What’s Happening Is Historic
The Ledger reports from Florida. “The battle for Polk County property appraiser has been a battle over appraisals during hard economic times. In his campaign against incumbent Marsha Faux, Rusty Boedicker has enumerated one property after another to demonstrate what he perceives as inequity in the county’s property assessments. Boedicker, a real estate agent in Lakeland for six years, estimated that 60 percent of properties countywide are overassessed, while others are taxed at an unreasonably reduced rate.”
“He cited a property on Lake Hollingsworth that sold for $1.8 million in 2006, but is assessed at $1.3 million. ‘That’s just not right,’ he said. ‘It makes you wonder what’s really going on.’”
“Faux said she’s familiar with that property, which was purchased by a couple who didn’t negotiate the price.”
“‘When that came through our office, we called about it because it just didn’t seem right,’ she said. ‘They wanted that house at any price, and they paid the price that the seller named.”‘
“Faux said the price was high for that area, so her office set the assessed rate at the market level. ‘We have to do that for many properties,’ she said.”
The Tampa Tribune. “Luxury condominiums in downtown Tampa could be up for grabs soon for about $100,000 each. But there’s a catch: you’d have to buy all 171 units for at least $17.2 million, the minimum bid. That’s a bargain, considering units were originally marketed for about $200,000 to $1 million, and the developer owes the bank more than $47 million.”
“‘That’s a good deal,’ said Jack McCabe, owner of McCabe Research & Consulting in South Florida. ‘This is just the beginning of the good deals to come. The best deals will be had by people with lots of cash.’”
“Fida Sirdar, who heads Key Developers, told the Tribune in March that he hoped the bankruptcy protection would enable the company to turn the development around. In fact, Sirdar said at the time, he had so much faith that the real estate market in Tampa would improve that he was planning to start two more towers in 2009.”
The St Petersburg Times. “Sirda signed up buyers for two eight-story condo towers in 2005. But by 2007, buyers were suing by the dozens to back out of deals.”
“This probably won’t be the last condo-related auction: Projects such as the Towers at Channelside and Trump Tower Tampa also are inching their way through bankruptcy court. Trump Tower is little more than a lot on the Hillsborough River, but developers expressed fear last month that their multi-million-dollar property may be subject to a fire sale if they don’t get a cash-rich investor.”
“An apartment complex at W Hillsborough Avenue and Countryway Boulevard is going condo and - well - clothing-optional. The Eden, on its Web site, says it will soon allow nudity in a ‘private European/South Beach style swimming pool and spa area.’”
“Condo officials say the Westchase homeowners need not worry about property values. ‘If their concern is how this amenity will affect their community, on a real estate level, it’ll only help increase the traffic and interest for all neighboring communities,’ said the Eden project manager Peter Mead.”
“Neither Mead nor Norman knew how many condos had been sold as of Tuesday, but the buzz has been strong, they said. They say they have received inquiries from around the country and abroad about the units, which range from $170,000 to $380,000.”
“Andrew Bassford of Riverview worked in the construction industry for 20 years and spent the last 15 years earning what he thought was a ‘decent wage’ as a journeyman bricklayer.
“Until recently, he said, the work was steady. But residential development has ground to a halt, and state-allocated funds for school construction has been suspended.”
“‘It’s frustrating,’ Bassford said. ‘I just want a job that will pay most of my bills. So far, I haven’t found anything that will cover 50 percent of my bills. And my expenses are low. I own my own home and I’m ahead on my FHA Federal Housing Administration loan.’”
“‘I’ve given up looking for construction work,’ he said. ‘I got my Class A driver’s license so I can drive freight trucks.’”
The Herald Tribune. “Before the economy went sour, patients in local therapy sessions talked mostly about traditional emotional problems like marital discord, familial troubles or depression, local psychologists say. But recently, as job losses, with home foreclosures and economic woes mounting, many therapy sessions have begun to focus more on how people are suffering from stress and anxiety related to their finances or employment.”
“‘I’m hearing every day about people being laid off,’ said Roxane Dinkin, a psychologist in Bradenton. ‘I’m hearing every day about homes going into foreclosure. Sometimes, I hear it every hour. It’s affecting people from all walks of life.’”
From Business Week. “Apartment rents have stabilized or dropped in Florida, Nevada, and Arizona as landlords compete for tenants with desperate condo and homeowners, including those leasing properties they’re unable to sell.”
“In the Naples (Fla.) area, for example, home prices fell 29%, to $275,000, in July compared with a year earlier, according to the Naples Area Board of Realtors. Rents are falling, though not nearly as much: In the Naples metropolitan area, rents fell 9.4% in the third quarter compared with a year earlier, according to AXIOMetrics.”
“Still, the average monthly cost of renting an apartment in Florida is 50% to 60% of what it costs to own, according to Jack McCabe of McCabe Research & Consulting in Deerfield Beach, Fla.”
“‘If [home] prices were going up and you could hold on to [a house] for a long time, you might be able to make a case that it’s a better time to buy,’ McCabe says. ‘But if you have the ability to rent for half the price without the liabilities that go with owning, it’s a smarter decision to rent.’”
“Buying a home makes little sense, especially if the buyer doesn’t plan to use it frequently, according to Vincent Valvo, whose company puts out monthly home sales data on Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut. ‘It makes no fiscal sense whatsoever to buy a second home-it barely makes fiscal sense to buy a first home,’ he says. ‘If you rent, you know what the costs are. If something breaks, it’s somebody else’s headache. It’s a vacation.’”
The Naples News. “Q: Do you have any idea what’s going on with that condo project called The Carlyle behind Mel’s Diner in Bonita? It looks finished, but its been empty for more than a year now.”
“A: The Carlyle just looks empty, Deborah, but it’s really the slow housing market. The developer of the five-story, two-building housing complex - aptly named Carlyle Development, LLC - finished construction in November, but only 15 of the 60 units have been sold.”
“The place looks abandoned because of the 15 sold units, only six are occupied and only one is occupied on a year-round basis. However, a few more of the sold units are ready to rent out, so you should see some more activity at the complex in the coming months.”
“Realtor Mickey Gifford, one of three real estate agents selling the property, said the sale of the units has been extremely slow. The last one closed in January.”
“The real estate agents have opened up a furnished model to hopefully speed up the sales on the three-bedroom, 1,700 square foot units, but it could be some time before The Carlyle is bustling with activity. All the units come with all appliances and are ready for residents, expect for a couple homes that still need flooring, but there’s no rush as plenty of others are available.”
The Sun Sentinel. “When no one responded to a call for bids Thursday at the Broward County Courthouse, a condemned Lauderhill apartment complex reverted to the bank that has a $20 million investment in the place.”
“The 26-building Villas of Lauderhill had plenty of company at the public auction. Nearly all the foreclosed homes and condominiums offered during the traditional ‘courthouse steps’ fire sale failed to attract buyers.”
“Lackluster turnout at court foreclosure auctions is becoming common, according to lawyers who frequent such auctions to bid for mortgage lenders. ‘Last year, there would be tons of bidders. This year, there’s barely anyone,’ said Vincent D’Antonio, a Plantation-based attorney who on Thursday bid to keep three Broward homes for a bank.”
“Many banks are retaining most of their foreclosed properties because there are so few good bid offers at the auctions, said Louis Spagnuolo, VP for WCS Lending in Boca Raton. Also, he said, buyers have stopped attending them, turning instead to banks’ in-house real estate departments to buy property.”
“‘It’s more efficient, it’s a better deal for them and they’re buying in a non-competitive arena,’ Spagnuolo said.”
“During the first half of this year, 23 percent of sellers in Broward County unloaded their homes at a loss, according to sales data analyzed by the Sun Sentinel. In Palm Beach County, the percentage was even higher - 27 percent. That’s a significant spike from 2006, when only 2 percent of sellers in each county took losses.”
“‘It’s fair to say that some people are desperate,’ said Brad Hunter, a housing analyst in West Palm Beach. ‘But there are others who regret having bought the house at the price they paid and if they can get rid of the obligation of having to continue paying on it, they’re happy to do it.’”
“Most people dumping properties this year bought during the peak of the housing boom in 2004 and 2005. Many strapped homeowners are negotiating so-called short sales.”
“In Broward County, one in three home sales in Miramar in the first six months of 2008 went for losses, according to Sun Sentinel research, which did not include foreclosure sales. Coconut Creek, Parkland and Weston also were among the hardest-hit Broward cities.”
“In Palm Beach County during the same period, West Palm Beach and Palm Beach Gardens both had 34 percent of sellers taking less than they paid. Also hurting were the west-central communities of Royal Palm Beach and Wellington, where property values had soared during the housing boom.”
“James Diehl bought a three-bedroom house in Wellington for $389,000 in 2005 but quickly discovered South Florida was too expensive. The information technology analyst eventually found a higher-paying job in Atlanta, so he and his wife rented their house here for about a year.”
“Knowing they couldn’t sell the house for close to their mortgage amount and determined to avoid foreclosure, the couple worked out a short sale with real estate agents who found a buyer for $284,000 - 27 percent less than the Diehls had paid.”
“‘The economic burden has been lifted,’ said Diehl. ‘Everything happens for a reason. Now we’ve moved to a place where we can settle down, survive and thrive.’”
“Mary Cochrane bought a $290,000 townhouse in Davie for her daughter in 2005. But she didn’t read the fine print on her adjustable-rate mortgage and saw her monthly payments rise a year later from about $1,600 to $2,400. She said the lender wouldn’t modify the loan.”
“She eventually contacted her neighbor, a real estate agent who suggested she try a short sale. He found a buyer for $175,000 - 40 percent less than Cochrane had paid. ‘It was a blessing,’ said Cochrane. ‘I sleep at night now.’”
“Gerry Thompson bought at the height of the housing boom and soon regretted it. He paid $585,000 for a Fort Lauderdale home in 2005 for his daughter, an investor. But values started dropping the next year, and the house needed major repairs. Fed up, Thompson sold it five months ago for $380,000 - a 35 percent price cut.”
“Because he didn’t qualify for a short sale, he had to bring $83,000 at closing to make the deal work.”
“‘I was quite happy with the sale price, although it was considerably less than what we had in it,’ said Thompson, who splits his time between northern Florida and North Carolina. ‘We’re done with the real estate business, believe me.’”
“Hunter, the West Palm Beach housing analyst, said the mistakes that people have made in this real estate cycle will be remembered for decades.”
“‘What’s happening is historic,’ he said. ‘Much will be written about it in textbooks, articles and essays long after we’re through this.’”
Generally, the trick to financial success is to figure out the info long before the textbooks, articles and essays are written.
Funny thing is, the books have already been written, they’ve been collecting dust on the shelves for decades.
That’s why we should vote for people who understand something about how our economy works. This whole crisis was a failure of adequate government oversight, fiscal management, and public policy.
The whole crisis was fueled by government oversight, intervention, cheer leading and public policy.
I’d say LACK of government oversight. But, then again, to many in our current government, “regulation” is a bad word.
Yes, the free market did a GREAT job of policing itself. No conflicts of interest in giving out crappy loans with high fees, inflated appraisals, liar loans, selling toxic waste as AAA paper, and allowing investment banks to over-leverage and scream for public money when they fail.
Seriously, how can anyone take you seriously when you have no understanding of economics except to repeat like a parrot: “Government is bad! government is bad! Squawk!!!”?
Sounds like instead we should elect people who have studied history.
Awwwww, but history is SO boring.
For a time, one popular doctrine was that history had “ended,” with all models of government and political economy replaced by a single global culture characterized by shopping opportunities.
“History is bunk” - Henry Ford
“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” - George Santayana
“History doesn’t repeat itself, but it does rhyme.” - Mark Twain
“The Future is certain - it’s the Past that is always changing” - unknown
‘Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.” - George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 3
Everyone have a great weekend!
I didn’t say all government was bad, only that in the latest bubble/financial crisis the government was a key player on the wrong side of the moral divide.
The key is not more regulation, but rather honest regulation. We may need better laws, but what we need even more is honest regulators. It’s time for a purge in the private and public sectors. Get the crooks out of positions of power and give the jobs to honest folks.
“Hunter, the West Palm Beach housing analyst, said the mistakes that people have made in this real estate cycle will be remembered for decades.”
I don’t doubt that many people will remember their get rich quick RE plan that went ’splat’ for years to come.
What I find amusing is the number of bottom callers who are saying RE will bounce back and start it’s climb. With few exceptions, once this thing does bottom it ain’t gonna bounce anywhere. It will be lower than a snakes belly in a wagon wheel rut.
OT… Our local RE market is up a little due to the back to school parents/grandparents buying houses for Jr. Same old plan, sell in 4 years for a profit and pay for tuition.
It’s also not a “bottom” that it will hit. It will be the CORRECT PRICE! This is different from a bust. This is simply a mania coming to an end. (It has a ways to go. Median house price has to equal 2.5x median salary. Another 50% drop will do it!)
reuven,
Thank you. Btw that’s the healthy and correct attitude to have about this whole thing. I’m sorry so many people and institutions got burned ( the honest few ) but we’ve already seen that legions of FB’s have already gotten over it, “learned a lot from this experience” and they’re already moving on with their lives.
Or is jingle mail as “easy” as many seem to want to portray? I’m in the process of trading our car in and I’ve spent my share of time this week on the phone, faxing, emailing etc. I spoke w/ one young sales guy and we laughed about how even used CAR salesman now have more credibility than used HOME salesman and loan peddlers have! He described a young ( former ) co-worker ( on a commission only position ) got talked into a 2k a month PITI. The sales guy told me this debacle RUINED his friend’s life! He lost the home in under a year never taking into account all of the ‘other’ expenses ( like W/S and garbage..? ) and is now sharing an apt. on unemployment.
The guy is totally defeated, bitter and f’d for life. Tough road back!
Oh and I should add we both sneered at the fact that all of this fallout is of little consequence to the MB that got paid heep-um plenty fees to hook a 21 y.o kid up with an “infestment” he was obviously in no way prepared to deal with!?
Just met a coworker who just started RE on the side in Chicago.
She believes that Chicago is different except for the suburbs and that the condos etc around the big city are holding their value and selling, although taking a tiny bit longer. Then out of the same mouth, comes, “having MLS access now lets her see the REAL selling price which is much lower than originally listed”.
Gee, is Chicago, edgewaterjohn, etc really holding its own?
“it is different here”.
desertdweller
Your coworker might be gently reminded (if she is a pal) that the MLS no longer has a monopoly on that info. Sort of like:
Travel agents
Brokerage salespeople
Media outlets, which include blogs, Oliver Stone, Sean Hannity, properties known as MSM, and CNN and the like. Nobama could be considered an outlet, now that I think about it.
I always say you have to balance what you see, hear and read with what you know already. Getting that knowing takes time.
I suspect that all those “investors” the Relators@ see waiting on the sidelines to jump back in will prove to be dead cats.
“Rents are falling….” That’s interesting. I bet Bernanke and his Merry Band Of Numbers Manipulators will take advantage of that trend by goosing the the inflation figures down. Rents are included in inflation (now running around 2% according to Bernanke when it’s probably closer to 10%) but property prices are not…….and please, do not respond to this post with, “How do you figure inflation is running at 10%?” The answer is: My checking account tells me so…..
and please, do not respond to this post with, “How do you figure inflation is running at 10%?” The answer is: My checking account tells me so…..
I believe shadow stats calculates the rate closer to 13% and my checking account tends to agree. Unfortunately our house hold does consider food and energy to be part of the formula.
Shadow stats has ~9% per their chart right now. I’d believe that.
Or is a Honda Fit an appropriate substitution for a Tahoe or a Minivan?
Got Popcorn?
Neil
What’s Happening Is Historic
Indeed~
We are witnessing a great sea change, the magnitude of which is unparalleled not only in living history, but going back to perhaps the industrial revolution, to see such a shift.
And to see it all in real-time as it’s happening, has never been possible, until now…
I feel lucky to be a witness, from a safe vantage point, here on just the other side of nowhere.
it’s nice that my financial “worries” are
crud, my car needs tires
or my car needs a new car
or I’m ready for a new Mac but they’re a little expensive.
Certainly not the stuff that keeps one awake at nite
cereal,
The littlest things keep me awake at night, but after your post… no more!
Right, Mr. Cereal all your car needs is a ‘new’ radiator cap! See, I’ll remove it and all you need to do is drive a new car under it and then I’ll tighten it back down!
The Sun Sentinal Broward country article is a classic. It uses the following verbage to describe sales of homes:
….unloaded their homes at a loss….
…..if they can get rid of the obligation ….
…..Most people dumping properties …..
I thought housing was a no-brainer. After all the’re not making anymore land.
This is how most papers are starting to describe sales of homes these days. I posted it in bits and buckets but the appraiser took 33% off from my assessed value this year. How would you describe that if you were this particular paper?
Reversion to the mean.
An absolute mathematical certainty.
Return to sanity.
Tax Year:
Improvement Value:
Land Value:
Total Market Value:
2008 P 2007 2006
$127,107 $191,861 $201,810
$0 $0 $0
$127,107 $191,861 $201,810
Orange County, FL lowered the assessment of my property by 10% this year—without my asking! (Last year, I had my lawyer work on them and got it lowered by about 15%).
(I have 20 acres of land there. We wanted to build our retirement home there someday, in a nice state-income-tax-free state. It’s not $$$ that’s stopping us–we’re “cash” people–it’s the fear that the neighborhoods in the area will become some of the nation’s worst slums.)
Imagine what your lawyer could do to them this time around!
If 33% cut is common, Palm Beach County Government is toast next year. Government workers may actually have to worry about their jobs. God forbid PBSO and Fire depts have to cut.
33% is common only in some areas. I’m finding that most are only being cut by arount 10%. Still, we’re going to need to elect a Sheriff that’s willing to cut and not Mr. Gimme Funds Bradshaw. I don’t know how big cuts aren’t going to hit next year. Maybe we’ll lose a few dog parks.
The 10% cut isn’t selling.
And what’s with those headlines! If the fence sitters would just jump into action, we all know real estate only goes up!
Got Popcorn?
Neil
in my hood 22151 10 cops showed up to coral a naked chick
I asked how many for a guy ?
Tax me, do you want to ship me down some of whatever you’re on?
I speak bootyglyphics….
The 5-0 showed up en masse, to better ogle the distaff, but not the staff.
The use of the words “luxury” and “downtown Tampa” in the same sentence could spell the end of the universe, since matter and antimatter are mutually destructive.
Downtown Tampa is so disgusting, and so dirty, living there would be like living in a sanitary land fill–with nothing to do, nothing to see, and nowhere to go. Unless someone is into synthetic wigs (cheap wig shops abound) and drive-by shootings, he or she would fare better making camp at the Tampa sewage treatment plant, which is one of the many water features Photoshopped out of Tampa postcards and brochures.
“Downtown Tampa is so disgusting, and so dirty, living there would be like living in a sanitary land fill–with nothing to do, nothing to see, and nowhere to go.”
WOW! I was just there in January for a convention and didn’t come away with that impression. It actually didn’t strike me as any different from any other major city downtown that I’ve been to. You want a real dump let’s talk about Downtown Detroit, Downtown Gary, or Downtown Newark.
The worst part of Detroit is not the downtown, the worst parts are in the wasteland of trashed residential areas that surround it.
Climber, downtown is no picnic…just better than the rest of the city.
You need to walk around downtown. The convention center was built in the very nicest part, which still isn’t saying much.
I walked from the convention center to Hooters. Does that count?
was that you Bad? the fat balding guy with a tie so short his pulled buttons were showing?
I saw that guy walking to hooters recently.
JUST KIDDING.
No, I discovered the joys of Rogaine and Nutrisystem.
“I walked from the convention center to Hooters. Does that count?”
No, that’s mostly all new around there, though junk remains. You need to walk east from the convention center to get an accurate impression of downtown Tampa.
Dumps are generally safe, albeit unpleasant. All those places are both unpleasant and unsafe. Stop insulting the dumps Andy.
I don’t agree with you that downtown is dirty and dangerous, but there are numerous streets within the city limits — Florida and Nebraska Avenues, for instance, and Kennedy Boulevard immediately west of downtown — that fit your description. Where are the wig shops? Ybor City?
West Kennedy - attracts plasma donors who *really* need the cash.
Take the Crosstown Expressway east looking for Ybor and you can find yourself in a bad neighborhood where you might get pulled out of your car by angry youths, especially if you are the wrong color.
But the tanic Hillsborough River flows into the Bay and is pretty at sunset. It is.
Wig shops aplenty in Sulphur Springs area. Along with used car dealers selling road salt-rusted vehicles that came down I-75 and aren’t going back north.
The wig shops are right smack downtown on Franklin Street and on Florida Avenue (in the vicinity of the Tampa Theater). You can’t miss them, since there isn’t anything else.
“‘I’ve given up looking for construction work,’ he said. ‘I got my Class A driver’s license so I can drive freight trucks.’”
Now there’s a more dependable and profitable line of work, gas prices being so cheap and all…
Not to mention the fact that many trucking companies are laying people off. OTOH, the railroads are doing quite well. But they don’t need a driver for every railcar.
wait till the pol gets elected and starts doing it for
the kids
the poor
the lame
his pals
What are you talking about?
Ben, I am but an innocent farm girl. I often gaze for long minutes at taxmeupthebootay’s posts, my simple round blue eyes* filled with wonderment and a kind of mild terror. So thanks for asking the question, because I was wondering too.
Is this a recipe for soylent green tea? The beginning of a ’stream of consciousness’ novel, such as James Joyce produced? A haiku gone terribly, terribly wrong?
I wonder if taxmeupthe bootay has some sort of Rosetta stone he could post for us. Then we could translate, if we wanted.
*Actually my eyes are light green thingies, sparkling prettily with cheery malice, is what I hear, but that didn’t sound as good in the sentence. But they’re still filled up with wonderment in any case.
?!?!?!?!?
hey - don’t look at me in that tone of voice……
Is there a loanthropologist in the house?
We need somebody to decipher some bootyglyphics…
LOL-
no, but Paco Underhill is a “Retail Anthropologist”, and makes big buck-a-roos making speeches to an audience like ICSC. Where can I get a gig like that?
Kinda reminds me of Burroughs writing style. Of course, he was high out of his mind while penning his novels.. Hmm..
Junky is a great book, btw; the “TaxMe” writing style brought to its logical conclusion in a totally warped book about the decent of it’s author into madness.
descent
otherwise the sentence is unintelligible
Blather.
There is a certain unknowable, cryptic, Jabberwockian beauty to Mr. Bootay’s posts.
hahahaha
let me guess…..doling out taxpayer’s money to his pals and buddies when he gets elected.
“let me guess…..doling out taxpayer’s money to his pals and buddies when he gets elected.”
We have a winner.
“wait till the pol gets elected and starts doing it for
the kids
the poor
the lame
his pals”
What I think he’s saying is once elected, the typical politician will justify whatever he/she wants to do on the basis it will help the kids or the poor or the lame or someone deemed to be generally viewed sympathetically when in reality all it is designed to do is help his pals. Why it came up in this thread I have no idea.
When something is being justified as being done “for the kids”, that’s usually a huge sign it’s a really bad idea. Things that really are good for kids can be justified in many other ways.
I might have to check myself. I actually tend to understand taxme’s posts.
It’s Hoz and vozworth’s riddles I can’t seem to ever decipher.
I could never understand what Alice the Goon (from Popeye) was saying either. That broad was creepy to boot
Ditto that with Charlie Brown’s school teacher
Sleepless,
If you understand taxme’s posts, you shouldn’t check yourself. Someone else should check you.
LOL! And I didn’t mean to slight The Hoz and The Voz.
I figure if I could understand their posts I might actually make some money through this mess…
Ben, I have witnessed this firsthand and can attest to it being true. I thought you might like a HBBr verifying the MSM.
“Lackluster turnout at court foreclosure auctions is becoming common, according to lawyers who frequent such auctions to bid for mortgage lenders. ‘Last year, there would be tons of bidders. This year, there’s barely anyone,’ said Vincent D’Antonio, a Plantation-based attorney who on Thursday bid to keep three Broward homes for a bank.”
“Many banks are retaining most of their foreclosed properties because there are so few good bid offers at the auctions, said Louis Spagnuolo, VP for WCS Lending in Boca Raton. Also, he said, buyers have stopped attending them, turning instead to banks’ in-house real estate departments to buy property.”
“‘It’s more efficient, it’s a better deal for them and they’re buying in a non-competitive arena,’ Spagnuolo said.
Ben, at least in FL, the courthouse is not the place.
By the by, you were right, very much an insiders attorneys game.
I am justing waiting for the post when taxme tells us the number of minutes until Whopner starts…
Tax me up the Boomhower
The Tampa Tribune. “Luxury condominiums in downtown Tampa could be up for grabs soon for about $100,000 each. But there’s a catch: you’d have to buy all 171 units for at least $17.2 million, the minimum bid. That’s a bargain, considering units were originally marketed for about $200,000 to $1 million, and the developer owes the bank more than $47 million.”
“‘That’s a good deal,’ said Jack McCabe, owner of McCabe Research & Consulting in South Florida. ‘This is just the beginning of the good deals to come. The best deals will be had by people with lots of cash.’”
This will be a good deal when the price comes down low enough ($8 Million?) where you can fill it up with Section 8ers, and lease it to goverment funded nonprofits for use as halfway houses, etc. Then you can sit back and collect $$$ from Uncle Sam. But it still has a ways to go…
This is exactly what happened to Long Beach, Long Island in the 60s and 70s. (It has since “gentrified” in the 80s and 90s”). 30s buildings that were luxury beachfront were filled with mental patients!
“‘That’s a good deal,’ said Jack McCabe’”
That’s one of the less reasonable statements that Jack has made in this whole mess. $100K for a condo is still too much. I remember a while back a bad mouthed the guy for making bad statements on the run up and was almost cursed off the board!
(If anyone remembers ByeFl used to say that condos should not be more than 50K in Fl.)
I am starting to agree.
I’ve agreed with that all along, especially taking into account the condo fees, which can be pretty steep. Used to be a joke about “What’s harder to get rid of than a condo in Florida…” or something like that.
$50,000 is too high for many of them. There are condos that were marketed to first time homebuyers here with fees upwards of $300 per month! Add in taxes and contents insurance and it’s surely a no win situation!
Bad Andy,
Can’t argue your points but how many times do you to be told? ( It’s “condoze” ) damn it!
You got it then. I’ll even make it easy for taxme to understand.
CONDOZE IS EXPENSIVE!
Re: 300/month! ..taxes + fees +insurance will be more than the mortgage at 50K! Nobody in their right mind would buy.
At best, buying is an inflation hedge. When you’re starting out with these additional costs–which can rise faster than inflation–being more than the mortgage payment, it no longer makes sense to buy.
A 50K mortgage at 7% for 30 years is $332/month
I don’t think they have internet where he was headed
God, I’m happy. I don’t understand this.
McCabe went off the rails and now takes himself too seriously as an investment Gooroo.
He wasn’t on the rails to begin with. He was still telling people in 2005 that single family homes were a good investment…they weren’t and still aren’t.
I have just recently left Sarasota and now reside in St. Louis Mo and I can say that Sarasota is a disaster. There are multiple for sale, rent , and lease signs EVERYWHERE! The St. Louis area seems to be holding its own with building and rehab going on all over the place. Getting back to Sarasota the situation there appears to be near dire but do not fret as I have noted before there is a huge high end mall going up and the billion dollar condo project next to the Ritz going forward.
“This probably won’t be the last condo-related auction: Projects such as the Towers at Channelside and Trump Tower Tampa also are inching their way through bankruptcy court. Trump Tower is little more than a lot on the Hillsborough River, but developers expressed fear last month that their multi-million-dollar property may be subject to a fire sale if they don’t get a cash-rich investor.”
What a business plan!
1. Slap something together with a lot of hype
2. Hope for a cash-rich-investor
3. Profit!
Hey, it worked for MySpace, etc.
so confused. He was the investor or his daughter was the investor. If she was, why did she not drive the process and look after the investment. Why did he bring $83K to closing and not her (wouldnt the bank know that she did not have the $s)
———————————–
“Gerry Thompson bought at the height of the housing boom and soon regretted it. He paid $585,000 for a Fort Lauderdale home in 2005 for his daughter, an investor. But values started dropping the next year, and the house needed major repairs. Fed up, Thompson sold it five months ago for $380,000 - a 35 percent price cut.”
“Because he didn’t qualify for a short sale, he had to bring $83,000 at closing to make the deal work.”
“‘I was quite happy with the sale price, although it was considerably less than what we had in it,’ said Thompson, who splits his time between northern Florida and North Carolina. ‘We’re done with the real estate business, believe me.’”
Basically, he admitted in the paper that he’s committing mortgage fraud (applying for a loan as a primary residence to get a better Fannie-backed rated), and tax fraud (hiding his investments as his daughters condo, not reporting rental income from his daughter as income, etc).
The IRS has a program where you can report a fraudster and collect a percentage of recovered money. Maybe that’s the business to be in (presuming the IRS will follow up.) There may be enough data in public records for an air-tight case.
reuven!
Why are you being such a wet blanket! This is the new wealth generating engine! Tell me if you knew you wouldn’t get caught you wouldn’t do the same?
(Yeah) I’m just aghast at how casually even MB’s committed fraud just to get 1/2 or even 1/4 of a point knocked off their loan by declaring it their “primary” residence!
And what’s more outrageous is there’s no explicit wording in the Bailout and the Tax Relief bills (that exempt forgiven mortgage debt from taxation) to check for fraud!
His daughter is probably 5 years old…
Skip,
LOL! Oh and she’s on the boat title w/ him as well? I still have to say the all-time topper for me is W. Fraud Avenue where all these upscale FL loanowners were selling their homes to one another at outlandishly inflated values after a year + of sitting on the market!
Couldn’t sell for a year at 900k? All of a sudden there’s a “bidding war” and the place sells for 1.2 mil? Sure. Were they swapping spouses too, or just fake mansions?
The crowd is stunned! 7 second(s) ago SLV begins to trade at a PREMIUM to spot
OK it’s a fake headline
Anyway, we’re calling it here and you heard it here first. There is a HUGE scandal involving Comex Silver and NY Banks. The $$$ aren’t there and neither is the metal.
Do we have to talk about the daily movements of SLV on every thread? I thought this was a housing blog.
I have SLV in my porfolio! What, exactly, are you saying has happened? A google news search reveals little. Can we move this to the “forum” and not derail Ben’s great Florida post?
‘I just want a job that will pay most of my bills’
This is a great quote! I think it’s a candidate for inclusion in our hall-of-fame, along with “Suzanne researched it” and “feed the squirrels”.
I guess his job will pay most of his bills…and he’ll put the rest on credit cards? Something doesn’t make sense here.
I wonder what Suzanne is up to these days. I tried to call, but the number was disconnected.
She is off the grid now, so I have no answers. I heard that guy in the video eventually committed suicide, leaving a single note. “F___ you Suzanne, you ____________.”
Comex Bailout Anyone?
Maybe Spitzer can come out of retirement and head up a buyout of the COMEX and NYMEX by the Fed.
What do you mean, DELIVERY?
What silver
“There’s no way we could have afforded a house before,” said Katarina Lytle, 29, a first-time buyer who paid $205,000 for a house that had been listed a year ago at $355,000 in The Acreage. “My husband and I walked out of the closing, jumped in the truck and just screamed.”
First time buyers at $205K in Florida where $25k is a normal job.
methinks the screaming and wailing is just starting….
the american dream….make the masses think they are getting a royal deal when the fact of the matter is they are getting a royal screwing.
The Art of Diplomacy is telling someone to go to Hell and make them look forward to the trip.
‘The Acreage…’
Is that really what the subdivision is called? That’s sort of like naming a road ‘The Road’. I disapprove. They should call it ‘Wild-Rose Meadow Valley’ or else ‘Orchard Hill Farms’. As long as there are no wild roses, no meadows, no valley, no orchards, no hills, and no farms.
See, I’m a bit of a traditionalist, and I think subdivision names should be given according to strict regulations, such as those found in the time-honored and well-used ‘Deceitful Developer Dictionary’. Basically, whatever you cut down and plowed over, you can name your subdivision after that. Or, you can use any geographical feature located within one contiguous state and/or principality, in the case of water features. Combinations of those regulations are to be encouraged.
For example, ‘Pine Meadow Cove’ would be an exquisite blend of a situation where you chopped down all the pines, plowed up the meadow, and noticed that the next state over has a shoreline.
Yes, The Acreage is what they call an area of about 20 square miles. It’s not really a subdivision at all, but rather old agricultural and forest land that they divided into 1.25 acre parcels.
2 great posts Olympiagal. Writing from my own subdivision here in Florida: beautiful Waste Dump Mountains.
Olygal,
When we were kids the old man made a game of it! We’d drive around on Saturdays and he would drop off flyers peddling water softners ( or whatever ) and he really made no effort to conceal his contempt for sprawl. Remember these are the Chicago Suburbs in the 60’s “flight”.
The kid that came up with the most derivations or perversions of subdision names could go into the cooler and get a grape soda, oh and get yer’ old man a brewski while you’re in there will ya’?
According to the Deceitful Developer Dictionary, the new “South Beach” homes on S. Water St. in Rockport TX should really be called “Geezer Fishermen Paradise” homes and the rear access road “RV Alley.” The “South Beach” itself - a little shared strip of waterfront - would be “Old Milwaukee Sunset Cove.”
I’ve posted this Billy Collins poem before:
The Golden Years
All I do these drawn-out days
is sit in my kitchen at Pheasant Ridge
where there are no pheasant to be seen
and last time I looked, no ridge.
I could drive over to Quail Falls
and spend the day there playing bridge,
but the lack of a falls and the absence of quail
would just remind me of Pheasant Ridge.
I know a widow at Fox Run
and another with a condo at Smokey Ledge.
One of them smokes, and neither can run,
so I’ll stick to the pledge I made to Midge.
Who frightened the fox and bulldozed the ledge?
I ask in my kitchen at Pheasant Ridge.
This wouldn’t work in Florida. What are we going to call it? Panther Piss Pool?
Honestly how much money does the bank think they’ll squeeze out of Lytles? $5K? $10K?
This story is all the buzz in our area. Illegal formerly employed as a welder, work dries up, goes on a rape and pillage spree with a couple of buddies. Seriously, though, it was a bit of a shocker for Apollo Beach. One thing I don’t understand, since when does unemployment increase the peter meter? Ya gotta read some of the related stories, too. Like the mother of his child saying what a great father and provider he is, etc. The (non)natives are restless now they they’re out of work. However, here’s some “unintended consequences” of the housing bubble: illegals out of work, increased costs (socially and economically) of crime, their children they spawned that they can’t support, etc.
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/aug/21/211334/deputies-arrest-man-wanted-apollo-beach-attacks/
Am I the only one who finds it odd that this woman is named “Faux”?? As in handing out faux appraisals.
LOL
Just turned down a job offer from CA , when asked the reason I explained 600 dollar increase in pay PER YEAR was not enough to cover the ah difference in rent.
I live in Phoenix and pay 1200 per month
same thing in CA thousand Oaks 2500 per month
any questions?
That’s my mortgage payment for a 15 year loan here in Colorado. If you look at the tax load in CA it’s even worse. Here we can raise a family on one income, in CA we’d be scraping to get by on two. No thanks.
Hear, hear!
$1200 is PITI for our Nice Old House here in Cleveland (Lakewood) OH 1/2 mile from the Lake. $2500/mo gets Nice Old House ON the Lake! $1200 was considered bargain rent in Boston - for a 2BR! In Roslindale! Can’t imagine CALI. (And being able to live on one income is a huge benefit to the family…) You’d think they’d offer more than $600 lousy bucks to lure someone to the Golden State from AZ or CO…oops, my IRA just lost $600 in value while I was typing. Back to work!
(Per earlier posts: Are the a Thousand Oaks in Thousand Oaks? Or is that how many they cut down? Got dozens of ‘em on our shady street…)
Got Water?
Hubby turned down a job in So Cal that would have been a 12K a year raise and with out of this world benefits. My calculations said that would still lower our standard of living– and we’re talking about a job that was more than twice the average wage in the area. Factoring in cost of living and that state income tax….it didn’t look good.
Plus, hell, we weren’t gonna be selling our house in Miami anytime soon given the crap going on financially. So So Cal COL plus taxes, upkeep, insurance for a So FL house. I was having cows enough for a herd at the thought.
So, we stayed put and he took a job that paid 8K less, but carries farther here than in San Diego.
M
“Hunter, the West Palm Beach housing analyst, said the mistakes that people have made in this real estate cycle will be remembered for decades.”
This is why there won’t be any kind of speedy recovery or bounce-back from this debacle.
The bubble’s FB’s won’t have the financial means or the stomach to go heavy on RE leverage again. For those who didn’t particpate, tighter lending standards and hefty down payment requirements will keep a lot of them from buying. And everyone else could be stuck in their current house for a long time to come, so trading up or down will be tricky.
But this quote gets us one step closer to “Real Estate, yuk!”. When that becomes the battle cry of the sheeple, it’s safe to buy a house.
Somehow I doubt that people will remember it for decades. Already there are people fishing around trying to figure out what the next bubble is so they can get in early.
Whatever happened to the old days when people were satisfied with more modest rates of return on their investments? Now everyone wants the huge rates of returns which by definition aren’t sustainable which leads to these weird bubbles as the specuvestors flit from one fad to the next.
“A: The Carlyle just looks empty, Deborah, but it’s really the slow housing market. The developer of the five-story, two-building housing complex - aptly named Carlyle Development, LLC - finished construction in November, but only 15 of the 60 units have been sold.”
“The place looks abandoned because of the 15 sold units, only six are occupied and only one is occupied on a year-round basis. However, a few more of the sold units are ready to rent out, so you should see some more activity at the complex in the coming months.”
As the great Wizard of Oz once said - “Nothing to see here” - literally.