Speculators Are Deadly
The Gazette reports from Colorado. “Unlike just a year or two ago, if area consumers want to borrow money, they’d better have a steady income, a good credit score and some kind of down payment or equity. That’s the picture that emerged this week in interviews with a dozen bankers, businessmen and real estate agents. Financial experts said caution, among lenders and borrowers, isn’t a bad thing after a period in which common sense seemed to take a vacation. ‘We are such an instant-gratification society,’ said Don Childears, president of the Colorado Bankers Association. ‘That’s what led to this problem. We all wanted that neat home immediately, and the new car and furniture to go with it. We got addicted to credit. We lived that way. We’re basically paying a price for that.’”
“Soon-to-be homeowner Deb Hughes has decided she’s going to invest in what she still believes is a bright future, and she’s glad there are lenders willing to help her. ‘I’m 48. I’ve seen this happen before,’ Hughes said. ‘I lost a half million dollars in the stock market in 2000. The economy is in a slump right now, but we’re going to come back. The American people are powerful.’”
“Mortgage foreclosures filed in El Paso County this year passed last year’s record total Friday and likely will finish the year at least 25 percent higher if filings continue at the current rate, Public Trustee Thomas Mowle said Tuesday.”
“‘I believe a lot of the bad loans have been worked out of the system. What you are seeing now is people with reasonable loans are ending up in foreclosure because their economic situation has changed or they have to move for some reason and cannot sell their home on a timely basis,’ Mowle said.”
From 9 News in Colorado. “At Brothers Redevelopment Inc., the calls to its foreclosure helpline haven’t fallen off one bit. ‘From 2006 to 2007 we had this huge jump, 40 percent. The number jumped from about 28,000 filings in 2006 to 39,000 filings in ’07. I’m estimating we’ll probably see about 45,000 to 50,000 filings in 2008,’ said Ryan McMaken with the Division of Housing.”
The East Valley Tribune from Arizona. “Median home prices continued to slide in September while existing home sales continued a steady climb, according to the latest report on housing resales from Arizona State University. The median price of an existing house was $180,000 last month, about 7 percent lower than $193,550 the month before.”
“Patti Haugland, an agent with Sonoran Fine Properties, said the lower prices are a reflection that sanity is returning to the market after values were overinflated during the housing bubble. ‘People overpaid,’ she said. ‘People were getting crazy bidding against investors trying to snatch up these properties.’”
The Arizona Republic. “Foreclosures continue to pull down home prices. The median existing home was $254,000 a year earlier. ‘Potential buyers still confront a weak economy, possible job loss and tighter underwriting guidelines,’ said Jay Butler, director of realty studies. ‘The desire and ability to purchase a home is being severely tested.’”
“Estrella was a barely built master-planned community seized by the feds after developer Charles Keating went bust in the multibillion-dollar savings and loan scandal of the late ’80s. A new developer took over from the feds, acquiring the property for about 10 cents on the dollar.”
“‘We looked and we stood here and we said OK, how about this view for the rest of our life?’ said Charles Allen, recalling his visit with wife Josie to the lakeside home they bought in 1992. Josie Allen and Charles retired from their jobs in California and moved to Estrella. And then they hung on through a slow housing market in the mid-’90’s.”
“Prices of lakeside homes that sold for $134,000 in the early ’90s finally boomed. And then came the current bust. ‘This house was appraised at $620,000,’ Charles Allen said. ‘Now we’re lucky if we get 400.’”
The Daily Herald from Utah. “An auction that netted $7.5 million in bids on 56 distressed Utah properties fell through last week after the owners — three banks and two private lenders — decided they may get a better deal by holding out for the government’s bailout plan. ‘There were buyers, but we couldn’t sell the homes because free enterprise has gone out of the market,’ said Eric Nelson, founder of Las Vegas-based Eric Nelson Auctioneering.”
“All those bids were rejected late last week, a move Eric Nelson Auctioneering’s founder blames on ‘indecision’ among lenders caused by the government’s proposed bailout plan. ‘This has never happened before. In the 25 years we’ve conducted lender-owned auctions, we’ve consistently closed over 95 percent of all high bids,’ Nelson said.”
“‘They’re thinking, ‘Why sell the properties for 50 cents on the dollar when they may get 75 cents or 80 cents through the bailout? If buyers aren’t allowed to buy, that delays the process even more,’ Nelson said. ‘That’s not a good thing to have when you’re trying to get the economy back on track. It’s disheartening for buyers and sellers and it has a real economic impact with thousands and thousands of homes coming on the market.’”
“Kelly Matthews, senior economist with Wells Fargo, said he doesn’t believe there’s any ‘clear-cut evidence or serious discussions over whether the government will buy those foreclosed properties.’ ‘The initial proposal is that the government may buy mortgage-backed securities which could possibly include properties that were already foreclosed on,’ Matthews said. ‘But I don’t believe there’s any clear-cut evidence or defined program that the [U.S.] Treasury is going to buy those foreclosed homes.’”
“Steve Cuillard in Orem, a broker specializing in foreclosure sales, said he hasn’t received any indications that the lenders he works with are holding off on sales on expectations of a government bailout.”
“If anything, he said foreclosure sales are slow because it’s increasingly harder for people to get financing for a variety of reasons. ‘More lenders are now requiring 10 percent to 20 percent down payment, instead of 3 to 5 percent. I’ve had two potential buyers bail out on me this week because one of them had to take a pay cut, and another one was told his employer was cutting back,’ he said.”
The Salt Lake Tribune from Utah. “Utah’s job-creation engine has all but shut down, prompting worries about how long the state’s comparatively strong economy can stave off significant employment losses. One person who is watching his money these days is Russ Johnson, who owns a homebuilding company in Farmington and also manages a mortgage lending office in Bountiful. Business at both enterprises is down dramatically.”
“He thinks a growing problem is that people who have the means and financing to buy are putting off purchases because they are waiting for the market to hit bottom. He recently had a woman offer him $500,000 for a house that cost him more than $1 million to build. He passed.”
“‘I don’t know what they are waiting for,’ he said. ‘I guess they are waiting for a million-dollar home to be a $1 before they buy.’”
The Deseret News from Utah. “Foreclosures have skyrocketed in Utah in recent months. Jim Wood, director of the University of Utah’s Bureau of Business and Economic Research, said Utah’s foreclosure rate of about 1.5 percent is not on the scale of other troubled states across the nation, but the Utah rate could hit 3 percent over the next year. He characterized the current financial markets and housing situation as ‘chaos’ of historic proportions.”
“‘We’ve never seen anything like this,’ he said. ‘This is really unprecedented.’”
“‘I’ve never seen this many short sales, and I’ve been doing them for 11 years,’ said Mindy Mason, a Realtor with Prudential Utah Real Estate. Mason said in years past, banks would often accept the loss on a property and forgive the deficiency from the seller, but times have changed. ‘A lot of banks are requiring that the deficiency be paid over time or at least a portion of it be paid,’ she said. ‘They used to forgive, but there’s just so much of it.’”
“Mason said a ‘huge amount’ of investor speculation, subprime lending and home construction contributed to the dramatic inflation of home prices and put many buyers in homes they eventually were unable to afford when the market turned downward. She said those factors put a significant number of property owners in financial peril, so much so that today, about half her business involves short sales.”
“Eric, who asked that his last name not be disclosed, found himself unable to afford his home and ended up turning to a short sale. He and his wife purchased a new home in Orem in 2005 and lived there for three years before separating. ‘I couldn’t afford the payments on my own,’ he said.”
“The couple bought the house for $480,000, and it jumped in value just two years later. He refinanced the home after it was appraised for $619,000 to finish the basement.”
“He said he chose the short-sale option rather than allowing the house to go into foreclosure because the long-term impact on his credit would have been much worse with a foreclosure. He eventually sold the house for the original purchase price in February of this year, although the mortgage was for the higher, refinanced amount. ‘The note on it was $619,000, and then it sold for $480,000,’ he said.”
The Reno Gazette Journal from Nevada. “The solid majority of Nevadans in a Reno Gazette-Journal poll…are worried about how the economic downturn affects them. California retiree Gary Ferguson, walking his 18-month-old granddaughter with his wife, Joanna, during a Reno visit, sought perspective. ‘We’ve been here before with periods of downturn,’ he said. ‘What can you do? There’s a greed factor in all this. It was a matter of time. It was bound to happen, and God willing, everything will bottom out and we’ll start all over again.’”
“Added his wife: ‘If our Social Security checks don’t come, we’ll be in trouble.’”
Las Vegas Now from Nevada. “Home values in Nevada have plunged, while foreclosures have skyrocketed. But in a sign of what could be a turnaround for the market, homes in foreclosure are being sold at record levels. Jessica Scheitler is still getting settled into her new home. Scheitler was renting and suddenly got forced out when her landlord went into foreclosure, ‘Someone came and knocked on the door and asked if we were showing the house, and that’s kind of how we found out that we had to leave.’”
“Realtor Nick Nolf helped her find a hot deal in the foreclosure market. The two-year-old home went for $370,000 in 2006. Last month, someone else’s misfortune got Scheitler an unbelievable deal, ”I paid $180,000 for the house and the seller contributed the closing costs.’”
“The Las Vegas valley now has more than 5,000 foreclosed properties on the market, and they are going first at bargain prices. So, has the market finally hit the bottom? ‘You never know the bottom of the market the day the bottom hits. You’ll find out maybe three to six months down the line when the actual bottom was. You’ll be able to look back and say, ‘Oh, that’s where the bottom was,’ said Nolf.”
The Review Journal from Nevada. “Foreclosures have nearly tripled in Clark County through September, and the number coming down the pike is growing. Las Vegas will probably see a slowdown in defaults and foreclosures in the short term with the introduction of new government bailout programs, Steve Hawks of ReMax Platinum said.”
“But a large percentage of original loans were done without income verification. If the homeowner cannot qualify for one of these programs, they’re probably ‘dead in the water,’ he said.”
“‘One thing is certain, the people buying now at 50 percent less than their neighbors is obviously going to cause more foreclosures, short sales or writedowns as current homeowners upside down by 50 percent see the time and cost of recovery as just too far off,’ Hawks said.”
“Tim Kelly, REO specialist for Brodkin Group, said thousands of real-estate owned properties are coming down the pipeline as some 250 notices of default are filed daily in Clark County. ‘It will be kind of like a small avalanche,’ he said.”
In Business Las Vegas from Nevada. “In Las Vegas…new-home sales in July (731) and August (792) were the weakest of the year. September is likely to be even worse because of the meltdown on Wall Street and tight lending standards. Through the end of August, new-home closings were down 49 percent compared with the first eight months of 2007. ‘All you have to do is look at the numbers, and you can see the (stimulus) has not helped the housing market,’ said Steve Bottfeld, executive VP of Marketing Solutions. ‘It didn’t have a huge impact. The tax credit can’t get you a mortgage, and that is the key issue on whether you can buy a home.’”
“Bottfeld, one of the biggest cheerleaders for the housing market, says he remains concerned about where the market is heading because he thought prices would start rising by the fourth quarter and first quarter of 2009. ‘Until prices go up, we are still going to be in a recession,’ Bottfeld says.”
“What the bailout won’t do, is address the long-term concerns of what triggered the need for the bailout in the first place, Bottfeld says. Housing needs to go back to being treated as shelter rather than a commodity, he says. ‘This bill is not doing that,’ Bottfeld says. ‘I love investors to death. They were 20 percent of the Las Vegas market up through the boom, but speculators are deadly because they don’t give a damn about the neighborhood. All they care about is turning a profit fast.’”
“Applied Analysis reported the number of resale homes on the MLS jumped by more than 359 units and was the largest weekly increase since May 2007. The number of vacant properties has also increased by nearly 400 during the past week. The number of owner-occupied homes declined by 50 to 7,568 and represents 34 percent of all homes listed for sale, the firm reports. Tenant-occupied units represent 9.5 percent of the total while vacant properties account for 57 percent.”
The Las Vegas Sun from Nevada. “Nevada’s largest condo-hotel project, the Trump International Hotel & Tower, has faced the full force of the housing slump as banks curtail mortgage lending. About 280, or 22 percent, of the tower’s 1,282 units have closed escrow as of a week ago, according to the Clark County assessor. About 62 units have closed since July 1.”
“Management has taken back a few hundred units, mostly from speculators and others with little chance of closing, and is renting those to the public, along with the others that have closed. Some have the cash to close but are waiting for the economy to rebound, said Jack Wishna, who owns a stake in the tower with developers Donald Trump and Phil Ruffin. They can take their time because neither banks nor management is forcing them to close.”
“Though that sounds like good news, many observers question the viability of a building that has been mostly vacant since it opened in March.”
“Potential buyers are struggling to secure mortgages at two major condominum-hotels as credit has tightened, even for the well-to-do. ‘I’ve never seen anything like it,’ New York billionaire developer Donald Trump said. ‘Historically, the banks will call me and beg for end loans. But they don’t do that any more because the banks are really out of business.’”
“Brock Davis said prospective condo-hotel buyers are now facing lenders who want as much as 50 percent down and require borrowers to have exceptional credit. The buyer must be willing to take adjustable-rate mortgages to obtain lower rates. ‘The rules have changed on qualifying,’ said Davis, who has been involved in the area’s mortgage industry for 30 years. ‘The still have to qualify better than normal on income, on credit and showing where your down payment is coming from.’”
“Rates on 30-year fixed-rate mortgages for banks willing to loan on condo-hotel purchases are as high as 8 percent to 9 percent, according to the latest data Davis had seen. ‘There’s just not the financing available at the interest rate or small down payments there was two years ago,’ Davis said. ‘That’s the problem.’”
“No one seems to know how the struggles of current buyers will carry over to a new series of condo-hotels coming on line in the next few years. Approximately 2,700 condo units at MGM Mirage’s CityCenter are scheduled to begin closing in September. The Cosmopolitan, which has deposits on 1,825 of 2,184 condo units available, said market conditions should improve by the time their buyers begin applying for mortgages in the second quarter of 2010.”
“Two other projects under construction, Fontainebleau, with 1,018 condo-hotel units, and the 398-unit St. Regis Residence at The Venetian Palazzo, have not begun selling their units.”
“A few potential buyers have had to walk away from their nonrefundable 20 percent deposits, Trump said. Some of the buyers have had to pay cash, Trump admitted, saying ‘the country is in a sad state.’ ‘People are having a hard time all over the country getting financing,’ Trump said. “It’s very sad for the people. There is no bank that gives them money.’”
Several things to be learned from this post. First:
‘From 2006 to 2007 we had this huge jump, 40 percent. The number jumped from about 28,000 filings in 2006 to 39,000 filings in ’07. I’m estimating we’ll probably see about 45,000 to 50,000 filings in 2008,’ said Ryan McMaken with the Division of Housing.’
If he’s right, this will be the fourth straight year of record foreclosures in Colorado. Think about that, CA, FL, AZ and NV.
Second:
‘All those bids were rejected late last week, a move Eric Nelson Auctioneering’s founder blames on ‘indecision’ among lenders caused by the government’s proposed bailout plan. ‘This has never happened before’…Nelson said. ‘That’s not a good thing to have when you’re trying to get the economy back on track. It’s disheartening for buyers and sellers and it has a real economic impact with thousands and thousands of homes coming on the market.’
It’s becoming clear that these government interventions will cause more, not fewer, foreclosures. This isn’t a surprise; government efforts to solve anything almost always make the situation worse.
I’m going to borrow a line from a movie;
Foreclosures are good.
This is the logical, legal way that bad loans are purged and houses end up serving a purpose. People can’t get loans? That’s also good. Right now the average person shouldn’t be buying anything. The markets are trying to force a quick reduction in house prices, and punish the foolish at the same time. These things are not only neccessary, but desirable for the long term health of the market.
If the government wants something to fix, here it is:
‘There’s a greed factor in all this. It was a matter of time. It was bound to happen, and God willing, everything will bottom out and we’ll start all over again.’ Added his wife: ‘If our Social Security checks don’t come, we’ll be in trouble.’
And lastly, we have Mr Trump, who was doing flipper-palooza events at the top of the market, getting to eat his own cooking. I recall how he bragged that his condo-tel would go on when the others pulled the plug.
It doesn’t get any better than this!
He’s got one of those in New York, too.
The area was zoned for industry, but industrial zoning allows hotels but not housing (the rules are dumb, don’t ask). So he gets the site for a low price, and claims it will be a hotel — with kitchens, etc.
So they make him take the kitchens out and approve the building permit. It’s going up now.
You know what my suggestion is? Affordable housing. Post bankruptcy, rezone let them put the kitchenette back in as long as it is sold for cheap enough, because otherwise they get nothing.
How many times and The Donald go broke and still get on TV?
Bwwaaaahaaahhaa!
Ben, question for you: I generally agree that govt interventions will only make things worse, but how specifically does banks holding property off the market & rejecting bids make it worse?
My thought is that it will make the correction much LONGER in duration, but might make it more shallow over that longer time-period.
I believe that it’s best to let the market forces run their course as quickly as possible, and get it done and behind us.
But I suspect that the PTB believe a longer, slower contraction may be better, in that it may avoid the “overshoot” in prices that are caused by panic. Panic is hard to maintain over the long-haul, and will fade into an accepting and abiding despair eventually.
Thoughts?
“Thoughts?”
How’d the longer, slower contraction pan out for the Japanese?
I’ll let you know when it’s finally over…
“Thoughts?”
-
You may be over thinking this.
The abyss they looked over was 10s and 10s of millions of Americans not only NOT paying their mortgage, but also maxing their cards and then deciding they are never going to pay.
That’s what this is really all about.
And their cars, and student loans…
The longer, slower contraction is better for us old-fashioned lenders, because our loans actually amortize in a finite time, and the slower fall of prices keeps the amortization ahead of the depreciation. It’s the reason why az_lender’s clientele are all performing well. If prices of the properties securing my loans do eventually come down by another 25%, that’s OK — but if it happened tomorrow, a few of my borrowers might be tempted to walk away. Indeed, if depreciation everywhere were no more than 5% per year, hardly anybody besides the I/O or neg-am crowd would be underwater. OK, there’s the argument for slow. I admit I can see the argument for fast, too.
Comment by Ben Jones
2008-10-15 10:40:06
“I’m going to borrow a line from a movie;
Foreclosures are good.”
-
I feel better.
How is that so many miss the basic point that there is nothing that can be done to stop the decline in house prices. Prices will fall in line with incomes, the only question is how we get there. I just finished watching Wayne Angell (former Fed governor) on CNBC, ranting about how the government needs to get Fannie and Freddie to prop up the housing market. I guess that worked so well the first time, might as well try it again.
I saw that too. I thought the CNBC guys were laughing at him. He is another clueless govt hack.
Some high muck-a-mucks in the financial world are getting the education of a lifetime from the common man these days. Here is a WSJ Letter to the editor that appeared in today’s paper.
Home Market Needs Price Discovery
You know things are seriously messed up when even R. Glenn Hubbard and Chris Mayer, economists of otherwise impeccable conservative credentials, recommend government action to interfere with the price discovery mechanism of the housing market (”First, Let’s Stabilize Home Prices,” op-ed, Oct. 2).
Housing prices collapsed because old prices reached unsustainable levels. The public policy objectives should not be to try to restore those old, unsustainable price levels. Losses incurred due to price drops from those old levels are real. In the long run that cannot be avoided by government action.
The problem right now is not so much low housing prices as it is falling prices. People are reluctant to buy a house as long as they feel the market has further to fall. If the government were to be perceived as propping up housing price, a legitimate pickup in housing activity and prices simply wouldn’t happen.
JERRY H. TEMPELMAN
New York
“It’s becoming clear that these government interventions will cause more, not fewer, foreclosures.”
In what way? I’m not sure it’s a causal relationship.
It seems to me foreclosures are simply flat-out ignoring the existence of any potential bailout. Perhaps they’ll cause more if the interventions do to foreclosures what they’ve done to the stock market….zero confidence.
(There’s that psychology thing we keep coming back to)
“Added his wife: ‘If our Social Security checks don’t come, we’ll be in trouble.’”
Imagine what would happen if you cut-off the masses from the financial i.v. drip that is Social Security?
AARPageddon
Yeah, OK, the old will lead a revolution. That’s happened every single time! It’s always the old people screaming for a new world order.
Old people of the world unite!
MFH!!
(We need a new acronym for responding to posts we like and this is mine - Mother Fawkin’ Hilarious!!)
No problem if you were “at or over 55″ when Bush said the words. After all McCain has just promised to cut the tax rate on retirement income to 10%, no matter how high it is! Obama says no income tax for seniors up to $50K, and let’s bid it up from there.
There will be less than nothing for anyone born after 1956 or so.
You actually believe this nonsense?
Wow, man, you’re naive beyond naive.
After they win, they’re gonna be like, “We can’t afford this. Oh, you voted for us? What are you gonna do about it?”
Shee-yat, this country is filled with some seriously fresh-out-of-the-village-naive people. They actually believe in things, ponder that!
In my lifetime….it’s more like the american ream than the american dream.
Oh I hear ya. Read the rest of the RGJ article and you’ll catch this little naive (soon to be rudely awakened) Nevadan saying this…..
“Angela Strahan, 20, holds firmly to hope, believing that her goal of a college degree will assure her solid, well-paying employment and a bright future ahead.”
“It’s part of being American,” said the University of Nevada, Reno, communications major. “I’m an optimist. I recognize what’s going on. But if people give up faith and hope, it’s just a self-fulfilling prophesy.”
Part of being an American?!! Angela, I suggest you find the nearest frat party, snuggle up to the dude with coolest bong and the heftiest bag, because pretty soon your little fantasy party will be over. Welcome to the new era of bigtime sacrifice and bustin’ your a$$ to get by……with or without a college degree.
We had a recent article here about University of Tampa seniors, some with debt of $100,000, struggling to find jobs, in part because there were “no positions that matched their skills.” The world’s biggest rug has just been pulled out from under American young people.
Both candidates touting college.
Those that toil will get the spoil.
I approve this message based on common ground.
Leigh
We had a recent article here about University of Tampa seniors, some with debt of $100,000, struggling to find jobs, in part because there were “no positions that matched their skills.”
It’s because so many college students get degrees in subjects that are unlikely to lead to any sort of gainful employment (i.e., journalism, fashion merchandising, theater & dance, art, etc.). Increasingly, American teens seem to be treating college as a four-year-long frat party where nobody has to put out much effort towards learning anything.
The real problem is that very few careers come with entry-level salaries that can support 100k in school debt. The real problem is skyrocketing tuition. Why did some many grads gravitate toward the hedge fund/private equity/i-banking clusterf*ck? So that they could pay their exorbitantly expensive rent, food costs, and loan repayments. College shouldn’t be vo-tech. That’s what professional schools are for. But college is obsolete unless it’s affordable without being vo-tech for the highest paying jobs. And if we do continue using it as vo-tech, the model has to change, because not every kid that can spell his or her name can go on the be in the top 10% of earners, which is what would be required to service the associated debt. The numbers just don’t add up.
SS is no different than the California tax payer paying for all those retirement benefits for city and state employees.
Except that the average SS benefit is a fraction of the typical cop/fireman pension.
Exactly. They are broke.
The pension $$$ are gone/missing!
Bad news.
Sell at the market.
Here come new lows.
As above, az_lender is the beneficiary of Federal policies. Social Security goes on while wages evaporate. Thus, az_lender’s borrowers can still pay the mortgage while Hard Working Families cannot. A friend said, “Well, what’re you gonna do when your clients all lose their jobs?” I said, “They can’t lose their jobs, they don’t HAVE jobs.” Not entirely true — a few are nurses or teachers, and one is (SHUDDER) a mortgage clerk — THAT one I do worry about.
‘People are having a hard time all over the country getting financing,’ Trump said. “It’s very sad for the people. There is no bank that gives them money.’”
The ‘Donald’ has me confused… When did banks ever ‘give’ people money? Of course this coming from the King of screwing lenders through bankruptcy, should be no surprise.
Looks like TRMP may be circling the drain.
I really hate it when the banks don’t “give” me money.
dear the Donald
YOUR FIRED
“Prices of lakeside homes that sold for $134,000 in the early ’90s finally boomed. And then came the current bust. ‘This house was appraised at $620,000,’ Charles Allen said. ‘Now we’re lucky if we get 400.’”
WAHHHHH!!!! The only reason he probably knows it was appraised at 620 is he probably took the equity out.
So he takes a 50% haircut down to $310,000. Paid 134K 15-16 years ago…..that works out to about 130% appreciation.
Not Hedge-Fundesqe, but nothing to sneer at, either.
So whats he complaining about?
So whats he complaining about?……ummmmm i guess he owes $400K on a $310K noose.
Sucks to be him……..:)
“Soon-to-be homeowner Deb Hughes has decided she’s going to invest in what she still believes is a bright future, and she’s glad there are lenders willing to help her. ‘I’m 48. I’ve seen this happen before,’ Hughes said. ‘I lost a half million dollars in the stock market in 2000.’
Get ready to lose another half mil, Deb. Moron.
I was going to provide a similar comment. Burned by bubbles to the tune of $500k and she is still running into the fire rather than waiting for a bottom. Talk about be a masochist. Why doesnt she just give all her money to charity or something if she doesnt want it?
I will never understand the “must make sellers, salesmen and bankers rich mentality.” I prefer to spend my money on my family and sound retirement planning.
That sounds good, Natalie, but whaat constitutes sound retirement planning in this environment? Liquid investments have a way of evaporating. (I’m NOT advocating real property investment, mind you.)
Tim “Talk about be a masochist.”
Some people are into that Tim.
Not that there is anything wrong with that.
3% down, FHA, less than stellar credit, office manager for holistic medicine office? Damn!!!
Mortgage rates on Bank Of America website is showing 30 yr conforming fixed at 7.125 with 8.87 pt. Jumbo is over 10%. Calif pricing.
Can’t tell you how smug that real estate agents have been around here in Sonoma. When I have talked to them about making bids on foreclosure property at 50% and 75% off the asking price they just laughed me off and this is for property that has been run up 400 to 600%. I be waiting and my price keeps dropping.
ron,
Next time a smug UHS laughs at your offer, ask him WHY the BofA is “offering” Jumbo’s at 10%? ( The answer is because they don’t WANT to do them! )
At least that’s what it’s telling me?
If the run-up was 400-600%, why would you consider offers at 50% of asking?? Isn’t that a recipe to lose 2/3 of your money while the price keeps going down to historically-reasonable valuations?
points should be .887 LOL
Anybody else have issues with “Deb Hughes”? She makes a ton of money ( but has cr@ppy credit ) She lost half a mil. in the stock market ( but she’s BUYING in the 3rd inning of a correction )
She’s single ( well THAT part makes sense? )
Is this what they mean when they say “holistic”? I’m lost here.
I’m just wondering how someone that stupid had a half million to start with….
parrish dave,
I’m sure the post will pop up but my hard fought experience was that… they didn’t. A lot of people had rinky-dinky 401k rollovers and traded them into a fortune. ( Temporarily )
I knew of many people that took the tax hit and converted them to “cash accounts” just so they could use margin! I mean after all, why not? Just like RE, the stock market only goes ‘up’, right?
Parrish Dave, would you contact me offline nvrsatis at hotmail . com. I’d like to ask you about some in your neck of the woods. Thanks.
communities.
‘I lost a half million dollars in the stock market in 2000. The economy is in a slump right now, but we’re going to come back. The American people are powerful.’”
The American People are broke, you can pump all the liquidity into he market you like but until Joe sixpack sells off the boat, SUV, dirt bikes, ATV’s, Harleys, etc to pay down debt we aren’t anywhere near recovering.
So now she’s gunning to lose in the housing market too? Stupid is as stupid does.
Yeah, it’s pretty annoying at this point to see a FB drag out the populist appeals. When she was up $500k in the market - I wonder what her opinion of the American people was? Now she wants to ride on the back of their labor just so her house can appreciate?
Mo Money,
As it turns out I know a LOT of people that “lost a half a million dollars” in the market in 2000!?
( They started out with about FIVE GRAND and day traded and MARGINED their way to get there, but..! ) If you’re like me you got awfully tired of hearing how 5 or 25k run up to unsustainable levels “ruined” somebody’s life? You find yourself thinking ( Dude, I’ve seen you blow 5k in a weekend )
Can we please make sure we shut down any Flippers claiming to have been “rounding 3rd and heading for home”?
My question though is; whom exactly is J6P going to sell his toys ‘too’?
I’ll buy em- At 10 cents on the dollar, and they best be mint condition or I’m not interested.
“whom exactly is J6P going to sell to?”
DinOR, I had exactly the same question. My cousin Sherry (who is also a close relative of J6P) has been selling Stuff to pay the mortgage for several years. The market for Stuff has dried up. Finally she’s caught on and is going to try to sell the GD house. Shoulda happened long ago, but after her husband died she felt sentimentally attached to the house and wasn’t ready to let it go. She actually still has equity IMO if she unloads it fast enough, which means she’d better take RE people’s advice about what price a motivated seller should ask for.
The American People are broke, you can pump all the liquidity into he market you like but until Joe sixpack sells off the boat, SUV, dirt bikes, ATV’s, Harleys, etc to pay down debt we aren’t anywhere near recovering.
To be honest I don’t know any J6Ps that have all these toys. Maybe a pickup and a small boat. I don’t know anyone with a Harley.
True story, so the Foreclosed 4 bedroom house I was watching finally sells at auction after a good 9 months of being empty. New owners are young couple, no kids. 1 new boat, 1 new SUV, 1 new car. Garage so full I couldn’t see what else they have stuffed in there. I’ll be keeping a cynical eye on that place to see how long 4 payments can last.
Mo Money,
LOL! Yes, please DO keep us up to date. In our small OR town we really have folks like “In Colorado” mentions ( the old guard ) where family “shares” a boat, then we have the bubble bucks crowd and their garages look like they just hit the big time on The Price Is Right.
New Harley’s, jet-ski’s, quads, the works. You find yourself wondering how they’ll get the garage door closed?
I’m on the way to Dubai in the next few months to work, and importing a car is less than 2k in shipping costs. I’ll bet a Harley is really cheap to ship. I’ll buy one from a(n) FB!
Mr. Russ Johnson of SLC, I will buy your $1M home for $1. I can put some of my relatives in it for cheaper than rent. I can give them below market rent and cash flow positive. I will up the offer to $10.
I figure I should throw in an Idaho story in this thread….
The Donald Trump of Idaho is Tamarack’s Jean-Pierre Buttplug. He just got a lesson in bankruptcy law from a judge here locally.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/531/story/537977.html
“[Bankruptcy Judge] Myers said the maneuver wasn’t designed to reorganize their companies, but rather to buy Boespflug and Miguel enough time to find new investors.”
(From the article)
Can somebody please tell me what is the deal with all these “Celebrity Endorsements” ??
I, for the life of me, don’t understand this need that some people have to be seen with the “beautiful people”/athletes/movie stars/whatever. Any why would the remote possibility of being the neighbor of a celebrity (because they have a condo or apartment in the development) influence people to pay a premium for that property?
Same deal with photo and autograph hunters…..so you stood in close proximity to someone for two minutes and got a picture or autograph. Big deal. It isn’t like you went out drinking with them or something. Do you need it to prove to your friends/ acquaintances that you saw someone in person? Why do you need to prove it? Either they believe you, or they don’t……and if they don’t believe you, it may be you have a problem with telling the truth to begin with.
Sorry for being cranky (just got off the phone after a shouting match with the ex-)……rant off
I like the rant and completly understand what you are saying. I worked a highend FBO and when the celebs came thru it was always a big deal for some. Why… so you can see them walk. Autograph…Why, so you can forge checks. I didn’t get it.
And whats with the Wagnor guy pushing reverse mortgages, he didn’t make enough money in the movies so now he’s got to ripoff old people? That makes me sick.
Mo Money, if Joe Sixpack needs to sell all of his toys, there aren’t nearly enough of us with some money to buy these. And, just like houses, we would only need one boat, SUV, dirt bikes, ATV’s, Harleys. And I don’t want to maintain all of these ‘toys’. If I really wanted one for a ‘once in a while’, much cheaper to rent. Some money guru in a book did write that, and I think that is true in most cases. Didn’t we now hear that with housing? LOL
“…there aren’t nearly enough of us with some money to buy these…”
Not only don’t I want to buy their used garbage, but if I do want any of those things maybe I’ll just buy new for the heck of it. Because whether it’s houses or harleys the mfg. and the FB are in a race to the bottom together.
If I buy a new widget I just might help keep some widget makers employed.
Whatever we do, buy new, buy used, or rent we will all do what’s best for us. It’ll just be fun to watch the FBs and the mfg. knock each other out in competition for our dollars.
edgewaterjohn,
That is an excellent point. In the past it’s always been a knee-jerk reaction of mine to have some new gadget catch my eye and then immediately “see what a used one goes for?”
( I suppose to gauge how much depreciation I’d be eating? )
You’ve inspired me! From now on I’ll at least consider “buying new” to save someone’s job over saving some FB’s @$$, fair enough?
I just got a new truck for close to the price of a 3 year old used one. The manufacturer gave back $2500 and the dealer knocked $4000 below that for a price $4500 below invoice (the dealer really only took $2000 off since they sell for invoice on occasion). No doubt this will also influence used vehicle prices, but it will take a while.
I paid cash and they weren’t even mad about it.
climber,
Well see? There you go! Outstanding.
In the past, it was always fun. I loved hitting the pawn shops and haggling etc. Because I’ve spent such a large portion of my life “selling” ( I really savored my time on the “buy side” )
No more. You have a lot of desperate FB’s out there with equally unrealistic expectations on their toys as they do their homes. Again, what you paid for it or owe on it is no concern of mine. I always make sure to call the guys that list stuff on Craigslist and say “Firm! Don’t even try lowballing!” ( just for a laugh )
I like that one too EWJ! I’m originally from Central IL and that appeals to my senses. New it shall be.
Yea…I hear you…and if you buy something new the insurance companies put the scams to you.
RE: Because whether it’s houses or harleys the mfg. and the FB are in a race to the bottom together.
Harley-Davidson is a survivor….no debt-brand recognition worldwide…they’ll be around. They’ll just cut back production
to keep things square. Best stock to have owned for last 20 years. $10k in ‘86 IPO worth $1.1 mil in ‘06 with splits and reinvested dividends.
But I wouldn’t go new for an HD right now if I were you, EJ.
Drive a $21k model off the floor right now, and you’d better like the color, because you’ll be out at least $10k if you need to unload.
Plus, there’s been heat problems with the increased displacement motors and the new 6 speed isn’t all that better than the old 5sp according to a bud who traded up.
Right now used machines are everywhere for very reasonable prices.
I recommend a ‘03 thru ‘06 TC88 with mileage below 25k.
HD’s are like fine wine…there’s good years and bad years.
That was a great post.
And that is why deprecation on these toys and second cars will be so steep. I admit I would pick up a “new” used car if it was cheap enough. This is now my third major downturn I’ve lived through and I still expect to pick up some things I’ve wanted on the cheap like I’ve done the past two times. The pain has yet to come, the cracks are just appearing.
Mo, if you think either of the others was “major” you ain’t seen nuthin yet. (I assume you’re less than 90 years old.) No disrespect intended.
RE: Deb Hughes has decided she’s going to invest in what she still believes is a bright future, and she’s glad there are lenders willing to help her. ‘I’m 48. I’ve seen this happen before,’ Hughes said. ‘I lost a half million dollars in the stock market in 2000.
Pretty damn perky for someone who’s lost a cool half mil, especially at age 48.
Was just taking to a friend this AM who had a male neighbor $600k in hock to lenders and the IRS. Said the dude just disappeared.
Musta cleaned out hubs in divorce court and has moved on to the next sucker. WTF…easy come, easy go!
Or she has some gold plated assets……
I’m sure hd74man can do the math…….:)
uhhhhhhhh 6 + 9 = 69
hd74man,
Oh I think we’ll be seeing plenty of that before this is over. I just hope the IRS and FBI are a teensy bit more watchful as these fools descend upon Anytown, USA starting up new scams to recover their “losses”.
RE: Oh I think we’ll be seeing plenty of that before this is over. I just hope the IRS and FBI are a teensy bit more watchful as these fools descend upon Anytown, USA starting up new scams to recover their “losses”.
I botched my post, DinOR.
Anonymous Coward will be right on my azz.
My intent was to demonstrate the paradox in attitude between someone who has scored a half mil thru divorce court and subsequently lost it in the dot com. bust; (tee hee…easy come, easy go) vs. the actions of a man who has lost his $600k earned by busting his rump.
Anyway, there’s no future bright blue sky in his case
Seems Mama who kept the books for the guy’s landscaping biz didn’t pay the IRS for a decade. He made $60k in delinquency payments for a couple years then gave up and blew town
“Mason said a ‘huge amount’ of investor speculation, subprime lending and home construction contributed to the dramatic inflation of home prices and put many buyers in homes they eventually were unable to afford when the market turned downward.
Statements like this have a subtle bias! It’s like Obama talking about “working people” vs. “wealthy people”
If a person is “unable to afford a home” when the market tanked, then he too is a speculator! Notice he didn’t say “unable to afford after he lost his job”, but “after the market turned downward.” That’s speculation!
Serf’s Up…
“Tim Kelly, REO specialist for Brodkin Group, said thousands of real-estate owned properties are coming down the pipeline as some 250 notices of default are filed daily in Clark County. ‘It will be kind of like a small avalanche,’ he said.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8__EwAT8VM
EmperorNorton_II,
To cool! I’ve always been a huge fan of the surf-guitar sound and The Ventures. “The Band that launched a Thousand Bands!”
“The couple bought the house for $480,000, and it jumped in value just two years later. He refinanced the home after it was appraised for $619,000 to finish the basement.”
Was it yesterday we had the $120,000 backyard improvements, and today we have the $139,000 basement finishing. Did he use flooring made of real gold?
Notice that he took every single penny of equity out of the house and spent it.
Notice that he took every single penny of equity out of the house and spent it.
No, no. He “liberated” the equity.
Speaking of deadly speculators, what’chy’all think of these apples?
Sarkozy urges clampdown on hedge funds, offshores
Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:56am EDT
Oil falls to 13-month low on recession worry
Wall Street plummets as data feeds recession worry
Economic activity weak across U.S.: Fed Beige Book
BRUSSELS, Oct 15 (Reuters) - President Nicolas Sarkozy called at a European Union summit on Wednesday for a clamp-down on hedge funds and offshore centres as part of efforts to better regulate the world financial system.
“I would propose a simple principle, that no financial institution should escape regulation and supervision,” he said according to a copy of a speech to the EU summit in Brussels.
TIME Magazine
Hedge Funds: How the Smart Money Looked Dumb
By Stephen Gandel Wednesday, Oct. 15, 2008
The ups and downs of the Dow are making Wall Street’s so-called smart money look dopey. Hedge funds lost nearly $300 billion due to bad investments in the first nine months of the year, according to an analysis of return data by TIME.com. If the losses stand, it would be by far the worst year for these funds — which are unregulated and open only to high-net-worth investors — since their returns began being tracked in the mid-1970s. “It’s not going to be a good year,” says Peter Laurelli, vice president at HedgeFund.net. “We can be pretty sure of that.”
Professor Bear,
I’ll have to read the article in it’s entirety but I think gov’s have (2) choices. 1) Get these @$$clowns on a leash or 2) face the fact that J6P won’t be adjudicating dollar/euro (1) for their 401k toward stocks. Period.
Boomers have already been run off, tail between legs. ( They won’t be coming back, hell they can’t afford it! ) As fewer and fewer dollars are earmarked for even index funds, what will these clowns have ‘to’ short?
“…what will these clowns have ‘to’ short?”
I would love to see an estimate of the aggregate loss to hedge funds over the period when the SEC’s short sale ban was in place. Please post if anyone has one handy.
Professor Bear,
It would only be an estimate at best. Unlike regular open-ended mutual funds, these guys are not AMIR Compliant. There is no 3rd party auditing, they tell their clients… whatever they want I suppose. One mgr. won HF Of The Year and was out of business 3 mos. later.
I just think it’s totally unreasonable to ask the American Worker to continue to provide a back drop or “foil” for these clowns to play off of. At what point are 401k participants simply going to run the numbers and say “I’ll have to build my retirement model off of mmkt returns”?
I think the average down for the year is now something just under 10%. And the total assets under management by hedge funds is … I don’t know, but shouldn’t be too difficult to find an estimate. Not all of this can be attributed to the ban, of course, but most managers are blaming it on that and on Lehman’s collapse for causing the “unusual market conditions” that resulted in the losses.
Most hedge funds are AIMR compliant (now GIPS, btw). And probably more than half (by AUM, not count) are now registered. And not all advisers, registered or not, use GIPS. It’s voluntary. And it’s nothing more than a set of rules to follow in measuring performance. Has nothing to do with risk management or common sense regarding use of leverage, the lack of which (common sense, not leverage) has caused the blow-ups. And hedge funds are audited. The only exception I’ve seen is Bayou Management, which some people might remember as making news for being a Ponzi scheme a while back. But, on second thought, it was audited… It just happened that the audit firm’s sole employee was one of the Bayou principal’s brother-in-law.
RE: Boomers have already been run off, tail between legs. ( They won’t be coming back, hell they can’t afford it! )
My mother got an alumnus letter from her alma mater today.
It’s $57k a year at Boston University for the full ride boaters.
LMAO…the world has gone nuts.
They’re trying to stick the next generation with all the debt. Hope some will wise up and see that College is not always worth it. BTW, Boston U is ALSO having a hiring freeze. (Says my friend in Camb.) Hmm, maybe nobody can actually pay the $57K.
The ups and downs of the DOW are making Hedge funds look dopey. The smart money like Warren Buffet are sitting around with sad “I told you so” looks on their faces.
I’m not at all surprised that jerks like those who make up TIME magazine are too stupid to tell the smart money from the pretenders. This whole fiasco is making it way easier to tell smart journalists from dumb ones too.
What did the hedge fund managers lose when they lost $300 bn for their clients? Not much, I am guessing…
Lol.
When they win they get 20% of the winnings.
When they lose …, well, it’s not really their money.
Hedge fund monies are burning brightly and hot in the global financial market’s firestorm.
Financial Times
Withdrawals from US hedge funds reach $43bn in September
By Deborah Brewster and Henny Sender in New York
Published: October 16 2008 03:00 | Last updated: October 16 2008 03:00
Investors pulled at least $43bn from US hedge funds in September as market turmoil led to unprecedented withdrawals, an analysis by a leading research house shows.
The data from TrimTabs Investment Research - which was to be sent to clients late yesterday - come as hedge funds are working to prevent far bigger redemptions by the end of the year, when many funds give investors a chance to take out money.
Withdrawals can lead to a vicious circle in the markets, as funds sell holdings to return money to clients, depressing prices and prompting further redemptions.
To prevent such an outcome, some hedge funds had offered to suspend fees if investors kept their money in until March, said Marc Freed, of Lyster Watson, which invests in hedge funds on behalf of institutional and private clients.
“Every investor fears other investors will pull their money and so they worry they will be at the back of the line if they don’t also pull,” Mr Freed said.
“Nobody will invest in anything illiquid because they think they may not survive long enough to see them rise in value.”
A fundraiser for a major hedge fund said the period “between now and December 1 is a sort of death march” for the industry.
“…at least $43bn from US hedge funds in September…”
BTW, in case you haven’t checked the calendar lately, October is already half over, and I begin to suspect the hedge funds are not faring a lot better this month than last.
“We are such an instant-gratification society,’ said Don Childears, president of the Colorado Bankers Association. ‘That’s what led to this problem. We all wanted that neat home immediately, and the new car and furniture to go with it. We got addicted to credit. We lived that way. We’re basically paying a price for that.”
I love how they always say “we.”
“I love how they always say “we.””
Except when they hand out the government gift baskets. At that point in time, renters and people that pay their debt service on time are excluded. I’m sorry Miss, but gift baskets are only for irresponsible.
Probably has a weasel in his pocket.
“An auction that netted $7.5 million in bids on 56 distressed Utah properties fell through last week after the owners — three banks and two private lenders — decided they may get a better deal by holding out for the government’s bailout plan. ..
all those bids were rejected late last week, a move Eric Nelson Auctioneering’s founder blames on ‘indecision’ among lenders caused by the government’s proposed bailout plan.”
that’s EXACTLY the reason I refused to bid on any of these so-called houses for auction here in Sacramento during the past year. these were not true auctions but fishing expeditions launched by the lenders to reel in suckers.
oh sure, just count me in to bid on a fixerupper, needing major repairs, sketch neighborhood and more problems while the auction company holds my NON-REFUNDABLE deposit while browbeating me to accept their preferred lender in the settlement room after informing me the lender nixed my bid.
yessirree, why, I be a daggum fool not to give away any/all reasonably normal buying terms to participate in this clusterphuk because men in fancy tuxedos yell at me to bid, bid, BID!!
and good luck waiting for your deposit money to refund in a timely manner. oh yes, one more thing; good luck at getting it back at all because the lender will claim that YOU the bidder cancelled the deal ifyou dont accept their counteroffer.
ok, now that my typing finger is loosened up, just one more thing: banks! (spits) . . . they always have to have the upper hand. never fair treatment, they must always come out ahead. just like a crybaby farmer who keeps the difference between what he pays a slave immigrant field hand & market price, then whines endlessly, the bankers keep the huge spread between the feds rate cut to 2% and offered to consumers @8-9%. (I went into a local B of A monday to see if their lending rates had dropped ? HA! HA HA HAAA)!!
hell, why stop at a taxpayer bailout & rate cute to 2%? give em ALL our money. they’ll just rape us anyway. just pass out a KY kit w/the next consumer stimulus check and be done with it already.
lying bastard thieves!!
When is this CRAP going to STOP?!!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27201970/
“The germ of destruction of our nation is in the power of the judiciary, an irresponsible body — working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall render powerless the checks of one branch over the other and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated.”
Thomas Jefferson
If Bernanke had said this back in the day instead of sucking up, he would not be Fed chairman now.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=a_EGuB7kQmyo&refer=home
“Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said the central bank will consider discarding its long- standing aversion to interfering with asset-price bubbles and warned that the banking business may be concentrated in too few companies.”
“Officials should review how supervision and interest rates can minimize the ‘dangerous phenomenon’ of bubbles in housing, stocks and other assets that risk bringing the financial system and economy down with them when they burst, Bernanke said.”
Whadda pila kr@pp. The govt NEEDS inflation to keep people from noticing that real wages don’t increase and that savings don’t really earn interest. If you insist on inflation, you will always produce bubbles. Hey, what’s wrong with deflation. Lotsa folks here are cash-heavy, we get richer every day with the defl.
He refinanced the home after it was appraised for $619,000 to finish the basement.”
Don’t people just pay as they go anymore? Sheesh, we finished our basement without a 2nd mortgage. People used to do all kinds of remodeling and even add rooms without getting loans, just paying as they went along and looking for deals.
I’m just not buying this serial remodeling loan BS. People are either lying or they need to learn some carpentry skills.
This is really odd. Here in Boise many builders treat an over-the-garage “bonus room” as a true bonus room: they are stark and unfinished. I recall one reached via a stairway with a landing. From the bottom you could see carpet covering the stairs, but when you reached the landing you saw the upper stairs were just plywood, as was the floor of the bonus room. The walls were taped but otherwise unfinished drywall, and the ceiling light was a bare bulb. It was intended as a way to give some cheap room for expansion for a young cash-strapped couple who could then take their time and finish it to their satisfaction.
Leveraged speculation is dead. Hedge funds cannot cover their fee’s plus gov’t around the world are pretty pissed over the commodity speculation in food and oil which created wide spread panic, believe me Hedge funds will be the focus of gov’t financial regulation for many years.
Oh goody. The first question I want answered is how much of the special facility money the Fed loaned out to Megabank, Inc. at below-market interest rates earlier this year in an attempt to normalize lending markets was diverted to hedge funds who used it to speculate in commodities?
PB,
Right, it’s like going to Best Buy to purchase a laptop and being ushered through the brightly lit showroom directly to the alley and buying one out of the trunk of the manager’s car?
Wha..? Can’t wait to see these guys regulated out of existence.
Lightly regulated, my arse. Organized crime is lightly regulated.
“diverted to hedge funds who used it to speculate in commodities?”
I vote all of it was, except for their fees of coarse.
NAR has been strangely quiet over the last 6 months. It appears they and their membership will escape any blame for this crisis.
fred hooper!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Yes, near ‘deathly’ silent. Along with the Nat’l Assoc. of HomeBuilders and the Mortgage Banker’s Assoc! I can’t believe it? Even Bernanke said… in so many words in his address in NY earlier today that we need to remind ourselves that no matter how complicated this situation gets… it all originates with BAD mortgage backed securities! ( Emphasis mine )
Well that’s great Ben, you’re on the road to recovery. Now just connect the last (2) dots and you’re home free. Who ORIGINATED these loans, and who “pre-qualified” and SOLD the property to the buyer!?
I was encouraged to even hear him say anything along those lines though I can tell ya’.
I had a friend whose cousin would do this when playing hide-and-seek as kids. He’d sit in the middle of the living room all quiet-like and close his eyes, thinking no one could see him…
As it turns out, it wasn’t a very effective strategy. Who knew?
I am watching Larry Kudlow on CNBC interviewing Kudlow. Right before it went back to Kudlow, there was a commercial for Fox Business News. It was calling Jim Cramer horrible and said he recommended Wachovia and it tanked. CNBC calls Jim Cramer their financial guru. For real business news, tune into fox business news. And this was on CNBC! I was thinking, oh sh&*!
Did anyone else see this?
I saw that add. I thought the same thing, isn’t he on this channel.