
Well, all that money never really existed anyway, so can we really call it a loss?
(I’m kidding. The “imaginary” money “bought” a lot of actual material goods.)
“They said, however, the new law appears to fall far short of the economic rescue many were seeking. ‘It’s a lot of political hogwash and rhetoric for election-year purposes only,’ Murphy said. ‘It won’t really help anybody and will probably hurt people, especially around here.’”
This is one time I’m grateful for broken political promises and empty rhetoric.
So, 90% of their loans were with DPA, and without, the borrowers would have not qualified?
How do you short the FHA?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,390241,00.html
The contrast between Ron Paul’s principled and well-reasoned opposition to a housing bailout, versus the craven pandering to FBs and the REIC by the likes of Obama, McCain, and Bush, couldn’t be clearer.
Carly Fiorina was on TV this morning, stating McCain’s economic position. I wanted to break the f—ing TV set. She is just another mindless drone. And that is what McC has advising him. Pathetic!
Well, if she does for McCain what she did for HP…
McCain will do for McCain what Carly did for HP.
An open air regional mall in Elk Grove.
My sister and her family live in Elk Grove. Summers can get quite hot.
Why would anyone want to shop outside in hot weather?
“The falling real estate market has been doubly burdensome for Meredith Wharton, a Folsom real estate agent. Not only is she ‘working twice as hard for half the reward,’ she and her husband, Mark, have had to adjust to the decline in their own home equity.”
Finally a very silver lining.
‘working twice as hard for half the reward’
Just another statistic returning to the mean, Meredith. You didn’t really think you could continue doing half the work for twice the reward indefinitely, did you?
Amazing how bubble results get taken for granted as the norm…
“‘Buying a house is risky, but waiting is risky too,’ Gary Smith said.”
So what happens if I lose my job and have to move somewhere else for another job? how do I sell my negative house instead of just giving 30 days notice? Hmmmm 2 economists and they can’t even fathom such action…..
I don’t plan to ever buy again. I have looked at the real estate game and I say, “no thank you”. And I don’t feel any risk in my position. F-ck Gary Smith and everybody that looks like him.
“I don’t plan to ever buy again. I have looked at the real estate game and I say, “no thank you”. And I don’t feel any risk in my position. F-ck Gary Smith and everybody that looks like him.”
I’d rather rent forever than do business with people like that.
“I don’t plan to ever buy again. I have looked at the real estate game and I say, “no thank you”. And I don’t feel any risk in my position. F-ck Gary Smith and everybody that looks like him.”
I love New York!!
And I am beginning to feel the same way.
“‘They raised the amount of down payment needed for the FHA loans from 3 percent to 3.5 percent and the down payment assistance through nonprofit organizations, goes away,’ Murphy said. ‘Ninety percent of the loans we’ve done this year have been through these programs. So, those people wouldn’t be able to buy a home now.’”
So, still underwriting loans to people who shouldn’t be buying a house? It’s just unbelievable.
Californians are truly addicted to cheap, easy credit.
90 percent? ninety? get down payment assistance.
Your clients don’t save any money. I wouldn’t lend them a nickel. They are clearly irresponsible.
A 350,000 loan with 10-12k down is unmanageable??
Stop lending to these people NOW.
As someone who had a $300K mortgage, with 20% down, 17 years ago on my now paid-up house, I am sickened by this attitude that the guv’ment should be standing behind programs to make homes “affordable” by encouraging people NOT to save money!
And, no, we weren’t rolling in money back then! We rented a small apartment and saved, saved, saved. (As we still do!)
These DPA programs are funded by the homebuilders to prop up the prices of houses. Home prices wouldn’t be so unreasonable if people had to put down 10%
“‘They raised the amount of down payment needed for the FHA loans from 3 percent to 3.5 percent and the down payment assistance through nonprofit organizations, goes away,’ Murphy said. ‘Ninety percent of the loans we’ve done this year have been through these programs. So, those people wouldn’t be able to buy a home now.’”
Some of those down payment assistance arrangements looked like warmed over cash back at closing fraud schemes with buyers overpaying in return for the down payment “assistance”. Good riddance.
Damn right they were cash-back fraud schemes .
“‘Stop fixating on short-term price moves; think about long-term rent savings,’ Gary Smith said”
BTW this is the same two people that did a study justifing prices 2 years ago. Anyone else recall that? They were saying that prices (peak year) were unlikely to go below 10%. These turkeys are pissed because they were wrong then and still wrong today.
“These turkeys are pissed because they were wrong then and still wrong today.”
Doubly pissed as they bought a very expensive craftsman house in Claremont, as I recall. (I remember because Gary was my macro prof in college. Nice guy, but clearly missed the big picture here.)
Nice guys don’t encourage economic suicide. Fools do!
A nice guy who drank the kool-aid.
“Tim Einer, a software trainer in Lincoln, considers himself upper middle class but has seen his home equity fall by $225,000. He traded his Jaguar for a fuel-efficient Chevy, scrapped a European vacation and stocks up at Target whenever possible.”
What the hell is “upper middle class” anyway?
If he was truly anything near “upper class” he wouldn’t be worrying about any loss in imaginary home equity loss, he’d be looking at the very real 12% loss of his investment portfolio over the past year. (The amount that the S&P 500 was decreased.)
I can’t imagine anyone being considered “upper middle class” without at least $1M in liquid assets these days. So that’s a $120,000 loss over the past year for a portfolio invested in a broad-market fund.
If he’s grousing about loss of imagined home equity, he can’t possibly have a substantial amount of $$$ saved up. My bet is your typical homeless person with a net worth of $0 has more money that this self-proclaimed “upper middle class” guy.
And that’s part of the problem! People who were actually broke thought of themselves as “upper middle class” (whatever that means) and had this sense of entitlement.
“Us upper lower middle-class types”
- Homer Simpson
I think we would all be much better off if we didn’t worry about what categorization of class would best describe us. Worrying about working hard, paying bills and saving is so much more productive than worrying about some silly label people may place on us.
Too bad we seldom value the really important things in life like honesty, integrity and hard work above the possession money. I have seen a lot of people with a lot of money that have absolutely no class. This city is filled with such people. And I have seen people with the most modest of means and they possess a level of class that no amount of gold or silver could ever buy. Anybody that worries about how they are labeled is usually not worth much in the first place.
so true!
Amen!
Just experienced the high income no class thing today.
You do realize that by your measure ( $1 million liquid net worth) you’
ve reduced the “Upper Middle Class” down to about 3% of the population:
“At the end of 1999 there were 2.8 million Americans with $1 million in investable assets (meaning the value of their homes is not included among those assets). These are high-net-worth individuals (HNWI).”
Something tells me there are a lot more people with 1 million dollar houses and boats than there is in the net worth group. And that’s a shame.
Top 3%? That sounds about right.
Um, 2.8 million people is not 3% of the population. It’s less than 1%, the US is over 300 million people now.
There’s yer “trickle-down” economics for ya.
“He said he doesn’t regret buying his new home despite the sudden $93,000 drop in value, and he’s certainly glad he applied for a reassessment. ‘It took a lot of legwork, but the payoff is worth it,’ he said. ‘If I don’t do this, I’m basically throwing this (money) away.’”
OMG. This yo-yo “doesn’t regret” his home value has dropped $93K, but instead is happy about saving roughly $1.2K a year in property taxes to avoid “throwing money away.”
And on the subject of FHA down payment requirements going to 3.5%, someone would need a pretty big income to QUALIFY for carrying 96.5% of the purchase price + interest, especially here in CA. No wonder so few wannabe homeowners will be helped by the bailout.
“OMG. This yo-yo “doesn’t regret” his home value has dropped $93K, but instead is happy about saving roughly $1.2K a year in property taxes to avoid “throwing money away.”
Who wants to be the first to break the news to him that he “threw” 93 grand away? Let’s draw straws.
BUT..
“The relief is only temporary. When the housing market starts to rise again, the assessor can raise the assessed value back to its original level and tack on up to an additional 2 percent for each year, as if the reduction had never taken place. ”
Even though their house will NEVER go back to their initial purchase price, they are still screwed if it did.
“‘I have worries all the time - you just see how the economy is,’ Einer said. ‘I don’t think any of us are guaranteed anything anymore.’”
Guarantees? You want guarantees? Where is Gary “15% in the bag” Watts around when you need him to help assure the populace?
I think he’s in the bag.
Is this the kind of bag that is connected to a cement block and usually found at the bottom of the east river?
“In California, ‘equity extractions’ - the volume of cash homeowners generate through refinancing, home equity loans or outright sales - fell 20 percent last year, according to DataQuick.”
“That’s a loss of $25 billion, or nearly 2 percent of the state’s output - a figure economists regard as significant. Equity extractions fell 44 percent the first four months of this year, pulling an additional $15 billion out of the economy.”
I can see all these years my economic education has been sorely lacking.
Since when was equity extraction(dire debt) supposed to be the engine that drives the economy. Two percent ($25B) is probably going to be on the short side as those refi’s were generated in the housing industry and RE and now with implosion in both things are going to get uglier here.
That just made my day: falling equity extraction pulls billions out of CA economy. A visual oxymoron.
That’s Gross Domestic Product you’re talking about there!
I’m not kidding. The economic activity generated by cashing out “home equity” counted as GDP.
Poof. Hallucinated money = hallucinated “prosperity.”
This is my response regarding the brokers statements about the housing bill not helping much .
If the intent of the bill was to help homeowners stay in their property ,
I think that the bill would be some assistance to some people . Here if someone really wanted to stay in their home they get the principal balance reduced to almost market (if the lender agrees ),they get a fixed rate note,which under normal conditions they would never qualify for that.
The only thing that the FB has to agree to is giving back half the profit, if any ,if they sell ,and they can’t take out a equity refinance for 5 years .
The borrowers don’t get a tarnished credit report ,(i would assume ,at least not a foreclosure on their record),and they could avoid recourse from the lender,depending on what State they bought the house in .I don’t see how this bill wouldn’t help someone who seriously wanted to keep their home who was not able to pay the higher payments of the toxic adjustable who was upside down in equity . Now I understand that the lender would have to agree to it ,but I thought the purpose of the bill was to save people who could not refinance because of the sudden dip in the market who where on toxic adjustable loans .
The loan amount was raised in California ,so I can’t see why that wouldn’t be a benefit for higher priced States .
My point is what does the REIC want ,for speculators and people making 10 dollars a hour ,who bought 500k home ,to be bailed out also ? I think a number of lenders will be willing to do it ,but the question will be how many borrowers really want a house in a declining market ,or at least in a market that isn’t appreciating ?
The REIC keeps on wanting the conditions of the easy money /low down
situation that helped put unqualified people into homes . Haven’t they learned that easy money just creates foreclosures in the final analysis . Any attempts on the governments part to keep a bogus bubble from going back to what prices should of been at not going to work even if it might be dragged out a little longer ,IMHO.
From what I have read so far, I don’t have a huge problem with the housing bailout bill. I think there were a lot of very, very good people across the country that were screwed over during this mess.
The realtors were against them.
The Mortgage brokers were against them.
The Bankers including the Fed were against them.
The Appraisers were against them.
The developers were against them.
And for most people their entire family and support group were against them.
I can’t entirely fault people for making a bad decision about purchasing a home in many parts of the country, if they were truly planning on living in the home. There was a massive conspiracy aimed at them to push them into a bad decision. I would think that even many on this board at one time or another had to second guess themselves about missing the boat during the bubble.
I am thankful that I am a bit smarter than the average person, but I don’t think it is right to enjoy their destruction when they really, really were convinced they were doing the right thing.
Now greedy speculators, can choke on their greed.
Ah yes, but lots of people who bought houses looked down on those of us who did not. They treated us as lesser beings. Of course, you can claim that they are not my friends. And, you are right. But, they are the parents of my children’s peers. And the attitude is still universal here on Long Island. My job is here so I can’t leave.
I would love to see these smug types burned.
But,my point is that the Bill would actually help a person who might really be a stuck borrower on a toxic high rated adjustable ,in that it gives them a opportunity to get a fixed rate note and only pay back principal that was crammed down if the market goes back up again . I’m not saying that I’m in favor of any kind of bail-outs or the can of worms that it causes ,but I can’t see how this Broker can be complaining ,and it seem like he just wants a total free bail-out or a easy money market again ,like between 2001-2007.
I hope the government is not stupid enough to try to return to
those easy money days of lending that got us into this mess ,and I still think the down payments are not high enough .
“There were lots of people against them”
What a load of crap. Why can’t we come to terms with the fact that we, as a group, largely drove this bubble ourselves? Why do we have to keep pointing at the government and the banks and everybody else ?
Because the real estate industry and the loan industry had a duty to be professional and not promote fraud or faulty lending and blackmail appraisers The sheep were sold a line of lies and myths by a industry that were not only responsible to protect the public but protect the housing industry . The builders were corrupt with their deals with loan originators . It is never acceptable for people in the industry to encourage unqualified buyers to go on loans .
The real estate people did nothing to discourage people being led
down a fraudulent path by the loan originators . They were the set up artist by showing these people property they couldn’t afford and selling them on future appreciating and bogus toxic loans . So many of the market makers went looking for dummies to lead down the path .
While its true that the industry played on fear or greed of the sheep ,still it’s not the way your suppose to sell homes . The borrowers that committed fraud or took on to much home for their budget bear some of the blame also . It was a team effort
and there is a lot of blame to go around .I could write a big long list of what the REIC did ,and I just might do that ,and it’s not pretty or acceptable .
KenWPA…….Yes I agree that there are some people who were just buying a home and they were conned into going on a unsuitable loan .
These people qualified for the loan but were stuck regarding refinancing into a better note . The loan industry should not of promised them that they could refinance . I just don’t see why they should give any break to borrowers that inflated their income by 100% or so to get the loan because that’s rewarding fraud . I mean I hope they screen these borrowers to make sure they are the ones that were just mislead and not speculators or something criminal .
I am suspicious of the system still being corrupt and the REIC gaming the system again on these Housing Bill bail outs . I don’t know how any secondary market lender can trust that industry ,as a whole ,because there are just to many bad apples in it these
days .
“‘Stop fixating on short-term price moves; think about long-term rent savings,’ Gary Smith said.”
“If someone delays buying a house that would produce rent savings to hold out for a better price, the delay would mean losing those savings — and the loss could be compounded if prices went up instead.”
“‘Buying a house is risky, but waiting is risky too,’ Gary Smith said.”
What utter rubbish. How long would I have to rent to save $100K in depreciating home equity Mr. Smith?
What about all the expenses of owning a home Mr. Smith? What about the never ending and increasing property tax Mr. Smith?
What about the fact thats MOST older people sell their homes and end up either downsizing or going back to renting in their later years Mr. Smith?
I think the only thing risky here is listening to your mouth spewing fecal waste.