December 8, 2008

Some Little Real Estate Empires Are Crumbling

A report from the Oregonian. “Southeast Francesca Lane cuts up and around a hillside to reveal the boom-time promise of Happy Valley circa 2006. Young families rolled in to snap up $600,000, stone-fronted homes with Mount Hood views. Francesca Lane circa 2008 isn’t dreamy any longer. One of every five homes or lots on the street has fallen into foreclosure since the neighborhood sprang up three years ago. The king of Happy Valley homebuilders, Roger Pollock and his Buena Vista Custom Homes, faces a foreclosure lawsuit on two Francesca Lane lots. Dick and Aloma Anderson, a retired couple from Clark County, gambled that they could flip a Francesca Lane home for a quick profit. Now, their retirement won’t be quite as golden.”

“The couple had never bought an investment property. But by 2006, flipping houses had become so common nationwide that TV networks celebrated it with reality shows. Aloma was certain they could buy a home, resell it for a hefty profit and pad their retirement. Aloma says the salesman told them the home would be worth as much as $1 million by the time it was finished in the summer. They closed the deal in August 2006 on the four-bedroom, 5,000-square-foot home for $633,865. It was a steal, they figured, at $125 a square foot.”

“Within weeks, Aloma put the house on Craigslist for $799,000. She planned to sell it herself and made the 35-minute drive most Saturdays to host open houses. She’d stay for seven hours and usually saw no one. She lowered the price to $749,000. Even after a year, she still had no offer. The Andersons refinanced their Hazel Dell home twice to raise cash for the Happy Valley mortgage. In late 2007, they raided their IRA.”

“Pollock expected things would get much worse, and he cut his losses. He announced an auction in December 2007 to sell 230 homes, including some on Francesca Lane, at bargain prices. ‘When he did that to us, it killed us,’ Aloma says.”

“She mailed her last payment in January, and the lender declared the mortgage in default three months later. Staring at a loan far higher than the home’s value, the Andersons faced losing the home to the bank. A real estate broker found the Andersons a bargain hunter. The lender approved the sale for $515,000. That’s $123,000 less than it had loaned the Andersons 20 months earlier. ”

“The Andersons never spent a night in the Happy Valley money pit. But the mortgage, fees and taxes cost them close to $100,000. ”I saw dollar signs,’ she says.”

“The couple would like to sell their Hazel Dell home to move closer to family in the Midwest. But the Clark County market is about as bad as Happy Valley’s. Their builder, Pacific Lifestyle Homes, is now bankrupt. The home was appraised for $465,000 last year. Now, she’d take $379,000. After all this mess, the Andersons had to tell their children they can’t help out with money any longer. ‘That’s a hard thing to tell them,’ Aloma says. ‘We don’t have it anymore.’”

From KTVZ in Oregon. “A national study claims the Bend area still has the most ‘extremely overvalued’ housing market in the country - 43 percent overvalued, as a matter of fact. ‘I guess I have a little problem with this whole overvalued interpretation,’ said Cal Gabert, residential manager for Bratton Appraisal Services in Bend. ‘I’ve heard we’re overvalued before, but we’re still somewhat of a resort community. We have a lot to offer that isn’t available in other places.’”

“‘Bend still is right now a good value,’ Gabert said Friday. Still, Gabert said, ‘If you move to Bend, you’d better have employment figured out. A lot of retired people move here,’ and to Gabert’s way of thinking, Bend homes are becoming more of a value all the time.”

The Bend Bulletin from Oregon. “Central Oregon’s building permits, seasonally adjusted, reached at least a 10-year low in the second quarter with 27 building permits filed each month from April through June. At the peak of the housing boom in the third quarter of 2005, an average of more than 400 permits were issued each month, according to the Central Oregon Business Index.”

“Smaller contractors that operate on word of mouth for new business are getting hit harder when it’s time to bid against larger construction firms, sometimes from outside the region, said Dave Jasper, a project manager for Havniear Construction, which has operated in Central Oregon since 1978.”

“‘Everything that becomes available goes out in the open market for bidding,’ Jasper said. ‘A lot of guys are frothing at the mouth looking for stuff to do.’”

The Seattle PI from Washington. “Seattle’s economy is basically healthy, but its real estate market is in decline, with no prospects for a quick recovery, said a panel of experts at a breakfast meeting Friday. ‘When we look at Seattle’s commercial real estate outlook — duh, it’s deteriorating,’ leadoff speaker David Legeay, a KeyBank senior vice president, told 500 real estate professionals and investors.”

“‘I think you can expect to see a continuing, steepening decline in opportunities here in Seattle over the coming months. You’re going to take your lumps just like everyone else has,’ the Cleveland resident said.”

“Matthew Gardner, a principal with Gardner/Johnson LLC, predicted ‘a tsunami of new apartments coming online in 2009 in Seattle’ — about 6,600 units, with 8,000 more in 2010. ‘Do we need it all? Ultimately, yes. Do we need it all in 2009? Oh, no, definitely not,’ Gardner said. ‘It’s going to be rough here next year’ for apartment owners, though tenants will have a wide choice.”

“As for condominiums, would-be buyers are holding off because they think the units are too expensive or they can’t get financing, he said. ‘Housing affordability is still a big, big issue,’ he said.”

The Olympian from Washington. “The Thurston County housing market returned to a familiar pattern last month as home sales, median prices and inventory levels all fell from November 2007 to November 2008, according to Northwest Multiple Listing Service data. Home sales fell again in November because prospective buyers got scared off by another wave of poor national economic news, said Bill Hutchinson, president of the Thurston County Realtors Association.”

“‘It has really caused people to think again,’ he said.”

“Broker Jeff Crandell said he thinks many buyers are watching for when the market hits bottom before making a purchase, a practice he likened to ‘trying to walk in the fog.’”

“The typical buyer today is someone who doesn’t first have to sell a house in order to buy one, such as a first-time buyer, a repeat buyer returning to the housing market or an investor, Hutchinson said. Right now the market is strongest for homes selling under $250,000 and weaker between $300,000 and $500,000, Hutchinson said.”

“But Crandell added, ‘If you’re in the market for a luxury home, they are really dealing on those homes.’”

The Canada Newswire. “According to the latest housing report released today by RBC Economics, British Columbia’s housing affordability conditions have started to improve in that last two quarters but home ownership costs are still the most inflated of all provinces.”

“‘The situation is unraveling fast in British Columbia,’ said Robert Hogue, senior economist, RBC. ‘After extremely tight conditions built up during the boom and drove home prices sky high, the province’s housing markets are now entering a correction phase that will see prices reverse recent gains, with greater affordability being restored.’”

“In Vancouver, homeownership costs remain the highest in the country. Despite price declines since the first quarter of 2008, home prices are roughly double the national average for most housing types, with standard condos the lone exception at only 70 per cent above average. With the median family income estimated to exceed the Canadian norm by only eight per cent, and qualifying incomes roughly at more than $150,000 for a standard two-storey and $135,000 for a detached bungalow, the vast majority of Vancouver families are effectively shut out of those market segments.”

“The condo segment remains the only option for many, as homeownership costs are not as steep, the RBC report said.”

BC Local News in Canada. “Home prices in Metro Vancouver headed in the same direction as the stock markets in November: down. Real estate prices lurched down another four to five per cent last month, according to the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver.”

“The benchmark prices of a single detached house is now down 13.6 per cent since May to $666,500. In the Fraser Valley, real estate is off six to seven per cent since May. ‘The local real estate market is not immune to the current economic challenges globally,’ said Dave Watt, president of the Greater Vancouver board.”

“The more expensive suburbs in the region is where prices have plunged most. Condos in West Vancouver and White Rock are now both down 20 per cent from a year ago, while the median house in White Rock is off 25 per cent. Detached houses and attached duplexes or townhouses on Vancouver’s west side are down about 19 per cent from the same time in 2007. Condos and houses in North Vancouver are also down 12 to 14 per cent.”

“People willing to buy are scarce. Sales were down 70 per cent in Metro Vancouver from a year earlier and Fraser Valley Real Estate Board sales were down 62 per cent.”

“Watt said more disciplined mortgage lending here has kept Canadian housing prices much more stable than in the U.S. ‘Times of turmoil, from which we always emerge, offer excellent opportunities to buy quality real estate,’ he said.”

From Canwest News. “RBC’s third-quarter housing report was issued amid news from Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. that housing construction starts took a larger-than-expected dive in November to seven-year low of 172,000 units, and a warning of continued weakness through the next year.”

“Regionally, the cost of carrying a detached bungalow ranged from a high of 69.7 per cent of income in British Columbia to a low of 35.4 per cent in Atlantic Canada. Among a selection of major cities, the range was from a high of 74.8 per cent in Vancouver to a low of 40.4 per cent in Montreal with Toronto at 53.3 per cent, Calgary 47.3 per cent, and Ottawa 43.3 per cent.”

“While the economic downturn has lowered prices it also threatens to undercut incomes, the report notes.”

“‘At the end of 2007 the red-hot Alberta housing market began to slide, followed by British Columbia in early 2008, and now Saskatchewan and Ontario have joined the weakening trend,’ it said, adding that most of the market corrections taking place in British Columbia, Alberta and Saskatchewan can be traced to very poor affordability conditions.”

The Canadian Press. “The falling loonie hasn’t stopped Canadians from shopping for bargain real estate in the United States as housing prices continue to drop, particularly in sun destinations such as Florida and Arizona. Recent statistics show nearly one-quarter of all international home buyers in the U.S. are Canadians, which is more than double a year ago, and twice as much as the next-largest foreign owner, the United Kingdom.”

“While the price is right, experts warn potential buyers to consider the extra costs associated with such an investment, from taxes to travel. Meantime, U.S. housing prices keep falling to levels not seen since early 2004.”

“Analysts say the market has yet to hit bottom as foreclosures and unemployment in the U.S. grows, causing demand and prices to keep dropping. ‘There is still massive amounts of inventory,’ says Scotiabank economist Adrienne Warren.”

“Brian Ellis, president of Florida Home Finders of Canada, says the investment interest hasn’t wavered too much recently, despite the dollar’s drop from parity to about 80 cents US in recent months. That’s because of the bargains, Ellis says. ‘Homes that were years ago selling for $600,000 or $700,000 are now selling for $200,000 or $250,000,’ says Ellis.”

The Daily News Miner from Alaska. “Emily Sousa said the landscape for renters seems to have changed in Fairbanks. When she and a roommate looked for a two-bedroom apartment in 2006, there was nothing there. ‘We ended up 20 miles out of town in a place with little insulation’ for two months during the search, said Sousa, then an undergraduate at the University of Alaska Fairbanks.”

“Sousa is about to start work on a master’s degree. Once again, she and a friend are looking for a two-bedroom place and have found themselves in a seemingly completely different rental market. ‘There’s a lot of two-bedroom places out there,’ she said Thursday. ‘They’re not necessarily a lot of what I’m looking for, but they’re there.’”

“The figures back up Sousa’s impression: The number of vacant apartments in the Fairbanks area is more than 30 percent greater last fall’s figures, according to reports from property management firms. Twelve percent of the units at Midtown Apartments are vacant, according to Stephen Enochs of Senek Property Management. The company also has more than a dozen cabins unfilled, an ‘unusually high’ number for this time of year.”

“‘I am not sure what is going on, but there are definitely a number of properties on the market and they are not moving,’ he wrote Thursday in an e-mail to the Daily News-Miner.”

“Phyllis Enoch, a manager for Northern Homes, said a few of the vacancies she’s seen were due to prospective home-sellers who got tired of watching housing prices fall and decided to enter the landlord business instead. ‘It opens up the single-family home market, as far as (rentals) available out there,’ Enoch said.”

The Anchorage Daily News from Alaska. “We’re beginning to see some worrying signs that the recession gripping the rest of the country eventually could bite us here. Among the indicators: rising unemployment, mounting home foreclosures and high credit-card debt.”

“Beyond this, brows are beginning to furrow over the precipitous decline in oil prices. Oil revenue pays for most of the cost of state government and is a vital fuel for the entire Alaska economy. On Friday, Alaska crude oil closed at $35.61, a far cry from the peak of $144 in early July.”

“And here’s something else: Investment troubles on faraway Wall Street have done a number on the state’s main savings account, the Alaska Permanent Fund, which now has a market value of less than $28 billion, having lost about $9 billion over the past four months.”

“Unemployment in Alaska took a startling jump in October, up to 7.4 percent from 6.7 percent the prior month. The jump is the largest Dan Robinson, an economist with the Alaska Department of Labor, can ever remember seeing, and it’s the first time since February 2005 that the state’s unemployment rate has cracked 7 percent.”

“After the exhilarating surge through most of this decade, the average sales value of single-family houses in Anchorage has hit a plateau at about $328,000. Richard Ullstrom, an Anchorage foreclosure attorney, said his law firm handles many of the state’s foreclosures, with the typical client being a financial institution such as a bank or mortgage lender looking to recoup its money.”

“Ullstrom said his firm is handling more foreclosures, but still not even half the number seen in Alaska’s late-1980s real estate crash. Why are foreclosures on the rise? Ullstrom attributes much of it not to a recession but to overexuberant real estate investors bailing on bad bets.”

“‘Some people got sold on the idea of investing in real estate back when things were going well,’ he said. ‘What we’re seeing now is, some little real estate empires are crumbling.’”




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88 Comments »

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-08 13:56:50

“Broker Jeff Crandell said he thinks many buyers are watching for when the market hits bottom before making a purchase, a practice he likened to ‘trying to walk in the fog.’”

‘Tis far better to try to walk in the fog than to try to catch a falling knife in the fog with no idea of how far down below you the hard ground lies.

Comment by milkcrate
2008-12-08 14:38:27

Tule fog hereabouts kills lots of people in the winter.

Comment by milkcrate
2008-12-08 14:39:43

Or, people navigating blindly in it, I should add.

 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-08 16:47:18

Foggy Mountain Breakdown!!!

Comment by Milkcrate
2008-12-08 17:09:48

I can hear that fiddle now.
;)

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-08 17:17:33

That’s because all RE is a bit of a fiddle.

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Comment by cereal
2008-12-08 21:51:46

they gotta be fogging kidding us.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-12-08 13:56:52

“Central Oregon’s building permits, seasonally adjusted, reached at least a 10-year low in the second quarter with 27 building permits filed each month from April through June.”

One county in NNV has got that beat. Douglas County hit a record low for permits pulled last month that I’m pretty sure won’t be beaten, only tied in the months ahead. The number? 0! That’s right kids, NADA!

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-12-08 14:46:07

Nice work, ex. Congrats!

 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2008-12-08 14:58:39

Just in case you were wondering, Douglas was one of the boom counties up here in NNV. It includes a large chunk of the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe, as well as most of Carson Valley. I know some might be thinking it would be easy to go 0 permits out in BFE Nevada, but it’s not the case.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2008-12-08 13:59:09

Within weeks, Aloma put the house on Craigslist for $799,000. She planned to sell it herself and made the 35-minute drive most Saturdays to host open houses. She’d stay for seven hours and usually saw no one. She lowered the price to $749,000. Even after a year, she still had no offer. The Andersons refinanced their Hazel Dell home twice to raise cash for the Happy Valley mortgage. In late 2007, they raided their IRA.”

Wiped out completely. One lesson learned for all flippers is NEVER raid your primary residence or IRA to save a flip house. It is going to get foreclosed anyways - might as well save SOMETHING…

Comment by In Montana
2008-12-08 14:15:07

”I saw dollar signs,’ she says.”

Ever wonder which one of the couple was driving the deal?

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-12-08 15:36:10

Does/did it matter?
What we got here is some premium, high-water, grade AAA+ idjits. What, like a moderate gradation in moronicity would have made much of a difference? Iff’n it wasn’t REtard stuff, it would have been them doing something else astoundingly stoopid. They could have taken turns blaming each other along the way, and I’m sure they will, too.

Seriously, how DID these people stay alive without a little placard glued to their hands, reading ‘Breathe in….okay, now breathe out….and once again, breathe in….’

Like that. Jeebus! I feel PI*SSY!

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-12-08 16:22:55

‘“The Thurston County housing market returned to a familiar pattern last month as home sales, median prices and inventory levels all fell from November 2007 to November 2008, according to Northwest Multiple Listing Service data.’

Okay, now my good humor is entirely and completely restored! Hahahaha! Wheeeee! I guess it’s NOT ‘different here’!

Oh, and thanks for the PNW thread, Ben. Merry Christmas to you!
Say, do you have a Santa hat, Ben Jones? Are you wearing it right now?
Well, why in tarnation not?! Are you like some sort of athiest or something?

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-12-08 17:23:32

You didn’t happen to torment any protesters at the capitol building this weekend, did you?

I will be heading past you this week, so my curiosity may just get the best of me to take a detour at exit 104 (or is it 105? 109??) and go torment all of ‘em.

 
 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-08 17:19:52

Here, have a potato.

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Comment by DennisN
2008-12-08 14:24:03

“They closed the deal in August 2006 on the four-bedroom, 5,000-square-foot home for $633,865. It was a steal, they figured, at $125 a square foot.”

“Within weeks, Aloma put the house on Craigslist for $799,000. ”

Where in the heck did they get the idea that houses went up $160+K within a few weeks? Didn’t flippers understand that they would have to add some value, or wait a few months, to see any appreciation? Something doesn’t add up in this situation.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-12-08 14:33:00

That was the thinking of the time, especially in the Southwest where they thought they would be immune from this disaster.

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-12-08 14:34:05

I meant Northwest!

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Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-12-08 14:50:52

And they’d heard it was done in FL….AZ….NV….CA. And afterall, everyone’s abandoning the rest of the places that are different and coming here in droves because this place is different than different.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-12-08 15:10:46

Slim here. Bad Andy’s correct. It was indeed the Southwestern mindset. And, alas, it’s still hangin’ on.

 
 
 
Comment by milkcrate
2008-12-08 17:34:15

DennisN
Agreed that waiting wasn’t in the equation.
Besides, all those people that rushed out to California to find gold more than 150 years ago by and large did not, blinded by their love of riches. Many were lucky to leave the hills with a pair of jeans on their back sides. Bailout? What bailout?
I swear I am going to order some of those hats. ;)

Comment by DennisN
2008-12-08 20:22:44

My great-great-grandmother Anna Cooke came out on the Oregon/Ca trail back in 1862. She didn’t become wealthy but she did found a family and the town of Live Oak. I still have her Colt model 1851 Navy in my collection.

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Comment by milkcrate
2008-12-08 22:41:42

A woman ahead of her time. Good for her. ;)

 
 
 
 
Comment by snake charmer
2008-12-08 14:46:35

Some of these financial life lessons are so simple and timeless that they could go into a modern-day version of Aesop’s Fables. And the Andersons have to help out their children with money too, which suggests to me that the children may have made similar greed-driven misjudgments.

Is it just me, or are those houses oversized and supremely unattractive? The article has some tidbits from an interview with the douchebag developer who despoiled the land with this junk. He claims that the area “is not unlike Beverly Hills.”

Comment by DinOR
2008-12-08 16:31:22

snake charmer,

I didn’t catch that in the original read. Yes, I’ll bet you’re right. Chances are their kids ( who’d be in the 40’s by now ) were hip deep in flipper-mania their damn selves!

Now they’re all going down the tube together. Beverly Hills my @$$ btw. I just drove past it on the way to the airport and I just didn’t cop that… “vibe”?

 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-12-08 16:59:57

We owned a two-story 4,000 sq ft McMansion (Garage Mahal)and you’re right, they are fugly on the outside. Our interior was beautiful, but that’s not enough. I want an older charming one-story on a nice property, w/privacy in the yard. We’re buying in 2009.

Comment by DinOR
2008-12-08 17:23:26

“but that’s not enough”

Right, in fact some of that cr@p out in Happy Valley, OR is SO ugly I imagine many feel a prisoner to their own McMansion as sitting in your nearly vacant yard looking back on it would make you ill?

If you’ve driven through there, a lot of it is on hillsides so the ugliness abounds. You can see 3-tab roofing shingles in any direction as far as the eye can see! Many of the homes my wife and I liked over the years were really more about the “setting” than the home itself.

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Comment by awaiting wipeout
2008-12-08 19:26:41

DinOR- I agree. We lived in a view house ( a real view), but it had no mature trees, no visual or auditory privacy, no charm, and it was a two-story jungle. I’m with you, the setting makes the lifestyle and retreat. I don’t want a lot of land, but I want a home, not a glorified detached townhome (and we had 21′ between homes). So Ca

 
 
 
Comment by Kirisdad
2008-12-08 18:08:49

A lot of these early boomers had money sitting in the bank and decided to try the ‘get rich quick scheme’. Oh well, I’m sure they’re not broke, just won’t be able to help the KIDS as much as they dreamed.

 
 
 
Comment by Tim
2008-12-08 14:07:20

“Aloma says the salesman told them the home would be worth as much as $1 million by the time it was finished in the summer. They closed the deal in August 2006 on the four-bedroom, 5,000-square-foot home for $633,865. It was a steal, they figured.”

Why wasn’t their immediate answer - “Then why is the builder not just going to put it on the market when it is built and pocket close to 400k. Why does he like me so much?”

Why would anyone expect a third party builder to cut them into the deal? It blows my mind.

Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-12-08 14:52:41

LOL. So true, and infuriatingly maddening.

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2008-12-08 14:18:16

“We have a lot to offer that isn’t available in other places.’”

Oh please shut up. You have no jobs, overpriced real estate and a lot of retirees. Florida west.

Comment by SMF
2008-12-08 14:29:30

Is there a place that is not expected to be overrun by retirees?

In the meantime, no one has bothered to really notice that most retirees LIKE and WANT to stick around the closest to their families…

Don’t ‘assume’ when evidence shows the contrary.

There was a good reason why there weren’t many McMansions before. Nothing changed, only the assumption that that is what people wanted.

Comment by Coloradoan
2008-12-08 14:46:15

Retirees?
Most of us just lost 50% of our “retirement” and he’s thinking there is still an enormous group of 58 to 65 year olds flush with cash who will come save his ass. Now even “retirees” need jobs. And they need houses that are not OVERPRICED by 43%.

Comment by Mike G
2008-12-08 17:16:52

Not to mention with the gutting of corporate pensions and retiree health benefits, a lot of potential retirees are still working and squirrelling away money to cover skyrocketing health care costs.

The boomer retirement wave isn’t going to be flush with disposable cash like the WW2 generation.

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Comment by scdave
2008-12-08 15:10:20

LIKE and WANT to stick around the closest to their families ??

And close to a good hospital….

Comment by SMF
2008-12-08 17:07:57

Of course, hospitals close are a must.

That’s why I LMAO when I see these retirement communities in BFE.

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Comment by DennisN
2008-12-08 18:00:22

In my own family I’ve noticed a trend to purchase a “retirement house” way out in the middle of nowhere - they bought the house they dreamed of in their 30’s. That’s not what a real retirement person wants.

I bought in Boise due to many things. First of all I never got to have a family due to working Silicon Valley wage-slave jobs all my life, so I could pick the location which pleased me. It’s cheap to live here, no liberals need apply, and there are really good hospitals within an easy ambulance drive of my house.

As a boomer I have NO “defined benefit” pension plan: just the money I’ve saved up over the years.

I bought a modest 1,985 square foot house here. Why would I want anything bigger?

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Comment by MacAttack
2008-12-08 18:51:55

Well, Central Oregon DOES have 6-month winters. I used to follow the LaPine Water Meter count. Folks would move to LaPine (granted, colder than Bend) from SoCal for a couple of years, have enough of 20-degree bright sunshine, and move back. Now we’ll see mass exodus - if they can get unstuck from their houses.

 
 
Comment by Quirk
2008-12-08 14:35:35

After all this mess, the Andersons had to tell their children they can’t help out with money any longer. ‘That’s a hard thing to tell them,’ Aloma says. ‘We don’t have it anymore.’”

STUPID! STUPID! STUPID!

My God! When are we going to convince people that you can’t gamble with money you aren’t afraid to lose?!?!

Comment by Bad Andy
2008-12-08 14:37:11

It’s hard to convince people when there are others telling them they can get rich quick on other people’s money.

Comment by j.nelson
2008-12-08 20:43:58

Tell that to the people in Washington D.C. ( I am loathe to call them leaders.)

They love O.P.M. It makes them rich.

Tax on.

Bear in the House

 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-12-08 14:45:58

Actually, you CAN gamble with money you AREN’T afraid to lose. But don’t gamble with money you ARE afraid to lose.

Comment by measton
2008-12-08 22:29:43

Actually, you CAN gamble with money you AREN’T afraid to lose. But don’t gamble with money you ARE afraid to lose.

Ask any CEO on Wallstreet and he will agree with the above.

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2008-12-08 14:42:33

said Bill Hutchinson, president of the Thurston County Realtors Association.”

“‘It has really caused people to think again,’ he said.”

You think? I am quite sure it’s going to be a good while longer before that statement holds true. We have been successfully dumbing down our countries citizenry for a long,long time now, so thinking again will take some doing. I’ll keep my fingers crossed though.

 
Comment by DeepInTheHeartOf
2008-12-08 15:00:24

I spent 1989 in the Pacific North West, splitting my time between Portland, and a rented house in Sunriver - an “upscale” residential area just south of Bend, OR.

I remember thinking how nice it would be to live in Sunriver, but at the same time it struck me that the people who could afford to live there must have their incomes secured from somewhere else, as there sure want’ much in the way of high paying employment in Bend, and it was a long, long way to anywhere there was.

That was 20 years ago, and I am sure the area has grown a lot, and has suffered from the hated equity locusts, but I think it would have to still be true that local wages are insufficient for the distribution of houses there. Places like Bend which see themselves as catering to affluent retirees and resort goers are going to see ever increasing competition from each other for the dwindling supply of such people.

Comment by exeter
2008-12-08 17:06:19

I have a sister and brother in law in central Oregon near Bend. Both lost their jobs recently(construction related) and the forecast appears dark. According to them, the inventory of empty storefronts in Bend is growing. Like you mentioned, I don’t know how anyone survives there on those kind of local wages. And even those jobs are evaporating.

 
 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2008-12-08 15:05:05

“It was a steal, they figured, at $125 a square foot.”

That depends on whether smaller homes were being built for a lot more, doesn’t it? What I mean is, shouldn’t larger homes cost less per square foot on average?

Por ejemplo, the ppsf on two 2000 sf houses should be more than on one 4000 sf house.

She’s probably used to seeing ppsf on smaller homes similar to her own.

 
Comment by Groundhogday
2008-12-08 15:08:04

Looks like Palin might be a one-term governor.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2008-12-08 15:12:42

Ah, but she’s the future of the Republican party. A one-term governship is peanuts compared to where (she thinks) she’s going.

 
Comment by scdave
2008-12-08 15:14:15

Why ??

Comment by scdave
2008-12-08 15:15:40

One term governor…Why ??

Comment by Olympiagal
2008-12-08 15:40:49

‘Cause she makes Dan Quayle look like a brainiac?

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-12-08 15:57:48

That would be Brainiac 5 from Superman lore. :)

 
Comment by scdave
2008-12-08 15:58:41

I guess I am asking was something said that she will not seek a second term or are we just assuming ?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2008-12-08 16:19:06

‘That would be Brainiac 5 from Superman lore.’

Oh. My. G*d. I just KNEW I was right, when I fell in love with you.*

* I mean that in a non-g*ay way. Like in a spiritual sort of way.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-12-08 17:00:12

The most disturbing thing about that KnowNothing is she *believes* she’s qualified.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-08 17:22:07

It’s okay. Swinging both ways gives you maximum options. ;-)

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-12-08 17:38:20

Understood Olympiagal.

Grew up reading comic books. Superman and Batman my favorites. I have a collection of them. Just a few weeks ago I bought a few to read what was going on in the Superman and Batman world. I also watch Smallville on TV.

 
 
 
 
Comment by jane
2008-12-08 21:22:37

What - she’s not ‘polished’ enough for your genteel tastes?

Knock it off already. Haven’t you had enough eastern seaboard masters of the universe already? With the cookie cutter suits and cloned verbiage? Nobody home and fuzzy logic? Newspeak with which to hypnotize us sheeple?

At least she’s contra what we’ve been brainwashed to revere over the past 30 years or so. Everybody who’s entrenched, and who has their hands in the pockets of the about-to-become-entrenched, and who is getting baksheesh from the formerly entrenched, is rotten to the core, IMHO, and I am allergic to anybody who looks, speaks and maneuvers like them.

Palin is a sure bet to disrupt the internal rot propagation sequence.

Think, man! Have the courage of your convictions. Don’t like the pus that got us here? Then elevate those who were systematically cut out of it. Elevate midwest farmers. Elevate ex-machine tool manufacturers. Elevate those who have the know how to field dress a moose, and sink a well by hand. Believe it or not, there are intelligent farmers. surplused manufacturing types, rust belt and wilderness state denizens. However, they have not been schooled in the ways of the newspeak you appear to crave.

A pox on you for your self-righteousness.

Comment by measton
2008-12-08 22:34:09

A pox on you for your self-righteousness.

Dam now we will all have to go to her minister to get this witchcraft removed.

Comment by phillygal
2008-12-09 06:29:43

Or to Joe Biden’s church’s exorcist squad.

Or to the little Hindu monkey god that 0bama carries in his pocket.

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Comment by MacAttack
2008-12-08 22:42:21

We already had one idiot President… no need for another, thank you very much.
- Native Washingtonian (as in, state of)

Comment by jane
2008-12-09 03:41:56

Point is, intelligence has little to do with it, and is a deterrent to sound biting. Prez is there to float the trial balloons, start the dialogue and change the course of debate. Prez’s charge is to set the national premise. E.g., What is important? I’m not the betting type. But I will bet that ANY prez who comes in sans east coast handlers, sans east coast conditioning, will do less harm in every arena than what we have witnessed over the past thirty years. Different folk, different premises.

IMHO, It’s a matter of world view. The entrenched world views are foggy, obscured by much putrefaction on the collective brain. Almost any alternative is better - what is the downside? Annihilation is not likely: Any prez has too many handlers perpetually about to push the red button.

IMHO, the question to ask is “how can the cumulative harm from a succession of administrations with a homogeneous world view be driven into a different channel”? One which requires its own time to gather momentum and do real harm? Answer: Change the premise of the debate.

Elmer Fudd would be a super candidate and coterie. Would take a good generation to get up a head of steam. The entrenched thieves could spend their energies in circular debates, heated policy discussions, posturing and photo opps with little time left over to legislate, or to steal without benefit of legislation.

Meanwhile, the country can rebuild.
My two cents.

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Comment by MacAttack
2008-12-09 11:05:32

The President’s job is to make the tough decisions and use the office as a bully pulpit. Intelligence has EVERYTHING to do with it. An idiot president (I called him The Accidental President when he was selected in 2000) got us into this mess.

You’re welcome to your own personal 1932 but leave the rest of us out of it.

 
 
 
Comment by baabaabooie
2008-12-09 07:09:11

Amen jane

Comment by Jackie Childs
2008-12-09 20:43:58

Well said Jane. The arrogance of some is beyond words.

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Comment by Tony Danza
2008-12-11 13:13:59

Can I haz prezidency now?

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by reuven
2008-12-08 15:17:38

“The Andersons never spent a night in the Happy Valley money pit. But the mortgage, fees and taxes cost them close to $100,000. ”I saw dollar signs,’ she says.”

Meanwhile, millions of people who have been very carefully and dutifully saving for their retirements have lost $100,000 or more. Even conservative investors, who may have been 50% in a broad market fund and 50% in an investment-grade and governement bond fund would be lucky if they only lost 20% over the past few years. So why are we feeling sorry for folks making risky bets?

Comment by kpom
2008-12-08 17:52:38

“The Andersons never spent a night in the Happy Valley money pit.”

Any bets that they signed loan documents claiming that the “Happy Valley money pit” was going to be their new primary residence?

 
 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2008-12-08 15:22:28

I have lots of family in Alaska, they all have lots of real estate and stocks for retirement. Hope they don’t crash and burn too badly.

Reading the Alaska thread made me think of a fellow Moabite who finally gave up on ever owning a house here and decided to go to Alaska. He was an outdoor writer/river guide and wrote a very gripping piece about not being able to follow his dreams of having a small modest place in Moab because everything had gone sky high. He was hoping for a better life up north. He’d worked up there teaching before so he knew about winter.

With everything crashing, I expect to see him back around one of these days. Maybe he can find that little house here someday after all. Nice guy.

 
Comment by salinasron
2008-12-08 15:39:29

Does anyone have an idea as to what it costs to really furnish out a 5000 sq.ft. house into a home? In the seventies I rented a condo in Riverside, Ca that had never been lived in. Why? Because the new owner was impressed by the model home but couldn’t afford to make it look as good as the model. I asked the salesman what it took to furnish out the 1000 sq. ft. model and he said between $50K-$70K.

Comment by scdave
2008-12-08 16:03:07

Kind of hard to know without seeing the furniture and window treatments but most of it is not as expensive as it looks…Good interior decorators are very good at making something look expensive when it is not…I think the 50k-70k for 1000 sq.ft is a little much..Likely could do it for far less that that…

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-12-08 16:01:46

Rancher if your still out there, what part of SW Oregon are you in?

When I was a wee lass, me and my family lived in Ashland. My parents moved their to help my grandparents. At the time they were managing the Corps Ranch outside of Ashland.

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-12-08 16:03:01

arrgh, their=there

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-08 17:23:46

Here, have a potato. (hands her a potato.)

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-12-08 17:29:31

This wouldn’t be a hot potato ;)

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Comment by milkcrate
2008-12-08 17:43:34

SF Gal…
Late to the party, as usual.
What’s up with the cat’s tater?

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-12-08 18:02:11

Not sure milkcrate. Have to plead ignorance here.

I’m going to take a wild guess and say it may be from one of FPSS recipies.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-08 18:10:43

Naah, it was one of those “unique” Olygal rants with a punchline that sears into your brain. ;-)

 
 
 
 
Comment by dude
2008-12-08 20:04:44

Corps Ranch?

Corpse Ranch?

Do you like Corpse w/Ranch?

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2008-12-08 20:50:30

:)

 
 
 
Comment by satan
2008-12-08 17:32:07

But home prices never go down in vancouver.. we are special… blah.. blah..

Comment by milkcrate
2008-12-08 17:41:44

Vancouver=smugger than a Sausalito coffee shop.
I wish no ill will on either area.
Attitude change would make locales more pleasant to visit, though.

 
Comment by borderbuster
2008-12-08 20:15:54

Lots of construction in White Rock. Drive by shows someone is living in those new houses. A friend in the construction business in the area is still very busy. I don’t have a clue where the money is coming from.

 
 
Comment by Paul Fraser
2008-12-08 20:10:09

RBC Bank President Gordon Nixon - Salary $11.73 Million

$100,000 - MISTAKE (FISHERMEN’S LOAN)

I’m a commercial fisherman fighting the Royal Bank of Canada (RBC Bank) over a $100,000 loan mistake. I lost my home, fishing vessel and equipment. Help me fight this corporate bully by closing your RBC Bank account.

There was no monthly interest payment date or amount of interest payable per month on my loan agreement. Date of first installment payment (Principal + interest) is approximately 1 year from the signing of my contract.
Demand loan agreements signed by other fishermen around the same time disclosed monthly interest payment dates and interest amounts payable per month.The lending policy for fishermen did change at RBC from one payment (principal + interest) per year for fishing loans to principal paid yearly with interest paid monthly. This lending practice was in place when I approached RBC.
Only problem is the loans officer was a replacement who wasn’t familiar with these type of loans. She never informed me verbally or in writing about this new criteria.

Phone or e-mail:
RBC President, Gordon Nixon, Toronto (416)974-6415
RBC Vice President, Sales, Anne Lockie, Toronto (416)974-6821
RBC President, Atlantic Provinces, Greg Grice (902)421-8112 mail to:greg.grice@rbc.com
RBC Manager, Cape Breton/Eastern Nova Scotia, Jerry Rankin (902)567-8600
RBC Vice President, Atlantic Provinces, Brian Conway (902)491-4302 mail to:brian.conway@rbc.com
RBC Vice President, Halifax Region, Tammy Holland (902)421-8112 mail to:tammy.holland@rbc.com
RBC Senior Manager, Media & Public Relations, Beja Rodeck (416)974-5506 mail to:beja.rodeck@rbc.com
RBC Ombudsman, Wendy Knight, Toronto, Ontario 1-800-769-2542 mail to:ombudsman@rbc.com
Ombudsman for Banking Services & Investments, JoAnne Olafson, Toronto, 1-888-451-4519 mail to:ombudsman@obsi.ca

http://www.corporatebully.ca
http://www.youtube.com/CORPORATEBULLY

“Fighting the Royal Bank of Canada (RBC Bank) one customer at a time”

Comment by reuven
2008-12-08 21:37:16

“There was no monthly interest payment date or amount of interest payable per month on my loan agreement. ”

And why, exactly, did you sign it?

 
 
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