November 20, 2008

Good Times For Resale In California

Reuters reports on California. “Home sales in the San Francisco Bay area rose nearly 39 percent in October from a year earlier and the median home price posted a record fall, a report on Thursday said. The median price paid for all homes in the region fell to $375,000 in October, down 40.6 percent from a year earlier, as the median price fell for an 11th consecutive month on a year-over-year basis. The median price was down 6.3 percent from September, MDA DataQuick said.”

“In October, 44.8 percent of all existing homes sold in the San Francisco Bay area had been foreclosed on at some point in the prior 12 months, up from 41.9 percent in the prior month and 8.2 percent a year ago, according to MDA DataQuick.”

“‘The dramatic, near free-fall in the Bay Area’s median sale price in recent months stems mainly from the shift toward more sales occurring in lower-cost inland markets. At the same time, the role of foreclosures continued to grow across the region, adding more downward pressure to the median,’ John Walsh, MDA DataQuick president, said in a statement.”

The Mercury News. “More Santa Clara County homes changed hands last month than during ultra-slow October 2007, but median prices fell sharply compared to last year. Previously foreclosed properties accounted for more than one-third of sales in the county. The median price of the houses sold last month was $515,250, down 34 percent from a year earlier, according to MDA DataQuick.”

“In San Mateo County, the median price of resale houses fell 26 percent last month, to $642,500,. In Alameda County, resale house prices dropped 39 percent, to $380,000. Contra Costa County’s median house price plunged 49 percent, to $275,000.”

The Marin Independent Journal. “Marin’s median price for all homes was $599,750, down 31.5 percent from the $857,000 median a year ago. The median price of a single-family home in Marin last month was $850,000, down 13 percent from $978,000 last year, MDA DataQuick of San Diego reported Thursday.”

“The San Francisco 49ers, San Jose Earthquakes and Oakland A’s, all of which hope to open new homes worth a combined $1.5 billion by 2012, insist they are forging ahead. But the economy is raising tough questions about where all that money will come from, and when. Lew Wolff, the multimillionaire developer who owns both the Quakes and the A’s, has told the Mercury News he’s no longer planning to immediately fund his projects — in San Jose and Fremont, respectively — with proceeds from planned residential developments.”

“Wolff has asked the city’s permission to allow residential construction on the site; he would then sell it to housing developers and use the profits to build the stadium. Now Wolff finds himself waiting for the housing market to rebound. ‘If this was a typical recession, then I don’t think it would be a big factor,’ Fremont Mayor Bob Wasserman said of the economy. ‘But we’re talking about something different.’ If the residential piece of the project lags, he fears, the stadium itself could be delayed.”

Palo Alto Online. “Developer John McNellis’ decade-long quest to replace the boarded-up Alma Plaza shopping center with a grocery store, 37 homes, a commercial building with 14 below-market-rate apartments and a ‘community room’ may stretch into a second decade.”

“‘Financing a mixed-use project is historically difficult,’ McNellis said. ‘We’ll be seeking to finance these projects separately. There are lenders who will consider low-income housing and there are other lenders who will consider commercial.’”

The Merced Sun Star. “At one of the city’s abandoned … er … I mean … temporarily vacated home developments, the builder has left a half-built wall that seems to attract spray paint cans like the Raiders attract tailgaters. I’ve received many calls about the graffiti problem in this area, but it wasn’t until I saw it with my own eyes Saturday that I realized how bad it had gotten.”

“The would-be home of Highland Park, which has halted development, is apparently the home of a nest of taggers that have littered the massive wall with their ‘art.’ The city is already in negotiations with Pacific Pride of Modesto, the company in control of the property. City of Merced spokesman Mike Conway says the city wants the company to fix the problem and prevent it in the future.”

“‘We want them to include landscaping and water so that you have something growing on it,’ said Conway. ‘No fresh canvas for all of those vandals to attack.’”

The Bakersfield Californian. “An Oregon man finally got a look at his elderly mother’s northeast Bakersfield house Wednesday, a day or two after people who had been living there without his consent vacated the property. A refrigerator was gone. Graffiti was spray painted throughout the garage and scribbled on a bedroom wall in permanent marker. A rear window was smashed, and holes marred several walls. Air duct vents had been removed. The carpet was stained in every room.”

“And a few furniture pieces that don’t belong to Harold Pretorius’ mother were scattered about, including, oddly, a pool table in the driveway. ‘They only left me a couple of balls and no cues, so I can’t even play while I wait for the police,’ Pretorius said wryly.”

“Pretorius recently moved his 89-year-old mother to a nursing home near him and was overseeing the sale of her house. In September, Pretorius called police and told them squatters had broken in and threatened a pending sale.”

“When police went to the home last month to investigate, they found Michael Ayala living there with a girlfriend, a roommate and the roommate’s 8-year-old son. Pretorius had his attorney serve Ayala and his friends with an ejection notice two weeks ago, and then cut off water and electrical power, which had been in his mother’s name. Pretorius then put a fraud alert on the accounts, preventing anyone but him from turning on service.”

“Next, Pretorius reported Ayala to the city’s Division of Code Enforcement for residing in a home without power or water. ‘That is a violation because without electricity we worry about people lighting candles and burning down the place, and no water becomes a health and sanitation issue because you can’t flush toilets,’ said chief code enforcement officer Randy Fidler.”

“Ayala and his roommates did not leave after a 48-hour warning was posted on the house last week, so an inspector red-tagged it, notifying occupants that anyone found residing there would be cited with a misdemeanor safety violation until utilities were restored.”

“Pretorius said he feels violated and powerless. His buyer has walked away, and now he has to spend thousands of dollars on repairs. ‘I can’t believe they called this a civil matter,’ he said. ‘If stealing a house from an 89-year-old woman isn’t a crime, I don’t know what is.’”

“Will Lehman Brothers get to foreclose on McAllister Ranch? A federal bankruptcy judge in Santa Ana is slated to decide the thorny question Thursday afternoon. A foreclosure would wipe out claims of junior creditors and unpaid construction companies owed hundreds of millions.”

“There’s a new big-name player in the ongoing involuntary bankruptcy case: Lennar Homes. The homebuilder’s California division put down about $22.6 million of deposits in 2006 for purchase agreements regarding McAllister Ranch, but the deals never closed. Lennar now believes its deposit money may have been transferred to Lehman’s commercial paper unit, a recent court filing shows.”

“SunCal Cos., the Irvine developer that partnered with Lehman on numerous projects including McAllister, recently filed five more involuntary bankruptcy petitions for Lehman-related projects. Twenty Lehman-SunCal developments are now in bankruptcy court.”

“The latest filings affect high-rise condos in Century City, the Delta Coves waterfront development on Bethel Island, Avalon Palm Springs near Palm Springs, Oak Knoll in Oakland and the early-stage Del Amo project in Torrance. SunCal also filed three voluntary bankruptcy petitions Wednesday.”

The Tribune. “A top state banking official Wednesday reiterated what others have said about the nation’s economy — that the next 18 months to two years will require considerable belt-tightening, ‘and it’s going to hurt.’”

“And as the recovery occurs, the stock market will have to ‘come back to reality’ and housing prices will have to return to a level that’s compatible with what people earn, said Jim Lokey, president of community banking for Rabobank, N.A., who’s also chairman of the California Bankers Association.”

“Lokey also said he wouldn’t shy away from investing in real estate. ‘If you plan on living in it a while, I wouldn’t be afraid to buy a house today or get a mortgage today,’ he said.”

“Lokey also used the forum to offer his personal explanation for how and why the nation’s economy fell on hard times. He pointed out two culprits in the financial collapse: banks generating home equity loans, which homeowners tapped into to make major purchases; and exotic mortgage products that allowed people to buy more house than they could afford. In this ‘consumer-driven’ economy, people were encouraged to spend far more than they earned, he said.’

“‘Those loans were something I didn’t believe banks should do,’ he said. ‘Home equity was your security; you just didn’t tap into that.’”

“But the final straw, he said, was subprime lending that enabled financial institutions to take the risk and make loans to people with less-than-stellar credit. The subprime loans were packaged as mortgage-backed securities and sold to investors hoping for higher returns.”

“‘Everyone knew that real estate goes up 25 percent a year,’ Lokey said, pointing to the fallacy of that statement. As the economy slowed, some homeowners stopped paying their mortgages and banks worldwide stopped lending to each other. And ‘the people at the highest levels of government panicked,’ he said.”

The Orange County Register. “There’s a sense of urgency in Yadira Gomez’s voice as she outlines the crises facing the families she helps at the Share Our Selves, a social service agency in Costa Mesa. Two to three families a day walk into the nonprofit’s crowded waiting room facing essentially identical situations: The interests rates on their home loans have skyrocketed, their mortgage bill has doubled or tripled, and their home is slipping into foreclosure.”

“Across the county this fall, nonprofits and government agencies have been overwhelmed by this new population of clients. Mortgage brokers, real estate agents, construction CEOs: these are the types of clients that SOS doctors, nurse practitioners and volunteers are helping, says Karen Harrington, director of development. Often, the clients are in shock over their situation. ”

“‘There are a lot more conversations in exam rooms of ‘I’d never think that I would be here.’ It’s not what you typically expect to see,’ said Harrington.”

The Press Enterprise. “The notice on the door of Robin Elder’s upscale consignment store — a picture of a turkey and the phrase ‘I’m stuffed’ — is a sign of the times. Good times for resale. ”

“A bad economy equals a boost in business for consignment shops, say owners, who report a marked increase in customers looking for bargains. They’re also seeing a jump in the number of people wanting to exchange their old clothes for cash. ‘More people are bringing things in to sell. I have so much,’ said Elder, owner of My Girlfriend’s Closet in Temecula. Thus the sign on her door.”

“More people are willing to take an instant payout — basically ‘garage sale’ prices — for their Coach bags and True Religion jeans, she said.”

“The trend is not limited to the Inland area, said Adele Meyer, executive director of the National Association of Retail and Thrift Shops. A recent survey of the trade group’s 1,000 members showed that 66 percent of stores saw sales climb between January and August, compared with the same period a year before. Sales were up an average of 35 percent.”

“More than 85 percent of stores said the number of new customers has increased, and 75 percent have seen new people bringing in merchandise to sell, Meyer said.”

“Mary Irey, owner of New 2 You in Grand Terrace, (has) noticed an uptick in new shoppers looking for big-ticket items such as appliances, furniture and cookware. Irey gets some of her merchandise from auctions of moving and storage units that are abandoned, and she figures some of it has to do with the rash of foreclosures.”

“Rhonda Sher, of Murrieta, is a consignment aficionado, seeking out ‘upscale and bling,’ like the one-of-a-kind, hand-painted Saks jacket she scored for $49, worth hundreds at retail. Some of her favorite detours are Sparkle Plenty Resale Boutique in Oceanside and the annual white elephant sale at the Oakland Museum of California. ‘In this market, it’s just a fabulous way to shop,’ she said.”

“Sher also frequents Ronni’s Resale in Sun City, where a $1,000 St. John knit can be had for $160. Clothes are marked down regularly until they make their way out the door after 60 days, owner Ronni Kantra-Peters said. ‘If it’s been in a lady’s closet for more than a year, we’re not interested’ in buying, she said.”

The Desert Sun. “Coachella Valley home sales during the third quarter of 2008 jumped 51.5 percent compared to 2007, driven predominately by buyers nabbing foreclosures and other distressed properties. Average prices are down as banks try to clear out the rising number of foreclosures and other sellers try to compete with the deals offered on distressed properties.”

“‘It’s creating new market-level prices and competition,’said Patrick Veling, president of Brea-based Real Data Strategies. ‘Traditional sellers can agree to meet or beat (bank prices) or simply wait it out.’”

“The bulk of homes sold are going for less than $500,000, a price point that traditionally has been described as the entry-level market. In 2007, homes priced under $500,000 made up 68 percent of all local sales. In the third quarter of 2008, they accounted for nearly 85 percent.”

“In many cities where sales are up, the total volume of sales — the value of all the sold homes’ prices — is on par or even less than years where they saw fewer sales. Take the 92240 ZIP code of Desert Hot Springs. In third quarter 2006, 176 entry-level homes were sold equating to nearly $50.1 million in sales. Compare that to third quarter 2008, when 220 homes were sold — a 25 percent increase — but average prices have dropped about $150,000. Total sales equated to $29.5 million.”

“Experts say not all those are traditional entry-level homes. Some are move-up or upscale homes that have seen dramatic price reductions in order to draw buyers. ‘You’re seeing condos with a ‘1′ in front of it instead of a ‘2,’ Palm Springs Regional Association of Realtors executive officer Sam Schenkl said. ‘You’re getting a second chance at a home that may have been priced out of your reach.’”

“Kevin Stern has witnessed the market shift firsthand. The Rancho Mirage-based Windermere agent does a lot of business in Cathedral City. ‘Some of these homes that are selling in the 200 or $300,0000 range were selling for 4, 5, $600,000,’ said Stern, who wrote three offers this weekend including one for a foreclosure that had nine offers. ‘They’re priced extremely competitively and aggressively. It’s all a matter of pricing and products.’”




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132 Comments »

Comment by climber
2008-11-20 13:26:59

“Pretorius said he feels violated and powerless. His buyer has walked away, and now he has to spend thousands of dollars on repairs. ‘I can’t believe they called this a civil matter,’ he said. ‘If stealing a house from an 89-year-old woman isn’t a crime, I don’t know what is.’”

What a bunch of totally worthless pukes. And I mean the police and courts along with the squatters.

Comment by Frank Giovinazzi
2008-11-20 15:59:45

I met a Detective the other evening who confirmed a long-held suspicion about economic crime: “We’re not staffed and don’t have the training,” she said in response to my question about mortgage and other kinds of housing fraud.

Comment by The Housing Wizard
2008-11-20 16:34:39

Ok, about time for the lawmakers to make these crimes big
offenses ,such as they enacted laws on gouging during a emergency,
or a hurricane .

 
Comment by climber
2008-11-20 17:14:04

How much training does it take to arrest squatters for trespassing and vandalism? That’s ridiculous. The property owner calls with a valid complaint, get to work.

The other option is to deputize the property owner, give them kevlar and a gun and set them on it.

Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 17:51:37

Other options include:

1. Reduce the price of the house to whatever someone is willing and able to pay.

2. Rent the house out to paying tenants.

3. Move into the house or have a relative move in.

4. Hire a house sitter.

There, that wasn’t so hard, now was it?

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Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2008-11-20 21:27:20

1. Lose money because someone else broke the law and ruined the value of your property. (Money the mother may need to pay for her nursing home.)

2.) Unless you think and hope that mom may be coming home so you don’t want to get renters and by the time you realize mom is not coming home…. see 1.

3.) Quit your job, depart Oregon and move to Bakersfield, leaving your own house vacant so different squatters can move in, vandalize it and leave a different mess for you to clean up while you guard mom’s house because you don’t have any homeless relatives.

4.) My house sitter is $35/day and that’s cheap here. Maybe with mom in nursing care they don’t have the funds to pay someone to protect property that our taxes are supposed to protect. And maybe they didn’t know they should because they foolishly thought the police would remove people who illegally break into their home.

How about 5.) Blame the criminals who broke into the home, destroyed it and used a faulty system to avoid any penalty or punishment for their actions.

I rarely get really angry towards posts here, but this family is going through enough right now and with the parade of false victims we read about daily, to actually see real victims get slammed is ridiculous. Trying to deal with nursing care and moving a relative out of state is a hell of a lot of work. This guy called the police in September. They didn’t even bother to go to the home until October and then did nothing. Now he has to do everything to get these criminals off his property. I agree with Climber - kevlar and a gun sounds like the right prescription to me.

So yeah, in the real world it is a big deal. Blame and punish the criminals. Not the victims.

 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-21 00:09:19

If you leave your house vacant for a long time without so much as checking on it, then squatters will move in. The cops can’t prevent this nearly as easily as you can.

 
 
Comment by SV_renter
2008-11-20 18:32:30

Can you sic’ your dog on trespassers squatting in a property you own?

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Comment by Wickedheart
2008-11-20 20:28:14

Hahahaha, I see you don’t know how it works here in Cali. My parents had some “professional tenants” once. They didn’t pay for 6 months, ran illegals, did all kinds of nefarious stuff and they had all the rights. My parents hired a lawyer and it still took over 6 months to be rid of them. Even after they moved my parents had no rights to enter their own property because the “tenants” did not return the key. Have you ever been in a drop house? Gross doesn’t even begin to describe it.

 
Comment by David
2008-11-20 21:01:17

another reason not to buy real estate, even at affordable prices.

 
Comment by implosion
2008-11-21 00:39:46

Especially in states with absurd “tenant’s rights”. I can’t believe these douchebags who wouldn’t be missed are still alive.

 
Comment by The_Overdog
2008-11-21 09:41:39

yeah, sorry but no sympathy for them here from me either. you pass a dumb one-sided law, then enjoy the results.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-20 13:30:47

DOW 8000

(2012)

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-20 14:28:11

Sweet Mother a’ Jaysus! I’m droppin’ Twizzlers over here!

You know what, we need to start a forum over in the forum thingie, titled ‘How much money did Ben Jones and the HousingBubbleBlog save us?’

For those of us who can’t add good with that ticky abstract concept number thingie (like me) those of us, we can estimate in terms we can understand, such as: How many cases of beer, how many high-heel shoes on sale, how many bags of Twizzlers…like that, did Ben Jones and the blog and the rest of you smarty-pantses save us?!

Do you.. Igh..gurg…wah?..Muther!…

Okay, gotta go barf. Not on my behalf, praise Jaysus, but on the behalf of Every. Single. Other. Person. I. Know.

Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-20 17:17:29

So very glad I moved 401k into all credit union side of funds. Cash. In October07. I know I probably missed a dollar or two, but I saved a bunch compared to others in my work force.They truly are singing the blues.

I suspect that those who are not going to be paying their cc bills on time will be the other shoe dropping on this economy.

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-20 17:45:58

The collective sum would be impressive. We probably should give some to Ben, too.

We were all cash by the end of ‘06. A little too early, but it’s a nice feeling to open those statements and watch the number stay the same and be +3%.

I remain respectfully silent when those in my family discuss the carnage in their 401(k)s.

Comment by In Montana
2008-11-20 19:57:04

Oh, I wish someone would at least ASK me so I can say no problemo - I got out last year, neener neener!!!!

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Comment by We Rent!
2008-11-20 22:07:38

I don’t.

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Comment by az_lender
2008-11-20 17:43:24

I wish to take credit for my answers during the week of November 1, when some HBBer’s were asking if “the low” of 7800 ish of October 24 would in fact be The Low for 2008. I said NO, not even for 2008. My answer today is that The Low of 7552 for today is also not The Low for 2008. Even if we have a rally next week. Also, some asked if they should now be buying stocks, since in fact we will not know The Low when we see it. My answer is still NO. And believe me, there will be a time when it will change to YES.

(Remember, you’re getting all this from someone who still owns bonds issued by the Republic of Iceland, so no claim of infallibility is to be imputed to me. OTOH, all my borrowers are still paying promptly.)

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-20 17:47:56

az_lender -

Out of curiosity, what’s the basis on the lows? (I pat you on the back and I’m inclined to believe you thus far. :)) Are you looking at P/E ratios or some other set of figures?

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-20 22:10:34

It’s the reaction of an aged person who remembers the DJIA being below 600 at the end of 1974, a time much less scary than this. Mindless inflation adjustment would translate that 600 to somewhere between 3000 and 4000. Of course, mindless inflation adjustment is inappropriate. Or is it? Anyway, at DJIA 4000 I will begin looking at PE’s and trying to see if I believe them.

Other things could happen that would cause me to change my mind about expecting DJIA 4000. But they haven’t happened yet.

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Comment by Mike in Carlsbad
2008-11-20 23:34:09

NPR Marketplace had Schiff on, he expects the DOW to hit 5000 and gold oz to hit 5000 at the same time as happened in a prior recession (can’t remember the yr was 1000 to 1000 I think).

 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 17:58:31

Yes, I remember that. I think I was the person asking. You guys are pretty good at convincing me not to buy stocks, especially the Hozzelater.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 18:56:49

Let’s just take a look at that 20 year Nikkei chart. Oh, but that couldn’t happen here. Please dear god, don’t let that happen here.

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Comment by Gonarat
2008-11-20 21:00:54

As of approx. 10:50 pm est Thursday –

NIKKEI 7,530.86 -172.18 -2.24%

HANG SENG 11,954.68 -343.88 -2.68%

It looks like the Dow/Nasdaq/S&P will be down again Friday if the Friday numbers for Asia set the trend for the day. We may be well into 6’s or 5’s for the Dow by Christmas at this rate. Another 300 points or so, and we could see a triple-digit NASDAQ (remember the days of 5000+????)

 
 
 
Comment by climber
2008-11-20 13:38:21

“‘We want them to include landscaping and water so that you have something growing on it,’ said Conway. ‘No fresh canvas for all of those vandals to attack.’”

And they want YOU to enforce the stinking law against the vandals. Such a novel concept - property is worth more in jurisdictions that can actually enforce the law. Even been to Beirut or Detroit? How’s that for property values?

 
Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-20 13:38:47

I forgot to include this from the OCR when I initially posted:

‘There’s a sense of urgency in Yadira Gomez’s voice as she outlines the crises facing the families she helps at the Share Our Selves, a social service agency in Costa Mesa. Two to three families a day walk into the nonprofit’s crowded waiting room facing essentially identical situations: The interests rates on their home loans have skyrocketed, their mortgage bill has doubled or tripled, and their home is slipping into foreclosure.’

‘Across the county this fall, nonprofits and government agencies have been overwhelmed by this new population of clients. Mortgage brokers, real estate agents, construction CEOs: these are the types of clients that SOS doctors, nurse practitioners and volunteers are helping, says Karen Harrington, director of development. Often, the clients are in shock over their situation.’

‘There are a lot more conversations in exam rooms of ‘I’d never think that I would be here.’ It’s not what you typically expect to see,’ said Harrington.’

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-20 14:24:30

You wouldn’t expect the biggest mania in history to end with a whimper, would you?

It always ends with a spectacular bang. We’re not there yet. Check back in mid-2009 to late-2009.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-20 14:32:16

‘We’re not there yet.’

Are you SERIOUS?! Mother a Jaysus! I’m adroppin’ more Twizzlers!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-20 14:35:54

Yeah, we’re not there yet.

We’re a little past the halfway mark in the first game of a double header.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-20 14:48:42

The reason I’m so dramatic and excitable—more than normal, I mean—is that this afternoon I encountered our shared office manager crying. Not like big boo-hoos and wailing, like how I do it, which is; theatrically and you can hear me in Thailand.
No, this was somehow scarier than that, because it was little subdued ‘boo-hoos’. It was like catching your mom crying, Faster! Just absolutely plain awful!
I was gentle, imaging some hideous issue, such as she couldn’t find her favorite rain boots–it’s raining like mad here—or else her boyfriend is threatening to tell her husband, or even worse, her other boyfriend, but no, that wasn’t it.
It’s even WORSE worser than that, it turns out. It’s this ‘DJIA: See all the money go away’ thing.
They have lost a lot of money. Too bad she didn’t make time in her busy work-day to read the HBB obsessively.
Serious, I am feeling pretty grateful for this blog right now.

Ben? Ben? I wanna get off. Stop the ride. This is not fun anymore.

 
Comment by MacAttack
2008-11-20 16:04:42

Hopefully she’s 50 or younger. Same thing happened to me and my wife. We’ve lost a lot of money too - ($60K? That’s a lot to us), but we keep putting that 15% in and figuring it will come back. Please pass along my sentiments and a hug.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-20 16:59:48

‘Hopefully she’s 50 or younger.’

Nope. I don’t think. Everyone out here ages slower–it’s the ‘no sun’ and lots of rain thing, but nope. Plus she has a bunch a loser kids who have sucked her dry. Why do all the responsible ones have loser kids?

Answer that, and deliver the riddle of the Universe. There really is no other Big Riddle.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-11-20 17:19:13

Olympiagal,

Well then wonder no further. What I’ve noticed w/ clients over the years is that rather than help their kids that *did finish college, are ’still’ on their first marriage, s-u-p-p-o-r-t their own kids, only take positions that involve an advancement, pay their bills on time etc, they help the dirtbags!

WHY??? ( Because they can’t deal with the embarrassment of having “loser kids”! ) So kid takes “loan” then blows majority on something ‘other’ than what was intended, and now s/he is in jeopardy of not being able to pay their club dues or ( insert staus symbol here ____ )

Once again “mom and dad can’t have that” and besides how would look when everyone ‘else’ has a home on the lake etc? So the loser kid never aspires to be anything more than just a little sub-standard knowing all the while mom and dad will subsidize the difference. And it only goes downhill from there.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-20 17:39:07

DinOR.
I don’t think it’s because of shame. It couldn’t be shame, or why would the good lady wear that horrible skirt time and again? Ignoring all subtle hints? And I suck at subtle hints. Me and subtle never have got within kicking difference of each other. I think it’s because these people are ‘good’.

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-20 17:54:45

Ben? Ben? I wanna get off. Stop the ride. This is not fun anymore.

When I realized what was coming a couple of years ago (in no small part thanks to this blog), I knew the ride was just plain old going to bite. Thankfully my husband believed the crazy women he married that we needed to get/stay debt free, not try to stretch for another house, and that buy and hold stocks was a hideously, horribly bad idea.

And I agree with FPSS - it gets way worse before it gets better. I have hope for my sister - she has time and she’ll be okay. My in-laws, though, who have built their whole world around money and their “retirement investments” worry me.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-11-20 18:00:26

Olympiagal,

You might be missing the point.

It’s not for ‘themselves’ that they do it and it’s not for themselves that they feel shame. It’s almost as deeply ingrained as “real estate always goes up”, “throwing your money away on rent” when it comes to: “I’m so proud of my children” and “Each generation should do better than the last!”.

They ‘will’ drive an older car, they ‘will’ make excuses to their friends ( and evidently they ‘will’ wear shabby clothes ) I watched my ex-BIL absolutely BILK 10’s of thousands of dollars out his parents! ( That I know about ) yet his brother never took a dime.

Uh… gee mom we’ve come up a little short on bills, can ya’ “loan” us about 5 grand? Wow, that IS… a “little short”. Then they launch into a tirade about how hard their lives are and how they’re on the brink of a divorce over finances etc. ( and mom can’t live w/ the thought of a broken family ) so out the checkbook comes..!

They’re masters at it.

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-20 18:00:49

I think it’s because these people are ‘good’.

And they think that being “good” means that you compensate for the errors of others, especially your children. Somehow being “good” and the word “no” are completely at odds.

Thankfully, I never worried about being good or “normal”. I’m lookin for happy and rich. :)

 
Comment by Sailor
2008-11-21 03:13:17

The sad part is they are the same people that are getting elected to office and think we should help out ever poor bastard that can’t manage thier own money.

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-11-20 15:16:27

The good thing about Twizzlers is, when you drop them and they bounce under the couch, you can see where exactly you need to wash off the pet fur.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 19:43:40

I find that hairy Twizzlers taste just like cotton candy after 12 or 13 Jack Daniels. I also find that our cats are usually walking funny the morning after I’ve had 12 or 13 Jack Daniels. I can’t figure out the correlation between my liver abuse and their poor posture. Maybe they are just trying to make me feel good but faking some sort of discomfort. They are so good and kind. But don’t believe a word they say. Those little floozies love to tell stories.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-20 13:41:03

“The San Francisco 49ers, San Jose Earthquakes and Oakland A’s, all of which hope to open new homes worth a combined $1.5 billion by 2012, insist they are forging ahead.”
====================================================

All of these “new homes” have beaucoup privacy boxes, where big money is paid to support the fantasy money splayed on the field of play.

Bling is dead or on life support, and even if people had the few thousand dollars or more to spend every game for a cubicle of their own, not many are going to be doing it anymore.

I wonder if overpaid athletes in professional sports are receiving their checks in a timely manner, nowadays?

Many, if not most teams are owned by people losing a lot of money in their day jobs, and/or corporations…

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-11-20 13:59:20

I can recall that during my college days back in the 1970s, wearing bling was one of the biggest faux pas you could commit.

I can recall one of my classmates, who was part of the Gamble family (of Procter and Gamble fame). I never saw bling anywhere near that girl.

She was also one of the nicest people you’d ever want to meet. Heckuva writer too. I understand that she went on to become a novelist.

Comment by ann gogh
2008-11-20 15:35:32

You must be talking about tracy gamble.
Pasadena preferred.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 19:47:20

“I can recall that during my college days back in the 1970s, wearing bling was one of the biggest faux pas you could commit. I can recall that during my college days back in the 1970s, wearing bling was one of the biggest faux pas you could commit.”

There it is again. I keep seeing “the 1970s” being written everywhere. We are going back to the ’70s. It wasn’t so bad. We just didn’t have anything and we didn’t really realize we didn’t have anything. There was nothing better than watching M*A*S*H the first time around. I’m looking forward to the new humility. My frugality will be the envy of the neighborhood. No, I’m not cheap. I just like value. I can’t help it. It was the Midwestern Catholic upbringing.

 
 
 
Comment by sf jack
2008-11-20 14:06:10

So, this morning on the radio I hear two auto advertisements from some of the biggest dealer groups in the Alt-A Bay.

The Audi one makes its case by saying “buy a car soon and get this economy moving again.” Even going so far as saying “you don’t have to buy from us - just buy.”

The Mercedes one (?) offers new lease terms to reduce payments or some such thing.

Signs of desperation…

In earlier times, in 2000, it was those flush with VC money, the dotcoms that wouldn’t quit with the ads.

In 2004-2006, even as recently as a few months ago, it was the mortgage peddlers and then the CAR or NAR.

Now, it’s the auto dealers - only they seem to be pleading for their survival in the local region.

Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 18:43:46

I’m starting to wish we had waiting on buying that Toyota last year (when I was still expecting the inflation from Hell). Oh well, the old Honda was starting to worry me anyway. Ho hum. You win some, you lose some.

 
 
Comment by KR
2008-11-20 14:06:55

no PPT today - I eat my words

Comment by sf jack
2008-11-20 14:26:32

Could the PPT just be tired? Today they seem to have given up mid-afternoon (EST).

I mean, they’ve apparently been working overtime for eight weeks now.

They’ve changed the game from a multi-day several thousand point drop to a multi-month several thousand point drop.

Cushioning the drop, so to speak… dragging it out. Which, I would guess, some academics will study and at some future date and decide which is better for the economy, consumer confidence, hiring/jobs and other items.

Comment by KR
2008-11-20 14:31:35

maybe they were there today. if they weren’t it might have dropped by 1000 - who knows anymore. it’s turned out to be a fools game

 
 
 
Comment by sf jack
2008-11-20 14:13:59

“‘The dramatic, near free-fall in the Bay Area’s median sale price in recent months stems mainly from the shift toward more sales occurring in lower-cost inland markets. At the same time, the role of foreclosures continued to grow across the region, adding more downward pressure to the median,’ John Walsh, MDA DataQuick president, said in a statement.”

*****

16% of sales in Marin were foreclosures apparently, where sales overall rose 1.3%.

The median price dropped 31.5% to $599K. Where would prices be without the foreclosures?

In any case, -31.5% could be called dramatic and Marin is definitely not in a “lower-cost inland market.”

Comment by sf jack
2008-11-20 14:17:59

And in the City, 10% of sales were foreclosures, with sales declining 21%.

Prices declined 12%.

Where’s the median if one takes out the foreclosures?

And again, is 12% “dramatic” given the “Real estate always goes up mantra” and that SF is definitely not a “lower-cost inland market.”

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-20 14:58:45

sf jack,

I’m just agog at some of the free falls we’re seeing in the ( economically “insulated” ) Bay Area. Just, blown away. Again I think this is just another case of local realtwhores and mortgage peddlers over leveraging the assets and FICO’s of any given market.

Given this is the “vaunted” BA, that’s saying something!

Comment by Anthony
2008-11-20 17:42:53

Well, I’ve seen very little fall in median home price in Eureka/Humboldt county. The article from earlier this week said affordability here was 13-15%, based on corrupted CAR methodology, which is lower than any of the “premier” coastal cities (SF, Westside LA). Median home prices have fallen only 15% here, versus over 40% elsewhere in the state. And, people are still eager to buy, convinced that the Humboldt county market is bulletproof (it is, so far). In a few months, the median home price in Eureka will be higher than SF.

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Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 18:48:04

Wait until people run out of $$ for pot.

 
Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2008-11-20 20:30:52

“Wait until people run out of $$ for pot.”

“Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope.”—Freewheelin’ Franklin

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by blofeld42
2008-11-20 14:14:48

The October DataQuick numbers for California are out:

http://www.dqnews.com/Charts/Monthly-Charts/CA-City-Charts/ZIPCAR.aspx

Santa Barbara -45%. Santa Cruz - 31%. Marin -31%. Monterey -41%. Orange -29%.

Sacramento -35%, even after the last few years of collapsing prices. Median sale price in Sacramento County is now under $200K and still dropping like a rock.

Comment by Deflationary Jane
2008-11-20 19:33:30

So those brilliant investors here are underwater already if they put down 20% or less and they bought even as recently as late summer. They are hosed and here is why-

One of the big banks finally got fed up and started dumping their better foreclosures on a big property management firm here. So much for banks not wanting to be landlords! Rental rates are now below $100/sqft and moving to less then $50/sqft in the really low income areas. Vacancy rates are “surprisingly” ramping up as families double and triple up to keep shelter costs down.

I left Sacramento in July and came back in October and I can really see the difference.

 
Comment by Curt
2008-11-20 19:53:04

I see that Joshua Tree is down over 23%…..p a u s e…..

 
Comment by David
2008-11-20 21:13:57

lots of cities starting with a “1″, as in under 200,000,

 
Comment by peter m
2008-11-20 22:00:09

I have posted the chart from dataquick for selected high- end areas of LA county. Finally the uppity ‘invincible’ parts of LA are cracking. The west SFV is not all hi-end of course but it is the best part of the valley.

Los Angeles Selected Areas
Westside 57 $885,000 $1,300,000 -31.92%
West LA 143 $670,000 $752,227 -10.93%
Mar Vista 32 $710,000 $824,500 -13.89%

San Fernando Valley Selected Areas
West San Fernando Valley 568 $389,000 $525,000 -25.90%

Southwest Los Angeles Selected Areas
Beach Cities 76 $896,000 $877,500 2.11%
South Bay 405 $512,500 $614,500 -16.60%
Palos Verdes Estates 10 $1,075,000 $1,430,000 -24.83%
Palos Verdes Peninsula Area 33 $950,000 $1,100,000 -13.64%
Westchester 18 $719,500 $849,500 -15.30%

 
 
Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-20 14:21:04

So… DOW down to 7,500 today. I have some serious questions for some of you financial gurus. As of right now, 75% of my savings is cash and CDs. The rest is in either my 401K and a couple of mutual funds which aren’t doing so hot, but better than the DOW, which isn’t saying much.

Now, I’m not interested in buying gold. But at this point, is cash a fairly safe thing to be in? The plan was to save up enough to move out of California and buy something cheap free and clear elsewhere. We could do so now, but our jobs are actually solid and secure, mine for at least a year. So its probably best that we stick it out. Any thoughts?

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-20 14:46:13

I guess you’d have to look at it from the perspective of what happens to real estate prices if the U.S. Dollar capitulates?

If the buck does a swan dive, it’s not as if real estate is going to go up, in fact it will still continue to go down, because it’s the one thing that can’t be exported-truly a local market.

People that have their money in something other than USD are at a distinct advantage, should this occur.

If you have the ‘right’ foreign currency or other barbarous relic, every action of the $ downward has an equal reaction in your favor.

An example:

Let’s say a house in Argentina was worth 50,000 Pesos on this day 7 years ago, and at the time 1 Peso = 1 USD, so it was worth 50 grand U.S.

Just a few months later that same house was still worth 50,000 Pesos, or about USD 17,000.

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-20 15:13:26

Well,
I’m looking at this not as some sort of investment plan, as in I’m not converting money into real estate. The plan is to buy as cheap as possible in a somewhat economically feasible area. For example, smallish, boring suburban homes in Atlanta can be had for 100k or less. Let’s say that I buy one and live in the thing. Assuming I keep on driving older cars, I will have no debt. Of course I’ll need health insurance, which means getting some sort of Joe-job that has health coverage. Additionally, I want to keep saving for retirement. Even a plain ole’ $12-$15 an hour job working at a store or what not would give me extra money to put into retirement- since the house is paid for.

So the name of the game I’m after is: No debt, everything paid for, low-profile living. Perhaps its less glamorous, but it might be secure.

Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 18:51:49

Hey Jetson Boy:

You might not be happier working at a low-level job. Those ones are usually harder and require more butt kissing. I think you should stick around and take advantage of low CA prices in a couple years. Let everyone else move out. Your kids will have the honor of being native Californians. You will finally have a history.

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Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-20 19:47:17

Well… Just a short 5 years ago, I worked in a “home supply center”. I mixed paint. It was a super-easy job. The pay sucked. I had to work every other weekends. But it required zero brain power. Only my back lifting cases of paint and dealing with clueless homeowners. So If I had too… I can go back because that’s where I started. My Wife is actually thinking of becoming a nurse. They typically make 100k no matter where you live. So if she did that, I could probably just do something like repair equipment, which I also used to do for a living.

We’ll see… She hates it here. I’m just so-so with it, but I like it.

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:02:14

“For example, smallish, boring suburban homes in Atlanta can be had for 100k or less.”

There’s a reason for that. Have you ever dealt with Atlanta traffic? I had to drive there in 2002 for business, from North Carolina. It was raining heavily and it was one of the worst driving experiences of my life. Driving to Duluth in a blizzard was the worst.

I know you don’t mean Atlanta specifically. But my point is that cheap housing is usually cheap for a reason. Right now trying to pick out a safe housing market is like trying to predict the stock market. I don’t want to do either. I’m hunkering down. If NYC turns bad on us we will go to Plan B. We all just need to be careful that Plan B isn’t worse than Plan A.

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Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-20 20:30:23

Yes,
I’m well-aware that places that are cheap(er) are cheap for a reason. I grew up in one of those “cheap” places: Knoxville,TN. The place had nothing going for it. A sort of dead downtown and loads of nasty sprawl. But it was comfortable on a day to day level. It still only take 15 minutes to be out in the sticks, and if you don’t mind driving 15-20 miles to work, you can have a pretty decent place for around 150-200k. Not that I would dearly love living there.

There are lots of places just like Knoxville out there. Places that are off the map and off the minds of most people my age. Many who I work with have only lived in major metros on the East and West coast and have little to no knowledge of the vast unknown interior of the country. I feel like I’m pretty flexible and can live just about anywhere.

Here’s the way I look at it. Right now I am at work. Its pretty late because I have a project due tommorow. I will the go home and sleep. On most regular days I get off at 5:00 and endure my hellacious commute, eat, watch TV, and go to sleep. On weekends, we either go somewhere or we do things like mow the lawn or clean the cars. general, pleasant stuff.

I can do those things anywhere. I am generally easy to please. So again, it begs to ask the question of whether I would be better off sticking around the most expensive metro in the country, where if I’m lucky, I might be able to squeeze into a home on our outrageous salaries by the time we’re in our mid to late thirties, only to be stuck with a monstrous payment and no hope for an early retirement or would it be better to take what we’ve saved and run, buy the stupid little boring house in the less than exciting smaller metro for cash and basically do the same things we do now? These are the questions that I ask myself all the time.

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-21 06:40:48

Ya know, if you don’t really like it there and your wife hates it, maybe you should move. Life is too short to hang around places you don’t want to live.

Maybe hang onto that secure job for the next year, be super frugal and build up a huge nest egg and then send one of you out to secure a job.

Once 1 of you has a job, close up shop in CA. Rent for a while in the new place (good idea anyway) and settle into a community. Just a thought..

 
 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-20 15:15:33

And if you have the wrong currency or barbarois relic, you get your head handed to you.

Strange how this is not mentioned.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-20 15:19:40

Waiter, there’s a fly in my ointment.

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Comment by ann gogh
2008-11-20 15:37:06

Lad, be nice.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:04:00

“Waiter, my KY jelly sandwich tastes funny.”

 
 
Comment by amoney
2008-11-20 19:40:46

Funny now that deflation seems to have us in its grips the cries about golds “failure” to maintain new highs become more widespread; when it was knocking out new highs the town criers were largely mute. I suspect most of the cries are due to a certain OCB’s signal strength, rather than the signal itself.

I think when checking the weather before a journey one needs to look at the satellite maps as well as look out the window. Neither should be ignored but to assume what’s outside the window is how its gonna be for the journey is foolish.

*OCB: obsessive compulsive blogger.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 14:25:16

Ben, I pulled this little nugget forward a thread. I hope the Californians don’t mind.

“When I was posting in early 2005, the worst percentage I could find in the country was small subdivisions in North Carolina at 1.5%. They’d had some builder doing a lot of subprime loans that went bad quickly. The Charlotte Observer reported that just at that level, prices were forced down.” (typed by Ben Jones)

That would be the Ardrey Wood development in South Charlotte. That was the work of Beazer Homes. And that was a very small development. I pulled it forward so it could be used as a standard by which California could measure its surging foreclosure activity.

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-20 14:41:58

Wonder how NC is doing these days. I recall looking perhaps a couple of weeks ago at housing prices in around Raleigh. Its pretty pricey.

Comment by In Colorado
2008-11-20 16:07:50

If you are willing to move out a little, my brother bought a new 3000 sq ft house in Fuquay earlier this year for 200K.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 16:24:05

My old house in North Carolina is for sale. It is ridiculously priced. I could send you some brochures. Our friends have their house in Chapel Hill on the market. When I tried to track it down there were 1,096 listings. North Carolina is just as screwed as the rest of the country. The overbuilding was amazing.

Comment by Doug in Boone, NC
2008-11-20 20:39:48

“North Carolina is just as screwed as the rest of the country.”

Except they won’t admit it, because the state is still in the denial stage. This from today’s Boone paper: “The Campbell survey (a Washington, DC-based marketing research firm) identified the three most resilient markets in the nation for selling homes: Texas, Washinton state, and North Carolina.”

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Comment by jbunniii
2008-11-20 15:02:42

Marin County

October 2007: $875k
October 2008: $599.75k
% Change: -31.5

“It’s God’s country, what can I say. When is the 30 percent decline in Marin County’s market going to happen? Not in my lifetime.” - Leslie Appleton-Young, chief economist for the California Association of Realtors, April 2007

Eat your words, strumpet!

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-20 15:14:22

(rose-bud)
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Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-20 17:25:44

Lad I love ya!

 
 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 18:56:40

Oh, I hadn’t heard the news! One of us really ought to send in an obit. SF Jack, would you do the honors, as our resident Marin expert and socialite?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:08:13

I still have nightmares from the days when I lived in Marin and worked just outside of San Francisco. That traffic was just awful. I liked Marin but holy $hit was it boring.

 
 
 
Comment by Jen Bones
2008-11-20 15:08:12

A MarketWatch excerpt from yesterday’s HBB:

“Faced with selling his house in a slow economy, George Tran … is giving away his house in Oregon to the most worthy family via the Internet….Tell him why they should receive the house and have the Internet decide…. The story with the highest number of votes will receive the house (or $100,000) as a Christmas present.”

I was up all night brainstorming my essay, but all I have so far is the first sentence: I was born a poor black child. Could someone here please help me finish it? If I win, you can be my roomie! Thanx.

Luv,
Jen

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-20 15:24:05

“and when WE… were growing up, we didn’t even have floors! You had to cling to the walls!” ( Monty Python )

Hope that helps with writer’s block Jen.

Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-20 18:08:12

‘It was a dark and stormy night’, there, do I win? hehehehehehe

 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-11-20 16:42:20

I’m not happy with my new lyrics to an old Dire Straits song.
Since we seem to be such straights, maybe someone can help me tweak this.

Here’s the Accompaniment, and here are the lyrics:

You get a shiver in the dark
Its been raining in the park but meantime
South of the bridge you stop and you hold everything
The gang is slapping NY-SE double four time
You feel up tight when you hear that death-bell ring

You step inside but you don’t see too many faces
Coming in out of the pain to watch the stocks go down
Too much competition too many other places
But not too many horns can make that sound
Way on downsouth; way on downsouth hymie town

You check out Heli Ben he pulls all the cords
Mind he’s strictly rhythm he doesn’t want to make it fly or sing
And an old bazaar is all he can afford
When he gets out under the lights to say his thing

And Hanky doesn’t mind if he doesn’t save the scene
He’s got a daytime job he’s doing alright
He can play money wonk just like anything
Saving it up for Friday night
With bazookas; with bazookas of bling

And then the man he steps right up to the microphone
And says at last just as the time bell rings
thank you goodnight now its time to go home
And he makes it fast with one more thing
we shoot bazookas, we shoot bazookas of bling.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-11-20 16:43:36

Oops, the link didn’t take, here is straight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB3b1W6rEDw

 
 
Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2008-11-20 17:56:25

Jen is back. Oh the jocularity.

 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 19:02:02

“Was born a poor black child …”

” …with a corrupt sense of humor. But, through hard work, determination, and a willfully good attitude, became a successful internet comic. Known from such blogs as the HBB, where I have spread joy and levity to people fraught with frustration and impatience. I have helped to change the world, but not just for me, not just for the internet, but every poor black child. And cat.”

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2008-11-20 21:51:49

….”and I now know the difference between $*!& and Shinola.”

Can’t help you with the middle but a heck of an ending. :D

 
 
Comment by takingbets
2008-11-20 15:13:02

Fannie Mae to Suspend Foreclosures Until January 2009………

In order to support the streamlined modification program announced on November 11, 2008, Fannie Mae (NYSE: FNM) today issued a notice to its loan servicing organizations and retained foreclosure attorneys directing them to suspend foreclosure sales on occupied single-family properties as well as the completion of evictions from occupied single-family properties scheduled to occur from November 26, 2008 until January 9, 2009.

The temporary suspension of foreclosures is designed to allow affected borrowers facing foreclosure to retain their homes while Fannie Mae works with mortgage servicers to implement the streamlined modification program scheduled to launch December 15. Foreclosure attorneys and loan servicers will be instructed to use the additional time to reach out to borrowers who have defaulted on their loans and continue to pursue workout options. The initiative applies to loans owned or securitized by Fannie Mae.

All this will do is delay the un-avoidable!!!!!

Comment by Frank Giovinazzi
2008-11-20 16:08:20

All this will do is delay the un-avoidable!!!!!

Yes, and it’s keeping prices in my [NY] area from adjusting, and thus, has a [gov't. imposed] stranglehold on the economy.

There are plenty of people out there ready willing and able to buy homes at 3x income — but the gov’t is allowing lying, felonious deadbeats to stay in these perfectly good homes that could be occupied by perfectly good people at perfectly reasonable prices.

Comment by climber
2008-11-20 17:23:37

Japan got 18 years out of their slump. That’s going to be a tough one to match, but it looks like we’ve got the leadership we need to make a go at it.

Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 19:04:51

No way! Look how fast things are progressing. This is not Japan, and never will be. You’d have just about as much luck trying to control the markets in the US as you would trying to control the weather. The more you try, the more you phuhk it up. The clouds were seeded and oh my.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:13:10

They are trying to herd cats and it just won’t work. Those little f—ers are far too slippery. Let me tell you, I should know. I’ve tried.

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2008-11-20 21:42:16

Based on what you wrote above I think the cats sense your plans for them and quite intelligently use every trick at their disposal to avoid you.

I have no problem herding cats as they adore me and know they will not be walking funny the night after I go on a bender.

Nor do I dress them in funny outfits although I suspect there are others here who do participate in that form of animal cruelty.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Curt
2008-11-20 19:56:20

Are there no prisons?

Are there no poor houses?

Comment by DennisN
2008-11-21 01:03:48

And if they must die, why don’t they die now and decrease the surplus population?

 
 
 
Comment by beelzebubble
2008-11-20 15:28:49

Looks like there are indications of increasing sales volume and an acceleration of price declines in California (for October). The begininings of capitulation, perhaps?

Comment by Lesser Fool
2008-11-20 16:33:19

There are still pockets in the Bay Area which appear to be totally disconnected from this bubble. In Los Altos, a 3BR average house (slab concrete foundation) on a 13,000 sqft lot went on sale for an asking 1.4 mill a week or two ago. They were taking offers last Monday. My friend had an interest in making an offer and was thinking of offering 1.45M but was discouraged by the agent who said he needs to offer at least 100k more as they already had 4 firm offers with 3 others expected by the end of the day (this was on Monday morning). My friend had actually bumped into a mutual acquaintance at a party who, it turned out, was one of the 4 firm offers. The woman had told my friend that she was planning to tear the whole place down and rebuild, and that her total house budget was 3.5M.

Who are these people who have this kind of money sitting around and don’t already have a house or two to sell? Where is this money coming from? Or maybe she just threw out the 3.5M number to discourage my friend from making an offer.

I pestered my friend to sell his Menlo Park house about a year ago (he got a nice profit) and they’ve been renting ever since but are getting a bit frustrated now (especially the wife). Given the action in the Los Altos / Palo Alto area I’m not surprised that they feel this way. We ourselves are renting in Los Altos and would love to buy in, but could barely afford a garage there at current prices.

One argument being made in support of these oases of value is that since all other areas are declining in the quality of public schools, everybody who has money in those areas is flocking to the few places in the BA that have decent schools, thus keeping prices propped up.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-11-20 18:55:24

“everybody who has money in those areas is flocking to the few places in the BA that have decent schools, …”

It would be cheaper to rent, and send the kids to private school. Around here at least, there are excellent private schools in crappy industrial neighborhoods (with guards, fences, and double gates, of course).

 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 19:08:19

What ARE you talking about? Menlo Park is down 12% per square foot from last year.

Are you a troll or what?

If buying costs you more than renting over your lifetime, then just rent. What’s with the frustration? You’re a rich renter. Enjoy yourself!

Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-20 19:52:32

I work in Palo Alto and rent in the East Bay. I don’t get the Peninsula at all. Small little houses that were built in 1945 with 2 bedrooms with 900k asking prices. As mentioned above- the things still miraculously sell. Again- I personally don’t get the allure of the area. Nothing particularly wonderful or beautiful about it. I live in Alameda, and to me its probably one of the nicer towns on the BA. But houses are half the price there. Not to say that its cheap ( I ain’t buying a 550k “Starter home”. But still- 900k for a small house?

I too wonder where in the hell these people get this kind of money. Its not like me and my Wife don’t make good money. We’re pushing close to a dual-six figure income. But that comes nowhere close to buying a home in the area that we work. Rent is nuts too.

Parents are super-obsessed with schools too. I’m glad we don’t have kids. I don’t like the idea of getting my kid into a “good” school by competing in a hand-to-hand combat with other parents to get in.

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Comment by cactus
2008-11-20 20:13:38

“Who are these people who have this kind of money sitting around and don’t already have a house or two to sell? ”

Well if its been sitting around in the stock market they should go count it before they offer to buy over priced RE

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:19:41

“We ourselves are renting in Los Altos and would love to buy in, but could barely afford a garage there at current prices.”

You want to “buy in” and you call yourself the “Lesser Fool”? I would hate to see what your brother, the Greater Fool is doing right now. He must be the one with his wang hanging in the garbage disposal, while desperately trying to find the power switch. “This should feel great,” he says.

The Fool Family still does not understand the magnitude of this economic earthquake. GOOG hit $259 today. Let’s see how the coming depression treats Silicon Valley. They can commiserate with Westchester residents around 2011.

 
 
 
Comment by seattlepricedrop
2008-11-20 16:15:34

Test

 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 17:47:19

All I have to say is “Ha, ha!”.

 
Comment by SV_renter
2008-11-20 18:00:40

Well, I haven’t seen any 345k houses around here. They must be all inland. My neighborhood is down 10-15% to a median of over 700k still and they are even crazier in the more “high end” areas one of the relatively less expensive areas of Silicon Valley. Just for kicks, we went to look at some new houses a few weekends ago and they are 1,200,000 for these, admittedly huge, McManion things. But, then, two streets over people are trying to sell exactly the same thing, 3-4 years old for 1,300,000 or more? Anyway, who can afford that? Where are all these people getting the money. Does not compute.The median *family* income in this area is around 100k.Even if *both* people were to make that much, they still shouldn’t be able to afford these houses!

 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 18:36:01

There are people who I wish would retire, but now they won’t because they were relying on their retirement “savings”.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:21:45

What does that matter? Do what I did. Sleep your way to middle management.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 18:44:58

I overheard someone at work today saying “It’s a great time to buy”.

Comment by sm_landlord
2008-11-20 18:51:37

When you stop hearing that, start buying.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:23:04

When you stop hearing that, go get your ears checked. You will be so old that your hearing is going. There are a lot of f—ing idiots in this world. If you are waiting for common sense to become common, you will be waiting a long, long time.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2008-11-20 19:10:27

Even more shocking, I overheard someone giving me credit for my work. I almost fell out of my chair.

 
Comment by jbunniii
2008-11-20 19:43:55

One of my co-workers today was advocating that it’s a great time to buy into an S&P500 index fund. He is the same co-worker who in July bought a financial sector ETF (”an incredible bargain!”) which is down more than 50% since then. I recall him telling me one year ago that house prices in Silicon Valley could never actually go down.

Multiply this guy by a few hundred thousand, and that is the Silicon Valley work force.

By simply renting and staying out of the stock market since February, I figure my net worth has outperformed his by at least 25% this year, risk-free.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:26:55

Tomorrow, walk in to work, call him a “stupid loser” and give him a good shot to the nuts. I don’t care what anybody says, adding injury to insult is one of life’s greatest pleasures.

Comment by Next Shoe to Drop
2008-11-20 20:38:26

“Tomorrow, walk in to work, call him a “stupid loser” and give him a good shot to the nuts. I don’t care what anybody says, adding injury to insult is one of life’s greatest pleasures.”

The quick shot to the nuts also ensures your co-worker doesn’t repeat the same mistake twice and piss the rest of us off again. It’s a win-win!!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2008-11-20 19:16:38

Since this is the California thread, and I like to think out loud:

I was out driving today, and that one of the few situations where I get to be alone with my thoughts (although that’s not necessarily a good idea under the circumstances). But anyway, here’s what came to me.

Remember back in the 60’s, 70’s, 80’s and 90’s when Palmcaster was always about to be the next big thing? OK, so it went from being a barren desert, to a sparsely populated barren desert, to a remote suburb, to a disaster, to a recovering suburb with a few nicer areas, to a gang-infested suburban wilderness with a few nicer strongholds, to a wipeout.

So my thought was: How many more Palmcaster Disasters did we just manufacture in places like the IE, BK (Bakersfield), Sacto, etc.?

Maybe this is just too obvious since we all saw it coming, but now it’s becoming very very real. I’ve lost count of all the potential nightmares, but I’m planning to short methamphetamine futures due to likely oversupply.

Anyway, that’s my happy thought for the day.

Comment by peter m
2008-11-20 22:19:08

“so it went from being a barren desert, to a sparsely populated barren desert, to a remote suburb, to a disaster, to a recovering suburb with a few nicer areas, to a gang-infested suburban wilderness with a few nicer strongholds, to a wipeout.”

Palmcaster has gone boom and bust at least twice since it sprouted out of the desert. All i know is property is dirt cheap out there now but you need to be a survivalist nutcase or a desert storm vet to survive/thrive out there.

Maybe a property at under $30,000 might,might entice me. Just a 1 acre sagebrush flat with a plain dumpy trailer. Room to shoot off my guns and let my doggie roam.

Comment by rms
2008-11-21 00:04:45

“Palmcaster has gone boom and bust at least twice since it sprouted out of the desert.”

I know a family who was upside-down in Lancaster for twelve years after the Berlin Wall fell. It was the longest twelve years of their lives as the section-8 rentals sprouted everywhere, and crime increased. They left California, for good, when they were able to sell.

 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-11-20 19:28:20

“Pretorius said he feels violated and powerless. His buyer has walked away, and now he has to spend thousands of dollars on repairs. ‘I can’t believe they called this a civil matter,’ he said. ‘If stealing a house from an 89-year-old woman isn’t a crime, I don’t know what is.’”

This story sounds fishy. If he or his mother legally own the house, isn’t he within his legal right to kick in the door and stroll through the house with a shotgun?

Not that I’m advocating that, mind you. But it is rather mind-blowing that squatters have to be asked nicely to leave. They’re _TRESPASSING_.

Comment by Wickedheart
2008-11-20 20:43:12

In Cali tenants, even non paying squatters have all sorts of legal rights.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2008-11-20 19:35:29

from safehaven

Here is what Richard Russell (Dow Theory Letters) - one of the few market commentators with first-hand experience of the Great Depression - has to say: “The market is warning of a coming depression. Next year there’ll be a huge problem of unemployment, job openings will have disappeared, and every business will be going over its personal thinking in terms of who the business can do without.

“The sentiment in the country will be dark grey to jet black. Fortunes will have been wiped out. Thousands of savings plans and 401Ks will have been shattered. Americans who have never experienced true hard times will be living hard times. Confusion and fear will be rampant. How do I know all this? I’ve been here before, I know the signs.”

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:30:11

NYCityBoy’s personal assets:
1) No debt
2) A few bucks in the bank (not much)
3) Mobility to seek opportunities elsewhere
4) The ability to take a pay cut

All of the paycheck-to-paycheck crowd is seriously screwed. They might have mobility but that will be more like flight than mobility.

 
Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-20 23:00:18

Well, I’ll tell you one thing. For YEARS I was like: ” Let this damned thing come crashing down! I want home prices to be cheaper, and if it takes a recession to do so… then so be it!”

Well… perhaps that was a little too much in the wishful thinking category. It looks like things could get…. oooogly. As in more than a recession. Perhaps more along the lines of a depression.

Either way, I consider myself lucky. No debt. Mostly cash. A job that just got funding for at least a year, an employed Wife who also has lots of savings, and again- a backup plan to jettison “to the sticks” if we have to.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2008-11-20 20:05:36

from Bloomberg

Buying Treasuries

Future action by the central bank might include “aggressively buying long-term Treasury issues,” Gramley, now a Washington-based senior economic adviser for Stanford Group Co., said in a Bloomberg Television interview.

Michael Feroli, a JPMorgan Chase & Co. economist who used to work at the Fed, said the central bank could also purchase the debt of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage-finance companies seized by the government in September.

“Before ramping up” such programs, the Fed might “first communicate to the markets that the nature of the current economic woes should keep rates low for an extended period,” Feroli wrote in a note yesterday.

The Fed’s balance sheet has already doubled to almost $2 trillion as officials introduced programs to inject liquidity into the economy.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-20 20:42:08

Am I the only one that thinks this sounds like a scam that has no business being legal? I really hate that little Bernanke fellow, that Geithner fellow and all of the puppetmasters that are pulling their strings.

 
 
Comment by The Housing Wizard
2008-11-20 20:39:33

I have watched for years now ,waiting for this moment in time when
Main Street decides to take their remaining marbles and get out of the game .
Maybe it had to do with all the talk by Auto CEO’s talking about how bad the market is ,but people are getting truly scared now . Maybe it was Hank Paulson’s talk in Simi Valley today that set the market off .
Maybe it was Citi laying off 50 thousand employees . Buffet losing money might be unnerving for some .
Wall Street/Government and all the players need a lesson in what happens when
betrayal of trust kills everything . The Government made a choice to
help their lobbyist ,without regard to punishment ,so this is what
happens . While some bail-outs might of been necessary ,the rule of law has been absent in all this de-leveraging and Contract law has been thrown under the bus .
Anyway , what does Wall Street expect out of people when they see a
open disregard for Justice . Main Street is not happy right now and
Wall Street is stunned .

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-20 23:28:34

‘It was a dark and stormy night’. Do I win the prize, do I, do I ?

Comment by The Housing Wizard
2008-11-21 08:01:21

LOL …

 
 
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