The Wreckage Of A Once-Booming Housing Market
A report from Florida Today. “Recent statistics compiled by the current president of the Melbourne Area Association of Realtors show that about 28 percent of the single-family homes for sale in Brevard County are foreclosed properties or involve short-sale agreements between the lender and the seller. That’s a sizeable number, real estate representatives say, but hardly atypical in communities where in the heyday of an overheated market a person could buy a house one day, sell it a few hours later and make a quick $70,000 profit.”
“Foreclosure and short sales are a big part of the market, Dale Young, president of the Melbourne Area Association of Realtors, said.”
“‘I would say a good 70 percent of the activity right now is people who are looking for bargains and at short sales. Whether it’s for their own residence or an investment, those seem to be the people that are out there,’ Young added.”
“Locally, Palm Bay leads Brevard, where 46 percent of 1,515 homes on the local Multiple Listing Service are foreclosed or short-sale properties, according to figures compiled by Young at FLORIDA TODAY’s request.”
“Thomas Stewart had been trying to sell his Palm Bay home on Appleby Street for nearly 13 months. Before he moved to South Florida, Stewart invested thousands of dollars in upgrades. He had the 1,270-square-foot, two-bedroom home on the market for $139,900. Unfortunately for him, he was forced to drop the asking price.”
“He sold it last month to Jody Ballard for $99,900. Stewart declined to comment on the sale. Ballard was thrilled to buy his first home.”
“‘I knew there was no way I could have afforded a home at the prices like they were three years ago,’ said Ballard. ‘This one kind of fit just right. He put a lot of money into the house and I took advantage of that.’”
The Palm Beach Post. “Lower property values mean lower taxes, and that’s something of interest to everyone. Given the precipitous decline of the real estate market, many people will be pleased to see the market and assessed values of their property decline.”
“But others will conclude their property value should be lower than the numbers determined by the country’s property appraiser. Experts predict a wave of property value changes by homeowners hoping to cut their taxes.”
“‘The economy is so bad, everybody is counting their dollars,’ said Jason Sharff, who has started a business to help homeowners challenge their property values.”
“Rebel Cook, of Rebel Cook Real Estate in Palm Beach Gardens, said she’s noticed ‘dramatic’ decreases in property values among residences she’s checked. For instance, a West Palm Beach home in a 55-and-over community was valued at $73,000 this year, down from $103,000 last year, she said.”
The Miami Herald. “Alfonso Llanes of Palmetto Bay, is one of more than 400,000 South Florida homeowners who are discovering that taxes are going down — but not by much, and not nearly as much as the dramatic dives in real market values over the past two years. ‘I was expecting a lot more than this,’ said Llanes.”
“Llanes is facing a scenario that will be quite common across Florida during this fall’s budget season. The market value of the 2,800-square-foot home that Llanes acquired when his wife died four years ago plummeted by $157,000 between last year and this year. Yet, the taxable value increased by $15,000.”
“‘My market value is down almost 30 percent. Thirty percent! I have more exemptions than I did last year because I’m a senior now and they passed the tax reform. But I’m paying almost the same in taxes. How can that be?,’ he said.”
“Coky Michel is struggling to pay the taxes and upkeep on a South Miami rental property that she and her husband inherited when her mother died six years ago. Appraisers pegged her house’s market value at $408,000, Michel said. ‘I guarantee you I can’t sell that house for $408,000. My point is: If prices have been going down for more than a year, why isn’t my tax bill showing it?’”
“‘There’s a lot of confusion out there,’ said Broward Appraiser Lori Parrish, who is answering 300 e-mails a day from angry taxpayers. ‘There usually is this time of year, but it’s gotten worse.’”
“In recent months, several South Florida agents have started offering bus tours as a way to dispel myths about buying foreclosures while capitalizing on consumer interest in bank-owned property.”
“‘Five years ago, we took orders: It was ‘Which one do you want and when do you want to close?’ That’s all we did. But now, in order to be successful you have to be different from every other agent out there,’ said Kimberly Castellotti, a Wellington-based real estate broker.”
“Broker Roy La Fontaine said he scheduled and advertised a bus tour. The tour required buyers to pay $25 to get preapproved for a loan. He abandoned the idea. ‘I thought we would be overwhelmed with calls on it and the response was anything but,’ La Fontaine said.”
“Julio Sanchez, who, with a partner, launched Miami Home Tours in March, hopes to schedule another tour this month in the Brickell area. ‘Basically, it’s just, ‘Get on the bus so you can get a deal.’ And they take a look at property that is 60 percent off,’ Sanchez said. ”
The New York Times. “For sale: one newly constructed three-bedroom, four-bathroom home near the University of Miami, with South African wood in the kitchen, marble from India, Egypt and Spain, and a $4,500 top-of-the-line garage door.”
“Listing price two years ago: $979,000. Listing price now: $599,000.”
“‘I always figured the market trend wouldn’t catch me,’ said Rafael Diaz, the owner and builder. He turned down $770,000 more than a year ago, he said, and has come to accept that he will never get the $700,000 he said he needed to break even. ‘By the end of the year,’ he said, ‘I might just turn it over to the bank.’”
“Robert Falor is down on his luck. Although this real estate developer is hardly a household name, he cut deals with plenty of people who were. Deftly working the celebrity circuit, while claiming to be developing more than $1 billion worth of properties around Miami and Chicago, a newspaper called him the ‘condo-hotel king.’ Today, the king’s realm is nearly bankrupt.”
“His lawyer, Ariel Weissberg said Falor’s woes and those of his business partners are a reflection of a flawed business strategy and nothing more.”
“‘He got caught in a bad concept — which is the hotel-condo concept,’ he said. ‘That’s a failed concept. With a failed concept, he was swept along. That was a bitter lesson, and he is trying to learn how to deal with all that financial distress.’”
The St Petersburg Times. “The full extent of the financial carnage left behind by bankrupt Smith Family Homes was revealed in a court filing showing the Tampa builder stiffing lenders nearly $50-million.”
“What could be bad news for homeowners is that Smith is delinquent paying back $3.3-million in Community Development District bonds used to finance Hillsborough’s Panther Trace and Pasco’s Seven Oaks neighborhoods…In other neighborhoods, such large delinquencies have left homeowners on the hook for the debt.”
From Highlands Today. “Are deeply discounted home prices finally lifting Highlands County’s beleaguered real-estate market? Yes and no - depending on who you speak with - although some do say their phones have finally started ringing.”
“If 2007 was bad, 2008 was worse, according to statistics on residential property sales compiled by Steve Fruit, Realtor with RE-MAX Realty Plus. Fruit said that from January to July, only 591 residential properties were sold compared to 744 for the same period last year. That represents a 20-percent drop in sales compared to last year and the slowest sales in a seven-year period, according to Fruit’s numbers.”
“The highest sales are being seen in properties below $100,000 and the second-highest between $100,000 and $150,000. Fruit said that home prices have declined from 15 to 30 percent since their peak of 2005, although some areas have weathered the price drop better.”
“To some like broker Greg Karlson, today’s home prices couldn’t get better, and buyers should stop waiting. At some point, sellers will be more picky about their offers and are ‘not going to take (offers on) such home prices any more,’ he added.”
The Destin Log. “It’s been a month since the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 was passed and The Log questioned whether it would jump start the sluggish real estate market in Destin. In a word - no.”
“‘I wish that were the case, but it’s not the silver bullet some people might think,’ Ed Smith, owner of RE/MAX Coastal Properties, said. ‘The majority of the properties in this market won’t qualify.’”
“In the Destin area, home prices still remain 40 percent lower than they were just two years ago and the supply still far outweighs the demand. Smith said that interest rates are still comparable at about 6.25 percent.”
“‘It’s unprecedented to have a buyer’s market and low interest rates at the same time, but that’s what we have right now,’ Smith said.”
The Herald Tribune. “Sarasota and Manatee counties together now have 23,265 people officially out of work — up 8,400, or 56 percent, from July 2007. Dry statistical facts, unless, like Don Howk, you are one of the ones whose jobs went away.”
“Howk has made an exploratory trip to Elkhart, Ind., where he has family and friends. He may need to move in with them because he is about to lose his Sarasota home. He has owned the home for 17 years, but refinanced during the real estate boom.”
“‘If I hadn’t done that, I would be in good shape now,’ he said.”
The Ledger. “Polk County’s July unemployment rate (the most recent available) of 7.3 percent was the highest in a decade, and there are untold numbers of displaced workers who are more qualified and interview-hardened. Polk, like numerous other communities in Florida, has seen jobs and businesses disappear at an increasing pace as the state limps its way out of the wreckage of a once-booming housing market and economy.”
“‘Certainly, the data we have right now looks worse to me than the 2001 recession. This has hit the financial sector, hit the housing sector,’ said County economist Gordon Kettle.”
“Local population growth is still robust, Kettle said, and businesses will undoubtedly rebound as they have before, though the record performances in housing and job markets in 2005 and 2006 should probably be forgotten for now.”
“‘I think what you’ve seen in the last few years was unsustainable so you knew there was going to be some kind of correction anyway,’ Kettle said.”
The News Press. “Fort Myers resident Brent Edwards has watched the local economy boom and bust, taking his short construction career right along with it. Edwards, 26, said every dollar he has ever earned came through construction. But his days on the job site are over.”
“‘I was working here before the construction boom, when everybody from all over the country came in, built everything in sight and killed this market,’ the third-generation Fort Myers resident said. ‘All they did was ruin it for me. I can’t go through this again.’”
“This Labor Day, Edwards isn’t the only one who doesn’t feel much like celebrating. Across Southwest Florida, more than 44,000 people are out of work - more than half of them in Lee County.”
“Not all of the job losses have come through construction, of course. But the losses in the building trade kicked the foundation out from under much of Lee’s economy. When the supply of homes exceeded demand, real estate agents had listings, but few buyers. Mortgage brokers had few takers. Furniture stores had few customers. Layoffs mounted.”
“James Moore, the interim director of Lee’s Economic Development Office, has said that diversifying the economy must be the No. 1 goal of the office. Moore said his office has long understood that the local economy is ‘way too reliant on two big industries - tourism and what I will call real estate-related industries.’”
“That must change, he said. ‘In the best of all possible worlds, we will never be reliant again on a single industry to have that strong of an economy,’ he said.”
“Sean Snaith, an economist with University of Central Florida, said much of Florida has suffered, but it has been especially pronounced in Southwest Florida.”
“‘When the housing boom was raging and the economy was being fed by construction, you had tremendously low unemployment and good economic growth,’ Snaith said. ‘When the housing market went bust, there was no safety net. Economic diversity is very, very important.’”
“Gladys Pascua, 42, worked for Nestle in New York and thought she could find a similar job easily in Southwest Florida after reading how much the area had been growing. When she and her husband arrived here earlier this year, things were more difficult than they expected.”
“‘I would think that in the 21st century that it would be about time that there would be some major corporations here, but it’s really just lots of mom-and-pop businesses and construction,’ Pascua said. ‘I was surprised by how few large companies there were.’”
Economic diversity is very, very, very, very important.
It’s been a while since we heard from Sean Snaith, the “economist” from UCF. Thanks for the laugh.
Ah, Sean ‘Soufle’ Snaith.
A complete and total wanker.
“Error” or deliberate misinformation from Zillow: I noticed the past few months in Clark County, WA that Zestimates strangely stopped declining and started rising. I started looking into the recent sales and found something quite strange, what is being reported as sales prices are actually the foreclosure delinquincies (outstanding balances plus fines, etc.) They are easily identified because they are down an exact dollar amount (eg $342,247, $423,345). What’s odd is they are not reporting foreclosures when they are returned to the lender, but they are only reporting REO sales upon resale, and the typical resale is 40-70K less than the reported delinquincy amout (I looked up a bunch on the county’s website), thereby re-inflating Zestimates and Sales. The average J6P obviously will think prices are on the rise again. THis is BS.
Zestimate, Noun (plural zestimates)
1. A guess.
2. (real estate) A fictitious number bearing little to no resemblance to the real value of the property. Also known as “when pigs fly” and “monkeys will fly out of my butt” numbers.
3. (mathematics and statistics) Some numbers are real, some are complex, and some are imaginary. Then there are zestimates. Zestimate occupies all probable number planes simultaneously and collapses into a single number at the moment it is observed. This number is often the maximum theoretical market value of the property, subjected to fluctuations of the Earth’s magnetosphere, flight patterns of migratory birds, mating habits of Pandas raised in captivity, and the amount of bellybutton lint produced by the members of Tasaday tribe under the age of thirteen.
incredulous,
Simply, well… incredulous!
Can you B-elieve those clowns? According to that measure my daughter’s 2004 Mitsubishi is worth her original loan amount and ‘if’ she were to default on her loan..?
zilliw is way over glorified and totally useless
Zillow is a joke.
I’ve closely followed the market here in Sarasota, FL for 2 plus years. Zillow is grossly overstating values. Last month they claimed houses in my neighborhood ROSE nearly 2% in value. I checked the comps and it’s RIDICULOUS!
Really? Maybe in markets with drastic changes in a short time. In Michigan (Detroit suburbs), I have found the zillow estimates to be very close to market. Way better than the wishing prices of most consumers.
Zillow currently has my house in RPV, Ca. valued @ 5% less than I sold it for, almost 3 years ago-@ the top of the market.
That ain’t right…
Cleveland has whole neighborhoods zillowed in the 50 to 75K’s; one just sold for 2300.00. Its commode mate next door is still zillowed at 59K. Totally bogus and not worth looking up, unless you’re interested in recent sales.
Economic diversity is very, very, very, very important.
It’s been a while since we heard from Sean Snaith, the “economist” from UCF. Thanks for the laugh.
Of course. It needs to be diversified into:
SFHs
Condos
Apts.
Commercial property
realtors
mortgage brokers
developers
subcontractors
building materials
did I miss anything?
So far, we are only really seeing the pipsqueak to medium size homebuilders going bankrupt, and look at the repercussions…
Imagine what happens when the big boys go b/k?
========================================
“The full extent of the financial carnage left behind by bankrupt Smith Family Homes was revealed in a court filing showing the Tampa builder stiffing lenders nearly $50-million.”
“What could be bad news for homeowners is that Smith is delinquent paying back $3.3-million in Community Development District bonds used to finance Hillsborough’s Panther Trace and Pasco’s Seven Oaks neighborhoods…In other neighborhoods, such large delinquencies have left homeowners on the hook for the debt.”
‘…used to finance Hillsborough’s Panther Trace and Pasco’s Seven Oaks neighborhoods…In other neighborhoods, such large delinquencies have left homeowners on the hook for the debt.”
Betcha there’s not a trace of panthers anywhere NEAR that development. Betcha there’s no oaks, either–not even Seven of them. Hey, maybe they could change the names! Foreclosure Meadows, for instance.
That’s an interesting idea. If you change the name to Foreclosure meadows, would the foreclosures disappear?
Housing developments are often named after what they destroyed to take their place. Falcon Crest, Tall Oaks, Whispering Pines, etc etc.
Ours was named after a large hill behind it: Mariana Butte.
So far the Butte is still there.
So she moved to FL on a song and a prayer, and the “hope” that there would be businesses that she could get a job at?
OMG.
The average person’s decision making just leaves me baffled. Not to mention that they were probably speculating on houses too.
For many people who live in the northeast and midwest, Florida has a strange, mystic allure that seems to void all common sense. When you’re packing your bags for your arrival in “paradise,” why worry about such persnickety details as employment, the price of housing, cost of living, and hurricanes?
Traditionally Florida’s appeal was that it was cheap and warm, wasn’t it? I never understood the appeal I don’t even want to visit. I could put up with the bugs but the humidity is a real deal breaker for me.
actually I meant I could put up with the humidity not the bugs.
No kidding, I hate the bugs, today I had a cockroach run across my bed…..so gross, they call them “Palmeadow bugs”
With all of this rain we have been having they are finding ways to get in my house!!
I once had one run across my hand when I was in my bed!!
No one told me of these horrors before I moved here.
Funny when we lived in The Bahamas this never happened once!
This house must have a lot of cracks.
I don’t presume to explain why Florida is a “magic” place for so many who live east of the Mississippi. Just know that it is. You can tell them about crime, high population density, hurricanes, humidity, “palmettos” (they’re called cockroaches everywhere else…and in FL, they’re the size of VW’s) and hurricanes until you’re blue in the face…to them, Florida is still “paradise.”
A friend of a friend who is a registered nurse took a cut in pay to transfer from a low-cost midwest state to South Florida…simply because it’s MagicLand.
Wonder how that’s working out for her.
Well jez guys, I live in FL.
For the most part I’ve lived here for 40 years.
I love it!
I’ve not locked my home in the last 6-7 years in 3 different places I’ve lived.
Palmettos are easily controlled with proper caulking. Last time I saw one inside with me was in 2002-03.
Where I presently live there are 5 units occupied of 36 (changes in Jan) So 8-9 months out of the year I hardly see a soul.
Crime, bugs and overcrowding? Depends on where you live.
_
Humidity, well, that is a bummer (but beats shoveling snow any day.)
Hurricanes? Slept through Andrew and it passed 20 miles away.
The devastation was unbelievable, but really it’s a crap shoot.
I do appreciate the negative publicity though, for the obvious reasons.
Fl in the 70s…. now THAT was unspoiled sheer bliss.
You can tell them about crime, high population density, hurricanes, humidity, “palmettos” (they’re called cockroaches everywhere else…and in FL, they’re the size of VW’s) and hurricanes until you’re blue in the face…to them, Florida is still “paradise.”
To much Walt Disney World, IMO. I must admit its amazing how they control the environment in the Mouse’s house.
Humidity, well, that is a bummer (but beats shoveling snow any day.)
I’ll take 3 months of winter over 9 months of sweltering heat, humidity and bugs. And out of those 3 months there are only 10-15 “snow days” out here anyway. It is so refreshing to be able to go for a walk and not have to fight off bugs left and right and not return home a sweaty drenched mess.
Florida:
A whole lot warmer in winter than Southern California.
No state income tax.
Only half as far away for northeastern snowbirds.
About half the housing cost compared to So Cal.
OK, there is a lot missing in FL, but a lot to brag about.
Decided to put some ribs on the grill for the holiday yesterday. I live where Tropical Storm Fay dumped about 3 feet of water. The new crop of Mosquitos are popping.
So I am out back, all woods cause it is a retention area in my shorts. Feel something on my legs, look down and there isn’t one square inch of skin without a skeeter. Needless to say, the ribs went into the oven.
Florida is a nice place to live, except for August and September. Stifling heat, bugs, hurricanes. Too windy and rainy for boating and golf. Nothing to do but go to work and hang out inside watching football.
Sorry to say but nothing in Florida is great..after living there for 20 years.. I have seen all the changes and paradise was lost a long time ago..it started when Adam Walsh was kidnapped (America’s Most Wanted- Son of Mr. Walsh) in the 80’s, and killed for simple playing in the clothing rack and his mom looked away for a min in Sears…everything went downhill from that point..
Florida can keep the bacteria, rip tide( just had 3 people die this weekend) shark infested fake beach sand, the con artists (#1 for Mortgage Fraud in the country) and rude people…
You can have better quality people, better summers and spring without harsh winters in many other parts of the USA..where the cost of housing and living still gives you a great quality of life…I don’t even have a desire to visit…
sharks are cool, we swim with them all the time
In the early ’80’s when I moved down there, I came to the realization that; EVERYTHING IN FLORIDA RUSTS, ROTS, OR CORRODES…AND THAT INCLUDES THE PEOPLE….
Florida is a tropical hell 7 months out of the year, and a paradise the rest. It is exotic (at least to this midwestern boy) in a way that California never can be, though thinks it is. Everybody in the state should be forced to leave and the whole peninsula declared a national monument, except for the occasional hotel, and seafood restaurants, which should be located at one mile intervals.
Why not? That’s the strategy many nouveau-Portlanders use! No word yet on how that’s working out.
Like it’s some kind of D/FW-like corporate relocation destination.
She could try Harris Computer, or Publix.
Snaith Plissken plans his “Escape from Florida”
=========================================
“Sean Snaith, an economist with University of Central Florida, said much of Florida has suffered, but it has been especially pronounced in Southwest Florida.”
“‘When the housing boom was raging and the economy was being fed by construction, you had tremendously low unemployment and good economic growth,’ Snaith said. ‘When the housing market went bust, there was no safety net. Economic diversity is very, very important.’”
“‘When the housing boom was raging and the economy was being fed by construction, you had tremendously low unemployment and good economic growth,’ Snaith said. ‘When the housing market went bust, there was no safety net. Economic diversity is very, very important.’”
This dickweed thinks it was “good” economic growth? The problem was/is that it was not “good” growth. Snaith has his job for life no doubt, so he can spit out just about any remark, and not be called on it.
wmbz,
That was the very argument that put a dark cloud over my Labor Day weekend ( as if we need one in Oregon ) So many people have gladly embraced the role of Bedroom Community they can’t be bothered to think about what comes next?
I was at a party where I knew everybody with the exception of this (1) guy. He couldn’t understand how antique dealers, dog groomers and endless festivals/events do not constitute “good” growth? In so many instances small town America is bending over backwards to become some kind of Brigadoon to attract retirees to the point of excluding virtually any other form of organic growth!
Somehow he seemed to think staging vintage hot rod shows for aging boomers was a “growth industry”. Hey I give up.
The New Economy in Small Town America = Fighting beak and claw to exchange “tourist” dollars with each other
mikey,
My point exactly. I finally asked this guy, at what point do you think that having a festival/event EVERY damn weekend isn’t just diluting the same entertainment dollars?
What I *did find encouraging was that ( even with as obnoxious as this guy was ) his militant defense seemed very well rehearsed. In other words, the chorus saying “we’re tired of living in a fish bowl” is growing!
What makes it tough is that one of their core arguments is that “this is for charity” etc. Well, uh… o.k, we’ll get strippers to go down the street in a float parade in g-strings but since it’s “for a good cause” no one should be able to say a word, right?
‘o.k, we’ll get strippers to go down the street in a float parade in g-strings but since it’s “for a good cause” no one should be able to say a word, right?’
Right! Except for ‘This is a GREAT parade!’ We should all be able to say that word, of course.
And may I say, DinOr, you have excellent ideas. I have to help plan a fundraiser for the Christmas holiday season–may I borrow your idea? I’ll present it, with credit to you, to the others next meeting. Except, I just thought of this, since I’m just up the road from you here in Olympia, the strippers would get all soggy and cold from all the chilly rain.
Oh, no! Bad! Maybe they could have umbrellas and moving space heaters?
Olympiagal,
LOL! Yes, and those would have to be ’some’ kind of space heaters wouldn’t they! What it seems no one has stopped to weigh is that we are surrendering our privacy and peace and quiet for… basically nothing?
The primary beneficiaries are your local REIC cartel members. It gives the proverbial Goose that laid the Golden Egg ( ‘wealthy’ boomers/CA’s ) the total impression that “there’s ALWAYS something going on in ____ville” and they wouldn’t be bored so now they break out those wallets!
I’ve spoke w/ a lot of local bus. people and the overwhelming majority tell me they don’t see a jump in revenue at all? Bored people showing up for Fest Fest aren’t usually going to pick up that set of tires they’ve been meaning to get?
The Fest Fests have become genuine sacred cows and offering even a moment’s doubt can really brand you! But I have to believe when you can get some of the local Chamber of Comm. members on the side they’d readily admit it’s mostly a waste of time.
I’d sure like to see the employment numbers for these full time “charitable organizers”
Another “growth industry”
Gulfstream-fixer,
As would I. My guess is that when it’s all said and done the intended recipients get very little if any benefit. I suppose though the reason this has become something of a “crusade” ( and that wasn’t my intent but it has ) is that we have such a short summer here in the PNW. So short in fact you wouldn’t believe it!
Unless something really drastically improves I’m cutting this one off at 7 weeks. 7 weeks. That’s it! Yet we seem bound and determined to fill every last sunny day up with this, that or the other event? Isn’t summer just groovy all on it’s own? Does it really ‘need’ anything?
We have a solid 9 ( if not 10 ) months of rain. Isn’t that really where the boredom and cabin fever strikes? Go ahead and fill every last one of those up with as many crowd gathering events as you like but can we please, PLEASE leave our all too brief Oregon summers TF alone!?
Oh please! You’d never survive in New York, LA, SF or Chicago.
The government payrolls are full of these people.
You think the parades just organize themselves?
“My point exactly. I finally asked this guy, at what point do you think that having a festival/event EVERY damn weekend isn’t just diluting the same entertainment dollars? ”
LOL, it’s a good thing they only have the Flugtag every 4 years here then, huh?
Faster Pussycat, sleepless,
LOL! No I certainly don’t think these parades just ‘fall’ into place! ( I just never thought anyone should be making a ‘career’ out of it? ) I actually grew up in Chicago and other than St. Pat’s and the Blues Festival I really don’t recall all that much going on?
In my emails to our local mayor I tried to lighten up the exchange by saying “I’m only looking to slow the “growth” of these events” ( and evidently he didn’t see the humor in that? )
I just gotta say, we sold everything, and moved out of Palm Beach County by the end of 2005….currently living in Western North Carolina, where the weather is fantastic….most daytime highes in the 80’s…nightime lows in the 60’s….Winter is not really all that bad, compared to the doldrums of summer heat in So. Florida….You sleep almost every night with a blanket….December, January, and February can be just a tynie bit cold, but then we can always go to Florida , for a month or so….Taxes are a fraction of what we paid, and insurance is miniscule…..
DinOR,
I lived in Chicago for 8 years. Let me refresh your memory. There were and still are the following:
St. Paddy’s (where they dye the river green)
Blues Festival
Taste of Chicago
The Air & Water Show
Venetian Night
Country Music Festival
Gospel Music Festival
Printers’ Row Book Fair
Celtic Fest
The Chicago Marathon
Summer Orchestra Festival
Fireworks
Jazz Festival
¡Viva! Latin Music Festival (yeah, with exclamations!)
And that’s just what I remember from the top of my head. There’s plenty of dough there for several careers, and several hands in the cookie jar too, if you know what I mean.
Don’t get me started on NYC.
“Somehow he seemed to think staging vintage hot rod shows for aging boomers was a “growth industry”. Hey I give up.
DinOR, I know how you feel, it’s pointless beating your head against a brick wall.
P.S.
A friend of my sisters is thinking of opening a candle making shop. I suggested a scrap book store as well… : - )
wmbz,
I hope you told her to “Never go full retard”!
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr…
Don’t be forgettin’ the pirate store, landlubbers~
They opened up a superhero store on the east coast. Talk about not understanding your market.
Whatchoo talkin’ about, man? Kids love superheroes.
Of course, since their parents no longer have HELOC’s, this may not really be relevant.
BWAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
When I was a kid, The Mustang Ranch would have a float in the Carson City 4th of July Parade. The “Ladies” would throw free drink passes to the crowd from the float.
Damn if that was not the most popular float in the whole parade!!
“James Moore, the interim director of Lee’s Economic Development Office, has said that diversifying the economy must be the No. 1 goal of the office. Moore said his office has long understood that the local economy is ‘way too reliant on two big industries - tourism and what I will call real estate-related industries.’”
Lee County???
Sounds just like San Diego!
And thousands of other places….unfortunately.
Its both funny and sad to read the business section in the Ft. Collins paper, as virtually all “business” stories are about another coffee or bagel shop that opened or closed. If it wasn’t for Colorado State University this town would shrivel up and blow away.
A friend of mine who has been struggling to get his mom n pop espresso shop into the black for some time told me that a local banker told him that the recovery is only 6 months away. I told him that’s when the Alt-A wave of foreclosures will begin. He had no idea what I was talking about. After I explained he had a really bad “oh sh-t” look on his face (small wonder we seldom have lunch, I always have bad news).
I get the same treatment….People just don’t like to face the reality of this very, very grim situation…..I tell them, that real esate is not going to bottom out till 2013, and they think I’m nuts….Then I tell them about the pay-option mortgages, and they have no inkling of what I’m talking about….Then I hit them, with the fact that real estate went down 16 years in a row, in Japan,,,,,[yes...that 16 yrs...""CONSECUTIVE""...]..
DAUUUHH!! Their faces gloss over, and want to change the subject…..OR….they turn around and walk away…..
Dale Carnagie should have written a book on how to get rid of friends FAST
“Gladys Pascua, 42, worked for Nestle in New York and thought she could find a similar job easily in Southwest Florida after reading how much the area had been growing. When she and her husband arrived here earlier this year, things were more difficult than they expected.”
Well Gladys. It’s time to don your sanitary hairnet and gloves and head back to the cocoa pebbles bagging operation.
Gladys did doing a little investigation before you moved ever enter on your brain scan. Gladys, you are a day later and many dollars short, but given your polyanna attitude I’m sure you’ll be able to line up some unemployment bene’s.
And what with these new internets and all, it’s easier than ever to do so.
I see this sort of thing all the time on a Disney board I frequent. People come here on vacation, love it in large part because they’re on vacation, and decide to just move on down. It’s so stupid and puts a huge strain on social services and local food banks.
We have the same problem here in Tucson.
But, in a moment of confession, Slim admits to being one of those people who moved here without any job prospects. That was in 1987.
For the first three months, I had temp and part-time jobs. Plus a volunteer gig at a very well connected local organization. I found my first fulltime job while I was reading the paper in this organization’s lobby. (A monsoon storm was raging outside, my volunteer shift had ended, but I sure as heck couldn’t go anywhere.)
The trick to getting up and running here is to be willing to take a job, any job, while you’re looking for something that’s more in line with your skills and experience. And expecting that job to be handed to you is just plain foolish.
“Well Gladys. It’s time to don your sanitary hairnet and gloves and head back to the cocoa pebbles bagging operation.”
Gladys’ company shut its doors. At first Nestle was bought out by a South African company and hired back its workers. But w/in less than a year, I think, the money from SA stopped coming, according to local company reps. Soon the electricity was shut off, and weeks later the doors were locked again.
Actually Hershy’s had a position open, it was part time and paid 12.00 an hour.
Great opportunity for free chocolate but no benefits that are actually worth something.
“‘My market value is down almost 30 percent. Thirty percent! I have more exemptions than I did last year because I’m a senior now and they passed the tax reform. But I’m paying almost the same in taxes. How can that be?,’ he said.”
Because moron, the mill rates are the 2nd “magical” number in determining your taxes. Come on, it’s not that hard is it? Don’t these people realize that their taxes are a PERCENTAGE of the value of their home, and that the percentage can MOVE with a vote of the taxing bodies.
The stupidity of the FL tax system is baffling. The stupidity of the people who are continually “shocked” by it is just beyond comprehension. Mill rates are going to continue to go up to replace the “lost” revenue from falling home prices. And yes, that even effects those with massive SOH subsidies.
Exactly Michael….And with that type of “taxing power” you will never be able to rein in local or state goverment…Prop #13 in California (With some inequities) did just that….
Wow, I can hardly believe that California has a smaller government now than in 1978, I would have thought they would have just shifted the taxes to other areas.
I am not suggesting the Cali goverment is smaller what I am saying is Prop. #13 put a stop to the county assessor from just “unilateraly” imposing higher taxes on real estate on a whim…We then backed that up with a “State Level” tax increase limitation that requires a 2/3 majority vote..With all that said, where has it got us ?? Nowhere as usual..We are 15 bil in the whole right now and you can likely double that for next year…
….”in the whole right now and you can likely double that for next year…
?
Nah, that’s not the problem at all.
If you buy your house for $150K in 1999 and watch it zoom up to $350K in 2005 and watch it zoom back down to $220K in 2008, you are going to get a tax increase. Why? Because Save Our Homes requires a 3% increase in taxes if your taxable value is less than your market value. If you start at $150K, you have a long way to go to reach your market value.
If you want to fix the problem, change how the property valuation calculations work. Dump comps, and go to something like median income to median house ratios or rent vs own calculations. Bubbles won’t put a whole bunch of money in government any more, and declines won’t hurt as much.
Of course, real estate agents would never want people to see the real value of the home they’re buying, and real estate agents own the republican party in florida.
“Dump comps, and go to something like median income to median house ratios or rent vs own calculations.”
I don’t think you’ve hit the right area. The problem was PHONEY sales. 100-125% financing is not a “sale”. It is a paper transfer of title. A proper SALE requires “valuable consideration”, meaning a substantial cost to the buyer.
Exclude all sales that use “creative financing”, 100% financing, and special relations between parties. Also exclude any “gift” down-payments and all other special arrangements.
Minimum down-payment of 10%, preferably 20% sales using fully amortized mortgages should be the only basis to determine “MARKET VALUE”.
Anything else is not being sold at ‘market’, but is a rigged speculative gamble. This should never have been the basis for fair value of houses here in Florida. The appraisers are at fault.
Just got my tax bill on my FL rental, 30% reduced assessment/ 15% less tax. Mill rate just over 2%.
The News Press. “Fort Myers resident Brent Edwards has watched the local economy boom and bust, taking his short construction career right along with it. Edwards, 26, said every dollar he has ever earned came through construction. But his days on the job site are over.”
“‘I was working here before the construction boom, when everybody from all over the country came in, built everything in sight and killed this market,’ the third-generation Fort Myers resident said. ‘All they did was ruin it for me. I can’t go through this again.
Gonna be a lot of reuined speculators, greater fools, RE agents and lenders all saying the same thing and all of THEM…blaming it all on the mysterious evil …”THEY” people, of which, they were not a part of
mikey,
Well, see wmbz’s comments above but here we are again confronting people that just can’t seem to comprehend what is and what isn’t sustainable? If he was there building before the boom, he must have started at a very young age.
Had he been involved in building aircraft hangars and mfr. facilities he’d have a legitimate complaint. But seriously, who in their right mind would think that building SFH’s forever is sustainable?
For sure DinOR.
My Dad finally gave me one of his old, well used hammer-heads with a new hickory handle when I was 10 years old. I had been the gopher and chief board bearer for him and my older brother forever. Many a day, we drove nails for him from dawn to dusk on fences, barns or building our houses.
My son is a great homegrown capenter and jack of all trades. He is also an Civil/Enviromental Engineer. And although we all hate nail guns, I suspect that they serve their purpose when used correctly.
I’d would just hate to depend on squeezing one to provide a living and a future in these days and times:)
“To some like broker Greg Karlson, today’s home prices couldn’t get better, and buyers should stop waiting. At some point, sellers will be more picky about their offers and are ‘not going to take (offers on) such home prices any more,’ he added.”
Yeah - that could happen in 2012…
They won’t be taking offers because they will no longer be holding the titles anymore.
“To some like broker Greg Karlson, today’s home prices couldn’t get better, and buyers should stop waiting”.
I have more respect for the used car pimp down at Crazy Al’s used car emporium on the frontage road, wearing a Mr. “T” starter kit with white patent leather shoes, madras pants and matching belt. Than these douche bags!
‘…and a $4,500 top-of-the-line garage door.”
How do you have a garage door worth 4K +? Is it mink lined? My garage door is just, you know, a garage door. It goes up and down when I press the little button. But on the other hand, I had a dinner party recently and and after awhile someone* drew a large and dynamic picture of cowboy zombies chasing some leprechauns on it, with colored chalk from the DollarTree. Does that make it more valuable? I bet it does, because these are very artistically rendered leprechauns, with their cunning little shamrock cummerbunds and everything. Plus, it still goes up and down.
*I was that someone, mostly. I think. Can’t remember all the details.
Oh, Olympiagal. You are so naive.
Can’t believe you don’t realize how important it is that garage doors don’t look like…you know…a GARAGE DOOR. The idea that you need a GARAGE to store your three luxury automobiles is tres gauche.
Instead, the doors should look like entrances to a French chalet…or a dude ranch…or a Tudor castle…or a Victorian manse…
http://www.clopaydoor.com/Showcaseofdoors.aspx
Imagine what would happen if Bob & Betty Bitchin’z friends came over and saw that they had a regular garage door, instead of a stainless steel one that matched their refrigerator?
And one with no leprechauns, either.
Oh, the humanity…
How do you have a garage door worth 4K +?
You make it look like a barn door.
Right, once you’ve shucked out that kind of money for a garage door “I” would never leave it open! Only for fleeting instances when absolutely necessary! Lord, you know the bubble ran amok when even garage doors became a status symbol.
Dang, Oly, that must have been some dinner party. How do we get on your guest list for the next one?
Well, shoots! All you gotta do it show up and shout, ‘Hey! It’s me!’ and all of us here that are handy will grab you up on our shoulders and do a victory lap through the forest to celebrate, leaving excited and impressed frogs in our wake and scaring the crap out of Bigfoot, unless he’s one of the ones doing the carrying.
Of course, you must show a willingness to draw leprechauns, and quaff homebrew, but I’m just going to go ahead and take that for granted.
The garage doors need to be hurricane proof. My sister installed one in her home on the intercoastal and it was $7,000
I just hope that “hurricane proof” in Florida proves to be a lot better thought out than “squirrel proof” in the mid west
hmmm
olygal just gave me some inspiration;
think I’ll hire some cheap but local artist to draw a virgin mary in chalk on my garage door around 2am, when most of my nosy retired neighbors have dozed off with blaring TV’s … then I’ll hose her off for a few moments, which will cause the chalk to run like mascara … which will draw a boat load of religious gawkers praying to the “crying virgin”.
hehe! That’ll drive up their blood pressure as I respond to the inevitable HOA summons with ” it’s an act of god & my right to religious freedom of expression “. heck, maybe the parade of zealots will leave CASH with the candles/incense/flowers ?!
thank you Olygal. our very own HBB muse. (you get the standard 6% cut)
Buy a shipping container, anchor it to the ground, and park your cars in the container.
I’ve owned a house in Florida, with hurricane proof garage doors. The hurricane proof part adds at most a couple hundred dollars. It basically consists of some extra 2×4’s bolted on, along with slightly stronger springs to handle the extra weight.
Certainly not worth $4k or $7k or whatever.
It goes up and down when I press the little button.
You mean it doesn’t swing out like the Simpson’s garage door?
garage doors in South Florida, along with doors and windows are not like Oregon and most of the rest of the U.S.
They must be designed to withstand 130-150MPH winds.
Any ‘architectural’ considerations are secondary here,
although 4500 bucks is very high, it may be a triple wide door, or something similar.
Does anyone remember last year’s Time2Buy campaign by realtors (complete with buttons)? I thought not…
Think again.
The Time2Buy campaign was developed here in Sarasota almost 2years ago. Hahaha, if you bought a 300k home back then you’d be about 60K-80K in the hole by now. Thanks to your friendly local realturds!
Yet the campaign persists on the real estate page of the SHT.
Look here, on the right side of the page:
http://www.heraldtribune.com/section/realestate
The Wreckage Of A Once-Booming Housing Market
=========================================
The $$ Edmund Fitzgerald
Ever get that sinking feeling?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqTLCbogM1I&feature=related
I remember that day quite well. The Fitz sank on my 18th birthday.
Was a freshman at the University of Michigan, and you know the gales of November that Gordon Lightfoot referred to in his song? Boy, were they blowing in Ann Arbor.
I remember sitting in the room of a dorm-mate from Hawaii. We looked out the window at the gray, gusty day outside and realized that the weather had changed from that lovely Michigan fall with all the multicolored trees to something quite different.
It was later when we heard about the tragedy with the ship up in Superior.
I’m surprised anyone would move to Florida with all the problems. Unless you have money of your own and don’t need to work it’s too difficult to get along on a day-to-day basis. Why move to a place that’s overcrowded, expensive, no jobs, low-paying jobs, etc. Does not make sense at all. What are these people thinking or do they think at all? I will only go there for a vacation on the beach.
Ease up G-Girl. Everybody wants to live in FL and all those everbodys are millionares. Get with the program!!!!
As much of a bear as I am on FL, I am one of those who moved here during the boom, and I must say, I am very happy I made the move. FL has incredible winter weather, decent summer weather (assuming your within 5 miles of the coast; otherwise, it’s like a 4 month slow death) is a ton of fun; has a very permissive culture, and is, generally, a really great place to be a young adult.
Now, for many/most of the people who live here, it seems to be (according to them mostly) a he** on earth, they can’t wait to get out. Mostly people with families, this isn’t the place for that; it’s not geared towards families, the schools suck, and most of the people I know in that situation are looking to leave. Seniors seem to hate it here as well, but that may be because they hate everything. S. FL is like NYC (minus the culture and high paying jobs), it’s a place people move, live for a good portion of their lives, and then leave.
I love it here and wouldn’t want to live anywhere else in this country currently. If I ever have kids; I will leave; and if I don’t have kids but wanted to retire, I probably would leave as well. But for me, at this point in my life, I couldn’t see a better place to live.
That does NOT, in any way, mean that I think home prices are sustainable, or that “1000 people a day move to FL”. I think we are losing more then gaining; and I don’t think we are going to get 1/4th the boomers we are expecting. We killed the “allure” of FL for them (laid back lifestyle, cheap living, calm cool sea breezes) and replaced it with Long Island south.
“We killed the “allure” of FL for them (laid back lifestyle, cheap living, calm cool sea breezes) and replaced it with Long Island south.”
Could not have said it better myself. My wife and I are a young married couple and this area works well for us. For others, perhaps not so much.
I spend some time in Florida with a job transfer for some corporation sin which I must have committed. I enjoyed the food, the people, work and the endless streams of relatives.
But after visiting Bush Gardens, Disneyworld and spending endless hours trying to locate a nice public beach, I got a little bored living in the endless Sun with all the old people trying to kill me with their cars.
Oh…and Florida wasn’t REALLY big on NIGHTIME downhill skiing in the snow mist at 10 below either
Yeah, that’s a big problem with FL, driving down here is death-defying. And I have to do a ton of driving for work. My car was about… Oh, 1 week old before it was hit for the first time on 95 (by a lady > 80 years old at 7:30AM, WTF are you doing on 95 during rush hour??).
Trust me, FL has it’s problems. I’m willing to put up with some of them, complain about others, and like some of the “problems” that other people get annoyed at. But, for me, it’s a great fit.
For the 80 year old lady? Not so much. And the family of 4 making the median income living in West Palm Beach? Ahhh.. Not at all!
Oh I forgot, 1,000 people a day are moving to Florida and real estate only goes up!
Don’t forget they’re not making any more land!
Up to 5,000 people move to Las Vegas every month and real estate only goes up. Buy now or be priced out forever!
Speaking of Florida and Hurricanes, I seem to recall that homeowners insurance policies would not be issued if there were hurricanes forecast. Does anyone have any elaboration on this policy and it’s likely effect now that we have what appears to be an unending stream of hurricanes forecast for the next few weeks and possibly longer? I wouldn’t think a tremendous amount of closings would be happening.
When we moved to Florida we were told you cannot buy a new property insurance policy whenever there’s a named tropical storm or hurricane in the Atlantic, Caribbean or Gulf. Also, with respect to flood insurance, I believe there’s a 90-day waiting period after you buy the policy before coverage goes into effect.
All this was intended to stop uninsured people from buying policies when they’re sure their area is about to get hit.
The tour required buyers to pay $25 to get preapproved for a loan.
Why would anyone pay a $25 fee to get preapproved when you can get it for free? Chalk this one up as a new scam to drain the consumer out of their money.
Short bus patrons aren’t so smart…
Comes with the territory~
Don’t be dissing that $25.
That would pay for a lot of booze.
You can buy 4-5 bottles of “liquor store wine” with that $25. Winos can tell you All bout it!
You can just buy a good bottle of vodka, and end up in the ER (*) with alcohol poisoning and/or having your stomach pumped. (**)
(*) Not that I would know this first-hand.
(**) Assuming, of course, you don’t “bow before the porcelain goddess” first.
Sounds like beer money for the real estate “professionals” on the bus tour.
Short people got no reason to
You dissin’ my people?
You gotta little car that goes “beep, beep, beep”? Then I guess he is
Slim’s not short,
she’s just not very tall,
that’s all
Insurance companies will allow the binding of insurance for a scheduled closing when a property is purchased even if their is a storm. This rule was changed some years ago when there was a string of hurricanes in the Atlantic similar to this year.
“‘When the housing boom was raging and the economy was being fed by construction, you had tremendously low unemployment and good economic growth,’ Snaith said. ‘When the housing market went bust, there was no safety net. Economic diversity is very, very important.’”
So you’re saying what, exactly? That borrowing business from the future was working great until the future happened?
sleepless,
Exactly. Too funny. Even if let’s say, the bust ‘didn’t’ happen. JUST for a minute, …and prices were somehow holding their own, well at some point “The Last Boomer” has bought their FL “manse” or whatever. Now WHAT!?
Now what are we supposed to do with ourselves? Where’s the growth engine now? Making coffins? I somehow mistakenly thought the majority of Americans understood that the saying “hitch your wagon to a star” was truly a fortunate event! Certainly not something every one of us has a shot at doing any time it suits us?
Maybe that’s what we really have here? A bloated glut of little red wagons all looking for a star to hook up to? It’s a WAGON bubble!
They better build a lot of coffins because their won’t be room on the coffin built for Queequeg when this RE garbage barge heads for the deep six with Moby Dick and the Capt’n
After reading the article, I just feel that I need more information on the topic. Can you suggest some more resources ?