August 12, 2008

Bits Bucket For August 12, 2008

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322 Comments »

Comment by 41Cadillac
2008-08-12 04:05:35

Gas will eventually cost below $3.00 per gallon in the USA. Annnndddd……, the SUV will come back with a vengence. I can see the “HOLLYWOOD” sign from my window. Hollywood Blvd and Vine is a twenty minute walk. Because I know the deep heart of citizens of LA is my proof. So. Be. It.

Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 04:16:32

Hooray! Happy days are hear again!

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-12 04:45:54

If a $1 change in the price of gas, UP or DOWN, causes that many significant behavioral changes then that’s pretty sad for this society.

Maybe this is the salvation of the automakers - engineer wide swings in gas prices every year so that the hyper-consumers alternatively bid up the price of the Prius and the Hummer.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-08-12 04:48:10

Miles driven by NYCityBoy in 2008 = 0

Can anybody beat that?

Comment by Marcus
2008-08-12 04:57:40

8 more work days until I move into my new place… a block from my job!

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-12 05:05:00

If BO gets in, as the car-less would we qualify for that $1,000 fuel cost alleviation measure he was going on about last week?

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Comment by oxide
2008-08-12 05:11:16

Miles driven by Oxide 1986-1992 = 0
1992-1993 = ~300
1994-mid 2002 = 0
Late 2002 = 1600
2003 = 0
2004 = 800
2005 = 0
2006 = 0

e-john, they just want us to buy both an SUV and a sedan, and then a Volt when it comes out. (Saw a commercial for the Volt during the Olympics. It’s a good first try, but it’s probably got more bugs than a beehive. I’ll wait for the next generation.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-12 05:24:42

Consumption begets consumption. They can buy all the vehicles they want - and then they’ll have go out and buy a Soloflex or a gym membership because they don’t get any exercise.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2008-08-12 05:18:35

NYCB — What, not even a rental car when you were on vacation down south? Hmm, did you lose your license??
(Nope, I cannot beat zero, I drive about 20,000 miles a year as you can guess from my various postings. I admit I don’t drive near you, though. When we had lunch in NYC, I parked my car at Bronxville station.)

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-08-12 07:22:18

That was October ‘07. That week is the only week I’ve driven since ‘05.

 
Comment by mgnyc99
2008-08-12 08:01:00

BUT NYCBOY WAS IN MY CAR FOR 3 MILES !!!!

i only drive maybe 5k a year in a 4 cylinder

 
 
Comment by Capitalissimo
2008-08-12 05:27:36

Miles driven by Capitalissimo from the second half of 2004-2008: 0.

Wow it’s been a long time since I’ve driven anywhere.

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Comment by SV guy
2008-08-12 05:55:35

Not bad NYC.

I’d say 90% +/- of miles are driven in a company vehicle. Not bad.

Mike

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Comment by kidbuck
2008-08-12 07:40:14

Easy, my Mom is 78 years old and has never driven a car.

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Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 07:44:40

Another ratio is how many miles you drive versus how many you walk. NYCityBoy, you’ll win that one, too, but I bet Aladinsane is up there on the walking stick ratio. Or how about driving versus bicycling, and that’s one for AZSlim.

But if you look at actual driving/walking/bicycling versus miles studied on topo maps, I win, it’s my hobby, I’ve travelled many many miles on maps. It’s free and has zero carbon impact or whatever that supposedly is. :)

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 07:56:28

Lostie gal,

I love reading maps. When I’m out driving the back roads and see a road that I don’t have time to explore, I make a note of the name of the road, go home, and use goggle map to see where the road will go.

I love to drive as well as walk. :)

 
Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 08:04:15

Google is awesome, you can take road trips all over and never leave home. Google should get some kind of carbon footprint award from Al Gore. Or did he invent it, too? :)

 
Comment by darthrealtor
2008-08-12 10:19:03

“Google should get some kind of carbon footprint award”

Server farms are an incredible drain on our electrical infrastructure. Anyone who thinks that surfing the net is good for your carbon footprint is in for a surprise.

Here’s one link that I dug up quickly.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?articleID=070811_5_E4_hTech05764

 
Comment by aflurry
2008-08-12 14:05:21

Lost in Utah

Ya better Sniggety-Snopes yourself before ya riggity-wrecks yourself:

http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 14:13:25

Well dang darth,

Maybe you should stop participating in the blog and lessen your carbon footprint. ;)

 
 
Comment by peter a
2008-08-12 10:37:42

54000 driven in 2007 that is one reason I got out of telecomm and went into nursing. Now I will be within 5-20 miles of my home. I live in southern california so not driving is out of the question but I will drive muck less.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-08-12 15:41:22

It’s been decades since I’ve driven a car.

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Comment by cashedin05
2008-08-12 21:39:12

I drive a lot. Sometimes for no reason at all. Love road trips.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-08-12 04:13:21

From the Editors of American Banker
Fed Survey Highlights Bank-GSE Disconnect

Banks seem unprepared for the pullback Fannie and Freddie are planning as a Fed survey shows a sizeable chunk of lenders expect to sell or securitize large mortgages to the GSEs.

Comment by oxide
2008-08-12 05:36:40

I’d like to by a fly on the wall in that mahogany boardroom. “What do you mean, we can’t pass off our bad paper to the g-ment by pretending to be too big to fail, the same way that airlines pass off their pensions to the g-ment by pretending to go bankrupt?!? My bonus depended on that strategy!! Waaaah!”

Comment by pressboardbox
2008-08-12 06:30:28

Don’t worry. Their little bitch-boy Paulson will come through.

 
 
Comment by polly
2008-08-12 05:37:00

That pull back on Alt-A’s will have a heck of an impact too. I think undocumented loans are about to become history….

Comment by Asparagus
2008-08-12 06:17:19

It’s one thing when the gov’t tells banks to tighten lending standards. It’s another when it’s your a$$ on the line.

Tighten those cheeks.

 
Comment by Xenos
2008-08-12 06:45:35

I know someone who just closed on a jumbo no-doc. I was astonished that he pulled it off. I would give it a 50% chance of failure within 18 months.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-08-12 07:33:11

Anybody got any data on what exactly banks mean when they report tightening standards?

Maybe they only tightened for the corpses and the strawberry pickers. 3% downpayment instead of none.

Back to the bank/GSE disconnect, there’s gotta be some sort of shell game manipulations planned. I can’t imagine banks could last any longer than Fan or Fred w/too many of those on their books.

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Comment by pressboardbox
2008-08-12 07:55:56

As I understand it lending standards now include fogging a mirror twice, not just the once…

 
 
Comment by polly
2008-08-12 07:50:43

And that is why I’m not even looking yet. The credit tightening is no more than top of the 2nd inning for now (or, if you want to use Olympics terms, the US basket ball team is only 12 points up). I want a morgage when even I can barely get one, and not a moment sooner.

Good to see you again, Xenos.

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Comment by CA renter
2008-08-13 04:24:24

With you on that one, polly!

We’ll buy our houses in cash! :)

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-08-12 09:03:42

I’m still seeing these Disney loans out there too. Things aren’t tight enough yet. I know that 5 and 10 percent down is also still “routine” at the banks around here.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-08-12 09:32:51

Wait a minute here - are we actually going to start expecting people to PROVE that they have REAL INCOME before lending them hundreds of thousands of dollars?! Why, that is downright Un-Amerikan! How are we going to blow asset Bubbles if people have to, you know, be able to afford what they buy?!

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-08-12 20:04:43

My puts on Downey S&L are screaming. Thanks to Ben and this board, my puts on WaMu and DSL this past year will pay for my vacations. To bad I was of little faith re puts Fannie and Freddie. Probably because the ‘gov’ was involved.

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2008-08-12 04:15:37

Worst. Apartment. Ever. Apologies if this has been posted before, but I just had to do it again.

http://www.craigslist.org/about/best/lax/716584559.html

Comment by Deflationary Jane
2008-08-12 10:38:53

That sounds like every place I or my friends ever rented in LA.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 11:54:14

How’s St. Louis treating you and your family DJ?

Comment by Deflationary Jane
2008-08-12 13:22:28

The jobs are ok but we love the city. What a difference in the standards of living. We’re waiting for summer to officially depart before really going exploring as it’s pretty sticky but midwest summer storms are the best so I don’t mind so much.

You won’t believe the palace we are renting just blocks from the campus and public transport at the Loop and across the street from the park. We have the entire 3rd floor and a small garage. All the modern upgrades and yet the place still has plenty of character. I wish they’d go condo and sell the flat to us.

I shudder to think of what a 1600 sqft 2 Br flat in a 1900’s vintage brick building with a view of the park and secure parking would run in SF. Heck, good luck finding something like that in Sacramento and if you do, you’re still talking over 2500 easy. You don’t want to know what we pay. It’s obscene by CA standards. I keep thinking I’m going to get a call from the LL telling us they made a mistake.

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Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 04:25:35

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com ) — Prime mortgages are starting to record disturbingly high default rates, which could slow any potential housing recovery.

The delinquency rate for prime mortgages worth less than $417,000 was 2.44% in May, compared with 1.38% during May of 2007, according to LoanPerformance.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/12/real_estate/prime_defaults_price_drops/index.htm

Comment by az_lender
2008-08-12 05:24:53

News flash. az-lender has a problem borrower. Is this the beginning of the end?

Here’s the story. I lent $18K about 10 years ago on a trailer-park lot. There have been numerous cash-out refi’s since then, and these people owe me $46K at 9%. The last cash-out refi was in March of 2008, just $6K. At that time, we agreed their monthly payment would rise from $500 to $630, so that the term of the loan would remain unchanged (Feb 2017). In July they told me they were getting a new loan at 7.5% from someone else. I said great. I am sick of them and their cash-out refi’s. They didn’t succeed in getting the new loan, and didn’t make the July payment. They emailed me saying they would make the Aug payment, and would I stick the July payment onto the end of their mortgage term. I emailed back NO, telling them that the terms of the most recent cash-out refi were, pay off the whole thing no later than Feb 2017. Therefore, I told them, either catch up the July payment some time this year, or we will increase the monthly payment from $630 to $640. However, I told them we could discuss this a bit later if they would make the August payment on time (due 8/13). Stay tuned. Their property is worth more than $46K even now, but I am gearing up to repossess it if I remain pissed off.

Comment by InMontana
2008-08-12 05:48:27

So they bought an actual trailer park lot? That’s neat. I think people ought to be able to do that more. That’s getting rarer and rarer here in Missoula. Of course investors were buying up what individual trailer lots there were and putting stickbuilt on them.

 
Comment by mikey
2008-08-12 06:32:11

..and the hidden effects of the RE Blowback hasn’t even begun in earnest in some areas AZ :)

Comment by mikey
2008-08-12 07:30:44

Help!…The Chinese COMMIES ARE Comingggg!

…Ooops it’s just Flippers and it said investors…not INVADERS :)

From the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

Former Northridge property sold
Group of U.S., Chinese investors may attempt quick resale
The former Northridge Mall, which closed five years ago, has been sold to a group of U.S. and Chinese investors who may try to flip the property for a quick profit

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=780672

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Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-08-12 07:33:29

repo laws vary big time state to state
bet Ma,ny,mn and ca are a bitch

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-08-12 14:13:22

I think you did the exact right thing in dealing with them AZ lender .

 
Comment by Mole Man
2008-08-12 20:16:11

Sounds like someone wants that post-bubble over 10% rate. How does 11% sound? Sounds like repossession to me. Good luck with that. Don’t forget that they asked, even begged for a bitter end.

 
 
Comment by Maria
2008-08-12 05:34:10

And there’s a strong inverse correlation between home prices and defaults, according to Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the National Association of Realtors.

“It’s a feedback loop,” he said. “Price declines lead to more defaults, which leads to more price declines.”

——————————————————————————–

You dont need a degree in Economics to figure out this great inverse relations. I thought common senes was more than sufficient. I can take his job.

Comment by combotechie
2008-08-12 05:46:34

“It’s a feedback loop.”

Here’s a feedback loop brought to you by Calvin Coolidge: “When more and more people are thrown out of work, unemployment results”.

Comment by qaxbami
2008-08-12 06:15:57

It’s a double negative feedback loop.

When more people are out of work, it leads to more defaults, which leads to more price declines, which leads to more people out of work, …

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Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-08-12 08:08:10

That would be a POSITIVE feedback loop A negative feedback loop tends to stabilize (keeping your car on the road is a negative feedback loop). This is a “negative” (as in we don’t like it) “positive” feedback loop.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-08-12 08:45:58

Not to be completely @nal-retentive but this is a positive feedback loop.

An action leading to a larger action in the same direction.

A negative feedback loop would be one where the reaction tends to dampen the action. The refrigeration mechanism in your fridge is one of these. When the fridge gets too cold, it turns the stuff off. It doesn’t crank it up further.

I hate it when lay people use engineering terms without any understanding of what they mean. Negative doesn’t refer to “bad” it refers to a negative coefficient in the feedback loop equations.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-08-12 10:30:43

Not to be even more @nal retentive, but a negative feedback loop doesn’t “dampen” the action. It damps the action.

 
Comment by mathguy
2008-08-12 11:24:45

I’m an engineer, and I hate it when engineers (or more likely some marketer somewhere) coin retarded terms like “negative feedback loop”, rather than the more appropriate “negative coefficient feedback loop” or “damping feedback”. Negative feedback is a common term that is different than a negative coefficient, and (using it is) the reason both engineers and laypeople get confused.

Note: FPSS, not calling you retarded, rather the person(s) who coined the term and caused us all the grief.

 
Comment by oxide
2008-08-12 12:13:09

Don’t worry engineers, we forgive you.

But I will NEVER forgive you for positive current. :-P

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-08-12 17:38:56

Every loop I’ve seen uses positive gains and a subtraction, not a negative gain coefficient.

The big problem with terminology is that engineers started to develop automatic controls in the 1800s and a lot of the terminology survives. Just look at the magic spell tomes used to design gains in some disciplines… ;)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 06:42:58

The high end is not as special as it used to be anymore.

High-end homes join county’s foreclosure fray
130 pricey properties in trouble, data show
By Roger Showley
STAFF WRITER

August 12, 2008

John R. McCutchen / Union-Tribune
This foreclosed home on Hillside Drive in La Jolla now lists for $12.9 million.

Six years ago, at the height of the housing boom, the architect-developer partners of Concepto Design Group International in the Gaslamp Quarter and Hoku Properties of San Diego bought a historic home on Hillside Drive in La Jolla for $1.8 million, relocated it and replaced it with a $10 million, 8,910-square-foot showcase property.

Called “Essencia,” the ultramodern house has six bedrooms and seven baths, a wine cellar, home theater, saltwater vanishing-edge pool, high-tech wiring and the curvilinear architectural form that Concepto Design Group specializes in. Completed in 2006, it was listed for $21.5 million and in January 2007, San Diego Magazine published a three-page spread titled “Above It All.”

Proud of their work, the partners rejected several offers they considered too low and held out for the gold.

That turned out to be a major blunder.

The market changed, credit tightened and buyers, even those with loads of cash, were bottom-fishing for bargains.

In June, the lender, Federal Home Loans Corp., foreclosed on the property and listed it for $12.9 million.

The fall of Essencia was not a fluke. At the Union-Tribune’s request, Zillow.com identified more than 130 homes priced at $1 million or more that were foreclosed on locally from January 2007 through June this year.

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-08-12 17:40:49

I’ve got another idea for FHLC: keep dropping the price until it sells!

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 19:18:36

No kidding! Almost all liquidity problems of which I am cognizant could easily be remedied through Dutch auctions. But false hopes for cargo drops of cash dropped out of helicopters can create a powerful disincentive for testing the market’s willingness to pay.

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-08-12 12:38:23

“Delinquencies jumped even more for prime loans of more than $417,000, so-called jumbo loans. They rose to 4.03% of outstanding loans in May, compared with 1.11% a year earlier.

And prime loans issued in 2007 are performing the worst of all, failing at a rate nearly triple that of prime loans issued in 2006, according to LoanPerformance.

The extent of how bad these loans are doing is very troubling,” said Pat Newport, real estate economist with Global Insight, a forecasting firm.

Hey, I’ve got an idea. They should increase the GSE limits again. That should do the trick!

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 19:21:49

“They should increase the GSE limits again.”

That failed plan is a lasting testament to the abysmal economic ignorance of the Congress critters who believed a higher conforming loan limit would serve to restart housing price inflation, and the idiotic economic advisers who sold them on this stupidity.

 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 04:32:05

” two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 to 2005″

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080812/NEWS07/808120358

——————————————————————-
So all the “taxcuts” you were promised never made it your way. And everyone wonders why the dollar isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on while the corporatists in control of our govt. raid the US Treasury…… at your expense….. Admonish those who promise “taxcuts” who never seem to identify the primary benificiary.

Comment by hd74man
2008-08-12 05:54:05

RE: Admonish those who promise “taxcuts” who never seem to identify the primary benificiary.

No problemo for O’Bama Boy on this one…He identifies the “tax-cuts” and who is going to receive them.

What a pathetic panderer…

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080811/D92GAVIO0.html

Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 06:56:29

And the GOP pandering to corporate interests is honorable?

I call that hypocrisy HD.

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2008-08-12 05:54:50

” two thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 to 2005.”

That’s not surprising since many corporations really don’t make any money.

This statement is bound to generate a lot of flames from posters, but nevertheless it is true.

Comment by Steve W
2008-08-12 06:41:20

Absolutely true. The money goes towards bills and salaries, and the goal is to try to owe zero taxes at end of the year.

That being said, and what few realize that criticize the practice, is that guess what–anything that we earn in salaries is taxed at the normal fed rate. In a small business we don’t give “stock options” to each other, we pay taxes like everybody else, and we’re definitely not skimming the feds.

Comment by Jim A.
2008-08-12 12:25:59

What about stockholders? Presumably the people who OWN the company would be interested in some kind of Return on Investment? And paying dividends greater than profits is unlikely to work for very long..

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Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 06:36:53

but your tunes will be taxed.

If you enjoy buying music from iTunes, movies from Amazon.com’s Unbox, or computer software from anywhere, be warned: the halcyon days of tax-free digital purchases may be over.

With retail e-commerce sales now estimated to exceed $130 billion a year, and iTunes song purchases topping 5 billion, state politicians and tax collectors have begun to levy new fees on digital downloads.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10013327-38.htmll?tag=nefd.lede

Comment by calex
2008-08-12 11:13:15

As they should be. A sale is a sale and if store fronts have to collect taxes for making sales, so should internet companies.

 
 
Comment by CrackerJim
2008-08-12 06:39:51

” two-thirds of U.S. corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 to 2005″

A SubChapter S chartered corporation does not owe any taxes as the profits are taxed through the shareholders as ordinary income in the year the profits occur (LLC same). That is the US legal structure of SubS. The statement does not define if SubS corporations are included in the “2/3″ conclusion. SubS and LLC structures probably far out number C Corps, numbers not dollars of course.

 
Comment by James
2008-08-12 08:53:44

I don’t get it exeter. Do you want to tax the shareholders and their dividends or do you want to tax both?

Why don’t you just argue for a slightly different tax rate?

Please state what the optimal tax rate is (or table of taxes).
Include some calculations on why you believe this

Can you figure out what percentage of income goes to taxes now? Mine is some huge number near 50% already. So, how the heck isn’t that enough?

At some point you realize there is no incentive for working hard? Right? Or are you a communist?

I know at least 4 people from the former soviet states. Have a good long talk with them.

Right now. SS+Federal+State+phone+car+sales=40%+

Maybe government spending is the problem?

Anyhow, when you tax the people the government takes the money and spends it. If you don’t tax the people, the people take the money and spend it. Unless you want to argue some social justice issue this is a pretty dead issue for me.

Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 09:35:53

The first cry of a tax whining supply siding corporatist is “communist” or “socialist”. Do the tax whining herd a favor and save it. It plain doesn’t work anymore. Secondly, as evidenced by your statement that appears to lend support of the current corporatist/fascist finance and tax system we currently labor under, “people take that money and spend it”. Why would you want people to expend their capital? So they might be forced to borrow from the banksters and fraudsters as a means to keep them enslaved to the fascist/corporatist system? My wife and I happen to pay 40% of our earnings to the govt. You claim to pay 50% so enquiring minds want to know; Why would anyone paying 40% or more of their income to the government whine and carry on about how poor corporations and wealthy elite (I’ll wager my first born you are very very far from wealthy or elite) pay too much tax when it is the wage earning whiner himself who shoulders the increasing burden while the w-healthy elite pay less?

You’re correct on one count. It is a dead issue as there is no reasonable or logic response to my question.

Comment by James
2008-08-12 10:49:31

Here is the question part of this
Do you want to tax the shareholders and their dividends or do you want to tax both?

Why don’t you just argue for a slightly different tax rate?

Please state what the optimal tax rate is (or table of taxes).
Include some calculations on why you believe this

Can you figure out what percentage of income goes to taxes now? Mine is some huge number near 50% already. So, how the heck isn’t that enough?
I’m not some sort of “tax whining supply siding corporatist” just a normal middle class Jamesixpack. However, when you talk about taxing corporations I have questions.

How do we compare to other international laws and tax situations? Since owners of business are us lowly shareholders then aren’t you taxing us twice? The redundant structure seems unnecessary and wasteful. That is the nature of my remarks. As for your being a communist; I was being satirical to make a point.

So, your post didn’t make much sense. I guess you are saying in a very simplistic fashion that business should pay more. I’m contending that going about it in a careless manner will drive more companies out of the US and make things worse. Additionally, another bureaucracy to tax and audit companies is wasteful for little purpose.

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Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 15:04:10

Of course my post doesn’t make sense to you and you declare it is simplistic because my assertions are truthful and that truth doesn’t align with whatever ideological you subscribe to. And none of the ideological rhetoric and fear mongering such as “drive more companies out of the US” will ever change or impact the truth.

 
Comment by James
2008-08-12 16:49:39

I see you have not going to post a response to the questions.

Maybe we agree that wealth distribution has become a problem.

Got any ideas on how to fix it? Just raise tax on corporations might be a bit too simple. How will it help? Think in terms of efficiency for business in an international workplace.

Or would you rather go protectionist path?

 
Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 17:52:10

When you decide to pose a question remotely related to the article without the ideological rhetoric, we’ll all be happy to discuss it.

What was your question?

 
Comment by James
2008-08-12 18:38:21

Your statement:
So all the “taxcuts” you were promised never made it your way. And everyone wonders why the dollar isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on while the corporatists in control of our govt. raid the US Treasury…… at your expense….. Admonish those who promise “taxcuts” who never seem to identify the primary benificiary.

Look, I’m being pretty fair. Your statement implies all the tax breaks went to corporations. I’m saying so what? It pulls business into the US. We tax dividends and other capital gains. Why tax at multiple layers and drive companies offshore? Are we going to tax foreigners? Or are you proposing a protectionist measure; a tax on sales before the profits can leave the country?

Corporatists? What the heck are those? Stockholders? We employees?

You are looking at the freep and those jackasses in michigan are wrecking what is left of the economy in that state.

 
 
Comment by anon in DC
2008-08-12 11:57:01

Taxes are overhead like salaries, rent, insurances, etc… Corporations don’t pay taxes. They’re just built into the cost of goods and services. Corporations just act as a tax collector for the government. The consumers pay. Free spending politician love taxing business ’cause the tax is somewhat hidden and people complain less or complain about the high cost of goods and services.

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Comment by LVTfan
2008-08-13 09:09:48

Suppose we reduced, even eliminated our taxes on corporations’ profits — a recent GAO study suggested that they are fairly easily avoided by the use of skilled accountants — and simply placed our taxes on a few simple tax bases:

1. The value of land — ignore the improvements the owner has put on it. Just the unimproved value of the land. Treat everyone as if we believed them to be equal (this would be a 180 degree shift from California’s current practice!) and assess their land — be it residential, commercial, the Los Angeles Country Club, the Irvine properties, the docks, whatever! — at its market value.

The annual value of land is called rent, and rent doesn’t result from anything the owner has done or not done. This is one of the facts that makes rent an ideal tax base. A tax on rent doesn’t take from anyone something he/it/they created. Rather, it collects for the community that which the community created! Tax rent heavily — take, say, 5/6 of it for community purposes, and leave 1/6 for the landholder.

2. Landing rights at airports — even the US Department of Transportation is now acknowledging runway time as belonging to we-the-people, not the airlines!! They can lease it from us.

3. Parking — charge for parking, as Donald Shoup has so eloquently laid out.

4. Water rights

5. Geosynchronous orbits

6. Electromagnetic spectrum — you know, the airwaves which belong to the American people. Companies who want the exclusive use of a frequency in a certain area can lease it from us, and leases can be re-auctioned every five or ten years.

7. The right to pollute — don’t give it away. Auction off the rights, for limited periods of time, and make those who want to or must pollute compensate the rest of us for what we lose in the process. Use the proceeds to fund our common spending. The price of those rights will rise over time.

8. Royalties on non-renewable atural resources — no matter whose land they happen to be taken from, they are coming from a store that must serve all of us, and I just don’t understand why title to land gives some individuals and corporations the privilege of privatizing that value.

This is not the whole list … check out masongaffney.org or wealthandwant.com or answersanswers.com for more information.

I’m all for corporations making profits, as long as they aren’t privatizing the commons in the process. I’m all for people who work hard being rich, as long as it isn’t from charging the rest of us for the use of OUR irreplaceable natural resources. Among other things, this will increase the incentives for those who might be able to figure out how to reduce pollution.

And, by the way, we won’t have boom-bust-bubble cycles to deal with anymore. We’ll have a sustainable marketplace in homes and buildings that meet human needs.

Or we can keep doing what we’re doing and expecting different results next time. Let’s be wise, not clever. But clever is better than what we are right now.

 
 
Comment by Deflationary Jane
2008-08-12 10:50:59

Why am I not surprised? Anyone with 3 brain cells left to rub together knew those tax cuts would never reach individuals and go straight to the 1%ers and corp interests.

I still say this all smells amzingly like the ramp up effects to the Rodney King Riots. What a perfect storm for massive social discontent. Viva la revolution baby

We’re not done until a city burns.
Jane

Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-08-12 17:43:20

Hey, would that , like, you know, make room for more houses to be built?

 
 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-08-12 04:38:01

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/business/12transfer.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Leaving Wall Street for a Job Overseas

‘As Wall Street’s troubles deepen, big investment banks are moving some key employees to increasingly influential hubs of finance in Asia, the Middle East, Europe and Latin America, regions where the banks had already been building up business to tap rising growth potential.

This trend is happening alongside another that is funneling jobs from traditional financial centers like New York and London. Because of price pressure, jobs lower down the corporate ladder are moving overseas, especially India.

For many bankers, moving abroad is an experience they had always wanted. For the banks, the relocations are a way to retain skilled workers who might otherwise be caught in waves of layoffs that have already claimed 80,000 finance jobs globally.

“Banks like Morgan Stanley and Merrill Lynch are playing musical chairs,” said Gustavo G. Dolfino, president of the WhiteRock Group, a finance hiring firm. “Why are they doing this? They want to keep the talent.” ‘

“Relocating workers, while expensive, makes sense as record revenues are flowing in from places other than Wall Street. For a number of bankers, though, the moves are less voluntary.

“Some are being told, ‘I don’t care if your wife has to stay here, this is what you have to do,’ ” Mr. Dolfino said.”

***********
NYC and area real estate is going to miss these people.

Comment by palmetto
2008-08-12 05:03:56

‘As Wall Street’s troubles deepen, big investment banks are moving some key employees to increasingly influential hubs of finance in Asia, the Middle East, Europe and Latin America”

Hey, Boyz and Girlz, don’t the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

Comment by hd74man
2008-08-12 07:09:22

RE: Hey, Boyz and Girlz, don’t the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

Karma pay-backs…

Comment by Gulfstream-fixer
2008-08-12 10:22:07

“They want to keep the talent”

Hopefully, China, India, etc., will take full advantage of all this financial expertise heading their way. With any luck, they will soon have a financial system as sound and stable as the one we have here.

Or you could characterise it as “The Locusts are moving on to greener pastures.”

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-12 05:16:09

No surprise at all. Betting on the price of real estate in the age of globalization is barely short of gambling.

 
Comment by polly
2008-08-12 06:02:30

Also, when these folks orginally thought about getting located overseas for a short stint, they only ever thought about a couple of years and they were thinking of London or Paris, not Mumbai or Abu Dhabi.

Comment by palmetto
2008-08-12 06:22:27

“not Mumbai or Abu Dhabi.”

LOL! And not Sao Paulo or Mexico City either, where corporate kidnappings are not unheard of. I hope these folks get a REAL taste of the globalization they’re so fond of touting. Good luck contacting the US embassy when little Jared gets taken for a ride out to the desert for some fun and games with the locals and winds up in the Dubai pokey accused of sex crimes.

Comment by Tom
2008-08-12 06:30:51

Oh yeah, now they are getting their jobs sent to India. Too funny!

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Comment by Steve W
2008-08-12 06:50:26

Yes, and enjoy learning about “malaria prophylaxis” and “schistosomiasis”.

A silly movie, but hearing about investment bankers, etc. going to the 3rd World (or 2nd as the case may be) reminds me of Dabney Coleman at the end of “9 to 5″.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-08-12 08:35:32

I personally know three people who’ve had job offers in Abu Dhabi in the past year.

Only one of them is a businessman — one is an architect/interior designer and one is an academic. Two out of three (Mr. Businessman and The Professor) elected to go. The Professor left this week.

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Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 07:54:35

“Some are being told, ‘I don’t care if your wife has to stay here, this is what you have to do,’ ” Mr. Dolfino said.”

The joys of being owned.

Not me, I’d rather be poor and be my own boss, even if the only job I have to tell myself to do each day is to get up and make coffee.

Go where I want to go when I want to. Wage slavery is just that, slavery. And these guys are in up to their wahoos with their wahooly consumption of big houses and the luxury lifestyle.

Ahhh, give me a campfire and a pan of bad coffee and the stars and a tree I can hang my hat on (and no, it’s not a Stetson, but rather an organic cotton blue sunvisor from Rim Cyclery in Moab). :)

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 08:12:30

Speaking of jobs, I’m gonna become a movie director. I have the experience I need, I once was Extras Director for a real movie, so now I know it all, and not watching movies means my work will be fresh and original (the last movie I saw was Groundhog Day, I keep watching it over and over). I’m looking for investors, if anyone’s interested. Guaranteed return (though maybe not in money).

It will be called “Fall from Grace” and will star a cast of thousands.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 11:59:56

Funny Lost, very funny.

“(the last movie I saw was Groundhog Day, I keep watching it over and over)”

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Comment by deeogee
2008-08-12 20:29:50

“Not me, I’d rather be poor and be my own boss, even if the only job I have to tell myself to do each day is to get up and make coffee. ”

Ditto! –though I’d rather tell someone else to make the coffee and bring me a green tea.

 
 
Comment by salinasron
2008-08-12 08:56:12

“Why are they doing this? They want to keep the talent.” ‘

Seems to me you’d want to get rid of them as their thinking will always be old school (last eight years). For a company to go forward you’d want new talent that was based in reality.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-08-12 09:37:59

The parasites have killed the current host, so now they are moving on to a new one.

Comment by Deflationary Jane
2008-08-12 11:06:27

So they move them overseas, oh that will be fun for all involved. Ever spent any time in Mexico city? Talk the separation of the haves from the have nots. It’s spooky.

Let them run the markets up there and displace the locals through a gentrification on steriods pogrom. Let’s see how safe these parasites are when faced with social discontent in a distant location absent from the protection of US jurisprudence.

It’s not over until a city burns,
Jane
(yes I’m in a mood today)

 
 
 
Comment by bizarroworld
2008-08-12 04:40:03

Most companies in US avoid federal income taxes

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080812/corporations_income_tax.html

More than 38,000 foreign corporations had no tax liability in 2005 and 1.2 million U.S. companies paid no income tax, the GAO said. Combined, the companies had $2.5 trillion in sales. About 25 percent of the U.S. corporations not paying corporate taxes were considered large corporations, meaning they had at least $250 million in assets or $50 million in receipts.

Too bad the middle class and small businesses can’t find these loopholes. This is another reason why it’s hard to listen to whining corporate types who scream of unfair US taxation for pushing them and their operations offshore. Government for the corporation, by the corporation…

Comment by palmetto
2008-08-12 05:22:06

“Government for the corporation, by the corporation…”

I believe that’s one definition of fascism.

Comment by bizarroworld
2008-08-12 06:00:29

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

 
 
Comment by ronin
2008-08-12 05:58:54

Why should we assume that small businesses don’t make up the MAJORITY of these corporations?

If small, closely-held businesses pay out all their revenue in expenses, salary, and benefits, their tax liability can easily be zero.

Too, taxes on businesses are based on profit. If they don’t make a profit, they don’t pay taxes. How is it a loophole?

Comment by polly
2008-08-12 06:06:14

The “profit” they report on their tax return is vastly different than the profit they report on their books. The division has existed for a long time and it is by design. But telling public corportations that if they want to have no income for taxes, they have to tell their shareholders that they had no income for the year, would set up a very interesting tension in the reporting.

Comment by WHYoung
2008-08-12 06:23:58

And as the old brokerage advertisement said “It’s not what you earn it’s what you keep”… Some smaller businesses “subsidize” the owners lifestyle in many ways…

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Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 06:41:30

Right on Polly. Those poor corporations. They understate their income to the IRS, thus ripping the US Treasury and overstate their income to Wall Street, further ripping off another group.

The shrinking minority of apologists for the corporatists sound more pathetic by the day.

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Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-08-12 08:16:15

Not that I am defending the corporations, but I there is no such thing as “ripping the US Treasury” unless you are referring to those in government that are spending our country into bankruptcy.

No one OWES anything to the government and all taxes are theft.

It would be like complaining that a small business is “ripping the Mob” by reporting they have no money to pay for “protection”.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 08:59:03

All taxes are theft eh Dan? Then services rendered to you without payment likewise is theft. No offense but your libertarian utopia is a fantasy.

 
Comment by polly
2008-08-12 09:57:37

And Virginia Tech is a publicly supported university. I’m sure they will be delighted to let you pay for whatever portion of your education was not covered by tuition.

Taxes are what we pay for participating in a civil society. How much of the structure that is required for that society should be provided by the government (how much public spending and on what) and how to properly allocate the responsibility (what should the tax/fee for service system should look like) are all up for debate, but that there is some need for public spending at some level and that it must be paid for eventually is not.

 
Comment by patient renter
2008-08-12 10:13:07

services rendered to you without payment likewise is theft

The problem is that while my tax dollars can be thieved (yes, I consider it theft too), the resulting services are typically NOT directed towards me. Thus, I can generally and rightly call the taking of my tax dollars, theft.

 
Comment by polly
2008-08-12 12:03:39

Renter,

Call me when you are willing to have it published in the newspaper that no murders, rapists or thieves that decide to invade your home will ever be stopped by police, prosecuted, jailed or otherwise punished by society. You can handle 100% of your home security yourself (that private security company can’t call the police on your behalf). Oh, and you’ll have to wear a sign board when you walk around town providing notice that your person isn’t protected either or you will benefit from the implication that everyone has police protection. And you will have to walk because you can’t use your car on public roads. And you can’t walk on public sidewalks, so you can negotiate a toll with all private land owners for walking on their land (permission for which they can deny no matter how much you are willing to pay). And that is just the start.

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-08-12 12:14:55

I would love to be in the position to dictate how much you must pay me to provide you with services you never asked for. This is little different than the guys that ambush you at a red light, wash your windows, and then expect payment for the service they provided or the cable company monopolies that make you buy bundled services to get the one channel you care about.

Only when I have a choice as to wether or not to pay for a service is it legitimate and not theft.

To be fair I did not develop my political philosophy until years after I graduated from VT. I will not send my children to government schools because I will not steal from you to educate indoctrinate my children with government propaganda.

Finally, so long as the services I choose to receive from the government are less than the total that is stolen from me I have no moral problem accepting their “gifts”. I can do this while still condemning the government for stealing the money in the first place and only become a hypocrite if I demand the service for free.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 16:52:09

I’m sorry but I have to ask you Dan. How old are you? Do you have children?

 
 
 
Comment by bizarroworld
2008-08-12 06:18:21

I was thinking more of the self employed contractor, plumber type, mom and pop store, etc.; not small corporations.

While I’m no accountant and don’t play one on TV, can’t these corporations find enough expense loopholes to offset any profits? They can hire 250k a year accountants to “manage” the books as needed since a penalty from the IRS is less and less likely. The following is a couple years old, but it shows how enforcement of tax code is shoddy at best:

Slip-Sliding Away
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_30/c3944066_mz013.htm
While abusive tax shelters are a top enforcement priority, the IRS still misses many scams. The IRS Oversight Board, an independent panel created by Congress, reports that in 2004 the agency pursued only 18% of known cases of abusive tax shelters and failed to collect at least $447 million, in part because it can’t afford to battle more miscreant taxpayers in court. And negligence penalties against corporations have plummeted from 1,234 a decade ago to just 25 in 2004, according to TRAC.

 
 
Comment by Evil Capitalist
2008-08-12 06:35:26

Too bad most people neither read the study nor are capable of understanding US tax code:

The study lumps S-corps and C-corps together. Most of the US corporations are S-corps, not C-corps. S-corps are pass-through entities and the owners pay the taxes for the S-corps on the individual tax returns.

Comment by CrackerJim
2008-08-12 06:44:59

I agree.
Signed:
A SubChaper S owner.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 08:12:38

Evil,

So who are the owners of S-corps in large corporations?

Comment by polly
2008-08-12 08:37:43

Large corps don’t generally use S-corps for structuring. S-corps are subject to significant limits on number of share holders, etc. If a large corp wants to set up a separate entity that has corporate “personhood” but is taxed as a pass through entity, it will almost always use an LLC (limited liability corporation) that checks the box to be taxed as a partnership.

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Comment by Evil Capitalist
2008-08-12 11:59:58

Really? A corporation can own a sub-chapter S corp?
Chapter and verse please?

(Obviously excluding non-profits).

 
Comment by polly
2008-08-12 12:34:14

I’m sure that someone has come up with a way for some sort of trust interest that is eventually beneficially owned by a c-corp to be involved in an s-corp structure for a short time. I’m trained as a tax lawyer. I put a “generally” in front of everything. And the s-corp rules were liberalized at a time when I wasn’t paying much attention to them. S-corps are a big deal for small businesses for historical reasons, but not really important now.

If you will notice, what I *really* said was that c-corps use LLCs taxed as partnerships when they want a pass through entity. Learn to read.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2008-08-12 12:34:19

Don’t argue tax law with Polly, unless that’s YOUR profession too…

 
Comment by barbarus
2008-08-12 13:57:17

“I’m trained as a tax lawyer. I put a “generally” in front of everything.”

Then “generally” you’re talking your book when you praise the concept of taxation Polly.

 
Comment by polly
2008-08-12 14:39:42

If you can figure out a way to have a society with zero public spending or a way to finance public spending without the government raising funds from the citizenry in some way, I’d be delighted to hear about it. Just note that conquering other places and enslaving/exploiting their peoples and resources to extract needed funds was tried by the Spain and Portugal in this hemisphere, but that was a while ago and probably wouldn’t work today.

And the organizations I work with now *generally* don’t pay much in taxes, at least not in income taxes. My deepest involvement with individual taxes comes in April, just like most of the rest of wage earners in this country, though I try to get it done in February or March when I can.

And please note that I did say that the amounts involved and the method of getting it is all up for debate, but that it needs to exist in some form unless you want to wipe out most of the human population of the planet and go back to a hunter/gatherer society. I think that is fairly obvious.

My biggest objection to the whole “taxes are theft” meme is that it is so boring. You want to say taxes are too high? Fine. Taxes don’t have to be theft to make that argument. Go ahead and defend the idea. Say what spending is not needed; show how much money it saves; get down and dirty with the numbers. You want to argue for a flat tax? OK. You don’t need tax to be theft for that either (though I disagree). It is just a rhetorical trick. Rhetorical tricks may resonate with a chunk of the population and they are great for sound bites, but they aren’t logic. They are lazy.

 
Comment by Evil Capitalist
2008-08-12 16:44:22

There are parts of the tax code that are rather simple because they are clearly defined.

S-corp is one of those pretty clear cut cases.

Lawers like to argue that things are a lot more complicated then they are because if the public realized just how simple most of things were a lot of lawers would be doing of business.

 
Comment by James
2008-08-12 17:56:00

Polly,

You can just print money every year and work from that. Taxes everybody in the form of inflation.

Save a lot of time looking at books too.

Sounds pretty sick doesn’t it. We pretty much already do that with treasuries.

 
Comment by jim a
2008-08-12 19:34:51

So why is it that the “taxes are theft,” people have politics so unlike the “property is theft.” types? They’re both using similar hyperbole.

 
 
Comment by Evil Capitalist
2008-08-12 08:54:35

S-corps have very specific restrictions on the structure ownership structure which prevents other corporations/corporate structures to own them:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S_corporation

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Comment by dude
2008-08-12 09:46:20

I’ll support this theory as well. My day job is with a closely held S-corp. There are about 300 employees and the business does about 50 million/annum profit. this get taxed at the shareholder level.

There are many,many “large” S-corps out there because if you aren’t needing to raise money selling shares this structure is by far the most beneficial, tax-wise.

Comment by polly
2008-08-12 12:46:58

They are mostly there for historical reasons - why change what isn’t broken. Now that a lot of states (especially Delaware) have well developed laws that LLC’s do, in fact, create limited liability, people would tend to use those instead (electing to have them treated as pass throughs for tax purposes). There just isn’t any real reason to use a structure with s-corp limits when you can get the same thing without them. That being said, there is also no reason to pay a bunch of lawyers to convert a perfectly functional s-corp to an LLC if you don’t care about the restrictions.

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Comment by milkcrate
2008-08-12 09:46:58

Capitalist…
Thanks for making the distinction. A family member owns a Subchapter S corp. (medical). Earnings move onto federal income tax returns. Taxes paid are enormous. We don’t mind paying for roads, schools, a National Guard and so on. We have moral regrets about where a lot of the money goes. The image of Colin Powell, addressing the United Nations with his WMD maps, comes to mind.
Yes, there is no question that Congress boosts big corps. at the expense of others.
We pay way more than our share of housing convicted illegal residents who are rotting in California jails. And for entitlements of all sorts. Help the needy, sure, support a welfare state - don’t want to.

Comment by patient renter
2008-08-12 10:19:44

We pay way more than our share of housing convicted illegal residents who are rotting in California jails

I was in a little town in Socal over the weekend where I heard an anecdote about the State requisitioning local housing in typical residential neighborhoods for accused foreigners accused of drug trafficing crimes, awaiting charges and extradition or whatnot. Apparently shortly after being put up in their taxpayer funded rent free unsupervised digs, they bolted, and the housing currently sits unoccupied waiting for the next criminal inhabitants.

Sure glad to be paying those taxes, eh?

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Comment by James
2008-08-12 17:59:55

Or perhaps hospitals creating massive amounts of welfare fraud here in LA. We just had a big bust.

On the other hand their are plenty of people that are just in dire need of help.

So, you have to pick your poison.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Homoaner
2008-08-12 04:42:42

Apartment building foreclosures putting families on the street:

“In the first six months of the year, 27 percent more homeless families came to the county for help than in the same period last year…While foreclosure is having an effect, very few of the families that need shelter are homeowners who lost homes to foreclosure, county officials said. But when foreclosed apartments put poor people on the street and they begin looking for a new apartment, they may find themselves competing with people who once owned homes. Recent reports have put the apartment vacancy rate in Minneapolis at between 3 and 4 percent, with rents rising.”
http://www.startribune.com/local/west/26852669.html?page=1&c=y

Comment by Kmfdm Rules
2008-08-12 07:30:31

I do not understand why when a bank forecloses on occupied rental property (either SFH or multi-family) they kick the tenants out instead of assuming ownership and collecting the rent themselves while they look for a new buyer.

It makes more sense how to kick everyone out and sit on a vacant apartment building the produces no income and just sits waiting to be vandalized?

Now any prospective buyer will have to find tenants - an apartment building that already has tenants is much more attractive to investors…

Comment by kidbuck
2008-08-12 08:02:16

Too many head aches and liabilities? You going to call the bank when the toilet backs up? Banks would have to carry insurance and attend to who knows how many other details.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-08-12 09:01:50

Yep, this is the real problem.

Banks are in the business of lending money not dealing with backed-up toilets. And the same thing will lead to them finally dumping them for whatever they can get for them.

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Comment by Xenos
2008-08-12 11:37:09

If the banks are not willing to run an apartment building, or to hire management to run it, then they should not be taking apartment buildings as security for loans.

I don’t know where these evictions are taking place, though. I have seen it tried in Massachusetts, and the judge was having none of it: “you bought the building, you bought the tenants.”

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Comment by bizarroworld
2008-08-12 04:53:24

JPMorgan loses $1.5 billion since July
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080812/jpmorgan_outlook.html

JPMorgan said trading conditions have “substantially deteriorated” in the third quarter compared with that of the second, and spreads on mortgage-backed securities and loans have “sharply widened.” The estimated losses exclude hedging, the firm said.

In a research note to clients on Tuesday, Lehman Brothers cut its 2008 earnings estimates for JPMorgan to $2.30 a share from $2.60, but maintained its “overweight” rating and $50 price target on the stock

Losing 1.5 billion in two weeks is not a sign of good things to come. How long can they lose like this before Uncle Ben drops by with free money? And how can anyone trust the ramblings of Lehman?

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 08:16:53

I always admired JP Morgan, as founding breeder of the beautiful Morgan horse. As for the rest of these yahoos, he’d be ashamed to have his name affiliated with such horsesh*t. :)

Comment by polly
2008-08-12 08:43:49

I had a book when I was a kid called “Justin Morgan had a Horse.” And I read a biography of John Pierpont Morgan when I was volunteering on a radio show in NYC.

Both were interesting, but I think the Justin Morgan book gave me a lot more pleasure….

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 08:50:40

Margeurite (sp) Henry. That book had beautiful artwork.

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Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 09:53:45

The loss was from July and was a result of the Merrill sell of the CDOs. JPMorgan owns the same worthless crap and wrote it down. No great shakes. The disconcerting point is that from its acquisition of Bear Stearns it inherited another $45B in level 3 assets. Oops

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-08-12 10:04:38

According to the filing, JPMorgan held $16.3 billion of legacy leveraged loans and unfunded commitments as of June 30.

“Leveraged loans and unfunded commitments are difficult to hedge effectively, and if market conditions further deteriorate, additional markdowns may be necessary on this asset class,” the company said.

how long before these guys start tapping into the back-up money the FED has promised them?

 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2008-08-12 05:02:24

High-end foreclosures:

http://tinyurl.com/6yysu4

“Called “Essencia,” the ultramodern house has six bedrooms and seven baths, a wine cellar, home theater, saltwater vanishing-edge pool, high-tech wiring and the curvilinear architectural form that Concepto Design Group specializes in. Completed in 2006, it was listed for $21.5 million and in January 2007, San Diego Magazine published a three-page spread titled “Above It All.” In June, the lender, Federal Home Loans Corp., foreclosed on the property and listed it for $12.9 million.”

That’s potentially quite a haircut.

“Maxine Gellens, a longtime La Jolla real estate agent, said high-end foreclosures are no different from those involving $200,000 starter condominiums whose values have fallen below loan balances or whose monthly payments have become unsustainable.”

“If you overextend or borrow too much, it doesn’t matter what the price of the property is, you’ll see that differential and you’re not going to be able to sell it,” Gellens said.

“DataQuick searched public records to identify the most expensive foreclosures in the county, using Zillow as well as its own findings, and came up with the 23 most expensive properties.”

“They include five properties each in La Jolla and Rancho Santa Fe, four in Carmel Valley, two each in Del Mar and Encinitas and one each in Bonita, downtown San Diego, Jamul, Point Loma and Poway.”

“The homes were purchased between August 1997 and December 2006 with prices from $635,000 to $7,450,000, according to county records.”

“A check of addresses, court records and employment data revealed that the owners included business executives, real estate experts, partnerships, a teacher and others. Most could not be reached, and none would speak on the record.”

 
Comment by IllinoisBob
2008-08-12 05:19:34

Where did all the gold NUTS go?

Gold, Platinum Lead Commodities Into Bear Market on Growth Risk

Aug. 12 (Bloomberg) — Gold, platinum and silver plunged to their lowest in more than seven months, leading commodities into a deeper bear market, on concern that a spreading global economic slowdown will reduce demand for raw materials.

Precious metals also slumped as crude-oil prices fell and the dollar gained, reducing their appeal as an inflation hedge and alternative investment. Gold has tumbled 22 percent from its record $1,032.70 on March 17. Platinum and silver are down 35 percent and 33 percent from their peaks.

Comment by IllinoisBob
Comment by David Cee
2008-08-12 07:50:55

“Investor Jim Rogers, 65, who in April 2006 correctly predicted oil would reach $100 and gold $1,000, differs. The fundamentals for commodities are “astoundingly” good and the bull market “has a long way to go,” he said Aug. 6.”

Betcha, Jim is a little nervous with his money tied up in oil and gold. Same old bubble talk “We are different”.

Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 09:27:47

I doubt very much if Mr. Jim Rogers is nervous. The investor put his moneys down before 2006. After a 300% run-up, a 30% drop is no reason to sell a commodities bull market. I traded on the floor of the CBOT in the ’70s bull market - you ain’t seen nothing yet. I happen to agree with his fundamental analysis. I am still long the same commodities I bought in 2005, I am still up for the year in these commodities. I am still looking at acquiring more on this pullback.

I do not trade or have any interest in gold or PMs.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-12 05:26:42

Oh, now you’ve gone and done it!

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2008-08-12 05:35:06

It’s more constructive to look at what the market is doing and not call people names. I ran a metals and currency blog for a few years and I’ve had this discussion before, but it’s worth revisiting.

I bought my first metals in 1985. What I learned over the years is gold goes up, gold goes down, and then it happens again. Or sometimes it stays flat amd drifts for months and years. There is a tendency to think it is going to the moon every time it breaks out to the upside. But this would probably be a result of a financial crisis we haven’t ever seen. It could happen; which is why I look at gold as an insurance policy. You hope you don’t need it, but it’s there. And like insurance, how much is too much?

Some of the posters here are trading in metals, not holding it like insurance. As far as the recent spike up; what I see is a lot of people that could have taken profits. Did they? Or were they betting on a once in a lifetime dollar collapse?

Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 05:54:46

As a buyer, and never a seller, I can answer some questions.

“As far as the recent spike up; what I see is a lot of people that could have taken profits.”

You could have sold the move from 400 to 600, or 600 to 800, or 800 to 1000. The long term chart is in an uptrend so there have been many opportunities to sell at rising prices. I expect there will be more. I would rather buy a dip than sell a rise. And I don’t want to be paid in a collapsing fiat currency.

“Or were they betting on a once in a lifetime dollar collapse?”

Again, the USD chart tells the story. It’s more of a permanent dollar collapse, for years and years, with the occasional counter-trend USD rally. If someone is looking for a spike to sell, may I suggest the current unsustainable parabolic USD spike? I doubt that will continue for long.

Just another way of looking at things.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 06:39:02

Some folks like to buy and hold paper, others like to buy and hold metal, some like to employ rocket-science derivatives-based strategies and still others like to bury their heads in the sand as they spend their way into perpetual, unrepayable debt.

To each his own.

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Comment by lucy
2008-08-12 06:01:52

Fair points, the the price colapse has been huge this week> Is gold really just following oil down? Program trading? And does anyone know if volume of gold traded increased significantly? I don’t know if this data is publicly available.

 
Comment by Tom
2008-08-12 06:03:44

Exactly Ben. You have to know when to be Bullish and when to be Bearish. The people who are always one or the other usually end up not doing so well over the long haul as their holdings just “average” out. Those who know how to be “traders” though end up doing ok if they can time things right.

 
Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 06:10:24

I think this is the right way to look at gold. I think those who are betting on a collapse of the United States don’t take into consideration the vast global consequences that would have. This country is an economic and military empire as vast as anything the world has ever seen. There will be no safe haven if we collapse, in gold or anything else.

Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 06:24:45

The Romans, the Mongols, the British, every empire falls. As for global consequences, most of the world will cheer the end of this empire as they always do. People don’t like being ruled by empires.

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Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 06:46:54

My point is not that this empire could not fall, it is that gold will not protect your wealth if this happens (nothing will). As far as people cheering, I doubt the Europeans will be cheering when they are left to the tender mercies of Russia, China and whoever else decides to take pieces of that continent.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-08-12 07:09:34

What does this country produce, aside from consumers, new homes that nobody wants, and war weaponry?

We lost our way long ago, and it’s becoming more evident every day…

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-08-12 07:37:04

The Romans, the Mongols, the British, every empire falls.

Every empire falls eventually, but not every empire collapses. It’s an important distinction. The slope of the fall and severity of the empire’s demise is worth studying.

The British Empire, for example, contracted and was greatly diminished — but it’s difficult to argue that the UK is still not an important player in politics, finance, the arts and many other realms.

While we face some rough waters in the short term, and the US will almost certainly be a diminished global player in the next century, those that bet on a complete implosion of this particular empire are, in my opinion, not reading the tea leaves too well.

 
Comment by patient renter
2008-08-12 10:26:05

My point is not that this empire could not fall

I can’t agree there. As was pointed out, all empires fall, and all fiat currencies fail.

 
Comment by James
2008-08-12 10:59:11

The empire might continue for a while yet. Figure we are happily removed from the eventual Europe/China/Russia/Middle East/India/Pakistan conflagration.

Sit back and enjoy. Just wait and then we go in for the side most likely to win.

Remember our hegemony has only been around for two decades and we are a small country. All those fellas in Russia and China have big big plans. Once they start to move there is little we can do except promote balance and slow the carnage.

 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 11:09:21

“One financial Armageddon is entirely, easily predictable: the bankruptcy of government in the USA, at every level: federal, state, county and city. The prediction follows from very simple mathematics: entitlements which grow at 8% a year cannot be supported by an economy which grows at 3% or less.”
Charles Hugh Smith

 
Comment by Mole Man
2008-08-12 20:27:53

We produced the Internet. If nothing else, you should respect your medium.

 
 
 
Comment by mikey
2008-08-12 06:46:25

There is a always some inherent risk everthing we buy today and even owning the heavy stuff that shines yellow and is .9999 fine doesn’t guarrantee….it’s financial risks :)

 
Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-08-12 06:48:54

I am one of those “nuts” on this blog.

In 1974 I started to trade South African gold ADRs for my own account. From 1977 through 1982 I lived in Manhattan and worked as a Comex broker at the WTC.

Most of the time gold and silver are like the Grand Central-Times Square shuttle. They go one place and then come back. You can try to make money in the process. Over longer periods of time, due to the nature of deficit spending, inflation, and fiat currency, the prices of precious metals as measured in dollars has tended to rise.

I believe the recent crash of PM prices is mostly to do with the unwinding of crude oil and dollar hedges as the PTB directly intervened in the markets. As the over-leveraged as a targeted group are forced to abandon their positions, the intervention succeeds.

For myself, I have added some silver in the 14’s. The silver market is my primary interest these days. Driving down the price of silver in dollars is always attractive to the US government and its big banking friends. However, overselling “paper” silver can result in a physical shortage of “real” silver.

So yes, guilty as charged, I am one of those silver nuts, out in left field, with those crazy theories about supply and demand, monetary debasement, politics and the Federal Reserve.

Mothers, don’t let your sons grow up to be PM bugs.

Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 07:56:25

I’m buying silver here too. Down 20% in 5 trading days. I like it.

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Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 05:42:29

The peanut gallery calling people nuts?

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the the universe. - Albert Einstein

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-08-12 06:02:40

‘The peanut gallery calling people nuts’

Hey, you sort of asked for that with the constant gold only goes up stuff. How about explaining your price expectations, etc, and leave the name calling behind?

 
Comment by mikey
2008-08-12 06:49:33

The only TWO smart people left in the world are you and me..and sometimes I wonder about you :)

 
 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2008-08-12 05:49:37

Yes, the bull market for commodities is over for good. It will never come back. Actually during every global slowdown there a bunch of elfs that replenish all the used up raw materials like oil, copper, uranium and natural gas. Isn’t that a true miracle? Go out and reward yourself with a SUV. If you got some cash left over I recommend buying Ford and GM stocks. The SUV will be back with a vengance once gas drops to $1. The glory days are back agina. Really, soon there will be so much oil that they will actually pay you to take it off their hands.
Ain’t life wonderful?

Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 06:42:21

I don’t think anyone here is saying that there will never be another bull market for commodities. Commodity bulls have been acting like the laws of supply and demand do not apply oil and other commodities. The same people who have been arguing that the US is in a long term economic down turn (something I happen to agree with) have been saying we are going to have $200 a barrel oil. The US accounts for about 25% of the world’s economy; with a contracting US economy, it stands to reason that we could see declines in oil prices at least over the next year or so.

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2008-08-12 06:02:22

So, is this a buying opportunity or not? For those who want to buy gold this price dip should be welcomed.

Isn’t buy low, sell high what the game is all about? If so then gold bugs should be estatic, no?

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-08-12 06:43:30

If one looks at it as insurance, the lower the price the better.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 06:53:44

If you look at it as insurance, then now is not the time to buy, one year into a so-called “credit crunch” which has the world financial market in a perpetual state of panic. The time to buy insurance is when no calamity is on the horizon — unless you are 100 pct certain this is the big one :-)

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Comment by combotechie
2008-08-12 07:21:45

With an insurance policy there are fundamentals available that allows one to rationally price the policy. These fundamentals are closely associated with probabilities.

But as far as I can tell there are no fundamentals associated with gold prices, no rational basis that one can use to determine just what the price of gold should be. The way I see it the only way to determine the value of gold is by its price, thus whatever the price of gold is the correct price, which is sort of nuts.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 08:10:22

“But as far as I can tell there are no fundamentals associated with gold prices, no rational basis that one can use to determine just what the price of gold should be.”

Ditto for stocks, real estate, bonds and any other assets whose prices an activist central bank manipulates.

 
Comment by kidbuck
2008-08-12 08:14:02

With an insurance policy there are fundamentals available that allows one to rationally price the policy. These fundamentals are closely associated with probabilities.

But as far as I can tell there are no fundamentals associated with fiat money prices, no rational basis that one can use to determine just what the price of fiat money should be. The way I see it the only way to determine the value of fiat money is by its price, thus whatever the price of fiat money is the correct price, which is sort of nuts.

There, isn’t that more sensible?

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-08-12 08:40:32

If you want to increase your power over the population then you must control the food. If you believe (as I do) that the powers that be (having all the money they can print) want nothing more than all the power they can gain then how do you think they will get that power? First you promise something for nothing and once you have bankrupted the country you ration out food for allegiance.

If you have gold / silver, but no food or guns then the government owns you and you have lost your freedom.

In my book, wealth is freedom and poverty is slavery. From this it is CLEAR that gold and silver are not insurance *during the collapse* but may retain their purchasing power after things recover. If you want to “get rich” during the collapse then you want to try another strategy.

Besides, what good is it if gold goes to $3,000 / oz if bread costs $300 / loaf? You did better than the poor J6P who investments declined, but you didn’t really increase your wealth!

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-08-12 08:45:49

I meant to say freedom is wealth and slavery is poverty.

 
 
 
Comment by Halifax
2008-08-12 09:51:40

So, is this a buying opportunity or not? For those who want to buy gold this price dip should be welcomed.
______________________________________________________

I bought gold eagles yesterday as gifts for my employees and to donate for a fundraiser (head-injured nurse needing rehabilitation).

 
Comment by tutto incognito
2008-08-12 09:54:29

Yes, I am. I only turn my dollars into PM.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-08-12 07:18:09

I’m a decade trader and don’t worry about short term trends that make no sense (DJIA up and away on dire financial news?) and will wait until the end of the race, as i’ve never yet seen anybody that could cash a ticket on a 1 1/4 mile race, based upon who was leading after 2 furlongs…

Patience

Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 08:30:15

“i’ve never yet seen anybody that could cash a ticket on a 1 1/4 mile race, based upon who was leading after 2 furlongs…”

That is the reason for the derivatives market. Offset your ticket and hedge when you are ahead at 2 furlongs. Buy your hedge back at the half (when your trailing) and if you do it right, your pony pulls ahead by a nose at the line! LOL I love British racing touts with continuous wagering boards during the race.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-08-12 16:42:11

I liked going to the ponies in Australia and having the choice of betting with the tote board, or with a bookie on-course.

There would be a dozen or so bookies, all eagerly looking at each other and the tote, oftentimes offering just a little bit more than track odds, and if somebody bet a bundle, they’d lower the odds and the other bookies would follow suit.

Powers of observation are a must, and each bookie would have 2 or 3 employees looking for tiny advantages or changes in the action.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-08-12 08:51:09

The three stages of an investment:

[1] It’s a really great investment.
[2] I’m really in it for the long-term.
[3] Somebody, anybody, please give me a bid.

 
 
 
Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 05:42:46

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121850371670731857.html?mod=todays_columnists

I wonder if the decline in property prices will put a dent in eminent domain thefts. It seems like it is always “luxury condos” that going to built in places where the government takes property in this manner. With the glut of condos on the market, maybe developers will eventually not be so anxious to build more.

“In their ruling, the judges unanimously reversed a lower-court decision giving the city of Long Branch a green light to pursue its redevelopment plan. That has put a serious crimp into the city’s hopes for taking the homes of about a dozen longtime residents — and turning them over to a developer to put up luxury condos in their place.”

Comment by palmetto
2008-08-12 06:16:34

“Probably the worst was the 2005 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Kelo v. City of New London. In that case, the high court ruled that the Connecticut town was within its rights to take Susette Kelo’s waterfront house on the grounds of economic redevelopment.”

Ah, it SO warmed the cockles of my heart to read that article posted on the blog a few weeks back about how New London’s tax revenues were in the crapper. That land now sits empty, where’s all the waterfront development with all the “upscale” residential, office and retail for New London? I hope a bunch of squatters pitch tents and cardboard boxes there.

Comment by palmetto
2008-08-12 06:33:12

Make way for a new tent city (or yurts, since this is New England)

http://www.bizzyblog.com/2008/06/03/the-kelo-new-london-calamity-continues-barren-land/

Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 06:54:19

An absolute shame, the city of New London has been in a long down turn. It was a town that employed a lot of defense industry employees and just about all of that is now gone. Fort Trumbull was one of the areas that was relatively nice, so of course the city decided to demolish it.

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Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 06:50:24

Good urban planning requires large parcels. I do not necessarily have a problem with cities giving the green light to bulldoze crime ridden s*tholes and have developers turn the area into a slice of urban bliss. Im not saying that is what is happening in every case, just saying I dont have a problem with the concept. I have driven through many bad urban areas with great locations and thought what great potential exists if large parcels could be put together for redevelopment. I support beautiful, well planned urban areas with easy access. It is much better than urban sprawl and I would like to see more of it rather than less. Note that I am not in favor of tearing down beautiful old homes to put up stucco boxes, just crap into platinum.

Please dont give me any BS about free markets. I have always lived in urban areas in there are always a few jerks that try to hold out for 4X what the FMV of their house is - thwarting efforts to improve the area based on selfishness and greed. The government just needs to get sure they get paid FMV plus maybe a slight premium for the inconvenience. I always would support the government targeting the worst neighborhoods for such projects. Why should the poor enjoy the best real estate and keep a city from realizing its full potential?

Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 06:57:27

Did you read the story that was with the link Palmetto posted? The lots that were taken via eminent domain are still vacant.

“Why should the poor enjoy the best real estate and keep a city from realizing its full potential?” Please tell me this is satire.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-12 07:16:26

It’s not satire…it’s “revanchism”.

The city has been undergoing big changes lately as globalization favors further concentration. Me? I’m skeptical of all this. Who exactly are these new cities for anyway? Are they sustainable environmentally, socially, and economically?

Right now I see a bunch of yups trying to recreate Sesame Street sans Oscar.

 
Comment by palmetto
2008-08-12 07:21:17

From what I understand, it isn’t the “poor” who get the shaft in cases like these, but modest folk who own waterfront cottages or small homes that have been in their family for years. They love having a little slice of heaven and why not?

Some developer in the Sarasota area said the same thing when he purchased a mobile home park on the Myakka River and all the residents had to leave. He said that mobile homes had no business being on the waterfront. From an insurance or storm damage perspective, I might agree, but his reasoning was that people of modest means had no right to waterfront property.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 07:41:03

I think there is some confusion between the stories posted and the legal concepts involved. Whether or not the new project will be successful is not an appropriate decision for the courts. Their issue is the more simple concept of whether cities should have the right to bulldoze underperforming areas and replace them with ones cities believe will be great performers by handing them over to developers. Over the last few decades the middle classes have been pushed out of our cities through violence and intimidation. I love urban life and cities, and have no problem fighting back. I have a feeling that lots of these comments are from suburban or rural liberals that dont understand the issues involved. I am an urban liberal that has had many friends fallen victim to gang related violence. Listen to stories of those beaten, stabbed, raped and shot by gang members and harmed by drug related crime, and then tell me how much these areas are worth preserving. As I said, what neighborhoods to target and what projects to accept are issues for the city to decide not the courts. I was addressing the legal issue of what rights cities should have in this regard, not the issue of whether they exercised them correctly or the particular cities in the stories as to which I have no knowledge. Nor was I saying all poor ppl are criminal or live in dangerious neighborhoods. I was merely pointing out the obvious that there are certain areas in almost every major city for which bulldozing and rebuilding would be the best outcome. My comment was merely one of the soundness of the legal decision.

I believe our cities are too important to let fail under the guise of political correctness.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-08-12 07:57:28

Why should the poor enjoy the best real estate and keep a city from realizing its full potential?

Its full potential? — Meaning, like, a Starbucks on every corner, SUV-sized parking as far as the eye can see, and a high density of blond mommies with strollers?

Sounds like heaven.

Unfortunately, that’s the same philosophical tack that was used in Kelo and dozens of other benighted eminent domain takeovers. During the boom, eminent domain was used to justify property theft from less wealthy or politically astute citizens, plain and simple.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 08:10:01

That might be your meaning of full potential, but it certainly is not mine. I live in cities because I like the diversity of ppl, ideas and things to do. Why do you think cities have to be either overpriced areas with a Starbucks, PF Changs and Cheese Cake factory or a crime filled blighted area? I cant imagine anything further from the truth. I did not define urban bliss because my idea of urban bliss is one that is a reasonably safe and pedestrian friendly place with its own unique vibe and character, and thus does not fit into any particular mold as it should be unique to that particular area. I think that is what is so great about great urban areas in is that they blow away your preconceptions and expectations.

 
Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 08:15:27

I happen to live in an urban area and I have never seen eminent domain used in a way that does anything other than enrich developers. If people aren’t secure in their property rights we are all less free. The last thing I want is someone like you determining who is and isn’t an appropriate resident of any particular area.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 08:23:32

People like me? You know virtually nothing about me. How do you know what projects I would support or not support? Bigotry and closed mindedness in the morning is always appreciated.

 
Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 08:29:29

Here is how I define someone like you: Someone who believes it’s ok to confiscate someone’s home to build luxury condos, someone who believes it is within the legitimate purview of government to drive poor and working class people out of their homes, someone who doesn’t respect the rights of individuals.

I’m not sure how that makes me a bigot.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-08-12 08:42:47

I happen to live in an urban area and I have never seen eminent domain used in a way that does anything other than enrich developers. If people aren’t secure in their property rights we are all less free.

Well said, Frank.

I have seen eminent domain used “properly,” but only once or twice — all too often, the profit motive takes precedence over property rights and/or the common good.

 
Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 08:48:12

Frank, I agree. To me, eminent domain should be for the public welfare only, and that only in dire cases, as in condemning a house for a hospital that can’t be sited elsewhere, if such cases ever even exist, which would be rare. Eminent domain is basically unConstitutional.

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-08-12 08:54:19

In my opinion, “eminent domain” can never be used properly because that would always imply the need to determine whether the majority is better of by sacrificing a minority. If the majority really wants to put a road or power line through then they should buy that land at MARKET PRICE where no property forcibly changes hands. If it no longer benefits the majority at MARKET PRICE then clearly it wasn’t that necessary. As the price goes up there are more and more people willing to sell and the most economic and non-coercive means will be discovered.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 09:09:55

“Here is how I define someone like you: Someone who believes it’s ok to confiscate someone’s home to build luxury condos, someone who believes it is within the legitimate purview of government to drive poor and working class people out of their homes, someone who doesn’t respect the rights of individuals.”

You got all of that out of the fact that I said I was open-minded enough to consider sound highest and best use arguments with respect to real estate development? I did not have time to explain what I would define as sound because I work, but to just assume what I would consider a sound and legitimate highest and best use argument does in fact indicate prejudice, and your unwillingness to consider any such arguments does indicate a closed mind. I have spent many years studying urban planning, and visit many cities around the world in connection with this interest. As far as not being aware of any successful city revitalization efforts that involved the use of eminant domain, I really don’t know what to say, because every major city I have ever visited seemed to have examples of success stories.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-08-12 09:37:12

I have to agree with Frank, ET and losty. Why, right now here in Olympia there’s a fight busting out over whether an Utter A@shole named Tri Vo gets to develop and put up luxury condos on a little isthmus that sits right there on the downtown waterfront. That ain’t for the benefit of the citizens of this great town, in case you’re wondering.
‘Downtown revitalization’ my angry pink bum.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 10:01:44

I find downtown revitalization efforts much like modern art. If done correctly, I love it, but most is done poorly. That’s why I find if difficult when ppl ask me questions such as do I like modern art or new revitalization projects. The answer is too complex. More than 90% is crap that should never exist. There are always some hidden gems in that top 10% that will always prevent me from saying I am against it, however. It is always way too easy to show bad examples. I think the real question is: do you think there are any good examples where it was done right? If the answer is yes, ppl need to keep an open mind.

 
Comment by patient renter
2008-08-12 10:36:15

“eminent domain” can never be used properly because that would always imply the need to determine whether the majority is better of by sacrificing a minority

Exactly. Reminds me of a quote from the Creed of Freedom:

“one of the greatest threats to freedom is to allow any group, no matter its numeric superiority, to deny the rights of the minority; and that one of the primary functions of just government is to protect each individual from the greed and passion of the majority.”

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 11:36:52

I admit that my own personal belief that ideally cities should funtion as communities where sometimes the needs and desires of the community should outweigh the needs and desires of individuals has an impact on my views of urban planning and revitalization efforts. I tend to view cities as living organisms that need to have certain things occur to retain healthy.

 
 
Comment by oxide
2008-08-12 07:36:15

Why should the poor enjoy the best real estate and keep a city from realizing its full potential?

Because they got there first?

And please define “urban bliss” and “full potential.” I’m thinking along the lines of public library, state park/farmer’s market, art gallery, charter school, community garden/nature center, public park/festival area, public beachfront, community college outpost, or heck, even a sewage treatment plant or highway if that’s what’s needed.

But, if playgrounds for the filthy rich, or badly built attached product snapped up by greedy equity locusts who will never live there is a city’s idea of realizing its “full potential,” then I’ll move to the flyover sticks thankyouverymuch.

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Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 07:49:55

How about a place where you have a reasonable commute to work, and you can walk outside in a reasonably attractive pedestrian friendly area where there is not an abnormally high chance your kids and family members might murdered or raped, or be victim to a host of other crimes. Im not one for living in the burbs and driving and hour or more in traffic to get to work.

As far as for “[getting] there first” - cities are by their very nature older than the exurbs. To keep cities alive and healthy there has to be some cycle of rebuilding. The best type of rebuilding is well planned with great transportation. This requires large tracts of land to achieve the best result.

 
Comment by oxide
2008-08-12 08:50:19

I fundamentally agree that a city does have some right to rehabilitate blight. But I thought the Kelo neighborhood, although shabby, was not a gangland out of HBO’s The Wire. The city wanted to take land from private owners solely to hand it over to more “de$ireable” private owner$. And the interpretation is the city only cared for the beachfront because it was worth more $$ in condos, not because the beach itself had value. The city appeared to violate the blight provision AND the public use provision. The Founding Fathers were kinda prickly about property and stuff. Hence the court case, and the outrage.

Yes, we all want to walk to work, but that’s not enough cause to rip private property out from under the owner, except in the case of blight, which is why there is a blight provision.

I disagree about the “large tracts of land.” Isn’t that what gave us the failed projects of the 60’s? I’m a big believer in rehabbing smaller plots blighted urban infill. There are amazing urban planners out there. But I agree, that won’t fix entire bad neighborhoods. I don’t have all the answers.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 09:22:26

The residential components can be built on smaller tracts. The benefit of larger tracts is that it allows for better infrastructure such as subway systems, light rail, etc. Also, if you bulldoze all the dangerous areas, you can attract a better base. I think that too many ppl have this misconception I am for tearing down nice old buildings with character and building urban suburbs filled with chain stores. Nothing could be further from the truth, and it does bother me that ppl jump to conclusions when all they have to do is ask. I like visiting Europe because I love old cities. I am talking about public housing projects and buildings of no architectural significance. As for Kelo, I would not have supported the city’s decision, but would have voted with the majority of the court on appeal, although I would have written the opinion differently. Whether the project was a sound one was not the issue for the Supreme Court. They had to decide under what circumstances should cities have the right to excerise eminent domain, not the issue of whether the city made the right decision.

 
 
Comment by Northeastener
2008-08-12 08:29:54

Please dont give me any BS about free markets. I have always lived in urban areas in there are always a few jerks that try to hold out for 4X what the FMV of their house is

Let me tell you a story:

My great-grandfather owned 10’s of acres of land in a city in Southeastern Mass. The land, while in an urban setting, was primarily fruit trees and grape vines, which he harvested regularly. The city, in it’s wisdom, chose to steal all the land from him via Eminent Domain and give it to developers who built what is now government housing projects. He was paid almost nothing.

The fortunes of my family changed dramatically after that day. The city took wealth and employment from my family and gave it to the developers and the poor. The city is not better for it. My family lost what would be millions of dollars based on today’s valuations and has never really recovered that “lost fortune” they had accumulated through hard work (typical Portuguese immigrants).

The day someone convinces me that “Eminent Domain” is right and proper is the day Hell freezes over…

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Comment by Frank Hague
2008-08-12 09:03:23

There was a case in Piscataway, NJ recently where the town confiscated a family farm in order to preserve “open space”. Most uses of eminent domain are nothing more than out and out theft.

 
Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 09:14:41

Well spoken, Frank. Amen, preach it.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 09:37:33

That is a sad story but one I think is more indicative of bad implementation rather than concept. I embrace the concept but do admit the implementation can be outrageously wrong.

 
Comment by patient renter
2008-08-12 10:40:38

I embrace the concept but do admit the implementation can be outrageously wrong.

IMO, there is no room for eminent domain to be okay in some cases, and outrageously wrong in others. Either we respect property rights or we don’t.

It’s a terrible slippery slope, as is already evident by some of the misuses of the law.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 11:29:33

I find it odd that a slippery slope argument would come up to support what one might reasonably believe is the individual rights side of an argument. Slippery slope arguments seem to imply that you should curtail certain rights because such rights may be misused, and is usually followed by an extreme example. IMO sometimes difficult decisions need to be made that require thought. So be it. To shut down options that may be valuable in certain circumstances because they may be misused in other circumstances is contary to my personal views on freedom and its relation to community.

 
 
Comment by Bad Chile
2008-08-12 09:12:05

You realize you’re trusting to the government the following decisions:

1) What is the “worst” neighborhood, and how is “worst” defined?

2) Determining what defines the “full potential” of a city.

3) What is fair market value?

I’m sorry, but given our government’s track record, I think there is only one person that can answer those questions for me, and that is me.

And that is my fundamental problem.

Sure, you consider it the “worst” neighborhood, but what about the people who live there? You have your idea of what is full potential, what if it conflicts with mine?

I assure you that when Kelo v. New London was finally decided in the Supreme Court that thousands of individuals realized that the value of private property in New London went down. Why buy a house in New Haven at premium for ownership when at any time some high-minded city planner could decide your property doesn’t meet their idea of what the city looked like?

I had no intention of ever moving to New London before the decision, but I will observe to all New London city officials: I crossed your city of the list of a place I’d ever live when that announcement was made.

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Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 09:46:01

I do admit there are severe implementation problems, and I am not sure how to address those other than community support or lack thereof and suing for egregious behavior. The court was is a tough spot. It didnt want to say under no circumstances should the exercise of such powers not be allowed, but at the same time it is not its role to re-examine the factual decisions made by the city.

 
Comment by James
2008-08-12 12:32:24

Tim,

The general principle we ran this country by for a long time was to prevent the government from having a structure where they could abuse us.

If you set up a system with some high minded ideas but the potential for abuse guess what happens? It draws in people that will work the system.

Its kind of hard to strike a balance in this.

Being a former Jerseyite I knew they would be near the top of abusers of this. You can also see political agendas being carried out. It will be easy.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 12:54:03

I understand your point. I was somewhat offended (not by you) by the suggestion that I was pro-developer rights and anti-community when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. The fact of the matter is that I have worked in the past with several communities to have dangerous buildings condemned and shut down, and pushed for revitalization efforts and better transportation. I fight chain and big box stores, and prefer to see unique local businesses (although pirate shops and candle making shops are not my thing). I hate canned urban growth and prefer distintive old neighborhoods of the type you would find in San Fran or NYC. It irks me that sometimes ppl view everything as black and white. It might make arguing the point easier for them, but avoids rather than answers the difficult questions. Sometimes cities need weapons to fight for their own survival. To the extent that weapon may be used to hurt the innocent as opposed to be used for survival is an age old debate.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Tom
2008-08-12 05:59:13

I don’t know if everyone rememberes my previous post about this girl who is NOT getting rich in Real Estate but thinks she is.

She has 2 duplexes with 2 rentals in each. She was talking about not breaking even until late 2009. 3 out of her 4 tennants are now behind on their rent payments and all 4 seem to have some sort of payment problems.

http://wealthisgood.blogspot.com/2008/08/three-fourths-of-tenants-late-on-rent.html

Comment by combotechie
2008-08-12 06:44:28

The joys of being a landlord. I think I’ll take a pass.

Comment by Tom
2008-08-12 07:11:47

If you read her earlier posts, you will see how she talks about “passive income.” As you can see, it is anything but passive.

I think she’s been reading the “Rich Dad Poor Dad” books.

 
 
Comment by bluprint
2008-08-12 08:08:40

How about this tidbit:

Cash flow on the new duplex is fine for several reasons: 1) one rent payment will almost cover my mortgage payment since I don’t escrow

Translation: “I’m cash flow negative, but delaying the inevitable by ignoring taxes and insurance”

Comment by Tom
2008-08-12 11:49:25

Yeah, and then she makes another comment to the tune of, “I will be okay until taxes are due” which means her taxes aren’t part of her mortgage payment. TX has one of the highest prop tax rates in the country. A few months of vacancies and/or no rent checks, and she will have to go to grandpa to get a loan.

 
 
Comment by walt526
2008-08-12 12:13:38

LOL. Yep, keep placing all those incidentals on the American Express card and hope for the best. Translation: she has absolutely no cash reserves and will probably default by the end of the year.

This story is just not going to end well, probably her getting foreclosed on and having at least $10k in unsecured CC debt. Has she posted anything at all on the declining value of the duplexes?

Comment by Tom
2008-08-12 20:49:37

Nope, she has not.

 
 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-08-12 06:12:23

6 Signs of a Crummy Real Estate Agent

It’s also a good idea to check with the state agency simply to ensure that your agent is in fact licensed—as scam artists have been known to pose as real estate agents to perpetrate fraud.

http://promo.realestate.yahoo.com/6-signs-of-a-crummy-real-estate-agent.html

is this their new excuse for all the fraud commited?

Comment by oxide
2008-08-12 08:12:26

I thought that the Realtor(TM) license was the confirmation of scamming, not a defense against it. :-p

 
 
Comment by lucy
2008-08-12 06:26:37

UBS writes down $5bn in 2Q property losses. Maybe these big banks will just continue to write off billions and when they get to 2 or 3 trillion it will all be over? How much has been written off so far, about $500bn?

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080812/earns_switzerland_ubs.html

 
Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 06:39:08

zillow comes to jesus?

Aug. 12 (Bloomberg) — Almost one-third of U.S. homeowners who bought in the last five years now owe more on their mortgages than their properties are worth, according to Zillow.com, an Internet provider of home valuations.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a3uzhDOF9FXI&refer=us

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 06:45:31

Funny coincidence: The Fed’s definition of “nontraditional mortgage” matches my definition of “high-risk mortgage.”

Tougher lending policies spreading
Fed survey: More banks have tightened standards
By Martin Crutsinger
ASSOCIATED PRESS

August 12, 2008

WASHINGTON – More banks are tightening lending standards on home mortgages and other consumer and business loans as a deepening credit crisis exerts a heavier toll on the economy.

The Federal Reserve said yesterday that the percentage of banks reporting tighter lending standards rose across various loan types in its July survey. In April, the central bank had found that the percentage of banks reporting tighter lending standards was already near historic highs.

The new survey, conducted in early July, found that about 75 percent of the banks surveyed indicated they had tightened their lending standards for prime mortgages. That was up from about 60 percent of banks that said they were tightening lending standards for prime mortgages in the previous survey.

The Fed’s July survey covered 50 banks that hold about 80 percent of the residential mortgages on the books of all commercial banks.

Out of this group of 50 banks, 32 said they were still originating so-called nontraditional home mortgages. Among these 32 banks, about 85 percent said they had tightened their lending standards, up from 75 percent who said they were tightening lending standards for nontraditional mortgages in the April survey.

The Fed defines nontraditional mortgages as adjustable-rate mortgages with multiple payment options, interest-only loans and “Alt-A” mortgages that require limited verification of income.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 07:02:05

Worry About Stretched Firms, Consumers Hits Debt Markets
By SERENA NG
August 12, 2008; Page C1

Like a bad penny, credit-market troubles keep turning up.
[Showing Stress]

A range of corporate bonds and securities backed by consumer loans and mortgages have sagged in recent weeks to levels last seen in March, when worries about a financial crisis hit a high. Back then, investors sold most types of risky assets, as the near-collapse of Bear Stearns Cos. raised worries about a broad market meltdown.

This time there is much less panic, but concern is building about the health of businesses and consumers.

The weakness is most visible in the debt of auto makers, retailers and companies in sectors reliant on consumer spending. Bonds issued by some financial institutions are also strained.

While a large-scale credit meltdown looks unlikely now, rising bond yields will make it harder and more expensive for corporations and individuals to finance their businesses, homes, education and day-to-day expenses.

HUH? It looks like we have had a large-scale credit meltdown for a year running already. Wake up, WSJ editors!

Comment by tresho
2008-08-12 09:38:26

A large scale credit “meltdown” to me would be 1000s of small businesses closing & putting 10,000s people out of work due to lack of credit. Nothing in the media indicates this is happening. So much of the terminology appearing in the business press is hysterical and overwrought.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 07:04:11

Could the dollar’s rally be cause for Southern Comfort?

Dollar’s Rally Is No Cause For Comfort
By Mark Gongloff
Word Count: 484 | Companies Featured in This Article: Coca-Cola, McDonald’s

First, the good news: The U.S. dollar is making a comeback.

Now, the bad news: The U.S. dollar is making a comeback.

In the past month, the buck has bounced nearly 7% against the euro, which on Monday closed below $1.50 for the first time since February. It has cracked through its 200-day moving average against the European currency for the first time in nearly two years, interrupting a long, downward trajectory and possibly signaling still more gains. The dollar is up about 6% against a basket of six major currencies.

Comment by Northeastener
2008-08-12 11:46:58

Dollar goes down, commodities priced in dollars go up and price inflation increases as more businesses pass on the costs. US exports increase as US manufacturing becomes more competitive. International tourism to the US increases as the cheap dollar entices foreigners here.

Dollar goes up, commodities go down and eventually prices for goods and services should decline as well. US exports decrease, international tourism to the US declines. US nationals vacation overseas to take advantage of stronger dollar.

Pick your poison… personally I would rather deal with a declining dollar and increased exports, as dealing with the trade deficit is one of many systemic problems our country faces.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 19:15:37

I would prefer a rising dollar coupled with crashing housing prices, a la Japan circa 1990, thank you…

 
 
 
Comment by bluprint
 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 07:13:33

Fed Survey Highlights Bank-GSE Disconnect

WASHINGTON — Banks seem unprepared for the pullback Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are planning as a Federal Reserve Board survey shows a sizeable chunk of lenders expect to sell or securitize large mortgages to the government-sponsored enterprises.

Polling 52 senior loan officers at domestic banks, the Fed found 44% said they expect to securitize or sell loans of over $417,000 to Fannie and Freddie in the next six months….

Fannie and Freddie have said they plan to scale back mortgage purchases in the coming months.

After reporting an $821 million second-quarter loss last week, Freddie said it would hold its mortgage portfolio at its current level of $792 billion. Fannie said Friday that it lost $2.3 billion in the quarter and would quit purchasing alternative-A mortgages. It said its broader buying philosophy would be decided “day by day.”…

Bankers continue to say they are not tightening because of concerns about the stability of financial institutions. Only 4.8% of the bankers said they stiffened standards because of a deterioration in their current or expected capital position. Instead, many of the bankers — 52.4% — said they are restricting the loans because of the tough economic outlook.

As expected, bankers were particularly vigilant on home loans. Nearly three-quarters of the respondents said they had tightened standards on prime mortgages. More than 84% said they had tightened nontraditional mortgage standards, and 85.7% said the same for subprime mortgages.

The effects of the housing crisis continued to spread to other types of loans. More than 80% of the bankers said they were tightening standards on revolving home equity lines of credit….”
American Banker
Aug 12

I wish I could be shocked or stunned or amazed, but from the bankers to the people on the street, there is rampant cognitive dissonance. The numbers and effects are to large for a reasonable person to intuitively grasp. The bankers believe Fannie/freddie will bail them out. lol

Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-08-12 07:46:52

“Bankers continue to say they are not tightening because of concerns about the stability of financial institutions.”

pan to Jon Stewart: ooooohhh….kayyyyy…..

 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 11:03:04

A quick note on Freddie:

Freddie has $1B in reserves covering $100B in Alt-A loans. I am sure the loans are all fine quality. Nothing to worry about.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-08-12 07:19:32

http://bbs2.mrlandlord.com/

Mr. Landlord website: asking landlords whether they’re in or out during this downturn.

Some interesting comments here. I like how you can tell which state every poster is from.

I think our FL contingent will get a kick out of Dave’s comments:
“I’m in for a good while yet. The (unidentified) port here is in process of more than doubling in size. That means 1500 new jobs in next 3 years, I’ll take a piece of that.”

 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 07:24:18

A Danish fix for the US mortgage crisis

By George Soros

“…The problems in the banking system have left the two GSEs as the only game in town in the mortgage market. Their market share of new mortgages has doubled over the past year and is now close to 80 per cent. Much of the balance is accounted for by the Federal Housing Administration, a fully guaranteed government agency. As the two companies fight for survival and try to reduce their need for new capital, the availability and cost of mortgages in the US suffer. Coming at a time when the supply of houses is swollen by a rising tide of foreclosures, this is a recipe for disaster. House prices have already fallen sharply and will continue to fall unless mortgages are made available on more favourable terms to a broader group of people…..

Fortunately, alternatives are available. Hank Paulson, the Treasury secretary, has suggested the use of covered bonds, a mortgage-financing vehicle popular in Europe. I would recommend the system of mortgage credit used in Denmark, where loan-to-value ratios and underwriting standards are strictly enforced by a single, strong regulator. These mortgages are transformed into instantly tradable bonds. Cover for the bonds is provided by both the mortgages and the credit of the financial institutions issuing them. The mortgages remain on the balance sheets of the issuers, eliminating the moral hazard inherent in the US system, which is based on earning fees from selling them on to the market….”
FT
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ac770b58-67aa-11dd-8d3b-0000779fd18c.html

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-08-12 07:36:07

he loves America

Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 07:40:38

America loves George…. now more than ever.

 
Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 08:34:32

As much as a billionaire foreigner who runs his business offshore and pays no US tax can love America. But then those are your kind of people, right taxme?

 
 
Comment by bluprint
2008-08-12 08:23:34

eliminating the moral hazard inherent in the US system

because I say it is so.

Here’s a thought, if you want to eliminate the “moral hazard”, how’s about not giving banks tons of OPM’s (other people’s money) via the Federal Reserve et al. which they use to churn loans and earn fees.

Do away with all the subsidized lending and the moral hazard goes with it. People (like az_lender) who want to make loans still can, but will do so with their own money and more cautiously. And if they aren’t cautious they will quickly be relieved of their money, thereby eliminating the possibility of more bad loans by that lender.

 
Comment by tresho
2008-08-12 09:41:04

disaster. House prices have already fallen sharply and will continue to fall I don’t see any disaster in that aspect of the current situation whatsoever. GS is spewing BS.

 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 07:36:46

How’s My Bank or Why One Rating Just Isn’t Enough
August 12, 2008

“…A second factor we like to monitor closely is lending capacity, an exclusive measure developed by IRA. By looking at the lending, commitments and other factors of a bank, we are able to characterize the posture of an institution in the marketplace. Is your bank aggressively seeking to lend or is it in a defensive posture?

Looking at changes in a bank’s lending capacity can provide insights into an institution’s overall stance in the marketplace and soundness. For example, look at Happy State Bank and you see an institution with an Exposure at Default, a Basel II expression that in simple terms refers to a bank’s unused credit lines, below 40% of existing loans. This means that the bank has $0.40 in unused lines for each $1 of drawn lines. When this figure is combined with existing loans, Happy State Bank’s total exposure is just below 100% of total assets.

Look at a larger player like Washington Mutual (NYSE:WM), however, and we see an EAD of 55%, meaning the bank has $0.55 in unused credit lines for every $1 of drawn lines. Total exposure, defined as loans outstanding plus the unused commitment obligations of the bank, come in at 120% of total assets, a fairly aggressive credit posture compared with peers.

Banks like WM with credit card operations tend to have total exposures well-above 100% of total assets, while more conservative institutions tend to come in below 100% exposure to total assets. Maybe that’s why Wells Fargo (NYSE:WFC), which over the past decade has consistently has kept unused lines below 60% of drawn lines, is able to manage its higher loss rate portfolio with better overall results than its peers. Compare that 60% EAD for WFC with over 200% for JPMorgan (NYSE:JPM) or Citigroup (NYSE:C). …

For example, in Q1 2008 BAC’s subsidiary banks had an aggregate loss rate of 136.18bp (annualized) vs. just 74bp for its peers. A loss rate of 136bp equates to a “BB” ratings using industry breakpoints. This loss rate for BAC’s subsidiary banks was a full SD above the large bank peer group - and we haven’t even started to see the tens of billions of dollars in losses to come from the Countrywide acquisition. While BAC has historically reported above-peer loan loss rates, the percentage increase in losses observed in Q1 and Q2 2008 by BAC’s subsidiary banks was also above peer. …

Institutional Risk Analyst
Aug 12

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-12 07:41:30

http://www.suntimes.com/news/1102847,CST-NWS-real12.article

More Chicago homeownazz underwater, even according to Zillow!

Yups having tough time finding GFs to finance their lifestyle/dreams.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-08-12 08:21:24

In the second quarter, 19.8 percent of homes in the region sold for a loss, vs. 13.4 percent for the second quarter of 2007 and just 4 percent for all sales in the last five years.

Gee, things are looking up.

Speaking of the Sun-Times, word on the street is they’re on the ropes. Their stock was delisted this summer and is now trading at 26 cents per share.

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 08:36:33

The entire MSM could go away and be replaced by blogs and the world would be a better place for our children. IMHO.

 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2008-08-12 09:20:05

Speaking of the Sun-Times, word on the street is they’re on the ropes. Their stock was delisted this summer and is now trading at 26 cents per share.

Maybe that’s because they suck as a newspaper. Yesterday’s cover story had nothing to do with wars, the Olympics, John Edwards, or anything else that other news outlets found interesting enough to cover. No, yesterday’s cover story was an 84-year old man that wants to pitch for the Cubs. Great. So do I. Can I have a cover story too? And it’s not like the Cubs are so ridiculously bad that many people would find it humorous to suggest an 84-year old man could do a better job. The Cubs are in first place, best record in the National League, and have a group of pitchers that are showing no signs of collapse.

It makes no sense.

 
 
 
Comment by bizarroworld
2008-08-12 07:50:53

House prices edge higher in June

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080812/usa_housing_prices.html

The index may be evidence that a bottoming process is underway for the housing market that has been mired in its worst slump since the 1930s. But the index is not “smoothed” or adjusted for seasonal forces, such as the typically stronger spring and summer selling season, according to IAS.

Who writes this crap? Where’s the bottom when housing dropped 11.5 percent over the past year? All is well again from the MSM clowns. Buy now or be priced out forever!

Comment by FP
2008-08-12 08:36:55

Darn, I missed the boat again. I’ll be priced out forever becuase God is not making anymore land.

 
Comment by Asparagus
2008-08-12 08:54:25

If you look at the makers of the index, it’s three real estate brokers from Colorado. I don’t sense tremendous statistical discipline from the website. A lot of vague stuff.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 07:51:14

Oh my word. Gold is down another $10.

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 08:31:48

There gold here in Colorado’s San Juan mountains. My brother and I were looking at sparklies in the sand bars of the Uncompahgre River just yesterday, and it weren’t no fool’s gold. We talked about placer mining, but we had an argument, he won’t do the work and give me the money for management, so that idea went nowhere fast.

Anyway, a woman in Montrose (near the mtns) who’s in her 70s just opened a gold mine on a claim she owns and is having to cart the ore out by mule because it’s in a wilderness area. She made the local press and everyone was quite enthusiastic because of the price of gold. I hope she doesn’t lose her shirt, she was a good role model for my brother. :)

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-08-12 09:50:18

‘We talked about placer mining, but we had an argument, he won’t do the work and give me the money for management, so that idea went nowhere fast.’

Shoots, losty. Nothing worse than an unruly brother. :)
I feel for you. My own brothers were raised, (by me), to be good respectful lads and obedient to my every whim, and it all worked out just fine until one day they suddenly noticed they had grown up to be about six and a half feet tall apiece, and then they started getting restive and giving me back-talk now and then. Youth nowadays, it’s a disgrace. They just doesn’t respect their elders. *sad shake of head and pensive puff of corn-cob pipe.*

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 10:20:55

Oh jeeze, you got more than ONE???

:)

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 10:35:37

Yup Olygal,

My brother was the same way until he out grew me and well you know the rest of the story. ;)

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-08-12 11:27:58

Gee Olympiagal,

That reminds me of the year when at the beginning of the summer my brother came up to my chin. By years end he was taller than me. Lots of growing pains reported that year.

By the way I’ve got 3 of those younger bros. Man have I got stories to tell.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 07:59:08

BULLETIN
BLUE-CHIP STOCKS PACE TUESDAY RETREAT; DOW INDUSTRIALS DOWN AS MUCH AS 120 POINTS
Paul B. Farrell
PAUL B. FARRELL
America needs a ‘Good Depression’
Seven reasons a ‘good’ depression beats a new Great Depression
By Paul B. Farrell, MarketWatch
Last update: 7:14 p.m. EDT Aug. 11, 2008

ARROYO GRANDE, Calif. (MarketWatch) — Yes, a depression. Spelled: D-e-p-r-e-s-s-i-o-n. Wake up America, recessions don’t work any more.

Last November we posted “17 reasons America needs a recession.” Today it’s far worse, and getting worse still. See previous Paul B. Farrell.
Most economists predict it’ll take till 2010 to burn off our excess housing inventory. RGE Monitor say Fannie and Freddie bailouts aren’t working; they’ll soon be “profoundly insolvent” and need to be “nationalized.” Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson has no long-term plans, he’s a caretaker, plugging holes, anxious to get back to Wall Street’s money machine, running out the clock till he turns over the catastrophe he enflamed to a new bunch of politicians and their armies of 42,000 greedy lobbyists.

Lessons learned? Zero. Why? Wall Street, Washington and Corporate America are a one-trick pony with one narrow-minded strategy: Economic g-r-o-w-t-h, bull markets, megabonuses. In good times they tout “free markets.” But when greed bombs, these big babies throw free market “principles” under the “Reagan Revolution” bus as their lobbyists go whining to Congress for megabillion taxpayer bailouts and access at the Fed casino’s discount window to siphon off more taxpayer money. What hypocritical wimps!

Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 08:36:35

‘America needs a good depression’

Ludwig von Mises says it’s in the bag.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-08-12 08:55:33

I’d be really impressed if he said that out loud.

Didn’t he die in 1973? ;-)

Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 09:08:31

But before that he said:

There is no means of avoiding the final collapse of a boom brought about by credit expansion.

The alternative is only whether the crisis should come sooner as the result of a voluntary abandonment of further credit expansion, or later as a final and total catastrophe of the currency system involved.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-08-12 09:56:31

I am voting that the second option is where our brilliant leaders are taking us.

Hyperinflation to the rescue!

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-08-12 12:32:35

Pondering the Mess,
If you are voting for the second option, what actions are you taking to prepare? Surely you realize what hyperinflation means in terms of starvation, riots, break down of the division of labor, tyranny, etc.

I have heard it said that only those who take action accept what they believe to be true, otherwise your emotions are causing you to deny your best reasoning.

I am curious to know what you think the prudent thing to do is if you expect hyperinflation? And what steps you have taken.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 19:27:24

You fellows are looking for mass civil unrest where there is none, as of yet. I realize civil unrest is always a possibility, but until there is a shard of evidence that it is forthcoming, why wring your hands endlessly? Next thing you know, we will be facing a hand lotion shortage.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by ChillintheOC
2008-08-12 08:10:19

Another prediction accurately called by posters on the HBB comes true! Amazing - they should just hire this blog to sift thru the economic tea leaves.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/12/real_estate/prime_defaults_price_drops/index.htm

 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-08-12 08:54:53

“The ‘profit’ they report on their tax return is vastly different than the profit they report on their books. The division has existed for a long time and it is by design. But telling public corportations that if they want to have no income for taxes, they have to tell their shareholders that they had no income for the year, would set up a very interesting tension in the reporting.”

Thoughtful people were wondering who they were lying to in the late 1990s — the IRS or the shareholders? It turns out they were lying to the shareholders much more than the IRS.

Crank up those downward revisions! After all, the loss doesn’t seem as bad if it happened a while ago rather than now.

 
Comment by sartre
2008-08-12 08:58:19

heh heh, nothing like humiliating the frenchies….
“You want some freedom fries with your crow?”
A trash-talking frog is croaking today.
Gary Kamiya

http://www.salon.com/sports/olympics/2008/08/11/relay/index.html

Comment by watcher
2008-08-12 09:10:50

You do realize sartre was french? :)

Comment by sartre
2008-08-12 10:28:43

this one is all american :-)

 
 
Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 09:25:30

Sartre, you’re not an ex-pat frog, are you? :)

Aren’t you the fellow who said that hell is other people? Or was that your buddy, Camus?

Anyway, fun article.

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 09:28:36

As an aside, if hell is other people, heaven is other dogs. :)

Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 09:46:54

In a conversation Mr. Mark Twain had with Mr. Andrew Carnegie, Mr Carnegie said “America is a christian country”. Mr. Twain responded, “Carnegie, so is hell.”

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Comment by deeogee
2008-08-12 21:08:13

“As an aside, if hell is other people, heaven is other dogs. ”

My tails a’waggin ! When I get to heaven it will be my job to play with the puppies!

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Comment by serling
2008-08-12 09:25:14

Reading this blog helped saved my housing sanity. I couldn’t figure out how people were buying homes at ever-higher prices. I figured I was a lousy saver or lacked rich relatives or something. I’ve been trying to patiently wait for things to happen. So I wait, and wait, and wait. I see some cracks as houses bought 2-4 years ago are being listed for sale. Thanks to this blog, was able to check http://www.masslandrecords.com and see the history on a house listed last week.

8/2002 – purchased 278K, with 2 mortgages (80%/20%)
6/2003 – two new mortgages totaling 328K.
8/2004 – new mortgage at 368K.
5/2006 – new 2 year ARM mortgage at 390K.
Listed for sale now at 395K.

I would like to ask reader’s opinions on these numbers involving 2 houses in the same neighborhood bought by one couple. Both houses, in the New England area, went up for sale this summer, offered by the same realtor. Last month, they sold the first house. When I attended an open house at House #2, approximately 2,400 square feet, according to the realtor the couple is selling the second house to so they can “move to a bigger one.”

This history:
House #1 - When this house purchased the house was in move-in condition (owned by an older couple). While there they did the typical granite countertops and stainless steel appliances.
2/2005 – purchased for 326,500. Got 5-year ARM mortgage at 5.375% for the full amount.
5/2005 – got an open-ended mortgage (HELOC?) for 36K.
In 2006 rented the house for around 1,850/month as they purchased house #2. Along with listing house for sale, were also listing it for rent.
7/2008 – sold the house for 366K.
Property taxes around $2,900/year.

House #2 - This house had more updates. Did put in an air conditioning and new heating system, though the old 50+ fuel tank is still there. In addition to the usual granite and stainless steel, chef kitchen with sub-zero refrigerator and professional oven, new custom cabinets, did repaint the exterior and knock down a wall to expand the kitchen area, along with some marble bathroom updating.

8/2006 – purchased for 508K. Got mortgages of 406,400 and 50,800.
1/2007 –financing statement filed against house for new heat and air conditioning system
8/2007- replaced the larger mortgage with a 500K mortgage
Property taxes approximately $3,900/year
Been on the market for over two months (at least 2 open houses) asking $600K.

Would like to know how these numbers are working for the couple. Maybe they know something I don’t that’ll get them to that bigger house.

Comment by serling
2008-08-12 10:21:04

Oops on House #1
on 2/2005 - purchase price WAS $362,500. The 2 year ARM was $326,250.
The sale history on House #1 is:
1997 - sold for $160K
1994 - sold for $152K

 
 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 10:02:51

“A couple of Olympics jokes are making the rounds in Beijing.

First one is a riff on the fact that while many Chinese are extraordinarily proud of the Olympics, they are also put out. Hundreds of thousands of migrant workers were sent home from Beijing before the games began as constructions sites shut down. Many factories are temporarily closed. Lots of people are forced to work overtime. The nation is jittery that something may go wrong.

In short, people are exhausted and uneasy.

Here’s the first joke:

“At the closing ceremonies, International Olympic Committee President Jacques Rogge announces that the IOC has decided that the next Olympics will be held again in Beijing instead of London since the games were so successful. The news sends millions of Chinese into a faint. Even the doctors swoon. Only the police are strong enough to withstand the news, and they immediately shout in unison: “Go to hell, Rogge!”

Another joke is about the song sung at the opening ceremony, “You and Me.” The English “you” sounds like the Chinese word for “oil” and English “me” happens to sound like the Chinese word for “rice.” So many people say the song reflects the “One World, One Dream” so precisely because the world is expecting more oil and rice.”
From China Rises
http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/china/2008/08/jokes-about-the.html

I am sure these are funnier in Chinese, I still find them sardonically amusing.

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 10:25:57

Hoz, my friend, Ioco optimo delactamur.

But, quisque comoedus est. :)

Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 10:56:40

Credo quia absurdum est; rideo, ergo sum. Spero nos familiares mansuros. :>)

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 12:28:02

Of course!

Veni, veni, veni Locamowae cum me!

:) :)

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 14:19:35

Lost,

“Come on, come on, do the Locomotion with me”

Once again translation provided by Abigail’s Big Table of Useful Latin Phrases :) :)

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 11:50:53

Lost,

“We are amused by an excellent joke”

“But, everybody’s a comedian”

Hoz,

“I believe it because it is unreasonable, I laugh, therefore I am. I hope we’ll still be friends”

Translation provided by Abigail’s Big Table of Useful Latin Phrases. :)

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 13:01:40

Hey, you forgot to translate the last post I made; I need to know what I said, since I don’t speak Latin…

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 14:21:42

Lost,

See my post above. BTW how do you get the double smile?

 
Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 17:01:25

It’s a secret. Send $50 to doublesmile dot com and I’ll tell you.

:) :)

OK, but for you, it’s FREE: Just do the single smile and put a space and do it again. :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-08-12 10:11:31

Trump was on GMA today and according to him now is the time to buy. He has called the bottom. He also said today is a good time to be a buyer and not a seller. He also said to get out of the cities that are dying and head for the cities that have jobs.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=5562889&page=1

So everyone since “The Donald” has called the bottom, better hurry up and get your house before prices go to the moon. (sarcascm off)

 
Comment by makeschips
2008-08-12 10:22:56

Sorry if this is a duplication, but I didn’t get around to reading the Hot Properties column in the Sunday LA Times until I was munching my corn flakes this morning.

This is a follow-up to my observation of Sharon Stone’s investing expertise in Beverly Hills.

She bought in ‘06 for $11M. Never occupied.

Listed 5/08 for $10M (this price reduction is what made the news a month ago).

No sale, so listed for lease at $58K/mo.

8/08 leased for $35K/mo. (”Ouch”)

So, my back of the envelope says IF she put 20% ~ $2.2M down, then she had payments of about $53K/mo for the last 1.5-2 years. Her wishing lease price might have covered the mortgage plus a little, but at $35K/mo I estimates she’s losing about $18K/m0.

So I’d guess she’s lost about $1.1M on the monthly nut, plus her down payment ($2.2M ?), plus, oh, yeah property taxes of say $210K. Somewhere over $3M so far, plus insurance, plus lost income if the down payment if it was NOT in Indymac CDs plus………

aMUSEing, yes?

 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 10:24:37

“If you think prices in California were drug induced, these are twice the price and have nada, zip, zilch.

Prices of Tornimäe luxury apartments down by half?

On the 30th floor of Tornimäe house in Tallinn, Merko is selling an apartment with the price of EEK 60,000 per square metre, whereas two years ago the prices of such apartments were over EEK 130,000 per square metre, recalls aripaev.ee.

Real estate transactions’ value down 38 pct in Q2
Only few can afford bargain of real estate

In an advertisement posted at city24.ee, a two-room apartment on the 30th floor at Tornimäe 7, Tallinn, is being sold with the price of EEK 131,250 per square. Merko Ehitus webpage is offering to sell a two-room apartment in the same house and on the same floor with the price of EEK 60,000 per square metre.

Almar Otter, representative of Merko, said that they are different apartments. According to Otter, the apartments of higher floors were sold on an auction two years ago, and then prices were over EEK 130,000. He couldn’t comment who is selling an apartment with that price now, but guessed that the seller is trying to get back the money he spent then.

But now the market situation has changed and Merko is selling the only apartment unsold on the floor for the price of EEK 60,000 per square metre.

Otter still doesn’t agree with the claim that price has gone down by half. He emphasises that two years ago no certain price was set to the 30th floor apartments; the price was discovered in the course of an auction.

He added that the apartment Merko is selling doesn’t have as good a view, but admits that the price has still fallen.”

http://www.balticbusinessnews.com/Default2.aspx?ArticleID=7f9d8a62-f1a2-4347-a2c4-902dbe1b1a17&open=sec

$1USD = 10.496 EEK
$5716.46/ sq Meter or 10.76sq ft
or $531/sq ft

This makes Cal look cheap! PEOPLE PAID $1000/FT

Comment by In Colorado
2008-08-12 14:18:29

And to think that less than 20 years ago this was a Soviet Socialist Republic.

 
Comment by dude
2008-08-12 15:12:26

Otter was also purported to have said, “Can you believe that only a few years back we were all sliding down mudbanks and floating around on our backs while we broke clams open with a rock cleverly balanced on our furry bellies?”

 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-12 10:31:23

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080812/usa_housing_prices.html

This article indicates that housing prices went up in June. Probably insignificant and admitedly not seasonally adjusted. Anyone have insights into the validity of the index used?

Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-08-12 18:17:26

It looks like “Integrated Asset Services” is a few RE brokers, agents and various REIC minions who set up shop as a foreclosure disposal specialist and want to attract lots of banks’ REO listings..

If i (agent) were soliciting a bank (seller) which had tons of properties to unload, I’d naturally want to point to a rise in property prices.
So, i’d use whatever propritetary formulas assures that my index shows such a rise in price.. Optimism sells.

http://www.iasreo.com/about.html

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 10:36:26

latest news
Gold futures trade at lowest intraday levels since mid Dec.
Hedge funds hit skids in July as commodity prices tumble
By Jay Miller
Last update: 1:14 p.m. EDT Aug. 12, 2008

Hedge funds had a rough July as bets on rising commodity prices and falling financial stocks failed to pan out, according to research firm Morningstar Inc.

The Morningstar 1000 Hedge Fund Index fell 3.07%, its worst monthly performance ever.

“In July, the bet on long commodities and short financials didn’t work as well for hedge funds,” said Daniel Farkas, hedge fund analyst for Morningstar. The trade has been a favorite of traders for some time.

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-08-12 11:15:09

Budget deficit soars to $102.8 billion in July

The government says the federal budget deficit soared in July, pushed higher by economic stimulus payments and $15 billion in outlays to protect depositors at failed banks.
The Treasury Department reported Tuesday that the deficit for July totaled $102.8 billion, nearly triple the $36.4 billion deficit recorded in July 2007.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080812/federal_budget.html

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 19:32:27

Yawn……..

 
 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 13:21:00

tiny tidbits

“The fact is that income inequality is real; it’s been rising for more than 25 years.”
George W. Bush.

“Why is it in America, the rich and the corporations can use the means at their disposal to control and profit from the masses it is labeled as part and parcel of capitalism and is defended and when the masses use the means that they have available to control the corporations and the wealthy it is called “class warfare”?”

“America is on vacation from its financial, fiscal, and economic problems, having left the centers of power in Wall Street and Washington for a Nantucket-of-the-mind, where, in a haze of artisanal vodka and bong smoke, it’s out in the cool dune grass watching imaginary whalefishes blow, leaving only the TV Bubbleheads behind back home. Larry Kudlow of CNBC was practically drooling into his cufflinks on screen last week when the dollar popped against the Euro, and crude oil slumped, and the equity markets climbed up a flagpole.

This sort of euphoria is actually an alarming pre-crash symptom, in this case of a patient (the US) entering the terminal phase of sclerosis. Our society and all its playerz — especially the appointed communicators — just can’t fathom the reality of the threats we face, which are 1.) the loss of primary energy resources, 2.) the loss of technological potency, and 3.) the loss of a comfortable standard of living….”

Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-08-12 14:27:00

Linky?

 
Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 16:04:55

http://dpc.senate.gov/dpc-new.cfm?doc_name=fs-110-1-139

It’s about mid page Carrie. It’s bound to give the liars, deniers, thieves and ideologues a nervous breakdown.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 15:57:39

Blasphemy Hoz!! You are a communist!!!!!!!

 
 
Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 13:31:05

Celebration Foods Inc
Jessup, MD
Celebration Foods, maker of Carvel ice cream cakes, gave notice that it would lay off 201 workers at its Jessup plant in August. Connecticut-based Celebration is closing its 40,000-square-foot plant on Patuxent Range Road in Jessup. “The decision to close the plant did not come lightly,” Celebration Marketing Director Pam Russell wrote in an e-mail. Cost pressures, particularly the rise in commodity costs, prompted the closure, Russell said. After Celebration recently opened a new plant in Connecticut, it became clear that the company could not operate both that plant and the one in Jessup and remain a low-cost food producer, Russell said. Celebration closed a plant in Marlboro, Mass., in May and laid off about 90 employees there, according to a report in the Worcester (Mass.) Telegram & Gazette. The company’s Jessup plant decorated popular Carvel ice cream cakes like the popular “Fudgie the Whale.” When Carvel made the world’s largest ice-cream cake in 2004, it first did a test run at Jessup, and the plant was named a “Plant of the Year” by Food & Drug Packaging Magazine for 2005.

and

Pilgrim’s Pride to idle plants, cut more jobs

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — Pilgrim’s Pride Corp. announced plans Monday to idle two processing facilities and cut 600 jobs, further steps to offset surging feed-grain costs and weak prices for chicken-breast plans to stop production at its Clinton, Ark., chicken-processing plant and a secondary plant in Bossier City, La. The company said both moves, likely to be completed within 60 days, won’t result in “material” financial charges.

Struggling to make a profit this year, the company has already closed a processing plant and seven distribution centers, resulting in 1,700 job losses and a 5% volume cut in chicken production.
The latest move brings the company’s job cuts up to 2,300, while production will now be cut by 6.25% by this fall. ….”

Fried chicken and Ice cream, thank god they only laid off at the Latrobe,PA brewing plant (it only makes Sam Adams- not something really good.) What is America coming to when chicken producers lose money on every sale, Ice Cream is not profitable and beer makers are laying off personnel?

Comment by Lost In Utah
2008-08-12 13:42:41

Hmm, when I was a kid, my aunt raised her own chickens, my dad made our ice cream, and my older cousins made their own beer (secretly and not very potable). My uncle had a small dairy and made all our cheese (ecce potestas casei).

Maybe America’s returning to its roots?

Probably not, though…

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-08-12 14:06:50

“Ryan Detrick, senior technical strategist at Schaeffer’s Investment Research, said any good news of the day was simply overshadowed by the latest concerns about the financial services sector. Banks and brokerages have taken more than $300 billion of write-downs since the credit crisis began last year.”

$300 billion so far. does anyone remember what the original estimate was when this crises began?

Comment by hoz
2008-08-12 15:19:15

As of today it is ~$500B in writedowns. The original quote from Mr. Bernanke was “$50B to $100B”. July, 2007

The final losses are now estimated to be around $1.2T based on CDS spreads. (Up from $1T three weeks ago)

Comment by takingbets
2008-08-12 15:49:24

holy smokes, those are just estimates!? this thing is going from a smoulder to a raging fire.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 19:34:02

What’s a factor of 10 between friends?

 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-08-12 16:08:45

WBBR reported $493 billion worldwide, as of today.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 19:37:36

“$300 billion so far. does anyone remember what the original estimate was when this crises began?”

“The final losses are now estimated to be around $1.2T based on CDS spreads. (Up from $1T three weeks ago)”

With no further increases in the estimates, an an assumption that the global credit market continues the same rate of writedowns as it experienced in Year 1 of the Great Credit Implosion, it looks like we have another three years ($900 bn / $300 bn / year) of credit crunch ahead. (But I am expecting a severe market disclocation to speed things up before three years are up…)

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-08-12 15:17:43

Here’s a funny juxtaposition from Tucson’s Arizona Daily Star newspaper…

Story: Signs of stability emerge in Tucson housing market

OTOH, the reader comments are less glowing. One even questions the expertise of the reporter, and, get this, her editor jumps into the fray to defend her.

 
Comment by dude
2008-08-12 15:24:26

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/47134/Sucker’s-Rally-Alert-Dow-Going-Below-10000?tickers=%5Edji,%5Egspc,%5Eixic

Barry Ritholtz, CEO of Fusion IQ and editor of The Big Picture, thinks this is just the latest in a series of predictable bear market rallies and that we won’t be done until the Dow is below 10,000.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 15:49:36

Ho ho hee hee haw haw HAWWW — oh please stop tickling my funny bone!!!

The Associated Press August 12, 2008, 4:21PM ET
Florida mortgage regulator resigns under fire
By BILL KACZOR

TALLAHASSEE, Fla.

Florida’s top mortgage industry regulator resigned Tuesday amid allegations his agency let thousands of convicted criminals, including bank robbers and racketeers, work in the home loan business.

Gov. Charlie Crist and the state’s three Cabinet members, who together oversee the Office of Financial Regulation, also approved emergency rules to stop the licensing of ex-convicts as mortgage brokers.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 15:51:24

Freddie Mac Will Stop Buying New York Subprime Mortgages
By DONNA KARDOS
August 12, 2008 12:39 p.m.

In its latest effort to deal with the fallout of the subrprime credit crisis, government-sponsored mortgage buyer Freddie Mac said it will not purchase subprime mortgages secured by properties in New York state with note dates on or after Sept. 1.

The move is Freddie’s response to recent New York legislation, effective Sept. 1, that creates a new category of subprime mortgages. The state has said the legislation is intended to curb abusive lending practices.

 
Comment by dude
2008-08-12 16:10:05

Hey Ben, as always thanks for the blog. I really appreciate it.

Could you bring back the Wall St. and Washington thread? The BB gets awefully big during the day and the W&W thread used to help with that I think.

Please?

Pretty please?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 19:10:58

Is Megabank, Inc unusually mendacious during this implosion phase of the Great Credit Bubble, or is this merely business as usual viewed through the distortionary lens of a financial panic?

And regarding UBS’s future, isn’t it on the Fed’s too-big-to-fail list?

Figures add up to huge challenge
By Haig Simonian in Zurich

Published: August 13 2008 00:05 | Last updated: August 13 2008 00:05

Two figures underline the scale of the challenge facing UBS after the damage to its blue-chip reputation as a money manager caused by its massive losses on risky US credits.

In the second quarter of 2007, the world’s biggest wealth manager received no less than SFr34bn ($31bn) in net new money from its clients. By contrast, in the same period this year, the corresponding figure was a net outflow of SFr43.8bn ($44bn?).

Even stripping out the big swings in flows to the group’s global asset management operation from big institutional investors, the damage to the UBS core private banking franchise is impossible to miss.

Reputational damage and, for some private clients, fears about the bank’s future, triggered a huge outflow of funds. More than a net SFr17bn left the group’s core wealth management operation, with a further SFr2bn leaving business banking Switzerland.

Executives from the bank on Tuesday tried to play down the extent of the swing, noting that a significant part – some SFr8bn – of the private banking outflows represented seasonal movements in the US, where clients would regularly withdraw funds to meet tax bills.

What an implausible crock of bullsh!t. Why didn’t those “seasonal movements” show up in last year’s Q2 results? Besides, I thought UBS’s U.S. clients typically evaded making tax payments?

Do modern-day banking CEOs have to flunk lie detector tests to qualify for their positions?

My sincere hope for the aftermath of the Great Credit Bubble implosion is that a Phoenix of better banking practices rises from the ashes.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 22:28:25

Friday, August 8, 2008

Mortgage crunch hits prime borrowers

Many with good credit took out the same kinds of loans behind the subprime mess and those borrowers are starting to feel the same pain. Host Tess Vigeland talks to a listener with good credit and an interest-only loan.

Many with good credit took out the same kinds of loans behind the subprime mess and those borrowers are starting to feel the same pain. Host Tess Vigeland talks to a listener with good credit and an interest-only loan.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-08-12 22:29:45

Friday, August 8, 2008

Prime versus subprime loans

How did prime borrowers end up in the same boat as subprime borrowers? Host Tess Vigeland asks real estate investor Jeremy Brandt what was behind the push towards adjustable-rate and interest-only loans.

 
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