October 29, 2008

Unprecedented Times In The Housing Industry

The Jackson Hole Daily reports from Wyoming. “Jackson Hole’s real-estate market has buckled under the weight of the economic downturn and new lending rules, a recent report says. The biggest evidence of the slowdown is in the single-family-home market. The number of sales is down 49 percent for the year, and dollar volume is down 44 percent. The number of homes under contract is down 46 percent when compared with this time last year, while the median asking price is down 23 percent to $1.88 million.”

“Of 281 single-family homes currently for sale, 56 are being offered for less than $1 million. ‘That’s a 500 percent increase over the third quarter of 2007, when only nine homes were listed for under $1 million,’ wrote David Viehman.”

“The least expensive home is a 1,360-square-foot house built in 1981 on a 0.21-acre lot in Rafter J for $595,000.”

“‘Sellers are not motivated to go below their 2007 values, so they in turn can’t or won’t buy their replacement property,’ Viehman wrote. Viehman wrote that sellers should determine what the last comparable sale price was and list for 5 percent to 10 percent less. ‘Savvy buyers are out there, but they are looking for bargains,’ he wrote. ‘Consider this: If you can mentally accept losing some equity when selling, you will probably make it up on your next purchase.’”

The Great Falls Tribune from Montana. “Months before the phrase credit crunch was coined, some mortgage products began disappearing. Things such as no down-payment-loans were pulled by lenders, shutting the window for some would be homeowners. That is pushing people who may have otherwise bought homes into the rental market.”

“Kim Meyers of Macek Property Management, which has about 120 residential rentals, said the demand for rental housing in Great Falls began increasing about a year ago. ‘We have seen more people who need a rental because they have property in another state that hasn’t sold yet,’ Meyers said.”

“NeighborWorks, which works to assist moderate income individuals and families become homeowners, has seen an upswing in demand for homeownership classes, said Carrie Koppy, the agency’s grant writer. ‘I think we are seeing people who in the past may have applied for no-interest loans coming to us now that those are no longer available,’ she said.”

The Idaho Statesman. “Christopher Thornberg, founding partner of Beacon Economics in Los Angeles, spoke at a real estate and development conference sponsored by New West. David Eacret, a real estate economist from Sandpoint, who predicted real estate prices will bottom out in late 2009…said ‘urban refugees’ will again flow to Idaho and other Rocky Mountain states. ‘People do want to live here,’ he said.”

“But high-end real estate in ‘amenity’ communities like Bonner and Valley counties is vastly oversupplied. In one master-planned community in Bonner County, Eacret said, not a single house has sold in 2008 in the $800,000 to $1.4 million range, and the builder is out of business.”

“Only after stability returns to California and Nevada will that market rebound, he said: ‘If you can’t sell your house in California or Las Vegas, you can’t buy a second home in our area.’”

“Thornberg says Idaho will struggle with foreclosure woes for two to three years. Currently, 1.6 percent of Idaho mortgages are 60 to 90 days delinquent. ‘Housing markets don’t bounce, they splat,’ Thornberg said. ‘And so when it hits bottom, it stays there for a couple of years. And we probably won’t see any substantial increase in prices until 2011. Remember, we were in an economy that was on an unsustainable path,’ said Thornberg.”

“Economic and financial woes are crimping DBSI, a Boise real-estate investment company that is delaying payments to some investors and says its income from some rental properties is no longer enough to cover debt payments. DBSI’s real estate business is shrinking, and it can’t get credit to bridge the gap.”

“‘We have seen a dramatic decrease in new business due to a steep decline in the number of people selling real estate and looking for like-kind exchanges or other real estate investments,’ said President Doug Swenson. ‘We are also seeing decreased occupancy and increasing tenant defaults because of the economic slowdown and lack of consumer confidence.’”

“Kastera Homes, a home builder in the Treasure Valley, is a DBSI subsidiary. Kastera laid off an undisclosed number of people in June. At that time, a DBSI marketing executive said Kastera wouldn’t be affected by DBSI’s restructuring.”

“While the company is updating its blog, it is not answering calls directly, and word on DBSI chat rooms is that regular payments to some investors have been suspended. Some are suspicious of the company’s behavior. ‘This is a lot of hard-earned money, and I’m really frightened,’ Tim Brophy, of Palm Springs, Calif., told the Idaho Statesman. ‘This is a lot of my retirement.’”

The Oregonian. “Home prices in Portland, once considered untouched by the nation’s housing downturn, posted another record decline in August in the Standard & Poor’s Case-Shiller Index published Tuesday. The index showed Portland-area sale prices fell 7.6 percent in August compared with August 2007. That’s the biggest annual drop since record keeping began in 1987. Seattle also posted a record decline of 8.8 percent.”

“‘The problem right now is the economy is going dead and it’s going dead everywhere,’ said Patrick Newport, U.S. economist at a Massachusetts-based economics firm. ‘Going forward, I think everywhere things are going to get worse, including Portland and Seattle. It’s a lot harder to get a loan now than it was two or three months ago, and it’s getting harder.’”

“On average, the Case-Shiller index shows that Portland-area home prices are still up about 72 percent since January 2000. That said, people who bought a home after March 2006, on average, own a home that’s worth less today than when they bought it. The question left to answer in Portland is: How far do prices have to fall before they reach a point that’s sustainable?”

‘Tom Potiowsky, Oregon’s state economist, doesn’t expect Portland to fall as far as those Sun Belt cities. But he does think the numbers could get worse, given the region’s still bloated inventory of unsold homes. ‘It’s possible we could hit 10 percent or 12 percent,’ Potiowsky said. ‘I’d be surprised if it declined any more than that.’”

The Statesman Journal from Oregon. “Hampton Affiliates recently announced that it will lay off 50 to 60 employees at its Willamina Lumber Company mill about the end of October. The mill currently employs about 335 people. ‘As I have explained in the past, the lumber market is very poor and has gotten even weaker in the last 45 days,’ noted company CEO Steve Zika said in an e-mail. ‘Green Doug Fir (two by fours) is now selling for approximately $150 per thousand board feet versus $400 per thousand board feet in 2005.’”

“‘Willamina still figures prominently in Hampton’s long-term plans but with the market, and especially the California market this poor, we had no other viable options,’ Zika said. Housing-industry woes have necessitated the action, which may affect other Hampton operations. The company operates mills in Oregon, Washington and British Columbia.”

“‘These are unprecedented times in the housing industry,’ he said.”

From KVAL News in Oregon. “Lane County foreclosure notices have climbed 67 percent since last year (for the 3rd quarter), but that’s better than the national average of 71 percent. It’s much better than the Oregon average of 146 percent.”

“Eugene realtor Marie Due has been crunching the numbers. While the national statistics still look very dim, she says the mortgage mess is less messy in Lane County. ‘But we do see that the numbers of not only foreclosure filings but also houses going to auction, are really coming on a level,’ she said.”

“Russ Vann’s housing headaches began in 2006 when he had an accident and totaled his business truck. Just before that, he had refinanced the house. ‘It came out that they didn’t put my taxes and insurance in the impound, the escrow impounds,’ explains Vann. ”

“He adds his house payments soared from $1,300 a month, to $2,400. He defaulted on his payments. ‘It’s put a real damper on our outlook on life,’ Vann said.”

“Vann and his wife want to stay in Eugene, but it all depends on finding someplace to rent with bad credit. ‘We might even pitch a tent by the river,’ he said. ‘I don’t know. Don’t know where we’re going to be,’ he said.”

From Seattle PI in Washington. “Seattle-area house values continued their slide in August, falling 0.7 percent from July and 8.8 percent from August 2007, according to a national index. The Seattle area had the biggest annual declines, 9.7 percent, in the lowest value tier, which S&P defines as under $308,893. The high tier, over $445,285, was down 8.4 percent, while the middle tier declined by 8.9 percent.”

“Patrick Newport, U.S. economist for IHS Global Insight, noted in a statement that the latest S&P data did not yet reflect the recent turmoil in the financial market. ‘So as bad as the latest Case-Shiller numbers appear to be, they are bound to get much worse,’ he said.”

The Ballard News Tribune from Washington. “Ballard resident Gwyn Emery decided to sell her house on 28th Avenue Northwest in April after she got married. Half a year later, her house is still on the market. ‘When I bought my house a couple of years ago it was rare to see one on the market for more than a few weeks,’ Emery said. ‘Now the average in Seattle is six months.’”

“Paul Langer, who has been trying to sell his Ballard house for the past month, said he believes a lack of available loans is definitely affecting his ability to sell. ‘People can’t get the loans we got four years ago when we bought the house,’ Langer said.”

“David Arnesen, a professor specializing in real estate law at Seattle University, said in reality it’s a buyers market right now for people who can afford to put money down, but those people are nervous at the moment. ‘Buyers are being very cautious,’ he said. ‘Most banks today don’t have people lining up at the door to take out loans like they used to.’”

“Pat Redmond, president of Viking Bank, said the media is partially to blame for the insecurity of buyers. People are being constantly bombarded with projections of an economic crisis that they cannot escape, he said. ‘My concern is that we can’t keep confidence as high as it needs to be for success,’ he said.”




RSS feed | Trackback URI

104 Comments »

Comment by EmperorNorton_II
2008-10-29 14:56:34

Debt Cat Splat

‘Housing markets don’t bounce, they splat,’

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 16:33:50

‘And so when it hits bottom, it stays there for a couple of years. And we probably won’t see any substantial increase in prices until 2011. Remember, we were in an economy that was on an unsustainable path,’

This is why I see no reason anyone should be in a hurry to buy at a point when home prices are falling at an unprecedented rate. We should all thank the GSEs and the Congressmen who changed their operating procedures to help them stimulate a massive glut of vacant houses that will continue driving prices towards affordable price levels for the foreseeable future until they go splat and stay flat on the ground for a couple of years.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 16:40:57

Isn’t “business as usual” what led to their stunning collapse?

Back on track
Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac fulfilling housing mission, regulator says
By Steve Kerch, MarketWatch
Last update: 6:00 p.m. EDT Oct. 29, 2008

“They are out playing their role, fulfilling their missions,” said James Lockhart, director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, which oversees Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac in their government conservatorship. “They are buying assets and guaranteeing mortgage-backed securities. And they have plenty of room on their balance sheets now to buy assets that will support those missions.”

“It really is business as usual. We are encouraging them now to be more creative,” Lockhart told a ballroom crowd at the Urban Land institute fall meeting here. “In this marketplace we really need Fannie and Freddie to provide liquidity and support.”

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 16:54:52

You forgot the thank the knife-catchers.

Those men and women are the finest of their generation because they are definitely taking “one for the team”.

 
Comment by Muir
2008-10-29 17:15:39

Hyper-inflation an impossibility?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 17:34:44

Yes.

You know, I see a lot of posters talking about “hyper-inflation” here.

If it were truly a hyper-inflationary scenario:

[1] loans would be impossible to get (lenders know the drill even with bailouts,)
[2] people would be desperately trying to get rid of cash not hoarding it, and
[3] you’d need to nail it just right that you were able to get an absurd loan in spades, and then the govt. printing presses come in right in time to bail you out.

See that happening?

I don’t see any of it.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-10-29 18:07:57

I talked about hyper-inflation with a co-worker today. I told him that it was the only way that his condo could go up in price. I said, “your condo will be worth $500,000 but your property taxes will be $30,000.” You still have to feed the beast during hyper-inflation and the green, leafy stuff may be hard to come by.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 18:13:20

Now, my opinions are valuable to you?

Scary. For me.

 
Comment by Muir
2008-10-29 18:17:04

No, I do not see it either.
What would be the precursors?
Dollar deflating, stocks going steeply higher and printing presses going wild?

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 18:22:53

No, I do not see it either.

In that case, in the language of the current youth of the nation, “Blow me!”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 20:59:08

I don’t think a house is a very good hyperinflation hedge. One might need to quickly leave the country under such conditions, and the last thing you would like to have to do at such a time is to deal with selling a house before leaving.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 21:10:34

A house is one of the worst hyperinflation hedges there is.

The best one is debt.

One of the standard “tricks” during hyperinflation was people used to make reservations and “dress up” and go to the fanciest restaurant in town. When the time came to pay up, they had forgotten their wallet, and offered to pay it back “next week”.

Fancy places could never make people “pay upfront” and always got tossed under the proverbial bus. “Normal business behavior” and “hyperinflation” don’t mix too well.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 21:26:15

‘One of the standard “tricks” during hyperinflation was people used to make reservations and “dress up” and go to the fanciest restaurant in town.’

Have to try that one someday…

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 21:39:52

You better hope that you never need to “try” that some day…

It’s one of those rare places that I’d rather know the theory than the practice.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2008-10-29 21:31:47

Hyper-inflation seems possible, it’s just not what’s happening now. The “not happening now” was driven home to me when I paid $2.20/gal in VA last Friday. Next week I expect to be back in Maine living on $2.40/lb lobster. Things there are so bad for the locals that a Manhattan friend of mine recently arrived at his Maine house to find that the caretaker of 25 years had moved 3 people into the house, had made a mess and had drunk all the vodka. They thought John had left for the season. Naturally he had them arrested.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-10-30 09:21:11

Those in charge still DON’T GET IT!!

The only way will see “increase in price” in 2011 is if housing falls to below the proper ratio of 2 to 3x median income, we DON’T have a huge recession/depression, AND incomes start increasing in 2011. That’s it - any other “solution” that results in housing prices magically floating upwards again must involve massive government meddling that leads to hyperinflation… and which point we’ll all be trying to afford bread and meat vs. buying overpriced houses that nobody will be able to afford.

 
 
 
Comment by llking
2008-10-29 14:59:17

We made an low ball offer to a new home by Burnstead last weekend. If they don’t accept then we will walk and wait for the price to drop further. The new community has 73 lots/homes and only sold one since the grand opening in march of this year. Btw, their asking price now is about $100K lower than the original one.

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-10-29 15:20:54

I made 2 cash offers this morning that represent about 60% off peak. One is being considered.

Oh, and here’s a little something. To all you worthless maggot FB’s who are choosing to walk and leave your pets to starve, if I catch one of you heartless bastards you’re gonna pray it’s only the JT treatment I’ll be meting out. Do the right thing and at least drop ‘em off at your local animal shelter. I’m running into this a lot and it really pisses me off. Dropped another cat off at the local adoption center yesteday. People suck!

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 15:46:32

Way to go, yep, people suck. These kind of people deserve to be locked in an empty house with no food/water for a few days…or longer.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-10-29 17:53:44

They deserve to get The Clockwork Orange treatment, being forced to watch a never ending loop of speeches by Sarah Palin. And they won’t have anybody there to moisten their tear ducts. Eat that motherfarkers.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 20:34:36

You misspelled marthafarker.

 
 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 15:51:29

Me and my opera glasses will miss you around here now that you are gonna be “one of them” rather than “one of us”.

SIGH. All good things must come to an end.

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-10-29 15:58:10

Someone once asked me if I hunt. “Nope” I answered, “I don’t kill animals…….people are a different story though.” He just chuckled uncomfortably and backed away.

So keep you opera glasses and remember to wear a slicker, ’cause this is gonna get messy……and fun!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-10-29 16:03:49

Oh, I’ve been making offers for about a year now and have backed out of those that came even close to being accepted. You really can’t get a full feel for what’s going on until you get in and swim with these morons. Kind of like Ben going to all those auctions. I will eventually one day pull the trigger, but not until I get my fill of jerking these guys around.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 17:37:31

Talk dirty to me, baby, say some more dirty things like that!

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-10-29 17:40:39

You really don’t have anything better to do???

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 17:49:27

Vermontergal,

You’re out of line.

One of the best ways to gather economic data is fishing for it in just about any market. He is doing exactly what an intelligent market-maker would do.

Buffett does the same. He just doesn’t show up on national TV to tell you that he does that but he’s done that every single morning for the last 40 years.

You are WAAAAY out of line with that comment. I suggest you try and understand what is being attempted.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-10-29 17:56:56

I saw that earlier today you didn’t understand my “never buying again” attitude. You mentioned that a house could always be rented out. Are you smoking frogs? Renting out a house would surely take away freedom of mobility. Nothing like getting a call about a plugged up toilet in New York after you have moved to Northern California or Denver.

You might want to monitor your own responses. Yours seemed rather silly and poorly thought out to me. Eat that you putty-tat.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 18:00:33

I’ll live.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-10-29 18:09:21

I figured you would. But “no soup for you”. Go drink out of the toilet.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 18:24:40

I think I’ll just drink a single-malt if it’s all the same by you.

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-10-29 18:26:31

“I will eventually one day pull the trigger, but not until I get my fill of jerking these guys around.”

You are WAAAAY out of line with that comment. I suggest you try and understand what is being attempted.

LOL - I think I get what’s being attempted, thus my comment. :)

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 18:31:44

LOL - I think I get what’s being attempted, thus my comment.

We have no more trolls. We’re picking on each other.

This is sad. It’s a harbinger of THE END.

SIGH.

 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-10-29 19:44:30

“You really don’t have anything better to do???”

No, which is why I will now spend my time watching for your posts so I can mess with your head. If you lived any closer I’d ask you to come over and scrub my sack and give my helmut a good sheen.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 20:39:41

‘I saw that earlier today you didn’t understand my “never buying again” attitude.’

Folks like you (and me) should be sure to only buy homes when the prices have truly bottomed out. Lock in the price at that point and you have complete freedom, as you can always sell in one week’s time when and if you decide to move on to another existential realm. All you have to do is slightly underprice the comps, and you still can sell for a capital gain.

(I speak from experience — did it twice already in my short life.)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 20:56:25

“We’re picking on each other.

This is sad. It’s a harbinger of THE END.”

Oh no, it’s cyclical. You should have been around when Get Stucco battled it out with the likes of Hedge Fund Analyst, BeaConst, LV_Landlord, Antonio Villaraigosa (yes, the mayor of LA used to be a troll here!) and Gekko. Those were heady days in HBB history. All these trolls were mocked severely within inches of their lives, and would dare not show their faces here again.

Without trolls to mock, we naturally turn on each other.

In times of peace, the warlike man attacks himself.

–Friedrich Nietzsche–

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-10-29 21:55:15

“never buy again”

Now that I have become a financer of flips, I might sometime have to become a buyer at an auction where I have also been the lender. One or two of the three actual houses (as distinct from trailers) that I have a note on are houses I wouldn’t want to live in. I think the tricks in my situation would be, (1) take title sooner rather than later — not so hard when the borrower thinks you are a person of good will; (2) treat all of the mortgage payments that were actually made, as payments of principal without interest; and (3) offer owner-financing to a new buyer as soon as the house title is mine.

 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2008-10-29 16:35:42

I think I got one of those abandoned cats. I picked up Dukie at the shelter back in May. He was supposed to be 2.5 years old but was turned in as a stray. He obviously wasn’t ferral but he was then scrawney and mistrusting. But he did indicate that he really wanted to go home with me. A few months later and he now is bulked up again and very happy with his new daddy. I’m guessing he was abandoned outside by a FB.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-10-29 18:00:07

I adopted our 2 beasts back in 2000 when their owner was moving to Korea to teach English. I felt good to be giving her friends a good home. They have had a great life. Anybody hurting animals should be castrated. Michael Vick should have been publicly beaten for what he did.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 18:12:56

I had 7 puddytats, two were abandoned by homeowners, the others were just abandoned. Found homes for two, down to five, but they’re my little buds, would never part with them.

 
 
Comment by MidnightSunshine
2008-10-30 09:12:19

I’m guessing he was abandoned outside by a FB.

Absolutely disgusting. No excuse when there are so many shelters and rescue programs–just a completely self-centered and amoral “human.”

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by flat
2008-10-29 18:48:47

why do only anglos and Asians walk their dogs- drop the dime on pet neglect-

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-10-29 20:04:03

Has anyone trademarked the term, ‘Joshua Treed’ ? Is it only used in connection with Ca real estate since they (the JTs) are indigenous to the Mojave desert?

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2008-10-29 15:44:26

“The new community has 73 lots/homes and only sold one since the grand opening in march of this year.”

Do you really want to live there at any price? I’m just asking. If there’s a HOA, I can’t imagine a worse nightmare than being one of the few buyers in a ghost community. Are you gonna have to be responsible for maintenance fees? If not, what if the developer just abandons the community? I don’t know how any of this works in a new HOA, so I’m looking for information.

Comment by denquiry
2008-10-29 15:50:32

Right on bro….I fear that they will make up the difference in the HOA fees in the future. Talk about socialism…that’s what HOA’s are.

 
Comment by llking
2008-10-29 15:52:33

The builder is responsible for the vacant properties’ HOA until it’s handed over to an official HOA selected by the owners.

I wouldn’t want to live there if there’s a chance for the builder to abandon the project. But this is one of the largest well known builder here. That doesn’t mean that they will stop building if there’s no demand. Whoever bought there will probably be quite lonely for a while but there are existing communities surrounding it.

If you’re from Seattle/puget sound area, look up Highland Parks by Burnstead.

Comment by Rick
2008-10-29 17:04:17

I thought I would check on the Burnstead plat by my house that opened about 2 months ago, 108 lots and not a single sale lol its called CAVALERO RIDGE.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by llking
2008-10-30 09:40:09

Rick,

So, you live up near Lake Stevens. I see Cavalero still has zero sale. Ridiculous price for that area.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by stanislaw
2008-10-29 14:59:27

“On average, the Case-Shiller index shows that Portland-area home prices are still up about 72 percent since January 2000

I think we have to get back to 2000 levels and then some. How about mid nineties pricing?

Comment by DinOR
2008-10-29 16:13:32

stanislaw,

Yes, and then some. Up until the mid-90’s the avg. couple w/ avg. income could buy an avg. home. Not a dream home mind you, avg. It was then up to the couple to make it a dream home.

Right now things are dead. Everybody happy now?

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-10-29 15:12:47

‘We have seen a dramatic decrease in new business due to a steep decline in the number of people selling real estate and looking for like-kind exchanges or other real estate investments,’ said President Doug Swenson.

A Ponzi scheme by any other name…

 
Comment by SMF
2008-10-29 15:26:09

“Only after stability returns to California and Nevada will that market rebound, he said: ‘If you can’t sell your house in California or Las Vegas, you can’t buy a second home in our area.’”

THEY WEREN’T SELLING HOUSES IN CALI TO BUY THERE.

It is a term we call ‘HELOC’, moron.

These people used their equity to buy houses everywhere, while they stayed in California.

There is a good reason why a lot of these states were low population and low growth. Only the bubble made it seems as if people wanted to move there. That’s why you had people with three primary residences in Iowa.

Guess what? When the California market recovers, you find yourself with far more homes than imagined, and will wonder ‘what happened to all the people?’.

Learn this phrase:

Phantom Demand

It explains everything.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-10-29 15:34:04

‘If you can’t sell your house in California or Las Vegas, you can’t buy a second home in our area.’”

Or in MY area, either! HoorayyyyyyYYYY!

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-10-29 17:47:30

Vermont has the same problem “I wanna 2nd house problem”.

2nd house people: save your money for something real and rent your flippin vacation home. Landscapes are far less appealing when they are littered with houses vacant for 80% of the year. (Sorry to the guy who just bought the cottage…)

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-10-29 18:01:59

You can’t make mad money renting a 2nd home. You have to be an “owner”. Are you dumb?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-10-29 18:30:12

So true! ;) - LOL - I’ll need to work on owning that first home, though, before I can have the joy of worrying about plumbing not in my immediate vicinity.

 
 
 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-10-29 15:36:25

“…and will wonder ‘what happened to all the people?’”

Not me. I pray for that moment more and more everyday.

 
Comment by cvca
2008-10-29 15:48:35

They complain when Californians move in and drive up prices, and they complain when Calfornians dont come and shower them with money.

Yo sup dude, lov’ ta give ya ma cash, but i blew it all on a pile of dirt. When someone horks my spot, I’ll come look at yours. Oh Hey, I know a guy that knowz a guy that can hook you up with sum Ayrabs. They alwayz have doh and are looking for places to store their wives. You guys got that too, right? Cool.

‘Til then, peace.

Comment by DinOR
2008-10-29 16:23:04

cvca,

LOL! Yeah that about sums it up Yo! I think SMF makes a bold connection by saying these were people that thought they could “shop” their way into wealth.

They never had to “sell” anything? Anyone that’s ever sold a house will tell you it’s right up there with getting married or having major medical issues where stress is concerned. So… let’s dispense with all that unpleasantness and get on w/ the fun part… Shopping!

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-10-29 22:00:45

oops, Ayrabs got no oil munny no more

 
 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-10-29 15:35:44

‘The Seattle area had the biggest annual declines, 9.7 percent, in the lowest value tier, which S&P defines as under $308,893. The high tier, over $445,285, was down 8.4 percent, while the middle tier declined by 8.9 percent.”

What?! You mean…you mean…it’s NOT different here?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 15:48:04

Let me show you how to do it:

BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 15:57:17

Puddytat, you’re in NY, right?

I’m asking cause I thought I heard that echoing off the cliffs way out here in the outback…must’ve been something else…wait, here it comes again…sure sounds like you, or at least how I imagine you…very faint…wait, here it comes again… :)

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 16:01:11

ROTFLMAO

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 15:53:27

Oly, I was at my old house last night, once again marveling at HGTV, never seen anything like it. I had to come back and watch it again just to verify it was real, I didn’t hallucinate it.

Anyway, this nice young Microsoftish couple was in Seattle, getting ready to have a second baby, and their 3,000 sq ft mansion just wasn’t gonna be big enough, so they were getting the lowdown on what their house was worth so they could move up.

The suspense…as the scummy used house seller did the books, then they found out it was worth some astronomical amount more than they paid (just a few years ago), and they were about ready to cry with happiness.

Man, parents who let their kids watch this stuff should be put in jail…

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-10-29 17:43:09

Love parents who don’t think there’s enough room for a baby in a 3000 sq ft house. Baby = 2 sq feet

Actual required paraphanlia fits in a dresser (and on top of it.) and the space of a bed. Anything else is just junk, especially in the first 3 years.

Comment by Next Shoe To Drop
2008-10-29 17:59:00

Don’t forget the 500sqft of space needed to dissipate the noise created by the little creature. Successful couples can’t be bothered with that, donchya know.

“Anything else is just junk, especially in the first 3 years.” — gal after my own heart. Will you be my mommy? :-D

rob

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 18:18:04

One of the other segments was about a guy in Cincinnatti who was nearing 30 and still living at home, they were trying to find him his own home. He just happened to be a collector, and I mean in a big way, tons of junk. It was actually pretty funny, he was a comedian, kind of a lovable lummox kinda guy. His mom was pretty cool about the whole thing. He got a nice place for a mere 117k.

Isn’t this the town where they were selling houses for $1???

HGTV is very surreal…reminds me of when I tried the weed in my college days (only once, and I didn’t inhale)…

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-10-30 09:43:43

It is a well-known fact that every American “family” (can you really call them a family when they pop a few kids to keep up appearances and then have the kids grandparents raise them because they can’t be bothered with the effort?) needs a minimum of 2000 square feet + 1000 square feet per child.

Unreal the levels of greed and entitlement in this nation today!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-10-29 15:42:54

How can things “bottom” out next year in Idaho and the rest of the northern Rockies? We haven’t even seen much of a downturn yet! Must be like a permanently high plateau.

I think we are seeing people who in the past may have applied for no-interest loans coming to us now that those are no longer available,’ she said

But, but, I was told that Montana was a conservative lending state and we didn’t have risky loans here.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 15:54:03

RE markets may be local but credit markets are global, daaaaaaaah-ling!

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 16:21:17

Ditto for W. Colorado, Tango. Will it ever crash?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 16:22:49

Everybody mambo, how low can you go?

Oh wait, you said tango not mambo!

Comment by aladinsane
2008-10-29 17:19:08
(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 18:14:36

Nice.

How about a nice tango to even it all out?

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 18:59:06

Ain’t got no uniform. :)

 
 
 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-10-29 16:39:21

Now here’s a scary thought. Housing proposals to reward the irresponsible are ramping up, just as we hit the peak. Will our markets just never go bust, thanks to massive subsidies/spending/socialism?

Propping up something this big seems impossible, but never underestimate pandering politicians (many of them “conservative”) who can blow through $700b and not even blink.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2008-10-29 16:46:58

The crazy prices around Jackson Hole are an anomaly in the northern Rockies. The closest thing in Idaho is Sun Valley/Ketchum but that’s more old money rather than new money.

For those non-Idahoans, Valley County is a long valley astride route 55 which has the resort town of McCall at the north. The bankrupt and in bad shape new Tamarack resort community is in Valley County. Bonner County is in the extreme north of Idaho’s panhandle around Lake Pend Oreille. The nearest largish town is Coeur d’Alene and the nearest city is Spokane.

Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-10-29 17:01:10

Anomaly? You sho’ ’bout that? Just off the top of my head, I’d say places like Big Sky, Whitefish, and Cody/North Fork qualify as just a little “crazy.”

Jackson Hole has always been in a class by itself, to be sure, but I’d say there’s been enough craziness to go around elsewhere too. Just check out my Montana housing video.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 19:02:37

I’d love to be sitting in Jackson someday when the buffalo decide to stampede down main.

Really enjoyed seeing those big fellas, they’re scary. Sure, I’ve seen them before, but behind fences (except in Cody one time, huge herd).

There is a wild herd not too far from here, in the Henry Mtns (Utah), but I’ve never seen them.

But I like Jackson, would love it there in the summer. Like Montana, too. Maybe this summer…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2008-10-29 16:16:50

‘Savvy buyers are out there, but they are looking for bargains,’ he wrote. ‘Consider this: If you can mentally accept losing some equity when selling, you will probably make it up on your next purchase.’”

I do hope that these brain dead simpering realturds are lined up and shot at some point, completely useless in society. They sound like fools, over and over and over again.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-10-29 18:04:35

I like your anger!

 
 
Comment by redmondjp
2008-10-29 16:31:19

“The least expensive home is a 1,360-square-foot house built in 1981 on a 0.21-acre lot in Rafter J for $595,000.”

Even where I live, a few miles from Microsquish, you can buy this same house for less. Right now. And we’ve still got a long way to fail, uh I mean fall.

Man, the effects of the Kool-aid sure take a long time to wear off!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 16:34:19

$600K for 1360 sq. ft. on a 0.2 acre lot?

Pull the other one, kid, pull the other one!

In what language would you like me to say 80% drop?

 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-10-29 16:45:51

Funny, they didn’t quote Ryan Olsen this time. Here’s what he said about Jackson Hole a few years back: We are immune to the up and down treads that plague many real estate markets,’ he says. ‘Our real estate market is essentially quite ‘bullet proof!

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-10-29 18:20:49

He got that from the Aspen guys, not original. They probably played golf together at some point.

Wait, they got it from Telluride, who got it from Vail…who got it from Park City…ad nauseum.

 
 
Comment by Neil
2008-10-30 01:35:27

Man, the effects of the Kool-aid sure take a long time to wear off!

Its going to be quite the hang over.

I cannot wait to see Christmas sales.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 16:48:46

Reverse Robin Hood aid to help out homeowners who cannot quite afford their mortgages…Only a Republican administration could propose this plan without being labeled SOCIALISTIC.

Government Said to Be Discussing Plan to Aid Homeowners
By VIKAS BAJAJ and ERIC DASH
Published: October 29, 2008

Senior Bush administration officials are completing a plan that could help up to three million homeowners struggling to pay their mortgages to stay in their homes, three people briefed on the proposal said Wednesday.

The initiative could be the most sweeping government effort directed at mortgage borrowers since the financial crisis began last year. Under the plan, the government would agree to shoulder half of the losses on home loans if mortgage companies agreed to lower borrowers’ monthly payments for at least five years, according to the people briefed on the plan who asked not to be named because details were still being negotiated.

Comment by combotechie
2008-10-29 19:01:15

” details were still being negotiated.”

Negotiate on … keep spewing out words … keep hope alive.

As long as FBs believe there is hope they’ll keep up with their house payments. When hope vanishes they’ll walk and leave the taxpayers stuck with the tab.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 20:47:56

Given the glut of foreclosures and other vacant homes, those who fall for this “save our homes” bailout measure will probably still get a chance to catch a falling knife if they don’t get out shortly after their principle gets written down (at taxpayer expense).

BTW, has anyone yet called out the Republicans for proposing and levying a $700 bn tax (or was it $850 bn)? Because I thought taxes were not part of the Republican platform. Does the fact that nobody has yet talked about how we will pay for this mean it is not a tax?

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-10-29 19:21:19

I see one word “IF” which equals will not work.

 
Comment by climber
2008-10-30 09:03:19

Who says it won’t be labeled Socialistic? Bush is not a Republican!

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-10-29 16:52:11

“Kastera Homes, a home builder in the Treasure Valley, is a DBSI subsidiary. Kastera laid off an undisclosed number of people in June. At that time, a DBSI marketing executive said Kastera wouldn’t be affected by DBSI’s restructuring.”

“While the company is updating its blog, it is not answering calls directly, and word on DBSI chat rooms is that regular payments to some investors have been suspended. Some are suspicious of the company’s behavior. ‘This is a lot of hard-earned money, and I’m really frightened,’ Tim Brophy, of Palm Springs, Calif., told the Idaho Statesman. ‘This is a lot of my retirement.’”
———————————–

do NOT seek the Treasure!

 
Comment by SOLD IN 04
2008-10-29 17:03:56

WENT TO AN AUCTION THIS MORNING IN THE EASTERN SAN FERNANDO VALLEY SHERMAN OAKS,$100,000 MINIMUM BID,ABOUT 100 PEOPLE THERE HOME SOLD FOR 575K,JUST YOUR TYPICAL 2000 SQ FT RANCH HOME………THIS AREA HAS SEEN A 25% DROP FROM THE PEAK BUT STARTER HOME STILL ARE ABOVE 500K……ITS BEEN VERY STICKY HERE….AND THINGS ARE STILL SELLING

Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-10-29 17:38:41

—blink—

You have your high beams on

Comment by Sagesse
2008-10-29 18:57:44

lol

 
 
 
Comment by Ultimate Warrior
2008-10-29 17:40:48

Just received this email from Pulte:

Price Increase Saturday, November 1, 2008!

Dear Xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your continued interest in Pulte Homes of Orlando, offering quality homes from the mid $100s up to the $500s.

We wanted you to be the first to know about an upcoming price increase across all of our Central and Southeast Florida communities. Beginning Saturday, November 1st, we will be increasing prices up to $5,000.

Now is your chance to purchase a brand-new home at an incredible value. Hurry in today before the price increase. We look forward to seeing you!

Sincerely,

Pulte Homes of Orlando

My first impulse was to send them an email telling them how ridiculous a scare tactic this is. Then I was thinking of telling them that they should be investigated for it. Any other ideas?

Comment by Michael Fink
2008-10-29 19:19:23

I’d just laugh to myself, long and hard. As far as I know, it’s not illegal to price your products at stupid levels, so I’m not sure anyone would investigate them for it.

You may want to send an e-mail back to them that says “I will be waiting until November 1st, 2009 before I look at your homes again, at which time, I anticipate they will be down another 30% from where they are today, and you will likely be out of business”. :)

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2008-10-29 17:44:29

“‘Sellers are not motivated to go below their 2007 values, so they in turn can’t or won’t buy their replacement property,’ Viehman wrote. ”

I am not motivated to go above 1997 prices. I guess we will wait until the bank shows up…

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-10-29 18:12:05

Life’s tough for them, innit?

I think they haven’t quite figured out who’s paying the alligator each month.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-10-29 19:25:48

“David Arnesen, a professor specializing in real estate law at Seattle University, said in reality it’s a buyers market right now for people who can afford to put money down, but those people are nervous at the moment. ‘Buyers are being very cautious,’ he said. ‘Most banks today don’t have people lining up at the door to take out loans like they used to.’”

Besides our community of HBBers how many people can afford or has the credit score to line up for loans?

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-10-29 20:24:30

If you buy with a 20 pct downpayment and home prices fell by 25 pct over the next year (their recent rate of decline in San Diego), how much of your downpayment would you lose in one year?

ANSWER:

100*(25/20) = 125 pct (i.e., if you sold your home after one year, you would have to bring 1/4 of your downpayment to the closing table in addition to the sale proceeds in order to pay off your loan).

NOT A PRUDENT INVESTMENT!

Comment by CrookCounty
2008-10-30 03:10:48

Ahhh, the old Bush I SNL skit: “Wouldn’t be prudent … at this juncture.”

 
 
 
Comment by abdul khalidi
2008-10-30 04:55:46

realwhores need to have laws imposed on them, like the ones that force brokers to state ‘past performance is no guarantee of future results.’ they need to be banned from saying things like ‘real estate is your best investment’ and ‘real estate only goes up.’ ideally, most of them should be dragged out and shot.

 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post