November 21, 2008

A Disaster For The Ages

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “The price of a detached house in this upscale community fell 22 percent in October from a year earlier, helping to drag the average residential price in Canada down by 9.9 percent, the biggest decline in 26 years. West Vancouver builder Sean Hanley thought Canada’s real estate market would be immune to the housing recession. Hanley has cut his asking price to C$3.99 million ($3.26 million) and is now offering a C$100,000 bonus, on top of regular fees, to the agent who delivers a buyer. He’s starting to think it may be easier to rent the place. ‘The only other option is to reduce my asking price by C$600,000 to C$700,000 to where I’d be virtually giving the place away,’ Hanley said. ‘I’m not about to do that.”’

“Hard-working Tennesseans were lied to and tricked into signing home loans they couldn’t afford. James Slate of Greenbrier is just one homeowner who said mortgage companies ripped him off. ‘I had been taken advantage of. I know it. There’s no doubt about it,’ Slate said.”

“Jimmy and Joyce Slate of Greenbrier said they’ll never pay off their home loan. They claim their mortgage company added a $25,000 penalty to their loan then demanded payment. Slate recalled one conversation with the lender. ‘He said, ‘Well it’s got to be paid. And I said, ‘Well, what if I can’t pay it?’ He said, ‘We’ll take your damn house,’ Slate said.”

“‘Lo and behold I found they stole my house. They lied to me there’s now other way to say it. They just lied,’ said Alyce Simmons of Nashville. As housing prices soared, she decided to refinance to get money for repairs. But she was stunned to discover her monthly mortgage payment was $500 higher than she was promised.”

“Why didn’t Simmons see the actual monthly payment when she closed the loan? She said the notary who came to her house to get her to sign the papers had her sign blank pages and didn’t give her a copy of what she signed. Simmons demonstrated how the notary quickly rushed her through the stack of papers. ‘He would come through and say, ‘Sign here, initial here, sign here,’Simmons said. ‘They were going to take my house. We were going to be homeless.’”

“A review of Jing Hua Wu’s investments by the Mercury News — he owns 17 properties in three states — indicates that in the months before the killings, the housing bubble burst and many of Wu’s once-promising real estate investments tanked. While he looked prosperous on paper, with properties in California, Arkansas and Washington, several are worth less than he paid for them. And records also indicate that he also is tapping heavily into the equity in his Mountain View home.”

“Wu owes more than the current value of two houses he bought before the crash in an affluent gated retirement community in Hot Springs, Ark., according to Realtor Keitha Turner. Both houses in Hot Springs Village are now worth less than when he bought them in 2000 and 2005. ‘If you could even find a buyer, with so many houses in the Village for sale,’ Turner said, ‘his would probably go for $10,000 to $20,000 less than he paid.”’

“Wu invested in two houses in comfortable suburban neighborhoods of Vancouver, Wash. in 2005 and 2007 — near the top of the then-booming market, said Vancouver Realtor Lisa Costa. At the time, property in the city was appreciating rapidly, with equity in some locations ranging from 10 to 25 percent. But when the bubble burst, Wu was caught holding the properties. ”

“‘I’m sure when he bought it, he thought he was going to make money,’ Costa said, ‘but the market shifted virtually overnight.’”

“Government officials and housing organizations in Georgia will have $153 million to spend under the Neighborhood Stabilization Program. Even supporters concede the money will have little impact against a vast metro Atlanta real estate market in decline. DeKalb County CEO Vernon Jones, whose county gets the largest allotment, readily admits it could go horribly wrong. ‘The restrictions that come along with it … you can tell it wasn’t well thought out,’ Jones said. ‘It’s not going to have the impact it should. It came from a bunch of bureaucrats trying to score political points.’”

“When Jones heard the federal government would make cash available to fight the foreclosure crisis, he said he rushed to Washington to attend a briefing. He left disappointed when he saw there was a huge disconnect between the program’s intent and how he thought it would work on the street. ‘They just left the stakeholders out of the room,’ he said. ‘They didn’t talk to anybody. They were just flying by the seat of their pants.’”

“Atlanta Councilman Howard Shook said what little he’s learned makes him wonder whether it won’t be a spectacular failure. ‘For a government that struggles to provide meat-and-potato services,’ Shook said, ‘I’ve got a hard time seeing this as anything other than a disaster for the ages.’”

“A new wave of foreclosures may be on the horizon as unfavorable adjustable rate mortgages taken out in 2005 and 2006 start hitting home, according to those who work with people who have become overextended financially. ‘It is getting worse,’ said Celeste Collins, executive director of OnTrack Financial Education and Counseling in Asheville, which works with residents in 18 mountain counties. ‘With our mortgage default counseling, if you compare all of 2007 with where we are right now — January through October — we have seen 53 percent more people than in all of 2007.’”

“Chants of ‘Wake up, Secretary Paulson’ filled Pennsylvania Avenue Tuesday morning as a crowd of 200 — including three New Bedford residents — prayed outside the Department of the Treasury. Daniel Lesser, organizer for United Interfaith Action, said foreclosures are ‘racking New Bedford.’”

“‘We see the abandoned houses everywhere,’ he said.”

“Eight townhouses built in part with a city of Medford grant meant to promote home ownership among low-income residents will be turned into rentals after the nonprofit organization that built the houses at 11th and Grape streets was unable to find qualified buyers. Construction began in late 2006 and didn’t finish until spring 2008, said John Wheeler, Rogue Valley Community Development Corporation’ co-director.”

“President Floyd Bawlowski said RVCDC screened more than 100 applicants. The handful that qualified ended up balking on the purchase after finding more attractive accommodations when the housing market began to slip, or in some cases, they made vehicle purchases that disqualified them for the credit, Wheeler said.”

“‘We were marketing before construction in hopes of having buyers lined up before the houses were built,’ Wheeler recounted. ‘We got the loan together. We couldn’t find homeowners before construction, but the director at the time was confident they would come along, so the project began. Then, the market took a nosedive, and those buyers never materialized even though we continued to recruit home buyers.’”

“When Focus Property Group gathered eight homebuilders and purchased 1,710 acres of government land at the base of Kyle Canyon in 2005, it promised to extend Las Vegas still farther into the desert. This project, approved by Las Vegas for as many as 16,000 homes, was called Kyle Canyon Gateway. But that was then. Without a single home being built, the property has been foreclosed on by its lender, Wachovia Bank, said John Ritter, CEO of Focus Property Group.”

“‘Ritter said he has no problems speaking candidly about the marketplace, unlike those who find positive spins. ‘To a certain extent, that is how we got into this mess,’ Ritter said. ‘We all just encouraged each other to go farther out on a limb and take more leverage. I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and I am hoping it is not a locomotive coming. But ultimately in Vegas the good news is there is very limited supply, and when things turn round here, values are going to increase relatively quickly. I think the market has the capacity to become very strong again.’”

“He warned: ‘When we come out of this thing, we need to be more conservative. We need to use less leverage if any leverage at all. It is going to be long time before banks jump back in the lending game for land and land developers, and even to a large extent the builders.’”

“Did you see Merrill Lynch Economist David Rosenberg’s comments yesterday that the country should consider putting a moratorium on new home building? Apparently he made the remarks half jokingly, arguing that we need to curtail supply to put a floor under the market and stop prices from falling. Maybe we should stop producing cars and computers, too. That would certainly help prevent prices of those items from declining.”

“Let’s face it–we live in a consumption economy and homes, new or existing, are a big part of that equation. What about the home building industry’s comtribution to the national economy? The other problem with this argument is that supply conditions vary throughout the country and even within metro areas. People may not want to live in the places where there’s an excess supply. Are we going to force people to move to Phoenix, Florida, the Inland Empire, and Las Vegas?”

“Colorado Attorney General John Suthers today said he has reached settlements with three mortgage companies as part of a crackdown on false advertising that he launched about two years ago. Each of the three companies ran ads advertising low teaser rates and/or low minimum monthly payments associated with option ARM loans.”

“The Attorney General has also reached a settlement with Sacramento, California-based mortgage broker Tri-Point Realty, which he said sent letters to Colorado homeowners that appeared to be from a homeowner’s bank. The letters urged the homeowner to refinance to take advantage of his home’s increased value. Tri-Point, however, had no affiliation with the lender and did not conduct any research to determine if the home had actually increased in value.”

“Department of Housing and Urban Development Secretary Steve Preston recently announced what he said was a ‘mammoth leap forward for the consumer.’ So what does this mammoth leap entail? It’s an overhaul of the good-faith estimate used during the mortgage lending process. ‘Consumers need and deserve to know what they’re getting themselves into before they sign on the dotted line,’ Preston said during a teleconference.”

“To this so-called big announcement, I say big whoop-de-do. So now we get ‘reform,’ after people have bought homes they couldn’t afford with exotic loans that should never have been sold to them. Now we have so-called major reform, when lending standards are so high and credit so tight it’s hard to close on a loan anyway.”

“For me, mammoth reform would include legislation that imposed new bone-chilling cash penalties and prison sentences for anyone who deceives consumers during the mortgage process. Mammoth would be creating a commando-type enforcement division at HUD. Mortgage professionals should be as afraid of HUD as many people are of the IRS. Mammoth would be creating a new worksheet as part of the application process that would look at all monthly expenses of a potential borrower. Preapproved applicants would have to list regular monthly living expenses to see if the loan would take up more than 38 percent of the family’s monthly net income.”

“The new standardized good-faith estimate is just a start to the overhaul needed in how loans are sold.”

“The Newton Grove 100 Committee held its annual banquet recently. The highlight of the night was a speech by Jeff Etheridge of BB&T bank. He has spent the last 37 years in the banking industry. He discussed several other types of loans made by banking institutions that increase in risk as you go. The one that brought the loan industry to its knees earlier this year is a ‘pick and pay’ loan where you pick a payment. This was started by a company called Golden West Corp. ‘Lets take that same $500,000 house with the same $5000 a month payment. But, you are only paying $1000 per month. That means you are going in the hole $4000 a month. At the end of a year your $500,000 obligation is $548,000, two years it is $596,000 and at the end of three years, it is $644,000 because you didn’t pay what it was worth.’”

“‘What was happening is that investment firms were buying these packages but nobody was looking at what they were buying. They would buy at 10 a.m., sell it at 10:05 a.m. with a small margin and buy some more. This wasn’t just nationally; it was global. It was going on all around the world. The problem is nobody was looking at where these loans were or where are the houses, what is the ability to pay? Everything hinged on how much return (margin) the seller wanted. The higher the margin, the higher the risk.’”

“All these were intended to make it easier to own a house. ‘Everybody knew that housing prices were going to go up, your salary would go up and you could make the payments. But, it was an absolute farce.’”

“A former Federal Reserve governor speaking to a group of certified public accountants Thursday was critical of the actions taken by former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan. Wayne Angell, a Kansas native who served on the Federal Reserve Board from 1986 to 1994, said Greenspan played a role in creating the housing bubble through monetary policy. He said the Fed’s move to bring the Federal Funds Rate to 1 percent in 2003 and keep it there until mid-2004 precipitated the housing bubble because there was no house price deflation.”

“‘One of the first conversations I had with Alan Greenspan was the Hippocratic Oath and the mantra to do no harm,’ said Angell, who is also a former chief economist at Bear Stearns. ‘But harm he did.’”




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97 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-21 15:00:29

Another great week! My thanks to those who support this blog. Please check back this weekend.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 15:09:23

“A review of Jing Hua Wu’s investments by the Mercury News — he owns 17 properties in three states — indicates that in the months before the killings, the housing bubble burst and many of Wu’s once-promising real estate investments tanked. While he looked prosperous on paper, with properties in California, Arkansas and Washington, several are worth less than he paid for them. And records also indicate that he also is tapping heavily into the equity in his Mountain View home.”
==============================================================

How many other Wu’s are out there, guns at the ready because things didn’t go their way?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 15:19:49

Many, many, many.

We may disagree on gold but there are going to be very many frustrated people out to wreak vengeance.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-21 15:54:15

Ha! Why just go out and tell these gun owners you are there to confiscate their property. I’m sure they’ll comply! And when your neighbor sticks a gun in your face, you can throw some gold coins at him.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 15:59:24

I’ll just sit here and have a beer if it’s all the same by you. ;-)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-21 16:12:51

‘I’ll just sit here and have a beer if it’s all the same by you.’

Yeah, me too. (Hiccup.)
Hey, Ben, why don’t you tell us all about YOUR guns? II feel like I don’t know nowhere near enough about you, and your childhood pets, and your favorite color, and your guns.
*settles in and looks expectant*

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-11-21 16:24:37

We could be experiencing a very different phenomenon than we did with dot.com daytraders?

Back then, a lot of reformed daytraders wore their mistakes like a badge of courage. “Yeah, I had my account up to 750K but when ____ was no longer marginable I blew it all up. You buyin’ the next round?”

Maybe it’s early yet but I don’t hear that casual tone coming from anyone other than Casey Serin? I happen to believe everyone took and is taking this VERY seriously. There have been 4 or 5 suicides over this in Bend alone. You can beg to differ if you please but this feels like a totally different animal.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-11-21 16:44:46

Yeah, Ben, how about it? Are you a shooter or not? And can I invite you out to the range if you should happen to visit Tucson?

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 16:46:15

LOL, yes. Shooter or dribbler?

This is not a p0rn movie, my good person!

 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-11-21 18:08:43

“Shooter or dribbler?”

That depends on whether or not I have a midget paddling my a$$. If that midget gets the timing right, it’s “to the moon, Alice!”

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 18:17:44

ROTFLMAO

I’ll bring my opera glasses. ;-)

 
Comment by Isabel
2008-11-21 19:55:32

“Yeah, Ben, how about it? Are you a shooter or not? And can I invite you out to the range if you should happen to visit Tucson?”
ArizonaSlim, I am a shooter. I will be camping at the Desert Midwinter pretty much all week after President’s Day in Feb. It is at the Phoenix Rod and Gun. Are you going to come on up and let me buy you a cup of coffee? Kate

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2008-11-21 16:35:50

“How many other Wu’s are out there, guns at the ready because things didn’t go their way?”

There it is again.

I really think you need to stop being around L.A. if you believe this. Every time I leave south Florida I am reminded that most of the nation is simply not crazy (L.A. & NYC excepted.)

I’m serious, man. This is why I left NYC after 9/11; I thought every day might be my last. It’s not a good way to live.

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Comment by DinOR
2008-11-21 16:52:42

Muggy,

That very attitude is why I seldom if ever post on Patrick.net any more. One ( otherwise intelligent ) poster kept on… insisting that “armed bands of disgruntled ( and ignorant ) battle hardened Iraq veterans will be roaming the streets..”

And this of course complete societal breakdown is why he is hoarding GOLD! Like yourself, why subject yourself to that willingly?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 16:59:59

Littleton, Colorado ring a bell?

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-21 21:57:06

Reminds me - I need to buy some more ammo for my side arms and rifles as well as double O buck for my shot guns. With double O they can’t trace it . hehehehehehee

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 17:05:58

Ben,

I’m not anti-gun, just handguns.

They serve no purpose in a polite society, other than to allow us to hurt one-another.

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Comment by DennisN
2008-11-21 17:55:08

Well I carry one hiking since a long gun is too heavy and bulky. It’s highly unlikely a cougar would take a shine to me but it has been known to happen. There are a lot of wild animals in the mountains of Idaho. My revolver weighs only 15 oz. unloaded.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 18:02:47

Certainly there are exceptions as i’d be carrying in Griz country, if I was backpacking-but never ever would I bother here with Black Bears, of which i’ve encountered perhaps 600 of, over the years…

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 18:27:21

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 18:33:27

Juvenal delinquents?

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 18:34:40

You too win the prize!

Free paddling with midgets so you can be a shooter not a dribbler. ;-)

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 18:42:18

Gnomenclature?

 
Comment by Ernst Blofeld
2008-11-21 23:49:35

Some people need shootin’.

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-22 07:28:15

They serve no purpose in a polite society, other than to allow us to hurt one-another.

For the record, I actually own no guns because I’m too damn cheap to buy the things or the bullets. This next summer’s project maybe to see if I can load and shot a gun without killing myself.

My problem with ald’s is about “polite” society bit of the reason. I’ve felt for a long time that gun control had turned a class argument. “Red necks” own guns and they are willing to wear them on their person. And the upper classes don’t and don’t understand the attraction. Therefore if we get rid of the guns, we somehow make the “red necks” more like the upper classes and we’ll all start watching PBS and enjoying modern art and the world’s problems will be solved. :)

(By the way, the primary ownership of guns is a complete flip of Europe, where only the military and upper classes could own, could afford to own, or had a use for guns.)

For lots of reasons, the US has a large population interested in owning and using guns. Personally, I’d rather have a legal system of people getting background checks and permits and having at least some idea who’s got them rather than turn into a complete free for all because people will still carry guns, regardless of their legal status.

 
Comment by Joelawyer
2008-11-22 07:42:33

Too bad we don’t have a polite society. Any other items on your wish list?

 
 
Comment by Otis Wildflower
2008-11-25 07:35:53

In all seriousness, any recommendations on a ’starter’ AR that I could pick up in the next few weeks? I’m looking at the DPMS Sportical, and various chats and fora on the internets seem to say it’s pretty good for the (low) price..

Better to have and not need than need and not have…

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-21 15:15:27

“Did you see Merrill Lynch Economist David Rosenberg’s comments yesterday that the country should consider putting a moratorium on new home building? Apparently he made the remarks half jokingly…’

That IS a funny joke. I just love funny jokes. And here’s an equally comical thought–let’s just kill all the builders right away and see if that helps. Nip the problem right in the bud, so to speak. Hahahahah..haha…ha…?
Oh, come ON. Jeeze. Relax! It couldn’t hurt to at least TRY it, right? It’s not like it could hurt; unless, of course, we were to use Cuisinarts or something.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 15:28:46

Relax! Here, have a potato.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-21 15:49:16

Oh, why thank you! :)

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 16:10:42

I’ve been in a strangely unargumentative funk lately.

A sorta, float-down-the-Hudson, tra-LA-la-la-la sorta way not in a depressive way.

Maybe it’s wisdom, or maybe it’s a hangover. Who can tell the difference anyway?

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-21 16:29:40

Maybe it’s wisdom, or maybe it’s a hangover. Who can tell the difference anyway?

Me. I can. Wisdom hurts more.
You know what? You are experiencing what we knowledgeable country-lasses call ‘ennui’. Spurn it! Spurn it, man! That’s there’s French, and nothing good ever came from there! Except for food and cheese and stuff!
If you was here I’d smack your ennui-laden city-boy face* and tell you snap out of it. Then we’d see some ‘wisdom’, Mr. Ennui, or else we’d see who can run around the forest faster while trying not to laugh loudly and give away location, until someone fell off the bluff or got lost.

Oh, that reminds me, last year in summer someone wanted to play paint-gun out here in the forest. I was patient, and they went to some effort to arrange the paint-gun war thing, renting paint-guns and stuff that beeped when you looked at the target, and it took all this fitting out and standing around and beeping, which was okay. So in a bit I rose out of the swordferns all majestic-like and flung the plastic paint-gun end over end like a whirling scimitar and bonked him right on the noggin while he was standing there beeping and then I said, ‘Look! I won! Awright!’ Then I walked away out of the ferns, my bum wagging sassily, and went inside and drank some beer or something. Well, what? I DID won. That’s what the ‘bonk’ meant. Paint, schmaint.

*Lightly, lightly. Don’t want to damage anything. More of a pat, really. Like a vitamin for ennui.

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-11-21 16:14:28

Olympiagal,

Further signs of -complete- disconnect weren’t far behind as the author draws parallels to cars and computers. Saying that the auto mfrs. are getting all this attention, where’s ‘their’ love?

Uh gee dude, how about the hastily ( and not very well thought out ) First Time Buyer’s Credit? Heard of that one?

I think it’s just more signs of an interest group that’s had their way for soooo long, they’ve forgotten what a real competitive environment looks like?

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 16:35:38

Incidentally, I heard you extolling the virtues of potato chips but I didn’t hear you singing the songs of praise of rosemary fries.

Seriously, I am thinking of banning the entrance to my house of anyone who hasn’t had them. Or else, they may come in but they have to sit cross-legged at the entrance and eat the fries I made WITHOUT the pleasure of the alcohol that the rest of us are enjoying.

The monumental ignorance, I tell you, madre de dios, it’s like fighting against Lereah and Greenspan combined.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-21 16:55:13

LOL! Who was it the other day that said “fight delusional fire with delusional fire”?

Even keeping in mind Ben’s link was from a trade publication doesn’t excuse the vacation from reality entirely.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 17:07:45

Are you having a Lereah moment?

If so, self-evisceration has been shown to be “most healing”.

 
Comment by DinOR
2008-11-21 17:16:21

Well… well, now that you ‘mention’ it!

If I were being truthful, no matter how much we might try otherwise, there’s always a phrase or quote in any one of Ben’s articles that I/we just can’t let go of?

For Rosenberg to imply a moratorium on building ‘might’ not be a bad idea to be met w/ that level of knee-jerk rejection was ‘it’ for me.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-21 17:52:37

WHERE is my post?!

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 18:19:14

WHERE is my post?!

It’ll be here soon enough once young Benjamin releases it.

The sp*m filter thinks that you are Lereah.

Be scared; be very very scared.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-21 19:17:36

FPSS,

I will be more than happy to try your rosemary fries. I have become addicted to the sweet potato fries and sweet potato chips.

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Comment by oskar
2008-11-21 19:48:14

Are the fries made from yukon gold potatoes? If so, you are right on the money. Not a money shot, but right on target, as in shooting target. Shooting, as in getting paddled by a midget. You know what I mean.

 
 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-21 22:14:56

How about Greenie’s idiot wife, Mitchell, at NBC. She had a face lift and when the little children still scream and run, well you know the rest. They are made for each other. hehehehehehe

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Comment by az_lender
2008-11-22 06:27:32

Boyce Thompson, the blogger who decries David Rosenberg’s proposal, needs to be made aware that lots of us believe the oversupply of housing came about because speculative “investment” in houses raised prices to a point where outlandish profits were the norm. I hope some of you will follow Ben’s link (”did you see”) and post comments over there. Mine was too polite.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 15:20:56

All the preyed upon have left are prayers…

“Chants of ‘Wake up, Secretary Paulson’ filled Pennsylvania Avenue Tuesday morning as a crowd of 200 — including three New Bedford residents — prayed outside the Department of the Treasury. Daniel Lesser, organizer for United Interfaith Action, said foreclosures are ‘racking New Bedford.’”

“‘We see the abandoned houses everywhere,’ he said.”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 15:23:11

Democracy is the worship of jackals by jackasses.

- H. L. Mencken

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-11-21 15:43:32

” Maybe we should stop producing cars and computers, too. That would certainly help prevent prices of those items from declining.”

Hey Dummy, when people have enough of anything or what they have is good enough to get the job done they stop buying that item. How hard is that to understand ?

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-21 16:10:49

I think a moratorium on building, at least mass development type building and perhaps commercial, wouldn’t be a bad idea. I’ve even called my county commissioner’s office about it. The staffer agreed, but given that builders and developers have such a stranglehold on the county commission, I don’t see that happening.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 16:22:00

Why do you need a moratorium or a government intervention?

Let the f*ckers build into the storm. Let them get ruined. It just means cheaper housing at the end.

That’s how capitalism works.

Sounds double-plus extra good to me.

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-22 06:33:04

As you point out, the free market will approximately carry out Rosenberg’s idea after a while. In the meantime, I wish some HBBer’s would go post comments on the silly blog where Rosenberg’s idea was decried.

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Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-21 18:15:54

They might leave Mocassin Wallow Road alone.
Or not, if snowbirds open their wallets.
Second thought: that Ohio money may be evaporating.

 
 
 
Comment by FRED
2008-11-21 15:57:58

It’s amazing. No one gets it. Lower prices to affordable levels and people will buy those houses. Why is that so hard to understand.

Comment by oskar
2008-11-21 19:46:03

Affordability means asset deflation, which from what I gather, is a big no-no.

 
 
Comment by still_waiting
2008-11-21 16:01:09

“She said the notary who came to her house to get her to sign the papers had her sign blank pages and didn’t give her a copy of what she signed.”

If she’s telling the truth then she is obviously not playing with a full deck but I doubt she is being honest. Notaries have to work under a very strict set of rules. What incentive would the notary have to cheat? Is the notary making thousands of dollars from the deal? No way, I’m just not believing this.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 16:12:40

Did you meet many people during this bubble who were playing with a full deck?

I didn’t think so.

 
Comment by jimbo
2008-11-21 17:51:58

This woman’s story is similar to those I frequently hear from criminals. Suspects will give a statement, initial every page of its transcript, sign the transcript’s last page; then, when confronted with it later, they will admit to their initials and signatures, but claim they just initialed and signed blanks pages, over which the cops managed cleverly to type incriminating statements. Sure, I believe them.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 18:23:22

Someone, give this man a prize!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 18:26:09

Oh, and the prize is a free paddling by midgets so that you too can be a shooter not a dribbler.

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Comment by oskar
2008-11-21 19:44:31

No reacharound? Kudlow is big on reacharounds.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-11-21 16:10:59

“Are we going to force people to move to Phoenix, Florida, the Inland Empire, and Las Vegas?”

You didn’t have to force people to move to these formerly cheap locations before YOUR industry got greedy and priced everyone out.

 
Comment by jetson_boy
2008-11-21 16:19:19

Nice to see news about NC,GA,and TN. Nice because I sort of pay attention to these regions and last time I was visiting my folks in TN<, the general attitude was: ” well, we didn’t get as expensive as OTHER areas.” Still- 250k is a chunk of change in most of TN, and that was what some of the boring suburban homes outside Knoxville near good schools was going for. Overpriced. Parts of Nashville are really overpriced, like Franklin and parts of Murphysburro. I had no clue why they were expensive either. The look the same as the rest of the city.

Asheville is Extremely overpriced. No industry to speak of. Mostly retirees. Atlanta is freakin’ unbelievable. I was looking on Craigslist a couple of days ago at Atlanta houses. There are reams and reams of foreclosed homes of all levels and sizes. Lots of nice mcmansions. Lots of regular homes for 100-120k.

So… glad to see my neck of the woods finally get whacked too. It was just as bad here. It was only that it ’seemed’ cheap to people from other states who moved in en mass. Too bad they can’t sell their Florida homes anymore.

Comment by exeter
2008-11-21 18:30:14

“well, we didn’t get as expensive as OTHER areas.”

This one is a favorite of the real estate pukes. It seems to be the last gasp of denial as they backpedal off a cliff. I use it as an entry point to rip the arms from the remaining believers and beat them senseless with it.

 
Comment by Muggy
2008-11-21 19:56:08

“Murphysburro”

I think you mean, “Murfreesboro.” One of my favorite old haunts; the only town where I’ve lived that has a waffle house on each side of a highway overpass.

Very convenient for either the northbound or southbound drunkard.

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2008-11-21 16:32:03

“… meant to promote home ownership among low-income residents … unable to find qualified buyers.”

WTF! What kind of one-foot-on-a-banana-peel-the-other-in-the-twilight-zone conundrum did this “affordable housing” monster create?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-21 16:34:22

“Chants of ‘Wake up, Secretary Paulson’ filled Pennsylvania Avenue Tuesday morning as a crowd of 200 — including three New Bedford residents — prayed outside the Department of the Treasury. Daniel Lesser, organizer for United Interfaith Action, said foreclosures are ‘racking New Bedford.’”

TARP cargo cultists praying to their god…

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 17:18:32

American Idle

Comment by Muggy
2008-11-21 19:02:26

Brakes of Wrath

Not bad, young Muggy, a wise one you’ll be…

 
 
Comment by Martin Gale
2008-11-21 17:50:49

John Frum, er, Hank Paulson, where are you?!

 
Comment by oskar
2008-11-21 19:41:48

And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon gods they made…

 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-21 22:20:29

Where’s Moby Dick when we need him?

 
Comment by az_lender
2008-11-22 06:37:37

The succession of Paulson by Geithner is a good sign that intervention is likely to remain directed at keeping banks in business, not at maintaining the impermanently high plateau of house prices.

Comment by The Housing Wizard
2008-11-22 07:40:10

Right ,AZ lender ……Notice how Wall Street hates any bail-outs for any other industry .

 
 
 
Comment by Dav eof the North
2008-11-21 16:49:32

“Sean Hanley thought Canada’s real estate market would be immune to the housing recession. Hanley has cut his asking price to C$3.99 million ($3.26 million) and is now offering a C$100,000 bonus, on top of regular fees, to the agent who delivers a buyer. He’s starting to think it may be easier to rent the place. ‘The only other option is to reduce my asking price by C$600,000 to C$700,000 to where I’d be virtually giving the place away,’ Hanley said. ‘I’m not about to do that.”’

Oh my gawd, these people. Does no one ever learn? Sean, ol buddy, maybe you can rent it out for a couple of weeks during the Olympics, like 100,000 other FB’s want to do. Good luck with that.

Here in the mysterious east (Saint John NB), people are just starting to wake up to the fact that maybe, just maybe, it won’t be 25% year-over-year increases forever. Especially if oil keeps going down, the dreams of being an energy hub are looking bleaker.

 
Comment by American_Screamer
2008-11-21 16:57:56

“‘Ritter said he has no problems speaking candidly about the marketplace, unlike those who find positive spins. ‘To a certain extent, that is how we got into this mess,’ Ritter said. ‘We all just encouraged each other to go farther out on a limb and take more leverage. I think there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and I am hoping it is not a locomotive coming. But ultimately in Vegas the good news is there is very limited supply, and when things turn round here, values are going to increase relatively quickly. I think the market has the capacity to become very strong again.’”

“He warned: ‘When we come out of this thing, we need to be more conservative. We need to use less leverage if any leverage at all. It is going to be long time before banks jump back in the lending game for land and land developers, and even to a large extent the builders.’”

Aren’t these too thoughts mutually exclusive? You can’t have the values increase relatively quickly but on the other hand be conservative in your use of leverage.

Comment by oskar
2008-11-21 19:40:28

Sales may increase quickly if enough people have 50% down, the price not so much. No one knows quite yet to what extent borrowing costs are going to rise in such a deleveraged environment.

 
 
Comment by American_Screamer
2008-11-21 16:58:58

too = two

(one to(o) many!)

 
Comment by Muggy
2008-11-21 16:59:19

Today was my last day… I start my new telecommute job after turkey day. This will either be a great bubble-play or end badly.

The goal is:
1. Save loot taking care of my littleman myself
2. Hoard cash to buy whatever
3. Reduce daily operating costs
4. Rev-up my side business again

We have discussed how the bust may push us back into a simpler existence. I’m certainly thrilled to be a new stay-at-home dad. I’ll be down at the park with my diaper homie, watching the gators annihilate ducks. Should be good, wholesome family time, and free!!

Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-21 19:10:28

Littleman will thank you some day.
I’m sure rooting for you, Muggy.

 
 
Comment by Mike in Carlsbad
2008-11-21 17:07:16

October California Foreclosure Report FORECLOSURERADAR.COM

Foreclosure sales drop substantially. Loan modification activity forestalls impact of negative equity.

Foreclosure sales dropped by 39.1 percent from the prior month, due to significant increases in cancellations and postponements. Under California law, scheduled foreclosure sales can be postponed for a period of up to one year, until they are either cancelled or sold. Cancellations, where the home is taken out of foreclosure, increased by 78 percent in October, resulting in nearly 20 percent of foreclosure sales scheduled for October being called off. Notice of Default filings, which start the foreclosure process, continue to be significantly impacted by CA State Senate Bill 1137, as lenders work through the new requirements the law imposed. Notices of Trustee Sale, however, rebounded after a significant drop the prior month.

 
Comment by jimbo
2008-11-21 17:29:04

Hey– Saw the Atlantic City Press item in the first regional thread today but was unable to post a comment from work. The city featured in the article, Linwood, is filled with homeowners who like to consider their municipality Atlantic County,NJ’s premier residential address: Filled with assorted professionals, casino execs; has its own “Gold Coast,” the county’s best schools, of course,etc. Anyway, I can tie this into the Desk Clearing thread because Atlantic County, which comprises both Linwood and Atlantic City, announced this week, so soon after election day, that it will ask its employees voluntarily to take an unpaid, week-long furlough so the county can avoid laying off more than the roughly 75/2500 it will have to let go. I’ve read predictions here about “tough times” ahead for governmental entities but really did not expect much belt-tightening here on account of declining tax revenues. I was surprised especially because of the total silence on the topic that preceded the elections.

I reported last month on how shocked I was at the lack of business for The Donald’s Taj Mahal on Columus Day weekend. I’m going to another show at the Borgata on 12/5 and will report on how that hipster haven seems to be faring. Have a nice weekend.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-21 17:51:26

The real question is what’s gonna happen to the Garage Mahal’s. ;-)

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-21 17:55:57

The blame game just got kicked up a notch…

“A former Federal Reserve governor speaking to a group of certified public accountants Thursday was critical of the actions taken by former Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan. Wayne Angell, a Kansas native who served on the Federal Reserve Board from 1986 to 1994, said Greenspan played a role in creating the housing bubble through monetary policy. He said the Fed’s move to bring the Federal Funds Rate to 1 percent in 2003 and keep it there until mid-2004 precipitated the housing bubble because there was no house price deflation.”

“‘One of the first conversations I had with Alan Greenspan was the Hippocratic Oath and the mantra to do no harm,’ said Angell, who is also a former chief economist at Bear Stearns. ‘But harm he did.’”

Comment by oskar
2008-11-21 19:37:41

The only question that needs to be answered is when Angell will be visited by the Angel of Death. Put a fork in him, he’s done.

Comment by CrookCounty
2008-11-21 21:58:39

Good answer, good answer. (clap, clap, clap). Survey Says …

[X] BUZZ!

“when Angell will be visited by the Angel of Death. Put a fork in him, he’s done” was not one of our choices. Perhaps the Angell family can Steal?

… [Drama]

And, a fork? Too weak to hold chop sticks, is it? [Forgive my sarcastic British accent].

“Blah, blah, blah.” A formal, or former, federal reserve governor means nothing.

/Jackie Chan + Bruce Lee @ 7.

“The Angell Family is going with ‘Knife’ … do I have … ‘Knife’?

[Ding/Flip]Knife is correct. The number two answer on our board.

So is Alan Greenspan gonna confess on the rack, or is oskar gonna jerk off to Alan Greenspan confessing on the rack first? Place yer bets, place yer bets …

Comment by oskar
2008-11-21 22:55:04

I’ll place my bet on oskar choking the chicken to Alan Greenspan confessing on the rack. I also place a bet on CrookCounty molesting the midget, Wayne Angell that is, thus causing his death. Gives new meaning to the term “Having a stroke”.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by CrookCounty
2008-11-21 20:54:14

“A Disaster For The Ages”

Ha ha ha ha. I do not find your lack of humor funny, furline. I’m sick and tied of being “Rick Rolled”, especially at Shay Stadium, or whatever it’s called!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Federline

Kevin Earl Federline (born March 21, 1978) is an American dancer, rapper, fashion model,[1] and actor. Previously engaged to actress Shar Jackson, Federline is best known for his two-year marriage to pop singer Britney Spears.[2] The couple’s divorce was highly publicized, followed by an ongoing legal battle for the custody of their two sons, Sean Preston Federline and Jayden James Federline. As of January 2008, Federline has sole custody of the children.[3]

Like Alexander The Great would have answered, Inflationary, or DEFLATIONARY! ;P

 
Comment by CrookCounty
2008-11-21 20:56:39

Yes, yes, I know. That is why We must revive the Princess at once.

/And …… Post {Quick}

Comment by CrookCounty
2008-11-21 23:52:25

-ily, niff-ily, scibidy-doo-dop-niff-ily.

/wave

(Targets) Acquired.

j/k :) Whoo! Shoul’da seen the looks on your posts!

Zippy-zoo dop diffily.

Comment by CrookCounty
2008-11-22 00:10:22

Shama-lama ding-dong. Post this too!

/hehe totally playin’ witch-yall.

LMFAO! :P

Jesus. Happy Thanksgiving. Cheer Up!

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-21 21:00:10

“For me, mammoth reform would include legislation that imposed new bone-chilling cash penalties and prison sentences for anyone who deceives consumers during the mortgage process. Mammoth would be creating a commando-type enforcement division at HUD. Mortgage professionals should be as afraid of HUD as many people are of the IRS.”

How about if HUD creates a mortgage SWAT team, that guns down anyone who decieves customers during the mortgage process? I bet that would eliminate lending fraud before you could bat an eye.

Comment by CrookCounty
2008-11-21 21:11:57

Professor Bear still not hibernating, well that explains the stock market rally. :P

a commando-type enforcement division

Predator. Jungle scene. Blow up some trees, until the guns keep spinning and screaming for smoke grinding blood ammo refills. Love that scene. Arnold is right there too.

To me, mammoth would be Chewie with the handcuffs, as we take over the prison ward, to rescue Princess Leia! :P, or however you spell her name at half mast.

 
 
Comment by CArefugee
2008-11-21 21:27:16

“I’m not anti-gun, just handguns.

They serve no purpose in a polite society, other than to allow us to hurt one-another.”

Or defend ourselves. Aladinsane, you’re obviously not a female. Welll, I am and an ardent handgun lover. My .38 is a great equalizer when faced with a male attacker who would hurt me.

Comment by CrookCounty
2008-11-21 22:37:32

Sharon Stone Vs. Clint Eastwood. Haha. Go pelican, fly pelican! Who do I truest? Me! Who put this together? Me?

Just gimme the spread!

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-22 08:06:55

But CArefugee - carrying a handgun isn’t, well, *polite*. A nice girl, for the greater good, would allow themselves to get raped, beaten to a pulp, or robbed. :)

 
 
Comment by CrookCounty
2008-11-22 04:05:19

mrktMaven:

We’re approaching the hour. Will sellers outnumber buyers or buyers outnumber sellers? Right now the markets are Doji, equal sellers and buyers. Let the battle begin.

Left right, left right, knee to the head, knee to the groin…

Like Keith Richards said, “Yet another guy who thinks he’s Mick …”

I liked that +/- 25 buyer/seller example shit. Bitch. You Big Dummy. Dumb Ass.

/wave

Comment by LongIslandLost
2008-11-22 07:19:19

What if the buyers refuse to participate?

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-11-22 09:09:39

ben, is it possible to block drunken fools from posting after they’ve had one too many? I like to watch them make fools of themselves, but when they start to get mean-mouthed that’s when you need to grab them by the back of the collar and escort them out of the building.

 
 
Comment by kalyson
2008-11-22 09:30:33

I don’t understand why Greenspan is not in jail. Or better yet, under the jail.

 
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