September 3, 2008

Bits Bucket For September 3, 2008

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 05:26:11

Lehman is due for some liquid low-interest life support loan injections from the Fed, to shore up its balance sheet after gambling losses on commodities and California real estate speculation.

Futures drop as Lehman, fund fallout weigh
Wed Sep 3, 2008 12:46pm EDT

By Ellis Mnyandu

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stock index futures fell on Wednesday as news of the demise of a hedge fund partly owned by Lehman Brothers (LEH.N: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) rekindled worries about the outlook for the beleaguered financial services sector.

News that hedge fund manager Ospraie Management LLC will close its flagship fund after it plunged 27 percent in August due to losses in energy, mining and natural resources equity holdings damaged stocks in Europe where major averages slid 1 percent or more.

Shares of Lehman Brothers, which owns 20 percent of Ospraie, dropped nearly 3 percent to $15.71 before the bell.

Analysts said the hedge fund closure could complicate Lehman’s efforts to raise new capital as it seeks to bolster a balance sheet weakened by mortgage losses.

“The biggest drag on the market right now is the news involving Lehman,” said Arthur Hogan, chief market analyst at Jefferies & Co in Boston.

“The last thing Lehman needs while they are looking to raise new capital is to have skeletons like this falling out of the closet. There’s a clear possibility that this could impede the process of getting new investors in.”

Comment by SUGuy
2008-09-03 05:50:22

It just boggles my mind how Leman commits blunder after blunder. It goes to show that an idiot will run the company some day and most likely run it into the ground.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 06:08:14

Wouldn’t you be happy to speculate if you had a sugar daddy funding your bad gambles with bellow-market-interest loans and free bailout insurance?

Comment by James
2008-09-03 07:29:51

below….underneath
bellow… sound of Niel…blah ha ha ha…munch munch munch

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Comment by palmetto
2008-09-03 06:08:57

“It just boggles my mind how Leman commits blunder after blunder.”

It just boggles my mind that this seems to be an operating basis for a number of major companies these days. I am following the demise of Ebay with great interest. Truly fascinating the confusion that has taken hold of that company.

Look, the underlying value of any company is the product or service that it offers. No company can survive when its product or service sucks and when it screws its customers. I forget who posted the article about how Wall Street’s securitization model has failed miserably, but the truth is, shareholders are technically nothing more than owners of a company. You’d think shareholders would have an interest in corporations improving their product and caring for their customers. Well, they don’t, because they’re too detached. As a result, some dick of a Wall Street ANALyst gets his or her meathooks into the upper management of some company and starts telling them what to do.

I think the current fascist corporate model of business has also reached its limits.

BTW, note that Meg Whitman (former Ebay CEO) is heavily involved in the McPain campaign. That should make many uneasy, because McCain has said in the past that he wouldn’t mind seeing more control and censorship present on the Internet. I’m sure Whitman is advising him in this area.

Further, also note that part of the “housing bill” was the requirement that all credit card companies report transactions to the IRS. It is interesting that right after that, Ebay instituted a policy that ALL their transactions must go through PayPal (owned by Ebay), ProPay (more expensive than Preypal, but given as a choice so that Paypal can’t be seen as exclusive) or an individual merchant account. No checks or money orders, except for local transactions. Don’t think this wasn’t done on purpose.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 06:30:20

The powers that be, must rue the day the internet set the world free…

One of the many beautiful things about the internet, is the idea that one’s voice can carry only in 2 octaves, small case & LARGE CASE letters.

The large case letter format is actively discouraged, thank goodness.

It’s a very level playing field…

Too often most of my life, the opinion of the person that could talk the loudest, won out, verbal bullying.

All words speak on their own merit, now…

How much longer can we do whatever we want in cyberspace, without big brother throwing a spanner in the works?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 06:35:02

The internet, along with the freeway system, is one of the world’s most democratic institutions. I fully expect the PTB to do what they can to reign in this de facto guarantor of First Amendment rights.

 
Comment by packman
2008-09-03 07:02:57

Re: Freeway system - that’s slowly going away in lieu of toll highways with automated (read: trackable and controllable) toll systems. The same thing is happening on the internet.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-03 07:41:16

To a certain degree, they already have. I was reading that Comcast is looking to curtail certain users from taking up too much bandwith! Kind of like the incremental graduations of the power company?

From what Comcast claims it would only involve ‘hogs’ that download like 500 full length movies a month ( or at least that’s their claim ) However high they’ve set the ‘ceiling’ it’s a bad precedent.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-09-03 07:51:29

It’s also a bad precedent that grocery stores sell steak by the pound, that liquor stores sell scotch by the liter, and drug dealers sell weed by the ounce.

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 09:17:15

I thoughtcrimes had more in mind than mere measurements…

 
Comment by packman
2008-09-03 11:48:18

“It’s also a bad precedent that grocery stores sell steak by the pound, that liquor stores sell scotch by the liter, and drug dealers sell weed by the ounce.”

Two big differences:

- Steak, scotch, weed etc. are resources that are consumed when you use them, thus have direct per-use costs to the provider, thus it’s not feasible to not charge per use. This is not true for freeways or internet service, where the vast bulk of the cost is initial equipment which is shared by all, and extra use adds nothing to the cost, aside from contributing to congestion which may require later expansion costs (which are again shared by all).

- Steak, scotch, weed etc. are things that can be purchased and used easily without tracking its use, via cash. Pretty much all toll booths now have tracking mechanisms, as does internet usage.

Not that I’m advocating free internet for all or free highway use for all - just saying that the analogy doesn’t really fit.

Personally I’m in favor of allowing internet providers to charge extra for excessive use - as long as it can be guaranteed that no government tracking occurs without a warrant, and I’m in favor of toll roads - as long as it can be guaranteed that they can’t be used by the government for tracking travel/transportation without a warrant.

 
 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2008-09-03 06:34:05

“You’d think shareholders would have an interest in corporations improving their product and caring for their customers. Well, they don’t, because they’re too detached.”

This is the key observation. How could we try to fix this state of affairs? As I’ve said here before, my theory is that the root of the problem is corporation laws limiting shareholder liability. These laws create, on a massive scale, a highly artificial exception to common law doctrines which would normally hold all investors and partners accountable for actions of the business. The result is that shareholders take a “see no evil” approach and management has a strong incentive to take big gambles, ethics be damned.

If I’m right, it should be possible to show that general partnerships behave in a more responsible manner than limited partnerships and corporations.

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Comment by bluprint
2008-09-03 07:01:07

That may be part of it. Another factor is how government via primarily the SEC governs publicly traded companies to help ensure profits for stockholders. This transfers the costs of owning a business (making sure management is acting appropriately) from the owners to the taxpayers, while conveniently leaving profits for the owners. This policy provides and air of legitimacy around publicly traded corps (and the management of those corps) and allows the owners to further become disconnected.

 
Comment by palmetto
2008-09-03 07:21:51

I think shareholder responsibility is key. If you’re an owner, you’re responsible. Period. Shareholders should be held accountable for the actions of the companies in which they have a stake. This will promote education and prudence.

 
Comment by oxide
2008-09-03 08:29:12

Shareholder responsbility on an individual scale is practically impossible. I would have to keep track of the dozens of decisions made by the hundreds of companies in the 10-15 mutual funds in my 401K. Nobody has time for that, even with today’s computers and internet.

Maybe the only way to do it is to pay CEO’s nothing at all — just pay them in honor and legacy. It would suck for the CEO, but who cares, by that point, he’s probably rich anyway. But it would be better for the company than all the golden parachutes in the world.

 
Comment by Jon
2008-09-03 09:02:43

Here is a novel idea: How about government regulation. Back in the bad old days, people used to know that in a capitalist economy, corporations have no choice but to race to the bottom in terms of pay, ethics, environmental degradation, you name it. If they didn’t, their competitors would and they would go out of business.

So we had this thing called “Government Regulation”. The government would set a floor in terms of the competitive environment below which companies couldn’t sink. It wasn’t always perfect, but over all it actually worked.

 
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2008-09-03 09:20:58

Oxide, nobody’s forcing you to buy 10-15 mutual funds. You could invest in local businesses, get to know the managers, learn their operations. You know the old advice, if you don’t understand an investment, stay away?

Bluprint, to paraphrase what you’re saying, once the gov’t has granted this incredible boondoggle of limited liability, it has to regulate corp’s to limit abuses, which leads to the corp’s screaming about how gov’t is “interfering with the free market”, so then the gov’t has to grant them more kickbacks and benefits, and so on ad infinitum. As you say, this gives corp’s an “air of legitimacy” by effectively making them quasi-gov’t agencies.

More regulation only entrenches this system further, by making more work for lobbyists, lawyers, etc., while leaving intact the motivations and means for company executives to divert corporate assets for their own benefit.

Best solution: take away limited liability and allow companies to reorganize in a way that lets investors and workers collaborate.

 
Comment by yogurt
2008-09-03 10:34:53

You cannot have publicly traded businesses without limited liability. Nobody would become a shareholder of a business he did not have full operational control over.

Anyone wanting to invest in a publicly traded company would just invest overseas.

If you got rid of limited liability all major economic activity would be owned by a small group of rich people or the government, and the government would have to control capital flows.

The solution to corporate malpractice is to make the directors liable for the corporation’s debts. They are the people in charge.

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-09-03 11:23:52

More regulation only entrenches this system further

Bingo.

Here is a novel idea: How about government regulation.

Corporations are creations of the government. You don’t like it but ask for more of the same? You’re trying to control frankenstein. And there is nothing “free-market” or “capitalist” about corporations. They are a semi-fascist enterprise at best.

I would have to keep track of the dozens of decisions made by the hundreds of companies in the 10-15 mutual funds in my 401K. Nobody has time for that, even with today’s computers and internet.

You don’t want to run your company(s)? Fine. It’s your money. But to put the burden of responsibility on the taxpayer is outright theft.

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-09-03 11:28:00

If you got rid of limited liability all major economic activity would be owned by a small group of rich people or the government, and the government would have to control capital flows.

Care to back any of that up? There are thousands of years of human history and innovation in which the modern corporation did not exist to contradict your claims.

The solution to corporate malpractice is to make the directors liable for the corporation’s debts. They are the people in charge.

Yeah, shareholders should get profit or nothing at all. And who the hell would volunteer to be a director?

 
 
Comment by reuven avram
2008-09-03 07:15:27

I used to use Ebay to get rid of obsolete equipment. (My consulting firm does a lot of “equipment selection” for the photo industry so every quarter I always had a pile of cameras, scanners, printers to get rid of.)

One problem with eBay is its so overrun with scammers that ordinary people stay away. I’d never recommend eBay to anyone but the most savvy of people! For buying and selling obsolete electronic equipment it’s OK, because there’s a legit reason to buy and sell that stuff, and the costs are relatively low.

But the scams are outrageous! For example, there’s a never ending supply of counterfeit rare pennies (1909 S VDB) for sale there. I guess it’s not too hard to make them in China. Also, I’d guess that 80% of the name-brand clothing for sale there is counterfeit, etc.

It’s become something that the general public really can’t use because of the danger

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Comment by palmetto
2008-09-03 07:37:53

Good observations, reuven. I was a seller on ebay for a long time, but got out when I saw the handwriting on the wall. I was also a buyer, very happy with the computer I purchased on ebay and very happy with the customer service I received from the seller.

There were many, many legitimate sellers on ebay, but ebay’s downfall was that they never really did anything about the hordes of scammers that descended on the site except for a weak, piecemeal approach. When the problem became overwhelming, they went into panic mode and accused ALL their sellers of being potential scammers, thus the one-way feedback and Paypal policies. I don’t know about you, but I’m not going to be painted with the same brush as some scammer. This swing of the pendulum in the opposite direction has now left ebay sellers open to unscrupulous buyers. I’ve heard a number of stories now from personal friends, not just on the blogs. It is not uncommon for some buyers to make a purchase on ebay through Paypal, then file a claim that the product is not as described, return a bogus box to the seller, keep the product AND get a Paypal refund. And there’s NOTHING the seller can do about it.

Another common scheme is for the buyer to bid or buy high, then attempt to negotiate a reduction after the fact. And nothing the seller can do about it. Ebay has encouraged this state of affairs with gusto. I had one fellow tell me he gets all tense every time he makes a sale on ebay, because he doesn’t know if he’ll get paid or if the buyer will leave him a negative out of spite, etc.

I don’t know why sellers stay there. Going on hoping for a return of the glory days, I guess. But it is kind of sick to pay a company to abuse you.

It’s not a viable marketplace anymore, IMHO. I wouldn’t touch it now with a ten foot credit card.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-09-03 07:55:27

I don’t know why sellers stay there. Going on hoping for a return of the glory days, I guess. But it is kind of sick to pay a company to abuse you.

It’s not a viable marketplace anymore, IMHO. I wouldn’t touch it now with a ten foot credit card.

The sellers I know have complained about the same things you and Reuven mention, and now use eBay only as a marketplace of last resort. It seems like at least in niche markets (audio equipment, collectibles, decorative arts, etc.) sellers are looking for and building alternate avenues for commerce as eBay becomes increasingly unpalatable.

 
Comment by cactus
2008-09-03 08:55:24

I’m about done with Ebay , all transactions through paypal no checks or money orders…… Charge backs which paypal allows no problem…… I’m about done.

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 09:10:05

I probably did 40,000 separate transactions selling on eBay, from 1998 to 2005…

My clientelle was about 85% non-big city America, folks in little towns that suddenly had the same access to plenty, as anybody else.

I think the thrill is gone.

 
 
Comment by Skip
2008-09-03 08:36:27

I believe you are mistaken and that checks/MOs can still be used, but the seller must have Paypal as an option.

The CC transaction tracking is merely the IRS trying to get a handle on offshore bank accounts that have not been reported and taxed. Some dubious peoples and large corporations use CCs from these banks and use those offshore accounts to pay the bill.

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Comment by palmetto
2008-09-03 09:16:22

“I believe you are mistaken and that checks/MOs can still be used, but the seller must have Paypal as an option.”

I wish I was mistaken, but I’m not. Paypal, Propay or credit cards through a merchant account only, except for local, face to face transactions where the buyer will pick up and pay by check or cash.

 
Comment by cactus
2008-09-03 09:45:54

“Mature Audiences ” yea I guess you can still pay cash for this. But no Ebay is doing away with the checks cash and money orders read for yourself.

Faster, more secure checkout experience

Paper payments end this October

Beginning late October 2008, all items listed on eBay.com must be paid for using one of the following approved payment options:
Direct credit or debit card payment via a merchant credit card account
PayPal
ProPay
Payment on pick-up
Paper payment methods such as checks and money orders will no longer be accepted on eBay.com.

By January 2009, all approved electronic payment methods will be integrated into eBay checkout. For example, buyers will be able to enter their credit card number directly into eBay checkout, and the payment will be routed to the seller’s Internet merchant account or to their PayPal account.

Please note that the new payments policy will not apply to the vehicles categories in Motors, capital equipment categories in Business & Industrial, Mature Audiences and Real Estate.

 
Comment by polly
2008-09-03 10:52:38

Skip,

I think you are wrong about the primary target of the credit card reporting. It is supposed to be agregated by the person who receives the payment, which means it can be used to catch small businesses that vastly under report their gross receipts. If a small business says that it received $400K of receipts for the year, but Mastercard, Visa and Amex say that logged aggregate payments to that business of $600K there is a very good chance the business is cheating on its taxes. Not 100% guarantee, but a very good chance.

FINCEN regs on off shore accounts may also be part of it, but since so many people use their plastic even for very small transactions, the ability to track payments to businesses is the most likely target.

 
Comment by Skip
2008-09-03 11:27:46

Mature - LOL.

Well, I guess its no eBay for me as I fubared my password and after 10 calls/emails/faxes they refused to reset my password and give me the $14 in the account.

Polly - when you have a merchant account, Visa/MC wire the money to a bank account. As long as it is a US bank, the IRS has no problems getting your bank statement to show how much money is coming into your account from Visa/MC.

 
Comment by polly
2008-09-03 11:57:06

But with the new rule they don’t have to go get it. That requires employees figuring out whose accounts they should ask for, which CC companies to contact, etc. This way they just get the info, submitted electronically, just like a normal person who gets a w-2 or a bunch of 1099’s. The matching can be done automatically off the total receipts line of the 1120 or schedule C. Old version - they have to do the leg work first. New version - the computer tells them who the most obvious audit target is.

The Service must have been looking for a way to approximate the automatic matching of actual income and reported income for small retailers/service businesses for years. Americans using a credit card to buy a $3.17 greeting card from a mom and pop stationary store and almost any other transaction with a small business finally let them do it.

 
 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-03 07:06:10

SUGuy
Do you remember if Lehman is one of the IBs underwriting the Carousel Mall expansion? I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

A WT Economist post, perhaps?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-03 07:18:23

Whaddaya mean, ’some day’ and ‘most likely’? Don’t you mean ‘now’ and ‘did’?

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 05:50:25

When one deals with pirates, skeletons come with the territory…
=======================================

“The last thing Lehman needs while they are looking to raise new capital is to have skeletons like this falling out of the closet. There’s a clear possibility that this could impede the process of getting new investors in.”

Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-09-03 07:05:16

If they wanted to, CBS could trot out reruns of RED SKELTON, ha, ha, get it?

 
Comment by mikey
2008-09-03 08:16:32

The Financial Mess that the US is in has a lot to due with the garbage products and the “investor class mentality” that was peddled to the minions. Let’s gamble our way to Wealth, the Big Guys are doing it.

The sheeple of the ownership society were encouraged and enabled to gamble on everything from houses to the speculative hedge funds and financials on wall street.

There was no incentive to save at 1-2% bush/greenspan rates and work for a living when flipping and investing was promoted by MSM and the White House as the fast track to independance and wealth.

Using OMP and leverage were the buzzwords and way of life because the deep pockets of the Fed and the US Taxpayer suppousedly stood quietly in the background. Damn the RIsks, we CAN’T loose, Full Speed Ahead.

Now, virtually everything has been contaminated from Main Street to Wall Street with these CRAP so called “Products”. Even the FDIC, is in panic mode is running TV ads saying all is well with your $100k of 0’s and 1’s down at your local bank. .

Well, maybe it was never REAL money and wealth in this paperless computer society but billions of other peoples money in 0’s and 1’s are going to be DISAPPEARING…real FAST.

Talk about an Enron Accounting style and a Blue screen of Financial Death on a Monsterous Scale…click…click…Poof!!!
:)

 
 
Comment by polly
2008-09-03 06:14:09

Why is th is the biggest drag on the market right now? Why isn’t it the fact that Europe has admitted they are in a recession and going deeper which means that the last light in the US economy (exports) is about to fade dramatically?

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 06:20:03

‘Decoupling’ is headed for the dustbin of failed Wall Street investment theories.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 06:33:43

The world is $pooning, lazy fvcks.

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Comment by hoz
2008-09-03 06:26:20

Polly

Every investment manager in the world has known Europe is toast for the last year. However the damage in the financial system continues to worsen. Lehman needs $5B by month end. If they go to the bond market, they will be paying around 13%. Not very palatable, nor supportable by lack of earnings. Korea is not a buyer (against US securities laws), perhaps as a lender with a US subsidiary buying. The problems with Lehman are problems in the industry. There are $200B in bonds that need to be refi’d by year end. No rollover, no companies.

Comment by combotechie
2008-09-03 06:43:20

Ah, yes, cash is indeed the king.

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Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-09-03 07:08:01

Usually the Queen bee controllin the $$$

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 06:53:30

This may be a dumb question, but why can’t they go to the discount window for the money?

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Comment by hoz
2008-09-03 07:59:56

The Federal Reserve can legally give moneys to ANYBODY.

To date from August of 2007, the Treasury dept has loaned out through its agencies $1.43T or so. The Federal Reserve, the Federal Home Loan Banks, the Federal Housing Administration and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The Federal Reserve has loaned out $446B. The Federal Home Loan Bank $274B, The Federal Housing Administration a picayune $90B and the balance to Freddie and Fannie.

Yes they can loan out moneys to Lehman against securities, but that does not pay Lehman’s bills.

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 10:06:42

thanks hoz, i understand it better now. in other words there “toast” without back-up investors for their needs.

 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 06:56:51

How is Europe toast? They have a more manufacturing-based economy than we do and I expect them to recover more quickly than us. I doubt their economy is as ‘toasty’ as ours.

Did you mean their financial system is toast? They have followed our lead and bought our junk, so yes, they have serious problems there.

Of course the Euro is toast; there is no safe fiat currency.

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Comment by hoz
2008-09-03 12:43:48

Watcher

Europe is in far worse shape than the US. Not just the financial system but every aspect of the society.

The Euro nations debt structure is a recipe for guaranteed failure. For a microcosm of European problems

“The International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned Swedish banks that the global credit crisis means increased risks for Swedish banks investing in the Baltic area.

In their country report on Sweden, the IMF pinpointed Swedbank and SEB banks as two banks with extensive investments in the Baltic area.

The banks are active in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania where economic growth has slammed to a sudden halt and where rising inflation is a fact….”

“…Over the forcast period Latvia looks to be borrowing nearly a year’s GDP! That is in a country which is clearly in some economic difficulty right now!…”

Swedbank is the lender to Latvia, Estonia and Lithuania these countries are running close to 25% Current Account deficits.

All of Eastern Europe is just as bad. Unfortunately for the ECB, the member nations have given it the ability to only fight inflation. The ECB has no taxing authority, no way to support the Euro. The Euro money supply growth over the last year has been 17%. This is throwing in the towel on inflation. Interest rate is immaterial if you can get moneys. Euro currency is being passed out.

Next step which country bails on the Euro first. I think France, but a good chance is Italy. Currently Italian issued Euros are not as desirable as German issued Euros. No sovereign nation is going to let its people go down the tubes to support a pan European currency.

Europe is the last place to invest a dime for the next 5 years. The risk is to great.

 
Comment by Sagesse
2008-09-03 17:22:33

“No sovereign nation is going to let its people go down the tubes to support a pan European currency.”
But they have already, when they introduced it. Prices double, incomes the same, all in one day.

 
Comment by vozworth
2008-09-03 20:06:06

mctoast…

lovin the Euro crumble, I prey Italy goes first… I have not gone to Italy since the Euro introduction…

and Ill never go again without the Lira.

arrivederci.

 
Comment by Eric from Canada
2008-09-03 21:01:11

Hoz and Sagesse,
The Euro has increased trade among the countries which have adopted it tremendously. It will not be dumped by any of
them because no matter what the problems are with having it as a currency, they are far outweighed by the benefits. To get a perspective on this, picture Texas ( which has the right to pull out of the Union), pulling out of the American dollar zone and creating the “Texallar”. How much more difficult would it instantly become for the rest of the US to do business with them? And the rest of the world? Same goes for every European country which has boarded the Euro bandwagon and has tasted the prosperity which has resulted. A common currency is not perfect but it is better than a hodge-podge of regional ones.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 06:25:44

HSBC, China bank said to be latest Lehman suitors
Investment bank’s shares rose Tuesday after Korea bank confirmed deal talk

By MarketWatch
Last update: 5:25 a.m. EDT Sept. 3, 2008

NEW YORK (MarketWatch) - HSBC Holdings and a Chinese bank are among the potential bidders for the Wall Street investment bank Lehman Brothers, the South Korean daily Chosun Ilbo reported Wednesday.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 06:40:43

Check out the comments below this story. Seems lots of folks don’t buy into all these Asian suitor rumors. Why would any Asian bank want to acquire Lehman unless they could pick it up at fire sale prices?

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 06:44:11

Numbers dripping in red ink look just the same in Shanghai as they do on Wall Street.

They’ve gone to the Buffett rumor mill far to often, so they have to mix things up by talking about new false suitors…

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 09:10:32

Not so. If the Asians became convinced that Uncle Buck’s rally was going to continue indefinitely, they would have added incentive to purchase U.S. investment bank assets at fire sale prices, compared to U.S. investors.

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 09:19:55

Uncle Buck is a Fedophile that got caught messing with underaged loans…

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-03 09:46:10

Red is a Lucky Color for Chinese.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2008-09-03 10:21:07

More specifically, it signifies wealth.

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 10:52:29

Being in the Black is considered a lucky color, in the U.S. of A.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2008-09-03 12:46:44

Nice dig. LOL.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 09:06:22

Recommended reading for Wall Street investment bankers interested in gambling on California real estate (available used and new from $3.99 on Amazon.com):

All Real Estate Is Local: What You Need to Know to Profit in Real Estate - in a Buyer’s and a Seller’s Market (Hardcover)
by David Lereah (Author)

Unless an investor truly understands a local market, I suggest they refrain from gambling on speculative purchases. Otherwise they might find themselves holding on to falling knives that they eventually have to sell at fire sale prices.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-09-03 09:45:10

Would the book be considered a speculative purchase? :)

 
Comment by scdave
2008-09-03 10:01:50

Unless an investor truly understands a local market ??

100% right on the money advice…..Problem is it got thrown out the window over the last 5 years all due to the ownership Society and the free money that was handed out to anyone that could fog a mirror…That was then followed by what you would think was more astute investors that build commercial when they see a lot of roof tops…They were just as guilty…Those roof tops were all a mirage and now they are stuck with vacant buildings and almost worthless land entitlements…

 
 
 
Comment by SDGreg
2008-09-03 05:27:54

Simon Jenkins in the UK Guardian:

http://tinyurl.com/6hndbo

“At last, a glimmer of sanity. Faced with what is said to be the greatest collapse in the housing market of modern times, the government has decided to do virtually nothing. Excellent.”

“As a general rule it is patent that falling house prices are good news for the poor. Only politicians and headline writers think otherwise. Each fall brings home ownership within reach of more people who could never have afforded it when prices were inflated by hysteria about “the right to home ownership”.”

“No one but speculators and land-bankers had an interest in the bubble, and many of them now are getting their fingers well and truly burned.”

Comment by palmetto
2008-09-03 05:51:50

“Faced with what is said to be the greatest collapse in the housing market of modern times, the government has decided to do virtually nothing. Excellent.”

MOST excellent. It should only happen here. Nothing. No attempts to float useless hedge funds, investment bankers, inflated real estate. None.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-03 07:15:52

“No one but speculators and land-bankers had an interest in the bubble, and many of them now are getting their fingers well and truly burned.”

He forgot about the serial HELOCers.

 
Comment by yogurt
2008-09-03 10:44:32

Note also that the Guardian is a left-wing paper. But Jenkins can see that the best thing the government can do for low-income people is just to let housing get cheaper so they can afford it.

Sometimes the real left-wing option is for the government to stay out of the way and let the fat cats take their lumps.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 05:59:22

War was declared today, 69 years ago…

We are on the verge of another war today, but not a shooting war, a war concerning matters of a financial nature.

Economic Hegemoney is up for grabs.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 06:06:41

Economic Hedgefundmoney
is also up for grabs…

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 06:03:31

Now it becomes clear that what the financial press refers to as “commercial real estate” may really amount to no more than speculative gambles on residential housing, as it turns out that Lehman’s “ideal marriage” to a California land developer was more of an “ideal mirage.” Maybe the Korea Development Bank will come and rescue them before price discovery runs its full course of destruction.

Are California real estate prices propped up on a temporarily high plateau by the Fed’s myriad below-market-interest life support loan programs to Wall Street investment banks? The loans, including an implicit below-market-interest subsidy, courtesy of Uncle Sam, may serve to temporarily forestall gambling losses on massive speculative investments by said investment banks in California land and real estate investments. Too bad for Megabank, Inc that Mr Market has already sunk the value of California residential by 40 percent over the past year.

We will have to wait for the peak of prime and Alt-A resets circa 2010 to test the theory that values along the coast will hold up better than the rest of the state. Recent news that the Case-Shiller/S&P Index levels for San Francisco, LA and SD were all off by 25 pct or so over the most recent year is not an encouraging sign for those who subscribe to this idea.

Lehman’s Bet on a California Developer
Yields a Lesson on Downside of a Boom

By MICHAEL CORKERY and SUSANNE CRAIG
September 3, 2008; Page C1

When the housing market was booming, Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s bankrolling of a California land developer looked like the ideal marriage. Now, though, the mix of easy money and land speculation helps show why Lehman is scrambling to pare back its $40 billion commercial real-estate portfolio.

Lehman bet on the California real-estate market through its financing of SunCal Cos., a closely held developer that buys land, prepares it for houses and sells it to home builders. Flush with cash from Lehman and other Wall Street firms, SunCal acquired thousands of acres stretching from the desert to the Pacific Coast.

Some of that land now sits vacant in the state’s hardest-hit areas — and could have little value. Following this year’s sharp rise in gas prices and spike in foreclosures, some of SunCal’s remote projects may remain fallow for many years. However, Lehman says most of its remaining SunCal exposure is located along the Pacific Coast, where values have held up relatively well. ;-) ;-) ;-)

Lehman made many of its real-estate investments using funds it raised from others, selling much of its debt to other investors. But the investment bank ended up keeping $2.2 billion in exposure to SunCal on its books. The firm already has written down the value to $1.6 billion — and could face further write-downs if home prices and land values keep sinking.

Lehman has received a letter of intent from a buyer to acquire a 16-acre parcel near Long Beach, Calif., according to a person familiar with the matter. And with Lehman trying to shore up its balance sheet ahead of fiscal third-quarter results due later this month, there are reasons for Lehman to be a motivated seller.

Right now they have assets out for cherry-picking,” says William Shopoff, who heads Shopoff Group, an Irvine, Calif., land investment firm that is looking to buy some SunCal-Lehman properties.

Besides the deal it is working on to offload much of its $40 billion in commercial real-estate assets by spinning them off into a separate entity, Lehman is continuing to consider other capital-raising options. On Tuesday, Korea Development Bank confirmed speculation that it is negotiating to invest in Lehman.

Lehman says 70% of what remains of its SunCal investment on its books is in seven projects, located mostly along the coast, where values haven’t fallen nearly as dramatically as in the inland areas. Ya already said that! ;-) ;-) ;-) But if these values fall further, Lehman may have to record more write-downs, something it is loath to do.

Lehman could also face pressure to sell its choicest assets because the properties are accumulating taxes and other expenses, while throwing off little or no income. There also are about $50 million in liens on the SunCal projects that Lehman is working to pay off.

Some of Lehman’s nearly two dozen SunCal projects are in far-flung exurbs, including $250 million in the Inland Empire, one of the nation’s hardest-hit housing markets. On average, Lehman has valued its inland lots each at $29,500 based on comparable land sales. But land values remain highly uncertain.

Tom Reimers, executive vice president at O’Donnell/Atkins, an Irvine real-estate advisory firm that brokered many deals for SunCal in recent years, says “with the declines we’ve seen in the residential development marketplace of 50% to 75%, some of their lots may be overvalued.”

Lehman is one of many Wall Street firms and investors enticed by visions of land riches.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 06:15:22

San Diego is on the coast or near by, and they aren’t immune to plunging prices, are they?

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-09-03 06:15:26

“Right now they have assets out for cherry-picking.”

Bring on the knifecatchers, especially those with lots of money.

 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-09-03 06:56:48

“Now it becomes clear that what the financial press refers to as ‘commercial real estate’ may really amount to no more than speculative gambles on residential housing.”

Exactly. This time actual commercial real estate (leased to businesses, not households) will not be taking as big a fall as in the early 1990s. Residential developers, on the other hand, are getting crushed to the greatest extent in history.

Comment by scdave
2008-09-03 10:13:02

I agree W T as long as you qualify its location…Commercial real estate not supported by strong local business generators are in big trouble…There has been just as much over building of commercial in these secoundary markets as residential.

 
 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 06:33:28

Does anyone know why the august car and truck sales report keeps being delayed?

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-09-03 06:45:58

Dunno, but…

http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/080903/gm_employeepricing.html

I’m not sure about the rest of you, but given the chance, I would have bet serious money on this bit of news becoming a certainty.

Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-03 08:57:48

Not surprising at all. The dealers lots are still packed with trucks and SUVs.

Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-03 09:51:06

Every dealership I have driven by has truckloads of cars waiting to be offloaded onto Full sales parking lots.

Every time I see this in the last 3 weeks, I am thinking…
oopsy troubles ahead.
Nothing moving.

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Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-03 09:52:13

oops.

saw vs see.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Brian in Chicago
2008-09-03 07:12:14

Good question. I had almost forgot about them. I just went and looked at the dates for the release of July numbers and they were all posted on Friday, August 1. The equivalent day for August numbers should have been Tuesday, September 2. But perhaps the long weekend complicated things. If they aren’t out by the end of today, I would suspect something unusual is happening.

Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 08:07:39

“I would suspect something unusual is happening.”

thats what i was thinking, i figured their looking for a new way to fudge the numbers like they do the CPI report.

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 09:06:24

the ADP enployment report was also delayed until tomarrow. they changed what the market expects from -19k to -30k. (see link below)

http://biz.yahoo.com/c/e.html

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 09:29:49

Here is some news to cheer the Wall Street bulls. Everyone knows by now that the stock market always rallies on bad news.

September 3, 2008 12:28 P.M.ET
BULLETIN
FORD U.S. SALES DOWN NEARLY 27% IN AUGUST

Uneasy footing on Wall St.

Retail and auto sales join economic data and commodities prices as trader focuses, while financial stocks continue to command attention.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 11:36:15

September 3, 2008 2:34 P.M.ET
BULLETIN
Aug.’s multi-carmaker pileup

Ford says U.S. sales retreated nearly 27% in August, and it’s cutting its production plans, setting the pace for an automotive industry that’s now decisively in reverse gear.
• Ford’s worst month since WWII (24/7 Wall St.)
• GM extends ‘employee pricing’ promotion
• GM sales fall 20% | Honda sales skid 7% | VW revs up | Toyota slips

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 06:39:01

I sure hope the PPT is on high alert today, as it is starting out to be a bloody numbers kind of day on Wall Street.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-03 06:42:51

http://hbrofcny.com/parade.html

Wow! Three ranches in the CNY Parade of Homes. For the past several years every single model, I believe, has been a Transitional or Colonial McMansion. The 2 story models look much smaller too.
Times, they are a-changin’.

I heard some local grumbles about last years Parade not going so well.

I might have to go check out sq footage and price.

Comment by oxide
2008-09-03 08:49:37

They’re all 2400 sq ft and cost $275K. Ranches are 2100 sq ft and cost $245K. I just pulled that out of my posterior, but it’s probably not far off. It sounds low, but not for that area.

Meanwhile, at my local State Fair, a pre-fab company showed a 4/2 model house. They put the money into important things like decent appliances and windows and foundation, but skimped on cosmetics. The decor was laminate countertops, all carpet no hardwood, and the decor had a Lawrence Welk feel to it. But hey, it wasn’t bad for $90K. Add $60K for a small lot and utilities, and it’s a servicabe home. I’d take that over a tan McStucco any day.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-03 09:35:39

http://cnyhomes.com/Listing/Search/info.cgi?mlnum=193685

Well, here’s a year old version of one of the Harrison Homes:

$359,900
1750 sq ft
60 x 110 ft lot

It might be a bit higher than other locations. 20 miles out of Syracuse, it’s located in the lovely town of Cazenovia. I hear everyone wants to live there. ;)

 
Comment by Brian
2008-09-03 13:03:36

Riverside county, CA charges $30k for just the permits on placing a manufactured home. Add another $10k for an FHA foundation, then add the cost of the lot. Riverside= greedy b*stards.

 
 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 06:46:04

The ponzi finance economy will not go quietly into the night.

“The American way of life is non-negotiable”. - Dick Cheney

Comment by vozworth
2008-09-03 07:04:33

money grows where capital flows.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-03 09:01:09

“Americans do not have a God given right to a job” - Carly Fiorina

So what is it, GOP? The way Carly says it, it sure sounds negotiable to me.

Or maybe Cheney meant: “The middle class is going to get clobbered, and that is not negotiable”

 
 
Comment by hoz
2008-09-03 06:53:28

BOOKS

Business Bookshelf
Foreclosed But Not Forgotten
By JAMES R. HAGERTY
September 3, 2008; Page A21

The Subprime Solution
By Robert J. Shiller
(Princeton University Press, 196 pages, $16.95)
[Business Bookshelf]

In recent times, investment bankers have used “financial engineering” to design ever more complicated ways to manage risk. Such efforts, though, helped to bring about the current mortgage-default debacle: Bankers, overestimating the powers of their own sorcery, deluded money managers into thinking that there were safe ways to invest in subprime home loans, even the ones granted to flagrant deadbeats at the peak of a housing bubble.

With “The Subprime Solution,” Robert J. Shiller offers his formula to protect us from repeating such disasters: more financial engineering. It would be easy to sneer at this idea, but Mr. Shiller, an economics professor at Yale University, always deserves a hearing. He was among the first well-known economists to predict that the U.S. housing boom would end with crashing prices rather than with the more or less soft landing promised by Realtors, home builders, mortgage bankers and Wall Street financial engineers. Some say that Mr. Shiller’s jeremiads were premature, but investors and builders would be better off today if they had listened to him.

Mr. Shiller also helped create the S&P/Case-Shiller home-price indexes, among the most closely watched gauges of changes in housing costs. Many Realtors now claim that these indexes exaggerate the rate at which prices are dropping. Curiously, the same Realtors did not warn us against exaggeration in the first half of this decade, when the Case-Shiller indexes were soaring.

In what he describes as a “brief manifesto,” Mr. Shiller argues that bailouts of distressed borrowers are inevitable to avoid wrecking our economy and shredding our social fabric — even though bailouts may punish the prudent (say, through higher taxes) while comforting those who gambled on real estate and lost. “Much as we might like to,” Mr. Shiller writes, “we cannot quickly and reliably sort out who is at fault and who is not.”

He joins others in calling for a new federal agency modeled on the Home Owners’ Loan Corp., created in 1933 to refinance mortgages and keep people in their homes. One of the best things about this agency was that it was designed to be temporary and, when it was wound down in 1951, managed to return a small surplus to the Treasury, as Alex Pollock, of the American Enterprise Institute, pointed out in an essay last year.

Looking beyond immediate fixes, Mr. Shiller expresses immense faith in the potential for financial technology to “stress-proof the whole economy.” Here he is partly talking his own book: He is a founder of a company that creates risk-management tools, such as futures contracts tied to home prices. Such contracts haven’t yet attracted much trading, but Mr. Shiller hopes that they will develop into a means of hedging against real-estate busts. If people could use futures to sell the housing market short — that is, to bet that prices will fall — bubbles would be less likely, he believes. This claim is debatable: Investors can sell stocks short, but that did not prevent the tech-stock bubble of the 1990s.

Mr. Shiller also calls for new types of insurance to protect people from the risks of falling home prices or from a long-term loss of income resulting from economic changes that render certain jobs obsolete or less lucrative. (But who would pay for this insurance and how much would it cost?) Among his many other ideas, Mr. Shiller wants government subsidies — perhaps in the form of tax credits — so that ordinary people can afford unbiased financial advice. As things now stand, home buyers rely too heavily on the advice of real-estate agents, mortgage brokers and others whose interests are often at odds with their own.

Americans make poor financial choices, Mr. Shiller argues, in part because they don’t take inflation into account. That oversight leads them into the error of believing that houses have been a great long-term investment. His answer is to supplement the consumer price index with a new unit of measurement based on the value of a “basket” of common goods and services. Buyers and owners could then use these baskets to get a better grip on how much things really cost once inflation is stripped out.

My favorite proposal is Mr. Shiller’s call for the creation of a standard, consumer-friendly home- mortgage contract, leaving out the booby traps that ensnared people during the boom (e.g., penalties for paying off a mortgage early). This standard contract could be the choice for people who lack the time or ability to read hundreds of pages of fine print. Mortgage bankers might howl that such an approach would inhibit innovation. But consumers could always choose a nonstandard contract if they could be persuaded that lenders weren’t out to gouge them. The rest of us could play it safe.

Mr. Hagerty writes about housing and mortgages for The Wall Street Journal.
WSJ book review

“Americans make poor financial choices, Mr. Shiller argues, in part because they don’t take inflation into account.”

I would opine that Americans make poor financial decisions as a result of living in a bubble economy for 30 years.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-09-03 14:27:06

And you still think prices are only going back to 1994, you optimist, you! ;-)

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-09-03 17:41:19

The most shocking part of this information to me, was the idea of a temporary government operation that ever actually “wound down”. The 1950s was the Golden Age.

 
Comment by vozworth
2008-09-03 18:33:26

what inflation?

Are we not in record setting territories of deflation? The unwinding of credit of this magnitude is beyond any mortal comprehension. This unwind is difficult in the face of the greatest commodities boom, since when?

Im finding it very, very difficult to maintain any sort of alpha (positive movements) on movements of moneys.

30 year bubble….hmmm. sure its not a 60 year bubble? Everybody seems to be short, where is the panic, where’s the outrage, where’s the fvcking money going?

 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-09-03 06:54:21

A thousand people a day? Which way?!

School enrollments estimated to be down compared to start of last school year. 1500 in Sarasota County, 400 in Manatee County, 100 in Charlotte County.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080903/ARTICLE/809030368/2055/NEWS&title=Student_counts_come_up_short

Comment by bluprint
2008-09-03 07:32:29

School enrollment in the university I started working at in March is down for the school year starting recently compared to last year. I don’t know enough to know if the dip is significant.

2007 - 120,670
2008 - 118,573

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 06:59:27

I stomached about an hour of elephantiasis last night, the thickening of their lies was all too apparent, and it appears their leader is now a lame-duck-leper.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-09-03 07:16:44

I watched a little, too, and what I noticed was the last thing they want to talk about is the economy. It’s apparently a forbidden subject.

Comment by exeter
2008-09-03 07:36:18

All communications are routed through their masters at the RNC/K Street crime syndicate. You will never hear an opinion or assertion of their own.

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-09-03 07:38:22

Don’t the conventions schedule topics daily? Like Monday might be “talk about economy” night, and tuesday “talk about terrorism” night, etc. I think I remember that the Dems did it that way, so you only heard talk about a particular subject on one night.

Maybe not. The conventions are a giant circle jerk anyway. I don’t watch them unless it’s something specific I’m looking to see. Like I wanted to see Hilary speak (could only stomach about half her speech) out of curiosity about what she would do/say.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-09-03 08:23:58

I think they have off-camera conferences and roundtables organized around specific topics, but convention speeches tend to be generalized scattershot affairs, even if the speaker has a vague “theme.” And it’s all micro-managed, of course.

The conventions are a giant circle jerk anyway.

True enough. I have a higher tolerance for political baseball than most, and I can only take half-an-hour at a time of either party’s convention.

PS: Don’t know if anyone caught the video tribute to Bush The Elder last night, but the voiceover guy sounded suspiciously like infomercial personality Troy McClure.

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Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-03 09:28:57

Dang, my bad for not following this one closer!

LA Times

Ron Paul holds counter-convention

His ‘Rally for the Republic’ draws as many as 12,000 disillusioned Republicans and independents, organizers say.
By James Hohmann, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
September 3, 2008
MINNEAPOLIS — Ron Paul has no plan to set foot in the Republican convention next door in St. Paul. If he were to try, he said, party officials have told him that he would have to be chaperoned. So the 10-term congressman and presidential candidate held his own party, a nine-hour “Rally for the Republic” that amounted to a one-day counter-convention.

As many as 12,000 disillusioned Republicans and independents, according to organizers, converged on the Target Center, an NBA basketball arena, for a boisterous push-back against the Republican establishment…

(cont’d)
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-ronpaul3-2008sep03,0,5526968.story

Leigh

 
 
Comment by Skip
2008-09-03 08:46:32

Yes, all of the conventions have themes for each night and all of the speakers are told the subject that they will speak on in advance. Everything is planned.

Republican Convention themes:

Monday, Sept. 1 - Service
Tuesday, Sept. 2 - Reform
Wednesday, Sept. 3 - Prosperity
Thursday, Sept. 4 - Peace

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Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 09:23:30

It takes a Potemkin Village…

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-03 09:40:48

“Wednesday, Sept. 3 - Prosperity”

Gee, I think they’re going to have to go to the national anthem and then the blank screen.

Either that or fill the time w/woulda, shoulda, coulda.

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 11:17:19

Apparently there were plenty of empty seats under the 3-ring circus, because if you’ve seen one elephant take a dump, you’ve seen em’ all…

http://wonkette.com/402478/good-luck-finding-a-seat-liberal

 
 
 
 
Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-09-03 07:21:00

It must suck big time to be a California Democrat right now.

I came to Arizona (Mesa) from NY 24 years ago. I was always amazed over the years to see those sky high real estate prices all over California. You KNEW that couldn’t last forever. And it just seemed incredible to me that the State of California was aiding and abetting millions and millions of illegal immigrants. You KNEW that was corruption.
Championed by Democrats with the good intention of helping people. Now, all the ginormous pensions for the guys who got $125,000 a year to sit by a firehouse phone and eat donuts, those pensions are paid by who?
Not the illegal immigrants.
Not by the Democrats.
By the guy who just went broke.
Crumble City.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 07:47:02

California marches to the beat of a different drummer, I think Keith Moon.

Comment by CasaTostada
2008-09-03 10:16:21

Actually California marches to the beat of the former drummer for Spinal Tap who spontaneously combusted.

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Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 11:01:41

Ed Begley, Jr. was amongst those drummed out of the band, if memory serves…

 
 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 07:48:46

And a texas neo-con wants to make them all legal. Big biz loves cheap foreign labor.

Comment by Skip
2008-09-03 08:49:28

Umm…you might want to add Arizona and Illinois to that list as well.

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Comment by sartre
2008-09-03 08:51:07

It appears that the higher the job in this country, lower we set the bar….
Cindy McCain claimed last week that Palin had foriegn policy experience since alaska is close to Russia.
f’k me… I too, am a gourmet Chef since I eat in restaurants.

Conservatives think babygate is a good thing since it makes Palin look like an average person. Pray, why are we trying to elect an average person to the second most powerful office in the world?

Comment by exeter
2008-09-03 09:21:33

Leave them to their delusion sartre. They’re no different than realtards talking up the market while ignoring the tsunami growing behind them.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-03 09:57:44

Yeah, I really gotta say the double standards in this election are already quite amazing.

Baby-gate (what would they say if Palin was a D) and the “SERVICE” signs everywhere last night made me howl. Aren’t these the same people for whom running a campaign on service was unpalatable 4 years ago?

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Comment by exeter
2008-09-03 12:16:25

Bristol Palin…. a product by the party of “abstinence-only sex education”.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 17:00:25

Wouldn’t you just love to hear what the republicans say when they think the microphone isn’t on?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/03/peggy-noonan-mike-murphy_n_123647.html

 
 
 
 
Comment by Blano
2008-09-03 09:08:02

A little too much venom with the cereal this morning for our far lefty cohorts, eh??? : )

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 09:28:09

I have to say the Alaska governess is far more attractive looking than HC. Is it safe to guess that at least some men will vote with their eyes?

Comment by measton
2008-09-03 09:50:31

Look at all the TV shows that feature ugly men with hot wives. My guess is the GOP is targeting this group of idiots.

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Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-03 09:59:56

Oh heck, pb you guys always vote with your other head.

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Comment by Mary Lee
2008-09-04 00:03:47

…..and she’s demonstrably a better shot than Cheney

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Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 12:34:24

“These are the days when men of all social disciplines and all political faiths seek the comfortable and the accepted; when the man of controversy is looked upon as a disturbing influence; when originality is taken to be a mark of instability; and when, in minor modification of the original parable, the bland lead the bland.”

John Kenneth Galbraith

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-09-03 09:20:21

Ron Paul’s rival convention drew 12,000 people to the Target Center yesterday, by the way. Not that you’ll see much media coverage of that event.

Here’s one link, however.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-03 10:00:17

John Roberts did a spot with him on the national news as well last night. RP basically said he got an “unvitation” to the RNC.

I would’ve liked to see him speak..

Comment by exeter
2008-09-03 11:11:38

The RNC destroyed RP’s grass roots popularity. Every so often there is an national election that pushes a candidate into office from a ground swell on Main Street and this election is one of them. The RNC chose not to capitalize on RP’s massive internet presence and gave it away. They prefer gimmicks and the continuation of the fascist/corporatist kleptocracy of our current regime. Regardless of the speculation that he could have had a successful presidency, there is no question he had what it took to win.

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Comment by exeter
2008-09-03 07:02:21

I’ve noticed a proliferation of new for sale signs, others taken down, more FSBO signs, realtor sign swap. This churn phenomena is clearly growing and from personal knowledge, realtards are still pricing new inventory far beyond market value. Specifically one realtard I know who speculated on the way up is pricing new stuff at a point you can nearly gaurantee will never sell. These guys seems to be their own worst enemy. Sales everywhere are down a minimum of 30% and as high as 50% decline in sales volume. As much as I want to belabor the point that they are criminally stupid, at what point does this impediment to sales breakdown?

Also, it is worthy to mention that the general public is completely clueless about the cracks that seem so obvious to many of us. Aside from that, any thoughts on my first paragraph?

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-03 07:24:55

‘These guys (realtards) seems to be their own worst enemy.’

Good, because they deserve themselves.Who else has been/is as slimy, deceitful, craven, greedy, wretched and generally vile? Besides developers, I mean?

Comment by Neil
2008-09-03 07:36:29

Good, because they deserve themselves.Who else has been/is as slimy, deceitful, craven, greedy, wretched and generally vile? Besides developers, I mean?
Mortgage brokers and MBS bond traders. Let’s include the whole REIC! ;)

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-09-03 07:43:04

Here in Mesa, there are FOR SALE, FOR LEASE, COMMERCIAL PROPERTY AVAILABLE signs on every street. Way more commercial property than SFH for sale or rent.

Some strip malls (new) just dark windows.

Completely, hopelessly overbuilt.

I my subdivision of 254 homes, three went into foreclosure last year through this year. We have an HOA. $75 per month. We are 1/2 mile from Mountain View high school. Loop 202 and Hwy 87 nearby.

 
Comment by auger-inn
2008-09-03 07:44:07

Here in upper NH I am still seeing inventory increases but with insane pricing. A few pendings but not commensurate with the increase in inventory levels. I don’t know what it is going to take to open the fracking eyes of the sellers and realtors though.
I’m tracking a few of the pendings to see if they actually close. I honestly don’t think anyone up here is aware that the rest of the country is experiencing double digit RE price reductions. I can’t really explain it other than to say that there is no way that houses stay at 6-8X median income. I told the wife that we can plan on staying put AT LEAST another year as my earlier estimate of mid-late 09 is not going to happen in this area as it is badly lagging the rest of the world. Right now I’m thinking 2010-11 for a purchase but that is subject to change as I refuse to buy until the asshat sellers come to grips with reality. I guess a depression will shake them out finally, but who knows? At any rate, we like where we are so that really helps a lot since I’m in no hurry to move again.
By my math, prices need to drop at least 40% to be anywhere comparable to rents.

Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-03 10:08:08

REO comps and mls history on one house in 4 yr old developement..

2004 3/2+ den,2700′, 9800′ lot.
250k
2007- 525k+ 57k refi.
2008- reo, 250k and sitting for 5 months, between 2 other reos.
gated community.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-03 11:09:28

I’d be staying on top of how the ski resorts were doing this winter for some indicators for housing market softening.

Double as a ski lift attendant? Bartend?

“By my math, prices need to drop at least 40% to be anywhere comparable to rents.”

I think a lot of your fellow potential buyers don’t live in Conway so the rent comps won’t work there. How many get togethers have I gone to in Conway where the owner(s) lived and worked in the Seacoast region or the Boston area? I think this downturn will be more intense but we skied through both the early 80’s and early 90s recessions just as much as the stronger years—Only one person I skied with ever lost a job and that was when his father sold the company. :)

As prices do correct in Conway, I believe you’ll still be bumping into the skiing 20 somethings who’ll go into the purchase w/1 or more other professionals. As long as they’re working, it is my opinion that area’s prices will remain sticky.

Hang in there! My main target town is beloved by tourists too.

 
 
Comment by bluprint
2008-09-03 07:45:12

One thought I have, do you know of any cases where a realtor prices a house (or a series of houses) at a certain price level (let’s say, 20% over current FMV) and simultaneously prices a house he owns at or near FMV? It might be something worth looking into just for kicks. If a realtor is trying to unload his own albatross (and many are) perhaps they are sacrificing customers to make their own price look better.

On a related note, a girl my wife works with just bought a house (I don’t know if they have closed yet). They aren’t too savy with money and from what I hear the husband looked at a few places, chose one that he then showed her and they decided to buy it. Didn’t really do much shopping. I don’t know much about the place, but I know they are paying over $100/sqft which is absurd given the age and location. Come to find out the house is owned by a realtor. I guess that realtor is a pretty good salesperson.

Comment by exeter
2008-09-03 08:15:09

Thats a good point BP. The realtard I speak of hung a shingle in 2002 and already he has signed most of the new listings in town and the village and he currently owns and has for sale two shacks. He has plenty of listings as evidenced by his signs which has bumped the long time local realtard into obscurity.

 
 
Comment by CasaTostada
2008-09-03 10:23:07

I think many of them are gaming things (i.e., giving sellers bad advice) to cover their own investments. In the neighborhood I track, I know of at least two (of maybe four or five) realtors who own spec houses and are trying to sell. Keeping the listing prices high gaurantees: (1) their investment will not be devalued by market comps, or (2) priced out in the event they try to sell. On the way up, their is no conflict (at least w/r/t realtors and sellers)–push prices to the sky as fast as you can. On the way down, realtors need to make sales, but not if it means destroying their capital investments.

 
 
Comment by Marcus
2008-09-03 07:51:59

“We tried to pre-sell as a condominium and set up a sales office the same week that Public Works closed SW 2nd Avenue for renovations,” Hudson wrote. “We went through with a massive media campaign the likes of which have never been seen in Gainesville before or since. Needless to say, the potential buyers could not find us, and those that did could not get to our sales center. The project was in the right place at the wrong time.”

Yeah… that was the problem with putting luxury con-doze in the middle of Gainesville, FL. They originally said that they were targeting the ‘untapped’ graduate student market… you know, because people working 60 hrs a week for little or no pay need luxury con-doze.

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20080902/NEWS/809030295/1002&title=Gainesville_Greens_scrapped_after_3_years

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-03 07:54:12

Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell

Thanks for your response regarding your 8 years in Chicago. I have absolutely no reason to doubt you whatsoever. It’s just that I left the area right after high school in 1977 and really haven’t been back. At the time the number of ‘festivals’ seemed kind of minimal?

When I first moved to Portland we had The Rose Festival, Molalla had the Buckeroo and St. Paul had a rodeo. That was about it. Now it seems every town ( however tiny ) has more parades and festivals than you can shake a stick at! It’s just gotten completely out of control. I’d suggest a new category for anyone with an eye toward testing the waters for a retirement spot. Sure, number of days of sunshine, golf, cost of living, crime and a “Festival Rating”!

A perfect score of a 100 ( means they have absolutely NO d!ckwad fest’s! ) Each successive weekend befouled by inane ‘festivities’ deduct (2) points unless they’re back-to-back weekends then deduct (4) :)

Comment by incredulous
2008-09-03 09:50:57

Dinor, After hearing all the hype about the rose festival I took my kids a few years ago. Although it’s billed as “family-friendly”, we left after an hour because it’s really just another venue for drunks to get intoxicated in public and eat hot dogs, just like most sporting events/festivals/etc. If the kids aren’t interested in those silly carnival rides, there’s nothing there to do.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-03 12:01:14

incredulous,

I’m very sorry to hear that. By the time our daughters were teens we stopped going altogether. The “Fun Center” ’seemed’ to be o.k during the daylight hours but as it got dark ( when it’s a LOT more fun to be a teen ) the place turns into “Night of the Living Crackheads” and we had to get out of there fast!

In a way it’s surprising the city is ’still’ trying to cash in on the whole family friendly ‘atmosphere’? What’s more is that these ‘events’ are incredibly… expensive. You can burn through a hundred bucks before you’ve been there an hour!

Oh, that’s all you had on you? Thanks for coming because there’s nothing ‘here’ for FREE! Move along now. You know I can’t ever recall going to one of those things feeling like I got my money’s worth? I know I beat on this topic a LOT ( but can any of YOU recall when you thought it was a “bargain”? )

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-03 10:16:54

Festivals and street fairs had gotten overdone.overwhelmed by 2001. I got into doing some fairs as a side business. Friend of mine had done them for 9 yrs making serious scratch. So, I followed suit on pt basis.
Well, as luck/timing would have it, it was yr after 9/11 and
it seemed then that nobody had their wallet with them. Unless it was food. Thank goodness if you were a food vendor that Americans love to eat. All the time.
Also around, before/after, 9/11, antique shops etc were all making or using reproductions to supplement product. I guess with our huge population increase, antiques spread thin.
That is what I noticed. Business closed. Need any leather goods?

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-03 12:07:36

desertdweller,

For better or worse, working the Fest Circuit has become serious business here in Oregon. ALL the vendors complain their booth isn’t getting the best exposure and they’re not coming back next year etc.

Great. Great ‘festive’ atmosphere. No offense but “I” came here to enjoy time with my family. To be fair, we’ve dropped that pretense and it’s… about the bucks. Any city council will tell you that. I guess I just liked it better when the park was… well, the park!

 
 
Comment by Amy98058
2008-09-03 11:49:06

Don’t forget the McMinnville TurkeyRama! I loved it when in college (early 80s) but haven’t been back since.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 09:14:17

Page 1 of 5
CREDIT BUBBLE BULLETIN
Ponzi dynamics still at play
Commentary and weekly watch by Doug Noland

US gross domestic product expanded expanded at a 3.3% pace in the second quarter, the strongest since 2007’s Q3 4.8%. Durable Goods Orders, Existing Home Sales, and the Chicago Purchasing Managers’ index were all reported “stronger-than-expected”. And with commodity prices almost 20% off July highs - and crude oil notably unimpressive this week in the face of a major Gulf hurricane - the markets seem to lend support to the waning inflation viewpoint.

The dollar rallied further last week. Meanwhile, despite Friday’s downdraft, Freddie Mac gained 60% this week and Fannie Mae advanced 37%. Monoline insures MBIA and Ambac surged 59% and 35%, respectively. MBIA saw its stock price more than double during August, to surpass US$16. The Bank index jumped 3.1% this week and the Broker/Dealers rallied 4.0%. Homebuilding stocks were up 9%.

Investors are increasingly willing to accept that the worst of the credit crisis has passed. Talk that the nation’s housing markets are bottoming becomes louder each week. And every day market participants seem more receptive to the “economic resiliency” thesis.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 09:19:38

Layoffs could reach 1 mllion this year
Desk of a laid-off worker

August layoffs were down 14 percent from July, but it’s not all good news on the job loss front. This was the worst summer of layoffs since 2002. Steve Henn learns that an even grimmer picture could be yet to come.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 10:10:40

latest news
Rosengren: This credit crunch impacts consumers too

ECONOMIC REPORT
Summer job-cut announcements at 6-yr. high: Challenger
By Ruth Mantell, MarketWatch
Last update: 9:30 a.m. EDT Sept. 3, 2008

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Job-cut announcements this summer hit their highest level since six years ago, when the country was still recovering from the 2001 recession, according to a Wednesday report from consultancy Challenger, Gray & Christmas Inc.

Between May and August of this year, there were 377,325 job cuts — the greatest number for a summer season since 2002 and up 30% from cut announcements in the first four months of 2008, according to Challenger.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-03 10:19:36

“followed by car makers and governments hit hard by falling property tax revenue. Retail layoffs are also surging. But there was one bright spot. The number of layoffs at financial services firms was down dramatically in August.

Challenger: That suggests we have moved past the bottom and may be nearing the end of the blood-letting in that sector.

And that’s good news. On the other hand, it could mean there’s no one in the financial services sector left to fire.”

Just another Bottom caller.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 09:22:32

In Fannie We Trust? I am hoping Wachter is not referring to stock market investors, as I keep hearing resurgent rumors about plans to wipe out the GSE shareholders in an upcoming bailout.

Wednesday, September 3, 2008

Renewed trust in Freddie and Fannie
Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae logos

The government’s implicit backing of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae has apparently convinced investors that the two mortgage giants are a safe bet. John Dimsdale finds out why.
———————————————————————————-
John Dimsdale: Fannie and Freddie have lost some $14 billion over the past year as mortgage foreclosures spread. Their crisis convinced Congress to give the Treasury Department authority to prop up the two mortgage giants with taxpayer money, if necessary.

Susan Wachter: Fannie and Freddie and FHA are the game, the only game.

Wharton School professor Susan Wachter says along with the Federal Housing Administration, Fannie and Freddie are virtually the only financers of mortgages this year. And with the government implicitly backing their liabilities, investors feel safe.

Wachter: The entire federal government has come out one way or the other in supporting this debt as quite close to Treasury debt. Thus it’s secure. And it’s been clarified that it has the backing of the federal government.

Wachter says despite investor confidence, Fannie and Freddie won’t be back on solid financial footing until the housing industry turns around.

In Washington, I’m John Dimsdale for Marketplace.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 09:26:40

I keep hearing GSE bailout rumors, with ‘experts’ conjecturing about whether shareholders will get wiped out. Isn’t this question largely moot, given the recent performance of GSE share prices? Or am I missing something here?

Comment by auger-inn
2008-09-03 10:00:50

I think a lot of banks and pension funds hold this stock. Not sure but perhaps a takeover that wiped out the stock would lead to a mark-to-market event? It would seem that the stock market price would have to be reflected on their books regardless, so perhaps this is flawed reasoning.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 10:09:34

Common GSE stock shares are toast. Many institutional investors hold GSE preferred stock, and I believe it is the fate of this investment class which remains uncertain.

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-03 10:10:00

I’m scratchin’ my head too P’Bear?

Leigh

 
Comment by hoz
2008-09-03 17:44:22

Yes, Virginia – Creditors do sometimes get a vote …
Posted on Tuesday, September 2nd, 2008 by bsetser

“…In this case, though, the world’s central banks have a fairly clear alternative to buying Agencies: buying Treasuries. Shifting from Treasuries to Agencies cost them a few basis points, but it didn’t require a wholesale change in the currency regimes. It doesn’t require any big policy decision on their part. It is just a technical decision about reserve management – and probably a prudent one at that….”

http://blogs.cfr.org/setser/2008/09/02/yes-virginia-–-creditors-do-sometimes-get-a-vote-…/

Bailing out of GSE debt by foreign central banks.

 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 09:43:02

10 year at 3.69. Heh.

Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-03 10:11:46

If you feel like a gambing man, Mexican 28 day treasuries (cetes) are paying 8%. The gambling part is that they are Peso, not Dollar denominated, and the Peso recently has gained on the dollar (used to be 11 to 1, now its about 10 to 1). So if the peso slides back to 11 to 1, you lose.

Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 11:13:33

We were at 3.3 in March, I believe. Remember where the stock market was?

 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 11:17:17

Dollars are only as good as the debt that is behind them. That’s what it means to have a debt-based currency.

Dollars are only accepted as money as long as people have faith that they will be worth something.

Think about this: foreigners are losing faith in GSE debt right now. GSE’s have the explicit backing of the US government. What does that mean for faith in the USD?

 
Comment by Oberserver
2008-09-03 12:45:40

Help me understand the 10 year. A few weeks ago it was around 4, why has it dropped, what does it signal for the future? Don’t mortgage rates track the 10 year? Does this mean mortgage rates are going down?

Comment by CA renter
2008-09-04 03:30:32

Mortgages are often tied to the 10-year note, but you can still have wider spreads (the difference between Treasuries and other types of debt). While Treasury yields have dropped, mortgage rates have risen somewhat.

IMO, the lower yield on the 10-yr Note is because investors are buying Treasury debt…this often signals fear in the market.

Comment by CA renter
2008-09-04 03:31:39

clarification:

They are moving **more** money into Treasuries which brings the yield down. They are probably doing this because they do not trust other investments (stocks and other debt).

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-03 09:43:49

SEC Charges Credit Suisse Traders With Defrauding Customers
9/3/2008 11:26 AM ET

RTTNews) - Two traders associated with Credit Suisse (CS: News ) have been charged with defrauding customers, the Securities and Exchange Commission announced Wednesday. The SEC is alleging that Julian Tzolov and Eric Butler deceived their customers while at Credit Suisse by offering them auction rate securities that the customers were told were backed by federally guaranteed student loans, when they were actually being backed by subprime mortgage.

(Cont’d)

Oh Dear,
Leigh

http://www.rttnews.com/Content/Policy.aspx?Id=700842

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-09-03 09:52:15

Hey Left LA / In Chicago, looks like a unit in your building is going to foreclosure auction (at least I think it’s your building):

Unit #1602 is going to foreclosure auction this week. It is not currently listed on the market.

* Sold in December 2006 for $571,000
* Lis pendens filed in July 2007
* Foreclosure auction of $447,890

 
Comment by samk
2008-09-03 09:54:01

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26527616/

“The Securities and Exchange Commission alleged in a civil lawsuit that two former Credit Suisse Securities brokers led corporate customers to believe that auction-rate securities being purchased in their accounts were backed by federally-guaranteed student loans and were safe like cash.”

Since this is a civil suit there is no possibility of jail time, correct?

Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-03 10:21:18

Especially if they have Scooter Libby’s attorney and friends…W, Cheney?

Comment by exeter
2008-09-03 11:19:49

And don’t for get the 3rd rate, mail order juris doctorates in the department of (in)justice.

 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-03 10:20:25

A fun little anecdote, which indicates that the free spending, good times are over.

Disneyland will be having an event next month to celebrate Miley Cyrus’s birthday. They are going to close Disneyland early in the day and have a special ticketed event in the evening, limited to 5000 tickets. The price: a mere $250 per person.

Disney was expecting the event to sell out in minutes. To prevent scalping tickets will have the attendee’s name printed on them and they will check IDs.

So what happened? It didn’t sell out (not even close)! I guess Mom & Dad realize now that the HELOC is gone that they really can’t afford to shell out $500 or more so that one of them could take the daughter(s) to see Hanna Montana live at Disneyland.

Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 10:49:44

the local walmart and target cant sell any of her lunch boxes, backpacks, bed spreads, etc…. i was suprised to see they couldent even get it to sell at a discount. i guess if you cant eat it, nobody will buy it!

Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 11:39:19

When kids decide something is over, you can stick a fork in it.

Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-03 12:31:01

So how long until Disney pulls the plug on her show and moves on to the next pre-teen idol?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by bluprint
2008-09-03 11:42:24

She came in concert to Ark….I don’t know, maybe a year ago? (Time flies since I’ve been in grad school)

Anyway, tickets sold out, and there was this huge controversy about scalpers. People on the local news talking about how their precious little thing won’t get to see hanna montana and it’s just TURRBLE that all those greedy people have the audacity to deprive their precious child.

I can’t believe how much money people spend on their kids. If I ever have kids, they can go to a concert when they can:

1) pay for it themselves

2)drive themselves or hire a driver

3)represent themselves in court for any associated activities

I’m pretty sure I only ever ate in a restaraunt a time or two growing up. If my parents went out it was without us, likely to save money. And frankly I can’t blame them, I probably wouldn’t have appreciated it anyway.

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 10:24:40

GMAC slashing work force, reduces mortgage lending

GMAC Financial cutting 5,000 jobs, ceasing wholesale mortgage originations

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080903/gmac_financial_restructuring.html

Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 11:11:40

res capped.

 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 11:24:13

FWIW I know that Treasuries will never, ever lose their AAA rating even in the event of a giant asteroid smashing into the USA or nuclear winter, etc. But it is interesting that they have to issue a denial.

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The top “AAA” debt rating of the U.S. government will probably stand firm despite the increased likelihood the Treasury may have to support home loan funding companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Standard & Poor’s said on Tuesday.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssFinancialServicesAndRealEstateNews/idUSN0244967220080902

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 11:27:23

Fed: Slow growth, still-high prices hit economy

Given the fragile state of the economy, the Fed isn’t in a hurry to boost rates to fend off creeping inflation. A growing number of analysts believe the economy is likely to hit another dangerous rough patch later this year as consumers and businesses curtail their spending even more.

Heading into the fall, economic activity continued to be slow, the Fed said. Businesses described the climate as “weak” or “soft” or “subdued.”

Consumers, the lifeblood of the economy, showed caution. Shoppers “concentrated on necessary items and retrenchment in discretionary spending,” the Fed observed.

The Fed regions of Chicago, Dallas and San Francisco, for instance, reported noticeable declines in spending on clothing, electronics and jewelry. Sales of furniture and household appliances, meanwhile, were weak in most parts of the country — victims of the housing slump.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080903/fed_economy.html

i see absolutly no good news comming from the FED. will wallstreet stage a late day rally on this bleak outlook?

Comment by watcher
2008-09-03 11:57:32

Price of oil a year ago $70, today it’s $109 which is a 55% increase.
Price of RBOB Unleaded a year ago $2.05 today $3.00 or a 46% increase.

And we won’t even talk about food. Or look back another year.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-03 11:59:17

Consumers, the lifeblood of the economy,

Hey Corporate America, we can’t buy your stuff unless we get raises

showed caution. Shoppers “concentrated on necessary items and retrenchment in discretionary spending,” the Fed observed.

We shopped for a dishwasher over the weekend. Every where we went, it was really quiet. In some places we were the only people shopping for appliances.

The one we bought:
Was on sale
18 months same as cash
free installation and free haul away.

Comment by vozworth
2008-09-03 18:35:52

TANSTAAFL.

or free delivery and haul away.

 
 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 12:05:58

1989: Fall of Communism

2008: Fall of Consumerism

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-03 13:23:51

well, it must have been somewhat bullish news. the DOW ended up gaining almost 16 points at the end of the day!

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-09-03 12:04:12

ResCap in peace.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a1Gr65hw_HbA&refer=home

“GMAC LLC and its Residential Capital LLC home loan unit plan to dismiss 5,000 employees, or 60 percent of the unit’s staff, and close all 200 GMAC Mortgage retail offices because of weak real estate markets.”

“Egan, who has a junk rating on GMAC debt, estimates the company may need to raise at least $10 billion to avoid failing in the next two quarters. With the mortgage unit struggling to originate loans and the auto-finance unit losing money, he doesn’t expect them to stay solvent.”

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-03 12:24:37

“One can relish the varied idiocy of human action during a panic to the full, for, while it is a time of great tragedy, nothing is being lost but money.”

John Kenneth Galbraith

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 12:30:39

Can the home-price bottom stay a year away forever? The graph that accompanies this piece shows prices going down steeply through April 2010, just in time for high end housing to get clobbered by the peak in Alt-A and prime resets. Why buy now if Da Boyz in the Street are predicting falling prices into the indefinite future?

September 3, 2008, 1:38 pm
Home-Price Bottom May Still Be a Year Away

Home Depot Inc. CEO Frank Blake told a Goldman Sachs retail conference that some recent housing trends indicate “we’re getting awfully close to the bottom” of the current correction, but economists at Credit Suisse say that one of the major metrics — home prices — aren’t going to reach lows for at least a year.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 12:36:01

September 2, 2008, 3:59 pm
GOP Senator: Congress Could Use Econ 101

Sen. Robert Bennett (R., Utah) told a Minneapolis gathering hosted by the Financial Services Roundtable that the greatest urgency was to teach his fellow members of Congress is how to understand financial matters.

He said that lawmakers regularly confused the national deficit and the national debt, and many failed to grasp the concept of the debt to gross domestic product ratio, a key way of expressing the true state of a country’s finances. Bennett told the appreciative crowd that if the financial-services industry collectively educated lawmakers about financial issues, there was a chance that the level of debate on the campaign trail about economic matters might improve.

“That is your assignment, and you have until 5 p.m. this evening to complete it,” said Bennett.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 12:38:24

If the housing price correction seems grim thus far, just wait until ARM recasts shift it into overdrive within the next couple of years.

September 2, 2008, 11:17 am
Fitch Pegs Housing-Price Pressure From Option ARMs

Fitch Ratings said Tuesday that U.S. pay-option adjustable-rate mortgages face dramatically increasing defaults in the coming year and beyond.

Option ARMs allow the borrower to make a low minimum monthly payment, usually for five years, and the difference between the minimum payment and the full payment is added to the mortgage balance. At the five-year mark, the loan terms reset and the mortgage payment increases to ensure full payment of the loan by maturity. The higher payments mean many option ARM borrowers will be left unable to afford their homes, and increased defaults will likely exert more downward pressure on house prices.

Of the $200 billion of option ARMs outstanding, Fitch expects $29 billion to recast by the end of 2009 and another $67 billion to recast in 2010. The potential average payment increase on those recasting loans is 63%, or an extra $1,053 a month, on top of the current payment.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-03 13:43:37

“The potential average payment increase on those recasting loans is 63%, or an extra $1,053 a month, on top of the current payment.”

Wow! Half of the remaining Option-Arm loans will reset at an average increase of $1053.

Then again, what do they mean “potential”? I assume they mean, if they aren’t refi’d before the reset?

 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-09-03 12:44:35

Does anyone understand what’s going on with financial recently? Is this just a bear-trap rally? Sure seems like the bad news can’t be all out yet, but they’re going up and up.

Hoz, any opinions?

Sorry if this is a re-post; first copy didn’t show up even after a couple of hours.

Comment by hoz
2008-09-03 15:49:49

No volume, hard to borrow stock to short. Many are bumping up to the upper BBs before they break, a typical bear market pattern.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-03 14:36:04

Roll over and play dead for me…

The 3-headed hound from hades is on auto-destruct.

Sales are 34% off from this time last year~

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-03 15:57:03

After Ospraie, more hedge fund closures look likely
Wed Sep 3, 2008 11:32am EDT

By Laurence Fletcher

LONDON, Sept 3 (Reuters) - The closure of Ospraie Management LLC’s flagship hedge fund is likely to be the first of several such failures, as a slump in commodities and a spike in financial stocks catch out funds with hard-to-sell positions.

Five years of soaring commodity prices have encouraged a flood of investor assets and a raft of new hedge funds, which have sought investment opportunities in an increasingly crowded sector.

However, the recent setback in commodity and energy prices, driven by concerns demand for resources will suffer as economic growth slows, has seen many managers take substantial hits.

Those in illiquid positions face the biggest headache as nervous investors look to withdraw their money at the first opportunity.

“I think there will be more problems,” said one fund-of-hedge-funds manager who requested anonymity in order to speak candidly. “It will be an issue for hedge funds with quarterly redemptions who have gone into illiquid positions.

“It was not too dissimilar to the dot-com boom, where larger players bought a lot of smaller companies without too carefully considering them, (although) there is underlying value in the commodity and energy sector”.

 
Comment by vozworth
2008-09-03 19:42:56

pricing power theory testing.

if you have commodities going lower, housing going lower, wages going lower, incomes going lower, equities going lower, inflation expectations lowering….

you cant raise prices on goods or services. you can only eliminate debts and reduce costs. Thats a feedback loop thats not in the radar spectrum…this is the disconnect in the bond market…a flattened yield cureve works against the banks “getting well”.

The CB’s and SWF’s are confused and dont know what to buy, they themselves are about to send not only the short end, but the longer end lower (TREND FOLLOWING)…..does this put a floor under housing? NO, only higher mortage rates can accomplish that task…thus, the disconnect.

The pricing power in housing will ultimately be the leading indicator of the bottom, but at the lowest end of the spectrum (it will be all about price and nothing to do with interest rates)…ergo:

The future looks more llike the past……Shillers solution from the hoz post above…..”calling for a new federal agency modeled on the Home Owners’ Loan Corp., created in 1933 to refinance mortgages and keep people in their homes. One of the best things about this agency was that it was designed to be temporary…”

Comment by vozworth
2008-09-03 20:20:37

Is this a possibility:
76 dollar oil, 6.80 natural gas?

if so,
In my world, this is 564 dollar gold.

tell me what that means, other than if you are short TLT, you are about to get hurt.

celebrate the victories.

 
 
Comment by Happy Renter in Vancouver
2008-09-03 21:38:10

Good News from North of the Border… Vancouver, BC finally cracks… Prices down 4.3% in 3 months!

Big drop in Lower Mainland home sales

‘This summer, sales went off a cliff,’ says urban economist
Derrick Penner, Vancouver Sun
Published: Wednesday, September 03, 2008

The turn of the Lower Mainland real estate market’s cycle has been more dramatic than expected with real estate boards reporting another drop in sales and slide in prices at the end of August.

In Greater Vancouver, August Multiple Listing Service sales were down almost 54 per cent to 1,568 units, compared with 3,348 units in the same month a year ago.

So-called benchmark prices across Greater Vancouver in August, while still up from 2007, continued their slide from May.
Multiple-Listing-Service sales were down almost 54 per cent to 1,568 units in Greater Vancouver, from 3,348 units in the same month a year ago.

The typical Metro Vancouver detached home sold for $737,985 in August, down 4.3 per cent from May. The typical apartment, at $374,366, was down 3.9 per cent. The typical townhouse, at $463,433, was down 3.2 per cent.

 
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