Stop Smoking Crack - Don’t Take The Loan
A report from the Associated Press. “Existing home sales in the Midwest tumbled nearly 18 percent in August from last year, while the median sales price in the region fell 5.6 percent to $168,000, the National Association of Realtors said. The median sales price fell in nine cities in the AP-Re/Max report. The biggest declines were in Detroit, Cleveland and Minneapolis.”
“Holly and Bryan O’Connor sold their home in Omaha, Neb. for $115,000 last month after listing it for sale since March. In Omaha, the median sales price in August was $112,000, down 2.6 percent from last year. Sales there were down 25 percent.”
‘Sellers need to price their homes aggressively to compete in a buyer’s market these days, said David Matney, their real estate agent. ‘If they don’t’ have to sell, then now’s not the time to just test the market,’ he said.”
The Kansas City Star. “While on probation from a previous Kansas City federal bank fraud conviction in 2003, Raymond Zwego began constructing his own little housing bubble. He purchased 61 area properties, in many cases using straw buyers and falsified paperwork. He fueled the exercise by illegally obtaining $16.9 million in mortgages.”
“According to federal court records, 54 of Zwego’s 61 property closings during that period eventually resulted in $5.6 million in losses to 25 mortgage lenders, including some of the biggest names in the industry, such as Washington Mutual and Countrywide Financial. One lender, IndyMac Bank, closed earlier this year.”
“Nearly 50 of Zwego’s closings resulted in foreclosures, and many of those homes still stand vacant.”
“At Zwego’s sentencing on federal mortgage fraud charges Tuesday, his lawyer, Daniel Harrington, acknowledged that the bygone days of anything-goes mortgage lending contributed to his client’s crimes.”
“‘If the mortgage industry was then what it is now, this wouldn’t have happened,’ Harrington said.”
From St Louis Today. “In St. Louis, prices fell in most of the 10 counties surveyed by the Post-Dispatch, including a 12 percent drop in the city of St. Louis. Whatever their situation, people are holding back for now, said Stephanie Tonnies, CEO of the Realtor Association of Southwestern Illinois, and that’s keeping sales down.”
“It may be a tough time to sell, she said, but it’s a great time to buy. ‘I tell people it’s like walking into a department store and seeing a big overstock sale,’ Tonnies said. ‘It’s a big, happy sale.’”
The South Town Star from Illinois. “Chicago-area sales of existing homes tumbled 30 percent last month compared with August 2007, and the National Association of Realtors blamed ‘overly tight’ lending criteria for keeping would-be buyers out of the market. Sale prices also fell, primarily because of a buildup of unsold homes.”
“Mortgage lenders have adopted stricter standards for loaning money, but Richard Gaylord, the NAR’s president, said lenders had gone too far in tightening loan criteria.”
“‘Our hope is that overly tight lending criteria can be loosened with reasonable standards and credit so that sales activity can catch up with demand,’ he said.”
The Chicago Tribune from Illinois. “From near the top of the 92-story Trump International Hotel & Tower, one can look down on the city skyline and proof of a frozen real estate market that is derailing the plans of local developers, sellers and buyers.”
“The tower is ‘the only building that got built, and the skeletons of the other ones are strewn all over the place,’ Trump said. ‘The days of building buildings like this are over. It will take 10 years to finance buildings like this.’”
“Trump’s son, Donald Jr., who is overseeing construction, called Chicago a very weak market. ‘People are dead in the water,’ he said. ‘We’re thrilled to be making the sales we’re making. I’d like to be more sold than we are.’”
“The current state of the market is causing Trump to seek more time to repay the more than $770 million in construction loans from lenders. The loans would then be due in the middle of next year, Trump Jr. said.”
“‘There are no buyers and that’s the problem,’ said Liz Sidorowicz, an agent in Chicago. ‘Buyers are scared or they just can’t get the financing. [The bailout] does not change one thing. The banks may be a little better off, but on Main Street, how is that going to help my guy with a condo appraised at $240,000 that he cannot even sell for $200,000?’”
“Trump acknowledged that if he just started his project, it likely wouldn’t get built. ‘Unless I used my own money, it would be impossible,’ he said. ‘The banks are out of business. The sad thing is, it’s a blight for cities.’”
The Detroit Free Press. “In Michigan, the average sales price in July, the most recent data, was $123,139, a 13.5% drop from the $142,290 average price in July 2007. Sales of existing homes from January to July were down 1.4% to 57,101, according to the Michigan Association of Realtors.”
“‘The difficulty in obtaining a mortgage increased over the past couple months, making it more challenging for creditworthy borrowers to find financing,’ said Richard Gaylord, president of the association.”
“Gaylord said he had serious concerns about whether the $700-billion bailout Congress is considering would ease credit for people wanting to buy homes.”
“‘Historically, housing had led the nation out of economic doldrums. There will not be an economic recovery without a housing recovery,’ said Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the national Realtors group.”
From WZZM 13 in Michigan. “As summer comes to an end, a new report shows foreclosures in West Michigan are getting worse. Despite the suffering housing market in Grand Rapids, a West Michigan developer is about to start working on a new condo project, though it will not require any new building construction.”
“The steps at Bethlehem Lutheran Church have gone unused for quite some time, but now a local developer wants to revitalize the church, turning it into condos. Every condo will be highly customizable, ranging in price from $200,000 to $1.6 million.”
“Kevin Moore, the man who wants to develop the old Bethlehem Lutheran Church building into condos, says most importantly, his team realizes this is much more than a piece of real estate.”
“‘We’ve tried never to lose sight of the fact that this was actually a church where people were married and baptized,’ Moore said. ‘Once we’re done with this project, Grand Rapids will be mentioned in the same breath with London, New York, Boston, Toronto, Paris. We like that idea a lot.’”
The Gazette Extra from Wisconsin. “Despite population growth, Walworth County homes are selling for less money or not selling at all. Local realtors say it’s the worst market they’ve seen in years, said Mike VanderBunt of the Lakes Area Realtors Association.”
“‘This county has seen inventory this year unlike any other year,’ he said. ‘It’s history.’”
The number of houses sold in Walworth County this year has plummeted by 30 percent compared to the same time in 2007, according to MLS statistics. The median price of homes sold in Walworth County was $188,900 in the second quarter this year, compared to $202,500 in 2007, a 6.7 percent drop, according to the Wisconsin Realtors Association.”
“It was the first decline in eight years. ‘Sellers right now are negotiable, and if they’re not willing to negotiate, they’re not going to sell their home,’ VanderBunt said.”
“The housing market will rebound, said Royce DeBow, southeastern Wisconsin’s governmental affairs director for the Wisconsin Realtors Association. ‘It’s not great like it has been for so many years, but it’s still good,’ DeBow said.”
From KARE 11 in Minnesota. “When Russ and Patty Hageman built in Princeton two years ago, their house was both a dream home and a great investment. Then gas prices doubled, food costs soared, and though they’d never missed a payment, they’re now two months behind.”
“‘This is not in our character to do this,’ Russ Hageman said. ‘But we have no real option.’”
‘Their only choice, he says, is selling the house for less than what they owe. Valued at $274,000, it’s now listed for $189,000, and most of their neighbors are doing the same.’
“‘I’ve been doing this for 11 years and I’ve never seen anything like this,’ said Kristie Bernard, a realtor with Keller Williams. ‘It’s amazing.’”
“So much that Bernard and real estate agent Rich Carlson say half their listings are now short sales and foreclosures. For buyers, it can mean six figure discounts in a market that may still be dropping.”
“But for sellers like the Hagemans, it means moving to a rental. ‘Both my wife and I are in our late 40s and we’re kind of starting over again,’ said Russ Hageman.”
“And their 274 thousand dollar home? ‘We’ll be lucky to get an offer at $170,000,’ said Bernard.”
The Twin Cities Daily Planet from Minnesota. “Thursday, September 18 was not a typical lunch hour at Edina Realty. On that day, a group of real estate agents gathered in a conference room with members of zAmya Theater Project and participated in a theater workshop aimed at finding solutions to the housing crisis.”
“The title of this year’s production is A Little Foreclosed House on the Stolen Prairie. The ensemble have been giving workshops to different groups as they develop their piece. The purpose of the workshops is for people to learn about homeless in a fun way and to share their thoughts.”
“The troupe performed a short skit that took place at the Salvation Army. In that scene, there were three characters-all dealing with financial troubles. One man had a history of bad credit and was having a hard time finding a job. Another was trying to fight the cycle of homelessness. A third man was contemplating a sub-prime loan.”
“Following the skit, the actors faced the audience. ‘What would you do?’ they asked. Maren Ward of Bedlam theatre said that when they did the same skit and asked the same question to the audience at the Salvation Army, the audience’s answers ranged from ‘read the paper’ to ‘don’t take the loan’ to ‘get a job’ to ’stop smoking crack.’”
“One group created a skit to demonstrate how someone from a non-profit agency could help get one of the men a grant in order to buy a home. Another group created a skit presenting an alternative for the man who has bad credit and couldn’t get a job. (They suggested that he focus on keeping with one job and applying for smaller loans as he builds better credit.)”
“A third group made statues indicating the emotional spectrum of the loan officers. A fourth group, instead of creating a skit, made a bubble chart about the causes of the sub-prime loan crisis. The fifth group discussed the relationship between today’s foreclosure crisis and the broken treaties made with Native Americans.”
‘Every condo will be highly customizable, ranging in price from $200,000 to $1.6 million.’
‘It was the first decline in eight years. ‘It’s not great like it has been for so many years, but it’s still good,’ DeBow said.’
No bubble in the midwest, eh?
And a good morning to Mr Trump. A little indigestion to go with those cheerios?
‘Trump’s son, Donald Jr. called Chicago a very weak market. ‘People are dead in the water,’ he said. ‘We’re thrilled to be making the sales we’re making. I’d like to be more sold than we are.’ The current state of the market is causing Trump to seek more time to repay the more than $770 million in construction loans from lenders. The loans would then be due in the middle of next year, Trump Jr. said.’
Sun-times reported the other day that there were still at least 25% of the units unsold at Trump, and they’re just about to cap the top of the building. If I’m not mistaken, that’s pretty much the same number they bandied about last year. I think he had a pretty good number of sales initially and then splat.
Trump has built a large condo tower in my neighborhood that from I understand is over 50% vacant. I wonder who he now expects to buy $500k 1br apartments. It will be interesting to see what happens to many of these “luxury” buildings in the year or two.
Where’s that, Frank?
Jersey City
http://www.njtrump.com/
LOL.
Joisey City. I pity the fools, I really do.
(Insert gold bling-bling here.)
Even with the events of the past few weeks, and how dependent this area is on the financial industry denial is still thick here. I have a feeling most of the builders are in so much trouble the only options they have are to pray for a few greater fools to come along or bankruptcy.
The area is beyond nuked.
Jas told me just yesterday there was no bubble in the Midwest - even though he posted that Milwaukee was down -28%.
Seriously, Chicago was best when it was affordable. Those savvy condo investors are going to get pounded. What they did with their gentrification was to push the marginal folks into SFH areas in some of the outer neighborhoods and inner suburbs.
Now we have SFH areas experiencing disinvestment while the core of the city is crammed with overpriced condos that will not sell. Thanks alot investors and developers - the whole city is now out of whack.
Seriously, Chicago was best when it was affordable.
Yes. I look forward to the return of some f$#@# affordability. Chicago is no fancy-pants town, attempts to transform it into a yuppie paradise notwithstanding.
Those savvy condo investors are going to get pounded.
I sincerely hope you’re right. I’m fairly confident you are.
I really love Chicago, February notwithstanding.
It had no business partying as hard as it did, and now it’s gonna get pounded harder than a two-bit wh*re.
Oh well!
I think we can even extend that to the Western Suburbs as well. Sure, we had tough winters ( as Faster Pussycat so generously notes ) but jobs were plentiful and the cost of living among the cheapest for ANY major metro area.
Trump talks about “blight”!? YOU Sir… are “blight”!
Just for the record, if I ever become wealthy, I dream of owning a mansion in Kenwood.
I know, I know, this is unbecoming but whatever…
was he serious on that? I thought he was joking and just ignored that response.
If he was being serious…well, Jas, what you been smokin, dude?
“Trump acknowledged that if he just started his project, it likely wouldn’t get built. ‘Unless I used my own money, it would be impossible,’ he said. ‘The banks are out of business. The sad thing is, it’s a blight for cities.’”
__________________________
Well, there now can be no doubt that ground will not be broken on the proposed Trump Tower Tampa. And I thought we were going to be right up there with London and Paris! Now we’ll be mentioned in the same breath as Grand Rapids.
America is about to fall apart at the seams financially, but skits will save us…
========================================
“One group created a skit to demonstrate how someone from a non-profit agency could help get one of the men a grant in order to buy a home. Another group created a skit presenting an alternative for the man who has bad credit and couldn’t get a job. (They suggested that he focus on keeping with one job and applying for smaller loans as he builds better credit.)”
“A third group made statues indicating the emotional spectrum of the loan officers. A fourth group, instead of creating a skit, made a bubble chart about the causes of the sub-prime loan crisis. The fifth group discussed the relationship between today’s foreclosure crisis and the broken treaties made with Native Americans.”
I’m not buying into the falling apart thing. These players need to go. It’s odd how people are so fearful of change. Almost everyone now agrees the system was screwed up. But let some corrupt, worthless corporation close it’s doors and people run around pulling their hair out like it’s the end of the world.
These banks need to go under to clean out the system.
They killed their golden goose.
The fed still has its printing press. They have been “injecting liquidity into the markets” without anything to say from congress.
It’s an invisible tax, but it protects the average citizens FDIC insured deposits. They know when grandma queues up around some bank to get her money then the pitchforks and 38’s make their way to the courthouse steps.
If you want to put construction people back to work, build around 300 new nuclear plants and you solve the energy problem at the same time. Lots of good paying jobs will be left in the wake.
“If you want to put construction people back to work, build around 300 new nuclear plants and you solve the energy problem at the same time. Lots of good paying jobs will be left in the wake.”
I wouldn’t mind feeding at that trough until retirement.
“……build around 300 new nuclear plants……”
Unlike single-family home construction, nuclear plants have antiquated rules called “standards” and “quality control” and “specifications” that they must adhere to.
Like a local electrical contractor…..they have two divisions, residential and commercial. All the experienced guys are in the commercial division, all the newbies work residential.
This is another pipe dream……..that infrastructure spending will put a bunch of homebuilders back to work.
The typical homebuilder “GED with a nailgun” employee just doesn’t have the skillset.
I’m unashamedly pro-nuke, but even so, I recognize pork/corporate welfare when I see it.
Nuke plants are not enough. We need integrated intermodal transport too. Over long distances, freight should be moving by rail and barge. Nuke plants are only part of a solution. It makes no sense to take on all those risks if transport remains petro dominated.
There is a connection between nuclear power and rail — trains can run on electricity, semi-trucks can’t.
Use the nuke plants to power high speed maglev rail. Coast to coast in 12 hours. East coast, west coast and right down the middle. Maybe go diagonal across the US too.
Use the nuke plants to power high speed maglev rail.
Heh, open up all that upstate NY land to commuters… Folks are already doing 2+ hours each way, imagine 300mph from, say, Syracuse to NYC? Or a I-90 Express: Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse/Albany, then down the Hudson to NYC..
I am not so sure. The problems I see are more systemic. It is not just about our indebtedness as a nation or the failure of a few corrupt banks. It is about issues like our education system, which appears to produce results in inverse proportion to the amount of money spent. Offshoring of our jobs and a host of social issues we are not permitted to speak of for PC reasons.
Worst of all, we seem to think that we all have a right to some cushy well paid job. Our antiquated patent system has flooded our technology markets with broad and baseless patents, which while intended to stoke the flames of innovation, now only serve are roadblocks to all.
With regards to offshoring, I find it amusing that it is the companies which thought to save a buck on labor which are now finding our strangled wages are coming home to roost in the form of inability to maintain the debt which was kindly provided to replace those lost wages.
With regards to offshoring, I find it amusing that it is the companies which thought to save a buck on labor which are now finding our strangled wages are coming home to roost in the form of inability to maintain the debt which was kindly provided to replace those lost wages.
I agree. It should have been obvious even to a child.
It’s not so much a deep secret that our country was falling apart, but it was the public’s reliance upon believing fairy tales that was shattered, this month.
“These players need to go.”
That’s what I keep telling my rep and senators when I make my daily phone call. Enuf already.
Ben,
I’ll have to agree. Some of us here are “vets” of:
Y2K
Election of 2000
Tech Wreck
Enron/Worldcom/Tyco/Martha Stewart
Mutual Fund late trading/market timing scandal
…Election of 2004!
Subprime Meltdown
Credit Lock-up
and of course the S&L Bailout back in the day ( yet “I’m” still here!? ) But given all these unpleasant events, how would you rank this current debacle?
I’ve said for a while this should be the biggest financial event of our lifetimes. We should expect fireworks and hysteria like we’ve never seen. But he who keeps his head when all around are losing theirs…
I fully expect for a brief moment in time, to be one of the few people with sight, in a country full of financially blind people, and opportunity will be knocking on my door, pleading to get in.
…might not fully understand what’s going on.
Hahaha! Just teasing you there, Ben. It just came to me, and I couldn’t waste it, because waste is a sin.
Sigh. I can tell that everyone around me is in for a rough Friday. I hope no one throttles me.
Ben,
And I recall your saying that pretty clearly, so I wasn’t being flippant about it, nor offering previous events as to exaggerate scale. I simply wanted to point out that as Americans, it’s just our nature to go from one screw up to the next? ( No matter how ashamed we might appear for the pervious )
Agreed, Ben.
It really is extraordinary, isn’t it, to be sitting in this maelstrom while there is complete chaos out there.
The hystericals included (you know who you are), I’d argue that the average reader of this blog is far better prepared than others.
…might not fully understand what’s going on.
Be the first to panic is the motto around our house.
Unlike many her, I don’t think that a huge percentage of the population is stupid. It’s just that in the economic climate we’ve had in the past 10-15 years, everybody has been working harder and longer, trying to get things done with less and less, that nobody has had the time to sit down and research the issue, or think about it.
The media could do it……..but it would take a lot longer than the 2-3 minutes they typically dedicate to a story.
What it needs is an hour long “special” on a show like “60 Minutes”
When people understand what has been going on behind the scenes in the banking industry, they get really pi##ed.
The good news is that many of the local/regional banks seem to have recognized the Ponzi scheme, and avoided it. (when I sold my house in 2004, the buyers commented on how the local bank spent a lot of time verifying income before they pre-qualified).
“Unlike many her, I don’t think that a huge percentage of the population is stupid. It’s just that in the economic climate we’ve had in the past 10-15 years, everybody has been working harder and longer, trying to get things done with less and less, that nobody has had the time to sit down and research the issue, or think about it.”
Thank-you for saying this. If I had a nickel for every time I hear how dumb everyone *else* is (from the speaker), I could perform some bailouts myself! Most people aren’t geniuses, but most aren’t stupid either. That’s why advertising is aimed at your emotions, not your intellect. It’s easier to circumvent.
Ben, I’ve always agreed with you, that “biggest financial event of our lifetimes” but that there would be opportunity in the chaos and hysteria. I still believe that.
But even with all the years I’ve been waiting for things to break loose and return to sanity, even _I_ was scared by the Paulson and Bernanke show starting last Friday.
I always assumed that one of the reasons that Hoover looked like such an idiot in the hindsight of history was that he was trying to _talk_ confidence to create confidence. In other words, even he didn’t believe the “economy is fine” and “the end is in sight”.
It scared me to by P & B panicing by all appearances.
I was also quite surprised by Bush’s speech a couple of days back, where he fairly coherently outlined the problems, and seemed scared by the possibilities if we didn’t manage to prop up the system.
So in spite of having years to prepare mentally, they scared me.
Not that I don’t _still_ intend to profit handsomely on the ride down, as soon as the freakin idiots at the SEC remove the ban on shorts. Grrr…
Yep.
We need change and this is how it happens.
I also think the reason that we’re seeing such a big backlash (which I’m happy about) is Joe 6pack doesn’t see the crisis. Bank still open? Check. Can get food/gas? Check. Access to a house/home? Check. Job still here? For most of us, check. What’s the problem Mr. Paulson?
Average Americans are still in brain dead, boring community banks which are mostly solvent. Maybe we have retirement funds at risk in this whole thing. But what’s the panic unless you are an investment banker?
Is there anyone else who finds it outrageous that these asshats at Edina Realty are equating a down housing market with homelessness? What kind of frackin retards are we dealing with here? How about a). Talking about lowering the prices of the homes so that folks can afford them without becoming house poor?
b). RENT if you can’t afford to buy a house! Move into a house with 10 other tenants, move in with Mom, go join the Army, whatever. Folks don’t need to go sleep under a bridge just because they can’t afford to buy a house fer chrissakes! God, these folks are just plain stupid. You don’t need to put on a skit to figure out how to fix this debacle. If these idiots would spend the time necessary to convince sellers to DRAMATICALLY lower their prices instead of hoping a greater fool will stumble by and bail their dumbass out of debt, everyone would be better served.
“Is there anyone else who finds it outrageous that these asshats at Edina Realty are equating a down housing market with homelessness?”
yes. I was too busy laughing to really work up a good outrage, though.
look at these jewels:
“A third group made statues indicating the emotional spectrum of the loan officers.”
“A fourth group, instead of creating a skit, made a bubble chart about the causes of the sub-prime loan crisis.”
“The fifth group discussed the relationship between today’s foreclosure crisis and the broken treaties made with Native Americans.”
SNL can give its writers the week off, the scripts are all right her.
“‘Historically, housing had led the nation out of economic doldrums. There will not be an economic recovery without a housing recovery,’ said Lawrence Yun, chief economist for the national Realtors group.”
What’s mind numbing is these mouth pieces keep using the word “historically’. Sorry Yun, there is no historical comparison that can come close to matching what we are seeing. So shut TF up, it does not wash anymore.
Enough with the Chairman Mao routine, Yun. People have to have jobs and income to buy houses. So, no housing recovery without economic recovery.
palmetto,
Well said. Besides as wmbz notes didn’t the onset of WWII spare the nation ( not housing? ) Wasn’t it technology and the NASDAQ that led us out of the “doldrum” of the late 80’s?
Aside from wondering where Mr. Yun finds his “historic precedents” interesting to note the REIC is near silent about the Bailout? Of late their comments are much more from “street level” than the Big Picture? ( Hide under your desk much? ) Reminds of the shame you felt as a kid watching a classmate get balled out for something you knew full well YOU did!
Yun is what you get when you have globalization and lax immigration enforcement. He’d make a fine economist. For China. I could understand Lieareah and his shilling during the boom, it was in the finest American snake oil salesman tradition. But during a bust, you have this guy spouting propaganda worthy of Chairman Mao. He’s a complete embarrassment and I dunno how the NAR dug him up.
“Yun is what you get when you have globalization and lax immigration enforcement. He’d make a fine economist. For China.”
Lawrence Yun is Korean, not Chinese.
Even as a dumbass redneck, you are an incompetent boob.
He didn’t say he was chinese, he was illustrating a visual.
“He’d make a fine economist. For China.” ie.. standing at the podium telling the facts as the dictator tells him to.
he could have used the bagdad bob reference if that would make it so your (cry baby) PC feelings aren’t hurt.
Grow a pair, George Salt. Who cares what Yun’s ancestry is. The guy’s a lying propagandist. Are you defending him?
Yun’s involvment in this great housing debacle should not be forgotten along with that brilliant David Lereah. They contributed greatly to what is happening now. The continuous cheerleading that house prices only go up. I’ve read that the FBI is investigating mortgage brokerages and financial institutions. The FBI needs to investigate the NAR and their propaganda and minions of kool-aid servers who pushed people along in the process of buying homes they could not afford. Let’s not let NAR slip under the radar!
“‘Our hope is that overly tight lending criteria can be loosened with reasonable standards and credit so that sales activity can catch up with demand,’ he said.”
Lending only appears overly tight right now, because prices of homes are still disconnected from incomes. There are very few banks wanting to loan more than a person can reasonably repay right now, give the underlying price of the home financed will almost certainly tank over the next 5 years.
I was in Chicago for a meeting and my wife and I took an architecture boat tour on the river. I was shocked at the amount of building still taking place including Trump. There is a building planned called the Chicago Spire which I’m sure won’t get built http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Spire.
20% to ACORN
and union crap
wow, kill this pig now
let’s see who’s hooked up w ACORN ?????????????
Absolute poetry…ish…
What did I miss what does ACORN have to do with bailout?
It’s either feast or famine with taxme. We go days…weeks… months without seeing him employ any of that of those capitalization and punctuation English-language thingies and now lookit this! Twelve (12) question marks in ONE little sentence!
It’s like, total overload for me, and I could well faint.
See, taxme, instead of shooting your punctuation wad in one sentence, if you instead parsed out that overload of question marks, one here, one there, you could sprinkle them like decorative and illuminative candies throughout many other of your proclamations. Think how exciting that would be!
I believe it was the crack in the headline that drew taxme into the discussion today, although I could be wrong.
LOL!!!
ROTFLMAO
LOL! And I’m so glad that I’m not eating, drinking, or needing to answer the call of nature. Oly, that was a good comment.
The comment almost made me want to become Good Andy…almost.
‘Once we’re done with this project, Grand Rapids will be mentioned in the same breath with London, New York, Boston, Toronto, Paris. We like that idea a lot.’”
Whatever you say, Mr. Moore!
I laughed out loud when I read that - even a snort or two!
Oh dear, the delusions of grandeur.
Leigh
Oh, geez. This is the kind of delusional crap I can’t stand. I’ve been to Grand Rapids. Used to work in the field for a company based there. It’s a pleasant little city with very nice people. And that’s OK with me. Paris is the BO capital of the world. At least people in Grand Rapids shower from time to time.
I was just in Paris. Not only did every one look great, dressed impeccably, they smelled just fine. And I was there at the hottest part of the year.
I love Paris. sigh.
Me too. Paris is a piece of art. Rome is another visual “O”, with generally great people too. It’s funny, I liked the pizza in Paris better than Rome.
“I liked the pizza in Paris better than Rome.”
me, too. mmm, pizza. fresh out of a wood-burning oven.
ella,
I came back a size 1, after eating my way through Europe, but walking and subway-ing it everywhere. They sure have walkable cities.
oh, good for you. yes, they do have walkable cities, don’t they? I live within walking distance to my job. It’s better for your health, but also your head (traffic makes me really grumpy and stressed out).
all cities should be walkable: less fat, less pollution, less sitting in a car or bus shaking your fist.
That area of Michigan is my old stomping grounds. This guy is beyond delusional. He must be an Amway distributor.
Bingo.
But he’s converting a CHURCH. That’s got to appeal to a large segment of the population there.
True story from another city in Michigan…
Just north of downtown Ann Arbor, there are the remains of a Greek Orthodox Church. A good friend’s office is just across the street.
Friend told me that there was a plan to convert the church into a combination commercial/residential building. But the project went kerflewie, and thus, the church hulk was just sitting there.
But the building does have occupants. Friend said that it had become a homeless camp.
I’m for redevelopment, but who in their right mind would buy/lease into something like a church.
ot, but interesting enough, the Church Of Scientology building-Sunset Blvd. (headqtrs for the area?) use to be Cedars of Lebbanon Hospital. I’m a huge Gershwin fan, and that’s where George died of a brain tumor.
Having done time at the University of Michigan, I can say that, for the most part, people from Grand Rapids are polite, cheerful, and know how to use soap and water.
OH MY FREAKIN’ GOD!!!!!!!
Just when you think you’ve heard it all. Who the h e l l is this moron???
1.6 million for a condo just ’cause someone said “I do” there??
Not only that, but Grand Rapids doesn’t even get mentioned in the same breath as Detroit or Cleveland as it is, and they think they’ll get compared to London, New York et al??? Insane.
I’ve got some land here in FL to sell these bozo developers.
Grand Rapids is way nicer than Detroit or Cleveland. But is highly unlikely that it will EVER become an internationally known cultural center. It’s too small and the people there like it that way.
I sincerely hope that comment was tongue in cheek….
Have you ever taken a drive down I-75 through Detroit?
I lived in GR for years, in the same area as the church mentioned. I fell out of my chair laughing when I read the comment about Grand Rapids being mentioned in the same breath as Tokyo, etc. Becoming the cultural capital of the Midwest is something GR has been striving for for many years but an over-priced condo project is absolutely not going to make that happen.
I agree with a commenter above who said the guy must be an Amway salesman. They have the ability to muster enthusiasm for losing propositions like (almost) no one else.
I hate to mention this but where exactly IS Grand Rapids? I never was very good at geometry.
People don’t know the difference between geometry and geography. This is what’s wrong with this country.
‘Once we’re done with this project, Grand Rapids will be mentioned in the same breath with London, New York, Boston, Toronto, Paris. We like that idea a lot.’
A place is ultimately about the people, not a building or buildings. The buildings are a reflection of the people. Absent a large infusion of narcotics, Grand Rapids will never be mentioned in the same breath as London. Yet one more delusional developer that thinks their condo project is going to turn their city into the new __________ .
Politicians keep spewing they don’t want golden parachutes for executives. I would go one step further. Those ‘executives’ involved on these fraudulent entities should have all assets frozen and/or stripped, and be tossed into never-ending debtor’s prison (with unending stories of real sob stories due to their crimes). Same for guilty politicians, Fed people like Greedspam, etc.
Good dream, but I hear ya.
I’ve said it before:”
Rob a bank with a gun, get 20 years.
Rob a bank with a pen, get 2-4 years.”
We seem to honor intelligence, more than character. There is a lot of evil genius out there.
Or better yet!
Why rob a bank ( when you can just walk right in, sign a few doc’s and rob your OWN HOUSE!? )
I know I’ve said we’ve in essence created a “new class” of criminal but I’ve yet to come up with a suitable term?
Since this is essentially equity skimming (and) through embellishment and fraudulent loan application (largely) I think the closest criminal we have is the embezzler?
Skimbezzler?
Emskimmer?
Loanster?
Hell I’m open!
Walworth county is so dependent on the Chicago market (for 2nd homes, what have you), and it’s telling that they dropped 30% in sales, just as Chicago has in last year. For those who aren’t familiar, Lake Geneva is in Walworth and it’s a pretty big tourist destination for Chicagoans. Think fudge and antiques and all that.
Acquaintance of mine is working this summer up at the Grand Geneva resort–says bar sales/hotel occupancy also down about 30% over the year.
It’s worth looking at the article just to see the picture with the sea of real estate signs in Elkhorn, of all places.
There’s nowhere to run from this.
I love Walworth county and I love the kettle moraine. It’s one of my favorite places in wisconsin and I like that it’s only 2 hours away.
I’m smack dab just over the Walworth line.
The Kettle Moraine is my backyard!
Yay me!
Leigh
Kettle Moraine is awesome.
You’re lucky!
I bike there often. One of the best trails close enough to be a day trip.
I’ve three siblings that live in the kettle moraine areas - great area, more scenic than any outsiders might suspect.
Glorious summers up there…better than the Catskills & Finger Lakes, IMO.
‘Unless I used my own money, it would be impossible,’
I know this is a wise business strategey, but I think it’s also the most succinct description of the problem I’ve seen yet.
“The purpose of the workshops is for people to learn about homeless in a fun way”
I loved grover dearly (I still do) but maybe sesame street was a bad idea after all. not every thing in this world is supposed to be fun.
Also: is it too early to remake Waiting for Guffman? “A Little Foreclosed House on the Stolen Prairie” sounds like it’s begging to be made into a dark comedy.
‘Once we’re done with this project, Grand Rapids will be mentioned in the same breath with London, New York, Boston, Toronto, Paris. We like that idea a lot.’”
Ummm…yeah. Mentioned in the same breath as London, New York…etc….surrrrrre. I wouldn’t hold my same breath, silly and/or plagued with delusions person.
I have to confess something to all of yer, maybe it’s the temporary lack of coffee in the tummy (I hope that’s it) but I had to return to the top of the article to recall where Grand Rapids even IS. Somewhere in America, right? It’s in Michigan, oh, yeah. And then I had to remember where Michigan is.
I sat here like an idjit pondering stump for a good 40 seconds. Jeezily, I feel as stupid as poor Sarah Palin looked trying to debate foreign affairs with Couric. I actually found that painful to watch and looked away in embarrassment for her.
But you know, instead of feeling retarded, I should tell myself, hey! If I can’t recall every ticky little minute just where Grand Rapids is? I CLEARLY have Vice-Presidential potential.
I think my post to above got eaten, but I mentioned in it that GR doesn’t even get mentioned in the same breath with Detroit or Cleveland, and now they’re gonna compare it to London and Detroit just ’cause you can buy a million dollar condo in an old church??
One of the nicer things about GR is that it’s only 3 hours or so from Chicago.
Ugh, Chicago is a pit. Here’s some nice things about Grand Rapids: Trees, lakes, Lake Michigan is 1/2 hour away, there are 3 or 4 nice ski areas about 45 minutes to the north, weather isn’t terribly bad summer or winter. Central-southern Michigan is rather pleasant. There just aren’t that many good jobs, that’s why I left.
Detroit and Chicago are not my idea of habitable.
Please don’t lump Detriot and Chicago together. They’re complete opposites in nearly every aspect of urban liveability.
Ugh, Chicago is a pit.
Where is it you live, Oh Wise And Sanctimonious One?
Colorado. Just because Chicago is nicer than Newark NJ or Gary IN, doesn’t make it an urban utopia.
Ha.
Just because Colorado has a Coors bottling plant, polar fleece clad yuppie “adventurers” and a couple of nice-lookin’ mountains doesn’t make it utopia, either.
Nope, none of those things make it utopia, but they all make it closer.
Just because Colorado has a Coors bottling plant
We also have a Budweiser brewery and bottling plant!
When I ask every mid-west refugee I meet why they moved here, the answer is always the same: the weather!
Shhh!!!
Don’t tell anyone!! Do you want half the country to move here?
One of the nicest things about GR is…………………
that it’s not Detroit?
Look at a map of the USA. The Lower Peninsula of Michigan is the part that looks like the back of your left hand when it’s palm-down on the table.
Michigan still bares the scar of the backhanding Mother Nature give it.
And that’s how people in Michigan show you where they’re from.
As a former resident of Grand Rapids (grew up there, now in Chicago ‘burbs) I can’t refrain from putting in a plug for West Michigan– if the MI economy ever improves and the religious Right’s grip on the area can be loosened, it’ll be a fine place to live. GR is a half hour’s drive from Lake Michigan with its sandy beaches, and is situated in nice rolling countryside with nearby orchards and farms in abundance. I’ve always thought Michigan would be a good place to live after the Apocalypse because of the fresh water, good farmland and natural resources there.
HOWEVER…I can pretty much guarantee that GR will only be mentioned in the same sentence as London, NY or Paris as the butt of a joke!
Elanor, I’m a big Michigan fan myself.
Beautiful state, nice people. In the longer term, I wouldn’t mind living there — if the economic factors manage to sort themselves out.
That’s a big “if”.
You can’t have all of your eggs in one economic basket like Michigan did for decades. It will be at least that long before the economy ever fixes itself there.
Okay, folks, this Michigan talk has me going.
So, with the authority vested in me by my keyboard, I declare that it is time for an HBB Michigan meetup. Here’s the deal…
I’m going to be attending Homecoming weekend at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. My weekend plans include attending this event:
1 p.m. Friday, October 3rd
Economic Forum
Lorch Hall Auditorium (Room 140)
Top economics professionals, including the former Chief Economist of Fannie Mae, will speak about the current state of the economy and what the future holds.
Any HBB-ers care to join me?
I’m a Michigan grad too. Wish I could head back to A2 next weekend, but I have to work. That Econ forum sounds interesting. It’s been at least ten years since I last visited A2, and I’m sure it has changed a lot in that time.
Geographically and topographically, Michigan is a beautiful state. Those that think otherwise have never been there.
Like others here have said, get rid of the religious fanatics on the west coast and diversify the economy, and Michigan would get very attractive very quickly. Great beaches, lots of rolling countryside, lots of open space.
And the U.P. is great, too.
Unfortunately, I will need to wait another decade before I can run for vice president. My daughter is only 6 now, so that’s the perfect age for her to be pregnant.
I hope you’re getting prepared…looking at Russia and hunting up some witches. Try to arrange to have some foreign leaders fly in the airspace over where you live. I mean, you want people to take you seriously, doncha?
On Letterman last night, they said Sarah Palin was going to do research on foreigh relations…….at the International House of Pancakes.
LOL
“Kevin Moore, the man who wants to develop the old Bethlehem Lutheran Church building into condos, says most importantly, his team realizes this is much more than a piece of real estate.”
“‘We’ve tried never to lose sight of the fact that this was actually a church where people were
married and baptizedcircumcised and eulogized,’ Moore said. ‘Once we’re done with this project, Grand Rapids will be mentioned in the same breath withLondon, New York, Boston, Toronto, ParisTerre Haute, Apple Valley, Utica, Steubenville, Flint. We like that idea a lot.’”Luv,
Jen
wow, it’s good to have you back.
Not so FAST Jen!
( I think Steubenville has a Dean Martin Museum ) or some such pop-culture non-sense that c-l-e-a-r-l-y put it a notch above GR!
Sorry, but I’ve got to stand up for the Jerry Ford museum at this point. (Hand over heart) And don’t forget this fish ladders in the Grand River!
The developer’s about to get Bobbitized on this one.
How low can we go?
Mexican Treasury Secretary claims US crisis might be worse than in 1929. Also claims Mexican economy is in better shape than US economy.
Sorry, its in Spanish.
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/primera/31693.html
Also, the German finance minister is blaimg the US for the global crisis and predicted that this is the end of the US as a financial superpower:
http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/finanzas/66759.html
Great links although a bit off topic. The only thing about it that should scare the s**t out of everyone is that the Mexican Treasury Secretary might not be far off…but who was responsible for bailing Mexico out..wait…that’s right…
I can see it now. Mexico builds a fence to keep the American illegal aliens out.
Great links although a bit off topic.
I know, but the bits bucket is already pretty big. I was afraid it would get lost there.
I thik that it is a bit of posturing. After all, the peso is still pegged to the dollar.
I just read a story about Brazil saying the same thing. Probably closer to the mark then Mexico which looks like a disaster in the making to me.
Mexico is a disaster in the making and we should be very concerned about that, rather than meddling in Middle Eastern affairs. If people think illegal immigration is bad now, just wait. And if there is a systemic breakdown, good luck dealing with gangs. We already had a situation in Bradenton, Florida where a real piece of crap gangbanger Valenzuela had to be sentenced in jail, not at the courthouse, for security reasons. They had to have police snipers in place in case there was any gang disruption.
It’s a dangerous situation for both judges and jurors, when gangs can openly interfere with the justice system.
“Mexico is a disaster in the making and we should be very concerned about that, rather than meddling in Middle Eastern affairs.”
The major Mexican oil fields are in depletion. That oil has helped sustain both the Mexican and U.S. economies. It’s demise is going to be bad for both countries, but in different ways.
I love these guys……..
They’ve spent the past 30 years exporting stuff to the US to prop up their own economies, subsidizing industries with government funds to compete against privately held US companies (Embraer, for starters), exported their uneducated welfare class (Mexico), underpriced their products with the help of government currency manipulation (Japan, China), among other tricks of the trade……..
I don’t blame them…….national governments are going to do what’s in their best interest. Our problem is that our national government refuses to do anything in the US citizen’s best interest. They are more inclined to leave us holding the sh#t-bag, to promote the interest of the multi-nationals, and in the preservation of our so-called “alliances”
Like I have said before, other countries jealously protect and nurture their high paying jobs. We export ours.
“Also claims Mexican economy is in better shape than US economy.”
Which of course explains all the gringos lined up outside the day labor centers in TJ.
My sister is probably down $50,000 or so (more than her annual income) on the two houses she owns, one of which I fervently attempted to dissuade her from purchasing.
U.S., local house prices continued their tumble in August
By Tim Logan
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
09/25/2008
If you’re trying to sell your house, it’s not getting any easier.
House sales and prices continue to slide across the nation, according to new numbers out Wednesday, the latest sign of the troubles wracking the housing market and, now, the entire U.S. financial system. And it’s a trend that, if it continues, could pose trouble for the $700 billion bailout plan now being debated in Washington.
The U.S. median price of an existing house sold in August was $203,100, according to the National Association of Realtors. That’s down 9.5 percent from the same period last year — the biggest such drop in records kept since 1999. Sales fell 11 percent, more than expected.
Just wondering…when your sister bought this house, was she crowing about what a smart deal it was, and how she’s going to make a fortune?
That mention of the fraudster reminded me of something:
What’s missing from any of these bailout bills is a provision that any recipient of any bailout–either bank or borrower–will not be eligible for anything if fraud was involved.
What percentage of troubled mortgages had some degree of fraud? The person either lied about occupying the house, or lied about income? 50%? Barney and Chris don’t seem to be bothered about handing over money to fraudsters. This is just a 2000’s version of the 1980’s welfare queens…
I am pretty sure a key point of the rush to bail is to transfer liability for the fallout before any serious assessment of fraud-related losses can be undertaken.
An excellent point, Reuven.
reuven,
That’s been a rather large concern for BB’s for some time now. With the graying of the lines it’s hard for any objective observer to determine?
I think the instances you point out are some of the more clear cut cases ( like Casey Serin ) but there are legions of the “cash out” crowd where not even a dime of that found it’s way back into the house. The banks figured that out too late and had to put the “LOC” in HELOC as a result.
I think one of the more brazen aspects was when re-fi firms were blatantly advertising that the loanowner could take the money out, use it for ANY purpose and STILL write it off on their taxes! Hello..? Flag anyone?
Given the large amounts of $$$ that can be recovered, it would be worth it for the IRS to hire teams of off-shore accountants and do some forensic accounting for EVERY FB (while the FBI is busy with the banks.)
In fact, there may be a business here, if the IRS will cooperate!
1. The IRS has a tattletale form IRS Form 3949-A
2. Get a group of people to find fraud, based solely on public records, statements to newspapers, etc
3. Collect $$$! There’s a law 26 U.S.C. § 7623. that stipulates anyone who turns someone in can collect a reward (if taxes are collected)
4. SUE the GOVERNMENT to collect taxes owed (to help with #3)
I have a comment about issue #4. California State is making NO EFFORT to collect income tax for “forgiven mortgage debt”. Even though the Feds passed a law excusing this tax (OUTRAGEOUS!) CA state has not. I had a long conversation with my local rep about this, and she said “it wouldn’t be fair to tax people on this phantom income.”
I called a few organizations that have launched “taxpayer lawsuits” in the past. (like “Judicial Watch”). Most of them are wacky, and more concerned with illegal immigration than anything else. Anyway, all the organizations I talked to said they wouldn’t be interested in suing the government to force them to collect tax…no matter how justified.
When CA lawmakers were talking about raising the marginal rate to 12% (!) while not taxing specu-vestors, I was bubbling mad.
I should point out that with all the estimates of $1Trillion of bad/forgiven mortgage debt out there, that means that there’s $350BILLION dollars (35%) of income tax the government has decided not to collect.
Congress passed and George W. Bush signed into law something that reduced the government’s income by $350Billion dollars…and now they want the rest of us to come up with twice that! I’m going to be sick.
I had a long conversation with my local rep about this, and she said “it wouldn’t be fair to tax people on this phantom income.”
Yeah, its much more fair to tax income earned with the sweat of one’s brow.
No wonder so many people jumped onto the easy money bandwagon.
any comparisons to RTC of the 90’s ?
I’m thinking there was much less fraud then
Not sure if this is OT (not sure what the topic is here), but saw a house in Delta, Colorado marked down to 58k from 178k 6 months ago. Delta is near Grand Junction, on the W. Slope, mostly a farming town. Just an example of things hitting this side of Colorado finally.
Friends don’t let friends smoke HELOC crack loans.