How Low Is Too Low?
It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “The housing market is so bad that some banks and builders that had been business partners are now adversaries, and experts are using the dreaded ‘D’ word. Eugene James, head of the Atlanta division of the research company Metrostudy, said the 22 metro counties it covers ‘are in a housing depression right now.’”
“Elliot Eisenberg, economist with the National Association of Home Builders, said Atlanta should continue to build even though demand isn’t there. ‘Yeah, we are robbing Peter to pay Paul,’ he said. ‘But that’s OK because Paul is dead.’”
“Rick Wallick moved into a new, three-bedroom $200,000 home in Maricopa, Ariz., in October 2005. Today, the home is worth $80,000. The disabled software engineer stopped making mortgage payments this month. His $70,000 down payment is now worthless. His dream house will be foreclosed on next year. ‘We’re so far underwater it’s not funny,’ says Wallick.”
“Shelley McComb used a no-money-down, interest-only ARM to pay $199,000 in December 2006 for a new three-bedroom home near Birmingham, Ala. The house’s assessed value briefly rose to $225,000.
Now, she needs to move to Atlanta where her husband got a promotion. The McCombs put their home up for sale in March. After getting no offers, they dropped their price to $179,000. They’d settle for $160,000.”
“Shelley McComb, who manages a doggie day care center, says, ‘I wish we’d rented.’”
“Soledad, a rural California town known for its wineries and the nearby prisons where many of the residents work, experienced explosive growth during the boom. Four different builders had projects under way, each with long buyer waiting lists, seven real estate offices were open to accommodate frenzied buyers, mortgage fraud was rampant, and people stretched to purchase properties they couldn’t afford, said Gloria Ledesma, broker in Soledad.”
“It crashed hard. ‘You can now get a house that originally sold for $610,000 for $275,000,’ Ledesma said. ‘Now people can really afford them.’”
“Prices have dropped 27% in Florida’s worst-performing town, Lehigh Acres, a rural area near Fort Myers. Two-year-old houses with three bedrooms, two baths, and granite counter tops now sell for $80,000. The same homes originally sold for well over $200,000, said Joe Kendall, an agent in Fort Myers. For an additional $25,000 you might be able to get a pool and a screened-in porch.”
“‘People are pulling money out of the stock market, and they’re buying foreclosed homes,’ Kendall said. ‘Where can you buy a house so cheap?’”
“The lagging economy and national housing numbers brought a sobering reality to attendees at the recent National Association of Realtors® annual convention, organized with a theme of ‘Destination: Success — Full Speed Ahead.’ Ted Jones, chief economist for Stewart Title, said he also is concerned that ‘pent-up sellers’ will re-enter the market once sales activity improves.”
“‘There are a lot of people who would put their home on the market if they felt they could sell it,’ Jones said. ‘We just don’t know exactly how many of them are out there. When they do plan to sell, it will add to our inventories. So, we may run into a false bottom before we find the real one.’”
“It’s the equivalent of being raised from your death bed only to get run over by a bus. What else to make of this week’s news that close to 60 percent of homeowners offered a bailout from their banks ended up defaulting on a payment within eight months?”
“It’s no wonder why. For about a third of borrowers who benefited from so-called loan modifications, the new house payment consumed more than 60 percent of their monthly income. Sixty percent.”
“John Gray was hoping for lots of action when his upscale home went under the hammer, but although the auctioneer asked for an opening bid that was less than half of its previous valuation, no one was interested. ‘There weren’t many buyers in any case,’ says Mr. Gray referring to auction held in Phoenix in late November.”
“Mr. Gray’s home is just one example of the bargains being offered at auctions in states such as Arizona, California and Florida since the sub-prime crisis caused the U.S. housing market to collapse, says Rhett Winchell president of California-based Kennedy Wilson Auction Group.”
“Canadian snowbirds seeking a home in the sun can get some great bargains at auctions with home prices as low as US$50 per square foot, says Mr. Winchell. ‘We’re talking brand new homes,’ says Mr. Winchell.”
“David Bangert and Linda Harris of Kailua listed their two high-end Hawaii properties on the market about five months ago with real estate agents, but amid a declining market and lackluster response, they recently decided to include a $100,000 reward for each property in hopes of locating a buyer soon. ‘It’s definitely worth it to speed up the process for us because we would like to have it over with,’ said the 62-year-old Harris, who wants to retire.”
“‘We’ve had some bites, (but) at this point in time in the real estate world, it’s not whether people want it,’ Harris said, ‘it’s whether they can finance it.’”
“Foreclosure activity Utah continued to pick up speed in November even as aggressive loan-modification programs and holiday moratoriums by some lenders slowed foreclosures in other parts of the country, according to RealtyTrac. ‘It’s not impossible to get over-extended again because these homeowners could be losing their jobs, taking a pay cut or suffered illness, making it difficult for them to make their payments,’ said Tom Cook, an attorney with Salt Lake-based Lundberg & Associates.”
“He said his law firm is closing on fewer foreclosures in Utah this month because many of his lender clients have moratoriums in place for the holidays. But he said he expects foreclosure activity to pick up again starting the week of Jan. 12-16 when most of the moratoriums are due to expire.”
“‘There’s not much someone who is four or five months behind on their mortgages can do in an extra 45 days. Most properties we foreclose on are owner-occupied. The moratorium allows people who’ll probably never be able to make ends meet stay in their home for another month,’ Cook said.”
“‘The party is still over.’ That’s how Ken Perry, CEO of Broker Knowledge Group, summarized the economy…at the annual housing forecast hosted by the Home Builders Association of Metropolitan Portland last week. ‘I mean, we had a great party, didn’t we?’ asked Perry. ‘America had a great housing value party, and we had some good alcohol.’”
“Oregon and Washington were at the party, said Perry, although they tended to stay at the back of the room, drinking responsibly and watching the rest of the guests. ‘Then California and Nevada show up,’ he said, to rising laughter. ‘And they’ve got these helmets on, with horns on them, and these tubes coming down into their mouths.’”
“‘I don’t really think we’re shocked about this,’ he said. ‘We were giving people 100 percent financing with no money down. Did we really think they were going to pay that back? I call it the race to idiocy,’ he said. ‘It’s a game of who can be dumber.’”
“Unfortunately, said Perry, human nature being what it is, we are certain to repeat our mistakes. ‘I guarantee you,’ he concluded with a wry twist, ‘we will be here again. We will be stupid again.’”
“With the nation’s top investment houses shuttered, sold or changing into staid commercial operations, doubts have emerged about whether the city that for generations has been known as the world’s financial capital can retain that title - or the daredevil swagger that has defined Wall Street for so long. ‘It’s going to be a long, slow process and take many years for us to really restore our leadership in the world,’ said Ron Chernow, who has written extensively on the history of Wall Street. ‘New York has been damaged, and some of it I think is permanent.’”
“Top executives at mortgage finance companies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac ignored warnings that they were taking on too many risky loans years before the housing market plunged, according to documents released Tuesday by a House committee.”
“Fannie and Freddie own or guarantee around half the $11.5 trillion in U.S. outstanding home loan debt. The two companies are the engines behind a complex process of buying, bundling and selling mortgages as investments. In recent years, they lowered their standards, matching a decline fueled by Wall Street banks that backed the now-defunct subprime lending industry.”
“Lawmakers, in questioning that lasted more than four hours, were clearly frustrated by what they called a lack of willingness among former Freddie Mac CEO Richard Syron and Fanny Mae CEO Daniel Mudd, plus former Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines and former Freddie Mac CEO Leland Brendsel, to share any of the blame for the companies’ fortunes.”
“‘All four of you seem to be in complete denial that Freddie and Fannie are in any way responsible for this,’ said Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif. ‘Your whole excuse for going to risky and unreasonable loans that are defaulting at an incredibly high rate is that everyone is doing it.’”
“Michael Cable began paying attention to the housing market here when he and his wife Michelle wanted to trade their south Charlotte condominium for a house in the nearby neighborhood of Park Crossing. ‘People would be like vultures waiting for a house to go on the market,’ said Cable. He quickly realized things had changed when he and his wife started looking earlier this year. Cable remembered, ‘There were more than 20 houses on the market.’”
“With so many choices, the Cables settled on a five bedroom, three story house. At first, though, it was above their budget. So, they waited. ‘Then the price dropped. We kept watching. It’s getting closer. Then the price dropped again. And then we were almost there,’ said Cable. ”
“On the market eight months by that point, the sellers were ripe for an offer. They’d already relocated to California, and the home sat vacant. ‘We bought for $90,000 less than it was put on the market for,’ he said.”
“‘It is definitely a buyers market,’ said Dot Munson, the President of Charlotte Regional Realtor Association. She recently saw another huge price reduction. A home first listed at $670,000, sold for $165,000 less.”
“This may have you asking how low is too low to make an offer. Several realtors we asked said there are no set guidelines. Just consider how much you want the house, what others have sold for and how long the home has been on the market. One agent told me, you don’t want to be insulting, but you never know what a seller will accept until you ask.”
Another great week! My thanks to those who support this blog. Please check back this weekend.
Thank you Ben!
“One agent told me, you don’t want to be insulting, but you never know what a seller will accept until you ask.”
What’s insulting are the asking prices, even in today’s market. Someone who is insulted by a lowball offer on their house hasn’t been watching the news.
Hi Guys:
The Bruce Norris presentation last night was very good! I will do a write up this weekend and post it in the first CA thread next week. (Sorry, just haven’t had time to write it up today.)
Bruce now has a radio program and you can listen to old podcasts at:
http://www.thenorrisgroup.com/archives.php
The 10/18 broadcast is an interview with Peter Schiff. For those interested in commercial the 12/6 broadcast looks at the future (and it’s not good if you already own it.)
Bruce only looks at California and really concentrates on Riverside county which is about 15 months ahead in the decline than coastal California. So if you are coastal or out of California his message may be too early (but is coming) or not relevant.
(Sorry if this is a double post - system crashed.)
Hi Guys:
The Bruce Norris presentation last night was very good! I will do a write up this weekend and post it in the first CA thread next week. (Sorry, just haven’t had time to write it up today.)
Bruce now has a radio program and you can listen to old podcasts at:
http://www.thenorrisgroup.com/archives.php
The 10/18 broadcast is an interview with Peter Schiff. For those interested in commercial the 12/6 broadcast looks at the future (and it’s not good if you already own it.)
Bruce only looks at California and really concentrates on Riverside county which is about 15 months ahead in the decline than coastal California. So if you are coastal or out of California his message may be too early (but is coming) or not relevant.
“What else to make of this week’s news that close to 60 percent of homeowners offered a bailout from their banks ended up defaulting on a payment within eight months? It’s no wonder why. For about a third of borrowers who benefited from so-called loan modifications, the new house payment consumed more than 60 percent of their monthly income. Sixty percent.”
The gov’t can swirl about loan modifications ’til the cows come home, but if a FB was greedy enough to buy at 6x, 7x, 8x+ annual income, it’s not a sustainable level of debt. Period.
So let the house go into foreclosure and let someone else buy it at an affordable price with responsible financing.
Sure you don’t want to just Burn it? Buy low. Sell high. Let the chips fall where they may? “Oh. There you are!” Heh, what Loans?
/Moo, Fat Girl.
h
Big V, that is one tiny comment. Anything more you’d care to share with us?
You don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s most definitely not h.
lol. perfect.
I think the car bailout is dumb. They are trying to prevent the job losses that naturally follow from globalization and outsourcing. They know it’s unsustainable, but they’re trying to fool people into thinking everything’s OK. It’s not. Our Congresscritters are really trying to keep their own jobs. Neither side can win without the midwestern vote. Gawd, I can’t wait to vote for new senators. My rep is cool, though.
Hmm. Not sure whether you were kidding or not. Everyone says “Congress s*cks, except my guy is cool,” which is why incumbents get re-elected repeatedly, and Congress continues to s*ck.
On another note, I wonder why no one has brought up the national security problem created by allowing the big three automakers to go out of business. If we end up having a major war–and some people believe it is only a matter of time before we find ourselves on the battlefield against China–it’ll be a disaster to have no domestic auto industry that can re-tool to make the trucks and tanks and other mechanized fighting machines for the war effort. I thought of this, and I’m mostly a pacifist!
I know, I know, nukes can suffice. But, it’d be nice to have a less extreme set of options.
IAT
Apologies if this is a double-post.
I don’t know why no one has raised the national security danger that will accompany the closure of domestic automakers. If we were to find ourselves in a major war or even a major non-war conflict with a real military power–and some analysts believe it is only a matter of time before we enter more intense conflict with China–then it will be crucial to have domestic automakers that can re-tool to supply tanks and other mechanized vehicles. Just the presence of domestic automakers might make war less likely (because by raising our capability it makes the war more costly for an enemy). If we have to pay Toyota, they can price gouge us at will. If we seize the Toyota plants, that’ll just make it that much harder to secure an alliance with Japan (though not impossible, for they’ll have their own concerns with China).
My only point, though is this–the automakers are a national security resource. For a White House that has made the national security case for everything from torture to shopping, it is odd that here that finally have a true national security reason for a domestic intervention, and they don’t make the case. And, frankly, I haven’t heard democrats making it either. Odd.
IAT
That GM can make tanks is important. They can let Chrysler slide.
Also, the domestic security argument has and should apply to food, though there vast excesses that can be trimmed there.
I agree. Just a couple years ago, orange growers in Florida and California were chopping down their orchards to build crap homes because “orange juice was cheaper to import from Brazil.” Nobody looked at the national security issues for that.
“That GM can make tanks is important.”
In the military I carried an M-16 that was made by General Motors. Funny thing, the serial number almost matched my friend’s area code and telephone number in Palo Alto, CA except for one digit; I sent him a Polaroid shot of the receiver.
It takes 5 years for GM to bring a vehicle from the drawing board to the show room. I doubt they can start building tanks in any less time.
Our battle tanks are made by General Dynamics, who purchased the business from Chrysler in 1979.
If we need more plants to make tanks after the “little 3″ go BK, we can always nationalize the Toyota plants. They would probably make better tanks anyway.
And go to war against Japan again?
IAT
It’s worse than that - we can’t “re-tool” because we lost most of the domestic machine tool industry decades ago. Without that, domestic auto plants won’t help much - unless you want to bolt machine guns onto Chevy Impalas.
Sound money honey economic analysis. Eat it.!
But globalization and outsourcing are not natural. They’re policy choices, made by elected officials that are answerable, ultimately, to us.
From 1789 to 1980, import tariffs in the United States averaged 35%. Currently, they average 2%. And we’ve seen the results.
40% of all “imports” into the US are intra-company imports. HP sets up a factory in China to make printers, and sells them to itself.
It’s not trade, it’s wage arbitrage.
High wages are essential to an economy… If nobody makes any money, they can’t buy anything. Wages = demand, and it is only from the demand side that an economy can be sustainably driven. If they come, you will build it.
–Shannon
Correct. It’s not the globalization that’s natural. It’s the job losses that become natural after globalization happens.
Excellent post tube_ee/Shannon.
Yep, good one, Shannon!
Of course, insulting the seller is a huuuuge no-no in this market. They might even shoot you.
When you go out house hunting these days be sure to wear a vest.
If you actually care about the sellers feelings, then you have no business buying anything and deserve an over-priced home! I just insulted a bunch of kids who have their deceased parents home up for sale as an estate sale. Is it my problem that they counted on so much money from their inheritance that the’ve lost touch with reality? Screw them!
As the Don would say, nothing personal, just business.
Heck being nice and polite with this. I say INSULT, INSULT, INSULT away. Show no mercy.
Just gently say, ‘It’s business, that’s all, just business’, as you smile and make the market value 40% low offer. Don’t fart or belch or make insulting remarks. hehehehehehe
“Rick Wallick moved into a new, three-bedroom $200,000 home in Maricopa, Ariz., in October 2005. Today, the home is worth $80,000. The disabled software engineer stopped making mortgage payments this month. His $70,000 down payment is now worthless. His dream house will be foreclosed on next year. ‘We’re so far underwater it’s not funny,’ says Wallick.”
Just a second! There’s a detail missing here! He’s choosing to walk away on this by not paying his mortgage.
He put 70K down. That’s $1944/month for the three years he’s been there. He’s since stopped paying the mortgage. Basically, all he “lost” was the fact that he was paying a couple thousand/month too much for rent for the past three years. Nasty, yes, but hardly worth noting in a newspaper.
And he could chose to stay in the house at the terms he agreed upon! There’s nothing stopping him. If he thought the house was a good deal at 200K, why not stay in it?
(BTW: He says he’s an “Engineer” but according to the Arizona state licensing board, he’s not; you can search on line. So if he’s illegally calling himself an Engineer, who know what other scams he’s involved in.)
Software Engineers are not licensed. “Software Engineer” and “Code Monkey” are interchangeable terms. I know because I am one. Don’t read so much into that.
Yep. There’s electrical and computer engineering. And software engineering. Very different kettles of fish.
Social engineers=guppy-mouthed.
There seeems to be a lot of GIGO “engineer type titles” floating around out there today.
Like the (garbage in-garbage out) sanitary engineers..aka garbagemen
I have found it harder to get hired when I call myself a “code monkey” so I like to call myself a “software engineer” as well.
Yeah, I don’t think engineers are licensed. It’s not like they’re doctors.
Inywayz, how is it important to note that he’s disabled? He can obviously still work, because he does. If the disability isn’t affecting his ability to earn $$, then it’s just another red herring, kind of like moms who are “separated” from their husbands (probably just long enough for the cash to flow in from all the sympathetic readers).
All he lost was his big dream of going all in and hitting the jackpot. He could have lost an eye, for crying out loud.
In most states you can’t have the name “Engineer” in your job title (or Engineering in the name of your firm) unless you’re licensed. Engineers are, in fact, licensed.
It’s a frequently violated law when it comes to “Software Engineers”. Most companies don’t change their policy until some wack-job licensed engineer with too much time on his hands (*cough*) makes a big stink.
My husband is a scientist, but his company calls him an engineer. An ex-boyfriend of mine is a civil engineer. He said your salary basically doubles if you get the certificate or license or whatever (after you’ve gotten your degree), but they still call you an engineer.
I don’t think so. My business cards at Bell Aerospace and Lockheed said “engineer” on them, and this was in California - a state which normally insists on professional credentialing. I was a EE with degrees in physics and applied math. Professional engineers are those in civil engineering to a large extent.
The states I’ve worked in (WA,TX) have rules that exempt registered companies that have licensed engineers on staff that the people with engineering degrees (only) presumably work under the supervision of.
=============
For example:
http://www.tbpe.state.tx.us/eng_req.htm
(f) Notwithstanding the other provisions of this chapter, a regular employee of a business entity who is engaged in engineering activities but is exempt from the licensing requirements of this chapter under Sections 1001.057 or 1001.058 is not prohibited from using the term “engineer” on a business card, cover letter, or other form of correspondence that is made available to the public if the person does not:
(1) offer to the public to perform engineering services; or
(2) use the title in any context outside the scope of the exemption in a manner that represents an ability or willingness to perform engineering services or make an engineering judgment requiring a licensed professional engineer.
================
I am not licensed, so my resume lists former job titles of “Principal Engineer” at at large company, but carefully claims I am a specialist rather than using the term “Engineer”.
I worked with a Math Ph.D. and an Oceanography Ph.D who were classified as engineers at big company Boeing in the 1980s. Another guy in the group was classified as Professional & Administrative even though he was the only one of the three with an engineering degree: because his school wasn’t on their accredited list somehow.
This is a murky area full of details, but it is best to understand the laws of your state.
Having said all that, apparently, in Texas you could get a special 180 day PE license somehow to offer engineering services for Hurricane Ike recovery. Gee, that’s the guy I want working on my house.
My title is engineer, employed by an engineering firm which is also a professional corporation (that little PC thingie after the company name) but I’m not a PE nor do I have eng. degree.
Hm, where do I get one of those gigs? I have a phys. degree and did one year in engineering school but never even took the FE exam.
Exeter is a government employee. That should explain it.
Your jealousy is showing again.
Here in New Brunswick, only registered members can use the words “Engineer”, “Professional Engineer” or “P. Eng.” IIRC, when I started my first engineering job back 28 plus years things were a little looser, and Engineer was part of my job title, even though I didn’t have registered status at that time. My work was reviewed and signed off by P. Eng.’s. I’m an EE. I don’t know the percentages of Engineers that are P. Eng.’s
“Software engineer” is not an acceptable job title here if you are not an engineer.
I’m a registered PE (Professional Engineer) in six states, and a registered SE (Structural Engineer) in two states. Every state’s laws are different with respect to calling yourself an engineer. Of the states I’m licensed in, Oklahoma is the most stringent about going after those who call themselves engineers in the state without licensure; Massachusetts really doesn’t care. Some states license Structural Engineers seperately from Professional Engineers, most states do not (and in the two states in which I am a SE, one of them revoked my PE license upon granting me the SE license as they rightly decided I’m only qualified to practice Structural Engineering, not Civil Engineering).
The licensure process is fairly stringent. For the most part a four-year degree in engineering is required, plus four years of experience under the guidance of a PE, a number of letters of recommendation from other PEs, and completion of 16 hours of examinations. SE licensing requires additional testing in a few states, including the two states in which I am a SE.
There is currently a national movement to both require a Master’s Degree for licensure and to provide for seperate and uniform laws for licensure of structural engineers.
So yes, engineers in all states, and pretty much any developed country, are required to be licensed.
Engineers aren’t licensed, unless you’re talking about a civil engineer.
Not true, Silverback. Mechanical engineers (in WA) are licensed and have to go through the whole process, which is pretty stringent. There are also very real legal consequences in having a PE, including professional responsibility for load calculations, etc. This is not a deal where you can just call yourself anything you want to. The PE test in fact has a section on the legal consequences of being licensed.
All he lost was his big dream of going all in and hitting the jackpot.
Well, perhaps, that’s all he had.
No particularly marketable skills + RE bubble = hopes and dream of millions of Americans.
But he DOES have marketable skills. He’s an engineer. That’s just as marketable as anything else, no? Better than sales or whatever.
Excellent point.
He’s so skillful he paid 200k for that house.
I’m not sure I’d have paid 80k for it even during the boom. Pity they didn’t mention the square footage.
Good point.
Just because you have an engineering degree, it doesn’t necessarily follow that you know what the hell you’re doing.
Oh –
And it also doesn’t mean that you work very hard. I’ve always wondered how 2-3 dozen regular posters here have enough time on their hands to post numerous times a day. Now I know. Apparently, engineering is a field that is very ripe for offshoring because lots of people are getting paid big money to voice their opinions on blogs. It’s either that, or there is very little domestic push for innovation these days.
Get to work, you engineers out there. Go invent or design something innovative. What happened to nuclear fission/fusion anyway? Who says it has to take another 100 years to solve that riddle? Get it done.
It is my opinion that the internet/computer field has largely become little more than a hotbed of tweaks and whistles. The heyday of computer innovation (especially consumer-level stuff) is largely over. There’s not much left to be invented that John Q public really needs or wants.
The industry term for the license is PE or professional engineer. Licensure is at the state level like most other trades.
If you work as an engineer in the building trades (civil, structural, electrical power, heavy manufacturing) a lot of degreed engineers end up getting the license. In other trades, such as biotech, semiconductors, software, etc. very few carry the license, because it’s not required.
It has to do more with liability that anything else, although one must also put in their time and pass a difficult set of exams. A PE is licensed to sign off or “wet stamp” construction drawings, meaning that everything is A-OK and safe. This is mostly an issue where engineering fubars can result in major safety hazards. The reason that engineers tend not to get the license if not needed is that the liability insurace (required for licensure) is extremely expensive.
Reuven,
There’s a difference between being a software engineer and a Registered Professional Engineer (registered with the state and having passed the Professional Engineer exam). Cut the guy a break.
I think the point is because I didn’t go to school for 8 years, pay exorbitant amounts of $$ and work my a@@ off daily I should not get to call myself Doctor should I?
and someone without an engineering degree who hasn’t done the work, gone to school and followed through to get their license shouldn’t have to put up with some janitor calling himself “sanitation engineer” or a coder calling himself “software engineer”.
that made no sense.
someone *with* an engineering degree who *has* done the work, yada yada.
sorry, misfire.
I agree Mina. I am very uncomfortable with my title, voiced my objection to my VP and dumped by biz cards indicating said title but I’m still referred to as the engineer as my role traditionally has been filled with a P.E with my firm. They are still using master specs from the 1950’s by the way. Other large civvy firms using non-engineers in the field is quite common and don’t impose the title on them.
Software Engineer is just a job title. It indicates no skills, certifications or other attributes. While I generally refer to myself as a ‘programmer’, if I want to look for a job, I search for Software Engineer or Embedded Engineer. Those are the titles I’ve held since I started working (my degree is Computer Science, which is more mathematics, although I would refer to myself as a Mathetician, either) Some were semiconductor jobs where my coworkers generally held degrees in Electrical or Computer Engineering, some were web jockeys with no degrees and nothing resembling engineering, but they still titled the position Software Engineer. So, in essence, Software Engineer really tells you nothing about a person. They could be keying in data, or they could be working on algorithms for heart-monitors.
Of course, there’s also the title Software Architect, which generally implies a higher level employee, but there’s not test for that either. I’ll let you know when I see a Software Doctor, I’m sure it’s around the corner.
Who’s ego decided this was a great idea, I dunno, but that’s how it is these days. I guess it’s a marketing thing.
You and others here are completely clueless about the title “software engineer.”
On a related note, I see others here are “license fetishists” — living by the credentials - finding security in the official credential — validation in a “credential.” I find women, in particular, and folks from the northeast in general, get credential happy. Like it’s some assurance of self or insurance against risk and the unknown.
And what I say is true.
It’s also true that credentials are needed (and helpful) in many cases. But it’s become a god (or god substitute? i.e., yourself?) and has grown way beyond useful areas.
In the software world no one gives a sh*t what school you went to, which degrees you have, or any of your “credentials.” All that matters is if you can code. IOW, performance — coding, architecture, interfacing, and on it goes - but it’s all about, and only about PERFORMANCE. And a credential doesn’t mean you are good at what you do - it means you passed an education curriculum (and in some cases, a praticum) - and THAT’s ALL it means. It is no indication of performance. (Do you know lousy lawyers? Doctors? Therapists? How many successful entreprenuers hold MBA’s? How well have all the post-grad degree people fared on Wall Street?)
In the software world no one stops to think about misuse of the world “engineer.” Or that a formal licensing structure should be put in place –The very idea is ludicrous. And if those who take offense at their “unathorized” uasge of “engineer” told them that they did, they would think you are from another world - a world of artifice - that is caught up in itself. (Which it often is.)
A solid software firm sits you down and runs you through the paces. Can you do it? Can you do it well? That’s all that matters.
And that’s all that should.
I have a feeling you haven’t ever actually had sex with a woman.
Pearsey, what’s your motive for insulting this guy?
…and you have?
For God’s sake, the man is a disabled software engineer.
He was with MicroSoft, working on Vista…….
I have a question. I found Below in 90274 zip. Does market value shown mean that is what listing price should be if sold and Bank or someone is taking a hit for 2.3 million?
Property sold in spring of 2007 for 4.5 million.
Market Value
$2,040,043
Default Amount
$2,380,000
Property Address
3 Packsaddle Rd W
Rolling Hills, CA, 90274
And zip 90274 is between Long Beach and LAX along coast that large mountain blocking sun from anything east of it at sunset.
Where did you get this listing?
http://tinyurl.com/5nvurr
I did say it was listed.
I meant to say I did NOT say it was list.
Not being word I left out.
Where did you get the market value?
http://tinyurl.com/5nvurr
http://www.realtytrac.com/PropertyDetails/PropertyDetails.aspx?a=b&propID=23122362&Page=DetailNOD&CountyID=CALA&DataSel=NOD&accnt=148521
for whatever reason my tinyurl’s did not post.
Yes, I think they’re trying to say that the house should sell for the market value. Who knows if they’re right, though. It’s very hard to pinpoint right now because it’s changing so quickly and there are so few comps.
So the bank would be losing $380,000.
I’m assuming that the “default amount” is the entire loan, which in turn assumes a neg-am loan, which most of them are.
I like part 4 of NAR’s bailout plan:
“halting federal bailout funds to banks with no strings attached, and permanently banning banks from entering into real estate brokerage or development.”
Oh yes, banning banks from competing in the real estate brokerage market is surely in everyone’s best interest. Imagine the harm, why the 6% commission might go down!
Banks have been trying to break into the RE brokerage biz for decades.
Ken Perry also had this gem…
“We’re not going to ‘V’ back up.” In 2009, he said, “We’re going to hit the bottom, ‘U’ out and then we’re going to creep back up.”
I think he needs to look at the alphabet again. That other side of the U goes straight up. He is still a little hung-over from the party.
maybe it will look like this
\____
\____
\
\____/\/\/\
\
I believe the letter he is looking for is L.
IAT
Quit insulting V. I saw her picture on Ben’s road trip and she looked like a decent gal.
Two-year-old houses with three bedrooms, two baths, and granite counter tops now sell for $80,000.
Okay, this is at most $40/ sq ft. Would you buy this house? (although, I suspect these “houses” are condos.)
I checked and these are houses and what a perfect starter home it is, if only my son lived in Lehigh Acres Florida.
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?pg=68&srcnt=675&sid=04e7e9eb6c1c4ed49f56d84c33d1e0f8&fhcnt=8&loc=Lehigh+Acres+florida&usrloc=Lehigh+Acres+florida&typ=3&pfbm=2&ml=8&fhpg=2&lid=1103247470&lsn=672#Detail
What happened to byeflorida? here is his chance to buy a 50,000 house which apparently was his dream. He doesn’t have to move to ” Oil City” after all.
Yeah, what did happen to byefla? Maybe he found a place in Oil City (after moving out of Mum & Dad’s basement) and hocked himself to the eyeballs @ $50,000.
The place is now worth $20,000, and the bank is knocking on the door…..
I checked and these are homes not condos, in fact they are perfect “starter homes”.
If only my son lived in Lehigh Acres he would be able to move out of the house.
What happened to “ByeFlorida”? He has his chance now to purchase at his wishing price of 50,000.
Here it is:
http://www.realtor.com/search/listingdetail.aspx?pg=68&srcnt=675&sid=04e7e9eb6c1c4ed49f56d84c33d1e0f8&fhcnt=8&loc=Lehigh+Acres+florida&usrloc=Lehigh+Acres+florida&typ=3&pfbm=2&ml=8&fhpg=2&lid=1103247470&lsn=672#Detail
A 3br/2ba 1400 square foot house listed for 51K? Ok, I give up - what’s wrong with it?
There probably isn’t anything wrong with it. The problem is that where are you going to find a job?
There is nothing around you to support wages and the area is well..boring!
Right. Also you can find prices in the $60,000 range in Florence, about 45 miles from downtown Phoenix. T. Boone Pickens was in Phoenix promoting oil independence. After we pull out of Iraq, the rogue states will use oil as a bargaining chip and the price should go up above $150 per barrel. Makes 90 mile round trips foolish. So of course those prices have to be cheap!
After we pull out of Iraq, the rogue states will use oil as a bargaining chip and the price should go up above $150 per barrel.
Right, because occupying Iraq for the last five years has kept oil dirt cheap that entire time.
Thanks for finding that for me. I didn’t have time to look.
It does look quite attractive. It’s even got a 1/4 acres. Plant some orange trees and a year round garden, and hope the next hurricane doesn’t level the place.
A fixed PITI is probably no more than $300 a month. You can’t rent for that.
Speaking as an insurance person, I wouldn’t touch anything with the word ’stucco’ anywhere near it. If done poorly (and that has been a problem in Georgia and Florida), it wicks moisture into the house, causing all kinds of mold problems.
It’s sort of the same reason I wouldn’t buy a used car in Galveston following the flooding from Ike.
Jerry Johnson’s message to the HBA gathering carried a number of references to death. One of those involved the condominium, which has been severely over-built in the Portland market.
“The condo’s got a problem,” said Johnson. It’s the canary in the coal mine of the housing market, and the canary’s dead.”
It was also Johnson who conceded: “Of course, economists are much better at autopsies than forecasts.”
———————————————————————–
I thought all economists had crystal balls. Unfortunately the autopsy won’t go well either cause the economists will slice and dice the cadaver which is the U.S. economy into a thousand pieces. No one will be able figure out what caused the death.
Condos are particularly vulnerable. They generally have all of the bad parts of home ownership and none of the good parts. The only upside to a condo is that someone else will take care of overpaying for maintenance for you.
During the late part of an up cycle, they get bid up by people who are looking for a stepping stone to a real house, or who are tired of renting but cannot afford a house.
During a down cycle, when real houses start becoming available, very few people will settle for the downsides without the upsides. But since prices are sticky down and owners want to get their “profits” out, condos do not get priced down until the bottom falls out. Once that happens, condo prices fall through the floor. Buyers see this and wait for prices on real houses to fall further, rather then buying condos.
By the bottom of the cycle, condos are usually in disrepair because the buildings are half empty and there is no money for maintenance.
Condos are probably the worst possible investment in the world of real estate. But if a buyer really wants the condo life, bargains can be had at the bottom of the cycle. In 1993-94, I saw quite a few nicer condos go for pretty realistic prices in my area. That’s still a long way away at this point, because Santa Monica has not seen the foreclosure wave wash over yet.
In 2003-04, I had a couple of tenants move out and buy condos. I wonder if I’ll be hearing from them in 2009.
Yes you are right about Condo’s and Townhomes they spike up at the very end of a housing boom cycle. And they crash hard on the way down.
Glad I sold mine. Only took 10 years to break even after the 1990’s bust in CA and other 5 to almost triple in price.
I’ll never ever buy another Townhome.
http://www.superiorsilverco.com/data/inspect.asp?Item=412&Filter=Information&Name=Hitler%27s+Home+Equity+Gets+Hosed
Hitler’s home equity gets hosed.
Glad to see you Sammy. My wife and I LOVED that clip!
Sometimes I still think about the squirrel from my old house in San Jose. He left us for the newbies down the street who were feeding him better nuts. We tried to figure out what he liked, but they won him over before we could figure it out.
These people had no curtains in their living room. The room was decorated like a dollhouse with all white furniture, mood lighting, professionally textured paint job, really cheesy art on the wall, etc. They would hang out in their tiny kitchen watching TV all evening so as not to sully the view into their living room from the street. I never saw them out on the town, presumably because they spent all their money on the mortgage instead of spending it on Thai food and local bands. I’ll bet those people are gone now, or have at least stopped feeding him the fru-fru squirrel treats.
I wonder whether or not that traitor of a squirrel might be back at the old house looking for us to get some of those good nuts again and feeling mad because our old landlord now lives there, and he’s just the type of stingy, mean person to deny a squirrel his nuts. As a matter of fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the LL were gone by now too. Poor little rodent.
My wife is continuing her campaign of “scorched earth” vs. the squirrel clan in our yard. She had a live and let live policy with them until they started bombing her with half eaten pecans. Then, the gardening gloves came off.
She used her cell phone and whacked their favorite tree (because it overhung both neighbors and not our yard) and also the pecan limb that they built a nest on above our swing so they could defacate and drop pecan shells onto the swing cover. The pecan will be the next to go and we’ll be no longer attractive to the rodents. (Those are evil messy trees anyway, so I shall not grieve.)
Maybe they ate the squirrel ? being house poor and all ?
“Shelley McComb, who manages a doggie day care center, says, ‘I wish we’d rented.’”
Music to my ears. I’ve had several years to get real sick and tired of snide remarks about being a renter when “everybody” knew that homeowning was the best investment.
Doggie daycare (along with human day care) will be biting the dust shortly. The Merry Maids aren’t so merry these days (not that they ever were, frankly).
Doggie daycare is soooooooooooooooooooo 2006.
2006 Doggie day care…
2008 Doggie run away into the woods and don’t come home again
“The lagging economy and national housing numbers brought a sobering reality to attendees at the recent National Association of Realtors® annual convention, organized with a theme of ‘Destination: Success — Full Speed Ahead.’ Ted Jones, chief economist for Stewart Title, said he also is concerned that ‘pent-up sellers’ will re-enter the market once sales activity improves.”
Ummm, Ben, you need to tell Cousin Ted that sales activity will improve with lower prices.
Unca Ted needn’t worry. Pent-up sellers are adjusting defaulting by the day. The only pent-up sellers will be repo banks, and they don’t call a Realtor(R).
a theme of ‘Destination: Success — Full Speed Ahead.
How cute. A Titanic theme!
Do they publish their YoY attendence numbers?
Two things I noticed about the article on Michael Cable.
1. It doesn’t say what $90,000 less is.
2. Doesn’t say if they sold the condo.
Well here’s a fraudster who pled guilty….
http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsupdates/story/602544.html
“Christopher A. Upchurch, 33, pleaded guilty Thursday in U.S. District Court in Boise after illegally helping obtain 49 construction loans worth $20 million from Zions First National Bank.
Four others have already pleaded guilty in the case, including a former Zions loan officer who received kickbacks from Upchurch….
Prosecutors say shady real-estate operators like Upchurch now have added incentive to plead guilty: Those who cashed in illegally on the now-collapsed housing bubble make unsympathetic defendants.”
Two more banks were shut down.
Fed regulators shut 2 banks in Georgia, Texas
Regulators on Friday closed Haven Trust Bank in Georgia and Sanderson State Bank in Texas, bringing to 25 the number of U.S. bank failures this year.
The housing market is so bad that some banks and builders that had been business partners are now adversaries, and experts are using the dreaded ‘D’ word. Eugene James, head of the Atlanta division of the research company Metrostudy, said the 22 metro counties it covers ‘are in a housing depression right now.’”
This comment is somewhat misleading.
1)Houses that are located in good employment areas, that are priced between $175-$300K are selling. Now if the same price home is located in a rural area forget it. Which was a big problem with many of these builders. The lifeline of Atlanta is how close are you to the highway. The grids here don’t allow for using backroads easily to get around. So being within a reasonable distance to the highway is extremely important. Too many builders built in the middle of nowhere.
2)For the houses listed in $500K and above. Same problem. Built these golf course gated communities next to swamps and they want top dollar. Those are not selling and are losing value fast. A house listed at $1.2 during boom, brand new, taken over by the bank, now $700K. Still no buyer.
“Elliot Eisenberg, economist with the National Association of Home Builders, said Atlanta should continue to build even though demand isn’t there. ‘Yeah, we are robbing Peter to pay Paul,’ he said. ‘But that’s OK because Paul is dead.’”
I see debt people.
There were clues about Paul being dead on the cover of the “Abbey Road” album…..
Why pay a dead guy?
IAT
Owwooo debt zombies of Atlanta
What I find ironic are the purse stings attached to the big 3, but wall street gets the blank check - and nothing changes.
Bought a bushmaster m4 a3 carbine .223 rifle today. Had hell finding one. I have just been laid off from my job. Will have to put my house on the market in the next few days because I can’t pay for it. Just waiting for the smartass that insults me with their low ball offer on my house.
God I love this country…….only in America can the poor people own assault weapons with 30rd clips.
Typical thought from a worker laid off from their job right before christmas. This is America folks…. armed to the teeth and mad as hell
You just lost your job and now you can’t afford your house?
You should have spent the money on your emergency fund or some staging instead, psycho.