When You’re In A Hole, Stop Digging
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Surprise, like nearly every city in the Valley, is seeing its neighborhoods and home values wracked by foreclosures. Rochelle Swenson bought her Legacy Parc house for $300,000. Now, she said, it is worth only about $195,000. Amid predatory lenders and mixed messages, options can get confusing, she said. ‘I’ve got people coming up to me, and I don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong,’ she said.”
“Arizona Treasurer Dean Martin said Arizona is facing hard times due to a combination of factors. What made matters worse with the Arizona economy, Martin said, was the popping of the housing bubble.”
“‘The guy who parties the hardest will have the biggest hangover,’ he said. ‘We estimate 67,000 homes were built in Arizona that didn’t have population living in them. Basically, we built a ghost town.’”
“Martin said the state should take measures in the face of a slow economy. Any new course, he said, is better than the one the state’s on right now. ‘When you’re in a hole, stop digging,’ he said.”
“Two residential developments are under way in Van Buren as the city tries to regain ground during the housing market slump. Having a residential subdivision that includes higher-end homes likely will mean slower development, but (developer) Jan Whitt said he believes builders are ready to get back at it.”
“‘We’re starting to see a lot more interest, and I anticipate builders coming in with the next three or four months and building some (speculative) houses,’ Whitt said. ‘Their inventory of spec houses is slowly going down. That’s what they do for a living is build houses.’”
“U.S. foreclosure filings rose to a record in August as falling home prices made it harder to sell or refinance homes. There are 3.9 million unsold existing single-family homes, the most since at least 1982, according to the National Association of Realtors.”
“‘The chickens have come home to roost,’ said Jim Croft, founder of the Mortgage Asset Research Institute.”
“Since the government seized control of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, mortgage rates have dropped sharply, but there are questions about what it means for the housing slump. Donna Vella, a Realtor with 21 years in the business, said dropping rates will help, but probably not immediately.”
“She believes that the Conejo Valley market is at the bottom, but many people are waiting to buy. ‘People think it’s going to drop, drop, drop,’ she said. She believes otherwise. She’s buying investment property now. ‘Within this year or next year, if they don’t buy, they’re going to be foolish.’”
“While some have said the federal government’s takeover of mortgage giants Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae will help real estate by making mortgages less expensive, economist Keith Hembre said he didn’t agree.”
“The problem with residential real estate now is oversupply, he said. Credit has tightened since the housing-market collapse, but it isn’t really mortgage availability that has been keeping people from buying homes.”
“‘What we really need to see happen is for home building to continue to decline, and for sales to pick up,’ he said.”
“Peter Lansing, head of Universal Lending in Denver, said that while he welcomes lower rates, he is worried that the government may loosen underwriting guidelines too much in order to spur home buying. ‘Isn’t that what got us into trouble in the first place? It’s a tough problem,’ Lansing said.”
“Mervyn King…the Bank of England governor, acknowledged the City was in its worst state since the 1930s, but that pouring public money into the mortgage market was fraught with risks. Mr King said the notion that there was a ‘magic solution’ to this credit collapse was ‘an illusion.’ Heavy government intervention is a risky path to take, he warned. ‘What that would do is totally undercut the incentive of private sector banks to get their own balance sheets back in order,’ he said.”
“There are opportunities for good buys in Burleigh Waters and Varsity Lakes, as booming property prices settle down, according to PRD Nationwide Burleigh principal Mark Smith.”
“‘Since November, prices have come down 10-15 per cent and market activity has come down 50 per cent,’ said Mr Smith. ‘It hasn’t just happened in our patch. It has happened across Australia and across the world.’”
“A slump in sales in Vancouver dragged the average price of an existing home in Canada lower last month. ‘The drop was pretty serious, especially coming on the back of a big sales drop there the month before. When you’ve got sales for your most expensive city falling like that, that’s going to knock the stuffing out of the national average,’ said Douglas Porter, deputy chief economist at BMO Nesbitt Burns Inc.”
“Some mortgage brokers and loan officers urged borrowers to inflate incomes, exaggerate job titles or increase loan size because lenders could profit by selling riskier Alt-A loans to investors, said Jim Croft, founder of Mortgage Asset Research Institute. ‘When homes prices were going up, people were saying, ‘If I don’t buy now, I’ll never be able to buy,’ Croft said.”
“When Linda and Mark Pavlick bought their three-bedroom house in West Deer, Pennsylvania, 16 years ago, they paid $68,000. They now owe $105,000. The house was recently appraised for $80,000, Linda Pavlick said. ‘The decision to redo the loan was probably the worst decision we ever made,’ said Pavlick.”
“‘We went three months without gas,’ she said. ‘I used an electric plate to cook. But heating up the water for a shower, to wash your hair, that was the toughest. I’ve learned a lot of lessons, but this isn’t one I’d wish on anybody.’”
“A friend of mine has a saying that the only thing worse than being out of a job in the Verde Valley is trying to find a new one. I still laugh when I think back to an ad I saw from a national pizza chain that was looking for assistant managers in Cottonwood, but you need not apply unless you are career-minded.”
“I personally am enjoying this period of basically no growth in the Verde Valley. I’m sorry but it’s hard to be sympathetic for struggling developers and contractors who would have exploited every square inch of this valley if given the chance, all for the love of money.”
“For those of you that had construction jobs at one time and now find yourselves unemployed, you may want to brush up on your communications skills before you hit the job trail. So repeat after me, ‘Would you like hot or mild sauce?’”
“I guess I’ll just keep livin’ with Mom and consider a corporate position making a general nuisance of myself harassing tourists in Sedona trying to sell them a Time Share.”
“Following the work of a research group into what Beatles’ songs evoke the most memories from the past, perhaps some of them could be used to describe Ireland’s current economic climate.”
“After all, the State finances seem to be ‘Here, There and Everywhere’. The Government seem to be saying that ‘We Can Work It Out’ by ‘Fixing A Hole’ in the Exchequer funds with severe cutbacks. ‘I’ve Got a Feeling’ we should all be wary of the ‘Taxman’ after next month’s Budget, when all of us may be singing ‘Mailman, Bring Me No More Blues’.”
‘The Government is being urged to intervene in the housing market to halt falling prices, but many commentators are advising them to ‘Let It Be’.”
“Their rationale is that we saw the debt-fuelled housing boom last a few years, but ‘All Things Must Pass’. It will clearly be a ‘Long and Winding Road’ for the economy to ‘Get Back’ to where it used to be, and things are going to be getting worse before they will be ‘Getting Better’.”
“Mr King said the notion that there was a ‘magic solution’ to this credit collapse was ‘an illusion.’ Heavy government intervention is a risky path to take, he warned. ‘What that would do is totally undercut the incentive of private sector banks to get their own balance sheets back in order,’ he said.”
What the hell is wrong with this guy? The RE humps are not going to like him for saying this, they believe in magic, and what the heck is a balance sheet? He’s is going to have to get with the program, call in some new age bank whizzes and take a look at their sure fire business models.
And I don’t think our Arizona RE humps are going to like Dean Martin (yes, that is his name) for saying this:
“‘The guy who parties the hardest will have the biggest hangover,’ he said. ‘We estimate 67,000 homes were built in Arizona that didn’t have population living in them. Basically, we built a ghost town.’”
“Martin said the state should take measures in the face of a slow economy. Any new course, he said, is better than the one the state’s on right now. ‘When you’re in a hole, stop digging,’ he said.”
But, like a car-chasing dog that gets hit by a car but still won’t learn his lesson, Arizona’s RE humps just can’t help themselves:
“Two residential developments are under way in Van Buren as the city tries to regain ground during the housing market slump. Having a residential subdivision that includes higher-end homes likely will mean slower development, but (developer) Jan Whitt said he believes builders are ready to get back at it.”
“‘We’re starting to see a lot more interest, and I anticipate builders coming in with the next three or four months and building some (speculative) houses,’ Whitt said. ‘Their inventory of spec houses is slowly going down. That’s what they do for a living is build houses.’”
67,000 excess homes built will take how long to go thru the pipeline?
And this is in one area alone.
Take into account that a lot of these homes are STILL being bought by speculators intent on flipping them ‘when the market comes back’ and you’ll realize this is far from over.
At the end, rest assured that tours will be given around the ghost towns…not for buyers, though.
This just in from Arizona: “When The Market improves” replaces “Ditat Deus” as state motto.
My friend’s son and his new bride just ordered a brand new home in gilbert for 225k. It’s being built now.
When I asked her why she let him buy during this mess she said that it’s brand new and so cheap.
sixty seven thousand excess homes is astounding. How many do we have in san diego?
We need more developmentally disabled people like your friends son.
Every princess deserves a NEW home.
67,000…….that’s one big pig working it’s way thru the Arizona python.
67,000 excess homes. Do the people permitting such development ever, I mean EVER, stop to think of what they’re creating? What a bunch of imbeciles. IMO, a LOT of community development types should be sent packing. Instead, they’re still hanging out in developers pockets. Disgusting.
Again, in 2005, a major builder of apartment complexes told me that the condo market was ‘dead’.
Those who did their homework are fine.
Those who believed that housing had reached a permanently high plateau are the ones suffering.
But the info was there in plain sight for anyone who would care to look for it.
This would be a perfect time for Housing Wizard to do a little victory lap. Let’s suppose for just an instant these 67,000 homes are just gone when we wake up Saturday morning! Just… gone.
Does that in any way make things better for private party sellers? How would their sudden disappearance alleviate any issues they’re confronting? Potential buyers can’t get financing. Is anyone else tired of hearing “it’s all these damn foreclosures and short sales screwing everything up!”?
Rochelle Swenson bought her Legacy Parc house for $300,000. Now, she said, it is worth only about $195,000.
Rochell,Rochelle… What on this earth gives you the idea that it’s only ‘worth’ $195,000? Why I’ll bet if you put it on the market you’ll find it’s ‘worth’ even less.
“Surprise, like nearly every city in the Valley, is seeing its neighborhoods and home values wracked by foreclosures. Rochelle Swenson bought her Legacy Parc house for $300,000.
Rochelle, Rochelle, the resale of the foreclosures is merely shedding light on the new market price, they are not the cause of your troubles. Please do not use foreclosures as your scapegoat.
It should be noted that resale prices for REO today do not reflect said prices 6-12 months from now.
She should be listing at current REO comp - 10%.
I would say that a lot of bad loans that made housing appear to be very valuable is now gone. That is allowing the true value of housing to be revealed. No one’s value has actually changed throughout this entire thing.
A young girl’s erotic journey from Milan to Legacy Park?
LOL. God I miss that show.
I hear that Lehman is looking for a buyer. If I had time I could get some investor friends but I’m sure the gubment will beat me to it by this weekend.
Wow, you’ve got that victim thing down pretty good. But assuming you are in the US, and knowing that this country borrows billions from outside the country,
every
single
day
who the heck do you suppose is really paying for things? It sure ain’t you!
Does that make it better?
But it is us Ben, because we are the ones who will have to repay all those loans. And it will simply. not. work. for us to default.
‘we are the ones who will have to repay all those loans.’
If you are talking about the US government, the Fed says our current obligations will be over $50 trillion. If you think that’s gonna get paid back, you can’t use a calculator. Anything thrown on top of that is fairy dust.
For a long time some have said they will inflate their way out. Others say default and\or debt forgiveness. But note for note repayment? Not unless we start having 30 kids per couple and sprout the jobs for them.
No, I know. It’s not going to be that black and white. There’s no way we’re just going to hand over the money, because we don’t have it and we’re not going to have it. Even so, one way or the other, value will be extracted from our futures to compensate our history.
Well, we’d better hope the countries financing that debt on a recurring basis don’t come to that same conclusion any time soon. I sure don’t want to be living in the US when the federal government cannot borrow any more money, and other countries stop taking US dollars as payment for imports (the natural consequence of losing your national credit rating). I’m not sure exactly what happens then, but I’m sure I want to have my savings in a functional currency when it happens.
Ben,
I 100% agree that the $50 Trillion is not going to be “paid back” –at least not in the conventional sense. But aside from the two options you mentioned –higher stealth inflation (not to be confused with “hyper-inflation”), or national bankruptcy and default– what else is there? What do you think will be the solution?
Um, we could start a war with China! that’s it. And then all bets, I mean debts, are off. BUt damn, no more X-boxes, or plasma screens, or Macs, or Toyotas. Oh, darn, wait a minute, we don’t even make panties or socks in the US anymore. We’ll have to go naked.
Basically you are suggesting a default in one form or another. I agree. The interesting questions revolve around how this is going to play out.
Doug Casey is suggesting that people should consider getting some assets out of the country before the inevitable exchange controls kick in. Jim Rogers and George Soros have already done so. I’m looking for ways to take that advice. The consequences of a default will not be pretty.
Oh, and I re-read “Empire of Debt” by Bonner and Wiggins last night, and now I’m thinking about what sort of a company could be created in a place like Panama, Argentina, etc. that would be sustainable in the coming years.
Now, where’s my Prozac?
I expect the US government to do lots of things their foriegn lenders demand, example bail out Fannie with future taxpayer money. They will do this if they expect future buyers to buy their debt .
Eventually someone will just say no and then we have war
“higher stealth inflation (not to be confused with “hyper-inflation”), or national bankruptcy and default– ”
Can you tell me what the difference is?
I know Hypo vs hyper in terms of health,
in terms of metabolism, Hyper has the metabolism of a hummingbird, Hypo has the metabolism of an elephant.
In economy, Higher stealth inflation?
Thanks
“hyperinflation” is a term bandied about a lot these days, but it is more than just persistent “high” inflation (such as the estimated 7-10% U.S. inflation rate). It’s exact definition varies from economist to economist, but 100% or more per year would be a good minimum. Post-WWI Germany and today’s Zimbabwe would be good examples of countries experiencing hyperinflation. Think: paying for your groceries with wheelbarrows of near-worthless paper currency.
The inflation we have today is a bit high by historical standards, but not hyper. What makes the current inflation so pernicious, however, is the fact the government has been doing everything it can to hide it –hedocis, substitution, birth/death ajustments, “quality” adjustments, changing the CPI basket of goods, introducing alternate “core” CPI metrics. Basically, we have it in everything except wages, which I image is exactly the idea.
fyi: misspelled “hedonics” above (it’s late)
The current system of trade between China and the US will go on for as long as China needs our demand. China needs to create jobs and wealth to keep the populace docile. Does anyone honestly think the Federal takeover of Fanie and Freddie was to prop up the US housing/mortgage market? It was to maintain the system of dollar recycling with China and other central banks. China’s economic interests are our own. They support a slow devaluing of the dollar and appreciation of the yuan. This leads me to believe the path our government will take for the foreseeable future is that of high inflation.
The Fed and Treasury will fight deflation tooth and nail. They will nationalize as much debt as is necessary to keep the current system working. When this game finally stops, what country will want to risk the wrath of the US military machine in order to collect on their debts?
This is economic MAD (mutually-assured destruction), until one side or the other gains a significant advantage, either economic or military. Eventual default on US obligations will occur, just not yet… remember Cheney comment “Deficits don’t matter”. Why is that? For the reasons outlined above.
“and knowing that this country borrows billions from outside the country, every single day”
You should have seen the look on my brothers face when I made this very same statement in response to his “China has a trillion dollars!” boogeyman. Completely enamoured with everything oriental, drunk on realturd piss juice saying his house in Hawaii is worth a million dollars blah blah blah, he didn’t have a response.
“So just who is getting duped on this dollar/yen recycle loop?” Again… no response.
However much they have, it isn’t US dollars. Those went away decades ago. It’s Federal Reserve Notes. And how many of those does the Fed have? “We” don’t know because there has never been a public audit of this “organization.”
Kennedy issued US notes backed by silver just before he was assassinated in 1963. Interestingly, almost all of the nearly 9 trillion dollars of federal debt has been created since then.
U.S. Dollars ceased to exist no later than 1971 when the gold window was closed. The last Silver Certificates were debased in 1964, as I recall. I remember, as a child, traveling to the San Francisco Mint with my father to cash in Silver Certificates for conversion to metal just before the deadline when the government would no longer honor the currency as stated on its face.
This is not new. It’s just later.
“Arizona Treasurer Dean Martin said Arizona is facing hard times due to a combination of factors. What made matters worse with the Arizona economy, Martin said, was the popping of the housing bubble.”
“‘The guy who parties the hardest will have the biggest hangover,’ he said.
There’s no way that a guy named Dean Martin really said that. I think on Fridays Ben hits the sauce and just starts making stuff up. (Of course, this isn’t the real world, it’s the bubble world.)
I kid you not, our state treasurer is named Dean Martin. And there’s a state legislator named Paul Newman.
Oops. Paul Newman is a former state legislator. He’s now a member of the Cochise County Board of Supervisors.
love his spaghetti sauce.
Cochise county? I can’t believe they actually have a board of supervisors. I believe there is a bar in that county, am I correct?
I know a person who used to be the coroner there. They hardly ever have any dead people. One time a guy was murdered and the cops asked him not to publicize the results of his examination, but he did it anyway. As far as he knew, that was the most memorable thing that ever happened there.
“She believes that the Conejo Valley market is at the bottom, but many people are waiting to buy. ‘People think it’s going to drop, drop, drop,’ she said. She believes otherwise. She’s buying investment property now. ‘Within this year or next year, if they don’t buy, they’re going to be foolish.’”
Buy buy BUY! Hurry up and buy some more houses Donna before the lenders start throwing money around and the prices shoot back up again!!
OMG this stuff always cracks me up. Lol, when next year comes around and she realizes that she could have bought all that investment property for a lot less then who’s going to be feeling foolish???
“Another round of double Hemlock and Koolaid for the for the foolish old realtywhore(tm) crying into her Escalade lease. Get the money up front and NO CREDIT”
ROTFL
But this drum beating is working. It persuaded one person I know to go out and part with $340k (mostly loans, but some down payment) for a Lancaster 4 bedroom. Down from about $450k.
The identical home down the street just sold for $260k. Hurry up! There are only five more identical homes on the street for sale!
I guess there have to be knife catchers…
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Speaking of funny names, you know what Conejo means in Spanish slang? It rhymes with “hunt”.
as in “mike hunt?”
hillarious! It took me two seconds to get that. But as common as those two names are, I’d never heard that one before.
boyzzzzzzz
smirk.
Thought it meant “Rabbit”
Yes, it does. but then there’s the slang definition. kinda like our inversion of the slang word for feline.
Eons ago (or so it seems) a few posters would endearingly rib Ben about “Dean Martin” type names.
I would do a Zaba Search just for giggles and post a link to said person(s). Ya just can’t make this stuff up!
Chortles,
Leigh
Foreclosuers abound, jobs are scarce, giant Federally backed lenders go belly up and John and Sara are telling us how they’re going to keep al Qaeda off our back porch. Whatever I guess.
Remember talking about difference betw. California and certain parts of Midwest? Interesting observation from Julian Ryder (a Brit), in Indianapolis this week for first Indy motorcycle GP race (other US GP is in Monterey, CA):
Indy is also a useful lesson to us Euros that the USA consists of more than one country. There are more differences between this place and Monterey, the town near Laguna Seca, than there are between Barcelona and London. It isn’t as bad as the motorway sign on the way south from Chicago would have you believe though, it says ‘Hell is Real.’
Don’t let those midwesterners get your goat, catspit. There is only one reason why they always get their panties in a bunch whenever anyone tries to say that California is nice. It’s because they are J-E-A-L-O-U-S. Midwesterners like to move to California when they’re young, fail miserably at it, then go back home and tell everyone how much CA sucks. Like they’re punishing us by leaving. I say good riddance. Just makes it easier for me and my people to stay here.
On the one hand, I can understand how the overcrowding would get to people. I mean, it gets to me. But on the other hand, CA is not the most overcrowded place in the country, yet I never hear anyone complain about the same thing in other places.
If they’re really moving out of CA just because they like another place better, then why can’t they tolerate anyone voicing a different opinion? It must be jealously.
I like to rattle cages, BV. I came from the Midwest, failed and stayed anyway. It’s a nicer place to be miserable, I figure, with like-minded slackers. A hint of tropics with a slightly bracing winter to keep the Protestant work ethic primed. Neither here nor there. I really love parts of the Midwest, but some of those towns are just depressing.
It wasn’t the overcrowding I hated about California. It was the people.
Hate the sin, Mot, not the sinner. You in Iowa City? Tulsa? Amarillo?
Wow, just wow. A shrink could make some money on that one.
actually, I recall reading a couple of years ago that greater metropolitan Los Angeles is in fact the most densely populated area of the country (for its size; no part is anything like Manhattan.)
here’s one report warning pdf
http://lewis.sppsr.ucla.edu/GIScontest/OsgoogEtAl_LANYDensity_report.pdf
Moved from Los angeles in 87 to get away from the fwys/people and moved to do Manhattan a 2nd time.
I dunno, I figured it was easier to manage, and not everyone was rollerskating in thongs, or talking about first facelift in early 30s. Hard to ‘compete’ in LA, didn’t feel that way in NYC.
What’s this “compete” you speak of? Never heard of it…
Yeah I moved out of SoCal in ‘75. When I last lived there it seemed everyone was name-dropping, trying to get into the Industry, stressing about their looks/bodies/hair, really unhappy. Getting out was very good for me because I couldn’t see living like that. Not to mention getting mugged at knifepoint in No. Hollywood..
Born and raised in Philly. LOVE the midwest. Lived out there for 7 years. Only came back east for family. Have never, EVER wanted to live in California. Honestly don’t get the draw. Great place to visit, but - for me - that’s it. No jealousy whatsoever. None, nada, zip. Californians who speak like you need to get way over themselves.
I’ve had 3 different families (relatives) visit me this summer from the midwest (actually 2 in the midwest and one from Atlanta, but close enough), and all 3 kept saying how they would love to move to San Diego, blah blah blah blah.
Don’t let those midwesterners get your goat, catspit. There is only one reason why they always get their panties in a bunch whenever anyone tries to say that California is nice. It’s because they are J-E-A-L-O-U-S.
Hah.
Certainly — jealous of your RE prices, your utility problems, your water shortages, your geological issues, your immigration issues, your budget deficit issues, your traffic issues, your consumerist issues, your ego issues …
(I work for a company with offices in Chicago and the Bay Area. I like to visit, don’t get me wrong.)
That little quote makes it unclear whether this Brit is criticizing the Midwest or not. I’ve never been to Barcelona or London, but they are both considered to be world class cities and great places to to take a vacation, evn though they are very different from each other.
I haven’t been to Barcelona, but I’ve spent enough time in London to have formed an opinion: It’s a world-class museum. There is no way I would want to live or work there - its time passed at least 100 years ago - probably much longer than that. These days it’s like a very expensive Disneyland attraction that has been left to run down, but the brass is still polished daily by robots that weren’t told that the attraction had closed. The lawns are still mowed, but the grass is all overgrown weeds. The shops still sell overpriced goods, and fools still shop there. $10 for a Starbucks coffee, $100 for a tie, $400 for a pair of pants or $300 for a shirt. Fantasyland for fools.
Love London, way way overpriced, but not like Moscow. YIkers.Regular cupa joe-16.oo
Fuggetaboutit for “starbux”.
though I’ve never been to Spain, but I kinda like the beatles..
I’m rather grimly tracking a lot of properties at this point, keeping track of the market.
Under the file of clueless; Manhatten Beach property forclosure sitting there and the bank decided to cut the price.
1.175M down to 1.145M or a grand total of about 3% off. After 90 days.
I’ve seen some similar properties sitting and priced in the 850K range, also busy not selling. So, that should get in the current over priced range in around 720 days. Maybe the bank will get lucky or maybe a straw buyer will be born.
Ziprealty in my costa mesa hood is almost completely stagnant, nobody giving anything away. Same houses on there, with little brown FORECLOSURE bars popping up under them more and more. Next spring will be when it truly hits, i think.
Actually there are many people who are not waiting on the fence and are buying many a property to flip and make $100,000. Here in Az there are no good buys for the working class looking for homes, the good deals are still being bought and flipped by those with investment dollars at hand. Thus, the working class will very seldom if ever get good deals and affordable housing, the reason the properties sit on zip and don’t move is because they have already been bought cheep by investors and are waiting for working people to buy and spend the rest of their lives indebted to their homes. This will never change and even though properties are going lower, the people who are making big money on other people and institutions are the people that have money. The same people that made money on this mess in the first place. “It takes money to make money” and somehow they sleep at night.
You forget that AZ was a great place for working class homeownership just a few years ago. Before the real estate insanity started some time around 2002 or 2003, the median house price was about 2½ times the median income. Thus, AZ was one of the more affordable states in the country. This was one of the reasons for its massive population growth from 1950 - 2005. People weren’t moving here only for the melanoma. They were coming for the cheap houses.
Fortunately, the last 5 or 6 years have been an aberration. According to Case/Schiller, house prices are falling 2% - 3% per month. So Arizona’s chraracteristic affordability should return in a couple of years.
I think you are spot on Mmike…
Same here. No capitulation yet, but I probably should not be surprised. Have to wait for those Alt-A resets to kick in next month, and the pain to carry to the next selling season - next spring. By then, most of the Bogobanks should be in receivership, so there will be no way out other than to sell at what the market will bear, or hang on and be taxed into bankruptcy.
Now we’re going to see the next wave hit. Unfortunately this includes some relatives of mine who thought they knew better. I am playing poor these days Sorry, no money to loan right now. Can’t help you with that default/tight spot/shortage/big need/bad luck/great opportunity/sad story this week.
I’m more worried about collecting loans from supposedly stand-up solid people who stopped paying last Spring because “times were tough”. They are all probably toast at this point, BK candidates that were smart enough to hit me up before they lost their jobs and prospects. I probably won’t be making another unsecured loan for the rest of my life based on the experience of the last 12 months.
You should go to the Manhattan Beach Confidential website and mess with the realtors.
PS: How is you new job?
“Surprise, like nearly every city in the Valley, is seeing its neighborhoods and home values wracked by foreclosures. Rochelle Swenson bought her Legacy Parc house for $300,000. Now, she said, it is worth only about $195,000.’
Well, what an unpleasant Surprise, Rochelle! Who knew that those little number thingies actually mattered? You know, earnings and income compared to affordable debt…Jeeze. There totally ought to be, like, a warning label or something.
(Come ON Hbbers! No one beat me to this choice bit of mockery? You all must be dispirited and/or drunk and/or fading into the weekend.)
It was too easy, Olygal. We’ve all become such expert FB ego shredders that we don’t even bother anymore unless the insult is good enough to cause long-term, deep-seated insecurities that will be passed down to the next generation through negative projection and general, unintended psychological abuse.
It’s different this time.I know places here in the east valley have seen 50% haircuts and still falling.The case shiller index makes things look good around here.
Rochelle baby U bought the house to live in till U are old and ready to retire to foloriddah….wadda U care about da price till then….?
Oly,
V is right. It would have been like slapping a retarded kid. Too easy.
Mike
I will log in as drunk.
And spirited.
joe,
Are you still drunk?
At my age, I have learned to moderate, so actually, no, just happy.
“I personally am enjoying this period of basically no growth in the Verde Valley. I’m sorry but it’s hard to be sympathetic for struggling developers and contractors who would have exploited every square inch of this valley if given the chance, all for the love of money.”
Ditto for where I live!
all for the love of money ??
Yep…
“She believes that the Conejo Valley market is at the bottom, but many people are waiting to buy. ‘People think it’s going to drop, drop, drop,’ she said. She believes otherwise. She’s buying investment property now. ‘Within this year or next year, if they don’t buy, they’re going to be foolish.’”
The bubble was fueled by spec buying and guess what, its back!!!
Now its buy foreclosure property that somehow will like magic become very expensive someday in the future, just not today. Simple solutions rent it out until the happy day arrives.
Large number of realtor investor types out raising money to buy up these foreclosures, several have knocked on my door looking for dollars, all with the same story about the riches to be had, a chance of a lifetime.
Mybleachhouse has some comments……………
the option arm resets are just starting, and go out the next couple years…so second wave of foreclosures coming. But, with lehman exploding, washington mutual next, and many more to come there will be fireside sales from the banks once FDIC takes them over. its too late for the gov’t to stop this machine! we will be lucky to not see bank runs and more severe problems as everyone turns in those keys prior to the 2009 expiration of the get out of the taxes free deal! this will get worst as some who may not have thought of walking see they are 100K+ under in their loan, and turn in those keys before the lossto the bank counts as income to the borrower. the clock is ticking until dec 2009! the bottom will not come prior to that date in my opinion! there will be deal, but it is too early!