We Will Never Ever See Those Numbers Again
The Rocky Mountain News reports from Colorado. “In the first seven months of the year, buyers bought $7.36 billion in homes sold by Realtors in the Denver area, about a $1.3 billion drop from the $8.7 billion sold during the same period in 2007. And last month, the median, or middle, price of a home sold in the metro area hit a six-year low of $229,200 for a July report, a 10.1 percent drop from July 2007. The average price of a condo was $169,474, down from $192,685 in July 2007.”
“Housing consultant S. Robert August blamed the record home foreclosures for the tumbling prices. ‘You have homes that sold for $190,000 a few years ago, now selling for $120,000,’ August said.”
The Daily Camera from Colorado. “A report released Wednesday showed that foreclosures continued to climb in Colorado during the first half of 2008. During the first six months of the year, the number of foreclosure filings increased 16 percent from the same period last year, according to a report from the Department of Local Affairs’ Colorado Division of Housing.”
“Broomfield County could be seeing increases in filings as defaults are starting to affect higher-priced homes, said Barbara Walker, executive director of Independent Bankers of Colorado. While most foreclosures have hit homes in the $150,000 to $250,000 range, in some cases, she said, that range is climbing to houses priced at $300,000 to $350,000.”
“‘I think it shows the continuing depth of our economic woes starting to penetrate into more strata of our population,’ she said. ‘Douglas County clearly represents that, and Broomfield is like Douglas County in that regard.’”
The Daily Herald from Utah. “For nearly a year, a stately red brick mansion at 515 Sheffield Drive in Vintage On the River, a subdivision in the affluent Riverbottoms area in Provo, has remained vacant, its yellowing front lawn in stark contrast to the manicured, verdant lawns of neighboring luxury homes.”
“This home, one of five properties that federal investigators say were subject to an illegal property flipping scheme in 2006, is among an estimated 20 Riverbottoms properties blighting an area hard-hit by the housing downturn, an ongoing credit crunch and a glut of luxury housing inventory in Utah County.”
“‘When you put a housing downcycle hand in hand with mortgage fraud, it pulls the market down faster and farther,’ said Mark Steinagel, director of the Utah Real Estate Division.”
“‘When people like Kitchen drive up property prices to pull money out, and then let the properties go into foreclosure, that’s damaging,’ he said. ‘The buyer may end up owing more on the home if he obtained a loan based on inflated appraisals from fraudulent sales. And if the home loses 10 percent to 20 percent of its value in a downturn like the one affecting states like California and Nevada, these people may become upside-down on their loans.’”
“‘People wanting to sell in such an environment may have difficulty selling because they can’t find a buyer, and even if they do find one, some lenders won’t let them sell for less than they owe,’ he said.”
The Salt Lake Tribune from Utah. “It’s Parade of Homes season, and builders once again are showcasing their best - and oftentimes most expensive - residential master- pieces.”
“Behind the glamour and glitz of this year’s pricey mansions, though, lies a downturn that has led to plummeting home sales and declining prices. A number of builders are nearly certain to struggle to get their showpieces sold at a price with which they are comfortable.”
“Ivory Homes, for example, is selling a ‘2007 Parade of Homes award winning model home’ in Draper for $990,000. ‘Was $1,190,000!’ reads an online advertisement for the property.”
“‘I look through the [Parade of Homes] magazine and chuckle,” said Michael Landrum of Big Brother Construction in Layton. ‘There’s some $3 and $4 million Parade homes for sale, and I’m thinking how on earth are they going to sell them, unless they have a line on NBA basketball players or executives coming to town.’”
The Spectrum from Utah. “A new report from RealtyTrac says the St. George area saw foreclsoure filings jump 446 percent year-over-year and 56 percent from the first quarter of 2008 to the second quarter.”
“The foreclosure rate in Washington County doesn’t surprise Lecia Langston, regional economist with the Utah Department of Workforce Services. During the building and buying boom that lasted from about 2004 to 2006, prices of homes got ‘out of control and created a bubble market in the housing market,’ she said.”
“As far as a solution, Langston said, it’s just ‘going to take time’ and will strain people who may not be able to pay for their homes or who bought on speculation and weren’t able to flip their investments. Langston also said many people are ‘upside down’ in their homes. ‘It makes it really difficult to sell,’ she said.”
“For those who are trying to sell homes, real estate appraiser Tom Forsythe said the foreclosure market shouldn’t make it more difficult for anyone to sell their home. ‘All it does is it makes it impossible for them to sell their home for the inflated imaginary price they believe it’s worth,’ he said.”
The Yuma Sun from Arizona. “Despite a nationwide housing slump, Yuma County’s market has remained healthy, although sellers may not be getting their original asking prices, say local Realtors.”
“Carol Engler of Realty Executives states that greed was the root of the housing bubble of 2004 and 2005 and that now ‘we are reaping what we sow.’ Regarding the inflated prices of that period, Engler says, ‘We will never ever see those numbers again.’”
“She says that buyers, though more willing than in recent years, are also waiting to see when and where prices will hit their absolute bottom. According to Engler, ‘Every one of them wants a steal’ and is willing to wait for the seller’s bottom line.”
The Arizona Republic. “Gloria Pettis says she chose the Toll Brothers at Litchfield Park community because it was love at first sight. Gloria and her husband are among the first occupants of the new luxury-housing community nestled on the last land parcel available for single-family residential development in Litchfield Park. Baseline prices range from the mid-$400,000s to the upper-$500,000s.”
“The Pettises were on the highway to Phoenix after having packed their belongings in Seattle, where they had lived for 15 years, when they passed a billboard advertising the Toll Brothers community. They had planned to spend weeks researching various neighborhoods before they bought a home, but after viewing the models at Toll Brothers at Litchfield Park, they were sold.”
“‘We’re normally very contemplative people,’ Gloria said. ‘We can’t believe we did this.’”
The Review Journal from Nevada. “Home sales in Las Vegas increased for the seventh straight month to 2,592 in July, the most since September 2005, and inventory remained stable at 23,423 units, the Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors reported Thursday.”
“Housing market statistics are a ‘mixed bag,’ association president Patty Kelley said. While it’s painful to watch home prices slide, large chunks of foreclosures are being taken out of the inventory each month, she said.”
“‘Until we get rid of foreclosures, prices are going to keep on dropping,’ Kelley said. ‘I don’t know how things are selling if it’s not a foreclosure.’”
“Robin Camacho of American Realty & Property Management found 74 percent of MLS sales in July were foreclosures and another 9 percent were short sales. ‘Chances of selling your own home in this market are very, very slim,’ she said.”
“Camacho’s research showed 40 percent to 50 percent of listings as short sales, yet only one in five escrow closings was a short sale.”
“Southern Nevada had 1,266 new foreclosures in July, or 41 a day, Applied Analysis reported. That’s up 61.9 percent from 782 in the same month a year ago.”
“For the past 12 months, foreclosures reached a record 13,548 homes, nearly double the figure reported for the 12 months ended July 2007. The number of preforeclosures, or those in the foreclosure process, also remained high at 5,175 units.”
“The vast majority of subprime adjustable-rate mortgages were originated in 2005 and tended to be two years to three years in length, sales director Mark Carrington of First American Core Logic said.”
“‘So right now, we’re definitely feeling the peak in all of those subprime ARM resets,’ Carrington said. ‘It’s safe to say as long as housing is in this depreciation path, when some of these loans reset, some are not going to be able to refinance and some are going to go bad.’”
“What seems to be coming next is prime loans going to foreclosure, which increased from 0.4 percent last year to 1.8 percent this year, he said. ‘We’re starting to see a ramp-up of prime foreclosures in our analysis,’ he said.”
“California, Florida, Arizona and Nevada combined represent 62 percent of all foreclosures on prime loans and nearly half of all subprime ARM foreclosures started in the first quarter, the Mortgage Bankers Association reported.”
“Las Vegas has roughly 5,000 homes a month headed for foreclosure and isn’t even close to getting out of the forest, using California as a bellwether.”
“‘What’s after the 5,000?’ Bob Reeve of Realty One Group in Las Vegas said. ‘Will we be past the ARMs? I see stability once we get past the loans that are either going to reset … owners suck up the higher payments or they walk.’”
The Globest.com on Nevada. “The vacant land market in Las Vegas experienced record low sales volume and declining values in the second quarter of the year, according to Applied Analysis. Approximately 223.2 acres were sold during the quarter, which is down 58% from mid-year 2007 and down 11% from March 2008.”
“”Speculative land sales have come to a near standstill,’ says Applied Analysis principal Brian Gordon. ‘This overall slowdown has come at a price, as average land pricing has declined to levels witnessed three years ago.’”
“‘Land pricing trends are following a clear path paved by falling housing prices and rising commercial vacancies,’ concludes Gordon’s partner Jeremy Aguero. ‘Continued corrections are likely to prevail as land owner equity has diminished significantly and collateralized properties have financiers responding cautiously.’”
“The average price per acre-excluding premium-priced resort properties-came in at $570,300, a 20% decline from mid-year 2007 and a 4.8% decline from March 2008, and is expected to continue.”
The Las Vegas Business Press from Nevada. “Lewis Operating Corp. bought nearly 700 acres of commercial and residential land in Nevada and California for $57 million, or $81,428 per acre, from various sellers.”
“It most notably picked-up 507 raw and improved residential lots totaling 90 acres at Walnut and Tropical avenues in North Las Vegas from Standard Pacific Corp.”
“‘We aren’t looking to get back into the housing market,’ said Robert E. Lewis, company president. Lewis Homes had built more than 25,000 residences in Nevada before selling to Kaufman and Broad (now KB Home) in 1999. ‘We may sell the lots,’ Lewis said. ‘We’re not sure what we will do. But these came to us at favorable price. It seemed like a good opportunity.’”
The Las Vegas Sun from Nevada. “Early last week, as he prepared to move back to California, Steve Saltzman sold a competitor what was left of his once thriving enterprise - at a going-out-of-business price.”
“Seven years ago Saltzman had come to the valley at just the right time. The housing market was booming, and he hit on the idea of packaging sets of cardboard boxes with tape, a tape gun and a marker, then selling them for $55 each to real estate agents who gave them to clients after a home sale.”
“‘I was selling 100 to 150 a week,’ Saltzman said, then laughed at the recollection of how much money had once been rolling in. ‘It was a great business.’”
“But now, he added, fewer people are moving here and many fewer are buying homes. ‘I can’t make it selling 20 of these a week,’ he said.”
“May was the first month in 12 years that fewer than 5,000 people traded in driver’s licenses from elsewhere for Nevada licenses in Clark County, according to Keith Schwer, at UNLV, who has kept tabs on population growth for years.”
“The May total of 4,612 is also nearly 23 percent less than the figure for the same month of 2007, the largest such decline since at least as far back as January 2005.”
“In short, the May figure was ‘abysmally low,’ said Jeremy Aguero, principal of Applied Analysis.”
“The manager of the company that bought Saltzman’s inventory, said she has seen a shift since about the end of April. ‘It seems like a lot fewer people are coming into Las Vegas in just the last three months, and a lot more are going out,’ Savannah Frascella said.”
“In 2007, 61 percent of the people who used U-Haul to move into Nevada came from California (56 percent of those who moved out of Nevada went to California.) In the first five months of 2008, the percentages were almost the same, 61 percent of those migrating to Nevada came from California and 60 percent of those moving out of Nevada went to California.”
“Saltzman was counting down the hours until he joined the latter category. As he finished dismantling his little cardboard empire, he took consolation in no longer being tethered to the valley. ‘Just one more day, and I’m back in Orange County,’ he said.”
“The Meridian Luxury Suites condo development has taken another step toward restarting its hotel operation, which was shut down by the county last month. The Clark County Planning Commission approved a tentative map of the 671-unit site, but some owners say final approval of a conversion into a condo resort might not come in time to save them from foreclosure.”
“Meridian owner Dan Somers said 100 employees had been laid off because of the hotel operation’s closure, and 1,000 reservations had been cancelled. The delay could cost owners $18,000 per unit, and some investors have multiple units, Somers said.”
“The Meridian is 98 percent investor owned with 14 owner-occupied units, said Michael Mackenzie, president of the Meridian Private Residences Homeowners Association.”
“One resident-owner, Kathleen Mannix, who paid for her unit in full, is a focal point of anger for other owners who question her motives. ‘She said, ‘Buy me out for $600,000 for my unit,’ and she only paid $300,000,’ Mackenzie said.”
“The resident-owner said she later dropped her buy-out price to closer to $300,000 but Mackenzie only offered to pay her half that amount. Mannix said she also ‘promised’ to report what she claimed were illegalities on the part of the HOA and management.
“‘I promised to stop them if they wouldn’t let me leave,’ Mannix said. ‘If I wanted to live in a hotel, I would have bought into a hotel.’”
“Some owner-investors traveled from California and Chicago to ask the planners to expedite approval. Investor owner Ferri Wolf, a retired San Diego doctor, said Wednesday she is losing $5,000 a month on her unit and might have to go into foreclosure as soon as October because of the hotel shutdown. She said the county is losing out, too.”
“‘If (the units) are foreclosed on, what will happen to the tax money? We were housing people and making money,’ Wolf said.”
‘While most foreclosures have hit homes in the $150,000 to $250,000 range, in some cases, she said, that range is climbing to houses priced at $300,000 to $350,000.’
For those who say no bubble in Colorado, these prices sure look high to me.
Those prices are absurdly high for incomes in most parts of the US. Especially when they were counting on those incomes for 30 years.
There are no incomes like that.
Of course, these folks never planned to pay it back so it’s all good. That still smells like deflation to me.
Haven’t seen much about Reno/NNV lately; I would imagine not so great housing market these days.
“For those who are trying to sell homes, real estate appraiser Tom Forsythe said the foreclosure market shouldn’t make it more difficult for anyone to sell their home. ‘All it does is it makes it impossible for them to sell their home for the inflated imaginary price they believe it’s worth,’ he said.”
A beautiful summation. I’ve occasionally tried to convince neighbors who want to move that it’s not a bad time to sell, just because they missed cashing in at the peak. Today’s price will be better than next year’s price, or even 5 years from now if you adjust for expenses, inflation, and opportunity loss.
If you’re in a theatre, and someone yells “Fire!”, and you can smell smoke, you can see flames, and you’re near an exit — you might want to think about getting out of your seat.
‘…Big Brother Construction in Layton…’
And that name, chillens, is the PERFECT name for a construction company based in Utarr. (having grown up there, I would know.)
‘… In the first five months of 2008, the percentages were almost the same, 61 percent of those migrating to Nevada came from California and 60 percent of those moving out of Nevada went to California.”
“Saltzman was counting down the hours until he joined the latter category. As he finished dismantling his little cardboard empire, he took consolation in no longer being tethered to the valley. ‘Just one more day, and I’m back in Orange County,’ he said.”
I take consolation from the fact that all these shuffling hordes of mouthbreathers are shuttling betwixt two states I don’t live in, which I don’t because they are hot, over-crowded, and stinky states.
Remember, everyone, Washington is just horrible. The entire PNW is just horrible. It rains allllll the time, and everyone’s pale and wears pita-bread shoes and has moss growing on their bikes, and Bigfoot lives here and he cheats at cards, and all sorts of other terrible stuff. Spread the word!
I can recall borrowing some moving boxes from a neighbor. (This lady was forever announcing plans to get the eff out of Tucson, but she could never get around to doing so.)
I can also recall stockpiling my own collection of boxes. The thought of getting them from my real estate agent wouldn’t have occurred to me.
With 74% of LV “sales” foreclosures, another 9% ( the Lucky Ones ) being short sales and 5,000 new or nearly new homes going into foreclosure a month it’s easy to point the finger and say “See? I told Las Vegas was a bad place filled with bad people!”
Well given a majority of the speculation was from CA ( and likely L.A at that ) is this a reflection of LV or really more that of SoCal greed? Just wonderin’?
Well, opportunity knocks everywhere, so he answered.
However, I am with you. Gotten all my boxes used, and from backs of stores etc. Freeeeeee. But if there are any movers on this blog, just remember, if you go to a moving box store, not the fancy name brand ones, the others in old industrial areas, sell Used boxes for much much less, ones with four folding sides/tops.
Yrs ago that was my find. And they sell bubble wrap for far cheaper than Big Box stores..
Amen!
No need to move here, anybody. Just move along, nothing to see here…
I wonder if he also sold his deadbeat accounts…
From the original post:
“The Pettises were on the highway to Phoenix after having packed their belongings in Seattle, where they had lived for 15 years, when they passed a billboard advertising the Toll Brothers community. They had planned to spend weeks researching various neighborhoods before they bought a home, but after viewing the models at Toll Brothers at Litchfield Park, they were sold.”
“‘We’re normally very contemplative people,’ Gloria said. ‘We can’t believe we did this.’”
After they’ve lived in a Toll Bros. home for a few years, they’ll be incredulous at their decision.
Reason: Toll homes are guaranteed for five years. Then they fall apart.
on the highway to Phoenix after having packed their belongings in Seattle….researching various neighborhoods before they bought a home
That must have been some bet.
“After they’ve lived in a Toll Bros. home for a few years, they’ll be incredulous at their decision. ”
Agreed! Renting a Toll condo and evidently sloppy paint jobs, wall and trim out-of-square, crooked mirrors/medicine cabinets, etc. constitute “luxury.”
Toll produces the same pieces of $hit that all the other big builders do. The only thin upscale about their units is that they perhaps use more expensive fixtures. We have a great deal on the place, so I can’t complain, but I sure would not want to own one! Walk around the outside of the building and you will quickly run out of fingers when counting obvious construction flaws.
These folks from Seattle are complete tools. I suggest they keep the customer service rep’s phone number on speed dial. The unit we live in had the living room ceiling collapse before we moved in. Turns out the upstairs unit’s kitchen plumbing wasn’t properly secured!
I rented a Toll SFH In NoVa
what a crap box
I came away from that experiance SO grateful that I DIDN’T own that POS
Dish Networks intstaller told us he’d been putting dishes on roofs for 10 years
Never thought he’d fall thru the roof like he did on our rented Toll Bros House!!!
“and he hit on the idea of packaging sets of cardboard boxes with tape, a tape gun and a marker, then selling them for $55 each”
Now -there’s- a guy with a guaranteed seat on the Golgafrincham B-Ark.
More practical than a gift basket with jelly jars only big enough to make 1 and 1/2 sandwhiches?
Just give me the darn jelly jar and skip the basket.
Nice reference! But in all honesty, if you can sell that amount of shite for 55 bucks, you’ve got a silver tongue, my friend. He certainly would not have been one of our ancestors.
That dude will be on his feet and hawking something else soon.
Steve W,
I tend to agree but at the same time it’s another sign of HB excess. Realtors were feelin’ good about themselves and after all they’d just raked in 6% for doing basically nothing so I imagine everyone was feeling pretty generous.
When you think about it, it’s almost insulting. Tell ya’ what, reduce your fluffed up commission by ____ and buy my own damn cardboard boxes! He was moving ‘how many’ a week?
I can’t believe this was an actual “business”. Never mind that a “competitor” bought him out. WTF?
Even better: he can’t “get by” on close to a grand a week. Poor fellow.
Well not and feed slot machines?
I can’t believe this was an actual “business”. Never mind that a “competitor” bought him out. WTF?
No one’s probably going to read this, but… I saw this in Costco a week or so ago. It’s from U-Haul, I think, a big bundle of cardboard boxes, bubble-wrap and dish-sleeves. A huge package of moving stuff, priced about $50.
I went to Utah’s parade of holes last year. The entire block was parade homes, and they were all Tuscan-themed. WTF is up with the Tuscan obsession here? It’s going to be the thing we remember about 2007 homebuilding, like puke green and pumpkin orange Brady Bunch era homes marked the 70’s.
I don’t know which was my favorite comment: the one where the guy said “It’s different over 2 million” or the one where the Riverbottoms guy said “Eek! These might drop 10% - 20% in value” under the guise of pessimism.
I went to high school a couple blocks from the Riverbottoms (yes, with the Osmond kids who I will concede were weirdly unassuming and sweet but whatever). I didn’t get it. The whole point of being rich is having the ability to run at warp speed from Provo and not live one Willow tree west of Will’s Pit Stop. But I live in Sugarhouse with the zero-scaping LIBS (ew!), so what do I know?
Parade of holes? Sort of like what a gopher would do?
Man, I totally agree. The whole stainless steel, Viking oven, Sub-Zero fridge, fake stucco BS is going to look as stupid in 30 years as the “harvest gold” and “avocado green” stuff looks now.
What a dolt.
Bashing again, I see. Being someone who is moderate/progressive, you can call me or others all the names you want, but it always comes back to, you don’t know what you are talking about. I do not want a housing bailout, nor do I want the banks to get bailed out for being the idiots they are/became.
So, just be careful, there are alot of numskull repub dolts that want this program and frankly they have the most radio/tv stations to proclaim their heirarcheal status.Went to your link. sheesh.
GEE< guess that “freedom of speech” thing is working for ya. Geee who wanted that? Oh yea, Progressives a long long time ago.
“This home, one of five properties that federal investigators say were subject to an illegal property flipping scheme in 2006, is among an estimated 20 Riverbottoms properties blighting an area hard-hit by the housing downturn, an ongoing credit crunch and a glut of luxury housing inventory in Utah County.”
I suspect these Riverbottom homes might generally be underwater (snark!).
At the top of the bubble, homes in Cedar City, UT and homes in 93552 Palmdale, CA were both priced at a median of $375K. At work we sometimes got a chuckle out of how outlandish the prices were out there in the middle of nowhere. At least Palmdale is within a 1 hour commute of some significant job centers.
Today? Well, wishing prices in the Palmdale zip are down to $240K, a reduction of 36%. In Cedar city area the median wishing price is now $390K, an increase of 4%. Now tell me, what’s wrong with that picture?
The housing market was booming, and he hit on the idea of packaging sets of cardboard boxes with tape, a tape gun and a marker, then selling them for $55 each to real estate agents who gave them to clients after a home sale.”
“‘I was selling 100 to 150 a week,’ Saltzman said, then laughed at the recollection of how much money had once been rolling in. ‘It was a great business.’”
“But now, he added, fewer people are moving here and many fewer are buying homes. ‘I can’t make it selling 20 of these a week,’ he said.”
So Mr. Saltzman can’t live off of $4400 a month from selling crap to people?
Who in the world would pay $55 for a box of cardboard, tape, and a tape gun?
Um, realtors
Keep in mind that he GROSSES $4400 a month. Subtract off his raw material costs (tape gun, boxes, tape), marketing costs, and advertising costs and it looks a lot less attractive. Figure that half of that $55 is for raw materials; that’s $27.50. So, he’s left with only $2200/month in exchange for dealing with broke Realtors.
He could probably find a factory job that pays $15/hour and that’s $2400/month with no self-employment tax and a lot of certainty. And, even better, no Realtors (except maybe cleaning the floors).
I think Mr. Saltzman is a pretty bright guy. Realtors or houseflippers might hang onto a stupid business until it wrecks them. But other people don’t.
Now, I agree the $55 is outlandish. But, for many people, it is worth a lot of money to save some time and effort.
He said he was selling “100 to 150/WEEK”. Let’s assume 125.
And let’s assume his margin was 50%. Typically you don’t go into buisness for less than that.
So he’d net
125 (units/week)
x 27.5 (profit/unit)
x 4 (weeks/month)
——————-
$13,750
So he’d net $165,000/year!
(I hope someone from the IRS is reading the paper and making sure he reported somewhere around that in income for 2005 and 2006….)
He was selling them to R-E agents. I don’t think it’s immoral to sell overpriced crap to R-E agents!
“He said he started high but moved his price downward. According to Pahacker, once he reduced his price to a more sensible level, he got more individuals interested in his house, which ultimately sold for $350,000.”
Metro Phoenix is hot, dry, dusty, and sprawling, but I live here anyway. I understand that some people (Army/USMC) have a reason to live in/near Yuma, and others may just like the views. But $350K as a “sensible” price in Yuma, Arizona?
Re: Meridian Suites in Las Vegas
Avoid this place like the plague. The people running this place couldn’t even run a lemonade stand on the side of the road–even if their lives depended on it. Worst service in the whole city of Las Vegas.