October 27, 2008

It’s Just The Beginning In Florida

The Naples News reports from Florida. “In Collier County, it’s the more affordable communities that have been hurt the most. From Jan. 1 to Oct. 8, the county had 1,500 final judgments for mortgage foreclosures on single-family homes, with a total mortgage balance of more than $522 million, according to a report. Construction workers and real estate agents have been hard hit in Southwest Florida. They are among the hundreds who have lost their homes this year in Golden Gate and Golden Gate Estates. Tony Perez, a real estate agent in Naples, is working with a seller in Golden Gate Estates who has seen his work dry up with a pool company and has fallen behind on his mortgage payments. With creative financing, many buyers put no money down and got into homes they couldn’t really afford, Perez said.”

“‘If you lose your job and you have 100 percent financing on your house, your chances of staying in the house are pretty slim,’ said Rick Parlante of the Parlante Group with Coldwell Banker Residential Real Estate in Southwest Florida. ‘They are walking away from it. That is what is happening.’”

“Investors in Golden Gate and Golden Gate Estates have also been hurt by plummeting values and sluggish sales. They are abandoning mortgages they can’t or don’t want to pay. ‘A lot of people got caught up in this. A lot of good Realtors got caught up in this,’ Parlante said.”

“There haven’t been any judgments this year in such wealthy communities as Port Royal or Aqualane Shores, where there are multimillion-dollar mansions, said Naples real estate expert Ross McIntosh. If the economy doesn’t improve soon, however, more expensive homes could fall into foreclosure.”

“‘People aren’t prepared to go five years without any income, whether they make $50,000 or $500,000 a year. When the spigot gets shut off, sooner or later you lose your house,’ McIntosh said.”

“Many Western Europeans are beginning to feel the effects of their own real estate and lending problems, said Steve Barker, a local broker who focuses on buyers from the U.K. He said his British clients have been hit especially hard. ‘They have as big of a mortgage crisis as we do,’ Barker said. ‘That makes it very difficult to look across the ocean to buy a home.’”

“In the past 12 months or so, Barker said, his clients have seen their down-payments rise to as high as 50 percent, up from 25 percent, of a home’s value. The difficulty in securing loans means that real-estate attorney Raymond Bowie has seen his Naples law firm hit hard. ‘Not even a call,’ Bowie said of his international business in the past month. ‘The financing market for foreign nationals has pretty much dried up.’”

The News Press. “The Lee County court system is amping up its processing of foreclosures - good news for neighbors of some abandoned homes but carrying with it an added risk of driving down prices in an already declining market. The system has a backlog of 29,000 cases, the result of about 2,400 foreclosures filed per month.”

“The real urgency in speeding things up is that many of the homes being foreclosed on in Lee County are decaying as vandals, mold and heat take their toll, county Clerk of Court Charlie Green said. ‘How long do you want to stretch this agony out?’ he said. ‘You don’t want those properties out there decaying.’”

“Others are less enthusiastic. ‘I would much rather just stay the course,” said Elmer Tabor, owner of Wonderland Realty in Cape Coral. ‘If all of a sudden we get a huge supply that starts coming out of the court system, if anything that’s going to drop (prices) further.’”

“With about 15,000 houses already on the market, a surge in supply could drive down prices and make it less attractive for even solvent home owners to continue paying their mortgages, he said. The median price of an existing single-family home reached a peak of $322,300 in December 2005 at the height of the housing boom but had fallen 56 percent to $141,400 in September, according to the Florida Association of Realtors.”

“One property owner in a foreclosure-plagued condominium said he’d like to see things speeded up so lenders will take back the homes they’re foreclosing on and start taking care of them. Bill Davis has a second home in the Renaissance condominium in Fort Myers. Lenders have filed foreclosure actions on 20 of the project’s 112 units in the past two years and 11 are pending, according to clerk of court records.”

“As a result, Davis said, fewer of the owners of Renaissance’s 112 units are contributing to the complex’s upkeep and some have fallen into disrepair. ‘We’ve got a few that are pretty bad’ with serious mold problems but nobody’s taking responsibility for them, he said.”

“Property owners are protesting the value of more than 6,700 parcels in Lee County, down about 21 percent from last year’s record. Debra Swain invested in a $48,000 foreclosed San Carlos Park property this year, but the county valued it at $161,540. ‘That is a little far-fetched in my mind,’ said Swain, who thinks a value less than $100,000 is more reasonable, based on her research.”

“Pat Mitchell moved into her home in Harlem Heights in 1986. This year the county appraised the property at $189,000, down about $6,000 from last year. ‘I say it should come down at least $30,000 or $40,000,’ Mitchell said. ‘These taxes are killing me,’ said Mitchell, who will pay about $1,300 this year. Ten years ago she paid $292.”

From Reuters. “At the height of Miami’s condo construction boom, a stretch of South Dixie Highway south of the city was the place to be for a painter or drywaller looking for work or a contractor looking for workers. But those days are long gone. Subcontractors like Alex Soto, a flooring and carpentry specialist who once worked on fancy condo towers in the Brickell banking district and on the Miami River, are scrambling for a few days work each month.”

“Where he once pulled down $2,000 to $3,000 a week, Soto said he is lucky to make $1,500 a month and might get one week of work. ‘The other weeks I am looking for work,’ he said. ‘The situation is desperate.’”

“The market is so choked with hungry workers that a bathroom installation for which Soto once charged $1,500 to $2,000 now brings $300. ‘People are working for nothing. Just to survive.’”

The Sun Sentinel. “Home and condo buyers are scooping up South Florida bargains, priced low to sell by desperate homeowners and banks overwhelmed with foreclosure properties. Agent Sharon Castrillon-Harrington said she was recently showing a Canadian buyer homes in South Florida for $280,000 to $325,000. It was difficult to compete with bank foreclosures in the neighborhood, priced around $130,000. ‘They’re just putting them on the market at the lowest price possible and dumping them,’ she said.”

“Condominium sales also saw a marked increase. Broward sales were up 38 percent in September, to 549 from 397 a year ago. The median price fell 26 percent, from $174,600 to $129,600. Palm Beach County’s existing-condo sales were up 35 percent for the month, to 487 from 360. Median condo prices fell 22 percent from $180,000 to $139,800.”

“Broward County had 38,319 homes and condos on the market in September, down 5 percent from 40,297 last September, according to the Keyes Co. Palm Beach County had 32,334 properties for sale in September, down 12 percent from 36,785 a year ago. ‘The system cannot recover before foreclosure activity works its way through the system,’ said David Dabby, a housing consultant in Coral Gables. ‘It’s just the beginning stage.’”

From Florida Today. “Speculators or ‘flippers’ unable to keep up maintenance fees and mortgages and buyers given loans they couldn’t afford have spiked the number of condominium foreclosures in Brevard County. As a result, associations have to make up the shortfall in monthly assessment fees from the remaining members or forgo some maintenance and repairs.”

“‘One of the misconceptions is that it’s a carefree, maintenance-free living,’ said Gary Poliakoff, an expert whose column appears in FLORIDA TODAY. ‘When other owners are not able to meet their obligations, the ones who are paying have to meet the shortfall.’”

“Under Florida statute, a bank that acquires a property through a foreclosure is liable for regular and periodic assessments that became due during the six months before the mortgage acquisition or 1 percent of the original mortgage, whichever is less. ‘What we’re running into now is the banks are saying we’re not going to pay anything,’ said Bill White, chairman of Community Association Institute’s Florida Legislative Alliance.”

The Orlando Sentinel. “Statewide, more than 21,000 jobs were lost in July from the previous month. In mid-August, Linda Nagle, executive director of the Home Builders Association of Lake County, said it was hard to find any homes being built in Lake County. ‘There is virtually nothing,’ she said.”

“Don Magruder, general manager of Ro-Mac Lumber & Supply Inc. in Leesburg…(added)…that the subprime mortgage meltdown has contributed to the slowdown. ‘The root cause of this is that housing has gotten so unaffordable that people had to go to exotic mortgages,’ Magruder said. ‘So now you have a desperate situation where they can’t pay back the loans.’”

The Pensacola News Journal. “There is growing tension between hotel and motel owners and condominium associations. As consumer dollars shrink, and the number of rooms available for nightly rental grows, condos and hotels are going head-to-head, forcing down nightly rental rates in the process. ‘I’m frustrated because from the hotels’ standpoint, condos are soaking up a lot of our business,’ said Beverly McCay, manager of Holiday Inn Express on Pensacola Beach.”

“At the heart of the matter, says McCay, is the decision by several large beach condos starting to offer owners’ rooms on a nightly basis, rather than weekly or longer. While hotel owners are complaining, condo rental agents are losing business to the fast-growing Web site, Vacation Rentals by Owner. On that site are hundreds of local condos available for rent at highly negotiable prices.”

“‘VRBO is really hurting the rental agencies out there,’ McCay said.”

The Herald Tribune. “Some Realtors have advised would-be home sellers that if you don’t have to sell your residence now, don’t try. Helen Sosso is taking a different approach. The owner of Prudential Palms Realty, a long-time observer of the Sarasota housing market, has picked now to put her highly customized, 6,500- square-foot Bird Key home on the market for $6.3 million. Given the current high inventory of homes and the dismal national economy, why would she do that? What does this woman know that you don’t?”

“Sosso isn’t naïve about residential competition in trying to sell her Mediterranean-style, two-story home, so she’s adhered to a proven strategy that she recommends to others seeking a sale with a satisfying financial result. ‘Have your home independently appraised and then price your house under the appraised value,’ she advised.”

The St Petersburg Times. “After an 8-year run as one of the region’s best-regarded builders, Tripp Trademark Homes is calling it quits. Company founder Doug Tripp, a former Pulte Homes president who branched out on his own in 2000, said he can no longer afford to sell houses at a loss.”

“‘We’re going to walk away from this with our reputation intact,’ said Tripp, who has spent the past month clearing debts with banks and contractors. ‘There isn’t a builder out there that’s making a profit.’”

“Tripp said this is the worst housing slump in his 32 years in the business. Sales tanked in previous real estate recessions, but he’s never seen housing values plunge 30 percent. Blame falls mostly on the investors who created ‘false demand’ in 2004 and 2005, he said.”

“Tripp admits he made a mint in the building boom and points to a group photo on his conference room wall. There, he stands with his sister, wife, brother, nephew and mother-in-law: All were employees. ‘It’s really killing me. I’ve got to throw out my ‘For Sale’ signs,’ he said. ‘What do I need them for?’”




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86 Comments »

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-10-27 09:26:37

“‘They’re just putting them on the market at the lowest price possible and dumping them,’”

This is exactly what I’ve been observing for months. The banks set the temporary floor in prices for a particular period of time (usually 1 or 2 weeks until the next foreclosure) and then another comes online and sets an even lower price. There are single family homes in Palm Beach County being sold for under $100,000. You can buy a house in the acreage for 1/2 the price of what a parcel would have cost in 2005.

It’s impossible for me to think of calling a bottom. This situation is far worse than I ever thought it could have been.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-27 09:56:49

You thought the glut would just resolve itself magically because…?

Comment by SMF
2008-10-27 10:20:24

I once read that Miami suffered from a condo glut in the early 80’s.

It took SIX years to work thru the glut.

Comment by Muir
2008-10-27 10:25:34

Yes, and condos did come close to $0.
True story.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-10-27 10:31:51

Yes, but the duration of this event, and not the depths of the prices, will be what exacts the greatest toll.

 
Comment by bob
2008-10-27 10:40:53

Actually, i am starting to disagree. Please hear me out.

As with the CDSs, CDOs etc, there is urgent need to get to get this ’sorted out’, and get to a stable price. I think because of the depth of this problem and the liquidity problem, that housing $s will head (very) low in ‘09 and ‘10 and we will be there with the (call your local spot - 35 to 65% of peak prices). I think that we are mistakenly thinking that this will be a duration event for price reductions. Once there, i think that they will stay low for a while

Thoughts?

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-10-27 10:53:49

I think there might be a misunderstanding, as we are in agreement. Actually, the damage has already been done. Even if prices bottomed this very moment - unless they quickly return to levels capable of both restarting the housing ATM and bringing back wanton speculation - housing and the hyper-consumers are boned.

 
Comment by SMF
2008-10-27 11:07:22

The internet is a game changer, as it has allowed these cycles to happen much quicker than before.

 
Comment by bob
2008-10-27 17:08:22

Thanks EdgeWaterJohn. With this alias, are you in Seattle by anychance?

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-10-28 07:20:55

RE: (call your local spot - 35 to 65% of peak prices)

Wheee doggies…a call for 65% off market highs!

2 years ago posters here who were prognosticating 50% drops were considered radicals.

 
 
 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-10-27 10:27:31

I didn’t see the lending crisis being as big as it will ultimately be. We’re talking about 1995 prices on many bank owned homes. I don’t think anyone here was calling for prices that low.

Comment by Muir
2008-10-27 10:44:43

I was. (1997)

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Comment by Bad Andy
2008-10-27 10:50:43

That’s close. I was in the 1999-2001 crowd. Prices in the 1990’s were +3-4% yoy.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-27 10:59:07

I always was and continue to be in the 1983 (adjusted for wage-inflation) camp.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-27 14:53:30

“I always was and continue to be in the 1983 (adjusted for wage-inflation) camp.”

I am quite fearful that I will personally be too depressed to make a home purchase when and if things get this bad… but there is a silver lining, as if so, I will never have to lose sleep over being a homedebtor…

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-27 15:56:47

It’s the way it is.

There’s a reason I am picking that date (as some posters well know.)

I know we’re all chatting on a housing blog (hi Ben!) but I just have a feeling that we’re going to be renting for a while.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-10-27 17:04:35

FP……… nevermind.

You’re an interesting guy.

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-10-28 07:28:16

RE: I am quite fearful that I will personally be too depressed to make a home purchase when and if things get this bad…

Pay it no mind.

Homeownership will be nothing but a black tax hole for the coming future.

All the money for those triple digit cop retirements and public employee health care for life promises by rollover mayors and wimpy local governance boards gotta come from somewhere.

An individual subject to an income tax is a moving target. Don’t like the levy-pack your bags and go somewhere else.

Can’t move a house.

The property tax man’s gotcha by the ballz.

 
 
Comment by James
2008-10-27 15:10:29

I called zero for a lot of places. Backwoods anywhere. Places with really large oversupply. Fla has a much worse oversupply problem than LA.

Vegas, Inland Empire California, The valley, Reno area, much of Florida will all have plenty of zero value properties.

Remember way back when you could buy parcels in the Florida outback for a couple thousand. Not .15 Acre lots either. Couple thousand for… well just about what ever you wanted. That is the value for a lot of those areas.

A few brave souls on here called the bubble prices as starting in 95.

I don’t think we get there everywhere but its possible its pretty widespread.

Also I’ve been saying this for a while. This is a big shit sandwich and everybody gets a bite. Some of us its a smaller bite but we are all gonna get one.

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Comment by Muir
2008-10-27 10:42:12

FPSS,
This is one area that I DO know well.
Words fail.
I’ll try examples.
Last week a 2/2 condo came on the market in Brickell (Miami) for 134K (The Vue, to be specific.)
Previous “sale” in 2006—> $725K.
I immediately posted it in a Miami condo blog and said, “Here you go guys, I need comps!”
2005-2007 price per sq/ft $500. Today it starts bumping against $125.
Shoddy construction, HOAs with deficits, lawsuits….
Some of the better high-end condos (like the Everglades in downtown Miami) are truly spectacular, breathtaking views, pools that are a block long. But….
-
I’ve seen dozens of houses that “sold” for 500K+ that are now asking 225K.
Even Coral Gables single housing is starting to go down. Saw a house asking 315K that would easily have gone for 700K-800K only a year and a half ago.
That house sold in a week. There is a market at a certain price.
-
I still see bigger drops.
-
I know Bad Andy got hurt.
There’s the lesson for all of us.
-
I ask everyone the same question: what were the prices pre-bubble in 1997-1998?
-
Since I do remember what those prices were, I’ll wait.
-
That’s why I ask about hyper-inflation. Barring that, prices have another 35%+ drop.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-10-27 11:07:52

I got hurt BAD! My 20% down has evaporated and then some!

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Comment by Muir
2008-10-27 11:21:56

I know, and I was never happy about it.
-
On the other hand, if Jorge Perez goes belly up, I will buy a bottle of clicquot and schedenfreud away.
-
http://www. (+) bizjournals.com/southflorida/stories/2008/10/20/daily44.html

 
Comment by Zhang Fei
2008-10-27 18:19:41

Still, Perez put a happy face on future market prospects, saying that there are a number of quality bargains available. He noted that square footage for condos in large Latin American cities, for instance, are selling at three times the amount of comparable real estate in Miami.

“In the future, I think you’re going to sit down, maybe three years or five years from now, and say ‘I should have bought’,” he said. “Overall, I remain optimistic that those with holding power will be able to reap rewards.”

This is exactly why asset markets (stocks and real estate) the world over are plummeting - they’re even more overvalued than we are.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Chip
2008-10-27 18:08:50

Andy - just returned from three months in no-man’s-land. Like you, I’m impressed with how much the market has collapsed in such a short period of time, given the government’s “intellectual” approach to prevent it. Here in Florida the gap between “wishing” and “getting” prices grows wider, as does the gap between true value and tax-assessor’s value. Today, an old friend and working-days colleague called to welcome me home. He told me that he has lost 30% of his net worth since the beginning of the calendar year. Yet, this is someone to whom I have related my concerns about the bubble and the economy since mid-2005. I draw only two possible conclusions: either everyone thought I was stupid, or people/sheeple have a far greater tendency that I previously thought to remain on the tracks after the oncoming train has flashed its lights and sounded its horn.

Man is it good to be back and have reliable hot water and a soft mattress.

 
Comment by sagesse
2008-10-27 18:54:08

There are houses in PBC that are in poor shape and old, hence ’single family home for 100 K’ tells me nothing.

 
 
Comment by weez
2008-10-27 09:40:19

Taxes seem crazy right now, Even if you buy a house for $80,000 you will be taxed like it is a $200,000 place. Local Gov’t is going to really feel the pain the next few years it seems.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-27 10:22:39

You are far better off buying a house for $50K and being taxed like it’s $200K than buying a house for $200K and being taxed like it’s $200K.

Taxes are a given. Your purchase point is under your control.

 
Comment by Stan_the_man_at_6500_ft
2008-10-27 10:41:25

Why? Doesn’t it get changed to the purchase price, it does on the way up.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-27 11:01:29

It does.

I was just assuming if tax rates “quadruple” to pay for it all. It’s a totally bogus assumption but my point stands.

 
Comment by Juno Moneta
2008-10-29 05:57:04

Florida recently changed the homestead laws…..
The accessors can invoke some new rule, and say your house is worth more than you paid for it….and charge you accordingly…”"IF”" you don’t think it’s fair, just don’t buy a house in Florida…

Comment by swfl jay
2008-10-29 06:41:25

so they can do it to you, but while banks fail they continue to value mortgages that have cashflow at zero because there is no market. Throw the darts and put the board up around it.

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-10-27 10:56:14

In bubble areas, appraised values/tax percentages will remain much higher than in the past, to compensate for overcommittments made by local governments. This means that as housing prices continue to fall hard, property taxes and fees are becoming a noticeably higher percentage of the total cost owning a home than in the past.

Further, the variance between high property tax and low property tax areas will now diverge even more greatly, as many low tax states and locales, not affected as much by the bubble, have remained that way.

Investigate tax burdens carefully if you haven’t already been doing so, before making future RE purchases. They should be a factor in your decision, no longer considered as just the “cost of doing business”.

Comment by DinOR
2008-10-27 12:05:56

iftheshoefits,

Well said, and that’s what made even ‘looking’ at RE during The Boom so frustrating. At least here in OR it was the standard to leave property taxes off the flyers altogether? You’d ask the realtor and they’d give you some blow-off answer like, “Oh I can email those to you, did you want to make an offer?”

I’m totally serious. Let’s see, I’ve “known” you for all of 20 minutes, I’ve looked at the house for 10 and you’re actually asking me if I want to make a 400k purchase without knowing what the taxes might be!? Sure, absolutely. No problem.

 
Comment by Ann gogh
2008-10-27 12:16:11

paying mortgage, bills, and property tax is an ungodly burden.

 
 
Comment by rfw
2008-10-27 12:20:57

Extra Property Tax Proposed For Larger Houses in LA

The Budget and Finance Committee of the Los Angeles City Council is scheduled on Monday to consider a proposal to tax residents who own houses that are larger than 5,000 sq. ft. The so-called "luxury tax" was proposed by Councilman Richard Alarcon as a way to increase revenue for Los Angeles. Under the proposal, houses that are between 5,000 and 5,999 sq. ft. would be taxed $1,000. Every additional 1,000 square feet would be taxed another $1,000. There are 6,336 single-family residences that exceed 5,000 sq. ft. in Los Angeles and 534 houses larger than 10,000 sq. ft. Taxing those residences would generate $15 million a year, affecting mostly homeowners in Bel Air, Beverly Crest, Brentwood, Pacific Palisades, Encino, Tarzana, Hollywood, Sherman Oaks, Studio City, Toluca Lake and the Wilshire area.

Comment by DennisN
2008-10-27 13:20:03

And this would be legal under Prop 13 how?

Comment by HARM
2008-10-27 14:06:10

Screw Prop. 13 and the selfish, entitled Boomers that wrote and passed it (for their benefit). They want their cake (police, firefighters, roads, schools, libraries, community colleges, etc.) but want others –namely Gen-X & Y– to pay for it.

Nice to see a little old-school “socialism” coming back in vogue! We’ve had nearly 30 years of reverse socialism, and see where that got us. Soak the b*stards!

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Comment by Ann gogh
2008-10-27 13:22:16

Rfw, that is a real find! It kind of sounds socialistic to me, but most movie stars have most of the huge homes.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-10-27 13:25:34

rfw,

Well if Realtors (TM) remain true to form ( they’ll neglect to mention this pending proposal to potential buyers as well? ) I think in securities law that would be considered a “omission of known facts”. ( Knowing a CEO or company was facing pending litigation, but conveniently “forgetting” to mention it to a client? )

Then again this is RealtyWorld so ignorance is assumed. It just fried my wife and I that ANY realtor would attempt to egg you into making an offer without knowing what your damn prop. taxes were going to be? I get it! I’ll just go ahead and put a competing offer in and find out what the taxes are if I win the bidding war!

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-10-27 14:26:01

RE: The Budget and Finance Committee of the Los Angeles City Council is scheduled on Monday to consider a proposal to tax residents who own houses that are larger than 5,000 sq. ft. The so-called “luxury tax” was proposed by Councilman Richard Alarcon as a way to increase revenue for Los Angeles

Excess square footage tax!

Called right here on this blog months ago!

Way ahead of the curve eom.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-27 16:30:19

Who called it? I’m impressed.

I should’ve seen that one coming but can’t get everything right.

So builders will now start understating “sq. footage” (wink, wink, nod, nod)?

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Comment by ws
2008-10-27 16:48:19

Any excess property tax should be based on how ugly the granite kitchen counters are. if the counters are butt ugly, the city should take over the house through eminent domain, claiming they are a blight on the neighborhood.

 
 
 
Comment by aqius
2008-10-27 09:45:42

“‘We’re going to walk away from this with our reputation intact,’ said Tripp, who has spent the past month clearing debts with banks and contractors . . ”

Diogenes has found his one honest man !

Comment by DinOR
2008-10-27 11:11:30

Right, and he’s honest about getting rid of his ‘For Sale’ signs as well! Doug Tripp also doesn’t attempt to deflect the blame on Bernanke, The Decider, WMD’s, The Chicago Cubs or whoever he’s feeling emotional about that day? He places the blame squarely with the specuvestors creating that “phantom demand” Ben has referred to over the years.

Here in OR we’re hearing builders say “we had to choose between stiffing our lenders and stiffing our subs”. Well, since when did builders need a severe downturn to stiff subs?

 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-10-27 10:26:47

“The owner of Prudential Palms Realty, a long-time observer of the Sarasota housing market, has picked now to put her highly customized, 6,500- square-foot Bird Key home on the market for $6.3 million. Given the current high inventory of homes and the dismal national economy, why would she do that? What does this woman know that you don’t?”
___________________________________

Those are some of the best rhetorical questions ever. And I cannot imagine living in 6,500 square feet regardless of how much Sarasota high society might be impressed. Talk about fatally grandiose.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-10-27 10:40:43

Plus, the only thing she really does know is how to spin her desperation to a cub reporter who can’t see through the smokescreen.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-10-27 11:11:16

6500 squre foot home even on Bird Key should bring in $200 per square foot TOPS. That seems like $1.3 million to me, or about $5 million over-priced.

Comment by Doghouse Riley
2008-10-27 12:27:26

Just for entertainment value, I zillowed her house. 2.8m, house next door (with more square footage) just a tad over 3. Hey bartender! I’ll have one of whatever Helen’s appraiser is having!

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Comment by DC in LBV
2008-10-27 11:18:25

And I am sure the “truth to the story” is that she is losing so much money with her realty business that she can’t afford the taxes on that monstrosity. A realtor putting all of their money in property is like investing all of your 401k in stocks. Always dangerous.

Comment by Key Lime Toast
2008-10-27 14:50:24

She’s not downsizing, she’s de-leveraging.

 
 
Comment by Chip
2008-10-27 18:14:20

You can buy a top-floor penthouse, 6,400 s.f. (entire top floor) on the Intracoastal Waterway directly east of Orlando for $1.6M (asking), down from a peak of $2.8M, as I recall.

Guess there are not enough snobs in the area, else the wishing price might be closer to Sarasota’s.

 
 
Comment by ACH
2008-10-27 10:27:36

“Condominium sales also saw a marked increase.”

Dead kitty has hit. See dead kitty bounce!
Bounce, Kitty!, Bounce!

Roidy
P.S. It’s too big, and it’s gonna hurt.

 
Comment by potential buyer
2008-10-27 10:34:32

My ex boss, CFO of a company, told me 9 months ago that the Europeans would help bail out the housing market because they will pick up cheap housing in Florida and CA.

I laughed at him and wondered how he got to be considered good at finance.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-10-27 10:39:58

There are a lot of people out there who thought that this recession/depression would be localized. There were a lot of people who bought tech stocks in 1999 too.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-27 14:51:06

“I laughed at him and wondered how he got to be considered good at finance.”

I am guessing he received a piece of paper from a reputable university to prove it.

 
Comment by NJRenter
2008-10-27 15:35:12

Is that why he’s now your former boss? If so I’m sorry. His loss really.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-10-27 11:19:41

“Blame falls mostly on the investors who created ‘false demand’ in 2004 and 2005, he said.”

My first thought was “Bravo, he gets it.”

My second thought was, “Was there a ‘unit of demand’ that this builder didn’t fulfill, investor or otherwise? Eff HIM.”

Comment by DinOR
2008-10-27 11:49:57

sleepless,

Agreed, but as I noted above, when compared to the flurry of lame excuses and weak associations we’ve been fed, this is fairly straight-up.

I suppose a lot of that hinges on how we chose to define “investors”? Myself, I tend to include those that had new homes built -before- their old home sold as well. ( Playing a split-hand ) Of course all of the “pre-mature snowbirds” and flippers apply. I also feel those that ‘were’ of an age to retire and move to FL full-time ( but hung on to their home in NY etc.) contributed to the problem as well. Maybe he just should have said “duplicate purchases”?

Comment by SMF
2008-10-27 11:58:15

Investors are looking for long-term return. This way, the recoup the money they put into their investment.

This is like me purchasing stock in a large, established company and getting a dividend.

Speculators are looking for short-term return, usually purchasing an asset expecting the asset to rise in price and therefore create a profit.

This is akin to the dot.com bubble era. Since these companies were not making a dime, the expected ROI was from a higher stock price.

Comment by DinOR
2008-10-27 12:09:57

SMF,

Very true, it’s all in their “intent”. Since most RE purchases of the last 8 or 10 years have been predicated on a “quick turn” or flip, I think we have our answer.

Accidental landlords didn’t even surface until -after- the peak as an ill-advised response to a market collapse. Again, it wasn’t their original intent.

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Comment by SMF
2008-10-27 12:58:18

There are still a new crop of speculators being born.

These are those who are buying those cheap homes on the intent of selling them for a hefty profit once the market ‘comes back’.

I even read a story where a woman bought a $100K home intent on selling it when it reaches $300K…yeah…good luck with that.

The current crop of speculators is still very significant out there, and their time of reckoning will be here…soon.

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-10-27 13:18:04

A lot of specuvestors still come into my office. The difference is now they use cash, whether it be from their retirement or other savings. These folks will have a much harder lesson than the ones who used the bank’s money.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-10-27 13:34:40

SMF,

Not to beat it to death but it’s a large part of the reason I’m -still- of the opinion that we still need to amend the cap gains exemption.

I’m afraid what happened is that realtors, in order to play to the speculators neglected to address cap gains at ALL! Short term, long term, whatever. Doesn’t matter, RE investors don’t pay taxes anyway. Look at how frequently properties on “flippersintrouble.com” have changed hands? Sometimes, just within months from the previous sale.

Now do you mean to stand there and tell me these people even bothered to enter that on their tax returns? Oh I’ll bet a whole bunch that made nice profits early and simply pocketed the money and went on to their next flip. Have you EVER heard “tax considerations” brought up on Flip That/This House? There’s not even a disclosure when you’re watching the show.

*Flipping homes ( before the 1st freaking mort. payment is due ) is considerd a s-h-o-r-t term cap. gain! Consult your tax professional!

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-10-27 13:35:44

“I even read a story where a woman bought a $100K home intent on selling it when it reaches $300K…yeah…good luck with that.”

Which begs the (probably rhetorical) questions: What percentage of TODAY’s “demand” is false and how much further will prices fall once this demand is purged from the market?

 
Comment by DarthRealtor
2008-10-28 12:05:08

SMF refers to “the second wave of stupid money”

I know people here in Orlando that are now in buy mode. I agree with 65% of peak price or perhaps $0.

Still no bottom, still no time to buy.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by salinasron
2008-10-27 12:08:44

“With about 15,000 houses already on the market, a surge in supply could drive down prices and make it less attractive for even solvent home owners to continue paying their mortgages, he said. ”

So solvent home owners, once they drop below a certain value, will dump because they don’t want a falling asset even though they’d still be solvent. That’s one of the pluses of the stock market, cash and carry baby, life jumps in and bitch slaps you across the face and there is no sob story to tell a willing reporter waiting in the wings.

Yes, I’d like to go to LV and pull my bet off the table when it went against me.

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-10-27 12:34:44

We all remember the hype put out by the realtor associations on how Florida property values will always keep rising. The following are the top 10 jobs in the Tampa bay area. It’s no wonder these builders are going out of business!

Tampa Bay area’s top 10 jobs
Occupation 2007 number Average pay/hour
1. Retail salespersons 43,130 $13.14
2. Customer service reps 36,370 $14.69
3. Cashiers 33,050 $8.65
4. Waiters and waitresses 30,990 $9.83
5. General office clerks 29,860 $12.19
6. Food prep, serving workers 27,040 $8.21
7. Laborers, freight/stock movers 23,770 $11.21
8. Stock clerks, order fillers 22,880 $10.23
9. Registered nurses 22,030 $29.39
10. Secretaries

(not legal/medical/exec) 21,320 $13.19
Total metro area jobs 1.27-million $18.61
Sources: Occupational Employment Statistics, Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation. Includes Pinellas, Pasco, Hillsborough and Hernando counties.)

Between August and September — one month’s time —the slumping Tampa Bay economy lost an astonishing 6,600 jobs, according to state data released last week. That’s 45 percent of all jobs lost statewide in that period. In the past year, the Tampa Bay area has lost 22,700, or 19 percent of the 119,700 jobs lost across the state.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-10-27 13:16:26

Tampa’s problems are the reason the rest of us still sleep at night.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-27 13:40:53

“‘They have as big of a mortgage crisis as we do,’ Barker said. ‘That makes it very difficult to look across the ocean to buy a home.’”

Can someone who understands this please fill me in on the reasons to possibly want to look for a home across the ocean?

Comment by climber
2008-10-27 13:50:04

I have two brits working in my office (out of 40 people total). As far as I know both bought houses here and at least one of them kept his UK house as a rental.

They’re getting a triple whammy. House prices in England going down. House prices in US going down. Dollar salary going down. At least one of them is in an option ARM that’s floating already.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-27 13:51:55

The Brits with whom I have discussed housing in recent years have convinced me that there are people on the planet with even deeper convictions about real estate than even Southern Californians have.

Comment by palmetto
2008-10-27 14:41:58

One thing you have to understand about Brits is that they have a deeper emotional attachment to “proppuhty” than any other group I’ve ever met. I hung out with a bunch of Brits in the Bahamas for a while. One was a banker while the others were always looking for some sort of opportunity. They’d sit over beers for hours on end discussing “proppuhty”. A few centuries ago, the idea of owning real estate was an impossible dream for most Brits, a privilege open only to the landed gentry and a few lucky sods from the merchant class. It is an idea that is deeply ingrained in terms of security and status. I’m sorry if that offends any Brits reading this, it is not meant to be offensive, but it is the conclusion I have drawn from hanging out with the fellows in the Bahamas and from my historical reading. The drive of Brits for property is why we have a US in the first place.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-27 14:49:38

This is a blog — not a place to read if you don’t like spades to be called spades.

 
Comment by palmetto
2008-10-27 15:36:32

Whoa, Professor Bear, I was agreeing with you.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-27 16:38:06

The only people who compete with the Brits for “security” are the Chinese and the Indians.

It is so deeply ingrained in them that nothing absolutely nothing will shake their convictions that “all times are a good time to buy”.

 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2008-10-27 17:16:31

Try living alongside families that have handed down wealth, multiplying and concentrating it for hundreds of years. Oh wait, never mind ;)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-27 13:50:09

P.S. Just remember, all real estate is local ;-)

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-27 17:25:50

Alas, but the credit markets are global. :-D

 
 
 
Comment by Ann
2008-10-27 13:46:56

I’m a little pissed today..

found out that a guy we know who has about 5 mill in real estate..has a million dollar home in the area..just got a LOAN MODIFICATION on a “investment” house…that was about to go into foreclosure..

Now why was an investor bailed out? These banks have no idea what they are even doing…

Comment by Mo Money
2008-10-27 15:32:58

Unless you know the terms of loan modification you can’t really call it a bailout, quite possibly the new terms merely push the default date back by a couple of years in the hope the market recovers and the house can be sold at a wash sale.

 
Comment by palmetto
2008-10-27 15:38:38

Report it to your Senator or Representative. Not sure if it will do any good, but now is the time, with the election, to make yourself heard.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2008-10-27 14:56:29

The latest RE trend in the Tampa Bay area right now are Super Bowl rentals. Check out this ad, sheesh, 2 Gs a night, I mean, really. Plus, Riverview is NOT 20 minutes from the stadium. More like 40 minute, realistically with traffic. 30 minutes if no traffic. I’ve seen Super Bowl rental signs on homes a good hour away from the stadium.

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/apa/892074989.html

Comment by Dave of the North
2008-10-27 18:30:09

Why are they featuring the big screen TVs? Is that because the renter will be too drunk to get to the game and will have to watch it on TV?

Hey, I’ll rent my family room for only $ 1000 and I’ll even supply popcorn and beer. It’s a bit of a drive to Tampa Bay - only 2853 km, so you might want to watch it on my big screen HDTV. :-)

Comment by Mugsy
2008-10-27 19:06:02

Anybody remember the super bowl “super dumps” in Phoenix/Glendale that got got posted here by HBB’ers that were going for a grand or two a night? Oy vey were they horrible! CL was full of them.

 
 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2008-10-27 20:12:39

Yeah, there was a bunch of this hype in metro Phoenix for the 2008 Super Bowl. While I am sure that some houses were successfully rented, the greedheads with sky-high asking prices did not get anywhere. Sound familiar?

A nice but modest all-suite hotel near me was asking $700-plus/night for that weekend for rooms that normally are $90-$130/night. It is about 20 minutes from the Cardinals stadium. It ended up being more than half vacant until it slashed rates at the last minute, but was still fairly vacant.

I doubt that any reasonable person would provide a f’d borrower with the kind of deposits that most of these tycoons were demanding.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-10-27 16:57:41

“A lot of good Realtors got caught up in this,’ Parlante said.”

Sweet Justice!!!! The very pukes who managed to create a closed loop market are now paying the price.

 
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