September 8, 2008

Bits Bucket For September 8, 2008

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Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-09-08 07:09:41

Reality… vs …It’s contained now babeeeeeeeeeeeee!

National average family income = $50,750 vs National average new home = 3,225 sq ft :-)

“You’ve got to try and separate this GSE deal and what’s going on with the banks (shares) from what’s going on in the economy. That’s not changed because of what has happened with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac,” said Kenneth Broux, financial markets economist at Lloyds TSB in London.

China and Japan hail U.S. mortgage rescue as doubts linger:

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousiv/idUSN0527106320080908?pageNumber=3&virtualBrandChannel=0

“The Treasury took $1 billion in preferred senior stock in each company, but its equity stake could reach as much as $100 billion in each.”

Is that what they mean by 100 to 1 “leverage”? ;-)

Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 09:30:31

Yep.

And here’s more good news that you can use - not.

Forbes

Market Scan
Banks Burned By Bailout
Maurna Desmond, 09.08.08, 11:10 AM ET

Fannie and Freddie were thrown a government lifeline over the weekend but several regional banks with sizeable equity stakes in the two firms won’t be so lucky…

…The losers in the GSE bailout are clear, but the winners are harder to identify. Ladenburg Thalmann analyst Dick Bove said in a note to investors that Bank of America (nyse: BAC - news - people ) is “clearly” the “single largest beneficiary of these events.” He said the company’s acquisition of Countrywide Financial “now appears to have been a stroke of brilliance” because “it already has the technology to replace the GSEs.” …(cont’d)

Unbelievable.
Leigh

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/09/08/bank-gse-exposure-markets-equity-md_0908markets16.html

 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 09:43:11

And it keeps getting better!

MarketWatch

National Multi Housing Council Statement on Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac Takeover

WASHINGTON, Sept 08, 2008 /PRNewswire-USNewswire via COMTEX/ — Doug Bibby, President of the National Multi Housing Council (NMHC), issued the following statement concerning the Treasury Department’s plan to put Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac into conservatorship…

…Based in Washington, D.C., NMHC is a national association representing the interests of the larger and most prominent apartment firms in the U.S. NMHC’s members are the principal officers of firms engaged in all aspects of the apartment industry, including ownership, development, management and financing. NMHC advocates on behalf of rental housing, conducts apartment-related research, encourages the exchange of strategic business information, and promotes the desirability of apartment living. Nearly one-third of Americans rent their housing, and over 14 percent live in a rental apartment. For more information, contact NMHC at 202/974-2300, e-mail the Council at info@nmhc.org, or visit NMHC’s web site at http://www.nmhc.org.

Everyone wants a piece of the pie.
Leigh

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 21:48:35

“National average family income = $50,750 vs
National average new home = 3,225 sq ft”

PV of traditional 30-yr fixed loan @6% interest, based on traditional 28% of $50,750 = just under $200K

Price per square foot if average family buys average new home at price implied by this example:

$200,000/3,225 = $62 /sq ft

Does that sound about right?

Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-09-09 09:37:54

What a horrible concept - affordable housing!

Quick, we need taxpayer-backed toxic loans, stat! Gotta keep the Bubble inflated!

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 07:11:30

Fred and Fan
Went up the hill
To fetch a pale looking backstop.
Fred fell down
And broke his crown
And Fan came tumbling after.

Up Fred got
And Hank did trot
As fast as he could caper
Went to Fed
And plastered his head
With speeches and bad paper.

Comment by Tim
2008-09-08 07:20:07

As more and more ppl lose their jobs, it’s very important that we continue to keep housing unaffordable and not let market forces correct egregious deviations from the mean. One has to wonder if they are intentionally trying to run this Country into the ground. No one can be this stupid, can they?

Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-09-08 07:24:52

Never underestimate the Fed.
They can usually make anything worse.

Comment by arizonadude
2008-09-08 07:39:44

Job alert!!!!

For those realtors looking for work the feds are looking for qualified people who can operate a printing press.According to the govt business is booming.Qualified applicants need only apply.

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Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 08:53:27

You know Dude, you might be on to something there…

Won’t Uncle Buck need mortgage/loan brokers to help them sort through the loan packages (once they’re unwound)?

And then assign them to realtors to sell if not savageable?

Reaching for another aspirin.
Leigh

 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-09-08 08:22:03

1933 - 300 basis points to the upside= great depression
all because gold was being drawn down

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Comment by hd74man
2008-09-08 16:30:54

RE: 1933 - 300 basis points to the upside= great depression

‘29….it’s here!

http://benbittrolff.blogspot.com/2008/09/gaaawdammit-paulson-now-youve-done-us.html

 
 
 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-09-08 07:36:15

I do not wonder, I know they are intentionally running this country into the ground. Put yourself in their shoes… they get more power as a result of all of this. They already have all the money they can print.

It is a slow process of making the “majority” think the government is acting to “save them”.

If you were the government and wanted to take control of the majority of housing then you would need to take over F&F. To take over F&F you first need to ensure that they fail by creating a credit bubble.

Now that they control F&F the government will gain control of a sizable percentage of US real estate.

Those in power got there by knowing how things work and leveraging and encouraging the ignorance of the masses.

Comment by reuven
2008-09-08 07:53:42

It’s a losing battle. Most Americans see declining house prices as a bad thing, so politicians pander to them. People like me, a 100% paid-up homeowner who would welcome another 50% decline, are a tiny minority and don’t count.

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Comment by packman
2008-09-08 08:05:11

Spot on VTD.

When the cows start getting wise to the path to the slaughterhouse - just make it more like a maze, and then smile as you “lead them to safety”. This is the role of the PTB. And I’m not just talking about “the government”. Government is just one of the means to the end.

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Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-08 08:33:43

I do not wonder, I know they are intentionally running this country into the ground. Put yourself in their shoes… they get more power as a result of all of this. They already have all the money they can print.

Ding, ding, ding!

In order to be oligarchs they need to “get rid of” the US and its constitution. Once that is done they can carve up the country in a bunch of Mexicos, and bring them all together under a loose union.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-09-09 09:43:16

Bingo.

And then they shall decide who gets a house and who doesn’t. Oh, you’re a saver? Well, that means you’re dangerous - you are guilty of thoughtcrime since you are not spending beyond your means. You probably have notions of freedom and personal responsibility - back to the ghetto-apartments with you! Ah, but the spenders - they’ll get the biggest house we can give them (at the expense of the savers, of course) since that means they’ll work more hours, be less likely to leave their jobs (because the McMansion millstone around their neck) and will spend plenty of money keeping up with the Jones by purchasing junk to fill their McMansion.

It all makes sense!

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Comment by samk
2008-09-08 07:52:13

from despair.com:

Government - If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions.

Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 07:54:43

Kinda like their solution to terrorism?

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Comment by JRinUT
2008-09-08 09:27:11

Good way to de-rail a decent thread…

 
Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 09:39:33

The last time I heard our govt is spending a projected trillion $$$ on the so called war on terror. Is spending a trillion $$ on a couple hundred street thugs acceptable to you?

 
 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-08 08:07:45

“One has to wonder if they are intentionally trying to run this Country into the ground. No one can be this stupid, can they?”

I don’t think it’s the country they’re trying to save.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-09-08 08:49:20

I don’t think it’s the country they’re trying to save.

Right-o.

Country First, my arse.

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Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 09:31:55

Cheesy sloganeering is all they have to campaign on. Their record is the last thing they want to discuss.

 
Comment by AppleEye
2008-09-08 13:38:16

All one can do is “hope” for “change.”

What we need is a 1-year US Senate “veteran,” and Joe Biden.

That’s “change we can believe in.”

 
Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 14:16:27

Isn’t it odd that Geritol Johnny and the Vegas showgirl mentioned reform 57 times last week.

You’re right Apple… You can only hope for change in their case.

 
Comment by Earl The Vagabond
2008-09-09 06:19:53

Once for each state… ;)

 
 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 08:15:44

I know no one outside of this blog who thinks this is a bad idea. It’s maddening, really. Even the reporter on CNN last night said something like it was being done - and I paraphrase - because holding up house prices was important.

My lightbulb moment happened about 4 years ago, as it did for most on HBB. Why is this so hard to get for “the others”?

Comment by Skip
2008-09-08 11:26:12

They hate to think that they may not be as “rich” as they were 24 months ago.

The problem is, they don’t understand that was all phantom money.

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Comment by wittbelle
2008-09-08 15:13:52

You had me at, “they hate to think.”

 
 
Comment by nhz
2008-09-08 12:28:27

even over here in the Netherlands the government propaganda channel (evening news) is cheering the GSE takeover: credit crunch problem solved!

Of course it helps that the pesky euro went down another 3% today, that should help the big boys like AEDS and Mercedes make some more profit on their US sales ;-(
The ECB decided to disregard inflation long ago, so why worry about a crashing euro currency, everything looks good today!

at least it’s a warning for things to come here, we will have our own version of this GSE bailout in a few years, no doubt about it.

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Comment by mikey
2008-09-08 08:21:39

You KNOW that this once Great Nation is in terrible, terrible trouble when it’s economic engine is House Fiipping and the clown mechanics down at NAR and the Fed can’t get the damned thing Off the Ground :)

 
Comment by neuromance
2008-09-08 18:34:09

As more and more ppl lose their jobs, it’s very important that we continue to keep housing unaffordable and not let market forces correct egregious deviations from the mean.

High property values means more money in the coffers of government. More money for politicians to do with what they wish. And that’s very, very important to them.

Also, regarding the government actions: I seem to recall some astute official said that the government could aid in the “Orderly unwinding” of a lot of leverage. What this means of course is that the big players will be paid first, and the rest will be left to hang.

Additionally, I wonder how inflationary it is to take on this kind of debt. “Inflation. The Stealth Tax.”

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2008-09-08 07:23:25

I was pretty disgusted by Hank’s little “speech” on how we just have to suck it up because these institutions can’t be allowed to go under and what that would do to the economy. I think I’ll need stronger blood pressure medication.

Even worse, I believed he thanked the CEOs for staying on during the transition period. That’s like discovering your babysitter is a child molester and having them stay on to train the new sitter.

Comment by Blano
2008-09-08 07:26:34

How do you like those CEO’s estimated going away pay packages, Palmy?? I don’t see any perp walks in their future, sadly.

 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-09-08 07:26:50

Child molester…given who will be worse off forever when money is borrowed to pay for this, an apt analogy.

 
Comment by Tim
2008-09-08 07:28:40

I actually wouldn’t mind the take over if the goal was the opposite of the one they expressed because I do think a failure would be a problem. Now if they said we are taking them over with the aim of tightening lending standards to get us back to the historical mean, and as part of that are creating a program to get those in default foreclosed on quickly and efficiently so that we can get ppl out of unaffordable housing into affordable housing and help get this Country back on track, I would be in favor of it. I would even support some bank assistance if this was the goal.

Comment by polly
2008-09-08 08:01:38

Bravo.

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Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-09-08 08:24:04

how about take over to chop and sell- maybe we can get back to free markets someday
like 1912

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Comment by patient renter
2008-09-08 10:29:41

1912, exactly.

 
Comment by Skip
2008-09-08 11:27:51

1912? Damn, that was right before the Great War…

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2008-09-08 15:14:25

Agree 100%, Tim. Well said.

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Comment by rms
2008-09-08 07:28:59

“Even worse, I believed he thanked the CEOs for staying on during the transition period.”

Metastasis?

 
Comment by Bad Chile
2008-09-08 07:31:24

You know what gets me?

I’ve been real good this year. Eating well, not too much beer, exercise. Trying to get off my blood pressure medication.

My annual physical is today.

Pfffft.

Comment by dude
2008-09-08 14:12:56

Normal day for me? 125/75
Today? 155/90

I guess I let events get to me too much, or maybe my blood pressure reflects my book.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 16:32:34

Dude — I am having a bad day, too, book notwithstanding. I feel like the financial world as we know it just ended, and most folks just shrug.

 
Comment by dude
2008-09-08 17:11:43

You and I both just need to take the red pill and get on with the waking dream, I guess.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 14:25:09

I feel your pain. Did that “fun” thing last week.

Only it wasn’t an annual physical. Last saw a doctor for such a thing when Mr. Clinton was still President.

Current doctor didn’t find any problems, but…

…they don’t recommend such long intervals between visits.

Looks like Slim’s gonna have to get with the program.

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Comment by SDGreg
2008-09-08 07:50:09

“Even worse, I believed he thanked the CEOs for staying on during the transition period. That’s like discovering your babysitter is a child molester and having them stay on to train the new sitter.”

…before moving on to be the new teacher at your kid’s elementary school.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-09-08 11:50:00

“Even worse, I believed he thanked the CEOs for staying on during the transition period. That’s like discovering your babysitter is a child molester and having them stay on to train the new sitter.”

A great analogy. Furthermore, they’ll hire another chief who is equally corrupt. It’s all just a game of musical chairs. No different than the handling of the child molester priests in the catholic church. Just send ‘em to a new venue, and pretend nothing happened. There is no accountability in this country. It’s morally bankrupt.

 
 
Comment by Houstonstan
2008-09-08 07:56:10

Along those lines:-

Old McPaulson had a fan, E-i-e-i-oh.
And on that fan, he had some sheeple, E-i-e-i-oh,
they went “Bailout here, Bailout there, Here a bail, there a bail, everywhere a bailout”
Old McPaulson had a fan, E-i-e-i-oh.

Old McPaulson had a fan, E-i-e-i-oh.
And on that fan, he had some headless chickens, E-i-e-i-oh,
they went “Nationalize here, Nationalize there, Here a Nat, there a Nat, everywhere a Nat Nat”
Old McPaulson had a fan, E-i-e-i-oh.

Old McPaulson had a fan, E-i-e-i-oh.
And on that fan, he had some Markey Bulls, E-i-e-i-oh,
they went “Buy stock here, Buy stock there, Here a Buy, there a Buyt, everywhere a Buy Buy”
Old McPaulson had a fan, E-i-e-i-oh.

 
 
Comment by Xpovos
2008-09-08 07:27:50

I haven’t posted for a while, but I’m still reading, and yesterday’s Bits Bucket was just what the doctor ordered for me. Anytime I think this market is ‘just’ a little off kilter, I can always count on the level heads here to remind me just how bad this can really get.

The mainstream news is on this as a good thing, and pointing out the lower mortgage rates this will mean. That’s short-sighted, of course.

So, who’s got a guess as to when the mortgage rates will revert to 6%+ and continue on their way up as warranted by the risks?

Comment by John Fontain
2008-09-08 07:51:42

This quote is on the front page of CNN.com:

“CNNMoney.com reports rates could drop by 1 percentage point from the stubbornly-high 6.39 percent for a 30-year fixed rate mortgage.”

Since when was a mid-six percent mortgage rate considered “stubbornly-high?” Isn’t that well below the long-term historic average rate? Is it just me or is the media in some alternative bizarro world?

Comment by Blano
2008-09-08 07:55:10

Some dude on CNBC this morning said that a 1% drop in rates will be the difference between buying and not buying a house for a lot of people. Seems to me if they shouldn’t buy at x%, does x + 1 really make any difference?? I just don’t see it.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 08:04:54

I’ve watched a lot of bubbles, and they all end the same way, as far as involvement by the public is concerned…

This is the way it works:

Heat of the bubble: Can’t get enough

Post-bubble partum: Couldn’t be less interested

We could go down to 0% loans on homes and what difference would it make to the prole that has to come up with a 20% down payment?

Zero!

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Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-08 08:24:38

I’m with you guys.

That 1% interest doesn’t get anyone their lost job back or make up for the increase in costs of insurance, heat, food, and fuel.

It also doesn’t help them on the car payment(s) they’re upside down on.

And it doesn’t help them with the kid’s escalating college costs.

The 1% might move some to the buy side but fear is spreading.

 
Comment by MEaston
2008-09-08 09:17:32

Bingo
Two ways to improve the housing situation
1. Increase wages greater than inflation
- Large tax breaks for the middle class at the expense of the elite
- Gov works programs paid for by taxes on the elite
- War paid for by taxes on the elite.

Any of these programs will fail if paid for with printed cash as inflation will eat away at any raise.

2. Import a lot of rich foreigners.

Cutting the interest rate will increase inflation for food gas ect. Until I see wages go up housing will continue to fall. This may accelerate the housing collapse for lower priced homes.

 
 
Comment by Steve W
2008-09-08 08:15:06

Baloney to the dude from CNBC. It still doesn’t change the fact that a purchaser of a 300K house is still gonna have a big monthly bill, whether it’s 5.25 or 6.25.

It’s not going to stop the declines.

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Comment by CrookCounty
2008-09-08 13:41:38

Buying a House is buying a prison tax cell (outsize house prices bring outsize tax collections), even doubly bad as neighborhoods become partially abandoned, boarded up as vandalism and theft creep in. There’s nobody to lend, no money to be lent, no qualified lenders to borrow. If people don’t want to lend to unqualified borrowers at today’s interest rates, why would they lend with even lower rates tomorrow? Government budgets are going to be thrashed. Consumer spending will be slashed. And too expensive to employ jobs will be trashed.

Expect Detroitification expansion across large swathes of the US. Just wait until panic selling hits. Just wait until desperation to stop 6 figure bleeding sets in. These are peoples’ “retirement nest eggs”. These are other peoples’ “investment capital”. Who’s more stupid than the banks that are starting to unload at whatever price they can get? Regular Joe and Jane Public. It’s funny that some people are claiming that the “little guy” is going to be smarter and “win” by holding out.

Keep in mind that these “foreclosures” aren’t being bought by people planning to live long term in those houses. A “For Sale” sign imagined being taken down because the bank trades the foreclosure to some investors is a total illusion. These houses are still for sale. Banks and investors will cut their losses harder and quicker than the rest of the public. The rest of the public holding houses but wanting to sell for a “good price” has retreated into disbelief, waiting for recovery, and most of them will end up chasing housing prices down to the bottom once the number of sales increase out of desperation, as opposed to drying up out of shock. The available supply is far greater than it appears.

These people holding out are competing against the same supply (which is a hidden mountain) at lower and lower prices, with miles to go before real demand sales are in sight, and they don’t have a clue.

 
 
Comment by BubbleViewer
2008-09-08 09:01:38

In Japan, rates by their national housing agency were in the 2%-2.5% range in the mid-90s and stayed there as long as I was there, until 2000. I knew some young people who bought, but it wasn’t like it turned their real estate market around. Nope. Continued to languish for another 8-10 years.

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Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 07:59:47

yahhhh…… errr yawwwwwwn… As if 1% is going to make a dent in the mushrooming inventory.

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-09-08 07:59:53

That’s been a high rate for all or most of my “potential house buying” years. I’m 32.

Comment by WhatOnceWas
2008-09-08 10:45:38

They were just commenting on that on CNBC, what diference does the spread make when banks won’t even lend to people with great credit, and a down payment ?

—-
Also on the realtycheck segment interviewing a realtor in stockton…doesn’t matter, can’t sell what they have, banks aren’t even foreclosing because they don’t want to show the declines on their books.” .It will be getting worse”

great chart here on the coming resets..

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26529207

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Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 09:11:28

HSBC cuts its mortgage rates
40 minutes ago

Snips…

HSBC became the latest lender to slash its rates as competition continued to increase in the mortgage market.

“For such a significant proportion of mortgage providers to drop their rates underlines an industry wide recognition that rates were too high.

“Sadly, as is so often the case though, the good news is restricted to customers with a spotless credit rating and a large deposit - most commonly around the 25% mark.”

She added that lenders were cherry picking which customer to offer the lowest rates to, further widening the gap between the “haves” and the “have nots” in the UK.

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5iDNhNLru21I7XNgzFxWxx5AUD-OQ

Comment by nhz
2008-09-08 12:35:12

but in the rest of Europe, like Netherlands, you can still get 8.5-10x income, no-money-down loans … anyone can buy a home, especially those who don’t have any money to put at risk. We still have a long way to go. With a global credit market, its unbelievable that this is still possible but it is :(

also, in ‘crashing’ EU markets like Spain ‘(as I’m told by relatives from over there) prices are still holding up really well for now in most areas. Sales numbers are down strongly, but valuations remain sky-high for now.

 
 
Comment by patient renter
2008-09-08 10:32:01

The mainstream news is on this as a good thing, and pointing out the lower mortgage rates this will mean.

Yep. In the delusional thinking of the media, if the “government” (having no relation whatsoever to taxpayers) decided to start handing out wads of free money in the streets, they’d tout it as a good thing.

The media is worthless.

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 07:31:27

Bloomberg

Fannie, Freddie Credit-Default Swaps May Be Settled (Update3)

Snips…

Thirteen “major” dealers of credit-default swaps agreed “unanimously” that the rescue constitutes a credit event triggering payment or delivery of the companies’ bonds, the International Swaps and Derivatives Association said in a memo obtained by Bloomberg News today. Market makers for the privately traded contracts will discuss how to settle them in a conference call at 11 a.m. in New York, the document said.

“This is a big deal,” said Sarah Percy-Dove, head of credit research at Colonial First State Global Asset Management in Sydney. “The market is not experienced at settling a credit event for a name of this size, so it is a bit of an unknown.”

Under the U.S. plan, the Treasury will get $1 billion of senior preferred stock in coming days, with warrants representing ownership stakes of 79.9 percent of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The government will receive annual interest of 10 percent on its stake…(cont’d)

Second in line for monies are Preferred then common holders.

This will end well.

Pass the popcorn Neil - unwinding CDOs -

Leigh

Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 07:53:36

This is a real knee-slapper.

Don’t flame the messenger! (Ducks under keyboard).

Bloomberg
By Gregory Mott

Dodd Plans Senate Hearing on Fannie, Freddie Takeover (Update1)

Snips…

Sept. 8 (Bloomberg) — U.S. Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said he will hold hearings to examine the steps leading to the federal government’s takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac…

…“Why weren’t we doing more, why did we wait almost a year before there any significant steps taken to try to deal with this problem?” Dodd asked. “I have a lot of questions about where was the administration over the last eight years.” (Cont’d)

I KNOW!

Senator Chris Dodd (D-CT), Chairman of the Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs.

Pass the aspirin.
Leigh

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 07:57:37
Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 08:34:13

Thanks Alad :)

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 09:03:55

For best results, bury the empty bottle upside-down in your backyard.

 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 08:22:15

I’m feeling the need for something much stronger than aspirin.

Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 08:35:54

Leigh hands Slim sparkly shiny jellybeans.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 10:06:16

To which Slim say, “Thank you very much. I’m feeling better already.”

 
 
Comment by grubner
2008-09-08 08:45:40

I have a rule that I don’t crack open the Scotch until after the first frost. Last night, after a few hours of obsessive compulsive reading about fraudy and phony I decided that I didn’t need to play by no stinking rules either. I have a hangover now and am in a very grumpy mood. I’m going to try and stay sober until sundown but I can’t make any guarantees. Winston Churchill used to refer to his bouts of depression as his “black dog”. Well I feel a great big black dog coming on. Do he bite?

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 08:48:27

Can you at least make an implicit guarantee?

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-08 11:43:08

“Winston Churchill used to refer to his bouts of depression as his “black dog”. Well I feel a great big black dog coming on”

Hope you feel better, grubner and Ouro who sometimes reports similar feelings. I’ve played with the black dog off and on the last several years reading these stories and swallowing a reality which was not how I originally saw the world. (Mom, you lyin’…..) LOL

But somehow the last couple months, I’ve felt lighter. My family and I have gotten out and enjoyed people and places in a way we haven’t done for a long, long time. Somehow strangers appear to need a smile or even a shared laugh again. Friends that were once very busy now seem eager to reconnect. It also feels awesome that doing what we love and do well is good enough again. A blow out expediture is no longer expected.

The pinched purse strings don’t mean so much to me. I’m just happy to hear let-loose unadulterated laughter at my table again. :) It’s about time!

 
 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-09-08 08:49:20

Pot calling the kettle black . Senator Dodds , what were you doing especially since you were in a power position to stop the fraud market and cut the losses . I guess your friend Mozillo had not unloaded his stock position yet .

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-09-08 13:52:06

““Why weren’t we doing more, why did we wait almost a year before there any significant steps taken to try to deal with this problem?” Dodd asked.”

Yes, why weren’t you doing more you hypocritical fat, lazy toad? Too busy counting the profits on your speculative homes purchased with “preferred” financing? F*** you Dodd. I’ve got my pitchfork, lantern, and dog by my side.

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-09-08 08:10:47

Common shares in Fanny and Freddie are now headed toward Pennystockland.

Paulson indulges in first-rate Sports Clichespeak, including incongruous use of the second person:

“This is not something you are happy about,” Paulson said, but “It was better than the next best alternative.”

Paulson just goes out and tries to give 110% each day, I guess.

 
Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 08:43:53

I tried to post this as the biggest problem from the actions last night. It never showed up.

$1.47 Trillion Credit Default swaps got triggered. No great shakes

However, By these CDS getting triggered another 20Trillion in other CDS gets triggered.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 08:59:38
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 09:02:10

I know!

Wonder when they’ll post the 11:00am conference call CDS/O meeting transcripts (as if)?

I need a hug — mommeeeeee.
Leigh

Comment by MEaston
2008-09-08 09:21:24

Who wants to make a pool as to what Hank Paulsons next job will be, and how much he will get paid. I’m guessing GS again and he will be one of the top 5 highest paid executives.

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Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 09:56:31

Yeah. In early August, he said he wouldn’t stay on for the next administration and his job ends Jan 10, 2009!

This will end well.

Leigh

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-09-08 17:53:04

As. If.

 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-09-08 09:07:43

Hoz, can you elaborate on this? What other CDSs get triggered as a result?

———————
However, By these CDS getting triggered another 20Trillion in other CDS gets triggered.

 
Comment by polly
2008-09-08 09:09:38

What debentures were those CDS’s on, hoz? Do you know? Was it a few particular companies? Or did people just key their CDS’s to a trigger event at the GSE’s? Why use GSEs as a trigger event if the underlying bond was on a different company?

Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 10:12:43

Polly,

See second or third post above.

Warning - take an aspirin first.

Leigh

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Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 10:14:07

Er…should say see second or third post from the TOP.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by jetson_boy
2008-09-08 07:32:41

Freddie and Fannie should have been allowed to fail. They were traded companies, and as such should have been exposed to the same risks as any other public corporation. But the deed is done and now 50% of the mortgages in the US are now under the control of the US government.

So here’s my thoughts. If any good could be gleaned from this, its that if the US government is now going to control 50% of the mortgages, then perhaps it is in their best interests to engineer a lending system that more closely ties affordability to actual incomes. This will likely come in the form of stricter loan requirements such as providing loans to buyers with incomes that support the price. If such a system were setup with Freddie and Fannie, this could over time remove much of the speculative, purely investment nature of housing. That’s just my guess. Both of these companies were grossly mis-managed over the years. Perhaps the US will clean house.

Comment by Tim
2008-09-08 07:36:03

The stronger the financial interest in the results, the cleaner the house. I have a feeling not even the toilets will be flushed anymore.

Comment by SDGreg
2008-09-08 07:46:35

“The stronger the financial interest in the results, the cleaner the house. I have a feeling not even the toilets will be flushed anymore.”

But when they are, guess who’s the sewage treatment plant?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 08:23:24

The sewage treatment plant will be fueled by our tax dollars.

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-09-08 12:44:55

No guessing required: the sewage pipe runs straight into the US Treasury.

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Comment by realestateskeptic
2008-09-08 07:47:45

Fannie and Freddie did fail. The Gov’t always gave an “implied” back stop as mortgage guarantors as they were GSE’s. For better or worse, this was decided back they were formed, never believing the guarantee would be needed. All the government did was step up to the plate and take the implied guarantee to an actual guarantee. If they had walked away from that commitment the implications would have be huge. At least this debt has some collateral (all of the r/e), US treasuries just have the US gov’t word behind them… As I understand the limited info I have seen about the details, the common shareholders are only going to get something if/when/after the government gets all of its money back and with interest, so they are basically toast. Preferred will do somewhat better, but still has some risk. The preferred holders are US and foreign Banks and foreign govt’s, so if they got wiped out, it would have cascaded thru the system in very bad ways. I am not really in favor of this, but as I see it the government was already on the hook for guaranteeing these mortgages anyway and at least now they can try to manage the losses they were liable for anyway????? Allowing the common shareholders to lose does take some of the moral hazard argument away….

Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 07:56:20

Hey skeptic… I spent some time in your neck of the woods a couple weeks ago. The number of for sale signs and fantasy prices is hilarious…. and the word on the street is “bbbbbbbbbut, prices aren’t falling that much”…..

Dream on.

Comment by realestateskeptic
2008-09-08 09:05:28

I am thinking you are writing about our vacation cottage over in NY? They are still a little delusional, but the stats continue to show that the area is still not showing huge losses. Look at the stats for Warren County, not great but not bubble land, yet….

http://www.nysar.com/consumers/stats.asp

The thing is with no real economy to speak of, their area is different, just not in the way they think…. From what I can see, only very high end or lower end lake front or lake access property is moving. The usual acreage with moderately maintained average dwelling is a dime a dozen and dead in the water. The for sale sign do seem to be self-propagating.

Don’t know if you took the Northway, but there is a very ugly, fairly large development just to the East of 87 that you can see near the Malta Exit. It is yellow, big , ugly and practically on the Northway, I would NOT want to be that builder or Bank, everything that is wrong with the bubble in one neat, not so little package.

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Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 10:12:31

Skeptic …… Warren isn’t bubbleland? You must be joking. Prices quadrupled since 1999 so I’m not sure if we’re talking about the same state.

The big yellow turd you speak of is in the town of Wilton just north of exist 15. There is another bubble turd across from SPAC built during the last runup circa mid 1980’s. They film episodes of Cops there now.

 
 
 
 
Comment by hd74man
2008-09-08 07:54:11

RE: it is in their best interests to engineer a lending system that more closely ties affordability to actual incomes. This will likely come in the form of stricter loan requirements such as providing loans to buyers with incomes that support the price.

Like FHA/HUD right?

You need to cruise by some of their foreclosure inventory and see what their finance, appraisal, and underwriting system is all about.

Comment by mrincomestream
2008-09-08 08:24:40

exactly

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 08:24:54

Trust me, you will cruise quickly away from said inventory. That is, unless you’re a glutton for punishment.

 
 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-09-08 09:09:30

a lending system that more closely ties affordability to actual incomes.

That would be too complex for the current Whitehouse administration who only knows how to spend and is out of touch with mainstreet.

 
Comment by Eudemon
2008-09-08 19:30:37

If they were public companies, LOTS of people would be headed for a frosty stay in the clink.

*Sigh*…I miss the good ‘ole days of Enron and prison terms.

Too bad the media doesn’t call for the heads at Fannie & Freddie. Then again, F&F are government entities, which the media clearly adore.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 07:34:44

“The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.”

H.L. Mencken

Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-09-08 09:19:45

And the first sign of deep trouble for any single one of us is to believe that we are uniquely immune from the tendency.

Ever notice how similar are the two sentiments, “it’s different here”, and “I’m different”?

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-09-08 10:07:42

As far as I can tell the only alternative is to not believe passionately in anything.

So, you must always be prepared to be wrong on any bet you make.

The biggest winners are those who believe passionately in the palpably true when everyone else cannot see the truth.

 
 
 
Comment by watcher
2008-09-08 07:48:06

The Federal Highway Trust Fund was declared bankrupt Friday, prompting Arizona transportation officials to delay plans for several major construction projects.

The fund, which gets part of its money from federal gasoline tax, is expected to be empty by the start of October.

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2008/09/05/20080905highwaymoney09052008-CR.html

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-09-08 07:49:24

RE: One has to wonder if they are intentionally trying to run this Country into the ground. No one can be this stupid, can they?

The US economy is 70% consumption driven.

For the last 15 years J6P has been maintaining the illusion of a static standard of living with his or her HELOC ATM.

The government is now so desperate to keep this finanical shell game afloat that they’ve nationalized the housing finance market.

But the nationalizing of the GSE’s is just the first step.

Next they will be taking control over actual foreclosure inventory.

Eventually they will pass off this inventory to deserving minorities @ subsidized payment levels, with the same bleating caveat that home ownership fosters higher confidence and self esteem.

In other words all these foreclosed chucks are gonna probably get their houses back with perhaps a government check to compensate for the previous emotional upset caused by the foreclosure process due to unscrupulous lenders

They will then send over a government sanctioned “appraiser” a year later to appraise a magical $100k increase (since this was an initial distressed acquiring procedure) which then provides the means for the owners to HELOC the increase, so as to buy more Wal-Mart Chinese made shit, lotto tix, trips to the casino’s, and a set of new wheels to keep the consumption train rollin’.

Coincidentally, “the government appraiser” will also be controlling valuation levels wich is really the name of game.

1984 here we are.

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-09-08 09:18:18

hd74man ….Yep, I see it exactly the way you do . Fake values here we come .

 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-09-08 09:42:53

Yup. Home mortgages are now an explicit tool of social policy, and will be directly controlled by the CONgress. Not that it’s that different than what was going on before, but now it’s explicit: “vote for me, and you’ll get a cheap mortgage to buy a house you cannot afford.”

 
Comment by Jon
2008-09-08 09:44:57

When you finance public political campaigns with private monies, expect public monies to flow to private pockets.

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-09-08 10:15:50

When you give private power over public goods, expect public goods to flow into private hands.

In other words, we cannot elect representatives with a “blank check” while they are in office via secret ballots. Only with an enforceable contract with stiff penalties for breaching said contract signed between the candidate and the individuals delegating their authority and resources to him can we prevent theft from the public.

Once someone is elected they are free to make what ever decisions they can get away with regardless of campaign promises.

Who in their right mind would delegate complete authority over their personal wealth to ANYONE without a detailed and explicit contract on what they may or may not do with your wealth. Clearly no one would be so foolish, yet this is exactly what happens when people mistake “voting” for “delegating authority”.

The last thing I want is to be taxed in order to fund McShame and Obamanataion’s propaganda machines.

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-09-08 10:53:34

Also.. there is no such thing as “public monies” all money is private and any “public” money must first be stolen by the government.

Your idea of “public funded” campaigns is really just “private funded” campaigns with no say in where *your* funding goes.

If you wish to control spending spending of private individuals then you are a tyrant.

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Comment by Jon
2008-09-08 13:00:24

Things are only “private” with the consent of your fellow citizens enforced through the threat of violence by the government.

The government is the enforcer of contracts. There can never be a guarantee that a contract will be enforced when the other end is the enforcer.

Politicians do make a contract with those who have the funds to get them elected. Those are the contracts that will be honored. The rest of us will get lies and broken promises.

It has always, and will always be that way as long as we are not willing to be “taxed in order to fund McShame and Obamanataion’s propaganda machines.”

 
 
 
 
Comment by patient renter
2008-09-08 15:20:23

Please, don’t give the government any more ideas.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 07:49:41

I can see China’s firm hand guiding us now…

Until the olympics came and went, their hands were tied up on account of not wanting to lose face.

Now, they just don’t want to lose face value~

Comment by watcher
2008-09-08 07:59:29

Lose face value?

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 08:43:50

If we were to purposefully devalue our own currency against the rest of the world, it’s great in the short-term, as we say sayonara to our debts, as they shrink on account of hyper-inflation…

But there’s hell to pay in the future.

Imagine just the opposite of cheap Chinese imports?

$7.99 fold-up cloth and metal chairs f.o.b. Shanghai, that are suddenly $24.99, then $49.99, then $99.99?

Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-09-08 09:24:00

We’d start making them ourselves again, in the good ol’ US of A, not necessarily a bad thing at all…

And yeah, we’d end up consuming a lot less of them because they would still be more expensive than today’s Wal-mart specials. Again, not necessarily a bad thing, greatly reduced material consumption, that is.

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Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-09-08 10:25:31

With what oil / resources would we be building those goods with? American “consumers” would not have any real resources to trade for metals, gas, etc and so the local producers of raw materials would ship them out of the country instead of to local chair making businesses.

In this scenario you need to have real wealth, not paper wealth. The average Joe will not have real wealth and will be starving because the average company will not have any real wealth to pay the average Joe.

If you live in a society where only 1% have the real wealth to afford electricity then the burden of the infrastructure falls on that 1% which will push the $/KWH through the roof. First storm to come through would knock out power for a long time.

Hyperinflation will devastate the economy for at least 2 years and possibly longer if we get our own Hitler in the office. At this point all discussion of “increased local manufacturing” is of little meaning.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 07:53:31

BFD…. The only thing salvaged in the F&F drama is the recycle mechanism to keep the flow of $$$ coming from China and even with that I’m skeptical. China needs our $$$ as much as we them to keep buying our shitty paper.

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-09-08 07:54:47

There seems to be a lot of confidence in the BB yesterday that F&F will “go away”. I want to be clear about my position that while F&F might go away in form, the substantive issue is whether the same operations continue (or even expand) as a dept of the govt. Whether those operations continue in form as Fannie Mae, Hammerin’ Hank’s Home Mortgage or any other name doesn’t really matter.

Haven’t multiple pols stated multiple times that decreasing house prices (which would be the result of tightened lending standards) is a bad thing? Doesn’t that imply that one of their goals is to try to prop up housing (i.e. “fix” the “housing crisis”)?

If those are true, I don’t see uncle sam tightening lending standards, in fact I see them making more money available, not less. It’s already been stated that they are prepared to give both maes $100 billion each.

Given that Hank P earlier stated he needed a blank check which would not be needed and which he has now used, if he now says they are prepared to hand over 100B, then you can rest assured every bit of that will go into those organizations, and likely more. So that’s a 200B increase right off the bat you can count on.

One Yahoo article is also saying that the govt intends to decrease the holdings of these organizations until they reach 500B combined. Where are those holding going to go? Any bets on whether they are sold in the market at FMV or moved to another govt balance sheet? Again, the issue of form vs. substance. What are they really going to do?

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-09-08 08:57:54

I agree with your take blueprint . My guess is a re-spiking of punch
bowl to stimulate housing market and that would entail low down payment loans .

Comment by Lisa
2008-09-08 09:33:33

“I agree with your take blueprint . My guess is a re-spiking of punch bowl to stimulate housing market and that would entail low down payment loans.”

Right now 3% down will get you a GSE loan, but the difference is you have to document you can afford to carry 97% of the purchase price + interest.

I think as long as income documentation, income to debt ratios, etc. remain hallmarks of F&F loans, prices will still crash. Not too many people can genuinely qualify for bubble home prices without bubble financing.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2008-09-08 09:37:48

They will all be 3.5% downpayments, just like an FHA loan.

 
 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-08 08:03:03

Good news! They just announced on CNBC that it’s the beginning of the end of the credit crunch!

The US taxpayer sure is powerful.

Comment by nhz
2008-09-08 12:41:23

also announced on Dutch Ministry of Truth channels (TV evening news), makes it even more credible :)

 
 
Comment by Tweedle Dee
2008-09-08 08:05:47

I’m watching CNBC this morning and several times they have mentioned that they now expect mortgage rates to fall by 1%.

I don’t see why this should happen. Fannie and Freddie are now going to increase their lending standards further. They also have to reduce their mortgage portfolio by ~60%. Private banks are loathe to lend until house prices reach their bottoms.

So why should mortgage rates fall ?

Comment by polly
2008-09-08 08:13:59

They will fall because those are the rates that the GSEs will pass out. They are the federal government now. They don’t have to make money. The market discipline of having to provide a return on capital is gone. I think the estimate of how far they will fall is probably a wild guess or insider info on what Treasury thinks will goose the market.

 
Comment by Asparagus
2008-09-08 08:19:17

Overall, I don’t know why rates would fall either. I’m reading that Paulson would say that it is b/c of the stability this adds to the markets.

By my logic if the agencies will be allowed to increase their portfolio this year, but then shrink after next year, then that will mean in the next few years it will be harder to get a loan and/or rates go up, meaning home prices will be pressured downward.

I’m less apt to buy or lend if I think prices are going to have more pressure on the downside.

Comment by bluprint
2008-09-08 11:11:13

but then shrink after next year, then that will mean in the next few years it will be harder to get a loan

Unless the degree to which they “shrink” is really just moving into a different govt office. Where is the shrunk part of the portfolio going to go?

 
 
Comment by SaladSD
2008-09-08 08:23:54

Even if rates went down to 5.5%, wasn’t the rush to “buy” 3,500 sf homes based on teaser rates of 1 or 2% with no principal payment? At 5.5% folks can’t afford McMansions, they can’t even afford them at 4.5, 3.5 or 2.5%

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-08 08:39:28

The unstated goal of the PTB is to return lending standards to where they were so FBs can refinance. First time homebuyers can suck it up and fix up the crappy homes they can afford. Once the election is over, then no one will care as long as the banks are propped up.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-08 08:43:48

And this is what I fear, that they will push them down that low, inflation be damned.

 
 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 08:22:07

Aguirre Wants to Make San Diego a Foreclosure Sanctuary
Last Updated: 09-08-08 at 7:39AM

With the latest news that the federal government is taking over mortgage giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, City Attorney Mike Aguirre wants the city council to make San Diego a foreclosure sanctuary.

The resolution he is seeking would ask all lenders to stop foreclosing on certain homes. The resolution would not require lenders to comply.

If it passes, it would be the first such sanctuary measure approved in the state.

The resolution is scheduled on the council’s agenda at 2 p.m. Monday.

Rolls eyes. Good night Irene.
Leigh

http://www.cbs8.com/stories/story.139717.html

Comment by Asparagus
2008-09-08 08:33:15

I’ve just declared my apartment a tax sanctuary.

The resolution asks all governing bodies to stop taxing us. The resolution does not require governing bodies to comply.

 
Comment by cynicalgirl
2008-09-08 08:38:38

Postponing the inevitable won’t solve the problem.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-08 08:41:11

People, people…it’s an election year! Do you expect logic and realism?

 
 
Comment by octal77
2008-09-08 08:41:33


…would ask all lenders to stop foreclosing on certain homes..

I am not a legal expert, but how is it possible for a local
government to (in effect) change federal contract law?

Is there a precedent for such an action?

Comment by Lisa
2008-09-08 09:18:45

…would ask all lenders to stop foreclosing on certain homes..

Yes, they could ask. The more hairbrained the schemes are to keep FB’s in homes they couldn’t afford in the first place, the harder it will be for everyone else trying to purchase to get a mortgage. Housing still crashes.

 
Comment by Xenos
2008-09-08 10:11:07

Foreclosure law is exclusively state law, so while a municipality can’t freeze foreclosures a state certainly can. And states have done so in the past. Generally things get frozen for a few months, some borrowers negotiate workouts, and the others get foreclosed en masse once the freeze is over.

According to an attorney friend who was dealing with this stuff back in the late 80s, the Boston Herald would publish 50 pages of notices every week. Crashed the condo market to the ground where it sat dead for almost ten years. I don’t know whether, in the long run, the 6 month condo foreclosure freeze sped up the collapse of that market or if it slowed it down.

 
 
Comment by polly
2008-09-08 08:44:49

You know, it would be really funny if any city or state really tried to this for real (enforced somehow). As a government entity, the new lender will certainly not be allowed to red line certain places, so why not forbid forclosures. They have to keep lending to your citizens and you tell them they can’t forclose even if people refuse to pay.

I’m sure there is something that would prevent the no forclosure rule from being effective against the federal government, but it would take a while (levels of appeal) to work out the details. I’d actually like to see it.

This is just a request that banks refrain from forclosing so the residents have a chance to get a government refi. However long that will take. Of course, if the new lender follows the “Hope Now” model, it is likely to reduce the principle amount….wonder if the other lender will accept the payoff amount of the new loan as if it were a short sale?

Comment by Bad Chile
2008-09-08 12:44:13

Massachusetts just did it (three months), expired without much press August 1, 2008.

Of course, shortly before it expired, the Boston Globe printed an article on how foreclosures for the previous three months were less than 2007 levels…without mention of the halt on foreclosures.

Comment by polly
2008-09-08 16:53:55

The Glob actually did that? That is hysterical.

I really meant the idea of doing it permanently. You couldn’t get a case before a judge in three months, never mind all the appeals, so three months isn’t even worth going to court.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 09:08:00

Foreclosure Sank-uary?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 16:30:39

San Diego is already a foreclosure capital. Why not go for sanctuary status, in order to reward those who made bad financial decisions and screw the financially prudent?

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-08 08:27:17
Comment by Asparagus
2008-09-08 09:09:13

Great video.

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-09-08 09:25:20

RE: US Is “More Communist than China”: Jim Rogers

Just what I was saying in yesterdays Bits, which subsequently got me labeled as an “Ayran Nation nutcase”.

Comment by hd74man
2008-09-08 15:00:49

RE: The resolution he is seeking would ask all lenders to stop foreclosing on certain homes.

LMAO…A government sanctioned debt moratorium.

How about a moratorium on my car and cc payments?

I need a vacation too.

WTF, do the housing deadbeats get all the breaks!

Comment by alta
2008-09-08 18:36:33

How about a moratorium on my rent payments ?

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Comment by SaladSD
2008-09-08 15:18:59

my beef with your comment was that examples of beneficiaries of socialistic/communistic fiscal policy abound throughout every strata of our society. why limit your wrath to minorities & single moms? There’s Rich folks who tap SSI payments for their handicapped kids; loaded senior citizens who sell all their assets to put into annuities so they can qualify for Medicaid;, CEOs who get huge salaries/bonuses regardless of whether they’ve earned their keep; farm subsidies to agribusiness; no bid contracts to war profiteers. Yes, minorities and single moms are part of this hand-out machine, but they’re just the tip of the iceberg.

 
 
Comment by packman
2008-09-08 11:41:03

Sorry, but Jim Rogers has gone off the deep end.

If China is less communist than the U.S., then why won’t they let their businessmen travel to the U.S. at the same time as their families? Yes that is their policy.

I have a co-worker that they made a mistake on, not catching the fact that the family booked a tourist visa the same time as the husband taking a business trip. Sure enough, when they all got to the U.S. they bolted.

Restricting travel isn’t really one of the hallmarks of a free nation. Last I heard the U.S. didn’t have such restrictions.

There are many other examples - just read all the news reports during the Olympics.

Comment by packman
2008-09-08 11:46:20

Meant to add - yes China has gone more “capitalist” lately than they had been, and the U.S. has certainly gotten more socialist for the past say 100 years or so. But to even pretend that our paths have come close to crossing is just trying to garner attention.

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2008-09-08 13:04:34

Lets see, you cannot travel to a whole host of nations. Since when does a free man need permission to go anywhere from the government that claims to protect said freedom.

You cannot trade with a whole host of nations (Cuba, etc)

You cannot take large sums of money out of the country…

You are treated like a terrorist when you return to the country…

Yeah, we are not any different than China.

Comment by CA Guy
2008-09-08 14:32:20

VT Dan: Thanks for answering that ridiculous claim. If the USA is free, then why can’t I vacation in Cuba? Yet I can travel to communist China or Vietnam. Cuba is nothing in the global scheme. WTF? How does that make any sense? Never mind, I know the answer … China and Vietnam are willing to work for slave wages in order to provide us with cheap crap and best of all they finance our overconsumption. Free country my a$$. This whole Fannie/Freddie debacle proves that the USA has become a joke. Sad, but very true.

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Comment by Skip
2008-09-08 14:14:58

Restricting travel isn’t really one of the hallmarks of a free nation. Last I heard the U.S. didn’t have such restrictions.

You have to admit, it is getting more and more difficult to travel.

I think the requirement for US citizens to have passports to enter our country from Canada/Mexico by land will be another nail in the coffin of a free nation. Especially as non-citizens with those ‘laser passports” zip by them at immigration.

 
Comment by packman
2008-09-08 19:07:27

I never said that the U.S. was a totally free country. I’m just stating that by comparison it’s definitely more free than China.

One need only look at the stock markets for instance to note one example of the vast difference in economic freedoms. The SSE has much tighter controls on investing, with the bulk of exchanges being done by the government itself (I heard on NPR last year it was 90% - not sure if that’s true or not).

Also check out the info in the “index of economic freedoms” here:

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/index/countries.cfm

Some key points on the U.S. (regarding the “caplitalism vs. communism” argument):

[blockquote]

Investment Freedom - 80%

Foreign and domestic enterprises are legally equal, and foreign investors are not required to register with or seek approval from the federal government. Foreign investment in banking, mining, defense contracting, certain energy-related industries, fishing, shipping, communications, and aviation is restricted. The government also restricts foreign acquisitions that might impair national security. There are no controls or requirements on currency transfers, access to foreign exchange, or repatriation of profits. Purchase of real estate is unrestricted on a national level, but the purchase of agricultural land by foreign nationals or companies must be reported to the government.

Financial Freedom - 80%

The U.S. has the world’s most dynamic and developed financial markets. Reform in 1999 permitted a wider range of services and eliminated barriers to entry and barriers between commercial banks, insurance companies, and securities firms. Regulations are generally straightforward and consistent with international standards, although concerns have been raised about the intrusive nature and cost of the 2002 Sarbanes–Oxley Act. The instability of the housing market in late 2006 and ongoing concern about sub-prime lending could affect financial stability. Foreign financial institutions and domestic banks are subject to the same restrictions. There were 7,549 banking and thrift institutions in mid-2005. The Federal National Mortgage Association and Federal Home Mortgage Loan Corporation account for about half of home mortgages. Foreign participation in equities and insurance is substantial and competitive.
[/blockquote]

Same areas for China:

[blockquote]

Investment Freedom - 30%

Weak rule of law, lack of transparency, domestic favoritism, and a complex approval process remain major obstacles. Legally, foreign investment is allowed only in specific sectors. Government “encouragement” of foreign investment in certain geographic and high-value-added areas constitutes state action that could violate WTO rules. The central bank regulates foreign exchange, and the government controls investment in the stock market. There are extensive controls on foreign exchange, current transfers, and capital transactions.

Financial Freedom - 30%

China’s complex financial system is tightly controlled by the government. Roughly 35,000 financial institutions were operating in early 2006. The banking sector is the largest part of the system and is almost entirely state-owned. Four state-owned banks account for over 53 percent of assets. The state directs the allocation of credit, and the big four state-owned banks lend primarily to state-owned enterprises. Numerous foreign banks have opened branches but face burdensome regulations, though progress has accelerated since China joined the WTO. Foreign participation in capital markets is limited. A weak social security net has encouraged a competitive, market-driven insurance sector to emerge from a state-run monopoly.

[/blockquote]

 
 
 
Comment by reuven
2008-09-08 08:41:15

If you’ve just eaten your Breakfast, you may not want to see this:

http://www.dpagroundswell.org/

It’s a website to start a grass-roots campaign to “save” seller-financed DPA.

Since the IRS ruled that these programs were a scam, this is basically a website supporting a massive tax scam.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 10:03:09

You would flip if you saw the response I got from one MB after I responded to this website being passed around suggesting we must save DPA.

I basically had the same reaction you did, which is to say I retched at the sight of it.

The others saw it as a way of putting people into houses they can’t afford on loans that require them to refinance or cash out every two years. Oh, this is my interpretation of their responses. Just a bunch of crack dealers trying to keep the trade going.

Comment by reuven
2008-09-08 10:17:44

Sadly, I think no matter who gets into the White House, we’ll see these programs again. It’s a bone to throw to the minority communities.

 
 
 
Comment by Frank Hague
2008-09-08 08:45:03

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/08/opinion/08krugman.html?ref=opinion

“As the economist Irving Fisher observed way back in 1933, when highly indebted individuals and businesses get into financial trouble, they usually sell assets and use the proceeds to pay down their debt. What Fisher pointed out, however, was that such selloffs are self-defeating when everyone does it: if everyone tries to sell assets at the same time, the resulting plunge in market prices undermines debtors’ financial positions faster than debt can be paid off. So deflation in asset prices can turn into a vicious circle. And one consequence of what he called a “stampede to liquidate” is a severe economic slump.

That’s what’s happening now, with debt deflation made especially ugly by the fact that key financial players are highly leveraged — their assets were mainly bought with borrowed money. As Paul McCulley of Pimco, the bond investor, put it in a recent essay titled “The Paradox of Deleveraging,” lately just about every financial institution has been trying to reduce its leverage — but the plunge in asset values has nonetheless left these institutions with more debt relative to their assets than before.”

 
Comment by Michael Viking
2008-09-08 08:45:57

“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.”

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

Thomas Jefferson

Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-09-08 09:12:15

Since the housing boom was just a scheme and was never about long term home ownership ,re-spiking the punch bowl is going to require
really low rates and really low down payments and a let up on the prudent underwriting . The taxpayers will take the loss and risk in the final analysis .Anything to pass the losses and re-spike the housing market .

Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-08 10:36:53

That’s what happens when you give teenagers unfettered access to kegs. TOGA!!

 
 
Comment by cereal
2008-09-08 12:46:28

Don’t get me started…..

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-08 08:47:35

nasdaq is now in the red and the dow is having trouble holding onto the rally. i thought this bail-out news was going to make everything all better?

Comment by takingbets
2008-09-08 12:43:37

look at the stock markets shoot-upward in the last hour of trade! i wonder if the PPT is trying to set the stage for tomarrow?

Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 15:04:07

For the largest financial event in my lifetime, this is the best the market can do. Sell the piss out of it.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 16:28:24

Why wouldn’t the largest financial event of your and most posters’ lifetimes be accompanied by precautionary intervention in the stock market?

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Comment by takingbets
2008-09-09 04:44:00

that’s true prof. Bear, I don’t trust anyone on wallstreet. I have now included the government to that list.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by polly
2008-09-08 08:50:19

Washington Post is doing a chat with Steven Pearlstein, their finance columnist right now. I posted the link earlier along with the comment I submitted, but it appears to have violated a rule, and hasn’t shown up.

Here is the link:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/09/07/DI2008090700715.html

A lot of the questions are “what happens to the preferred stock.” Lots and lots. Some say they are from overseas. I wonder how many people are going to be outraged over this. Do the Chinese have this stock as well as the bonds?

Comment by polly
2008-09-08 11:02:00

And he didn’t take my question at all. I basically said that I was completely out of the housing market until mortgage rates and standards were being set by the market again, since I didn’t want anything to do with one where people with half my salary, bad credit and no downpayment, could be approved for purchases as large as I was comfortable with. I didn’t want to deal with that sort of demand competition in my price range.

I also asked what he thought the smaller banks that kept their loans on their books and therefore kept underwriting standards up and didn’t have massive losses leading to not being able to lend would think of this. After all, they figured they would have their chance when things started to move back to normal. Now the government is going to be competing with them directly for any loan business that makes sense.

 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-09-08 08:58:45

All that taxpayer risk for about a 1% short term boost in stock prices. Great idea. Not even the spin doctors could make the markets rejoice. My personal belief is that by continuing to highlight the housing meltdown, it scares off more housing “investors” rather than makes them feel like buying.

Realtors are still sleazy as hell. I looked at a few overpriced properties for kicks. When I showed hesitency based on a fear prices will fall further, they immediately tried to assure me no worries, prices are stabilizing but not in free fall. I then told them call we when they are in free fall because I want a deal. They were silent for a moment. Then said to me, I know a few houses that in the foreclosure process where you might be able to get them down 30% off peak. Perhaps they should make it easier on themselves and just ask what the person wants to hear before they try to spin.

Comment by Ria Rhodes
2008-09-08 09:29:32

Comment by Tim

“All that taxpayer risk for about a 1% short term boost in stock prices. Great idea.”

All that taxpayer risk a-n-d about a 1% short term boost in stock prices..

..and that’s withering away as I type.

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-08 09:00:58

Here’s what Denninger has to say, and I’m actually glad I’m not currently working and paying taxes:

“The Truth Chris (and the rest of you clowns) is that there is absolutely no reason for Americans to get up and go to work any more. Those of us who are prudent, who play by the rules, who buy our homes with solid, 30 year fixed mortgages and 20% down payments, who don’t lever ourselves up to our chins and cheat little old ladies out of every dime they have lose every time when you folks start this crap. We have our cost of living double, we have our homes pumped to insane levels and then destroyed, we lose our jobs and we lose our futures. Our children can’t afford college because your loose liquidity and money policies, which you cheer onward, cause college costs to rise to the point that our kids “graduate” with $100,000 or more in debt - a debt they can’t walk off from in bankruptcy, because you changed the laws to make that impossible. Our children are literally debt slaves and if you could get the rest of us to be that stupid we would be too.

The Truth is that Congress pulled this crap back in the 1970s and it destroyed many people in the Middle Class. I remember it and it sucked. I remember my families’ grocery bill doubling in a couple of years’ time, I remember gas prices more than doubling and I remember heating oil going up so fast that we had to finance a gas furnace replacement in order to avoid going broke one winter. You are responsible for it this time Chris - you and your cronies in Congress who gave a blank check to Paulson after he and Bernanke LIED to you. I told you he was lying and you didn’t listen.”

market-ticker dot denninger dot net

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-08 09:04:14

Haven’t been reading lately, so if anyone else already sang this song, well, just sing along again -
remember the old band called the Band? This song??

Take a load off Fannie,
take a load for free,
take a load off Fannie, and
put the load right on me.

Comment by WT Economist
2008-09-08 09:37:00

Filled out my 1040
I was feeling about half past dead.
They’ll cancel Social Security
Before the last time I lay my head.
The money went to Miss Fannie
And to her brother Fred.
Can I get my money back?
No was all they said.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-08 10:06:43

What a team - let’s head for Zep Tepi (a recording studio in Boulder). :)

 
 
Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 15:34:27

Lets try this post again,

The Band explaining Fannie Mae, “Take a Load off Fannie”
a good reminder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=712kRqri2No

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-08 16:32:09

Good one, Hoz. Gotta love youtube for stuff like this.

 
 
 
Comment by Lisa
2008-09-08 09:15:37

“Baloney to the dude from CNBC. It still doesn’t change the fact that a purchaser of a 300K house is still gonna have a big monthly bill, whether it’s 5.25 or 6.25.”

Bingo. And purchasers will now have to fully document how they can actually afford that $300K house, and make a 20% down payment or prove adequate income to carry a higher LTVR. Oh, and no car payment or credit card debt allowed, by the way. How many people have those qualifications in light of record inventory, soon to get worse with more foreclosures?

One thing I’m wondering….now that the Gov’t has acknowledged how severe the housing mess is by their takeover of F&F, will there be ANY way to get financing about the $729K GSE limit in some of the coastal markets? Will this be the nail in the coffin for expensive markets like the Bay Area, Manhattan, etc?

 
Comment by Ria Rhodes
2008-09-08 09:25:23

Eight glorious years of controlling reckless spending, reducing the deficit, stabilizing the housing and financial markets, and keeping us out of foreign entanglements that skewer the middle-class taxpayers. All this and the strengthening of privacy laws and civil liberties! Thanks ‘publican’s

I wait with baited breath for melanoma man to croak and leave us with a moose hunter who will channel national policy through the will of G-O-D.

It’s only going to get better!

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 09:31:51

But wait, there’s more!

Order now and we’ll throw in a double helping…

Operators are standing by.

Call Now

Comment by ACH
2008-09-08 10:49:06

Atheists need not apply.
Roidy

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2008-09-08 10:08:24

We might get lucky and be ruled by a dumbo eared windbag, halfwit with his comb over side kick…Yep, things are looking rosy.

Comment by Jeff Saturday
2008-09-08 13:55:47

careful…. don`t mess with IKE

 
 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-08 09:35:03

Plan Skirts Housing’s Biggest Troubles
Rescue Won’t Fix
Falling Home Prices,
Rising Foreclosures

Even amid Fannie and Freddie’s recent turmoil, Mr. Sorsby says, most of his company’s buyers who have decent credit scores, a job and a 5% down payment have been able to obtain mortgages, but the more marginal buyers — a large segment of the potential home-buying public — remain shut out of the market.

Mr. Sorsby and some economists doubt the newly bolstered mortgage companies will expand mortgage availability by loosening credit standards for subprime buyers.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122083205711308483.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 10:13:44

That’s interesting. I thought people with 5% downpayments were the “marginal buyers.” Apparently they are now the backbone of the industry…

 
Comment by patient renter
2008-09-08 15:36:48

As has been said before, most people who can actually afford a full 20% down payment have enough sense to stay the hell out of the market.

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-08 09:48:53

We’ve had a little recovery in stocks this month. Why aren’t you optimistic?

Everyone is saying the future is so unsettled, but I think it’s much clearer than it usually is. If you think about the credit problems bigger picture, what you see is really clear. The current turmoil is just a symptom of a huge macro change that’s going on. For a generation, credit has been very easy. Markets over the last 25-year cycle have been productive with modest volatility. It’s been a great time to be an American citizen. You didn’t have to save because your house was increasing in value. You could spend more than you make, and that’s exactly what we did. Our wealth still increased due to the rising value of our real estate.

http://biz.yahoo.com/usnews/080902/02_adviser_get_out_of_index_investing.html

 
Comment by BlueStar
2008-09-08 10:00:33

Just in time!
Al Qaeda is releasing it’s newest republican campaign commercial, a new terror tape is due out shortly just as soon as the CIA gets it out of post-production. It must be real cause I’m watching it on Fox News. Now watch for the old color coded terror level be elevate to orange or red just before the debates. Oh No!!! Who will protect me?

Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-08 10:43:32

Underdog?

El Chapulin Colorado?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Chapulin_Colorado

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-08 10:04:55

Great News!!! Homebuilder stocks are rebounding, according to CNBC. Maybe if we’re lucky, we’ll get back to the glorious bubble days in no time!

Buy now or be priced out forever!!!

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 10:47:10

ha ha

When I venture into the Central Valley nowadays, I see no homebuilding going on, only stillborn developments, or completed ones, with many unsold houses or auctioned back to the bank…

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-08 10:51:34

thats what i dont get, why in the world would the homebuilders stock rally? there is so much inventory that these guys wont be seeing a profit for many years to come.

 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-09-08 13:54:06

SRS at 52-week low…

(not investment advice)

 
 
Comment by dude
2008-09-08 10:37:57

Remember, remember, the 5th of September,
the day the U.S. went broke.

Comment by dude
2008-09-08 21:52:05

Let us try to forget, saying, “hail and well met”,
a mere trillion or so up in smoke.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2008-09-08 10:49:57

Quite the swing in WaMu today.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-08 11:03:03

It looks like the US will accept reform (or is it the oversight) kicking and screaming. Does anyone know of a good reason our rating agencies our rejecting these reforms:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/26610174/for/cnbc/

Debt rating agencies reject EU regulation plan

BRUSSELS, Sept 8 (Reuters) - Credit rating agencies (CRAs) rejected plans by the European Union for a mandatory shake-up of the sector, but Brussels said it would adopt the measure in October to restore investor confidence hit by the credit crunch. Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s (S&P) said on Monday a voluntary global approach drawn up by the International Organisation of Securities Commissions (IOSCO) was the best approach to ensure global consistency. “If the proposals were implemented, CRAs such as S&P would face a situation in which regulators outside the EU would continue to expect them to comply with the IOSCO code while regulators within the EU would compel them to comply with new and EU-specific standards,” S&P said. But a spokesman for EU Internal Market Commissioner Charlie McCreevy said the legislative proposal was due to be formally adopted in October. The European Parliament and EU states will have final say. S&P, Moody’s and Fitch have been widely criticised as slow to warn investors about risks in securitised products they rated. Despite high ratings, the products became untradeable when U.S. home loans underpinning them went unpaid, forcing banks holding them on their books to write down over $400 billion.”

(my paragraph change for readability)
“The EU’s draft law would replace a voluntary code of conduct drawn up by IOSCO, which is made up of more than 100 national market watchdogs from Europe, the United States and Asia. The plan would force agencies to register if they wanted to operate in the EU, thereby bringing them under direct supervision. McCreevy published a draft law in July for consultation, saying the agencies had failed to “sniff the rot” in securitised products.”

Comment by nhz
2008-09-08 12:44:31

the EU kleptocrats are looking for a scapegoat for the mess they got themselves in … the system is rotting from inside (both in US and EU), outside supervision will not help a bit.

Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-08 13:49:30

I guess I was excited that they’d be loaning out 5% less on the collateral. I thought that was a start.

 
 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-08 12:45:41

our rejecting s/b are rejecting (blush)

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-09-08 11:35:57

Scary.

File under “Loose Lips Sink Ships (Even Faster Than They’re Already Sinkin’)”:

Shares of United Airlines lost nearly all their value Monday morning when a false rumor swept financial markets that the struggling carrier had filed for bankruptcy protection.

United shares traded at one cent in late morning on the New York Stock Exchange, down 99.92 percent, or $12.29. Its volume was more than 29 million shares. Trading in United shares was halted at 11:08 a.m., pending news from the company. Trading resumed at 12:30 p.m., and by early afternoon, shares had nearly recovered, down 70 cents, to $11.60.

Comment by Cowtown
2008-09-08 13:16:25

It turns out the South Florida Sun-Sentinel ran the 2002 United bankruptcy story on its website mistakenly. There was no date on the story, so people picked up on it as if it were current news. I expect United will sue the bejeebus out of the Tribune Co.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 11:53:32

http://cnnmoneytalkback.blogs.cnnmoney.cnn.com/2008/09/08/why-wall-street-loves-the-bailout/

If the responses to Paul Lamonica’s article are any indication, perhaps the masses ARE getting it…(click “back to story”, for the article)

Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 15:09:49

WOW Sleepless.

Great find.

There other other like-minded Americans out there HBBers!

Leigh

One response: check out the last name and location (blush).

Mr. LaMonica:
I cannot believe the outlook you have on this. It is irresponsible. You must work directly for Wall Street to write this garbage. Start selling off now while this rally raises prices. I have read almost all of your articles for the last year, but this is the last. At least though, your opinion is consistent, consistently nuts!
This country and its people have been on a spending spree and it’s almost over. So what if housing rates come down a point, won’t make a bit of difference. Approximately $220,000 for a median price is insane for the average person! And people have been willing to pay that! NO MORE THOUGH!
Enough…

Posted By Jay Spread Eagle, WI: September 8, 2008 3:07 pm

 
Comment by wittbelle
2008-09-08 16:04:30

Very, very, very, very few people are financially savvy. And by financially savvy, I don’t mean people who play the stock market. I mean people who, por ejemplo, don’t live beyond their means, make sound investments and actually get their financial news from sources other than Fox. I would say that most of the comments are from those very few, not the masses. The masses are still buying houses, using credit cards to short stocks, and that the fannie and freddie bailout means they can feel rich again.

 
 
Comment by packman
2008-09-08 12:11:14

Given the Fannie and Freddie news, it seemed like the modern-day version of The Ant and the Grasshopper was apropos:

http://www.chronwatch-america.com/articles/387/1/The-Ant-and-the-Grasshopper/Page1.html

(though the moral of the story - be careful how you vote - seems kind of useless at this point given that Paul’s out of the race)

BTW - the grasshopper in the housing story isn’t the lazy homeowner who didn’t earn the house he’s living in. It’s the lazy mortgage lender investors who didn’t do their due diligence in assessing the risk of their investments, and are the ones who really stand to gain from the ants (the taxpayers).

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 12:13:19

Anybody try the new carnage asada Fannie taco, or Freddie tamale?

2 for 99 Cents

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 12:29:10

Prices are dropping fast — I sense a bottom is near at hand.

Comment by Blano
2008-09-08 12:46:12

I wonder how the stocks that aren’t selling today are doing??

Comment by Bronco
2008-09-08 12:50:39

what is not selling?

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Comment by vozworth
2008-09-08 13:22:23

yep,

Instead of my usuall lottery tickets, brunch for 4, or stamps…

I went with FNM.

Over half of the float traded hands today… me a FB?

guess Ill just have to skip the brunch for two weeks, to get well. Mrs voz will be ok with it though, this turn in the Euro has her planning a month long visit to Italy. Interesting times indeed. Went to see the Black Crowes last night at the Britt Fesitval in Southern Oregon…..good times had by all.

Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 14:56:19

Don’t worry, the prosciutto won’t set you back more than a few months, and like all good businesspersons - the prices are posted in the prices most advantageous to the Italians (by the time your spice gets to Italy prices may be posted in Yen).

FNM preferred S, I can understand; but FNM common - worthless - a great short at any price over $1.00.

Comment by vozworth
2008-09-08 15:44:41

one dollar is my exit strategy, at that price its 30% in the bag, probaly never gonna see it, though. But hey, WTF….Bubbles Bernanke and Bazooka Ben may just have another rabbit in the hat.

I had to start cashin in miles on the Italy trip, they are gonna confiscate those if we dont…they are throwing in 4 star hotels for damn near nuthin…I prefer the 3 star mom-and-pop pensions….but I takes what they gives me. Sure wish I was going but this ones a girls only excursion…its good to be the queen.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by vozworth
2008-09-08 15:52:17

we’re still 0.79 dollar units away from zero.

catch any of that UAUA in the freefall, or is ya too busy buying up Chang Street?

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Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 17:20:07

prosciutto…ah.

I have a secret recipe; olives; rolled prosciutto with special cheese; marrina sauce; risotto; select herbs.

Dang, made bruschetta a few nights ago.

I get fat hanging out here!

That’s what a home is:

Great food and loving people to share and lots of laughter - oh, and the great smells too!

Leigh

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Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 17:50:26

True but also,
a home is where you can say anything you like cuz nobody listens to you anyway.

 
 
Comment by Drowning Pool
2008-09-09 02:48:25

FNM preferred S, I can understand; but FNM common - worthless - a great short at any price over $1.00.

Hoz, I bought the preferred S as a gamble (yes, I admit that is what it was) that Paulson the Corporate Whore would not betray the banks. My $900 went *poof* to $250. Damn.

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Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 15:07:58

By the way, your in great company. Mr. Bill Miller was very long Fannie
“Bill Miller is Portfolio Manager of Legg Mason Value Trust (LMVTX). Since inception, his fund has earned 15.25% average annual total returns. Bill Miller is the only fund manager that has outperformed S&P500 for 15 consecutive years.”

Ooops

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 19:21:42

Proposed new nick name:

Black Swan Bomb Bill

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Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2008-09-08 12:27:09

WaMu got rid of their CEO today after 18 years:

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCAN0842480020080908?rpc=44

Is this the excuse they’ll use if WaMu should fail?

Whoo Hoo

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-09-08 12:31:31

Consumer borrowing slows to weakest in 7 months

Consumers this year have been forced to charge more of their purchases to credit cards as banks have tightened lending standards. That has curtailed use by consumers of home equity loans to finance their spending.

The concern is that all types of consumer spending will slow dramatically in coming months as the boost from $106.7 billion in economic stimulus payments wears off.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080908/consumer_credit.html

i wonder if it slowed by choice or if the banks are refusing to lend them the spending money?

Comment by combotechie
2008-09-08 17:57:57

My guess is the banks are refusing to lend them the spending money.

Any money hitting the banks balance sheet stays there to help build the bank’s depleted reserves. This action serves to remove money from circulation.

The banks want to loan money (that’s what banks do) but needy customers aren’t considered for loans; they’re too risky. Banks are only interested in loaning money to those who really don’t need to borrow.

Lot’s of irony here.

Comment by takingbets
2008-09-09 05:00:31

That was my thought on this, and I can count myself lucky to be in the loanable category.

 
 
 
Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 12:50:41

The Second Coming (Slouching towards Bethlehem)

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert.

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
W.B Yeats

 
Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 12:55:58

“I got an email from a Journalist asking why Fannie Mae (FNM) was trading at 71 cents (soon to be zero), while Freddie mac was trading at 80 cents (soon to be zero).

My answer?

“The management at Freddie i(s) vastly superior to that of Fannies . . . also, from what I understand, the accounting standards at FRE are far more rigorous than those used by FNM.”

The Big Picture

Best joke of the day.

 
Comment by Ria Rhodes
2008-09-08 13:30:28

Why bother registering as an Independent? No one cares what we think. This is a nailed down two party country through and through. Come voting time Independents pinch the nose, close the eyes, and vote for worse or worse than. What to do, what to do?

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 13:35:12

Write in Paul / Kucinich. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

Comment by Bronco
2008-09-08 13:48:56

they don’t see eye to eye on most things

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 13:52:04

Except for that Iraq war thing in which, as far as I know, they have both voted against with every vote. That’s my biggest issue.

The rest is negotiable.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Bronco
2008-09-08 14:46:23

I think Obama is opposed to the war, too; I am not sure, but I think I read it somewhere… ;^)

 
Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 15:29:35

“I think Obama is opposed to the war, too;”

Is there anyone beside McBush and Failin that isn’t?

 
Comment by Bronco
2008-09-08 15:50:21

ah, so its true then, exeter?

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 16:06:44

Hey, if I’m gonna vote my eff-yoo crackpot ticket, I’m shooting for the moon.

 
Comment by Bronco
2008-09-08 16:21:33

Ron Paul :: slightly off kilter
Kucinich :: complete crack-pot

—> both better than the existing ‘choices’

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 15:29:38

“Moreover, the bailout provides an important policy lesson – nothing truly bad can happen as long as the US Treasury is willing and easily able to float debt onto the global financial markets.”
Mr. Tim Duy

“Faced with credit losses, a central bank can either dig its way out through inflation or await recapitalisation by taxpayers.”
Mr. Kenneth Rogoff

“Watch out Mr. Bush! With the exception of economic policy and energy policy and social issues and tax policy and foreign policy and Supreme Court Appointments and Rove-style politics, we’re coming in there to shake things up.”
Mr. Tom Toles in cartoon lampooning McCain -Palin campaign WaPo

a few tidbits from today

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 16:25:03

“There is no analysis [about how much this will cost taxpayers.] We didn’t sit there with a calculator and figure this out.”

Henry ‘abacus’ Paulson, earlier today.

Comment by Bronco
2008-09-08 16:29:14

comedy! ;^)

Comment by WT Economist
2008-09-08 16:38:23

Put that damn bazooka back in your pocket.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 16:42:39

Bazooka collateral damage

US move triggers CDS default
By Aline van Duyn in New York

Published: September 8 2008 19:21 | Last updated: September 8 2008 19:21

One of the largest defaults in the history of the $62,000bn credit derivatives market has been triggered by the US government’s seizure of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, raising questions about how dealers will unwind billions of dollars worth of contracts.

Although the $1,600bn of debt issued by the troubled mortgage groups is regarded as safe after the US government’s move to take control of the companies, their move into “conservatorship” counts as the equivalent of a bankruptcy in the credit derivatives market.

This triggers a default on credit default swaps – instruments that provide a form of insurance on fixed-income assets. Dealers in the market are now working to settle these contracts.

Comment by hoz
2008-09-08 20:21:22

Don’t worry Prof, they’ll announce the winners on Sunday.

Nominees for Recipient of the Banana Republic Necessary to Preserve the Economy Award (drum roll)

Lehman - The astute management of Dick Fuld kept this fine establishment in the news for the better part of the year. In a race to the bottom with Bear Stearns, they find there were no buyers left.

Merril - The wonderful management decided that CDOs were a great investment and that Merril should buy scads for their own account. This fine firm is still sitting with CDOs off book. Wisely, they rely on the stupidity of their investors that don’t realize any earnings have been diluted by a third as the result of selling additional shares to shore up their losses. This will make losses smaller per share next quarter.

Citigroup - This fine bank, to try to save itself, put much of its available lending capital in one company. In the spirit of fairness, the borrowing company is excellent. Mr. Pandit is looking for buyers for their off sheet items, but prospective buyers have looked at the items and said “off sheet, nah this is oh shit”

gosh guys, we ran out of time to go through the other 114 nominees.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-09 03:44:02

All of the contestants appear to meet the “too-big-to-fail” qualification. How will the Sunday afternoon judges decide on the next porcine beauty contest winner?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 19:19:23

Mr. Martin Wolf on how the U.S. housing market is now at risk of going down the way Japan did from 1990-2005, to the detriment of Uncle Sam’s involuntary army of taxpayer guarantors…

The U.S. government is now the mortgage market, with private mortgage finance to remain in the tank for 6, 7, 8, 9 or 10 years…

The situation at hand does not strike me personally as ripe for a quick recovery.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 19:30:31

Perhaps we will see a “No more bailouts” competition from our presidential candidates going forward from here?

OPINION
We’ll Protect Taxpayers From More Bailouts
By JOHN MCCAIN and SARAH PALIN
September 9, 2008

The bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is another outrageous, but sadly necessary, step for these two institutions. Given the long-term mismanagement and flawed structure of these two companies, this was the only short-term alternative for ensuring that hard-working Americans have access to affordable mortgages during this difficult economic period.

We are strong advocates for the permanent reform of Fannie and Freddie. For years, Congress failed to act and it is deeply troubling that what we are now seeing is an exercise in crisis management rather than sound planning, and at great cost to taxpayers.

We promise the American people that our administration will be different. We have long records of standing up to special interests and providing the leadership to change government and make it more accountable to the American taxpayer. In our administration, every agency and department will undergo rigorous oversight and review. We will require the highest standards of accounting, reporting and transparency ever demanded in government.

Comment by Max
2008-09-09 01:06:57

We promise the American people that our administration will be different. We have long records of standing up to special interests and providing the leadership to change government and make it more accountable to the American taxpayer.

Nice sense of humor there. I can imagine McCain & Palin giggling as they typed this.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 19:33:03

I am suddenly leaning Republican for the upcoming election.

REVIEW & OUTLOOK
Fannie Mae’s Patron Saint
September 9, 2008

Taxpayers are now on the hook for as much as $200 billion to rescue Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and if you want to know why, look no further than the rapid response to this bailout from House baron Barney Frank. Asked about Treasury’s modest bailout condition that the companies reduce the size of their high-risk mortgage-backed securities (MBS) portfolios starting in 2010, Mr. Frank was quoted on Monday as saying, “Good luck on that,” and that it would never happen.

There you have the Fannie Mae problem in profile. Mr. Frank wants you to pick up the tab for its failures, while he still vows to block a reform that might prevent the same disaster from happening again.

At least the Massachusetts Democrat is consistent. His record is close to perfect as a stalwart opponent of reforming the two companies, going back more than a decade. The first concerted push to rein in Fan and Fred in Congress came as far back as 1992, and Mr. Frank was right there, standing athwart. But things really picked up this decade, and Barney was there at every turn. Let’s roll the audiotape:

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 21:52:00

The U.S. has provided a wonderful role model for Communist governments to follow.

U.S. Plan Serves as Template For China to Bolster Its Markets
By JAMES T. AREDDY
September 9, 2008

SHANGHAI — The U.S. government’s decision to nationalize its home-mortgage giants may have given an unintentional endorsement to calls for China’s government to rescue its faltering financial markets.

In China on Monday, the U.S. Treasury’s takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was front-page news. China’s banks sit on billions of dollars of the agencies’ debt securities. Chinese manufacturers, meanwhile, are keen to see the U.S. emerge from a housing crisis that has sapped spending power.

China’s central bank, the People’s Bank of China, praised Washington’s move, noting that “America’s financial market influences the stability of the global economic and financial markets.” It added that “the U.S. government should conscientiously bear the responsibility of safeguarding the stability of the financial market and protect the interests of investors.”

But the nationalization move was also fodder for those looking for government relief from China’s slowing economic growth and battered stock prices. So far this year, China’s stock market has lost 59% of its value and $2.86 trillion of its capitalization. Beijing has largely left the market to find its own floor, ignoring investors’ pleas for measures to reverse the losses. There is no sign yet of a change in that stance, but Washington’s latest action could change the calculus.

It’s the government’s duty to intervene,” says Yu Yongding, a former central-bank adviser, who adds: “Now we have a very good example” that it is acceptable.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 22:15:53

Isn’t dumping buckets of cash on Wall Street the primary goal of U.S. financial regulation? RTC soup, anyone?

MORE
AHEAD OF THE TAPE
By MARK GONGLOFF
Rescue Risks Setting Stage For New Woes
September 9, 2008; Page C1

The government’s rescue of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may have averted a financial meltdown, but it could create other unintended problems.

…lawmakers and regulators will eventually have to figure out how to shrink Fannie and Freddie, redistribute their portfolios and refine oversight of the U.S. mortgage business. Missteps could create loopholes that savvy investors can exploit, warns Anil Kashyap, a business professor at the University of Chicago and student of past financial crises.

In such regulatory soups new opportunities and risks are born. The Resolution Trust Corporation that ended the savings-and-loan crisis in the late 1980s led to a booming mortgage-securitization market that dumped buckets of cash on Wall Street. It also planted the seeds of the mess the government this weekend stepped in to solve.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-08 22:19:33

Got stucco?

Condo Buyers In Florida Seek To Exit Deals
But Courts’ Rulings Suggest Many Investors May Be Stuck;
Defining ‘Olympic Style’ Pools
By MARKUS BALSER
September 9, 2008

With Florida awash in tens of thousands of empty or unfinished condominiums, many investors there are turning to the courts in an effort to cancel their contracts and recoup their deposits.

So far, they haven’t had much luck.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-09 03:51:03

Pay back to our friends abroad who helped make the subprime lending crisis possible:

September 8, 2008
A US government bail-out of foreign investors

Hank Paulson’s effort to prop up Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac has various beneficiaries but few gain more than foreign investors.

One effect of the way the quasi-nationalisation is structured is that US institutions may well suffer more than foreign ones. In brief, it is good for overseas central banks and sovereign wealth funds but bad for US regional banks.

The exuberance in non-US markets this morning is a reflection of that fact. The government has had to step in to reassure foreign investors who have become huge buyers of agency debt, but has treated US equity holders harshly.

As Saskia Scholtes and Krishna Guha point out in the FT this morning, US regional banks could well pay the highest price:

Fannie and Freddie’s combined $36bn of preferred stock is widely held by US regional banks. These banks will be forced to take significant write-downs of their holdings.

Few banks have provided detailed disclosures on the extent of their holdings in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, but among those that could be most affected are Gateway Financial Holdings and Midwest Banc Holdings. According to recent research by analysts at Keefe, Bruyette & Woods, both banks have exposure that amounts to more than 30 per cent of their tangible capital.

Meanwhile, foreign holders of agency debt including that issued by Fannie and Freddie have been given a cushion. The US government has not given full sovereign backing to senior and subordinated debt but it has provided comfort.

This is very significant for all the foreign investors, including foreign governments and wealth funds that have piled into agency debt over the past 15 years, regarding it as a substitute for US Treasuries.

 
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