It’s Like The Boom, Only Backwards
The News Press reports from Florida. “Lee County’s housing market is overflowing with three-bedroom, two-bathroom homes and that’s led to bargains on what was a much pricier commodity during the housing boom. There were 1,603 of them in Cape Coral and 1,814 in Lehigh - everything from upscale, canal-side digs to basic starter homes - found last week on the local MLS. James Sommers, an agent in Fort Myers, said they dominate sales in the Cape, a community he specializes in. ‘I’m selling 2- and 3-year-old homes, neat as a pin, for less than I sold lots two or three years ago,’ he said.”
“One of his Cape Coral listings, a three-two with a den, built in 2006, sold in October for the short-sale price of $85,000. Cape Coral homes spanned a broad range on the MLS. At the low end of the scale was a short sale home on Northeast 13th Place, built in 2004, for $49,900. The priciest was also a short sale, a circa-2002, waterfront home on Southwest 33rd Avenue, with a dock, pool and spa and 2,090 square feet of living area for $699,900.”
“In Lehigh, there were 726 three-twos listed for less than $100,000, the least expensive being a bank-owned home with 1,233 square feet of living area available for $36,000. The high end is represented by an upgrade-laden home with a pool highlighted by a waterfall with an asking price of $487,000.”
“‘Buyers are savvy now and practically ignoring these short sales and focusing on foreclosures because they will get what’s on their wish list at a price that’s awesome,’ said Lynne Brantley, a Realtor-broker associate in Lehigh. She described bank-owned homes as ‘the meat. This is the reality, foreclosures. There are people calling daily from all over the country buying these houses, sight unseen. It’s like the boom, only backwards.’”
The Naples News. “Cape Coral-Fort Myers is back on top. But not in a good way. In November, it took the No. 1 spot for foreclosure activity in the nation. Robert Vreeland, broker and owner of Re/Max Coastal Living in Bonita Springs, fears that next year will only be worse for foreclosures in Southwest Florida. ‘Now all of the sudden a lot of these subprime mortgages are coming due, or the adjustable rates are readjusting and people are losing their jobs and can’t pay these high mortgages,’ he said.”
“‘The foreclosures have to get stopped,’ Vreeland said. ‘They are killing communities. They are killing the values of the homes and they are causing the problem to get worse and worse.’”
The Sun Sentinel. “Federal prosecutors filed a fraud charge Thursday against a Miami man accused of inflated credit scores in the creation of mortgage-backed securities at a South Florida firm. Steven Gordon substituted higher credit ratings on more than 2,800 loans he acquired as a director at Bayview Financial in Coral Gables, prosecutors alleged.’
“Bayview unwittingly packaged the doctored loans with others and sold shares to investors. Between 2004 and 2006, Bayview and its affiliates sold roughly $4.5 billion in commercial and residential mortgages to investors.”
The Tampa Bay Business Journal. “Builders are making heartfelt appeals to Florida financing officials and even key members of the U.S. Senate to curtail the number of construction loans banks are calling in. The results might be casualties before improvement as bankers battle not just for dollars, but also for survival.”
“‘We’re not looking for a handout or a bailout,’ said John Fowke, the incoming president of the Florida Home Builders Association. ‘We need their help in helping us find the bottom to this housing mess. The Fed is forcing lending institutions to do certain things within certain guidelines, which is making it impossible to find that bottom. Instead, they’re creating a downward spiral that we can’t stop.’”
“With regulators looking over their shoulders, banks have to ensure existing and new loans are strong, a necessary evil of the current economy, said Alex Sanchez, president of the Florida Bankers Association in Tallahassee. ‘We’re in an overbuild situation in Florida,’ he said. ‘They know it, and we know it. And we have got to reduce inventory before we start building more homes.’”
“A moratorium could destroy the very banks the FDIC is trying to protect, FBA’s Sanchez said. ‘I just don’t think it’s possible,’ Sanchez said. ‘The first job of bank regulators is to keep the banking industry safe. You can’t just make a blanket statement like, ‘Don’t call loans for the year.’ What if the loan needs to be called? What if that means the bank survives or not?’”
The News Journal. “Not only are existing homes slow to sell in Volusia County, but fewer new ones are being built. Permits were issued for 311 new housing units in July through September for the county and 16 cities, down 60 percent from 775 in the third quarter of 2007, according to the most recent market report by Hanley Wood.”
“Hanley Wood doesn’t track Flagler County. ‘The past six months are the worst I have seen it,’ said Anthony Viscomi, head of sales and marketing for Ormond Beach-based Viscomi Hansard Builders.”
“Multifamily housing permits fell a dramatic 81 percent from 401 last third quarter to 75 this past quarter. Single-family home permits fell 37 percent, from 374 to 236.”
“‘We have all aggressively priced our new homes, and we are whittling away at our inventory, but until all the inventory is reduced, no one is going to build on spec,’ said Charlene Irland, ICI Homes vice president of administration.”
The Capital News Service. “Declining homes sales over the past year and a half have helped spur a two billion dollar hole in the state budget. The good news, sales have picked up over the past two months and the average price of a home in Florida has fallen to 170,000 dollars. Florida Association of Realtors Spokesman John Sebree said the climate is perfect for first time buyers.”
“‘At this point our opportunity is the first home buyers. The person who doesn’t have a house to sell before they can buy a house. They now have the lowest price they’ll probably ever have, lower interest rates than they’ll probably every have,’ said Sebree.”
The Herald Tribune. “Only five cities in the nation built housing at a faster rate than North Port since 2005, according to new U.S. Census data showing just how overheated the city’s housing boom was. In fact, North Port added more housing in the past eight years than in the 40 after its inception in 1959.”
“University of Central Florida economic expert Sean Snaith calls places like North Port ‘pockets of pain around the state,’ because of their heavy dependence on the building and real estate industries. According to the area’s Multiple Listing Service, 1,302 single-family homes were on the market in North Port as of Wednesday, 632 of them built since 2005.”
“‘That’s a big inventory, especially in this economy where credit channels have been clogged up,’ said Snaith.”
“According to local real estate agent Kent Lewis, speculators were drawn to North Port’s abundance of cheap, buildable lots, much cheaper than the limited supply of land closer to the coast. ‘You could have a two-room shack, if it was priced below $100,000, they were gone in a day,’ said Lewis, noting that many first-time buyers could not even get in the market as prices rose almost monthly.”
“The number of foreclosures filed in Southwest Florida and across the state fell dramatically in November and is expected to fall further in December because of moratoriums declared by the state’s lenders at the urging of Gov. Charlie Crist.”
“The dramatic declines had at least one Realtor who specializes in foreclosed properties declaring that the foreclosure crisis has peaked. ‘We may have passed the top of the cycle,’ said Matt Augustyniak, broker in Bradenton. ‘Three years ago takes us to the end of 2005 when sales dropped off. There were not as many mortgages in 2006.’”
“Dennis Black, a Port Charlotte real estate consultant, believes the November drop is a temporary blip. ‘Remember, November is a month with a holiday. People tend to work less,’ he said. Black also believes that the only thing the current 45-day moratorium on foreclosures will do is create a landslide of filings on the 46th day. ‘It’s not going to change the fact that people are in houses they can’t afford,’ he said.”
“Margaret Amador, an agent who specializes in short sales, sees other investors holding off because of the financial crisis. ‘I have a little three-bedroom house I am trying to sell on North Lockwood Ridge Road and I had a cash buyer who was willing to pay $77,000,’ Amador said. ‘But when the crisis deepened, this buyer decided he wanted to hold on to his cash.’”
“For Venice resident Steven Baker, the crisis has produced nothing but frustration. He is trying to work with a bank on a commercial property he and his wife bought in 2006. ‘In November 2007, we came to the bank in good faith to advise them we needed some options regarding our loan as we had been unable to sell, rent, or use the property,’ Baker said in an e-mail to the Herald-Tribune. ‘They managed to drag the process on and on, not returning phone calls, e-mails, etc.’”
“‘I think it all comes down to the fact the financial institutions really don’t know how to handle the current situation to protect themselves, so will do whatever they can do at the cost of the borrowers, no matter what that cost is,’ Baker said. ‘They are finding the government will continue to issue handouts to themselves, so why make an effort to help the borrowers? They will get their money no matter what. It’s a combination of greed and stupidity.’”
“Florida’s budget crisis has grown so severe that some state legislators are abandoning their long-held resistance to tax increases or severe program-altering budget cuts. Legislators from both parties are signaling something far bigger is going to have to happen to deal with a $2 billion shortfall in the $66 billion state budget this year that could grow to a $6 billion hole through next year.”
“‘To just make a few cuts is not going to do it,’ said state Rep. Bill Galvano, R-Bradenton. ‘It has to be a real bold restructuring of government programs.’”
“State Sen. Nancy Detert, R-Venice, said legislators are going to have to look more seriously at issues like tax increases, and maybe not just on cigarettes as some have suggested. After the Senate was briefed on the details of the crisis, Detert said it is clear every revenue stream is going down. ‘Even gambling revenues are down,’ Detert said.”
“With Florida’s property values — which form the tax base for local governments and schools — expected to plunge a record $266 billion next year, Crist and the Legislature are confronting two options: Either increase taxes significantly, or make the deepest cuts to programs that the state has seen in decades.”
“Sen. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, who has long advocated a greater diversification of Florida’s economic base, said the crisis was not unexpected in a state that has built its financial health on growth, which has nearly come to a halt because of the recession. ‘This is what happens when you build a state based on growth rather than on producing something,’ Gelber said. ‘Growth is not a product and the fumes of growth cannot forever be the fuel of a state’s economy.’”
Why people want to buy those home in Cape Coral is beyond me. Wait till they find out those cheap houses are not so cheap. One hurricane and the insurance triples, there is no industry there for rental income, for retirement, unless you homestead the property as your residence, you run the risk of your taxes going up by whatever the county deems it to be and there is nothing to do in that area.
Ann,
I wonder what locals would give to have back the FL Jimmy Buffet described in his earlier albums in the 70’s? A beachcombers paradise! Livin’ off sunshine and all that. Any chance it can become ‘that’ yet again?
Any chance it can become ‘that’ yet again?
None whatsoever.
Florida has been destroyed by carpet-bagger Yankee trash. They want to live like they do up north, never recognizing that this is a sub-tropical swampland.
Before the advent of Air-conditioning, Florida was not much in demand, except as a winter retreat.
Now you can live here, year-round in complete comfort, so long as you stay at home or at the mall.
John McDonald, an author of the 60’s and 70’s predicted back in the 70’s that Florida would continue to attract people here until the population reached about 30 million people. His view was that at that point, the congestion, crowding and sprawl would make it no longer attractive as a tropical paradise. I think we are now about 21 Million. When I was in grade school, we had 7 million (early 60’s).
John was right. Traffic and crowding become worse every year, and our favorite places are over-built and over-crowded.
I hope for a busy hurricane season this year.
Travis McGee would cry if he coulc drive miss Agnes by all of the mcmansion-littered sprawl of suburban white-trash neighborhoods.
Not so true, especially in the twenties.
“Before the advent of Air-conditioning, Florida was not much in demand, except as a winter retreat.”
It will happen. And many of Jimmy Buffett’s fans not only will not be able to retire, but will realize that the mythologized Margaritaville lifestyle isn’t nearly as fun as they thought.
Nope..sorry never…those days left when they took spring break from Ft. Lauderdale Beach…
Florida’s $2B budget shortfall looks puny next to California’s $40B!!
I saw the Seminole county school superintendant on TV the other night. He was literally crying. He said they were going to close 5-8 elementary schools and consolidate. He said they would not have a school under 800 students. This means firing the staff at those schools.
Bail me out before you go-go.
Hernando County gave their teachers a 2.5% raise. Guess what? They had reserves stashed away and could afford to do it. A beginning teacher used to make about $32,000, now they make $35,000.00. That’s awfully cheap for what is essentially combat pay. In some parts of Hernado, teeth are a luxury.
It is puny.
Ask the Governator.
I’ll be back.
Ann - what would a ball park monthly PITI payment be for one of those $85k houses? Would it be cheaper than renting?
Skip, assuming 20% down and a 30 year mortage at 5.75%, I estimate your monthly PITI at about $650. Of course you need to bring almost $20K to the settlement (for the down payment, plus escrows for taxes and insurance, plus junk fees).
Add another $150/month MINIMUM to put into your own repair/replacement “escrow account” to cover the things that eventually go bad.
What’cha paying in rent right now?
also remember your taxes would be based on the comps in the area. So if you paid $ 85k for your house but the houses around you sold during the boom at $250k. you will pay taxes of 5k vs $1,700. Now insurance is based on replacement cost not your cost of the home. Insurance on that home will run you around 3-4k a year. Renting in that area is very cheap and competitive since there is no industry. You may breakeven or have to add money each month.
You’re right on Ann. That’s why the houses are only $ 85,000. I rent out a house on the east coast. Very low mortgage (bought in ‘86) I clear very little after my taxes and ins. tripled in ‘06. Boy were specuvestors shocked when they got stuck with flips in FL.
“‘The foreclosures have to get stopped,’ Vreeland said. ‘They are killing communities. They are killing the values of the homes and they are causing the problem to get worse and worse.’”
These poor ignorant souls never give up. Don’t worry there Veerland they will stop at some point, just not the way you’d like to see it happen.
Right after we hear that the only thing buyers are interested in are foreclosures, we hear that “they need to be stopped!”
Without foreclosure, NOTHING would be selling!
I don’t expect intelligence from some housewife-turned-Realtor(tm), but you hear the same “foreclosures must be stopped” rhetoric from Democrats, Republicans, and the head of the Bailout Oversight Committee (as interviewed yesterday on NPR).
The message to people who were smart enough NOT to buy property during the bubble is clear: “**** YOU!”
“Reacting to news that more than half of borrowers have failed to keep up with their mortgage payments even after the terms of their loans have been modified, Office of Thrift Supervision director John Reich on Monday said that focusing on job creation might be a better use of federal dollars. See full story.”
http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=00ba4109649a441a906b11b05606c3fd&siteid=nwtreal&sguid=mCT7Acw1_UumzbkmsF0PPQ
Finally some people are starting to think. Foreclosure is merely a move, prolonged unemployment can make you destitute. It’s jobs they should focus on (and managing trade and outsourcing) foreclosures are not a problem.
‘This is what happens when you build a state based on growth rather than on producing something,’ Gelber said. ‘Growth is not a product and the fumes of growth cannot forever be the fuel of a state’s economy.’”
Well damn, this one may be on to something.
wmbz,
Why pee on FL’s parade? Insert “country” and you’ll be a lot closer.
Yep, Gelber speaks sooth. I forget which Florida politician got up on his hind legs and declared that Florida’s main industry was “growth”. I’m glad someone finally called him a liar. Unless you’re talking about cancer, which is does happen to be big business in Florida.
Could we clone Gelber for use here in Arizona?
I could never figure out why so-called “investors” thought (and continue to think) that a company showing 10-15% “growth” based on crap/house of cards/creative accounting, is “worth” more than a company that actually builds/produces something, but only shows “growth” of 2-3-4% year.
“‘We’re not looking for a handout or a bailout,’ said John Fowke, the incoming president of the Florida Home Builders Association.
Sorry, John - the builders are Fowke-d.
“With regulators looking over their shoulders, banks have to ensure existing and new loans are strong, a necessary evil of the current economy, said Alex Sanchez, president of the Florida Bankers Association in Tallahassee
A necessary evil? So if the economy was different, we could dispense with the loans being strong?
These guys are a piece of work.
Here are excerpts from a Daytona-area real estate company’s web site newsletter for the last six months. Note how capitulation arrived in December (this month).
July: Activity from prospective buyers continues to increase… but sales continue to remain sluggish… we think we have seen 90-100% of the price declines that we are going to see… The process of moving properties from weak hands to strong hands is well underway… the slowing of price reductions indicates the process is nearing an end.
August: The real estate market in our area continues to just move sideways along what appears, from a volume perspective, to be the bottom… We do not believe the real estate slump will get worse- and we do think the credit crisis will end soon.
September: (Starts with a discussion of the recent OFHEO numbers.) …OFHEO found the price declines in the second quarter… to be not as bad as the first quarter. Yet the declines for the year ending June 30 were worse than for the year ending March 31. So we have the twelve month figure looking better and the three month figure looking worse. This is the way things are when a market turns around.
October: (Starts with a rambling analogy to a marathon runner.) It was the liquidity crisis that tripped the real estate market last month, dumping it on all fours (photo of a runner on her hands and knees). The question is whether the market will get right back up…or whether the liquidity crisis… will hold it down a while longer.
November: The question we were left with last month was whether the market’s abysmal performance in September was a temporary stumble or a full-blown collapse… it appears September was an aberration rather than the start of a new leg down.
December: Unfortunately there is virtually no good news on the housing front… the situation just keeps getting worse and the housing market now has little chance of recovery without a recovery in the whole financial system, which at this point, to be perfectly frank, has collapsed.
ROTFLMAO!!!!
“With regulators looking over their shoulders, banks have to ensure existing and new loans are strong, a necessary evil of the current economy, said Alex Sanchez
I’ll feel a lot better when the majority of people realize that strong loans are a necessary good!
Exactly - Someone should tell Barney Frank that
Just had a client pick up a home in Palm Beach County…livable mind you…for $55,000. 2BR/1BA on .5 acres. Prices will continue to crash…
I love this. 3/2’s in Gville are still at wishing prices. Somewhat reduced since 2007, but still stratospheric compared to incomes. Job losses have only barely begun here. Only the top folks get raises.
Rentals are everywhere. Looking for weakness in that market as well. Already it’s clear that pricing power is deflating like air from a leaky tire.
Paper reported that building permits issued have shrunk and the county and city are freaking about revenue shortfalls. A few years ago they had so much new revenue they were dreaming up ridiculous ways to spend it. (Yet my agency was run by idiots who failed to get the city to pay for our needed infrastructure improvements while the money was there. Lame.)
Hilarious that prices are truly crashing in SW Fla… we can’t be far behind. School enrollments are finally dropping here too (we were the last) although the school dept thinks they can ‘fix’ the numbers by the deadline (huh?). Suddenly they are very, very concerned about dropouts and truancy! Haw haw!
Bernie Machen, UF president, decided to graciously accept his 285,000 bonus this year, despite noting he failed to meet his own goal of increasing minority enrollment (it has dropped, likely due to his incessant increasing of fees and war against coop housing for disadvantaged students, etc, etc). He did pledge to donate an equal amount (over a period of several years, not that the paper picked up on this, because they’re stupid) to a charity for disadvantaged students. (”Here, I’ll take away what was given to you in perpetuity by the past generation, by hook or by crook, but give you some dribs and drabs back so I look good in the papers. And now I control whether you go to school or not. Better kiss my ass.”)
I noticed that North FL, G-ville in particular is desperately holding onto fantasy prices as recently as late last summer yet the wheels are coming off the short bus in SW FL.
SW FL was a little slow to get to the party to begin with. I’m certain prices will fall fast, hard, and soon.
Nobody I know of ever expected to see prices fall below mid 1990’s levels, but in the foreclosure market, that’s where they are.
Eh? SW FL has crashed harder and earlier than anywhere else in the nation, save except possibly for CA central valley.
I know - I’ve been keeping track, since I’d like to live there someday (my wife is from Bradenton).
Median prices are generally down 40-50% there. They started down in 2006, before many other bubble areas started down. Sarasota-Bradenton median has gone from $350k to $169k - a 52% drop! Ft. Myers, Tampa, Naples, etc. are similar. A world of hurt (or help, as the case may be).
Prices WILL fall fast hard, and soon?
First, SW FL was one of the earliest bubbly areas. Also, there just weren’t mid-1990s levels in some of these places (esp. Cape Coral) because they barely existed in mid-1990. Just because absolute prices at the top were moderate compared to other areas doesn’t mean it wasn’t a tremendous bubble - look at the %age drops, which are already among the highest in the country.
Paul,
I’ve been here through the whole thing. I can tell you that Southeast FL had a bubble going for them (us) starting in 2002. While houses became $250K and $300K here, on that coast they were still selling for as little as $100K. It wasn’t until mid 2003 when prices started to get into the $200K+ insanity on the west coast.
Comparing SW Florida to SE Florida price-wise is Apples/oranges. The bubble DEFINITELY began in SW Florida earlier and it is and has been more pronounced. The bubble in SE Florida began in the Fall of 2005–not 2002
“The bubble in SE Florida began in the Fall of 2005–not 2002″
Palm Beach County median
Nov. 05 $421,500
Oct. 08 $264,600
Don`t have it for 2002 but it was about $200,000
Palm Beach County median price
August 02 $199,000
November 05 $421,500
” The bubble in SE Florida began in the Fall of 2005–not 2002″
I live across from the new luxury apts “The Bartram” in G’ville. Every night I notice that there are no lights on in the place. It’s gigantic and completely vacant.
By the way Not a Gator,
Notice that the price peak was much later in G’vill (more like 2007). The decline will simply come a little later as well… resets n’ all.
“‘Buyers are savvy now [...]. There are people calling daily from all over the country buying these houses, sight unseen. ”
Um, since when has buying houses “sight unseen” been considered savvy???
This is either total BS, or there is still a _long_ ways to go in FL.
Bingo, Prime. “Sight unseen” is what they were doing DURING the bubble.
I would never, EVER buy a house sight unseen in Florida. I was talking to a lady at a garage sale where the house next door was pretty much abandoned. Half a million bucks, too. She said it was full of rats and water snakes. Saw another place up in Florida lake country a few days ago where I walked up to a broken window and the stench of mold was enuf to gag a maggot. Not to mention it had settlement problems so bad there were separations on the concrete. I’m not talking about mere cracks. I’m talking major rifts and fissures.
You can’t leave a Florida home empty too long before it starts to rot from the inside.
“You can’t leave a Florida home empty too long before it starts to rot from the inside.”
One interesting facet of this may be that the Florida inventory glut will get “resolved” faster than the inventory glut in Arizona, Nevada, etc. Things last way longer in the desert.
(Not the use of “resolved” rather than “absorbed”, since they won’t be bought and lived in, but instead demolished.)
Will bottom-level prices linger longer in dryer places as a result?
“‘Buyers are savvy now [...]. There are people calling daily from all over the country buying these houses, sight unseen. ”
If there is anything that pisses me off, it’s this type of realtard-esque stretching the truth and lame attempts at instilling a sense of urgency. Very much the same criminal activity used by realturds during the run up.
“Steven Gordon substituted higher credit ratings on more than 2,800 loans”
Folks, ‘this’ why the effort is focused on “industry insiders”. I’d say these boys hit pay dirt.
“A moratorium could destroy the very banks the FDIC is trying to protect, FBA’s Sanchez said. ‘I just don’t think it’s possible,’ Sanchez said. ‘The first job of bank regulators is to keep the banking industry safe. You can’t just make a blanket statement like, ‘Don’t call loans for the year.’ What if the loan needs to be called? What if that means the bank survives or not?’”
I wonder if any of the politicians who put in place myriad knee-jerk foreclosure moratoriums gave this banker’s concerns a moment’s thought? I suppose there is some kind of bailout program waiting in the wings to fix any problems which might arise.
“Sen. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, who has long advocated a greater diversification of Florida’s economic base, said the crisis was not unexpected in a state that has built its financial health on growth, which has nearly come to a halt because of the recession. ‘This is what happens when you build a state based on growth rather than on producing something,’ Gelber said. ‘Growth is not a product and the fumes of growth cannot forever be the fuel of a state’s economy.’
Wow! He’s ALMOST right! I’m shocked!
Substitute “selling condos to each other” everytime you see the word “growth” and this would be a 100% true statement.
The fallacy is that there was no growth! People, for the most part, were selling houses to each other! That’s just moving things around while banks were able to create instruments that, come the bailout, let them print money by proxy for the US treasury
“State Sen. Nancy Detert, R-Venice, said legislators are going to have to look more seriously at issues like tax increases, and maybe not just on cigarettes as some have suggested. After the Senate was briefed on the details of the crisis, Detert said it is clear every revenue stream is going down. ‘Even gambling revenues are down,’ Detert said.”
This is why we’re in trouble in Florida, pols like Nancy Detert. Severe and deep budget cuts is what’s needed, plain and simple. But no, she wants to look at tax increases. All this knee jerk response leads to more and more trouble. For example, the Post Office raised rates and what happens? People don’t ship larger boxes any more if they can help it. Cut back on expenses? Heaven forbid!!!! And what did raising the rates accomplish? Fewer people using a more expensive service. In Florida, if they raise taxes, more people will leave.
More people leaving, more unoccupied property, more abandoned property, less taxes paid, more problems for government to take care of. On and on.
Get over it, Nancy. Yer clueless.
“And what did raising the rates accomplish? Fewer people using a more expensive service. In Florida, if they raise taxes, more people will leave”.
Palmetto…
You know that’s all Nancy Detart knows. She wasn’t fiscally sharp before she got elected and nothing magic happened after she was. I am fairly sure pols are handed a play book guide to doing their ‘jobs’. Taxpayer be damned!
“Nancy Detart”
ROTFLMAO! Or, Nancy Detard.
Even Better!
Sorry if this posts three times. My first two attempts landed me on a page unavailable notice.
USA Today printed these alleged facts today:
“When the housing bubble began to deflate in 2006, history had a sobering lesson to teach. Home values had closely tracked three common-sense measures for many years:
“Income — Home values floated at about three times average household income from 1950 to 2000. In 2006, the average household income was $66,500. Under the traditional model, home prices should have been about $200,000. Instead, the typical home sold for $301,000.
“Rent — Homes traditionally have sold for about 20 times what it would cost to rent them for a year. In 2006, houses were selling for 32 times annual rent. ”
I thought traditional prices were qpproximately 3X income AFTER TAXES, and 10X yearly rent (or 120X monthly rent). This reporter has doubled the second number to 20X yearly rent, thereby making 32X annual rent look about 50% too high, rather than 200% too high. Also, I question the “average” household income of $66,500, but, then, I question everything.
You can read the whole mess here:
http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/news/20081212/1ahouseprices12_cv.art.htm
“There are people calling daily from all over the country buying these houses, sight unseen. It’s like the boom, only backwards.”
How do these Realtors sleep at night with all the lies they tell?
I am glad for the falling prices in SW FL and am awaiting a response from the “Bank” (albeit bankrupt bank) on a cash offer I have placed on a home at 75% off peek, basically back to mid 1980’s pricing.
Many of us called FL home for years and left due to outsourcing of our jobs and the explosion in home prices (I sold pre-bubble and dealth with constant employment relocation all over the country).
I have wanted to go back to the place I called home for many years and now I have the opportunity. I will take FL any day over the ice storm we are dealing with here in the NE today.
“I have wanted to go back to the place I called home for many years and now I have the opportunity. I will take FL any day over the ice storm we are dealing with here in the NE today.”
Come on home, walt. We need more intelligent life in Florida. Being from the Northeast myself, I know what you mean about the ice storms. It really sucks. I was just reading about how Governor Deval Patrick up in Mazz is telling folks it is going to be days until they get their power back. In the meantime, it’s a mess.
I once was caught on the road in an ice storm near Chicago. I slowed to 10 mph and it still felt too fast — cars, including mine, were sliding all over the place. When I made it to where I was going, I turned on the news and heard about a twenty-car accident that had happened a couple of miles behind me.
It is a little after 5 PM, the sun is about to set, and the temp is still 48 degrees. You don’t have to go all the way to Florida to have tolerable winter weather.
Well, a 20-car pileup @ 10 mph isn’t going to do much more than dent a few bumpers!
The early-season storms have always been the worst, as too many people forget how to drive in the stuff. Being smooth is more important than your speed. Any sudden movements, even small ones, can cause a loss of control. 4 wheel drive helps you go but doesn’t do squat to help you stop. And on and on.
I always felt sorry for folks living in areas that don’t traditionally get much in the way of winter weather. Instead of getting snow, those places often are just barely cold enough and get the sleet and ice that’s just so hard to deal with. And to make it worse, those places rarely have much in the way of salt/sand to spread around.
Who here thinks FL is going to wind up instituting a state income tax?
And if they do, will that be the final death knell for retirees coming to the Sunshine State?
I believe FL will raise the state sales tax to 7% before they institute a state income tax. While it’s a possibility, I think we’ve got some time before that happens.
State income tax is something the Florida Democrats and limousine liberals LOVE to speculate about here in Florida. They need a drool cup when they talk about it. It would have to be put to a vote, because it would change the state constitution.
When they insituted state income tax in Connecticut, all of a sudden we had an influx of affluent folks from CT declare Florida as their homestead. Most were folks who already had a second home here, and so they did a switcheroo and the second home became the main residence. I had a client at the time who did that and others followed suit.
Florida is a Republican controlled state and has been forever. State legislature and the Governor’s office. This problem is a Republican produced problem. Florida’s lack of income tax did not do anything to help the crises the Republicans created.
Why would an income tax be worse for retirees than an increase in the sales tax? I would think a retiree would care more about a sales tax increase - they’re at the point in their lives where they’re spening money, not earning it. Not via wages, anyway.
I’m assuming a state income tax would tax all income, including interest, dividends, and SS.
In which case, retirees would care quite a bit.
Depends on whether they tax pensions as income. FL needs to tax cigarettes and alcohol a little more. A small sales tax increase and more massive budget cuts. FL has become, now more than ever, a state of haves and have nots. The rich have always made out in FL, no income taxes, cheap RE tax ( for long term residents).
“Your future lies in Florida, the fair white godess of states”
http://blogs.tampabay.com/buzz/2008/12/arrivals-to-cri.html#comments
How would you like to have a governor that looked like this? What a creep. Wonder how much he spends on his Tallahassee tanning booth. . .