November 23, 2008

Bits Bucket For November 23, 2008

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Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-23 06:21:51

Washington Post:

“NBC Universal made the first of potentially several rounds of staffing cuts at The Weather Channel (TWC) on Wednesday, axing the entire staff of the “Forecast Earth” environmental program during the middle of NBC’s “Green Week,””

Global Warming has frozen over. Fitting intro to the “Green” presidency. What is the next big media driven political hoax? We can’t live without one.

Comment by Muggy
2008-11-23 06:28:35

“What is the next big media driven political hoax? We can’t live without one.”

Water shortage

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 06:49:14

About 3 weeks ago, just before it was going to rain for a few days, the Department of Water Resources (DWR) announced that 25 Million* Californians would have an 85% decrease in imported water deliveries in 2009.

I’ve known about this for quite a long time and so have they.

Why’d they wait until it was going to rain, to lower the boom?

* Essentially San Diego, Los Angeles & San Francisco

Comment by combotechie
2008-11-23 07:05:15

Then we Californian’s will have to learn to do without. No big deal. Cutting back on lawn watering and car washing would be a great start.

We human beans really don’t need a whole lot of water to get by.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 07:10:30

King,

Let’s run those numbers again for you, shall we?

You can expect in 2009, to get 15% of the water that you received in 2008.

Can you imagine the same scenario if we were talking about money?

If you earned $50k a year, in 2009 you’d earn $7500.

And money ain’t all that, but water is…

 
Comment by palmetto
2008-11-23 07:19:30

“And money ain’t all that, but water is…”

So’s air, and the oxygen content of air is decreasing as well, or so I’ve heard.

 
Comment by takingbets
2008-11-23 07:20:57

I wonder if the millions of swimming pools built around Bakersfield had anything to do with the shortage? And how are they going to stop these idiots from filling them up during a shortage crisis this summer?

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-23 07:21:53

Might it help if some people stopped filling up 35,000 gallon swimming pools?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 07:23:56

B.S.

You dissin’ local volunteer Fire Departments now?

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-23 07:30:01

lad,

Excellent strategy! Declare yourself a nonprofit. The pool is a volunteer fire department. Hoarding for the public good and all that.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 07:36:54

Only if we can appoint my feline accoutrements to high positions in said hierarchy…

And i’ve always been a non-prophet organization~

Just say no to dogma!

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-11-23 07:41:50

Get to know a true desert dweller - one who has to haul in all his water - and you’ll learn just how little water we folks really need.

Cut back 85% of our water supply? Lol. Bring it on.

 
Comment by Muggy
2008-11-23 07:45:58

“You dissin’ local volunteer Fire Departments now?”

Naw, we did that yesterday.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 07:47:52

King,

It’s not you I worry about adapting to the new paradigm, it’s those other 24,999,999 people (plus adjacent-illegals) that I feel might have problems backing down from their previous usage patterns…

 
Comment by peter m
2008-11-23 07:56:05

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-foodbank23-2008nov23,0,6313298.story

“Thousands turn out for separate offerings of free food and mortgage help. Some leave empty-handed.
By Ruben Vives, Bob Pool and Rong-Gong Lin II
November 23, 2008″….
Some sought a cart of groceries the week before Thanksgiving, others sought a way to keep from losing their homes in the new year. By the thousands, a diverse group of Southern Californians converged on two events Saturday aimed at helping families in hard economic times…..
“In Montebello, nearly 5,000 turned out for a food giveaway . ..Just a few paychecks ago, Betty Gillis, 44, was volunteering at a food pantry, handing out food to the needy. Saturday, she found herself on the receiving end of a food giveaway.”….
“Last month, the Whittier pharmacy technician was juggling two jobs to support her disabled husband, mother-in-law, and college student daughter. But her full-time employer cut her hours because there were too few customers. Her bosses also required her to work on weekends, forcing her to quit her second job — and the money ran out….
“My daughter asked me the other day, ‘Are we so poor that we have to stand in line for food?’ And I said, ‘Yeah,’ ” Gillis said……
“The scene in Montebello reflected the crisis confronting local food banks struggling to keep up with demand that has surged more than 40% since last year”..
“New to food lines are middle-class families…. including some that until recently earned $70,000 a year”
“We’re used to seeing low-income people and seniors on a fixed income coming in. Now we’re seeing more and more middle-class people coming in — people who just lost their job, are trying to pay their mortgage, or tapping into their 401(k) because of the huge financial losses,” said Darren Hoffman, a spokesman for the regional food bank.”

Real hardship out here in LA Area

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-11-23 08:00:51

Increase the price of water and people will cut back their consumption.

This works for gasoline, electricity, tomatos, etc and it will work for water.

Econ 101.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 08:03:29

What about golf course watering? I am guessing this is a sizable drain on San Diego water supplies?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 08:06:03

King,

‘tomatos’

Fess up, is you, or isn’t you DQ?

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-11-23 09:14:41

What about golf course watering? I am guessing this is a sizable drain on San Diego water supplies?

It’s high time that owning a golf course was an onerous proposition — unless you have your own water supply — because the resources cost too much.

 
Comment by Muggy
2008-11-23 09:29:07

“it’s those other 24,999,999 people (plus adjacent-illegals)”

I know! Don’t you hate all of those people!

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 10:17:54

Don’t bother him. He’s too busy french-kissing his ingots.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 10:29:51

eWWWWW!

Tongue.

My mom never saw a 12-pack of chicken-necks in the grocery store she didn’t buy, and we ate gizzards and if we wanted to scare ourselves, all you had to do was open the refrigerator and there was some bovines brain, celo-wrapped, pre-dinner.

You might say I grew up on subprime cuts of meat…

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 10:53:46

‘and there was some bovines brain, celo-wrapped, pre-dinner.’

I’ve been there. Except it was more body bits in various stages of disassembly, just kinda casually left about. Elk, deer, other creatures.
My dad enjoyed hunting. It beat the hell out of work. Poaching? POACHING?! How COULD it be poaching when Heavenly Father put animals on the earth for us to eat! That stupid gov’mint! They goin’ agin Heavenly Father!

Hahahahaha! Ahhhh…nostalgia.

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 11:09:15

“A cencus taker tried to test me once, I ate his live with some fava beans and nice bottle of Chianti.”

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 11:10:28

More about body bits:

I don’t like chicken gizzards much–too chewy, and the necks are rather bony for my purposes, but I LOVE chicken liver. In fact, I was going to make them for lunch today, a whole bunch, with many onions. Those of you who don’t like liver and onions have never had them cooked correctly. My trusty cast iron skillet makes them perfectly, with flawless caramelization, oooooh, and mounds of onions, just perfect…you know what, why’m I waiting for lunch? That’s way too long. Any time of day is a good time for chicken livers!

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 11:16:17

‘…and nice bottle of Chianti’.

Now see, that’s just gettin’ too fancy. I just went with a beer and some ketchup when I ate my census taker and his liver.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2008-11-23 11:29:41

My trusty cast iron skillet makes them perfectly, with flawless caramelization, oooooh, and mounds of onions, just perfect…you know what, why’m I waiting for lunch?

While my house is proud to be a Chicken Liver Free Zone, our trusty cast iron skillets are similarly blessed, it seems.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 14:28:49

Grandma and Grandpa would cooks us kids chicken liver gizzards and the necks. Necks were used in the chicken and home made noodle soup. They would fry the chicken livers with onion, (like you Olygal), bread the gizzards (flour, eggs and milk) and then fry them. I loved the gizzards.

 
Comment by SteveH
2008-11-23 16:21:30

You’ll never get our Washington water. No way. The Columbia River is ours, you hear, ours.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 16:35:09

cooks=cook.

 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 18:46:04

Liver; the great detoxifier. Where all the good stuff used in industrial farming winds up. Unless you eat it, that is.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 18:52:24

‘Where all the good stuff used in industrial farming winds up. Unless you eat it, that is.’

Yum-yum! Guess how much liver I ate today? About two newly- grown- mutant- limbs- from- chemicals worth. Delicious, every single bite.

 
 
Comment by crash1
2008-11-23 08:19:27

Looks like there may be renewed interest in reviving the failed 1982 plan to build a 400 foot wide by 42 mile long canal to divert water from the Sac-San Joaquin delta to the CA aquaduct. It had a 3.1 b cost at the time. Probably triple that now. Sounds like you all may need a bailout.

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Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:09:22

“Forget it Jake, this is Chinatown.”

 
Comment by Big Guy
2008-11-23 10:26:40

What about a nuclear powered desalinization plant out by the Salton Sea?

 
Comment by exeter
2008-11-23 13:20:07

Wall Street suspended the rain cycle. They’re so damn clever.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-23 14:16:47

Coachella valley is on giant natural aquifer. Waterbed -like during earthquakes.
Last spring, Desertscum ( desert sun)had front page article on million $ homes in PGA West gated communities.They were cracking in half, slabs, roofs etc as they were sinking due to water being depleted watering golf courses. Over 120 golf courses here, ya know. Only 2+/- that I know of are “environmental”.

 
 
Comment by 45north
2008-11-23 21:41:10

We are drinking beer at noon on Tuesday
In a bar that faces a giant car wash
The good people of the world are washing their cars
On their lunch break, hosing and scrubbing
As best they can in skirts and suits

All I want to do is have some fun, Sheryl Crow

not having water to wash their cars is one thing, not having a job is another

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Comment by palmetto
2008-11-23 06:33:39

Interesting you should bring this up. I think “the media”, especially TV and Radio, has been hoaxing their advertisers for a long, long time. I’m completely flabbergasted that they seem to have the funds to run these huge “news-gathering” operations (which in my opinion are nothing more than propaganda-spewing machines). There has been a huge increase in the number of channels and of course, in the corresponding personnel. Bright House, for example, appears to have a very large operation here in the Tampa Bay area. A ton of anchors and reporters. WTF?

But even more weird is the national level, both on air and cable news. Give me a break. I don’t think they get the numbers to justify what they charge advertisers. Yet they seem to have a ton of personnel. When are advertisers going to wise up and realize that the media numbers they are presented with are probably totally skewed like a Moody’s rating? I want to see some axes start falling in the TeeVee media, big time. I want to see major “personalities” bite the biscuit.

Comment by combotechie
2008-11-23 06:46:50

“There has been a huge increase in the number of channels and of course, in the corresponding personnel.”

This increasing number of channels causes viewer dilution; the public’s TV viewing hours are spread ever more thinly as the number of channels increase. This screws those channels with weak programming (which are most of them). This makes an investment in the media a poor one, IMO, as does an investment in radio.

Comment by Michael Fink
2008-11-23 09:36:48

The entire business model of the media companies is in question. The days of 10 minutes of programming, 5 minutes of commercials are coming quickly to an end. In 10 years, there’s going to be no concept of a “commercial break”. Technology has the means to totally thwart attempts to place commercial breaks in programs (take a look at SageTV if you’re curious; perfect commercial skip technology).

The future will be embedded ads in all the shows (or perhaps ad tickers along the bottom of the screen, but even then, technology will remove that), and a move to much more pay programming (ala HBO). There will always be a demand for programming, just the costs associated with it will drop dramatically because of the lack of funding from all the advertisers (thank god, no more “leaky pipes commercials!). We will have to see how this plays out, but I can promise you, we are quickly approaching the death of commercial television. The question is, what’s the next model?

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 09:41:03

Just look what they pay blowhards like Brian Williams, Tom Brokaw and Katie Couric. That’s a good place to start cutting fat.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 14:31:30

TV screens with advertisements at your local gas station. The local ARCO gas station has that now.

 
 
Comment by pismoclam
2008-11-23 14:51:36

‘24′ is back tonight. 8:00 pm in the Pacific time zone.

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Comment by SteveH
2008-11-23 16:28:40

I just moved to a new town for job reasons. My only interest in TV was cable for getting a fast internet connection. The connection alone was $49/month. With a basic TV package it is $39/month (for 1 year). What to do, what to do. Got the TV too. Haven’t watched ANYTHING except the election debates and the returns. Do I miss TV? Not. Netflix has live movie downloads that are great. Nattering nabobs of negativism are not missed (especially FOX).

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Comment by Muggy
2008-11-23 07:12:09

“Bright House, for example, appears to have a very large operation here in the Tampa Bay area. A ton of anchors and reporters. WTF?”

Don’t you love the Hernando guy?

For BayNews9, this is Fe-rr-dinaaaand Zogggggbaaaaum in Hernando County. He cracks me up.

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-23 07:18:03

“this is Fe-rr-dinaaaand Zogggggbaaaaum in Hernando County.”

ROTFLMAO! Exactly. Not to mention they have “news rooms” in all the Bay Area counties. I’ll bet it is all one room in one location, with a different background for each county that the reporter stands in front of to read the teleprompter.

Wonder what Ferdinand Zogbaum makes?

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Comment by clue
2008-11-23 10:08:37

“Plastics.”

 
 
 
Comment by hd74man
2008-11-23 14:49:13

RE: I want to see some axes start falling in the TeeVee media

Hey, Palmie…I noticed boatloads of empty seats at today’s Dophins vs. Patriots contest.

No boats out in the bay either.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2008-11-23 06:48:31

As far as NBC goes, it’s basically the propaganda arm for GE. In a way, I can see their media operation surviving, with a subsidy from Corporate. I guess there is a synergy of sorts there, instead of paying for advertising, they bought the outlet. Now I know what Brian Williams is: a commercial spokesperson. I’m sure he thinks he’s some sort of incarnation of Murrow, but he’s actually more like Billy Mays.

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-23 06:51:23

LOL, forget about GM. The new mantra is “What’s good for GE is good for America”!!

Rollin’, rollin’, rollin’,
Keep those tanks a-rollin’
Etc., etc.

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 07:38:01

Walk by a newsstand and check out the magazines. There are more useless publications out there, no doubt funded by the phony economy. I knew we’d gone mad when I was in the subway and saw a magazine called “Black Hair”. A whole magazine dedicated to black hair? Most of those rags cost $5.99 or more.

Look at that newsstand and ask yourself, “how many of those magazines will be around two years from now?”.

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-23 07:43:14

As long as Vanity Fair is still around, I’m a happy camper.

Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 09:47:00

Wow, Vanity Fair is the only magazine that I get delivered.
I would never have said so, you know, sounds gay and all….
“Not, that there’s anything wrong with that.”

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Comment by palmetto
2008-11-23 09:58:59

LMAO, Muir, you just have some class, is all. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

 
 
 
Comment by edhopper
2008-11-23 17:40:39

Though I here American Artist is an excellent magazine. ;-D

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 07:43:34

Physical gold shortage?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 08:28:46

Don’t get the gold dealer p*mp started. It’s already bad enough that it’s like a daily gong show.

Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 09:50:33

It came to me, my own, my love… my… preciousssss

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 10:55:28

Hahahaha!

 
 
 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:30:31

“My precious”

 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 10:38:10

Ohio coin dealer report; my guy says he’s seen an increase in the number of folks bringing in large collections for ” appraisal”, Says most wont part with anything….yet. Most seem to know about how much PMs are going for but are disappointed that they will only get near spot for their Kennedys and Pandas. Says very few “recent” rounds. Lots of “older stuff, bought in the goodtimes”. Says the last two guys looked like accountants. Welcome to change.

Comment by Muggy
2008-11-23 19:10:26

“Welcome to change.”

And dollars. Don’t forget dollars. Some of those selling their gold will probably want more than change.

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Comment by In Montana
2008-11-23 08:41:18

The Weather Channel was pretty decent before they jumped on the climate change bandwagon. It was actually as interesting to watch real-life stories about floods & hurricanes & ice storms as anything else on TV. Plus I get to see what other parts of the country look like. But when any media outlet tries to hard to sell us on something for our own good, it just rankles.

Comment by Bill In Los Angeles
2008-11-23 10:47:06

There are a lot of organizations using “global warming” as an excuse.

In Redondo Beach there is a no kill cat adoption agency. I want to find a nice humane home for my cat. Well the agency says that with global warming there is a year long glut of cats. I’m tired of this warming crap. In ten years we will revert to the ice age scare, just like in the 1970s.

There is always something the socialists try to scare people into buying their drab gray plan.

Comment by BanteringBear
2008-11-23 13:06:28

Greeeaaat, yet another animal forced into adoption by someone too selfish and irresponsible to see through their obligation.

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Comment by clue
2008-11-23 13:22:58

“I’ll get you my pretty, and your little dog too!”

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-23 14:22:02

Bill in LosAngeles..are you kidding?
kidding right?

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-11-23 16:19:42

sorry but I travel a lot (was Bill in Phoenix, Bill in Maryland).

This you don’t know, but was true: When flying from Phoenix to LA I took the cat to the TSA checkpoint. Had to take the cat out of the cage and carry her through. This time she wiggled out of my arms and took off like a rocket, ripping up the new shirt I bought the day before. About 15 TSA people helped chase her. This was 10 minutes. Finally I had her back in her cage and went to the far end gate. About 15 minutes later 3 TSA agents came to me and asked me to go with them back to the check point. I had to give them my name, address, phone number, and I fortunately had proof the cat had rabies vaccine and distemper vaccine. The cat scratched up one of the TSA people. I was very sorry for the victim whoever it was. I’m still sweating it - when I go home will there be a letter from some court about a lawsuit?

So I move once a year and take the cat with me. I don’t want another cat-astrophe like that to happen.

Now do you think I’m some monster for wanting to find a better home for the cat?

 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 18:53:15

Only one cat?

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-23 19:16:11

What kind of cat, particulars please.
Friendly? doesn’t sound like it.
Old?young?fixed? boy/girl?
Ornery like owner? !!!

 
 
Comment by SteveH
2008-11-23 16:40:12

There’s always something the fascists say to try and scare people into buying their drab gray plan. Look at the WMD b.s. build up to Iraq, Iran, terrorists, and the loss of civil liberties. Geez, conservative used to mean something, like fiscal responsibility and respect for the Constitution.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 14:36:50

I like it when they talk about how certain types of weather is formed or where it comes from. One example is how hurricanes are formed and where hurricanes come from.

Another favorite from the weather channel is “It Could Happen Tomorrow.” Pretty interesting.

I would like to hear more about weather around the world.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-11-24 10:07:21

I thought “global warming” had turned into “climate change” so that ANY change in the climate can be blamed on humanity? And how come during the Bubble no mention was made of the negative environmental impact of paving over the landscape with cheap, wasteful McCrudshacks? Oh, right - because lots of people were making money from it!

Meanwhile, based upon the webcams, the leaves in the Smokies turned colors earlier this year than any of the past 7 or 8 years, and first laying snowfall happened in October (though it was gone in a day). Global warming for the win!

 
 
Comment by Muggy
2008-11-23 06:26:02

Gladwell on CNN: The single most important variable in determining whether a plane crashes is not the plane, it’s not the maintenance, it’s not the weather, it’s the culture the pilot comes from. Planes are flown safely when the pilot and co-pilot are in open and honest communication. And in cultures where it is difficult for a junior person to speak openly to a superior, you have lots of plane crashes.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/11/21/malcolm.gladwell/index.html

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:06:28

“Youve got to ask yourself one question, ‘Do I feel lucky?’, well do ya, punk?”

 
Comment by Chip
2008-11-23 14:13:45

OK. I’m curious. Which countries?

Comment by SteveH
2008-11-23 17:07:04

This is a topic (plane crashes) that fascinates me, for some weird reason. I have a large collection of books on the topic, and several include cockpit dialogue just before the crash. To make a general statement, Asian pilot/copilots are more likely to be in a superior/inferior situation with the copilot hesitant to correct the pilot. Having said that, the character of the pilot is also critical. There was a crash in England where the copilot knew that something was wrong, but hesitated to be assertive in dealing with the pilot, who was known to be a martinet and not open to criticism. The pilot was also a check pilot for upgrades. There are a lot of factors in the human error part of crashes, and one of them is the ease with which the copilot (or engineer) can disagree with the authority figure. A lot of aircraft accidents are ‘controlled flight into terrain’ where there are no mechanical malfunctions but the crew is distracted by trivia. A good example of that is the crash in Miami (don’t remember the year) where the crew (pilot, copilot, and engineer) were so involved in looking and talking about a malfunction light that was lit (for a minor thing) that they let the plane descend and crash into the swamp. All they had to do was look out the window and pull back on the stick, but the distraction of a minor fault took all their attention. There are also other human causes. A pilot involved in a crash at Midland’s Airport, England, actually had a fatal heart attack during take off and was not able to function; the copilot, a newbie, didn’t assert himself when the pilot gave an unclear order in regards to flap retraction. Flaps were retracted too early on climb-out and the plane stalled and crashed, killing everyone. Fascinating (IMHO) topic. There is also fascinating stuff out there about who will be a survivor. If you are not aggressive and active in an emergency, but stand by and wait your turn, you will die. I actually look around me on a plane, see where the exits are, note people who look like they won’t act, plan an over the seat exit route, and generally prepare for the worst. I will have a much greater chance of getting out of there alive than people who don’t think about it. I also tell my wife to not even think about her handbag, etc., in case of an emergency; she looks at me strangely.

Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-23 19:18:12

You are an unusual passenger!

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Comment by wmbz
2008-11-23 06:34:13

Da change you can believe in, the deflationary boogyman is keeping the FED awake at night. What else can they do but keep on pumping money into the system, that’s all they know.

Obama says drafting bold economic stimulus…
CHICAGO (Reuters) - President-elect Barack Obama said on Saturday that he was crafting an aggressive two-year stimulus plan to revive the troubled economy, warning that swift action was needed to prevent a deep slump and a spiral of falling prices.

Obama gave a bleak assessment of the economy in his most detailed comments on the subject since winning the November 4 election and just a day after U.S. stock markets rallied on his apparent choice of Timothy Geithner, president of the New York Federal Reserve, as Treasury secretary.

“If we don’t act swiftly and boldly, most experts now believe that we could lose millions of jobs next year,” Obama said in a weekly radio address.

“We now risk falling into a deflationary spiral that could increase our massive debt even further,” he said.

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSTRE4AL24X20081122

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 08:55:35

“We now risk falling into a deflationary spiral that could increase our massive debt even further,” he said.

But spending trillions of dollars won’t increase our debt? I must be missing something.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:04:22

“Listen to me mister. You’re my knight in shining armor. Dont you forget it. Youre going to get back on that horse, and Im gonna be right behind ya. Hold on tight, and we’re gonna go, go,go.”

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 14:38:33

On Golden Pond

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Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 09:54:07

Now, now….
You’ll learn to LOVE the New, new Deal 2.1.004

Comment by exeter
2008-11-23 15:02:56

The whining cowards are expected to return their stimulus stipends to the US Treasury promptly. We’ll check in with them 180days from now.

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Comment by hd74man
2008-11-23 14:51:39

RE: “If we don’t act swiftly and boldly, most experts now believe that we could lose millions of jobs next year,”

Now there’s a call that that will open up the wallets for XMass.

 
Comment by cactus
2008-11-23 18:26:13

“By the time all this ends, the TARP is going to be closer to $2 trillion than $1 trillion,” ISI’s Gallagher says.

Paulson has already committed $290 billion from the program to buy preferred shares in banks and troubled insurer American International Group Inc.

There’s always a danger the Fed and Treasury may go too far, setting the stage for a big rise in inflation or another asset bubble down the road as the economy revs up and investors get back their nerve. That’s what happened in the early part of the decade as ultra-easy Fed policy and Treasury tax cuts helped fuel a credit boom since gone bust.

Bernanke and Paulson might welcome a bit of that exuberance right now — even at the risk of higher inflation later — as they try to prevent the biggest credit catastrophe in decades from sending the economy into a deflationary nosedive.

“It’s true that, over the long run, too much money creates inflation,” says Lyle Gramley, a former Fed governor now at the Stanford Group Co. in Washington. “But they’re trying to keep the economy from going over the precipice and into the abyss.”

I think its out of control

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-11-24 10:21:03

Can’t have prices spiraling down to where people can afford to buy and OWN a house! Nope, nope - gotta keep people in debt! Gotta force people to refinance with absurd fees every few years so they can keep playing house and acting like they “own” something. Meanwhile, the Wall Street pigs sit back and get fat on the checks flowing… oh, wait - that model doesn’t work too well when everyone is flat broke!

Fire up the printing presses!

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2008-11-23 06:49:23

You are Right on this one. Its a confidence game. We show you our ratings book and our demographic profile and our rates are slightly below our competitors.

That’s sales, getting them to believe in the “book” and the sales staff is indoctrinated into that mantra.

America has gone through the last decade just refusing to hire anyone who can think outside the box or has any critical thinking skills. And it shows.

Also Palmy Your local cable company pays the cable TV station anywhere from 1 cent to maybe 25 cents per month per subscriber That’s why cable rates are so high YOU are paying for those 500 channels each month

So if Bright house can get on multiple cable systems with say 5,000,000 cable subscribers at 2 cents per month that is $100K a month $1.2 million per year.

Now what if they got 3 cents or 10 cents?

————————————————-
When are advertisers going to wise up and realize that the media numbers they are presented with are probably totally skewed like a Moody’s rating?

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:54:15

“Im mad as hell, and Im not gonna take this anymore!”

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 14:39:44

Love your movie quotes clue.

Just need to “Network” a little more.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 15:03:18

blushes…

“Mrs Robinson, you’re trying to seduce me arent you?”

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 15:47:52

“Would you like me to seduce you?” ;)

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 17:13:02

“We’ll always have Paris.”

 
 
 
 
Comment by peter a
2008-11-23 10:06:30

If you do it right you dont have to pay for all that programing.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-11-23 13:30:57

I ended my subscription with DirecTV™ several months ago. I think I was paying like $59.99 per month which included HBO. I decided that paying more than $700 per year for stuff I never watch is a joke. Anyhow, I have been inundated with offers from these people, the latest being for the same package at the much reduced price of $29.99 per month for the first year. I’m not interested. I’m actually happier without TV. If they would’ve reduced the price before I canceled, they may have won me over.

Comment by hd74man
2008-11-23 14:58:06

RE: I’m actually happier without TV.

The amount of bogus programming is truly mind-numbing.

I haven’t watched a series show since the end of the Soprano’s.

Still waiting for the pundits to establish a link between constant network TV viewing and mental illness.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 07:06:07

Congratulations to the All Blacks, winners of the Rugby League World Cup…

For many of you, this might be your very 1st Haka:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cle20lQg0Qs

 
Comment by AZgolfer
2008-11-23 07:07:10

I am off this morning to go play golf. Last weekend I was talking to one of the girls who works at a small local bank. She said there were a few months when they were taking back a million dollar house a day! And this is a small bank. She also told me people with $600 dollar a month car payments were coming in to get their home load modified. Yea - right, you can’t keep the Caddie and get a lower house payment.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:00:56

“Wait a minute, wait a minute. You aint heard nothin yet.”

Comment by krazy bill
2008-11-23 11:46:14

Words that changed the world…

 
 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-11-23 15:34:48

“She also told me people with $600 dollar a month car payments were coming in to get their home load modified. Yea - right, you can’t keep the Caddie and get a lower house payment.”

At what point, if any, due to the absurd volume of foreclosures, do banks become desperate enough to start dealing with these types of people? In many respects, though I don’t personally believe in modifications, etc, it makes sense for these banks to offer concessions. They are getting annihilated by people walking away.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2008-11-23 07:07:47

Just received the first monthly payment from the Failed Florida Flippers. These are people who “bought” a $68K 2004 3BR 2BA house from Deutsche Bank, using a $54,400 loan from me. Their business plan was, rehab in one week, advertise one week, sell to the highest bidder at the end of 2nd-weekend open house. But they set a minimum bid of $79K (Deutsche Bank’s original asking price), and the dozen open house lookers failed to bid. Duh. My thinking is, I’ll take the house before I’ll take a “short sale.” One HBBer said it’s no fun being long-distance LL. I wouldn’t be LL, I’d spend winters in it. Anyway, if I don’t raise a ruckus maybe they’ll just keep on making the payments !?

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-23 07:25:26

az,

What term was the loan to back up their 2 week business plan?

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-23 21:44:47

The point (for me) was not just to collect the two weeks’ interest. Point 1: any deal they might’ve made in their open house would’ve taken a while to close. Point 2: if they knew what they were doing, this sort of transaction would’ve been repeatable. (The actual term of the loan is 15 years, but that was just because I wasn’t going to make it an I/O.)

 
 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:02:55

az_
I had not commented on this before….
But, I think you over payed for your house and will be bored silly in the Winter.
I’d reconsider.

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-23 21:48:11

I don’t know. Morro Bay has been pretty boring too, when you come right down to it. It’s prettier than Cape Coral, but I’m not sure that warrants a worse house costing seven times as much. ($55K x 7 = $385K, which in MB buys a 30 year old 2BR 1BA thing on a 2500-s.f. lot)

Santa Barbara would be nice, but I can’t bring myself to pay the price!

 
 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-23 07:18:22

Got to love classic bipolar genius as a contrary indicator.

In April 2008 AP reported:

“President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad told an oil and gas exhibition in Tehran on Friday that he thought the commodity still had to “discover its real value,”"

“Ahmadinejad called the U.S. currency “a handful of paper” without any global support.

Iran has stopped using the U.S. dollar in its oil transactions with the outside world, switching to currencies such as euro.”

Ahmadinejad made his move about as close to the 1.60 exchange rate peak as one can get. Now the trade is in the 1.25 range. This is the man to watch.

In the early 1980s oil peaked at over $60 and gold $700. Oil fell back to $20 for decades and gold to $350, eventually slumping to $250.

November 2008; After oil falls to $50 from the peak of $147, Ahmadinejad converts financial reserves into gold “to avoid future problems”.

As FPSS would say: Come on Ahmadinejad, try to keep up!

Comment by combotechie
2008-11-23 07:49:46

“This is the man to watch.”

Add Hugo Chavez to your watch list. And Putin.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 07:54:29

It’s a metaphorical March of 1945 in the fatherland, and the ruins aren’t of a physical nature, but a financial nature…

And you clowns are looking for boogeymen overseas?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 08:05:57

Yes, yes, we know. The fear, the horror, the terror.

Be like a good gold dealer, and go caress your gold.

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Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 08:07:58

An earlier version of Pussy Galore, circa 1912:

“The Titanic is unsinkable, the men telling you to get into lifeboats are evildoers”

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 08:24:18

At least we’re not gold dealers p*mping gold on the board.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 08:33:05

Pussy,

I’ve never once pimped action towards my fellow $carlet Pimpernals in specific, as I could be called to task by the likes of you, and a conflict of interest would ensue.

I’ve been pimping Gold on here since about $400, and let the record show for itself how correct i’ve been since then about my recommendation.

What else has gone up in value since 2006, answer me that?

And besides, my work was done when supplies of the precious became quite precious…

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 08:45:17

Yen.

And this is the dumbest question ever. Just because you don’t know how to invest, and the only thing you know how to do is “buy and hold” your darling ingots doesn’t mean that’s a good idea.

You’re like congenitally deformed in your inability to see that there are lots of places to make investments not just your silly precious ingots.

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 08:49:10

p.s.

I also quite rightly stated my case against Silver, Platinum & Palladium, compared to the precious.

I hope a few of you were listening…

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-23 09:01:10

How about that call on oil, how did that one work out?

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 09:06:24

I got creamed…

I loaded up when it was at 6 and watched it go to 15 and then it went down again.

(my only financial action in oil, about every 2 weeks the same thing happens)

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 09:07:59

p.s.,

Sold my Lukoil stock way back when in mid-2007.

 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:05:50

” …it’s mine… my own… my precious… ”

-

Alad
“p.s.

I also quite rightly stated my case against Silver, Platinum & Palladium, compared to the precious.

I hope a few of you were listening…”

 
 
Comment by combotechie
2008-11-23 08:08:03

Not boogeymen, bozomen; Leaders of oil-producing states who became all puffed up due to rising oil prices and are now getting screwed.

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 08:53:19

At least there’s one thing in the world that feels right. The only problem is that desperate animals do desperate things.

 
Comment by scdave
2008-11-23 09:59:34

and are now getting screwed ??

Let them drink it !!! Move heavy trucking to LNG…Mandate that ALL Fed, State and muni vehicles (As best you can) be electric by a date certain…

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 08:01:40

(snark tag)Don’t forget to include Bin Laden.(snark tag off)

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 08:53:52

We’ll smoke em’ out, you’re with us or against us, and don’t ever let em’ see you negotiate.

(7.11 years summed up)

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Comment by FB wants a do over
2008-11-23 07:36:13

Mercury News

San Jose property owner Salvador Ruiz paid a company $8,950 to renegotiate the terms of his loans on two houses four months ago, but he says they did nothing and haven’t returned his money.

“They tell me everything’s OK, but they haven’t done anything so far,” said Ruiz, who is filing a complaint with the California Department of Real Estate.

With non-profits and banks overwhelmed by the demand for their services from people like Ruiz, an army of consultants has sprung up in San Jose and around the state offering homeowners help getting banks to modify their loans — for a price.

“It’s a relatively new phenomenon,” said California Department of Real Estate spokesman Tom Pool. “It’s becoming an issue. As always, people get very clever when they see an opportunity.”

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_11034787

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:58:52

“Greed. For the lack of a better word is, good.”

Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:11:15

The smart money says buy Bluestar.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 15:50:45

“Are you listening?”

“Plastics.”

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Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 16:22:34

The room number, Benjamin. I think you ought to tell me that.
Benjamin: Oh, you’re absolutely right. It’s 568.
Mrs. Robinson: Thank you.
Benjamin: You’re welcome. Well… I’ll see you later, Mrs. Robinson.

 
 
 
 
Comment by lanotary
2008-11-23 22:02:17

A couple of people I know are trying to get their loans renegotiated through attorneys. Supposedly this firm has a 95% success rate. I have to say I’m going to be a little disappointed if it works for them. They both bought over 10 years ago and heloc’ed their homes up the wazoo and blew hundreds of thousands of dollars. This firm claims to be able to get rid of the second entirely in most cases and significantly reduce the first mortgage as well. I’m thinking it’s likely a scam, but boy, if it isn’t then my friends just legally robbed banks of big time bucks. Meanwhile another acquaintance of mine sits behind bars awaiting trial for illegal bank robbery. That guy only got away with like $20,000 in 2 seperate robberies and will likely spend 20+ years in jail. Doesn’t seem right… Both of them belong in prison if you ask me. Debtors prison for 2 and good old federal for the other.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 07:40:10

Bear market indeed!’

Saw 4 of em’ just off the road yesterday, playing the crowd.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:57:28

“One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas, how he got in my pajamas, I dont know.”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 09:31:53

“One morning I didn’t go to the beach.”

 
 
 
Comment by FB wants a do over
2008-11-23 07:40:37

From corrupt closing agents to criminal condo flipping, Florida has held the top spot for mortgage fraud in the nation since 2006, according to the FBI.

An April FBI report warns the depressed housing market provides “an ideal climate” to create more victims.

Here’s an example: After falling behind on their mortgage, Henry Gribensk, 56, and his wife Rhonda Schnitzler-Gribensk, 53, received a flood of mailers promising help with foreclosure. One, from a company called Florida Housing Council, seemed promising, Gribensk said.

The company’s owner, Jack Moussa, went to their Loxahatchee home with a stack of documents, which the couple hastily signed, thinking Moussa would help them restore their credit and avoid foreclosure. Instead, the contract transferred their property to a trust controlled by Moussa, making the Gribensks renters and subject to eviction, they allege in a lawsuit.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-flpmortgage1123pnnov23,0,1207601.story

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:55:11

“Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship.”

Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:16:55

Where were you last night?
That’s so long ago, I don’t remember.
Will I see you tonight?
I never make plans that far ahead.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 07:41:44

The threat of the sort of massive spates of mortgagee sales seen in the United States is remote. There are a couple of good reasons for that.

Firstly, New Zealanders are good at paying their mortgages on time.

There’s a structural reason for this. In New Zealand, the bank essentially has a right to chase a borrower down for repayment, regardless of where they live.

It’s not possible to simply decide to abandon a big loan and leave it with the house. Returning the keys to the bank in New Zealand is not a solution.

But it is in the US. About half of the states in the US are so-called “non-recourse” states where keys can be handed back to the bank and the borrower can walk away scot-free.

This has been a major factor in the mortgagee sales or “foreclosures” that swept many states late last year and through this year.

California, Nevada and Colorado have been particularly hard hit.

All are “non-recourse” states.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10544519&pnum=0

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:52:55

“You dont understand! I coulda had class ! I coulda been a contender. I could’ve been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am.”

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 08:57:37

If you are into self-torture, Brando’s German accent in “The Young Lions”, might be the worst one ever.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:14:07

“My mother thanks you, my father thanks you, my sister thanks you, and I thank you.”

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Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 10:55:23

“…..velcome to Chermany….”

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Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-23 16:28:47

But it is in the US. About half of the states in the US are so-called “non-recourse” states where keys can be handed back to the bank and the borrower can walk away scot-free.

Funny - I would have thought that the above fact would have made it harder to get a loan. The banks would have higher interest rates because they priced in the risks *and* they would have demanded large down payment.

But if that didn’t happen, that would have made bankers idiots for lending in non-recourse states without factoring in the risks. Then we would have had a hugh price run up that would have detached prices from any sort of fundamental prices support…

Hey, wait a minute!! That sounds familiar, but there’s no way the bankers could have had a hand in the current mess.

It must be because people are allowed to have their rest of their assets detached and hand back only the asset they used to secure the loan. That must have caused this whole bubble thing. ;)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 07:46:02

Citigroup courted disaster when it lost sight of risk

By Eric Dash and Julie Creswell
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE

In September 2007, with Wall Street confronting a crisis caused by too many souring mortgages, Citigroup executives gathered in a wood-paneled library to assess their own well-being. There, Citigroup’s chief executive, Charles Prince III, learned for the first time that the bank owned about $43 billion in mortgage-related assets.

Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2008-11-23 08:31:42

After reading that story, I am struck by the thought that certain organizations, instead of being “too big to fail,” instead become “too big to succeed.”

Citigroup is most likely not alone in that regard. Others that come to mind for me: General Electric, General Motors.

What does that portend for Exxon-Mobil? Google?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 09:01:59

I brought that up yesterday. Are we witnessing the death of the mega-corp business model? Most of these corporations need continual debt offerings. Will the next 25 years be as kind as the past 25 years? What a horror if we have to go back to local businesses.

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-23 10:22:41

Large or small, the debt based business model isn’t viable.

My local grocery is family owned. It has no debt. They will do just fine.

When I worked at Exxon, there was no debt, there was cash.

The company I work for is small, but it has taken on a huge debt to build a grandiose “green” building. A few years ago we rented flexible space. In the GD the GDP went down 30%, but some things like big ticket machinery, went down 75%. We’re screwed.

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Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2008-11-23 11:25:36

“What a horror if we have to go back to local businesses.”

That’d be awesome, actually. I think there are very few large corp’s in which the central management adds any value– and in most, it’s quite detrimental.

The WSJ et al. usually justify big corp’s on the grounds of economies of scale, focussing people’s energies, etc. But even the largest building projects– airliners, blast furnaces– can be built by networks of contractors working on self-organizing principles. Look at Linux!

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 11:58:42

‘After reading that story, I am struck by the thought that certain organizations, instead of being “too big to fail,” instead become “too big to succeed.”’

A sufficiently large critical mass of “too big to fail” corporations can make an entire economy “too big to succeed.” This is the long-term logical consequence of a protracted period of “too big to fail” economic crisis management policy

Comment by Chucky
2008-11-23 17:48:45

Extremely well said, Prof.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 20:45:10

Thanks. I am sorry to report that OBwan has appointed top economic advisers who are likely to try their best to continue bailout business as usual going forward.

 
 
 
Comment by jrm1493
2008-11-23 21:57:41

don’t know about google, but my dad is fairly high up at XOM and they have no debt and loads of cash; they are extremely conservative in the way they run their business, much more than any other large oil company.

 
 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:39:53

“Im gonna make him an offer he cant refuse.’

 
Comment by CrackerJim
2008-11-23 09:17:53

“…learned for the first time that the bank owned about $43 billion in mortgage-related assets.”

Speaks volumes about the type of in-depth critical management received from “Ivy League educated best-and-brightest” that procures them the status of being compensated up-the-ying-yang for the performance of high school dropout.

Comment by CA renter
2008-11-23 17:36:23

Exactly.

Funny…**we** knew Citigroup was going to have problems with these loans and derivatives…but the CEO did not know, right?

Somehow, I’m not buying it. Looks like the exectives are trying to distance themselves from the problem by feigning ignorance.

Perhaps we will see some perp walks after all. Can’t come soon enough — and the govt should have to seize all their assets if found guilt of fraud or gross negligence!!! Make them pay for some of the mess they’ve created.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 07:49:25

Contrarian indicator noted: When financial planners are recommending short funds to Joe Investor, is it about the right time to get long?

GAIL MARKS JARVIS
Investment options for a bear market

November 23, 2008

First, stock market losses left a sting. Now, after a nearly 50 percent decline, the losses feel like an open wound.

That’s especially true for retirees who depend on their savings for living expenses. They’ve watched in horror as even portfolios light on stock mutual funds have lost 20 percent or more.

“I look at their portfolios and I can’t believe my eyes,” said Cathy Curtis, an Oakland financial planner. When she talks to some clients, she said, “I hear their voices quavering, and I know they aren’t sleeping.”

So Curtis, like other planners seeking to soothe clients, has been reaching for something to dull the pain while she urges clients to wait for their stock mutual funds to heal.

The answer: a small dose of a mutual fund that shorts stocks, betting on them to fall. In contrast to the usual stock mutual funds that people buy and hold for the long term, the short funds are designed to make money when the stock market gets ugly. The worse the decline in the stock market, the more money the investor makes in the funds.

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-23 08:34:51

50% breaks the record from ‘29, doesn’t it? There was a nearly year long bounce after that one.

Yes we can! For a while maybe.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 09:06:39

There will be just enough of a rally to keep the sheep in the pen. Then they will get one massive slaughtering. It works every time.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 09:19:47

Yeah, you’re gonna see a very sharp bear-market rally.

And after that will be the slow ride into hell.

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Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:21:00

Stand by to initiate release sequencer. On my mark. Five. Four.
Hudson: We’re on an express elevator to hell; going down!
Ferro: Three. Two. One. Mark.

 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2008-11-23 10:47:16

LOL, PB. If DCAs stop buying and start selling all at once, this will be over in days. These suckers are the ones propping the markets. The smart long money is long gone. The traders are having their way with the carcass (big ups and downs). The government’s inner circle keeps swathing at traders like they’re flies.

Comment by Kim
2008-11-23 15:07:00

“If DCAs stop buying and start selling all at once, this will be over in days.”

…and I wonder how many folks will keep contributing anything to their 401Ks after the first of the year? My guess is, in addition to being sick of being at the mercy of traders, folks will need the cash closer to home.

 
 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 11:11:34

If retirees who depend on their savings for their living expenses cant make it, they either
1 - didnt save enough
2 - retired too soon
3 - didnt change their living habits
4 - didnt downsize their housing
5 - kept their “savings” in stocks
really need to
1 - downsize their housing
2 - go back to work
3 - change religion to Cargobamma, and pray….a lot

Comment by ecofeco
2008-11-23 14:11:51

Yep, blaming the victim is always the answer.

Comment by exeter
2008-11-23 15:28:33

It’s a LIV/know-knowing standby and favorite.

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Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 19:07:26

Which of the 5 did you miss?

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Comment by FB wants a do over
2008-11-23 07:50:42

But Davis sought a brighter future. She graduated from beauty school, landed a hair stylist job in Ankeny, raised her children to adulthood and saved $3,000, enough to finally close on her own home. It was an exciting day. Davis’ daughters helped move into the Regency-built Meadow Vista Townhomes in Altoona, closer to her work.

She hung a wooden plaque on the wall, the carved letters spelling a single word: Trust.

Three years later, Davis is not far from taking that word down, literally and figuratively. For Davis and thousands across the country, the dream of home ownership is a nightmare as they face foreclosure, their trust waning. In Iowa, roughly 7 percent of mortgages are past due or in foreclosure.

Davis, 53, says she didn’t fully understand the terms of her contract and is three months behind on her mortgage payments. She is begging lenders to work with her. So far they won’t and it could go to court, where her home could soon be one of a startling number foreclosed for sheriff’s sale.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20081123/NEWS/811230325/-1/ENT05

Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2008-11-23 08:19:10

I just don’t understand banks or mortgage lenders, or anyone, thinking that $3,000 qualifies as a down payment on a house. On a car, yes. On a house, no…

Comment by NOVAwatcher
2008-11-23 08:57:10

I was at an open-house in a ritzy DC-metro neighborhood last weekend. The realtor suggested that some regulation was changing in January (OFHEO? doesn’t really matter), and that I would no longer be able to get a mortgage with only 3% down.

I looked at the guy in disbelief, blinked for a second, and resisted the urge to scream ‘nobody should be able to buy a nearly million-dollar house with only 3% down’. Yes, I realize it was a ploy to give us a sense of urgency, but to think that folks can still get a place with only 3% down is unbelievable.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 09:59:29

All the more reason to wait.

Who has the cash to compete against you after that?

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Comment by Michael Fink
2008-11-23 10:00:03

FHA rules are changing in Jan back to their old limits. No more 729K homes on an FHA loan. I doubt it will really happen (I think they will extend the higher limits) but the RE agents are using it non-stop as a sales tactic.

Now, let’s pause for a moment here. FHA’s stated mission is to “serve low-income, first-time home buyers”. Uh huh. So, the person who can afford the 729K home is “low income”. What kind of bizzaro world do we live in? In fact, the conforming loan limit (at 400K) is probably also too high, 400K homes should not be bought by people with <125K income; these people need a subsidy??

Anyway, I digress. Back to FHA. So, now FHA can secure up to 729K loans for these supposed “low-income, first time buyers”. I’m sorry, but my head is going to explode just thinking about that. We are now classifying people who make 250K (1/4 of a million dollars a year) as “low income”, needing of a subsidy from the government? Is it me, or is that the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

FHA loan limits should, in fact, probably be right around 100-200K, depending on the area. Take the median household income, multiply by 3, and set the limit there. That would support FHA loans for the bottom 50% of workers. In Palm Beach, that would take the FHA loan limit from ~450K to ~180K (where it BELONGS).

God, sometimes I feel like I am in the twilight zone when I read this stuff. We have to make homes more affordable, so we RAISE loan limits? That makes homes more expensive you f-ing morons!

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Comment by ecofeco
2008-11-23 14:17:42

“Some people call you the elites; I call you my base.”

- George Bush addressing a a white-tie crowd at the Waldorf-Astoria during his 2000 campaign.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-23 14:34:23

“there are the ‘haves’ and then there are the ‘have mores’, that is what you are”

 
Comment by exeter
2008-11-23 15:21:15

And to think there are still clueless wage earning robots still making excuses for these economic terrorists is just plain insane.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2008-11-23 16:51:44

I’ve recently become quite fond of using the term “economic terrorists” when discussing the current situation, and it’s creators. The word “terrorist” is quite poignant, and draws the undivided attention of most individuals. My goal is to use this as MUCH as humanly possible when talking to ordinary folks, in order to bring about more awareness of the situation at hand. After all, they have indeed “terrorized” this country, economically speaking, and this should not go unnoticed.

 
 
Comment by Michael Fink
2008-11-23 10:05:41

Oh, also, think of it this way, if they really do remove FHA’s higher loan limits, that will just serve to push prices down faster for those of us with cash on hand to get a “real” mortgage. FHA removing the higher limits is bullish for bottoming out the housing market faster! :) That’s the positive spin that I’m getting from it anyway!

Frankly, the best thing that they could do is remove the higher limits, and then make it an ABSOLUTE rule that you cannot get ANY loan (or combination of loans) that exceed 3X your household (1040, NOT stated) income. I’d buy about 3 months after that rule went into effect because, at that time, I would then know that I am no longer competing with people making 1/3 of what I do, but willing to commit 100% of the income to housing expenses.

The more competition for an asset, the higher the price. In the range I am looking (300-400K) there should be VERY little competition in my area, given that only about 3% of the population in my hood make enough money to afford a 400K home.

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Comment by aNYCdj
2008-11-23 12:44:41

NOW you know how I feel applying for jobs today, the clueless ignorance of HR people and the sheer madness of begging people for a job and told you are too smart for the job. I am so tired of being so unemployed…

i was even turned down for a lousy File Clerks job in a law office that was 5 blocks away from my apartment, and the reason the fired the little girl who was there, was because she was always late!

I really am scared for my future

——————-
God, sometimes I feel like I am in the twilight zone when I read this stuff.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 15:51:26

“…the clueless ignorance of HR people…”

Go to this site, read the guy’s book, and follow his recipe:

http://www.jobhuntersbible.com/

At worst you will have a far more enlightened understanding of yourself and of the job market after pursuing this strategy.

One of the pearls of wisdom therein: Never deal with HR people, as they primarily exist to screen you out from the eligible job applicant pool.

 
Comment by Happy2bHear
2008-11-23 20:36:33

Try a temp agency. It is a good way to get your foot in the door. That said, during the last downturn, even the temp agencies wouldn’t talk to me.

While I was on unemployment, I marketed my skills to anyone I knew for short term side gigs (and reported the income to the unemployment office - so I didn’t get unemployment for those weeks when income came in, but it stretched the unemployment benefits). When unemployment ran out, I took whatever I could get to keep food on the table. It was a rough couple of years, but we muddled through.

 
 
 
 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:41:07

“Fasten your seatbelts. Its gonna be a bumpy night.”

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-11-23 11:19:29

Don’t worry about that 7% number. 93% of loanowners are still making their payments!

That’s what the REIC says around here, anyway. No matter the foreclosure rate is 7 times historical average.

Comment by combotechie
2008-11-23 15:08:38

Do the math: The monthly payments the 93% make won’t make up for the 7% who default.

The 93% whack out the mortgage in pieces one month at a time, and it may take up to thirty years to complete the job.

The 7 percenters force the bank to whack out the mortgage all at once, thus destroying the bank’s balance sheets.

 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 19:12:07

In the Korean Police Action, it was found that less than 10 percent of the troops fired 90+ percent of the rounds; the majority never fired once. So I guess there was nothing to worry about.

 
 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 07:59:06

“Citigroup’s $2 trillion of assets dwarfs companies such as American International Group Inc. that got support from the U.S. government this year. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke may favor a rescue to avoid the chaotic aftermath of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s bankruptcy in September.

“Citi is in the category of ‘too big to fail,’” said Michael Holland, chairman and founder of Holland & Co. in New York, which oversees $4 billion. “There is a commitment from this administration and the next to do what it takes to save Citi.”

The Fed is sure doing a great job overseeing the banking system. If only we could get one of their top guys into Treasury, they could really go to work on fixing things.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 08:00:34

Patience!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 08:07:14

Only have to wait 10 or so more hours.

There’s an announcement coming before the Japanese market open.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 08:14:46

At least they are committed to openness and transparency. They are rebuilding the faith that people have in our business and political leaders. Oh, but if they told us the truth that would really make things bad.

I look forward to the announcement of yet another “plan” at 6:55 EST tonight.

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Comment by Ernest
2008-11-23 08:27:07

“”They are rebuilding the faith that people have in our business and political leaders.”"

Faith in man and uber government. Something tells me we have seen all of this before. Wonder how it will turn out?

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:44:36

“Cindarella story. Outta nowhere. A former greenskeeper, now about to become a Masters Champion. It looks like a mirac… Its in the hole !! its in the hole !! its in the hole..”

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-11-23 10:07:40

“I look forward to the announcement of yet another “plan” at 6:55 EST tonight.”

Boss! Boss! De plan, de plan!

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 10:16:13

About 10 years ago @ the dead people’s auction in Pico Rivera (Los Angeles County Public Administrator auction, if you die w/o heirs in L.A. Co., your stuff ends up here) they had Hervé Villechaize’s earthly remains up for bids…

A remember there being a rifle (the one he did himself in with?) and an exercycle built for a midget, amongst his debris field.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 08:15:47
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Comment by clue
2008-11-23 10:18:34

“You’re gonna need a bigger boat.”

 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:28:37

Fellows, let’s be reasonable, huh? This is not the time or the place to perform some kind of a half-assed autopsy on a fish… And I’m not going to stand here and see that thing cut open and see that little Kintner boy spill out all over the dock.

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 10:51:46

“Here’s lookin at you kid.”

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2008-11-23 08:31:11

Political capital is a terrible thing to waste.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 07:59:10

At $300,000 per house, $150,000,000 would buy 500 foreclosures.

I personally don’t understand how buying up foreclosure homes serves a public purpose. But then I passed this Civics Quiz with a score above 90 percent, so perhaps I see the world differently than many pols.

NEWS & NOTES ABOUT REAL ESTATE
Front porch

November 23, 2008

Report supports land-banking program

The Brookings Institution has released “Land Banking as Metropolitan Policy,” a report calling for federal support for land banking programs that reduce blight caused by home foreclosures.

Land banking is the process by which local governments acquire surplus properties and convert them to productive use or hold them for long-term public purposes.

The San Diego Reinvestment Task Force, which was formed to improve affordable housing opportunities and support economic development in low-and moderate-income areas, has endorsed a broad foreclosed-home strategy. In part, it calls for creating a land bank that would require as much as $150 million in public and private funds to succeed, said Barry Schultz, CEO of the nonprofit San Diego Capital Collaborative.

Historically, land banks have been able to acquire properties where real estate values are greatly depressed. They leverage public liens to gain control of land at little or no cost. Creating a land bank here, where many foreclosed homes still have substantial value, would be much more costly, officials say.

– EMMET PIERCE

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 08:13:43

“acquire surplus properties”

Is there a clear definition of what constitutes a surplus property? They aren’t making any more land, you know. And last I heard, San Diego had a housing shortage. Nonetheless, it sounds like would-be future home buyers and private firms which want to make a dollar in the foreclosure rehab business will potentially have to compete with federally-funded purchasers of foreclosure homes going forward.

 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 08:23:29

93.94%

That was a nice little quiz. I am embarrassed by one of the two I got wrong.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 08:36:40

I enjoyed taking the quiz last night with the assistance of my 11-year-old son. I was proud that he correctly answered many of the questions elected officials reportedly missed.

Comment by In Montana
2008-11-23 09:25:15

Well it worked the second time. I admit to having a bit of a carryover from the Jack and Coke last night, turbo-charged into my brain by multiple the cowboy jitterbugs, but I swear I got the answer in the right radio buttons.

It could be mis-scoring randomly and if so it’s giving a skewed result. The questions aren’t really that hard. These correct answers were changed to stupid ones:

<blockquote11 A. their arguments helped lead to the adoption of the Bill of Rights

12 B. the Supreme Court struck down most legal restrictions on it in Roe v. Wade

13 E. certain permanent moral and political truths are accessible to human reason

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Comment by In Montana
2008-11-23 09:11:21

Hey, I just took it and the scoring actually changed my answers to 11, 12 and 13 to the wrong answers. Harrummph! I did get 33 wrong though. I thought if spending = tax rev it meant there was no debt. But I know it doesn’t actually work that way so it was a dumb answer.

 
Comment by NOVAwatcher
2008-11-23 09:33:59

I feel dumb because I jumped the gun on question #33 and got it wrong. Had I read it more carefully, I would have gotten 31/33 (93.9%) vs. 30/33 (90.91%).

 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 11:43:39

Missed two. Dang! Thought I was always right.

 
Comment by Northof49
2008-11-23 14:07:05

74 - but I’m Canadian - a common excuse for low test scores…

 
 
Comment by Ernest
2008-11-23 08:33:40

“”Davis, 53, says she didn’t fully understand the terms of her contract and is three months behind on her mortgage payments. “”
————————-

“”But then I passed this Civics Quiz”"

Fully 71 percent of Americans flunked a 33-question civic-literacy survey conducted by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute. Among 2,508 respondents ISI randomly selected, 1,791 failed this test of U.S. historical, political, and economic basics. The average score was just 49 out of 100 — a solid F. While just 2.6 percent scored Bs on this quiz, only 0.8 percent earned As.

————————–

I believe there is a direct relationship here…

Comment by jrm1493
2008-11-23 22:09:01

pretty pathetic, i got a 93.94% (apparenty in the top 1% of US citizens) and i was barely in the top 50% of my high school class; I do have an engineering degree from a “public ivy” but my GPA was average at best (actually probably somewhat below average), and I “flunked” out of grad school with a couple C’s because i was not motivated (mostly due to personal issues and somewhat due to a bad advisor).

I think it means that our education system does not really reward the independent thinkers…. to a certain extent my career has awarded me much more than my schooling ever did, as I think I have excelled compared to those that started around the same time that I have, so maybe there is some hope?

 
 
Comment by technovelist
2008-11-23 09:28:17

I got 100%. Do I get a prize? :-)

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 09:44:25

Yes. You get the prize of knowing you are not one of the sheep.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 09:47:12

Carl Spackler: So I jump ship in Hong Kong and make my way over to Tibet, and I get on as a looper at a course over in the Himalayas. A looper, you know, a caddy, a looper, a jock. So, I tell them I’m a pro jock, and who do you think they give me? The Dalai Lama, himself. Twelfth son of the Lama. The flowing robes, the grace, bald… striking. So, I’m on the first tee with him. I give him the driver. He hauls off and whacks one - big hitter, the Lama - long, into a ten-thousand foot crevasse, right at the base of this glacier. Do you know what the Lama says? Gunga galunga… gunga, gunga-galunga. So we finish the eighteenth and he’s gonna stiff me. And I say, “Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know.” And he says, “Oh, uh, there won’t be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness.” So I got that goin’ for me, which is nice.

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Comment by clue
2008-11-23 10:13:29

“Made it Ma! Top of the world !”

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 10:21:09

Did he ask the Dalai Lama about his gold?

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 10:38:21

“Frankly my dear, I dont give a damn.”

 
Comment by Big Guy
2008-11-23 12:04:00

Just about Manganese, nitrogen and chinch bugs

 
 
 
 
Comment by Mot
2008-11-23 09:50:44

Coool, I got 100%. I must be civic minded.

 
Comment by QinQueens
2008-11-23 10:14:29

100 %

Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:47:26

Well, I didn’t!
There!!

 
 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:45:42

You answered 29 out of 33 correctly — 87.88 %

Average score for this quiz during November: 77.6%
Average score: 77.6%

You can take the quiz as often as you like, however, your score will only count once toward the monthly average.

If you have any comments or questions about the quiz, please email americancivicliteracy@isi.org.

You can consult the following table to see how citizens and elected officials scored on each question.

Where to from here?

Answers to Your Missed Questions:

Question #9 - A. Make treaties
Question #10 - C. Religion
Question #14 - B. stressed the sinfulness of all humanity
Question #29 - B. a resident can benefit from it without directly paying for it

 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2008-11-23 12:00:52

You answered 31 out of 33 correctly — 93.94 %

 
Comment by what-me-worry?
2008-11-23 12:27:08

Two wrong. I was certain the Puritans banned daguerreotypes during Spring Break.

Comment by Pullthetrigger?
2008-11-23 16:09:45

You answered 29 out of 33 correctly — 87.88 %

Average score for this quiz during November: 77.5%
Average score: 77.5%

You can take the quiz as often as you like, however, your score will only count once toward the monthly average.

If you have any comments or questions about the quiz, please email americancivicliteracy@isi.org.

You can consult the following table to see how citizens and elected officials scored on each question.

Where to from here?

Answers to Your Missed Questions:
Question #7 - D. Gettysburg Address
Question #8 - C. appoint additional Supreme Court justices who shared his views
Question #14 - B. stressed the sinfulness of all humanity
Question #33 - D. tax per person equals government spending per person

But question # 33 is tricky. They don’t say that the tax per person actually means the AVERAGE tax per person, so it’s a bit misleading, IMO. Nonetheless, not too shabby a score for the like of yours truly.

Comment by Pullthetrigger?
2008-11-23 16:55:11

like = likes

Thanks for posting the link, PB. I love to take tests, especially those I can do well on. :) The fact that our elected officials did so poorly on this quiz is surely alarming, indeed.

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Comment by Little Bear
2008-11-23 14:59:00

90.91%

Missed:

Question #4 - B. Would slavery be allowed to expand to new territories?
Question #10 - C. Religion
Question #33 - D. tax per person equals government spending per person

On #33 I thought both the answer that I chose (A) and the correct answer (D) were both wrong. (D) was my first choice, assuming averages. But (D) could also be read as saying that what the Government spends on each person equals the amount of tax received from that person, which is, of course, wrong.

Oh well.

 
 
Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 08:10:17

This is just awful. What kind of a world would it be if our prized athletes had to take a pay cut? They do so much for society.

http://tinyurl.com/5lqpzs

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:12:00

“Tell em to go out there with all they got and win just one for the Gipper.”

 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-11-23 09:42:27

Oh NYC.

My hubby cried into his beer when I predicted this some time ago…

We will learn austerity, one way or another (feel a song coming on here).

Leigh :)

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 09:45:34

Tell him that I said, “the Packers suck!”

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-23 16:36:42

Leigh

My hubby cried into his beer when I predicted this some time ago…

Was he seriously upset or is it just yank? I tend to think if you were a true sports lover that lower salaries would be brightening your day. (More focus on sports, less on drugs and 10 billion dollar salaries - rounding, of course. :) )

 
 
Comment by in Colorado
2008-11-23 10:54:46

I read something interesting a few weeks ago, when they had the Chargers-Saints game in London. The NFL commissioner visited the brass at the English Premier League (soccer) for some tips on going international. Apparently in this age of globalization the NFL is afraid of being left behind, which is not surprising as there is little interest in American Football outside of North America. I’m sure the NFL is envious of teams like Manchester United, Arsenal or Chelsea that have fans an TV broadcasts of their matches around the world.

Anyway, my understanding about adding 2 games to the season was so that each NFL team cold then play 1 or 2 games overseas to “sell the brand”. IMHO its already too late for the NFL. The European league was a flop. Sure, people will attend those games, out of curiosity (many will be ex pats). But the NFL will never have the reach of EPL.

 
 
Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2008-11-23 08:16:55

I saw a man standing on a street corner yesterday. Busy intersection. Holding a sign that said “will work for food.”

My first such siting. But I expect it won’t be the last. How sad…

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 08:24:42

42nd Street - “Tell me off for $2.00″

Comment by Martin Gale
2008-11-23 17:13:18

Arguments: 5 pounds

“Yes, I’d like to have an argument please…”

 
Comment by Martin Gale
 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 08:27:04

Where was this?

Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2008-11-23 08:33:03

Oshkosh, Wisconsin…

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2008-11-23 08:37:27

He expects his employer to do his shopping for him? Ask him if he will take cash instead.

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:46:52

” I have always depended on the kindness of strangers.”

 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-11-23 09:01:17

A few years ago, in the FL Panhandle, a gentleman had the very same sign.

My son and I were in the car, leaving the shopping center.

I rolled down the window and handed him a ten.

Later in the week, his picture was in the paper — seems the gentleman (ahem)liberated some kind souls who took him home for chores, of their possessions.

They lost stuff, and were alive to testify.

Be careful out there!

Leigh

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 09:21:44

This was my first thought too but us city folk are long known for our cynical view of human life.

Comment by jimbo
2008-11-23 10:40:50

Re: The panhandlers. About six weeks ago, I was in my local mini-mart, picking up cream for coffee, couple of papers; there were four or five other patrons about my age, waiting to pay for similar items. A semi-homeless woman, whom I’ve seen walking the streets around some type of nearby half-way house, approached me and asked for a dollar. I made a little scene, as the other patrons averted their eyes, looking at their shoes, etc. Said to the woman, “With all the other people here, why did you ask me? Why don’t you try asking a liberal?” Pakistani owner shooed the woman away. Other patrons still wouldn’t look at me; just wanted to get out of there. Geez, couldn’t the woman see that one of my papers was a New York Post?

I like to think I’m as compassionate as the next person, but hitting me up for a buck to buy smokes even before I’ve downed my necessary three to four cups of joe just rubs me the wrong way.

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Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2008-11-23 11:14:49

It is funny how we react when we are asked before someone takes our money (with nothing in return).

Funny, how most Americans’ eyes glaze over and they pretend not to understand, when the Federal Reserve or Treasury, or FDIC does the same thing without asking. In fact, I think the whole idea that our institutions of government are now actively engaged in robbing us of money, in order to take care of their more priveleged patrons, seems so Un-American that it just does not register at all with most Americans.

Of course, it helps when they put forward respected investors such as Warren Buffett, to tell us that in the long run the U.S. will make money and not lose, when this or that bailout package is put forth…

 
Comment by ecofeco
2008-11-23 14:43:42

You think they’re robbing us?

No way!

 
Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-23 14:50:36

My theory on panhandling, is ie: on the subway, you have to either sing, play an instrument, dance, or tell a poem or something like a good short story for money.Don’t just stand there and beg. Show some talent. Now that doesn’t go for the real homeless/ill folks. I know it sounds trite..just can’t help it.
I say ‘hello’ nicely, and a good howdydo and I am off. Tried feeding them a few times to find they aren’t there when I come out with real food.

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-23 16:41:36

Tried feeding them a few times to find they aren’t there when I come out with real food.

Exactly. I will help anyone with real needs and/or will entertain me. Will not throw money at a problem just so I can feel good (or at least not bothered) for 30 seconds while they wander way to slink further into the depths of their addiction.

 
 
 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-11-23 14:00:35

My first such siting. But I expect it won’t be the last.

Its rather common here in “prosperous” Larimer County. Has been common for years, especially on 1-25 off ramps.

Comment by BanteringBear
2008-11-23 18:36:51

I seem to run into a lot of beggars near highway entrance/exit ramps, too. I’ve been hit up by numerous people for gasoline. I ALWAYS say no. There is no way in hell I’m going to pay for gasoline for somebody who has no business owning a car, much less driving it. Some of these people are brazen, too. When they get a firm no from me, they can develop an attitude. As a guy, I’m not intimidated, but I have no doubt that many of them are opportunists who are a danger to women, children, and the easily preyed upon.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 15:26:38

I’ve seen this sign at certain intersections in San Francisco over the years.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 08:25:30

1989: Fall of Communism

2009: Fall of Consumerism
======================

Consumerism replaced Communism, but what replaces Consumerism?

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 08:34:46

United States
Spending and the economy
The end of the affair

Nov 20th 2008 | WASHINGTON, DC
From The Economist print edition
America’s return to thrift presages a long and deep recession

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-11-23 08:42:50

Cashism?

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 08:49:50

I think you meant Crashism.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 09:37:35

Rope-A-Dopeconomy

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Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 08:48:22

“Consumerism replaced Communism, but what replaces Consumerism?”

Communism

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 08:48:47

“We rob banks.”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 09:33:41

The banks are too busy robbing themselves.

It’s quite impressive in its own magnificent way — first Ponzi scheme where they decided to fleece themselves.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:47:09

“Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!”

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Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 10:55:26

Aha!!!
Found it :-)
http://www.filmsite.org/moments00.html
-
(You’re cheating!)

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 12:17:40

“Badges? We aint got no badges! We dont need no badges! I dont have to show you any stinking badges!”

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 16:28:34

“What the h*ll kinda cop are you?”

“You know what I am? I’m your worst f-cken’ nightmare, man. I’m a ni**er with a badge, that mean I got permission to kick your f-ckin’ ass whenever I feel like it.”

 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 17:07:59

“They call me Mr. Tibbs.”

 
 
 
 
Comment by Left LA
2008-11-23 09:34:22

F-ing poorism?

 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-11-23 09:46:24

Communion?

Ha.

Leigh ;)

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 09:51:30

Cashistism?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 08:30:29

Sounds like either Citigroup will need to be rescued, or else the markets will have to face another Lehman-style volatility tsunami. The question which puzzles me the most is why they can’t just let private investors buy pieces of Citigroup until it is no longer too-big-to-rescue?

Business
Frantic effort to prop up global titan
4:00AM Monday Nov 24, 2008
People outside Citigroup headquarters on Park Ave. Photo / AP

Citigroup executives today will continue working with Wall St regulators and American Treasury officers to shore up the stricken financial giant and prevent fallout from hitting global markets this week.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 09:15:02

Break it up and liquidate it.

Comment by scdave
2008-11-23 10:42:52

Yep….

 
 
Comment by Chip
2008-11-23 15:03:38

Why don’t they get rid of Pandit, for a start? Smith Barney’s not for sale? Why not?

 
 
Comment by Lost in California
2008-11-23 09:03:07

sltrib dot com

Anti-Federal Reserve rally attracts more than 100

The Salt Lake Tribune

Diana Jorgensen knows that U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, a Texas Republican and former presidential candidate, might seem “kooky” to some people because of his political opinons. But, when it comes to his idea of repealing the Federal Reserve Act, she agrees “this is a valid, good idea.”
“[The Federal Reserve system] is playing with a lot of people’s lives,” said Jorgensen, a 30-year-old Salt Lake City mom and college student. “They’re stealing from us.”
On Saturday afternoon, Jorgensen, along with more than 100 people, including children, rallied in support of Paul’s legislation to abolish the Federal Reserve. The crowd filled a sidewalk in front of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco at the corner of 100 South and State Street in Salt Lake City.
The event was one of about 40 similar rallies scheduled Saturday nationwide, including New York City, Los Angeles, Miami and El Paso, Texas. In June 2007, Paul introduced the Federal Reserve Board Abolition Act (H.R. 2755) to abolish the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System and each federal reserve bank. It was referred to the House Committee on Financial Services.
Many Utah supporters learned about the rallies through a Web site called http://www.endthefed.us. (The site says that on Nov. 22, 1910, a group of bankers met to create what is now the Federal Reserve System.)
Utah groups at the rally included the Utah Minuteman Project and Campaign for Liberty.
Ben Nilson, a 28-year-old
Advertisement
corporate salesman, drove about 90 miles from Logan to lend his support. He and others believe many of the country’s problems, especially the ongoing economic crisis, stem from not following the Constitution and implementing the Federal Reserve System.
“I’m hoping simply that this [rally] awakens people to what’s happening,” Nilson said. “People don’t know [the constitution] is being abused.
Under a bright sky and bundled in coats, protesters stood holding homemade signs that read “Save the Ink! Abolish the Fed!,” “Support H.R. 2755″ and “1913 Screw Job,” referring to the year the Federal Reserve Act became law.
Chaunce Shrewsbury, an 18-year-old Salt Lake City resident, said he started studying about the system a year ago when he learned about Paul’s presidential platform. He hopes lawmakers consider H.R. 2755.
“I care about the future of America,” he said.

Comment by NYCityBoy
2008-11-23 09:22:15

This was going on as their was a pro Federal Reserve rally on the HBB.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:41:32

“Gentlemen, we cant fight in here. This is the war room!”

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2008-11-23 09:10:00

It is understood that the Federal Reserve and the US Treasury have now approached all the major US banks – including Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs – to ask whether they would be willing to support Citigroup in the unlikely event of its collapse.

A worst-case scenario for Citigroup would involve some form of government guarantee of deposits, or a wholesale government takeover – most likely through a conservatorship similar to that undertaken with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage lenders, earlier this year.

Telegraph

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:44:42

“Take yer stinkin paws off me you damn dirty ape!”

 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2008-11-23 12:38:16

Keeping the most infected, bacterial laden portions of the road kill for the taxpayers’ freezer.

 
Comment by Kim
2008-11-23 15:24:43

“Sachs and the Citi” - to quote Rick Santelli

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-23 16:44:05

If it was unlikely, why are they even talking about it? *sigh* (You don’t talk about a sound banking system either…)

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 09:25:40

Fab4Ever…

For the benefit of money kiting
There will be a show tonight of trampling
The Henry Paulsons will all be there
Late of Goldman Sachs Fare - what a scene!
Over man and horses hoops and garters
Lastly through a hogshead of real fire!
In this way the 401k will be challenged by the world!

The celebrated 401K
performs defeat on Sunday at Bernankegate
The Henry Paulsons will dance and sing
As money kiting goes about the ring - don’t be late!
Messrs. B. and H. assure the public
Their production will be second to none
And of course Henry The Horse dances default!

The lend begins at ten to six
When Mr. B. performs his tricks without a sound
And Mr. H. will demonstrate
Ten resets he’ll undertake on solid ground
We’ve been some days in preparation
A splendid time is guaranteed for all
And tonight money kiting is topping the bill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGUB9Zc2Yos

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2008-11-23 09:40:26

Nov. 23 (Bloomberg) — Congress will send President-elect Barack Obama an economic stimulus package the day he takes office Jan. 20, two Democratic lawmakers said today.

Senator Charles Schumer of New York told ABC “This Week” today the package will be between $500 billion and $700 billion.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 09:42:59

“We’ll here’s another nice mess you’ve gotten me into.”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 20:53:44

Glad to hear the money tree is still thriving, as OBone will need it.

 
 
Comment by Ernest
2008-11-23 09:50:51

The Austrians Were Right
November 20, 2008

Madame Speaker, many Americans are hoping the new administration will solve the economic problems we face. That’s not likely to happen, because the economic advisors to the new President have no more understanding of how to get us out of this mess than previous administrations and Congresses understood how the crisis was brought about in the first place.

Except for a rare few, Members of Congress are unaware of Austrian Free Market economics. For the last 80 years, the legislative, judiciary and executive branches of our government have been totally influenced by Keynesian economics. If they had had any understanding of the Austrian economic explanation of the business cycle, they would have never permitted the dangerous bubbles that always lead to painful corrections.

Today, a major economic crisis is unfolding. New government programs are started daily, and future plans are being made for even more. All are based on the belief that we’re in this mess because free-market capitalism and sound money failed. The obsession is with more spending, bailouts of bad investments, more debt, and further dollar debasement. Many are saying we need an international answer to our problems with the establishment of a world central bank and a single fiat reserve currency. These suggestions are merely more of the same policies that created our mess and are doomed to fail.

At least 90% of the cause for the financial crisis can be laid at the doorstep of the Federal Reserve. It is the manipulation of credit, the money supply, and interest rates that caused the various bubbles to form. Congress added fuel to the fire by various programs and institutions like the Community Reinvestment Act, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, FDIC, and HUD mandates, which were all backed up by aggressive court rulings.

The Fed has now doled out close to $2 trillion in subsidized loans to troubled banks and other financial institutions. The Federal Reserve and Treasury constantly brag about the need for “transparency” and “oversight,” but it’s all just talk — they want none of it. They want secrecy while the privileged are rescued at the expense of the middle class.

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/tx14_paul/statement_11_20_08.shtml

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 10:43:03

“As God is my witness, I’ll never be hungry again.”

Comment by Muir
2008-11-23 11:42:58

Not with 2 Trillion, Scarlett, your not!

 
 
Comment by Ernest
2008-11-23 10:58:13

“”The choice we face is ominous: We either accept world-wide authoritarian government holding together a flawed system, OR we restore the principles of the Constitution, limit government power, restore commodity money without a Federal Reserve system, reject world government, and promote the cause of peace by protecting liberty equally for all persons. Freedom is the answer.”"

What a nut job! Who is this radical madman? Such sacrilegious notions and suggestions.

Comment by ecofeco
2008-11-23 14:52:59

That man is just treason talking. Who would dare such a thing?

Restore the principles of the Constitution? Is he mad?!

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 17:06:28

“What we’ve got here is a failure to communicate.”

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Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-11-23 10:00:34

Hey FPSS, I’ve got a guess for why you’re expecting 1983 price-levels. Is that when the stock market started surging to unsustainable levels? In other words, when this increasing-leverage-cycle began.

Looking at the long-term S&P-to-GDP curve, there are LONG periods when it is relatively flat in the troughs (40-55, 73-83), and 83 is the last time it started going through the roof.

Think we’ll go back down to 1983 levels for the S&P as well (e.g. 40% of GDP)?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 10:16:15

Yeah, but why? ;-)

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-11-23 12:01:05

My personal theory is that de-leveraging, once it has begun in earnest, cannot be stopped because it feeds itself.

It’s like an avalanche—-once all that pent-up potential-energy starts moving, there is no stopping it short of the bottom of the slope.

My guess is that the bottom of the slope is at approximately 40% of GDP.

What’s your theory?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 15:44:13

But this doesn’t explain why it has to go back to 1983 rather than say 1978 or 1997.

D-. Try again.

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Comment by crazy frog
2008-11-23 13:10:40

FED TO LET BANKS SERVE AS DISCOUNT BROKERS
August 11, 1983, Thursday
In yet another crack in the barriers separating the banking and securities industries, the Federal Reserve Board today added brokerage services to the list of activities that bank holding companies may engage in.
—————————————————–
FPSS, is it this that you have in mind?

 
Comment by exeter
2008-11-23 15:11:16

Because 1981-83 is when we headed down the path of a failed economic theory called supply side, better known as reaganomics.

How much more evidence does a naysayer need?

Comment by CA renter
2008-11-23 18:15:35

Not sure if it’s what FPSS was looking for, but I certainly agree with you exeter! :)

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 19:00:17

There are far better, more fundamental reasons.

You people keep arguing proximate causes rather than fundamental ones.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-11-23 19:13:13

Uncle P.,

Stop testing and explain please.

Thanks

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 20:50:22

Socratic method, sport.

Answers are no fun. The process is.

Besides you have plenty of time to buy a house, etc. so why not exercise those brain cells? ;-)

 
Comment by crazy frog
2008-11-23 22:05:01

FPSS, another guess:
1982 - Garn-St.Germain Depository Institutions Act authorized money market accounts and expanded thrifts’ lending powers.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-24 06:22:54

1982 was the first year I gave Wall St an infusion of 401 money.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-24 07:34:05

1982 was the start of the biggest bull market of our lifetime.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Paul in Florida
2008-11-23 14:34:39

Right, this was a great chart in Barron’s which completely debunked the thesis of their article in which they tried to argue that the market was cheap at 59% of GDP. There is great historical precedent for 40% of GDP following bad recessions, with little or no increase in S&P value/GDP for 10 years hence. In fact, although 59% is below the historical MEAN, it actually appears to be above the yearly MEDIAN, since the blowoffs to the top distort the averages to the high side. It is almost impossible to look at this chart and be constructive on the stock market long-term.

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB122732177515750213.html?mod=b_hps_9_0001_b_this_weeks_magazine_home_left

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-11-23 18:12:10

Yep, GREAT chart… It made a believer out of me. 1983 here we come!

 
Comment by packman
2008-11-23 19:19:37

Yep.

Also the current/recent GDP is also very much still housing-bubble-based - i.e. fed in high percentage by home equity extraction. Now that equity extraction is plummeting, so will GDP. So even if stock prices remain at 59% of GDP, they’ll still continue downward.

 
Comment by packman
2008-11-23 19:45:20

Not only that - but IMO comparison with historical averages is relatively meaningless with such a short timeframe. 78 years is not a very long time - it’s barely even one lifetime. When you have huge worldwide economic and political events that have effects that are felt for 10 years or more in there:

- Great Depression
- WW2
- Cold War / Spread and contraction of communism

plus tons of other economically-changing events (computers/internet, 9/11 and Iraq, 60’s/70’s social revolution, etc.)

Then 78 years is not a very long period to extract a meaningful proper average value.

 
 
 
Comment by fries with that?
2008-11-23 10:02:36

This just in from Atlanta. It seems the Georgia State School Superintendent and her husband have filed for bankruptcy due to the husband’s failed homebuilding business. This, in spite of the fact the Superintendent won $1 million on, “Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?”

It seems she still wants to go through with a plan to donate her game show winnings to charity. Wonder what her family’s creditors and the bankruptcy judge will have to say about that?

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 10:45:24

“Aticca! Attica !!”

 
Comment by Chip
2008-11-23 15:19:06

One would think they’d have made the donations before filing for bankruptcy. So… if the bankruptcy freezes the assets and distributes them to pay down the debts, is the residual liability greatly decreased, or is there no residual liability?

 
Comment by Captain Credit Crunch
2008-11-23 16:49:08

Probably wants to donate it so that she can get back her marginal tax rate on the donation next year, after the bankruptcy. Are expected tax returns counted as an asset in bankruptcy?

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2008-11-23 10:03:11
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 10:46:56

“Mother of mercy, is this the end of Rico?”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 11:29:13

We’ve already apparently been in a structural bear market since at least 2000. When does his time horizon begin?

Comment by Kim
2008-11-23 15:27:57

“When does his time horizon begin?”

Its “her” time horizon.

 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2008-11-23 10:23:29

Tried posting Louise Yamada Bloomberg video. Snagged by filter. Says structural bear market lasting 13 years; S&P could go to 600; markets need several years to repair.

Comment by mrktMaven
2008-11-23 10:25:29

Nevermind. It posted. Watch.

 
Comment by Chip
2008-11-23 15:30:51

Impressive clip. She didn’t say that the S&P couldn’t go lower than 600 - seems like she waffled on that one. 500 can’t be impossible, can it?

Comment by CA renter
2008-11-24 01:45:28

IIRC, she said 400-600 the other day, maybe lower.

 
 
 
Comment by uptick
2008-11-23 10:41:01

Mendocino coast needs 56+ million dollars…

http://tinyurl.com/68nbnk

…for these 40 or so houses to sell.

There are no jobs in these boonies locations, or not many, yet asking prices are more than in big cities in California. Just continues to amaze me.

Comment by Anthony
2008-11-23 11:33:02

That is exactly what I’ve been saying. Here in Humboldt county, California, housing prices have barely dropped, and plenty of washed-up southern Californians keep coming here to buy; local Realtors/speculators keep buying. I don’t get it. I could live in San Diego, with its beautiful weather, access to transportation and more jobs, for less money.

Comment by BanteringBear
2008-11-23 14:28:03

It’s going to crater, just give it time.

 
Comment by CA renter
2008-11-24 01:47:22

The better parts of San Diego haven’t cratered either; just the lower-end which has dropped anywhere from 30-60%.

The higher-end areas are showing cracks, and are down about 10-15%. Based on some anecdotal information, I’m thinking this is going to whoosh down over the next 12-24 months.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-23 11:22:31

Can’t get it up anymore?

Try:

Lie-agra

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 12:19:59

“I’ll have what shes having.”

 
 
Comment by Mormon_Tea
2008-11-23 12:32:41

The man who predicted the 1987 stock market crash and the fall of the Soviet Union is now forecasting revolution in America, food riots and tax rebellions - all within four years, while cautioning that putting food on the table will be a more pressing concern than buying Christmas gifts by 2012.
http://www.infowars.com/?p=5938

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 13:37:04

“Open the pod bay doors, HAL”

 
Comment by In Colorado
2008-11-23 14:04:57

<i.“America’s going to go through a transition the likes of which no one is prepared for,” said Celente, noting that people’s refusal to acknowledge that America was even in a recession highlights how big a problem denial is in being ready for the true scale of the crisis.

FWIW, its mostly only the spin doctors who are in “denial”. Most people I know acknowledge that there is a recession, and a humdinder of one at that. Thousands of customer free car dealerships can’t be wrong!

Comment by desertdweller
2008-11-23 15:07:02

Yesterday, 4pm -7pm no one, not a soul on the Nissan lot nor the huge mega TOY Audi +++lots. Radio station was there all day long promoting and told us, no one had come in since around 2pm. Not a soul. YIKES>
Palm Springs.

Plus on the news last night, the reporters are stating that “oh goody it is getting cooler now and the holiday is here, so the economy which had tanked in Palm Springs, will revive”.
To which I replied, COOLER? that is what it takes now. My ’snowbird’ neighbors said hello yesterday and were complaining that it was so hot..82 degrees. My question is this…what the hell do you come down here for 1- to get away from your cold weather and 2- to get in a warmer clime?
I don’t f.g get it. Sheesh.

 
Comment by hd74man
2008-11-23 15:32:33

RE: And the crime is going to be a lot worse than it was before because in the last 1929 Depression, people’s minds weren’t wrecked on all these modern drugs – over-the-counter drugs, or crystal meth or whatever it might be. So, you have a huge underclass of very desperate people with their minds chemically blown beyond anybody’s comprehension.”

This is a good time for communities to initiate program’s that would enable the voluntary surrendering of their law abiding constitutent’s firearms to the local police departments to lessen the chance of future violence between those who are future godless hoarders and those who are merely the victims of an uncaring society.

Trust those in public service who wear badges!

 
 
Comment by what-me-worry?
2008-11-23 14:34:05

There won’t be any food riots until Americans can’t buy chips and dip at the gas station food mart. National obesity would have to be rolled back to pre-1929 levels. And if tax rebellions are in our future–which is a presumption that the public at large feels some motivation for political participation–that can only be a sign of good times to come.

Comment by ButImNotDeadYet
2008-11-23 15:13:05

Obesity…

That’s one thing we have going for us, versus the 1929-era Depressionites. An epidemic of obesity in our country right now, which was nature’s way of telling everyone that “there’s now way the good times are going to last.”

In the Roaring 20’s, skinny, flat-chested girls were all the rage. Today we have Queen Latifah, and divisions of silicone-enhanced trophy-wives.

Comment by oskar
2008-11-23 16:56:44

So people will be chewing their own fat, so to speak. Does this mean we should short food companies that produce empty caloried goods? Pepsi and Coke are going to be the biggest losers when all this is said and done.

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 19:00:40

‘So people will be chewing their own fat, so to speak.’

No, I’m going to be chewing my neighbor’s fat. I happen to be a skinny girl, and that is because I have the metabolism of a hummingbird on meth. (It’s the ADD diet plan.) My whole pantry jammed full of food will prolly last me about a week. Therefore, I’ve already made a list of who I’ll eat first.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 19:06:58

I’m gonna go with Vance first, as he is fattest plus he deserves it, that pompous Republican. Then the lovely Penny, his wife, who is also rather plump and nearly as irritating. After that, maybe the elusive Lynch’s. No one will miss THEM. Then, hmmm….Mrs. Zaneiwski! Nice white meat there…
Subsequently it’ll just be a free-for-all, with me eatin’ whomever I can catch. Since I can run fast, and they’s all a bunch of venerable hermits, ‘whomever I can catch’ covers everybody. Luckily for me, I will have mushrooms as well, for a side dish, as this season has been very good so far.

 
Comment by oskar
2008-11-23 21:03:31

What type of red wine will you be consuming with your meal? You need something to break down that fatty meat. I suggest a nice pinot noir…

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 21:34:44

You got smartness on your side, clearly.

 
 
Comment by what-me-worry?
2008-11-23 19:50:28

If my trophy wife really loved me, she’d let me hide my American Eagles in her enhancements. I’d tell her, “Droopy–darling–he who has the gold makes the rules.”

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Comment by exeter
2008-11-23 15:05:11

Starvation? Empty cupboards? Sounds like a conservatives dreamdate.

Comment by what-me-worry?
2008-11-23 19:33:40

It’s the last Cheeto, mon cheri. I want YOU to have it.

 
 
 
Comment by Zhang Fei
2008-11-23 13:01:39

Citibank may be seeing withdrawals from worried depositors. This is an e-mail it’s been sending out:

Good news! Citibank is participating in the FDIC’s Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program. Through December 31, 2009, all of your non-interest and interest bearing checking deposit account balances are fully guaranteed by the FDIC for the entire amount in your account. *

And as a reminder, in October the FDIC increased the amount of insurance on eligible savings accounts — such as savings, market rate, money market accounts, club and holiday accounts, and certificates of deposits — from $100,000 to $250,000 through December 31, 2009.**

To learn more about FDIC insurance, visit the agency’s web site at http://www.fdic.gov or call a Citibank representative at 1-800-374-9700. You may also call the FDIC at 877-ASKFDIC (877-275-3342) or TDD 800-925-4618.

* Coverage under the Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program is in addition to and separate from the coverage available under the FDIC’s general deposit insurance rules.

** The deposit insurance coverage limits refer to the total of all deposits that an account holder (or account holders) has at each FDIC-insured bank.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 13:38:38

“Is it safe?”

Comment by Michael Viking
2008-11-23 14:16:14

“No. You better be careful.”

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 14:27:24

“Lighten up, Francis.”

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Comment by Ernest
2008-11-23 15:13:42

Thousands pick up free vegetables on Colo. farm

PLATTEVILLE, Colo. - A farm couple got a huge surprise when they opened their fields to anyone who wanted to pick up free vegetables left over after the harvest - 40,000 people showed up. Joe and Chris Miller’s fields were picked so clean Saturday that a second day of gleaning - the ancient practice of picking up leftover food in farm fields - was canceled Sunday.

“Overwhelmed is putting it mildly,” Chris Miller said. “People obviously need food.”

She said she expected 5,000 to 10,000 people would show up Saturday to collect free potatoes, carrots and leeks. Instead, an estimated 11,000 vehicles snaked around cornfields and backed up more than two miles. About 30 acres of the 600-acre farm 37 miles north of Denver became a parking lot.

Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-23 16:50:52

“Overwhelmed is putting it mildly,” Chris Miller said. “People obviously need food.”

Let me fix it: “People obviously need freefood.”

I have no idea where I became this cynical.

Also, call me crazy, but they probably wasted a ton of money on gas to pick up vegetables that worth less than a dollar a pound. Me thinks that the actual hungry were stuck on the streets of Denver.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 19:02:23

Seriously.

Potatoes, carrots and leeks?

These are hardly the priciest vegetables!

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 19:08:16

Hey fasty? Have a potato.
hahahaha!

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 19:18:33

LOL

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Paul in Florida
2008-11-23 15:18:20

Came across this in The People’s Daily (English):

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90884/6538651.html

Although the yuan is appreciating against the dollar and other currencies, the lack of full convertibility along with the huge Chinese dollar reserve holding are a big factor in helping to prop up the dollar.

China is in a powerful but difficult position. In the long run, it will surely go to a full floating exchange rate AND it probably would like to increase its gold reserves/reduce its dollar holdings. It knows that if it does either now that both its domestic level of employment and the world economy could suffer, and it would also cause the dollar to fall, damaging the value of its reserve position. But if there is an inflationary catastrophe in the dollar before it acts, it will be severely damaged.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 17:02:49

“It’s alive, its ALIVE!”

 
 
Comment by satan
2008-11-23 15:32:11

Ok, so far Citi has consumed over 75 B of private equity, 25 B of government infusions and god knows how many billions of temporary Fed financing. On the top of that they will now get 100 B. For 200B of capital, you could start a new citigroup (2 Trillion) with adequate capital margins and fractional reserves.

This is insanity!!!

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 15:42:37

Time to pass some more trash to the U.S. taxpayer?

Comment by satan
2008-11-23 16:21:21

I am afraid that no one has anything of value and it is *all* trash.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 18:02:23

“We’ll just float away with the rest of the garbage.”

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Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-23 17:02:13

I’m thinking they are going to stop giving me rebates on my credit card. That $300 a year should help.

 
Comment by Paul in Florida
2008-11-23 17:10:45

“Everyone knows saving Citigroup is important to saving the economy, but no one knows what to do,” said one person close to the firm.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 19:36:59

“Everyone knows that removing the stuck potato up your behind is good for the economy, but no one knows what to do,” said one person close to the firm.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 16:01:01

Have you wondered why stocks have recently been continuously tanking? Look no further…

Hedge Funds Reduce Stock Holdings
By Jeff Kearns
Bloomberg News
Sunday, November 23, 2008; Page F02

Hedge funds cut stock holdings by almost two-thirds from a year ago, signaling that they are less willing to take risks amid tighter credit and almost $1 trillion in write-downs and losses, Goldman Sachs Group said.

Net holdings of equities decreased to 17 percent from 47 percent a year ago, David Kostin, who leads Goldman’s New York-based portfolio strategy team, wrote in a note.

“Hedge funds may have returned closer to their roots as ‘hedged’ investors, less dependent on market direction to produce returns, migrated away from the levered long strategies that many funds pursued during the upward-trending market of 2002 to 2006,” Kostin said.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 17:00:18

“Houston, we have a problem.”

 
Comment by Michael Viking
2008-11-23 18:23:15

I’ve been semi-harping on this, but I still feel like all the hedgefunds unwinding is driving the market down. When they’re done, the market will go back up and then slowly trickle down as the positive feedback loop continues to eat at itself:
lower earnings -> layoffs -> more unemployed -> less purchasing -> lower earnings. All the way to gawd knows what. It ain’t gonna be pretty.

 
 
Comment by Ernest
2008-11-23 16:15:27

PLATTEVILLE, Colo. - A farm couple got a huge surprise when
they opened their fields to anyone who wanted to pick up
free vegetables left over after the harvest - 40,000 people
showed up. Joe and Chris Miller’s fields were picked so
clean Saturday that a second day of gleaning - the ancient
practice of picking up leftover food in farm fields - was
canceled Sunday

“Overwhelmed is putting it mildly,” Chris Miller said.
“People obviously need food.”

She said she expected 5,000 to 10,000 people would show up
Saturday to collect free potatoes, carrots and leeks.
Instead, an estimated 11,000 vehicles snaked around
cornfields and backed up more than two miles. About 30 acres
of the 600-acre farm 37 miles north of Denver became a
parking lot.

Some people parked their cars along two nearby highways to
take to the field with sacks, wagons and barrels.

“Everybody is so depressed about the economy,” said Sandra
Justice of Greeley, who works at a technology company. “This
was a pure party. Everybody having a a great time getting
something for free.”

Comment by oskar
2008-11-23 16:49:58

Potato and leek soup, a household favorite. I wonder how much these people used in gas to get there and back. Potatoes aren’t exactly expensive and carrots are a dime a dozen, literally.

Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2008-11-23 18:20:59

Totally agree; 37 miles one way, plus some time stuck in the 2mile backup would burn a fair bit of gas. In an average car (23mpg), it sounds like they spent about $9 to get $5 of groceries. Potatoes are real cheap if you buy a big bag and don’t need the fancy varieties.

 
 
Comment by clue
2008-11-23 16:58:36

“Soylent Green is People!”

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 16:19:23

Naomi Klein, author of The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, has described the handling of the bailout as “borderline criminal” because of this and other problems. Klein spoke to Amy Goodman of Democracy Now! on Monday to explain her accusations.

“We were all reassured that there was going to be transparency, accountability, legality,” Klein stated. “But now we’re finding out that, in fact, Henry Paulson has achieved his original goal by stealth, because there is no accountability, and lawmakers are very hesitant to challenge this. … Essentially, what the Bush administration has done is said, ‘We dare you to challenge us and be responsible for the Great Depression.’”

Klein sees three areas of borderline illegality. The first is that rather than being used to get banks lending again, the bailout money “is instead going to bonuses, is instead going to dividends, going to salaries, going to mergers.”

The second is that, without Congressional authorization, “the Treasury Department pushed through a tax windfall for the banks, a piece of legislation that allows the banks to save a huge amount of money when they merge with each other. And the estimate is that this represents a loss of $140 billion worth of tax revenue for the US government.”

The third problem, which dwarfs the $700 billion bailout itself, is that “there’s another $2 trillion that’s been handed out by the Federal Reserve in emergency loans to financial institutions, to banks, that actually we don’t really know who they’re handing the money out to, because, apparently, it’s a secret.”

“If the Fed has accepted distressed assets as collateral in exchange for these loans,” stated Klein, “there’s a very good chance the taxpayers aren’t going to be getting this money back. … So that’s why we’re calling this the ‘trillion-dollar crime scene’ or the ‘multi-trillion-dollar crime scene.’”

Klein argued that Congress should be challenging violations of the bailout legislation, but instead “what they’re saying is, we can’t afford to enforce the law … that somehow, because there’s an economic crisis, legality is a luxury that Congress can’t afford.”

“I’m quite concerned,” Klein stated, “that what we’re seeing from Obama’s team is an accepting of this logic that they need to give the market what it wants, which is continuity, smooth transition, which is really just code for more of the same. … I think we should question all of it. Across the board, I think the assumptions are faulty.”

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 16:57:14

“There’s no place like home.”

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-23 19:12:46

I’m coming to a conclusion here, and that is: you watch a lot of movies, Mr. Clue.
And I approve of that. Later tonight I’m going to watch ‘Tropic Thunder’ again, because I watched it a few days ago and just laughed my bum off.

“You never go full retard, man!”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 20:48:20

vozzie (= clue) watches a lot of movies ’cause mrs. vozzie ain’t puttin’ out.

He had to resort to a euro-shopping trip (gasp!) to get a shot at the goods.

Ain’t that true, sport? :-D

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Comment by LongIslandLost
2008-11-24 05:06:56

Does that work? Maybe I should try it. Cheaper than a house …

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-11-23 16:47:47

“The horror…the horror.”

“Bernanke says he erred in gauging mortgage fallout”

http://www.salon.com/wires/ap/business/2008/11/23/D94KRSM80_bernanke_meltdown/index.html

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 17:40:19

“You cant handle the truth!”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 18:28:38

You have to admire intellectual honesty when you see it.

“I and others were mistaken early on in saying that the subprime crisis would be contained,” Bernanke said in an article in the Dec. 1 issue of The New Yorker magazine.

“The causal relationship between the housing problem and the broad financial system was very complex and difficult to predict,” he said in the piece titled “Anatomy of a Meltdown.”

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 19:04:28

Revisionist history.

They are trying to polish the turd that is their reputation.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 20:48:50

FPSS —

Are you of the opinion that they saw it all along and tried to hide the truth from the sheeple, or did they honestly miss the inevitable collapse until the moment it buried them? I personally can never judge these things looking in from the outside…

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 20:53:41

I have real trouble seeing that Paulson didn’t get it.

I can see Bernanke being bamboozled because he’s never traded a derivative in his life.

C’mon, man, it’s called cost of capital. This is not like some super-duper complex argument we’re trotting out here.

If cost-of-capital > daily return and you’re rolling over the debt weekly or whatever, you’re gonna die. Is this so hard to understand?

Either they’re lying or incompetent. It hardly matters which.

 
Comment by CA renter
2008-11-24 02:45:10

Absolutely, FPSS.

There is no way we here at the HBB saw all this coming **years** ago, but the Almighty Financiers were unable to comprehend the consequences of the credit bubble.

No way. Their hands are dripping with blood, and they should be held accountable…especially Greenspan.

 
 
 
Comment by Paul in Florida
2008-11-23 19:15:02

It’s also very difficult to “predict” that your house or retirement program is going to lose 50% of its value, or that you are going to achieve a marked reduction in income, or that your wife/girlfriend is going to leave you, or that you’re losing your good health - too complex, much too complex - easier to just take a nice nap in those comfortable chairs at the Fed, nicer than the chairs at Princet . . . {snooze}

 
 
 
Comment by satan
2008-11-23 16:52:58

Repeat after me.. Stupidity is universal..
————-
Four Indian realtors lose $33 bn in 8 months: Forbes

Press Trust of India / New York November 21, 2008, 20:16 IST

Hit by the turmoil in equity and property markets, India’s four richest realtors have lost nearly $33 billion (over Rs 1,50,000 crore) since March this year, with the richest of them, K P Singh of DLF, alone accounting for about two-thirds of it, Forbes magazine said.

Listing out the losses suffered by richest property owners in Asia in the ongoing turmoil, in a new report Forbes has named DLF’s Singh, Unitech’s Ramesh Chandra, Chandru Raheja of Mumbai-based Raheja group and Housing Development & Infrastructure’s (HDIL) Rakesh Wadhawan among the eight realty barons from the region.

While Singh has lost $22.2 billion alone since March, Chandra has seen an erosion of about $8.6 billion in his fortune during the same period, when Raheja and Wadhawan have lost about $1.5 billion and $500 million, respectively.

In the latest list of India’s 40 richest people published by Forbes earlier this month, K P Singh was ranked at the eighth spot, while Chandru Raheja and Ramesh Chandra were placed at the 20th and 27th positions, respectively.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 17:47:35

“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans, and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?”

 
 
Comment by ann gogh
2008-11-23 19:13:47

Clue;
that was funny reading your little comments.

I just want to say I had my first regular weekend since summer turned into the new America. Where did the time go?
Looking forward to the “demolition team” propping up tomorrow.

Comment by clue
2008-11-23 19:37:31

“Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make.”

night all, I had a ball.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 20:58:48

I thought the toxic SIV superfund plan was supposed to form a holding pond to hold Citi’s troubled assets for an indefinite period of time. Is the new plan to force future generations of taxpayers to hold the toxic asset pool unhappily ever after?

Financial Times
Citi considers ‘bad bank’ plan
By Henny Sender and Greg Farrell in New York and Andrew Ward in Washington
Published: November 23 2008 20:37 | Last updated: November 23 2008 23:43

Citigroup is working on a plan to stabilise the bank that is expected to include transferring tens of billions of dollars in distressed assets to a government-owned vehicle for at least several years, people familiar with matter said on Sunday.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 21:15:58

Super-SIV met a silent death a long time ago.

This is like ressurecting the T*rd-that-Failed™.

Hallelujah, brother, and pass the bong!

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 21:39:58

Isn’t it funny how the proposal that basically was tabled months ago mysteriously reappears in a slightly modified form as a “new deal”?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 21:52:53

No, I fully embrace the sheepleness of the population.

It’s time to shear them raw.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 21:23:31

How much “free” insurance is Uncle Sam already providing at this point? Is anyone even bothering to keep track?

Wall Street Journal
* BUSINESS
* NOVEMBER 24, 2008

Bailout Talks Accelerate for Ailing Citigroup
Billions in Toxic Assets May Be Removed; New Phase for Government Bank Rescue
By DAVID ENRICH, CARRICK MOLLENKAMP, MATTHIAS RIEKER and DAMIAN PALETTA

The talks Sunday centered on ways for the government to protect Citigroup from its riskiest assets. Under the terms being discussed with top Treasury Department and Federal Reserve officials, Citigroup would agree to absorb losses, up to a set amount, on a predetermined pool of assets, people familiar with the matter said. The U.S. government would then take on any additional losses, these people said.

The plan would essentially put the government in the position of insuring a slice of Citigroup’s balance sheet.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 22:58:08

Look on the bright side. The Lehman failure was catastrophic, and hence not desirable to soon be relived.

Government unveils plan to rescue Citigroup
By JEANNINE AVERSA, AP Economics Writer – 40 mins ago

WASHINGTON – The government unveiled a bold plan Sunday to rescue troubled Citigroup, including taking a $20 billion stake in the firm as well as guaranteeing hundreds of billions of dollars in risky assets.

The action, announced jointly by the Treasury Department, the Federal Reserve and the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., is aimed at shoring up a huge financial institution whose collapse would wreak havoc on the already crippled financial system and the U.S. economy.

The sweeping plan is geared to stemming a crisis of confidence in the company, whose stocks has been hammered in the past week on worries about its financial health.

“With these transactions, the U.S. government is taking the actions necessary to strengthen the financial system and protect U.S. taxpayers and the U.S. economy,” the three agencies said in a statement issued Sunday night. “We will continue to use all of our resources to preserve the strength of our banking institutions, and promote the process of repair and recovery and to manage risks,” they said.

Comment by CA renter
2008-11-24 02:51:54

“With these transactions, the U.S. government is taking the actions necessary to strengthen the financial system and protect U.S. taxpayers and the U.S. economy,”

These scare tactics are getting old. How about we just guarantee bank deposits and let the rest fall…so we can verify that the end of Citi would mean “the end of the world as we know it”.

Anyone ever told that corporate bonds and other non-govt debt instruments were fail-safe?

 
Comment by CA renter
2008-11-24 02:55:10

“With these transactions, the U.S. government is taking the actions necessary to strengthen the financial system and protect U.S. taxpayers and the U.S. economy,”

“We will continue to use all of our resources to preserve the strength of our banking institutions, and promote the process of repair and recovery and to manage risks,” they said.

Would somebody please explain to me how taking on all the financial industry’s bad paper will somehow protect the taxpayers and save the economy? Wouldn’t it be best if we beat this credit bubble down as quickly and furiously as possible, so we can rebuild from the ground up? Propping up these assets is wasting precious resources and will turn a severe recession into a severe depression.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 21:13:55

By massive overbuilding of McMansions, this industry and its boosters burned the chair legs out from under their future prosperity. Now it is up to the taxpayers to respike the punchbowl in order to drive up home prices and encourage them to add more vacant homes to the extant glut.

Wall Street Journal
NOVEMBER 24, 2008
Builders Make Plea for Federal Aid
Critics Warn That Propping Up Housing Demand Will Only Prolong Market’s Woes
By NICK TIMIRAOS

Struggling U.S. auto makers left Washington empty-handed after weeks of pleading for a handout, but that hasn’t deterred home builders from stepping up to lobby Congress for help.

But any federal assistance would require policy makers to figure out how to stimulate demand for housing — the problem at the root of the global financial meltdown — without artificially propping up home values.

Some economists fear federal intervention to help homeowners may instead encourage more overbuilding. Above, unfinished homes in Carlsbad, Calif.

The builders’ lobby is ramping up its sales pitch for a $250 billion stimulus package called “Fix Housing First,” arguing that financial markets won’t recover until home prices stop falling. They are calling for a generous tax credit for home purchases and a federal subsidy that would lower a homeowner’s mortgage rate.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 21:18:09

How do you respike the bowl? The houses are already there.

Ain’t gonna be no respike to this particular bowl. Stop wasting your time thinking about it. Move on. There are larger issues to make money on. ;-)

 
Comment by DennisN
2008-11-24 00:20:49

It’s interesting to see how certain industries are unable to face the reality of changed circumstances. Sometimes an industry needs to change drastically in response to the news. For example, I worked as a EE in defense work back in the 1970s and 1980s. But any future job security was quickly lost with the collapse of the USSR - which after all was what that industry was trying to accomplish. I had to go learn a new skill and do something else.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 21:16:42

Wall Street Journal
NOVEMBER 24, 2008
Summers Offers Big-Picture Advice to Hedge Fund
By SCOTT PATTERSON

In 2006, Lawrence Summers resigned as president of Harvard University and took a position as a part-time managing director with D.E. Shaw Group, a New York hedge fund with a reputation as one of the most secretive trading outfits in the world.

D.E. Shaw is known for using sophisticated computer-based quantitative strategies to make money on fleeting movements in the stock and bond markets. The fund has been a top performer, returning 15% to 20% a year over the long term, and in two decades has grown into a global powerhouse. But like many funds, it has taken hits in the credit crisis.

The hedge fund has been embroiled in the credit crisis that has rocked Wall Street and the global economy. In August 2007, quantitative hedge funds suffered heavy losses, an early sign of trouble. People familiar with D.E. Shaw say its quantitative-trading strategies suffered large losses during the rout, though many recovered later in the year. The fund also weathered large losses during the financial crisis of 1998.

In March 2007, Lehman Brothers, the investment bank that filed for bankruptcy-court protection in September, purchased a 20% stake in D.E. Shaw. After Lehman’s collapse, D.E. Shaw, along with a number of other hedge funds not owned by Lehman, fought to retrieve assets held within the bank’s prime-brokerage units.

Earlier this year, D.E. Shaw launched a unit to invest in distressed asset-backed securities, such as subprime mortgages.

 
Comment by FP
2008-11-23 21:27:56

When do we start start hoarding canned food? Me thinks a gun purchase is on the horizon.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-11-23 21:33:52

Boom turns to gloom as crisis hits Dubai
Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:12am EST
By Thomas Atkins - Analysis

DUBAI (Reuters) - The seaside emirate of Dubai shifted into crisis mode this week as its breakneck building boom stalled, its lending bonanza evaporated and the government pondered wider steps to rescue banks.

Dubai — self-styled bling capital of the Middle East, nightclub hotspot for the teetotalling Gulf and home to the world’s tallest building and biggest mall — has gone pear-shaped.

“It’s gotten pretty ugly out there,” analysts at Nomura Investment Banking wrote in a note this week, describing Dubai’s property market as “a full-scale frenzy in which speculation went largely unchecked until it was very late.”

The result may be a new business model for the emirate, one based less on debt and speculation.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-23 21:36:29

I am sooooooooooooooooooo f*ckin’ lookin’ forward to Dubai being the Rockefeller Center + Pebble Beach combined of this particular cycle.

It’s gonna be epic, and I need to save my dollars for a quite a few of the best bottles of champagne for my Schadenfreude Spectacular™ party.

 
 
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