What Got Us Into This Mess
The New York Times reports on California. “Because of plunging home values, almost 90 percent of homeowners here owe more on their mortgages than their houses are worth, according to figures released Monday. That is the highest percentage in the country. The average homeowner in Mountain House is ‘underwater,’ as it is known, by $122,000. Jerry Martinez, a general contractor, and his wife, Marcie, an accounts clerk, are among the struggling owners in Mountain House. Burdened with credit card debt and a house losing value by the day, they are learning the necessity of self-denial for themselves and their three children.”
“No more family bowling night. No more dinners at Chili’s or Applebee’s. No more going to the movies. ‘We make decent money, but it takes a tremendous amount to pay the mortgage,’ Mr. Martinez said.”
“Kenny Rogers moved into Mountain House last year, buying a foreclosed property on Prosperity Street for $380,000. But the decline in values has been so fierce that he too is underwater. He has cut his DVD buying from 50 a month to perhaps one, and is waiting until the Christmas sales to buy a high-definition television. He does not indulge much anymore in his hobbies of scuba diving and flying. ‘Best to wait for a better price, or do without,’ Mr. Rogers said.”
“The Martinezes bought their house in early 2005 for $630,000. It is now worth about $420,000. They have an interest-only mortgage. In 2015, Mr. Martinez said, his monthly payments will be $12,000 a month. He laughed and shook his head at the absurdity of it. They rent movies. They play board games. (But not Monopoly — with its real estate theme, it reminds them too much of real life.)”
“‘It’s a vicious circle,’ Mr. Martinez said. The economy is faltering because he and millions of others are not spending. This killed his career in home remodeling this year, and threatens his current work as a contractor on commercial properties. Mr. Martinez acknowledges that it has entered his mind to turn his house back over to the bank. ‘By next June, if things aren’t better, I’m walking,’ Mr. Martinez said.”
The Contra Costa Times. “In a setback for homeowners menaced by a troublesome mortgage, Wachovia Corp. has abruptly terminated a program with several mortgage companies that would have allowed consumers to restructure their home loans to avoid a foreclosure. The program was announced in late September with much fanfare. The idea behind the program was to identify people with their ‘Pick-A-Pay’ adjustable rate mortgages”
“San Ramon-based BWC Mortgage Services was one of a select group of financial firms that Wachovia had tapped. ‘The program was terminated about a week ago,’ said Michelle Kinder, an executive vice president with BWC Mortgage.”
“‘Quite frankly, the results were not what we had expected,’ Kinder said. ‘The percentage of borrowers that we were able to actually help was quite small.’”
“Salinas resident Jerry Williams has been scrambling to strike a deal with Wachovia to avert a foreclosure on his home. When Williams first heard about the program, he quickly called BWC Mortgage. BWC told Williams they were working with Wachovia and would be glad to assist him. Three weeks went by and then BWC told Williams of a sudden change in the pilot program.”
“‘Wachovia pulled the plug on BWC,’ Williams said. ‘When I called Wachovia, they said they hadn’t gotten money from the bailout. The only program Wachovia offered me was to taken my next three months of payments and put them at the back of the loan.’”
The Sacramento Business Journal. “Ethan Conrad amassed a small empire by acquiring fixer-upper commercial buildings, but now he believes there are bargains in new territory — land for single-family homes. ‘I’ve watched values plummet by a pretty shocking amount,’ said Conrad, who bought 267 lots from homebuilders William Lyon Homes and JTS Communities Inc. in the past few months, spending about $11 million on assets that cost those homebuilders $45 million.”
“Guy Spitzer is a VP at Cornish & Carey Commercial who concentrates on land and investment properties after a career with builders Renaissance Homes, Lennar Homes and Centex Homes. He is much more cautious about the state of the market, saying it’s possible that private investors have leapt too soon because they can’t reap profits until homebuilding is profitable again.”
“‘I have been a homebuilder for 25 years; I’m the guy who had to buy those deals,’ he said. ‘Nobody has any proof that we’re at bottom. Our country is going into recession and that’s going to cause additional pain in California — it’s just a tough, tough time.’”
The Merced Sun Star. “Last year Merced Paseo, an offshoot of Summerton Homes, proposed a 142-home subdivision at G Street and Bellevue Road. The neighborhood’s driveways are paved, the streets have names and wiring sprouts from the ground. The only parts missing are the homes. Six model houses, surrounded by a fence, show a neighborhood frozen in a credit crunch.”
“County Bank’s bid to collect a $9 million construction loan it made to a local developer may be headed for trial. The local financial institution made a loan last year to finance Paseo.”
“A hearing on whether the bank, if successful in its case, can seize the personal assets of Todd Bender, the head of Merced Paseo, is scheduled for next week. County Bank spokesman Thomas Smith said he can’t comment on current court cases. Don Drummond, the developer’s San Francisco-based attorney, also declined to elaborate on his defendant’s side. ‘We’re in litigation. We’re duking it out,’ he said. ‘May the best man win.’”
From Fox 35. “Monterey County of Association of Realtors say in the month of October 350 homes sold throughout the county and that 70% of sales were foreclosed homes. Hans Thomas is a first time home buyer and getting married this Saturday. He has lived in California for almost two decades and never thought he could own a home until now. ‘Before the housing price started collapsing we were looking to buy a sail boat to live a board, we both enjoy that. When prices came down we said let’s get into the housing market and take advantage of it,’ he said.”
“Thomas says during the housing boom he and his soon to be wife had some huge decisions to make. ‘We really did not want to be in a situation where the home owned us. That was a big deciding factor for us. We were actually looking for jobs else where in the country. Where what we earned was more in line with the cost of housing.’”
From USA Today. “Ventura’s housing market, like the rest of the nation, is suddenly in a holding pattern. ‘In the last several weeks we’ve had all the uncertainty in the market and so everybody just stops in their place,’ says Dale King, president of the Ventura County Coastal Association of Realtors. ‘But the coastal areas recover quickly.’”
“The majority of the foreclosures in Ventura stemmed from 2004 and 2005, according to King. ‘That was when prices were peaking and lenders were making incredibly exotic loans,’ such as subprime loans, he says. ‘Lenders were trying to loosen up their programs to just get people in any way, shape or form. There was also fraud that took place because people were vulnerable.’”
“Local realty agents expect Ventura home sales will rebound fairly quickly. ‘In the last month I’ve gotten a lot of calls from prospective home buyers,’ says Janet Caminite, a real estate agent at Sotheby’s International Realty. ‘They are not writing offers right now, but the fact that they are inquiring is a good sign.’”
The San Gabriel Valley Tribune. “With units that range from $2.25 million to more than $4 million, the exclusive oceanside resort in Rancho Palos Verdes certainly isn’t for everyone. But Robert Floe is hooked. The 53-year-old Pasadena investment advisor recently went in with business partner Lee Wolfe and Wolfe’s father to purchase a 2,040-square-foot Casitas unit in Terranea for $2.65 million.”‘
“It’s full ownership,’ Floe said. ‘They furnish it and maintain it, but they also put you in a rental program.’”
“Floe said he’s excited about his purchase, a move that was made primarily as an investment. ‘There is so little oceanfront property available in California and I’ve got a Casitas that’s literally right on the ocean with a view of Catalina,’ he said. ‘I think this will be considered one of the most popular resorts in Southern California.’”
“Buyers who purchase a Villa or Casitas unit at the resort cannot live there year-round. Villa owners can stay at their units for 90 days out of the year, and Casitas owners for 60 days. For the remainder of the time, they can rent their units out to the public at the going market rate. ‘You can enjoy the pride of ownership and the benefits of ownership because you’re renting it out,’ said Dan Cooke, Terranea’s director of sales and marketing.”
The Union Tribune. “In these depressed times for real estate, they can be found all over the county: million-dollar homes that are so beautiful and inviting from the outside, but dark and empty on the inside. Peer into the picture window. There’s no life, no family.”
“Opened six years ago, the Golf Club would seemingly have everything a well-to-do, golf-loving member could want. Yet on an afternoon perfect for golf last week, there wasn’t a player to be found. The black iron gates that open to the club’s parking lot were locked. There wasn’t a ball on the driving range. There was something odd, too, about the greens that can be seen from the road. No flagsticks.”
“Ten days ago, the Golf Club of California closed. In an e-mail sent at 3:20 a.m. on Oct. 30, General Manager Kay McLaughlin, representing her family’s Korean ownership group, informed members that Halloween would be the last day the club would be available for play. Member dues were suspended as of Nov. 1. Lockers were to be cleared out immediately.”
“The original dreamer at the Golf Club was Wade Cable, the president of William Lyon Homes at the time of the course’s construction and opening. Cable is an avid golfer, and The Golf Club became his pet project. Once a novelty and selling tool for Lyon Homes, the club became a burden when sales cooled. Cable was set to retire in early 2007, and Lyon began to look for a buyer.”
“It has become clear that when McLaughlin purchased the Golf Club of California, she didn’t come close to grasping the depth of the course’s difficult road. She admits as much now. ‘I know this is my fault,’ she said. ‘I bought the golf course. But I wonder all of the time, ‘Is that bad enough to be penalized this much, to possibly lose everything?’ I’m gregarious. I jump into things. It is my strength and my weakness. I’m a dreamer.’”
“George Hall, a former Golf Club member who works as a consultant to golf clubs, has seen what happens next many times before. ‘The builder builds a golf course,’ he said. ‘Then they sneak up at night, throw the keys on the front door and run.’”
“In Hall’s opinion, Lyon Homes all but did that. ‘They made a decision to sell the club and put it on the chopping block,’ Hall said. ‘As a seller, they didn’t care who the buyer was, which is unfortunate for the members.’”
The San Francisco Chronicle. “Starting Jan. 1, the biggest loan on a single-family home that can be purchased by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac falls to $625,500 from $729,750 in certain high-cost areas including most Bay Area counties. Julian Hebron, a vice president with RPM Mortgage, says the government’s press release last week ‘left the door open’ for a continuation of higher limits. ‘These limits were legislated in a crisis. We are still in the crisis,’ he says.”
“But Keith Gumbinger, a vice president with HSH Associates, a publisher of mortgage information, doesn’t think it will happen. ‘There are so many other problems in the world right now, I’m not sure this is a front-burner issue,’ he says.”
“Traditional banks have been unfairly blamed for the financial crisis rocking the nation, the president of the American Bankers Association said Monday in San Francisco, blaming instead reckless loans issued by ‘the highly leveraged and fast-buck crowd.’ ‘Frankly, we all have a right to be angry at what has happened,’ ABA President Edward Yingling said as 1,700 bankers opened their annual conference.”
“Yingling laid primary blame for the current mess on mortgage lenders, operating under fewer rules, for making loans ‘good bankers would not make,’ and using investment firms like Bear Stearns and Lehman Bros. to sell ‘toxic subprime loans’ to investors worldwide.”
“In a panel discussion Monday, John Reich, head of the Office of Thrift Supervision, the federal agency that oversees savings and loans, also criticized mortgage lending practices and said the Mortgage Bankers Association had recently contacted his office to discuss federal oversight for these lenders.”
“Reich, a Bush administration appointee, said in retrospect it is clear that questionable mortgages that relied upon stated income, with little or no documentation, had contributed to the chain of events that have caused the current financial crisis. ‘I regret that I and my colleagues did not act to change these practices . . . until the bottom of the housing market fell out,’ Reich said Monday.”
“Steve O’Connor, government affairs representative for the Mortgage Bankers Association, confirmed that his group, whose members are chartered by state authorities and only indirectly scrutinized at the federal level, had started talking with Office of Thrift Supervision officials about federal regulation to prevent a recurrence.”
“‘Our industry has acknowledged that we have had a role in the problems that are confronting the housing and financial sectors,’ O’Connor said.”
“Kent Steinwert, CEO of the F&M Bank in Lodi (San Joaquin County)…said smaller banks like his 23-branch chain, with about $1.7 billion in assets, never became embroiled in the financial shenanigans that have brought on the crisis. ‘I have no foreclosures in my portfolio,’ Steinwert said. ‘We’re not taking any of the bailout money. It’s not something we asked for or need.’”
“As smaller banks consider whether to accept capital infusions that would enable them to lend an estimated $10 for every federal dollar they accept, Yingling said they should not be pressured into making unwise loans. ‘That’s what got us into this mess to some degree,’ he said.”
‘Kenny Rogers moved into Mountain House last year, buying a foreclosed property on Prosperity Street for $380,000. But the decline in values has been so fierce that he too is underwater.’
Uh huh. Note to Washington; all these efforts to ‘get people into houses, new loans’ is going to end the same way. Maybe accepting that we’ve had a housing bubble would be the best thing?
Plus… If Kenny Rogers hadn’t wasted all that money on the crappy looking face lift, he could still sing and sell some of his own CD’s instead of buying other peoples DVD’s.
Man, that facelift he got is creepy and wrong.
Hide that feller away in a lackluster suburb filled with empty homes.
“
Prosperity Street”“Poverty Street”
Kenny just dropped in to see what condition his condition was in.
Turns out that it’s critical.
Has anyone in Washington even admitted yet the role of govt distortion of the housing market in creating the mess? I would think this would be an important first step in avoiding the same mistakes down the road. Instead, what we have is (surprise!!!) more distortionary housing policy, apparently designed to lure unsuspecting households into making financially foolish decisions — the proverbial hair-of-the-dog hangover cure!
The answer is no. ALL they are trying to do is rescue big business. Period. Anything that might possibly, in their minds, keep the gravy train on it’s tracks, is worth a try.
No. In the same way that they beat around the bush about low interest rates being the problem, few actual place hard blame on the Fed and even fewer (practically nobody) calls for reigning in the Fed… or dare I say it, abolishing the Fed.
“Has anyone in Washington even admitted yet the role of govt distortion of the housing market in creating the mess? I would think this would be an important first step in avoiding the same mistakes down the road.”
In the movie, The Right Stuff, following the Apollo 13 explosion the crew also suffers a CO2 problem, round v. square scrubber filtors. The engineers duplicate everything the crew has, on a table; this is what we have to work with!
The housing finance problem solvers need to put the average family’s $50k/yr on the table, and they must agree that this is what they have to work with, and possibly less as the recession firms its grip on the economy. Maybe then they will understand what really needs to be done.
Very well put RMS.
Exactly.
Unfortunately, the scum in charge are trying to figure out how to extract $60,000 a year from the people making the average $50,000 a year salary vs. trying to solve the affordability problem of housing.
I guess The Gambler didn’t break even. He also didn’t know when to fold or when to run.
You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille
With an upside down mortgage, and a remodeling career…..
But he does know when to walk away. Hint: it’s after living in the home he quit paying the mortgage on seven months or more ago.
Coward of the county, now…
BTW, Mountain house really is a community plopped in the middle of nowhere.
If only people realize this about California’s central valley.
They built anywhere, in a place that is full of low-wage labor.
They thought Sacrament = San Francisco
Salinas = Monterey
Riverside = Los Angeles
etc.
And believed that these places were underpriced as compared to the most affluent cities.
Just imagine this:
Find the crappiest place in your state, and build ‘luxury’ and new homes homes there, at extreme prices.
That is the central valley.
No logic to it.
They have the same logic in Baltimorgue.
Take a run-down, gang filled part of the city and “fix” it by installing overpriced housing while doing nothing about the crime, poverty, lack of jobs, and decay.
Is it outside breathing range from the Tracy slaughterhouses? Talk about a horrific stench…
I’ve smelled what you speak of. There is a rendering plant in Tacoma, WA that is nasty. Drive within blocks of the place and the gag reflex kicks in.
I worked with a customer in Tracy in November 2001. If I recall correctly, it was out in the middle of nowhere. It was a sleepy little town where the coolest thing was some little restaurant that sold a 3 lb. hamburger. I just can’t believe there was a building boom in Tracy.
Actually, Tracy is within commute distance of the East Bay. Many also commute from there all the way to SF (two hour+ commute times each way are not my cup of tea, but to each his own…).
Every time I read something like that I just think, “Kunstler is right”.
Bear…
You got it. I once did a story about a rendering plant near Wimauma, Fla. Zoning issues, with a couple Irish immigrants working the meat hooks. Carcasses were frozen, but hours after putrifying in the muggy heat. Cattle with TB, chicken house fatalities, deer and all roadkill the deputies bothered to deliver. Armadillos, wild pigs in high numbers. This ostensibly was for the pet food trade.
The zoning conclusion escapes me.
The stench?
The smell of death.
I think these people are going to get used to the austere and bohemian lifestlye so popular in the past. The love of simplicity and only thinking about necessities. F all that debt, being unable to move.
So much good stuff to do that is free. Just got back from a multiday backpacking trip. Cost me 20$ to get in the park but could have easily slipped in without paying.
Honestly think times like this will make our character a bit stronger. Give us a much better perspective on debt and freedom.
Jerry Martinez, a general contractor, and his wife, Marcie, an accounts clerk, are among the struggling owners in Mountain House. Burdened with credit card debt and a house losing value by the day, they are learning the necessity of self-denial for themselves and their three children.”
I’ve said it a thousand times at work, in the past 6 months. “We are going back to the 1970s.” Some of us will have no problems. Others will cry their eyes out, owing their entire existence to materialistic garbage.
He has cut his DVD buying from 50 a month to perhaps one, and is waiting until the Christmas sales to buy a high-definition television.
So him waiting a little while to waste money in ways I never would even with a steady, well-paying job and no debt, is considered ’self-denial’.
Who TF buys 50 DVDs a month? You can’t watch that many every month even if you’re unemployed.
This isn’t exactly the Siege of Leningrad and eating rats to survive. Nope, not feeling sorry yet.
I know this has already been commented on ad nauseum, but this paragraph is so chockful of material…forgive me.
“Kenny Rogers moved into Mountain House last year, buying a foreclosed property on Prosperity Street for $380,000. But the decline in values has been so fierce that he too is underwater. He has cut his DVD buying from 50 a month to perhaps one, and is waiting until the Christmas sales to buy a high-definition television. He does not indulge much anymore in his hobbies of scuba diving and flying. ‘Best to wait for a better price, or do without,’ Mr. Rogers said.”
Kenny Rogers. Kenny. Rogers.
Insert “The Gambler” joke here.
“Buying a foreclosed property on Prosperity Street.”
And on the 8th day…God created irony.
“He has cut his DVD buying from 50 a month to perhaps one…”
Good Lord, this is truly tragic. How many more people must cut back on their guaranteed-by-the-constitution DVD purchases before we rise as one and scream ENOUGH to this cold and cruel society?
“…and is waiting until the Christmas sales to buy a high-definition television. He does not indulge much anymore in his hobbies of scuba diving and flying.”
Wow, I thought having to discontinue the purchase of 50 FREAKIN’ DVDS PER MONTH was bad enough, but no…he also might have to wait THREE WHOLE WEEKS to purchase his $1800 teevee, and has cut way back on his “Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous” hobbies of scuba diving and flying. You know, hobbies that used to be reserved for people with the surnames of “Rockefeller” and “Hughes”?
Honestly. You’d think I’d lose my capacity to be amazed at the stories that keep coming out of this bubble, but no. It’s actually more like bee stings…they have a cumulative effect.
“Ventura’s housing market, like the rest of the nation, is suddenly in a holding pattern. ‘In the last several weeks we’ve had all the uncertainty in the market and so everybody just stops in their place,’ says Dale King, president of the Ventura County Coastal Association of Realtors. ‘But the coastal areas recover quickly.’”
I guess delusion is in born in these realturds, or else they are hypnotized at the NAR meetings.
Tried posting this on the BB but it didn’t show up:
I cringe when I read about BUYING out-of-the-money call options as a long shot.
Here’s an idea, GM Jan10 PUTS 2.5 were selling today for $1.85! You SELL the naked puts (say 10 contracts for $1850). You do what you want with the $1850 like earn interest, then in January 2010 after Obama has bailed out GM, they expire worthless and the $1850+interest is yours to keep. Your breakeven point is 65cents/share! I repeat, haul in $1850 today, if GENERAL MOTORS, once the largest company in America and bastian of American ingenuity goes to 0, your MAX possible loss is $650. Isn’t this better than SPENDING money today as a long-shot of making something? This is a serious money-making opportunity that doesn’t come along very often in a lifetime and I figure if GM does go to 0 I will have much bigger problems to worry about, LOL.
Well, it’s not coming from me, it will come from Aladinsane…
Know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk away, know when to run…
Oh, you poor dear. You shouldn’t be burdened with the obligation to actually pay for all those toys and nights out in which you and your family have indulged over the past several years. Here, take my wallet. As a matter of fact, take my husband’s wallet too, and my mom’s. Take it all, YOU DESERVE IT!
Aye, the government is going to incite Civil Guerrilla Warfare between those who get 6 figure bailouts and those who don’t. I’m not saying move to the hills, but you might want to consider staying way the hell away from malls unless you are wearing body armor and packing heat.
There’s a helluva lot more immature and pissed off adults out there than there are kids shooting up schools. This won’t be your grand parents sense of duty and morality in a Depression.
We are talking 6 figure a 7 figure entitlement expectations. And that’s before hitting the Obama jackpot lottery!
What about giving her the duck, too???
Hey, you back off my peeps, man.
They couldn’t HANDLE the duck.
Persius or whatever his name is could teach them a thing or two about self-denial after showing up in that tux at Halloween…
So here’s the new plan from the PTB:
“To qualify, borrowers would have to be at least three months behind on their home loans, and would need to owe 90 percent or more than the home is currently worth. Investors who do not occupy their homes would be excluded, as would borrowers who have filed for bankruptcy.
Borrowers would get help in several ways: The interest rate would be reduced so that borrowers would not pay more than 38 percent of their income on housing expenses. Another option is for loans to be extended from 30 years to 40 years, and for some of the principal amount to be deferred interest-free.”
OK, I may be reading that wrong, but does that mean if I’m a 50K strawberry picker and I’m in a house that has a 750K mortgage, I’m going to be paying no more than 38% of my income for said house?
Wonderful. Suckers we are.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081111/meltdown_mortgages.html
So most people will just stop paying for three months.
This is going to be a disaster. We’re going to full-on crash here for banks at least.
I’d buy heavy shorts at the (probable) furious rally between here and Christmas. Then Jan and Feb will be gravy.
Would those heavy shorts be lead-filled Bermudas?
I think the message here is to take out more loans and then give the house to a lowly paid spouse. After modification take the loans and invest in some low risk investment.
Kind of a personal carry trade investment.
Back in the 80s/90s; guy in school on scholarship took out as large as possible student loans. Then invested the money and collected interest for the entire time they were in school. The interest was defered for the entire time. I believe most of the people in question ended up with lots of extra beer money from this.
Anyhow, I’m not enough of a scumbag. There are going to be lots of ways to work the system. Just haven’t figured them out yet. Also appears the forclosures are going to the realturds first before they hit the market. So, we must still be early in the cycle.
I figure the banks losses are more severe because they don’t have good representation on the ground.
Alright, apparently my earlier post got filtered due to an inappropriate slur……..whatever. My point was this is poetic justice for the FB. Let ‘em be shackled to their homes forever. No more hope of MEW, no hope of climbing the property ladder, no hope of sharing in future appreciation (as if) - just 38% DTI for the rest of their miserable existance. Heck, you could probably rent that house for less than the 38% and be free to do whatever your heart pleases, like buy at the absolute bottom. But for these FB’s, now that the PTB are starting to see the moral hazard of debt forgiveness, it’s all about deferred principal payoffs. For the smart FB’s, as soon as they realize they went from screwed to really screwed, they’ll walk anyway. Better to take bad credit for a few years and buy at the bottom than be bailed out and imprisoned to a home for decades.
Good thing that honest and responsible people don’t get anything out of this!
Let’s all go out there and “buy” a house and not make payments on it! Hahaha… argh…
Warning to all potential homebuyers:
Never move into a house on a street named after conspicuous consumption, such as “Prosperity Street” and what not. That is a guarantee that the builder knew it was selling into a speculative rush. Look for streets named after the girlfriends and pets of the civil engineers who planned the grid. Those are the developments that were built organically as a part of a regular growth pattern.
What about all the places that were named after what was destroyed to build them? You know: “Oak Grove” no longer has oaks, “Aspen Hills” no long has aspen or hills, “Meadowlake” paved over both the meadow and the lake, etc.
“Buyers who purchase a Villa or Casitas unit at the resort cannot live there year-round. Villa owners can stay at their units for 90 days out of the year, and Casitas owners for 60 days. For the remainder of the time, they can rent their units out to the public at the going market rate. ‘You can enjoy the pride of ownership and the benefits of ownership because you’re renting it out,’ said Dan Cooke, Terranea’s director of sales and marketing.”
Yep, I want to buy a place for 2.65 million that I can only visit for 60 days out of 365. Sounds like a smart investment to me, of course this fellow is an investment adviser. What the hell do I know.
P.S. What’s a Casitas, the only reference I found was, ‘a gay guest house’. So it’s a house for happy people?
It’s supposed to be the diminutive of casa as in “little house” as in tin-pot-little-f*ckin’-thing-for-which-you-pay-$600K.
I noticed that too. A casita is a little house. Could be a guest house, a cottage, or single-unit hotel room. So two casitas would be two of those. But what is “a casitas”?
‘You can enjoy the pride of ownership and the benefits of ownership because you’re renting it out,’ said Dan Cooke, Terranea’s director of sales and marketing.”
For 60 freakin’ days???? For 2.65 million???
OMIGOD THAT IS SO INSANE.
What’s the matter with people????
And what moron would take that guy’s advice????
Yup, Nothing says “Pride of Ownership” like having other people splooging all over your belongings most of the year.
None of that deal makes any sense to me. Why can’t the “owner” live there as much as they want? There is no apparent benefit to anyone in this arrangement. Who profits from this, and how?
“Because of plunging home values, almost 90 percent of homeowners here owe more on their mortgages than their houses are worth, according to figures released Monday. That is the highest percentage in the country.”
Is it safe to guess that more than a few of these folks are underwater by over 10 percent, given the 40 percent YOY decline in used home sales prices recently reported by the CAR? How will the facts square with mortgage restructuring that is only available to loan owners less than 10 pct underwater?
I thought you had to be AT LEAST 10 percent underwater to qualify?
Meh. That is soooooooooo early 2008.
Party on, Garth!!!
“To qualify, borrowers would have to be at least three months behind on their home loans, and would need to owe 90 percent or more than the home is currently worth.”
I see that I misconstrued the terms. “Owe 90 percent or more” translates into having a 10 pct or less equity cushion. All underwater or near-underwater loanowners qualify, provided they are three months or more behind on their payments.
Got perverse incentives???
They “recover” quickly. What tense is that? It’s not future tense, so I can’t tell whether this guy is making a prediction or not. What’s that you say? OH! CYA tense. Now I understand.
I preferred the King of RE in American Beauty:
Buddy Kane: [Carolyn is having sex in a motel room with the Real Estate King] Do you like getting nailed by the King?
Carolyn Burnham: Yes, your majesty!
“But the coastal areas recover quickly.”
Did their recovery of the 30’s occur in the 40’s and 50’s like everywhere else? I do believe they’ll recover faster, but that recovery could be a decade or more away. It will not be fast.
“‘By next June, if things aren’t better, I’m walking,’ Mr. Martinez said.”
You may as well walk now, Mr. Martinez, and beat the rush.
Once a sheep, always a sheep. The party’s been over for 18 months now.
I feel some kind of a t-shirt slogan coming on.
Me too. How about, “Dude, where’s MY bailout?”
Yeah, where is the HBB gift shop? Ben could make a bunch of t-shirts and the like to celebrate the fall of the housing mania. Hey, Ben, maybe you could sell that concession to somebody else and make a few bucks in the process. That is, if you don’t have the time. It seems like this site alone could have sold a lot reasonably priced merchandise for Christmas.
Did you notice how I threw in “reasonably priced”? We aren’t suckers that pay $60 for a t-shirt because some douche bag designer put their name on a Fruit of the Loom t-shirt.
Did you talk to Harm about making this shirt?
Harm, if you do the honors I will buy one!
Classic monkey behavior. These ARMS were made for walkin’!
… and that’s just what they’ll do.
One of these days those ARMs
will choke the breath
right out of you.
Or “You Can’t Hug Your Children With Option ARMs”
“‘By next June, if things aren’t better, I’m walking,’ Mr. Martinez said.”
Stop paying now. It will be worse in June, not better. There’s little chance of having to leave before next June, possibly much longer.
“Local realty agents expect Ventura home sales will rebound fairly quickly. ‘In the last month I’ve gotten a lot of calls from prospective home buyers,’ says Janet Caminite, a real estate agent at Sotheby’s International Realty. ‘They are not writing offers right now, but the fact that they are inquiring is a good sign.’”
What kind of sign is it that the top NBER economist just acknowledged the economy is in a recession which many informed commentators suggest will not end until at least the end of next year? Do local Ventura realty agents expect home sales to rebound fairly quickly against the backdrop of a recession? Or did they fail to receive the NBER memo?
Yes, the answer is 42.
Or did you want an intelligent response?!?
“Last year Merced Paseo… proposed a 142-home subdivision at G Street and Bellevue Road. The neighborhood’s driveways are paved, the streets have names and wiring sprouts from the ground. The only parts missing are the homes.’
…and the trees and/or farmland that was there before. That, too, is now missing.
Actually, I don’t know if there were trees or farms there before, maybe there was a sooper ugly building or a parking lot that got torn down, in which case I don’t care. What has made ME so sad in all this is the rampant despoliation of the natural world.
(from the same article)
“A hearing on whether the bank, if successful in its case, can seize the personal assets of Todd Bender, the head of Merced Paseo… Don Drummond, the developer’s San Francisco-based attorney, also declined to elaborate on his defendant’s side. ‘We’re in litigation. We’re duking it out,’ he said. ‘May the best man win.’”
What!? There IS no ‘best’ man in this. You’re ALL ‘worse and even worser’ wretched greedy assh*les!
The optimal outcome in this is that the court makes a judicious evaluation and then calls up Bigfoot on the phone and summons him to come eat Todd Bender, Don, oh, heckfire, just eat them ALL. Using a hacksaw and a salad fork! And NO mushrooms or apertifs! Or napkins, even, is how serious this is!
Hey, all those 175K first year Med School and Business School turned Law School graduates gotta be paid. How else is Michelle Obama supposed to be paid $900K a year for a community diversity outreach part time job hospital administrator job?
The Socialism backbone bureaucracy is in place. You pay so they can retire at age 55 like they were still working full time.
It is a law school factory out there. And their wages will be tacked onto to the costs of everything.
Have Big V do it.
http://muppet.wikia.com/wiki/Big_V
Was in Oly yesterday, and laughed at the condos they just broke ground on at the corner of Union and Capitol.
I hear yah, Olympiagal.
Humanity will not cease until everything has been paved over and the starving masses look at the concrete purgatory that they have created and dumbly wonder, “Duh… why isn’t this shopping mall/McMansion edible? And where did my air and water go?”
Down here in Maryland, they are still busy cutting down trees to put in new commercial real estate because, you know, that wasn’t in a Bubble or anything… right… and everything finished within the past year sits empty as glorious monuments to waste, but they keep on building and destroying…
People were vulnerable to fraud, or vulnerable to committing fraud? What’s that word again that people use to describe those who are vulnerable to committing fraud again? What was it? What was it again, “menaces to society”?
And you are apparently an ESL dropout as well.
Nice.
‘First American CoreLogic, a real estate data company, has calculated that 7.6 million properties in the country were underwater as of Sept. 30, while another 2.1 million were in striking distance. That is nearly a quarter of all homes with mortgages. The 20 hardest-hit ZIP codes are all in four states: California, Florida, Nevada and Arizona.
“Most people pay very little attention to what their equity stake is if they can make the mortgage,” said First American’s chief economist, Mark Fleming. “They think it’s a bummer if the value has gone down, but they are rooted in their house.”
And yet the magnitude of the current declines has little precedent. “When my house is valued at 50 percent less than it was, does this begin to challenge the way I’m going to behave?” he said.’
Once collective denial gives way to the realization that many homes are off peak value by over 50 percent, can we expect mass walkaways soon thereafter?
Professor Bear,
I’m not arguing that there *won’t be… but again look at how heavily concentrated the damage is? Granted, “to ‘this’ point” and I hate to keep hammering on this but how is this ‘not’ a local problem?
Obviously it’s gone global from a credit perspective, but 20 Zip Codes in (4) states?
“…how is this ‘not’ a local problem?”
You have been reading and posting here for quite some time. Apparently you have noticed how all of Ben’s posts and the articles the rest of us post here are about California and Florida. So as you suggest, the problem is really quite limited, contained, and decoupled.
Professor Bear,
Now I never said it was “contained” LOL! And obviously it’s too big too bail? I just wonder if we won’t look back at this thing a few years hence and really kick ourselves for being herded toward a frantic bail out pahlooza based on the actions largely confined to handful of zips/counties?
All of the leverage/derivatives can really distort the picture. When Merrill has a dollar in cash for every 30 in assets I think we get an idea of the scale. I suppose if billions and billions of dollars were bet on a HS football game, the outcome becomes exponentially more important?
( I’m trying to have a “breakthrough moment” here! )
I follow my hometown listings. There are currently just under 200 properties listed for sale on ZIP Realty. Of those properties for sale more than 20 percent are foreclosures. That is in Minnesota. This thing is loco, not local.
Professor Bear,
At the risk of a duplicate post, I’ve just gotten concerned that we’re being cattle prodded into buying into the “Endless Bailout” when in truth the problem was for the most part highly concentrated.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point. As I see it, there is much price discovery yet to come which will reveal home price devaluation which is currently hidden from view. I especially expect Manhattan prices to follow California’s into the crapper, thanks to a looming bloodbath in the financial sector.
Rather than pointlessly argue when the evidence is inconclusive, let’s agree to compare notes in two years to see who was right.
Rumor has it that 5,000 will be let go at Morgan Stanley this Thursday (11/13).
This is a rather precise prediction. Either it is true or it is false. There’s very little room here for “prediction maneuvring”.
I have a former co-worker that went to work for MS. I could ask him but I don’t want to stress the poor guy out. I guess we will find out Friday. There will be tears aplenty on Stone Street.
“They think it’s a bummer if the value has gone down, but they are rooted in their house.”
How rooted are they in that house if they’ve only been in it 2 or 3 years or less and have ruinous payments? Why would all but a very few that bought near the peak not walk away? Unless one has money to burn, there’s little reason for this group of buyers not to walk.
“Kenny Rogers . . . has cut his DVD buying from 50 a month . . . and . . . does not indulge much anymore in his hobbies of scuba diving and flying.”
This sounds pretty serious folks.
Seriously. I hope he has the inner fortitude to carry on.
If he doesn’t, and he jumps, I wanna see the “splat” on Youtube! (oh wait! will there be internet during GD 2?)
Yeah ( talk about a smut addiction? ) I’m pretty sure there aren’t 50 NEW “blockbuster” movies coming out a month?
LOL @ comment.
But maybe he was a “movie buff” (yeah, right!)
If he’s buying 50 porn DVDs a month, he must have calluses on it…….
Did you hear about the 13 year old that got into Grandad’s Viagra?
Third degree burns on both hands……
Gives “Fists of Fury” a whole new meaning doesn’t it?
I’m a huge fan of Italian horror and spaghetti westerns and I love it when a genre “plays out” and they have to become more outlandish with each new release. But even at that, there were just so many in total?
“Did you hear about the 13 year old that got into Grandad’s Viagra?
Third degree burns on both hands……”
And the family’s Puggle now suffers from post traumatic stress disorder.
Oh I dunno, between 50 editions of “Realtors gone Wild”, “Naughty Appraisers” and “Mortage Broker Bondage 1,2 & 3″ I can see picking up a few DVD’s.
But why do it now when you can get them for pennies for the armful!
Deflating Double-D’s, baby!!!
It’s just like the Great Depression. What next - no high speed internet and all premium cable channel combo?
That would be an outrage. No American should have to choose between movie channels.
Correction — “No premium American should have to choose between movie channels.” Responsible people who live within their means and make forward-looking decisions should get nothing and like it.
Right. I stand corrected.
Wrong, you sit corrected.
How do you know I’m sitting? Wait, I don’t want to know…
See? You’re learning already.
No more Dog Psychologists, aromatherapy, or life coaches, either.
Before long, we’ll be back to wearing animal skins and living in caves.
“Your Majesty, the peasants are revolting!!”
“Yeah, they stink on ice….”
Aw, Fixer, you’re so mean. There are some people who just can’t figure out life without a coach.
“What Got Us Into This Mess”
How are the chances looking for BO to move towards saner housing policy, which rewards sound household financial decisions rather than mass folly, given that his newly-anointed Chief of Staff was central to what got us into this mess?
Emanuel Was Director Of Freddie Mac During Scandal
New Obama Chief of Staff, Others on Board, Missed “Red Flags” of Alleged Fraud Scheme
By BRIAN ROSS and RHONDA SCHWARTZ
November 7, 2008
President-elect Barack Obama’s newly appointed chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, served on the board of directors of the federal mortgage firm Freddie Mac at a time when scandal was brewing at the troubled agency and the board failed to spot “red flags,” according to government reports reviewed by ABCNews.com.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss…….
No, he’s not same as the old boss. I agree that none of them seem to have a grasp on this housing thing, but the differences are huge. Tax structure, stem-cell research, war, Guantanamo, offshoring, guns, freedom of information. Huge.
I think it has to do with the company you keep.
I live in an area that didn’t “benefit” much, if any, from the stock/internet bubble, or the Late Great Housing Bubble, and work around people who basically have to work for a living. So I’ve been watching the last 5-6 years, trying to figure out how these people were defying gravity.
I guess if the only people you know are con artists and cheerleaders, that would affect your view of things.
For asll the whining about them, I’m curious to see what Obama and the Democrats are going to do with all our “guests” in Guantanamo. Sure, some that were detained for flimsy reasons will be released. But what are you going to do with the others? Attempt to put them on trial in US courts? What an effing joke……that circus would go on for 20 years.
I suggest they send them to San Francisco. Newsom has a program where the city pays $1,000 per month to house illegal alien felons in a San Bernadino half-way facility. It was a local scandal around here.
I have to assume that in areas where BO is weak (like economics and housing), he will defer to the guidance of his advisers.
OT…
“Obviously he [Rahm Emanuel] will influence the president to be pro-Israel. Why wouldn’t he be? What is he, an Arab? He’s not going to clean the floors of the White House.”
-Benjamin Emanuel
“When I called Wachovia, they said they hadn’t gotten any bailout money”
Well I don’t give a sweet m@therf*ck if they have or hadn’t! Jeebus, so THAT’s how this thing is going to work? If ‘we’ didn’t get any free love off our rich uncle ( Sam ) we got no love to spread around?
Is this pathetic or what. So they whole “loan mod” or workout deal that they ramped up for ( in ‘late’ September no less ) already has the wheels coming off? Gosh, I guess these people had best hope their loan was through a lender big enough to feed at the bailout trough?
That’s right, D. If the taxpayers aren’t covering it, then it ain’t covered. Weird, huh?
Evidently so? I thought all this talk of hope and change, and change and hope meant there would at least be a good faith effort on the part of lenders to work with borrowers.
So if this is truly coming in a very direct fashion from the taxpayers, who needs the banks as a pivot man in a circle j@rk?
Of course the wheels are coming off and here’s why. They don’t own any or most of the loans anyway. They were chopped and sold to the
Mafinternational investors. If they change contractual terms on loans they don’t own they will truly be giving away free money to lawyers and the investors who own those loan securities.They weren’t all dumb enough to hold all of that crap. Talk about making illiquid loans even more illiquid by modifying individual loans in those tranches! Yeah, what’s here on the 2025 80th grade preferred modified principle re-fixed re-financed 9.5-6.3% Class A, Sub B loan lot? Uhhh, the what? Where’s that originate from? Uh, various areas of the Western United States, “mostly”.
You’ll take a “class” of creditors and turn them into tens of thousands of “classes”. Hey, there literally goes your neighbor’s mortgage loan on the ticker tape @ $0.01.
That door was chopped from my stolen Benz! No, that’s your 2006 Benz hood, this is my 2005 Benz door! Well you can’t sell my hood with your door! Now imagine a new class action lawsuit for every loan you modify. For them to modify any meaningful amount of loans, they would literally have to buy that SHIT back first. Do the suckers who got bamboozled with this Junk that was said to be “AAA” really want to get fucked, again? And again and again? It’s much easier to take the underlying House asset and deal with selling that, for everybody.
We sold ‘em to the Europeans. They were dumb enough to buy ‘em. You want a modification? Go get a Barrister. All that international Sub-Prime and Alt-A mortgage financing AIN’T NEVER COMING BACK. It’s nice that the government wants banks to start loaning again, but 75% of the people originating those loans with implicit international financing are GONE, FOR GOOD.
Who’s going to lend that kind of money when people can just walk away from their obligations? There’s zero trust. And frankly any bank careless and negligent enough to lend to statistically likely deadbeats in this environment should have it’s board of directors jailed, and their civil assets confiscated to reimburse shareholders.
You tell it, Crook.
Nice post.
I’m gonna go get me one of them writedowns on my mortgage. Sounds like a good deal. I’m gonna show 10 friends how to do it and so on and so on and so on…
KR,
I think a lot of the comments of late ( meaning so far this week ) tend to indicate to me anyway, the PTB have come to realize there won’t be any propping up of home prices.
They’re retreating on that too. I think they finally get it. Since they can’t salvage the banks, home prices AND consumption they’re now willing to admit that 2 out of 3 ain’t bad? By working furiously to get house payments down through “mods” they’ll create more discretionary income. IMHO
From the original post:
“No more family bowling night. No more dinners at Chili’s or Applebee’s. No more going to the movies. ‘We make decent money, but it takes a tremendous amount to pay the mortgage,’ Mr. Martinez said.”
“Kenny Rogers moved into Mountain House last year, buying a foreclosed property on Prosperity Street for $380,000. But the decline in values has been so fierce that he too is underwater. He has cut his DVD buying from 50 a month to perhaps one, and is waiting until the Christmas sales to buy a high-definition television. He does not indulge much anymore in his hobbies of scuba diving and flying. ‘Best to wait for a better price, or do without,’ Mr. Rogers said.”
“The Martinezes bought their house in early 2005 for $630,000. It is now worth about $420,000. They have an interest-only mortgage. In 2015, Mr. Martinez said, his monthly payments will be $12,000 a month. He laughed and shook his head at the absurdity of it. They rent movies. They play board games. (But not Monopoly — with its real estate theme, it reminds them too much of real life.)”
To which I say, I came from a family that seldom ate out, rarely went to the movies, and, to this day, watches very little television. So, it must be in my genetic code, because I can’t muster any sympathy for the above “victims.”
When we ate out, it was always someplace like Sizzler. A huge trough-like place whose food you could live off of for a week.
It’s actually a wonder I’m in shape and not a diabetic.
My parents were from another country so “Taco Bell” was exotic dining to them. Maybe that explains why I see so many Asians at Taco Bell in the bay area.
Why on earth would anyone go to a Taco Hell in the Bay Area?
The Bay Area is literally filled with some of the most delicious taquerias on this planet where you can eat like a veritable God and not have to pay more than $10! In fact, if there’s one thing I miss about CA every single time is those luscious luscious foods that you can get in the taquerias.
The Bay Area has HORRIBLE Mexican food. Have you ever been to San Diego? That’s the only place where Mexican food is good. San Diego and Baja California.
Besides, Taco Bell isn’t for people who want Mexican food. It’s for people who want Taco Bell. Personally, I love it.
Depends on your Bay Area. I don’t have problems going east of 101.
Of course, my sister drives a cr@ppy Honda and we look borderline destitute so we kinda fit in.
There are many great places but not places you can take your BMW to.
Agreed. I fondly recall little drive through places in San Diego, like Alberto’s, where for about $3.50 (fifteen years ago, anyway), you could absolutely stuff yourself with quesadillas at 2:30 in the morning.
We have good stuff in LA but its hard to find your way around to the places.
San Diego is a bit easier.
I thought there was some good stuff in the southbay/san jose area.
TB… like it but too much transfat.
Guys:
San Diego Mexican food is WAY WAY WAY WAY better than BA or LA Mexican food. I live east of the 101. I used to live in San Jose. There’s nothing good around here. They don’t even make rolled tacos. I found one place that makes them, but they are no good. Everyone else always tries to sell me a flauta. It’s all stupid stuff with too much salt and very little seafood available. They also charge at least twice as much out here for everything.
Chille rellenos? They’re all yucky. Fish tacos? Only at a few froo-froo places that don’t know how to make white sauce and don’t understand that fish tacos utilize FRIED, not grilled, fish. There is one decent taco place in Menlo Park, but they hate white people and try to give you lemons instead of limes.
You have to remember that your average American tastes can’t take authentic cuisines, therefore we have Taco Bell, Rubios, etc. Same with Japanese food, California Roll was invented for the bland tastes of Americans.
I live East of 101 too and am looking for good places to eat. Not too much so far. Really easy to get Banh Mi though, which was not as easy back in Maryland, so it’s all good.
So was the Fortune Cookie (for those scoring at home).
I’ve got two taquerias within a 5 minute walk, one of which never closes and the other that’s open all but maybe 4 hours a day. They’re much better than any Taco Bell.
The Mexican food in San Diego is better than Los Angeles and much better than San Francisco, though I’d say the differences between LA and SD have less to do with food quality and more to do with safety (not having to go into the ‘hood) and availability.
The taco stands in San Diego are everywhere with many having hours comparable if not longer than diners.
“No more family bowling night. No more dinners at Chili’s or Applebee’s. No more going to the movies. ‘We make decent money, but it takes a tremendous amount to pay the mortgage,’ Mr. Martinez said.”
Okay, of the businesses soon going away, who said Chili’s or Applebee’s? Did anyone have Dave and Busters?
sleepless,
Well… now that you mention it! Mrs. DinOR talked me into going to the Linen & Things big Going Out Of Business Sale and I finally said ( in a voice loud enough for others to hear ) where everything was marked down an amazing TEN %!
“If they’re going out of business, they don’t seem to be in any par-tic-u-lar -hurry- to go out of business..?”
Immediately thereafter we went to Applebees and man… was THAT a mistake. They’re on this limited menu and the food and service totally sucked. Obviously nothing rosy in either’s future. They replaced my wife’s “crispy” shrimp but by that time lunch was ruined. This must be the case as former military people seldom complain about food?
Yeah, Applebees has always sucked. They deserve to die a sucky death.
Then you’ll be overjoyed that a new Applebees is opening at The Plant on Curtner and Monterey Highway ?
I’ve got you beat - a new Circuit City is opening near where my parents live… hahaha… somehow, I think it’ll be a nice, empty husk of a building for years to come!
My Father in Law is a GM for a franchise group. They are starting to lay off and close restaurants this week. 180 People laid off yesterday and today and closed 3 restaurants this week. More to come this month. He is worried that once he is done laying off everyone, he will be the next to go.
This is in LA and OC, by the way…..
It is clearly time for a bailout of the franchise restaurant industry. We dined at California Pizza Kitchen tonight, and at least 1/3 of the tables were unoccupied during peak dining hours. More generally, I have not dined in a restaurant that was full to capacity in months — a drastic change from one year ago when waiting lines at every San Diego dining establishment were a given. I personally believe the franchise restaurant industry is a far more valuable contributor to the San Diego economy than anything that comes out of Detroit or NYC. Further, it would most likely take a far smaller slice of $700 bn to keep the franchise restaurant industry afloat than it will cost to keep Big Auto Mfg and Megabank Inc in the green.
10%?? I think Bed, Bath, and Beyond has better deals right now at like 20-50% off and they’re not even outta biz, to my knowledge.
Good onya for pointing out their absurdity. They can’t even go out of business correctly, let alone stay in business.
Boscov’s was the same way. They jacked up their prices and then “lowered” them when going out of business, resulting in the absurdity of competing stores (Penny’s, Macy’s, etc.) in the SAME MALL having better prices?! But even more ironically, the only store that was full was Boscov’s?!
And by clicking on the article we find more of what was predicted:
““Before summer, things were O.K. Not now,” said My Phan of Hailey Nails and Spa. “Customers say they cannot afford to do their nails.” She estimated her business had fallen by half.
At Cribs, Kids and Teens, Jason Heinemann says his business is also down 50 percent. He opened the store in early 2006; last month was his worst ever. “Grandparents are big buyers of kids’ furniture, but when their 401(k)’s are dropping $10,000 and $20,000 a week, they don’t come in,” he said.
.
.
There is a shuttered Linens ’n Things, part of a chain that went bankrupt. Another empty storefront used to be a Fashion Bug. Soccer World could not make it. Shoe Pavilion is festooned with going-out-of-business signs.”
Shoe Pavilion? Aren’t they the Sprawl-mart of shoes? That’s bad. Then again, Sprawl-mart has shoes, too.
“Sprawl-mart” I like it!
My SIL worked at Shoe Pavillion in college, I know HE won’t miss ‘em!
Your sister-in-law is a HE? Wow!
I’m still bummed that Planet Hollywood didn’t make it.
I’ll place my bets on Dave and Busters, crappy overpriced food and expensive games. As corporations cut back on employee events which D&B’s caters to they will be devastated. Oddly enough Chuck-E-Cheeses just keeps going as frazzled parents take their screaming brats there for a few hours of bad pizza and awful beer in relative peace.
We’ve got Jillians here in Norfolk. It is similar to D&B. The games use the card system to obscure how much you are paying to play. I believe Jillians as a whole already went through financial issues a while ago. Wish I knew how the local one was doing. We went there 2 weeks ago on a weeknight and were commenting how they had to be loosing money. But they are a bar, and likely fill up on Friday night and the weekends.
My days of paying $5-6 for a pint of beer at bars are over, I drink at home and have better beer to boot !
They serve beer at Chuckycheeses?
How else do you think parents make it through these kids’ parties?
Funny, funny, funny. (but true.)
I went to D&B’s once in San Diego. It was awesome; video games, alcohol and no kids allowed. I don’t recall the food being special, choked some of it down to fuel the machine.
But I wouldn’t pay for that place out of my own pocket. A vendor (actually, we were testing their product and they really wanted in our company, it could have been a huge win for them if their product was better) was footing the bill for the video games and to get us all liquored up.
I smell an ethics violation!
I don’t care cuz, well, I don’t. But I just went through some sorta video at my company, so I had to point it out.
Fannie, Freddie Boost Effort to Minimize Foreclosures (Update2)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aD7hLBeRwNu8&refer=home
The number of times the loans can be modified is without limit. Nothing in this article talks about docs, but I am assuming the govt. will verify this time around.
Sometimes I wish I didn’t have integrity.
They could take a page out of the Ronald Reagan playbook. You know, the one that says, “Trust, but verify.”
“…but I am assuming the govt. will verify this time around.”
Wouldn’t that conflict with their mission of housing people in homes they cannot afford?
LOL!
Why, yes - exactly.
What we have seen is leadership by a cabal of jackasses and dunces.
Fine. I can compromise on rewriting loan terms to 40 and even 50 years to get the slaves to keep making those “lower” monthly payments. But if I don’t get a $2M house in Northbrook for $250K cash, I’m not walking away, I’m crashing the international monetary system. And then you will lose your fractional reserve banking counterfeiting toy. I didn’t sit on the sidelines for NOTHING. “Somebody’s got to pay; ain’t gonna be me.” –Wallstreet
You can take that $7.5K FB delayed tax write-off loan and stick it in your bottom!
The loans will be modified endlessly until the people never pay anything more than the teaser rate. After that, the government will just need a way to declare a minimum ratio of housing payments to income - something like 49% will work nicely in Amerika - and we’re all good!
Fore!
closed
“Ten days ago, the Golf Club of California closed. In an e-mail sent at 3:20 a.m. on Oct. 30, General Manager Kay McLaughlin, representing her family’s Korean ownership group, informed members that Halloween would be the last day the club would be available for play. Member dues were suspended as of Nov. 1. Lockers were to be cleared out immediately.”
That’s just par for the course.
BWAHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
dang, there goes another rockslide across the valley…next time, give me some warning so I can film it, huh Puddytat?
(I just make these posts cause I like to call you Puddytat, thanks, NYCB)
Who needs rocks anyway? Those are all in your head.
Baaaaaaad puddytat….
LOL
It’s OK, the Puddytat thinks he’s in New York, but he’s actually a figment of my imagination, just like the rocks he mentions…prove me wrong, Puddytat…
I didn’t say the rocks were a figment of your imagination; I just said that they were in your head.
Oh, jeez, I actually probably am imagining I’m back in Utah again, dangitall. Last time I did this they came after me with those dang electrode thingys…shoots and so much for getting all better and all, dangit.
But I bet I can still qualify for a mortgage…
Don’t worry, BO, Stammerin’ Hank, Bushie the Chimp and company will be along with a mulligan any time now. Just you hold your breath while you wait…
The root cause is over consumption.
Over consumption is bad. It is taking from others just for your own pleasure. Making a habit out of this behavior is distractive.
Under consumption and saving is good. It is giving to others in case they need help. And any of us might be on the receiving side at some point in time.
So who is to blame here?
No, it is not realtors, mortgage brokers, investment bankers, appraisals, and rating agents. It is not even because of David, Ben and Alan. It is because all of us humans. We could have said no thanks – but we didn’t. We ate too much and now we are sick.
We should devalue over consumption status symbols like we did to cigarette smoking and fur coats.
And no it is not socialism. Socialism is taking from the rich and sharing the wealth. We must maintain free enterprise and capitalism. We don’t need any new laws. If giving will be valued by society instead of consumption, the rich will compete on giving. The values society dictates the individuals’ behavior. Dig inside and ask yourself – why did I buy that Lexus?
Once this is understood and practiced by the vast majority we will be able to move on. Until then, we are stuck with this Bulimia nervosa and more and more pain.
What pain? Who’s getting pained? Yeah, I’m an FB and I need a Tylenol to assuage the agony of living in my house for free for a year and then moving into a perfectly nice rental, which I can easily afford. I need a palliative to dull the smarting caused by having to work for a middle class (read lowly) income because I am a high-school dropout and a bimbo who can’t really make a decent living using my talents. It’s a freaking malady, I tell you. SOMEONE HAND ME A PILL ALREADY!
“Under consumption and saving is
good”…punishable by redistribution policies which reward those who overconsumed at the expense of those who did not.
Actually, I beg to differ. Our current brand of “Socialism” is taking from the middle class and sharing the wealth among the already rich. Where do these big Wall Street bonus dollars come from? Us– trickled up from our wage-based “contributions”. Here’s an actual definition of the word of the month:
Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization advocating state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods, and the creation of an egalitarian society.
The weather is lousy today, and it won’t really improve much until next April. Oh well, might as well stop by the local cafe, the only one in town. I couldn’t help over-hearing several men talking politics, specifically the differences between Bill Clinton and George W Bush. One guy just couldn’t get past Clinton being a womanizer. Another guy was trying explain that the mess Clinton left behind pales to Dubya and his economic strip mining of the U.S. and its citizens. It didn’t matter, the first guy simply couldn’t get past the term, womanizer. Any attempt to discredit Dubya’s administration was met with programmed responses like, “When you point a finger at someone, you have three pointed at yourself!” There were several other “burnt-in” responses that I can’t completely recall. This is an adult man with a virtually impenetrable firewall powered by a pious cpu containing 16th century code. I’m sure some preacher is really proud of himself and the frontal lobotomy that he performed on one of his flock. Yessiree, another f***ing winter in Small Town, USA.
LOL!! Hows about a vacation, maybe come on out to Utah???
Shoots, it just occurred to me that you’re probably already IN Utah…
Central WA state, east of the Cascades. There are many nice things about the area, but the inverse relationship of education v. religion really stands-out; eyes wide shut!
Go back to California, then!!!
While Clinton had terrible taste in women and exhibited very poor judgement in his dalliances at least he wasn’t cruising airport men’s rooms or trying to bugger page boys while claiming to have conservative values.
The guy that I felt the worst for in that whole insane episode was the poor officer that had to SIT in that stall for hours on end! I’m totally serious. The guy was puking in his mouth when he explaind his testimony.
There HAS to be a better way to curtail that in public places. Do we have to get floor to ceiling partitions and then ask for the key?
I have never liked either of the Clintons, but I did appreciate the way his administration would leak a policy-idea to the press, and gauge the public’s reaction. Dubya never cared about public reaction since he was always right, “My way or the highway!”
“You’re either wid us or agin us.”
RIP, Yellowstone Club…
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27652953/from/ET/
Any secret to getting links by this filter? It won’t let me do it. The Yellowstone Club just went BK. Looks like the super wealthy aren’t immune after all.
Yellowstain Club?
They can call the US Treasury for a Federal bailout!
Post the link and replace the periods with the word “dot”, like yellowstone dot com, everyone knows how to work it and the filter won’t block it.
Good idea, losty. Here it is:
wwwdotmsnbcdotmsndotcom/id/27652953/from/ET/
Holy cow is that ugly.
RE: The Yellowstone Club just went BK. Looks like the super wealthy aren’t immune after all.
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE4AA65820081111?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=23&sp=true
Weren’t hedge fund investments pretty much limited to the super rich? When hedges get trimmed, so do super rich net worths.
Wow. Just a couple years ago they were the quintessential successful resort development. Catered to CEOs, multi-million dollar net worth needed to join.
This still drives me batty!
“No more family bowling night. No more dinners at Chili’s or Applebee’s. No more going to the movies. ‘We make decent money, but it takes a tremendous amount to pay the mortgage,’ Mr. Martinez said.”
…
“The Martinezes bought their house in early 2005 for $630,000. It is now worth about $420,000. They have an interest-only mortgage. In 2015, Mr. Martinez said, his monthly payments will be $12,000 a month. He laughed and shook his head at the absurdity of it.
The problem isn’t that their house is worth less than they paid. The problem is he bought a house he couldn’t possibly afford with a time-bomb mortgage. Why are they painting a sympathetic picture of him?
Fortunately, if he doesn’t have a second mortgage, he can simply walk away. That (most likely) was the terms of the mortgage: The house is what guarantees the mortgage, and there’s no recourse beyond that. So his only loss is the fact that he was probably paying a higher “rent” than he had to. Boo hoo hoo.
But we’re beating a dead horse. These folks will get all sorts of handouts and perks over and above what they now get: no recourse, no tax on forgiven mortgage debt, the ability to declare bankruptcy and start over. (Isn’t that enough?)
He probably did have a second mortgage, but I’m sure he won’t have to pay it. He will probably file bankruptcy and get off scott free. He’ll have a car, a bunch of new clothes, a really fancy saw, and a bad credit score. He’ll probably put all his cash in his mom’s name, then walk away from his house and laugh at the bank that was stupid enough to lend him the money. Totally not a victim.
New client married a guy with lousy credit three years ago. At his urging, she signed–alone–for a very large mortgage, claiming salaried income of $325,000 per year as a “real estate assistant” to his firm, when she was in fact pregnant and not working. She claimed 15 years prior involvement in this field, when (prior to said pregnancy) she had actually been working in a fundamentally different field, at an unknown income.
Tell me again why we should bail out the investment banks and lenders.
The second most disappointing thing about the election (the first being that 52% of Californians voted to end my marriage) was that both candidate’s economic plans are predicated on the belief that house prices will rise again. They won’t. (Maybe “The South Will Rise Again”, but not house prices.)
these stories are just unbelievable. fortunately, i am not a forgiving individual, and i am enjoying this xmas season of appalling newspaper stories about people who were either tolerated or even celebrated for their misbehavior.
let the chains perish one by one. bye bye circuit city.
do you think kmart and target could collapse? we could become a Republic of McDonald’s and Wal-Mart!
If I bail out the housing industry, automobiles, the investment banks, Freddy and Fannie, etc. with my taxes, that means I have less money to buy, or to pay off my credit cards so I can eventually spend more money. Is a tax payer bailout to prop up existing inefficient models of business which J6P will now avoid a good idea? As a tax payer I am being forced to indirectly invest in industries that have failed, money that I need to live on. Is this deflationary?
Dear Kenny,
You’ve got to know when to hold ‘em & know when to fold ‘em. Now might be a good time to walk away & run. Thank you.
That is all.
The Management.
They play board games. (But not Monopoly — with its real estate theme, it reminds them too much of real life.)
Poetic justice!
Realestate Motto
‘ A fool and his money are soon parted”