November 25, 2008

Turned Into A Money Vehicle

A report from the Associated Press. “Existing home sales in the Northeast dropped more than 9 percent in October from last year, while the median sales price in the region sank 5 percent to $277,000, the National Association of Realtors said Monday. Michael Lynch, regional economist at Global Insight, said the largest economy in New England, Massachusetts, is starting to show cracks after seeming ‘resilient’ for the past several months. Job losses are mounting, which could be a harbinger for the rest of the region. ‘It’s the place to watch right now,’ Lynch said.”

“Already, the New York City suburban housing market is teetering, said real estate agent Sandra Lippman of Prudential Centennial Realty in Westchester County, north of the Big Apple. Lippman said sales are ‘creeping’ while inventory has increased over last year. Sales in Suffolk, Nassau and Westchester counties, which surround New York City, dropped more than 11 percent, while prices fell almost 10 percent to $400,000, according to the AP-Re/Max report.”

“‘I had a few buyers who work for the investment banks or brokerage houses. Some of them have just disappeared,’ Lippman said.”

“Downtown Providence is still reeling from too many condos and rampant lending to riskier borrowers during the boom. About one in four sales are bank-owned properties or short sales, in which the lender agrees to accept a sales price below the balance owed on the mortgage, said real estate agent Julie Longtin, in East Greenwich, R.I.”

“The median price of a Providence home tumbled more than 12 percent in October, from a year ago, the largest decline of the Northeast metro areas. The supply of unsold homes decreased by 6 percent from October of last year. Still, Longtin said, ‘We’re on the cusp of stabilization if nothing else goes dramatically wrong.’”

“Steve Testa put his split-level ranch house in Cranston, a Providence suburb, on the market in January for $339,000. With very few nibbles, he slashed the price to $302,500 in the summer. Finally, to nab one buyer who kept coming back, he reduced the price even more. The final selling price for the three-bedroom house: $297,500.”

“‘If we didn’t negotiate with this potential buyer,’ he said, ‘there was a very distinct possibility we would be in the house through the holidays and into the springtime.’”

The Press & Sun Bulletin from New York. “In Broome County, there were 173 foreclosures between July and September, up from just 18 two years ago. More than 50,000 homeowners in New York face foreclosure this year, particularly in the Mid-Hudson Valley and western New York.”

“Property taxes will account for 39 percent of the City of Binghamton’s expected revenue next year. And while the Greater Binghamton area has been bucking national trends with its climbing housing values, Mayor Matthew T. Ryan is concerned. ‘We’ve already got our fiscal crisis,’ Ryan said, ‘and obviously we’re not looking forward to something that adds to it.’”

From New York Magazine. “Is there anyone in town—owner, renter, or especially buyer or seller—who isn’t watching the New York real-estate market right now? New York collected seven of the best real-estate minds we know for an afternoon roundtable.”

“Do they think we’re at bottom? Do you? “Noah Rosenblatt, Halstead Property vice-president: ‘I don’t expect to do a deal in the next three or four months. It’s not that I don’t want to. But my clients know what’s going on. If I said, ‘Buy now, you’re going to miss it,’ I’m going to insult their intelligence.’”

“Dottie Herman, CEO of Prudential Douglas Elliman: ‘I have to disagree. If you’re going to live there and raise a family, and you try to wait for that perfect time, you might miss something you like. [But] if you expect to become rich in a day or two, forget it.’”

“New York Comptroller Thomas DiNapoli said Monday that the financial crisis gripping Wall Street and the world economy could cost the state and New York City 225,000 private-sector jobs over the next two years. The securities industry in New York has already lost more than 16,000 jobs and could shed a total of 38,000 jobs by next October. In the first half of this year, New York Stock Exchange member firms alone lost nearly $21 billion, DiNapoli said.”

“‘These numbers are translating into job losses,’ he said. Before the current crisis, the securities industry accounted for 5 percent of New York City’s employment but nearly 25 percent of the wages.”

The Boston Herald from Massachusetts. “Eviction filings in state housing court hit a new high in the last fiscal year as the faltering economy and a worsening foreclosure crisis pushed more than 20,000 Bay Staters to the brink of homelessness. In particular, housing advocates are worried about the growing number of tenants in multi-family units who pay their monthly rent, but still receive eviction notices from banks who have foreclosed on their landlord’s property.”

“In March, Barclay’s Capital Real Estate Inc. foreclosed on the two-family home where Rob Chiampa had been renting an apartment for $700 monthly since 2003, according to Suffolk County land records and an interview. Chiampa and his neighbors were in Boston Housing Court last week because of eviction notices that had been mailed to their homes under the name ‘John Doe.’ He didn’t know why the landlord fell behind.”

“‘Lord knows,’ Chiampa said. ‘She certainly wasn’t paying the mortgage.’”

My Central New Jersey. “Foreclosure filings on New Jersey properties hit 8,473 in October 2008. That’s a 75 percent increase over filings for October 2007 (4,844). ‘”I’ve been doing this job for almost 30 years and it’s as bad as it ever was,’ said Middlesex County Sheriff Joe Spicuzzo. ‘We were averaging, several years ago, maybe two or three sheriff sales a month. Now, we’re scheduling about 50 a month on average.’”

“In all, home foreclosures in New Jersey are now on pace to hit 50,000 this year. The situation is exacerbated by rising joblessness with employment in the state falling in eight of the 10 months of 2008. The Associated Press reported that unemployment in New Jersey climbed to its highest level in five years in October.”

“‘When I first became the sheriff, I would grant anybody all the time they needed to settle with the bank,’ said Spicuzzo who said a judge then called him in and explained that, by law, sheriffs are obligated to sell foreclosed homes on scheduled dates or risk becoming personally responsible for the debt.”

“‘I’ll schedule sheriff’s sales for this next coming Tuesday, and I can’t stand selling a person’s house two days before Thanksgiving, and two days before Christmas,’ said Spicuzzo. ‘But you know, that’s my job, and I feel really bad about doing it.”’

The Star Ledger from New Jersey. “Turns out there may be an upside to the prolonged downturn in home prices. With home prices down 25 percent in New Jersey from peak levels in 2006, some homeowners may be entitled to a reduction in property taxes come 2009.”

“‘We had 4,200 appeals, last year, which was up from the prior year and I’m bracing for even more this year,’ said Lawrence Vituscka, the tax administrator at the Ocean County Board of Taxation. ‘Every day people are seeing home sale prices falling in their areas and foreclosures, so they feel over assessed. The economy is bad. We’re seeing more layoffs and people are starting to look at every dollar very closely.’”

“One big stumbling block in this sluggish housing market, however, is the shortage of recent sales data. ‘It is very difficult to prove the value of real estate in New Jersey right now, because in this market, you may not be able to find a lot of comparable home sales,’ he said.”

“Another strike against homeowners: estate sales, foreclosures, short sale are not considered ‘arm’s length transactions,’ in New Jersey and therefore you are not allowed to present those types of transactions as comparable sales data during your appeal. ‘Make sure you present only valid sales — properties on the open market that have been sold in a competitive fashion and not under duress,’ Vitsucka said. ‘Foreclosures are considered under duress.’”

“Still, Timothy Duggan, a tax attorney in Lawrenceville, says in these unprecedented times, with home foreclosures and home price declines in record territory, it certainly wouldn’t hurt to include foreclosures along with your regular comparable sales data to really drive your point home, he said. ‘We are anticipating a lot of appeals this coming year,’ he said. ‘I don’t know how many will be successful, but I think in 2009, more people will be winning.’”

Public Opinion News from Pennsylvania. “The national housing downturn has touched Franklin County. Home foreclosures are up. The number of properties listed for sheriff’s sale has doubled. The median sale price of a house declined 3 percent. Sales are flagging.”

“‘I think people forgot a home was a home and turned it into a money vehicle,’ said Tina Long, Realtor/owner of Exit Preferred Realty, Chambersburg. ‘It’s still a home. There’s money out there to buy a home. I don’t remember seeing the public as afraid as they are now.’”

“‘It’s not a good time to buy if you’re going to live in a house for one year,’ Long said. ‘If you’re going to live in it for five years, and make a house a home, it’s a great time to buy.’”

“With national media attention focused on foreclosures, Exit Preferred Realty has scheduled a local foreclosure bus tour for Jan. 11. ‘The idea is to get investors looking at houses so the houses aren’t sitting in inventory,’ Long said. ‘Banks are working with people. It’s an excellent time to buy. It’s just a way of getting some interest.’”

The Cape Gazette from Delaware. “The Sussex County housing market took a sharp hit this fall as a perfect storm of problems developed both here and nationwide: an oversupply of homes, a credit crisis and a decrease in consumer confidence. Still, a local builder says the gloomy outlook will pass - and possibly sooner rather than later.”

“Schell Bros. President Chris Schell said sales are ugly right now, but that people should realize when it gets this bad, it’s good. Schell said his company and other national builders in Delaware reached their peak home sales in 2004 and 2005. A classic speculative bubble formed, he said, resulting in a huge surplus of new and existing homes despite a high demand in the area.”

“‘Back then, a lot of people got involved in real estate and everyone was making money,’ said Schell. But the problems implanted in the speculative boom came to an end, led by a mortgage crisis, and ultimately resulted in a huge drop in consumer confidence, he said.”

The Herald Mail from Maryland. “Don’t break out the champagne yet, but for those with a house to sell, there is good news: Washington County’s real estate market increased last month for the first time in nearly three years. The number of people buying homes rose slightly, boosting the market 2.4 percent.”

“That alone is reason to cheer, said Joan McLernon, president-elect of the Pen-Mar Regional Association of Realtors. ‘Any news is good news, and I will take it for all it’s worth,’ McLernon said. ‘And if the buying public has woken up and seen what wonderful buying opportunities there are out there, that’s wonderful.’”

“In Washington County, the real estate market peaked in 2005 with a mind-numbing 45 percent gain, according to MRIS data. In that one year, buyers grabbed up a total of 2,254 houses here for a total of $578 million, a record high. During the heady days of 2005, there was an average of 607 homes for sale in Washington County. On average, sales were taking 50 days.”

“This past month, by comparison, there were 1,292 homes on the market. And, on average, sales were taking 184 days. Such figures are a lesson in the effects of supply and demand, McLernon said. When the supply is high and demand low, prices fall. That’s why Realtors have been trying to reduce the supply by urging clients ‘who don’t have to sell’ to pull their houses off the market, McLernon said.”

“‘If you don’t need to sell or, more importantly, if your house is not priced appropriately, you are hurting more than helping,’ McLernon said. ‘Some sellers are in denial of what the market is’ and won’t accept lower prices, she said.”

“MRIS figures show the average price of homes sold here last month was 13 percent lower than the average asking price. In 2005, the average selling price was 2.8 percent lower than the average asking price. Properties that don’t have 2008 prices are ‘just going to sit there, but the inventory is going to stay up,’ McLernon said. ‘So it’s hurting all the other people who need to sell, who maybe their job has moved or they really need to reduce their mortgage and downsize.’”

“McLernon listed a log home with acreage a few days ago. Almost immediately, she said she began receiving ‘a huge number of inquiries from people who are considering second homes.’ The response was so unexpected, she said she began asking callers why they were interested.”

“‘A lot of them are saying, ‘The money in my 401(k) is going down. … They’re saying, ‘If I buy a second home soon, not only do I get the enjoyment of a second home, but the property will appreciate and more likely than not, will end up being a better gain for me in the long run,’ McLernon said.”

“In the same way, she said, October’s uptick in sales indicates ‘the buying public is finally starting to listen to us, that there are tremendous buying opportunities out there, and interest rates are at historic lows.’”

“Sales are important now, regardless of the product, McLernon said. ‘We, as a public, we need to invest in our country. We need to buy cars. Everyone can’t be paralyzed,’ she said. ‘People are afraid. But to spur our economy to keep us strong, as a buying public, we need to buy when it is appropriate.’”

From WVEC. “In the hard-hit real estate sector, Virginia in October saw a tenfold increase in the number of home foreclosures since 2004. People who held onto their homes have seen their equity wither the past two years. One telling measure from the Washington, D.C., market is that the percentage of people who forfeited deposits they had put down on contract to buy a house increased from 4 percent in 2005 to spike at 66 percent in August, largely a measure of buyers who could not secure financing, according to a George Mason University analysis.”

“In dismaying detail, legislative budget writers got their fullest look Tuesday at a darkening fiscal crisis that will soon force them to cut government priorities once held harmless. ‘You are at the juncture where all the low-hanging fruit is gone,’ members of the House Appropriations Committee learned from the chief of the committee staff, Robert Vaughn.”

“The credit crisis has brought an end to discretionary shopping and consumers are avoiding frills, explaining why upscale retailers are suffering and discount chains such as Wal-Mart that cater to basic needs remain profitable, said legislative fiscal analyst Ann Oman. ‘Americans don’t stop spending when they run out of money. They stop spending when they run out of credit. That’s what appears to be happening,’ she said.”

The Washington Independent. “With graffiti-scarred walls, an overgrown lawn strewn with crushed cardboard boxes and empty cans and a rusted swing set next door, it’s fair to say that the foreclosed townhouse, part of a complex called Irongate in suburban Prince William County, Va., doesn’t have a lot going for it. It’s hard to tell if things look any better on the inside, since someone broke the lockbox and stole the key.”

“The unit sold in 2005 for $285,000, but these days it’s going for $50,000 — and it’s still been sitting on the market for more than six months, with no takers in sight. Places hit hard by the foreclosure crisis, like Prince William County, are dealing with hundreds, and sometimes thousands, of abandoned and deteriorating properties like the Irongate townhouse.”

“Despite a commute that can take an hour or more, Prince William boomed during the last decade, as buyers flocked to brand-new, spacious homes on wooded lots, or to affordable middle-class rowhouses. It soon became one of the country’s fastest growing areas, emblematic of the expansion of the exurbs around the country. Housing values skyrocketed.”

“The housing bust was just as dramatic. Foreclosures rose from 246 in 2006 to 2,800 in 2007, and the county expects more than 7,000 this year, said finance director Christopher Martino. It’s the highest number of any jurisdiction in Virginia.”

“Some 5.5 percent of the county’s housing was in some stage of foreclosure last spring, according to the George Mason University Center for Regional Analysis. Home values have also taken a tumble, down 30 percent this year for single family homes and 40 percent for townhouses. With the economy weakening, and many loan resets expected next year on interest-only mortgages, more foreclosures could be coming down the pike, Martino said.”

“Sales of foreclosed houses are soaring in the meantime — but prices aren’t going up. Average sale prices dropped by $90,000 between January and October, said local realtor Keith Elliott Jr.”

“In a subdivison of more upscale houses, in nearby Gainesville, a spacious three-bedroom home looks nearly untouched by damage except for some stained carpeting. But the orange stickers noting that it’s been winterized are dated from December 2007, meaning the home has been vacant for nearly a year, despite its sales price of $270,900, well below its assessed value of $327,100.”

“Elliott said he’s not surprised. ‘There’s just a huge volume of houses like this all throughout Prince William County,’ he said.”




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88 Comments »

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-25 09:57:37

Greenwich Meantime is running out…

“About one in four sales are bank-owned properties or short sales, in which the lender agrees to accept a sales price below the balance owed on the mortgage, said real estate agent Julie Longtin, in East Greenwich, R.I.”

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-25 10:02:55

“Schell Bros. President Chris Schell said sales are ugly right now, but that people should realize when it gets this bad, it’s good.’

Yep. And when I throw up, it means I love your casserole, and when I punch you in the stomach, it means…I love you.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 10:35:11

This whole thing has left me w/ that feeling you may have had when you really “over did it” when you were younger on something really dumb ( like Southern Comfort ) 7 years later this “belch out of nowhere” appears and you can taste it like it was last night!

Then you re-live the entire horrifying ordeal like it was happening in real time. Has anyone ever had that happen? Not necessarily w/ SC but maybe something else? Now imagine every day is like that!

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-25 11:14:01

Are you saying you don’t like my casserole?! You weenie! I even put peas in it!

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 11:44:14

Olympiagal,

My “demon” was rum. Or “rhum” if you prefer.

( When you can pick up a 5th for about 25 cents U.S, what possible use do you have for food? )

Anyway, I ‘used’ to think I was pretty durned tough but this latest round of queasy-inducing debacles is more than any of us should have to endure.

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Comment by Rancher
2008-11-25 16:22:28

One night with Gallo red was enough…

 
 
Comment by Otis Wildflower
2008-11-25 12:02:32

QUICK! Kick him in the icehole!!

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Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-25 12:23:00

Hahahaha! That’s one of my favorite jokes!

I’m not very good with jokes. I usually start sputtering with laughter at how funny it is, and by the punchline I’m not comprehensible any more.
Sigh.

 
 
 
Comment by hd74man
2008-11-25 15:25:51

RE: Has anyone ever had that happen?

Years ago, my best bud downed a 5th of Southern Comfort (the nastiest) in the afternoon hours on Saturday of a Quebec City Winter Carnival weekend.

He was a mess.

Kept hangin’ off the end of my coat, mumbling’ “I can believe I drank the whole thing.”

Finally, he and another miscreant inebriate, who barfed on his table at the local Pop-eye’s, crawled away to sleep it off in the attic of some apartment house and missed the big parade of French Canadian gals shakin’ their ta’s ta’s on the floats in the big parade and later at all the crazed strip clubs.

After watching his fiasco I never went near the stuff.

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-25 16:06:39

‘After watching his fiasco I never went near the stuff.’

Nohow! ‘Cause then you’d miss the French ta-ta’s! We can’t have that.
Also, I admire how you use the word ‘miscreant’. One of my favorite words. And also that shows us all how wise and non-miscreanty you are. *laughs heartily*

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Comment by Al
2008-11-25 10:38:16

And of course when sales are high and prices are rising, that’s good too! And when we’re in a balanced market, it’s also good because things are stable. It’s always a good time to buy.*

So Olygal, have you thought about showing GWB or HP or BB how much you love them?

* it’s always a good time for the REIC for you to buy.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 11:14:39

Be that as it may it will now be incumbent on BHO to fix the global economy so the rest of the world can back to hating us.

I mean, it’s worked so well for so long ( why change things now? )

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-11-25 11:18:54

‘So Olygal, have you thought about showing GWB or HP or BB how much you love them?’

Oh, Al, I sure as heckfire have! I think of little else, some days.
First, though, I think I’ll visit some of the builders and developers right around here and show THEM my love. I frequently walk around muttering to myself and clenching my fists and wondering if kapowsin silt loam would be the best soil for body disposal. I certainly would not want to pollute a wetland, of course, but on the other hand digging is hard work.

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-25 10:06:26

“‘These numbers are translating into job losses,’ he said. Before the current crisis, the securities industry accounted for 5 percent of New York City’s employment but nearly 25 percent of the wages.”

It’s a funny name ’securities industry’, in retrospect…

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-25 13:17:49

I’ve always been annoyed at the use of the word “industry” to describe businesses that neither manufacture anything nor retrieve any natural resource. Mortgage industry? Psychotherapy industry? Petcare industry? Pulleezzz. “Securities scam” would be an appropriate term, but I wouldn’t be too offended at “securities business.”

Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-25 14:13:30

I always liked “civil rights industry.”

Comment by aNYCdj
2008-11-25 14:39:30

I’ll see your ACORN and raise it with The Rainbow Coalition…

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Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-25 17:49:08

All right. I’ll see you with Diversity Training and raise you the Sensitivity Industry. No other nuts, walnuts or otherwise, allowed. All in.

 
 
 
Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 15:45:05

Oh I don’t feel that way at all. ( After all they DO call it the “sex trade industry” ) Where “I” take exception is when they want to call it a “firm”.

Sorry but two high pressure ex-stockbrokers currently peddling mortgages don’t constitute what I’d call a “firm”. If they want to say they’re a “shop” or whatever then I’m fine w/ that.

I ‘do’ want to get a copy of “Winners Never Cheat” though.

 
 
Comment by Eudemon
2008-11-25 18:20:44

Ye, it is.

It reminds one of the fallacy of *Social Security*. What is social or secure about a bankrupt racketeering outfit that holds a gun in your face - and in exchange, you lose your earnings and your freedom?

Albeit Macht Frei.

Comment by reuven
2008-11-26 06:55:46

Wait for Obama to uncap it! Everyone making over $110,000/year will get a 15% tax increase…and get nothing in return.

Comment by HARM
2008-11-26 12:09:39

Ummm…. technically right now everyone making over $106k (adjusted each year for inflation) *is* getting “something for nothing”. You are eligible for S.S. welfare benefits without having anything withheld above that limit from your paycheck. While your lesser-heeled compatriots are paying the full 6.2% withholding, you have a lower rate, depending upon your total gross income.

We’ve had socialism for the rich for the last 28+ years, and a skyrocketing gap between rich & working class to show for it. How’s about a little ‘old-school’ socialism for a change? About time the pendulum swung back a bit IMO.

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Comment by Pondering the Mess
2008-11-25 10:09:44

Sad to see that the Bubble continues in Maryland, the land of $280,000 houses that are 90-years old and built in flood zones. The idiots in this state still don’t get it; just last week, some clown was whining that his house that is “worth” $850,000 (over 10 times the median household income for the state) may only be “worth” $750,000 now… but it is a “nice house” so clearly price doesn’t matter!

At this point, I am pretty well convinced that Maryland, along with several other East Coast states, will never return to affordable levels unless you are making twice the median household income.

Yeah, talk about “Mission Accomplished!”

Comment by KR
2008-11-25 11:31:09

I live in Maryland. I thought it was different here…

teeheeteehee

 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2008-11-25 10:15:09

has RI had any jobs since Quonsett closed ?
I grew up there, no one ever goes back

Comment by Northeastener
2008-11-25 12:05:29

has RI had any jobs since Quonsett closed ?

RI has the second highest unemployment rate in the nation, right behind Michigan… 9.4% I think.

Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-25 14:16:54

Northeaster…
Please recall that some cities and counties have even higher unemployment rates.
Fresno: 11.1 percent, govt. stat. Counting those who are politely called undocumented, the number would be at least in the mid-teens.

 
Comment by Tango in Uniform
2008-11-25 17:49:01

There’s a mid-90’s documentary that gives some excellent insight into the R.I. economy. You should check it out sometime. A few choice lines:

“There’s not a single job in this town.” “Yeah, unless you want to work 40 hours a week.”

“We got no food, we got no jobs, our pets’ heads are falling off!!!”

Comment by KenWPA
2008-11-25 20:58:49

Dumb and Dumber……Great Movie. I have to wonder if those two couldn’t have done a better job of managing this fiasco than the idiots that were put in charge.

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Comment by abdul tikritii
2008-11-25 10:16:15

what will it take for these millions of obstinate “my house is special and worth more” idiots to have reality knocked into their heads? we need more news stories of them weeping as they sell a house for 20% of what they paid.

 
Comment by abdul tikritii
2008-11-25 10:19:53

“If you’re going to live in it for five years, and make a house a home, it’s a great time to buy. … Banks are working with people. It’s an excellent time to buy.”

How many GODDAMN TIMES has some variation of those phrases been quoted in these excellent pages? These future lap dancers and burger flippers keep parroting the stock phrases that must be fed into their brains through their tooth fillings!

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-25 10:27:43

“‘When I first became the sheriff, I would grant anybody all the time they needed to settle with the bank,’ said Spicuzzo who said a judge then called him in and explained that, by law, sheriffs are obligated to sell foreclosed homes on scheduled dates or risk becoming personally responsible for the debt.”

“‘I’ll schedule sheriff’s sales for this next coming Tuesday, and I can’t stand selling a person’s house two days before Thanksgiving, and two days before Christmas,’ said Spicuzzo. ‘But you know, that’s my job, and I feel really bad about doing it.”’

Ode to Tom Waits…

Take my home
You silly boy
Put your arms against me
Take my home
You silly boy
All the world’s not around without you

I’m so sorry that I broke your heart
Please don’t leave or risk personal responsibility
Take my home
You silly boy
Cause you’re still in love with you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XewO1DB96To

 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-25 10:43:06

“‘A lot of them are saying, ‘The money in my 401(k) is going down. … They’re saying, ‘If I buy a second home soon, not only do I get the enjoyment of a second home, but the property will appreciate and more likely than not, will end up being a better gain for me in the long run,’ McLernon said.”
====================================================

A financial compound fracture, yeah-that’s the ticket…

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2008-11-25 12:32:59

Such messages could do an awful lot of damage to those obsessed with retirement. If the vultures really tap into their mounting desparation we might wind up knee deep homeless senior citizens someday.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 12:48:54

edge,

And some day soon. As I’m sure you’ll recall much of what made for the the housing boom came at the stock market’s expense. Some will argue in the wake of of Ebbers, Kozlowski and the like, that it was well deserved.

Be that as it may, the constant vacillation between two competing ( and commissioned ) groups, is almost assured of attaining that result. The LAST thing anyone should be advocating now is supporting prices in distant bubble markets. ( You won’t get ‘that’ much “enjoyment” out of it! )

We spent the weekend in Klamath Falls, OR and the asking prices there are still *not to be believed.

Comment by Rancher
2008-11-25 16:32:40

Here in Grants Pass split by the Rogue river, and with homes down about 20%, you’d think we were in Egypt instead of southern Oregon.

Josephine county is headed for 500 foreclosures
by the end of the year

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Comment by joelkton
2008-11-25 20:02:45

What is it with Oregon, anyway? I mean, what’s in K Falls? There’s no possible, and I mean NO possible way K Falls should have inflated housing.

Oregon seems to me like a grenade with the pin pulled. I’m waiting for a really big bang.

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Comment by rms
2008-11-26 01:27:24

Last time we drove south we stayed in Klamath Falls, OR. My son spotted a lift-kit pickup truck sporting a pair of rubber gonads dangling from the rear bumber and a Stars and Bars in the rear window. When we pulled along side the driver glowered at us like a junk yard dog; a real class act.

 
 
 
 
Comment by fries with that?
2008-11-25 12:47:37

No way this is true. Hey honey! We just lost half the money in our 401(k), so let’s run out and buy a log home!

Over the last few years on this blog, we’ve read about people who did stupid, irrational things, but there’s got to be a limit…

Somebody back me up on this. Somebody?

 
Comment by GSfixer
2008-11-25 13:02:24

Lately, it seems that the only growth in the US economy is in new schemes to seperate stupid people from their money.

Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-25 13:10:30

“Nobody ever went broke underestimating the American public.”

H.L. Mencken

Comment by Neil
2008-11-25 14:03:04

You wouldn’t believe the number of coworkers clearing out their 401k’s (or other investments) as they are afraid that stock prices will continue to drop! So they’re buying homes that *almost* cash flow on paper. They yap about how great an investment it is… Yet they do not *yet* have a renter…

This train wreck will be huge. For these investments are predicated upon appreciation and *selling* to the next greater fool. Its killing rents in too many markets. Those buying in 2nd home markets will get so slapped around by the frozen trout that they’ll have scales all over their body.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

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Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 14:58:20

Neil,

*fries with that? has his answer. I’ve seen a few examples locally myself. More specifically people that pilfered from “cash accounts” ( but I have no reason to doubt you )

So here we go again. The only way to level the playing field will be to make profits from a 401K accessible every other year just like a primary residence and allow 401K plan participants to lever their investments up to 98%.

( That’s just how ridiculous it is )

 
Comment by reuven
2008-11-26 06:43:52

With the tax hit and the penalty, you’d have to hit one out of the ballpark to make cashing out your 401K to buy an “investment” home a good deal! I’d bet that NOBODY will come out ahead with a maneuver like this.

 
 
 
Comment by bluprint
2008-11-25 13:47:26

It’s immoral to let a sucker keep his money.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 16:37:03

bluprint,

I glossed over that a few times, because it really IS a simplistic “connect the dots” statement but…

As someone noted just the other day, dots can be directly adjacent ( and still not be connected ) and just because two ‘are’ connected ( doesn’t mean they’re by any means close )

What happens when we take a non-sucker ( in a 30 yr. FRM ) and tell him he’s a millionaire in the making ( he just doesn’t realize it yet? ) Still not taking the bait? How about giving him a cash out re-fi AND I/O payments? O.K…. how about an ARM w/ sooooper low introductory payments?

At ’some’ point most all of us would buckle and give in. Obviously many ‘did’.

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Comment by WT Economist
2008-11-25 10:48:34

A fellow parishioner had decided to sell their house on a prime block and move to a lesser Brooklyn neighborhood and bank some cash. They had an open house. No one came. Zero.

They can afford to just stay where they are. Owners of new condo buildings and young masters of the universe who spent every dime in the fat years, however, will have to sell.

 
Comment by DennisN
2008-11-25 11:29:47

“But the orange stickers noting that it’s been winterized are dated from December 2007, meaning the home has been vacant for nearly a year… ”

Coming from San Jose I had never seen such stickers before. But they appear frequently here in Boise. Property management guys can deal with the plumbing but I’ll bet there is hidden damage since so many modern appliances are electronics-intensive: furnaces, microwaves, regular ovens, alarms, and the like. Semiconductor devices may take a great reliability hit if cold-soaked down around 0 F.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 11:48:00

DennisN,

There’s… something I hadn’t considered. Even military aviation ( EMP Hardened wiring ) doesn’t hold up well in that environment. Let alone mass produced “upgrade” appliances.

 
Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2008-11-25 11:55:06

Don’t forget the repeated cycles of condensation, freezing, and evaporation from not having a controled environment. This alone produces more degradation than cold itself.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 12:53:02

Right, and -unlike- the military, there isn’t a staff of salaried technicians at-the-ready to maintain it. Constant heat can be a battle too.

 
 
Comment by Houstonstan
2008-11-25 14:29:50

Dennis - actually not. Commercial spec parts are 0C but they are often same ones used in industrial -40C specification (Just additional testing). If they get wet then frozen, then that is a different matter but just going to cold themselves shouldn’t be an issue. The LCD on the otherhand may not like the cold.

Btw: A CMOS semiconductor improves it’s speed performance at cold temp.

Comment by DennisN
2008-11-25 16:36:28

Well it’s been a long time since I did mil-spec stuff but IIRC the plastic DIP parts were good to 0 C and the ceramic DIPs to -25 C. But -25 C is only about -15 F and I’ll bet unheated houses in Michigan get that cold in the winter.

Now that I thing about it more, home applicances probably have to be stored in unheated warehouses during shipping so maybe they did plan for them to get that cold.

I guess my point is that how expensive is it really to keep an empty REO heated to 40-45 degrees F during the winter so the wear and tear on the house is minimized.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 17:17:38

DennisN,

It’s just a new wrinkle in that up until now, most of the “moth balling” issues have centered around homes confronting the desert heat.

You have to wonder about all the “jetted tubs”, intercom systems and pre-wired home entertainment cr@p too?

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Comment by Blue Skye
2008-11-25 11:35:51

“But my clients know what’s going on. If I said, ‘Buy now, you’re going to miss it,’ I’m going to insult their intelligence.’”

Who thought a realator was capable of uttering these words?!

Comment by stewie
2008-11-25 12:51:52

Not me. The NAR must be revoking his membership as we type.

 
 
Comment by Northeastener
2008-11-25 12:15:24

Prices are coming down, but are still high… saw this in a dead-tree real estate mag, considered calling on it for about a minute, then came to my senses:

Short Sale. Freetown. Colonial w/ 2 car attached garage. 5 bedroom, 4 bath, 1.6 acres, living room, formal dining room, office, finished basement, in-ground heated pool, jacuzi, sprinkler system, invisible fence. $499,000

Freetown is 45 minutes to Boston (no traffic), 30 minutes to the Quincy/Braintree T, 15 minutes to Bridgewater Commuter Rail. Granted their were some cult things going on in the State Park their and then their was the serial killer/dead prostitute thing some years ago, but otherwise a quaint, rural town.

Comment by Northeastener
2008-11-25 12:17:19

“their” should be “there” in a few places… need coffee.

Comment by Pinch-a-penny
2008-11-25 12:28:15

Huh? No traffic into Boston? You have to either take 24,or go through Brockton. neither of these is pleasant. Then you get to hit the 93-3 spli that gets really hairy in the morning, believe me, this is not an easy commute. I work in Braintree, next to the btree red line, and I have seen the mess in the south shore…

Comment by Northeastener
2008-11-25 13:53:53

Didn’t mean to imply there is no traffic, rather it is a 45 minute drive from Freetown if/when there is no traffic…

I commute from a bit farther south and either take the T out of Quincy or the train out of Bridgewater, so I know how nasty traffic can get heading into or out of Boston M-F. And when there is no traffic, you have construction, so you still have delays.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-25 12:36:39

You’ll get it for half in a few years. Assuming you are still interested which you won’t be because the commute is onerous.

Comment by Northeastener
2008-11-25 13:05:28

You’ll get it for half in a few years.

FPSS, if you’re right, on the day of the closing, I’ll buy a bottle of Dom and toast to you, Ben Jones, and the whole HBB crew… then throw it up on YouTube so due credit is given.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-25 13:58:43

I’ll give you a second prediction:

It will be half-price but both you and I will be in no mood to buy it when that happens.

 
 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-11-25 12:31:21

$49,000 and you have a market. Even then I’d low ball them.

 
 
Comment by MidnightSunshine
2008-11-25 12:52:29

Oh for goodness sake–not another “foreclosure bus tour” . . .

Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-25 13:59:01

Midnight….
Dunno if this is a trend or not. But I saw that a foreclosure bus tour has been put together hereabouts by a *bank*, not a realty group, or loss mitigation guys/gals with inventory.
A bank is putting on a bus foreclosure tour. I would bet 100 pesos or yuan that it was Countrywide, but didn’t call to confirm.
I’m young enough to remember when they gave away toasters to attract business. ;>
Come to think of it, I want some free Green Stamps to go on the tour.

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-11-25 13:05:15

‘Make sure you present only valid sales — properties on the open market that have been sold in a competitive fashion and not under duress,’ Vitsucka said. ‘Foreclosures are considered under duress.’”

La La La La , Don’t bring us real numbers, we don’t want to lower taxes !

 
Comment by cereal
2008-11-25 13:07:41

“Sales are important now, regardless of the product, McLernon said. ‘We, as a public, we need to invest in our country. We need to buy cars. Everyone can’t be paralyzed,’ she said. ‘People are afraid. But to spur our economy to keep us strong, as a buying public, we need to buy when it is appropriate.’”

C’mon gang. Let’s get out there and buy up those houses. You know, take one for the team.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 13:18:58

cereal,

There ‘would’ be validity to the statement if there were scores of potential ( and qualified ) buyers out there say driving around on a “Temporary Spare” yet unwilling to get off their wallet? But that isn’t the case then is it?

One of the best comments I read about the auto bailout was someone questioning why we need legions of “engineers” toiloing away at how to best reposition cup holders for this year’s model?

 
Comment by Shelby
2008-11-25 13:21:14

Sure I’ll buy now (and knife/cleaver catch!) and “take one for the team”

Only if I can get a 1999 price in NoVa.

There are still tons of FB’S in Prince William listing homes for 850 K and more.

Guess they didn’t get the memo that this County (and Loudoun too) are THRASHED by foreclosures.

Comment by dc_renter
2008-11-25 19:31:46

Yeah, so what’s going in Arlington, VA? Rents are going up, and real estate is so ridiculously high? So far, it really is different here.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2008-11-25 13:25:11

I’m delighted to buy stuff I actually want. Planning to take the next teenaged relative to Tanzania at Christmas 2009. The older brother liked Kenya a lot. I like buying stuff that can’t POSSIBLY masquerade as an “investment.”

P.S. If any HBBer’s are interested in Tanzania and willing to pay for themselves, join our group. Cost from NYC under $10K/person but more than $5K. Trip maybe 12 days.

Comment by DinOR
2008-11-25 13:51:57

“toiling”?

“I’m delighted to buy stuff I actually want”

Exactly, and if you really, truly were ‘that’ unhappy about the specific placement of your cupholders you’d be trading that puppy in, in a heartbeat, right?

Have a nice trip!

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-11-25 14:03:09

I’d be interested.

Comment by az_lender
2008-11-25 19:32:18

FPSS, you can email me, it’s mimigerstell (at) yahoo (dot) com, I don’t have exact prices yet but can give you some other particulars.

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Comment by milkcrate
2008-11-25 14:07:45

Az…
You gonna make it up Kilimanjaro? Highly recommended, cuz the ascent over five days is gradual, cept the last 1,000 feet or so. Jungly bottomland unforgettable. Parents treated be to an overseas trip there when I was a teen.
No abacus needed: Idi Amin was still in power in Uganda. We went anyway, though tour operator was concerned cuz non-national merchants were being booted out… with just the shirts on their back.
you prolly wouldn’t anyway, but please don’t buy any ivory.

 
Comment by polly
2008-11-25 15:41:40

Oh…that sounds like a good trip….

 
 
 
Comment by aladinsane
2008-11-25 14:01:12

“Dharma Bums refusing to subscribe to the general demand that they consume production and therefore have to work for the privilege of consuming, all that crap they didn’t really want anyway such as refrigerators, TV sets, cars, at least new fancy cars, certain hair oils and deodorants and general junk you finally always see a week later in the garbage anyway, all of them imprisoned in a system of work, produce, consume, work, produce, consume.”

Jack Kerouac

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-11-25 16:47:46

“‘I had a few buyers who work for the investment banks or brokerage houses. Some of them have just disappeared,’ Lippman said.”

I wouldn’t say they’ve disappeared. One tried to bum some spare change off me just the other day.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-11-25 19:48:32

Usually on an outing in downtown Portland, I get hit up maybe once for change.

Yesterday, I had 5 people ask me for money and that was only on the way TO the restaurant.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-11-25 19:51:25

Oh, and the restaurant had maybe 10 people when we got there at 6:30, 5 when we left. It probably seats 150.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-11-25 16:49:36

“Schell Bros. President Chris Schell said sales are ugly right now, but that people should realize when it gets this bad, it’s good.’

George Orwell called. He wants his quote back.

 
Comment by dc_renter
2008-11-25 19:29:18

Watching NBC news tonight with Brian whatshisname. Had a segment on how ***everybody*** is crying about financial woes. Interviewed a couple in their 60’s who lived in their house for 35 years, t h i r t y - f i v e y e a r s and were losing it to foreclosure. The message was that we were supposed to feel sorry for this forlorn couple who after 35 years were unable to pay off their modest house. I suppose a 6th grader would buy this line of crap..but the general public of average intelligence? Then we were subjected to NBC’s insinuation that the *whole country* was in the same boat. And they were all poor pitiful victims. As Brian “I live in New Canaan, CT and make millions promoting this crap” said in closing, it is a sign of the times. BS. It was unsurpassed greed, materialism, and mindboggling irresponsibility that got the majority of these fools in their situation. There is a bizarre twisting of the truth going on in the media that is disturbing….we’re just a nation of “victims”. Jeez, we’re screwed.

Comment by Michael Fink
2008-11-25 19:52:43

How in the f*** could that happen? 35 years ago there were ONLY 30 year MTGs available (amortizing, not interest only). So, basically, these people cashed out the equity in their homes and now were losing it? And this is a “sob story”. Why not ask them what they bought with the few 100K (tax free, I might add) that they sucked out of the house? Or ask them if they feel responsible for the multi-trillion dollars that their neighbors now have to pay to repair the financial system because of their stupidity.

Come on, NBC can do better then this. Find someone being taxed out of their home. But, someone who HELOCed their house to death? This is the best sob story they can come up with?

 
Comment by reuven
2008-11-26 06:50:37

That’s one of the most surprising things about this mess: the lack of Outrage from the majority of Americans.

Take the 30% of people who rent, and the 30% of people who own their homes free and clear. Add in the people who have fixed-rated mortgages and no seconds or HELOCs and live within their means. You have a clear majority.

20% of Americans were extremely irresponsible. Let’ add another 10% for people that have crazy credit-card debt, which may overlap with the groups above, and make that 30%.

Where’s the outrage? Why aren’t more people saying “NO Bailouts for Wall Street OR Main Street?” They were in a co-dependent relationship, neither one more innocent than the other.

Why can’t we concentrate on assisting those folks who had nothing to do with this mess?

 
 
Comment by dc_renter
2008-11-25 20:30:38

I just listened to the clip again on the msnbc website. Gary’s construction business fell apart and he can no longer pay his mortgage — after living in the house for 35 years. So they’re selling it ….sniffle. The just of the segment was how everybody was now talking openly about their stupidity, I mean money problems. It’s “cathartic” and no longer a shameful thing. So says NBC and Brian whatshisname. Yep, take no responsibility for your screw-ups, oh we are so screwed.

 
Comment by HARM
2008-11-26 12:16:35

The Boston Herald from Massachusetts. “Eviction filings in state housing court hit a new high in the last fiscal year as the faltering economy and a worsening foreclosure crisis pushed more than 20,000 Bay Staters to the brink of homelessness.

Yes… that’s their only choice: (1) be allowed to stay in houses they’ve already defaulted on or (2) become homeless. There is no “rent” –*not* an option! Why, asking such people to rent would be like… like… asking CEOs of bankrupt companies to fly *coach* for God’s sake!

 
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