Some Of The Lowest Prices In Ages And It’s Just Not Selling
The Dahlonega Nugget reports from Georgia. “Lumpkin County began feeling the the building bubble burst in mid-2005, says Clarence Stowers, who has been in the construction business for 29 years. That’s when ‘calls and inquiries sort-of went away,’ he says. ‘With so many houses available, there just wasn’t any need to build more.’”
“‘I listen for good news, but these days it’s hard to find in construction, or anything development related,’ says Lumpkin County Development Authority Executive Director Bruce Abraham. ‘I’ve had grading contractors calling just begging for work. Engineers and architects are offering to do free consultations just to get a foot in the door in hopes of a contract.’”
“‘I usually have had two or three on-going jobs,’ Stowers says. ‘In the past I’ve been able to pick and choose, but right now I’m basically bidding just to get a job, and there are 30 contractors bidding on the same job. Profit margins are really, really low.’”
“Michael Gilstrap’s grading business had 17 employees last year. Now he is down to three-himself, his son and one other long-time employee. ‘We haven’t got anything to do. I’m looking at selling two or three pieces of equipment and probably going to work for someone else for a while,’ Gilstrap says. ‘I can’t compete with all the people who are underbidding jobs. If there’s no money to be made, what’s the use of going out there’”
“‘It’s amazing what this slowdown has done to people’s morale and attitudes,’ Stowers says. ‘There’s a place I’ve been doing business with for years, and they are not longer allowing people to charge. I had to wait the other day for them to clear my check. It’s tough, it’s hard times. Never in my life have I seen it this bad in Lumpkin County in construction.’”
“The glut of houses on the market, a cautious buying public and the increased difficulty of getting loans is having an effect on the residential real estate industry as well. Local realtor Vic Dover of Dover Realty says he began seeing the slowdown at the end of 2007.”
“‘There was a brief flurry in January, but it’s dropped off to very little activity. The number of phone calls and of people actively seeking to buy has dropped off precipitously,’ he says.”
“Sue Jones with Coldwell Banker says last year her sales were $6 million, but ‘this year is a lot different. Eight months into this year I’m probably not at $2 milliion.’ Raw land sales for residential sites are down. ‘I have parcels listed with some of the lowest prices in ages and it’s just not selling,’ Jones says.”
The Palm Beach Post from Florida. “A Palm Beach County real estate investor has pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit bank fraud and one count of mail fraud. Berry Louidort agreed to forfeit $6.5 million and a 2008 Mercedes, according to a plea agreement filed Wednesday in federal court.”
“According to the latest indictment from federal prosecutors, Louidort was part of a scheme to land bogus mortgages on 37 properties in Palm Beach County and seven in Naples.”
“In one example, Louidort convinced a lender that he had paid $1.03 million for a house west of Delray Beach and walked away from the closing with an ‘assignment fee’ of $250,000, federal prosecutors said in April. The house soon went into foreclosure.”
“The ring also enlisted straw buyers, such as the part-time Publix cashier whose income on loan applications was inflated from $13,000 to $344,000 so she could qualify for $1.3 million in loans on a Boca Raton home.”
“After nearly half a century of building Florida neighborhoods, Oriole Homes Corp. finally met an economic downturn it couldn’t survive. ‘I have shut them down,’ said Phil von Kahle, the court-appointed assignee.”
“The liquidation means Oriole Homes has stopped work on its Mayfair at Lawnwood condos in Fort Pierce and another development in Celebration, von Kahle said. Founded in 1963 by the Levy family, Oriole Homes survived deep real estate recessions in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. It also weathered a stormy spell from 1995 to 2002, when losses rose as high as $21 million a year. The company eked out only two profitable years.”
“The economic vise gripping many of Florida’s businesses and residents is prompting Florida Power & Light Co. to slash expenses, and is expected to stunt profits for its parent company.”
“Meanwhile, FPL’s parent company, Juno Beach-based FPL Group Inc., announced Wednesday that its earnings would be less than expected in 2009 - largely because of the housing-driven downturn. ‘This one is much longer and much steeper than we would have ever expected, and it has not bottomed out yet,’ Chief Financial Officer Armando Pimentel Jr. told investors.”
The Marco News. “As with many financial institutions, Marco Community Bank suffered significant losses due to unpaid loans and foreclosures over the past two years. But Marco Community Bank is among one of the smallest to date to file a lawsuit against the mortgage lenders who may be responsible for the situation.”
“The suit alleges that Atlantic Capital, a loan originator and underwriter, along with the other two companies, caused the bank to suffer nearly $20 million in damages by creating, marketing and selling impaired mortgages between June 2006 and April 2007.”
“‘All (mortgage lenders) were thinking about were the fees … They wanted to just push stuff through the pipeline. Far too many people put in sludge that turned to sewage and sometimes it was toxic,’ said Mark F. Raymond, a litigation attorney with Broad and Cassell Associates which is representing Marco Community Bank in the suit.”
The Naples News. “Southwest Florida’s largest privately held community bank has caught the eye of federal regulators. The Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta and Florida’s Office of Financial Regulation have taken a formal enforcement action against Naples-based Orion Bank, requiring it to strengthen its board oversight, improve its assets and change its loan policies.”
“The bank will also have to develop a plan to better manage its real estate loans, including reducing its risks, and revise its loan policies, including its standards for renewing, extending, or modifying existing loans.”
“Within 10 days, the bank will have to ‘eliminate from its books’ all assets, or portions of assets, that have been classified as a loss that have not be charged-off or already collected.”
“Since 2007, Orion has filed more than three dozen foreclosure actions in Lee and Collier counties. The bank has branch offices in Fort Myers, Cape Coral, Estero and Marco Island. It’s also had problem loans in such counties as Manatee and Sarasota, and on the east coast of Florida, where it has a handful of branches.”
“Orion has been making adjustments in its operations since the shift in the market, said Jerry Williams, Orion’s chairman, president and CEO. Last year, it formed a special assessment department to deal with problem loans, he said.”
“‘You don’t know your roof leaks until it rains,’ Williams said.”
“In August, new foreclosure filings fell for a second month in a row in Lee County. There were 2,154 filings last month, down from 2,301 in July, according to the Lee County Clerk’s office. They reached a record high of 2,518 in June.”
“‘It’s trending per day downward, but the backlog is increasing,’ said the county’s Clerk of Courts Charlie Green. ‘We now have over 22,000 that have not been disposed of. There is not a final judgment.’”
“He expects to see more declines in coming months. ‘The number one reason is they are just running out of foreclosures. There are just not that many more properties to be foreclosed.’”
The Bradenton Herald. “The number of foreclosure filings in Manatee County fell slightly in August from the record-breaking heights the month before. August saw 456 foreclosure filings, according to Manatee County Clerk of Court records, bringing the total for the year to 3,616.”
“The number of foreclosures so far this year has eclipsed the number of foreclosures in all of 2007 by nearly 1,000, and there are still four months to go.”
“While local Realtors report that much of their recent business has been in distressed sales, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the property is being given away. The median price of existing homes sold in Bradenton-Satasota in July was $230,100, well above the state average, according to the Florida Association of Realtors.”
“‘It’s very difficult to work with a buyer who is looking at short sales or foreclosures because they think they are going to get it for a steal,’ said Ron Cornette, director of training and marketing for Wagner Realty.”
“Since the beginning of the year, only two homes in Manatee County have been listed in MLS as being sold in time to stop the home from becoming bank-owned. What many people making offers on these homes or even the bank-owned homes aren’t taking into consideration is that the banks are hurting, too, Cornette said.”
“In some cases, banks will have to take losses because they are owed more than the home is worth, but that doesn’t mean they will sell the home at half of its market value. ‘We spend a lot of time making offers that are never going to fly,’ Cornette said.”
Bubble-Mint Town*
The Dahlonega Nugget reports from Georgia.
“Lumpkin County began feeling the the building bubble burst in mid-2005, says Clarence Stowers, who has been in the construction business for 29 years. That’s when ‘calls and inquiries sort-of went away,’ he says. ‘With so many houses available, there just wasn’t any need to build more.’”
* Dahlonega was the home of a U.S. Branch Mint, coining Gold Coins only, from 1838 till the start of the Civil War.
–
‘I have parcels listed with some of the lowest prices in ages and it’s just not selling,’ Jones says.”
“The lowest prices in ages,” Mrs Jones? You fogot the $1.25 per acre land deals that were not uncommon. You want to buy some CA mountain area land at $1,000 acres?
As the song goes… Me and Mrs Jones….
Jas
Hey Mrs Jones….. when your parcels get back down under $1000 per acre is when pukes like you have a meeting with historic reality.
I think it was posted here on this blog a week or so back that tillable acres are selling at an all time high of $2200/acre so where do these maggots get the idea that a 2 acre lot is somehow worth anything more than a few thousand bucks?
“A Palm Beach County real estate investor has pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to commit bank fraud and one count of mail fraud. Berry Louidort agreed to forfeit $6.5 million and a 2008 Mercedes, according to a plea agreement filed Wednesday in federal court.”
Huh, well, at least someone got caught. Now for the other million idiots who did the same things?
This whole thing reminds me of the traffic laws. If you’re going 10 over (just breaking the law a little bit) your fine. If you 50 over, you’ll get a ticket.
Same thing here. If you stole 8M dollars, you’re going to jail. A few 100K? No biggie, we’ll just let that one slide. Ugh.. Got to love laws that are selectively enforced.
“Got to love laws that are selectively enforced.”
In Palm Beach County, the only ones who are being targeted are the ones who didn’t pay off the board. I’m from Detroit but nothing compares to the corruption that is here.
Agreed. Makes me wonder how much plunder he got to actually KEEP. If he agreed to this deal you know he still got PAID. The prosecutors need to keep twisting the screws till they are the penniless bums they deserve to be. Then put them on a chain gang painting low income homes for the next 20 years…
The trouble with the law is,,,,,,It’s inherent disrespect for itself….The laws are there,,, it’s just that governments choose to inforce the one’s that are approprate for the time…
Like when a cop arrest somebody….they throw the book at them…hoping something just might stick….usually it’s the lesser of the the charges….
Huh, well, at least someone got caught.
There are many more cases just like this one, but the public is not being told about each and every case.
By the way, once you hit 10 mph and up over the speed limit, you will probally get a ticket as it is up to the officer. Most officers write at 10 and over and some write a ticket 15. The tickets I used to write were 15 over the speed limit, no matter what excuse you had with the exception of a true medical emergency or if I was on my way to the donut shop.
Since the beginning of the year, only two homes in Manatee County have been listed in MLS as being sold in time to stop the home from becoming bank-owned. What many people making offers on these homes or even the bank-owned homes aren’t taking into consideration is that the banks are hurting, too, Cornette said
Oh Yeah…the Poor Banks are Hurting TOO !
It’s probably from a mild stomach ache from GREEDY gorging on all their RECORD PROFITS over the last 5-6 years.
Rx: Take ONE FDIC bailout late on Friday night and DON’T bother to call me on Monday:)
“Since the beginning of the year, only two homes in Manatee County have been listed in MLS as being sold in time to stop the home from becoming bank-owned.
Is it time to declare the MLS obsolete in Florida?
The once-mighty and monopolistic database sho’ doesn’t work very well in Calif. Get more property views by searching “REO” and “Countrywide,” or its liquidating subsidiary, Recon, or whatever it calls itself.
Two homes sold from the MLS all year long? That’s slower than picking canker leaves from a citrus grove.
“Rx: Take ONE FDIC bailout late on Friday night and DON’T bother to call me on Monday”
nicely done, mikey.
“Sue Jones with Coldwell Banker says last year her sales were $6 million, but ‘this year is a lot different. Eight months into this year I’m probably not at $2 milliion.’ Raw land sales for residential sites are down. ‘I have parcels listed with some of the lowest prices in ages and it’s just not selling,’ Jones says.”
Then lower them more. Duh.
I always enjoy the Florida threads. After moving here right at the start of the Boom , I have been researching and documenting all the scams, fraud and other stupidity that has gone on here and surely this is the Crown Jewel RE stupidity , Fraud and Greed( Allthough California makes it hard to call).
The thing I have noticed here is the only ( Bargains?) Are bank owned Houses, in failed Developments , trashed houses , bad neighborhoods and far from town, and even if You find a good fixer-upper No bank wants to loan on it and even if You could find one that will, You can’t turn in an offer because the Sellers won’t take anything but a cash offer, as is with no inspections.
It has been a major drag for Me . I had a contract on a house for 40% of county appraisal, and I lost the deal because the Bank said and I quote ” We have looked at the Pictures of the House and they weren’t very Flattering” . This was a 20 yr old house with a golf course view , and nice landscaping and I could have got that much money for a New car loan which We all know is a rapidly depreciating asset.
So basically , Investors with cash are the only ones that can buy these properties and with the market the way it is, to make a profit they’ll have to hold for years or sell at or above the asking prices of all the thousands of overpriced houses that still aren’t selling and even at 50% off these properties won’t rent or cash flow .
If banks won’t loan 50k on a house that that cost 120k to build , not counting the cost of land, what does this tell You about Florida RE and how long this mess will drag on?
I foresee a ten year long downward spiral with many more ” Investors” losing their arses in Florida Real Estate Investing.
Those investors who purchase with the intent of renting the homes out long-term will lose nothing. Right now bank owned property and short sales are making the cost of ownership far under fair rental value. If they are cash flow positive, even slightly, they stand to make a lot of money in 20 years when everyone has forgotten about this whole mess.
Landlording is not an easy business. And those putative rents will be dropping shortly too.
My former landlady used to regale me with stories of good tenants gone bad, bad tenants who were never good, home repairs resulting from these tenants, and, well, you get the idea. Took the landlording desire right out of me.
It can be a tough business. My parents aquired several rentals in the 70s, including a seven unit apartment complex. My mom always did a thorough credit check, and still had a fairly high percentage of bad tenants. It was a lot of work dealing with bad tenants, showing vacant properties (especially since most of their properties were amost a hours drive away) and cleaning up after people when they moved out. Since my dad worked full time, I think it was particularly hard for him. But on the plus side, they had their rentals paid off pretty quickly. And by the time things were paid off, it was a good income. Now that most everything is sold off, my mom thinks commercial real estate is the way to go. But they’ve been fortunate to have the same tenant in their shop building for 30 + years. There are some commercial buildings that are vacant for long periods of time. And now that there is an over-supply, I doubt that’s an inventment I’d ever make.
Unless, of course, as will happen, rents start to decline, too. Lots of shelter is being held off the market because REOs are held by the bank, still afraid to write down their books. Buildings have been built and bought by investors, and hotels have been converted into unsold housing. When the market finally equilibrates, I suspect rents will have to drop because of the increased supply of places to live that are currently just temporarily off the market.
Anyone buying a property to rent now better be mighty careful, imo.
“Unless, of course, as will happen, rents start to decline, too… When the market finally equilibrates, I suspect rents will have to drop ….”
No “unless” it’s happening now. I see it (see post below)
I agree that it’s not if but when rents drop. I’ve watched the base rate for 1 BR 1 BA go from about $1,000 per month to $695 in less than two years. There’s no doubt about it. You’ll always get good renters and bad renters, but those defaulting right now will still need a place to live. Take first, last, and security and you should be OK in most cases.
Plus you’d get stiffed by property taxed in Florida. The Save our homes or whaterver it is called, sticks it to rental and commercial properties.
Save and keep renting…
I have the cash and still have found nothing.
And, I have looked; at the courthouse foreclosure sales, short sales….
I have seen nothing, nothing that will cash flow positive with 20% down or return 6-8% paid cash.
What I do see is that rentals are going down (I rent.)
I would love to buy something to live in. It just doesn’t make sense when renting is so much cheaper.
I disagree with Andy; many that buy now will not ever see a profit.
There is no panic now. I see prices dropping steadily in Palm Beach.
For example in Tequesta, Jupiter and the Gardens in the past 5 months prices have dropped almost from week to week.
Example: there were no houses in Tequesta under 200K 5 months ago. Today there are 20. And, they do sell. Strong price support at 185K-175K, at these prices they sell within weeks. 6 months ago the price to actually sell these houses would have been 210K.
At 175K-185K for a 2/2 from 1957 with a carport/1 car garage will not make money. Rentals for these are $1200 +- $50. Since I rent I know the market well. (Yes, there are seasonal fluctuations, but for a yearly rental this is the market.)
As you can see, I do not look at Mirasol or Frenchman’s Cove or blahty-blah. I’m looking to make money not get my ass handed to me.
So basically I have to disagree with both you and Andy that there are deals here, cash or with a down, short term or long term.
I would love for either of you to show me where I am wrong, you would be doing me a favor.
thx, Muir
I’ve watched deals across my desk where the buyer paid anywhere between 1990’s and early 2001 prices. These are deals from all over the county. The $100,000 price barrier has been broken on some of them. These are the ones I’m talking about being acceptable investments. Trust me, I’m no cheerleader…got burned too badly myself to be.
I’ve watched deals across my desk where the buyer paid anywhere between 1990’s and early 2001 prices.
Even at these prices one must be careful as there is a large amount of “hidden inventory” or the shadow market as others call it in property that owners are renting for less than what their payments are for the property. It is hurting the apartment complex type rentals and it will certainly hurt the single family or duplex rental market for some time to come.
The manner in which I expect to buy in SW Florida is as follows. An investor type wants to borrow 80% of the price of a pretty new 3/2 SFH, buying for somewhere under $100K. The buyer is not going to live there, but rent it out. I will not be surprised if the buyer defaults. I will just have paid 20% below today’s REO prices. Well, I’m not SURE the buyer will default, I am just looking at this loan as categorically different from those I rely on for income.
The problem with buying to rent in FL is the outrageous taxes that landlords are hit with. With no homesteader exemptions and so many long term residents enjoying minimal property tax hikes, the tax burden will continue to fall on landlords and part time residents. With HOA fees, taxes and insurance, a mortgage is almost prohibitive. I don’t want to get into an argument re fairness, but the reality is FL RE, as an investment, is foolish.
I foresee a ten year long downward spiral with many more ” Investors” losing their arses in Florida Real Estate Investing.
I agree, the Florida market is in deep trouble and most banks are being very careful on who they loan to and what they loan on due to the excessive fraud. Most banks are now doing their own appraisals in Florida due to the fraud that inflated appraisals during the boom.
shiller shilling for socialism
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/53963/The-Solution-to-America%E2%80%99s-Housing-Problem?tickers=^GSPC,fnm,fre
I always enjoy the Florida threads. After moving here right at the start of the Boom , I have been researching and documenting all the scams, fraud and other stupidity that has gone on here and surely this is the Crown Jewel RE stupidity , Fraud and Greed( Allthough California makes it hard to call).
The problem is you can’t call it fraud when almost everyone is in on it.
“‘I have parcels listed with some of the lowest prices in ages and it’s just not selling,’ Jones says.”
Don’t buy yet.
“Buy when everyone is selling and sell when everyone is buying”
J P Morgan
Jonestown 1978: All you-can-drink-kool-aid
Jonestown 2008: Nobody’s drinking the kool-aid
bahhhhhhhhh gold
try the poison-berry flavor…
That’s the one that’s colored death blue?
Gilstrap says. ‘I can’t compete with all the people who are underbidding jobs. If there’s no money to be made, what’s the use of going out there’”
Why are these people always shocked when the good times end ? There are only so many trees you can cut down before the forest is gone.
Probably because they thought that the reason they were able to poop money out of their behinds was because they were so smart and special. It had nothing to do with luck and being in the right place at the right time.
The Dahlonega Nugget, Lumpkin County, Georgia and a guy named Clarence.
It doesn’t get any better than that.
…Now them Duke Boys didn’t know much about alt-a loans, but they had a feeling they were gonna get a lesson real soon.
The Dukes of Moral Hazard?
From AP press “Last dance: Ga. town closes its only strip club”
By GREG BLUESTEIN. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jcLBcAPptvl-tHILvB0Z-hOIZLFAD930O3H80
———-
LAVONIA, Ga. (AP) — The windowless building that once housed the town’s only strip club sits empty in the middle of a sprawling gravel parking lot, made all the uglier by the scars from its final party.
This summer, a mob led by the mayor tore down gaudy billboards advertising topless dancers, put plywood over glass doors bearing a nude silhouette and purged the awnings proclaiming the incendiary name of the club — Cafe Risque — in a diesel-fueled bonfire.
Now Mayor Ralph Owens stands at the place where XXX once marked the spot, his grin widening as he takes out a set of jingling keys from his blue jeans.
“You want to take some pictures inside?” he says with a smirk, walking toward the metal building. “We own it.”
— LATER ON —-
In recent years, Lavonia’s elders learned the club’s owners wanted to sell but figured they wouldn’t want to negotiate with the city, which might have been a false assumption.
“We have no gripes with the city at all,” says Edinger, who represents Sullivan’s estate. “They helped pay my mortgage. We would have sold it to them in a heartbeat — their money spends the same as anyone else’s does.”
Owens turned to a middleman, Stacey Britt, to buy the club himself and then turn it over to the city. On July 29, he bought the club for $762,000 and sold it hours later to the city for $995,000, making a cool profit of close to a quarter of a million dollars.
“It’s just business,” says Britt, a former commissioner for a nearby county.
The city paid for its share through a bond for a water treatment upgrade, which could end up costing Lavonia $1.2 million in interest payments.
“We’re in an economic turndown and here we decide to spend $1 million. Was that the best use of funds?” shrugs Fesperman. “It’s an investment, and it’s something we had to do.
————–
How about that for a money making strategy? Buy a place saying you want it for one thing and instead open a strip joint and get the outraged politicians in the town to buy you out !!! Literally, ‘Tit for Tat’.
“You can fool Lavonians once, but now they’re certain another Cafe Risque won’t open without their blessing.
“It was a disgrace, it was embarrassing,” says LeCroy. “It’s the best money this town has ever spent. Whatever it took to get rid of it, we’ll make it back. It’s just money.”
I’ll take to ‘tats’ to go!!! Did Cafe Risque have a drive-up window???? Where you could get sudden service….errrr serviced suddenly!!!!