September 9, 2008

Some Reality To Face Up To

KLUR 8 reports from Montana. “As a nationwide mortgage crisis causes housing prices to plummet, a Billings construction company is looking for a new way to determine what a house is worth. Kenmark Construction will auction off 13 properties Tuesday. When you think of homes being auctioned off, you usually think of old dilapidated homes that are in foreclosure. That’s not what we have here. ‘These are some of the finest homes in Billings is some of the choicest subdivisions,’ said Merton Musser, the Auction Manager.”

“‘We’ve not been affected like other areas of the country,’ said Dan Wagner, the President of Montana’s Association of Realtors. ‘But our market has flattened in the last few months, there’s no doubt about that.’”

“While it’s unclear how much these homes will bring in, the starting bids are just 50% of the list price of the properties. ‘It’ll be a meeting of the minds,’ Musser said. ‘It’ll bring buyers and sellers together and allow buyers to set fair market value for these homes.’”

The Flathead Beacon from Montana. “The Flathead real estate market in the first half of 2008 appears to be declining significantly from the boom of the last several years. ‘There’s some reality that we have to face up to,’ Bryan O’Connor, a real estate agent in Bigfork, said. ‘No two ways about it, our volume is down, but I’d rather be here than Las Vegas or a lot of other places.’”

“The Flathead Valley, including portions of Lake and Lincoln counties, has a record high number of homes for sale currently, with more than 3,300 homes on the market, and more than 7,500 total listings. That’s up from 2005 and 2006, during the peak of the boom, when there were usually around 4,000 total listings.”

“‘Our market is down 30 percent for 2007 any way you want to slice it,’ O’Connor said. ‘It’s a buyer’s market, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing.’”

“Jim Kelley, who runs a real estate appraisal and consulting firm in Kalispell, backs up O’Connor’s assessment, and anticipates the number of homes sold in Flathead County in August of this year will be the fewest homes sold in August - normally the largest month for residential sales - in 10 or 20 years, depending on what the final numbers reported for the month show.”

“The median price of homes sold in Flathead County also declined 4.8 percent in the first half of 2008, from $241,500 in the first half of 2007 down to $230,000, according to Kelley’s July report.”

Home sales in Flathead County were down 28.4 percent in the first half of 2008 from last year at the same time. Among the Flathead communities, the high end of the market appears to be taking the biggest hit. The two homes sold so far this year on Whitefish Lake mark an 83.3 percent decline from this time in 2007.”

“Cal Scott, president of the Northwest Montana Association of Realtors…said the main problem in the Flathead is that a glut of homes above that price sit on the market, when 80 percent of the population here can only afford homes in the $150,000 range.

‘We don’t have an adequate supply of housing here for our workforce,’ Scott said, adding that the tougher national slowdown also compels possible buyers here to wait. ‘They watch the TV, and they see what’s going on in Las Vegas,’ Scott said, ‘and they automatically apply that to here, and they freeze.’”

The Gillette News Record from Wyoming. “A recent survey found that median home values dropped in 11 Wyoming counties while increasing in 12 counties during fiscal year 2008. The survey showed that Teton County experienced the largest decline in median home values, with a drop of 9.1 percent. The median home value for fiscal 2008 in Teton County was $623,512.”

“Diane Nodell, president of the Teton Board of Realtors, said what may appear to be a drop in her county’s median value may actually be a correction in unrealistic prices. After a surge of home sales in early 2007, sellers boosted their prices for that summer. But sales weren’t as strong as predicted, she said.”

“Also, the Teton County market has moved away from single-family homes and toward townhomes and condominiums, Nodell said. ‘It seems like our market has shifted into less pricey properties,’ she said.”

The Casper Star Tribune from Wyoming. “College is an investment in a young person’s future. But a student’s college career can also provide an opportunity for parents to invest in real estate and thereby help pay for college costs.”

“Amber Pollock, a 20-year-old University of Wyoming music major from Casper, and her family were not happy with either the cost or condition of rentals they saw in Laramie. So they decided to buy a condominium.”

“That’s not as extravagant as it might seem. ‘For the prices they had down there on their rentals, for just a little bit more money we were able to get into this condo situation,” said Amber’s father, Bill Pollock. ‘It kind of made sense to get into an investment at the same time we were providing her housing.’”

“Parents buying homes for college students is not new. Fred Croci, developer of Sun Chase Village, said in Fort Collins, Colo., home of Colorado State University, hundreds of parents have purchased units for college students over the years.”

“When the Sun Chase Village project launched about five years ago, Croci said units sold for $120,000. They’re now selling for around $140,000.”

“‘If your unit has gone up in basically four years, that’s almost enough to cover the cost of the education,’ he said.”

The Portland Business Journal from Oregon. “Portland-area boat dealers are tallying up fewer new sales in an industry beset with used boats and banks that are less willing to turn boat lovers into boat owners. ‘We worked harder this year for the sales we got than we ever had in the past,’ said Matt Radich, general manager for Active Water Sports, which sells ski boats and wakeboard boats in Beaverton and Oregon City.”

“The boating industry was riding high along with the residential market in 2005, the year Ken Guerins and Tim Coleman formed an online business that specializes in buying and selling used boats. Models costing $20,000 and less sit unsold. ‘We can’t give entry-level boats away,’ Guerins said.”

“The collapse was probably inevitable in an economy beset by record increases in fuel prices coupled with falling home values and tightening requirements for all kinds of loans, especially for discretionary items such as boats.”

“Radich said home equity loans, once the financing mechanism of choice for new boaters, are gone. ‘I don’t think we did one this year,’ he said.”

The News Review from Oregon. “The housing market slowdown has affected some developers who were planning subdivisions in Sutherlin. The city granted final approval for two subdivisions, Forest Heights and Cooper Creek Estates, in the spring, but neither have begun building houses, said Sutherlin Planning Director Dan Huff said.”

“Gordon Avery, owner of Avery Construction, said he is trying to sell lots at Forest Heights, but isn’t having much luck. Not a single lot of the 58 in the subdivision has sold, he said. The company decided not to build spec houses either because of the risk associated with constructing a home without a buyer.”

“‘If you build them and they don’t sell it kind of takes the fun out of it,’ Avery said.”

The Yakima Herald Republic from Washington. “Nothing signals a slowdown in a real estate market more than the increasing number of ‘For Sale’ signs lining the many Yakima Valley streets. Just a little over a year ago, home sales in Yakima County increased 24.8 percent in the first quarter of 2007 from the same period in 2006.”

“According to a Selah-based firm that tracks historical housing trends, the number of all homes sold in July decreased 23.1 percent. ‘The market is not dead, but it’s certainly slowed down,’ said Doug Rich, broker in Yakima.”

“Brandi Berg and her husband have had their 2,705-square-foot home in Moxee on and off the market for a year. They’ve had a couple of viewings, but no offers. ‘It’s just been very slow,’ Berg said.”

“The median resale price for existing homes in Yakima Valley increased 4.9 percent during the second quarter from the same period a year ago, while statewide home prices decreased 7.8 percent, according to the Washington Center.”

“The slight price increase may reflect consumers who are able to purchase more house for their money as sellers try to get their homes off a crowded market, said Glenn Crellin, executive director of The Washington Center for Real Estate Research.”

“Indeed, in a sea of ‘for sale’ signs, nothing lures a buyer like a good price reduction.”

“‘If it looks like prices are still going up, the tendency is for the seller is to ask (for) more than the property will likely sell for,’ Crellin said. ‘That creates a situation that will lead to that property sitting on that market for a while.’”

“That was a situation Kristi and Mike Lewis could not afford when they put their 2,300-square-foot Moxee home on the market earlier this summer. Mike Lewis received a promotion that required the family to move to Spokane as soon as possible.”

“They initially listed the home for $205,000, but with several other homes in their neighborhood also for sale, it was clear that price was not low enough. Over several weeks, the couple would chop the price three times.”

“They eventually found a buyer, thanks to a friend, and the home sold for $189,000.”

“Despite the multiple price reductions, the Lewis family still came out ahead — the selling price was well above the $130,000 the couple paid in 2004. But Kristi Lewis knows that her family could have done better if they had sold the house a while ago.”

“‘It’s a bummer, but what can you do?’ she said. ‘We needed to get out of there.’”

“The Washington Center estimates that Yakima County had a 10.6-month supply of homes as of the end of the second quarter, providing enough units to sell on the market for more than 10 months if no additional homes are put up for sale. Two years ago, that supply was at 5.8 months.”

“Homes in certain price ranges suffered more than others. There were enough homes in the $500,000-plus range, for example, to supply the market for more than three years and enough homes in the $250,000 to $500,000 range to sustain the market for more than 16 months.”

“When the market was more brisk, it was not unusual for a potential buyer to forgo certain expectations if it meant beating multiple offers, Crellin said. But that’s all changed now.”

“While watching a show on HGTV this summer, Berg learned that putting on a fresh coat of paint may make a home more appealing for potential buyers. She took the advice and painted two bedrooms and a bathroom.”

“She wonders if the effort will pay off. ‘I don’t think that’s going to make it go faster,’ Berg said.”




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94 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-09-09 09:16:21

‘The survey showed that Teton County experienced the largest decline in median home values, with a drop of 9.1 percent. The median home value for fiscal 2008 in Teton County was $623,512.’

Good grief, $600k is the median? Oh well, this might not end badly…

Comment by Blano
2008-09-09 09:18:32

What I’ve said a number of times about California now applies to Wyoming as well….

OMIGOD THAT’S INSANE!!!!!!!

 
Comment by Cinch
2008-09-09 10:19:41

Jackson, WY is located in Teton County and by extension Jackson Hole, hence bringing the ridiculous median price into perspective.

Cinch

Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-09 12:45:36

Nonetheless . . .

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-09 12:50:42

Correct. Houses are much, much cheaper in Laramie and Cheyenne.

Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-09-09 13:41:38

Lots are free in Chugwater (if you do the homesteading program)

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Comment by aNYCdj
2008-09-09 14:11:51

http://www.chugwater.com/

So kool…FREE land as far as the eye can see.

 
Comment by Maltose
2008-09-09 15:09:28

It’s funny when a city has a Yahoo email address.
townofchugwater@yahoo.com

 
 
 
Comment by HARM
2008-09-09 14:00:23

There have to be at least –what– two or three former Fed chairman who own vacation houses in Jackson Hole, right? That explains it.

 
 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-09-09 12:36:10

Jackson had some of the best “it’s different here” quotes:

In Jackson, the market doesn’t really go down,’ said (realtor) Linda Walker. Broker Ryan Olsen agrees. ‘We are immune to the up and down treads that plague many real estate markets,’ he says. ‘Our real estate market is essentially quite ‘bullet proof!

http://thehousingbubbleblog.com/?p=1402

 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-09-09 14:16:27

Sorry if this is a double post. Jackson had, I believe, the best denial lne ever two years ago:

Broker Ryan Olsen: ‘We are immune to the up and down treads that plague many real estate markets,’ he says. ‘Our real estate market is essentially quite ‘bullet proof!’”

At the time Robert Cote commented: Quick Boy Wonder! To the archives! Posterity shall not be denied! Nice one!

 
Comment by cougar91
2008-09-09 18:28:30

I was there only 2 weeks ago at the tail end of my Yellowstone/Grand Teton trip. The downtown Jackson area had many realtor offices with many listings taped to the window and based on what I saw, yeah $600K seems to be the average. It is mainly for the multi-millionaire club for sure.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-09 09:16:57

Fred Croci, developer of Sun Chase Village, said in Fort Collins, Colo., home of Colorado State University, hundreds of parents have purchased units for college students over the years…If your unit has gone up in basically four years, that’s almost enough to cover the cost of the education,’ he said.”

Yeah. ‘If’.
What a Croci of crapi.

Comment by Lionel
2008-09-09 09:39:13

Well, Olympiagal, they’re certainly going to get an education in economics, whether they want it or not.

 
Comment by wmbz
2008-09-09 09:41:07

‘If your unit has gone up in basically four years, that’s almost enough to cover the cost of the education,’ he said.”

Yep, I have been watching this go on for about 6 years now at our University. It’s been working just fine until this year, one big development sitting dead in the water, but of course they are building more.

In many cases it’s grandma&grandpa doing the buying.

We just had a student move into a condo down the street, he drives a 2006 Mercedes SL-500. I spoke with him one day, saying nice car, he said his grandmother bought it for him as a H.S. grad gift for going off to College.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-09 10:07:13

True story: House across the street was purchased by a University of Arizona dad back in ‘04. Daughter was to live there while going to school.

Mom added to the fun by getting her a used Jaguar.

In March ‘05, I saw a flatbed towtruck bringing the mortally wounded Jaguar home. RIP, Jaguar.

She replaced it with an underpowered late model SUV. It had a great deal of trouble getting up our modest-sized hills. The SUV went bye-bye last year.

Nowadays, she gets around by bike, and despite what I’ve written up above, she isn’t resentful about it at all. Judging from her academic track record, it looks like grad school will be in her future.

Truth be told, she’s maturing into a fine young lady. I wouldn’t have said that four years ago, trust me on that.

But I can’t help thinking that her college years would have been even more enjoyable if she didn’t have to worry about a house, finding good roommates (who actually pay rent), etc. Just seems like a lot of responsibility to put on a young person’s shoulders.

Comment by smathis
2008-09-09 13:14:27

I can never tell if this weird disconnect I feel when reading or hearing such stories is due to growing up lower-middle class or growing up in the ’80s.

Kids at my school mostly drove beaters. Even the “rich” kids who were gifted a car weren’t driving Jags or Mercedes, for Christ’s sake.

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Comment by spacepest
2008-09-10 13:07:02

Dear gawd, I can’t believe some of the stuff parents buy for their college kids nowadays.

I’m with smathis, I feel a wierd disconnect too. All the kids I knew in high school and college drove beaters as well. In fact, I was the “rich” girl who had the nice new car…a Honda Civic that I had bought new, not used. (Rather than buy a beater I worked at restaurant within walking distance of my home, and saved up years for a downpayment for a new car instead of beater that would probably require constant repairs). I was the only student in my college classes that had a new car. My parents wouldn’t even buy me a beater.

But houses, for college students? haha, theres a crappy investment if I ever saw one. Last house I sold (a few years back) one of the couples bidding on it wanted it so their daughter could live in it while she went to the nearbye college (she was outbid, I sold it to someone else). If she had bought that house back then, she would have lost about 150$ on it should she try to resell it today. How does a -150$K help pay off your kid’s college tuition? What an awful investment.

 
 
 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2008-09-09 10:29:53

My grandma also bought me my first car, a ‘61 Pontiac Tempest. I believe it cost $750.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-09 10:51:52

I was given the family hand-me-down car…

A 1974 puke green Pinto.

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Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-09 11:50:17

roomie had a green pinto called Petey, that thing had rust all over the place, was purchased in TX and apparently (wasn’t there at the time)it brought up a ton of pot to pay for its voyage to NYC.
Petey worked out quite well in the city, didn’t care what kind of bangs/bumps it got. Green Pinto Rusted Petey could park in the tiniest of NYC spots. A hoot to watch.

 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-09-09 11:13:47

I had to burn my arms working the pizza oven for a year in high school to pay off my family’s loan to me for a $500 10 year old Toyota Corolla.

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Comment by OCDan
2008-09-09 11:39:43

Stepdad gave me his 1980 Malibu in 1987 when no one would buy it for a grand.

Was great. Drovve that thing cross country to get to USC from NJ. I don’t think I ever put oil in that car. I couldn’t have taken on the space shuttle w/that thing.

BUT….

the vinyl bucket seats were brutal in the summer. Need to put down covers or towels or face 3rd degree burns.

Would still love to have that one back, though. Was literally the blue bomber, aptly nicknamed for its color.

 
 
Comment by Skip
2008-09-09 13:01:39

I got a ‘72 Ford Gran Torino. It was mostly green. Once I took off the CA emissions it booked ass.

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Comment by reuven
2008-09-09 10:43:34

‘If your unit has gone up in basically four years, that’s almost enough to cover the cost of the education,’ he said.”

And if it’s gone down, you’ve also got an education!

(At least that’s the way it should work! Unfortunately, with the government bailout, I don’t think these folks have learned a thing)

 
Comment by oxide
2008-09-09 11:40:07

When I graduated from college I got the “Little House on the Prairie Cookbook” (very good history-ish book btw), and a Swiss Army knife (the “Camper”.)

Hmmm, maybe that says more about my personality than my family’s finances.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-09 10:02:31

But what if the unit goes down in basically four years? (Yeah, I know. Double entendre alert.)

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 10:09:09

Very common practice here in Portland. In FACT… seems many were convinced it would not only pay for college but likely a wedding and a down payment for an ATM for their new grad! ( Isn’t that how it’s ’supposed’ to work? )

The mindset absolutely boggles the mind. Oh btw for those that might even care, this is the direct link as to why College 529 Savings Plans utterly died on the vine. Perhaps had they been marketed as “Free College Tuition Plans” they might have sold better?

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-09 10:17:50

Common practice by whom? If you say California parents of U of O students, I’d believe it.

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Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 10:33:12

sleepless,

My youngest daughter took us up to talk to admissions for AIP ( Art Institute of Portland ? ) and being the practical folk that we are my wife and I asked where the majority of students lived?

“Oh with as much as this neighborhood is taking off, many parents buy their kids a studio or loft here in the Pearl District and…”

Oh, o.k I get it. ( She wound up at Linn-Benton CC )

So where do students park… here, in, “The Pearl”?

BHWAHAHAHAHA!

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-09 10:58:57

Oh my.

When I was a senior in college I rented a 400 sf room for $116 a month in 1994 in a home built in the early 1900s. It was perfect.

What are these people thinking?

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-09 11:06:08

Let’s see, when I was in college, I lived in two different dorms, an apartment, and a cooperative house.

The co-op house was the best experience because I learned how to do useful things like cook for a crowd, get along with all sorts of different people, and make home repairs. Wouldn’t have traded that experience for the world.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 11:32:58

I think we’re all missing “the bigger insult” here? One so typical of the boom.

“I” can afford to send my children to a ridiculously priced “Art school” and YOU will in the end pay it FOR me! … and by extension ( since I am smarter than you ) my child will lead a golden and priviledged life while you struggle to pay off ‘my’ infestment! I’m not even worried if my kid can find a job b/c it won’t matter ha ha!

I wish you people knew how many times I brought up 529 Plans to the faux-wealthy only to have that ‘measly’ tax advantage sneered at by people much more interested in decorating and primping ( than working and scrimping )!

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-09-09 13:12:37

I’m trying to picture how that works when played backward, as it’s currently playing.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 14:05:33

MacAttack,

Oh I’m sure just like Black Sabbath on acid? No more MEW to tap for the add’l payments, erosion of equity and the cupboards are bare due to unfunded college plans.

So now you have parents that have spoiled the living hell out of their kids demanding they now “get a job!” Oh and good luck with that!

 
 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-09 10:26:06

indeed, its not even an “if”. Prices in Larimer County are slowly but steadily dropping. It is amazing that locals somehow cling to the notion that Fort Collins is somehow “special” just because it periodically shows up on those phony-baloney “best places to live” lists.

The local employment situation is dodgy at best, and the lion’s share of local jobs are menial. Its amazing to see how many people commute to Denver. It can be so busy in the morning that you can’t even reach the speed limit on I-25.

Comment by climber
2008-09-09 11:17:44

You are correct. House prices are soft and well below 2005 or 2006 prices. We just looked at one house purchased for $365k and now asking $328k (very nice 3800 square foot house on 1/3 acre). It’s 5 miles from work, so I think I’ll pass and wait for something closer. It’s not like traffic gets any better.

“When the Sun Chase Village project launched about five years ago, Croci said units sold for $120,000. They’re now selling for around $140,000.”

Take out the 6% realtor’s fees, the 3% closing costs and you’re up what? $7,400 - and that’s best case? It’s amazing how much of that “profit” you get in real estate fails to make it to your bank account.

Comment by OCDan
2008-09-09 11:49:46

Have to chime in here on Ft. Collins. Just got back 2 weeks ago from passing through on the way to Mt. Rushmore and then Custer and then Yellowstone.

Good grief! Ft. Collins is really different. Where is the there there?

Nothing. Very beautiful, but I cannot fathom anything but the very rich affording anything over 150-200K. What supports these insane prices.

As for Billings. Nice and beautiful, but see Ft. Collins above.

For all these rich people, how many are left to buy 2nd and 3rd homes?

OT: Nice to see the market shake off more than 50% of the gains yesterday.

At what point do we finally admit we have a “VERY REAL” problem in this country? I hate to always be the doom and gloomer, but at what point do we admit that all our assets coulnd never be sold or even equal the outstanding debts we have. And you can forget about the entitlements of SS and medicare.

It truly is almost game over. Fed is nearly tapped out. FDIC cannot cover much more. Forget about if WaMu goes under. Who does that leave? That’s right the Treasury. You can really start up the printing presses at that point.

Who was it on this board who said we would see deflation followed by hyperinflation? I know it wasn’t me, but that person is looking wiser and smarter by the day!

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Comment by CrookCounty
2008-09-09 12:47:06

And the bubble is still going strong because most of the people still buying foreclosures are knife catching flippers and investors. There’s not even a slight housing supply relief as more foreclosures and supply enter the market even as prices are falling.

This is exactly how crashes occur, declining prices cause more supply to accelerate the price crash. Just imagine if the government added stock market rules, requiring halts to house trading, forcing everyone to take down their for sale signs, you would see an overnight selling panic in the morning.

Approximately 100M homes exist. At a median price of $220K, that’s $22 TRILLION. A 50% correction (what I roughly expect, plus or minus 10%) is a housing market loss of $11 TRILLION!

The government is talking about loan losses of $250-$500 billion. The more mainstream extreme economists are talking about losses of $1-$2 TRILLION. But hell no, total asset collapse valuations (housing, stock, bonds, derivatives, bankruptcies, unemployment) will be anywhere in the range of $10 TRILLION to $100 (ONE HUNDRED TRILLION!).

Soon it will be Leonardo on the Titanic saying “this is it, take your last breath”.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-09 13:01:04

Nothing. Very beautiful, but I cannot fathom anything but the very rich affording anything over 150-200K. What supports these insane prices.

There are pockets of 100K+ incomes in Ft. Collins, mostly fueled by HP, Intel, Avago and Colorado State U (the profs make good money). Outside of that its slim pickings, mostly startups that pay below average wages. Everything else, outside of healthcare is menial, less than $10/hr. All the construction boys are either idle or commuting to Denver. County and City employment is highly sought out, even though few jobs there pay more than $15-20/hr.

Makes you wonder who lives in all those McMansions, because there are a lot of them in Fort Collins.

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-09 14:15:15

I saw a house that dropped 17% and the seller is desperate. House meets all of my criteria, so I made an offer. The mortgage pmt + taxes is equivalent to the rent on the house, which would be $3000/mo (2K house + 1K M-I-L), so it makes sense to buy. The price is only 2x my income, and I have 20% down. It’ll drop more obviously, but oh well…it suits me and I like it, and plan to live in it long term. Beats having to pay for Prozac and a shrink if I keep living in my crap condo.

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Comment by oxide
2008-09-09 14:30:43

Good for you. :-) If the house “seems” right for the price, and you can afford it for the longer term, then go for it. As we say here, housing is home, not an investment. A couple years of being home might be worth not waiting for the final 20% at the bottom.

And besides, so what if the house drops 20%? Our American greenbacks will probably drop 25%.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-09-09 14:48:12

Yes, NoSingle, good on ya. And you can have a garden! Oh, wait. You live in Alaska. Hmmmm. Well, you can grow chard and rocks. That’s good eatin! Yummmm.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-09 15:26:14

Thank you, I appreciate the encouragement. The house is sort of “Asian styled”, so I will probably put in a Japanese garden with rocks and sand, and try my hand at Bonsai gardening. I’ll grow veggies in the greenhouse. I’m just looking forward to getting a dog and having an outdoor jacuzzi. Also, I can finally start minding my “to do list”.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by pressboardbox
2008-09-09 09:25:20

ON CNBC last friday Jim Cramer recommended Lehman as a buy. I hope he bought alot of shares! How many days until the housing bottom Cramer, you tool???

Comment by arizonadude
2008-09-09 11:31:52

He also said that the shangai composite had bottom a couple weeks ago.Lehman is tanking as I speak.The bears have taken it to the woodshed.

 
Comment by SV guy
2008-09-09 18:00:47

I stopped watching Cramer Eons ago.

He’s a carnival act.

Mike

 
 
Comment by Maltose
2008-09-09 09:34:47

“‘We’ve not been affected like other areas of the country,’ said Dan Wagner, the President of Montana’s Association of Realtors. ‘But our market has flattened in the last few months, there’s no doubt about that.’”

Translation:
“‘We say we’ve not been affected like other areas of the country,’ said Dan Wagner, the President of Montana’s Association of Realtors. ‘But we have.’”

Comment by Cinch
2008-09-09 10:31:40

Never thought it would happened, but I saw a bumper sticker yesterday (Bozeman, MT) that read “Housing=Jobs”. It is understandable given that many western towns that label themselves as college towns rely heavily on RE for economic growth. In proportion, most of these towns are much more dependent on RE than say Las Vegas. A few months back, Ben posted a Flathead, MT article in which it said the town economy is 77% RE based!

It is conceivable to see unemployment rate going well into double digit in the near future.

Cinch

Comment by Tim
2008-09-09 11:09:09

Maybe it was a HBBer, and it means market affordability = long term prosperity.

Comment by OCDan
2008-09-09 11:53:48

Anecdotal, but I know you guys like the rubber meets the road.

I work in a library and I can tell, unequivocably, that the number of people asking for the Sunday job ads and the number of resume writers on the patron computers has skyrocketed in the last 6 months. Also, gettting a ton of people asking for help finding store job apps like Ralph’s online and then asking for help filling them out.

My queation this…how much longer can people hang on with jobs that pay only min. wage to $10/hour? I cannot believe everyone in my area of South OC is debt free.

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Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-09-09 12:31:38

man, that is cushy

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 12:51:58

OCDan,

In fairness if “I” had to fill out a job app. or resume today..? I could, well I’d have someone ELSE do it for me! If you’ve been at the same job for goodly bit, it can be intimidating.

Professional job hoppers have those skills down though.

 
Comment by spacepest
2008-09-10 13:23:20

I’m a library worker as well. I work in the circulation department where all the new library cards are issued.

I cannot believe the amount of new cards I’ve had to issue lately. Ridiculous amounts of new cards for new patrons, some days we run out of applications and cards! Literally, some days that is ALL I do…forget actually being able to do any other work in my department (like sort the items in our department, empty the courier bins, catelogue the damaged materials, etc.)Lines to the back of the library building with people applying for cards, its that bad. And its mainly adults getting the cards to use the computers for filling out job applications and typing out resumes. Our library computers are reservable and there are no more open, “free” computers anymore. They are all booked in advance by patrons needed to job search, fill out applications, resumes, etc.

I really feel sorry for most of our patrons applying for these jobs…alot of them are minimum wage, service type jobs, which they have to apply online for, which requires a certain amount of computer literacy to accomplish. (Which I find sad, sad, sad. A burger flipper or a janitor shouldn’t need to take computer class just to fill at application for his job. Maybe there are too many job applicants out there? Hmmm).

 
 
 
Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-09 12:51:11

If Flathead is 77% RE based, that means the other 23% is retail, and that they’re 100% f***ed!

Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-09-09 14:09:43

For Montana as a whole, the tourism industry is doing well this year (Yellowstone visitors up, not sure about Glacier). And thanks to the commodities bubble we have high wheat, oil, and natural gas prices. But what if they all collapsed at once?

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Comment by oxide
2008-09-09 14:32:55

Oh, there are still glaciers in Glacier National Park? How quaint.

 
 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-09 14:14:57

Cinch - are you in Bozeman? If so, would you be willing to answer a few Qs offline, am thinking of moving there to go to MSU next fall for an MFA. Thanks - info at yellowcatbooks dot com

Comment by Cinch
2008-09-09 17:32:55

I’m in Bozeman. The email you gave above is incomplete.

Cinch

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Comment by FP
2008-09-09 09:39:50

““While watching a show on HGTV this summer, Berg learned that putting on a fresh coat of paint may make a home more appealing for potential buyers. She took the advice and painted two bedrooms and a bathroom.”

“She wonders if the effort will pay off. ‘I don’t think that’s going to make it go faster,’ Berg said.”

Yep, applying $200 worth of paint will increase the house price 100 fold.

I remember when we bought our first house awhile back (Pre-bubble days), the sellers were proud of the new paint. I told them if I bought the house, I’ll repaint it. We stuck them with major internal repairs before we signed.

It’s funny how sellers try to hide all the needed repairs with new coat of paint and staging.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-09 10:08:30

Yeah, there’s nothing like busting through that new paint job to get to what’s wrong behind the walls. You know, things like plumbing and electrical.

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-09 10:28:55

“While watching a show on HGTV this summer, Berg learned that putting on a fresh coat of paint may make a home more appealing for potential buyers.”

LOL! She WAS an idiot but now she’s much more enlightened with this piece of sage advice. Isn’t this common sense or is this what passes for education in America these days?

Comment by Tim
2008-09-09 11:01:29

I heard a great location, quality and a cheap prices also were appealing for potential buyers, but I’m not in the biz so I might me wrong. Anyone know the number of a Realtor?

 
 
Comment by Doghouse Riley
2008-09-09 13:54:17

If she watched some of the HGTV redecorating shows I’ve seen, she probably painted her oak floor black, the fireplace orange, the walls purple and the ceiling battleship grey. Then she stood back and congratulated herself on her trendy color scheme. No doubt the buyers will be knocking down her door…..

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2008-09-09 10:08:12

OT…From today’s housing report…

Lawrence Yun, the trade group’s chief economist, forecasts U.S. home sales are on a pace to fall 11 percent from last year to just over 5 million in 2008. Yun also says that stringent lending criteria by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — the mortgage finance companies taken over by the government this weekend held back sales activity.

Many in the real estate industry are hopeful that these standards will be relaxed with Fannie and Freddie under government control, but the outlook remains uncertain.

Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-09 12:53:53

Anyone here know what “Yun” means in Chinese? I vote for “liar.”

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 10:15:08

“We can’t give entry-level boats away”

Nonsense! Just give me your address, the title and keys and I’ll stop by and pick it up! Don’t be silly, of c-o-u-r-s-e you can give it away!

Wow, and these guys actually have the brass to act surprised. Frankly I’m shocked sales held up as long as they did? Weren’t these toys described as among the first casualties by this blog like 3 years ago? Aren’t they the first thing to go EVERY recession?

Comment by Michael Fink
2008-09-09 11:19:22

These people just don’t understand, of course you can find a price that it will sell at. They just don’t like that price.

I am surprised as well, I thought that the boats would be one of the first to hit the skids. SUVs are going to be the next one, you’ll be able to pick up a late model SUV (<3 years old) for <50% of purchase price in the next few years; they are a fad that has SO run it’s time. Without the “gas” from the housing bubble, it would have stopped 5 years ago.

I’m happy about all this, I want a jet ski; I’m just waiting for them to really pick up “crash” speed in the secondary market.

From the hands to the weak, to the hands of the strong. :)

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 11:41:16

Michael Fink,

Remember our correction didn’t become really, painfully obvious until mid-’07. Anyone *not buying by late ‘06 was still going to be priced out of the market!

Ben has posted articles where FB’s in FL are having “garage sales” where Rolex’s and Mercedes are being offered. We haven’t reached that point here. What we’re seeing mostly is BUILDERS that are s.o.l. Those stories are becoming a dime a dozen but we’re still not seeing all that much stress here in OR other than severely reduced consumption, and not just big ticket items either.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-09 13:05:50

SUVs are going to be the next one, you’ll be able to pick up a late model SUV (<3 years old) for <50% of purchase price in the next few years

I think that is already the case. Or maybe you meant the more desireable makes: Mercedes, BMW. Lexus, etc.?

 
 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-09-09 10:15:49

“The housing market slowdown has affected some developers who were planning subdivisions in Sutherlin.”

You gotta be freakin’ kiddin’ me! Oh wait, I suppose the rumor around Sutherlin is that it’s the next Bend, just like Roseburg is.

Lotsa trees and jacked-to-jeebus trucks and guns there. Oh yeah and a roadside coffee-hut. Not much else, though.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-09 10:18:31

“Amber Pollock, a 20-year-old University of Wyoming music major from Casper, and her family were not happy with either the cost or condition of rentals they saw in Laramie. So they decided to buy a condominium.”

Whatever happened to living on Campus? Room and boad at UW is only about $7000 a year.

Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-09 12:56:28

Some jokes come to mind with her last name, but I won’t go there.

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 10:19:59

“‘It’s a bummer, but what can you do?’, she said. We needed to get out of there’”

And go where? If you can’t swing a house payment on a 130k loan, where the hell you gonna’ go? I’d like to know.

Comment by oxide
2008-09-09 14:37:09

Why, beautiful Oil City, Pennsylvania of course! Geez where you been?

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-09-09 10:50:49

“As a nationwide mortgage crisis causes housing prices to plummet, a Billings construction company is looking for a new way to determine what a house is worth.”

Suggestion: Hold a widely-advertised no-reserve-price auction. The winning bid price should be a good approximation to what the home is worth.

Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-09-09 12:56:36

Will report on this auction tomorrow. Prediction: Nothing sells (unless they rigged the first property or two).

 
Comment by DebtInNation
2008-09-09 12:58:31

PB, they’re looking for a NEW way, i.e., some way to get their wishing price, not the old-fashioned way!

 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-09-09 10:58:16

“‘They watch the TV, and they see what’s going on in Las Vegas,’ Scott said, ‘and they automatically apply that to here, and they freeze.’”

You mean ppl are beginning to apply logic and reasoning to the decision to purchase a house. Oh *****, we are in trouble.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-09 12:48:24

Tim,

Well yeah and a willingness amongst realtors to throw one another’s market under the bus! I say hey whatever but this cuts both ways, no? During the boom realtors were only too happy to tout stories of bidding wars in PHX and over-night lines around the block in FL and apply that mania to their local market.

Now… it’s unfair and they can’t wait to distance themselves from each other? Uh…

 
 
Comment by need 2 leave ca
2008-09-09 12:09:50

Anyone with a spare $4M sitting around willing to buy a home to help out a real desperate FB moron. Perfect weekend hideout? No maintenance costs?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/For-sale-Allen-Iverson-s-six-bedroom-home-in-Vi?urn=nba,106478

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-09 12:46:03

I seem to recall hearing that Iverson’s neighbors were less than thrilled with his loud parties and the sketchy people who attended them.

Comment by SV guy
2008-09-09 18:10:34

I can only imagine what that crowd was like.

Mike

 
 
 
Comment by cvca
2008-09-09 12:19:03

Was in Las Vegas over the weekend and stayed on the strip. Boy was it dead. Friday night walking the strip, usually there is huge crowds, but there was plenty of room to walk.

Usually I spend the Sat morning in the sportsbooks watching the college games and it used to be standing room only. This time there were plenty of seats that you didnt have to save your seat if you got up.

City Center is friggin huge, but I didnt see any activity going on. Granted, I didn’t look to hard, but in years past I’ve noticed the hustle and bustle.

Comment by polly
2008-09-09 12:54:01

Not that I doubt Las Vegas is drying up, but isn’t this a deadish time for LV? Still outrageously hot, but after school starts and after peak vacation time? I’d think this is a naturally slow month. Just wondering….

Comment by Englishman in NJ
2008-09-09 13:01:59

I think that’s right Polly. I’m there every Suerbowl weekend for a business convention, I’ll report on it after the next one but I have noticed last year that traffic in general seemed way down and this is peak season for LV.

It was even easy to get a tee-time on the Wynn course on the Strip.

Methinks next Feb is going to be very interesting.

Comment by spacepest
2008-09-10 13:30:24

Vegas doesn’t start to pick up for another month, basically when the cooler weather starts.

I live in Vegas, and I’ve been surprised how dead some of the areas are, even over the summer. The only places that are even getting a crowd are all the free attraction areas on the strip. I’ll often hit up one of the more upscale local’s casinos on the weekends (hubby likes to go out, eat, and bowl at them), and I’ve seen larger crowds at the locals casinos than I have at some of the larger, more expensive places on the Strip.

It should be interesting to see what turns up crowd wise next month.

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Comment by Englishman in NJ
2008-09-09 12:40:35

Jim Bunnning - a true American hero.

Now why aren’t there more Republicans like him?

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=alpUsTv3.upI&refer=home

Comment by wmbz
2008-09-09 13:27:29

“When I picked up my newspaper yesterday, I thought I woke up in France. But no, it turned out it was socialism here in the United States,” he told Paulson at a July 15 Senate Banking Committee hearing”.

LMAO!

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-09 14:05:18

If the majority of Republicans were like him, I’d consider becoming one again. But most of them are all about exorbitant spending and cutting taxes to the people who least need it, to hell with balancing the budget.

 
Comment by wmbz
2008-09-09 14:35:17

Not only should they resign, they should be brought up on charges, what ever they may be. Deception, lying to Congress etc… I know it will not happen, but damn it these people are screwing our brains out and of course getting very fat doing it. A–Holes!

Bunning accused Paulson of deception when he told Congress in July that the Treasury’s plan would instill such confidence among investors that it would never have to be used.

Paulson “saw and knew what was happening, and didn’t tell the truth to the banking committee,” Bunning said yesterday.

Treasury spokeswoman Michele Davis didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Bunning, a critic of former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan, faults Bernanke for lax supervision of the mortgage market.

The Fed chief waited too long to require lenders to change how they write mortgages, Bunning said. “I mean he just did it two months ago. Come on.”

When asked if he expects more multibillion dollar rescues by Treasury, Bunning said, “You bet I do.”

 
 
Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-09-09 13:21:47

Lehman down 40%

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=LEH

Money magazine said back in August 2007 that it was time to buy Lehman shares. Feel for those that took that advice. Wonder where that columnist is today? They still running salt mines in Siberia?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-09 14:10:04

“The boating industry was riding high along with the residential market in 2005, the year Ken Guerins and Tim Coleman formed an online business that specializes in buying and selling used boats. Models costing $20,000 and less sit unsold. ‘We can’t give entry-level boats away,’ Guerins said.”
=========================================

Boats get pretty awful gas milage, something like 2 to 5 miles per gallon.

I wonder if this is why boat sales are in the drink?

 
Comment by Rob Mack
2008-09-13 13:48:56

I do real estate in Orange County, California. California is also hard-hit with this market slump. California is one of the states in our Union that house prices are relatively higher, Like in New York, DC, Washington State, Illinois and such. Again, relatively speaking, a $750,000 house now sells for $590,000 in Irvine, CA. The difference is huge and owners are not inclined in parting with that difference. With the same token, in areas where housing prices were always low, no matter what, a $250,000 home may go for $180,000. You see, the difference is not huge. Now places like Arizona, Kansas, Oklahoma and Texas where house prices are not too high to begin with, seem to have more activities that places like California and New York. At least for now.

 
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