November 12, 2008

When You Shrink The Gold Mine In California

The San Francisco Chronicle reports from California. “As home values continue to plunge, the real estate valuation service Zillow said that 20.76 percent of all homes in the nine-county Bay Area are underwater. The rate is much higher than the national average of 1 in 7 homes, or 14.3 percent. That’s because the Bay Area - like most of California - was a classic bubble market. Dale Hirschkorn is among the almost 400,000 Bay Area homeowners with negative equity. He and his partner owe about $610,000 on their bungalow in Oakland’s Maxwell Park neighborhood; the home now is worth about $100,000 less. In their 94619 ZIP code, 23.8 percent of the homes are underwater, according to Zillow.”

“Hirschkorn had planned to retire next year, until the combination of his swooning equity and the stock market collapse that wiped out some of his retirement accounts. Now, he’ll wait until he’s 65 - but some other plans may be on hold, too. ‘When we retired, we wanted to run a bed & breakfast, maybe in San Luis Obispo,’ he said. ‘We were counting on the equity in the house to give us the down payment. Now that dream is on the very back burner.’”

“Stan Humphries, vice president of data and analytics for Zillow, said Zillow’s estimates are ‘definitely conservative’ because they looked only at original purchase mortgages compared with a home’s current value. These estimates did not consider cash-out refinances, which have become commonplace and would have made the underwater percentages higher.”

“‘Particularly in the past few years, there has been a tendency for people to use their homes as an ATM, pulling out money in a refinancing,’ he said. ‘For homeowners who did that, the amount of equity in their homes is even less than we calculated.’”

The Mercury News. “More Santa Clara County homeowners were dragged ‘underwater’ in the third quarter. Among those who purchased homes in the past five years in the county, 27 percent owed more mortgage debt than their homes were worth in the third quarter. That’s up from 24 percent in the second quarter of this year, according to Zillow.”

“In San Jose…about 14 percent of all homeowners had negative equity in their homes in the most recent quarter. Humphries noted that home values in Santa Clara County cities such as Cupertino and Mountain View finally began to slip in the third quarter. ‘Prior to this quarter we were thinking of those as oases,’ he said.”

“‘If things get really bad next year we might see more . . . people walking away because they owe more than their home is worth,’ said Anne Ramstetter Wenzel, principal at economic research firm Econosystems in Menlo Park. Wenzel said she’s less worried about large-scale ‘walk-aways’ in the valley than she is about the effect of mortgage rates and terms readjusting soon for the many valley residents who took out interest-only loans about five years ago.”

“A new plan to speed the rescue effort for those most in danger of losing their homes was unveiled at a Washington, D.C., news conference. The plan is intended to speed up the process of modifying mortgages to make them more affordable. But not everyone is convinced.”

“‘I’m disappointed,” said Doug Jones, who operates Mortgage Magic in San Jose. Jones said the problem is that many San Jose-area homeowners who got loans with little verification of their income won’t be able to make even the modified payments. Jones has been helping people modify their mortgages, but complained that it has been ‘a knock-down, drag-out struggle’ to get banks to do so. ‘If a customer is not past due, they encourage in a subtle way for the customer to get past due and then they’ll help them. That’s horrible.’”

“Some feel the ‘Streamlined Modification Plan’ won’t do enough to help distressed borrowers, particularly those caught in the sort of subprime or large loans that Fannie and Freddie don’t buy or back. Freddie and Fannie control only about 20 percent of the seriously delinquent mortgages, housing finance agency Director James Lockhart acknowledged. Home loans owned by multiple investors through private-label mortgage securities, which are not affected by the plan, represent 20 percent of all mortgages, but 60 percent of all serious delinquencies.”

“The plan ‘leaves out basically the entire realm of subprime mortgages, which are at the heart of the foreclosure crisis,’ said Tim Lilienthal, a spokesman with a faith-based organizing group advocating a systematic approach to preventing foreclosures.”

The Recordnet. “Existing home sales in San Joaquin County slipped last month from a record high in September. Still, that was the second-best sales month this year, which has been booming primarily because of foreclosure sales. The median monthly sales price rose slightly, moving from $192,000 in September to $194,000 last month. The median sales price for October 2007 stood at $319,000.”

“These days, most foreclosures involve homeowners who are so upside down on their homes - they owe far more than the homes are worth because of the long-term slide in home values - that they no longer want to keep making the monthly payments even though they can still afford to, said Mike Collins of Collins Realty, Stockton.”

“Jerry Abbott, president of Grupe Real Estate, Stockton blamed the drop in prices for causing the major part of the foreclosure market right now. ‘Prices have come down so far from what people paid for their property that they’ll just walk away,’ he said. ‘It’s only a two- or three-year hit on their credit score.’”

The North County Times. “House sales across the region strengthened significantly, increasing 98 percent from a year ago and reaching the highest level for October since 2005, according to…the North San Diego County Association of Realtors. However, housing prices locally were not on the rebound. The region was still mired in the worst real estate recession on record, with prices down 32 percent from a November 2005 peak and foreclosures dictating the market.”

“Further, recent stock market volatility might not have shown up yet in house sales because it typically takes 30 to 45 days to close on a mortgage.”

“‘I think the real guesswork is what’s going to happen to all those listings that aren’t selling. One hundred percent of the buyers are looking at 5 percent of the market,’ said Jim Klinge, a Carlsbad real estate agent. ‘It’ll be muddied waters for a long time to come.’”

The Union Tribune. “Zillow… found that values have fallen 17.9 percent in the past year in San Diego County, while the median price was off 27.2 percent over the same period, as measured by MDA DataQuick. The reason for such a gap: More than a third of homes sold over the past year previously went through foreclosure.”

“Zillow also found that 52.5 percent of San Diego homes sold at a loss in the past 12 months. It said 30.4 percent of all homes – and 51.3 percent of those bought since 2003 – are worth less than their original purchase price. Whether for sale or not, nearly all homes in the county, 92.5 percent, are worth less today than a year ago and 60.2 percent have lost value in the past five years.”

“‘Housing in San Diego has obviously fallen off a cliff,’ said Spencer Rascoff, Zillow’s chief operating officer. ‘San Diego’s home prices are now back where they were in the middle of 2003. You’ve rewound the clock five years in terms of home prices.’”

The Daily Bulletin. “First it was the housing industry, then the financial sector. The Inland Empire economy’s next nemesis: retail job losses. So where can these laid-off workers find new jobs?”

“‘Probably nowhere,’ said John Husing, economist and owner of Redlands-based Economics and Politics Inc. ‘The problem is, the retail sector is shrinking. It’s going to be difficult finding a place to go for somebody working for minimum wage.’”

“The Inland Empire’s battered retail sector will only get worse over the next year because the region’s ‘gold mine’ - the housing industry - is shut down for now. ‘When you shrink the gold mine that brings in money from the outside world, it has ramifications,’ Husing said.”

The Press Enterprise. “In another sign of current economic woes, building permits in Riverside and San Bernardino counties continue to drop. In some cases, it’s more like a plummet. Permit volume in Riverside County is down by more than a third from July through September, the first quarter in the fiscal year, and major planning cases are down by more than half.”

“So far this year, the county has issued 509 residential permits. In 2005, the county issued more than 2,300 and last year just 1,301, said Julie Rynerson Rock, San Bernardino County’s land use services director. George Johnson, director of the Riverside County Transportation and Land Management Department, said the department has seen significant cutbacks. In February, the county laid off more than three dozen engineers, building inspectors and supervisors because of a lack of work. Layoffs also hit the county’s planning staff in July, Johnson said.”

“Johnson said he does not know when the drop might end. ‘I don’t have a crystal ball, either,’ he said. ‘We don’t know when it is going to stabilize.’”

“Riverside County remains at the forefront of the national housing crisis. Four of the top 20 ZIP codes in the nation with the highest percentage of so-called upside-down mortgages are located in the county, according to new data.”

“More than three-quarters, or about 77 percent, of homeowners with mortgages in San Jacinto’s 92582 ZIP code are in a negative-equity position. In Lake Elsinore’s 92532 ZIP code, the figure is 71 percent, compared with 70 percent in Winchester’s 92596 ZIP code and 69 percent in Perris’ 92571 ZIP code.”

“John Marcell, president of the California Association of Mortgage Brokers Education and Research Foundation, said the high number of upside-down loans is troubling. ‘I have clients, past clients — four or five a day — who call and say, ‘John, I need to refinance, but I owe more than my house is worth,’ said Marcell, an Upland mortgage broker. ‘The solution? I don’t know what it is. You are going to have to lower these loans to the point where people can refinance. You are talking huge dollars.’”

The Desert Sun. “In a region suffering from a sluggish economy that has been hit hard by a real estate market downturn, the cadence at a massive real estate auction today and Thursday promises to be quick. Hundreds of homes, condos and vacant land parcels will be sold at roughly three-minute intervals.”

“The auctioneer’s bidding sheet includes never-lived-in or slightly used homes in neighborhoods from the Salton Sea through the Coachella Valley and high desert cities to Joshua Tree. Property in sought-after Indian Wells and Palm Desert, as well as posh coves in Rancho Mirage and Palm Springs. Three model homes with 67 finished lots valued at $20.5 million in La Quinta, with bidding opening at a fraction of the price: $7 million.”

“Starting bids for some homes are as low as a mid-sized car: $20,000 on up to $50,000 in some cases in key cities. Some houses in Palm Desert, for example, have starting bids lower than what it cost to build the house, meaning homes that had previously been listed for $440,000 could go as low as $250,000.”

“Indio resident Nestor Castillo, who lives across the street from a home that will be put on the auction block, said he’s glad the sales are going on. Castillo said the new, two-story home he and his wife just bought in the north Indio neighborhood was a foreclosure property. ‘We paid less than half of what it cost when it was built,’ he said. ‘I like the area. It’s quiet. Gated, and we believe this is the right time to buy a house.’”

“When Robert Watson of Palm Springs learned some of the starting bids for the sale, he said this would be a great time to have some extra cash laying around for investments. A house next to his had been repossessed by the bank six months ago. The multiple listing sheet for the property that was built in 1977 claims a $294,900 list price.”

“It, too, is headed for the auction block with a starting bid of $150,000. At one point, the auction house said the property was valued at up to $406,000. ‘I hate to see it,’ he said. “The neighbors were my friends, and it’s frightening to think what will happen to all our equity on the block.’”




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106 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-12 15:12:26

‘Indio resident Nestor Castillo, who lives across the street from a home that will be put on the auction block…’We paid less than half of what it cost when it was built,’ he said. …we believe this is the right time to buy a house.’

The right time for what? They don’t say if this guy was renting before, but it sounds like a speculator to me. Oh well.

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-12 18:34:50

People still believe in inflation as Inevitable.

I’m voting with Mister Combotechie that inflation is not inevitable even if our govt would like it to be.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-12 19:00:25

+ 17 (= me)

 
Comment by bluprint
2008-11-12 19:10:44

People still believe in inflation as Inevitable

You give those folks too much credit. Buying real estate as a hedge against inflation might be considered a reasonably sound (if currently incorrect) move. But this breed of speclator’s vision is too short and narrow to perceive monetary inflation or what it means or anything else.

They only look at real estate prices right now, compared to a very recent history.

Comment by Robotron
2008-11-13 12:14:26

You guys make every new home buyer to be a speculator. Maybe Mr. Castillo believes it’s the right time to buy a house and start a family.

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Comment by VictorYugo
2008-11-12 15:18:07

“As home values continue to plunge, the real estate valuation service Zillow said that 20.76 percent of all homes in the nine-county Bay Area are underwater. The rate is much higher than the national average of 1 in 7 homes, or 14.3 percent. That’s because the Bay Area - like most of California - was a classic bubble market.”
==============================================================

If a Californian could sell their house for 80% of Zillow, in most cases-they’d be happier than a pig in slop…

So is the number of Bay Aryans underwater more like 25%?

Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-11-12 15:49:41

Zillow is freaking useless. Two houses on my street side by side. One looses $12k this month the other gains $1500. Must be the location. :)

Comment by climber
2008-11-12 17:03:18

Zillow had my house way over valued. I sold it and they dropped it to that price for about a week and now it’s climbing back up again. BS, there’s a nicer house down the street that’s listed for what we had ours listed at and it’s sitting there.

I don’t know what their “algorithm” is, but it’s got some serious bugs.

Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-12 19:32:58

Falling soufflé algorithm: Purchase price/time of ownership plus kitchen remodel - (ATM cash out + depreciation) + (ZIP code * presumed IQ of owner) * stimulus check interest/violent crime index+ 20% HOA dues * BO’s victory margin + $8000 + one ounce of gold + sales commission + appraised value + what neighbors say the house will fetch.

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Comment by rellimgerg
2008-11-12 20:59:08

You forgot to add 42.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-11-13 10:58:39

Their algorithim is simple: “housing always goes up! Until somebody notices that we’re full of it… then we drop the price for a week or two, and then turn it back to always going up…”

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Comment by reuven
2008-11-14 11:20:11

I’ve suspected that Zillow will err on the high end because that’s what people want to see, and they’re all about selling ads!

 
 
Comment by shibbo
2008-11-13 15:12:29

I agree. They had our house way overvalued too when we first put it up on the market. They had it valued at something like $335k. The appraiser valued it at an even $300k. We sold it for just over $250k. Estimates doesn’t seem to be worth much in a falling market. If a house for sale isn’t priced below Zillow’s zestimate, it better have upgrades or else I consider the asking price BS.

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Comment by VictorYugo
2008-11-12 15:27:24

The Pyrites of Empenzance?

“The Inland Empire’s battered retail sector will only get worse over the next year because the region’s ‘gold mine’ - the housing industry - is shut down for now. ‘When you shrink the gold mine that brings in money from the outside world, it has ramifications,’ Husing said.”

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-11-12 16:38:17

You take housing out of the IE equation and no one makes more than $15 a hour. And they blame the problem on foreclosures! Hilarious! Foreclosures are just the end result of a bubble that drove housing prices 10x incomes.

Comment by HARM
2008-11-13 11:45:24

‘Scuse me… 10x incomes? Try nearly 12x HH incomes by 2006 on a *statewide* basis. For the IE, the peak probably came close to 20x incomes.

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 17:07:10

Pour, oh pour, the pirate sherry…

 
Comment by ouro verde
2008-11-12 18:22:00

Lad, is that you?

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-11-12 15:31:19

“Riverside county remains at the forefront of the “national” housing crisis” ( emphasis mine )

I realize that ’somebody’ has to be in the Top 20 Furthest Underwater Zip Codes but when FOUR of them reside in the same county..?

I’m just sayin’.

 
Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-11-12 15:43:31

Three model homes with 67 finished lots valued at $20.5 million in La Quinta, with bidding opening at a fraction of the price: $7 million.”

Soon to be an improper fraction!

 
Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-12 15:46:24

“Now, he’ll wait until he’s 65 - but some other plans may be on hold, too. ‘When we retired, we wanted to run a bed & breakfast, maybe in San Luis Obispo,’ he said. ‘We were counting on the equity in the house to give us the down payment. Now that dream is on the very back burner.’”

-In other words, looks like he will have to work like “regular” people do and hold off on the stupid fantasies. I can’t tell you how many damned people I’ve met who have the same exact plan: Open a Bed and Breakfast and live leisurely lives forever more. Guess what? My Dad actually works at a luxury B and B and it is a PAIN IN THE ASS. So these people probably don’t realize that they’ve been given a favor.

Comment by In Montana
2008-11-12 15:53:58

Time to start rerunning Fawlty Towers again.

Comment by Houstonstan
2008-11-12 19:25:22

You mean “Flowery Twats” ?

(An in joke: At the beginning of each episode it would show the hotel but a pransker would always re-arrange the letters. The above was the only true anagram).

Comment by Kyle
2008-11-13 22:46:23

Or “Farty Towels”

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Comment by DinOR
2008-11-12 16:05:32

jetson_boy,

Amen. Our sleepy little Marion County Oregon has more B&B’s than you can shake a stick at. ( Most are empty much of the year )

What “I” hear when people wander down Fantasy Lane like that is “I realize there’s little if any hope the ‘business’ itself will be ANY success, but with as good as real estate has been to me, turning a profit on this will be a lay up!”

Oh and we’ve seen them ALL try their hand at selling of late! Once in awhile I’ll get a client test me by saying “What do you think of that “cute” B&B over on..?” First thing out of my mouth, “What do the BOOKS look like!?”

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-12 16:21:37

I know exactly what you mean. Most small California towns well outside the realm of the major cities are chock-full of bed and breakfasts. No doubt someone from SF,LA, or some other city visited, got memorized by its “slower lifestyle”, wondered how they could possibly move and work there, and lo and behold- the best ideas they come up with are:

A: Open a stupid worthless shop that sells things like candles, expensive wool socks, or arts and crafts.

B: Open a B and B and live happily ever after.

I myself grew up in a small town, have a Dad who worked (for someone else) at a B and B, and once the allure of not living in a city wears off, running one of these SUCKS. It would be much better if you could find something that the locals actually find useful, like small equipment repair or to supply firewood. Secondly, if you’re some smart-aleck city slicker moving in with all your money, buy some quaint house and turn it into a B and B… the locals will NOT like you one bit. I see that all the time back home.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-12 16:33:03

jetson_boy,

I can plainly see now, it’s the same deal here in OR ( only wetter, ‘much’ wetter ) I HATE B&B’s! I want to stay at one just so I can tuh-rash the damn place!

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Comment by ozajh
2008-11-12 17:18:35

DinOR,

Different strokes for different folks (and perhaps the country makes a difference as well).

I know that when my mother takes a holiday in the UK she will only use a hotel or motel if she CAN’T find a convenient B&B. I have accompanied her once or twice and have to agree with the decision. WAAAAYYY cheaper and usually very nice, quiet facilities.

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-11-12 17:35:37

RE: I HATE B&B’s! I want to stay at one just so I can tuh-rash the damn place!

I dunno Din/OR.

When I went to the UK a couple years to visit old WW II 8th Air Force airfields, I always stayed at B&B’s.

I went in the off-season without reservations.

My plan was always drift into some small village pub around 4/5PM for a pint and get a conversation goin’ with the locals to see if they could refer me to place-which most readily did.

And no matter where I went; when I’d knock on the door and ask if a room was available, invariably the owner’s would reply, “Yes sir, and how much are looking to pay?”

As soon as I’d say, I’m averaging about 40BPS ($80.US) per night-their face would light up and they’d say, “It’s all yours, Yank!”

Never stayed at a place I was disappointed with.

A group I met at the Thorpe Abbotts 100th BG museum who were paying $400/$600 per night for hotel rooms in London, were quite glum when I laid out how negotiable B&B prices were. The grimaces got worse when I noted that the rates always included a free English breakfast.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-11-12 17:50:47

Here I am again in a position that’s about as popular as “clubbing baby seals”?

I’m not saying they don’t have a ‘certain’ place, but that’s just me? Even at close to 50, I’m still all rock n’ roll and when my rock band ( yes rock band ) played a local dive for Halloween, the fight that broke out as we were leaving “made for the perfect evening”.

*Not Missing It mentioned the King of Queens episode but I’m always reminded of the Seinfeld episode where they’re stuck in Vermont? O.K, NOW… what!? I’m always reminded of the story Mick Jagger tells when asked if he and Kieth have ever stayed in the same hotel room? Mick says “No but I have tried to stay at the same -hotel- as Kieth?” It’s just another precedent in aging I… really can’t afford right now.

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 18:04:05

It’s been awhile, but when I was in Britain, I stayed mostly at B&Bs, these were actually just people’s houses and would range from the owners’ bedroom (yup, they retired to the couch) to very nice facilities like you’d expect in a B&B in the US. Very quaint and fun, spent one evening in Scotland learning the secrets of training a good sheep dog from a world champ trainer, that sort of thing.

DinOR, your post reminds me of the old song Life’s Been Good to Me by Joe Walsh:

I have a mansion, forget the price
Ain’t never been there, they tell me it’s nice
I live in hotels, tear out the walls
I have accountants pay for it all

They say I’m crazy but I have a good time
I’m just looking for clues at the scene of the crime
Life’s been good to me so far.

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-11-12 19:28:43

RE: Here I am again in a position that’s about as popular as “clubbing baby seals”?

I’m not saying they don’t have a ‘certain’ place, but that’s just me? Even at close to 50, I’m still all rock n’ roll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QCZ_bv9aLc

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 20:27:28

ROTFLMAO!!!

Sexy striped shirts, old Woodys -

Man, those guys look like they just came out of a Freudian therapy session.

great song, ah, california…

 
Comment by Jim A.
2008-11-13 07:11:34

By all accounts there is a BIG difference between B+B in the UK and the US. UK B+Bs are quaint and interesting mixed bags in the way the US B+Bs aspire to but at a fraction of the cost.

 
Comment by HARM
2008-11-13 11:51:35

By all accounts there is a BIG difference between B+B in the UK and the US. UK B+Bs are quaint and interesting mixed bags in the way the US B+Bs aspire to but at a fraction of the cost.

Yes! The B&Bs here are absurdly overpriced vs. the U.K., with a lot fewer amenities. One of the few instances in which that’s true.

 
 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-12 22:20:00

You forgot, ‘Bake doggie biscuits”. hehehe

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Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-11-12 16:13:05

“Dale Hirschkorn is among the almost 400,000 Bay Area homeowners with negative equity. He and his partner owe about $610,000 on their bungalow in Oakland’s Maxwell Park neighborhood; the home now is worth about $100,000 less. In their 94619 ZIP code, 23.8 percent of the homes are underwater, according to Zillow.”

Well, look on the bright side Dale. At least you and your “partner” enjoy being reamed.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-12 16:29:54

ex,

LOL! I didn’t catch that the 1st time. Right, at age 65, there IS no “back burner”! There isn’t time to “re-think” anything?

Seems we’re going about the serious business of our plans to -leave- the workforce w/ the same wide-eyed optimism we joined it with? Didn’t we learn a-n-y thing?

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-12 18:12:35

Seems we’re going about the serious business of our plans to -leave- the workforce w/ the same wide-eyed optimism we joined it with? Didn’t we learn a-n-y thing?

Warning: Descriptions below do not apply to all baby boomers, especially on this board and/or if I’ve somehow come too close too the mark in your life and you would like to blame it all on me.

My family relationships with the boomers suggest that learning seemed to have been stopped off with them some where around the 14-18 age range.

I have had these bizzaro converstaions with my MIL explaining how, yes, life is risky and we could all die at any moment. Or the reason that your mother told you that there were starving children in Africa as a child was so you’d be grateful for the food in front of you, not as some weird power trip lie. (It might have been the power trip thing, but still, there was a moral point that you missed for only about 5 decades or so.)

My father seems to be almost proud of the idea that he doesn’t feel any older than 18. (An age I would not go back to except to have the youth of it again.) Meanwhile, I also have bizzaro conversations with him where it becomes clear that I can generally predict better what people will do in given situations and end up advising him on office politics. (My younger sister, who has been in the swim of office politics for a decade also gives him advise, generally better than my own but in the same vein.)

Personally, I feel like I’m 34 going on to age 150. :) It’s a weird moment to feel more “grown-up” then your parents, however true or not true it maybe.

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Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-11-12 20:32:29

Know what you mean. We moved to a small rural tourist enclave where retiring artsy-academic BB’s have been buying up most of the land for the last decade. Definitely some serious cases of arrested development happening. At 51, about 10-15 years younger on average, it’s amazing to us how little we fit in, even though we too come from the city with similar life experiences (except for the artsy-academic thing). Thankfully we travel for work on a regular basis, and the mix keeps the synapses functioning, at least I think it does. Others here may differ :-)

 
Comment by Jen
2008-11-13 06:09:53

i feel the same way with my in-laws and their friends. It’s like they never grew up past 18 and my husband and I are having to explain life to them. It’s odd and completely uncomfortable. But my parents aren’t like that ….

 
Comment by HARM
2008-11-13 11:56:41

Warning: Descriptions below do not apply to all baby boomers

Just 80% of them or so… ;-)
Where I come from, we call ‘em “Prodigal Parents”.

 
 
 
Comment by GotRocks
2008-11-12 18:33:03

Yea, they’ll just have to delay having kids.

Naa, never mind.

 
Comment by robin
2008-11-12 23:58:40

I guess no reverse mortgage will be available for this couple?

 
 
Comment by Not Mssing It
2008-11-12 16:17:37

You have got to see the episode of “King of Queens” when Doug and Carrie go the the B&B. Great stuff!

Comment by GotRocks
2008-11-12 19:00:14

“King of Queens”

Let’s keep it clean here…this is a family site.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 19:21:21

OK, I wanna know who that posts here is under the age of 18. My bet is nobody.

:)

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Comment by Skroodle
2008-11-12 20:20:25

I think Bye Florida was 12.

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 22:47:23

LOL!!

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-12 23:44:13

Anyone remember when Bob Newhart show took place at a B&B in Vermont? Pretty funny.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-11-12 16:20:50

Had a cousin who owned a B&B inn with his husband. It was a short drive away from Boston, and the place did quite well.

OTOH, it was nonstop work for them. They also had a highly-rated restaurant to go with the B&B. That wasn’t exactly a walk in the park either.

Comment by GotRocks
2008-11-12 18:38:58

‘If a customer is not past due, they encourage in a subtle way for the customer to get past due and then they’ll help them. That’s horrible.’

Nope, what’s horrible is that these clowns (after cashing-out every bit of “equity” available) expect their loans to be modified.

 
Comment by are they crazy
2008-11-12 20:14:27

Had friends in HI w/B&B. Would hang out with them all the time. Up to put together breakfast, clean & change linens and pretty much done by about Noon. Rest of the day spent on the lanai drinking and relaxing. Maybe a trip to the beach and send the boys to buy supplies. There was paperwork and some pr/ad stuff to do, but it was all very laid back. They had 3 rooms and loved it. I guess it depends on the money and your requirements for ideal lifesyle.

 
 
Comment by hd74man
2008-11-12 17:08:45

RE: My Dad actually works at a luxury B and B and it is a PAIN IN THE ASS.

The masses derived their perception of what it’s like to run a B&B from the “Bob Newhart Show”.

Unfortunately, there was never an episode where Daryl & Daryl &
Daryl screwed up the new septic tank installation which resulted in every room’s toilet effluent running down the front stairway.

Scratch my nose…$5.00!

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 18:22:30

I read somewhere that the average life expectancy as a happy B&B owner was a mere 3 years. From then on out, misery and can’t wait to sell.

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-12 18:25:44

I thought about a B&B thing.

Then I talked to a few owners. And then I thought “there’s easier ways to make money”. :)

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Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 18:40:55

I do the B&B thing quite often, get up early and have gourmet coffee and scones and whatya call those fancy little french pancake things - ah, yes, crepes - lounge around all lazy and plan my afternoon of hiking/whatever, fluff up the down pillows and read till noon…

I choose my locations carefully - don’t want the BLM (Bureau of Lost Minds) telling me I have to move my camper. :)

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-12 18:56:02

*grin*

The B&B thing was BK (before kids.)

No previous parents tell you in all their gushing about babies that these miniature versions of humans aren’t aware of what a “weekend” is. Thusly, they are seem to want their convenient (on weekdays) 6am feeding on Sundays as well.

Still, Sundays are the high of luxury for us now that the kids are older. Sometimes I don’t get up until after 7:30am! And I don’t even work on Sundays (sometimes) ;)

 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-11-12 19:16:57

They don’t mention head lice either.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-12 19:44:07

Or how tots can catch foot and mouth disease at day care.One episode of that can pull you out of the work force quicker than you can say die-pee.

 
 
 
Comment by Skroodle
2008-11-12 20:24:16

The Bob Newhart Show was about a psychologist in Chicago.

Comment by JonB
2008-11-13 21:28:23

Yes that was the orginal show back in the 70s

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Comment by az_lender
2008-11-12 18:41:31

I have two personal friends each (separately) in the B&B Biz. In each case, the B&B Biz is just a way to support the Summer Home. Pays the taxes etc. Each of these persons has a teacher’s pension that supports the primary rez. No way could the B&B Biz be considered as a primary income source.

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-11-12 18:43:38

Further on the thought of doing a B&B in SLO. There are SOOOO many vacant, furnished vacation rental properties in Morro Bay and even Cayucos and Pismo that I can’t possibly imagine anyone spending the money to go to a B&B.

 
Comment by rms
2008-11-12 19:41:11

“I can’t tell you how many damned people I’ve met who have the same exact plan: Open a Bed and Breakfast and live leisurely lives forever more.”

I just bumped into an acquaintance yesterday at the latte shop who is mired in exactly this same B&B nightmare; been cash flowing negative for months, and the city has dropped some new structural masonry retrofits on him that must be completed by the close of 2012. His wife wants a divorce, but neither of them can afford it. A simmering hell…on earth!

 
 
Comment by friar john
2008-11-12 16:18:25

“‘Housing in San Diego has obviously fallen off a cliff,’ said Spencer Rascoff, Zillow’s chief operating officer. ‘San Diego’s home prices are now back where they were in the middle of 2003. You’ve rewound the clock five years in terms of home prices.’”

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Someone should email this to the CAR so that they can use it as talking points for why it is a great time to buy. I think Bush said something in the middle of 2003 to the effect of “Mission Accomplished”. Maybe CAR could feign that all along they’ve wanted home prices to come back down to 2003 levels and install banners at all open houses that says “Mission Accomplished: Speak to a Realtor today about reaping the rewards of your Success. Welcome Home America!”

Comment by HARM
2008-11-13 11:58:39

Sick thing is, by 2003, houses were already at inflated levels –just not *totally insane* inflated levels. Wake me up when they’re back to 1998.

 
 
Comment by friar john
2008-11-12 16:30:54

“John Marcell, president of the California Association of Mortgage Brokers Education and Research Foundation, said the high number of upside-down loans is troubling. ‘I have clients, past clients — four or five a day — who call and say, ‘John, I need to refinance, but I owe more than my house is worth,’ said Marcell, an Upland mortgage broker. ‘The solution? I don’t know what it is. You are going to have to lower these loans to the point where people can refinance. You are talking huge dollars.’”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

I’m suspecting the conversations with clients are going something like this…

“John, I’m up sh!t creek without a paddle. I just lost my job and my house is next.”
“John, refi me bro’!”
“John, if I don’t get a refi, my @ss is grass and my wife is the lawnmower.”
“John, do you like scented candles? My girlfriend is having a candle party tomorrow, can you make it? Oh, and I need a refi pronto, that’s quickly in spanish.”

Comment by ozajh
2008-11-12 18:52:15

I seem to remember that a year or so ago there was some comments here along the lines that a lot of borrowers on teaser rates couldn’t afford amortising payments at ZERO percent.

The grasshoppers don’t want a refi,
They can’t handle a refi,
They want a straight out GIFT, paid for by the ants.

(And unfortunately there’s enough grasshoppers that they just might get their gift.)

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-11-12 16:34:53

“He and his partner owe about $610,000 on their bungalow in Oakland’s Maxwell Park neighborhood; the home now is worth about $100,000 less.”

I’d bi-curious to know what they originally paid for the place. Might be out much more than $100K.

Comment by wmbz
2008-11-12 16:59:51

“the home now is worth about $100,000 less.”

I want to know what makes them think it’s worth only a $100,000.00 less? Try selling it dingle berry!

Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-11-12 17:25:08

I’m pretty sure those two are dingle berry free.

Comment by rms
2008-11-12 19:49:40

“I’m pretty sure those two are dingle berry free.”

LOL! Took me a minute to connect the dots. :)

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Comment by DebtinNation
2008-11-15 13:48:42

That’s quite a pain-in-the-bungholio!

Comment by B. Durbin
2008-11-15 18:19:57

Pain in the bungalow.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-12 17:03:12

Check out what they’re finding as Lake Shasta’s reservoir level is dropping precipitously…

http://www.keprtv.com/news/local/33924709.html?video=YHI&t=a

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 18:12:43

Interesting. When Powell Reservoir (not a lake) started tanking, we could see things that had been lost for a long time, like an old Anasazi fort and the Cathedral of the Desert.

Hey Lad, you’ll enjoy this:

www dot youtube dot com/watch?v=kV4aF4AZtY0

 
Comment by rms
2008-11-12 19:52:44

I’m sure more than one creditor can find their car down there.

 
 
Comment by ChillintheOC
2008-11-12 17:05:31

Guess what? My Dad actually works at a luxury B and B and it is a PAIN IN THE ASS. So these people probably don’t realize that they’ve been given a favor.
——————————————————————–
My Dad signed up to be the “Facility Maintenance Manager” for a motel up in the Carmel area a few years ago - thinking it was going to be a wonderful, stress free retirement (he also collects military pension).

Once he started getting the 2 am “my toilets too loud” calls and had to deal with the usual percentage of lowlifes traveling thru, his illusion quickly evaporated!

 
Comment by pitte sue
2008-11-12 17:27:32

“Secondly, if you’re some smart-aleck city slicker moving in with all your money, buy some quaint house and turn it into a B and B… the locals will NOT like you one bit. I see that all the time back home.”

Why would the locals object? I’m asking because I had the same dreams (ok, illusions).

You’d think the locals would welcome the additional business activity…

Comment by AmazingRuss
2008-11-12 18:37:01

I live in a small town because I like low population density. People moving to this town increase the population density. Therefore I don’t like people who move to my town.

Of course, it was different when *I* moved here :)

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-11-12 18:47:23

In the small town where I spend summer, the locals are quite friendly to the B&B owners because, as pitte sue suggests, the B&B owners are perceived as bringing people to town who spend money on other stuff. HOWEVER, this particular summer, the B&B traffic was the same as usual but the B&B guests were NOT spending much on other stuff. Hmm.

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 19:07:08

Well shoots, maybe I should resurrect my Squatter’s B&B…

Comment by HARM
2008-11-13 12:02:02

Nice idea –call it “Bando’s”!

 
 
 
Comment by Natureboy
2008-11-12 18:20:30

Salinasron . . are you out there? When if ever will this kind of grief get reflected in prices in the “better” parts of Salinas?

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 18:42:53

he ran off with Bobby McGee :)

 
Comment by salinasron
2008-11-12 18:49:27

Things are starting to heat up but people still have an attitude. Salinas is an interesting place to live. People over pay for housing, cars, services, etc but delude themselves as being rich because of what they think their houses are worth. More businesses going out here in Monterey Co. daily, high end sales going by the wayside in Carmel, more families doubling up as married kids are moving back home. I’ve met some really super people that just drank the RE kool-aid and are paying the price and life is slapping them right across the face.

I needed new brakes on my pk-truck but drove to Bakersfield yesterday morning to have the work done. I could trust that the work would be done right in BK and the price was $350 cheaper then quoted here and I got to visit friends and relatives at the same time.

Gas here today was $2.14/gal.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 19:08:54

See, told ya, he and Bobby went to Bakersfield. Welcome back, Ron. :)

 
Comment by blofeld42
2008-11-13 10:49:07

I just browsed around some of the Zillow estimates (I know, I know) for north salinas. They don’t look all that bad. There’s a ton of stuff in the mid-to-high 200’s. Judging from the early-90’s sale price on them, they’re just about at the same inflation-adjusted price as 1992/1993. And down about 50% from the bubble peak.

 
 
 
Comment by catspit1
2008-11-12 18:53:34

the Zillow is my friend. Next door yuppies with Make Me Move price of $1.2 million, now underwater 127.5k and in emergency dive… ahOOOOOOGA! Date of purchase, Dec. 2004. One Lexus in garage and one BMW suv.

Savvy investor who bought rental duplex on other side 1.5 years ago is already down 200k, yes, nice investing!!

On the other hand, i can’t give blood because i was in Germany in 1982-84, when there was apparently quite a bit of mad cow about. WTF? O well, having spongiform brain would explain a lot, maybe even excuse some of it?

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-12 19:02:24

On the other hand, i can’t give blood because i was in Germany in 1982-84, when there was apparently quite a bit of mad cow about. WTF?

Really? If so, aren’t they going to extremes? The blood supply is already low and it’s not exactly like there are people lined up down the street to have needle stuck in their arm for 15 minutes. (Unless it’s 9/11 and then there’s too much…) *sigh*

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-12 19:24:50

I’m one of the fortunate few with rare blood - I mean I have a rare blood type.

And even if I needed it, I wouldn’t want some of the blood that’s out there. Just sayin’.

And I’ve always wondered why the hospital charges so much for blood they essentially get for nearly nothing.

Comment by boston renter
2008-11-14 11:08:29

They only free part to blood is that they don’t pay *you* for it. It still costs bucks to run the blood collection facility (nurses salaries administrator salary etc), and then a lot of testing has to be done on every unit to make sure some idiot who got hepatitis from his tattoo doesn’t go ahead and donate anyway. They have to pay for this testing even if the blood doesn’t end up getting used before it goes bad. Ends up costing a lot!

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Comment by Jim A.
2008-11-13 07:21:12

Well the BUYERS may be suffering from BSE, but the realtors and mortgage brokers seem to have kuru.

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-11-12 19:19:58

What is amazing about California is the huge housing price bust before the recession even hit.

And now that it has, note the Paulson Plan B.

“Oh sh-t there isn’t enough money! Forget having the feds buy mortgages and people buy houses, we can’t afford them. We’ll buy credit card and auto loans instead, so they can buy SUVs and Plasma Screens.”

 
Comment by cactus
2008-11-12 21:35:12

Nov. 13 (Bloomberg) — Asian stocks and U.S. futures fell, extending a global rout, as the U.S. Treasury scrapped plans to buy mortgage assets, Intel Corp. cut its sales forecast and Best Buy Co. warned of a slowdown in spending.

so the Asians won’t be buying up costal CA RE after all ?

Comment by JonB
2008-11-13 21:30:22

they did … they bought up a golf course only to sell at a loss back in mid 90s. Look up Spyglass at Monterey CA…

 
 
Comment by Rancher
2008-11-13 09:23:51

My wife and I are opening a B&B next year. We found this beautiful piece of property right on the river and discovered that it was zoned commercial and had so many restrictions on it that it hadn’t sold
in 12 years.
I made the owner an offer that should have been
laughed at but to my surprise he came back and we
started to negotiate, settling at about 40% of the
original.
During our search of all the restrictions due to the weird zoning, we had found hidden away in all the
paperwork that there was one use that was allowed
and that was a B&B. Also in the paperwork was
some funny little things that said that a new B&B
should resemble a single family residence.
The owner gave the city a 30 day notice of intent
to sell since the city had a right of first refusal on
the property. The city wanted it for a new park and
had been waiting for years for the price to drop
due to all the restrictions they had purposely placed
on the property.
The city attorney tried to get the city council
to go for the purchase buy they voted it down and we bought the place the next day. The city finally
figured it all out when we submitted our plans
for our B&B, all within the restrictions placed on
the property yet there was not one thing they could
do about it. Any attempt by the city to thwart what
we were planning to do was immediately met by
my team of attorneys and they backed off.
So, we now own the largest single piece of
privately own real estate on the river with the
city limits. We’ll open our one extra bedroom
B&B next year and our schedule is from Christmas
to New Years and our rate is $2,500.00 a nite.
For some reason, I think our B&B will be a
complete failure.

Comment by fred
2008-11-13 12:50:42

cool.

 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-13 12:54:43

Nah, all of us HBBers are gonna come in and split the cost on Christmas. BTW, I like hot chocolate in the morning, say 9ish?

 
 
Comment by abdul tikritii
2008-11-13 10:07:09

this country will have only mcdonald’s and walmart by the time we are done. thank you to the idiots of all stripes who destroyed the polity for everyone, even the responsible.

 
Comment by sold in 04
2008-11-13 12:58:01

here in los angeles the job market is dead,what will we do with all these unemployed people w/ no place to go.where do the new jobs come from,….even the rich have seen there net worth drop, think stock market, 401k and phony equity gains,,,,all spending will stop,this will be one quiet xmas in the malls……

Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-13 17:57:14

If you want stuff, check the pawn shops, craigs list, and ebay. You’ll find it for 10 cents on the dollar.The closer you get to Xmas, the lower the price.

 
 
Comment by Jimbo
2008-11-13 18:56:07

‘San Diego’s home prices are now back where they were in the middle of 2003. You’ve rewound the clock five years in terms of home prices.’

Five down and three (or more) to go!

 
Comment by DancingOpossum
2008-11-14 11:35:21

Eesh, I love B&B’s but there is an overabundance of both them and useless “shabby chic” type stores in every remotely pretty small town, it seems. Do any of them make any money?? I always think the owners never really meant to turn a profit, that these were just expensive hobbies.

That said, I love staying in them when I travel and in the sucessful ones, the owners work 24/7. It’s no comfy gig. I suppose they get some downtime in the off season, but I remember one owner telling me that she and her husband never got to enjoy the B&B’s amenities; they couldn’t even use the “honeymoon suite” because it was always booked. So no, it’s not some soft comfy gig. It can be profitable if you run it like an actual business.

Same with those quaint and lovely furniture/craft/antique stores…The stuff is always insanely overpriced and I always wonder who in heck’s name buys this stuff?? There can’t be enough people to keep all these stores in business. Two of my cousins tried to open one of these and God bless’em but it was just doomed from the start.

 
Comment by Parma
2009-01-18 07:02:10

and what do you think about energeic problem in Russia?

 
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