September 8, 2008

It’s A Little Bit More Of A Valley

The Beacon Journal reports from Ohio. “Richard Stevens doesn’t buy it. His two-story, brick house had been appraised at $363,150. Then, the letter came in the mail this week from Summit County notifying him of the new value: $557,820. ‘I was absolutely shocked. I couldn’t believe it,’ Stevens said. ‘I do not believe that I could get $558,000 for the house. I don’t think that’s possible, especially when the sales prices for homes are decreasing and there’s a huge surplus of homes on the market.’”

“In general, homeowners would prefer high appraisals and low tax bills. ‘When you sell, it’s a castle,’ said Shelley Davis, chief of staff for the fiscal office. ‘When you’re taxed on it, it’s a dump.’”

The Enquirer from Michigan. “Even though their Battle Creek house has been on the market for a year, Gerry and Cindy Mann are feeling generous. They want you to buy a $169,000 dollhouse replica of their four-bedroom, two-bathroom home. And to sweeten the deal, they’ll throw in the real house for free.”

“The number of area home sales are at their lowest level since the recession of 1990-91, according to the Michigan Association of Realtors. Foreclosures also have driven the average sale price of a Battle Creek area home down by more than 14 percent in the first half of 2008. This is the largest decline in 20 years of available data, and has sent the average home price down to a level seen almost eight years ago.”

“‘The Realtors do the normal thing; they put us in the book, they have an open house,’ Gerry Mann said. ‘So after a year I was thinking, I don’t know, I have this dollhouse sitting in my basement, let me see if I can do some creative marketing.’”

“‘We’re anxious to move on with our lives, as I think many people that are in this situation,’ Cindy Mann said. ‘We need to think outside the box and look at other ways to attract buyers. We’ve had a lot of interest in the house, but everybody here has homes to sell, too.’”

The Flint Journal from Michigan. “Dianne Martin, a longtime north Flint real estate agent, said in the past two years she’s seen a tremendous spike in out-of-state people buying city homes as investment properties because they’re cheap. Then they try, often unsuccessfully, to rent them out, she said.”

“‘Investors from out-of-state can grab up homes for less than $10,000, and I’m seeing that happen a lot,’ Martin said. ‘People are getting a lot more for their dollar than they can get in California, for example.’”

“Ron Gaby became an out-of-town homeowner in Flint when he moved from his Dupont Street home to Clio about five years ago, in part because he could see the neighborhood deteriorating. Gaby said since then, the brick house on Dupont Street has sat mostly vacant, although he tried to rent it out. And vandals and thieves have broken in, he said.”

“‘I’m stuck with the house,’ Gaby said. ‘I can’t sell it and I really don’t know what to do with it.’”

The Daily Herald from Illinois. “This year’s median sale price for existing single-family homes in DuPage County is $329,000, down from an all-time high of $360,000 in 2007, according to a report.”

“Families earning the median income still fall short of having what it takes to afford a home in DuPage, said Sheila McCann, director of outreach and development for the Wheaton-based center.The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development recommends a family not spend more than 30 percent of monthly income on housing. Using that guidelines, a family would need to make $110,920 to be able to afford the average DuPage County home.”

“This year’s median home price is lower, even, than home prices from two years ago. In 2006, the average sales price was $343,500.”

“And even with the obvious housing downturn, McCann said, ‘we’re still in a gap.’ ‘Housing prices might be getting more affordable, but there’s still a big gap between income and what the average family can afford to pay,’ she said.”

The News Democrat from Illinois. “Downtown Belleville, after years of deterioration and the subsequent millions of dollars the city has pumped into improving it, is now like a kid right out of college — polished, ready and ripe for opportunity.”

“Geri and Doug Boyer were the first — and so far only — residents to move into the Writers’ Lofts on East Main Street. Gary Karasek, the architect behind the Writers’ Lofts, said he has only sold two lofts so far, and both were to the Boyers, who plan to turn their studio loft into a bed and breakfast.”

“Karasek blames the shaky housing market, though he said people are still looking at the lofts. He said he has adjusted accordingly by turning the six original lofts into eight; two of them are now 600-square-foot studios. He expects sales to pick up when the market recovers.”

“Randy Shinn he wishes there were more bars and nightclubs. ‘It’s really convenient because you can actually go out and get drunk and walk home,”‘ 27-year-old Shinn said.”

The Times Press from Wisconsin. “Reedsburg agents say the local real estate market is still humming despite sellers having to compete with an increasing number of foreclosed homes. Sauk County has seen a record-high number of foreclosures and according to the Wisconsin Realtors Association, Sauk County’s home sales are down from 352 in the first half of 2007 to 257 in the first half of this year.”

” The median price of homes for sale has declined by about $11,000 from the end of last year. Some realtors are saying these conditions make real estate a buyer’s market, although credit is tightening.

“‘I don’t feel that we’ve been that affected compared to other areas of the country and other areas of the state,’ Liz Kuhart, a real estate agent in Reedsburg, said. ‘It’s definitely slower than it was a few years ago, but it’s a very good time for buyers and I think they’re understanding that. The sellers are in competition with foreclosures.’”

“The foreclosures have struck property in high, mid and low-range prices. ‘Everything from $649,000 to $20,000,’ Kuhart said, adding that foreclosed property is typically priced more aggressively, putting regular sellers at a competitive disadvantage.”

“‘Houses are still selling, but they’re selling more slowly. There’s just so much available,’ Sauk County Development Corporation Executive Director Karna Hanna said.”

“Local realtors said the length of time a home spends on the market depends on its price, and that recent homebuyers that hadn’t built up much equity may have to eat crow if they’re looking to sell their current residence.”

“‘If they bought it in the last year or two, they’re probably at a loss,’ Kuhart said. ‘Most of them are selling them for less than what they bought them for a few years ago. A lot of people who bought a few years ago shouldn’t have bought to begin with.’”

“‘It’s always had peaks and valleys throughout history,’ Kuhart said. ‘It’s a little bit more of a valley compared to a few years ago.’”

The Chetek Alert from Wisconsin. “County Administrator Duane Hebert told county board members that Barron County was the only county out of 72 in the state of Wisconsin to see its equalized valuation decline, and while the decline was only 0.05 percent, it marked a departure from what the county had been seeing for the past 20 years.’

“‘We have seen a period of unprecedented growth in equalized value,’ says Barron County Finance Director Jeff French. ‘When you look at the numbers-the fact that we have grown steadily in value over the past 20 years-it’s pretty remarkable.’”

“‘The housing market has obviously been the major factor pushing that equalized value higher,’ says French. ‘Barron County has been a hot spot for buying property-especially lake property-since the mid-’80s. Now we’re seeing some of that enthusiasm cool because prices got too high.’”

“French admits real estate speculation may be at the heart of the decrease. He points to the fact that many of the areas that have long been home to the ‘hotter properties’ in the county have seen the largest decreases in equalized value. The Town of Almena decreased 4.73 percent, the Town of Rice Lake declined 5.59 percent, along with Chetek’s drop of 4.02 percent.”‘

“Now that the market has softened, those prices have had to come down, and valuation goes with that,’ says French.”

“French explains that the City of Chetek has likely been impacted due to the number of unsold residential properties sitting on the market. ‘The bubble had to burst at some point,’ says French. ‘Hopefully, it will be more of a slow leak than a quick pop.’”

“‘In the late 1990s and early 2000s, when we had double-digit increases in the operating levy, the mill rate stayed constant because the valuation was growing at the same pace,’ Hebert explains.”

The South Washington County Bulletin from Minnesota. “Almost half of the St. Paul Park homes for sale in July were foreclosures or short sales, a recent study shows. According to a Minneapolis Area Association of Realtors study, St. Paul Park ranks third in the Twin Cities for the percentage of homes for sale in July that were lender-mediated.”

“Michael Smith, a Cottage Grove Realtor who specializes in foreclosures, said he doesn’t think there’s anything unique that would have caused more foreclosures in St. Paul Park. Troubled homeowners there just fell into the same predicament that so many others have - they assumed that home values would continue to rise, and ended up with mortgage payments that increased too steeply for their budgets.”

“Banks want to get the most they can out of a house, said Smith, but they’ll steadily drop the price on it until it sells. The effects of a high foreclosure rate might seem obvious, but why the percentage of lender-mediated sales is so much higher in St. Paul Park than in neighboring cities isn’t so clear.”

The Times Republican from Iowa. “Tough economic times, including mortgage troubles, are sending bankruptcy filings up in Iowa. As of last Friday, there were 5,143 bankruptcy filings in Iowa, and experts are blaming a combination of tough economic conditions.”

“Homes sales are down, making it harder for homeowners to get out of mortgages they can no longer afford. Unemployment in July rose to 4.3 percent, the highest in nearly three years.”

“‘We saw an economic boom, manufactured in real estate,’ said Tom Coates, executive director of Consumer Credit in Des Moines. ‘People were able to borrow against their homes.’”

“He said that has been shut off and ‘we’re seeing an increase in debt going on credit cards.’”

“‘When they first get a foreclosure notice, they will tap their savings, use credit cards to get by, and when the bill collectors start to call, they will file for bankruptcy,’ said University of Iowa law professor Katie Porter.”

“Jeff Mathias, a bankruptcy attorney in West Des Moines, said he is seeing more foreclosures. ‘Most are just surrendering their home in the bankruptcy,’ he said.”

The Newton Daily News from Iowa. “According to Board of REALTORS statistics released for July, the average price of homes sold in Newton in the first seven months of 2008 was $101,729, down more than $9,000 (or 8.4 percent) from the average sales price of $111,099 in 2007.”

“However, Board of REALTORS President Julie Rose said the local statistics can be misleading. ‘The statistics are kind of skewed because we’ve had a lot of foreclosures happen recently,’ Rose said. ‘The average price is lower, but you have to remember that the foreclosures sell for less and therefore drag the average price down.’”

“Rose noted many may jump to the conclusion the foreclosures are due to former Maytagers losing their home. She said she wants to put that rumor to an end.”

“‘These foreclosures are, for the most part, not people who worked at Maytag,’ she said. ‘We have all heard about the people that for whatever reason just walked away from their homes, but they were probably in financial ruins before Maytag closed. Most didn’t even try to sell them or try a short sale, which is when the bank agrees to sell a home for less than the mortgage.’”

“Although a foreclosure is never a good thing, Rose said anyone wanting to buy a home can get a good deal in Newton if they look. ‘If people are thinking about buying a foreclosure, do it now,’ she said. ‘You know four years ago we didn’t have a decent $25,000 house on the market. … There are actually some really good buys on homes out there and believe it or not prices will go up, just look at gas prices.’”

“Rose said homeowners looking to sell should remember today’s buyer does not want a home they have to fix up.”

“‘There’s been a turn in times,’ she said. ‘Buyers don’t want to even paint these days. They want move-in ready houses. … Great homes are still selling for good prices. As long as your house is in good condition, updated and decluttered it will sell. I can’t stress this enough.’”




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79 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-09-08 09:14:15

BTW, go to the Battle Creek Enquirer link and check out the graph on the right. No bubble in Michigan, eh?

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-08 10:06:52

Actually Ben, you can see two very steep slopes in the market. The most steep that I see with my tired eyes is 1993 to 1997 which was a good time in the Michigan economy. What’s not explainable is the continued up-trend post 2001 as the economy has been bad at least that long.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-08 14:30:27

Michigan’s economy seems like a one-trick pony: cars. Someone with half a brain in the chamber of commerce should be able to attract good startup businesses or relocated business with all the cheap housing, labor and land available.

Comment by climber
2008-09-08 15:01:15

Not true. There’s lots of start-up and small manufacturing in Michigan. The problem is that none of those things are any where near the scale of the auto industry.

I have relatives in MI and none of them are going hungry. They all have advanced degrees in science or medicine.

The economy there is shifting, but it takes time.

There are a whole lot of folks fighting the change too.

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Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-08 15:28:46

Obviously, there is more going on than just the auto industry, but it is a ridiculous portion of the economy there.

Even the halo effect on restaurants, retail, and government depends on a healthy auto industry. Rather than give tax breaks to a bunch of Ma and Pop businesses, they should have tried to recruit big companies and multinationals. Unfortunately, this will be harder to do now that the global economy is slowing.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 09:17:39

Tax Revolts were quite common in the early 1930’s…

It looks like Summit County, Ohio might be the battleground for the 1st of many rebellions.
========================================

“Richard Stevens doesn’t buy it. His two-story, brick house had been appraised at $363,150. Then, the letter came in the mail this week from Summit County notifying him of the new value: $557,820. ‘I was absolutely shocked. I couldn’t believe it,’ Stevens said. ‘I do not believe that I could get $558,000 for the house. I don’t think that’s possible, especially when the sales prices for homes are decreasing and there’s a huge surplus of homes on the market.’”

“In general, homeowners would prefer high appraisals and low tax bills. ‘When you sell, it’s a castle,’ said Shelley Davis, chief of staff for the fiscal office. ‘When you’re taxed on it, it’s a dump.’”

Comment by Lionel
2008-09-08 09:41:56

My neighbors here in Seattle, who have been crowing about how a friend offered them a cool (rainy?) million for their house, which they bought for 175K in 1999, are upset that they were assessed 50% over last year. Yet another day I enjoy being a renter.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-08 10:38:42

Lionel,

Well I bet they’re regrettin’ that now!! Btw, love the “(rainy)” million! It should describe ALL of our currency here. I must say though in fairness other than Sat. morning it’s been beautiful and looks to be in the Salem, OR area for the next 10 days. I think a lot of people here felt we were “owed” a late summer. Our’s really didn’t start until a-f-t-e-r the 4th of July.

Another reason we should be described as “rain” birds ( not snowbirds? )

 
 
Comment by climber
2008-09-08 10:38:08

“In general, homeowners would prefer high appraisals and low tax bills. ‘When you sell, it’s a castle,’ said Shelley Davis, chief of staff for the fiscal office. ‘When you’re taxed on it, it’s a dump.’”

Typical bureaucrat spewage. I’ve fought unfair appraisals and won, and when the appraisal is spot on I don’t fight. If Davis is so proud of her valuations how about some supporting data. Stevens apparently has a professional appraisal to back his opinion.

Comment by eastcoaster
2008-09-08 12:11:08

Yeah, but I think the general gist of the statement is true. Folks love being so real-estate wealthy, but don’t want to pay taxes on that supposed wealth. I heard it repeatedly over the past few years - all the bragging and boasting about what their homes were “worth” and then all the bitchin’ about higher tax bills. Can’t have it both ways, folks.

Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-08 12:20:31

The problem with most property tax structures is that it’s like a perpetual capital-gains tax.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-09-08 13:50:15

We have had tax revolts that started right after 1776.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-08 14:26:25

Non-disclosure tax laws are just plain stupid. The process of home valuation should be transparent to everyone on both sides.

I am getting sick of people who vote for spendthrift politicians, yet don’t want to be taxed. Stop putting the burden on your grandchildren.

 
 
Comment by scdave
2008-09-08 09:23:04

I thought Iowa was doing well…Guess not…

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 09:29:47

Oh, good grief. Bubbles in Chetek and Rice Lake, Wisconsin? Yeesh.

I briefly lived in Rice Lake, and although it’s a cute little town, it’s a Middle of Nowheresville if there ever was one.

Comment by Cowtown
2008-09-08 12:31:53

No kidding. I drive through there on my annual pilgrimage to the North Woods and I have never figured out why Barron is a big town. And a bubble in Almena? Unfathomable!

 
Comment by weinerdog43
2008-09-08 12:45:34

Rice Lake is indeed a nice little town, but if you’re not a professional guide or outdoorsman, not a whole lot going on. I wonder if Herberger’s is still there?

 
 
Comment by milkcrate
2008-09-08 09:34:29

“Karasek blames the shaky housing market, though he said people are still looking at the lofts. He said he has adjusted accordingly by turning the six original lofts into eight; two of them are now 600-square-foot studios.

“Randy Shinn he wishes there were more bars and nightclubs. ‘It’s really convenient because you can actually go out and get drunk and walk home,”‘ 27-year-old Shinn said.”

Why not go ahead and reduce them to 150-square-foot studios? I mean, how much room do you need to sleep off a hangover?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 09:45:05

Hmmm… The most room I ever needed was the square footage of my bed.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-08 09:47:35

Ahh… to be 27 again! LOL

Yeah I wasn’t sure if I had stumbled on The Onion by mistake ( with a quote like that? ) Beneath the comical comment there is something of a truth there. Unlike his more sophisticated elders at least Randy can admit that life is all about getting l@id.

Older boomers flocking to downtown loft projects over the last 10 years have to pretend it’s about art, culture and fine dining… THEN getting ‘lucky’! Obviously Randy has no future in politics.

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-08 10:08:58

Go out, get drunk, walk home! I’m sold. I remember when Palm Tran used to run late night service. You didn’t need to walk home. Those were the days!

Comment by I am Sam
2008-09-08 11:18:34

Since when do you need a 30-year mortgate to get drunk and walk home? What did the realtor do, show him a digitally enhanced photo of him when he’s 57, drunk at the same dive, in which he looks better, is skinnier and with more hair after three decades of debauchery?

Eeks!

Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-08 12:25:59

Au contraire! I don’t think he got the 30 year mortgage to get drunk at a convenient location. I think he got drunk at a convenient location because he’s got a 30 year mortgage (or more likely, an Alt-A adjustable) and realizes how eff’ed he is.

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Comment by Frank Giovinazzi
2008-09-08 15:31:35

What was the name of that development? Bukowski Manor?

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-08 09:38:42

“Downtown Belleville, after years of deterioration and the subsequent millions of dollars the city has pumped into improving it, is now like a kid right out of college — polished, ready and ripe for opportunity.”

Hmmm. What about the kid right out of college who is hung-over, has an insensitive jerk for a boyfriend(s), and knows all about Klee, Monet, Chihuly, but cannot freakin’ count without using her toes? What about THAT kid, huh? Huh?* Fook you, stupid Belleville!

*And yes. I was that kid. In fact, now that I think of it, I am STILL that kid, in each particular, except that I’m older.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-08 09:46:34

Awww, I’m just irritable this morning. I loved college, college was just great, and anyhow my job does not require that I count. Only that I be charming, know stuff, and write good. What is that, four things? No, wait, one…two…only three things I have to know how to do.
But I still say, ‘Fook Belleville’! Just on general principles.

Comment by hd74man
2008-09-08 10:36:21

RE: No, wait, one…two…only three things I have to know how to do.

May I assume the “charming thing” includes sub-categories?

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-08 14:10:16

None of your beeswax!
Anyhow, that’s not on the job title, so it doesn’t count.

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Comment by hd74man
2008-09-08 15:05:57

RE: None of your beeswax!

I’m crushed…

 
 
 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 09:47:23

I plead guilty to being older too. But I still think like a kid, and, in many ways, act like one.

Uh-oh. What was that I saw over the weekend? Yeeks, it was a white hair. On my head. Looks like this kid act may get harder to pull off.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-08 14:09:04

My whole head is already covered in white hairs and has been since I got born, so I won’t notice when I get another one. That’s good, because I’d surely freak, and set bonfires and shoot and things and stuff.
Oh, wait. Too late. Hahahahaha!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 14:19:28

Hmmm. Setting bonfires and shooting things. Sounds like things I’d like to do.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-08 14:31:43

No time like the present, baybee. Remember; ‘A bonfire unset is a day wasted’. That’s my motto. I learned that from my grandma, or else from some frogs in the forest. Whatever. Look, it’s wise advice, whatever the source, right? Right.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-08 09:39:53

Economic Apartheid…

A guy that owns a $10k house free and clear in Flint, Michigan has zero chance of ever making anything other than a lateral move to Cleveland, Gary, Buffalo or some other charming rust bucket.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-08 10:12:17

You left out Detroit and Benton Harbor.

Comment by Blano
2008-09-08 11:00:35

Would love to hear how the guy I read about here in Detroit is doing who bought 14 houses or something and called it “diamonds in the rough.”

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-08 11:04:41

If by diamonds in the rough you mean cheap fire wood, then yes…I’d say he got a deal.

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Comment by arizonadude
2008-09-08 11:52:22

He went back to picking strawberries in bakersfield.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-09-08 13:52:56

He may have found out those “diamond in the roughs” are actually lumps of coal.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 11:49:17

Ah, yes, Benton Harlem. Which is across the river from St. Joseph (aka St. Johannesburg).

Comment by goirishgohoosiers
2008-09-08 12:14:21

Benton Harlem. St. Johannesburg. Wow, that is some inside baseball knowledge there, Slim. Someone has spent some hard time in Berrien County.

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Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-08 12:28:15

Lateral move minus about 6%.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 09:45:08

“Randy Shinn he wishes there were more bars and nightclubs. ‘It’s really convenient because you can actually go out and get drunk and walk home,”‘ 27-year-old Shinn said.”

Going out and getting shit-faced is still a priority at 27? No wonder we’ve got problems.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-08 10:10:39

“Going out and getting shit-faced is still a priority at 27?”

I know many in the 30+ demographic who still have it as a priority. Most are divorced trying to relive their youth.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 10:44:56

And I’ll venture to guess that the reason for the divorce was spelled a-l-c-o-h-o-l. As in, one partner got tired of the other partner’s excessive consumption.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-08 10:56:03

I hang out with teachers and salespeople. You can draw your own conclusions.

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 11:48:15

My mother was a teacher. When she was working, she wasn’t much of a drinker. Still isn’t.

But there was this group of teachers who liked to adjourn to a nearby bar after school. Mom and her colleagues (who were foreign language teachers) looked down on them. Reason: They were social studies teachers, and they were at the bottom of this high school’s faculty intelligence ranking. (Foreign languages, math, and science were up at the top.)

 
Comment by Jim A.
2008-09-08 11:50:46

Hey they’re just being social! And mabye getting social diseases…

 
Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-08 12:30:17

The hardest drinkin’ crowd I ever saw was prosecutors and cops.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-09-08 13:56:34

I knew a group of high school teachers that would get together in the science and math wing during lunch (science, math, drama, and business teachers) play poker and have a few sips. My drama teacher always carried his coffee laced with brandy thermos with him.

 
 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-08 10:33:11

exeter,

Unlike when we were growing up, IL was 19 for beer and wine ( 21 for the hard stuff ) and WI was 18 for everything! So a 45 min. drive on Hwy 59 brought you to Lake Geneva and well, frankly Heaven! Imagine further how easy it was for a 17 year old to “pass” for 18 in an era before I.D’s were scrutinized all that carefully?

By the time I was a G.I in my mid-20’s, yes, it was getting quite old. With the ease of access kids today have to score meth etc. I’m firmly in the camp to lower the drinking age.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-08 10:46:46

I agree with lowering the drinking age. And I also agree that our country’s drunk driving laws should be more like those overseas. In other countries, you REALLY get the book thrown at you.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-09-08 11:45:49

I’ve been in a drunk driver on the wrong side of the road, head on accident. Under 20, and in his parent’s car. I felt really bad for his parents. We were all lucky. Seat Belts are common sense, who needs the law. I can nanny myself.

That kid learned a life lesson that night.

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Comment by eastcoaster
2008-09-08 12:14:42

That kid learned a life lesson that night.

Let’s hope. I know many that don’t learn that lesson even after an alcohol-related accident.

 
 
 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 10:43:58

I can’t imagine that’s a priority for someone. Oh, it’s possible it was for me at some point, too, but for some reason I’m having trouble remembering much from those years is all….

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-08 11:22:37

When I was ( and I’m not kidding here ) 14 years old, my father used to take me into a place called The Gables on Gary Avenue in Wheaton, IL. He served in Korea with the guy that owned it and he always joked that “Bob” would never cut him off because Dad “put his daughters through college!”

Anyway, I’d go into the basement and load cases up on the dumbwaiter and Bob would give me a shantygaff ( Blatz beer with mostly ginger ale ) “for bein’ a good kid”. It was always made clear to me that under no circumstances was I to embarrass my father or Bob and as long as I conducted myself like a gentlemen, I was always welcome.

Why don’t we do that any more?

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-09-08 12:17:15

DinOR-
Midwest, different time, you knew the rules and wasn’t mis-behav’in. Try that on a yuppie offspring.

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Comment by DinOR
2008-09-08 13:59:07

awaiting wipeout,

You’re right, I certainly wouldn’t argue that. What I guess I find kind of incredible is there’s no longer a mechanism, culture or connection to responsible drinking? I’m pretty sure the owner worked off the assumption that I would simply take my “father’s bar stool” when he passed on?

They also didn’t tolerate a whole lot of profanity and up until the early 80’s I don’t recall ever seeing a woman in there unless she had a flat or needed directions. Guys just didn’t bring their wives ‘there’. It was a very sacred, special place. Even had Tommy Dorsey still on the jukebox. The men’s room was left FREEZING in the dead of winter to sober you up!

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-09-08 14:47:38

Women in a bar, is so low class. I am not a sexist, just raised to be a lady. Every “sin” catches up with you eventually, and women are vain by nature. Sun worshipers and drinkers, look like s@*t as older ladies.

 
Comment by Skip
2008-09-08 14:50:29

I remember going into bars with my father when I was 12 in Minnesota visiting the grand parents. Spent many a night and lot of quarters playing Donkey Kong with fellow patrons. It was the same drunks at the bar year after year.

When my aunt accompianed us, we had to sit at a table as women were not allowed to be served at the bar.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-08 15:08:46

Skip,

Too funny! I think I’ve been in that place. I will say that the owner also didn’t tolerate a lot trash talking either. He’d say “If you’re such a stud with the women what are you doing hangin’ around HERE!? You see any women around here?”

…and I have absolutely no idea what this has to do with the Housing Bubble..? I just wish we could go back to a pre-bubble kinder, drunker nation. People more interested in socializing than going to Home Despot and plotting their “big score”!

 
 
Comment by seesaw
2008-09-08 15:54:34

I thought Wheaton was a “dry” town

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Comment by exeter
2008-09-08 12:25:48

“I can’t imagine that’s a priority for someone.”

Getting blistered was a priority for me but not at 27 years old.

 
 
Comment by Blano
2008-09-08 11:03:14

Yeah, but doesn’t sound like a great business plan???

Comment by Blano
2008-09-08 11:04:18

Doesn’t “it” sound. Oops.

 
 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-08 11:23:37

“Gary Karasek, the architect behind the Writers’ Lofts, said he has only sold two lofts so far, and both were to the Boyers, who plan to turn their studio loft into a bed and breakfast.”

Bed and breakfasts are the new bubble? Tell me this is a joke.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-09-08 11:37:38

Why you always gotta be a hater, man!

Embrace the love.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-09-08 13:22:16

Was the “Writers’ Loft” actually being marketed to writers? If so, I’d think a pre-requisite would be peace and quiet [and thick, well-insulated, sound-deadening walls - features you're unlikely to find in a crapbox condo building]. It seems like a bed & breakfast, or sharing hallways with the likes of our “Lifestyles of the Drunk & Stupid” auditioner Randy Shinn, would be at odds with the Zen-like creative solitude favored by serious writers. [And with 600 sq ft, I'm HOPING the occupants are solitary].

Comment by Skip
2008-09-08 14:54:00

I think bar and drinking are featured prominently in a lot of writers lives. I remember reading about Stephen King and how he wrote. Evidently, he sat in front of the typewrite and drank himself unconscious and woke up the next morning to some strange bizarre story. Didn’t Hemingway spend a lot of time writing in a bar in Key West?

Comment by Leighsong
2008-09-08 15:57:06

Yes. It is said in many writings that Hemmingway was a heavy drinker. IIRC he shot himself.

In the Keys there is a place with Hemmingway cats.
(kittens with two thumbs if you will).

We have a Hemmingway cat, and she is my baby.

A years ago in the Keys, some group or another got all up in arms about all the feral cats (Hemmingways) running about on or near where he wrote.

Locals put a stop to it real quick, and formed a Museum.

The cats are well cared for and protected.

Leigh

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Comment by ljaycox
2008-09-08 20:27:20

Thats a roomate of mine from college. I have not talked to them for a few years–I wish I had, I maight have been able to save them some money. These are great, really sweet people who have done a lot for others, but hey have obviously got something to learn about real estate. They have done very well–this won’t kill them, but it may make feel like hell when the realize what has happened.

 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2008-09-08 11:49:00

So Michigan should try to sell itself as the retirement Mecca of the 21st century? I mean 10k for a house does go a way towards making retirement affordable.

 
Comment by CrookCounty
2008-09-08 12:10:48

“However, Board of REALTORS President Julie Rose said the local statistics can be misleading. ‘The statistics are kind of skewed because we’ve had a lot of foreclosures happen recently,’ Rose said. ‘The average price is lower, but you have to remember that the foreclosures sell for less and therefore drag the average price down.’”

The numbers are are worse already than is actively being hidden with cooked books and fraudulent transactions. Foreclosures being traded (aka “sold”) to investors are still sitting “For Sale” on the market, even if there isn’t a sign stuck in the lawn. People are still looking to churn and burn, middleman, schmucks. They pass the salt for free but expect 6 figure profits for passing the house.

These foreclosure sales aren’t alleviating supply in the slightest. Many are holding out for recovery. And more and more foreclosures and underwaters are being added to the supply every day. This is EPIC bad.

How bad was the housing inflation? Imagine your paycheck being three times what it is today. Either paychecks are going to triple real quick, or housing prices are going to lose two thirds from peak value. Notice how “wage inflation” is off the table, as being disastrous for the economy. TIIIIMMMMBBBBEERRR!!

 
Comment by eastcoaster
2008-09-08 12:19:25

“Even though their Battle Creek house has been on the market for a year, Gerry and Cindy Mann are feeling generous. They want you to buy a $169,000 dollhouse replica of their four-bedroom, two-bathroom home. And to sweeten the deal, they’ll throw in the real house for free.”

“‘The Realtors do the normal thing; they put us in the book, they have an open house,’ Gerry Mann said. ‘So after a year I was thinking, I don’t know, I have this dollhouse sitting in my basement, let me see if I can do some creative marketing.’”

More games. Just lower the price until it sells.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-09-08 13:29:45

Do these slack-jawed wonders actually think they’re being clever or original? Any of the ‘tards that would’ve fallen for gimmicks like this back in 2004-2006 have long since been flushed out of the market. Not to mention, while I realize their house, much like a snowflake, is unique and special, I seriously doubt that any kid - does anyone else play with dollhouses? - is going to want a replica of their cheesy Cape Cod or whatever it is - they’ll want a grand-mansion dollhouse instead.

Still got a lot more delusions to dispel before this vulture takes wing.

 
 
Comment by KBR
2008-09-08 12:57:56

Did anyone read some of the assinine comments in the Daily Herald article?

“Housing prices might be getting more affordable, but there’s still a big gap between income and what the average family can afford to pay,” she said.

That is BS. Yeah, there is a big gap if you think EVERY family is financing 100% of the home.

You forget that the VAST majority of homeowners bought their houses well before the price run up. Sure they could not 100% finance the house - but their $329k home was bought back when it was $180k and someone can easily make a mortgage payment on $180k when they make $71k/year.

Its only the people who overextended themselves that have the problem. Just because a house cost $329k does not mean 100% is financed. Its only new home buyers. The vast majority of people are NOT in their first home. There are plenty of people in $400k homes that bought them 20 years ago for much less than that.

Good point, dc…………Seems like our news media is increasingly reporting only one aspect of every story they cover. How it might relate to a certain ideology.

Before the mortgage debacle the media and some lawmakers harped on the fact that housing was “unaffordable” for a certain segment of the population. Clearly the intimation was that America was a racist entity since many poor immigrants could not afford to own a home. So mortgage cos. made available loans that were affordable to a great many who could not “afford” to own homes. Thus , the current mess.

And now somehow it’s being twisted into somehow saying some mortgage cos.(who are in BANKRUPTCY) have gouged or profited from the poor. You can’t win with some people.

You are right on the money. This is a ridiculous study. This assumes everyone is a first time buyer, buying now and using 100% financing.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-08 14:20:21

I agree with everything you wrote, except the part that the mortgage debacle occured because of poor people. Don’t forget that even wealthy people overreached. A family making 200K/year still has no business buying a 1.5 million dollar home.

Frankly, as a bank you could have 10 minority borrowers defaulting on homes worth 100K with no money down, and still not lose as much money as you would on a foreclosed million dollar home with 5% down to someone who is upper middle class. The same is true with HELOCs so middle class people could drive Beemers and vacation in Australia.

The main problem is that banks were stupid with their money, promoting exotic mortgages and pressuring appraisers. Politicians promoting homeownership were only a small part of it.

 
Comment by CarrieAnn
2008-09-08 15:09:43

“but their $329k home was bought back when it was $180k and someone can easily make a mortgage payment on $180k when they make $71k/year”

I think the problem with this situation is that an awful lot of their other costs in their budget have risen significantly since they took out their mortgage w/the chance that their income didn’t match increases.

And if you are thinking an older couple as a buyer can afford the $329k home because he’s bringing equity from his previous sales, now they’ve only got 10-20 years that their income will still be at that level. If they move from a bubble zone into a cheaper area, that might be easy. But not everyone is coming from a bubble zone.

 
 
Comment by Lisa
2008-09-08 14:41:27

“Don’t forget that even wealthy people overreached. A family making 200K/year still has no business buying a 1.5 million dollar home.”

Oh yes, the AltA/Option ARM crowd, the next tsunami to hit. Get ready for massive walkaways. Who in their right mind would keep paying a mortgage on a $1MM house that now isn’t worth more than $650K?

 
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