August 20, 2008

A Market That Went Crazy Too Long

The Columbus Dispatch reports from Ohio. “Last week, Patricia Ryan told the Franklin County Board of Revision that her house near Canal Winchester is worth less than the auditor’s $139,800 value. The county should cut the property taxes on the Pompano Street house she bought new for $112,643 two years ago, she said. Ryan pointed out a neighboring house also built by Dominion Homes that has been vacant for a year. ‘Can’t sell it. Can’t rent it,’ she said.”

“‘And they’re still building more new homes?’ asked Kimbol B. Stroud, a board member who represents Auditor Joseph W. Testa. Ryan nodded: ‘Doesn’t make sense, does it?’”

“‘The market being as slow as it is, that’s cash builders are holding onto to get through,’ said James B. Hilz, executive director of the Building Industry Association of Central Ohio. Asked how widespread the problem is, Hilz replied: ‘I could just send you our roster.’”

“‘I can’t afford to pay any more than I should be paying,” Ryan said. ‘When I bought, I thought ‘I live in it a couple of years, then dump it.’ But then they built these other, less- expensive homes, and the economy has done what it’s done. Oh, I am stuck.’”

“The Franklin County auditor’s office recorded only 780 ‘valid’ condo sales — the regular, nonforeclosure-related transactions — in the first half of this year, the lowest sales volume since 1991, records show. The median sales price of those condos fell 9.3 percent, to $117,000. Add in the foreclosures and auctions, and the picture worsens for condos as it did for single-family houses.”

“A three-bedroom condo near Reynoldsburg is still on the market after nearly a year, despite dropping its asking price from $133,900 to $119,900, said Sandra Boden, the realtor trying to sell the unit . Another condo in the area that was purchased for $127,900 in August 2007 just sold for $99,000, she said.”

“‘This is the worst I’ve ever seen it in Columbus,’ said Boden, who has been in the business 29 years. ‘It’s become such a ridiculous buyers’ market that people are almost demanding a fantastic deal.’”

“During the peak of the real-estate boom, Boden would sell 20 to 25 homes a year. This year she has sold one and is about to close on her second, she said. ‘Buyers are looking for the right deal,’ she said, adding that if they don’t get it, they’re walking away.”

The Dayton Daily News from Ohio. “Every day, free advertising leaflets are dropped off on the driveway of the vacant house next to Bob Johnson’s home. The realtor rarely comes by so trash duty has fallen into the hands of the neighbors.”

“‘The place has been empty for a year,’ Johnson said. ‘It was originally worth $170,000 plus and now it’s selling for $139,000.’”

The Lansing State Journal from Michigan. “While sales are up, the average sales price this year through July was $112,319, a 22 percent drop from the $145,081 average sales price for the same period in 2007. And foreclosures remain a problem. There were 496 properties in Clinton, Eaton and Ingham counties with foreclosure-related filings last month, according to RealtyTrac.”

“‘On houses that are not foreclosures, people are not getting the price that they want,’ said Kathy Birchen, an associate broker in Okemos.”

“That’s creating opportunities for bargain hunters and investors, agents say. The deal was so good on the house Natalie and Larry Sachs bought last week near Owosso that the couple were willing to deal with having two mortgages until their Eaton Rapids-area home sells.”

“The Sachses bought the 3,500-square-foot house on 27 acres for $285,000. ‘It was more land than we ever thought we’d be able to get, and the house was almost 100 percent of what we really wanted in a house,’ Natalie Sachs said.”

The Detroit Free Press from Michigan. “It’s a sign of the times when real estate offices have For Sale signs posted out front. Many real estate agents who left the business say they don’t want to talk about it.”

“Flo Abke, owner-broker of Realty Executives in St. Clair Shores, said she knows a talented agent who had to leave for a job at Starbucks. Abke, who was with Century 21 in Eastpointe for 20 years before the office closed in 2006, opened her own office two years ago and has found it to be a challenge.”

“‘I go home every night thinking of how I can get my houses sold and make sure everyone in my office is OK,’ she said.”

The Post Tribune from Indiana. “A decade-long housing boom in Northwest Indiana has been reduced to a thud. ‘For a while there, it was a total zoo,’ said Crown Point Building Administrator Bill Kozlowski, who had contractors standing two- and three-deep in front of his office in 2004, when his department issued a record 479 permits for new homes.”

“‘Right now, builders are telling me the money is available, but it’s hard to qualify for a mortgage anymore,’ he said.”

“‘This is no surprise at all, given the trends nationally and in the Chicago marketplace,’ said Carol Rogers of the Indiana Business Research Institute, noting Census data showed a 20 percent drop in permit requests nationally and a 50 percent decline in the Chicago area.”

The Chicago Sun Times from Illinois. “Just how goofy is the Chicago condo market? Some would say it has been goofy for years, but now that credit is constricted and speculators have left the market, consider this statistic from the Appraisal Research Counselors Ltd. report on downtown condos.”

“It said that in the second quarter, 466 condo sales contracts were signed downtown, but 358 were attributed to the 150-story Chicago Spire. The spire developers reported their initial sales in the 1,200-unit building in one swoop, so they skewed the results. Without the Spire, the downtown market had only 108 sales in the second quarter, an extremely low figure.”

“Appraisal Research said buyers are on the sidelines and developers are resorting to incentives, many of which are not advertised and are offered only when the sales center has a live prospect. Appraisal Research found that the market still has an unsold inventory of about 7,300 units.”

The Forest Park Review from Illinois. “Through mid-August, 26 homes have been sold in Forest Park in 2008, according to listings information provided by Gary Mancuso, president of the Oak Park Area Association of Realtors. In 2007, 59 single-family homes changed hands.”

“Forest Park, however, remains saturated with available properties. Sixty-nine single-family homes in this small community are being actively marketed. In neighboring Oak Park and River Forest, home values have declined much more sharply in the last year than in Forest Park. The average single-family home in Oak Park is selling for $41,000 less. In River Forest, properties are fetching $91,000 less, a drop of about 10.5 percent.”

“As for the overall stability in the local real estate market, local Realtor Jerry Jacknow said buyers’ fears are only being spurred by media reports. ‘To be honest, it seems the media is scaring people because they print a lot more negative than they do positive,’ Jacknow said.”

The News Democrat from Illinois. “Tari Jacobs, who is president of the Realtors Association of Southwestern Illinois and leads agents in St. Clair, Monroe, Randolph and Clinton counties, said she has seen more foreclosures filed at her agency, Concept Real Estate in Columbia.”

“‘I can only speak for my office, but (foreclosures) are up,’ Jacobs said. ‘I have a couple of agents who specialize in foreclosures, and primarily that’s all they do. They are all very busy.’”

“Krista Barron almost lost her Granite City house. Last November, Barron and her husband decided to sell their house, which they had bought four years before. It sat on the market for three months. Fortunately, the couple’s tax refund helped them fend off the bank, and a relative helped pay the mortgage. Barron said she was one day late with her June mortgage, which she paid on July 2. Two weeks later, she faced foreclosure.’

“Between June 12 and July 25, Barron said she paid up on her mortgage and car payments. But two weeks ago, she learned that legal fees for her potential foreclosure had accrued. She owes $1,600.”

“‘I was just shocked,’ Barron said. ‘Now I’m worried about paying the mortgage and making the next car payment. Will there ever be any relief here?’”

The St Joe News from Missouri. “When Kathy Felton bought a duplex 20 years ago, she dreamed it would be a home for life for her and her son. But 20 years later, the bank foreclosed on that dream. And last week, a horse trailer, three sheriff’s cars and a flatbed truck came to carry away her belongings.”

“The St. Joseph woman got evicted. ‘The guy said, ‘We’re taking your stuff. Are you going to cooperate?’ Ms. Felton said. ‘Am I going to cooperate while you’re taking my stuff?’”

“Doug Tschauder, an attorney for Legal Aid of Western Missouri who specializes in foreclosures, said he’s seen a definite increase in people needing help with mortgage problems. ‘Unfortunately, I don’t have any hard numbers, but there’s definitely been an increase here in this office, and from everything I can tell, the number of foreclosures in the area is picking up,’ he said.”

“Marilyn Rajca of Re/Max of St. Joseph is a real-estate agent dealing in foreclosures. She said the number of local foreclosures has increased.”

”Foreclosures over the last three years have been pretty steady here, but I’ve seen it pick up in the last month or so,’ she said. ‘We got five pending orders, and they’re coming in pretty heavy now. These bad loans are finally catching up with everybody.’”

The Star Tribune from Minnesota. “Sheriff’s sales — counties use them as a key indicator of the mortgage crisis — have ballooned more than sixfold since 2003 in 10 metro counties. An analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis this spring predicted that several suburban cities were bound for a flood of foreclosures because tens of thousands of subprime borrowers will face higher payments on their adjustable-rate mortgages.”

“Cities as geographically diverse as Ham Lake, Apple Valley, Shakopee, Oakdale, Forest Lake, Elk River, Albertville and Plymouth will experience problems, the analysis said, because of concentrations of these types of mortgages.”

“Also projected as a trouble spot is Woodbury, where concern over an 82 percent increase in foreclosures since last year led city leaders to create a task force to ease the pain. ‘We saw the writing on the wall and it didn’t look pretty,’ said city analyst Matt Stemwedel.”

“Hennepin County, for example, has seen a record numbers of sheriff’s sales, with 3,826 in the first six months of 2008. Ramsey County’s sales soared nearly 800 percent, from 393 in all of 2003 to 1,648 through June of this year. Washington County now is averaging about 100 foreclosures a month, up from a total of 147 in 2003.”

“‘It’s ultimately a correction to a market that went crazy too long,’ said Rick Ketterling, who sells houses for Coldwell Banker Burnet in the south metro. ‘During the hot housing market people sold junk for top dollar and people paid top dollar for junk.’”

“‘What’s going on is that a lot of these people are upside down, where what they owe on their mortgages is more than the value of their homes,’ said Mark Ulfers of the Dakota County Community Development Agency.”

“For example, a condo in Burnsville that sold for $405,000 in March 2007 went through foreclosure and now is selling for $182,900, even though the county’s market value is $366,900, said Dan Rogness, an agency analyst. And a single-family house in West St. Paul, purchased in November 2005 for $155,000, now is on the market for $100,000 less.”

“‘Clearly the problem has escalated,’ Ulfers said.”




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65 Comments »

Comment by aladinsane
2008-08-20 07:34:00

Wow~

Bonafide ‘valid’ information, how weird is that?

“The Franklin County auditor’s office recorded only 780 ‘valid’ condo sales — the regular, nonforeclosure-related transactions — in the first half of this year, the lowest sales volume since 1991, records show. The median sales price of those condos fell 9.3 percent, to $117,000. Add in the foreclosures and auctions, and the picture worsens for condos as it did for single-family houses.”

Comment by Anon E. Moose
2008-08-20 09:11:36

Classic Realt(wh)or(e) logic: the only “valid” transactions are the ones we like - the high priced ones during the bubble days. In a foreclosure sale money and title are exchanged, just like a “valid” sale. Usually a Realt(wh)or(e) even gets a commission, just like a “valid” sale.

What makes a foreclsoure sale any less “valid”? “Nonregular”? They’re perfectly “regular” to anyone who doesn’t have a vested interest in ever-escalating real estate prices.

Comment by Jim A.
2008-08-20 10:01:41

Except that if you read the article, it’s not the realtors who are making the distinction, it’s the assesment office. Read the article and enlarge the chart and you can see that:
1.) They’re ignoring ~25% of sales as “invalid.”
2.) Those sales are at significantly lower prices.

Unless ignoring “invalid” sales is actually written into law, I smell a disgrunteled taxpayer lawsuit.

Comment by turnoutthelights
2008-08-20 10:16:41

Thanks for the read, Jim. Boy I guess! At some point, when the invalids completely overwhelm the valids (very strange accounting there) I suspect that the assessors office staft will all go home - as in the ‘1 valid sale recorded last month has caused all property taxes to increase by 50%. Have a nice day!’

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Comment by drumminj
2008-08-20 13:29:43

As I mentioned, I think on the forums, I heard this come up in the cube next to mine when I protested my property taxes. They automatically discarded the purchase prices of these peoples’ house because they didn’t consider it a “valid” transaction, on nothing other than their perception of the price. As such, they didn’t consider the actual sales price to be relevant when it came to the assessment of their property!!!

If I remember correctly, it was a short-sale, not even a foreclosure.

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Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-08-20 16:56:39

Lawsuit or not, a day of reckoning will arrive. Once these 60K houses transfer to new owners by foreclosure, they will then transfer by “valid ” sale to the next party. When those latter numbers hit the books in the next few years most Ohio taxing districts will be dorsal fin down.

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Comment by SDGreg
2008-08-20 11:17:44

“Classic Realt(wh)or(e) logic: the only “valid” transactions are the ones we like - the high priced ones during the bubble days. In a foreclosure sale money and title are exchanged, just like a “valid” sale. Usually a Realt(wh)or(e) even gets a commission, just like a “valid” sale.”

Exactly. Not a peep about “valid” sales when the sales prices were too high due to fraud. Only in the twisted logic of this corrupt industry is a lawful, market-priced sale not “valid” and a fraudulent sale “valid”.

Comment by climber
2008-08-20 11:39:27

Which reinforces my contention that local governments were “in” on the bubble too. They’re guilty too.

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Comment by Shizo
2008-08-20 11:53:53

Still are! How fair is this? Break out the pocket book… time to start paying for stupidity (again).

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/fdic-offer-better-terms-thousands/story.aspx?guid=%7B9AF185CA-3EE5-445D-A64F-16E5BE4D1879%7D&dist=hplatest#comments

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. said Wednesday it will offer thousands of homeowners with bad IndyMac-originated mortgages better terms to rehabilitate the loans. By the end of the week, FDIC said it will send out “several thousand modification offers” to homeowners with IndyMac mortgages that are seriously delinquent or in default. The modifications will cap interest rates at 6.5% and payment options will be designed to keep payments at a 38% housing debt-to-income rate. In July, FDIC was named conservator of failed IndyMac Bank, which was renamed IndyMac Federal Bank.

 
Comment by tresho
2008-08-20 14:26:18

How fair is this? Break out the pocket book… Yup, smells like B.O. to me.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-08-20 14:42:07

I thought “rehabilitation” was something you did to prison convicts…

 
 
 
 
Comment by incredulous
2008-08-20 09:56:08

For those interested, I noticed the author of Sacramento Flippers in Trouble sites has added Seattle Flippers in Trouble. Two things really jump out, Seattle prices have barely budged, and the freefall in Phoenix has accelerated and spread to the previously believed ‘immune’ areas like Scottsdale. I think this bodes well for those of us waiting for coastal CA areas to start their collapse because it wasn’t that long ago that the Scotsdale snobs were claiming they were different, etc.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-20 07:38:12

“Without the Spire, the downtown market had only 108 sales in the second quarter”

And something like 6,000 more new condoze in the pipeline! What’s the rationalization for $300k 1 bdrms now? Oh yeah, I forgot, you might be able to rent it out for the Olympics someday - all two weeks of it.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-08-20 07:49:26

Well, you can watch the river being dyed green from your own apartment. :-D

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Comment by DinOR
2008-08-20 07:56:06

“condoze” LOL!

That’s correct spelling from now on folks! As in “put me to sleep” or “bulldoze” ( open to your interpretation ) Oh and btw I believe the correct pronunciation is Oak-uh Park-uh?

 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-08-20 09:40:58

I marched in that parade, way back when. I remember it being unusually warm for mid-March as I headed downtown to meet up at the float, dressed in jeans and a sweater. By the time I got off the el train the temperature had dropped by twenty degrees, the wind had picked up, and it was raining off and on.

It was the coldest I have ever been in my life. I desperately wanted some whiskey, but the only readily-available beverage I could find was green beer. It was about the time I started telling friends I was going to live in Florida someday.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-08-20 11:41:50

Q: What do you do if you don’t like the weather in Chicago?

A: Wait 20 minutes, it will change.

:-D

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Comment by fran chise
2008-08-20 12:30:21

There are colder places. Try some Januarys in Dallas. (Your hands stick to steel and you rip off skin). While Dallas in January is my record for being cold, Chicago in December with about a 50 mph wind funneled to ground level by Mich. Ave buildings is a close second.

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Comment by Gulfstream-fixer
2008-08-20 13:29:45

You haven’t been cold until you visit Minneapolis in February. We’re talking risking your life, if your car breaks down and you have to walk anywhere for help.

February 9, 2008….dropped to nine below as soon as the sun set….with the 35-40mph wind, wind chill was 40 below, plus. Coldest I’ve ever been (by far).

I admit though, it’s a lot more fun in Dallas, watching all those Texans trying to drive on ice. :)

 
Comment by BJ
2008-08-20 13:58:02

9 below zero is the coldest you have ever seen?
You haven’t lived in SE Wisconsin. The coldest I recall was in February in the early 90’s We had 4 days of -25 degrees. That was not wind chill that was “actual” temperature.
We had to keep the water running at a fine trickle from all of the faucets to keep the main water pipes from bursting. My daughter’s kitchen sink was on an outside wall. The pipes froze and she couldn’t use the kitchen sink for a week. We tried thawing the pipes with a hair dryer, but they re-froze

 
Comment by Eudemon
2008-08-20 20:17:01

Wimps, most of ya. Try 31 below zero AIR temperature (no wind chill) in Iowa in 1984-1985. Add wind chill and it was -70. And the University of Iowa remained open on one of those days!

-27 in Chicago (wind chill was minus 63) in the days leading to Christmas in 1983. A friend of mine had his crank case literally split in half due to the cold.

Snot freezes in your nose almost immediately. Cats jump under the hood of your car with the hope of staying warm, only to be executed when the engine does actually start.

Where are our Alaskans at? -27 is nothing up in Tanana.

 
Comment by Ceylon Tea
2008-08-21 06:57:01

I was just going to write that when I was about 14-15 or so I remembered it being -70 with wind chill 2 hours SW of Chicago in N Central IL. We were feeling the same weather that day!

You had to wear ski goggles, the face mask with only round holes for eyes and mouth, snowmobile suit, etc. just to go out. And the wind was ferocious, especially out on the farm.

 
Comment by Mot
2008-08-21 15:38:36

The day it was -27 in Chicago I was working in an unheated warehouse (the front office was up in the 20s).

It was so cold that when we went to the bar after work everybody was drinking inside the bar with their “beer gloves” on.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-08-20 09:02:54

I’m still not convinced the Spire will make it to completion in its current incarnation — hype, prattle and pre-sales notwithstanding.

 
 
Comment by climber
2008-08-20 07:57:01

‘Am I going to cooperate while you’re taking my stuff?’

“Yes, missus you aren’t paying what you owe, the house isn’t yours until you pay for it. Now, are you going to let us help you or are you going to move all this crap yourself.”

Comment by Jim A.
2008-08-20 10:06:36

Where are they taking it to? I always thought that those big guys just carried it out to the “nearest public thoroughfare.” Or is it a PUD and that isn’t in walking distance?

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-08-20 11:14:46

I wondered that, too. Down Steamboat Island road from me is a house with a whole bunch of stuff flung all over the lawn and porch. I noticed it about 2 months ago and stopped to see if it was an eviction–it was. I had never seen an eviction notice in person, and there it was taped to the window, so I read it all with fascination.
Oh, but my point was, the interior was empty, doors locked, garbage bags full of stuff jumbled on the porch. They didn’t take it anywhere.
Interestingly, it looks like someone has moved back in? The stuff sort of tidied up, lights were on, but only a single bulb. I wondered if it was random squatters, or the evicted family moved back in? This is pretty remote and rural, maybe they just sort of came back, hoping no one would tell the sheriff or the bank. I’m guess I’ll stop and see, one of these days. Maybe I’ll tattle, maybe I won’t.

 
 
Comment by gttim
2008-08-20 12:33:56

I never understand this. People know when they are going to be foreclosed upon. It is not a surprise. Why would they not at least get a storage place and move their stuff the day before. I would not want other people hauling my stuff to the street or where ever they take it there.

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-08-20 08:03:50

I’m not saying I’m completely without empathy but I’d have to say in just about any place in the 1st World buying a home at the peak of the largest bubble known to man for $112,643 can’t be the worst thing that could have happened to you?

I understand Mrs. Ryan’s beef to ’some’ degree and I imagine shortly I’ll be making my case as well here in the Portland, OR area but how big of a difference could her tax bill really be? Dear, there are huge swaths of America where people have already lost twice in value what you paid altogether.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-08-20 09:13:40

“The Sachses bought the 3,500-square-foot house on 27 acres for $285,000. ‘It was more land than we ever thought we’d be able to get, and the house was almost 100 percent of what we really wanted in a house,’ Natalie Sachs said.”

Wow, that is a screaming deal in most parts of the country. Even in this market, it might be worth taking the plunge if it feels right. I would like to see this more and more. Sometimes it may be worth it if it is a *uniquely appealing* home that you plan to actually live in and can easily afford.

 
Comment by CincyDad
2008-08-20 09:14:44

Typical property tax rates in Ohio run around 1.25%, give or take 0.25 depending on where you live.

140k x 1.25% = $1,750/yr paid simi-annually in Ohio, so $875/6 months

112k x 1.25% = $1,400/yr, or $700/6 months.

Comment by DinOR
2008-08-20 10:17:02

CincyDad,

No denying 350 bucks is… 350 bucks! And I’m not implying she doesn’t have a legitimate case. It’s just that with Phony and Fraudie on the verge of collapse, Bear Sterns gone and Lord knows what else ( it’s not the worst thing that could happen? )

Besides, it’s way early in the correction process to be pleading your case. Call me when they can’t “sell” at 75k.

Comment by Lesser Fool
2008-08-20 11:08:11

Phony and Fraudie .. beautiful!

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Comment by DinOR
2008-08-20 12:14:20

I’d love to take credit but I’m sure I picked it up somewhere here?

Speaking of FRAUD I read on Yahoo Finance that banks are shuffling ( “re-ordering” ) your debit purchases putting the largest transactions first in an effort to snare more overdraft fees! Can you believe these scumbags?

Rather than take them in the order they were rec’d they juggle them until it triggers the most damage. I can’t speak for others but between the phone, cable and power company they’ve been driving me up a wall! I swear if you’re two days late on your bill you’ll have four phone msgs., three emails and two letters marked “URGENT”!

Like I say, I’ve been past the “peak consumption curve” for about 5 years now and really don’t care what my credit looks like. I really don’t. Has anyone else noticed how aggressive the utilities have become? Near as I can figure all the re-set FB’s are blowing off ALL their bills and making it difficult for those of us that just do that stuff once a month.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-08-20 14:14:45

Sadly, the banks have been doing that for years–even for normal old “checks” in the pre-debit-card days. Shocked me when I first learned of it, too. B*st*rds.

 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-08-20 15:14:12

p.s. D, I love the “past the ‘peak consumption curve’” phrase. That’s awesome.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Shelby
2008-08-20 08:15:35

Anyone have any RE/Foreclosure news about Kansas City Metro?

My (dumb) Brother just bought a Foreclosure in Gladstone & he still owns his first home - just wondering how hard it will be to unload the first home in the current KCMO RE market?

Thoughts?

Comment by Gulfstream-fixer
2008-08-20 13:46:32

Check the Kansas City Star website “kansascity.com”

Where is his first home? He has a better shot of unloading it if it is in Johnson County, KS. ….other locations in the Metro, not so much.

As always, anything priced right will sell.

 
 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-08-20 08:59:26

I took a drive around the outer fringes of the Empire yesterday and spied 2 Starbucks operations with no cups of joe, nor any customers anymore, as in toes up…

Both stores had been built within the past year or 2 @ tremendous expense. (one on a corner and another one was the ‘anchor’ store to 4 other dubious business ventures)

“Flo Abke, owner-broker of Realty Executives in St. Clair Shores, said she knows a talented agent who had to leave for a job at Starbucks. Abke, who was with Century 21 in Eastpointe for 20 years before the office closed in 2006, opened her own office two years ago and has found it to be a challenge.”

Comment by B-hamster
2008-08-20 09:42:35

I recall that strip malls being built required that a Starbucks be located there as a prerequisite for some tenants to lease properties. Times change, I guess.

I was told too recently that SB is not necessarily losing customers, it is the second or third daily cups of coffee that they are eliminating. Sure enough, later that week (I rarely go there) my receipt was stamped that I could receive a $2 drink after 2pm.

Comment by DinOR
2008-08-20 10:22:26

B-hamster,

Oh now that ‘is’ interesting. So they’re not losing their core consumer, it’s just that they are changing their consumption habits? I hate to say this ( especially in front this crowd ) but at ’some’ point SBUX ‘has’ to be a value?

Thanks for sharing that.

Comment by milkcrate
2008-08-20 13:23:40

DinOR
Say, I had a ML advisor recommend SBUX while chatting a year ago in his office. The chart said no no no. I don’t know why he was pushing coffee shares.

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Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-08-20 09:03:44

“When Kathy Felton bought a duplex 20 years ago, she dreamed it would be a home for life for her and her son. But 20 years later, the bank foreclosed on that dream. And last week, a horse trailer, three sheriff’s cars and a flatbed truck came to carry away her belongings.”

“The St. Joseph woman got evicted. ‘The guy said, ‘We’re taking your stuff. Are you going to cooperate?’ Ms. Felton said. ‘Am I going to cooperate while you’re taking my stuff?’”

============================================================

No namesake statuary is going to help Kathy, but namesake baby asparin might help…

Comment by Socrates11
2008-08-20 10:35:12

20 years ago? She should have been in the clear with low payments and tons of equity. She almost certainly refinanced a couple of times. Where did the money go? Some lazy reporting there.

And you gotta love “Every day, she scribbles her options on notebook paper and every day she marks lines through most of them.”

1. Win the lottery
2. Find a pot full of gold at the end of a rainbow
3. Be discovered by a famous Hollywood agent
4. Make son go deeper into debt

Comment by fran chise
2008-08-20 12:42:52

You forgot a few that come to mind….[insert imagination here].

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-08-20 19:54:44

Sounds like ‘My Name is — Karma

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2008-08-20 11:39:46

Well the Moron lost in court…..or did she even show up to defend herself……the reporter i guess can’t ask those questions.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-08-20 09:04:23

From the original post:

“Flo Abke, owner-broker of Realty Executives in St. Clair Shores, said she knows a talented agent who had to leave for a job at Starbucks.”

It doesn’t take talent to work at Starbucks. It takes a willingness to show up on time and follow procedures needed to do the job. And that’s it.

 
Comment by dwkunkel
2008-08-20 09:07:05

“‘I was just shocked,’ Barron said. ‘Now I’m worried about paying the mortgage and making the next car payment. Will there ever be any relief here?’”

Here’s a suggestion, try living within your means!

 
Comment by Left LA / Moved to Chicago
2008-08-20 09:08:10

I am renting in a mid-rise in River North/Chicago. My rent includes parking, gas, and HVAC. Looking at recent comps in the building, I figure that I am paying 50-60% max of the carrying cost on the unit. I really like the place - but I certainly would not pay $450,000+HOA+Taxes to own it. My landlord seems bright, but I think he might be one of those sheep thinking that this is just a short term slump.

The Chicago condo market has a lot to give back.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-08-20 09:15:04

Could The Tribune Tower Go Residential?

They said Zell wants nothing better than to turn over all of Tribune Tower to a residential developer. Such an owner could use it as a Gothic ornament for new construction on the parking lot.

That would mean moving Chicago Tribune staff somewhere else, possibly the company’s printing plant at 777 W. Chicago.

Man alive, both the Chicago Tribune and the Sun-Times have been eviscerated in the past 12-18 months. Not that slow-moving, substandard media behemoths deserve otherwise.

I’m sure the remaining news and editorial staff would be stoked to move their offices into the printing plant (it’s a mostly windowless brick cube with enormous presses in it).

Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-08-20 09:41:31

The last will and statement from many a newspaper about to go under, is to max out on that last remaining asset they all have, a large swath of land in the middle of some gotham city, near you.

It’s hard to say what’s more toten hosen, though?

Real estate development or the 4th estate?

Comment by Left LA / Moved to Chicago
2008-08-20 10:45:52

It’s hard to say what’s more dead trousers?
Huh?

Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-08-20 10:49:46

Toten Hosen is German slang meaning:

“impotent”, “lifeless”, “boring”, or “nothing going on”.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Xiaoding
2008-08-20 11:02:35

They danse the toten danse!!

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-08-20 10:18:51

It’s so puzzling - where do they see the demand coming from? More corporate relocations - like Miller/Coors who will bring another busload of execs to town and little else?

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-08-20 09:21:24

“‘And they’re still building more new homes?’ asked Kimbol B. Stroud, a board member who represents Auditor Joseph W. Testa. Ryan nodded: ‘Doesn’t make sense, does it?’”

The make new cars don’t they? They throw the old ones, like the house that is “building equity” for you, away.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-20 09:23:46

“It’s become such a ridiculous buyers’ market that people are almost demanding a fantastic deal.”

I wish these ppl would do some research before they make such statements. Housing is still 30% or more higher than a normal market in most areas I am looking at using historic norm ratios.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-08-20 09:51:11

I have noticed many articles recently that seem to indicate condos are not being hurt as much in certain areas because the median price of a condo has not fallen as much in % as SFHs. I think median condo prices, at least in some areas I am looking at, are distorted because most of the sales that are occuring are in newer self proclaimed “luxury” buildings just coming online. Many of the boom luxury condos are just being completed and selling now, distorting the numbers in my view. This ties into the Spire statistics referenced.

Comment by Jim A.
2008-08-20 10:14:28

How many years did it take to rent out the Empire State building? The World Trade Center? Yes, those were examples of CRE, but still. It isn’t uncommon for the biggest and fanciest buildings to take so long in planning-funding-approving-building, that by the time they’re done, the bubble that motivated them is long past.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-08-20 11:37:24

I seem to recall my father saying that the Empire State Building wasn’t fully occupied until after World War II.

 
 
 
Comment by smathis
2008-08-20 12:06:57

“‘I can’t afford to pay any more than I should be paying,” Ryan said. ‘When I bought, I thought ‘I live in it a couple of years, then dump it.’ But then they built these other, less-expensive homes, and the economy has done what it’s done. Oh, I am stuck.’”

I think this, in a nutshell, encapsulates the reason for the whole subprime (spreading into prime) debacle.

Time was, people wouldn’t buy a home until they were pretty darn sure they would be able to live there for at LEAST five years. Typical wisdom was, you should plan to live there 15 years or longer. After all, you were putting down a good chunk of money - 20% - and getting approval for a fixed-rate mortgage (was there any other kind?) was as thorough - and as pleasant - as a root canal. You’d have to pack up all your stuff and pay thousands to move it to your new digs, etc. In other words, buying a house was a BIG DEAL, the kind of event that only happens two or three times in your life (if you’re lucky).

That’s how it still was, even into the mid-1990s.

Somehow in about 10 years we went from that state of affairs to this:

“I thought ‘I live in it a couple of years, then dump it.’”

Mind-boggling.

 
Comment by Crusader
2008-08-20 12:38:16

Can anyone tell me at what in history America wasn’t one bubble economy after another? 1840? What went wrong?

 
Comment by pdxHOMEDEBTOR/ocLANDRENTER
2008-08-20 13:00:57

“In other words, buying a house was a BIG DEAL, the kind of event that only happens two or three times in your life (if you’re lucky).”

I bought my first house when I was 28 in 1989 (sold in ‘94), second house in 1994 which I currently live in with no mortgage, and my third and final in 2005 in Portland OR as I plan to retire there ($1,237 per month fixed rate 5.75% 30 yr mortgage from Fraudie Mac (DinOr’s invention - very funny)).

I took today off cuz I really don’t need the money, I live a 20 minute walk from Newport Beach pier, while others are slaving away 5-6 days a week struggling to pay insurmountable obligations and giving up things they used to indulge in.

You’re right, smathis, I am lucky. How pleasant the world has been the last year or so for those of us without crippling mortgages. Neil, please pass the popcorn.

pdxHOMEDEBTOR

 
Comment by CGuy
2008-08-20 13:34:51

Funny that it mentions a Dominion home as bringing down the prices… they overbuilt, went down the tubes, and were bought by private equity for pennies on the dollar, like literally $6 million for the whole show. The whole east side of Columbus (Reynoldsburg, Pataskala, Picktown) is seriously overbuilt, and if you live out there a 30-40 minute commute is a minimum unless you’re the local barber or something. At least she admits she’s ’stuck’.

 
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