November 15, 2008

Partying Like Madmen In California

The Press Enterprise reports from California. “When Ryan Zimmermann last month arrived for a walk-through of the four-bedroom Corona house he had just bought at a bank auction, he got a big surprise. Someone else had moved in. David Dobbs refuses to leave. Neighbors said he showed up late one night a few weeks ago and unloaded his belongings from a small trailer. He filled the once empty swimming pool and spa and had cable hooked up to his wide-screen television. Police allowed him to stay after he showed them a rental agreement and what he said was the deed proving this landlord is the owner.”

“‘I have the legal documents to be here. That’s why I’m not gone,’ Dobbs said in an interview.”

“By filing deeds that cloud title to a house, someone can get free shelter and ‘hold a house ransom’ by demanding cash from banks that want to avoid the delay and expense of an eviction process, which can take 60 days or longer, said Pete Nyiri, owner of Top Producers Realty & REO, which specializes in selling bank repossessed houses. ‘This is going to be the next big wave of rip-offs because it is so easy,’ Nyiri said.”

“Zimmermann said he will try to get back most of the $25,000 down payment he made on the house in Corona but he still wants to keep the escrow open in case the bank can sell the house to him before he finds another. He said when he told his wife about the squatters, ‘She cried a while. … But then you have to laugh. It is like a crazy nightmare.’”

The Desert Sun. “Sue McCollum, president of the California Desert Association of REALTORS…and several other members were among the more than 20,000 Realtors attending the 2008 REALTORS Conference & Expo, ‘Destination Success ñ Full Speed Ahead,’ recently held in Orlando, Fla.”

“Richard F. Gaylord, NAR’s 2008 president, urged Realtors to help restore confidence in the real estate market by educating the public about the value of housing as a good long-term investment. ‘Homeownership offers immediate benefits and long-term value,’ said Gaylord.”

The Merced Sun Star. “Merced County and its cities are eligible for up to $7 million to buy up foreclosed homes and demolish ones that have become eyesores, the state announced Friday. The county’s foreclosure rate, 12.5 percent, ranks as the highest in California. In the Central Valley, about a quarter of the loans were high-cost. Federal agencies reckon that 5,913 homes within the county have gone into foreclosure.”

“While the money will help the problem, it’s far from a solution, as homes continue to go back to the banks. ‘This is true everywhere: It’s a drop in the bucket,’ Merced County Association of Government spokeswoman Candice Steelman said.”

“Last month, the county saw 315 more homes fall into foreclosure. Just under 500 houses were sold.

Councilman Bill Spriggs said he was frustrated to see cities such as Modesto and Stockton receive millions from Washington D.C., while others were overlooked. The growth of UC Merced and the city’s typical population growth, about 3 percent each year, will slowly chisel away at the mountain of vacant homes. Still, that will take at least a year or two to work through.”

“‘I’m still not happy,’ he said, ‘but at this point, you can’t say no to $1.4 million.’”

The Recordnet. “Foreclosure auctions first popped up in the Central Valley in summer 2007, when hardly anything was selling. Then the auctions basically evaporated as sales via local brokerage firms took off by year’s end and got ever hotter this year. A small auction this week that featured 35 houses in San Joaquin County and another next weekend of 32 houses marks a small burst in a record sales market as foreclosure home prices continue to drop.”

“But an unsuccessful auction attempt can convince the investors or bank that owns the foreclosure property that the price needs cutting, said Jerry Abbott, president and co-owner of Grupe Real Estate, Stockton. ‘They usually only sit because they’re overpriced,’ Abbott said. ‘The ones that don’t sell come back on the market at a lower price and usually sell quickly after that.’”

The Union. “A day before owners of the North Star project were to auction off their defaulted property on the courthouse steps, they filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, the Union has learned. Sandy Sanderson, owner of Sanderson Communities of Bend, Ore., and his partners in North Star/Grass Valley LLC owe Citizens Bank $2.2 million. The bankruptcy filing has bought the developers time.”

“Sanderson said he plans to secure financing for his project on 762 acres, one of four special development areas proposed on the outskirts of Grass Valley in recent years. ‘We’re not giving up. We’ll be the developers,’ Sanderson said.”

The Sacramento Bee. “Home Front listened in this week when area building industry reps gathered to hear what their consultants think. San Diego-based Sullivan Group Real Estate Advisors held the floor and tried hard not to scare a paying, vulnerable audience half to death. Beyond, the statistics – fairly bad, such as a 14-year supply of new home lots in Yuba and Sutter counties – here’s what’s really going on in real estate.”

“The next generation of home builders will probably not learn a lesson from today’s housing meltdown. Tom Jacobs, Western region chief of Kimball Hill Homes (which filed for bankruptcy protection last April), said, ‘I think the next generation of home builders will make the same mistake.’”

From CBS 13. “No too long ago, Elk Grove was booming with growth. In fact, it was fastest growing city in the country at one time. Tonight, it’s forced to pay the price for the nation’s faltering economy. The city took a big hit today with another dealership closure.”

“The place that made headlines as the fastest-growing city in the country two years ago, now finds itself with an empty lot for its town center mall, and has empty spaces where developers had planned to build new homes.”

“Curt Cook just bought his brand new house next to a dirt lot on a short sale. ‘I think its going to be a while before the market picks up before they can really start building again,’ said Curt.”

The Danville Weekly. “Developers from throughout Northern California are joining together with a Danville-based firm to hold a massive auction next weekend of new home properties both in the Bay Area and beyond. Accelerated Marketing Partners Co.-founder Ken Stevens said the event will feature 150 new homes in more than a dozen communities. ‘These are all brand new homes with warranties. They’ve never been lived in and in some cases are set up where the buyers can still pick out options,’ he said.”

“Homes will be sold throughout the Bay Area, including San Jose, Vallejo, Hayward, Martinez and Walnut Creek. In most cases, the opening bid is 50 percent of the original asking price or less. Vacation homes will also be on the docket. Stevens said they have homes in a golf community in Copperopolis that run two to four bedrooms and will have opening bids of $295,000.”

The Mercury News. “The first fiscal bomb hit the Bay Area last week when the Gilroy City Council voted to fire about a sixth of its workforce. Other cities battling dwindling municipal funds are fooling themselves, Gilroy officials say, if they think they will avoid similar layoffs and severe cuts in services. ‘I would say that we’re six to eight months ahead of the curve,’ Gilroy Mayor Al Pinherio said. ‘But I guarantee you that lots of other cities will be in the same boat.”’

“Added Gilroy City Administrator Tom Haglund: ‘Anyone who doesn’t believe that is whistling past the graveyard — and they shouldn’t be doing that.”’

“Only last spring, Gilroy officials had calculated that the city would take into its general fund $2.6 million from engineering, planning and building fees. Now they project they will receive only $800,000 — a nearly 70 percent reduction. The reason is that developers figure that building homes in a depressed market is a losing proposition, or they can’t get financing because credit markets have dried up.”

“‘We have developers who would love to build,’ said Gilroy’s finance director, Christina Turner. ‘But they can’t get a loan.’”

The San Francisco Chronicle. “Sun Microsystems said Friday it will eliminate 5,000 to 6,000 jobs, or more than 15 percent of its workforce, becoming the latest Silicon Valley firm to suffer from the widening economic downturn. Many startups have also cut jobs as the economic slump that began in housing and infected the financial sector undermines tech niches from chips to computing.”

“Jon Fisher, a Silicon Valley software entrepreneur and business professor at University of San Francisco, predicted more layoffs in tech and the general economy but said these future job losses are unlikely to ignite an irreversible spiral because government intervention has stabilized the financial system.”

“‘I believe a recovery in housing and financial services will offset the economic destruction caused by future job losses,’ he said.”

From KCBS. “One of the last markets hit by the housing crash is finally seeing prices fall. Developers are finally slashing the prices of luxury condominiums in San Francisco because of the slow market. Symphony Towers is having a closeout sale, $100,000 off. The Potrero is selling its last nine units at a discount. The second tower of the Rincon Hill development isn’t even going to be built because of the slow market.”

“‘Sometimes it’s a la carte,’ said Alan Mark, CEO of the Mark Company which sells and markets some of the city’s top condo projects. The deals, Mark explains, often run something like this. ‘Here’s $20,000 or more and do you want it towards home owners dues? Do you want it towards closing costs, or upgrades or towards prices?’”

“He believes prices will rebound in about two years when there is another condo shortage.”

The San Gabriel Valley Tribune. “Southland economist Nancy D. Sidhu, in a speech at the San Gabriel Valley Economic Partnership’s Economic Outlook Breakfast, said the economy may begin to pick up by the end of next year, and that by 2010, we should be well on the road to recovery. ‘The storm will be severe through the next six to nine months with gradual clearing and sunny skies by 2010 and 2011,’ she said. ‘Watch for housing upturns.’”

“Los Angeles County home prices fell 35.3 percent in September, according to a recent report by the California Association of Realtors. But sales - fueled by those lower prices - rose a whopping 82.9 percent. Industry experts say foreclosures account for a significant portion of Southland home sales. ”

“Marty Rodriguez, owner of Century 21 Marty Rodriguez in Glendora, said 30 percent of the transactions her office handles are either home foreclosures or short sales. ‘That’s the highest it’s been for us, but I don’t think we’re through,’ Rodriguez said last month. ‘I think that could probably get up to 40 percent … and maybe even 50 percent.’”

The Voice of San Diego. “Meet David Cleveland, a house-hunter trying to navigate the San Diego housing market. He recently moved from Denver and is trying to find a house to buy. He sleeps on a boat and showers at the gym, and his wife and kids stay with family in Orange County, while the Clevelands try to navigate the local housing market.”

“Here’s Cleveland, in his own words: ‘I would have to agree that we haven’t seen the end of the mortgage mess yet…What I am seeing here in San Diego is a continued feeding frenzy. Yes some are losing their houses, but there are people out there that are bidding up the prices of homes that are in short sale or are foreclosed thinking they are getting a great deal.’”

“Say you bought a house in 2005 and you’re wondering when your home might again be worth what you paid for it. Norm Miller, real estate professor at the University of San Diego, has an answer: He’s projected out local prices for the next decade or so. And even under the most optimistic scenario he and his colleagues came up with, the median price of a detached house in San Diego won’t return to the 2005 price peak until at least 2016, or ’sometime way off the distance,’ Miller said.”

“Mark Riedy, the center’s executive director, said while perpetual optimism is a hallmark of most real estate pros, most are in ’survival mode’ these days. ‘They’re saying, ‘Don’t tell me how to remodel the house when it’s burning down, and don’t tell me where to put the sprinkler system. Tell me how to get out of the house and not die,’ Riedy said.’

“Riedy said he wants the school to be a place where any opinion has room. ‘If somebody has an opinion that the market’s in the toilet and is going to stay there ’til 2020, that’s their opinion,’ he said. ‘I might not always agree, but it’s going to be a tough time, and there’s no pressure from me or anybody else to say otherwise.’”

“Riedy said he recently spoke to a group of high-end residential brokers in La Jolla. He described what he sees as the future for the real estate market — ‘that the manure was going to hit the fan’ — and many gave him a hard time about his analysis.”

“But afterward, a handful of brokers approached Riedy. ‘They said ‘We think you’re absolutely right, it’s just not in our nature to agree with that,’ he said. ‘And that’s why they’re good at what they do — they always think it’s going to get better.’”

The Press Democrat. “Jobless ranks could hit 10 percent and home prices will continue to fall across California, with Sonoma County feeling its share of the worsening downturn, according to an economic forecast released Friday. The worst recession to hit the state and nation in more than two decades could extend beyond next year, sapping consumer spending that drives the economy and extending housing’s decline, said Chris Thornberg, an economist who studies California.”

“In Sonoma County, where two out of three home sales are of distressed properties, the median home price could sink below $300,000 before finally flattening, Thornberg said. Home prices have already fallen 42 percent from the peak of $619,000 three years ago, and Thornberg’s projection would take off an additional 20 percent or so.”

“‘Do I think prices have farther to fall? Unfortunately, I do,’ he said. ‘The fact is prices will hit a level where people can afford them.’”

“Thornberg and other economists said the downturn was overdue, and the steep fall reflects how far prices were out of line with incomes. Surging home sales in recent months do not indicate a recovery, but rather demand for discounted properties flooding the market, he said. ‘That just reflects the overall stress on the system,’ Thornberg said.”

“Consumer reliance on credit and home equity for spending that sustained economic growth for more than a decade can’t be counted on to pull the economy out of recession, Thornberg said. ‘We’ve been partying like madmen,’ he said, ‘and Americans have just woken up from 12 years of partying with the mother of all headaches.’”




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121 Comments »

Comment by Renterfornow
2008-11-15 11:48:23

Yes the NAR and Realthors suck. They think that by using their same propaganda that buyers will ever trust them.
I say good luck cuz i will avoid using some dingbat realthor to buy a house. These bloodsuckers will not make one penny off of my purchase.

Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 15:49:33

Yup. Somehow, people always manage to forget that RE agents have no fiduciary duty their clients. I wonder how long it will take them to forget again after this?

Comment by DebtinNation
2008-11-15 19:10:54

RE agents put the “douche” in fiduciary.

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-11-15 20:06:51

Press Enterprise?

Anyone?

Our host works his…er…butt off.

Um.

Ya just can’t make this stuff up!

P.S. Seriously.

http://www.pe.com/business/realestate/stories/PE_News_Local_S_kingsolomon13.42a940a.html

King Solomon II –

Ben,

No doubt, seer.

Leigh

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-15 23:17:20

The sheeple have short memories. Give it 3 or 4 years til this cycle bottoms out. They’ll be back sucking up the kool aid like nothing happened. hehehehehehe

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-15 12:05:22

“Merced County and its cities are eligible for up to $7 million to buy up foreclosed homes and demolish ones that have become eyesores, the state announced Friday.’

I’ve decided I don’t like the word ‘eyesore’ even one little speck. It sounds all crusty and leaky. Just like I didn’t approve of ‘fecaltime’ as a posting name here, because it sounded like some sort of brand of poop tea, and suggested he use ‘feeky’ instead, because that sounds cuter. ALso, ’satan’ here on HBB should capitalize his name, to indicate his impressive status as demi-god and also ’cause it’s a personal title, and hey, where IS Satan? Feeky? Aqius? Sammy Schadenfreude? Kandy Kane? Maybe they’re out stripping copper wire? Playing with their Barbies?

I’m trying some new coffee this morning and you know what? I think 4 cups all at once might be a bit much. I’m practically on hummingbird speed. No, forget the ‘practically’ part.

Comment by ACH
2008-11-15 13:48:34

“…4 cups all at once might be a bit much.”
Maybe.
Roidy

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-15 15:01:03

Well, I was doing a taste test comparison, see. I decided I liked all the brands. And look! My hands can vibrate so fast they go invisible! New skill-set, baybee.

Comment by ann gogh
2008-11-16 12:02:54

Oly, that was so funny.
I love those tiny birds, sometimes just seeing them makes me ‘well up’ inside.

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Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-11-15 14:11:50

I can see some genius saying:

“Destroying foreclosed homes to decrease supply and ridding the land of ‘eyesores’ will increase property prices!”

Way to go! That, along with builder subsidies and bank buyouts will bring back the big swingin’ housing market again, right? Now what about jobs? Don’t tell me you forgot about the freaking jobs!!!

Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 15:54:03

No worries, we have been assured by a professional Software Engineer that a recovery in housing and and financial markets will OFFSET future job losses. See, there is no need for jobs anymore. Problem solved, courtesy a Software Engineer.

Comment by michael
2008-11-15 17:23:51

Well, I’m a professional software engineer too and I’ll give the other guy the benefit of the doubt that he’s qualified to write code but I don’t recall any of the fine universities in this country handing out shiny crystal balls along with degrees at graduation.

BTW, does this guy work at Sun?

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Comment by Backstage
2008-11-16 06:04:23

Used to, not any more.

 
 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-11-16 06:38:51

in 1933 the New deal - newly formed Dept of ag killed 3 million hogs

 
Comment by GH
2008-11-16 10:11:51

I am recently an out of work software engineer, and I can tell you here in San Diego, a rather small number of open positions are chasing after a large number of recently out of work developers. Fortunately, I have some of my own contract work right now and a decent amount of money to back us a while, but doubt I will be getting hired anywhere fast. This will be the next wave in the tsunami wave train with unemployment rapidly rising at the same time credit lines are being pulled we will start to see a massive increase in defaults on credit cards and other unsecured lines of credit. It is too bad our current president is sleeping at the helm through this crisis, because while I am not an Obama fan, I believe he intends if possible to start some pretty impressive public works projects, which assuming US Citizens are used may be the only remaining hope we have left to stop the total collapse of our credit and banking system. Any yes, the money must be “printed” since tax revenue has already started to dwindle substantially.

Comment by michael
2008-11-16 17:53:34

I hope that those public works jobs include software engineers.

I’ve been working with the same group since the mid-1980s so I’ve survived the ups and downs of tech but this one looks worse then even the downturn of the late 1980s.

Our last hire was someone that I knew before - he was a contractor for HP that went to Avid and left there just before they had big layoffs. He started with us two weeks ago. He’s in his late 40s or early 50s with a long resume in contracting. There are good jobs out there but contacts really help. My son had an interview this past week for an internship at a company and we’re lining up more companies from a career fair recently.

Best of luck in job hunting.

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Comment by oc-ed
2008-11-17 01:20:53

It would be interesting to map homes in foreclosure to homes lost in the fires this weekend. In my copious free time this week I’ll see what I can do …

 
 
 
Comment by rms
2008-11-15 12:16:04

“Do I think prices have farther to fall? Unfortunately, I do,” he said. “The fact is prices will hit a level where people can afford them.”

Will the mainstream economists will understand this concept?

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-11-15 13:42:49

And then they might fall farther. But at least we’re making some progress.

I continue to be aghast at the amount of damage that the financial industry managed to cause with the credit bubble. The bad news just keeps on coming, and now I read that the mayor of San Jose has the cojones to ask for $14 billion of the TARP money, to spend on road work and mass transit, of all things. Can you spell “m-o-r-a-l h-a-z-a-r-d”, boys and girls? What is San Jose going to do with $14 billion? Pour it down another rat hole like a stadium? Maybe gold-plate the yellow lines on the streets? Convert the entire population of the city into public employees?

I hope the citizens of San Jose recall this idiot. But they’re probably cheering him on for getting them “More Free Stuff”.

When are attitudes like this going to change?

Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 15:55:57

IMO, attitudes like this will change when we run out of money, and then everyone goes “Hey, who spent all the money?”.

 
 
 
Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-11-15 12:43:08

“He believes prices will rebound in about two years when there is another condo shortage.”

Now who can dispute that line of reasoning? I was just thinking how Atlantis will reappear around June 15, 2010, when there is another ocean shortage.

 
Comment by AK-LA
2008-11-15 13:04:14

We’ve got a few substantial fires burning in Southern California right now, a few hundred homes already lost with no end in sight.

This is one way to restrict housing supply!

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-15 13:30:39

Say, AK, weren’t you going to give us more notes on your water conference thing? I saved your first post. It was fascinating. How about you give us more? Hmmm?

Comment by AK-LA
2008-11-15 19:01:10

OK, OK. I just have to dig out my notes. ;)

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2008-11-15 17:51:56

Who needs 600 Stinkin section 8 mobile homes , put them into luxury McMansions…come on Acorn now is your chance

Comment by peter m
2008-11-15 22:39:58

“Who needs 600 Stinkin section 8 mobile homes , put them into luxury McMansions…come on Acorn now is your chance”

better the inhabitants leave that stinking gang-infested cesspool called Sylmar, which is a gigantic foreclosure blackhole. They can get their fed/ state/acorn housing assistance with 0 rates and some tarp mony and move to better digs . Bet you bottom $ those mobile home inhabitants are mostly impoverished seniors, white trailer-trash,and latino immigrants without a dime to their names. I know sylmar Demographics and it ain’t upper crust.

I like the mobile homes in Huntington Beach next to the power plant and across PCH from the beach. Not pretty trailers and the folks there are mostly lower income/retired/working class with a few down and outers but at least they have the location. Not too many folks will let those homes go to market.

A trailer park right next to the OC/huntington beach coast is a priceless asset.

Comment by peter m
2008-11-15 23:18:41

The location of those 500 burn’t mobile homes appears to be just north of the 210 foothill fwy near glenoaks blvd, in a sort of alcove sited against the Symar hills. I don’t know if these are new developments but they may be newer than nearby lake view terrace, which has many older rustic horse ranches, and is a very bucolic laid back community. Symar put up a lot of new suburban tracks, mostly townhomes, many set against the fire-prone hills above the 210 and 5 fwy. It was always a ragged community with a large impoverished population & gang infested pocket at the bottom of the valley/basin along the San fernando road.

It is also a community most angelinos are all too happy to bypass as they drag along the commuter-choked 5 fwy on their way to Palmcaster and Santa Clarita. Not a pretty area.

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Comment by peter m
2008-11-15 19:09:31

“We’ve got a few substantial fires burning in Southern California right now, a few hundred homes already lost with no end in sight”.

There are 4 active fires ongoing in Scal/LA basin region, at least the ones being closely followed by the local media.

The worst is the Yorba linda /Anaheim hills fire in east OC. Lots of expensive homes out there. The next worst is the sylmar fire in far northeast san fernando valley. 500 mobile homes got burned down there. That is in area where the 118/5/and 210 fwys intersect. It is a sort of bowl or basin enclosed by brushy mts. Not as expensive as Yorba but a lot of new home tracts put up there. Symar is a foreclosure epicenter for LA basin and many homes that end up being burned may be empty foreclosed properties.

A smaller fire in Brea/tonner canyon area in far north OC seems on way to containment.
The montecito fire near santa barbara city is 40% contained but 200 homes, many of them expensive estates of the rich and famous, are lost.
I have heard reports that there are problems with low water pressure in some areas, indicating that the ongoing Scal drought is having an adverse effect on the local firefighting capabilities.

 
 
Comment by Gulfstreamfixer
2008-11-15 13:18:51

“This is going to be the next big wave of rip-offs, because it is so easy……….”

This is precisely the time that government needs to come in and crush a few of these cockroaches, before the rest of the cockroaches migrate from their previous scams into something like this. If this kind of deal gets going, you would be stupid to even think about buying a home.

Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 15:58:15

Some effort should be put into educating people about how to research a house before renting it. How to check its default status, see when it was bought and by whom, etc. You can do it all online; you might have to make a phone call. I just don’t think most people even know how.

 
Comment by hunkydory
2008-11-16 09:42:52

Great point: why does there have to be “the next big wave of rip-offs”? Ron Paul commented that not one of the very few economists who dissented popular opinion and predicted this crisis were asked whether the $700bn bailout was a good idea or not.

We gave the former CEO of Goldman Sachs a giant bag of loot and the approval to spend it however he saw fit. He handed some out to his bank cronies, who locked it up in their reserves vault and won’t lend it out. No one could have seen that one coming, right? Certainly not a banker with a personal net worth nearly one tenth the size of the bailout itself!

Use a tiny fraction of that money to hire a dissenting economist like Peter Schiff on contract, and have him voice his opinions on Paulsons moves before he makes them. Otherwise, the rest of that money can and will be looted away. This stuff is too complicated for our elected government officials to comprehend, and is too important to our countries future to leave in the bloodied hands of a Hank Paulson. The Schiff’s of the world are the only countrymen left who are honest and trustworthy enough to be of any help. Most other influential people are in it strictly for power and the accumulation of personal wealth at any cost.

 
 
Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-15 13:35:28

“Southland economist Nancy D. Sidhu, in a speech at the San Gabriel Valley Economic Partnership’s Economic Outlook Breakfast, said the economy may begin to pick up by the end of next year, and that by 2010, we should be well on the road to recovery. ‘The storm will be severe through the next six to nine months with gradual clearing and sunny skies by 2010 and 2011,’ she said. ‘Watch for housing upturns.’”

When someone sees a speck of improvement, even with the aid of huge binoculars, please clue me in.

Comment by Neil
2008-11-16 04:45:49

By 2010 the economy might be improving.

But not one second of 2009. I know of too many SoCal layoffs waiting to happen. But sunny skies? It takes 18 months for people to come back out of hiding! The bottom won’t be before 2011 and that is only if we have a rapid correction in prices.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
 
Comment by kato22
2008-11-15 13:35:30

It was a sad day yesterday. Three people were shot dead from a disgruntled ex-employee. It happened one block from where I worked in Santa Clara, CA. Layoff in Silicon Valley is now accelerating and more foreclosures are on the way. Buckle up for a one heck of a scary ride.

Comment by DebtinNation
2008-11-15 13:53:12

What’s Bubbleswamy, Silicon Valley’s resident RE booster have to say about this?

 
Comment by JonB
2008-11-15 19:28:28

LOL! been there seen that all before even the employees going postal.

 
Comment by JonB
2008-11-15 19:36:44

layoffs in SV are a long term trend… at one time every job was based in SV… now we have additional 5,000 being laid off.

Here is SUN in a nutshell… 30,000 employees world wide with 6,000 in SV… slice off the last 5,000 in the most expensive locations (aka SV) and you have some 1,000 left. The same has already happened with AMD, Seagate, Intel, and many others. So there will only be few positions remaining with many being out of state (which is cheaper).
And every state is more than willing to provide tax breaks and perks.

Altogether not enough to support high prices in SV. As for the smaller private companies… without wall street, you can pretty much forget any IPOs happening and rasining capital to fuel growth.

Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 22:46:09

They’re really moving the jobs to other countries, not just other states. If they were moving to another state, then most folks would probably go along.

 
 
 
Comment by Bluzer
2008-11-15 13:38:15

Job losses in Silicon valley will, finally, crack that real estate market. When the techies realize, after losing their jobs, that their home is the only asset they have left, they will - all together - run for the exits. Bringing down the almighty - “we are different” - bay area market. Enjoy the ride.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-11-15 13:58:24

Tech is like the auto industry. I think Michigan today could be a crystal ball into the future 3-4 years from now for the Bay area.

Comment by kato22
2008-11-15 14:02:50

I hope not. We need another bubble to start another party.

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-15 16:22:49

Please God, one last bubble before I die. (Bumper sticker in Silicon Valley after dot.bomb.)

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Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 16:00:31

Why do you think tech is like the auto industry?

Comment by Silverback1011
2008-11-15 19:55:44

Because it can be offshored, and that is already happening.

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Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 22:48:53

That’s been happening to most of the jobs here for a long time. The only jobs that can’t be offshored are the ones that depend on having consumers living here and working here. All employment in the United States is being killed by offshoring, not just auto manufacturing and tech-related jobs.

 
 
 
Comment by DebtinNation
2008-11-15 19:08:56

You’re exactly right. The whole economy was predicated on everyone buying new cars every 3 years, computers every 1-2 years, and a bunch of useless shat every day. That’s all gonna dry up like a turd in the wind.

 
 
 
Comment by Jen Bones
2008-11-15 13:47:30

“Mark Riedy, the center’s executive director, said while perpetual optimism is a hallmark of most real estate pros, most are in ’survival mode’ these days. ‘They’re saying, ‘Don’t tell me how to remodel the house when it’s burning down, and don’t tell me where to put the sprinkler system. Tell me how to get out of the house and not die,’ Riedy said.’

Mr. Riedy, you owe Christopher Lloyd’s listing agent an apology for neglecting to attribute that quote to its specific source.

Luv,
Jen

Google search: “Tea Fire” + Montecito +Lloyd

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-15 13:53:02

Yard sale at a townhouse in Torrance on Friday. The townhouses in that development were selling new for $700,000 back in 2006. Can you imagine people putting out their trinkets for sale in front of a $700,000 McMansion townhouse? Yep. The family and 3 or 4 rugrats had their stuff all out by the sidewalk and up to the steps.

Oh, and these townhomes are in a light industrial area. Storage units, auto paint shops, that type of thing.

Sad for them.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-11-15 14:01:07

It’s sad for the economy, Wall Street, and the country.

Comment by BubbleViewer
2008-11-15 14:14:55

You nailed it.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-15 14:43:37

‘Yard sale at a townhouse in Torrance on Friday.’

So, was there good stuff? Or was it all Walmart crap? I stopped at a sale a month ago, in front of a gussied up, tarted-out McMansion over in Lacey–I hate Lacey, but I had to be there for a meeting, this was on a Friday, and don’t think I didn’t grumble and fuss about it, because I did–and man! Loads of stuff, and not one bit of it worth carting to the Goodwill, let alone wasting a whole two bits on. I had to hold my lip firm, or it would have curled up over my entire head in disdain.
Yet over here where I live on Steamboat Point there’ll be an estate sale at some little old cottage hidden in the woods and when you stop you have to choose between the pile of vintage Hawaiian postcards covered with exquisite stamps for a buck, or the mahogany steamer trunk for 10 bucks, or else the… etc etc.
I never choose. I just get it all. Anyone want some books? I got a nice one recently, really big, leather bound. It says ‘Gutenberg’ and appears to be bible or something. I only paid 2 bucks, because some jerk named ‘Luther’ had scribbled some stupid notes and some doodles of the pope in the margins. Jeeze, some people!

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-15 16:00:55

I did not stop to see. But gosh darn it! I should have! I was spending my day off from work furnishing my apartment - I had furniture in storage nearby. I could use a chest of drawers, a dining table and chairs, and a bed frame.

I have a $50 air mattress that impressively beat my expectations. I thought it would last one week, particularly since I have a cat (and I am the type of guy who believes it’s cruelty to declaw cats).

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-15 16:20:47

“I have a $50 air mattress that impressively beat my expectations.”

Mine lasted just shy of a year. I rather liked it.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-15 18:33:10

I am worried about how the air mattress will withstand (ahem) certain activity between myself and a nice looking woman. I will find out sooner or later. It will be interesting, to say the least.

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-15 18:03:29

it’s cruelty to declaw cats

100% right on, Bill

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Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-11-15 20:39:23

I second that, Bill. Any honest vet will tell you that cats need their claws for a variety of reasons, including psychological well-being. When they sit on your lap and knead with their claws, that’s the apex of contentment for them. I could never do that to a cat.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2008-11-15 19:12:06

I got 4 chairs and a small table for 16 bucks here in Awhatukie AKA garage sale city

and a laptop computer bag for 1 buck excellent shape

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Comment by DennisN
2008-11-15 19:45:59

I was in a used bookstore in San Jose a few years ago and found a 1936 first-edition of T.E. Lawrence’s “Seven Pillars of Wisdom” ticketed at $20. After I paid for it, I told the seller I had been looking for a hardback copy for years and was most pleased to get a “first edition”. He cringed and said “but didn’t Lawrence write it around 1920?” I replied “but the publication was held up until after his death in 1935. I think the bookseller wanted to strangle me. The EBay price on a first ed. is around $1,200…..

 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2008-11-15 16:19:32

Isn’t Torrance where LAX is? Can you hear the planes coming and going in that neighborhood?

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-15 18:31:01

El Segundo is where LAX is. No, I cannnot hear the planes. I’m alongside a busy street near a “horspital.” At worse, I hear occasional harleys and more frequently ambulances.

 
 
Comment by peter m
2008-11-15 19:20:05

“Yard sale at a townhouse in Torrance on Friday.”

I recently saw a yard sale in the tiny mega expensive beachside community of Sunset Beach in OC. This is one exclusive beach side resort but not immune from the worldwide financial meltdown. I go there all the time and the shops, surf rentals, and eateries are hurting. It has been 70-80% and warm all oct and nov out there but everything is dead. There are a few surfers and cyclists who come out there but then those activities cost nothing except the initail cost of wetsuit and board, about $400-500. Cycling costs little, except for the bike which way be %100-$150 for a cheap beach cruiser. Even cheaper if U buy it used.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-15 14:02:59

Let’s see, 2016 is 8 years away. Is it possible our wages will inflate to the levels where the average family led by white collar professionals could afford a 30 year mortgage at 2 and a half times their income? Could this happen in San Diego?

And with perhaps more community reinvestment acts down the road by Pelosi, Frank, Reid, Dodd, Shumer and the other crooks, would neighborhood values really return to 2005 levels? The socialists wanted to integrate schools. They got that. They used the community reinvestment act, no doc loans and the sort to integrate neighborhoods without the gullible taxpaying homeowners realizing it was integration. And now people who couldn’t afford the traditional 2 and a half times income affordability test are next door. Guess what? Boom boxes blaring Mariachi or rap, good ol-boys in cowboy hats leaning on their Chevy trucks drinking bud, parents shouting out 4 letter words to their children - this is the multiculturalism that we found ourselves into.

I’d rent another 10 years before the market finishes exerting its punishment on the false economy and its proponents. It will be at least that before every mortgage payer will live within their incomes without any artificial support by taxpayers.

Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 16:04:30

Just a note, but I’m pretty sure that the average family isn’t led by 2 white-collar professionals. Once we get to the point where those people can afford housing, then we know we are about 1/2-way there.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2008-11-15 16:28:04

So you prefer segregation in housing and the public schools? If you’re a white person who only wants to be around other white people, you’re going to have to leave coastal California. You might want go somewhere like Utah or Idaho. If you’re willing to go all the way back east, I hear that Vermont and Maine are 95% - 98% white.

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-15 17:07:34

Maine: all white, though full of people who preach against racism. Easy to be nice to the one and only non-white family you’re ever gonna meet.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-15 18:03:39

I had a girlfriend from Kuwait - arabic, one from Brazil (Portuguese descent), one a Filipino from Brunei, a Japanese-descent girlfriend who was Tahitian, and two different girlfriends from Hong Kong. Being opposed to multiculturalism does not mean you have to associate within your own race. Don’t be shallow. And don’t imply I’m a racist. I’m not.

The girlfriend from Kuwait was the same culture as me - she was and is academically-oriented. She was my favorite girlfriend. One day in the sun and her complexion would get dark and last months. It happened.

I discriminate against idiots, and there are some from all races. I only associate with people who are rational. Fewer and fewer people these days fall into that category. I like intelligent people from all races. I also admire certain things about Barack, particularly in him calling himself a mutt.

By the way, I’m also a mutt. I’m part native American Indian.

Comment by MightyMike
2008-11-16 10:45:41

OK, it sounds like you’re not a racist. It was just the words that you were using that prompted me to make my comment. Back in ’60s, people who opposed integration were generally racists. The opposite of integration was segregation, which meant that there were black neighborhoods and white neighborhoods, black schools and white schools. There were even separate rest rooms in public places. You may be too young to remember that.

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Comment by crisrose
2008-11-15 20:20:43

I prefer segregation among classes - nothing whatsoever to do with race or even income for that matter - more taste and lifestyle. Plenty of the low class made big money during the real estate rip off (though they’re losing their shirts now) - I wouldn’t want to live next door to them either.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-16 07:06:37

I would agree about segregation among classes, however wealthy drug dealers, movie stars, sports stars, and music stars can trash a neighborhood where people earned their place.

One example: In Carefree Arizona a rap star lives in a neighborhood there.

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Comment by HARM
2008-11-17 12:17:17

Hey what do you have against drug dealers? lol

 
 
 
 
Comment by Kyle
2008-11-15 20:47:58

The Community Reinvestment Act was about 1% of subprime.
Try getting your information from somewhere other than an obese drug addict with a radio show.

Comment by exeter
2008-11-15 21:06:17

Kyle,

Don’t expect retards to strive for anything more than retardation.

 
 
 
Comment by Don't Know Nothin About Buyin No House
2008-11-15 15:03:31

http://cbs5.com/video

Scroll down to bottom of page and advance to page 2. See video story about California boat owners abandoning their boats. Free yachts for everyone!

 
Comment by Worried
2008-11-15 15:27:12

Had a conversation with a Countrywide loan originator a few days ago. He claims there are roughly 12000 foreclosures a month in the greater Phoenix area.

If this is true (and he is a position to know), the media is either being misinformed or deliberately misinforming the public. Which ever happens to be the case, the situation appears even worse than we’re led to believe.

Anyone else see a high probability for another Great Depression?

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-15 17:10:22

“Worried,” have you not been reading here recently? Many posters here talking GD.

What’s the population of the greater Phoenix area? If Calif has 37 million people and 101,000 foreclosures in August, maybe PHX rate is not really worse.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-11-15 18:25:39

Wiki says greater Metro PHX = over 4 million people making it about a 1% per month foreclosure rate

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-15 19:35:42

(How 1%? 12000/(4 mil) = 0.3 of 1%; anyway, about the same rate as Calif.)

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Comment by KenWPA
2008-11-15 20:12:53

I think we are spreading the pain of our greater depression over many generations thru the Fed and treasury actions. Once again, we are doing everything possible to avoid taking the nasty medicine that is required to cure this Debt problem.

We are using more debt and leverage to cure Our overall debt problem. Is it going to work longterm? I have to doubt it, but it might prolong the true pain, while at the same time reducing the severity of the pain for most people.

If things were left on their own, we would already be seeing an economic collapse of a proportion, where the term Great Depression would take on a whole new meaning. Our new Depression would probably be called the Crappy Depression or Greatly depressing Greater Depression. But then again, back then they didn’t throw several trillion dollars at the problem early on to reduce the pain.

Time will tell, but most people that I know are barely keeping their heads above water while working, without jobs? I just don’t see anything good coming from that…..myself included. My 6 month cash emergency fund seems a bit optimistic right now, and my expenses are low enough to cover with state unemployment benefits.

Comment by crisrose
2008-11-15 20:23:06

Same here. I have enough cash to last a year with no income. I don’t think it’s enough.

 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 22:55:29

Back then, they threw about 50 billion at it early on. Looks like it didn’t work.

 
 
 
Comment by Big Guy
2008-11-15 15:45:56

No one even comments on the squatters and scammers anymore.

It’s amazing the cops can’t just arrest them for trespassing or something. I may pitch a tent in the Beverly Center and lay claim to all west of the Victoria’s Secret

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-15 16:17:13

“No one even comments on the squatters”

I’ll comment. I aspire to being a squatter, under Florida’s adverse possession laws.

Comment by DebtinNation
2008-11-15 19:45:00

When I went to India, I had to squat. Many of their toilets consist of a hole in the ground.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-11-15 20:42:48

I could’ve gotten by without that visual.

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Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-15 16:36:07

Hey, careful there, buddy, I was once a squatter and I’m a good upstanding citizen (mostly). I would’ve stayed longer, too, but the landlady took all the appliances when she dumped the house. I squatted for awhile, but it just got to be too much like camping out, and I’d rather just go camp out, so I did.

And the police had an invite to my squatter’s parties, but they never showed. Oh well, just another experience for my varied and somewhat impressive resume, assuming you’re easily impressed.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-15 16:54:09

Losty, dude, and palmy wants to join the club now…we need to start a Squatters Forum. No, really, I mean it. Helpful hints and all that.

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-15 17:16:07

OK, I’m game, but can I put in a plug once in awhile if I start a new Squatter’s B&B?

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Comment by B. Durbin
2008-11-15 17:44:40

Quite honestly, renters who had their place foreclosed out from under them are the only group of people who have my unequivocal sympathy in this mess. I got an email from some friends searching for assistance for a family of their friends— with kids and dogs— who thought they’d have a month or so to search for a place and move and ended up with a weekend and no chance to scare up a deposit. You’re actually lucky you got the chance to “squat”, though in your case it was more like a delayed eviction.

 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 15:47:45

A Chinese guy in Santa Clara got laid off and shot 19 coworkers.

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-15 16:05:36

Yeah, some of those furriners can be real sore-heads.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-11-15 18:34:08

At my last start-up we had to hire a security guard for a week after each round of layoffs to make sure no one came back in with guns blazing.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2008-11-15 16:15:49

Didn’t mean to be so flippant about it, Big V. Any background on the guy? Was he one of those H1B visa folks, or what? Or Chinese-American?

Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-11-15 16:37:10

kato22 posted above that 3 people were shot.

Comment by kato22
2008-11-15 17:05:03

Read about the news at http://www.mercurynews.com.

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Comment by kato22
2008-11-15 17:06:18

By the way, they just caught the guy.

 
Comment by SV guy
2008-11-16 07:29:26

“By the way, they just caught the guy.”

They caught the SOB about three miles (as the crow flies) from my house.

Mike

 
 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 18:09:01

I don’t know, maybe he shot 19 but only killed 3. I just heard that 19 number from a person, not from the news.

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Comment by Big V
2008-11-15 18:12:33

I guess my source was really off because the guy was fired, not laid off, and only shot 3 people. Guess I shouldn’t spread so many rumors, huh?

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-11-15 20:49:27

Like “only” three deaths is any less of a tragedy? Not to the families and friends of the victims.

Guys like the shooter should be tried one day, sentenced the next, then hanged on the third. Swift and certain justice instead of million-dollar trials and legal show-boating.

 
 
 
 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-11-15 16:46:10

Guy shoots 19 people and it doesn’t even make the national news? Jeeze.

Comment by aNYCdj
2008-11-15 18:03:39

This is exactly why Management consultants is probably the biggest scam there is.

No way will you ever conclude the only thing wrong with the company is the President. Get rid of the Pres and the company will run just fine.

Most people don’t want the management or presidents job, they just want someone who is much better then the jerk they have to deal with everyday.

 
 
Comment by Kyle
2008-11-15 21:42:07

Then Blackwater sent him a job offer.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-15 16:52:15

“Southland economist Nancy D. Sidhu, in a speech at the San Gabriel Valley Economic Partnership’s Economic Outlook Breakfast, said the economy may begin to pick up by the end of next year, and that by 2010, we should be well on the road to recovery. ‘The storm will be severe through the next six to nine months with gradual clearing and sunny skies by 2010 and 2011,’ she said. ‘Watch for housing upturns.’”

I guess Nancy never saw that Ivy Zelman chart that showed peak prime and Alt-A resets in 2010? I cannot see how skies can clear when the high end is collapsing.

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-15 17:17:00

And BTW we are right now at the trough between the two peaks of Zellman’s chart. If FC takes 6-12 mos after reset, it seems conceivable we could see some slight relief from FC’s late next year…but it’ll be a false signal. As you indicate, the 2nd peak is almost as high as the 1st, and much broader. Also possible we will NOT see even a mild slowing in FCs, since UnderWaterNess and/or job loss may now be driving FCs harder than ARM resets are driving them.

Comment by hunkydory
2008-11-16 00:14:32

much of the second wave was expected to reset early due to price drops.

 
 
Comment by rms
2008-11-15 20:37:28

“‘The storm will be severe through the next six to nine months with gradual clearing and sunny skies by 2010 and 2011,’ she said. ‘Watch for housing upturns.’”

I’ll be on the lookout for Nancy’s upturned a$$ in 2011. :)

Comment by hunkydory
2008-11-16 09:54:40

“Sunny skies by 2010″. Who would make a comment like that at this moment in time, much less an economist? Man she is going to be eating those words for the rest of her natural born life.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-15 16:54:38

“Here’s Cleveland, in his own words: ‘I would have to agree that we haven’t seen the end of the mortgage mess yet…What I am seeing here in San Diego is a continued feeding frenzy. Yes some are losing their houses, but there are people out there that are bidding up the prices of homes that are in short sale or are foreclosed thinking they are getting a great deal.’”

I am not planning to even look around until the denial phase gives way to the ‘real estate is the worst investment’ phase.

Comment by Mo Money
2008-11-15 18:30:40

I get told all the time that this is the best time to buy by people claiming
to be Real Estate investors. None of them has been through a downturn before and thinks they are geniuses when in fact they were just lucky. The proof of this is that they can’t explain why credit dried up or why housing got so expensive in the 1st place.

Comment by Bluto
2008-11-15 21:16:21

there is some great dialog along these lines in “The Grifters” (an excellent movie and book) regarding marks…. something like “they made money when everyone was making money and then they started thinking they were smart”

 
 
Comment by Lisa
2008-11-15 18:51:01

“I am not planning to even look around until the denial phase gives way to the ‘real estate is the worst investment’ phase.”

Me too. I bought in ‘96 when everyone thought I was completely insane to buy a house, it had gotten so ugly in CA by the early ’90’s.

Sold in ‘04 when bubble mania was in full swing.

I won’t even start looking until late 2009 or 2010. There’s no point in having higher carrying costs than renting for a declining asset.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-15 21:59:18

Lisa — We bought in ‘96 as well. Our neighbors acted as though we were crazy to take the risk, as they were well aware of how far the values of their homes had dropped.

 
 
Comment by DebtinNation
2008-11-15 19:49:41

When will the fools be out of the game? I thought they would have already been parted from their money. Doesn’t it take money to buy houses these days, rather than just the ability to fog a mirror?

 
 
Comment by FP
2008-11-15 17:52:34

“But despite these grim realities, Elk grove is managing well. First, in housing, of the more than 51,000 homes in city limits, only 11,000 are bank-owned; that’s two percent — well below Sacramento County’s average.”

Where are they coming up with this math? where’s the zero?

 
Comment by jeff
2008-11-15 19:02:37

2005 prices will be back in 2016? AAAAAhahahaha! That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard in a loooong time. Basically that would require another HUGE bubble in order to occur. Ain’t gonna happen, and if it does–RUN FOR YOUR LIFE because this country is doomed.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-11-15 19:39:32

No, it would not require another bubble. Just a little inflation would do the trick. Nothing even close to hyperinflation would be required.

For example, a house purchased for $100K in 1970 would cost about 212,605 in 1980 correcting only for inflation over that period.

Comment by Ted
2008-11-15 20:13:20

Bingo

 
Comment by crisrose
2008-11-15 20:40:50

Not a “little inflation” - 100 percent inflation spread over seven years (a 50 percent decrease necessitates a 100 percent increase to get back to base).

And that’s just California and only if prices STOP falling. Anyone think we’ve hit bottom?

Florida is worse - they’ll need 300 percent inflation (2006 $156,000 condos now selling for $38,000).

And we’ll only get that type of inflation if WAGES inflate. Anyone see any evidence of that?

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-15 22:00:23

Mass layoffs and wage inflation do not traditionally go hand in hand. Perhaps this time is different, though I seriously doubt it.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-15 21:54:32

“When Ryan Zimmermann last month arrived for a walk-through of the four-bedroom Corona house he had just bought at a bank auction, he got a big surprise. Someone else had moved in. David Dobbs refuses to leave. Neighbors said he showed up late one night a few weeks ago and unloaded his belongings from a small trailer. He filled the once empty swimming pool and spa and had cable hooked up to his wide-screen television. Police allowed him to stay after he showed them a rental agreement and what he said was the deed proving this landlord is the owner.”

The Visitor

 
2008-11-16 10:30:58

Thats nuts about that guy moving in and squatting!

 
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