November 1, 2008

A Heck Of A Deal In Florida

The St Petersburg Times reports from Florida. “Tampa Electric lost more customers than it added in the third quarter, an unprecedented reversal that slashed the utility’s profits and promises to delay power plant building. ‘We’ve never seen this since I’ve been working at Tampa Electric,’ said Gordon Gillette, who has been with the company for 26 years. Vacant and foreclosed homes turned out the lights, and fewer new customers replaced them, Gillette said.”

“‘A lot that got built, as we know now, turned out to be vacant properties, but they had electric meters,’ Gillette said. ‘We counted those properties as they were getting built as new customers. But guess what: Nobody moved in.’”

The Tampa Tribune. “Tampa Bay area builders are constructing fewer homes and struggling to increase demand among buyers. Builders started construction on 1,155 single-family homes in the third quarter, a decline of 30.8 percent from the same quarter last year, according to Houston-based housing consultant Metrostudy.”

“Tony Polito of Metrostudy’s Tampa division, attributed the low buyer demand to Florida’s job losses. Single-family housing inventory - homes under construction, finished vacant homes and model homes - totaled 5,778 units at the end of the third quarter. It would take nine months to sell all those homes at the current pace, Metrostudy said.”

“There were 959 lots delivered to the Tampa market during the third quarter, compared with 3,411 lots during the third quarter of 2007. That brings the total vacant lot inventory to 31,451 units. It would take 72.9 months to sell all those lots, an increase of 31.5 months compared with last year, experts say.”

The Herald Tribune. “Swamped by millions of dollars in sour loans, Freedom Bank of Bradenton was shut down Friday by banking regulators. Freedom is the second Bradenton bank to fail this year, falling three months after First Priority Bank. It is the nation’s 17th bank failure of 2008.”

“‘In my 27 years in Florida banking, I don’t think I can recall two banks failing in the same year in the same town,’ said Sarasota banking consultant Tramm Hudson.”

“Hudson said a number of Florida banks got too caught up in rapid growth and aggressive lending. ‘When the economy tanked, it caught up with them,’ he said.”

“Bradenton is not the only city to have two bank failures this year. Two banks in Alpharetta, Ga., have been closed by regulators.”

“Foreclosures in Sarasota County spiked to a record 1,437 filings in September, a 39 percent spike from the previous month, data released by RealtyTrac Inc. showed. Meanwhile, Florida’s foreclosure rate rose 9 percent in September when compared with August, leap-frogging Arizona and California to the No. 2 spot. There were foreclosure proceedings started on 47,956 Florida properties, an increase of 44 percent.”

“The federal government is mulling a sweeping plan that could help 3 million homeowners avoid foreclosures. There are, of course, many unanswered questions at this point: How would a home owner qualify? Would homeowners be rewarded for going late on payments by this system? What would happen after five years?”

“Ritch Workman, the president of the Florida Association of Mortgage Brokers, had some of the same questions. ‘Do I go late to take advantage of this?’ Workman asked. ‘Are we actually encouraging people to go late to take advantage of this?’”

The Irish Times. “The contest between Barack Obama and John McCain in the state is too close to call, but Democrats believe they could be on the verge of flipping Florida into their column as part of a dramatic political realignment across the country. After years of extraordinary population growth when more than 1,000 people moved to Florida every day and property prices soared, the state’s housing market has collapsed and unemployment is at its highest level for 14 years. Gleaming new office buildings in Orlando stand almost empty and blank storefront windows advertise vacant retail space.”

“Obama has held massive rallies throughout Florida this week. Despite the cheerful mood in Kissimmee, Florida is going through hard times and the signs of economic hardship are everywhere. It was just after 8pm but Trastevere, a little Italian restaurant in downtown Orlando, was already deserted and Jeanie Crawford would soon be heading home with her meagre haul of tips. Crawford was riding high until a few months ago, working for one of America’s biggest mortgage lenders until the bottom fell out of Florida’s housing market.”

“‘I used to work for Countrywide, now I’m here waiting tables,’ she says. ‘I’m 33. I stopped waiting tables when I was 23, but now it’s all I can get.’”

The Palm Beach Post. “Republican presidential nominee John McCain’s $300 billion proposal to buy and restructure the troubled loans of individual homeowners would help as many as 1.7 million Floridians, his campaign said today. With Florida essential to McCain’s presidential hopes, the McCain campaign had U.S. Sen. Mel Martinez and former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Jack Kemp tout McCain’s plan in a conference call with Florida reporters.”

“‘Until we do something about the price of homes, until the home ownership crisis abates, we will not see the recovery in our overall economy,’ said Martinez.”

“Obama’s campaign slammed McCain’s proposal. ‘John McCain wants the government to massively overpay for mortgages in a plan that would guarantee taxpayers lose money, and put them at risk of losing even more if home values don’t recover. The biggest beneficiaries of this plan will be the same financial institutions that got us into this mess, some of whom even committed fraud,’ said Jason Furman, the Obama campaign’s economic policy director.”

“No need to put a fright mask on these numbers: Nearly one in three Florida mortgage borrowers owed more on their loans than their homes were worth in the third quarter. Fully 1.2 million of Florida’s 4.2 million mortgages - 29.2 percent - were upside down, said First American CoreLogic.”

“‘There’s a large percentage of very vulnerable homeowners,’ said Sam Khater, senior economist at First American CoreLogic. ‘If they lose their job, if they run into some kind of health problem, or divorce, they might just walk away.’”

“Palm Beach County’s jobless rate has doubled in the past two years, while St. Lucie County unemployment has hit double digits. ‘The results show what we’ve been talking about anecdotally,’ said Jack McCabe, a real estate analyst in Deerfield Beach. ‘A lot of people are upside down, and a lot of people took out highly volatile mortgages.’”

Time Magazine. “Today in the greater Miami area, there are 110,000 single-family houses, condos and townhouses for sale. Some 55,000 new foreclosures were filed in the first nine months of this year, and an additional 19,000 properties were taken back by lenders.”

“Miami developers threw up some 23,000 units beginning in 2003, many of them bought by speculators who thought they could flip them for a quick profit. ‘Our best guestimate — and we’ve talked to lenders and developers — is that you will not see a residential construction crane in the sky in downtown Miami for a generation,’ Peter Zalewski, a real estate broker, told TIME. ‘Well, at least seven years,’ he said before modifying his forecast yet again. ‘Let’s go with a decade,’ he finally concluded.”

“Zalewski is looking at purchasing a 1,800-sq.-ft condo with floor-to-ceiling windows overlooking the waterfront in a place just north of Miami. That unit sold to a speculator for $940,000 in 2006. The bank is asking $389,000 but will probably settle for $300,000, he says.”

From Shorelines.com. “As the city increases its efforts to crack down on substandard rental housing in the Mayport Road corridor, Assistant City Manager David Thompson is trying to implement a new system. ‘Now, when someone calls the city, staff typically views that as a civil matter. There is no process in place for the city of Atlantic Beach to do something about it,’ said Thompson. ‘We’re going to start out by identifying the targeted areas. The Mayport corridor is the worst.’”

“That’s the area the city has focused on cleaning up this year because of substandard rental units and associated crime due in part to those housing conditions. But the biggest problem, Thompson said, is that many property owners have ‘accidentally’ become property managers. Many bought property with the intention of ‘flipping’ the property, or selling it , shortly after the purchase. But the slumping housing market has prevented sale of those properties, he said.”

“‘Some of these people don’t know how to manage property. They don’t know how to do an eviction,’ Thompson said.”

The Orlando Sentinel. “Metro Orlando’s apartment market tightened a tiny bit this past spring and summer, as the vacancy rate declined slightly to 10.4 percent by September, according to a recent local survey. There are signs the trend may not last because the region’s population growth is stalled and job creation is all but flat.”

“Another 3,699 units were under construction. Charles Wayne President Jim Lewis said that, during the past six months, another 11 condominium-conversion projects — ‘most with low occupancies’ — had returned more than 1,300 unsold condo units to the area’s rental pool.”

“The tightest apartment market on record for the region was in March 2006, when the vacancy rate sank to 3.6 percent. At the time, thousands of rental units were being converted to condominiums and put up for sale as complex owners sought to cash in on the soon-to-end boom in housing sales. Many of those condo projects have since returned to the apartment market as sales collapsed.”

The Herald Register. “In July, Land Resources Companies of Orlando, Fla., parent company of Roaring River, a proposed 4,300-acre, master-planned community in Fayette County next to the New River Gorge National River, closed its Fayetteville office and laid off all of that office’s employees. Friday, the company announced it and 34 of its affiliates and subsidiaries filed voluntary petitions under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code.”

“‘I am presuming this does affect the Roaring River project and its lot owners,’ Fayette County Commissioner Matt Wender said.”

“‘We deeply regret the impact the Chapter 11 filing will have on property owners, vendors and employees,’ Land Resource CEO J. Robert Ward said.”

“Approximately 80 lots have been sold as part of the housing development. In July, a groundbreaking ceremony for water and sewer services was scheduled, then canceled. ‘I’m very concerned about the lot owners who purchased lots, but can’t build on them,’ Wender said. ‘Without that infrastructure, the lot owners can’t obtain building permits to build on their lots. Now, it appears that they can’t get their money back, either.’”

The News Press. “While there are no statistics, agents say baby boomers accounted for a large portion of the 746 existing single-family homes sold in September with the help of a Realtor. Those numbers are up from the 338 sold in January when declining home values started to give the market a kickstart, according to statistics collected by the Florida Association of Realtors.”

“September’s median sales price for a single-family home was $141,400, less than half the all-time high of $322,300 set in December 2005. Agent George Patton in Cape Coral (said), ‘We’re selling more houses now than we did in ’05,’ many of them to arriving boomers. ‘The average sales price is $90,000,’ Patton said.”

“Boomers likely will be buying here in substantial numbers at least until there’s a balance between supply and demand so prices can stabilize, said Michael Timmerman, a Naples-based senior associate with Fishkind & Associates, but ‘that may take awhile.’”

“Meanwhile, the boomers’ interest is a welcome stimulus to a market with about 14,000 unsold houses.”

“Timmerman said the uncertain future on Wall Street may be persuading some people to buy homes here.They say, ‘I can either keep my money in the stock market and watch it go down or I can buy real estate at the bottom and hopefully it’ll come back up,’ Timmerman said.”

The Keysnet. “Conceding the city had fallen behind, Key West Planning Director Amy Kimball-Murley on Thursday sat down with city commissioners in a special workshop to discuss a revised building permit allocation system. It’s in response to a February court ruling that said the city’s previous rate-of-growth ordinance, known as ROGO, had expired and could no longer be used to allocate permits.”

“As for ROGO itself, commissioners on Thursday expressed concern that permit allocations already issued have become commodities traded on the open market. Commissioner Clayton Lopez said that he thinks some people are hoarding allocations. But citing the economic and real estate downturn, Mayor Morgan McPherson said people sitting on ROGO allocations is not a big concern, joking, ‘If anybody wants to write a check for one today…. You’d get a heck of a deal. They are a commodity. They will be in the future.’”




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62 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-01 09:31:29

‘The McCain campaign had U.S. Sen. Mel Martinez and former Housing and Urban Development Secretary Jack Kemp tout McCain’s plan in a conference call with Florida reporters. ‘Until we do something about the price of homes, until the home ownership crisis abates, we will not see the recovery in our overall economy,’ said Martinez.’

This is exactly what the NAR economist says, and it is a load of you know what. Housing prices are going to find equilibrium and there isn’t anything that can stop it. Not only that, I suggest that the economy can’t heal until the housing bubble is purged from the system.

I’m not advocating any candidate, but I think I know what the source of this McCain flip-flop is. I’m pretty sure that I read the other day that the commie Mark Zandi is one of his advisers.

Comment by tresho
2008-11-01 10:04:10

‘Until we do something about the price of homes, until the home ownership crisis abates, we will not see the recovery in our overall economy,’ That seems to be the consensus of all the candidates at all levels. Have any politicians favored “purging” the housing bubble?

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-01 10:17:01

I seem to recall McCain coming close to this position a few months ago. I really don’t understand what happens when politics meets economics-this stuff makes no sense. The RTC didn’t buy loans. They just took them, and liquidated. There were mortgages modified, but the government didn’t do it. The RTC would sometimes sell a block of mortgages to people like the Rockefellers, who then would work out deals with the FBs for a profit. I have never read of how widespread it was, but these people had already defaulted. It wasn’t a lot different than the people in the house buying it again at a foreclosure auction.

Comment by tresho
2008-11-01 10:41:10

what happens when politics meets economics is that huge numbers of variously misinformed, uninformed, passive, manipulative and/or piratical elements of the society get together & work out a plan.

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Comment by Muir
2008-11-01 11:43:17

Google calculator—->
300 000 000 000 / 1 700 000 = 176 470.588



“Republican presidential nominee John McCain’s $300 billion proposal to buy and restructure the troubled loans of individual homeowners would help as many as 1.7 million Floridians”


Claim BS finding rights!


If ALL of the $300 Billion were used in JUST in FL it would STILL NOT cover ALL those underwater in just this one state.

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Comment by ACH
2008-11-01 17:49:11

Ben,
I’m afraid you have a misspelling in your post.

“…but I think I know what the source of this McCain flip-flop is.”

“Cow” is not spelled “flip”.

Just trying’ to help.

Roidy

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-01 19:53:38

“I really don’t understand what happens when politics meets economics-this stuff makes no sense.”

I have a theory on that: Know-nothing politicians’ economic positions often bear an uncanny resemblance to those of their anointed advisers. McCain has never struck me as much of an economics expert ever since that remark a few years ago about how he would consider propping up a dead Greenspan in his Chair at the Fed.

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Comment by DarthRealtor
2008-11-03 08:57:22

As a Republican and a McCain voter, I can only say that McCain doesn’t have any answers and will likley make it worse. Obama will make it much worse. Again, the lessor of two evils. Which sandwhich would you like, horses**t or bulls**t. Actually in picking the lessor of those two decisions it would be kind of a draw.

Our governement has become so corrupt, on both sides of the isle, they don’t care about the average citizen, just about getting elected.

The 700 Bil bailout is a drop in the bucket and more for theatrics and PR than substance.

As lately as 2004 Barney Frank and friends were saying that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mack were sound. They’re either stupid or working us. Wall Street definitly worked us with it’s fancy “securities”.

All great civilizations and or nations come to an end. I just hope this isn’t the case with us.

I saw something funny the other day when a black politician said that just when the US is crashing and burning, they electa Black man President so they can blame Blacks.

I would think African Americans are the least to blame, as a group for our problems.

 
 
 
Comment by cereal
2008-11-01 12:03:15

“‘Until we do something about the price of homes, until the home ownership crisis abates, we will not see the recovery in our overall economy,’ said Martinez.”

Truer words were never spoken.

Let’s get ‘em back to affordable levels and get on with our lives.

 
 
Comment by SFC
2008-11-01 10:32:45

I guess Marinez is doing his job as a Florida Senator, as he knows that Florida’s percentage and -$ value of upside-down houses is many times higher than Florida’s percentage of US population. It’s a way to get other states taxpayers to send Florida money. He’s a Cuban Robert Byrd.

 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-01 11:37:30

“commie Mark Zandi”
I don not know enough about this guy, even after googling him.
How is he a commie?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-01 14:55:07

Sure you weren’t “goggling”? This guy is such an a–hole that it should be obvious in about 10 seconds. The stuff he has been quoted saying would make a pussy-cat blush.

Comment by Earl The Vagabond
2008-11-02 07:16:44

Beer Googles?

;)

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-01 14:27:21

Joe Socialist

 
Comment by Chip
2008-11-01 20:13:57

“Housing prices are going to find equilibrium and there isn’t anything that can stop it. Not only that, I suggest that the economy can’t heal until the housing bubble is purged from the system.”

This is what I keep telling my wife. I hate it that the pols are trying so hard to slow down the process instead of getting it over with so the economy can heal faster. How many people are going to be in a house five years from now where the loan is restructured today? Hardly any, I think. They lied about their income and underestimated their expenses, particularly here in Florida where taxes and insurance are so high. A reduction of a few hundred a month in payments is not going to keep them in those houses long-term - it just drags out their agony.

We used to buy houses at 2.5x gross income and never had much money left over. These people are not going to get restructured into that effective ratio.

Anyway, we are seeing a lot of price collapsing going on in the area and I’ve seen some closing prices that are back to 2003 levels, headed down farther. Giddyup.

 
Comment by Will
2008-11-02 04:27:18

“the commie Mark Zandi ”

Is this the Mark Zandi who runs Moodys Economics? He may not always make a lot of sense, but doesn’t seem like much of a communist either.

 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-11-02 06:53:26

people for for free sht
“if everyone votes they’ll vote circus an bread”

 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-11-01 09:47:59

“Tampa Electric lost more customers than it added in the third quarter…”

Last one out please be sure to turn off the lights.

 
Comment by mikey
2008-11-01 09:58:45

“Boomers likely will be buying here in substantial numbers at least until there’s a balance between supply and demand so prices can stabilize, said Michael Timmerman, a Naples-based senior associate with Fishkind & Associates, but ‘that may take awhile.’”

Yeah…right ! Uncle Ben is going to throw thousands of Gung Ho house starved Boomers out of his black choppers with rucksacks full of freshly printed $100 bills on the next available FULL MOON :).

Comment by Neil
2008-11-01 11:15:05

The 2nd drop they’ll remember parachutes for those Gung Ho Boomers. ;)

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-11-01 12:02:04

As long as there are “no statistics,” I’m going to treat those anecdotes as nothing more than a renewed campaign to convince Boomers to purchase a second home in Ft. Myers. It looks like Fishkind has delegated to a subordinate the work of being an intellectual backstop to real estate development propaganda.

A cynic would say that pays the bills. But if there was any justice, Fishkind’s firm would be relocated to the middle of one of those enormous, visible-from-space clear-cut tracts in southwest Florida that awaits McMansions that will never come.

Cue the seal.

 
Comment by Chip
2008-11-01 20:16:44

Where is this Boomer money coming from? From the house up North that they cannot sell? From their recently-swelled stock portfolio or “201(k)”? When people are buying lunch on credit cards, we are in deep kimchee and the savings of boomers have been affected just as much as anyone else’s, I would bet.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-01 10:07:27

“Republican presidential nominee John McCain’s $300 billion proposal to buy and restructure the troubled loans of individual homeowners would help as many as 1.7 million Floridians, his campaign said today.’

Wow! McIdiot will say ANYTHING to get some votes, won’t he? Anyyyyyyyyything. What’s next on the list to eagerly promise voters? A cute kitty for everyone? Packets of candy?
Probably, if it wasn’t so close to being McOver.

Comment by tresho
2008-11-01 10:15:54

Not a dime’s worth of difference among any of the candidates on the need to prop up the housing bubble, just subtle variations on what they think needs to be done.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-01 10:18:48

‘John McCain wants the government to massively overpay for mortgages in a plan that would guarantee taxpayers lose money, and put them at risk of losing even more if home values don’t recover. The biggest beneficiaries of this plan will be the same financial institutions that got us into this mess, some of whom even committed fraud,’ said Jason Furman, the Obama campaign’s economic policy director.’

I’d say that’s a least a dimes worth of difference, not that campaign talk means much.

Comment by tresho
2008-11-01 10:36:58

And the other side’s plan is — what? Still waiting to learn of a single politician willing to kill the zombie.

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Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-01 10:43:23

Well, zombies in myth are already dead. Market forces will collapse the housing bubble. BTW, did they ever get that water to New Orleans?

 
Comment by tresho
2008-11-01 11:17:57

BTW, did they ever get that water to New Orleans? Last the media reported, they were still having trouble keeping water out of New Orleans. People are better off living above sea level, IMHO.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-01 17:44:22

Ben, that one quote alone by Barack Obama is what would make me vote for him. The Republican Party deserves to die because it wants to follow the socialist tradition of the Democrat Party (New Deal, “war on poverty”) - I was upset when Reagan gushed about FDR in order to gain favor from fat Tip O’Neil and his likings.

But I wrote in Ron Paul. My conscience is clear.

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Comment by Juno Moneta
2008-11-01 14:19:22

I think there will be more than a dimes worth of difference, whom ever the ‘next’ President happens to be….Seems like Goldman -Sachs, forecasted a $2 “”"TRILLION”" dollar deficit for 2009….That would probably equal a stack of dimes from here to the moon….

Comment by mybleachhouse
2008-11-02 01:29:44

According to wiki a dime has a thickness of 1.36 mm and the moon is on average 380000 kilometers from earth……someone please throw me a “bail out” and do the math. Does McCain even know how many 0’s are in a billion?

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Comment by Houston Observer
2008-11-02 08:37:29

3.8 m^8 / 1.36 m^(-3) is about 2.8 * 10^11, or 280 billion dimes, or $2.8 trillion. Pretty close!

 
Comment by Houston Observer
2008-11-02 08:38:50

Argh, of course that’s 2.8 billion cents, or $28 million. I should stop while I’m ahead. (hangs head in shame)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by SoldierRenter
2008-11-01 10:08:45

Had a conversation in a “Rooms to Go” furniture store (yep, empty) here in Brandon, FL yesterday. Needless to say, we are still in denial. Government interference is actually slowing the acceptance that the real estate bubble was stupid. The salesman wanted to be bailed out (or as he put it helped) and wanted real estate to start appreciating again. I was having none of it and told him that if the government interferred in a private contract between two private parties, than interest rates would go through the roof because of the unknown future risk to the lending party. The concept of unintended/negative consequences caused by a perceived ‘good’ seems to pass over many heads. Prices are starting to drop here in Tampa but the meme that the govt will prop up the prices is strong with the REIC.

Comment by combotechie
2008-11-01 10:27:08

The more there is talk of bailouts the more incentive FBs have of staying in their houses and keeping up with the payments. Such incentives needs to be encouraged, IMO.
The fewer houses that go back to the bank the better it is for all of us.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-01 10:46:58

I would say the smaller the overbuilding, the better for all of us. But they pulled almost a thousand permits in the Tampa area. Why? Because prices are still too high and provide a profit (or at least cash flow) to do so.

And what about the forgiven debt tax thing? That certainly provides incentives to walk away. Washington is so dumb, the left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-01 11:35:22

“And what about the forgiven debt tax thing? That certainly provides incentives to walk away. Washington is so dumb, the left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing.”

The Left Hand Of Darkness

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Comment by Muir
2008-11-01 12:00:16

Yeap!
Fro the Time article:
“Oddly enough, though, talk of the Federal Government’s possible mortgage bailout is beginning to slow things down. In Los Angeles, it has plugged the deal flow, because banks are now less willing to work things out since they suspect that Uncle Sam may offer better mortgage buyouts. “Recently, a lot of the financial institutions have stopped accepting short sales to find out if the government is going to buy their loans that are in default. They’re waiting to see what happens with the recent rescue plan to buy back mortgages,” says Fred Arnold, president of the California Association of Mortgage Brokers. In Miami, banks and distressed homeowners can’t wait to throw underwater mortgages into the government’s pool. Says Zalewski: “I can see the Federal Government giving them a mulligan and allowing them to sort of a do-over.”

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Comment by snake charmer
2008-11-01 12:14:12

The Tampa Tribune had a housing bubble mea culpa on its editorial page today. Only five years too late. Of course it’s more “who could have known.”

One thing the bubble has done is severely damage my faith in government at all levels. If I was a college-age young person today, watching our country’s future being compromised and rules being rewritten on the fly all in a frenetic effort to preserve housing prices at a level well above what I ever will be able to realistically afford, I would be very, very angry.

If we didn’t have television to distract us, we might have violence.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-01 13:22:29

‘If I was a college-age young person today, watching our country’s future being compromised and rules being rewritten on the fly all in a frenetic effort to preserve housing prices at a level well above what I ever will be able to realistically afford, I would be very, very angry.’

Why do you have to be ‘college-age’? I’m out of college and I’m PLENTY angry anyhow.
However, one thing soothes me mightily–the realization that all the ‘frenetic efforts’ galore ain’t gonna’ do crap to stop this bust.
My siblings, my younger friends, any progeny if I ever get some, they’ll likely have affordable housing available to them. Really ‘affordable’, not some nasty starter shack they hope to get out of as soon as possible. I want nice little young families to have nice little houses in good communities with friendly stable neighborhoods, and to be able to afford their mortgages without working themselves to death. That’s what I want.

 
Comment by Juno Moneta
2008-11-01 14:23:17

Note to OlympiaGirl;
Move to Costa Rica….Start a good life….The U.S. is “”TOAST”"

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-01 19:14:32

Move to Costa Rica….Start a good life….The U.S. is “”TOAST””

At least for the next 8 years. 4 for the one term president and another 4 to undo the new spending and taxes he signs into law. 8 years is enough time to dump Pelosi, Frank, Schumer, Reid, Dodd, McCain, and Obama in the new taxpayer revolt.

Does Costa Rica have the history of a Declaration of Independence similar to ours? of Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and George Washington?

I still have confidence we will get our taxpayer revolution nationwide.

Prop 13 was in 1978, before the Reagan revolution and at the depth of our shameful socialism. People had enough back then and they are going to get their fill of the Messiah and his cheerleaders Frank, Reid, Dodd, Shumer, and Pelosi.

 
 
Comment by Kirisdad
2008-11-01 20:15:10

Yup, dumbest move the gov’t made was dropping the IRS tax on forgiven debt. It wouldn’t have happened in a non-election year. They should repeal that law pronto, so those that can afford it, keep paying the mortgages.

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-11-01 10:58:51

“…and wanted real estate to start appreciating again.”

To what level? And at what rate? That’s what I’d love to know from these people. You know they’re just busting to see a replay of the epic (~1997 - ~2007) run up - but from today’s higher starting basis of course.

Comment by SoldierRenter
2008-11-01 11:43:55

From what I’ve seen talking to realtors (TM), they are completely disconnected from the reality of income equals affordability. The furniture salesman at least had that concept down. He said he purchased in 2003 for 110K, 3/2, 1200 square feet. Prices are back to that level but the size of the inventory and number of short sales and REOs is driving prices down further. BTW, household incomes are still about 50K for this area. I’m still trying to figure out the RE model. They really treat us buyers like dirt and are only looking for listings. I’ve had so many tell me that REOs are priced right when I tell them I’m looking to submit offers at 20% below asking. Ah, well, hopefully time is on our side…

Comment by Chip
2008-11-01 20:21:59

I’m surprised they’re still looking for listings. Would have thought they want to cut their operating costs (advertising) and focus on scrapping for that occasional potential buyer instead.

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Comment by Michael Fink
2008-11-01 10:26:49

““Zalewski is looking at purchasing a 1,800-sq.-ft condo with floor-to-ceiling windows overlooking the waterfront in a place just north of Miami. That unit sold to a speculator for $940,000 in 2006. The bank is asking $389,000 but will probably settle for $300,000, he says.””

Oh my god. What a disaster. I think that someone needs to say what those gentlemen were saying about Miami. It will likely be another generation (20 years) before another residential condo needs to be built in Miami. Frankly, it might be forever (the rest of all our lives); who knows if Miami will always be a desirable place to live (it certainly was NOT at some points in history).

How long before another home (of any kind) needs to be built in S. FL? 10 years? That’s my guess, I’d like to hear what others think though.

Looks like 50% was incredibly optimistic for the real bubble areas. There are already SFHs in my area that are 50% down, and condos more then that. However, the median price is still incredibly sticky; that’s what I looking at to signal bottom. Once the median price is ~ 3X median income, I’ll start to believe that we are approaching bottom. We are still >5X median income, so still have a ways to fall to get back in line with traditional affordability (even after the huge drop we have had in Palm Beach).

Comment by snake charmer
2008-11-01 12:21:51

This is a good time for someone to post that great quote about South Florida and prices rising indefinitely. I last was in Miami in 2006, and drove south from Ft. Lauderdale down I-95 looking at a dozen or more gigantic condominiums under construction. They looked like huge dinosaurs, and Mayan temples, and other oversized things destined for extinction.

 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-01 12:31:34

Palm Beach has dropped faster than Miami.
There is a reason for that.
Miami had much more fraud than Palm Beach and for much longer.
Straw buyers were still buying last year!
-
However, for me this is not a disaster.
I’ve finally decided where to buy and more or less at what price.
When is a different question.

 
Comment by Juno Moneta
2008-11-01 14:29:40

Mike Fink;
2013 looks like a good date to me….for the next wave of ‘pay-options arms’ resets to clear foreclosure….
The “BIG” question for you is; Is that where you want to spend the rest of your life…cuz, “if” you buy one of ‘those’ that’s where you’ll be….eternally yours..

 
Comment by Joshua Tree
2008-11-01 23:11:18

Michael Fink says:

“Oh my god. What a disaster. I think that someone needs to say what those gentlemen were saying about Miami. It will likely be another generation (20 years) before another residential condo needs to be built in Miami. Frankly, it might be forever (the rest of all our lives); who knows if Miami will always be a desirable place to live (it certainly was NOT at some points in history).”

Don’t forget the number of missing Democrats of 18+ years (~20 million) who would otherwise have helped The One win this election, and fill all those empty condos, if not for Roe-v-Wade in 1973.

 
 
Comment by SFC
2008-11-01 10:49:09

There’s a new form of “timing the market”. One needs to decide when to stop paying the mortgage. Too early and you lose the house to foreclosure before you’re bailed out. Too late and you miss the bailout.

 
Comment by Neil
2008-11-01 11:23:06

“‘I used to work for Countrywide, now I’m here waiting tables,’ she says. ‘I’m 33. I stopped waiting tables when I was 23, but now it’s all I can get.’”

ROTFL

Well… that’s what happens when you really do not develop skills. I’m serious. About 1/3rd of the engineers I know really lack skills too. At least two generations have been spoiled by the lack of recessions. This one is going to teach them a bit about a work ethic. My grandfather was really sad about how many of his lazier friends starved to death in the Depression. It was always the same story: He would have an ‘in’ for slots on a work truck on Monday for five days of hard field work fixing roads that came with ‘hardy food’ for that work week. The lazy friends never showed up and often couldn’t find any other work during the week; he would come back a few times a year and one (or more) friends would have starved (or more precisely, succumbed to an illness due to malnutrition).

I feel for the wait staff. Who is eating out? My wife and I eat out once a week post a class and notice the restaurant is pretty lean. We also notice that only a few of the waitresses really hustle and they’re given the best shifts. The others are having their hours cut…

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by Rancher
2008-11-01 12:18:36

My father was a young man during the depression and his advice to me was to go to college and get a degree in science, ie..engineering, and then learn a vocation in the trades.
Luckily I followed his advice, more by accident than anything else.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-01 17:08:46

Neil
Health care isn’t immune to cutting hours, either. Spouse’s medical practice revenues sliding in what is usually a recession proof biz. About 15 percent on mom basis.
Cooked a pan of Hamburger Helper just last night.

 
Comment by cougar91
2008-11-01 19:10:00

>At least two generations have been spoiled by the lack of recessions.

I don’t know what you mean by this. Surely there has been quite a few recessions in the last 30-40 years, like in 73-74 and 80-82, which were quite serious recessions. The one in the early 90’s was kinda bad, and the one in early 2000’s was mild by comparison.

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-11-01 21:43:06

I agree. I work with people who are complacent, they do their one thing and that’s it. They can’t conceive there might be a time when they will need some additional skills.

And of course, when that time comes they will project their woes onto other thing. I guess it’s the “internal” vs “external” locus of control. I think most people are of the “external” type.

 
 
Comment by megamike
2008-11-01 19:37:01

Keep in mind that all of those empty homes, condos, et-eceta are EMPTY! And thats an issue in itself…I doubt all of those structures are kept at a comfy 72 degrees in order to prevent the growth of mold…..think about it..all that mold growing…year after year after year

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-01 20:06:34

Through the lens of the rear view mirror, the gubmint’s biggest folly in the current episode may appear to be stimulating hope among would-be sellers of vacant properties that future bailouts would provide them with a higher selling price than available offers under current market conditions. Meanwhile, prices have been steadily dropping at an accelerating rate, most recently at the highest rate of decline in U.S. history. Many sellers would have done best by selling when the rationale to do so first arose, rather than waiting around for cargo drops of cash from helicopters at some unspecified future date. There is loss of collective real wealth due to the rapid decline in value of untended vacant homes, which tend to attract vandalism, vagrants, vermin and lose value much more quickly than owner-occupied housing due to the lack of timely and proper maintenance.

 
 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-11-03 06:34:54

Gillette said. ‘We counted those properties as they were getting built as new customers. But guess what: Nobody moved in.’”

Sounds like teco failed to do their research and was too busy falling for the realestate hype put out by special interest groups and now they are in trouble. Keep folling the rest of the herd TECO and you too will fail!

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-11-03 06:41:54

“‘I used to work for Countrywide, now I’m here waiting tables,’ she says. ‘I’m 33. I stopped waiting tables when I was 23, but now it’s all I can get.’”

No, Ms Crawford, you could have put the effort into getting an advanced education, but you chose to follow the herd and fell victim to the hype. The way the housing market is today, you will be waiting tables for the next ten or so years along with the other realtors and mortgage brokers!

 
Comment by abdul rahim
2008-11-03 12:46:07

Ms crawford is getting on in years, but if she has any looks left, she will do better to dance around poles in the ‘better’ clubs in town.

 
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