An Untold Story In California
The San Francisco Chronicle reports from California. “Joann Gardner sat forlornly on her living room floor, waiting for the final step in her home’s foreclosure process. Most foreclosures nowadays are homes purchased just a year or two ago with no money down. But the Gardners’ home is different. Joann’s parents bought the two-bedroom in the Sobrante Park neighborhood in 1954 for $11,500.”
“But in recent years, Joann and her brother refinanced it several times for increasingly larger amounts. The final refinance at the end of 2006 left the family owing $454,000. The monthly payments of $3,362 exceeded the household income of $3,144.”
“What happened to the money from all the refinances? Gardner can’t quite say…What is clear is that the family has not made a mortgage payment since December 2006.”
“‘Goodbye, house. Gotta go, gotta go. I hate to leave. This is it; I can’t come back here no more,’ she said as she walked down the front steps. ‘I hope it helps somebody to read about this; they won’t be boo-boo the fool like I was.’”
The Napa Valley Register. “In the past 12 months, the median price of a Napa County home has fallen approximately $200,000, according to Trendgraphix, Inc. In June 2007 the median price for a Napa County home was $660,000. As of June 2008, the median was $446,000. The median also dipped in American Canyon, from $604,000 in June 2007 to $434,000 in June 2008.”
“‘I believe this is the largest loss in wealth for moderate and middle-income families in the history of the country,’ said Stephen Cogswell of Fair Housing Napa Valley.”
The Santa Cruz Sentinel. “Nearly 500 homes in Santa Cruz County have sold at foreclosure sales so far this year, a 300 percent increase compared to this time a year ago. David Biancalana, a local foreclosure specialist with 20 years experience, said he has never seen this many sales. Foreclosure sales have become an everyday occurrence.”
“Home values in Watsonville have dropped 30 percent, Biancalana said. Buyers — many with Latino surnames — bought homes in new subdivisions in Watsonville for $600,000 to $700,000 with loans that didn’t require proof of income.”
“Emilio Martinez, a private investigator running for City Council in Watsonville, said many Latino borrowers came to him claiming they had been cheated by their mortgage brokers.”
“But in reviewing the documents, he found that in a majority of cases, the incomes of the borrowers had been inflated to qualify for the loan. One example: a couple employed at a sandwich shop earning $35,360 bought a $628,000 home with 100 percent financing and no down payment.”
The Sacramento Bee. “Title companies usually don’t make much news unless they collapse. That happened July 29 when Financial Title closed 10 area offices.”
“Cameron Park real estate broker John Lockwood of Elite Properties gave two reasons. One is the decline of refinancings. Lockwood said those are a mainstay of title company revenue. But fewer owners are refinancing now that home values have sharply declined.”
“The second reason: Bank repossessions account for most of the rising sales. Banks use out-of-town title companies…Lockwood said. ‘The seller gets to pick the title company,’ Lockwood said. ‘The seller these days is banks.’”
The Guardian. “Stockton has become known as Foreclosure Town, USA. And it is not as if there isn’t some stiff competition for Stockton’s dubious accolade in other corners of California, and indeed the rest of America.”
“‘This whole state is in a terrible mess financially,’ Cesar Dias concedes as he prepares to board his Repo Home Tours bus.”
“Indeed, a walk around this once prosperous commuter town 130km north of San Francisco is a frightening reminder that social destruction on a grand scale can happen in the blink of an eye, even in suburban California. All too quickly the city became vastly overdeveloped, with so many empty houses and blocks of flats that the place started to feel like a ghost town.”
“The level of overdevelopment is evident in Stockton’s run-down marina area. Here, the Sheraton Hotel - the centrepiece of a regenerated waterfront quarter - is in receivership and the ‘luxury condominiums’ that were supposed to sell for $750,000 (£375,000) apiece are unfinished.”
The Monterey County Herald. “The cumulative value of Monterey County properties climbed 2.24 percent over last year, according to the county assessor. That’s despite declines of approximately $1.7 billion on about 13,000 residential properties, according to county Assessor Steve Vagnini.”
“Vagnini said there are homes in Salinas with values that have dropped by almost 50 percent. ‘If somebody bought a house for $700,000 at the peak of the market 2½ years ago, they may be getting taxed on $360,000, or $370,000,’ said Vagnini, ‘because that’s what the market bears right now.’”
The Salinas Californian. “A Fresno bank is poised to become the first lender to foreclose on properties at the financially troubled Monterra luxury development in Monterey. While the foreclosures are not final, the properties are set to be auctioned off on the steps of the Monterey County Courthouse on Aug. 27 unless Monterra owners Roger and Basil Mills can bring their payments current.”
“A spokesman for Monterra said the developer has not sold a single lot this year, and if the properties held by Mother Lode Bank are sold at auction, a new market price may be set.”
“‘This is obviously a concern,’ said Charles Chrietzberg, CEO of Monterey County Bank, who is leading a consortium of banks that may secure Monterra’s financial future. ‘If they go to auction, they’ll probably be sold for less than the appraised value, but not significantly below.’”
The Bakersfield Californian. “The unfinished McAllister Ranch development is headed to the auction block Aug. 22, something that could make Lehman Commercial Paper Inc. landlord of three square miles of dust, curbs and an unkempt Greg Norman-designed golf course in southwest Bakersfield.”
“Possible foreclosure of the loan is complicated because two other properties, both in Riverside County, are also tied to the original debt. All three properties are currently scheduled for auction the same morning.”
“The Riverside developments are McSweeney Farms in Hemet, a 1,600-home project on 673 acres, and the 3,683-home SummerWind Ranch community on about 2,590 acres in Calimesa.”
“The championship golf course was completed but never opened for public play. The clubhouse was never finished. In June, large weeds sprouted from the greens.”
“Raw land that sold for upwards of $100,000 an acre during the boom has come back to earth in hard fashion, results of a county assessment review indicate. Prime parcels are now worth about $35,000 an acre, with less desirable sites pegged at $20,000, said Tony Ansolabehere, assistant assessor for Kern County.”
“‘This is the first time we’ve ever been through anything like this,’ Ansolabehere said of the widespread reductions.”
“The office expects additional declines next year. For now, smaller plots are on the menu. ‘This week, I’m looking at mobile homes,’ Ansolabehere said.”
The Ventura County Star. “Sometimes, it just seems easier to walk away. Tired of living in dread, a number of homeowners are mailing their keys instead of mortgage payments to their lenders.”
“‘It is a rising trend, unfortunately,’ said Dustin Hobbs, a spokesman with the California Mortgage Brokers Association. ‘It’s a fairly new phenomenon.’”
“Surprisingly, not all of these homeowners are in trouble. Some are ‘perfectly capable’ to continue making payments, said Michael Szakos, a Realtor with Re/Max Gold Coast Realtors. But in these uncertain times, people might want to reduce their costs by renting.”
“‘It’s an untold story,’ Szakos said.”
“Some homeowners might be current on their mortgages, but are tired of squeaking by every month while home values tumble. Others are on the brink of ruin.”
“A Moorpark woman who did not want to be identified got behind on her mortgage after losing her job and is facing foreclosure. She said she also tried to do a short sale and received four offers, but the prospective buyers eventually moved on because the bank took too long to review them. In spring 2007, she stopped making mortgage payments.”
“She’s sought help from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, Hope Now and several other organizations, but to no avail. Her home is scheduled to be auctioned at the end of this month.”
“‘I can understand why people walk,’ she said, adding that she offered to turn in her key but the lender refused to take it.”
The North County Times. “Carlsbad builder Barratt American could lose ownership of its City Square project in Escondido —- a development that hints at a financial crisis for Barratt and is a small part of a contentious fight between home builders and lenders across the country.”
“Four of the City Square town houses, brand-new properties at Second Avenue and Centre City Parkway, will be sold by a court-appointed receiver.”
“Michael Pattinson, president of Barratt, in a phone interview from London, where he was on a business trip…is blaming the banks for Barratt’s hardship, more than a real estate downturn that has seen prices decline almost 30 percent from a 2005 peak. He said banks created the boom and subsequent bust by concocting exotic mortgages and now have intentionally pulled out of residential lending.”
“Mark Connal, sales director for a builder in Escondido…said he can understand why lenders are freezing lines of credit and limiting new loans. ‘We rely on credit —- every builder does,’ Connal said. ‘But if I’m a bank right now and I see the huge losses out there, you have a responsibility to say, ‘Let’s put on the brakes.’”
“Similarly, Alan Nevin, director of economic research at MarketPointe Realty Advisors, based in San Diego, said a slowdown in lending is necessary.”
“‘You can’t go in and ask a Bank of America to lend money in a situation where there’s a substantial chance of them not being paid back,’ Nevin said. ‘The stockholders of B of A would be absolutely irate.’”
The Union Tribune. “After nearly 16 years of marriage and months of soul-searching, Dan Wahlberg and his wife decided to go their separate ways. They hired attorneys and put their three-bedroom Paradise Hills house up for sale.”
“Neither could afford to move out. They owe $290,000 on their house at a time when nearby homes are listed for as much as $80,000 less. They’re behind on the mortgage and are trying to avoid foreclosure by selling the house for less than they owe. They have little money to set up new households, pay off credit cards and cover divorce attorneys’ fees.”
“‘It’s very hard,’ said Wahlberg. ‘I want to move on. I know she wants to move on. But you really can’t if you’re tied down by the home itself.’”
“Even when one spouse is willing to buy out the other and remain in the home, tighter credit means banks often refuse to refinance mortgages on properties with little or no equity. ‘They used to fight over who was going to keep the house,’ said Marc Angelucci, a family law attorney with the Men’s Legal Center in downtown San Diego. ‘Now they’re fighting to get away from the house.’”
“As the economy has worsened and home prices have dropped, so have divorce filings. From July 2007 to March, 10,224 couples filed for divorce, down 5.7 percent from the same period in 2005-06.”
“‘Though it’s too early to say definitely, I would not be surprised at all to return to a situation such as we had during the Great Depression, where even though you see an increase in marital breakdown, you don’t see an increase in marital break-ups,’ said Stephanie Coontz, director of research for the Council on Contemporary Families and author of ‘Marriage, a History.’”
The Press Enterprise. “They weren’t in line for a new phone or a movie premiere. About 1,500 people waited Thursday hoping for a job — any job — that Target could offer them.”
“Applicants outside Mt. San Jacinto College in Menifee on Thursday and Friday hoped to land one of almost 300 jobs at the new SuperTarget the retailer is opening in Menifee, said Eric Mosser, manager of the store Target is planning in Indio.”
“Michelle Lovato, a resident of Pinon Hills wasn’t optimistic after having stood in line Thursday from 8:30 a.m. until 1 p.m. She eventually filled out an application, took a personality test and was told that she would get a phone call if she was hired.”
“On the brink of losing her home, the 44-year-old freelance writer and mother of three daughters is caught up in the region’s housing crisis.”
“In June 2007, she lost her job as a marketing director for a local mortgage company, and her husband started flipping houses as the market began to drop, she said. They now own four properties, including two they rent. They owe $200,000 on their own house, she said.”
“She said her lack of retail experience is a likely shortcoming, but she is willing to do anything for a steady income.”
“‘I’ll stock shelves, I’ll unload trucks,’ she said. ‘I will mop the floor. I just want a job.’”
‘I’ll stock shelves, I’ll unload trucks,’ she said. ‘I will mop the floor. I just want a job.’
Take note NAR, sovereign wealth “vultures”, and messianic and/or ill tempered pols - buying houses is becoming less and less of a priority with every passing day.
I thought those were jobs American’s didnt want!
Doug- these are the jobs that Americans didn’t want !
However, they are now the jobs that Americans NEED.
I changed tires way back when.
That was a tough ass job.
Mike
She “wants” to do those things, but in reality will last about 3-4 weeks on the tough jobs she mentioned - guaranteed.
“They now own four properties, including two they rent.”
Sounds like a prescription for success.
Another good decision.
Pinion Hills to Menifee - 66 miles each way. Around 6 gals round trip.
After tax wages less gas would net ~$30-35 /day.
3 hrs trvl, 1hr lunch, 8hrs work = 12hrs.
That’s an effective $3 per hour.
Target will do her a favor by not accepting her app.
I thought that was the jobs illegals do!
‘he found that in a majority of cases, the incomes of the borrowers had been inflated to qualify for the loan. One example: a couple employed at a sandwich shop earning $35,360 bought a $628,000 home’
I’d say even the $35k is inflated for a couple of sandwich artists.
It’s sad but I have more respect for a sandwich maker than I now do for Treasury Secretary of the U.S. or Chairman of the Private Reserve Bank of the U.S.A.
My list of prominent Americans and the professions that I respect is getting shorter and shorter.
You know we’ve hit rock bottom when the leader of the free world can’t even pronounce “nuclear” or speak in complete sentences, and the Olympic athletes are getting needle tracks from having so many drug tests.
Exactly! At least the sandwich makers PRODUCE something of value. What does the illegal Federal Reserve produce?
Human misery
“Surprisingly, not all of these homeowners are in trouble. Some are ‘perfectly capable’ to continue making payments, said Michael Szakos, a Realtor with Re/Max Gold Coast Realtors. But in these uncertain times, people might want to reduce their costs by renting.”
“‘It’s an untold story,’ Szakos said.”
“Some homeowners might be current on their mortgages, but are tired of squeaking by every month while home values tumble. Others are on the brink of ruin.”
We have been telling this story here for quite a while already.
Michael Szakos
Year First Licensed 2005
RE/MAX GOLD COAST
509 South Ventura Road
Ventura, CA 93030
Imagine that and he gets quoted as an expert???????????
He says what the media and their corporate masters want to hear. Otherwise he would not be mentioned in the article.
What was that old saying? It is not as important what you earn, it is more important what you spend. Americans need to learn how to live on beans and potatoes again. Steak becomes a luxury again.
18+ months no mortgage payments….I would be so happy to have a zero balance on my Credit cards and money in my pockets to start all over again…
man…these people are so lucky to find a bank that took so long to evict them.
I hope the b*tch chokes on the Hennessy. You know she will be mixing it with Coca Cola. That is the sign of true class.
I read this story this morning. If I remember correctly, the family had owned the property since 1954.
Give EVERYBODY a million dollars today!
The IDIOTS will be broke in a year.
You probably didn’t see the story but these people probably have a tire hanging from the tree in their front yard, If you know what I mean.
Mike
No tire, sorry. :}
http://tinyurl.com/5zj37z
http://www.trulia.com/homes/California/Oakland/sold/2634513-10938-Robledo-Dr-Oakland-CA-94603
I love the part about how she “can’t really say” where the money went. Wha? Give me a break - she knows *exactly* where the money went.
Yeah, she sounds a lot like my ex-husband. “Gee, I have no idea where all my money went while my wife was paying all the bills even though I was earning double her salary!”
Just check to see what businesses in the area are now closing down. That will tell you where the money went from this crook, and other crooks like her.
$400,000 - does that number not just amaze people. We live in NYC and it would take us years to make $400,000 in after-tax income. That money, along with her parents’ SS money, should have lasted this family for years, even after making mortgage payments. This disgusts me.
I’m beyond disgust. It’s enough schadenfreude to see her and her brother losing their parents’ house with little to show for it.
If I was not an atheist and if I had faith that her parents could see what her kids did with that inheritance, I would spin in my grave.
Well they have Alzheimer’s and they needed to go anyway…
so now the kids suffer for the rest of their lives instead of having a paid off home.
I have the opposite problem i own part of my moms house but my 2 brothers wont do anything to help me out until she dies….then if i want my share they will buy me out…
So i struggle every month…and this month was really hard on me. 2 cats got sick and we spent too much on one and not much on the other and she was my fav cat, we put her to sleep tuesday and floated her out to see under the Whitestone bridge in Powells cove a very ritzy area.
My condolences, NYDJ.
DJ,
My condolences as well.
Mike
Thanks…..13 years they were sisters….
And add insult to injury
i applied for a job and when i got no response i walked in and asked politely for the job…the person went ballistic on me stating i never sent in a cover letter and no phone calls….
he treated me like a 20 year old retard who cant follow directions. and the job was 4 blocks from my apartment.
Such a sad story. My condolences. Pets are family. I still grieve over my loss a lil over a year ago.
I read the article and wondered: How many times in the past have we heard these sob stories about people losing their house and we asked “where did the money go”. I remember many bloggers here sending notes to the reporter asking or even showing all the refi’s and asking the reporter to look into where the money went.
Did we change reporting? Now the reporter cannot write boo-hoo stories with out a little research on where the money went. The reporter can say “I asked where the money went but they did not know”. Lame reporting if you ask me. Can’t the reporter find out a little more than “they did not know”.
I bet some of our community bloggers here could find out where the money went?
What is really funny is that if they were being evicted from an apartment for financial mismanagement, or misconduct, the public would view them as the losers they are. Because they are being evicted from a “home” they are seen as victims. What a joke this country has become. We are surrounded by morons.
Money for nuthin’
And their digs for free.
A lot of the money went into commissions for the loan brokers.
Perhaps the FBI can investigate bank and credit card records to see where the money went. Then the bankruptcy can be blocked due to the FRAUD…
Yes. I would say there’s a very good chance the bulk of the money was not actually spent, but laundered.
I suspect a LOT of the money went on compound interest on CC and both mortgage and non-mortgage loan balances.
1. Live (perhaps only slightly) beyond your means and run up the bills.
2. Pay the minimum monthly.
3. When things get tight, refi and clear the balances (plus some toys) with the cashout.
Rinse and repeat, but now the refi ATM has shut down.
It’s financial stupidity rather than fraud.
Relatives of my brother’s first wife have no children and have both worked their entire lives, yet coming into retirement they have NOTHING saved or invested or in pension assets, they rent, and I know for a fact they have significant outstanding CC/Personal Loan balances. The husband is still oblivious, but I think the wife is starting to realise they’re staring down the barrel of genuine poverty.
I’ll bet it’s nearly impossible to document where the money went, as it seems likely that much of that $450K was spent in cash-only transactions of the sort that aren’t reported to the IRS by either buyer or seller.
“But in recent years, Joann and her brother refinanced it several times for increasingly larger amounts. The final refinance at the end of 2006 left the family owing $454,000. The monthly payments of $3,362 exceeded the household income of $3,144.”
“What happened to the money from all the refinances? Gardner can’t quite say…What is clear is that the family has not made a mortgage payment since December 2006.”
Are the mortage lending sector’s merchants of debt still conning long-time homeowners into losing their homes to foreclosure after burying themselves in unrepayable home equity loan obligations, or have prudential lending practices come back into style again?
“What happened to the money from all the refinances? Gardner can’t quite say….”
Perhaps the reporter should have glanced in the driveway to spot the Hummer or 5 series.
Stupied home buyers. Did they expect the greed banks would continue to loan the greeder home buyers? Common sense no more.
Hummer? My guess is that the money went for nose candy or gambling.
“She can’t quite say.”
She might want to remember that word “hummer”. She may be selling a few to try to pay the bills, now that her lottery ticket has been shredded.
…rough crowd…
Gambling seems to be rarely mentioned, but with all the casinos everwhere I’m positive that there have been untold astories out there…
Please don’t put the 5 series in the same sentence as Hummer. My 528i gets about 28mpg and my 530 gets about 26; the 528 has 170,000 miles on it and I got the 530 used for less than what a new Camry costs. Very practical, long-lasting, reliable, and relatively practical cars — not much bling factor for me; the opposite of a Hummer in my opinion!
I suspect there were many trips to Las Vegas.
Prof… hereabouts we have had a return of zero down, discount-mortgage rates on new homes from selected new SFH builders. That doesn’t sound prudent. The zero down is financed by a lender “associated” with the builders, fwiw.
“‘I believe this is the largest loss in wealth for moderate and middle-income families in the history of the country,’ said Stephen Cogswell of Fair Housing Napa Valley.”
Coincidently, the wealth of the top 1 percent has never been greater relative to the rest of the country.
Yes, but to be fair - of the richest 1% - how many of them saw their primary residence as both an investment and a bottomless ATM?
Many rushed smack into the greatest wealth transfer event with no prodding whatsoever.
I doubt if people who have millions of dollars in cash and equities ever saw their primary residence as a “source of income.”
The house-as–ATM was a game played by the working poor and middle, in an effort to look and feel richer than they were.
I completely agree. My family NEVER looked at our residences as an income source or to be used (not *ever*) as leverage to buy more assets.
This whole thing was played by the “$30k millionaires”.
~Misstrial
And see this study in The Atlantic: “The less money you have, the more bling you buy.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/consumption
Reuven:
Thanks for that xlnt link!
~Misstrial
“The less money you have, the more bling you buy.”
Conversely, the more bling you buy, the less of your own wealth you have, and the more of others’ wealth you need to replace the dough you blew on bling.
I also agree. In 2005 a colleague of mine who has a house in Gilbert (Phoenix suburb) told me he would never buy a house with an asking price over $200,000. I remember that. He is right.
And how much of that “wealth” was due to fraudulent appraisals and loan applications? Even many who were able to tap into it lost much of it.
“I believe this is the largest loss in wealth for moderate and middle-income families in the history of the country”
The inflating bubble in house prices 2002-2007 was a massive loss of standard of living for people who had built up their savings and investments for years in hopes of buying a house, only to watch prices rocket out of reach into the staratosphere on a vapor trail of greed and fraud.
But many of those people did not get into real estate and are still saving. Prices in the 20 cities of the Case-Shiller index are still falling.
If you are referring to people who saved up money for years and then bought a house at the peak, yeah, then you are right. They lost. They did not do their homework. I shed no tears for them.
Loss of what wealth most never had anything to begin with and the houses they levraged never had the value they thought they were getting.
There is no loss of wealth it’s all 1’s and 0′2 in a database somewhere. Been counters turning losses to gain’s depending on how they report it. It’s all smoke and mirrors all of it.
Tell that to the people who had their pensions in MBS’s.
Professor Bear wrote: “Coincidently, the wealth of the top 1 percent has never been greater relative to the rest of the country.” And so is the taxes paid by the top 1 percent never been greater relative to the rest of the country. I guess they must be bad because they didn’t piss away their money. We must Punish Them!
“I guess they must be bad because they didn’t piss away their money.”
I have nothing against those who save money, but I cannot tolerate thieves and scam artists, especially the white collar variety who use subtile means which are far above the reach of the law to rake in millions of dollars at the expense of the economic future of the good ole U.S.A.
they won’t be boo-boo the fool like I was.
Fool? Sounds pretty smart to me. Inherit the house, borrow $450,000, don’t pay $3,300 mortgage for 20 months. That equals about 13.5 years worth of Ms. Gardner’s income.
Sweet deal….and all she has to do is find a new place to live……
“Fool? Sounds pretty smart to me”
Yep, they got $450,000 to do with as they pleased. Now they will walk away owing nothing. It was was free money, except for the cost to their credit rating. In seven years they’ll be well ahead of the game(their getting a $450,000 head start).Not a bad deal.
Not so fast on that “7 years and their credit will be restored”.
There are “new rules” all over the credit market, and I suspect these “walk away scamsters” are credit screwed for a whole lot longer than 7 years.
Burn me once shame on you, burn me twice shame on me.
I expect these new rules to be repealed or at least seriously weakened over the next seven years, when it dawns on the PTB how weak housing demand is without plankton to feed the lending industry’s whales.
burn me twice…won’t get burned again.
That’s right. She sold the place to the lenders. Problem is, these people blew the money as they thought more was on the way. Boo boo the F-fool is more like it.
Agreed.
I wonder when people will finally start to understand that there’s no credit crisis in this country, there’s a default crisis. From the smallest of the small (booboo here,) to BAC trying to stiff the CFC debt holders after buying CFC, and at every stratum in between. Or, more importantly, when will the creditors of America start to appreciate that fact?
“One example: a couple employed at a sandwich shop earning $35,360 bought a $628,000 home”
That may be a HBB record….buying at almost 20x gross annual income, when the traditional metric is 3x.
With even the GSE’s getting out of the AltA business by the end of the year, I think that house will be worth a whole lot less than the $628K those schmucks lied to buy.
“That may be a HBB record….buying at almost 20x gross annual income, when the traditional metric is 3x.”
No. It must have been before you posted here, and I cannot quote the exact figures, but there was a story posted a couple of years ago about the Central Valley strawberry picker earning around $20K/year who bought a home for over $700,000.
It would be quite an experience to have $233,333 annual income to qualify for a down payment on a $700,000 house, then move in, and watch as a strawberry picker moves into the house next door. OUCH!
The once quiet neighborhood will be filled with blasing Mariachi music, good ol boys leaning on pickup trucks wearing cowboy hats and drinking Bud. Kids breakdancing on the front sidewalk.
Arizona Republic newspaper feature today on real estate types who bucked the get-rich-quick mentality. One agent mentions that Phoenix real estate buying and selling will be back to normal two years after the foreclosures are all soaked up.
I can see a reversal of slummification in the next few years in Phoenix. First the ones who destroy good homes because the bank repossessed them. Well the new owners will demand for “dam” sure that the repairs will be made at the expense of the bank. Neighborhoods will return to more tranquil times. Quiet cars, no ghetto blasters, that type of thing. The signal when it’s time to buy is when 30 year rates are above 10%, and they will get there. Count on it.
There was that homeless guy last year that bought 6 houses in FL before he kicked the bucket. Was over a million with zero income. That might be the record but I doubt it.
“What happened to the money from all the refinances? Gardner can’t quite say…”
WHY can’t she say? Did she forget already? How do you forget how you spent $454,000?
Or, is she just too embarrassed to admit what the money got spent on?
What a moron.
That $454,000 helped keep places like the “The Pirate Store” open. Get ready retail/CRE.
“The Pirate Store”
- Nice catch on the Pirate Store - didn’t that story break about six months ago?
The San Fran article is rather poorly written. I can’t tell if the money they withdrew went to their parents healthcare or whether they blew it on living the “good life.” Or is it “the American Dream?” Although she did say she had no idea where the money went. Oh well. Easy come easy go. Quite unfortunate. The money could have helped their parents get decent elder care, compared to what they might get at the new facilities.
Most likely they know EXACTLY what they’re doing! Many FBs are discovering they can cover their payments by making their houses available to Section 8 rentals.
These folks may be able to move into a better house and only have to pay 25% of the rent, while you and I pay the rest.
See this article from yesterday’s NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/us/09housing.html?ex=1218945600&en=5a7e763e14e498fc&ei=5070&emc=eta1
“Ms. Payne, a 42-year-old African-American mother of five, moved to Antioch in 2006. With the local real estate market slowing and a housing voucher covering two-thirds of the rent, she found she could afford a large, new home, with a pool, for $2,200 a month.”
Those of you on here for a while may know that I’m not much for political correctness. So, here goes. This will definitely kill values in this area. There is no question. We have discussed this a lot. There will be a lot of McMansion slums. This devastation happened to the inner cities in the 60s and 70s. That was caused by the phenomenon known as “white flight”. Just check out the history of North Minneapolis. It will happen to the suburbs in the years after the Housing Mania. The causes are different. The result is the same.
You need to follow up that NY Times article from this astounding article from the (left leaning!) Atlantic Monthly. It seems that statistically, crime follows section 8 renters….
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200807/memphis-crime
Having grown up in St. Louis, MO (with a similar white flight dynamic as Minneapolis, I am guessing) and having lived in the East Bay later in life, I am not sure the result will be the same, as the Bay Area is far more diverse to begin with than the white areas of Midwest cities ever have been. It is possible that you are right, as Antioch is a long way in economic distance from Richmond, and collapsing real estate prices may open the door to a far more destitute socioeconomic class of residents (of whatever race) than the early movers, resulting in social instability. Still, the deep-seated history of racial tension which simmers under the surface of Midwest neighborhood dynamics, dating all the way back to the Civil War, does not exist in the same form in ethnically diverse California.
I’m sure they’ll take very good care of the property, while their living in it.
sho ’nuff
Meh…whether a FB gets welfare from Section 8 or an Alt-A loan from WaMu or Countrywide to “rent” their McMansion makes no difference to me. At least she is honest and didn’t lie about her income to get where she is (the vetting process for Section 8 is MUCH stricter than WaMu’s).
“At least she is honest and didn’t lie about her income to get where she is”
Are you sure about that? I’m guessing a lot of Section 8′ers have hidden income. Working for cash is a great way to be a tax cheat. A lot of these “poor” people drive really nice vehicles. Yes, that’s true. Just because they don’t have taxable income doesn’t mean they don’t have income.
In regards to that article: if you don’t want increase scrutiny of your living habits you don’t have to accept Taxpayer money! Pay all your rent yourself, and you’ll get more rights.
(and by her own admission she was violating the terms of her section 8 lease by having her parolee estranged ex-husband live with her)
PBS, yes PBS on one of their documentaries did a segment about how the police and the social services people in Memphis pooled their data and came to the realization that suburban areas where there was a concentration of Section 8 renters coincided exactly with the areas that experienced a rise in reported crimes. The point was that with the demise of large tracts of public housing, crime was no longer “contained.”
yes, the boyfriend hangs around, don’t bother getting married..get section 8, welfare and foodstamps, work the bars or casinos at night, off the books. I’ve seen this setup quite a bit in fact. It’s a living..
> Still, the deep-seated history of racial tension which simmers under the surface of Midwest neighborhood dynamics, dating all the way back to the Civil War, does not exist in the same form in ethnically diverse California.
Yep, as Rodney King said “Why can’t we all just get along?”
“Ms. Payne, a 42-year-old African-American mother of five, moved to Antioch in 2006. With the local real estate market slowing and a housing voucher covering two-thirds of the rent, she found she could afford a large, new home, with a pool, for $2,200 a month.”
Nix her housing voucher — make the five fathers of her children pay the bills.
Fathers of children is so politically incorrect — don’t you know the correct term is “baby-daddys?”
It didn’t go for medical care. The parents qualify for Medicare A, B, and D. I say the Benjamins went to Coach and Manolo Blahnik.
If someone can’t remember where it went, it’s because there is nothing to show for it. So, it safe to say most of it went down the toilet.. gambling, traveling, things that were consumed, along with various and sundry crap that wasn’t needed or even wanted, etc.
A couple hundred grand can be pissed away with ease. In fact, it takes more effort to preserve it than to spend it. Money is the envy of any escape artist.
“‘This whole state is in a terrible mess financially,” Cesar Dias concedes as he prepares to board his Repo Home Tours bus.”
The next time he will be saying “‘This whole state is in a terrible mess financially,” Cesar Dias concedes as he prepares to board ..UP.. his Repo Home Tours bus.”
“tried to turn in the keys to the lender and the lender wouldn’t accept the keys”???
Just leave em on the desk, or do a Certified Return recpt and take a witness with a notary or…Done.
Turn em in.
They won’t let me? LET?
Mewonders how many legs (wheels) this foreclosure tour bus business has left…
“Loan Term Adjustments” in Orange County CA.
- My brother is a loan broker in Orange County and we just spoke about the loss mitigation adjustments he is doing.
- They are successfully getting lenders to adjust the loan payments to lower amounts for their clients …. BUT the lenders are REFUSING to LOWER the amount of the loans to current housing values!!
- So most of his clients are simply saying ‘Screw it” - and walking away from the house. They don’t just want a ‘payment bailout’ they also want a ‘price reset’ for the value of the loan.
“They don’t just want a ‘payment bailout’ they also want a ‘price reset’ for the value of the loan.”
Well that’s what the Housing Bill is essentially promising them. However the bill hinges on lenders playing along. Your example demonstrates that they’re not. Will they change their minds just because the date on the calendar reads October 1?
If some FB cannot support the mortgage unless the principle owed is reduced, what is the incentive for a bank lower the principle to current market value?
If i were that bank, I’d much prefer to foreclose, and then sell it to a more suitable and better qualified buyer at current value, and at least gain a downpayment.
Two more homes were abandoned on my sisters street within the last month in south OC. Panic has set in. These are places that sold in the 800k+ range two years ago.
My friend in Ontario CA called me this morning. He was telling me he was seeing many long time restaurants, and even chain locations closing like flies. A Taco Bell gone. Carrows. The Whole Enchalada (no pun intended). And many more. No recession or downturn here. Move along please.
No more Coffee Bean in Surprise, Arizona, but still a half dozen Starbucks.
I was looking at the list of the upcoming Starbucks closures nationwide, and was amused to see that Eloy, AZ had a Starbucks. That is extreme.
http://www.starbucks.com/aboutus/USStoreClosureInfo.pdf
The Starbucks closure PDF for California seems to show a correlation between closures and the real estate meltdown. San Diego, Hemet, Sacramento, Victorville, Ontario, Fresno, Brea are seeing a high % of their Starbucks stores closing, v. San Francisco (only 2), etc. Of course this is just a quick glance, not an actual analysis, but it’s a pretty striking first impression.
need 2 leave,
It’s not just happening in CA. Here in the DFW area, a few weeks ago, all the corporate-owned Bennigan’s and Steak & Ale restaurants closed, and laid off their help.
I can remember reading an annual report from Applebee’s several years back. The executive who wrote the introduction, perhaps providing a rationale for future growth of that chain, observed that cooking had turned from a necessity into a hobby.
Looks like we’re back down to the bare necessities.
Fries… Applebee’s just opened here and business looks rather thin. Yogurt place shuttered nearby. In n Out burger place has heavy drive-thru still. Wine and cheese places closing…
my sister- inlaw turned into a wine-o, i mean a wine expert during this whole housing sceme. she also borrowed lots of money for a huge house that has a bar to display her new found taste for the good life. all though its really hard for me to forget that not to long ago she lived in a singlewide at the local trailor park.
I would buy stock in an “In-n-Out” IPO in a heartbeat, and I don’t even eat meat! They will do very well during this downturn…
I thought their burgers were good when I was in California. They had the type of loyal customers that Krispy Kreme used to have down south. Plus the sexual connotation makes it a very catchy name. I was thinking that I might try to franchise a restaurant called The Reach-Around Taco Palace. “Everybody loves a good reach-around”, would be my marketing slogan.
LOL nice slogan. In-n-Out IMO has a great business plan ie.. Burgers and fries or go somewhere else. Simple menu and keeps the fast in fast food but still taste great.
Even better..
The kid around here were altering the ..”In n Out Burger” stickers. Removing the B & r off Burger.
In and Out - privately owned by Mormons. No, they don’t do franchises.
In-N-Out is owned by Christians, not Mormons.
Ever looked at the bottom of their cups? They have a Bible verse printed on it, not Book of Mormon.
Was in Gilroy yesterday and a ‘linen and thing’s’ was having a going out of business sale. Store was in complex with Costco and Home Depo and across the street is a WalMart super store.
They might have to change the name to “Home Repo” pretty soon.
-Housing/rents in the US should fall. 10 years ago, 30% of my expenses were housing related. Now, 60%! LOL. Musical chairs-incomes just didn’t keep up.
BTW, I rent & rents haven’t increased much at all compared to ‘owners.’ Only one way this could head….
Rents have already fallen dramatically in my area. I posted several weeks ago that a townhouse identical to mine (same subdivision) was asking over $200 less than what we’re paying. Our landlady agreed to match the price, but we decided to move anyway… to a comparable place that will cost $500+ per month less!
Most folks would be annoyed about moving twice in one year, but I look at the savings and its a no-brainer.
I should have added that house prices are not falling nearly as quickly as rents here. Seems everyone would rather financially bleed themselves slowly “renting it out until the market improves” than taking the hit and moving on.
What area of the country, Kim?
I thought we’d see a rent collapse, but not just yet.
Sharon Stone is renting a property for far less than she wanted. She couldn’t sell it for her price.
LA Times Saturday real estate section had more rental properties than I’ve ever seen before. Many in Beverly Hills and Brentwood. Asking very high rents.
Oh boo hoo hoo! These people got $454,000 tax free! (not to mention the value of the rent they didn’t have to pay for 18 months.)
“But in recent years, Joann and her brother refinanced it several times for increasingly larger amounts. The final refinance at the end of 2006 left the family owing $454,000. The monthly payments of $3,362 exceeded the household income of $3,144.”
“What happened to the money from all the refinances? Gardner can’t quite say…What is clear is that the family has not made a mortgage payment since December 2006.”
You and I would have to earn a million dollars to net $454,000 in CA.
I don’t think that they have a non-recourse loan because they refinanced.
So,if the lender wanted to go after them they could . Thats a huge some of money to get and walk on the debt on . I don’t know how much the lender is going to get for the house ,but in cases where the borrower
took out huge sums of money ,I think they should owe . It also looks like there was fraud on the loan application ,given the monthly salary .
The police would lock a petty thief in jail for stealing 100 bucks from a liquor store ,yet thousands of dollars taken by a loan crime ,and these borrowers think somehow they are victims because they have to move .This is a case ,and anyone like it ,where I think the lenders should go after their recourses .
Refi’s are recourse. How many of these lenders will go after the deficiency when their actions were also fraudulent?
While there is nothing right about what was done by the borrowers and likely the lenders, I doubt any of this will ever be repaid given the scope and prevalence of the practices in place at that time.
It may be difficult to press charges when you are accomplice to the crime.
Good point ,but it the lender was just a secondary market lender that bought the loan ,they might not be a a party to the origination fraud .
“Home values in Watsonville have dropped 30 percent, Biancalana said. Buyers — many with Latino surnames — bought homes in new subdivisions in Watsonville for $600,000 to $700,000 with loans that didn’t require proof of income.”
Yeah, I knew some of the folks (with Latino surnames) that were selling these houses as well. They used the now classic canard “every one wants to live in Watsonville” to justify the prices! Uh,no that isn’t true Lupe. There is no justification for padding your pockets with the ignoble dreams of the ignorant.
I was in total shock when upon finding out that two custodians I knew had purchased a $600,000 home with a combined income of $50,000. They sure did like to brag about their purchase as well. It’s gonna take YEARS of toilet scrubbing to pay off that loan Juan. Either that or just walk away.
Watsonville. $600,000 homes. The disconnect is mind blowing.
Our government will print enough money to make a $600,000 in tWatsonville make sense. That seems to be their strategy.
and minimum wage will be $18.95 per hour….all is good
Yes, cutting taxes on the wealthy, bolstering expenditures for defense and social programs, letting the “free market” regulate itself, and holding down the minimum wage has already done SO much for America’s overall economic health.
More trickle-down, please…the big boys standing above me tell me that thar’s some gen-u-wine liquid gold dripping down on my head!
LOL! Yes, let’s make everyone millionaires! That for sure will solve the problem.
No economic solution works for everyone. I guess if proles like you get too upset you can always attempt to replay 1917. Now wouldn’t that be a great solution?
Their are ways to protect yourself and ensure your economic well being. You don’t always have to be a victim to promote an agenda.
“Yes, let’s make everyone millionaires!”
I was recently a millionaire for a day, in Vietnamese dong. $60 Bernankes into the ATM machine was all it cost ($1 = 16,667 dong).
I hope you were able to get your dong out of that machine.
I always said i wouldn’t trade my “dong” for a million bucks!
“‘This is obviously a concern,’ said Charles Chrietzberg, CEO of Monterey County Bank, who is leading a consortium of banks that may secure Monterra’s financial future. ‘If they go to auction, they’ll probably be sold for less than the appraised value, but not significantly below.’”
The price set an an auction is, by definition, the correct one. What an appraiser says is an “estimate” made by a guy who read a book and passed a test.
I would count on “significantly below” in todays market. I doubt any appraiser hired by a bank would dare suggest the real market value.
The problem is that most of the debt on the property is held by public employees of Salinas and Monterey in their deferred comp program because property only goes up. I think it’s the big players in the plan who are worried, if it were the little players they’d hang them out to dry.
But the foreigners will bail out all these crazy loans - http://www.nypost.com/seven/08102008/business/lost_sovereignity_123879.htm!! Even if it is at one-half of what it originally cost!! Everyone is going to own us! Not only the Chinese!
“What happened to the money from all the refinances?”
Sheesh, couldn’t they at least have gotten new carpet and some paint for the walls?
That would have cut into her cigarette and Hennessy bill.
The underlining trend for all of these stories seems to be that these are suburban style houses in the middle of nowhere. Once you add in the cost of commuting they just don’t make sense for most.
This can happen anywhere in suburbia. Don’t kid yourself. The “investors” don’t care about these neighborhoods and they will be the ones renting to anybody with money. They won’t care if they are Section 8 vouchers.
“‘You can’t go in and ask Bank of America to lend money in a situation where there’s a substantial chance of them not being paid back.’ Nevin said. ‘The stockholders of B of A be absolutely irate.’”
Lol. Where was this guy five years ago? Why weren’t B of A stockholders irate five years ago?
Where are my meds?
“‘You can’t go in and ask Bank of America to lend money in a situation where there’s a substantial chance of them not being paid back.’ Nevin said. ‘The stockholders of B of A be absolutely irate.’”
Sure you can! Remember they were lending to a whole bunch of people without a SS# !!! But then again I’m biased as I have an abhorrence for B of A and their arrogance.
“A Moorpark woman who did not want to be identified got behind on her mortgage after losing her job and is facing foreclosure. She said she also tried to do a short sale and received four offers, but the prospective buyers eventually moved on because the bank took too long to review them. In spring 2007, she stopped making mortgage payments.”
“She’s sought help from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development, Hope Now and several other organizations, but to no avail. Her home is scheduled to be auctioned at the end of this month.”
“‘I can understand why people walk,’ she said, adding that she offered to turn in her key but the lender refused to take it.”
wait I was always told “Once you move away you can never move back” I guess if you move away and buy some McMansion in Phoenix thats true but if you sell and rent……….. I interviewed for a job in TO and HR was sooooooooo Happy I didn’t have to sell a house in Phoenix. They even had one poor guy quit shortly after hired because he couldn’t get what he wanted for his Phoenix home. moved back to Phoenix and I guess. That sucks I was in that position back in the mid ninties and vowed it will not happen again.
Anyway HR even advised me to rent for awhile because prices are still going down. OK I said renting sounds good
So now I wait see what happens. See if I get the job. Then maybe I can pull off what was said to be immpossible in CA RE, sell high move away then move back buy low. Only have to do it once as long as its the Mother of all RE busts. And I think Bens’ right this is the big one the “once-in-a-life time-bust. “
Good luck. Where’s “TO?”
Today’s AZ Republic has a neat article on how government (taxpayer) spending is helping the economy in Arizona. Orbital Sciences, GD, Honeywell, Raytheon, and the University of Arizona are reaping profits in research and defense. You know me, defense spending is justified, but I disagree on space research - not mentioned in the constitution.
“You know me, defense spending is justified, but I disagree on space research - not mentioned in the constitution.”
Really…what kind of “defense spending” are you talking about? The kind where we are being attacked and don’t have any weapons to defend ourselves? or are you referring to the costs of subsidizing Halliburton and Exxon’s, ahem, ‘Nation Building’?
I’m apparently not as smart as you are, so please point out the part where invading sovereign nations for the sake of “spreading democracy” (that’s why I think we’re in Iraq-the reasons keep changing) is mentioned in the Constitution?
If “defense spending” is okay, then how about taxing the public to pay for it (”defense taxation” as opposed to “defense borrowing”).
Ben Stein (a Republican) wrote an excellent article about how ridiculous it is to try to fight 2 wars and bail ourselves out of our own stupidity, while simultaneously cutting taxes. Thankfully, even the most ardent Kool-Aid drinkers aren’t getting a free pass on this anymore.
[qoute]If “defense spending” is okay, then how about taxing the public to pay for it (”defense taxation” as opposed to “defense borrowing”).[/quote]
They already do where do you think our tax dollars go??
You ought to know from my posts I’m a Libertarian, so defense is justified as “defense,” rather than being the world’s policeman and meddling in the internal affairs of other countries. Defense of the 50 states and its territories. That includes space-based defense (anti-missile defense), but not space research, which is welfare for astronomers.
“TO?” - Thousand Oaks?
“TO” usually means Toronto
I always get Toronto and Tirana mixed up.
Hi Bill if you make it back to AZ in the next month or 2 I’ll buy you a coffee, I’m near sun ray park in Ahwatukee. Or maybe I’ll be here much longer one never knows?
TO = Thousand Oaks CA in Ventura County but any neighboring city will do, like Simi, Newbury Park, Camarillo etc.
Cactus, sun ray is right outside my window in AZ.
Thousand Oaks is good, as it’s Simi Valley - one of the lowest crime rates.
I’m back in Phoenix the weekend of the 29th. I’ll take you up on that coffee (gotta remind myself to contact you by sending myself an e-mail). I figure we could meet at Starbucks or Einstein’s - if you are in the area that weekend.
I’ll contact you through here again around that time.
Yes sounds good I should be here at least until the end of August. I’m right off Knox close to the park. either place is good for me.
Did anyone read anything about Sovereign Wealth Funds putting up billions of $$ to buy REOs in the West?
Sounds of financial music to my ears.
Repatriation of U.S. dollars by foreign knifecatchers? Lol. Bring ‘em back home, Baby.
Gotta love the NAR, I’m hoping they go international and spread the word throughout the world (using their own money, of course): The bottom is in! Buy U.S RE now or be priced out forever!
The NAR = The U.S. taxpayer’s best friend.
I think the foreign sovereign fund knifecatchers may be the best hope for U.S. taxpayers to avoid having to make the GSEs whole. Let them choke on the vomitously high prices created by a flood of hot foreign money a couple of years ago into the subprime securization pipeline! Won’t they be shocked when they find out they can neither rent out the places nor sell them for amounts that make the infestments pencil out?
“Joann’s parents bought the two-bedroom in the Sobrante Park neighborhood in 1954 for $11,500″
Her parents must be so proud of her
crush
The discussion at the Napa Valley Register is fun. I especially like the appraiser gal who says such wonderful nuggets like:
“” To mikeb - we get paid each and every time we give an opinion of value. Be it a sale, re-fi, date of death, divorce and many times prior to a listing a property… We use recent and bracketed comparable sales. No one calling anything black here! Value is what is substantiated, nothing more, nothing less. Do you really think we’d put our licenses in jeopardy for $400? Not in a million years!”
or
“When you want the facts on the real estate market, consult an appraiser. Why ask a realtor or lender about the market when they earn their livings only when sales or loans occur? Stating that the market is declining would hinder their ability to earn a living, does the word stockbroker ring a bell? Would be nice to see NVR interview local valuation professionals who are disinterested third parties. Imagine what it would be liked to hear a non-biased opinion for once… “”
Oh yes, the appraisers. Truly they were the substantiated, disinterested, non-biased voice of reason during the housing bubble’s finest hours.
Nuttin’ personal. >snicker<
Just another bit of food for thought:
I don’t know anything about Sobrante Park, but $11,500 = about eight years’ gross minimum wage income from 1954. ($0.75 * 2000 = 1,500).
In today’s wages, that would come out to about $115,000.
Yep, that sounds about right. Wake me up when I can find me a starter house at that price. Till then…
But the Gardners’ home is different. Joann’s parents bought the two-bedroom in the Sobrante Park neighborhood in 1954 for $11,500.”
“But in recent years, Joann and her brother refinanced it several times for increasingly larger amounts. The final refinance at the end of 2006 left the family owing $454,000. The monthly payments of $3,362 exceeded the household income of $3,144.”
“What happened to the money from all the refinances? Gardner can’t quite say…What is clear is that the family has not made a mortgage payment since December 2006.”
What a scumbag.
Hey! I know where Joann’s money went:
I’m glad it’s done,” Gardner said wearily. “I just want to sit down and have some Hennessy.”
OH
MY
GOD.
I’m sick ‘n’ tired of stories about total idiots who have no inkling of financial accountability - spend, spend, spend, and don’t worry about tomorrow. The house has been in the family for 54 years and it’s still not paid for??!! Something is wrong there, let’s not blame it on the current economic situation. Please, give me a story of true hardship and then I’ll feel sorry for the people involved. A spendthrift is a spendthrift is a spendthrift, it’s not just a mortgage that’s involved here. And, yeah, if you lie about your income, prepare to lose everything later on. Oh, but they can still afford their smokes and beer, sheesh.