September 17, 2008

A Self-Fulfilling Thing In Florida

The Orlando Sentinel reports from Florida. “A federal bankruptcy court this month approved the sale of 122 acres that were once planned for vacation villas marketed primarily to British investors. Starting in 2006, investors started filing complaints and suing British American Homes, claiming the Florida company took their deposits but didn’t deliver the homes. The development was marketed as a vacation haven in the booming Four Corners area, where signs for vacation homes dot U.S. Highway 27.”

“‘”I was in England three weeks ago. A lot of these folks mortgaged their house to come up with the down payment. Some of them are retired. It’s not easy for them,’ said attorney Nick Bangos, who represents about 106 investors.”

The Palm Beach Post. “The three women phoned Rodney McGill in hopes that he’d teach them how to get rich in a difficult real estate market. McGill seemed a bona fide success. He drove a Rolls-Royce, hosted a radio show and was pastor of New Hope Outreach Center in Jensen Beach. His wife, Shalonda McGill, was a mortgage broker. The McGills bought four homes in Martin and St. Lucie counties by submitting fraudulent loan applications, then flipped the properties to clients for outsized profits, investigators said.”

“Investigators said the McGills in June 2006 paid $210,000 for a home in Jensen Beach, according to property records. Three months later, they sold the property to Sharon Schofield for $365,000 - a 74 percent increase at a time when home values were falling.”

“‘People thought they were getting involved in a real estate investment where he was going to mentor them,’ said Detective Ted Padich of the Florida Department of Financial Services. ‘What (the McGills) did was simply sell them homes that they already owned.’”

From TC Palm. “The developer of the large community on Michael Creek Drive plans to build the luxury waterfront subdivision despite a slump in the Treasure Coast housing market. ‘Right now anything that is on river or on the water is stratospheric in South Florida, even with the way the market has been going,’ said Cary Glickstein, owner and president of Delray Beach-based Ironwood Properties Inc.”

“Ironwood is also developing The Antilles in Vero Beach. Recently, Virginia-based Premier Real Estate Auction sold 19 units during an auction conducted at the community’s clubhouse. The most expensive unit sold for $385,000 and least expensive for $320,000 in addition to a 10 percent buyer’s premium.”

“Homes at the ritzy subdivision were selling for upwards of $700,000 during the height of the housing boom.”

“‘We thought that was a successful event,’ Glickstein said.”

“Foreclosure rates continued to escalate across the Treasure Coast in August, according to a RealtyTrac report. The study shows 1,661 homes in Martin, St. Lucie and Indian River counties entered some stage of foreclosure in August. That was more than double the 816 recorded during the same month a year ago.”

“‘The main problem here is that people are finding themselves upside down and when they owe much more than what the house is worth - that triggers a lot of foreclosures,’ said Brad Hunter, director of West Palm Beach-based Metrostudy. ‘Why continue to pay on something when it’s not worth what you’re paying for?’”

“Scott Wingfield, president of the Realtors Association of St. Lucie County, said he has brokered the sale of several foreclosed properties recently.”

“‘A lot of these properties are spec homes, properties that have never been lived in,’ Wingfield said. ‘The lenders are being very aggressive with pricing because they don’t want them on the books anymore.’”

From Florida Today. “Dark clouds of reckoning hung thick over Wall Street on Monday, as credit woes plagued two storied investment names: Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Merrill Lynch & Co.”

“For consumers, ‘if you’re credit is a little shaky, it’s bad news for you,’ said David Denslow, an economist at the University of Central Florida. ‘If you’re credit is sterling, I don’t think it will affect you a lot.’”

“With the collapse of Lehman Brothers, ‘people will be wondering: Who is next? It will become more difficult (for Wall Street) to raise capital, which creates a self-fulfilling thing’ with financial fallouts. ‘Now that housing prices are falling, nobody knows how to value’ mortgage portfolios, Denslow said. ‘What’s their value? Nobody knows.’”

The Sun Sentinel. “While unscrupulous loan brokers were defrauding Florida home buyers for millions, the state Office of Financial Regulation failed to order federal background checks and fingerprint scans for people applying for mortgage licenses as required by state law, Gov. Charlie Crist’s chief inspector general, Melinda Miguel, said in the report released Tuesday.”

“While regulators were ‘asleep at the wheel,’ as one legislator put it, Florida racked up the highest home-loan fraud rate in the country - twice the national average.”

“In addition, the maximum $5,000 penalty for mortgage fraud is too small, the report said, noting that the illicit profit from a single fraudulent home sale often far outweighs the fine. It urged the Legislature to increase those penalties.”

“‘I think we have to take those recommendations and put them into action,’ Crist said Tuesday.”

“The inspector’s report came after recent stories in The Miami Herald showed more than 10,000 people with criminal histories, including convictions for money laundering and cocaine trafficking, were allowed to sell home loans during the real estate boom from 2000 to 2005.”

“The next target should be the unregulated loan originators, said Sen. Bill Posey, who chairs the Banking and Insurance committee. ‘From what I understand, those are the guys who really pulled the most shenanigans,’ he said.”

The Miami Herald. “The investigation, carried out by the Inspectors General of the State Cabinet Offices, concluded the state’s regulatory system was ‘insufficient to protect the people of the state of Florida.’”

“The Herald’s series led to the forced resignation of Commissioner Don Saxon, who had overseen the agency since 2003. Saxon said last month he hoped the report would vindicate his leadership of the agency. When asked Tuesday if the audit had done so, Crist responded with an abrupt ‘No.’”

“Saxon, who is to step down in two weeks, was on vacation and didn’t return repeated calls for comment. Investigators said the agency functioned without clear guidelines, making up rules as it went along and operating at times on wrong interpretations of the law.”

“‘In some instances, the office was not complying with existing governing directives,’ the report states.”

“”There was no enforcement mentality at OFR, and the report bore that out,’ said Chief Financial Officer Alex Sink, the first elected leader to call for Saxon’s ouster. She added that the agency needs a ‘fresh set of eyes and new leadership.’”

“Auditors found that state regulators failed to conduct federal background checks or submit fingerprint cards of the applicants to the Florida Department of Law Enforcement until March of this year — just days after The Herald made a series of requests for the criminal histories of mortgage brokers.”

“The auditors found the agency was relying on birthdates and Social Security numbers to do background checks, leaving fingerprint cards — crucial to determining criminal histories — in office files, unused.”

‘The auditors wrote that Saxon said he was ‘not aware of the strict language’ of the law and ‘did not believe’ the Legislature meant for him to immediately implement the federal background checks required by law in 2006.”

“The Miami Herald found 88 former federal criminals were licensed by regulators, including former bank robbers.”

“Auditors found that, in some cases, the agency failed to warn law enforcement of crooked brokers and boiler rooms, and that penalties imposed on bad brokers were often inadequate and far lower than proceeds from a single illicit mortgage transaction.”

“The report also noted that telephone complaints about bad brokers were not recorded by state agents or even acted upon.”

“Separately, the report found that loan originators — the largest segment of mortgage professionals in Florida — do the same work as mortgage brokers but aren’t licensed. Saxon told auditors that licensing loan originators would be next to impossible because of the ‘influence of the industry.’”

“But industry leaders in Florida told The Miami Herald they had asked Saxon’s office in 2002 and 2006 to license loan originators — but regulators refused.”

“The Herald obtained agency e-mails that showed top leaders of Saxon’s staff opposed the licensing of loan originators and, in one case, even removed a provision in a legal draft to license them.”

The St Petersburg Times. “The road to ruin for Lehman Brothers, one of the nation’s oldest and largest investment banks, began in places like Units 404 and 418 of Boca Ciega Resort & Marina. At the peak of Florida’s real estate boom in 2006, Lehman’s subprime subsidiary, BNC Mortgage, loaned a total of $512,000 to Edwin L. Jackson to buy the two condos. They were among 14 condos that Jackson bought in the same complex.”

“Lehman pooled them with other loans and sold them as securities to pension funds, mutual funds and individual investors, all eager to cash in on the seemingly unstoppable rise in real estate prices.”

“For a few heady years, loaning money to borrowers like Jackson and pooling the loans made Lehman Brothers one of Wall Street’s biggest players in the subprime mortgage boom. Then, as Jackson puts it, ‘rents fell off, sales fell off and the economy fell off.’”

“As Lehman’s value plunged, so did that of Units 404 and 418. Mortgaged for $256,000 apiece, they are now assessed at just $172,400. With two DUI convictions and a suspended license, Jackson gets around by bike these days.”

“Before the mid 1990s, local bankers took in deposits, loaned the money to home buyers and collected principal and interest until the mortgage was paid. Mortgage-backed securities consisted mostly of loans to borrowers with good credit.”

“Then, investment banks like Lehman started pooling riskier loans made to borrowers with shaky credit. Pooling the loans diversified the risk while providing the high yields sought by investors. The company also led the push by investment banks to buy their own lenders so they would have direct access to consumers.”

“Though Lehman denied it, former BNC employees said that the company falsified pay stubs, tax forms and other loan information - ‘anything to make the deal work,’ as one told the Wall Street Journal in 2007. Yet BNC and other subprime lenders operated largely beyond the reach of regulators.”

“‘The belief is that these are really smart people and you’d think they’d be dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s,’ says Scott Brown, senior economist at St. Petersburg’s Raymond James.”

“Even as rentals slowed and the sales market dried up, Jackson’s expenses on his Boca Ciega condos continued to climb. On Tuesday, six of his 14 units were vacant, including Unit 418. All the condos are now in foreclosure, though Jackson says he’s ‘trying to work things out.’”

“He says he has short-sale contracts on all 14 units. And with Lehman Brothers in bankruptcy, it could be months before anything happens with Jackson’s loans.”

“Like most borrowers, he didn’t know that his mortgages had become part of a ‘mortgage-backed security.’ He had never heard the term before Tuesday nor has he ever spoken with anyone from Lehman Brothers.”

“‘What do I have to do with all this?’ he asked, excusing himself as walked past the resort’s deserted pool area into its vast, nearly empty parking lot.”




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94 Comments »

Comment by Roy G Biv
2008-09-17 07:00:53

Thanks Ben, as always informative, but keeps me away from my Chores !!

 
Comment by Incredulous (the original)
2008-09-17 07:10:20

“‘What do I have to do with all this?’ he asked, excusing himself as walked past the resort’s deserted pool area into its vast, nearly empty parking lot.”

This clown “bought” fourteen condos in the same building, has defaulted on his loans, and asks a question like this? So what if he didn’t know what mortgage backed securities were? What does that have to do with him paying his damn mortgages?

Comment by jingle
2008-09-17 07:45:26

“What do I have to do with all this?”

Hilarious. You fogged a mirror you idiot, just like all the other morons out there.

This meltdown has so many participants, all willing to play their part, driven by greed, looking past the obvious…….like Lehman lending this goof-ball $3.5 million dollars and he rides a bike, because his license is revoked?

Who is at fault here??? Everyone.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 08:35:31

If you’ve ever wondered what the country would like like in the event everyone had read and studied Donald Trump’s books, look no further. In a way LEH going under put a horseshoe in his back pocket. Not that it’s going to help in the long run.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-09-17 08:54:24

Love it, there is always One comment from a fb or re that exemplifies the entire mess. Ben must put it in here like hunting for the “treasure” and we all seize it!

“What do I have to do with it”.

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-09-17 10:47:31

I may have mis-read, but I think there was something in the Tribune’s business section today about a particular bank no longer offering home mortgages to persons who already had four of them. The prior limit was ten.

I have to admit that, despite living here for fifteen years, I had no idea just how much of the economy in this area was tied to perpetuating urban sprawl and building unnecessary housing. I sure know now.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-17 11:04:17

Charmer, your second graf described Arizona’s economy to a tee. Gripes the hell out of me too.

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-09-17 11:20:09

I had no idea just how much of the economy in this area was tied to perpetuating urban sprawl and building unnecessary housing.

The sad truth in Floridas economy has been tied mainly to housing. The major sectors for jobs are:

Tourism
Building
Farming (mainly Citrus)
Financial/banking (due to the number of retirees)
Fraud/Con artists

The highest paying jobs are in the Fraud/Con Artists and they even recieve free housing, meals and healthcare when sent to prison.

 
Comment by Skip
2008-09-17 12:17:17

10 loans??? How did they ever think *that* was a good idea?

Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2008-09-17 12:55:44

That’s called “Capturing Market Share”.
Don’t you know, all these wizards of finance had “models” that showed them this was a very prudent and profitable strategy.

Just goes to show you how truely STUPID many MBA’s and Financial Managers actually are.

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Comment by incredulous
2008-09-17 12:51:26

original, I noticed that as well, these idiots truly don’t realize they contributed to this mess.

 
 
Comment by yogurt
2008-09-17 07:18:13

McGill seemed a bona fide success. He drove a Rolls-Royce, hosted a radio show and was pastor of New Hope Outreach Center in Jensen Beach. His wife, Shalonda McGill, was a mortgage broker. The McGills bought four homes in Martin and St. Lucie counties by submitting fraudulent loan applications, then flipped the properties to clients for outsized profits, investigators said.”

You couldn’t make up a couple like that, could you? Or if you did, someone would accuse you of being “anti-Christian”.

I’m sure the Devil made them do it.

Comment by wmbz
2008-09-17 07:35:17

“He drove a Rolls-Royce, hosted a radio show and was pastor of New Hope Outreach Center in Jensen Beach. His wife, Shalonda McGill, was a mortgage broker”.

When your ‘preacher’ drives up in a Rolls and most surely a Rolex, with matching diamond pinky ring, run don’t walk when he says he will ‘mentor’ you.

Comment by jeff saturday
2008-09-17 09:34:21

I heard that Jesus said ” borrower is slave to the lender ” if that is true , shouldn’t`t a preacher know that and wouldn`t that make his wife , a mortgage broker a slave broker.

Comment by Blano
2008-09-17 11:06:22

Not Jesus, but you’re on the right track:

“The rich rule over the poor,
and the borrower is servant to the lender.”

From Proverbs

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Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-17 11:19:51

Jesus just left Chicago, heading back down under…

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-17 12:34:18

Ezekiel 28:18-19

By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-09-17 13:41:13

Powerful quote there, Emp.

Why can’t blind faithers see what they’ve created by allowing anti-christs to take over our country?

 
Comment by jeff saturday
2008-09-17 16:33:52

If you honestly think Ezekiel 28:18-19 is about our country at this time, you may want to think about moving to a different country. I do not so I will just keep putting in bids on homes based on 1985 prices.

 
 
Comment by Juno Moneta
2008-09-17 17:08:21

How big of a McMansion would Jesus have lived in???

I don’t think he would have cared for Boca Raton…To many of his own kind…You need a little diversity…

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-17 09:50:44

I grew up in the Episcopal church. It has a reputation for attracting richie-rich types, but lemme tell you, that rep only goes so far.

I can remember my mother grousing about one of our church rectors driving an Audi. Mighty uppity of him, Mom thought. At the time, Mom drove an Opel and Dad drove a VW Beetle.

Comment by potential buyer
2008-09-17 10:12:21

Umm, a 2 car family. Lots of wealth there.

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Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-17 07:41:43

I don’t trust a preacher in a Rolls Royce, Bently, Jaguar, or other luxury vehicle.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 08:22:38

Bad Andy,

I can get past the Rolls, guru status and even the ‘preacher’ act… but a wife that’s a ‘mortgage broker’!? That should have sent up red flags galore.

No, seriously, in this day and age there are still… people that fall for this schtick?

 
Comment by pinch-a-penny
2008-09-17 08:31:35

I do not trust any priest, pastor, rabbi or religious leader that claims to have the word of god.

Comment by Jon
2008-09-17 10:02:38

I do not trust anyone who wants you to give them money to tell you about invisible things.

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Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-17 10:25:35

I have not problem with organized religion (most organized religion anyway) or the order that it brings to society. My problem is with the people leading their “flock” while living in a McMansion or driving a luxury auto…even if that’s who their “sheep” are. The preacher should have no higher standard of living than the lowest of their members.

 
 
 
Comment by Juno Moneta
2008-09-17 17:15:35

The preacher at MUDD Creek Baptist Church has got a collection of Corvettes….He even had his picture in a local magazine boasting it… I personally don’t think Jesus would have driven a Corvette….perferring ‘asses’ instead…
Why walk, when you can ride on your ass…doesn’t require any petrol…

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-17 08:40:02

Be wary of preacher in fancy car.
-Mo Zuss

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-17 08:45:25

The Buddha rides the worst horse possible.
-Baba Rambo Das

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-17 08:43:13

Judging from their unabashed worship of the god Mammon, I would argue that most televangelists are fervently “anti-Christian”.

Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-17 09:50:48

When I read this the first thing that popped into my mind was “Didn’t Jesus ride a donkey into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday?”

 
 
Comment by WatchingFromthe Sidelines
2008-09-17 09:09:10

He drove a Rolls-Royce, hosted a radio show and was pastor of New Hope Outreach Center in Jensen Beach.

Wow. He really hit the “unmistakeable signs of a con-man” trifecta.

 
Comment by pick
2008-09-17 09:48:47

Just for fun, google the name Shalonda McGill and read about her prior arrest. Then switch to images and see mug shots of both of them.

I wouldn’t trust these two with my collection of pennies.

 
 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-17 07:22:37

“While regulators were ‘asleep at the wheel,’ as one legislator put it, Florida racked up the highest home-loan fraud rate in the country - twice the national average.”

I didn’t realize being awake was a job requirement with the government.

Comment by jingle
2008-09-17 07:49:15

Andy, you’re bad…..oh wait, you already knew that….

 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-09-17 08:53:44

Being awake and making noise is one of the few ways to get fired in the government.

 
Comment by yogurt
2008-09-17 09:30:49

It’s not when you’re a Bush brother - either of them. And don’t say they’re not responsible - chief executive means just that.

 
Comment by Jon
2008-09-17 10:37:46

One man’s sleeping regulator is another man’s “Free Market”.

 
 
Comment by Mike in Miami
2008-09-17 07:49:44

” A lot of these folks mortgaged their house to come up with the down payment. Some of them are retired. It’s not easy for them”
Next time be more careful with your retirement money. Now quit your bitching and go back to work at Wal*Mart.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 08:30:03

I’m not sure if they have Walmart’s in bonnie old England but I get your drift. Again, and I hate to beat this to death but unless they planned on selling everything they owned, boarded the plane and vowed never to revert to the rule of the crown… why the hell did they ‘need’ to buy anything!

Aren’t there more “vaction rental” websites than you can shake a stick at? Were they going to become U.S citizens? Join the Men’s Auxiliary Band? No. They figured they could use it a few times and then turn around and make a quick buck as their specuvestment PAID for their “holiday”. E’f ‘em.

Comment by yogurt
2008-09-17 09:33:13

Multiply the problems with Brits in Florida 100 fold and you have the situation in Spain. The Spanish bust has rippled back to the UK and was one of the factors behind the bust now underway there.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 09:40:55

yogurt,

Oh that is not good. I heard HBOS ( UK’s largest res. lender ) is in serious trouble today! These “no habla’s” ( football fans that drink m/n&n ) and make no effort whatsoever to assimilate, have ‘got’ to be a valuable addition to any… society!

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Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-17 09:54:33

Agreed. They make us Ugly Americans look civilized.

 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-09-17 10:33:56

Read a book called “Among the Thugs.” The author befriends a group of soccer hooligans and follows them through England and continental Europe, providing a firsthand account of drunken mob violence. And we think Oakland Raiders fans are bad.

It’s not just an English phenomenon, though. Years ago I was in Argentina and thinking of attending a match. I was cautious and decided to watch one on television first. At the end of the game, the camera panned to the stands, where an all-out brawl was in progress between two “barras bravas.”

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-17 11:18:01

America is quite a violent place, but very seldom does it rear it’s ugly head in sporting events, as opposed to the hooliganism scene overseas…

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-09-17 08:08:02

“Though Lehman denied it, former [Lehman mortgage subsidiary] BNC employees said that the company falsified pay stubs, tax forms and other loan information - ‘anything to make the deal work,’ as one told the Wall Street Journal in 2007. Yet BNC and other subprime lenders operated largely beyond the reach of regulators.”

So what they’re saying is that the existing laws were in place to prevent the toxic mortgages, but the enforcement was lacking. I suspect that not funding regulatory agencies adequately is a big part of the reason for this. Why? Because fundamentally, this country was (gasp!) undertaxed at a time of record profits by an administration that was unapologetically opposed to any forms of gov’t oversight, and a lot of people were bribed to look the other way.

No, Koolaid drinkers…Lehman, Wall Street, and the free market did not police itself. This is the smoking gun.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-17 08:26:55

The free market DID police itself and complete anarchy was the result. Now the FED has started up his printing press to clean up the mess.

Comment by denquiry
2008-09-17 08:54:05

It’s only a “free market” when they take your hard earned money and “socialism” when you start to take their money. We are watching the parasite devour itself.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 09:24:32

denquiry,

I think you’re right. The line between the private/public sector is getting more blurred by the hour. Until someone can show me differently, lending standards over the last 20 years have been largely “self-imposed”. There always existed the potential for abuses. It’s just that most lenders in the past elected to take the high road?

Just to make my point perhaps a little more clear, notice how U.S Bank has remained blissfully clear of all of this? In fact, their latest ad campaign features the solid nature of their balance sheet, cash position and even has Willie Nelson’s “Blue Skies” featured in the soundtrack!

Were they ‘wrong’ to not join in the fray and feed at the public trough? I don’t know, only time will tell. If I were a Grundhoffer I would be screaming blue murder right now I can tell you THAT!

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Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-17 09:43:32

I’m a registed Libertarian so I can say this, but to quote Randi Rhodes, “It’s Republican policy to privatize profits and socialize losses.”

The proof is staring us in the face.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 09:55:46

Bad Andy,

That’s just proof these people are reading ‘our’ BB’s. ( We had been saying that on patrick.net since at least 2006 and HARM* an ocassional poster here should be given full credit )

But that’s missing the point. U.S Bank played by the rules. I can tell you from a very personal perspective ( we’ve been clients for over 20 years ) that their internal mortgage originators exercised ZERO authority in the underwriting/approval process! ) The gal we spoke w/ was like revisiting 1989. She said she was simply there to gather your information and then forward it for processing.

There was nothing implied that she could “make it fly” or grease the wheels or anything of the sort. USB normally KEEPS the loans they write! It was night and day from talking to some MB. I think obviously they have also elected to remain clear of the fire sale as well.

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-17 10:28:10

I guess I don’t get out much. I don’t listen to left wing talk radio that often either though…Still, I’d rather listen to the lefties rant than the ones who claim to be on the right.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 10:51:56

Bad Andy,

I didn’t mean to sound like USB’s “spokesperson” but it really -was- just that ‘odd’? My wife and I didn’t even believe such a process existed any more?

All this took place long before the credit crunch was widely known and when we asked she said “Oh we’ve always… done it this way!” Hmm? Everybody else is rubber stamping 720k loans for migrant workers and I’m gettin’ the 3rd degree about ancient entires on our C/R?

My point is simply ( just as ‘we’ have asked as private citizens and taxpayers ) where’s THEIR reward for playing by the rules!? I guess we could say, “Well good for you! You get to live to fight another day, so THERE!” but if you’re like me, that doesn’t feel quite right? I guess clean living is it’s own reward huh?

 
Comment by Sarcastic
2008-09-17 12:47:44

“Just to make my point perhaps a little more clear, notice how U.S Bank has remained blissfully clear of all of this?”

“U.S Bank played by the rules.”

Yeah right! I used to work for those clowns. You should have seen the crazy loans that came from the Brokered Loan Division. Lots of Helocs and piggy back home loans, etc. It makes Countrywide look sane. However most of that stuff was packaged into commercial paper. It will be interesting when that paper comes back to roost for them and when their accounting tricks unravel.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 13:48:58

“It makes Countrywide look sane”

The stock price ( in a battered sector ) certainly doesn’t lend itself to that appraisal. Wouldn’t you think if there were that many skeletons in their closet it would have surfaced by now? Certainly seems to for every other player in their peer group.

No offense ( as I know this from my own experience ) but if you want an update on a company, the last thing to do is talk to anyone that works/worked there? IMHO.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-09-17 09:35:59

In 1900 the average person living in the United States wanted seventy-two different things and considered eighteen of them essential. Today the average person wants five hundred things and considers one hundred of them essential.
Our obsession with stuff carries a hefty price tag. Eighty percent of us battle the pressure of overdue bills. We spend 110 percent of our disposable income trying to manage debt. And who can keep up? We no longer measure ourselves against the Joneses next door but against the star on the screen or the stud on the magazine cover…. Who can satisfy Madison Avenue? No one can. For that reason Jesus warns, “Guard against all kinds of greed”
Luke 12:15

Comment by Mo Money
2008-09-17 12:36:21

Exercise for today. Go into Kitchen and count how many different items there are that I can cook with. Variety is the spice of life and I refuse to feel bad about it.

 
Comment by ejguillot
2008-09-18 09:28:05

Not Mssing It,

That’s an interesting statistic you quote. Do you have a link to the 2 lists of things? I would be interested to see what changed in 108 years.

 
 
Comment by cereal
2008-09-17 09:39:20

The development was marketed as a vacation haven in the booming Four Corners area, where signs for vacation homes dot U.S. Highway 27.”

“‘”I was in England three weeks ago. A lot of these folks mortgaged their house to come up with the down payment.

It seems that if these limeys bought into FL for vacation homes then they are “locked” into a permanent destination for their vacation. Instead of dropping 3-400k into a home that doesn’t get used much, why not spend a couple of bills in the nicest Hilton, eat the lobster, pass out on the beach and go home a week later?

Then next year you can wash,rinse,repeat in FL, or try Cambria Big Sur instead. I don’t get it.

unless they were speculators simply banking on perpetual appreciation……………………………

Comment by cereal
2008-09-17 09:45:10

My Scotch/Irish blood mocks these idiots!

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-17 09:53:19

As does my Cornish/Scotch/Irish/German/English blood.

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-17 09:58:18

LOL! Here’s a good gaelic phrase my Scots grandmother used to reserve for the English:

Go n-ithe an cat thú, is go n-ithe an diabhal an cat!

May the cat devour you, and may the devil devour the cat.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-09-17 15:37:58

As does my Irish/German/English/French/Norwegian/Dutch oh heck smorgasbord blood

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 09:47:16

cereal,

And you hardly have to be a Limey for that to make sense. Ben has often reminded us that 2nd/vac. homes were simply another excuse to speculate. This evidently is the Trans-Atlantic version of the same game.

Many of those folks likely imagined they were just “supplementing” their retirement income and obviously had no idea just what kind of volatility they were exposing themselves to?

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-09-17 10:00:17

It seems that if these limeys bought into FL for vacation homes then they are “locked” into a permanent destination for their vacation.

Believe it or not, Disney has been making a killing with their “Vacation club”.. They sell prepaid hotel rooms at their Florida and California “resorts”, and by that I mean you are prepurchasing 20-30 years of vacations.

There has been no shortage of customers. It costs about 20K to buy in and there are annual fees as well. Similar to the timeshare concept, except that these are hotel rooms, not condos.

The selling point is that it is cheaper than booking rooms at these same hotels. No doubt a hook to guarantee future visits that will generate plenty of extra revenue: park tickets, meals, etc.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-17 10:32:22

For those like my family who made religious trips to FL every year to see the mouse, it makes good sense. I hate to say it, but Disney always offered a reasonable value for family enterainment as long as you played by their rules (book their hotels, buy multi-day tickets, etc).

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-17 11:06:57

And to think that my parents had no interest in Disney vacations. What a deprived child I was.

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Comment by Juno Moneta
2008-09-17 17:26:50

I don’t think Jesus was referring to ‘that’ as his type of KINGDOM….I mean, he did a lot of tricks….raising the dead…water to wine….blind seeing….
NNNOOOOO!!!! It couldn’t be, that Mickey, is the reincarnate…..

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Comment by Cowtown
2008-09-17 10:42:14

Sort of, not quite. You can research the details yourself but you can spend your points at places other than Disney resorts via reciprocity agreements. Also, you have it backwards - DVC accommodations are more like condos than hotels.

Full disclosure - we’ve been members since ‘95 and it has been a good value for us. I wouldn’t presume to suggest it’s a good value for everyone.

 
Comment by cereal
2008-09-17 10:43:19

There is a huge cult following for all that is Disney. I know a guy

who

has

been

to

Disneyland

26

times

this

year

alone.

He has a family of 4 that goes too. Even with season tickets the numbers are staggering. The poor fella just lost his j.o.b. as well and STILL goes to the magic kingdom faithfully

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-17 11:19:01

Buy him a copy of Buckaroo Bonzai, switch the addiction to something cheaper.

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Comment by SFC
2008-09-17 10:56:00

If someone told me that I had to spend my vacations at Disney every year for the next 20 or 30, I’d kill myself. Is Britain that boring, that this actually sounds good to them? Is there some sort of British infatuation with acres of plastic?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-17 11:08:18

No, Britain is not that boring. Just head over to the Celtic Fringe areas on the west side of the island. They’ll show you a good time.

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Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-17 11:15:23

I went to Orlando once and the LA version once. Both times I nearly had panic attacks, the rides were fine, it was all the people.

Stuck it out only for the kids I was taking.

You couldn’t drag me back even if I was dead.

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Comment by tresho
2008-09-17 11:32:28

You couldn’t drag me back even if I was dead. Different strokes for different folks.

 
Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-09-17 11:42:34

I’d rather hang out in a fantasyland of my own…

 
 
Comment by beachmouse
2008-09-17 11:50:41

The UK’s not boring. However, the weather really sucks, and I can understand the allure of an annual holiday from there to some place that wasn’t so gray, cold, and clammy all the time.

But in the end, it’s far cheaper to rent a beach condo in Spain or Florida than to buy and carry a place.

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Comment by snake charmer
2008-09-17 10:40:17

One of my all-time favorite articles in the Tampa Tribune appeared about 2005. The reporter questioned a condo conversions guru about whether former tenants would be able to afford the worn-down apartments he now was selling. He replied that he didn’t care because he had investors from “Britain, Russia, wherever.”

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-09-17 10:59:25

He forgot the baby boomers.

 
 
 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-09-17 11:01:57

“For consumers, ‘if you’re credit is a little shaky, it’s bad news for you,’ said David Denslow, an economist at the University of Central Florida. ‘If you’re credit is sterling, I don’t think it will affect you a lot.’”

Gee, and all along I thought this was just plain common sense! However, it now it takes a University economist to inform the public of what most of us knows as common sense.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-09-17 11:10:27

What if you have sterling credit but aren’t interested in borrowing money?

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-09-17 11:16:49

Loser.

:)

 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2008-09-17 13:43:13

I’ve found it very difficult to actually *get* sterling credit without borrowing money. The only way to jack up that FICO score is to use credit cards or borrow money. When you use credit cards you’re giving a percentage to the banks. That percentage gets tacked on to the purchase price — the store doesn’t loose it. And these days, cash is so retro.

 
 
Comment by SFC
2008-09-17 11:14:58

I think that he should have said “for those of you that pay back your obligations, you will get to buy the stuff of the slugs that never have, for pennies on the dollar. For those of you that don’t pay back your obligations, please familiarize yourself with the local ‘buy here, pay-here’ car dealer, and pawn shop”.

Comment by DinOR
2008-09-17 12:45:20

SFC,

Funny you’d say that b/c I mirrored that almost identically just moments ago on our local PDX blog.

That aside I have a very good friend that I’ve known for years that pays the few bills he ‘does’ have ( utilities and the like ) with money orders, has never owned anything that’s new and when I picked him up in SoCal ( of all places ) he had jars and jugs filled w/ quarters to go to Vegas!

He’s basically “Bernie Leplant” ( Dustin Hoffman from the movie Hero ) The guy doesn’t owe ANYBODY! In fact if you ever mention “shopping” in front of him I’m sure what he’s picturing in his mind IS a pawn shop! His house is paid for. Just weird.

 
 
 
Comment by ChillintheOC
2008-09-17 12:23:35

I hate to say it, but Disney always offered a reasonable value for family enterainment
——————————————————————————
Yeah…just as long as you don’t need to eat! The food prices at Disney World are beyond outrageous. I think this is done primarily to target foreign visitors since they seem to be OK paying $ 7 for a Mickey Burger.

Comment by incredulous
2008-09-17 12:54:20

Actually disney prices don’t seem so bad after you go to a couple of professional sports games.

 
 
Comment by Monte
2008-09-17 12:50:56

“Disney always offered a reasonable value for family enterainment”

Huh? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Sorry but I couldnt help but laugh. Disney is the most overpriced POS there is. Sure they have some cool shows a rides, but everything else is waaaaaay overpriced!

Save some $$$ and go fishing, camping, etc with your kids and have more fun and memories instead.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-09-17 15:53:23

Hey, that’s my signature line.

And here’s how it’s done:

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Amateurs, I tell you. No professionalism left even to an art form. :-D

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2008-09-17 13:13:32

OT, but we do have AIG on our faces now. The Pig (Dow) closed down almost 450 points. So much for confidence. AIG=Bad move. A real backfire.

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-09-17 13:51:06

“‘People thought they were getting involved in a real estate investment where he was going to mentor them,’ said Detective Ted Padich of the Florida Department of Financial Services. ‘What (the McGills) did was simply sell them homes that they already owned.’”

Seems to me that was an effective first lesson.

 
Comment by jbunniii
2008-09-17 13:59:18

It’s a trip down Memory Lane: the stock market is back to 2005 levels, and DataQuick says SoCal median house prices are now back where they were in 2003. I expect further improvement on both fronts!

 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2008-09-17 20:56:08

People who have been on this blog for years knew this day would come
when the panic would start . For me ,after talking about it for about 3 years now ,it’s weird to have the panic start to arrive . When my next door neighbor who is a dimwit goes into panic mode ,you know Joe six-pack is on to the insecurities in the markets .

Will the panic get deeper ?The ax that has been over me for years has been how the losses will be taken ,including the inflation tax ,and of course how to protect myself and family and how to survive a long period of a down market ,or inflation destroying buying power .
Right before me I’m seeing long term institutions falling daily ,and its really a sight to see .Seeing the government bail-outs and take- overs are also really mind-blowing . Will people finally figure out that America needs to get productive again and selling real estate to each other isn’t going to cut it . Will law and order be restored ,as well as proper regulations ? Do we have to worry about a increase in crime ,will people remain somewhat orderly as the money shrinks ?

Actually I’m glad people are talking turkey now because it was driving me nuts that the great awakening was being stalled . Now maybe there is a possible chance that the BS cheer-leading in the wrong direction will end and America might really go into a productive course
of action now.

 
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