November 24, 2008

Falling Out Of A Bed That Gets Higher Every Day

The Herald Tribune reports from Florida. “Mark Brivik, a real estate investor who made a living buying, fixing up and selling houses on Longboat Key and other parts of Southwest Florida, has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection. Brivik distinguished himself from other investors during the past two decades by selling houses back and forth to business associates and companies he controlled or had a stake in. In one case, Brivik transferred a house at 549 Lane on Longboat Key back and forth between his corporations and business associates 12 times from 1995 to 2005 before it was finally foreclosed upon by First Priority in November 2007. In the process, Brivik and his partners increased their loans from $405,000 in 1996 to $1.4 million in 2002.”

“‘It’s a sign of the times,’ Brivik said during a brief telephone call this month. ‘A lot of people are filing for bankruptcy. It’s not something you want to do. It’s just something that’s happening.’”

“If the dominant image of the housing boom in Southwest Florida was a home in paradise, an emerging picture of its decline is of residents, out of work and forced from their homes, struggling to find shelter. James Lippincott has lived in Charlotte County for 32 years and had a job at a scrap parts shop until he was laid off in December. Now he sleeps on the floor of a house in foreclosure in North Port. He watched the former resident lock up and figured out how to break in.”

“He leaves in the mornings before 7 to avoid being seen by neighbors. ‘They kept promising my job back when things turned back around but it never came back,’ Lippincott said.”

The St Petersburg Times. “More than 22,700 jobs have been lost since September 2007 in the Tampa Bay area, the hardest-hit area in the state. Annie Lesso lives in a two-story house in the Uptown neighborhood with hardwood floors and a $1,200 mortgage. Earlier this year, she paid off her credit cards and ripped them up.”

Still, even without credit card debt, Lesso is struggling. The sacrifices are starting to pile up. Lesso has sent out nearly 200 resumes. She hasn’t heard back from anyone. ‘ve had two months with nothing,’ she says. ‘This is one of the few places I could come in and apply.’”

“Tanya Giles, the hotel’s human resources manager, nods sympathetically. ‘It has to be really rough out there,’ Giles says. ‘We get 30 people a day.’ Lesso’s jaw drops. ‘Thirty people a day?’”

“In the classroom, under rows of fluorescent ceiling lights, real estate instructor Robert DiBlasi gazes out across 100 chairs. Ninety-four of them are empty. Sandra Castagne worked for condo builders in Chicago for years but never got a license in Florida. Castagne has heard about money to be made selling foreclosed houses. A profitable sideline is short sales. ‘I know the business. I’ve been doing it so long,’ Castagne says. ‘Seems like every home is a short sale.’”

“Over at the Greater Tampa Association of Realtors, president Deborah Farmer is surprised by the new blood pouring into the business. Just last week she inducted 32 agents, most newly licensed, into GTAR. Though that’s far below the 200 monthly inductees of two years ago, she detected no apprehension in the latest crop.”

“‘I looked over at them and said, ‘man, do you know what you’re doing?’ Farmer says. ‘When I got into it 10 years ago, you had to hit the ground running. It was O.J.T. — on the job training. Now things are so slow, they have time to learn.’”

The Cape Coral Daily Breeze. “Carmen Ashby finds herself at this satellite office of the Southwest Florida Workforce Development Board more often than she would like these days. She’s been out of work since June, after being laid off as a furniture sales consultant in Fort Myers. ‘I noticed it was so slow, the number of customers was so few,’ she said. ‘We were waiting three hours between customers. It was ridiculous.’”

“Carmen Ashby’s home is not in foreclosure, though paying the mortgage has proved increasingly difficult in the last few months. Instead, her home acts more like a chain that keeps her tethered to a pole, hoping that things will turn around, that she will find a job in Lee and save the home, the dream, that brought her and her husband to Southwest Florida from Middlesex county, New Jersey. Her husband has since returned to New Jersey.”

“It was a conscious decision, according to Ashby, who might also head back north if things don’t start looking up. Unless the real estate market turns around, she’ll take a considerable loss on her home. ‘It’s getting worse,’ she said. ‘I feel like I made a mistake (coming to Lee county), but my home is keeping me here.’”

The Naples News. “A credit crunch has hit a public-private partnership looking to build an affordable work-force housing project in eastern Collier County. The development is on hold because construction financing can’t be found – anywhere.”

“With so many homes on the market and so many foreclosures, the Naples area has developed ‘a black eye’ nationally and lenders seem to feel that ‘everything down here is kind of jinxed,’ said said Pat McCuan, CEO of MDG Capital Corporation in Naples, the project’s developer.”

“The lack of financing is disappointing, McCuan said. ‘We are not blaming anyone,’ he said. ‘This is an economic tsunami that has hit the entire country.’”

“If Wall Street is the villain, is Main Street the victim? Ponder this: Where did ‘The Street’ get all those mortgages they sliced and diced into financial sludge, slathered in perfume and peddled worldwide? If you said, ‘from people,’ you’re right. But if you said, ‘Well, from right here in Southwest Florida” — bingo!”

“After 15 years of fast real estate money, this rose died. Now, world economies are falling out of a bed that gets higher every day.”

“We didn’t heed our parents’ words: ‘If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.’ We changed homes like shirts. Once a coined term, ‘flipping’ became a real-estate strategy. There can’t be a bright light bulb out there who didn’t know that the power might go off someday. And it did.”

“Building got so hectic that inspectors were allowed four inspections an hour, including travel time. Do you think these harried inspectors missed anything?”

“Foreclosures have hit apartments that converted to condos and working class neighborhoods the hardest. Golden Gate Estates has seen 1,074 final judgments in mortgage foreclosure this year and there’s been another 392 in Golden Gate. Ross McIntosh, founder of The Bidder’s Broker in Naples, said entire subdivisions are getting foreclosed on including Marbella Lakes off Livingston Road in Collier County.”

“‘I’ve lost my affection for auctions,’ he said. ‘We are beginning to see motivated sellers. We don’t need to go to the auction to get the auction price anymore.’”

NBC Los Angeles. “Marriage counselors and divorce lawyers nationwide say more distressed couples are putting off divorce because the cost of splitting up is prohibitive in a time of stagnant salaries, plummeting home values and rising unemployment. In South Florida, where the condominium-heavy Miami area has been described as ground zero of the mortgage crisis, Miami-Dade County reported an 18 percent drop in divorce filings from January to May, compared to the same period last year.”

“‘What the judicial officers are telling us is that people who do come in are saying they can’t afford the cost of splitting up and going into two households — they can barely pay for the one,’ said Scott L. Rubin, a marital and family lawyer in Miami.”

“‘The housing market is down, it’s hard to sell, and when you can sell, you’re selling it at a depressed price, so a lot of people are deciding … ‘It’s not worth it to do it (at) this time. Let’s stay together. Let’s try to work through our problems and hope that the economy will spring back,’ Rubin said.”

The New York Times. “The housing crisis has kept thousands of older Americans who need support and care from moving into retirement communities or assisted-living centers, effectively stranding them in their own homes. Ruth Scher put her two-bedroom condominium in Delray Beach, Fla., on the market last year, but no one has made an offer. Ms. Scher hoped to move to a retirement community in Cornwall, N.Y., where she has friends. But in the year her home sat on the market, she could not even find a broker willing to sell the property, she said. She finally de-listed her condominium.”

“‘They tell you, ‘We’re sorry, we can’t get any people to come and look,’ Ms. Scher said. ‘If I can’t sell here, I can’t go nowhere.’”

The Sun Sentinel. “South Florida’s home prices have gone south, but mortgage fraud hasn’t. Law enforcement and corporate officials alike are bracing for a new wave of cases as the market falters. When the housing bubble burst and criminals could no longer profit by reselling properties at ever-greater prices, they simply walked away. An April FBI report warns the depressed housing market provides ‘an ideal climate’ to create more victims.”

“After falling behind on their mortgage, Henry Gribensk and his wife received a flood of mailers promising help with foreclosure. One, from a company called Florida Housing Council, seemed promising, Gribensk said. The company’s owner went to their Loxahatchee home with a stack of documents, which the couple hastily signed, thinking Moussa would help them restore their credit and avoid foreclosure. Instead, the contract transferred their property to a trust, making the Gribensks renters and subject to eviction, they allege in a lawsuit.”

“‘Somehow he got his name on the deed,’ said Gribensk, maintenance manager for two Palm Beach condominiums. ‘It’s not even our house right now.’”

The Orlando Sentinel. “County property appraisers in Seminole, Orange, Osceola, Volusia and Lake reported 155,835 vacant residential lots this year. Most are lots in new subdivisions approved during the peak of the housing boom in late 2005 and early 2006.”

“‘Right now there is a glut of vacant lots on the market,’ said Frank Royce, Lake’s deputy county property appraiser. ‘I think there are enough lots platted out there that we would not, in my opinion, see them all developed within our lifetimes.’”

“Anthony Crocco, Central Florida director for MetroStudy, said the Metro Orlando area has at least an 82-month backlog of vacant residential lots. ‘The problem is that there is so much inventory — including resale and foreclosure — of homes,’ Crocco said. ‘The buyers stopped suddenly in late 2005, but the developers and the builders just couldn’t cut the [construction] process quick enough.’”

“When Todd Vandre moved in to his spacious two-story home in early 2007, construction workers were busy building other homes in the subdivision. Today, 69 of the subdivision’s 571 planned single-family residences and town homes have been finished.”

“‘Right now, I’m willing to wait [for more new homes],’ he said. ‘But what happens when we want to move? . . . So far it’s not so bad. It’s quiet and we have more privacy. . . . But I worry about the resale value sometimes, if I ever do decide to sell.’”

“Kerri Day and her husband live in Osceola County’s Turtle Creek subdivision, where they bought a home last year. Their house is among 53 completed out of 456 lots in the subdivision. However, only about 17 houses in Turtle Creek are occupied. The builder, Levitt and Sons, stopped new-home construction and filed for bankruptcy protection a year ago, citing falling prices and an overabundance of new homes.”

Now Day’s new home is surrounded by grassy lots and empty streets. Day fears if she puts her house on the market now, it would not sell for near the $450,000 she paid. ‘I hate it here,’ she said. ‘We have no neighbors. . . . It’s like we’re living in Jurassic Park. . . . It’s very weird.’”




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93 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-24 07:40:10

One thing I’ve learned from following these markets is that what happens in an early bust zone like Florida is repeated somewhat in other markets. And what is the big concern there? It ain’t house prices; it’s jobs. Yet, is one single politician pushing a serious effort to get this country away from the housing bubble economy?

Comment by palmetto
2008-11-24 07:59:14

In Florida, construction and real estate = jobs. People just can’t seem to shake that model, so here in Fla there will be constant moaning about propping up the housing market. No one seems to get that people have to have jobs to pay for these houses. Ben, I’ve had this discussion over and over and over ad nauseum with various folks around here. I just get a blank stare or equally blank smile and nod.

Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-11-24 09:45:33

No one seems to get that people have to have jobs to pay for these houses.

That is because many are still caught up in the hype and think the market will return to the good ole days during the housing boom that brought this country to a near depression. These same people are the ones living in their houses that are in foreclosure without having to pay.

The job market in Florida prior to the housing boom was just smoke and mirrors that soon followed in decline when the housing bubble popped! Once again, the puiblic was fooled by false hopes!

 
Comment by Jon Sellers
2008-11-24 12:15:39

The only reason housing is so important in Florida is that it fulfills a need for the massive influx of population. As the baby boomers decide that they can’t move to Florida because of the cost/loss of pensions, the housing industry here dies further. And the jobs go with it.

Florida is toast. But that is okay for some of us.

 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2008-11-24 18:33:23

Palmy, my friend, you are confused.
You don’t need a job to buy a house.
You don’t need money or savings.
You don’t need a steady income source.
You just need a “credit score” and a promise to pay.

In fact, here in Florida, I have found the mortgage companies will even PAY YOU to buy a house with a 125% loan.

You can use the proceeds to make the mortgage payments, which are very small, because you can get a 1% mortgage that resets later to about 9%, but that’s not a problem, because before it does, you can refinance and take out more money on the “appreciation” you get when you buy a house with nothing.
This business model has worked here for nearly a decade. It will bring us endless prosperity.
Just buy, buy, buy!!! It’s all about Financial innovation. NO work, no job necessary. It’s the brave new financial fantasy world here. God Bless America.

 
 
Comment by ann gogh
2008-11-24 08:23:06

Anthony Crocco, Central Florida director for MetroStudy, said the Metro Orlando area has at least an 82-month backlog of vacant residential lots.”

Will that trend continue in other states too?
Getting out my calculator, 82 times 12 equals a bunch.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-11-24 08:54:22

Try 82 divided by 12, a nearly 7-year supply. And that’s at boom time building rates. How about maybe 15 to 20 years to absorb all the lots out there in places like Florida.

On another note, I just got off the phone from someone who says he’s a local landscaping contractor who admits he’s cold calling due to lack of work. Yikes!

Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2008-11-24 09:06:34

Funny… I got a cold call from a sheet metal duct work contractor… the type that is barely able to coherently speak, and it took me a bit to understand what he was peddling… Sad that a generally sub of a sub, is calling cold calling.

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Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-11-24 09:48:46

How about maybe 15 to 20 years to absorb all the lots out there in places like Florida.

Bill, and that may be a conservative estimate based on the Florida job market and number of people relocating to Florida.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-24 10:25:58

The houses won’t last 15-20 years in Florida weather.

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-11-24 10:55:53

I got the impression from the article that these were finished, but unbuilt, lots.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-24 11:51:05

You’re right. Serves me right for posting before my coffee.

 
 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-11-24 11:52:34

Now, now, people. I cold call for clients too. And you know what? The people I’ve cold called are among the most lucrative clients I’ve ever had.

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Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-24 19:16:00

What do you do?

 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2008-11-24 18:52:14

Many of the lots sold during this last flurry were first platted during the prior boom in the 1920’s.
It took 90 years to offload them on some dumb suckers, oh, excuse me, Investors.

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Comment by James
2008-11-24 09:23:07

Oh, the Citibank rescue plan was amusing today.

Bush said they would take actions to safeguard the financial system in the future. Part of that would restrict credit and have deflationary effects on the bubble.

We will see how it goes.

Thanks Ben.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-11-24 10:06:50

“…when examiners from the Securities and Exchange Commission began scrutinizing Citigroup’s subprime mortgage holdings after Bear Stearns’s problems surfaced, the bank told them that the probability of those mortgages defaulting was so tiny that they excluded them from their risk analysis, according to a person briefed on the discussion who would speak only without being named.”

 
 
Comment by hd74man
2008-11-24 09:36:53

RE: Yet, is one single politician pushing a serious effort to get this country away from the housing bubble economy?

Their ignorance is commensurate with their 10% public approval ratings, which certainly must be in the low single digits now.

Comment by varelse
2008-11-24 15:43:39

10% approval rating, yet most of them still get re-elected.

Apparently they don’t get it because the voters don’t seem to care if they get it.

Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2008-11-24 18:54:03

They keep getting re-elected because there are only 2 choices: dumb or dumber.
which do you want?

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Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 10:58:17

Well, it was suggested today in bits that this was the time to buy a house in FL.
Yes, today in HBB! (regular posters)
Their argument (with validity) was that inflation is bound to occur.
Their solution was to buy RE in FL. (faulty?)
Since nobody else, took that conversation over here, I will.

This was one of the posts:
Mike: “If you have a house that’s paid off, at least you won’t be homeless. Now is a good time to buy, seriously. Many places are being sold way below replacement value, at least here in Miami. Lots of houses are being offered at 75% off peak prices.”

“Condos maybe, still tough to find a sucker to pay $200K for a 2/2. I am looking at a house built in 2004. 1450 sqft 3/2 for $115K asking. The place last sold in 3/2006 for $430K. That’s cheaper than I can rent a similar place right now.”
—-

And these were my answers:
-
“Mike, I do not know what you are talking about.
Unless you mean Homestead/Florida city/Cutler Bay.
Yes, in the cities above you can get houses built in 04 for 115K.
Good luck with that plan, flood zone, the solid waste site on 212th that burns animal carcasses and asbestos….
-
I can back up what I wrote above with links if you need me to.

-
&
Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 09:02:24
Ok, enough falsehoods.
There are some falsehoods on the above posts.
1st. Forget what you pay for a property as being anything close to what the property appraiser’s office will assess for your property.
2nd. 75% off peak is meaningless. In Miami-Dade outright fraud made prices go up over 200%
I saw this! First hand. This is not something I read about.
I saw straw buyers buy property at 50% above asking price with an illegal kickback at closing and then resell the property a month later at 75% increase and the entire thing repeated in less than 6 months.
I saw this!!!!
3rd. Could we please stop talking about replacement cost?
That is unless we talk around $50-60 sq/ft because that is what it takes to build a house, from permitting to Certificate of occupancy in FL.
4th $100 sq/ft in a decent area in Miami does not exist.
It doesn’t, I do not care who says so.
I’d buy tomorrow 3 houses if that were true.

-

Then there was no response. :-(

If I am wrong please tell/show me.

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-24 11:06:59

OK Muir, I’ll ask you what you think of my possible “purchase” (i.e., re-po) of a 2004 3BR 2BA house upon which I lent some Failed Florida Flippers the sum of $54,400. The house is about 1200 square feet, hence if I repossess it (count something for the cost of foreclosure or of bribing the borrowers to sign a quitclaim), my cost will be about $47 per square foot. I’m not delighted with the cultural attractions in the vicinity of Port Charlotte, but it’s warmer than other places I could live.

Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 11:38:29

Notice that Mike said “Miami” and I answered Miami.
-
As to your question, well, $54,000 for housing is great, what can I say?
Taxes will be low in Charlotte County.
And you could always do without insurance.
Now, in your situation you do your business via internet/fax/phone, so work isn’t a problem.
For you, I guess the question is do you want to live there or be a landlord or have it as a winter retreat.
-
Now, if the question is if you got a great deal as an investment, then, I’m not so sure.
I mean, the flippers are having a problem, are they not?
-
Would I want to live there?
No.
-
Again, notice that Mike said “Miami” and I answered Miami.
-
Now, find me a house in good shape around 1500 sq ft under a/c in the following zip codes at $100 aq/ft and I will give you a bonus of 10%
33129
33134 (Gables side)
33145 (South of Coral Way, East of 25th Ave. This is not a fancy neighborhood, nowhere near the status or beauty of the Gables)
33133 (The non-slum side of the Grove)
-
In fact just anything East of Dixie to Palmetto Bay (and at least half a mile inside Dixie in Palmetto Bay)
That would include:
33143
33156
33158
33157 (Palmetto Bay side only)
-
And then not to get to picky, lets go a little interior:
33155 close to Miller East of Ludlam.
-
Oh, I didn’t get to the beach, that wouldn’t be fair.
-

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Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 11:45:00

Oh, and to be clear, in good shape does not mean “handyman special” or “needs some TLC” or that I need to “bring up to code.”
In also means no permits needed just to get the house ready to live in.
It can mean: needs paint, appliances and landscaping.

 
Comment by Jean S
2008-11-24 15:06:44

33143 is south miami; 33156 is pinecrest. Not miami.

my family has lived in south miami since 1949; i come by my pickiness honestly. :)

and honestly? if you really hang in there, you may come up with something in south miami. Pinecrest, not so sure–it got hit hard with the “teardown basic ranch house/build mega-mansion” motif.

 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 17:00:23

He gave me 33142 and 33127 in the bits.
Which is overtown and Miami Ave/36st respectively.
He did originally say “Miami” which I took to be Miami-Dade.
-

I

 
 
 
Comment by Lesser Fool
2008-11-24 15:18:09

2nd. 75% off peak is meaningless. In Miami-Dade outright fraud made prices go up over 200%

If a house went up 200% it only needs to come down 66% to get back to the original price.

If a house went up 300% then a 75% haircut is sufficient to get back to the pre-bubble price.

75% off peak is signficant. No matter what the market. I’m not saying it’s a good buy-in price, but it’s definitely not meaningless.

Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 17:10:53

You are right.
With the insanity I saw I’d need to slow down to really see the numbers.
“I saw straw buyers buy property at 50% above asking price with an illegal kickback at closing and then resell the property a month later at 75% increase and the entire thing repeated in less than 6 months.”
I saw three cases like that in one building were I owned a condo. (80s vintage)
The new buildings were insane with fraud.
Again, you are right.
I should just use one number: 1999.
That’s the year that numbers still had some meaning for me.

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Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2008-11-24 18:57:29

Your math is faulty.

A 200% rise requires a 50% reduction.
A 300% rise requires a 66% reduction.

Good logic, but bad ciphering.

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Comment by Juno Moneta
2008-11-25 07:26:55

DDUUUHHHH!!!!! You didn’t need a job to buy a house, but you DO need a job to pay for it????….What kind of contorted logic is that????
I thought this was America…Land of fruit and honey…Where everybody lives happily ever after in their dream home…..
I guess I’ll have to go back to school and take that logic course over again….I flunked it the first time….

 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2008-11-24 08:01:02

“If Wall Street is the villain, is Main Street the victim? Ponder this: Where did ‘The Street’ get all those mortgages they sliced and diced into financial sludge, slathered in perfume and peddled worldwide? If you said, ‘from people,’ you’re right. But if you said, ‘Well, from right here in Southwest Florida” — bingo!”

Right, Wall Street was the enabler, not the perpetrator, unless you want to argue that millions of overspending Americans have no free will, and Wall Street was like a drug pusher profiting from addicts.

Hmmm.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-11-24 08:30:04

It’s too bad that the truth is so politically uncomfortable, otherwise maybe there would be a constructive national discussion on the matter.

I agree with your summation.

Comment by Ernest
2008-11-24 10:27:27

“”otherwise maybe there would be a constructive national discussion on the matter.”"

Imagine that. We might even discuss just what being a “nation” is?

 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-11-24 10:18:21

By Matthew Philips | NEWSWEEK
Published Sep 27, 2008
From the magazine issue dated Oct 6, 2008

One of the earliest CDS deals came out of JPMorgan in December 1997, when the firm put into place the idea hatched in Boca Raton. It essentially took 300 different loans, totaling $9.7 billion, that had been made to a variety of big companies like Ford, Wal-Mart and IBM, and cut them up into pieces known as “tranches” (that’s French for “slices”). The bank then identified the riskiest 10 percent tranche and sold it to investors in what was called the Broad Index Securitized Trust Offering, or Bistro for short. The Bistro was put together by Terri Duhon, at the time a 25-year-old MIT graduate working on JPMorgan’s credit swaps desk in New York—a division that would eventually earn the name the Morgan Mafia for the number of former members who went on to senior positions at global banks and hedge funds. “We made it possible for banks to get their credit risk off their books and into nonfinancial institutions like insurance companies and pension funds,” says Duhon, who now heads her own derivatives consulting business in London.

Hatched in Boca.
Leigh

 
Comment by Leighsong
2008-11-24 10:34:37

Sorry if this is a double - last one didn’t go through.

NEWSWEEK
Published Sep 27, 2008
From the magazine issue dated Oct 6, 2008

snip

It didn’t start out that way. One of the earliest CDS deals came out of JPMorgan in December 1997, when the firm put into place the idea hatched in Boca Raton. It essentially took 300 different loans, totaling $9.7 billion, that had been made to a variety of big companies like Ford, Wal-Mart and IBM, and cut them up into pieces known as “tranches” (that’s French for “slices”). The bank then identified the riskiest 10 percent tranche and sold it to investors in what was called the Broad Index Securitized Trust Offering, or Bistro for short. The Bistro was put together by Terri Duhon, at the time a 25-year-old MIT graduate working on JPMorgan’s credit swaps desk in New York—a division that would eventually earn the name the Morgan Mafia for the number of former members who went on to senior positions at global banks and hedge funds. “We made it possible for banks to get their credit risk off their books and into nonfinancial institutions like insurance companies and pension funds,” says Duhon, who now heads her own derivatives consulting business in London. (Cont’d)

Yep, Boca.
Leigh

Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 13:42:17

Sharks in Boca :-)

“Boca Raton is the “spam capital of the world”, being the source of a surprisingly high fraction of all spam generated worldwide, which is not surprising given the area’s appeal, the personal fortunes of typical spammers, and the area’s notorious past as a favorite of organized crime. According to the Miami Herald, the city has a long history of involvement in confidence tricks. Richard C. Breeden, former U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission chairman, once called the city “the only coastal city in Florida where there are more sharks on land than in the water.”

Comment by Otis Wildflower
2008-11-25 11:22:00

IIRC the IBM PC was invented at their facility in Boca, bolted together from COTS parts and given the IBM imprimatur (and associated hefty pricetag).

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Comment by Tokyo Renter - Ex LA Renter
 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2008-11-24 08:01:46

“Day fears if she puts her house on the market now, it would not sell for near the $450,000 she paid. ‘I hate it here,’ she said. ‘We have no neighbors. . . . It’s like we’re living in Jurassic Park. . . . It’s very weird.’”

$450,000. In Osceola County. LMAO! Jurassic Park is a pretty apt description, too.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-11-24 08:38:07

That OS article is full of FBs.

 
Comment by Paul in Florida
2008-11-24 08:41:21

“Day fears if she puts her house on the market now, it would not sell for near the $450,000 she paid.”

Ya think? I’m guessing 150, tops.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 09:10:40

I fear that if she doesn’t put her house on the market now, in 3 years it will be worthless.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-24 09:21:05

‘We have no neighbors. . . . It’s like we’re living in Jurassic Park. . . . It’s very weird.’”

The strange part to me is that she doesn’t enjoy the sensation. I LOVE living in the deep dark forest. Love, love, love.
Bigfoot and giant trees and little frogs and then aways away a bunch of reclusive human hermit retirees for neighbors…it’s like heaven, man.

Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 10:01:20

Yeah, but in FL it’s not like a deep dark forrest of say, Washington or Oregon.
It’s more like ugly turkeys, big frogs, bigger mosquitos and meth producers.
Now, if you are hiding from the law….

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-24 10:05:07

‘It’s more like ugly turkeys, big frogs, bigger mosquitos and meth producers.’

Oh.
Well, then, yar. I guess that would not be so great. I’ve never been to Florida, and I am feeling less and less eager to do so.

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Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 10:08:56

Don’t let them discourage you. Florida still has a lot of natural beauty…and a mouse…to live in a boom gone bust town, that’s a different story.

 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 10:43:45

I was jus messin with Olympia, she always brings a smile.
Yes, FL does still have a lot of natural beauty.
Now, as for the “ugly turkeys, big frogs, bigger mosquitos” that was true. :-)

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 11:44:18

What about the big black ducks? Those are mean animals!

 
Comment by varelse
2008-11-24 15:53:05

Yeah but isn’t most of Florida’s natural beauty wearing a thong?

 
Comment by Muir
2008-11-24 17:12:03

Not necessarily.
Picture a 50ish Brazilian male on the Beach.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Ann
2008-11-24 09:30:18

checked on the MLS..a home same as my old one, went into foreclosure on 2X the size lot as mine for LESS than what I paid for it in 03…2002/01 here we come!..sold it for 400K more than what I paid for it at the height of the market!

Told my husband if we can find someone to pay this price lets get the heck out of here

Update: buyer is now trying to sell as a short sale..he is still 100K off of where he needs to be..

 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2008-11-24 19:01:57

Like other lies the press tells, she did not “pay” $450,000.
Almost no one in Florida has that kind of money to “pay” for a house, and even they don’t pay it.
She is Mortgaged for $450,000 and told the bank she would pay it. I doubt that she will.
I doubt many others will pay either. But let’s get our facts straight. She purchased the house with credit.

 
 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 08:05:40

These stories have gone from humorous to just plain sad. I’m actually starting to feel bad for these folks. Living in a foreclosed home because you have no place else to go? Being handed a stack of documents to sign to save your home only to lose it anyway? Guess that’s what got you into the mess in the first place…just sad…

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-24 08:06:26

Once a coined term, ‘flipping’ became a real-estate strategy. There can’t be a bright light bulb out there who didn’t know that the power might go off someday. And it did.”
=======================================================

‘Flipping’ meant something entirely different to me as I grew up and went through the U.S.A. (University of Santa Anita) and paid my gambling tuition…

It’s a horse racing term that means if a jockey can’t make his weight, the easiest way to get there is via finger lodged down throat and back comes breakfast and bring him the bridle, he’s ready to ride. ha

I learned a lot, but never earned a lot at those days at the races. In fact I lost a lot of money, offset by occasional wins, but red ink was my constant companion.

My 1st day at the races was when I was 12, and I was taking the bus to Santa Anita and wagering by the time I was 14, the golden years being during high school, where as luck would have it, 3 of my teachers were horseplayers who regaled me with tales of exactas hit, daily doubles that paid just under $600 on a $2 ticket (tax reporting to the IRS on any win with odds of 300-1 or more) and about just missing on Pick 6’s, but getting a nice payday anyway.

So a funny thing happened… i’d go with them to the races, and they couldn’t pick their noses, let alone wager correctly, and they had been at it for decades?

The lingua franca we shared came from the mighty Daily Racing Form, which told you everything you could ever wanted to know in terms of past performance by every horse in the 9 races per day (about 100 horses in total) and it taught me a very important lesson about relying too much on the past, as the past constantly didn’t perform as it should have based upon tangible evidence.

It was the intangible evidence that I couldn’t see, that was my nemesis.

Comment by Paul in Florida
2008-11-24 08:32:43

Interesting story, but the reason it’s almost impossible to make money betting on horses is simpler than that: the house take is too high. The best strategy is looking for anomalies in the show and place money, but even those usually get arbitraged away in the last couple of minutes. More fun down under, where you can arbitrage between the bookies and you get the line when you bet, not at post time. But still, all you can do is reduce those huge odds against you - they’re just too steep.

BTW, I have a simple program I wrote on an excel file to calculate a bookie’s take when setting odds in a multiple-entrant contest - the arithmetic is pretty simple.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-24 08:57:09

I was in Aussie frequently in the 80’s, and going to the races and trying to pit the TAB against real live bookies on course, for bettor odds was a lot of fun…

Here’s a gambling story, circa 1981

So i’m down in Tasmania @ Wrest Point, about the only casino @ the time in Australia, and the casino was open from 3pm till midnight, and one had to be dressed in a coat, so if you were just in a t-shirt or other shirt, you needed to rent a cheap black jacket for $5, and it seemed like 2/3rds of the clientelle was so attired, myself included.

I’m playing blackjack and up $1500, and Cinderella is knocking hard on my door as I start losing a bunch of hands as the witching hour nears and I can lose no more. Imagine a time-limit in Vegas casinos?

So i’m up a grandido when the clock strikes and go to my room, and i’d never seen a mini-bar before, and i’m barely not a teen-ager, and I can’t even legally drink back in the states, but wow~
I can’t believe this place, they give you booze with a room!

So I killed off quite a few snappy cocktails, and then in the morning carefully raided the rest of that little refrigerator, sticking the liquid assets bottled up in a plastic laundry bag and made good my escape.

Youth must be served…

Comment by Blano
2008-11-24 09:29:09

Lolol great story, Lad…..reminds me of the first time I saw booze in a room. Awesome!!!

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Comment by GSfixer
2008-11-24 08:42:46

“……couples are putting off divorce, because the cost of splitting up is prohibitive……”

Good thing I got mine in 2004, or else I might have been “priced out forever”

A Soviet Gulag would be a walk in the park, compared to being forced to live with a woman than can’t stand to have you around, but you are chained together with in your mortal life by an upside down mortgage.

Much like my ex-, and her new husband. (sound of suppressed laughter)

 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-11-24 08:49:46

“‘It’s a sign of the times,’ Brivik said during a brief telephone call this month. ‘A lot of people are filing for bankruptcy. It’s not something you want to do. It’s just something that’s happening.’”

No, Brivik, it is not a sign of the times, but it is a sign of greed, excessive fraud and idiots like you who drove up the prices on real estate and then walked away from your greed via BK.

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2008-11-24 08:53:25

“Marriage counselors and divorce lawyers nationwide say more distressed couples are putting off divorce because the cost of splitting up is prohibitive in a time of stagnant salaries, plummeting home values and rising unemployment…Let’s stay together. Let’s try to work through our problems and hope that the economy will spring back,’ Rubin said.”

Yes, let’s save traditional marriage by ruining the economy, treating homosexuals like second class citizens, and giving tax breaks to couples at the cost of singles.

Marriage as a private contract between two people who love each other is now dead. Has it turned into just another government sponsored franchise that supposedly can’t survive without a bailout?

Comment by Maria
2008-11-24 15:01:07

NoSingleOne

I am assuming your are gay, this forum is not for the gay rights propoganda.

-Maria

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-24 17:13:31

Wha…?
Hello, Ms. Maria Utter McNutter. Jeeze. I once didn’t kill and eat someone who really deserved it; does that make me a vegetarian?
Answer that, if you can!

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-11-24 19:26:52

I am assuming your are gay, this forum is not for the gay rights propoganda.

Huh?? And what Olympiagal said.

 
 
 
Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-11-24 08:55:48

“More than 22,700 jobs have been lost since September 2007 in the Tampa Bay area, the hardest-hit area in the state. The sacrifices are starting to pile up. Lesso has sent out nearly 200 resumes. She hasn’t heard back from anyone. ‘ve had two months with nothing,’ she says.

The following is why Annie Lesso is having a hard time finding a job in the Tampa Bay area:

Tampa Bay area’s top 10 jobs
Occupation 2007 number Average pay/hour
1. Retail salespersons 43,130 $13.14
2. Customer service reps 36,370 $14.69
3. Cashiers 33,050 $8.65
4. Waiters and waitresses 30,990 $9.83
5. General office clerks 29,860 $12.19
6. Food prep, serving workers 27,040 $8.21
7. Laborers, freight/stock movers 23,770 $11.21
8. Stock clerks, order fillers 22,880 $10.23
9. Registered nurses 22,030 $29.39
10. Secretaries

(not legal/medical/exec) 21,320 $13.19
Total metro area jobs 1.27-million $18.61
Sources: Occupational Employment Statistics, Florida Agency for Workforce Innovation. Includes Pinellas, Pasco, Hillsborough and Hernando counties.)

Comment by Paul in Florida
2008-11-24 09:16:34

Top employer in Florida is Publix Supermarkets.

Those $9/hr. Wal-mart and Publix jobs be lookin’ pert’ good about now to most fo’ks.

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 09:21:19

If you’ve sent out 200 resumes and haven’t heard back, even in this economy, something is very very wrong with you or your resume.

Comment by Fuzzy Bear
2008-11-24 09:53:16

I agree Bad Andy, it sounds like she lacks a formal education or does not know how to network and is just sending out resumes hoping one will be read.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 10:03:18

Because I’m in sales, I was often on the chopping block before I started my business. Seems as though the sales department is the first one cut (in fairness the first brought back when they realize their error). I’ve never spent more than 3 weeks without work.

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Comment by Skip
2008-11-24 13:05:04

Its funny how sales people and advertising are the first things cut by the pointy headed bosses.

 
Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 13:20:02

It’s because our value is not immediately known. On a profit and loss sheet salespeople can be brought in on a lower commission split and produce the same as the one on the higher. They find out soon enough that you get what you pay for in sales and marketing. A lot of times too they take old pros making $150K on straight commission and try to replace them with new college grads on a $25K salary with a small commission plan. Doesn’t work.

 
 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2008-11-24 10:18:02

NO ANDY….people are just not hiring you if you are just slightly over educated for the job.

Plus you don’t get the fact that 23 year old Paris Hilton Chickypoos read the resumes. I cant tell you the last time an ADULT ever talked to me. The things on my resume require someone who at least can read and think and maybe ask a question. Skills most HR people don’t have today.

No body returns a email receipt anymore so you can never actually find out the company you applied to.

I cant tell you the horror stories i have each week dealing with severe dumbness. Ive dumbed down my resume it still doesn’t work

Logical questions like I live 5 blocks away from your law office, and you wont hire me as a file clerk because i am over qualified and the last little girl you fired because she couldn’t get to work on time, and i live 5 blocks away

Man I wish i could meet someone smart enough to answer that question with a Yes living 5 blocks away is a good thing to have in an employee when being on time is important to the job.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 11:48:02

I don’t even look at the education section of the resume (seriously). I will call anyone without typos and without a new job every 4 months into my office for an interview.

As far as the education goes, paper is just that, paper. Real world experience is where the real money is. This is from almost Dr. Bad Andy…my DBA is strictly for my own ego.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-24 12:19:03

You know if you shuffle DBA around, you get ABD. ;-)

 
 
Comment by Skip
2008-11-24 13:12:07

aNYCdj if they are anything like the ones on TV (and I know several that are), how you look in a short skirt maybe be the reason they didn’t hire you.

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Comment by Curt
2008-11-24 09:01:26

“‘Right now there is a glut of vacant lots on the market,’ said Frank Royce, Lake’s deputy county property appraiser. ‘I think there are enough lots platted out there that we would not, in my opinion, see them all developed within our lifetimes.’”

There can only be one explanation for this. They’re making more land!

 
Comment by bottomfisherman
2008-11-24 09:18:32

“Mark Brivik, a real estate investor who made a living buying, fixing up and selling houses on Longboat Key and other parts of Southwest Florida, has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection. Brivik distinguished himself from other investors during the past two decades by selling houses back and forth to business associates and companies he controlled or had a stake in. In one case, Brivik transferred a house at 549 Lane on Longboat Key back and forth between his corporations and business associates 12 times from 1995 to 2005 before it was finally foreclosed upon by First Priority in November 2007. In the process, Brivik and his partners increased their loans from $405,000 in 1996 to $1.4 million in 2002.”

Shouldn’t Mark be in JAIL??

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 09:28:56

As long as their aren’t debtor prisons, Mark won’t be in jail. Just depends on if he lied on one or more liar loans…that’s going to fill our prisons.

Comment by CrackerJim
2008-11-24 09:34:00

“…that’s going to fill our prisons.”

Our prisons are already full! Maybe new prisons can be a part of the FDObama New Deal infrastructure building bubble.

Comment by Kirisdad
2008-11-24 16:54:26

Don’t count on it, they’ll be letting more cons out than putting in. This country has a real problem with paying for enforcement, even in good times. How many times do you hear or read “we don’t need new laws or regulations, just enforce the ones we have”? talk about moral hazard, sorry pet peeve of mine.

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Comment by hd74man
2008-11-24 09:30:25

RE: “Marriage counselors and divorce lawyers nationwide say more distressed couples are putting off divorce because the cost of splitting up is prohibitive in a time of stagnant salaries, plummeting home values and rising unemployment.

No one has experienced HELL ON EARTH until they’ve had the op to live with an adulterous spouse for 2 years while waiting for the house to sell.

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-24 10:19:32

I moved to my boat. Didn’t enjoy living in hell. Still like living on the boat.

Comment by Molly
2008-11-24 15:06:12

Hubby has a friend who moved into his trailer on five acres when his wife filed for divorce (and got the house). Friend is happy on “Alimony Acres”.

 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-24 10:43:57

If ever there was a punishment that fit the crime of “overspending to buy a nest”, it’s this one.

Impending divorce + upside-down on house = fun in paradise.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-11-24 11:58:48

And I wonder in how many cases the upside down house caused the divorce.

There’s irony, a catch-22, or proof of the transitive property in there somewhere.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-24 12:05:50

Seriously.

The gods love irony.

I don’t care what people say. If you’re in tune money-wise, life becomes a lot easier. From my observation, those couples do a lot more “horizontal jogging” too, if you know what I mean. ;-)

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Comment by Leighsong
2008-11-24 12:22:47

Um - We resemble that - er in tune money wise and the…er, ya know what I mean.

Blush,
Leigh ;)

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-24 12:36:52

Just tell me that you love, love, love your food too and your friends, and I’ll just argue that you’re living the American Dream™. ;-)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-11-24 10:47:02

“We didn’t heed our parents’ words: ‘If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.’”
_______________________________

Whose parents said that? Unless they are products of the Great Depression, most parents I know, of every generation, went all-in on the propaganda that a mortgage is an investment, and that real estate is a can’t-miss way to build wealth through asset appreciation. Even now that is still the dominant paradigm, with the thinking being that we just need to put this hiccup behind us with made-up dollars and the power of positive belief.

The truth is that reality-based wisdom earned from experience long ago succombed to marketing. There is no other way to explain Florida, or Las Vegas for that matter. I continue to believe that this state will be unrecognizable in twenty years.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-24 12:16:03

Seriously.

They’ve all snorted the RE Kool-Aid™ full-on.

Snort. They’re running out of land.
Snort. RE goes up forever.
Snort. The boomers/Europeans/Chindians are coming.

SNORT.

 
 
Comment by Paul in Florida
2008-11-24 11:01:03

Filled my tank today for the first time in awhile. Have to pay 2.09 here when I know it’s 1.85 in other states, but since we’ve now had a 15% bounce in oil and unleaded gas futures, I’d say we’ve got a pretty good short-term bottom in place at the pump.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-11-24 11:56:02

It’s $1.65 in Metro Detroit. They have a tax on gas similar to ours in Florida. Therefore, $1.65 when it does hit here is probably a pretty good floor for a while.

 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-24 12:41:44

May Day, May Day!

Get Jurassic out of there on the double~

Now Day’s new home is surrounded by grassy lots and empty streets. Day fears if she puts her house on the market now, it would not sell for near the $450,000 she paid. ‘I hate it here,’ she said. ‘We have no neighbors. . . . It’s like we’re living in Jurassic Park. . . . It’s very weird.’”

 
Comment by realradio
2008-12-14 15:46:09

I would never reference anything that the Sarasota Herald Tribune says, particularly when it is written about real estate and by Mr. Braga (one of their sensationalist writers) Apparently he has some hidden agenda against Mr. Brivik and twists the truth a lot to sensationalize his stories concerning him. This was made apparent to me after I read his articles and other documentation that was made public on Mr. Brivik’s web site.

 
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