The Difference Between Want And Need In Florida
A report from Florida Today. “According to Zillow, 46.5 percent of all homes bought in Brevard since 2003 — or about 30,000 homes — are now worth less than is owed on them, raising worries that the record-high foreclosure rate here won’t end any time soon. Local foreclosure numbers back that up. Just over 7,000 foreclosure suits were filed through the end of August, according to the Clerk of the Court. That’s up from less than 5,200 all of last year and 1,900 in 2006.”
“‘I wish I wasn’t upside-down on my house. But I am,’ said economist Sean Snaith, who bought his Orlando-area home in 2006 when he joined the University of Central Florida faculty. ‘But I’m fine. I’m not going anywhere.’”
“Others, though, feel trapped. If they were to sell, they would have to pay their lender the difference between the selling price and the amount owed. ‘The only thing keeping us here in Florida is our house,’ said Maria Acevedo of Palm Bay.”
“Acevedo and her husband moved from New Jersey to Brevard because they thought the schools would be better for their two children. After renting for a year, they bought a house in 2004 for $114,000. They later refinanced and now owe $160,000. Acevedo said she doubted she could get $80,000 for the house right now. ‘There are so many houses on the market that have been foreclosed,’ she said.’”
“Acevedo said she and her husband took pay cuts when they moved here. That was fine at first, she said, since the cost of living here was low. But as the cost of living has increased…salaries haven’t kept pace. ‘The jobs just aren’t cutting it,’ she said.”
“‘The only thing keeping us here in Florida is our house,” said Acevedo. Now Acevedo wants to move back to New Jersey, but doesn’t see it happening soon because of her house. ‘If I could, I’d leave here in a heartbeat.’”
The Palm Beach Post. “Behind on their mortgage and forced to move to Miami-Dade County for work, Reggie and Noelvis Capiro this summer petitioned their lender, Wells Fargo Home Mortgage, and its servicing company to allow a short sale on their three-bedroom, three-bath house. They found a buyer who was willing to pay $400,000, about $40,000 less than they owed on the mortgage. ”
“The bank countered at $520,000, and the deal fell apart, according to the Capiros’ agent, Dave Derrenbacke. The Capiros lost the home to foreclosure in June, and the bank this month sold the house to a new buyer. The sale price this time: $360,000, according to MLS data. In the end, the bank got paid about $40,000 less than it would have had it gone through the short sale offered by the Capiros.”
“‘There’s definitely success stories out there,’ Derrenbacker said. ‘But there’s a big frustration level on everyone from sellers to buyers to the Realtors who are involved.’”
The News Press. “The relentless slide of home prices in Lee County has left almost half of recent buyers owing more on their mortgages than the home is worth — a sure-fire recipe for a new wave of foreclosures, experts say. Worst off are those who bought homes in 2006, just as the housing boom was ending: 78.5 percent of those now have home values less than the original loan amount, according to Zillow.”
“Among people who bought within the past five years, 46 percent are underwater on their mortgage in Lee, compared with 29 percent nationwide.”
“‘We are so upside down,’ said Michelle Nacua of Lehigh Acres. Nacua and her husband, Lani, bought their house in 2004 for $112,000. They refinanced twice and now owe $161,000, far more than the $114,000 the three-bedroom, two-bath house is assessed for by the county Property Appraiser’s Office. ‘It is our fault, but I hate it.’”
“Since the record high of $322,300 for the median Realtor-assisted sale of an existing single-family home in December 2005, the price has fallen 54 percent to $146,900 in August, according to the Florida Association of Realtors.”
“Even those who have been dutifully paying their mortgages are faced with the fear of foreclosures. ‘The third wave is coming from people who are underwater who are suffering disruptions to income,’ said Chris Lafakis, Florida analyst for Moody’s Economy.com.”
“Fort Myers attorney Kevin Jursinski agreed. ‘My clients are not subprime buyers; they’re people who’ve invested and can’t afford to pay,’ said Jursinski. For example, he said, ‘If I have a house I paid $400,000 for a few years ago with a $350,000 mortgage and I can buy a (bank-owned foreclosure) for $300,000 or $250,000, I’m going to do that,’ he said. ‘I’m gone.’”
“Jim Luccisano is the founder and president of Edison Financial Services, a financial services, mortgage, insurance and real estate firm in south Fort Myers. Q: The long-term prospects for Lee County’s real estate market?”
“A: Long term, I think they’re great. The boomers will come. Remember, ‘if you build it they will come’? Well, we’ve built it! Unfortunately, we built too much, too fast.”
“Once the uncertainty of the current markets settle, the retirees will put their homes up north on the market and we’ll get our share buying here. It will start in those cities that have not been hit as hard by the downturn, cities where the economies have not been devastated. Our snowbird friends are already looking around. A condo that was appraised at $325,000 in 2005 recently sold for $130,000.”
The Herald Tribune. “Like so many other high-flying companies in Southwest Florida, Century Bank’s success was linked to the unprecedented real estate boom. When that boom turned to bust, Century suffered the consequences. ‘I’ve been in banking 36 years and I’ve never seen a recession come on this fast and I’ve never seen property values depreciate as much as they have,’ said John O’Neill, Century’s CEO.”
“The biggest problem Century has had, O’Neill said, is with its portfolio of home equity or second loans. With real estate values down by 20 to 30 percent across the region, there was not enough collateral left in the properties for both first mortgage lenders and home equity lenders to be paid off.”
“O’Neill said his bank has also been burned by loans made to borrowers that were secured against building lots mainly in Lee County. Lots that were selling there for as much as $60,000 during the boom are selling for only $10,000 today, O’Neill said.”
The Tampa Tribune. “Bay area housing prices continue to fall, largely because a big chunk of the homes selling are sharply discounted properties in distress, a new report shows. Of homes that sold in Hillsborough, Pinellas and Pasco counties in September, 28 percent were either bank-owned or preforeclosure properties that sold for less than the troubled borrower owed on the mortgage. That’s up from a mere 0.2 percent during the same month in 2005…according to a real estate consulting firm and brokerage.”
“‘The distressed properties really weigh down the market,’ said Peter Murphy, a consultant with the company.”
“That’s because troubled real estate sells for far less than homes in which the seller isn’t under pressure. In the three-county area, nondistressed property averaged $126 per square foot. Compare that with $78 a square foot for bank-owned homes. In 2005, in the midst of the housing boom, nondistressed sales averaged $165 a square foot.”
The St Petersburg Times. “How terrible is the tug? According to (a) Tampa real estate consultant, banked-owned properties in September sold for only 62 percent of what nondistressed properties sold for. Distressed sales help explain the duration of the housing slump. More than 600 such properties were sold in the bay area in September alone. It helps explain why a typical house that fetched $215,000 a year ago now goes for about $170,000.”
“John McCain may be the Republican presidential candidate, but his proposal that the federal government buy and restructure $300 billion in troubled mortgages was a page ripped directly from Franklin Roosevelt’s New Deal playbook.”
“‘Is it expensive? Yes,’ McCain said. ‘But we all know, my friends, until we stabilize home values in America, we’re never going to start turning around and creating jobs and fixing our economy.’”
“Some worry such a plan creates an incentive for more people to default on their loans to get to refinance for less. That’s a chance worth taking to stem foreclosures, said Michael Slotkin, an economics professor at Florida Tech. ‘We need to save a generation of homebuyers. If you lose a couple of million buyers, you won’t have them back for years.’”
The West Orlando News. “Pending home sales have risen seven percent in some parts of Florida. The increase is being attributed to falling home prices. The increase in the housing market is bittersweet and things in Florida could get worse before they get better. Florida’s unemployment rate is at a 13 year high and exceeds the national average.”
“Governor Charlie Crist spent an hour meeting with Florida bankers. Afterward we asked if Florida is in a recession. ‘The economy’s tough. I don’t know what you technically call it. You know it’s a difficult challenging situation and there’s no question about it.’”
“Crist says the best thing Floridians can do in these tough times is to keep spending.”
“On the ninth floor of an office building on Cypress Street last week, Brad Robinson looked out across a sea of vacant desks and a deserted fish bowl and framed ads talking about company trust. Only he was left, the last man standing in Suite 950-A, once home to a thriving commercial real estate lending division of Washington Mutual. Now, it’s just another wasteland after the largest bank failure in American history.”
“‘There was a person there,’ Robinson said. ‘Person there. Three or four there. Person there. Person there.’”
“But in an industry full of panic, Robinson, a former senior loan consultant who made $200,000 last year, managed calm. True, he never expected WaMu to sink like Enron, and he lost company stock once worth as much as $75,000. To Robinson, WaMu’s future seemed as safe as a savings account. It had a long, storied history, having given out the first home loan ever in 1890 and more than $150-billion in home loans in 2006.”
“He only recently sold his Jetta after years of ribbing from colleagues and bosses over driving something that didn’t match his moneyed line of work. He saw no reason to get rid of it since it ran great and attracted little attention when he visited properties in rough neighborhoods. He parked it out of sight and arrived early if he had to meet clients.’
“But eventually he caved and bought a metallic gray BMW 335 coupe two years ago.”
“‘You take the good with the bad,’ he said, squeezing a pink piggy bank-shaped stress reliever between his palms sitting behind the office desk he was cleaning out.”
The Miami Herald. “Maria Osorio, 62, of Sunrise, never meant to run up her credit cards the way she did. But the companies sent them so freely. And they were so easy to use. First it was gifts and big items. Then it was gasoline, and that tasty baked chicken at the Golden Corral restaurant, then even groceries.”
“Suddenly the charges on her eight credit cards totaled $14,000. And she couldn’t always pay the monthly minimums. ‘The interest rates were killing me,’ she said. ‘If I sent in $100, only $20 of it was going to the principal. The pressure was building. I started getting the calls.”’
“She was far from alone. Since 2003, Americans have increased their credit card debt by an astounding $200 billion, to a record total of almost $1 trillion, the Federal Reserve says.”
“”People are overextended, losing jobs, losing homes, losing 401(k)s,’ says Meg Green, a North Miami certified financial planner. ‘There’s no place to go but credit cards, and they’re maxed out.’”
“Unfortunately, the economic crisis comes at a time when American consumers have been living beyond their means for decades. By 2007, personal consumption had reached $10 trillion a year. While housing values were booming, they financed purchases with home equity loans.”
”’From 2001 to 2006 homeowners cashed out $1.2 trillion in home equity, to cope with mounting debt and basic living expenses,’ says José Garcia, of the Demos financial consulting firm.”
“Some who approach April Lewis-Parks, director of Consolidated Credit Counseling Services’ Broward office, have so much debt and so little income that she can’t help them. ‘There’s a pool of people who have lost their jobs, and their income is cut and they just don’t have the money even for lower payments. I think a lot of them will just default,’ she says.”
“Green, the financial planner, is no fan of the way credit card companies treat customers. But she blames credit card users as well: ‘Why were people spending money they didn’t have in the first place? Where is it written that you can forget the difference between want and need?”’
The Naples News. “The Collier County Building Industry Association won’t let a tough economy rain on its parade. The Parade of Homes will go on. But not this fall. Originally planned for later this month, the scattered-site parade has been rescheduled for March in hopes of drawing more interest from local builders, who have been slow to sign up as they struggle through one of the worst housing slumps in decades.”
‘Only 13 entries were received — not enough to make a fall parade worthwhile. Typically, there are 30 or more homes displayed. New-home construction has slowed to a crawl in Collier County. In August, permits were down 23 percent for single-family homes, compared to a year ago. Multi-family permits were off 81 percent, according to a monthly report by Naples-based The Bidder’s Broker.”
“For many years, the association has done two parades annually: one at a single site and the other at multiple locations. In 2007, there wasn’t a multi-site parade. ‘That is when things really started to adjust,’ said Brenda Talbert, the building association’s executive VP, in a letter to the media and marketing partners.”
“Custom Construction Associates, a family-owned builder of multimillion-dollar homes on Marco Island, signed up for the parade this month too. But Lynn Lilly, an office manager, said she understood the decision to postpone it. ‘Last year was a little off,’ she said. ‘But it has been tremendously off this summer.’”
“Many builders are ‘absolutely pulling in and not expending any more resources than they have to,’ as they fight for survival, while others are going out of business or bankrupt, ‘losing everything they ever worked for,’ Talbert said.”
“Crist says the best thing Floridians can do in these tough times is to keep spending.”
It is reported that Jesus paid him $50k to have the “h” removed from his last name. The theory - he didn’t want to be associated with that . . .
To borrow a quote from last week’s comics, stupid is the new black. Crist is so far out of his league right now it isn’t funny. But considering where we’re going, even the most competent politician would be largely out of options beyond the level of prayer: our state’s entire socioeconomic structure depended on the good times rolling, and now they aren’t. At least California has a highly-educated work force to fall back on.
Well.. Here’s where you start. Cap the revenues (and reduce them) of all the taxing bodies in FL. Institute a fair tax system for all. Re-assess the homes based on real market values (which will further cut taxes). Then start to court people from other areas (the Boomers) to come buy and live in “tax friendly” FL.
Right now FL is an extremely high cost state to live in (for the new people). The tax burden is very high, insurance is very high, everything has HOAs (also high). The only thing that Crist has control over is the tax burden. Making this state tax attractive to Boomers is about the only card left up his sleeve.
After that move, then just sit back and watch the fireworks. Nothing can “fix” the rampant overbuilding and overpricing. But at least actions to attract (rather then force away) new buyers would help blunt the impact.
“But as the cost of living has increased…salaries haven’t kept pace. ‘The jobs just aren’t cutting it,’ she said.”
This lady moved to Florida in 2004..Florida at that time was well on its way to NOT being cheap…
My electricity bill in when I left back in 07 for the hot months ran at about $600 a month!…and we kept it warm in my house back in 04 it ran at a high of $450 a month!..mind you it wasn’t a McMansion either…the lady across the street from me with 3 less people in her household ran at $750 a month!
Spoke to a friend living down there now and said for his house at the hot months he was running at $850 a month..due to the 20% increase from FPL!
Florida stop being cheap after 01/02…
Now here in GA…I am at $300 for the hottest month and this house is 2x the size of what I had in SFL. All my utility bills her in GA don’t equal what I paid for just my FPL bill in SFL…sad!
Jobs have always been bad in SFL…that is why it is a con artist haven…
Now here in GA…I am at $300 for the hottest month and this house is 2x the size of what I had in SFL. All my utility bills her in GA don’t equal what I paid for just my FPL bill in SFL…sad!
LOL!! If I got a $300 electric bill I am pretty sure I would feint dead away !
Politicians say dumb things, but that’s gotta be one of the dumbest. Sheesh.
Insecureconomist goes to the misery loves company card…
“‘I wish I wasn’t upside-down on my house. But I am,’ said economist Sean Snaith, who bought his Orlando-area home in 2006 when he joined the University of Central Florida faculty. ‘But I’m fine. I’m not going anywhere.’”
It is a sad day when economists that constantly got it wrong and chose to intentionally ignore the data feel confident about their job security.
What is the difference between a scam artist and a pathological liar? The pathological liar is dumb enough to believe his own scam…
‘But I’m fine. I’m not going anywhere.’”
Don’t bet on it. If anyone with the University of Central Florida had half a brain, they would realize that as an economist, this guy is a total failure, as evidenced not only by ownership of an underwater house, but the dumb, totally off the mark statements he’s made since he arrived here in Florida. I think “souffle” was the height of his economic pronouncements. For this he gets paid on the taxpayer dime? He needs to be fired, and FAST! He is not an economomist, he’s an eCONomist.
Well just like Jim “The boomers will come” Luccisano? Dude, what are you talking about! ( Oh he acknowledges their ‘may’ have been a bit of over-building but.. )
When will these people get it through their thick skulls? It’s over. Start liking it. Any remaining boomers that haven’t already bought 3 or 4 homes in FL and elsewhere in the sun-belt will be looking for repo’d homes or very modest “park models”. You can forget “up selling” for a decade or three.
In same breath he is saying “they’ll put their homes on the market up north” while ignoring that their homes are worth a lot less than they paid, their 401ks are in the toilet and many of them are going to be forced to retire before their ready. Even at this point in the cycle we are still hearing the same nonsense.
Frank Hague,
Well said, and the comments are also oblivious to the fact that a great many FL ret. home purchases were done from MEW ( and not an actual sale ) creating an even bigger hole!
We see the whole defective bus. model play out here ( in reverse ) up here in OR. The reliance has been on “wealthy” CA’s coming up here and taking advantage of our relative “affordability”. Actually both are equally misguided.
“they’ll put their homes on the market up north”
And who exactly are going to buy THOSE houses???
Its a double whammy for Florida:
1) 401k
2) House in the Northeast
Both of which are going down in price.
I’ve said this before - it’s exactly like the movie Field of Dreams, from “if you build it they will come” in the beginning to “people will come, Ray, they’ll come to Iowa (Florida) for reasons they can’t even fathom” at the end. I wouldn’t be surprised if Florida officials are waiting for dead people to come out of cornfields, or perhaps orange groves, to buy the houses. Their solution to the fact that people cannot afford to buy houses, is to sell houses.
Blano is dead on here. The flee from the northeast requires a steady stream of unsophisticated, clueless buyers *with* financing to keep the one way train to FL alive. The problem is all the stupid, dumb and clueless have already bought in the northeast.
Why would a boomer go to Florida..they are not their parents.. the days of the boomers are over..
These boomers are looking for places to retire where the cost of living is CHEAP and with the stock market today, no one is going to be running down to Florida to retire. There is no benefit for a retire in that state. Especially a state that has been in a economic recession longer than 99% of the rest of the country.
Florida needs to wake up and start planning for a future that doesn’t require tourists, real estate or retirees.
Palmy… We could probably get just as good economic advice from the carnies who park their Tilt-a-Wheels and racing pig exhibits in rural Riverview…
He needs to be fired, and FAST! He is not an economomist, he’s an eCONomist.
Just think about all of those students he taught incorrectly in terms of the housing economics. Our new future leaders? What a scary thought and halloween is still a couple of weeks away.
News flash - our future leaders do not have econ degrees from UCF. Unless you’re talking about our new future leaders in Florida… In most parts of the country, that degree wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s printed on.
How does he totally ignore the compounding of interest and the time value of money when making the determination that “But I’m fine”. No you’re not moron, you’re in serious trouble, as is everyone who bought during this run-up. There is little/no way you will ever recover the amount that you overpaid for that home, especially when you take into account the interest payments on that overpayment! Is he the only economist on earth who doesn’t understand these concepts?
For most people, leveraging up and buying an asset that costs 100’s of K, and then seeing that asset fall by 50% (with no hope of ever attaining previous heights) is a financial disaster. They will never recover from it; which is why, in most/many cases, the best course of action is to walk away. Imagine buying 250K worth of CFC using all borrowed money. That’s what these idiots did. And now, they are being given a free put, which, in effect, allows them to walk away from the transaction. And yet, many are choosing (like Mr. Economic genius) not to exercise this put.
Please.
You are making far too much sense. This is no longer allowed.
I love Christmas with the joyous sound of jingle mail in the air and cupboards emptied bare.
“They will never recover from it; which is why, in most/many cases, the best course of action is to walk away.”
You are skipping to the next chapter here, which delves into the fascinating struggle between rational action at the household level and policy designed to thwart it.
To those that think that the stock market is done “correcting”, I give you only one word: California.
“‘I wish I wasn’t upside-down on my house. But I am,’ said economist Sean Snaith, who bought his Orlando-area home in 2006 when he joined the University of Central Florida faculty. ‘But I’m fine. I’m not going anywhere.’”
You are correct Sir!!
I wonder if he has tenure…
Must be. After all, tenure protects those that aren’t marketable and able to another university (no matter how you couch it as a “academic freedom” issue).
Once the uncertainty of the current markets settle, the retirees will put their homes up north on the market and we’ll get our share buying here. It will start in those cities that have not been hit as hard by the downturn, cities where the economies have not been devastated. Our snowbird friends are already looking around. A condo that was appraised at $325,000 in 2005 recently sold for $130,000.”
Many of your so called “snowbird friends” have perished in an unusal mid summer blizzard of stock market reality, housing and credit freezes. You’ll be very lucky to have a few Dodo birds wandering into Florida to nest in Death’s Waiting Room over the next few years
“It will start in those cities that have not been hit as hard by the downturn, cities where the economies have not been devastated.”
Why do I get the sinking feeling this is a veiled reference to the Chicago area? Guess what you FLA RE hustlers, keep it up with the “grass is greener” rescue fantasies, if that’s all you have left. Prices here are on the skids and the snowbirds are hurting too.
edgewaterjohn,
Right, that and prayer meetings should do the trick? Besides, as I mentioned many of those homes were done from MEW extractions ( not sales )
“Some worry such a plan creates an incentive for more people to default on their loans to get to refinance for less. That’s a chance worth taking to stem foreclosures, said Michael Slotkin, an economics professor at Florida Tech. ‘We need to save a generation of homebuyers. If you lose a couple of million buyers, you won’t have them back for years.’”
That’s right can’t let anyone fail, gotta ’save’ them. Where in the hell do all these commies come from.
The rest of America is there to be taxed to save Floridians. Let’s face it, we way over build, in hurricane and flood prone places. Florida is one disaster after another waiting to happen. It’s not communism. It’s being pro-business.
Just send us your money, stop that whining.
I was thinking about this last week. I can’t imagine why the 42 senators not from Florida, California, Arizona, or Nevada would vote for a bailout plan where 90% goes to only those four states. It would be a huge transfer of wealth to those states from the others.
‘We need to save a generation of homebuyers. If you lose a couple of million buyers, you won’t have them back for years.’
Yeah well, they should be made to name one confidence inspiring move that has been made by the PTB to make any level-headed person want to take a chance on overpriced RE.
Bargain basement prices are the only thing that will “save” buyers - and all this PTB mischief lately should mean even lower prices since folks ought to start pricing in the risks associated with all this recent Beltway/Wall St. nonsense and chicanery.
We need to save a generation of homebuyers.
And which generation would that be? Because everywhere I look, there are NO generations that will be able to buy a home of any kind.
The Greatest Generation has paid off their home and they are getting by on SS, meaning they are hosed.
Older Baby Boomers have to retire on the tatters of their 401K… they are hosed.
Younger Baby Boomers traded up and refinanced…they are hosed.
Generation X (30’s) bought high (townhomes and SFH) during the boom…they are hosed.
Generation Y (20’s) bought high (condos) during the boom…they are hosed.
Millenials are in college. If housing doesn’t hose them, the student loans will.
Cross-generational subprimes trying to get ahead got hosed.
The only generation with a prayer of being saved are teenagers. And they’ll be supporting their young boomer parents.
“Unfortunately, the economic crisis comes at a time when American consumers have been living beyond their means for decades. By 2007, personal consumption had reached $10 trillion a year. While housing values were booming, they financed purchases with home equity loans.”
”’From 2001 to 2006 homeowners cashed out $1.2 trillion in home equity, to cope with mounting debt and basic living expenses,’ says José Garcia, of the Demos financial consulting firm.”
–
And there you have it.
Who thinks this is anywhere near done?
Not only are we not anywhere near done..The bailout contemplated by our “Big Brother” will be the final death nell to free market capitalism. Once the FB’ers find out the little the saved in 401K’s is gone up in smoke they will start crying to socialize them also. Bye bye to any savers left in this country.
In his recent book, Gotcha Capitalism, Bob Sullivan points out that a good bit of what is saved in 401k accounts is eaten up by management fees. And who gets hit hardest? Those young people who started saving for retirement early.
Well I’ll have to at least peruse the book but I’d have to say out of hand that that is patently ridiculous.
Vangard’s fees on many funds are as low 50 bps. If anyone thinks they can start and run a mutual fund cheaper they’re certainly invited to try.
No offense but I think I’ve heard my last “excuse for not saving” I’m going to hear? Even small employer plans can be set up for $750. If you want to point the finger at annuities with 200+ bps. of mgmt. expense then fine, but Fidelity, Vangard and others are more than reasonable.
Sullivan didn’t come right out and say it, but he did mention Vanguard in a favorable light. There was a passage that had some very nice things to say about John Bogle, Vanguard’s founder.
And far be it from me to say bad things about Vanguard. That’s where the bulk of my retirement funds are. However, that is due to my choice. I’m self employed and can choose where my retirement funds go.
OTOH, employees of companies get to have their 401k administrators chosen for them. And, alas, those administrators can really drain off the employees’ retirement savings through sneaky fees. That’s the problem that Sullivan talks about in his book.
I wish I could recall exactly ‘where’ I’d read it but they stated “the number” was $4.4T from 2000 to 2008. That was just last week.
Nah, most of those people who cashed out their home equity from 2001 to 2006 (aka the Good Old Days) did so to buy stuff they didn’t need, like big screen TVs and ski boats.
The Stoopid, it burns us!
“After renting for a year, they bought a house in 2004 for $114,000. They later refinanced and now owe $160,000.”
So there’s where all the money went. People who sent an extra $40 to $300 K. They want my children to pay, over and above what those in older generations already did to them on the public side.
‘Is it expensive? Yes,’ McCain said. ‘But we all know, my friends,…
If McCain says “my friends” one more time in the next debate, I’m switching to M*A*S*H re-runs.
“‘Is it expensive? Yes,’ McCain said. ‘But we all know, my friends, until we stabilize home values in America, we’re never going to start turning around and creating jobs and fixing our economy.’”
House values will stabilize when the cost of owning is less than the cost of renting - as it’s supposed to be, you knob.
There used to be a big power that had a policy of keeping asset prices out of whack with yields. What happened to it?
“What happened to it?”
So far as I can tell, they are sticking to that plan, but it is not working.
If I were more of a drinker, I would have started a “My Friends” drinking game. I would have been pretty drunk by the end of that debate.
Being drunk would have probably made the Toledo game more tolerable.
I saw Michigan come apart against Illinois. A truly tragic game. It even seemed tragic to my father, who is an Illinois graduate (master’s and Ph.D.) in addition to being a Michigan graduate (B.S. degree).
We didn’t drink during the game, but trust me, Dad was quite insistent on having a brew afterward.
I didn’t think that game was tragic. As a matter of fact, I grinned through the entire thing.
As a Michigan fan you now know what us long-suffering Illini feel like. Saturday’s game against Minnesota? Now that was tragic.
If I were more of a drinker, I would have started a “My Friends” drinking game. I would have been pretty drunk by the end of that debate.’
You would have had 29 drinks, I think is what it was, according to Chris Matthews on MSNBC. Forget ‘pretty drunk’ AZ; youda been DEAD! Unless, of course, instead of drinking you instead threw up every time you heard him say ‘My friends’, which is just what I wanted to do.
John McCain is NOT your friend.
When anyone uses the phase “my friend”, I look for the knife being plunged in my back.
“phrase” not “phase”, typo.
For better or worse, McCain’s time on the telly is limited.
Whenever I hear “my friends” from a politican, I check for my billfold and RUN like Hell.
I hate the outright thefts through wasteful taxes and idiotic legislation but at least I can attempt to AVOID “my friend”, Mc Same, the pickpocket from the Keating 5 days
http://gmy.news.yahoo.com/v/10170522
Anyone want a free house? Only catch is you have to pay to move it from Kaysville UT to wherever (30 miles north of downtown SLC). Apologize if was already posted. Clip is funny.
And they were so easy to use. First it was gifts and big items. Then it was gasoline, and that tasty baked chicken at the Golden Corral restaurant, then even groceries.”
“Suddenly the charges on her eight credit cards totaled $14,000. And she couldn’t always pay the monthly minimums. ‘The interest rates were killing me,’ she said. ‘If I sent in $100, only $20 of it was going to the principal. The pressure was building. I started getting the calls.”’
That is ALOT of chicken!!!
That is ALOT of chicken!!!
But they were so easy to use!
Self responsibility is so uncool. The bank teased her with easy (but expensive) money. Don’t hold the adult child responsible.Boo-Hoo, the devil made her do it.No doubt, Maria reproduced.
“‘Is it expensive? Yes,’ McCain said. ‘But we all know, my friends, until we stabilize home values in America, we’re never going to start turning around and creating jobs and fixing our economy.’”
=======================================
To stabilize a leaky bubble, wouldn’t you need a fresh crop of people unworthy to loan money to, to come through and buy up all those houses that have done destabilized themselves?
Sharp left turn ahead for the Republicans. So what McCain is really saying is, we should spend a gazillion dollars to re-create the conditions that led to the current disaster. Pure genius, he couldn’t reason himself out of a paper bag.
This is why the repubs will lose next month. Why vote for “dem light” when you can vote for the real thing? McCain should have switched parties a few years ago.
Not to stand up for either candidate, but this is just WAY too big for any (1) individual to even take on. ….As, we have discussed at length over the years, this is without doubt THE biggest challenge we’ve ever faced as a nation.
Forget The Great Depression, this is bigger than WWII and the Cold War combined. I’m not going to get too bent out of shape about this especially with it’s surfacing so close to the election. Maybe he should be advocating we all start a Victory Garden or something?
he’s always turning left
reaches across the isle ……….
Doesn’t matter to me who wins come November, I just hope it’s a close race that goes all night long until the last ballots come in and ends weeks later with lawsuits and lots of hurt feelings.
Those are fun.
We are so upside down,’ said Michelle Nacua of Lehigh Acres. Nacua and her husband, Lani, bought their house in 2004 for $112,000. They refinanced twice and now owe $161,000, far more than the $114,000 the three-bedroom, two-bath house is assessed for by the county Property Appraiser’s Office. ‘It is our fault, but I hate it.’”
Michelle, what did you spend that $40K that your house magically produced out of the broker’s A$$. If you had left it alone, you would have been fine, at least as far as house values go? I have a small violin for you.
Better schools for the kids my a**, these two moved to Florida for one reason only, to become Jr. Donald Trumps. Why would they even give these whiners a forum to complain? Hey you gambled, you deserve what you get. Although I’d think much more highly of you if you would take 100 other people from New Jersey back with you.
We are so upside down.
————————————————————
just wondering….How does your head feel?
I posted in bits but this is the correct place.
The under reported story is HOAs where the foreclosure rate is 25%- mid 40s%.
This is a HUGE time bomb.
We tend to think of houses and forget that a lot of people live in condos.
A lot of people underwater are not paying their mortgages much less their HOA fees. As the economy gets worse, this will only get worse.
I foresee subsidized FPL payments from the State of FL/Federal government. Think elevators in high rises.
Some here a long time ago analyzed that some condos/co-ops could have a negative net worth. This is true.
HOA fees in South FL are 43-50 cents a square foot. Taxes are 22 mils in may areas.
Someone that “steals” a condo at 200K that previously sold at 500K has the following scenario:
HOA $700 Taxes $700/month = $1400
Rents for identical unit $1500-1700
Special assessments for shortages? How many $1000s?
Mid year predictions are on target.
There are many condos (and some houses) in my area that have 0 value. The rent does not cover taxes+insurance+HOA. How in the heck is that going to play out? That home could be free, and you would STILL be better off renting it.
It may have been me that did the analysis, and if people are interested, I have real numbers for a community near me that has negative net worth. But, point stands, how on earth does that type of scenerio play out. Rents aren’t going up, if anything, they will be going down for the next 5-10 years in this area (because of the overbuilding). Taxes are going to go up. HOA fees are going to go up. So, exactly where does one put this condo on their balance sheet? Asset? Or liability (even with no MTG)?
Michael,
Nicely done. Even during the height of the Boom we laughed at rents that didn’t even cover the HOA’s and taxes! LOL!
Sure, you bet, I’d be only too happy to rent from you! ( Of course you’ll be on your own for that mortgage thing but..? )
My wife’s cousin in LV bought several homes there and Austin, TX as well and even though they own successful adult care homes all the positive cash flow from them goes to feeding their alligators so in effect, they’re insolvent. There’s no amount of positive cash flow that can stop their bleeding.
Mike, Mike, Mike. You’ve totally discounted the value of being able to pick out not only the color, but ALSO the thickness of your granite countertops if you buy vs. rent.
We have some nice, waterfront condos built where I live a couple of years ago. They were going for about 650K, now going for 450K. 50% sold. Nobody buying.
Condo fees are $600/mo. Place has a pool, tennis courts & boat docks. There are about 100 condos. What the hell do they need $60K a month for? I told them I’d happily do 100% of the maintenance for $50K/mo!
“They found a buyer who was willing to pay $400,000, about $40,000 less than they owed on the mortgage. ”
“The bank countered at $520,000, and the deal fell apart, according to the Capiros’”
Ugh.. Something doesn’t make sense here. Why would the bank counter at OVER the amount of the MTG? That makes no sense at all, they are only going to get the MTG amount anyway, right? Or is this perhaps the dumbest bank ever, and one that needs to be shorted out of existence ASAP?
I think it is a typo : 420k makes more sense.
Maybe there was a second, or a HELOC, that needed covering too. It would be typical for a reporter to leave those tid-bits out.
I think you need to ask who it was that bought the place for $400k.
A lot of details are missing. It fails mention how much the family paid for the property, when they purchased it, or what it was appraised at.
Sounds like an inside job to me.
Snaith trapped
see, there is a GOD
Snaith Pliskin, Escape from Florida
Not so fast. He’s trapped in my state. And quoted by my newspapers all day long. So, maybe there is a GOD for you. But for me, it’s just more evidence that I am put on this earth to suffer.
Crist almighty, were you lucky to snag his services away from the Golden State…
Lucky. Yeah, that’s the word I was thinking of.
What’s luck got to do with it?
What’s luck got to do with it?
OK, I’m finished channeling Tina Turner now.
My very old and trusting in-laws just dodged a bullet big time here in Palm Beach.
They sold in NY at the high of the bubble and made a killing. Moved to Florida and promptly lost most of their ‘profit’ by paying the most for a condo in the entire building they live in ever. Theirs was the last condo sold at the high of bubble, for 350k. Now only worth 150 (and dropping).
Top it off, they bought too small. Needed to up-size almost immediately. So they very recently purchased a larger second condo in the same building, this time for 200k. (They had previously offered 350 for this one too, but took my advice to wait a while).
Now they wanted to rent the smaller one, without a lease. Because they “know the girl from the building, she’s nice, has 3 degrees etc”
We beat them over the head all weekend to get a lease, get a lease , get a lease. Guess what! They did! When they pulled it out to go over it, the “nice girl” turned nasty and admitted she was going to have her smoker family move in with her, because none of them could afford the rent alone- and she was painting the walls because that color did not match her sheets. (All the things we warned them about!) The in-laws said the place was no longer available to her and she flipped out. Oh well, she can flip all she want, she does not get the keys!
The kicker is that the girl had claimed she had never had a lease. But in fact she had had a lease up until she went month to month on her last place. if the FIL had not gone down to the building mgmt and done a cursory check, they would have essentially given the place over to the girl.
Lesson learned, the in-aws are now getting a mgmt company to find an older lady to rent the place and be done with it. 1 big mistake, almost compounded by giving it away to a renter scared them enough to listen to reason. Score one for the good guys.
Dodged a bullet, yes. But continue to breathe in the anthrax infested air nonetheless. Why buy another condo? Unless that condo is on the beach in Palm Beach, 200K is still a lot of money! They can probably buy it 2 years from now for FAR less then they just paid. And now they have 2 rapidly depreciating condos in FL?
Walk away from the first condo, rent another condo, and wait for this to settle down. The renter would have been mistake number 3, but the first 2 mistakes are really the one that closed the financial coffin.
That is what you and I would have done, but these are very stubborn folks that have never rented themselves, it is beneath them. They paid cash for the first one and it can’t sell now. They are stuck with that albatross for a long time. When they moved in, only 2 condos were for sale in the building, now there are almost 50 for sale and many others for rent. They are well off enough financially weather 2 condos, but it still stinks that they lost almost everything they ‘made’ from the NY home they had for 40+ years.
Hope they find a renter then. Something tells me that if ‘the girl’ couldn’t afford, then neither can that ‘older single lady”.
rusty,
And we’re seeing that “transformation” in a thousand ways… every day! I recently “made weight” and got down to my target weight. My wife and I did a whirlwind tour of all our favorite restaraunts and I must say it was revealing!
NO ONE was tipping. Very typical of Oregonians ( who complain endlessly about how hard it is to get by, even in the best of times ) to absolutely STIFF the help. I’m used to it. I’m also very used to young kids almost in tears giving us heart-felt thanks for a lousy 15-20% tip.
We stopped at a fast food place and this… very hefty older gal was tearing the young mgr. a new one because her order was (1) minute late!? She was -demanding- a FULL refund and oh… she was keeping the food too! My wife sneered at her the whole time and I gave her the “stink eye” as she hobbled back to her SUV. Guys, start getting used to it. The scumbags are back and this time they’re in full force! We hoped she choked on it. Scumbag.
People don’t realize we are all in this together. I was reading something this weekend how recessions cause huge spikes in crime. For example NY almost collapsed in the 70s and look how bad society became there for a long while!
I’ve made nice with all my neighbors. For example my wife travels and cooks huge portions to make sure we don’t starve while she’s gone. We end up trading the surplus with a great cook down the street. We swap babysitting with the folks across the street, and am always available for heavy lifting. I figure I can count on a few of them in a pinch, if society broke down and we had to hunker a bit.
Down here in southern Oregon, we go out two
or three times a week and a group of us has
Sunday brunch at the same place every week.
We tip well, get incredible service, get the
best tables, and the food is always perfect.
But then we tip well and they know it!
Rancher,
And I hope to be in your good company shortly! I’m transferring to the unit in K-Falls and am really looking forward to it! Believe it or not the wife and I have been looking at property in that area and always enjoy our trips down there.
I guess it’s not just OR’s? I think it has more to do with being in the I-5 Corridor. We’ve been taking more trips off the beaten path and the minute you get out of commutable distance to I-5 ( or whichever ) people get almost instantly more polite and civil. That includes tipping. But that’s what grinds me about so many people? Tipping is part of dining out, if you KNOW that your evening is going to end w/ someone getting STIFFED ( what kind of person are you that you could actually enjoy your “night out”? ) IMHO
K-falls? A lot colder than Grants Pass, and
a lot hotter in the summer. Where are you moving from?
“Acevedo said she and her husband took pay cuts when they moved here. That was fine at first, she said, since the cost of living here was low. But as the cost of living has increased…salaries haven’t kept pace. ‘The jobs just aren’t cutting it,’ she said.”
____________________________________
Welcome to Florida, Ms. Acevedo. See the sun? That’s your pay.
The one thing I would happily pay taxes for would be to buy out New Jerseyites and send them home.
“Loook honey, I’m cuttin’ down those f*in’ oak trees and plantin’ royal palms like Ize saw on Miami Vice! Ya like my white shoes and ducktail? Hey, I’m gonna paint the house pastel orange. Ain’t it f*in’ beautiful! Loook at those stupid sea cows gettin’ all cut up under my propeller, ain’t that f*in’ hilarious! Howz come I’m only makin’ $5 an hour? I knowze how to drive a limo!”
What’s up with them?
Tell us how you feel there, Jon, because I’m unable to decide if you like New Jerseyites or not.
Hello from Princeton Junction, NJ.
“Acevedo and her husband moved from New Jersey to Brevard because they thought the schools would be better for their two children.”
And here’s the dumbest statement of all. I want what this b*tch is smoking. Schools in Florida better than schools in Jersey?
Please–she thought she could get a cheap house that would just keep going up and up and up in value. Instead, they just have a cheap house.
Wrong.
They have a house that is getting cheaper while their debt stays the same.
Correction: a cheap house + a pile of debt + low wages. And sunshine. And the beach.
Maybe they lived in Camden, NJ?
“And here’s the dumbest statement of all. I want what this b*tch is smoking. Schools in Florida better than schools in Jersey?”
That was my thought too. Maybe the NJ natives can confirm public schools there. They have a reputation of being top notch.
Good thing the humidity and mosquitoes come free.
The cost of living increased because you refinanced your house you fu%king retard. Please take your dumb a$$ back to Joisey.
Good riddance.
She probably would have been fine if she didn’t refinance.
Where did all of that equity that she pulled out go???
Ahhhhhhhh…the Florida thread, each more horrifying than the one before………is the bottom near???……no.
Keeping track of Lee County, ( Fort Myers ). The height of the
boom….. Oct. - Dec. 2005, the average price of homes sold
was $322,000……… now Sept. 2008 was $126,000.
60% off from peak………now that’s horrifying.
With high unemployment, overbuilding,hurricanes
higher crime and so many underwater on their mortgages
this area still has a long way to go.
The FL threads are one of the best things that can happen to me early in the day. I’m always upset when there is no FL thread; it just seems to bring out the best in the posters. And, of course, the best in the news stories as well; there’s no limit to the stupidity of people quoted in the papers down here, that’s for sure!
Let’s do a character assassination of Florida, stating it in just 3 words.
We’ll do the same to California later on, dude.
Give it your best shot, and may the best 3 words win…
Lied,fried & died.
Upside-Down Cake (let them eat…)
Nearsighted Voters Bush
“Unique” economic model.
Sun, Fun, and once in a lifetime Bank Run!
Subprime crime time
Note to Mike Fink;
As a former WPB resident, now residing in NC, I still read the Palm Beach Post on line, and saw that Riviera Bch is getting a NEW Publix near the Marina Grande….
Where is the Marina Grande, that you had referenced several times….We moved out in January 2006, and I was thinking that it might be next to the Blue Heron Bridge, where the old Crab Shack used to be….Is that correct????
Yup, that’s the one. A “luxury” condo in the middle of the ghetto. And I do mean ghetto (for those that have never been here); like guys on their bikes selling crack at the gates of your condo. That’s the kind of place that really has no intrinsic value; the location destroys any value that one may get from living in that building.
The Marina Grande is one of my favorites, but I think the best is “The Landmark at the Gardens”. This is another condo building, in the mall parking lot (read that again, and no, I’m not kidding) with multi-million dollar price tags. No waterfront. No beachfront. Parking-lot-front.
That’s my personal favorite condo building that was put up during the boom; it’s probably got to drop about 75-85% from peak to find people that really want to live there.
Luxury condos in a mall parking lot?? What were they thinking!
My wife used to live in a condo, just immediately north of the Marina Grande, on the intracoastal, but sold it back in 1988, and moved to Eastpoint CC out on Hood rd..
It was ‘bad’ then, so, I can just imagine what it might be like now….We got some friends visiting from WPB right now, and they didn’t know where Marina Grande was..
[I don't think they go in those neighborhoods]…They live up on Prosperity Farms Rd. To a certain extent, I do miss the vibrancy of WPB, because up here in WNC, it’s very quite by standards, and the only noises you hear, are some robbins cherping at you…BUT, the saving grace, “is”, there aren’t many condos up here, and NO track home builders….And my taxes on a $300K house are $1600/yr, with $500 home owners insurance… $2 grand got you covered….I spent 26 years down there, and the way things currently are, I may NEVER want to go back…
TO MANY PEOPLE….Back then, there were only 1/2 million in PBC, and currently it’s heading for 1.5
Thanks, BUT, NO THANKS….
I used to live in Lake Worth but my job took me all over the county. The Marina Grande is the one on the west end of the Blue Heron Bridge. Across the street is about half a block of “gentrified” houses, then you’re in the hood.
By the way, look at the new developments off Congress north of Blue Heron. They were built (and sold) at the height of the boom and I’ll bet 90% of the houses are upsdie down to the mortgage. And they’re in Riviera Beach, right next to the “affordable” apartment complex.
And most of Lake Park is getting kind of crummy too. My former boss bought a condo on the intracoastal side of Rte 1 off Northlake Blvd. I asked her why she would want to live in a place where you had to sleep with a shotgun at your side. She said “but we get a free dockspace included for our boat”. At least the boat (and the condo) were paid off.
When we were leaving PBC back in 2006, I remember that KB Homes was building all those houses on Congress, north of Blue Heron, and they were priced in the $250-300K category…..I could NOT believe they would be able to sell them to “”WHOM”"….
I would guess it’s pretty close to SOWETO, in So Africa, by now…That’s why I really never want to go back…enough is enough
Relocated to St. Louis Missouri from Sarasota Fl….was wondering if that ridiculous high end mall was still going forward at University and I75 and what of the stupid mega project where the old quay was located?
When I last drove by there in mid-August, the mall looked like construction was proceeding apace. But that was light-years ago given the speed with which things are happening. I don’t think any new malls in West Central Florida are going to succeed unless success comes at the expense of existing malls, and even then it’s quite possible that both old and new malls will be in serious trouble. The three new malls being built in Pasco County fall into that boat; it was sad last week reading about the several thousand people lining up for job interviews at one of them. The kind of housing prices that can be justified by highly indebted people working $8 per hour jobs without benefits is a multiple below what we’re seeing even today.
Should have posted this in bits and buckets….
So, the government is about to selectively buy stock from certain banks in an attempt recapitalize them - leaving other banks to fend for themselves.
And they’re going to be lifting the ban on short sales soon (it was a 2 week moratorium, correct?)
Isn’t that kind of a perfect sh*t storm?
Is today’s rally just a dead cat bounce?
Yeah, bear market sucker rally.
Plus, the credit markets are closed for Columbus Day.
The short sale ban was lifted this past Thursday.
“‘My clients are not subprime buyers; they’re people who’ve invested and can’t afford to pay,’ said Jursinski. For example, he said, ‘If I have a house I paid $400,000 for a few years ago with a $350,000 mortgage and I can buy a (bank-owned foreclosure) for $300,000 or $250,000, I’m going to do that,’ he said. ‘I’m gone.’”
But he’s not describing people who can’t afford to pay; he’s describing people who overpaid, and now want to back out of the bad deal they made.
Isn’t that like the definition of “subprime”?
BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
I don’t think what this attorney says is possible now. Sending in the keys for the house you have will kill their credit, they’d probably have a rating in the 500’s. How would they get the money to buy another house, foreclosure or not?
“The Parade of Homes will go on. But not this fall.”
Mayor Carmine De Pasto: Look, these parades you throw are very expensive. You using my police, my sanitation people, and my Oldsmobiles free of charge. So, if you mention extortion again, I’ll have your legs broken.
You F**cked up, you trusted us…….
“‘I wish I wasn’t upside-down on my house. But I am,’ said economist Sean Snaith, who bought his Orlando-area home in 2006 when he joined the University of Central Florida faculty. ‘But I’m fine. I’m not going anywhere.’”
Sounds like he has worked his way from the denial stage through to the bargaining stage of the housing bubble stages of grief.
“A: Long term, I think they’re great. The boomers will come. Remember, ‘if you build it they will come’? Well, we’ve built it! Unfortunately, we built too much, too fast.”
Q: Considering the high taxes and humidity, why wouldn’t Arizona be the better place to get a deal ?
Oddly, or perhaps not so oddly, large numbers of people, including Boomers, are trying to sell their homes here in Florida and move north. That’s the new long-term trend. Now that his credibility is shot, Mr. Luccisano’s business survival depends on his recognizing it.
nobama says no foreclosures for 90 days
so no one would buy anything for 91 days ?
the sheeple will love it
“‘I wish I wasn’t upside-down on my house. But I am,’ said economist Sean Snaith, who bought his Orlando-area home in 2006 when he joined the University of Central Florida faculty.
MNow we know why Snaith was a cheerleader for the housing market as he too made the mistake of buying at the peak.
Even if you manufacture Kool-Aid™ for the masses, you should not swallow it yourself.
LOSER.
There is a Sean Snaith, that bought in Aug. of 2006 for $570,000
in Orlando , Orange County, now taxable value $350,000.
Beauty!!!!
Put that in your Econ 101 lesson….HAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHA
Put that in your Econ 101 lesson….HAHAHAHHAHAHHAAHHA
And add in the $220,000 haircut on top of the lesson!
Some guest columnist in the Miami Herald recently decried the “blame the individual” thing in this financial mess. But the following from the blog post makes me think that it’s irresponsible to just blame fat cat corps seeking bigger paychecks and profits, because the little folks were busy being as greedy and stupid:
“Acevedo and her husband moved from New Jersey to Brevard because they thought the schools would be better for their two children. After renting for a year, they bought a house in 2004 for $114,000. They later refinanced and now owe $160,000. Acevedo said she doubted she could get $80,000 for the house right now.
“‘We are so upside down,’ said Michelle Nacua of Lehigh Acres. Nacua and her husband, Lani, bought their house in 2004 for $112,000. They refinanced twice and now owe $161,000, far more than the $114,000 the three-bedroom, two-bath house is assessed for by the county Property Appraiser’s Office. ‘It is our fault, but I hate it.’”
“Maria Osorio, 62, of Sunrise, never meant to run up her credit cards the way she did. But the companies sent them so freely. And they were so easy to use. First it was gifts and big items. Then it was gasoline, and that tasty baked chicken at the Golden Corral restaurant, then even groceries.”
“Suddenly the charges on her eight credit cards totaled $14,000. And she couldn’t always pay the monthly minimums. ‘The interest rates were killing me,’ she said. ‘If I sent in $100, only $20 of it was going to the principal. The pressure was building. I started getting the calls.”’
“Unfortunately, the economic crisis comes at a time when American consumers have been living beyond their means for decades. By 2007, personal consumption had reached $10 trillion a year. While housing values were booming, they financed purchases with home equity loans.”
”’From 2001 to 2006 homeowners cashed out $1.2 trillion in home equity, to cope with mounting debt and basic living expenses,’ says José Garcia, of the Demos financial consulting firm.”~~~
Here we were, saving, and we’re gonna get dinged with higher taxes cause a lot of selfish assholes decided their equity was Big Party Whoopee Time money.
Gosh, I’m pissed.
And I’m pissed at the builders who overbuilt in MY Florida, and messed it the hell up.
Mir
When did “refinance” become a synonym for borrowing more money? I thought it was a synonym for getting a new loan with more favorable terms.
“Crist says the best thing Floridians can do in these tough times is to keep spending.”
Sorry Charlie, the consumer has gone fishing and is no position to keep spending! Better luck next fall Charlie!
Reminds me of W just after 9/11 saying the patriotic thing to do was ‘go shopping.’ What a dope. I’ll be glad to see our worst president in history gone. History will not be kind to that moron.
Oh, and our brilliant local commissioners have okayed two new projects near my home–one a retail center next to a large park–residents have protested this for a couple years due to its height overshadowing the nature preserve and bound to cause congestion– the other a mixed used center near “town center”, meaning near where a bunch of gang bangers and drug dealers live, i suppose, from what I can see. Both developments are near retail spaces that are going vacant.
Commission says we NEED GROWTH. Building permit fees and impact fees are making them salivate.
Really? That’s what we need? Growth? Huh.
Mir
“I wish I wasn’t upside-down on my house. But I am,” said economist Sean Snaith.
Let’s see.. Shit Sandwich?
“‘You take the good with the bad,’ he said, squeezing a pink piggy bank-shaped stress reliever between his palms sitting behind the office desk he was cleaning out.”
You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and there you have, The Facts of Life…The Facts of Life…