The Housing Bubble

Don’t know about the Bond Prince but the Cash King is doing fine.

Hey Alad, what is your plan if communities like Ithaca, NY don’t exchange the precious into their local currency?

Relationships and citizenship might be important in the coming years.

In Muggy’s post apocalyptic free-for-all normal, nice people won’t give a flyin’ toss about elves with lucky charms.

Muggy,

Maybe i’ve said once or twice, but all of my precious is overseas, safe from overseize.

And p.s. to all of you…

If you don’t have a passport, get one asap.

You may never need it, but what if you do?

You aren’t going anywhere without one~

Why would I buy an SUV from Honda at a time like this? That doesn’t seem like great advice. Shouldn’t I just buy gold?

“Maybe i’ve said once or twice, but all of my precious is overseas, safe from overseize.”

You keep avoiding this reality (I believe Muir has held you to the fire with this as well): there are no Jets to Brazil in the apocalypsinsane.

I enjoy your concept of free and unencumbered travel to places welcoming in apocalypsinsane. For such a smart guy, it’s a really stupid *belief*.

Unless you have a 50 thousand mile range personal jetpack and NBC force-field, I’m still waiting for a real answer…

i kinda doubt any of that gold is overseas… goldbugs share certain traits with junkies, and a junkie makes sure his stash is always very close at hand.
..which, btw, is why when the cops raid the house they inevitably find the dope within a few feet of the perp.. not buried in the yard.. not in a hidden safe.

joey,

When there’s several hundred million hand cannons in the grip of the unstable in our country, why would I keep my stash here?

‘By now I am used to dopey comments. Can’t escape that is a country where people are systematically bred to be dopes-for-life. HBB and the tech bubble had everything to do with the vast majority being brainwashed by propaganda (dopes).’

Well, I for one, am terribly glad you’re so patient with us, Jas, and evidently VERY willing to spend almost all your valuable waking time educatifying us iggerant folks here on the HBB, and all the iggerant folks on many, many other blogs.*
Speaking for me, I believe we all can only happily bask in the refulgence beaming from your high-quality brains.

* I haven’t seen you on any other blogs, Jas, because this is the only one I frequent. I’m not some fickle, easy gal. Also, I sometimes like to go talk to all those meat people running around in that ‘Real World’ thingie we got going on. So, I simply infer the many, many, many, many other blogs that joyously receive your drops of wisdom.

If you fear several hundred million hand cannons in the grip of the unstable where you are, why didn’t you take yourself to where you claim your gold is?

..unless you love gold more than your own life. Then it’d all make sense, albeit in a distressingly perverted sorta way.

joey,

I’m a patriot for now, but expect to be an expatriate soon…

“I’m a patriot for now, but expect to be an expatriate soon…”

Your comments make no sense. You spent thousands of dollars fireproofing your compound only to leave? You also say that living out of a suitcase sucks, but then always threaten departure at any moment. I don’t understand all of this. I get that you like gold, no problem, but seriously, what’s your deal?

Let me know so I can respond to you appropriately. I realize we can all change over time, but you contradict yourself a lot here.

We’re going on vacation, don’t have a cow…

“What happens next?”

NYCityBoy gets drunk, Alad pimps gold, Hoz speaks, we listen, I riff on some helpless old lady, Prof holds steady, some dick jokes fly, maybe some off-topic discussion about sweet foods led by OlyGal, DinOR drops more level-headedness, FPSS oscillates between prankster and universe master, Ben thanks everyone for a great week, Alad pimps gold some more, he and Combo have uncomfortable sexual tension, Utah and Florida are fairly mocked…

It’s what always happens next. And housing is still unaffordable.

“Alad pimps gold some more, he and Combo have uncomfortable sexual tension …”

It only becomes uncomfortable when I don’t get to be the guy.

If you have a golden rod, you will be always be the guy with the lad …

Dude needs to get or be laid…..

Do you really think a deflationist could get it up?

Deflationists do it more times for less.

‘Deflationists do it more times for less.’

HAHAHAHAHA! That’s extra good! That’s ‘embroider a sampler for the kitchen wall’ good.

Gracias, gracias, gracias, I’ll be here all weekend.

That was a good one FPSS. My problem is when I go to tell the joke I sometimes forget the punch line.

Maybe your pal should join the local KA chapter (Knifecatchers Anonymous).

Ok I don’t get that. Why would anyone “implore” someone to buy a house? Do people really do that? I say MYOB.

expectations, PB. notice the 4.5%.

Professor, my (professor) buddy actually bought his place in 1999 for 175 or so, and refuses to understand that his house will go down in price (King County recently appraised it at nearly a million — after significant renovation, mind you). Houses similar to the one he bought now are on the market for 350 - 450. I haven’t seen a sale in a while.

Do it anyway, Hoz, just this once…

“Gloating is not my style (except in bridge and snooker).”

You can’t call yourself “a Packer fan” and not be a gloating butthole. Can you? I didn’t think that was possible. You also have to be an expert at the art of excuses. Like that time the Packers lost because the groundskeeper hadn’t cut the grass properly at the 23 yard line in Lambeau Field. Man, Packer fans will never forget, or forgive, that one.

Frag you

I guess I do gloat over every Packers victory over the Bears - a lot of gloating over the last 16 years. (Unfortunately I still ‘member the ’50s)

I knew it. Hey, Hoz, drink some Leinie Red and Leinie Bock for me. Good luck against those Texans tomorrow.

I don’t have an opinion, either way, on the inflation vs. deflation argument. Both potentialities have their very frightening side effects. I am enthralled by the argument itself, and the cases argued by both sides. I do know that this unprecedented action on the part of the government makes me question how anybody can be 100% certain of either argument right now.

I do know that this unprecedented action on the part of the government makes me question how anybody can be 100% certain of either argument right now.

I’m not sure how anyone could feel certain in forecasting inflation or deflation, either. Too many variables, too much manipulation, too much secrecy, too many contradictory policy decisions.

for some of the Treasury buyers, just a good correction in the dollar would be enough to cause severe damage to their position; can’t be too long before that is starting to happen with all the money printing. If bondprices collapse at the same time, foreigners get a double whammy.

Often the market waits until it can fool the maximum number of players at the same time, and inflict maximum damage. We are getting there, slowly …

“…appears to be running the same type of fiscal policies that engendered hyperinflations in 20 countries over the past century.”

Don’t worry, it’s different here. This is the United States of America, for Chrissakes!

“I don’t have an opinion, either way,… Both potentialities have their very frightening side effects.”

Both potentialities are likely to occur, but by definition they cannot occur at the same time. Right now we are clearly in deflation mode, as the ’surprise’ worse-than-expected recession is having an analagous effect to that of a large meteorite landing in a deep part of the ocean and creating a depressed water level. What happens next after the ocean’s surface becomes severely depressed is anyone’s guess.

I agree we most likely will go through a defalationary period, related primarily through demand destruction and over production. We have far too much manufacturing capacity for normal times, we have too much commercial and retail space for normal times and have overbuilt housing by a mile. This in my opinion will lead to overall price decreases until demand and supply come into equilibrium.

Several years down the road, well, watch out. Once all of the governments’ programs finally start working, we will see the inflation factor finally kick in.

Sorry Prof, We have not been in deflation mode. We are currently in disinflation mode. What we were experiencing in the market is flight to safety.

Which for traders is great. Can anybody give a reasonable explanation on why the FDIC government guaranteed bonds yield 200BPS more than US Treasuries of the same duration, I would love to hear it? So I’ll just keep shorting treasuries (when I can) and smile happily to the bank.

“We are currently in disinflation mode.”

Perhaps my data sample is biased by San Diego reality, as I filled my gas tank for $50 in the middle of last summer and for $20 two nights ago, and I could have bought a median priced home here for $517K in 2005 or for $328K last month. That looks an awful lot like deflation to me, given that fuel costs plus housing costs represent 50 pct or so of the typical San Diego household consumption basket, but perhaps you are working off a different definition of deflation than I am?

P.S. My understanding of disinflation is that it is a decline in the (positive) rate of inflation, while deflation is an outright decline in the general price level. When some goods are going down in price while others are not, the discussion gets murky, but the CPI and the chain-weighted CPI, etc. are indexes which can be interpreted as proportional to a weighted average of prices with weights given by recent (and/or current) expenditure shares. I personally don’t know how one can have half the consumption basket’s price dropping like a rock and the other half’s staying roughly constant without having the average drop, but perhaps the BLS statisticians have figured out a way.

Link? I don’t see it.

Thx

Your own deflationary expectations are being met and exceeded. While my own personal inflationary expectations are not being met.

What would cause this expectation to change in the face of impending governemental spending on goods and services?

Actual reported data? perhaps.
or is Mr. Market begnning to price in this expectation of data?

You are wondering why the market is rising, and it has to do with expectations. The manifestation of the 4.5% expectation of mortage rates are coming in very short order, and many existing home-debtors are gonna get relief. Additionally, fence sitters will seriously consider taking the plunge based on what looks like a tsunami of inflationary monetary and fiscal policy velocity.

“Additionally, fence sitters will seriously consider taking the plunge based on what looks like a tsunami of inflationary monetary and fiscal policy velocity.”

The only problem with your thesis is that the top guns at the Fed and Treasury have been talking a mean bailout game for over a year with nothing to show for it. Failed bailouts and unrealized threats to inflate can sow the seeds of a deflationary spiral, IMHO.

I believe the 1973-1974 episode, when the U.S. headline indexes lost 50 pct or so of their value, is the best model for where we stand currently. Does anyone recall what happened with respect to inflation and gold prices over the 1975-1979 period?

(Hint: WIN buttons were invented while Gerald Ford was in the WH.)

over the 1975-1979 period ??

Prices rising fast…Demand for pretty much everything….Money was not cheap but easy to get…And then came Volker…

Eat a lot then get liposuction and bariatric surgery and get thin.

‘Eat a lot, you get fat.’

Nope. I’m on the ADD diet plan. I heartily recommend it. I say, “eat a lot, DON’T get fat”. Or waste valuable time doing that one activity, you know, where you lie down on your bed and close your eyes thingie…oh, yeah. ‘Sleeping’, they call it.
A big waste of time, I say.

Simply put, burn off more calories than you take in and you lose weight, no matter how much you eat.

Burn dollars (defaulting loans etc.) faster than your creation and distribution efforts put replacements into circulation (new bailout money sits in limbo) and you get monetary _________ along with it’s manifest symptom.. price _________.

The money supply is not limited.. someone types a number into a computer and bam.. there it is.. instantly…. Any amount you like.

The trick to adjusting the supply is to make that new money available. If it’s unavailable (as in locked away somewhere) it doesn’t participate in the economy and may as well not exist for the purposes of this discussion.

“The money supply is not limited.. someone types a number into a computer and bam.. there it is.. instantly…. Any amount you like.”

I’m thinking money creation has been moved even farther back the causality chain. Some politician or high-level bureaucrat starts talking about paying a few hundred $bn for this, that and the other bailout thing, then suddenly an amazing amount of money aperates out of thin air to pay for all of it.

Eat right, exercise daily, die anyway.

‘Eat right, exercise daily, die anyway.’

No!.. No!…and……..NO!
I refuse to do ANY of that nonsense. Especially the last one.

Well, I guess I exercise daily, by accident. I call it ‘having fun’. But if I had to do it, I wouldn’t.

“Especially the last one.”

My understanding is that Mormons don’t really die — they hie to Kolob instead.

‘My understanding is that Mormons don’t really die — they hie to Kolob instead.’

I. Am. Not. A. Mormon.
Just raised as one, in the lovely Zion of red rocks fundamentalist Utarr, land of the blessed, and the sunburned. There’s a difference, man.
Oh, and jeeze, to be translated to a place populated entirely by Mormons?! Jeeze! Shoot me now!
Oh, wait, no! Don’t!

Have you seen the new Mormon “beefcake” calendar yet?

Do you want it for Christmas?

‘Do you want it for Christmas?’

Nope. I done seen all the semi-and un-clothed Mormons I ever wanna. More, in fact.

But on the subject, I’ve only requested a ‘Ben Beefcake’ calendar like a hundred times. Jeeze! Why IS that man so modest? Ben! Ben JOnes! You! I want to order two dozen calendars, in advance!

Or maybe Ben thinks that would smack of unprofessionalism. Maybe we should go for a more generalized HBB Hottie calendar. You can be in it, Fasty, assuming you’re hot, which I assume you are, and in your month I want to see a paddle, a mushroom, and a pot of risotto. I’ll leave the details of the scene up to you.

WHERE is my post?

Post! Post! Heeeeeere, posteeeeee….

Ben is taking a well-deserved siesta after five years of hard work.

Slacker!

It has been extimated that the amount of “money” lost in the ether is in the range of $40Tr. That seems to dwarf the Fed actions so far. Bandaids on a hemorrhage.

Fortunes dissolving, retirement funds vanishing, house prices collapsing, bank failures, construction equipment piled up in pyramids, precious metals bust, unemployment accelerating, stock market swan dive greater than 1929, people skipping Christmas splurging, gasoline below $2! Where have all the dollars gone (long time passing)?

Rising prices is the neopolitical definition of inflation, not the economic definition.

Merriam-Webster’s dictionary offers several useful definitions of inflation:

- The italicized definition describes Fed policy.
- The bold definition aptly describes FPSS’ remark.
- Definition 2 is the commonly accepted definition of inflation in economics.

Main Entry: in·fla·tion
Pronunciation: \in-ˈflā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century

1: an act of inflating : a state of being inflated: as a: distension b: a hypothetical extremely brief period of very rapid expansion of the universe immediately following the big bang c: empty pretentiousness : pomposity

2: a continuing rise in the general price level usually attributed to an increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available goods and services

I’m thinking some posters here might be able to have fun with this definition of inflation:

Main Entry: dis·tend
Pronunciation: \di-ˈstend\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin distendere, from dis- + tendere to stretch — more at thin
Date: 15th century
transitive verb
1 : extend
2 : to enlarge from internal pressure : swell
intransitive verb
: to become expanded
synonyms see expand

we’ve got pomposity in spades!

The hyperinflation of my johnson was counteracted, in short course, by a highly deflationary period that lasted for a protracted period of time.

“The hyperinflation of my johnson was counteracted, in short course, by a highly deflationary period that lasted for a protracted period of time.”

I knew you would ‘come’ through for us

Also, by that definition of inflation, general decreases in price levels due to technological advancement woudl be considered deflation, which is kind of senseless as far as monetary theory is concerned.

To put it another way, the extent to which expansion of the monetary supply erases price decreases from technological innovation would be ignored.

Definition 2 is the commonly accepted definition of inflation in economics.

Commonly only in the neo-classical post-Samuelson age which is what you have been indoctrinated into.

Both Keynes and the Austrians would disagree with you, and it’s not often that those two agree on something.

“Commonly only in the neo-classical post-Samuelson age which is what you have been indoctrinated into.”

Samuelson’s disciples are like a cult which took over the economics profession. They are, in their own way, far more successful than the Mormons in converting new adherents to their doctrinal orthodoxy. BB is one of their high priests. I first became aware of this when I was in grad school, when a fellow student proudly expounded on his adherence to the neoclassical doctrine. I would sooner join a fundamentalist Christian church than pledge allegiance to doctrinal hegemony of the mainstream economics profession.

Averages don’t exist, either. They are just the fictitious creation of some very imaginative statistician.

“the amount of money, now that is something you can put a reasonable number on.”

How does one go about doing this?

amount of money: just use the statistics that are available, usually from the central bank (and if they are no longer available like with US M3, there are reliable alternative data sets). There remains room for discussion about which money supply figure to use e.g. M2, M3, MZM etc. but usually these all increase or decrease together (although at different rates).

A modern day version would be “credit expansion” beyond the expansion of goods and services.

Under this broad definition, housing would count as services.

An eminently judicious definition just not very measurable which is what got us into this mess in the first place.

That makes sense.

Rothbard’s definition was an attempt to recognize the need for some monetary expansion, which under a free-market/gold-based system would occur organically as miners responded to strengthening money compared to available goods/services.

I think his definition still applies to demonstrate the relationship between money, good/services and inflation. It is easier to understand than your modern day version, although your version is very appropriate to understand the nature of credit in this discussion.

So the question becomes, how do we let credit grow organically to emulate the expansion of the gold supply in a simpler gold-based monetary system?

The FPSS answer, I predict, is to not manipulate (i.e. stop pushing below free-market rates) interest rates and let them “float”.

My personal critique of that is the amount of total credit theoretically possible is a function of the money multiplier effect and dependent ultimately on injection of money by the Fed. So the focus of the problem of organic monetary growth can be pushed back to the Fed and the ability of those individuals to be “wise enough” to know when we need more money. They don’t have a natural signal they can follow (such as miners have in the case of the gold-based system).

Wow, I’m on a roll, two posts have gone through.

Here’s a third:

I have written a discussion of the 1983 issue. I posted a link to it on the HBB forum, in the finance section if you are interested.

Short version: About 1983 is when the Fed started focusing on manipulation of credit/interest rates in order to perform monetary policy.

Yep, let the short rate “float”.

You don’t need a gold standard. That would be a gold standard, and banks would actually have to work and compete for a living.

“That would be a gold standard, and banks would actually have to work and compete for a living.”

This is my sincere desire. I would like to see the banking sector become competitive and servile to the rest of the U.S. economy — get the dog wagging the tail once again. Hopefully OBwan will catch on to the possibility that he could be the one to set the U.S. back on course to future prosperity, and not get bogged down by big bribes from deep-pocketed banksters.

Good job, bluprint!

they could be deflationary if they were used as an income source by many people, but that is not the case. Pensioners (in EU) often get far more money from a fixed pension scheme than from stock dividends etc. As far as I know in my country the stock market only influences the high end of the housing market, and even there the influence is not too big. The influence on general consumer spending etc. is very little.

The 2000-2002 stockmarket crash had no negative effects on the Dutch economy, because home prices kept going up during those years, more than offsetting the stock losses. Most people have at least 10-20x more capital invested in their home than in stocks, taking leverage into account. And the number of people who own a home is far bigger than the number who own stocks (excluding pensions, investment mortgage etc.).

A crashing housing market could be very deflationary as many people have been using their home as an ATM (although in a bit different way here than in the US). But in most EU countries housing markets are not crashing (yet).

I need a few cosmetic crowns to finish my original dental planning, and I’m going to low-ball his asking price, which is hovering around $7k. He does very nice work, but I know things are going to be rough at his practice next year. They already cancelled all of their internal financing accounts due to increasing defaults.

and I read shortly ago that psychiatrists in London and NYC were very busy thanks to the credit crunch (fallen ego’s, trophy wive troubles etc.).

I’ve often thought that a great many psychological issues could be resolved if someone, say perhaps, me, were to walk up to the afflicted and slap them briskly across the face and then shout ‘Snap out of it, you dumba*ss!’

Well, what. It couldn’t hurt to try. At least, it wouldn’t hurt me, is my point here.

I say this from the point of view of my own immensely exciting psychological experiences during childhood. I’m an total expert in observing craziness.
I mean, how many of YOU were given a buzzcut Marine-style hairdo by your dad and then clothed in camouflage? Probably a fair number of you, given the average tin-foil hattiness around here. BUT! Was it a camouflage DRESS?? Because girls wear dresses, even after they receive a Marine boot-camp hairdo and an other impromptu lesson in game-dressing.
At least my dress had puffy sleeves and some eyelet on part of it. So it was a pretty camouflage dress…

oh, sweet Jeebus, I’m just gonna’ stop right now, and go drink more beer. Too many layers of crazy for a sober gal to deal with thinking about.

and I read shortly ago that psychiatrists in London and NYC were very busy thanks to the credit crunch (fallen ego’s, trophy wive troubles etc.).
——————–

I’ve heard that they are busier than ever, but their revenues are going down…because nobody is paying their bills on time, if at all.

These were long-standing clients who always paid on time, but recently seemed to run into hard times.

Just anecdotal…

As I have posted before ( but it didn’t go through ), if the new buyers and the crappers who got into the McMansions with nothing down and int. only loans, then why shouldn’t we have the same terms ? Why should we be paying 5.75% on a 30-year fixed rate, when we could be paying 4.5 % on something-or-other ? It’s not like we’re going to be staying in the house until we die. As I had also previously posted, it’s adequately maintained, but we’re not making any major “improvements”. Why put money into a lame racehorse ?

“The problem is the laws are being changed every 10 minutes.”

All of these rule changes are thwarting people’s expectations and behavior. As a result, just like during the peak of the bubble, people are not acting rationally, liquidating, and moving on to other endeavors. Instead, they are just milling around waiting for the next ba!lout to drop. Meanwhile, transactions have slowed and the economy has come to a grinding halt.

This is for on of the rentals. She paid 250K and wants Citi to adjust her payments including taxes and insurance down to rent. Rent is 1000 a month. Taxes are 400 a month. Insurance is 100 a month. At current interest rate of 5.6 %, she wants the principle dropped to 87,000!

“At current interest rate of 5.6 %, she wants the principle dropped to 87,000!”

So will the Fed create a special TARP-style program tailor made for real estate investments? I suggest they call it the TWERP (Troubled Waterlogged Equity Reflation Plan).

tell her to give it to the bank an maybe i’ll buy for 50k…they are not going to lower the principle to that level. why should they..most loans are in MBS, ABS or something sliced and diced so no one knows who owns it anyhow.

don’t forget

drunk / contractor
meth head* / contractor

*I don’t know what the proper term is here. “crack head” is for crack people but what do you call meth people? Meth freak maybe?

Tweakers.

IIRC it’s “speed freak”. When I was back in college they called methamphetamine “speed” IIRC.

“Tweaker” and “Meth Head” are both appropriate, though tweaker more accurately depicts the annoying physical characteristics of these subhumans.

“crankster” works well too…

“spun monkey”

True story:

I took a 2-week rafting trip on the Colorado last summer. Of course, the “tradition” is to do the Lava Falls rapids naked. Well, that’s tradition for a few people in our group.

So, here I am in the front of the lead guide’s raft with one of the guys going naked. Being in the lead guide’s raft, we went first, and were on “rescue” duty at the bottom of the rapids afterwards. We didn’t have a self-bailer, so we had to bail quickly to be ready to grab anyone floating down the river. So here I am bailing bucket after bucket, and each time I bend down to do so I’m right next to my raft-mate’s naked body. Not an ideal situation. One thing I *can* say is that water was *REALLY COLD* =)

‘Actually, anytime the train goes along the Colorado River in Colorado and Utah they get mooned by rafters. Seen it from both ends.’

Bet yer a septarian nodule I know who started THAT little cheery tradition.

No, but the guy taking their picture might be…..

Aw, I already lost that bet… ROTFLMAO

Hey, Oly, thanks for the prayers, leaving for round two, so keep prayin’ - LOL

“Does this mean all those rafting Girl Scouts that moon the train going through Glenwood Canyon in Colorado are sex offenders? ”

Never!! When girls or women engage in such behaviors it’s “cute and funny.” However, the males observing and/or engaging these behaviors are clearly being offensive and harassing and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Sarcasm off.

I receive “humorous” distributed emails from females at work with sexual content occasionally…just shake my head and delete em’. If these same emails were distributed/forwarded by male coworkers, the torches and pitchforks would start rattling immediately.

DOC

Reminds me of a story from college. A real nice guy from New Zealand was a student at the university, and he was tailgating at a football game one Saturday afternoon. He was a little stoned, and joked about streaking across the field at halftime. Nobody gave it much thought but, sure enough, after the conclusion of the second quarter he was seen shooting across the field, buck naked, with the police chasing him. They tackled him, and brought him back to his clothes. They searched him and found marijuana. He was arrested, charged with possession, and deported. It was quite upsetting for him, and all of his friends.

And were YOU that ‘friend’? Confess, my good sir.

I’ll say it yet again:

‘And were YOU that ‘friend’? Confess, my good sir’.

Isn’t it true that in the mass media “sex offenders” are always males unless they are females who have been caught having sex with underage persons, almost always male ones?

Dissenters, please provide the percentage balance between convicted male and female sex offenders and, of you who are true to your purpose, a sourced breakdown of the crimes for which convicted, by sex.

I would like to think that “sex offender” in the contemporary sense (as opposed to the old-time rapist or pervert) is not just a creation of N.O.W. To date, I’ve read nothing to make me think that is so.

Chip,

Ya gotta admit…one can force himself on a victim, while the other one can’t (assuming the “victim” is male).

Just a function of the plumbing, though I’m sure there are some female aggressors out there, it’s just not the same.

And have you checked out those teachers who get busted “victimizing” their male students?!?! Those “victims” are the envy of all their peers, and will be, forever.

None taken. It’s a long story with many players, but the short is this: my wife has family here.

She took off the blinders when we had our child, and realized this is no place for kids. We will be out of here in 2009.

We were @ the Ralph a few years ago, and I was surprised how many Canadians I ran into, partying in the parking lot-pre game.

I asked em’ why Torontonians would willingly go to Buffalo?, and the answer was somewhat unanimous…

“Canadian football sucks!”

If you live in Detroit, so does American football.

So many christians, so few lions…

Yes, it certainly does. Especially that palace they play in which was partially paid for by county bonds. Oh yeah. I mean, the long-suffering fans deserve to get the worth out of something they paid for, and it costs over $100 for two to go see those (real) losers play.

Yes, ahansen. I think she’s doing OK, she has a lot of courage and drive, she’ll be fine.

I know what you’re talking about, alad. Horrifying.
A couple years back some illegal alien went hiking, I think it was in Zion nat. park, and carefully carved his name in big letters over some exquisite petroglyphs. Sigh.

At least it made it easy to find him and charge him. ‘Hey, Mr. Migrant Apple-picker, replace or restore those priceless artefacts you destroyed.’
Yeah.

“It’d be like taking potshots @ the Mona Lisa in the Louvre.”

I’d actually enjoy such a thing, never having cared much for that painting.

Here’s the genuine article…

http://www.skymtn.com/Travels/Utah_Albuq_06/037PetroglyphCapReef.jpg

“…some illegal alien went hiking, I think it was in Zion nat. park, and carefully carved his name in big letters over some exquisite petroglyphs.”

Did he do that with a gun? If not, should the type of instrument he used be criminalized? No kidding - would like your view on that.

Our 2001 Prius has over 100,000 miles and just now needed a new battery. Toyota actually covers the replacement cost if the milleage doesn’t exceed 100,000 miles for models 2001-2003, and for car models to the present the warranty covers up to 150,000 miles. In our case, because we have an original model and we exceeded 100,000 miles, Toyota agreed to pay half of the battery cost, which was about $1,500. This has been the only repair expense we’ve had to incur to date. We’ve been very happy with our Prius, and the new models are even cooler.

That’s good news so far. What happens to the battery that is being replaced? Who recycles it, and into what, and for how much cost, and who pays that, and is there any unrecyclable hazardous waste, and who pays for burying that unrecyclable waste and where does it go?

Does anyone but me ask these questions?

From the Hybrid website:

Battery toxicity is a concern, although today’s hybrids use NiMH batteries, not the environmentally problematic rechargeable nickel cadmium. “Nickel metal hydride batteries are benign. They can be fully recycled,” says Ron Cogan, editor of the Green Car Journal. Toyota and Honda say that they will recycle dead batteries and that disposal will pose no toxic hazards. Toyota puts a phone number on each battery, and they pay a $200 “bounty” for each battery to help ensure that it will be properly recycled.

sure.. but not as in “pent-up demand” which translates to something approaching “desire”. Pent up demand exists only in the mind, and doesn’t affect the markets.

The “demand” in supply/demand refers to actual sales orders. Orders enable the markets to estimate current and future production and inventory needs.

I didn’t really think it through. Maybe BK is what makes sense, and I don’t mean a party at Burger King for the top brass.

Last weekend our friends’ son that normally drinks only Ketel One was drinking Budweiser.

The Horror…

“Last weekend our friends’ son that normally drinks only Ketel One was drinking Budweiser”.

You’ll know he’s hit rock bottom when you see him with a can of Schafer in his hand.

“My younger sister told my wife @ Thanksgiving, that her shopping philosophy was that she wanted only the ‘best’ things.”

Ah yes, another shopaholic of the fairer sex.

Makes me remember what someone wrote on an earlier stream…

“If you don’t need it, it’s not worth buying at any price.”

Sage advice…

DOC

I think most people would only like the “best things”. I mean, don’t we all strive to be rich and famous ? Or, at least, moderatly well off and not notorious ? LOL. That doesn’t mean we deserve them, indebt ourselves too far for them, or buy them until our closets overfloweth. I think a sane person can only wear one tiara at a time. The New Englanders have a hoary old saying which will come into fashion again soon:

Use it up, wear it out,

Make it do, or do without.

For dinner last night, ( and we really are being quite frugal ), we had a shepard’s pie made of leftover Thanksgiving turkey, 2 frozen polish dogs - small ones, left over sausage and hashbrowns from taking our daughter out to breakfast last weekend, 2 kinds of leftover gravy, peas, carrots, 2 fresh onions, chopped celery, crowned with leftover Thanksgiving mashed potatoes and baked. It was gooood and probably cost about $ 2.50 to make. Cleaned out the refrig., too. Also, we finished up the few gherkins left over from T.G., too. Meals like this will become the norm once again in many, many households across the country, as we seek to clean out our refrigerators of leftovers on Fridays like our moms did in the 60’s.

That’s covered somewhere in the Q’ran.

Also the Bible.

Nehemiah? “So God shake out every man from his house, and from his labor, that performeth not this promise; even thus be he shaken out, and emptied.”

Newman!

“If you control the mail, you control — information!”

“If you control the mall, you control — shopping.”

It’s mushroom season here in the forest, and quite a good season it is. I’ve been seeing all sorts of exciting things lately.

LOL !

OG - you’re a good sport.

Wrong. The cratering of of the Baltic Dry index is due to the diminished demand for the scrap metal and other shipped goods, not the other way around.

King,

If the only buyers are Asians and it only made sense to do it by sending scrap-metal in the holds of empty ships headed eastward, it’s a very sorry ship of state of affairs…

p.s.:

We supplied Japan with a veritable s-load of scarp metal in the 1930’s and 1940’s, up until around this day 67 years ago.

“We supplied Japan with a veritable s-load of scrap metal in the 1930’s and 1940’s, up until around this day 67 years ago.”

They built a lot of big floating and flying things with it. We then turned it back into scrap for them.

This might be a good present for NYCBoy:

http://www.campingsurvival.com/madinaminjap.html

I think that Baltic Dry will be part of the everyday lexicon of those of us who survive this depression. I would not be surprised to see it become a leading indicator of huge changes in the price of oil, though that is just an uneducated guess.

Merdeloan?

Sorry, that’s ‘way above my “pay grade.” The closest I can come to a response is to mention “New Age White” from Bodega Valentin Bianchi. $12 a bottle at a Brea, CA, wine shop. Nice!

“It was $2.40 a bottle, including tax”

Hope it doesn’t taste like it cost $2.40 a bottle…

Sometimes trader Joe’s “two buck chuck” tastes like “two buck upchuck.”

DOC

I have decanters of 87 Octane Arco ‘08 in my refrigerator for less than that!

Meet you for cocktails, Molotov?

Only if you’re buying, darling!

Sometimes trader Joe’s “two buck chuck” tastes like “two buck upchuck.”

Well, I like the cabernet sauvignon very much, although not the whites as much. It’s not ‘2 Buck Chuck’ here, or in OR, either. Alas. It’s 3 bucks.

Hmmm. I got 4 half-gallons of skim milk at Kroger that were going to expire in two days for .25 cents each. Yes, .25 each. I’m drinking one now and froze the other 3. That beats $ 2.40 a bottle wine, I think. I like skim milk, the wine not so much, so it worked out for everyone here.

Do they know their policies have fostered all these stupid side bets on their inane counterproductive gambling encouragement activities? At some point, everyone is trying to make a buck by guessing the Fed’s next move, rather than doing anything productive. And at a later point, the fallout from encouraging so much unproductive gambling activity will affect everyone (and I think we may be there already).

…………………./´¯/)
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…………./´¯/’…’/´¯¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./……./¨¯\
……..(’(…´…´…. ¯~/’…’)
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beautiful!

*caption

The benevolent fist of government.

lmao. boo hoo.

Meowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww?!?

Just guessing but it’s a good guess. Especially if the pumpkin pie was homemade.

‘And then I find myself wondering what Mrs. Clue would wood look like if she came home and all I had on was pumpkin pie spice and a Santa hat:9′

Curious. Because I have often wondered that very thing, myself.
* solemn Olyface, before busting up and falling off the chair*

Hey, you know what? YOU started it.

I forgot to mention that if you stick a “free” Euro-shopping coupon on to your hey-hey-hey-hey-hey, you’ll be getting the love of your life.

cba DOT fed AT gmail DOT com

I give up, I give up, I do.

I need a beer (or seven.)

The beer post went through!

WTF?!?

You can’t mention the f_lt_r because it knows that you are talking about it but you can talk about pr0n and beer.

Unbelievable!

‘I amost hit my head on a giant brass swan, that time.’

No, really…look, it’s a long story. It’s not a metaphor thingie, whossname, it really IS a giant brass swan, right here by my little wooden rickety desk with half of the drawers painted red, and I didn’t even ask for it, is the thing. Normally it turns out that I once asked for what ends up blighting my life–just as Freudian as you’d please–but in this case, I didn’t. I did not request this swan, it just sort of barged in.
Oh, look, whatEVER. I’m starving and must go eat noodles. We can argue about who causes what, later.

‘You can’t mention the f_lt_r because it knows that you are talking about it but you can talk about pr0n and beer.

Unbelievable!’

Appalling, is what I call it! (hiccupr)
Hey, where’s my brass swan post? I fancy that it was Fre*udian.

Did you read my post about Mrs. Clue Euro-shopping-coupon?

Pass the beer, comrade! Don’t bogart it.

I wonder if Benjamin Jones XXVII is on the sauce.

Where are the freakin’ posts, I ask, where are the freakin’ posts?

its official, Im insane. Wearing only pumpkin pie spice, a tiny Santa hat, and looking forward to trying the Brass Swan later.

W00t!!!!!!!!!!

Go, clue, go!!! We’re all rootin’ for you.

‘Did you read my post about Mrs. Clue Euro-shopping-coupon?’

Ergh, wha..? Oh, my goodness! I missed it *hirrcupy sort of thing* I must go check. Can’t miss THAT…

I just mooned you. look up.

Look again at the reply, buddy boy.

‘its official, Im insane. Wearing only pumpkin pie spice, a tiny Santa hat, and looking forward to trying the Brass Swan later.’

Look. Quit being so coy and myste*rious. YOU know you want to show us. IIIIII know I want to see, because I happen to love and approve of all things San*ta-Clau*sy.

So let’s go, clu*ey! W00t! Get out the cam*era-phone and lessee the pun*kin!

Sounds like Mrs. Clue is getting an early Christmas present.

ok I just got filtered. and its a lot harder to read than your post.

Sounds like Mr & Mrs. Clue are BOTH getting an early Christmas present.

I love “happy endings”. I do. *wipes away tear*

FPSS,

I do also. Love those happy endings. Mr. and Mrs. Clue are very lucky to have each other.

Not happy endings, daaahlink, “happy endings”.

But those tend to go together so I forgive you for the misunderstanding.

‘I love “happy endings”. I do. *wipes away tear*’

What I love about you is your tender heart and generous spirit.*
And so, for you, here’s a hanky, available from my left-hand shirt-sleeve. *Blows nose loudly upon said hanky *

* No, really.

FPSS,

My mind is fuzzy right now.

What do you mean by Not happy endings, daaahlink, “happy endings”.

I can’t believe you live in SF!!! You’re a disgrace to that city. Ask your gay friends to translate.

Hangs head. I read the whole post between you and clue and now I get it. Dang, just too much fresh air today and not enough coffee.

LOL

All my “serious” posts have been wiped out in this absurdly delightful exchange but that’s the way the cookie crumbles sometimes. One must go with the flow.

‘Ask your gay friends to translate.’

Let’s all forgive each other our gaucheries, and then go seek out gay friends to translate. They know everything, and are willing to explain. Where would we all be, without gay friends? prolly still hanging out in the jungle, with ugly shoes. *

* That was rhetorical.
Actually, you know what, I don’t KNOW where we’d be. I’m just makin’ stuff up, here.

We’d be without killer martinis, that’s where we’d be!

I thought you and I already had this discussion but maybe you OD’d on mushrooms and/or beer, and forgot everything.

well, it wasnt as happy as I would have liked.

after she came home, I was told “I am not going to eat your pumpkin pie post because there is no whipped topping or brass swans on the side.”

If only you had stuck the free Euro-shopping coupon where I told you to ……

ok seriously….you two can talk about your mushroom and I wont get in the middle of it.

Ohhhhhhhh clue.

At least you tried.

Hmmmm. *effortfully applies a studious and wise face *
You betcher! Lessee, is ummmm….
New Savory Mushroom Thingies?
That was one?
The other one is in my car. I leave that one there for if I spot a mushroom and have to screech my car to a stop, but I don’t carry it about in my briefcase or in my purse because it’s too heavy. Now, don’t ask me to walk out the door and into my garage. It’s dark. We have a forest thingie out here. Not one street-light anywhere.
How about I tell you tomorrow?

LOL

But seriously, I love clue (= vozzie). He’s made me a lot of money and/or saved me money (which is the same thing.)

There’s a saying about only teasing the people you love or some such …

‘…after she came home, I was told “I am not going to eat your pumpkin pie post because there is no whipped topping or brass swans on the side.”

Well! I ask you! That’s just cruel, is what I think. Allowances should definitely be made, here during the Holiday Season, is what I think.
On the other hand, you really should have had some whipped topping handy. I mean, doesn’t every prepared person always, always have some whipped topping ready?
I mean, there’s like a freakin’ badge for ‘Whipped Cream Preparedness’; everybody knows THAT.
Right?

Naah, we’ll just teach him to get some unhomogenized milk (they sell that these days) and he can make up some fancy whipped cream for Mrs. Clue.

you two can talk about your mushroom

We’d rather talk about what Mrs. Clue did with your mushroom, wouldn’t we, Oly?

‘We’d rather talk about what Mrs. Clue did with your mushroom, wouldn’t we, Oly? ‘

What?! No! ‘We’ want to talk about whipped cream and mushrooms and arcane practices! Jeeze, man! I want a BADGE, here! *grumbles, rolls eyes at mysterious brass swan*

I sincerely thank you all for that entertaining thread.

I seldom read the blog in the evening on weekends. I guess now I know where the party is!

‘There’s a saying about only teasing the people you love or some such …’

That part’s true.

in stitches.
in tears of laughter…

thanks.

f ck
d mn
sh t
h ll
c nt
d ck
c ck
s ck

Testing, one, two, three…

LOL!

You and FPSS are sweeties. A big hug and kiss to the both of you.

Oh, if only. ‘Cept he’s fifty-eleven states away. I counted on my digits.
Still, I thank you for the good thoughts, and I also wish you lots of rain. Lots and lots and lots of rain…

“Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow”

“Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow”

So, are you wearing a Santa hat, or are you NOT?! *violent gesture! *

I’m wearing a Santa hat in all the right places.

Hahahahah! What a thought. Do they make them that size?

I mean that in a good way. :0

Do they make them that size?

Sure. You just take a regular hat and … alley-oop! It works.

I…uh….I have no response to that. I think I might even be blushing. Where’s my camera? My mom will want to see this.

I believe it was pumpkin spice not Pumpkin

PUMPKIN SPICE not pumpkin and a SANTA HAT.

This is going to be good.

It’s too late.

The hazelnut beast has been released.

It’s funny because I don’t actually have a sweet tooth. Rare but true.