It’s Like A Big Bomb Went Off In Florida
The St Petersburg Times reports from Florida. “A national report released Tuesday said Florida leads the nation in mortgage fraud. As the report was being released, a federal jury in Broward County was returning guilty verdicts in a scam case that included $5-million in fraudulent mortgages. Howard Gaines, a lawyer who worked as a title agent, was accused of falsifying closing documents. Gaines has not been charged in connection with any of his work in Hillsborough County, where he processed one-third of the home sales by a Tampa tattoo parlor owner named Sang-Min Kim.”
“Sonny Kim, as he’s known, was profiled in a St. Petersburg Times story Sunday that recounted his flipping of properties, about one-third of which have been foreclosed. The story pointed to some questionable mortgages, including one for $300,000 on a run-down house that now can be had for $35,000.”
“Since 2004, Kim has bought and sold about 90 homes in some of Tampa’s poorest neighborhoods. Property records show buyers paid Kim $10.7-million for homes he bought for $6.5-million. Many homes that Kim sold ended up in foreclosure, meaning that many of the same banks that are now getting billions in a federal bailout were left with worthless property.”
“Gaines was convicted of one count of conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud and two counts of mail fraud. He is scheduled to be sentenced in February. The maximum sentence is 45 years in prison. ‘I’d like to see him get more prison (time); he’s done some bad things,’ said Doug Pollock, a property crimes expert who testified in the trial. ‘I think some prosecutor (in Hillsborough) will use this conviction to say, ‘I want a piece of him, too.’”
“First Franklin approved a $138,000 mortgage for a yellow clapboard house on N 34th Street that Kim sold in 2006. The buyer defaulted within months. It’s listed now at $29,000. ‘Amazing. I didn’t know you could get such high prices in that part of Tampa,’ said Dianne Hart, CEO of the East Tampa Business and Civic Association, which builds houses in struggling neighborhoods. ‘And the banks approved these mortgages? Well, I guess that explains why we’re in the situation that we’re in.’”
“Inez Albury is the only name from First Franklin that appears on the public documents for that loan and two others in Sonny Kim deals that defaulted. Her job was ‘closer.’ During the good times, Albury described an assembly line approach to keep up with demand at her office. Managers made it clear they needed to hit their numbers each month.”
“The pressure was intense by 2006 and early 2007, she said. She reviewed as many as 20 loan applications a day, sending each one down the line to a title agency, sometimes just minutes before a closing. She never rejected one. ‘We had quotas we had to meet,’ Albury said. ‘We didn’t have time to look at them.’”
From Tampa Bays 10. “Hudson and Marshall will host a home auction in Tampa today where dozens of foreclosed homes will be up for grabs. The event takes place just one day after Florida Governor Charlie Crist announced his support of a moratorium on foreclosures on primary residential properties to help families at risk of losing their homes, especially during the holidays.”
“‘I don’t think it will have much of an impact on the local housing market. Unfortunately, it’s just prolonging the inevitable, but I do think it’s a good will gesture by the Governor,’ said Jeremiah Bustin from Vicinity Realty.
“Bustin is a third generation Tampa real estate agent. He says the freeze on foreclosures won’t affect his business because the market is already flooded with foreclosed homes.”
The Herald Tribune. “A two-year crackdown on code violators has cost the city about $340,000 in legal fees, double the amount North Port has collected in fines. Since 2006, North Port has collected only $171,000 of the almost $2 million owed in fines levied for a variety of code infractions, ranging from overgrown lawns to improperly parked cars and building permit paperwork problems.”
“The problem is, even with a favorable court judgment, some property owners cannot or will not pay. And if a bank forecloses on a house, the city might see little or no payment. In other words, the days of selling houses for vastly more than was initially paid for them — the backbone of the lien collection system — are over.”
“‘You can’t get blood from a stone,’ said Commissioner Vanessa Carusone. ‘Let’s face it.’”
“Carusone said she would like to ‘call off the dogs’ when it comes to city liens. ‘It’s a losing proposition,’ she said. ‘You’re not going to get money out of these people.’”
“Another property owned by prominent Venice developer Mike Miller has slipped into foreclosure proceedings after Wal-Mart pulled back from developing a store on the site off Laurel Road. Miller has struggled to meet the debt obligations for his large real estate holdings in recent months, with banks moving to seize a condo development in Bradenton, condos in Venice and vacant land in Englewood.”
“Miller’s lender has its own problems. Orion Bank, one of Southwest Florida’s most aggressive lenders during the real estate boom, is struggling under a heavy burden of nonperforming loans. Other local borrowers sued by Orion include home builders Andrew Coles of Jade Homes; Ronald Mustari of Sarasota-based Whitehall Homes; David Lewis of Palmetto-based DL Homes; and Jack LeFrock and Roger Van Wie of Coastal Cottages of Sarasota.”
“Miller does not believe Orion wants to seize his land. ‘I have something they’re calling a protocol letter, which means they filed foreclosure but they really don’t want the property,’ he said. ‘They want us to get Wal-Mart back or sell it to the bogeyman, I guess.’”
The Orlando Sentinel. “Central Florida businesses are failing at a pace not seen in at least a decade. The first hint of trouble at Kornerstone Tops arrived in 2007. Until its final year, the 7-year-old Orlando company had carved a profitable niche installing Italian-made granite veneer on top of existing counters. It placed counters in homes, businesses, boats, motor coaches and more than 3,000 Walt Disney World hotel rooms, owner Paul Lane said.”
“‘When the mortgage crisis hit, the phones stopped ringing,’ he said.”
“‘I’ve been doing this for 28 years,’ Orlando bankruptcy lawyer Frank Wolff said. ‘It’s like a big bomb went off.’”
“Vickie McCormick and her husband, Michael, are not looking forward to Dec. 22. That’s the day Florida Made Door Co. will begin suspending operations at its plant next to the couple’s My Hero Sub Shop and lay off up to 80 employees. The McCormicks count on business from the door factory, whose office managers and blue-collar workers often stop by to grab a bite to eat during their lunch breaks. ‘It’s going to kill us,’ Vickie McCormick said this week as she prepared a breaded-chicken sandwich for a door-factory employee. ‘We don’t know if we’ll be able to afford it.’”
“‘This action is the result of a continuing decline in the U.S. housing market,’ Mike Fout, vice president of Florida Made’s interior door division for North America, wrote in an e-mail to the Orlando Sentinel.”
“Gloria Lee was told a few days before Thanksgiving that she will lose her job at Florida Made. She has worked at the plant for more than 10 years. ‘It’s hard right now. There’s nothing out there,’ she said. ‘You can’t even get a job flipping burgers right now.’”
The Associated Press. “Max Rameau delivers his sales pitch like a pro. ‘All tile floor!’ he says during a recent showing. ‘And the living room, wow! It has great blinds.’”
“But in nearly every other respect, he is unlike any real estate agent you’ve ever met. He is unshaven, drives a beat-up car and wears grungy cut-off sweat pants. He also breaks into the homes he shows. And his clients don’t have a dime for a down payment. Rameau is an activist who has been executing a bailout plan of his own around Miami’s empty streets: He is helping homeless people illegally move into foreclosed homes.’
“‘We’re matching homeless people with people-less homes,’ he said with a grin.”
“With the recession and the collapse of the housing market, more and more couples who have broken up are continuing to live under the same roof, according to judges and divorce lawyers. Some are waiting for housing prices to rebound; some are trying to get back on their feet financially.”
“These days, Florida Judge John C. Lenderman said, about a third of his cases involve homes that are in foreclosure or that a family is struggling to sell. Lenderman said he has never seen anything like it in 40 years as a lawyer and judge. ‘They just can’t do anything, financially,’ he said. ‘I’ve actually got a number of people, guys who are saying they’re sleeping in their cars or pickup trucks, not paying their child support or anything. I’ve got some folks here who are down to flipping burgers.’”
“Linda Melville filed for divorce from John, her husband of 13 years, in August. Four months later, the estranged couple are still living on the same property in St. Petersburg, Fla. Linda was laid off from her job in October and said she cannot afford to rent a place on her own. And so, while she looks for a job and tries to start the next chapter of her life, she remains in the home where the couple — who had no children together — celebrated holidays, put in a back deck and laid flagstone steps together outside the front door.”
“‘Living as close as we do, it really makes it difficult to achieve closure,’ she said recently.”
The Island Reporter. “It’s all about the water. It’s the water that attracts the tourists, who fill the hotels and make purchases at local businesses, which pay the taxes, which finance government, which has a responsibility to keep that water — and the beaches — as clean as possible.”
“That’s the message City Council delivered to State Representative Gary Aubuchon Tuesday when he made an appearance at the Council’s regular meeting – and it’s a message Council asked Aubuchon to support and defend when he returns to Tallahassee in preparation for the upcoming legislative session.”
“While issues concerning water cleanliness and quality are of the utmost importance to the local economy…the Council recognized the existence of other issues affecting the economy and asked Aubuchon for his point of view on those issues. ‘We need to change the message,’ said Aubuchon, who claimed a special insight into the local economy from his position in the real estate industry. ‘We see people on vacation considering moving here, as well as citizens who are departing,’ he said. ‘So, why are they leaving?’”
“Aubuchon said that the housing boom of the past several years systematically eliminated baby boomers from the local housing market in 2005 and 2006.”
“‘With the median price of homes at $321,000 back then, many if not most baby boomers were priced right out of the market,’ said Aubuchon. ‘What we need now is a baby-boomer do-over. With median home prices in Lee County now at $140,000, those baby-boomers have the chance to retire once again. Our new message has to be that there is now a whole new chance for you to call Lee County home.’”
From the second Herald Tribune piece:
‘Miller pitched the property as the commercial centerpiece of an area east of Interstate 75. The city of Venice annexed the site and other parcels in the area beginning in the 1990s to speed up development. Builders proposed nearly 9,000 homes for the area during the real estate boom.’
And the Orlando Sentinel:
‘Vickie McCormick and her husband, Michael, are not looking forward to Dec. 22. That’s the day Florida Made Door Co. will begin suspending operations at its plant next to the couple’s My Hero Sub Shop and lay off up to 80 employees. The McCormicks count on business from the door factory, whose office managers and blue-collar workers often stop by to grab a bite to eat during their lunch breaks. ‘It’s going to kill us,’ Vickie McCormick said this week as she prepared a breaded-chicken sandwich for a door-factory employee. ‘We don’t know if we’ll be able to afford it.’
I realize that this is tough for small companies that built up around the housing industry. This mania was so huge that whole towns economies revolved around it, and it was an illusion all along. But there isn’t anything that can be done. No amount of laws or money can eliminate that fact that hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of houses were built that aren’t needed or are incompatible with economic reality.
‘What we need now is a baby-boomer do-over. With median home prices in Lee County now at $140,000, those baby-boomers have the chance to retire once again.’
This guy is onto some truth; lower housing prices aren’t the problem, but a part of the solution. This won’t fix the economy alone, but it will help.
‘What we need now is a baby-boomer do-over.’
At someone else’s expense, of course.
“…lower housing prices aren’t the problem, but a part of the solution…”
I can’t believe Congress would even consider the insane notion of subsidizing interest rates at 4.5%, in order to keep prices inflated. Cut prices and get it over with. It reminds me of the scene in “Master and Commander” where the doc is getting the patch and ball dug out of his side. Do it and get on with life, instead of risking a fatal infection.
Unfortunately, the hoodlums and the squatters are already doing one over in southwest Florida all by themselves.
Retiring Baby Boomers thinking of moving to Florida, take note: learn how to use a revolver. And don’t go to Dunkin’ Donuts after 10pm.
i’m gonna open a business where if 80 people who work nearby get laid off i go broke.. not.
Yeah, that was a fairly dumb business plan.
The entire inland empire economy (Riverside, San Bernardino) was tied to the housing industry. This will be the Florida Made Door Co. x1000.
It would be a nice dream to persuade all of those baby boomers to move to Florida to rescue strapped homeowners who bought stucco shacks at $ 340,000 a pop, and hence the local governments’ tax base, but realistically, the babyboomers I know are hanging onto their jobs for a few extra years if they can (staying employed is the key to surviving in this recession - depression-to-be, obviously ), which unfairly blocks out the next generation and the next generation, but more than that, who wants to move in next to homeless squatters ? I’m not that tough !
I have been gone from Sarasota for the past three months and have returned for a visit..what a shock! …the dry parched lawns amplifies the depression around here..there are more businesses out of business and more for rent, sale, lease signs everywhere. The local paper has daily stories on the carnage here…the county is going broke:
http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20081203/ARTICLE/812030367/2055/NEWS?Title=Bad_news_for_Sarasota_County_is_followed_by_worse
It is awful around here.
Hm, maybe they shouldn’t have spent so freely! I wonder if they are regretting the purchase of those brand-new hybrid buses. Why didn’t they keep the series ’91’s in service? They were perfectly good when we had them (RTS Gainesville). We had to give them up because they were too small for our operation–we have the highest productivity of any transit agency in Florida–as operators were afraid to take on standees on a 30′ bus with no rear door.
We used to use them on this sleepy suburban route but had to give that up as well because the old interior design couldn’t really accommodate the new-fangled giant electric scooters that invaded our system in 2006.
Some of them were not even designed to be used outside the home (and do not meet DOT guidelines) but as operators we are forced to accept them regardless!
I suspect Sarasota with its aging population has similar problems but it seems to me like they could have used the old warhorses on their quieter routes, nicht wahr?
Someday, I hope someone is able to go back and do some price-discovery on what these “unfunded mandates/regulations” actually cost.
Common sense need not apply. All it takes is one “activist” and their lawyer, and you are screwed. They usually aren’t interested in working with the “victim/perpetrator” of whatever crime against humanity they conjure up. It’s all about the cash.
The little guy complies as best he can, and pays out the nose for insurance. The deep pockets spend millions on equipment and “compliance officers” to make sure that every “i” is dotted, and every “T” is crossed.
I was in Bradenton last week and it looks similar to the Sarasota situation. Each visit, I see more small businesses closed. Sad, but I guess the proper term is “cathartic” when the economy is so far in the tank. Now if the politicians will just start to un-do some of the overspending they did in the past decade so that they can lower taxes a lot, the taxes might be manageable enough for replacement start-ups to get going once this long recession is over. IMO, it is or will be a depression, but fat chance Ben B. will ever use that term.
I think you are right about it being a depression, at least in some regions.
Detroit
Florida
Inland Empire
Pheonix
Las Vegas
all come to mind as some regions that will certainly feel like they are in a depression vs. the boom boom times they have been accustomed to over the past decade or so. (With the exception of Detroit, which has not participated in the boom years.)
“I’ve got some folks here who are down to flipping burgers.”
Good for them! I’m sure flipping burgers will turn out to be better for them than flipping houses was.
‘Good for them! I’m sure flipping burgers will turn out to be better for them than flipping houses was.’
Well, I, for one, would not consume a burger made by a former realtor, builder or developer or associated ex-minion. I mean, Jeebus! Think of the cooties!
* paws at Olytongue wildly, just thinking about all the cooties*
Icky!
Hey, at least flipping burgers adds some value to society! This might be the only job that some of these morons have ever had when they actually did something productive!
Actually my wife and I ran errands yesterday and both agreed we were starving and stopped by a Burgerville in Tualatin, OR. Anyway, unlike the sour faces of the formerly high-flyin’ REIC players, these people were having a ball!
Seriously. It has to be so much fun for them! All the stressed out/MEW moms in their SUV’s ( that used to eat ‘elsewhere’ ) are suddenly ordering entire meals from a drive-thru!
No change in “lifestyle” though for ‘this’ crowd. Remember, -before- “The Boom” we were all a lot closer in “income”.
LOL, I go to that Burgerville periodically.
40 years ago visited Fla from top to bottom. Got great burgers at a new place called Burger King that were opening on the west coast; werent many other jobs down there then. Let me know when you’re back to that point in time economically and I’ll make a return visit.
After reading this thread, i’m convinced that Mad Max will pay his 1st visit to where the Sunshine State doesn’t shine, which is most of it.
What a mess. A total mess. It’s only a matter of time before Mad Max conditions, just think of all those empty houses deteriorating in the Florida sun. Widescale squatting soon.
Wish I could find one of those in my neighborhood. Only one real foreclosure at the moment, and it has an alligator living in the backyard (maybe where the original owner went to).
I love these Florida threads. It’s like a preview of what I hope comes here to the PNW.
Yes, it’s awful, boo hooo, blah blah, but think of this! Now that this craziness has collapsed so dramatically, we might get to keep some forests and wetlands and farmlands for awhile longer! Whoo HOOO!
If only the crash had come sooner! Here in Gainesville some Vandals succeeded in getting a permit along a designated scenic highway and at once set about despoiling the place. The housing they are building is unnecessary (and sprawl), while the land they destroyed was priceless.
Shockingly, yet another new apartment complex is being built on SW 20th by the fire station even though it is certain that the three beside it, Cabana Beach I & II, the new Woodlands, and the old Melrose, renamed The District on 62nd (I had no idea DC was now cool ~_^), have atrocious vacancy rates. All of the older housing along 20th has had advertising up continuously since the beginning of the year. Vacancies are supposed to plummet by early October–not this year.
The apt complex comes onto a lot that was once a trailer park. Apparently there is no place for the poor any more in our brave new dystopia. At first the flipping frenzy fed on the homelessness it created, driving rents up as families were sent into a fanatical game of musical chairs to try to keep a roof over their heads. But inevitably with so many players in the game, greed got the best of even the prudent, with hundreds of new rooms opening, would-be condo flippers flopping, and worst of all, ugly rows of unbought ticky-tacky houses on the edge of town.
The dumbasses that built “Wildflower” (defacing a once beautiful hill with funky rental houses hidden among the trees) are still looking for renters yet have no clue as to how to market. I’m still waiting for the BK story. How could they POSSIBLY be performing on that mammoth construction loan?
I also drove around “The Bartram” (formerly Gatorwood, where Rawlins killed two of his victims) as much as I dared with their security about. It looked quite empty. Hmmm. There used to be this luxury tower on SW 13th. It was said the late Old Man Butler lived on the top floor. Was that not where the richies lived (the ones who didn’t fancy a NW Gville house with yard)? Who is going to pay $1200-$2000 a month to live at the junction of Archer and 16th Ave?
The mind boggles.
‘The mind boggles.’
And the face cries.
At least mine did. There’s so much that was ruined, and you’re right, ‘the land they destroyed was priceless’.
It was priceless, and it was destroyed, but they didn’t get it all. They didn’t manage to pave over and cut down EVERYTHING. Some of it is still left, a lot is still left, and who knows how long it might stand, now that the craziness is over and rampant greed no longer rewarded as it was?
I feel pretty hopeful, nowadays. I fact, I feel utterly f–cking cheerful.
Hey Olympia!
Actually just came back from Miami today after signing a lease for $1650 / month.
Just 6 months ago people were signing for $2100.
HOA $700 + Taxes $500-600
So unless someone bought no money down and has +-$600/ month mortgage, I’m doing better.
Ohhh Miami, illicit drugs, easy sex, sandy beaches, my kind of town.
(The penthouse was to die for at $2500 stunning!!! asking$800K)
‘Actually just came back from Miami today after signing a lease for $1650 / month.
Just 6 months ago people were signing for $2100.’
Well, who’s the smarty-pants, then?
You are, it would seem. Awesome, and congratulations to yer.
“Ohh Miami, illicit drugs, easy sex, sandy beaches, my kind of town.”
And with the money you saved with your smartness, there’s just that much more illicit drugs you can buy!
Doubleplusgood.
Drats!
Filter ate first post.
Anyways, just got back from signing a lease in Miami for $1650/month.
6 months ago I know people were signing for $2100.
HOA $700 + taxes $500-600
-
Never lived in corner 19th floor nice
Once you get much above 1300-1400 a month, that’s when the price/rent ratios start to get really nuts in FL. At 3K a month, you can rent homes that last sold 1M-1.5M. That’s insane, like you pointed out, probably doesn’t cover the taxes+insurance.
The reason is pretty simple. Median income in this area is about 40-50K. Let’s call that 3K a month take home. Anything over 1.5K a month starts to become really hard to swing, and such, those rentals just languish on the market.
The rents are reasonable, it’s the prices that are (and were) totally out of whack.
“The reason is pretty simple. Median income in this area is about 40-50K. Let’s call that 3K a month take home. Anything over 1.5K a month starts to become really hard to swing, and such, those rentals just languish on the market.”
It’s amazing that so few MSM economists are willing to examine an economic recovery from household income perspective.
Say hello to Joe Carollo and Xavier Suarez for me, will ya?
Those two had one of the biggest catfights over a mayoral seat, EVER!
“A national report released Tuesday said Florida leads the nation in mortgage fraud.”
Oh yeah baby, we’re number 1! I knew Cali didn’t have s**t on us. Nothing can compete with the number of scammers we have down here in the sunshine state! I’m filled with pride and joy today, FL has the much deserved title once again.
‘I’m filled with pride and joy today, FL has the much deserved title once again.’
Braggart!
Said so before!
Say it again, Cali has nothin on Fl.
We invented the Ponzi paradigm.
I ain’t a worried a bit that Cali’s all’ that big with so many peoples.
Fl will win out in all categories!
Oh, I’m sure New Jersey could give FLA a run for its money, at least percentage-wise, if only the corrupt and/or apathetic employees of the Department of Banking and Insurance actually would do what they are paid exceedingly well to do. I don’t want to write too much, but I personally know of two “real estate professionals” to whom New Jersey gave licenses notwithstanding the fact that each has a pedophile conviction. One is a mortgage solicitor; the other is a real estate sales person. I have been sqwaking about these two for roughly a year; the bureaucrats just chuckle and send out another patronizing form letter each time I do. I finally contacted a couple of legislators, and to their credit, they seemed as skeeved about these gentlemen as I am. After all, you supposedly need “good character” to secure a license in this state.
I don’t expect the bureaucrats really to do anything about these guys’ licenses in response to the legislators’ inquiries. That’s OK. My real purpose in contacting the politicians was just to get the word out on these predators. One politician is married to somebody I believe is up to the job. See ya!
“A national report released Tuesday said Florida leads the nation in mortgage fraud.”
Many years ago Florida was referred to as, “A sunny place for shady folks.”
Or as we used to call Florida, “the land of the scam.” Everyone’s on the take.
How about;
Land of warm weather, and cold people
The skin cancer state is also of #1 in lowered Honda’s with sonic boom exhausts and window-shaking bass speakers, politician’s and law enforcement people profiting off the narcotics trade, and headless chickens tossed about.
..still waiting for the monster Miami fete when Fidel is officially pronounced as a stiffy.
“Living as close as we do, it makes it really dificult to achieve closure…”
So……she files for divorce on him (and I’m betting filed a Restraining Order), then loses her job, and still lives with him?
Bitter, old, divorcee, that I am, I can only say that he must think that they might be able to “work things out”…..the even bigger cynic in me thinks that she will let him continue to think that, as long as he continues to foot the bills, and/or she gets a new job/boyfriend.
Just too much “letting the little head doing the thinking for the big head” going on out there.
“Where, oh where, are you tonight?
Why did you leave me here all alone?
I searched the world over, and thought I found True Love,
But you met another, and pfffft! You were gone……”
…more and more couples who have broken up are continuing to live under the same roof, according to judges and divorce lawyers. Some are waiting for housing prices to rebound; some are trying to get back on their feet financially.”
“I hate you.”
“I hate you too.”
“I want a divorce.”
“So do I.”
“I’m calling my lawyer right now.”
“So am I.”
“My lawyer’s not answering.”
“Neither is mine.”
“What do you want for dinner?”
“I’m not hungry.”
Neither am I. Lets just go to bed.”
“Ok.”
A Hee-Haw reference….sweet…….
Toxic wife …
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/recession/3527803/Recession-When-the-money-goes-so-does-the-toxic-wife.html
Brilliant article!
“She now has a waiting-list for her life-coaching sessions – a course costs between £10,000-£60,000 – on how to distinguish a gold-digger from a genuine woman.”
Hmmm… perhaps I should give up my house staging / feng shui consultancy and go into gold-digger avoidance coaching.
She now has a waiting-list for her life-coaching sessions – a course costs between £10,000-£60,000 – on how to distinguish a gold-digger from a genuine woman.
Lesson 1: Do not pay any woman thousands of pounds for any service. A cheaper one will come along.
If that’s the best these rich ba$tards can score then they deserve to lay in the bed they feather. At least the woman is consuming goods and services, which is what regular folks live from.
RE: Florida leads the nation in mortgage fraud.
LMAO…Like this some kind of revelation?
FL has always been home to the nastiest of the nasty, bucket shop, penny stock hucksters, who I’m sure regarded the mortgage loan environment for the last 5 years as pure manna from heaven.
RE: “Linda Melville filed for divorce from John, her husband of 13 years, in August. Four months later, the estranged couple are still living on the same property in St. Petersburg, Fla. Linda was laid off from her job in October and said she cannot afford to rent a place on her own. And so, while she looks for a job and tries to start the next chapter of her life, she remains in the home
Poor bastard…HELL ON EARTH!
More MEW-based relationships on the rocks. Not to assign ‘too’ much importance to it, but as I mentioned earlier ( w/ Mrs. Melville being unable to find work ) being white and female just ‘may’ not be enough to cut it in this employment environment?
When it was white MALES being thrown under the bus they didn’t mind so much? Once they’ve been out of work, their unemployment runs out and they have to take a job they consider beneath their dignity for a fraction of their former income, maybe they’ll come around?
From the article:
“Partridge is not getting a lot of support from her girlfriends. “Oh no, let it go to foreclosure. Walk away. Don’t do this” Partridge said. But “you have to take a breath and say they don’t understand the full picture”
The “full picture” being that her name is on the house paperwork, and if she walks away, the ex’s lawyer will be applying the Joshua Tree insertion.
ROTFLMAO……I guess your insistence that putting your name on the property “to make you feel secure” doesn’t look like such a hot idea now, does it?
And……she’s in the house. He’s in the mother-in-law shack out back. Stupid bast##d.
“doesn’t look like such a hot idea now, does it?”
It just strikes me that so many of these gals ( no offense to our ladies ‘here’ ) are being thrust into situations they seem totally unprepared for. Like uh… being out of a job when it’s *not of their ‘own’ choosing?
Yeah, kinda’ sucks don’t it? Don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to slam the gals on this point but now that their employment status actually forces them to make tough choices, I guess they’re finding out the “angry white male” wasn’t a ‘total’ fabrication.
Give this a few more months and I think it will be a lot more obvious.
Heh. As long as you are okay with pointing out the quibbles of men on occasion, I’m totally okay with this comment.
There are way too many women who blame their problems on men, use their house as security blanket, and/or think it’s a-okay to bash men for xx, but no joke or comment about a stupid woman is remotely acceptable.
Of course, these women are wrong, mostly because no joke about me being stupid is remotely acceptable. Everyone else on the planet, however, is fair game.
“Poor bastard…HELL ON EARTH!”
I got the house in my divorce. My ex wasn’t sure where she was going. In an attempt at being nice (or a fit of temporary insanity) I told her she could stay ’til she found a place. We were even still sleeping in the same bed (and only sleeping). Within a month, she drove me bonkers.
Hell on earth…no doubt.
One more piece of info about the Melvilles - they purchased their house in the summer of 2005 (height of the market). So there’s no way they’re selling that thing!
Just came back from the Keys and Miami, and other points, inspired by underemployment and cheap gas. (Had a dream last night that gas was 99 cents - judging from market action today, could be not that far away - and a new market for 99cent only stores.)
Hadn’t been to Key West in about 5 years, and it seemed less seedy than previous - almost more St. Augustine-like. If anything fewer bums than I remembered. Quite a few Japanese tourists - some could be America-based execs. Stopped at a couple places in the lower keys and had some nice chats - people still seem more laid back than stressed.
For most people in the Keys, If you have some kind of job and a place to sleep and a local hangout, life is pretty good. The longevity of people staying there once they get there is actually pretty high, from what I can tell. It’s a mellow place to live, and a little-known fact is that it is actually drier and cooler (during the middle of the day) than the rest of Florida in the summer. Guy I was talking to said it’s like the song, only the opposite: “If you can’t make it here, you can’t make it anywhere.”
One interesting consequence is that since the nursery and construction business has died everywhere, the whole area of East Homestead toward Biscayne Nat’l Park which was nothing but constant truck traffic is now very quiet and peaceful (this has always been a favored cycling area), and the nurseries are simply being transferred into thick, majestic stands of Royal Palms and other verdantia. Really nice!
Saw practically no construction anywhere - a skeleton crew on one high rise on S. Miami Ave. Traffic a little lighter than normal for December on Dixie Hwy, Brickell. Huge signs draped over most of the new, skinny, Latin-American style condo/skyscrapers in north downtown advertising prices and financing, but even that looked a bit perfunctory. Everybody seems to know it ain’t gonna happen.
Everything seems slow from Miami up through Palm Beach with the exception of Delray Beach, which doesn’t seem to have lost a beat. However, even there, you see brand new, beautifully-appointed commercial construction downtown that has never been moved into.
Maintaining law and order will be crucial in whether or not all these new residential and commercial properties ever get tenants. My guess is that as the economic situation deteriorates, it will become increasingly difficult to keep vandalism in check, thus destroying most remaining value. Most of this unsold late-stage, higher-end new construction throughout Florida will end up having near-zero residual value.
There are some bars in Key West with dozens of old license plates nailed up on the walls, the product of people driving until the road runs out and then selling their cars.
Zero hour here in Florida will be the first quarter of 2009, once post-holiday retail layoffs begin in earnest. I don’t know how people are going to eat, or, even more importantly for some, run the air conditioner.
The Keys are nice, but the big problem with them as I’ve always seen it is hurricanes.
Even when they’re barely on the outskirts of a mild hurricane, the Keys flood. Like major-league flooding. And there is ONE road out of the Keys, so traffic becomes immediately jammed when a storm is on its way.
To me, the Keys are a great place to “winter” (as long as you rent seasonally, rather than own the place!), but I wouldn’t want to live there from June 1 - November 30, and I would NEVER purchase property there.
When I first heard Florida’s old politico/wheeler-dealer (now Congresswoman) Ileana Ros-Lehtinen hung up on Barrack Obama twice, the first thing that came to my mind was she was just seeking some free publicity. Call me cynical, cause I am when it comes to people connected to the state that’s shaped like a big pen_s. Hey Ileana, Viva Cuba Libre, and pass the conch.
I’m all for a free Cuba. But it will suck a ginormous piece of the ag economy out of S Fla. From environmental view, that would be a good thing. But it would put local jobless rates into sky. I know a lot of growers who would flee to Cuba. Many already have well known relatioships in Mexico, Chile and Brazil.
Political reality is that there won’t be much ag free trade with Cuba, no matter how much kissy-kissy and open borders. Big stuff like sugar is easy to control and will probably continue to be embargoed to save the Lake Okeechobee-area economy, and meat, fruit and veg, and citrus will all likely face stiff tariffs and regulations, as well as opposition from traditional trade partners like Mexico. At best there will be a “go slow” policy with Cuba but it will be easy for vested interests in the U.S. to score anti-trade, pro-employment points, so that much of Cuba-U.S. commerce will probably stay underground. Cigars will probably be allowed in, but with such huge tariffs that reimportation/smuggling from other countries such as Canada and Mexico will become a good business.
I dunno, Paul. Didn’t Florida cut some sort of deal where US Sugar is going out of business in five years and Florida buys the land?
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1817390,00.html
Don’t think it’ll happen, palmy. $1.75 billion a year ago for what is essentially an environmental project looks a lot different than $1.75 billion today. Crist - autocrat that he is - was basically proposing digging in our pockets to buy out a private company, no doubt at a hefty premium with a few kickbacks.
How would buying U.S. Sugar stop sugar cane farming, unless you just mandated it? There’s plenty of land up and down Route 27 and east and west away from the lake that is perfectly suitable for growing cane, and there are thousands of knowledgeable workers, field hands, and truck drivers and millions of dollars of heavy equipment - what’s Crist going to do with the factories and equipment - burn it all down? You can’t just buy out a company and make an industry disasppear without some incredibly heavy-handed tactics. Also, I’m sure a lot of the land under cultivation in Western Palm Beach, Hendry, and Glades County must be privately owned, and simply grown under contract to USG.
I hate that pretty-boy sumbitch.
Paul….
Your perceived reality may differ greatly from what comes to pass.
– Many free-traders have new jobs under President-elect BO.
– Though BO captured much of the Hispanic vote, his appointments don’t look like he’s aligned in that direction.
– Cuba in NAFTA, don’t count it out too soon. Same disingenuous sales tools as before: improve other nation’s economy, improve exports to same from US, ad nauseum.
Your point about pro-employment arguments in favor of going slow is plausible, since joblessness is already rising. But a lot of car parts ops fled to Mexico under Nafta amid warnings about job displacement. The US jobs went bye-bye.
All I know for sure is that there are farmers that are itching to get out from under EPA, OSHA and other regs to lower production costs, as well as general overall labor costs.
Darn near all the grapefruit production could move to Cuba, might even make the product popular again cuz of better affordability. To think that tariffs would stop that relocation, and that of tomatoes for that matter, could be wishful thinking.
Besides, the Brazilians have already taken over the No. 1 slot in OJ production. Nobody would of thunk that a few years ago.
And as for Big Sugar, they will probably get around to restoring Lake O. the same time they “re-water” the San Joaquin River hereabouts. Sugar subsidies have survived Dem and Repub administrations. That is a wild card.
It was also good to see Alico Inc. announce its S Fla. strategy change recently in halting real estate aspirations and focusing on ag… for the time being. I used to know some of the players involved. But I’m sure they’ll cash in their cheap railroad land at some point.
I’m with you, Milkcrate. Free Cuba! When the growers leave, I’ll be sayin’ don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. Then we can get back to our small local farms instead of big agri-biz.
Cuba could easily become our 51st state. Or at least the same status as Puerto Rico.
The biggest loss: tasty food. They can ship those strawbs and maters around the world, but they taste like crap. Farmers will say as much. But they are pretty in display cases.
OT: I grew a few tomato bushes in my front yard of fussy HOA group, and they said yank those out plants because they didn’t go through architectural review cuz they represented a “material change” in landscaping.
They remained cuz me and my daughter planted them, and tasted wonderful. These were cherry tomatoes.
An old guy in my HOA stopped by a few months ago to tell me I had better move my kids basketball pole to a different location, against the rules and all.
I told him to shut the f__k up and if I ever here of it again from anybody, including the police, I was going to crawl into his f__king bedroom window and strangle his old f__king ass in his sleep.
Basketball pole remains and we all get along much better now.
“…Sang-Min Kim [or] Sonny Kim, as he’s known, has bought and sold about 90 homes in some of Tampa’s poorest neighborhoods.”
See dat house buh-hine big gate? I own dat house.
See dat uh-der house? I own dat one too.
I tell yoo how to buy house easy.
House get yoo girls like one you see here on dis boat.
Pretty girl, huh?
She ruv me aw night rong.
I own dis boat too.
You want boat, house, and girl who ruv you aw night rong?
You buy my system.
* * *
Luv,
Jen
Can we set her up with Tom Vu?
A Tom Vu reference….sweet……
Wow, that brings back a memory of unpleasant latenight television. What’s old Tommy doing these days ? Is he still in jail ? Did he move back to Nam to sell his system there ? Just wondering.
The above about divorces made me think of this, though a bit OT for Florida:
A little schadenfruede on a friend’s behalf, who divorced her cheatin’ lyin’ porn-addicted husband, he immediately married a trophy wife who demanded a new house, car, etc. yada yada. A very arrogant guy whose worth was based on what his money could buy, made good money selling high-end theater and sound systems in fancy houses.
He just lost his job (W. Colorado) and the new wife is leaving him, he can’t sell his overpriced POS house, and his car is getting repoed.
It’s finally hitting here, God be with us all (except him, just kidding nah I ain’t - did I mention he goes to a prosperity church - figures…). /snark
Ohh, a little feel good schadenfruede.
did I mention he goes to a prosperity church - figures…)
I guess he didn’t get to the part of the “Good Book” where the Lord taketh away, as well as giveth. (Maybe that’s not in the Bible, but hey, it sounds good with the “eths” on the ends.)
I hope your friend is having a fabulous life right now, for her own sake and to rub salt in the wounds.
Wow, I can really feel the love for Florida on the blog today. Ok, just between us Floridians, we’re kinda glad to see this whole bubble deflate, aren’t we? And if people don’t like us so much, that works fine for me. I’m going fishin’ and swimmin’. And squattin’ large soon’s I can find a place.
Dimedropped, yer the best, man.
I for one am happy to see it deflate, it’s been a constant thorn in my side since I moved here (4 years ago) and it’s nice to finally be on the right side of the housing market (ready to buy, money in the bank, waiting for the prices to fall further).
Frankly, the worst thing about the housing bubble was the people that I would meet (typically RE agents or MTG brokers) driving the SL65AMG with 4K in clothes on who (and I’m being totally literal) couldn’t explain the difference between a pay option ARM and a conforming loan. They knew what made them the most money, and that’s what they sold.
This country has misallocated SO heavily, rewarding unadulterated stupidity, and punishing those who smartly took the “right” path. It’s all an extension of the “get rich quick” “sports/gangbanger” culture; brains/intellect isn’t rewarded, it’s all about scamming/sales and dunking the rock.
My only hope is that, after this is all done the resources start to flow in the right directions again.
Michael Fink,
The correct quote is from “Seth Davis” ( in the movie “Boiler Room” )
“If you don’t have a jump shot, you sling rock ( and I didn’t have a jump shot )”
And it’s that very “misallocation” that we’re paying for! Look, had this been a case of rampant, out of control drug rehab center building or a senior assisted care facility boom ( I wouldn’t have minded so much ) But it was all about vanity, wasn’t it?
Great movie; and very relevant to my post!
I just wish that people would see it for what it is/has become; the banking/mtg/RE market was a total ponzi scheme; it attracted the dregs of society that didn’t have the brains/talent/drive to make it somewhere else. Come on, look at the work a RE agent does; who on EARTH would work a 25K job as a secretary when you could be a RE agent, working a few hours a day, dressing up in nice clothes; walking through houses, and then collecting huge commission checks.
If a job is very easy, and pays very well, something is wrong. In the case of RE, something was VERY wrong (as we see the global financial system crumble before this s*(tstorm of idiot brokers/agents/builders). The jobs that pay well are require years in college and/or rare skills, that makes sense. What RE agents do requires no education, no skills, little talent, and very little intellect. And many of these morons were making deep in the 6 figures (more then an average CEO pay) during the boom. How could we not have all thought that something was wrong there (and by all, I mean, everyone, not just us HBBers).
Nobody wants the jobs that pay 50K and have a solid retirement and good job security. They want Seth’s job.. Slinging the rock! And that’s a major problem in our society today; people see the path to riches as jobs that produce nothing, and provide little/no (or negative) value to society.
Mike, it’s going to be up to us as Floridians to ensure that the resources flow in the right direction. For starters, we can write and call our commissioners at least once in a while. We need to do what we can to elect strong, responsible people. And we need to talk amongst ourselves and to our neighbors about a better way of life.
The builders and developers are real rat bastards, IMHO. A lot of people, like Dime, who should have profited during the boom, didn’t. And that includes the more skilled and trained construction workers who were shut out by the hiring of illegal alien labor. I’ve been thinking of seeing if any of the Ron Paul folks are still around and meeting up. It’s time to start citizen assemblies in our communities.
Right and call and chat with your commissioners all you want. But it is the developers who pay for their election campaigns.
Excellent post. The amount of money devoted to unnecessary residential and commercial real estate, and speculating on securities connected to it, boggles the mind. And the unfortunate part is that most people still don’t realize bubble times are permanently over.
And the unfortunate part is that most people still don’t realize bubble times are permanently over.
It is a realization that will not happen nor discussed of in the Vermontergal household until the in-laws leave. Until then, it will all sparkly smiles with the hope that *this* will be the first bubble ever to actually reinflate.
(Don’t forget the happy nod when they mention we should buy soon to get in on the dip.)
Probably better to tell them what you really think. I just hate putting on an act for the inlaws, myself. Plus, it made for some interesting times at my first husband’s parent’s house on those long-ass visits to Tucson we had to take every year. I remember when I refused to go on the obligatory visit to his creepy grandma and the drunken son who lived together in an 8-ft wide trailer. Oh the consternation. Oh the family honor spit upon. I just said, “she’s not my grandma.” I had had enough of the old dame. The only thng she didn’t do was spit tobacco on the floor. She called me by our daughter’s name for some reason. The drunken uncle sleeping it off was a pretty sight too. I stayed back at the inlaws’ ranch-style home and read on the covered patio. It was great. No mother-in-law, peace and quiet. Pissed off husband, though. Oh well. Not the first time, not the last time. LOL. I had cooler grandmas.
Damn, I missed a Florida thread.
I’d take it up some more tomorrow AM, but I’ve gotta hit the estate sales.
I did see something sad today, though. I was down at an antique mall in Ellenton and a younger man and woman came in with some stuff they wanted to sell, Art Nouveau copper stuff, a little messed up but sort of nice. They were willing to let it go for $20.00 and there was a sort of desperation about it. She had gotten divorced and was out of work and it was some stuff that she had gotten in the divorce. The guy was her friend and they were living with some of her family nearby. My heart kind of went out to them, you could really feel the anxiety and the $20.00 really mattered.
You see things like this in the “stuff” business.
“Carusone said she would like to ‘call off the dogs’ when it comes to city liens. ‘It’s a losing proposition,’ she said. ‘You’re not going to get money out of these people.’”
This is nonsense. They owe it to the taxpayer to make every effort possible to collect the money. Perhaps if they started putting people in jail, and publicizing it, others will sell off everything they have and start paying back what they owe.
HBBers:
Does anyone have the digital equivalent of the Jaws of Life? Posts still getting crushed and trapped on the “server.”
Blecho.
Damn, I always miss the florida threads. I did some interesting scatter plots on my site. I would love to get some input from you guys. I think some of them really demonstrate the crash in a way that words cannot. I’m not just hawking my site. I really want input. Thanks!
It doesn’t surprise me that Florida leads the nation in mortgage fraud. It seems like they always have quite a few problems which is probably because of their size. It seems as if they’re doing a lot better now in 2010.