Bits Bucket For November 9, 2008
Please visit the HBB Forum. Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.
Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
Please visit the HBB Forum. Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.
CALL it the Bad Apple of West 34th Street.
Neighborhood advocates are irked - and retail brokers mystified - over the big, empty hole that Apple Inc. has left on one of Manhattan’s busiest shopping blocks as it tries to unload the site that CEO Steve Jobs no longer wants.
Apple controls 21-25 W. 34th St. between Fifth and Sixth avenues, diagonally across from the Empire State Building. Its 75-by-100-foot site constitutes half of the crater that also includes 27-29 W. 34th St., which has been leased to fancy footwear retailers Geox and Aldo.
But while a building to house the shoe stores is expected to rise soon, the Apple situation is less clear.
“It’s been all cloak-and-dagger,” said Prudential Douglas Elliman honcha Faith Hope Consolo.
The land under both sites is owned by a joint venture of SL Green and Jeff Sutton. The JV leased nos. 21-23 to Apple way back in November 2006.
Small buildings on the site were demolished. Merchants on West 34th Street - where stores like Banana Republic and Victoria’s Secret have been replacing schlocky discounters - looked forward to another spectacular Apple emporium like the one on Fifth Avenue.
An Apple rep sniffed this week, “We’ve made no announcement about that location and can’t comment.”
But publicly traded SL Green has no such luxury - the lease with Apple is noted in its February 2007 10-K statement to the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Apple liked the location so much it subsequently leased adjacent 25 W. 34th, giving it 75 feet of precious sidewalk frontage. Apple pays $5,906,692 in annualized rent, according to Green’s latest 10-K.
But Steve Jobs soon decided he didn’t want a store there after all; one source said he looked at a run-down building across the street and said, “This is not for Apple.”
So Apple put the site up for sublease through Robert K. Futterman. RKF’s Web site says the property - which can support about 18,000 square feet on three levels - will be available for 13 years starting April 1, 2009.
RKF broker Karen Bellantoni did not return a call.
So far, there’s no word of a nibble.
“None of this makes any sense to us,” said Dan Pisark, vice president of retail services for the 34th Street Partnership.
$5.9 million a year in rent. For a retail storefront. Maybe I’m just a hick, but how do you make THAT back? Prestige location? Word-of-mouth? Corporate sales?
Stupid is as stupid does.
– Forrest Gump –
Steve Jobs vision is unparalleled IMHO.
He has created one of the preeminent brands on the planet.
A quick story about his standards. At the main Apple campus (Cupertino, Ca) an exposed stainless steel coffee roaster was being installed in the company cafeteria. The place looks like a four star restaurant. Anyway this roaster was very expensive. All brushed stainless steel including the ductwork. He walked in and saw the quality of work being performed and promptly relieved that company of their work. He subsequently hired another contractor to complete the install. This contractor finished it over the weekend with many men and much overtime. Probably a bill of $150K +/-.
My point he demands this level of competence from everyone including himself. That’s why Apple’s products are sooo good.
Typing on his 17″ macbook pro,
Mike
I don’t give a flying fark about the overpriced Apple brand. My comment was targeted to the NYCity story.
Steve Jobs is unparalleled in history on separating fools from their hard-earned money.
They’ve come out with the iMac, iBook, iPod and iPhone. I have an invention for you. It’s called the iDontneedit. It costs nothing and it doesn’t leave an empty feeling when lost.
I don’t got no iPod. I don’t got no iMac. I don’t got no iBook. I don’t got no iPhone. Gotta 100 free radio stations on AOL. Gotta AT&T cell phone that’s red with a camera in it I don’t know how to use. Call my daughter with it. Got books with paper pages. Gotta free calendar with dogs on it at work. Gotta 5 years old paid for hp pavilion computer. Able to save 28 percent of my salary for my 403b at work becuz I don’t gotta Steve Jobs stuff. Don’t need Steve Jobs stuff, don’t want Steve Jobs stuff. Still have fun without it all. No payments to Steve Jobs. Don’t buy Starbucks, neither. Hate coffee. No worries about money. End of story. Get your rent money off of someone else’s back, Steve-o.
I about sh!t a brick when the wife bought our daughter an iPod a couple of years ago. Talk about an overpriced waste of green rectangles…
When I was shopping for a new notebook last year, I looked at the Macbook Pro. When I saw the price tag, I laughed heartily, and moved on to buy another Toshiba for half the price. I couldn’t be happier. The only thing that the MacBook offers that my Toshiba doesn’t, is status, something I’ve never given a rats @ss about anyhow.
You guys are a hostile bunch this morning
To each their own. I love their sh*t.
Mike
Well, Mike, maybe you can marry Steve Jobs!
Oh wait, you can’t, not any more.
“I don’t got no iPod. I don’t got no iMac. I don’t got no iBook. I don’t got no iPhone. Gotta 100 free radio stations on AOL. Gotta AT&T cell phone that’s red with a camera in it I don’t know how to use. Call my daughter with it. Got books with paper pages. Gotta free calendar with dogs on it at work. Gotta 5 years old paid for hp pavilion computer. Able to save 28 percent of my salary for my 403b at work becuz I don’t gotta Steve Jobs stuff. Don’t need Steve Jobs stuff, don’t want Steve Jobs stuff. Still have fun without it all. No payments to Steve Jobs. Don’t buy Starbucks, neither. Hate coffee. No worries about money. End of story. Get your rent money off of someone else’s back, Steve-o.”
Silver…
Quite liberating isn’t it? For me, being a staunch anti-hyper-consuming Robot is paramount to living comfortably during this debaucle and beyond. I keep a de-activated cell phone in my van in case I need to call 911 for a tow, and that’s it. No ipods, blackberries, or other assorted crap. 10 year old vehicle and 5 year old computer with dial-up.
IMO trying to keep up with the evolving Techno toys is a losing sure-fire wallet-draining game. By the time someone figures out how to work the damn things, they come out with a new one, and it’s rinse, repeat with the learning curve…what a freakin’ joke.
It’s a great feeling to look at some house, car and/or gizmo and think, “yeah, I could buy that, but I won’t,” then walk away.
Mortgage free + crapfree + debt free=Happpeee
DOC
From someone who’s owned two iPods - I disagree with them being superior. Both have broken, with many software bugs apparent (constant resets, etc.). I use a Sansa now and will probably never go back to iPod. They have the reputation of being robust, but in reality IMO are crap.
Jobs is the king of hype, and therefore has appeal to the X & Y generations that are so susceptible to hype - that’s why his company has been so successful.
FWIW I do own a Mac G5 as well, and generally thinks it’s OK, but I use my PC a lot more.
Pussy,
I think you’ve drafted me to the wrong team.
Doc,
I am debt free as well with quite enough scratch thank you.
I just have a weakness for electronics, and jeeps, and motorcycles, and…………you get the picture.
Mike
Got Apple shares?
I note they had the mother of all dead cat bounces between the onset of the most recent crash and the second leg down, which continues to date and is likely to worsen in the face of the consumer confidence drought.
PB,
I had quite a few Apple shares. Made quite a bit of money. Sold most of it @$168. I am no longer a shareholder nor do I have any plans to reinvest in the company.
IMHO any bad news involving SJ will torpedo that stock. With his cancer history and emaciated appearance at Macworld I had to finally sell. And glad I did!
Mike
Mike — Congrats on your timing. I lost some dough trying to short them a couple of years ago, just before the mother of all dead cat bounces mysteriously ended what appeared to be a huge money-making opportunity. You win some and you lose some (can’t say my prediction was wrong, except for the timing — but as FPSS points out, timing is everything in finance and xes.)
Mike or Doc?
Agree with most but the Dial up? you are kidding right. dial up wastes more time than is reasonably necessary.
Paid off 95 Toy, renter,savings in cash, old old cell, old clean clothing, cook sort of okay foods at home..no tipping necessary and as you note, the list can go on.
But you guys are hostile towards SJ, and yet you let other real crooks slide without mention. How does that work?
I have to admit, I have a soft place in my heart for Apple.
In the early 80’s I worked for an architect firm that designed some of the Apple buildings in Santa Clara.
My boss who was a techno-guru decided to switch from IBM PC using DOS (not MS-DOS) to the Macintosh computers. Our office had a SE, 512KE and the Apple II. For me it was love at first click. When I found out all I had to do was point and click, I fell in love. Stayed with the Apple products, until the bio tech company I work for decided to go to the PC. Even now, half the company uses Apple and half the company uses the PC (CEO sits on Apple’s board). I still miss the MAC.
you guys are hostile towards SJ, and yet you let other real crooks slide without mention. How does that work? Well, my personal supply of hostility is limited, and I must budget it carefully.
If it wasn’t for Steven Jobs, Bill Gates would have never seen a Macintosh with a mouse and we would all still be using DOS.
Why we still have to use single letters for drive name (a:\ c:\ etc.) is beyond me.
DDweller,
Dial up? For me? You’ve got the wrong Mike. I haven’t got the patience for a slow connection. I’m serious, my attention span won’t permit it. I just upgraded my wireless network to a (gasp) 1 Terabyte Apple Time Capsule. 802.11n. Smoking fast. I absolutely love it. The whole family pounds it pretty hard and it works flawlessly.
Mike
Hey im a dj and dont have an ipod, and i dont use a computer at my gigs. But i do make mp3 cd’s so i carry about 50 of them instead of 300+ cd’s….
150 motown songs at 192 fit on one cd…make a copy and back to back make happy music!
I use a denon 4500 dual cd player that plays mp3 cd’s cost me $700 but well worth it.
Only have a pay cell phone, so no monthly fees, and i do have verizon dsl…i cant wait to get Fios…i like a fast internet…
Pacman:
Its almost you have to buy a Mac for music and video. There are NO JOBS listed anywhere for a PC video editior…
Everyone uses Final cut pro i actually have an old copy on an all in one imac, but i have 1gb memory..
===========================
FWIW I do own a Mac G5 as well, and generally thinks it’s OK, but I use my PC a lot more.
I love their products as well. Have had an ipod for three years. I do agree some of them are overpriced. Of course I never buy them when they first come out. But that’s a mistake with any electronics.
To each his own I guess. I love music and carry it everywhere. Car, work, home they are small and a great way to carry my music with me. And a heck of a lot better then those huge walkman’s everyone used to carry around. Or the portable CD’s players.
Steve Jobs is a tool. Can’t stand the guy.
You pay a premium but IMHO I think it well worth the diff. Everything works seemlessly,and bundled SW lets you do everything you want..Very little virus problems etc etc…I have 2 PC friends that have to do a clean install because of corruption or virus etc at least twice a year…
….gotta say there is some real venom here today..also saying an iPOD is useless is quite ignorant. It has changed a generations listening habits, with portability and speed. Maybe you guys should go back to your hifi’s and 8 tracks…sheesh what a bunch of crabbing for crabbing sake.
Hey - I didn’t say anything about Apple products.
I simply said that Jobs is a tool. Which he is.
I don’t have a hi-fi or an 8-track. I also don’t have any Apple products. Why not? Because Jobs is a tool. I won’t give him any of my money.
Get it?
I don’t buy gas at Citgo either. Citgo may vend very good gasoline these days. Regardless, I don’t willingly spend money at Citgo. Why? Because Chavez is a tool.
Moonbats, one & two ask/plead Daddy Warbucks please ’save’ the auto bis.
In a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr., House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) asked Paulson to “review the feasibility . . . of providing temporary assistance to the automobile industry during the current financial crisis.”
The letter notes that Congress granted Paulson broad discretion to use the bailout money to “restore financial market stability. A healthy automobile manufacturing sector is essential to the restoration of financial market security,” the letter continues, as well as to “the overall health of our economy, and the livelihood of the automobile sector’s workforce.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/08/AR2008110802000_pf.html
Can the house builders be far behind? They are essential to “the American dream”. Never mind that they helped create this American Nightmare. Stupid greedy people doing stupid greedy things should surprise none of us. The fact that anybody votes for The Runaway Bride is shameful.
“Can the house builders be far behind?”
Don’t forget the candle making shops and pirate stores.
Don’t forget the poodle groomins shops either.
Scrapbooking, aromatherapy, and house staging. Personal trainers, life coach and yoga studios.
Also, the double-D makers specializing in the “rise” of Bubbles™ and Jiggles™
And the koi-pond specialists, man, how can you forget the koi?
Hey, don’t pick on the poodle groomers. April May, the wonder-dog rescue poodle, needs her groomer. All 14 lbs of fluffy white puppy-dog.
Pet essay writer!
Home organizers! How can you forget them?
Off-site storage companies, too. All those people buying crap they’ll never use - and then storing it in a climate controlled environment for $100 month.
Hot-diggity-damn, I forgot both of those. I am ashamed of myself now.
But not as ashamed as an “ethical” Realtor™ (hyuck-yuck, I made a funny.)
No need to be ashamed about missing the obvious. happens to the best of us, Pussy.
Now, about your recent obscene roll in the ‘nip…
Hey what about DJ’s? we are hurting too due to the the lack of heloc $$$ funding surprise 40th birthday parties on a $1000hr boat cruises around Manhattan. And people not spending $100+ each to go to their high school reunion….
And you Dumbos keep banning Gay Marriages, we need the JOBS!
I say no more huge weddings on the visa card.
No more expensive vacations on the mastercard.
Simple weddings, low key vacations and affordable colleges.
“Simple weddings, low key vacations and affordable colleges.”
The horror of it all is just too much to stand. I’m going to go buy something on credit right NOW to make myself feel better!
Hey i agree the money wasted on weddings is gross, but i might as well put my hand out and grab some.
Even Weddings with no drinking where i had to play gospel/christian music during dinner and not too suggestive music later for light dancing made the wedding. i got a $200 tip the most i ever got.
affordable colleges.
Seriously we need to close at least 1/3 of them forever. Big waste of money. What we need is more intensive short term tech blue collar secretarial computer schools.
I am in favor of forcing you to get 6 months+ of full time classes if you collect unemployment. A lot can be learned in a very short time if you were in school 30-40 hours a week knowing you would be docked a day or more if you didn’t show up.
RE: college
Middle class $$$ extortion machines…
“Simple weddings, low key vacations and affordable colleges.”
We are heading back to the 1970s. I will feel right at home. I still like The Brady Bunch.
I like the show Married with children and still like it. I think we are headed to the early 80’s
My HS reunion just cut the DJ due to less than expected RSVPs and an already too high ticket price (I told them so on both issues, but no one listens to me). In place of the DJ? An iPod. (Sorry to aNYCdj and your industry - wouldn’t have been my decision.)
The 50’s would be great as far as I am concerned….all but losing the AC. Beyond that it was a great time to be alive and I would also like to feel like a preteen again. Remember that blissful ignorance? Damn fine feelin.Joy!
Can’t even find that with a good bottle of liquor now.
Don’t community colleges fill the need for “more intensive short term tech blue collar secretarial computer schools”? If not Voc Ed, then what they hell are they teaching in CC or JuCo?
Nova:
Its still COLLEGE, as opposed to real life job training.
Here is a better idea:
Open the intern program to ALL people. Yes its ILLEGAL (Fair Labor Standards Act) to hire me as an intern because i am not in school.
Think of what this will do …..i could work for FREE for say 250-300 hours like an intern but get a recent job on my resume.
I think that is holding me back as well as many others. No recent job in our field, and yet i cant volunteer and work for free….(What good is a hospital or other non profit?) Thanks america
Work for free? Stop and think about what a tool you would be. In fact, it is the very definition.
I’LL BEG TO WORK FOR FREE
You just dont get it……
The stupid idiot fake boobed Paris Hilton clone who is looking at the resumes, looks for RENT jobs or internships….mine has none
Its a trade off Recent in my field Free work to get past the clueless airhead looking at my resume.
Can the house builders be far behind?
You know they are already standing in line waiting to be ’saved’
As Charlie Munger once said when asked, ‘how’s this going end’…His answer… Badly!
Hey Wmbz, my mom is having her 85th this saturday in pasadena and I asked her to invite CM’s daughter and she accepted. Got any good questions for me to ask her? Make me a list.
“As Charlie Munger once said when asked, ‘how’s this going end’…His answer… Badly!”
Does anybody have any comments I can give to ms. munger? I was too young to invest in munger funds. darnnn.
Very cool, ann!
Maybe you can ask her where we can invest, now that Treasuries have beaten-down all the savers in America.
Their employees can’t vote.
Nuff said.
Sure they can. No one asks for proof of citizenship when registering. Its an honor system.
Thirty years ago, thirty years ago! the warning signs were there for Detroit and for all the auto workers and their families. Nevertheless the Big 3 went on their SUV building rampage and many an autoworker’s kid still followed in pop’s footsteps at the local plant.
Thirty years - how much warning do people need to start on a new path/career? Auto manufacturing is not the industry that will pull America out of this. Let the Chinese build them and waste their time and resources on that industry. Our money should be going towards new technologies.
Commie!
Don’t worry, comrade. The TARP is being extended as we speak.
It’s all over the press already.
I’ve been saying the same thing. We don’t necessarily need to manufactore old tech things to thrive. Information technology, medical research, biotech, tourism, entertainment are good areas that should thrive in the Messiah’s term.
Well certainly they should do better than under a president whose main base of support was people who don’t believe in science.
Hahahahahaha! Yogurt comes in a funny flavor!
all outsourceable like autos
Keep deluding yourself; that’s the same tripe I heard 20+ years ago about how the Midwest could re invent itself with all the high tech jobs that were gong to be created if only we could export those nasty manufacturing jobs to the 3rd world. Now its the coasts’ turn in the barrel and the only thing left to sell are them high tech and finance jobs. When the boyz with the bucks get done buying up american companies for dimes on the dollar the only jobs left will be waiting on foreign tourists for tips. West coast job re training classes: Mandarin, Spanish; East Coast: Mandarin, Arabic.
Biotech and medical research I can see, but entertainment and tourism???
The entertainment industry sucks a lot of money out of the economy, and for what??? Don’t get me started on athletes and actors…
Tourism is okay but largely defined by low-skill people with painfully low wages. Not sure that’s what we need right now.
I’d prefer (in addition to your med suggestions) transportation, energy, building materials, and infrastructure.
Maybe it will be in vogue to drive a 12 year old Ford Escort station wagon that is fully paid for. Functionality cars, then the made to order luxury models.
I think its the only model that will work. Basic car AC Auto tranny, nice stereo not the 12 speaker Bose boomboxes.
Bring back the front bench seats for people who need more room…and the shift on the steering column
hey my grandfather had a Plymouth that had PUSH Button shift on the left side dashboard….
No more luxury crapola
If one steps back and looks at the whole of US economic history they might find some convincing evidence that the automobile did not strengthen this country…it weakened it.
It’s tough to see through the emotional fog that surrounds this touchstone subject, but think about it. Think about America’s stature in the world before our dependence on foreign oil. And that’s just one argument, there are others.
Household is presently driving:
1. 1992 turquoise Honda hatchback = 135,000 miles on it.
2. 2002 crimson Mazda Protege = 88,000 miles on it.
3. 2002 silver Mazda Protege = 45,000 miles on it - seldom driven, joked about as our ” old peoples’ car” for when we retire.
Gas milage on all 3 vehicles - good to excellent.
Car payments = zero for the last 6 years. The only one which was financed was at zero percent as a Mazda incentive in 2002, paid off 4 years early.
Plans to buy new vehicle = zero.
Good luck with that.. With modern safety, efficiency, emissions, etc. regs requiring a level of computerization that baffles the home mechanic (and/or requires expensive, proprietary tools) I can’t see holding onto cars all that long anymore..
At least I have my diesel for when inflation kicks in and it’ll be either $10/gal at the pump or fighting over waste cooking oil..
(ps: Mercedes just doesn’t build ‘em to last anymore.. Thanks a lot Lexus :/)
Otis, we could go buy a new whatchamacallit costing $35K for cash tomorrow. The point I was trying to make was that we don’t feel the NEED to buy anything at the present time, because all 3 vehicles are working just fine. With car payments hitting $ 350 per month if we didn’t take the $ 35K ( or whatever the cash price would be ) out of the bank, we can do a lot of car repairs if necessary. If we wanted a diesel, we’d hve a diesel. But with cold winters where we live, they’re a pain in the butt. Period. Our cars go down to a shop owned by “the Arabics”, as my daughter used to call them, and they are honest, hard-working, and don’t charge us an arm and a leg. You seem to think we’re foolish for hanging onto an old car. I think, that unless someone has a job requiring them to look snazzy and drive a new luxury model ( and there are some careers that do require that level of the look of prosperity ), it’s stupid to have a big, fat car payment. My next new car, if ever, will be a Ford, since Consumer Reports said that of the Big Three, their models have now reached the realibility level of Japanese manufacturers.
My Escort station wagon is 14 years old with 210,000 miles. Has a stick shift. I did do a clutch job and a fuel pump, but otherwise has been reliable. It gets 38 mpg epa estimate.
I ride a metaphorical Vincent Black Shadow.
Well, actually I ride around on a Golden Unicorn, ( or would if I was in the right world ), but they’re hard to park at work and keep eating the grass.
“Maybe it will be in vogue to drive a 12 year old Ford Escort station wagon that is fully paid for. Functionality cars, then the made to order luxury models. ”
It will be a necessity.
It’s sickening to see how auto manufacturers have been loading up their lines, even the more “standard” models with hedonistic, born to break crap that costs s**tloads in repair fees.
Dear auto manufacturers,
We no longer want or need overloaded and/or oversized vehicles. Quite frankly, we find it hard to believe you had millions of us requesting either of these in the first place. Save yourselves while you still can. Tell your designing and marketing staff to sober-up and go back to limiting these hedonic blunders to your exotic vehicle lines and pitch them to people with exotic incomes.
DOC
RE: the Big 3 went on their SUV building rampage
I have bought Big 3 motor vehicles all my life save for a couple used VW’s and have virtually no complaints.
However, it is one damn pathetic circumstance that with the enormous intellectual and engineering resources available to these entities, all three simply cannot produce a product line that the domestic market wishes to purchase in order to make a profit.
And with their legacy era union contract promises collapsing due to lavishness and corrupt accounting it’s now incumbent upon the US taxpayer to foot the tab.
No way will the social order go along with this travesty.
“…all three simply cannot produce a product line that the domestic market wishes to purchase in order to make a profit.”
This is a logical consequence of a govt willing to bail them out with no questions asked whenever a crisis threatens to punish their bad business decisions. Meanwhile, Japan continues to increase global market share in the automotive sector.
The “domestic market” you seem to be praising is the same one that went completely nuts and created the Housing Bubble.
It collapsed already, new union hires make $12/hr.
House prices in Michigan will continue to go down until those people can afford to buy a house at that wage.
Buy house on $12hr? You couldn’t do that 20 years ago.
At almost $25K per year, one could hypothetically qualify for around $75K house (I’d prefer $50K or so).
You were never able to buy anything fancy for that amount, but it was possible even in Southern California just about 10 years ago (even in some beach communities in San Diego, plain 3/2 in poor to fair condition, could be bought for around $70K-$90K in the 1996-1998 period)
Screw the unionized auto workers.
About 3 years ago, there was an exposee (and yes, I know there’s an accent and not two *e’s*, but I’m too lazy to add the accent mark) on PBS television in Chicago.
During the program, it was stated that there were more than 10,000+ auto workers at the Big Three making $56K annually to sit in factory cafeterias and do nothing all day. Some of these workers were televised playing poker. Others were napping.
None of this is surprising to anyone living in the Midwest.
What would be interesting to learn is the percentage of non-productive, unionized workers who spent their 1,000 hours of free time annually preparing for their future - perhaps by working towards a degree of some sort instead of sitting on their lard @sses.
Have you ever, like, you know, worked in a factory?
Rhetorical question. Of course you haven’t.
I guess the Chicoms have seen how well our stimulus/bailout has been working and want to give it a shot.
Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) — China announced a 4 trillion yuan ($586 billion) stimulus plan to spur expansion in the world’s fourth-largest economy, helping sustain global growth as the U.S., Europe and Japan teeter on the brink of recession.
The funds, equivalent to almost a fifth of China’s $3.3 trillion gross domestic product last year, will be used by the end of 2010, the Beijing-based State Council said today on its Web site. China will adopt a “pro-active fiscal policy” and pursue a “moderately loose” monetary policy, it said.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a.qGMw.h5jYA&refer=worldwide
If they use their money to bailout their economy what will they use to buy up all of our debt?
money isn’t everything.
what will they use to buy up all of our debt?
Looks like somebody figured out why US interest rates are going to go up.
They have taken careful note of how much of the bailout money has remained parked in the pockets of wealthy players at the top of the economic food chain.
Believe it or not, it has only been a few weeks since the $700+ bn mother of all bailouts was passed. This article, which came out between the first and second House votes on the package, seems worth revisiting. In retrospect, the writer’s crystal ball appears to have been in good working order at the beginning of October.
Bailout built on fantasy
Ron Smith
October 1, 2008
…
We wonder why not a solitary professional economist was asked to testify before Congress about this thing. There’s no time for inconvenient public hearings on the scheme. The people responsible for the mess - and I’m talking about the politicians of both parties - say the recklessness of the bankers, other lenders and investors must be rewarded with a bailout, or Americans on Main Street will feel the pain.
It’s a textbook example of “magical thinking” to believe that the biggest credit expansion in the history of economic man can be prevented from contracting by pouring even more borrowed money into a rescue operation. Why have so many intelligent people come to believe that economic expansion can just go on and on and on, without the historically inevitable bust taking place? The boom of recent years has been sustained each time a bust appeared likely through a simple ploy: Further credit expansion was put into play. More time was bought.
We wonder why not a solitary professional economist was asked to testify before Congress about this thing. At the time I was happening I wondered why the media did not mention this crucial omission. Only a few scattered comments on blogs mentioned it.
I heard through the grape vine that much economic policy during W’s reign was planned and executed w/o economists’ involvement. Of course, the profession will take the blame for much of what went wrong, thanks to certain high profile voices who like to give the impression that they are pulling all of the economy’s puppet strings…
’ssshrubery is like Harding on steroids, the difference being, that the later had the decency to go away while still in good standing.
Hardings lasting more than 4 years should be reported to your doctor immediately as this condition may cause undo damage to national morale and well-being.
Dang NYCityBoy,
You are feeling your oats today.
NYCItyboy, as one comedian pointed out, if you have a ‘Harding’ for more than four hours, don’t see a MD, call some hookers…
Specifically, a comedian that we saw said that if he got an erection from one of those products that lasted for more than 4 hours, he wouldn’t be on the way to the doctor, he would be going over to See Alice ( Cialis ), and then if it was still going strong, he would be calling up her Aunt Levitra.
Are there any good professional economists out there? I’m only joking, of course. But it seems to me that their credibility is on par with that of the politicians, realtors, bankers, etc.
Many of those with the MSM bully pulpit severely discredit the profession with their nonstop nonsensical blathering. Unfortunately, a majority of the profession appears to prefer submission to the high priests of their chosen religion, rather than offering an independent perspective.
a majority of the profession [of economists] appears to prefer submission and thus richly deserves severe discredit accompanied by nonstop blathering. IMHO.
The other part to understand is the degree to which the economics profession is bought by the hand that feeds them.
This must be a short sale ?
15100 Marquette St UNIT C Moorpark CA 93021 3 beds, 2.5 baths, 1,353 sq ft
For Sale: $300,000
Value Range: $280,925 - $353,635
30-day change: $14,000
Zestimate updated: 11/07/2008
Last sale and tax info
Sold 03/28/2006: $465,000
2008 Property Tax: $4,312
This is not going to end well! The NY Times today said:
Treasury Secretary Henry M. Paulson Jr. proposed a federal government purchase of this so-called toxic paper from financial institutions, which had the attraction of setting a price on these obligations and rendering some liquidity to them. But the mortgages would still be outstanding, and the names of the homeowners who took out those mortgages would still be there. Hence, the ownership of the mortgages might change, but the debtor would still be the same family or individual owing the same amount of money. The main concern now is to help the lender and the homeowner simultaneously.
A solution to these dilemmas would greatly improve the chances of reaching the primary goal: stabilization of home prices. To achieve it, we must alter the terms of these mortgages to contain the foreclosure process and, in time, bring it to an end. Only then can we shrink the number of houses under forced sale conditions and stop the downward pressure on prices.
Imagine if Barack Obama tries to “stabilize” house prices at their current, STILL TOO EXPENSIVE, rate! It will lead to inflation, hammering the nails in the coffin of the savers/investors/renters/Taxpayers who had nothing to do with the housing bubble, while deadbeats get their free house.
I think it’s pretty clear that savers/investors/taxpayers are going to get screwed the next four years no matter what, that’s kind of what happens when you vote in a commie socialist who despises the Constitution.
“that’s kind of what happens when you vote in a commie socialist who despises the Constitution”
What do you mean? Bush is on his way out. Oh, you meant Obama. I have to sign off now. I don’t want to come into conflict with the PATRIOT Act. I have to go feel safe and thank Georgie for protecting me from that big, bad Constitution and all of those terrible men in white wigs that wrote it.
McCain did not get elected. Wasn’t he the socialist who wanted to “buy up all the bad mortgages”? May he and Cindy lose a fortune on their real estate investing empire.
Any one of you obama kool aid drinkers who think everything’s gonna be great now, just check out his team that he’s assembling: an assortment of former investment bankers, and socialists advocating financially-stimulating proposals as raising taxes, requiring young people to work for free, and raising the TARP by billions of dollars. Sure, Bush was an idiot, but this is going to be no different, at best, and more likely, a disaster. You think savers and renters will be rewarded with Jamie Dimon on his team? You guys should start a comedy blog.
Yes, he was pledging to have the government buy the bad mortgages to “stabilize your home values”, and yet people still keep squawking that Obama is a ’socialist’. How does McCain get a pass?
“Any one of you obama kool aid drinkers who think everything’s gonna be great now,…”
Don’t assume, you make an @$$ out of you and
meyourself.They’re both socialist to some extent. Obama’s just more moreso.
Even Bush is socialist to a great extent - heck just look at his bailout package. He just had that extra dose of fascism added. I’m sure that’ll come from Obama soon enough. The media certainly has been prepping us for it with their blatant deification.
McCain/Bush/Palin had NO problem with socialism when the beneficiaries were Wall Street and the “elite” businessmen who depend on it for more
debtcredit. They didn’t have a problem spending money they didn’t have either. Who funds two simultaneous wars and an economic bailout with TAX CUTS???Seriously…the McCain koolaid drinking dumb@sses need to go back to school and learn that money, despite what their Wall Street and NAR brethren have told them, does not grow on trees.
As for Obama “fixing everything” in the first 100 days…no matter what, whoever inherited this 8 year Bush boondoggle was f#ckt anyway.
As opposed to this guy?
“Is it expensive? Yes,” said Mr McCain. “But we all know until we stabilise home values in America, we’re never going to start turning around and creating jobs and fixing our economy.”
I was focusing on Obama because he is our President-elect.
McCain was no better–in fact he was WORSE because he should have known better.
lainvestorgirl,
Never mind….
‘lainvestorgirl,
Never mind….’
Yeah. Ditto.
Totally cracked me up driving home the other day, listening to talk radio warn individuals about how the Obama administration is going to be knocking on doors taking away guns and civil liberties…
I changed the channel before I had a chance to call in and say, “and you know the worst part about that? The Obama administration will do it all legally in the name of protecting us using the PATRIOT act.”
Don’t blame me, I voted for Kodos…
(Actually, I was one of the 1800 or so in my state to vote Bob Barr… Mavericks to the right of me, Socialists to the left of me, volunteers behind me, volleying and thundering…)
The maavericks were closet socialists.
I voted for Kang. Kodos is a “socialist”.
Communists are not socialist.
Barack Obama was a professor of Constitutional law at University of Chicago, and, I suspect, has studied and considered it perhaps more thoroughly than yourself.
He was also elected to be your new President by a pleurality of 8 million Americans who rather like his political approach. You might want to come to grips with these facts as you make your way through the clean-up of the last eight (twenty-eight,) years’ debacle?
Hear hear! Let’s all heave a sigh of relief for a CIC who has at least read the Constitution (not to suggest that Sarah Barracuda and John McSame never did, or anything…).
“…that’s kind of what happens when you vote in a commie socialist who despises the Constitution.”
Perhaps we should rename this the “Sour Grapes Bucket”. The level of whining and bellyaching coming from many long time posters is absurd. Unbelievable.
All I’ll say is this:
I just hope wingnuts show Obama the same respect and consideration for the office of President of the United States that moonbats showed Bush.
Also, buyers’ remorse amongst moveon.orgers and Kos kidz by July 2009. And when Emanuel starts twisting arms to get UAW concessions for the big 3 bailout? Much weeping and lamentations in Congress..
I just hope wingnuts grow up and show Obama more respect and consideration for the office of President of the United States than moonbats showed Clinton.
ha ha … how many ‘pubs have I heard use this stupid ’socialism’ line in the past week? Too many to count. Lots of irrational fear right now from the gop side.
Take a deep breath. It’s gonna be alright. Obama was Buffett and Volker on his side.
“…hammering the nails in the coffin of the savers…”
I dunno, after going to a trade show yesterday and listening to the vendors/retailers - I think the rest of this country needs savers more than savers need them right now.
Remember everyone - your dollar is your real vote - always drive a hard bargain and bring them to their knees!
This is the same logic used by FDR. Who was saying yesterday that the current leaders can learn from the GD and not repeat those mistakes?
They may try to prop up prices, but it will have the same effect as last time, surplus of goods. Last time we had people starving while FDR had farmers destroy crops. This time we’ll have homeless while Obama is bulldozing houses.
When people can’t afford things, propping up prices and destroying goods are not the solution.
“Last time we had people starving while FDR had farmers destroy crops. This time we’ll have homeless while Obama is bulldozing houses.”
Dumb, dumb, dumb!!! I hope you are wrong about Obama — not at all surprised FDR would have tried something so lame brained…
FDR was in the pockets of the big bankers, such as his family members. I hope Obama can tell the bankers to f–k off but I’m not so sure.
Right now we pay farmers to grow corn to turn into gasoline.
Who would support such a lame policy?
“Imagine if Barack Obama tries to “stabilize” house prices at their current, STILL TOO EXPENSIVE, rate! It will lead to inflation,…”
I don’t follow your reasoning. We have been over this topic again and again and again, but I will try once more.
1) You cannot restart housing price inflation without wage inflation, and I see no evidence for this on the near-term horizon.
2) You also cannot restart housing price inflation against the backdrop of a tightening of lending standards, including the elimination of liar loans, subprime loans, low doc / no doc loans, fraudential real estate transactions, securitization of mortgage loans into bundles to be sold to greater fools, etc etc etc.
3) A more likely outcome to efforts at propping up home prices against the backdrop of a reversion to sane lending standards is a near-complete shutdown of the home sales market (sound familiar???), as there are few qualified buyers willing and able to pay seller wishing prices based on the vestiges of the collapsed housing bubble.
4) In apparent utter disregard for the efforts by all the king’s horses and all the king’s men to prop up home prices, all the available evidence suggests that prices are currently dropping at the fastest rate in history. I have no reason to believe that the market will improve until prices bottom out at affordable levels (just like they did during the last real estate bust, by the mid-1990s).
The point of the original commenter you seem to be trying to criticize is that the future government still thinks it worthwhile (and even possible) to keep house prices from falling further. [That line of thinking is what I refer to as the Zombie.] Government efforts directed at this unworthy goal are either a waste of resources or positively harmful. You both seem to be against that goal.
I was taking issue with his assertion that efforts to reflate housing prices are likely to succeed, no more and no less…
Any plan–by both McCain or Obama–to have the government buy up Mortgages is misguided and wrong.
Why? Because it’s predicated on the belief that HOUSE PRICES WILL GO UP AGAIN! They won’t, relative to wages, because they’re still too high. Historic ratios are, in fact, closer to (median house price) = (2x median wage). Google and see what Levitt sold his houses for in 1955 and then check median wages…and that was with E-Z financing (meaning the houses could have been sold for less with traditional financing).
My point was Barack Obama is stocking up with advisors who believe that house prices will Rise Again! (McCain believes house prices and the South will Rise Again!). That’s very bad.
I’m furious with Obama because he did nothing to save my marriage, and 75% of blacks voted to end my marriage. They don’t want to get ahead. They want revenge. (Same sex couples are perceived as being rich white people, not “people of color” like myself).
“I’m furious with Obama because he did nothing to save my marriage, and 75% of blacks voted to end my marriage.”
Since my reply seems to have evaporated…
I was wondering, reuven, where you got the percentage of blacks from? That information is suspect.
Secondly, what percentage of voting Republicans, Mormons, and Orthodox Jews do you think support your marriage? Do you think that many gays aren’t racist (I know for a fact that many of them are) and are still deserving of unqualified black support, regardless of that?
Here’s a quote from Ed Rollins, the GOP campaign manager who brought Ronald Reagan to victory.
“Republicans need to grow up”, Ed Rollins, 11/5/08 commenting on the Obama victory.
A solution to these dilemmas would greatly improve the chances of reaching the primary goal: stabilization of home prices. To achieve it, we must alter the terms of these mortgages to contain the foreclosure process and, in time, bring it to an end. Only then can we shrink the number of houses under forced sale conditions and stop the downward pressure on prices.
————————
Until prices are allowed to fall to their true, market-clearing levels, today’s purchases will be tomorrow’s foreclosures…**INCREASING** the ultimate number of foreclosures over time.
Keeping prices high is exactly what will make this recession turn into a depression.
We need to focus on the **real** economy and move away from trying to control housing prices and the related debt. Debt destruction is our only way out of this mess. Best to get it over with quickly, and with the least amount of damage to those who will help build the economy in the future (savers and those who do not have debt).
A person can handle six months of unemployment, but he cannot handle six years. We need to correct swiftly, even if it means an over-correction. An over-correction would enable the prudent to buy at prices that would almost assure they will never enter foreclosure. Isn’t that what they are supposedly trying to achieve: no foreclosures?
Jared Diamond’s writings were a revelation to me, as his nuanced way of looking at the world in the big picture historically, combined with his decades long journeys into the wilderness of New Guinea, is similar to my world-view, my wilderness turf being the Sierra Nevada.
I recommend “Guns, Germs & Steel” & “Collapse” as a primer to his way of thinking.
Here’s a TED video of him in 2003 describing how societies collapse. @ around 12:00 of this 18 minute video he describes our present course towards collapse, with chilling detail…
“One blueprint for trouble making collapse likely,
is where there’s a conflict of interest between the short-term interests of the decision-making elites and long-term interests of the society as a whole, especially if the elites are able to insulate themselves from the consequences of their actions.”
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jared_diamond_on_why_societies_collapse.html
“…especially if the elites are able to insulate themselves from the consequences of their actions.”
This is where the lingering spector of the security measures enacted after 2001 concern me. The very same security measures that were ostensibly meant to protect us from them - could also be used to protect us from us…if you catch my drift.
I think the plan always was to “protect us from us”.
D’s ought to be able to kill all that now. Let them.
I love Diamond’s writing as well, but be cautious about trying to apply his ideas, which are written to describe events that play out over the course of geologic time, to the what is likely to occur over the relatively short duration of individual human lifespans.
Not really professor, one of his observations were that societies can and do collapse very quickly once the tipping point is reached. Not in Geological time, rather, more like in a generation.
Arriving at the tipping point is the event whose timing is highly unpredictable and can take many generations to play out. But I defer to Aladinsane’s expertise on the question of whether we have arrived already…
Alad,
It’s ironic you mention him, as one of his fundamental tenants is that in the end, there is no safe heaven or refuge for even the very wealthy to retreat to.
Muir,
My wife and I were talking about the Anasazi, en route on our roadtrip…
A horrible drought that lasted decades chased them away from their carefully constructed dwellings (Chaco Canyon was the the center of a spoked wheel, whose spokes radiated outwards like hours on a clockface towards smaller satellite cities) and they apparently never came back, from all appearances.
At the same time this event was happening (12th century) other places were thriving somewhat. There was enough money in Europe in fact, so much to waste, that a long series of religious wars were going on, as Crusaders went on long voyages to far-away lands, in dubious battle.
It’s hard to say how oncoming climate change will benefit places more than others (the Fertile Crescent being a great example of an area that was once rich agriculturally, but isn’t much now), but those that have prepared for eventualities and have the wherewithal mentally, physically and fiscally stand the best chance of avoiding the fate of the Anasazi.
If there were 767’s flying from Albuquerque-New York-Paris in 1155, don’t you think some well-heeled Anasazi would have headed off for greener pastures, given the chance?
‘…and they apparently never came back, from all appearances.’
Anasazi…mmm, mmmm…it’s what’s for dinner.
Pass the Mancorn, please.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Man-Corn/Christy-G-Turner/e/9780874805666
Alad,
I am sorry Alad, today I play “professor.”
-
Chapter 9: Norse Greenland’s End.
“The last rights they obtained for themselves was the privilege of being the last to starve.”
Chapter 16, The World as a Polder: What does it all mean to us today?
“The whole World today is a self-contained and isolated unit…. We need to realize … that there is no other island/other planet to which we can turn for help, or to which we can export our problems. Instead, we need to learn, as they did, to live within our means.”
–
–
There is no 727 to anywhere today.
This has been my point for weeks now. Alad’s strategy is all-in at the Mad Max table.
Who will still be playing then?
Muir and Alad, despite both of you being smarter than I am, and better writers, too, you both still fail to recognize that all we’re doing here is constructing a narrative like any other fool. We’ve neither priveleged nor special perspective.
For every Muir, there is a Casey; for every Alad, there is a lady who thinks Obama will buy her gas; for every Muggy there is a lady in Orlando raffling her house to the winner of the most endearing pet essay.
And for all of us, there is Andrew Lahde, who put his cash on the table while we all were making fun of Snaith.
We just guessed correectly. That’s all.
Muggy,
Your antics are wearing thin, and you worry entirely too much about my well-being.
Why not live your life instead?
I know almost nothing about you…
“Why not live your life instead?”
As long as you are on this board, predicting the end of the world, I will wear you thin.
I find you quite annoying, too, honey.
I’ve never predicted the end of the world, just profound change.
“just profound change”
I ask again, who will still be playing then?
What are you babbling on about now?
It’s indecipherable.
“What are you babbling on about now? It’s indecipherable.”
I’ll make a list so it’s easier for you:
1. You can’t predict the future
2. Your predictions create a paradox
3. Your quotes and clever writing mean nothing, it’s merely entertainment
Answer me one last question, and then I promise to leave you alone.
Are you short and bald by any chance?
Muggy,
Is that all you have left?
A little character assassination vis a vis your desired hope of what I look like…
So you are bald. I knew it.
‘We just guessed correectly. That’s all.’
Yeah? And Muggy; that is sure good enough for ME.
“I am sorry Alad”
Don’t apologize, it’s cowardly.
Thanks for posting. Just finished second reading of Guns… and starting second reading of Collapse.
I like G, G & Steel, but can’t get myself to slog through “Collapse”. I’ve started it twice and wandered away both times.
Aladinsane, I was very pleased to be able to watch this video, and will be buying J. Daimond’s book ( used of course ), if I can’t find it at the library. I have done quite a bit of study on the Norse culture as a whole, and everything he said about the Greenland Norse was right on, with the additional problems of a plague being brought to one of their colonies by some trading ship, and their isolated fjord being bypassed by traders as just too hard to get to. I saw an interesting program on some educational channel a couple of years ago on the Greenland Norse, and they took a boat from Nuuk ( I think they helicoptered part of the way ) to the location of the last Norse colony ( there were two, but one was wiped out by the plague ), and it was incredible to see how far inland Erik the Red had chosen to settle. Erik ( father of the famous Leif Erikson ) was under a death sentence for killing someone in Norway, and was also banned in Iceland for another killing, so he took his family and followers and came to this new seeming paradise of an island. For the first two or three hundred years, things worked out, but then the deforestation made it harder and harder to build boats so they could go atrading, make their iron as pointed out in the lecture, etc. I bookmarked the link and sent it to several members of my family. That’s why we drive old cars, try to preserve our cash, and own some gold. Also, why we have passports.
“with the additional problems of a plague being brought to one of their colonies by some trading ship”
Catastrophism. Gets the best of ‘em.
Muggy,
Sometimes you respond to reason, and here’s a little.
The little town where I live used to have almost as many Native Americans, as people that live here now.
The indians lived in peace & plenty for over 500 years and got along great with the white people when they showed up, and relations were cordial between the 2 peoples for about 10 years, until the indians all started dying of Measles. Around 90% of the tribe was wiped out in a matter of just a few years.
The white folks weren’t effected at all, and the only thing the indians did that was different in any way, was their sweat-lodges, and the whites were afraid of catching whatever it was that was killing the indians, so all of the sweat-lodges were burned.
A virus that merely laid us low and gave some discomfort when we were toddlers, was deadly to people that had never experienced it before.
In the 1870’s the remnants of the decimated indian tribes all over this area held week-long 24/7 “Ghost Dances” trying to conjure back the dead, approx 5,000 indians that as luck would have it, were now immune to Measles and it would never be the killer it once was, but the damage was done.
This sort of real-life lesson is what “Guns, Germs & Steel” is all about…
SMlandlord…THANKS for the link to the Argentinian real estate, it might be the solution to all my problems (I can buy RE AND escape the Obamanation).
Bye bye. Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
Hey, I said the same thing yesterday! Except not the ‘a*ss” part, ’cause I’m too delicate and ladylike for cussing.
I just had a good idea. Maybe we all ought to start a little HBB pool to collect funds for a nice set of farewell suitcases for lainvestor to use! The caveat would be, she has to actually use them for a farewell. Oh, and let’s make sure they’re not too dark. hahahahahaha!
Count me in for $100 and three bottles of Jack Daniels. The Jack Daniels is for AFTER she’s gone.
Ditto.
I’ve got a few used Hefty bags I’d like to donate. Don’t mind the dog doo stains.
Funny thing: Alad moved all his wealth overseas in the form of gold to escape the impending socialism and voted for the man who would bring in socialism. Thanks Alad for helping usher it in.
B.i.L.A.bong,
The chess board has been completely reset and somehow you know the results of the next match?
One doesn’t have to spend much time on this blog to learn that you are 100% cocksure that you know the results of the next match. I guess you’ve got something in common with real estate! “It’s different” there where you are.
My crystal ball that I bought @ Wal*Mart tells me events 2 weeks before they happen, otherwise i’d be clueless just like you.
Is that all you have left?
A little character assassination vis a vis your desired hope of what I’m like…
I bow to you Emperor, the biggest hypocrite on this blog.
I base my low opinion of you based upon your words, not you.
Right back at ya!
Yeah, alad! Everything is YOUR fault, you big tree-hugging quote-spouting smarty-pants communist! And by ‘everything’, I mean ‘everything’. I’ve been looking for my mud boots for about 15 minutes, I can’t find them anywhere, and I blame YOU for that, too.
did you look on the back porch?
No. Why? Is that where you left them, after you stole them and went on a walk in the rain with Satan, so you could discuss your evil plans for the future in complete privacy, with Satan?
Ok, i’ll admit to stealing the gore-tex out of them, but that’s all you’ll get out of me.
Lad… I looked on the backporch….. I saw the moon in the sky so that makes me an astronaut!
I am purple but don’t expect me to gush with melty eyes when anybody mentions you know who. I will say that I must have the stockholm syndrome because at the o’ presser i listened to every word now that the sales pitches are completed. I hope he has a program to help renters because i will luv him then.
Renters constitute a minority of the population, and an even smaller minority share of likely voters. Why should politicians waste on second on renters’ concerns, when they can more fruitfully prattle on about resolving the ever-pressing crisis which is boring down on the 70 pct of U.S. households who are home owners?
So thirty percent are renters? Isn’t that a minority?
If stocks get downgraded then why can’t homes in certain areas get that same downgrade?
Hurry up and lower home prices and let us get back to day to day stuff.
I lost my keys yesterday on my beachwalk trying to destress. It didn’t really help that much.
I had my dog with me so I knew I would get the sympathy vote.
Maybe Obama will offer bailouts to renters on grounds that we are a discriminated and underrepresented low income minority group?
It amazes me how much power most people attribute to the chief puppet. We have the same congress critters friends, and the same machine. We are going to play the same game. JMO.
Maybe if I wish hard enough I’ll get a white pony that flies.
“So thirty percent are renters? Isn’t that a minority?”
No, 60 percent are renters. It’s just that 30 percent of those don’t know it.
40% own their house outright? I find that number a little hard to believe.
I know, I know, the conservative fogies who grew up during the Depression but still the number seems high.
In my estimation 0% truly own their houses. Property taxes are the rent so-called “homeowners” pay the government. “Homeowners” who don’t pay that rent are evicted sooner or later.
peace out. take some more close minded ‘pubs with you, please.
Wow, LAintestergirl, have you ever actually BEEN to Argentina ? I have. A wonderful, beautiful country. Also, racked with dictatorship after dictatorship, cyclic hyperinflation, and very expensive real estate in the nicer parts of B.A., where there is quite a bit of competition for it. A nice apartment will set you back about $ 295,000 in the Recoleta. A house in B.A. is about $ 600,000. Check out the listings on Viviun. I just did. You can google it. You have to have some mighty deep pockets. There are cheaper places also, but you don’t want to get marooned too deep in Patagonia. It’s the back of nowhere, and once you’re there, it’s kinda hard to get to a good hospital, etc. Don’t kid yourself. Mar del Plata is also very nice, kind of the Las Vegas/Nice of Argentina. Also expensive. I like the Argentines very much, though. A wonderful people. As far as buying up a bunch of real estate for speculation/investment, well, the Europeans have been doing it for quite awhile, and it’s run up pretty high.
The last domino falls.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/09/realestate/09cov.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
“Median prices in Harlem and East Harlem were down nearly 20 percent, to $440,000 at the end of this year’s third quarter, from $549,000 at the same time last year, according to data from Miller Samuel Inc., a real estate appraisal and consulting firm. Similarly, condominiums in Midtown East and Turtle Bay dropped 18.6 percent, to $1.197 million from $1.47 million; and condos in Midtown West and Hell’s Kitchen dropped 8 percent, to $1.01 million from $1.099 million.”
“Another sign that the market has slowed significantly is the marked drop in sales, decreasing 24 percent in Manhattan, to 2,654 in the three months that ended on Sept. 30, from 3,499 in the third quarter of 2007.”
“From everything we’re seeing out on the street, the fourth quarter report will slow prices down across the board in every neighborhood”
What is happening, according to this source, is that prices in less prestigious Manhattan neighborhoods are plunging as options open up in more prestigious Manhattan neighborhoods. That will happen to a far greater extent in competing urban areas nearby — Brooklyn, Queens, Hoboken.
Same thing in the suburbs. Price drops in Garden City and Scarsdale will lead to price plunges in Levittown and Hartsdale.
So much for it can’t happen here. Perhaps because NY is late to the adjustment it will happen faster.
“…that prices in less prestigious ______________ neighborhoods are plunging as options open up in more prestigious _____________ neighborhoods.”
Simply fill in the blanks with your city’s name.
What a great thing to read so early in the morning. I love reading about reality coming to my neighborhood.
The final straw in my ever wanting to buy anything came in the fall of ‘05. I called on some lofts in Harlem. The woman said how proud they were because they had been able to keep the prices affordable. I asked her what the prices were. She said, “they start in the low 800s”. I told her that unless she actually meant $800 then we didn’t need to talk any further. I put down the phone, told my wife, found this blog and my desire to ever own again disappeared like the proverbial flatulence in a place of worship.
Two years ago, almost to the date, I nearly punched a co-worker’s wife. It was over dinner. That whole idea about not hitting women is complete bulls–t. There should be times when it is obvious just how bulls—t that rule is. It doesn’t have to be a bunch but a kick to the shin might be appropriate. When you have some heinous bag of bones telling you how stupid you are for not buying in Manhattan in 2006 then you should be able to reach out and inflict some pain upon the source of such blather. Maybe it’s not gentlemanly but justice isn’t always gentlemanly.
Oh, I would not hit a woman. I’m not advocating domestic violence. Lighten up. But damn, why don’t women learn to keep their opinions to themselves once in a while, especially if you don’t know what the f— you are talking about? Men have to govern their speech, knowing they might get a broken jaw if they get too far afield. Women seldom have such limitations placed on their flow of nonsense. Women should act as if they could get hit. How many lives has such great, unchecked advice from women destroyed?
The other day I was at work and we were talking about the current dreary state of the economy. I now have co-worker’s that say, “you were right”. It is great. It’s like a scene from Rocky. So I was being told how great I was and feeling good about it. I turn to the co-worker whose wife deserved a good paddling, at the very least. I said, “but xxxxx is buying up all of this bargain real estate in Manhattan. Just last week xxxxx bought a bunch of empty buildings.” The look on his face was precious. It looked like he wanted to crawl under his desk. I reiterated that my advice to friends and family the past few years has been to pay off debts and save money. It has not been to commit financial suicide.
People like my co-worker and his wife deserve to be reminded of their stupidity every day. Otherwise they will keep spouting such nonsense and destroying more lives. New York City is going down and it is going down hard.
Wow, NYCityBoy, I love your anger, thx!
“But damn, why don’t women learn to keep their opinions to themselves once in a while, especially if you don’t know what the f— you are talking about?”
Hee! This very thing is the reason I can’t join my local quilting guild. Too much estrogen in one place at one time, I guess.
Your whole post was a great one, NYCityBoy.
Dude –
You need to lighten up. Learn to enjoy idiotic opinions while keeping a smile on your face and nodding agreeably. Your liver will thank you, in the long run.
Depends on the depth of the idiotic opinion, and it also depends on your personality.
It’s not easy taking BS with a smile when the BS is so simple as to be solved by a few easily checkable facts (hello, Wikipedia!) and a simple long division.
Every “opinion” is not equivalent.
‘ But damn, why don’t women learn to keep their opinions to themselves once in a while, especially if you don’t know what the f— you are talking about?’
Don’t talk so damn crazy. I think that’s a terrible idea, expecially for THIS woman. I mean, if I had to keep my opinions to myself, I’d explode! Whether or not I know what I’m talking about has nothing to do with it, either. In my firm opinion. (hahahahaha! That’s funny.)
Anyway, Mr. ‘I-Have-Rather-Strong-Opinions-At-All-Times’, I have noticed PLENTY of men who fail to ‘govern their speech’ and just natter on and on as witlessly as any woman-idjit ever managed to. I guess my point is, everyone deserves a good punch, usually, whether they have b00bs or not.
Too bad my little girly fists are so dainty and ineffective, or I could deliver the Fist of Opinion Justice on this coast, and you could do it on that coast, except you say you won’t beat up girls, so there’s that. Maybe instead you could hit goats? Goats have a lot of stupid and uninformed opinions, in my experience.
Oh, and I liked your post quite a bit, NYCity. Thanks.
“Maybe instead you could hit goats? Goats have a lot of stupid and uninformed opinions,”
Now you have seriously pi$$ed me off. Nobody badmouths goats and gets away with it. They are nature’s perfect creation. They do have a tendency to lie, though. So, you have a point there.
It’s not a goats fault, the lying. You see, they have this insatiable appetite, driven by an eternally rumbling iron stomach. If they do not feed this beast of a belly, it pains them in the greatest fashion causing them unimaginable misery. So they eat, and eat, and eat, and eat… When their caretakers come home to find that the siding on the house is missing, as well as the picnic chairs, the rope for the swing, and not only the dogs food but his dish as well, they get in REALLY BIG trouble. It’s then that they lie, like a rug. If not, their physical well being could be in jeopardy, and they learned long ago that they needed to protect that to survive. And survive they have, as very intelligent liars.
‘They are nature’s perfect creation. They do have a tendency to lie, though. So, you have a point there.’
Let me hurriedly explain. I’m not objecting to goats in general. In fact, just the other day I had a good discussion wherein it was pointed out that I, Olygal, actually have a lot in common with goats. For instance, we both have pretty eyes. Me and goats both like wearing funny little hats. Me and goats both enjoy climbing up on top of cars and shouting loudly. We both like chewing the bark off fruit trees.
And the list goes on. It was a pretty compelling list, and now I shall add to it several more items, thanks to you NYCity, and Bear:
–’they have this insatiable appetite, driven by an eternally rumbling iron stomach.’ (ain’t THAT the truth!)
and:
– they lie when it suits them.
I was thinking about something else but yeah, okay, I will go with the thing about eating.
A Great Goat story
A friend with a convertable TR6 who was staying with us took his date to look out point after a fine dinner. The temperature was cool so they decided to put up the top. He got out and pulled the top forward only to release a rain shower of goat crap from one of our best goats. I’m not sure if he got a second date, but I’m pretty sure that was the last date in the TR6.
GIrly fists could pack a wollop when used as a SLAP “snap out of it” and then the owner of said ‘girly fists’ would flutter eyelashes and smile girlishly ( am channeling Olygal).
Just suggesting~!
My goodness, desert dweller! It’s like you’re like my twin! Do you have pretty eyes and like to climb on cars and shout, too?
Men have to govern their speech, knowing they might get a broken jaw if they get too far afield. Women seldom have such limitations placed on their flow of nonsense. Women should act as if they could get hit.
Boys learn this on the playground pretty early, they learn how to read other peoples’ limits and how not to go past them unless they’re looking to fight.
Girls don’t learn this (at least not about boys), so they keep needling and needling. So when, in later life, they push a man too far, they don’t know it until they’re on the way to the emergency room or the morgue.
But yeah, men _and_ women in NY need a clue-by-four across the nose to snap them out of the Real Estate lotus eating…
If you can’t stand what people are saying walk away. There is no excuse for hitting a woman, a man, or child because your angry or disagree with someone’s opinion.
Have another bowl of granola.
Sorry, don’t like the cr*p. Love my steak, bacon, eggs, etc. in the morning.
“If you can’t stand what people are saying, walk away.”
You must be single. This doesn’t work for married guys. She follows you, still bitching about what she was bitching about previously, plus you have given her something new to bitch about; how “insensitive” and “uncommunicative” you are.
You would NOT BELIEVE some of the sh#t that my ex said to me prior to my packing up and leaving. If I had said that stuff to some random guy in a bar, I can 100% guarantee you fists would start flying.
Never laid a finger on her, just packed and left. Didn’t matter. Didn’t keep her from accusing me of “physical and emotional abuse”. Fortunately, my credibility far exceeded hers.
Actually, your words are a good suggestion. The trouble is, guys don’t walk away SOON ENOUGH, and for the right reason. You’ve got to leave before you get physical in ANY WAY, even punching a door or wall.
The cops position now is if their is ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL of physical violence, the guy (usually) is getting charged with domestic violence. They would rather screw a million guys, rather than risk ONE woman becoming a “victim”.
Word to the wise #2- NEVER, EVER move in with her, if you are not married. If you live with her, it’s “domestic violence”……if you don’t, you can only be charged with assault.
This is a freakin’ depressing post.
I hope you meet some nice girl, who isn’t a lunatic. And I also hope you aren’t a lunatic either. Ummm, and that everyone gets a darling free kitty in the mail, plus some candy.
Okay, I’m gonna go drink beer now. I mean, more beer.
Mmmmmmm, beer.
You must be single. This doesn’t work for married guys. She follows you, still bitching about what she was bitching about previously, plus you have given her something new to bitch about; how “insensitive” and “uncommunicative” you are.
————————-
You’ll probably hate me for saying this, but she would not need to “needle” or follow you if you listened to her in the first place and really tried to empathize with her. (”Listen to” in the literal sense, not “obey.”)
So many marriages fail because the two spouses behave like adversaries instead of lifelong partners who work together to achieve the best outcome for their relationship and their family.
A successful marriage is all about consideration and empathy, IMHO.
What I find interesting about this rant is that over the last few years I know I have come very close to being struck by men who disagreed with my opinions. You have never seen a man get so angry as to have a mere woman tell him that real estate is ridiculously overpriced, that a 40% reduction is coming and that the magical sales that are making him several hundred thousand a year are going to end.
I have been spat on (inadvertently) as men screamed in my face about what a stupid bitch I was, their hands clenched at their sides as they struggled not to slap this fanatical communist (y’all know I’m not) who would dare to question their ability to make easy money. I even broke up with one mortgage broker I went on a few dates with because my opinions caused such an abusive and emotional melt-down that I no longer felt safe being around him. (Ok, more that he was a mortgage broker and not a very bright one at that.)
Both sexes can be stupid and abusive when defending a wrong (or even a right) position. I was usually able to shake off these bad encounters because I believe that people get far more emotional and unable to reason logically when a part of their subconscious tells them they are wrong. The more I make a man scream (well, in an argument) the more secure I tend to be in my logic. The same is true of females arguing with females too but on a much smaller scale. For some reason, men seem to see it as a denial of their manhood when a woman disagrees with him. (And I’ll acknowledge a lot of women natter at men endlessly with their point of view hoping to change his mind and “win.”) It shouldn’t be this way - both sexes have brains and opinions and should be allowed to use them.
Lots of people missed the bubble - many because it served their pocketbook to do so. But Ben estimates that over half the posters on this blog are female and most of us have talked about trying to talk husbands, boyfriends, male (and female) friends out of participating in the bubble in spite of their arguments for buying immediately. To tell all of us to “learn to keep their opinions to themselves once in a while” since most of us have dealt with lots of people over the last few years who believed “you don’t know what the f— you are talking about” would mean that a large portion of the people spreading the word about this bubble would have been silenced.
Thanks to everyone for all of this talk about couples and arguments. I’m feeling very happy about being single again.
Me too Bantering Bear. I enjoy being single again also.
I’d feel more happy it if I was getting “lucky” once in a while.
Well said, SD RE Bear!
“Hell’s Kitchen dropped 8 percent, to $1.01 million” A million bucks to live in Hell!
But its now an UPSCALE nabe…come on we need a name change to Wussie’s Kitchen
No, no, it is now called Clinton West. What a sterile, antiseptic piece of crap name. I would much rather live in a place called Hell’s Kitchen than some same-division called Clinton West. They should find the person that came up with the name Clinton West and flog him with an electrical cord in a public square. It would make great use of Washington Square Park.
Why electrical cord?
Unless you mean a plugged in electrical cord with a bare end in which case I concur.
evidently you’ve never been hit with an electrical cord
Exactly!
OK, fair enough, but isn’t a bullwhip just superior?
no
I can name a fair list of things that are less effective…
Good pine kindling, the kind that lights right off just from a match, is pretty close and might be superior.
But an electrical cord is a pretty good choice.
Hmmm. Just what I want. A $ 540,000 condo in Harlem. It can’t have improved that much since my liberal parents drove us through it, pulling our housetrailer, in the 1960’s, on a family signt-seeing trip to NYC. That was intersting, especially with all of the little kids yelling, ” Look, a house on wheels ” as we went by.
I was wondering why the largest holding in a mutual fund I own had been increasing it`s ownership of GE for the last couple of months now up to almost 5% , then I realized that GE is the parent company of NBC and MSNBC and they would be looked at very favorably in the incoming HB administration .
I am wondering what you hope to get from owning a mutual fund that invests in stocks.
I started investing in June 02 ITHAX monthly automatic withdrawals , sold 75% of my position inJan. 05 , used some of the money to fix up my house of 20 years wich I sold in October 05 , made money on the mutual fund made a killing on the house. Continued the monthly purchase of the fund and sold another 75% of it in July 07 made more money. I continue to buy monthly automatically , lately I am getting a lot more shares every month , which is what happened the first time , I only made money when it went way down and then came back up. No IRA , no 401k , just A shares . I pay fees up front and taxes on what I make. I am not as smart as you but right now I am 95% cash , 5% in this mutual fund and 0% realestate , so far that is how I have made money in a mutual fund that invests in stocks.
We differ by only 5%.
Why would choose a fund with a 5% front-end load?
I look at that as throwing money away…
Out of $500.00 a month they get $27.50 to pick stocks, take care of my statements and tax records, answer any questions I have and handle purchases and redemption’s. The fund manager has done well with the portfolio and I have done well accumulating and selling at a profit. When it comes to the front -end load like I said I pay up front , what is mine is mine and I don`t mind paying them 15% less than I tip a waitress to take care of all of that.
oops last 75% july 08
By E. SCOTT RECKARD
Los Angeles Times
Sunday, November 09, 2008
The government’s Hope for Homeowners plan launched Oct. 1 was initially projected to help over the next three years as many as 400,000 struggling borrowers avert foreclosure.
But fewer than 100 homeowners applied to the program in October, and the Federal Housing Administration now projects that just 13,300 will be helped in its first year. An FHA official told a mortgage industry conference recently that one large lender had reported that in a group of 23,000 troubled borrowers only 1,200 would be eligible for the program.
So, that’s more evdience that FRAUD was freakin’ everywhere, right?
Yeap
‘But fewer than 100 homeowners applied to the program in October, and the Federal Housing Administration now projects that just 13,300 will be helped in its first year’.
So what will they do next? Force people to be ’saved’?
Faith-based bailouts?
“They didn’t even list us overdue fir a week. Very first light, chief, sharks came cruising, so we formed ourselves into tight groups… you know, kind of like old squares in a battle like you see in a calendar, like the battle of Waterloo, and the idea was, shark comes to the nearest man and then you start pounding and hollering and screaming. Sometimes the shark goes, sometimes he wouldn’t go away… I don’t know how many sharks. Maybe a thousand, I don’t know how many men, they averaged six an hour…
Noon the fifth day, Mr Hooper, a Lockheed Ventura saw us, he swung in low… and three hours later a big fat PBY comes down, starts to pick us up…
So, eleven hundred men went into the water, three hundred and sixteen men come out and the sharks took the rest, June 29th 1945. Anyway, we delivered the bomb.”
Being saved is overrated
Thanks jeff for the positive proof that none of these home owner bailouts will ever work. I am down right giddy now.
From what I understand, the H4H program is voluntary…the lender has to agree with it, as do any second-lien holders (HELOCs, seconds, etc.).
During a Congressional hearing when they were discussing this with a panel of large lenders, the lenders said this program would be their “last resort” as they would be required to take a loss on the principal amount (and most seconds would likely be wiped out, BTW).
The lenders would still rather tinker with interest rates and loan duration instead of write-down the principal amount due.
So, not sure if it’s the borrowers or the lenders who are dragging their feet.
On the road…
It was somewhere near Merced cruising northbound, when the pungent smell of onions penetrated our jalopy and didn’t let up till the outskirts of Galt.
We came upon Stockton in the dark, and a good many houses melted into the nightscape foreclosed from view.
The orgy of overbuild seemed to end in the El Dorado Hills, where my better half noticed that there were no trees as far as the eye could see in this newer cookie-cutter suburbania, pesky obstacles that must have been taken out to allow easier parking, no doubt.
South Lake Tahoe seemed a little slow business-wise, and we don’t get up there all that often and it’s been awhile. Right at stateline, across from Harvey’s is a big pit with rebar exposed with a fence around it. Some big condo or hotel project perhaps? I doubt this one gets finished…
When did Caesar’s Tahoe turn into the Montbleu?
Bishop, Ca. has put on quite a few corporate pounds, and has lost a lot of it’s charm, sad to say.
The rest of the little towns past Bishop are all fine and dandy and refuse to grow up…
The Trader Joe’s in Bakersfield, like the Trader Joe’s in Fresno, is about the only thing that makes hungry to visit places you’d otherwise avoid like the plague.
Upon our return to the land of the calicos, we received 11 minutes of disdain from them, followed by hours of “don’t ever leave us again” love.
It’s all good…
how was Bridgeport? talk about remote
Bridgeport’s a cool little speed-trap of a town with old buildings and a lot of character.
There’s a way cool natural hot springs just a few miles from it, where 105 degree waterfall tinkles on your head as you’re seated in the grotto down below…
Aladinsane, As I said last year ‘The gift that keeps on giving’. Just the right tone for a beautiful Sunday morning. Your description of your trip makes me think of Steinbeck and maybe a trip to the library is in order. Thanks.
Nicely written, Lad. Thanks!
There’s that word again, “hyperinflation.”
blogs.ft.com/wolfforum/2008/10/it-can-be-worse-than-the-great-depression/
Now, major states, such as Italy, have more than 100 percent of GDP in public debt even before the crisis, rendering major state bankruptcies a real danger. Fiscal and monetary stimulation are needed and deflation must be avoided, but currently fiscal considerations are disregarded altogether, which is a recipe for disaster. State default can easily lead to hyperinflation, which is far worse than deflation
Goodbye 401-k ??
The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.
Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Education and Labor, in prepared remarks for the hearing on “The Impact of the Financial Crisis on Workers’ Retirement Security,” blamed Wall Street for the financial crisis and said his committee will “strengthen and protect Americans’ 401(k)s, pensions, and other retirement plans” and the “Democratic Congress will continue to conduct this much-needed oversight on behalf of the American people.”
http://www.carolinajournal.com/articles/display_story.html?id=5081
Jeebus Christmas, if they are saying they are going to “protect” my accounts then I really become nervous. This all looks like bullsh-t but I don’t put anything past these villains. I am pretty certain that their pensions will not be affected by their actions. I am not an Obama hater but I still fiercely mistrust the Dems. I mistrust the Repubs, too. I practice my own Fairness Doctrine.
elim future tax break for traditional 401k,fine but confiscate???
“elim future tax break for traditional 401k,fine”
I guess you enjoy watching the stock market crater? Not that there is anything wrong with that…
Actually I have enjoyed it, so far. It seemed like quite a few people here at HBB have been getting a kick out of it. I’ve been expecting something like this anyway, since it was obvious that the market had been bouyed by 401k money for a long time now. Seems like a helluva way to make a market. Especially with all these gargantuan equity funds all holding the same blue chip stocks.
Anyway, I agree that Congress can legally eliminate the tax break if they want to. But confiscating or seizing is something else again, yes? The notion blows me away but it did happen in Argentina. This woman’s proposal is to replace with GRA’s but I couldn’t get through the whole PDF to see if she thought it should be mandatory.
This is just her plan, but I’m surprised it’s still being kicked around. Maybe it’s because so many others are as shocked as I am.
I do (and so does combie) but I bet you we are strange like that.
When it craters and you short it, clap your hands CLAP CLAP
When it craters and you short it, clap your hands CLAP CLAP
When it craters and you short it, and you really want to show it
When it craters and you short it, clap your hands CLAP CLAP
“This is just her plan, but I’m surprised it’s still being kicked around. Maybe it’s because so many others are as shocked as I am.”
Yes, Congress would never ok anything like this if the people opposed it. It’s not like this group would ever ignore constituent contacts that were 100 to one opposed to some big government program like a massive bailout. Of course they would listen to the people who put them into office. Thank goodness we don’t have a corrupt government that is beholden to special interests over the needs and desires of the voters. They’ll protect our 401(k) money and not try to grab it for their own agenda. Don’t you feel better now?
LOL. Well, no one benefits from confiscation, if the intent is to put into govt bonds at 3%. Oh, wait..
“…and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.”
Oh goody! The first proposed New Deal wealth confiscation scheme under the new regime!!! Look forward to lots more of these kind of hairbrained wealth confiscation proposals going forward, now that the Democrats are running the political asylum.
“harebrained” (maybe hairbrained, as well…)
BTW, if this kind of proposal gains traction, there is no telling to what depths the stock market may correct over the next few months.
I actually like ‘hairbrained’ a lot more. I may just spell it that way from now on.
I heard on the radio yesterday (not Brinker) the 401K confiscation rumor was started on the internet. Someone who was in on the hearing in Congess, said it was a rumor. TPTB are concerned that the 401K’s failed for most of the participants, and 1 out of 4 who could participate didn’t.
We’ve got some hefty off balance sheet problems coming our way. I regret not saving more myself.
Lets be clear how SS works. Govt spends that money for whatever it wants, and worries about paying SS obligations as they arrive.
The govt clearly needs money, so if something like this is implemented, they will swear the money is safe. They will create a special “fund” just for that money (having things in their own “fund” seems to make people feel better). Just like they do with SS now. They will then raid that fund and replace it with promises to pay later, just like SS. Govt accounting standards let them mainly keep this stuff off the books, or at least make it convoluted to the point where it’s not obvious what is going on.
What’s the best bait to use when fishin’ for TARPon?
Wow, this sounds suspiciously like the Wall Street school that swim around the Long Island sound…
‘Tarpons are large coastal fish prized by anglers. They grow up to 8 feet (2.4 m) in length and sometimes weigh 200 pounds.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarpon
Irresponsible Financial Lure.
Early Broken Bank gets the Worm.
“What’s the best bait to use when fishin’ for TARPon?”
There is no shortage of worms and small snakes so I don’t think finding adequate bait should be much of a problem.
Best bait: minnIOUs
Years ago there was an Outer Limits or Twilight Zone story called, To Serve Man. Aliens that look like oversized men arrive on Earth, and share their advanced knowledge bound in a special book as a type of Thanksgiving gift. The advanced aliens provide luxury and plenty, wiping out disease and famine. Eventually someone deciphers the book’s true meaning, to serve man is a cookbook. The meaning of this parable came to me in my sleep; a most remarkable author!
It was The Twilight Zone. What do you take as the meaning of this story?
I assume you are alluding to current times.
The notion that anyone could fatten-up on leverage and refinance it forever; admission to the game was easy with a zero down mortgage, and six months later a HELOC. In the end the sheeple realize they’re chow.
“In the end the sheeple realize they’re chow.”
In the end, the sheeple become debt slaves to the USSA Corporation/Government. As long as the death was quick and as painless as possible, I’d prefer to become someone’s chow.
PortlandHomedebtor
I’ve been saying for years is that the only reason why the ultra-welthy keep what’s left of the middle class around is so that we can buy their corporate crap which is manufactured in Mexico and programmed in India and melamine-poisoned in China and then imported for us to consume. I have quit buying their crap ( ever been to Idia- now that’s some Swedish crap there ) some years ago, and most of the time, if I buy it, it’s used. Best revenge I ever thought up.
Sorry - Idia = Ikea - wow mispositioned fingers on keyboard - oh well
I love that episode,
That episode was based on a short story by Damon Knight, published in 1951. I liked the short story better, although I am/was a TZ fan.
Mini nuclear plants to power 20,000 homes…Nuclear power plants smaller than a garden shed and able to power 20,000 homes will be on sale within five years, say scientists at Los Alamos, the US government laboratory which developed the first atomic bomb.
The miniature reactors will be factory-sealed, contain no weapons-grade material, have no moving parts and will be nearly impossible to steal because they will be encased in concrete and buried underground.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/nov/09/miniature-nuclear-reactors-los-alamos
“I don’t know; I think so. You know of course though he’s right about the 9000 series having a perfect operational record. They do.”
Forty years ago one could purchase a “hand-held calculator” for $400. Within a decade they were being given away as promotional gifts.
Personal LENRs are coming. Within fifteen years, all our household energy needs will be available in a sealed, mini-refrigerator-sized box–available for $400.
No more petrofuels. Invest accordingly.
Within fifteen years, all our household energy needs will be available in a sealed, mini-refrigerator-sized box–available for $400.
No more petrofuels. Invest accordingly. Fat. Chance.
Haven’t heard of what’s to be done with the spent fuel. I’ll have to ask around.
I think i kept one at my moms house had a row of TUBES with 0-9 numbers inside them which lit up……and it worked last time i used it… great collectors item
Minni Nuke: Perfect for Galt’s Gulch
‘Aliens that look like oversized men arrive on Earth’
Paulson for sure, but Bernanke?
Rosie O’Donnell?
How long will it be before people start asking for student loan bailouts?
You can ask for anything you like. What’s the chance that you will get it?
The U.S. financial sector, once the emblem of our economic success, has failed us. Financial markets are supposed to allocate capital and manage risk; instead, they squandered capital and created risk. Even more galling, the banks’ chiefs raked in private rewards totally out of whack with what scant good they were doing for the wider society.
WaPo: Joseph Stiglitz — More Pain to Come Even if He’s Perfrect
Already, the banks have been talking about using taxpayers’ money for dividends, bonuses and acquiring other banks, rather than doing more lending, which was clearly what Congress had in mind for the $700 billion. U.S. taxpayers got a raw deal, compared to the terms won by other governments (such as Great Britain) or by the legendary investor Warren Buffett, who provided capital to the best capitalized investment bank, Paulson’s own Goldman Sachs. Want further proof that Washington got a lousy deal? Look at how the markets reacted. The share prices of the bailed-out banks shot up, showing that investors expected net profits to rise substantially.
WaPo: Joseph Stiglitz — More Pain to Come Even if He’s Perfrect
Just as righty-tighty USA went way liberal, way liberal New Zealand just went righty-tighty…
====================================================
Prime Minister-elect John Key will meet Act and United Future allies today to form a Government as speedily as possible with the hope that his Cabinet can be sworn in within a week.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-election-2008/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501799&objectid=10542062
I am watching Meet the Press right now. We are really ruled by idiots. They threw out a quote from Charlie Rangel. Good lord. These people don’t have a clue. They truly believe that we can bailout this credit addicted economy by borrowing more money, even if that money doesn’t exist. Buy a shovel and remember where you buried your money.
While people like the HBBers, Nouriel Roubini, etc. are lableled fringe-element “chicken littles”.
The only fringer who gets any respect is Meredith Whitney.
We’re “fringers” because we’re not the “masters of the universe.”
And what a masterly job they’ve done!
Challenges on the horizon
Plenty of doubt that state, city can deal effectively with fiscal mess
By Chris Reed
November 9, 2008
…
The global financial crisis has sent government revenue plunging and left already underfunded public employee pension funds in even worse straits. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger and Mayor Jerry Sanders – both elected to clean up fiscal messes – instead are likely to leave office in grim circumstances.
And that may be a best-case scenario. There are plenty of reasons to doubt whether state and city leaders are up to the challenges they face.
It is so shocking that outsiders like Ventura and Schwarzenegger didn’t resolve all of society’s problems. I thought steroids would have made them invulnerable to failure. Why, oh why, if we are going to elect outsiders and mavericks don’t we elect smart outsiders and mavericks? I’ve been watching George Carlin this morning. I would have voted for him for Governor of Minnesota. Ventura? No way!
Superhero governors to the rescue!!!
Ha ha!
I’ll keep you guys up to date about what Sarah Palin is up to in the future…she got back to Alaska this week to a much more polarized legislature, compared to when she left.
Yeah, Dems want to marginalize Paulin by doing a Dan Quayle on her; wont stick. Your newchimp doesnt know how many states in the good old USA. The newold VP thinks JOBS is a 3 letter word. We’ll have plenty to talk about in the next 4 years, I’m sure.
“This sort of rhetorical overlap is common among union-backed council members. Like union leaders, Councilwoman-elect Sherri Lightner has suggested the city’s problems paying its pension obligations are overblown, even as the mayor sets aside a staggering $161 million this fiscal year to make up for past underpayments.”
I wonder whether the good Councilwoman-elect addressed recent reports that the SD city pension fund’s assets dropped from over $5 bn to under $3 bn in the past year — a 40+ pct drop (and $2+ bn increase in unfunded pension obligations)? I thought not…
Remember when HBBers were griping about the public servants and their “safe” jobs and perks?
Only a couple of us seemed to understand what was coming our way WRT municipal services.
BIG problems coming, IMHO.
Silver lining of the bailout: It has stimulated some wonderful descriptive writing to describe the gargantuan scale of what has transpired.
DEAN CALBREATH
U.S. isn’t even close to rescuing the economy
November 9, 2008
…
It’s hard for nonmathematicians to grasp exactly how much money $1.5 trillion is. So here’s a handy illustration, courtesy of Washington Post columnist Bob Herbert.
Imagine a 6-inch stack of bills worth $1 million. (To keep the stack so small, most of those bills would have to be $500s or $1,000s, which were discontinued in 1969.) To get to $1 billion, that stack would have to be 500 feet high – close to three times as tall as San Diego’s Mormon Temple. To get to $1.5 trillion, the stack would stretch more than 140 miles, only slightly less than the distance from downtown La Mesa to the Arizona border.
That’s how much money we’ve already sunk into the financial system in “rescue loans” and bailout packages. So far. And even though much of that money will eventually be repaid – in theory, at least – for the time being it’s a gaping hole in the federal budget.
So much economic propaganda, so little time to debunk it all.
A capital gains tax elimination to long-term real estate investors is not a “free market solution”, but rather yet another proposal to subsidize real estate investors at the expense of the rest of us. How is it again that the public interest would be served by throwing still more public monies down the REIC rat hole?
“Right now, with foreclosures still on the rise, there’s nothing stable about the housing market. Real estate broker Bob Schwartz, for instance, estimates that the median San Diego home price could drop an additional 20 percent to 30 percent in 2009, based on the number of adjustable rate mortgages whose payments are about to adjust upward.
Even if home prices drop only an additional 10 percent, as less-pessimistic observers predict, that is an incredible disincentive for risk-averse banks, no matter how much money they’re getting from the feds.
…
Schwartz suggests a free-market method of bringing stability to the housing market: remove the capital gains tax for investors who buy homes and keep them longer than five years. Schwartz said that even if the market continues to slump, that could be enough to bring in investors – including himself – who have an eye on long-term profits.”
I am generally not in favor of any long term capital gains tax, for the following reason: Much of the “capital gain” you pay taxes on is not a gain at all, but a price adjustment due to inflation.
Now if such a tax were to be indexed to a *realistic* inflation index, that would be a different discussion.
Agree, sm LL, and something many people really don’t understand.
The dollars that bought that $40K house in the early seventies is very different from the dollar of today.
A bailout of GM is a gift to Republican causes. Go for it, moonbats!!!
COMMON SENSE
The case for not giving GM, Chrysler a hand
By James B. Stewart
SMARTMONEY
November 9, 2008
Here’s a hot potato for the new commander in chief: Having just scored $25 billion in low-cost federal loans to develop fuel-efficient vehicles, General Motors and Chrysler are back, hat in hand, looking for more billions to assist their proposed merger. President Bush decided to pass on this one, leaving it to the new administration. Can you blame him?
The biggest potential political problem here has nothing to do with Detroit and everything to do with Wall Street – specifically Cerberus, a private-equity firm based in New York.
Bush’s former Treasury secretary, John Snow, is chairman; former Vice President Dan Quayle has been a prominent spokesman; and the firm’s chief executive, Stephen Feinberg, gives generously to Republican causes.
“Bush’s former Treasury secretary, John Snow, is chairman; former Vice President Dan Quayle has been a prominent spokesman;”
How could a company with somebody as intelligent as Dan Quayle as their spokesman find themselves in trouble? Oh, f–k are we f–ked.
Bush wanted Snow out when Snow didn’t want to go along with more tax cuts. Asked to tell the press he was leaving for personal reasons. Snow said he wouldn’t lie. Bush never forgets a grudge. Cerberus will not get a deal from the Bush administration.
WALL STREET
In such volatile times, maybe look at parking your portfolio in cash
By Mark Hulbert
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
November 9, 2008
Critics of market timing argue that it’s hard, if not impossible, to consistently beat a buy-and-hold approach by jumping back and forth between stocks and cash.
But new research raises the tantalizing possibility that you can do as well as the overall market – with much less risk – by parking your portfolio in the safety of cash during times such as these, when market volatility spikes higher.
parking your portfolio in the safety of cash Where was he in August 2007 when taking that advice would have done people some good?
Told ya.
You’ll love this, combotechie:
Word has it that the “legendary” Steve A. Cohen after losing 18% this year has screamed at his traders to go all in on cash.
Link.
We have it on very good authority that on Wednesday in Stamford, Steve Cohen told his trading floor, “You’re all idiots. We’re going to cash. I’ll see you in January.” They are not closing down; just sitting out the bull s*it. No follow-up joke. Because it’s apparently true.
Cramer has recently also found ursine religion.
Mad Money Recap
Cramer’s ‘Mad Money’ Recap: Nov. 6
11/06/08 - 08:08 PM EST
“No one wants to be more bullish about the markets than me,” Jim Cramer told viewers at the start of his “Mad Money” TV show Thursday.
But after another triple-digit slide in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, Cramer said he just can’t find a catalyst to take the markets higher.
What about the contrarian analysis?
If Cramer is bearish, isn’t that like a bell ringing at the bottom?
I think it needs a couple years for the perception to settle in. I can remember how it was in 1982. I was young and penniless, but for some reason I used to watch Wall St Week on PBS, and things had been bad so long, everyone so depressed about the market, that I knew it was the time. Ohhh if only…
This is the kind of thing that has been making the markets fall the past few weeks/months. More and more I think that mid 8000s is the low for a while. Whenever somebody big or a hedge fund or whatever unwinds, the market seems to sink to around this level. After the unwind, the market jumps right back up. We need a few hedge funds to unwind at the same time that trigger something major so we get into a positive feedback loop for this thing to go much lower. When might that happen?
I base this idea on the fact that for every big 2 day or so market tank, I’ve heard right beforehand that there’s a hedge fund about to unwind. After every 2 day or so market tank, there seems to be a market jump. It also helps that the human brain is great at seeing patterns in complete randomness.
100’s of companies are laying off employees. Earnings are going down. This is just the beginning of the bottom, not the end of the bottom.
Can the government confiscate cash or are t-bills already the new hookers for the treasury pimps?
Wall Street Journal
* ENCORE
* NOVEMBER 9, 2008
Tax Rule Slams Hard-Hit IRAs, 401(k)s
By TOM LAURICELLA
In the past month, Congress and the Bush administration have worked feverishly to help Wall Street.
Now millions of older adults are seeking last-minute help with a problem that directly affects Main Street: required withdrawals from retirement accounts.
I have little sympathy for the millions of older adults who ignored the scheduled-decades-ahead-of-time-required withdrawals from tax-deferred retirement accounts.
They can take the required disbursements “in kind”, meaning take out stock at its current market value. Softens the blow a bit.
Me, I converted all of my IRAs to Roths, which are not affected by these rules. I was fortunate to have a very low AGI in the year when I did it, so the tax hit of the conversion was not too bad.
If anyone has traditional IRAs or 401Ks, and can avoid W2 income for a year or two, I recommend doing the conversion and taking the tax hit now. Of course you should consult with your tax adviser before taking advice from an anonymous source on the intertubes.
Wall Street Journal
* NOVEMBER 8, 2008, 8:00 P.M. ET
World Bank Sees Crisis Crimping Trade
By JEFF FICK and ALASTAIR STEWART
SAO PAULO — The ongoing financial crisis will likely lead to a decline in global trade for the first time in 27 years, World Bank President Robert Zoellick said Saturday.
According to Mr. Zoellick, the onset of the crisis caused a “stunning” decline in global trade. “And we believe that you could find in 2009 that you could have an actual decline in world trade, which would be the first time since 1982,” Mr. Zoellick said.
There comes that 1982 one more time.
Wonder why. Hmmmmmmmm….
Back when I used to tell people that it could theoretically unwind to 1982 levels, they absolutely thought I was nuts. NOBODY thought there would be any possibility, whatsoever, that we could see financial movements like that.
Though I truly do hope it doesn’t happen (talk about a Great Depression!), one should always plan for the worst.
Does anyone have good information on when home prices bottomed out after 1982? I am starting to think that housing bust would be a better reference point than the early-90s episode, given how many comparisons to the early-80s are coming to the fore.
Housing prices will be at the definite lowest point when we reach 1984 pricing, which is double-plus-good.
I say 1983 but I refuse to quibble over the last few thousand dollars.
I did an REO in 83′ so I think P. Kat is correct.
Wall Street Journal
* NOVEMBER 8, 2008
Japan Worries It Faces the Return of Deflation
As Global Recession Spurs Fear of a Free Fall in Prices That Knocks Economies Flat, Tokyo Braces for Its Own Sequel
By YUKA HAYASHI
TOKYO — The faltering global economy is prompting worries about deflation. Japan, which had to conquer the problem of widespread falling prices more than three years ago, could be the first to face it again.
(Japan defeated deflation years ago, when everything, including these shoes, seemed to be on sale. But deflation might need to be defeated again.)
Inflation in Japan, which had picked up since early this year, was caused mainly by higher oil and commodity prices, not because of strong demand in a growing economy. Now that those prices are falling sharply, inflation is easing. Economists say consumer prices may stop rising over the next several months, and may start falling sometime next summer.
Reading that dry bulk shipment charter prices have dropped by 98 pct off peak leads me to believe the credit tsunami metaphor may not be an adequate description of the situation at hand. I am leaning towards “collapsed super nova” as a more apt geophysical analogy.
I’m not yet fully understanding the implications of that. FPSS has compared it to smoot-hawley. I’m familiar with SH, but only in a policy sense, I don’t have any historical knowledge of what the effects were.
One thing, it seems to me that this condition will likely resolve itself faster than politics typically responds to bad policy…so that’s something I guess.
SH pretty much stopped all global trade in it’s tracks due to heavy tariffs back in the day, while Baltic Dry has pretty much stopped all global trade due to heavy losses to be incurred, should any ships set sail…
Let’s compare it to airline fares, shall we?
Last year an economy ticket LAX-NY cost around $600.
Now it costs $17, and the airlines are in the process of mothballing their fleet in Mojave, Ca., as they would lose big money on each and every flight, if they kept their regular transit schedule going.
$17? I don’t think $17 gets you very far on Greyhound these days.
aladin’s point taken. Awesome.
I’m feeling Neroish.
Since the R-can stimulus of $1t+ or so has not worked, why not go for something much bigger, badder and brash?
Financial Times
Obama set to push ‘big bang’ reform package
By Edward Luce in ‘Washington
Published: November 9 2008 19:17 | Last updated: November 9 2008 19:17
US President-elect Barack Obama intends to push a comprehensive programme of social and economic reform beyond an immediate emergency stimulus package, Rahm Emanuel, the next White House chief of staff, indicated on Sunday.
Mr Emanuel brushed aside concerns that an Obama administration would risk taking on too much when it takes office in January. He said Mr Obama saw the financial meltdown as an historic opportunity to deliver the large-scale investments that Democrats had promised for years.
FYI, the author is probably writing under a nom de plume, as it seems unlikely the writer on such a topic would coincidentally share the name of the original dismal scientist.
The Baltic Dry Index Revisited
By: Thomas Malthus
Saturday, November 08, 2008 1:46 PM
Sectors: Finance
I have been receiving a significant amount of email regarding an old entry I wrote back in March 2008 regarding the Baltic Dry Index (BDI). Back in March the BDI was recovering for an interim low it experienced in January on fears of a global economic slowdown, however, since then the situation has become far worse. The BDI is now trading at levels not seen since 2001.
To help put this into perspective a recent article by “The Independent” noted that in the beginning of June the total cost of a shipment of coal from Brazil to China would have totaled USD15mn per voyage compared to USD1.5mn currently. At the same time, the article noted that the daily cost of chartering a capsize bulk carrier during this cycle’s peak amounted to USD234.0K vs. USD5.6K presently. This is a drop of around 98%!
At least, he didn’t predict fire and brimstone raining down.
The reasoning and conclusion seem eminently judicious.
I read this as meaning that shipping is now cheap, due to an oversupply of ships. So that may create some opportunities to ship things cheaply, very unlike the effects of Smoot Hawley on international trade.
Someone has to be optimistic around here.
Barkeep:
I’ll have Baltic-Dry Martini, on the rocks…
Shaken not stirred?
One of the houses I’m keeping my eye on has dipped below $200K (currently at $199,900). It started in the upper $200s. Been on the market the better part of 2008. I haven’t looked at it so I don’t know if the condition is an issue, but nothing seems to be moving around here so I kind of think it’s just a matter of sellers getting real (it’s been sitting empty). Maybe it’s time for me to take a peek at it… Could be worth $160K
here’s a funny one…
So a few fortnights ago on a Tuesday, all the AIG stock existent could have been purchased for around $8 Billion @ prevailing market values, so Henry Paulson decided the next day, that we the taxpayers should buy 79.9% of AIG for $85 Billion (later increased in total to $122 Billion) and now AIG wants a bunch more Billions from us.
It’s all the debt, silly!
They’re leveraged. The stock is already worthless.
Meet me down on Water Street. We will break a few of their windows. It will be fun. We paid for the f–ing windows. We will create jobs in the process.
A direct approach. Metaphorically apt.
I like it.
I am going to take a huge gamble with my family’s well being that we will have either a more extreme form of inflation than we have known recently (circa 1970s) or that student loans will be crammed down by the government.
Next year I will start a part time law program at a local state school. It is not a good law school or a bad law school; nor is it a cheap law school. My estimates, including books and other costs, is approximately $80,000 for four years. In addition, I will be working close to full time during that period. I will be expected to work a average of 40 hours a week but, as my work is generally project oriented, I will be able to reduce that load to 30 hours per week for certain periods. I estimate I will need to devote 25 hours to class and study per week.
At 7% interest and a payoff in 15 years, my monthy nut comes to about $725 after taxes. I expect that will be $1050 with taxes. When I finish the degree, I will be in my late thirties, bi-lingual, and with 7 plus years as a paralegal in a small firm (more and varied experience). In other words, I expect my chances at finding employment, given my skills and experience, will be better then some of the competition.
My hope is that inflation, especially wage inflation much farther down the line, will make this debt more manageable. Either that or a percentage of federal student loans are forgiven.
Any thoughts?
Great. Another f—ing lawyer. No offense but I’m rooting against you.
My thoughts are that your family is fortunate indeed to have a person of your courage and caliber at the helm. Best of luck in your endeavor!
A lot depends on your age and your ability to study with noise and distractions and when you’re tired, Peterpaul. With 40 hours plus per week employment, a family, etc., I would say you’re better off not going to back to school, digging out that $ 725 per month in your budget and putting it into some kind of investment or savings. I don’t blame my husband at all, but he went back to pharmacy school in his early 50’s, made it through 2 1/2 years of classes, including for 2 classes that he had to repeat, and finally age, declining memory, and his other health problems caught up with him. Worry also took a terrible toll on him. Now he can’t find a job either as a chemist or a pharmacy tech ( he was fired after one month as a pharmacy tech from a local hospital because he was ” too slow ” ), and we have $ 55,000 in student loans which we are repaying. I completely respect his efforts, but I have the burden of makng the monthly payments through my earnings at work. He is in the process for applying for S.S. disability, which he has a very good chance of getting, since he has a number of comorbidities. Depression has also played a terrible role in all this. I would advise you to make damn sure you an finish the course, or you might wind up with $ 60K of education you’ll never be able to use. I’m living it right now.
Agreed, success is more about planning than what you do for a living.
Obama didn’t finish paying off his student loans until he was a Senator.
Don’t bet on wage inflation in law anytime soon. Lawyers are part of the service economy, and lots of legal work like contract drafting, cookie cutter securities work, and document review can be outsourced to common law countries (India counts). That leaves lots of out of work lawyers in competition for the other stuff.
Seems like every lib art major with a useless BA ends up going the law school route.
Visit jdunderground.com before it’s too late.
There’s a real glut of lawyers, even now. It’s not a hard degree to get.
Personally, I would either go for biotech, or mining studies of some kind. There was more demand for mining engineers this year, than there were graduating students. Plus if you’re going to work full time, and study - look for a job which has tuition as a benefit.
Any thoughts?
yeah.. when you get an ‘idea’ keep it to yourself. Ideas are like little babies.. they need protection. They need time to grow and mature… You don’t push a new idea out into the street and beg passersby to take pot shots at it unless you want it to die.
Lunch stimulus special:
Chinese take-out, just $586 billion (fried rice $25 billion extra)
Lol, reminds me of the newest Mac commercial with the Mac guy and the PC guy having a bake sale.
Whooo hooooo! Mushrooms really ARE the answer to everything! I knew it!
‘Forget Corn: Mushrooms May Hold the Key to Solving World’s Energy Crisis’
http://tinyurl.com/635cct
I’m full of mushrooms, by the way, although not that kind. For breakfast I made a huge omelette stuffed full of russulas, a couple of laccarias, and a very pretty p. ostreatus clump.
Say, are any other Hbbers mycophiles? I would assume so, being correctly-thinking already, and all, it would only be natural.
One of my fondest Burning Man memories is from a number of years ago when our entire camp was sans ’shrooms (for cooking up color schemes) but along came a later-day Lady Godiva bearing chocolate-laced goodness. In lieu of a steed, she was piloting a bicycle of just one speed.
Sounds like someone was trippin’ was lady G necked?
Toplessly she rode towards us, a nordic beauty astride a beach cruiser, I remember asking her if she was dream come true.
Sounds like the greatest hippie generation and I loved the 70’s.
Hey Lad, did you ever go to reggae on the river?
They had all of the above.
Never been to reggae on the river, but our BM car a few years ago was a futuristic rocket-ship-of-sorts (previously a 1990 Chrysler minivan) that played only reggae as it slowly cruised the playa in search of…
I’m planning on joining a local society soon. I suppose I’m a wannabe. SIGH.
“Say, are any other Hbbers mycophiles?”
Don’t you have to be registered with your local authorities?
Only if you sell it; not for private consumption. Some such anyway.
‘Only if you sell it; not for private consumption.’
I think it depends on how plausible you sound when you claim to have been trying to find some cute little mushrooms for making Sunday soup with grandma.
Too bad the fun kind grow all over, making the supply reduction difficult. You’d pretty much have to napalm western WA, so yeah–you have to be pretty egregious in your habits to get in trouble.
Well, what?! Jeeze, HBBers. Where did all of yer think I get all my super good ideas about magical flying pink ponies and leprechauns in wheelbarrows? Hmmmm?
Omelettes, baybee!
Hahahahahahaha!
my wife and I have discussed growing them. It’s on a long list of to-do’s.
I’ve never really considered learning how to harvest them myself in the wilderness. Sounds interesting.
‘Sounds interesting.’
Oh, it is. Let me assure you.
I belonged to the Ohio Mycological Society for a number of years; quit when I started having kids. Too many horror stories about kids and mushrooms. Do pick a number of them now; I learned from my relatives as to the safest and least likely to mistake for the problematic ones. Would drive my buddies nuts on camping trips. They’d watch me for a few hours after I ate the smothered steak before they’d match me. Didnt have the heart to tell them that if I was wrong it might not show for 12-24 hours. Wild are far better than any store boughts.
mycophiles - gourmet mushroom spawn.
Talk about pricey stuff. Mushrooms are expensive and not part of middle income grocery bills. You must be a chef for a fine kitchen to see all the varieties there are, otherwise just give me button or portabello ’shrooms. Love ‘em with garlic.
She meant picking them herselves in the woods. There are people who do that even here in New York; you just gotta know how to do it.
I don’t even have to go in the woods, Faster! Not right now, since the season has started with such monumentally glorious excess. I merely walk out the front door and push all the mounds of mushrooms busting out of the path, the lawn, the wood beams of my house, aside as I go get the mail. Oh, it’s heaven! Heavennnnnnn….
Are you really going to join a mushroom society? That’s super! It’s a fascinating subject, you get to go bounding around the woods hunting for stuff, AND you can eat your studies. It’s the best of all worlds, especially for a gourmand like you.
However, please be cautious and pick a good teacher/reference books. If you should happen to mistake an amanita for a meadow mushroom this blog would get very boring.
Verily I am. I just mailed off my check for $15.
I’ve had about a dozen ER patients who thought they knew what they were doing. They were wrong.
There are mycological societies who know what they are doing.
There are even people who supply Alice Waters’ restaurant Chez Panisses in Berkeley with this stuff full-time as their profession.
Like everything else in life, there are NAR-chanters and HBB-ers.
Shoots, Fasty, my reply to you didn’t show up yet, and I didn’t even cuss in it.
I waxed eloquent about the joys of finding mushrooms in the forest, or on the sidewalk, or coming out of the side of the house, and I was excited about your plan to join a mushroom society.
But here’s my main point; and I’ll try to remember what I said the first time, please be very careful to get a good teacher and reference books until you get comfortable with it, because if you were to mistake an amanita (Or, as I like to call them: ‘Oh, Hello, is that You, Jeebus?’) with a meadow mushroom, well then, this blog would get very boring. And I don’t want that.
WHERE ARE MY POSTS. Okay, trying again for the THIRD time! Grumble.
———————————————————————
Shoots, Fasty, my first reply to you didn’t show up yet, and I didn’t even cuss in it.
I waxed eloquent about the joys of finding mushrooms in the forest, or on the sidewalk, or coming out of the side of the house, and I was excited about your plan to join a mushroom society.
But here’s my main point; and I’ll try to remember what I said the first time, please be very careful to get a good teacher and reference books until you get comfortable with it, because if you were to mistake an amanita (Or, as I like to call them: ‘Oh, Hello, is that You, Jeebus?’) with a meadow mushroom, well then, this blog would get very boring. And I don’t want that.
There are mycological societies who know what they are doing. Yeah, right. My favorite case was an Italian couple who got sick while they were eating the mushrooms hubby had picked as he had done for decades. They were even thoughtful enough to bring specimens of the raw & the cooked mushrooms to be checked out. Our protocol was to call a professor at the state university down the road with a longstanding interest in poison mushrooms. He picked up the specimens, checked them out & told us the mushrooms were supposed to be OK. He said the textbooks weren’t always accurate. Fortunately these were not amanitas & the folks recovered.
My fav bio prof commented that he “had known” some mushroom experts.
It’s OK, doc! It’ll be a cold day in July before I listen to the American doctors about culinary things.
I love my barely-cooked eggs; I adore my raw cheeses; I love raw milk; and I go completely ga-ga over steak tartare. I have been known to eat barely-cooked poultry (but the poultry comes from farmers I know personally.)
I have yet to be poisoned by salmonella or to die of all that food is supposed to do to you. As an accomplished chef, I’ve never poisoned anyone either.
I’m not afraid of my food. I have a perfectly rational and healthy relationship with it.
My dog ate what was likely a poisonous mushroom as a puppy when camping 5 years ago. My cousin was watching him, and I had just come back from the facilities when he vomited, staggered, and then fell down unconscious (scary to witness, as he was already more than 100 lbs, and dropped like a rock). I tried to race him to any nearby vet (I was way out in the boonies) but there was nothing close by, and everything within 100 miles was closed (Sunday). He regained consciousness on his own about 15-20 minutes after he passed out. I was so thankful. By the time I got him to a vet, they said there was really no way to tell exactly what it was he ate, but probably a mushroom of some sort. Lots of them here in western, WA.
There are old mushroom pickers and there are bold mushroom pickers; there are no old, bold mushroom pickers.
It’s OK, doc! It’ll be a cold day in July before I listen to the American doctors about culinary things. I’m a doctor, not a culinary expert.
ECONOMIC PREVIEW
Worst retail sales trend since 1974 expected
Fourth consecutive month of declines seen; sentiment, trade data on tap
By Ruth Mantell, MarketWatch
Last update: 12:01 a.m. EST Nov. 9, 2008
Hedge fund managers ‘funereal’ in midst of crisis
More pain expected, but some look for opportunities in ‘rubble’
By Alistair Barr, MarketWatch
Last update: 8:32 p.m. EST Nov. 7, 2008
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) — In the midst of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, several top hedge fund managers sent a grim message to their investors in October: it isn’t over.
One said he was sickened by the crisis, while another admitted shock and embarrassment at the severity of the market slump and the losses his firm suffered. A third warned clients to be careful about buying anything and said it will be years before investors should buy stocks.
Such pessimism is often taken as a sign that markets may have hit a bottom and most of the managers realized this. Indeed, some said they’d already begun buying securities that they think are cheap enough to discount all the gloom.
The Standard & Poor’s 500 index slumped more than 16% in October, while credit markets collapsed.
Spreads on investment-grade corporate debt jumped by 151 basis points, while junk bond spreads surged by 521 basis points to a record 1,617, according to CreditSights.
Losses in these markets so far this year reached 19% and 31% respectively, prompting the fixed-income research firm to ask “Can it get any worse?”
Hedge funds have been hit particularly hard by this market collapse. The average manager lost 5.43% in October, leaving them down more than 15% so far this year, according to preliminary estimates on Friday from Hedge Fund Research.
That puts the $1.7 trillion industry on course for its worst year since at least 1990, when HFR began tracking performance. Before 2008, hedge funds had only one down year in that time: in 2002 they lost 1.45% on average.
latest news
[FBTX] Franklin Bank closure is 18th of the year
Credit Suisse shuts down bond fund
By Shawn Langlois, MarketWatch
Last update: 2:11 p.m. EST Nov. 8, 2008
SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) - Swiss bank Credit Suisse Group said Saturday that it is shutting down a bond fund and its subfunds after their value was crushed by the global financial crisis, according to a published report.
The bank said it will close the CS Bond Fund (Lux) Target Return because the lack of liquidity in the market has made it impossible to sell assets to meet redemption requests, Reuters reported.
“In the course of the last days and weeks investors have significantly sold assets in a flight to liquidity. The volume of redemptions has meant that many subfunds have become too small to operate on practical and economic terms,” Credit Suisse said in a statement.
Care Bear, is that the franklin templeton funds?
I dunno
REAL ESTATE
Obama’s home front
What the new president will do to keep people in homes and improve housing
By Amy Hoak, MarketWatch
Last update: 7:01 p.m. EST Nov. 6, 2008
Comments: 52
CHICAGO (MarketWatch) — Economic concerns were at the forefront of voters’ minds this week. And for many Americans, those financial issues begin at home.
Between rising foreclosures and falling home prices, housing issues became a huge concern in the months leading up to the election. As such, they’re likely to continue to take priority during President-elect Barack Obama’s first term.
… foreclosures are likely the No. 1 concern, because that problem is a big one.
According to a report from Credit Suisse, 6.5 million loans were expected to fall into foreclosure over the next five years. That’s based on home prices dropping 10% in 2008 and 5% in 2009, before rising 3% in future years.
The Center for Responsible Lending estimated in August that nearly 2.2 million foreclosures would occur due to defaults on subprime loans from late 2008 through the end of 2009. More than 40 million homes in neighborhoods surrounding those foreclosures would suffer price declines as a result, causing a $352 billion total decline in property values, or an average $8,667 per home.
“According to a report from Credit Suisse, 6.5 million loans were expected to fall into foreclosure over the next five years. That’s based on home prices dropping 10% in 2008 and 5% in 2009, before rising 3% in future years.”
Wasn’t Ivy Zelman still working at Credit Suisse when she prepared that famous reset chart that showed Alt-A and prime ARM reset tsunami cresting in 2010? Perhaps they conveniently ignored that chart when they cooked up their questionable happy scenario of 3 pct home price appreciation forever after 2009.
2 RE stories:
SIL and her husband were looking at a Ryland home on 3 acres in Fredericksburg Va area for 660K a few years ago; he promised he’d buy them the home if it went to 350K (haha - it would never fall that low, don’t listen to my ridiculous ideas) - now some models in the development are going for 319K albeit on 1 acre…
A professional couple (he works, she’d rather not) had the privilege to have 2 SFRs, one for 700K (no money down fixer upper - needs a new 50K roof - she just HAD to have it - at least he realizes they top-ticked the market and is upside down, and one for 285K that they had to rent. They just got an all cash offer on the 285K house for 370K - they (she) wanted to hold out for 385K - the road was just widened, we live in Alaska, natural gas is going through the roof, the houses will be worth 1 million and half a million in a few years etc etc, but after some wine I held forth on Minsky deflation, Kondratieff winter, everyone has debt/no one has cash (or gold), they (he) ultimately took the deal…I’m sure they’ll (she’ll) burn through it pretty quickly on monthly week-long trips (’for the children’), home repairs and vet bills (she unilaterally bought a puppy), but I did my good deed for the month. I told him if she wanted 15K that badly she could go back to work…
Goldman forecasting biggest rise in joblessness since WWII
By Rex Nutting
Last update: 10:55 a.m. EST Nov. 7, 2008
WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — The unemployment rate is expected to rise to 8.5% by the end of next year and inch even higher in early 2010, economists for Goldman Sachs wrote Friday. The cumulative trough-to-peak increase of more than 4 percentage points in the jobless rate would be the most since World War II, they said.
I’ll bet against them and say it goes over 11% by early 2010.
Also U6 (broadest measure) will be as bad or worse than the GD 1 by late 2010.
For those that care, unemployment lags the economy as in it keeps going up while the basic economic fundamentals have already turned.
In addition, at least for every cycle since I have been paying attention, the stock market rallied while unemployment kept climbing. I have always suspected this had to do with punchbowl respiking efforts by the Fed (the kind currently underway, of which new varieties are getting proposed and implemented on a weekly basis).
Naah, the fundamentals are already improving while unemployment is rising.
Partly, it’s the fault of reporting (which is backwards), and partly, it’s that businesses have already started making money by being rational about the relationship between their sales and their staffing situation.
I’d argue it has nothing to do with respiking and everything to do with how entrepreneurship works.
After ten straight months of job losses, the NBER’s head of the recession dating committee stated the obvious - the US economy is in a recession. Looking on the bright side, though, by the time the NBER typically announces that a recession began, it is usually close to or already over.
In related news:
Queen said to wear crown
Wings vital to airplane flight
Weather cooler since August
—–
The dating committee has spoken. All hail the glory of the NBER, married to the glob.
Hall of NBER Sees `Conclusive’ Evidence of U.S. Recession
By Steve Matthews
Nov. 7 (Bloomberg) — The Stanford University economist who leads the panel that dates economic cycles said there is now no doubt that a recession is under way following today’s jobs report.
The committee is waiting to determine the exact start date of a contraction.
“The evidence is more than compelling,” Robert Hall, who leads the National Bureau of Economic Research’s business cycle dating committee, said in an interview. “It’s conclusive, in my personal opinion.”
Obama Is Seen Inheriting Worst U.S. Recession Since Reagan Era
By Bob Willis
Nov. 8 (Bloomberg) — President-elect Barack Obama will inherit the worst recession since Ronald Reagan’s second year in the White House, economists said as figures showed U.S. payrolls plunged by more than half a million the past two months.
The economy will shrink at a 3.5 percent annual rate in the fourth quarter and at a 2 percent pace in the first quarter of 2009, nearly twice prior estimates, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. economists led by Jan Hatzius wrote yesterday in a note. That would be the biggest back-to-back contraction since 1982.
The surge in unemployment reflected an economic cave-in in October, when car sales plunged 32 percent, manufacturing contracted the most in 26 years and consumer confidence fell to a record low. The deepening recession puts pressure on Obama to quickly assemble a response and name his economic team.
Deaf, Dumb and Blind Economists Still Failing to Call Recession
Stock-Markets / Financial Markets Nov 08, 2008 - 10:07 AM
By: Anthony_Cherniawski
Financial Times
AIG nears deal on another state bail-out
AIG is closing in on a new government bail-out that will allow the troubled insurer to reduce interest payments and give it more time to sell assets and save itself from collapse - 22:42
The govt seems committed to fully backstopping AIG with a bottomless too-big-to-fail guarantee, similar to the GSE bailout.
AIG receives $150bn state bail-out
By Francesco Guerrera in New York
Published: November 9 2008 22:42 | Last updated: November 10 2008 01:46
AIG is to receive a new $150bn US government bail-out that will allow the troubled insurer to reduce interest payments and give it more time to sell assets and save itself from collapse.
The new deal will increase the government’s aid to the stricken insurer from $123bn to $150bn but leave the federal authorities to reap most of the gains if AIG’s troubled assets recover in value.
People close to the situation said the new plan – which comes less than two months after the Federal Reserve took an 80 per cent stake in AIG in exchange for an $85bn rescue loan – could be announced on Monday, with the insurer’s third-quarter results.
Hedge fund results seen going from bad to worse
Fri Nov 7, 2008 8:17am EST
NEW YORK (Reuters) - As brutal as September was for hedge funds, October was even worse.
Hedge fund industry trackers Barclay Hedge, Hedge Fund Research Inc and Hennessee Group LLC will report over the next few days just how poorly the $1.9 trillion industry performed last month. It was a period of plunging stock prices, frozen debt markets and fire-sales by banks scrambling to boost cash.
“You had one of the worst months in the equity markets that you had in decades. You add to that the ban on short selling, which destroyed convertible arbitrage, and the equity strategies were hurt badly,” said Sol Waksman, founder of industry tracking service Barclay Hedge.
Observation: As long as money keeps growing on trees, there are really no limits on the number and variety of bailout measures that can be proposed and implemented to respike the credit bubble punch bowl.
Financial Times
Wall St jobs axe threatens 70,000
By Francesco Guerrera and Aline van Duyn in New York
Published: November 9 2008 23:32 | Last updated: November 9 2008 23:32
The financial industry is bracing for a fresh round of job cuts as Wall Street banks slash costs to cushion the blow of further market turbulence and deepening economic woes in 2009.
Executives and analysts say the redundancies – to be finalised this month as banks prepare next year’s budgets – could top 70,000 among US groups alone and add to the estimated 150,000 jobs already lost by the financial sector worldwide.
Isn’t this where we were last December, except for the taxpayer funding that recently was ramrodded through Congress?
Financial Times
Buying of US toxic assets urged
By Krishna Guha in Washington
Published: November 9 2008 22:01 | Last updated: November 9 2008 22:01
Plans for the US government to buy troubled assets as part of its $700bn financial sector rescue should not be abandoned or delayed in the transition to the Obama presidency, a top securities industry official has warned.
In an interview with the Financial Times, Tim Ryan, president of the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association, said: “I do not think we can put this on hold for two months. We would not put foreign policy on hold for months during the transition.”
John Paul Kashkari: “I have not yet begun to bail.”
SPECIAL REPORT AMERICA’S MONEY CRISIS
Kashkari: Bank bailout just beginning
Key Treasury official said it’s too early to judge effectiveness of the capital injection plan and added that other options to help financials are on the table.
By David Ellis, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: November 7, 2008: 3:50 PM ET
Buying stocks right now seems like a really dumb idea. I can feel the stupidity of such a move in every inch of my body. How can anyone even consider buying stocks at this point in economic history?
Bear market: Time to buy?
By John Authers
Published: November 9 2008 20:21 | Last updated: November 9 2008 20:21
As world stock markets plunged last month, investors were able to take heart from the latest words of Warren Buffett: he announced he was buying stocks. “A simple rule dictates my buying: be fearful when others are greedy, and be greedy when others are fearful,” proclaimed the man known as the Sage of Omaha. “And most certainly, fear is now widespread, gripping even seasoned investors.”
…
“I haven’t the faintest idea as to whether stocks will be higher or lower a month – or a year – from now,” he wrote. “What is likely, however, is that the market will move higher, perhaps substantially so, well before either sentiment or the economy turns up. So if you wait for the robins, spring will be over.”
But is there a way of telling when equities might have hit bottom? Certainly, when fear overcomes greed to this extent, attempts to assess a stock’s value according to fundamental measures go out of the window. Instead, all people have to go on is history. Yet precedents as extreme as last month’s “Black October” are few. Only four periods in the past 100 years (two of them during the 1930s) match the 46 per cent slide since the Standard & Poor’s 500, the world’s most widely tracked index, reached an all-time high in October last year.
The mother of all bear markets started in 1929, lasted at least until 1932 and coincided with the onset of the Great Depression. The Standard & Poor’s 500 index fell 86 per cent.
Although many market scholars would count it as a separate incident, a further drop in equities began in 1937. The S&P endured a new fall of 54.5 per cent in the space of a year, though ending above its high from 1932. It took 25 years to get back to the 1929 peak.
The precedent is alarming: at this point in the 1929-32 bear market, stocks had another 75 per cent to fall before hitting bottom.
PB, wow, that was six posts in a row plus one reply == 7.
I would be careful about trying to map the present situation too closely to the 1929-32 period. Have you read _Anatomy of the Bear_ by Russell Napier? My takeaway was that while lessons can be drawn from comparisons of bear markets, each one is quite unique. One reason he wrote the book was frustration with the available financial histories, which he characterizes as impractical.
In our current bear market, the economic environment and policy responses are so far unlike anything we have seen before, so I would not expect to be able to predict stock prices “this time” based on historical results.
I have no idea what will happen, as it is clearly different this time.
Ben Bernake may desperately desire a depression so that he can write a book about it.
Yield Curve May Steepen to Record During Recession (Update1)
By Dakin Campbell and Liz Capo McCormick
Nov. 10 (Bloomberg) — Treasury two-year notes, the worst performing U.S. government securities in the past year, may beat longer-term debt as the Federal Reserve cuts interest rates to pull the U.S. economy out of a nosedive, according to one of the bond market’s most-watched barometers.
The difference between yields on two- and 10-year notes, known as the yield curve, may widen to a record 3 percentage points from 2.44 percentage points now, according to strategists at Morgan Stanley and Credit Suisse Group AG. Shorter-term yields are falling on expectations the Fed will reduce its target for overnight loans between banks to curtail the recession. Ten-year yields are likely to rise as the government borrows to bail out the U.S. financial system, they said.
US data points to ‘big, bad and broad-based’ recession
Saturday November 08 2008
Investment bank Goldman Sachs Group has forecast the deepest US economic recession since 1982 after the unemployment rate climbed to a 14-year high and payrolls tumbled for a 10th consecutive month.
The economy will shrink 3.5pc in the fourth quarter and 2pc in the first quarter, compared with previous estimates of 2pc and 1pc, Goldman economists led by Jan Hatzius wrote in a research note yesterday.
That would be the biggest back-to-back quarterly contraction since the start of the second year of Ronald Reagan’s presidency.
…
“We’re heading for a deep recession,” said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist at IHS Global Insight in Lexington, Massachusetts. “Banish the word mild from your vocabulary. It’s big, it’s bad and it’s broad-based.”
As Faster Pussycat pointed out in one of these threads, unemployment is a lagging indicator. These guys are predicting the recent past and the present. We’re *IN* a deep recession. Geeze.
Now it’s time to start looking for what’s next.
Wall Street Journal
* TECHNOLOGY
* NOVEMBER 10, 2008
Technology Options Sink
Silicon Valley Considers Repricing but Risks Riling Investors
By SCOTT MORRISON
Silicon Valley is drowning in “underwater” options. But with the stock market in turmoil, investors might be uneasy bailing out high-tech employees.
Employees at scores of companies, including Yahoo Inc. and Google Inc., are holding stock options, the right to buy shares at a preset price, that have been rendered virtually worthless because those companies’ shares have fallen below the exercise prices.
At chip maker Advanced Micro Devices Inc., the situation has gotten so extreme the company is planning a shareholder meeting to ask permission to reprice 99% of its outstanding options. AMD, whose stock price had fallen about 76% over the past 52 weeks to $3.16 a share at Friday’s close, said this is necessary to prevent key employees from leaving.
“The vast majority of the historically granted stock options no longer are effective as incentives to motivate and retain employees,” a company proxy statement said. The date of the meeting has yet to be set.
Ah yes, the flip side of compensating employees with “cheap options”.
If the employers don’t make good on the compensation (and make no mistake, those options are an important part of compensation), they will lose their best people.
One way to capitalize on this will be new startups. There is money out there to fund startups, and if high-quality people can be more easily poached, all the better.
AMD is getting hammered by Intel right now anyway, so it’s probably time for the talent to switch to projects that are more likely to succeed than an ongoing quixotic campaign to topple Intel’s monopoly.
Wall Street Journal
* OPINION
* NOVEMBER 10, 2008
Detroit Auto Makers Need More Than a Bailout
By PAUL INGRASSIA
…
Let’s assume that the powers in Washington — the Bush team now, the Obama team soon — deem GM too big to let fail. If so, it’s also too big to be entrusted to the same people who have led it to its current, perilous state, and who are too tied to the past to create a different future.
[Detroit Auto Makers Need More Than a Bailout] Associated Press
In return for any direct government aid, the board and the management should go. Shareholders should lose their paltry remaining equity. And a government-appointed receiver — someone hard-nosed and nonpolitical — should have broad power to revamp GM with a viable business plan and return it to a private operation as soon as possible.
someone from bear stearns should know what to do.
Wall Street Journal
* NOVEMBER 10, 2008
CRISIS MODE
Paulson, Bernanke Strained for Consensus in Bailout
By JON HILSENRATH, DEBORAH SOLOMON and DAMIAN PALETTA
A chronology of NAR-speak:
Prices are still rising: “RE never goes down; buy now or be priced out forever; they ain’t making any more of it, you know.”
Price increases are decelerating: “Well, we can’t go up double-digits EVERY year.”
Prices are flat: “Don’t worry: this is just the pause that refreshes. Ignore those plummeting sales #s.”
Prices start to decline: “This is just a normal slowdown. What a great time to buy.”
Prices are down 10%: “It’s inconceivable [*The Princess Bride*, anyone?] that prices could go down much further. There’s so much pent up demand. Buy now or you’ll be sorry.”
Prices are down 20%: “This is all due to the financial crisis. Once it blows over prices will start rising again.”
Prices are down 30%: “Somebody make it stop!”
Prices are down 50%: “Why should I worry? I stopped being a Realtor years ago.”
Prices finally bottom out: “If I never buy another piece of RE it will be too soon.”
Anyone watch Schiff on Fox Business News? There’s long-haired, wild-eyed RE bull named Tom Atkins. On a previous episode in 2007, they made opposite points [surprise, surprise] but Atkins was buying in Texas where a lot of cities were UNDERVALUED during the RE boom. He also said he wouldn’t be buying in CA or the hot places. So maybe he and Schiff weren’t so far apart after all?
Embrace Sacrifice.