December 20, 2008

The Rules Have Changed Dramatically

A report from the Arizona Republic. “The Valley housing market broke records in September for the sharpest year-over-year drop in same-home sale prices and most consecutive months of decline, according to Arizona State University. The current decline became the longest on record in August, surpassing the previous record of 17 months set in 1990 and 1991. ‘The early 1990s saw a recession and fallout from the excesses of the 1980s in the real estate market,’ ASU real estate Professor Karl Guntermann said in a press release. ‘The current downturn has now reached 19 months, and the magnitude of the declines far exceeds those from the earlier period in all regions and cities of the Valley.’”

The Arizona Daily Star. “Nearly a third of all resale home closings in November were foreclosures, driving down Pima County’s median home prices, local housing analyst John Strobeck said in his monthly report. Foreclosures are ‘just so ridiculously priced underneath everything else, that’s just what people are going for,’ he said.”

“With foreclosures going for so much less, Strobeck said new-home builders are being forced to adjust their prices to stay competitive. ‘It’s a great time to buy a house,’ Strobeck said. ‘Look at the prices. We are poised to drop the median price of a new construction home below $200,000.’”

The Yuma Sun from Arizona. “Yuma County’s jobless rate for November reached a seasonally adjusted rate of 19.8 percent, according to the report. That compares to 19.2 percent in October and 13.4 percent in November of 2007. Between November 2007 and this November, Yuma County has lost 2,900 jobs. The year’s biggest losses occurred in manufacturing, construction and financial services - all related to the downturn in the real estate market.”

“‘Title companies have had layoffs,’ said Julie Engel, CEO of Greater Yuma Economic Development Corp. ‘I’ve been told some banks are reducing staff by as much as 50 percent. It’s quite devastating.’”

“Statewide, the Department of Commerce’s newest figures show Arizona shed 83,100 jobs between November 2007 and November 2008. That translates to a 3.1 percent decline. The last time there was that big a one-year drop was in June of 1975.”

Sunbelt Digital Media on Nevada. “The Reno-Sparks Association of Realtors reported Wednesday that home sales climbed more than a quarter but median prices dropped by nearly a quarter in November. In Reno, the condo-townhome price was $82,500, down 45 percent from a year earlier; in Sparks, it was $98,500, down 42 percent compared with November, 2007.”

“‘Although existing home sales are up, the existing home sales market has a deep hole to climb out of,’ said Wayne Capurro, president of the reporting real estate group.”

The Review Journal from Nevada. “Construction has been suspended on the ManhattanWest mixed-use condo development in southwestern Las Vegas, the developer said Tuesday. Funding for the $350 million project is no longer available and it’s uncertain when new financing will be secured, Gemstone Development CEO Alex Edelstein said.”

“ManhattanWest plans call for 700 condo units in 12 buildings, including a nine-story tower that has already been topped off. ‘It started out as just a real estate problem and now it’s a global problem. Real estate is hurt because the larger economy is busted,’ he said. ‘If you’d told me a year ago Las Vegas would have severe layoffs in the casinos and a severe drop in tourism and negative population growth, I would have laughed.’”

“The unemployment rate hit 8 percent in November, the highest level since February 1984, the Nevada Department of Employment, Training and Rehabilitation reported Friday. Doug Geinzer of Recruiting Nevada employment service said people are still seeking work in Las Vegas. In the third quarter, 70 percent of job seekers visiting his Web site were from Nevada, California, Texas and Arizona.”

“‘Job creation obviously is the slowest it’s been in a long time,’ Geinzer said. ‘We’re seeing folks in the time-share industry going on hiring freezes. You know it’s slow. It’s kind of crazy right now.’”

“Housing obviously played a key part in the most serious economic setback of the post-World War II era, economist David Seiders of the National Association of Home Builders said. It started in December 2007 and helped put the entire economy in the red zone, he said. The Federal Reserve is targeting its rate down to zero, which is ‘kind of scary in some ways,’ Seiders said.”

“‘Some people think this can bring the housing market back and I think it’s highly unlikely the Fed can do that,’ he said. ‘That leaves it with Congress and the new administration.’”

“You know the financial outlook is glum when the mortgage brokers who arrange loans have quit paying their own debts. That’s the case for one Las Vegas broker, an investor who’s given up making good on her rental property’s mortgage after a year of fruitless attempts to renegotiate the loan with her bank.”

“The local mortgage broker said she owes more than $100,000 beyond her home’s worth. She’s had trouble keeping renters who could cover the $2,400 monthly payment. When she first called her bank in February to discuss new loan terms, the bank told her she had too many assets to qualify for renegotiation. She called back in October and learned that she was by then too underwater for a modification. She’s paid $7,500 out of pocket in 2008 to stay current in her mortgage, but with her brokerage business slow, she can no longer afford the financial hit. She’s stopped paying the loan altogether.”

“‘In this economy, I can’t keep paying for an empty house that is now more than $100,000 upside down,’ she said.”

“Diane Shackle found it gut-wrenching to walk away from a mortgage she took out in times that were better for both her and the U.S. economy. But the reality was undeniable: While she was keeping up with the monthly payments, she said she could no longer afford to buy food for herself or even kitty litter for her two cats.”

“So the 44-year-old cocktail waitress walked away from her two-bedroom condo in Southern California last July, turning her back on a debt of nearly $200,000. ‘It ripped me up to do it but I was tired of worrying and I had no food in the house,’ said Shackle. ‘I decided, you know what, I’m not living like this.’”

The Las Vegas Business Press from Nevada. “Foreclosures now account for 60 percent to 70 percent of monthly home sales in Las Vegas and their median price is $166,000, which is below replacement cost in most cases, housing analyst Larry Murphy of Las Vegas-based SalesTraq said.”

“We won’t know we’ve reached bottom until we’re past it and prices start to rise, broker Tim Kelly Kiernan said. With more than 200 notices of defaults going out every day, foreclosures will continue to plague the market. Kiernan suggests there are some 10,000 real estate-owned, or bank-owned, properties waiting to hit the market in Las Vegas. He’s advising clients not to sell unless they absolutely must and they’re willing to bring money to the table upon closing.”

“Buyers have to make strong offers on REOs and short sales. They won’t be able to ‘low-ball’ the banks, Kiernan said.”

“‘In general, this is a unique real estate market here in Las Vegas, to say the least,’ the REO specialist said. ‘The rules have changed dramatically, and it depends on which side of the fence you’re on. We may never see this type of market again. In most areas, prices are back to 2002 and 2003.’”

The Associated Press. “Roland Walker, the owner of southern Utah’s largest incomplete subdivision, is being forced to sell the trees to keep his project afloat. Nearly four square miles in the redrock desert, Elim Valley has been laid out with roads, utilities, sidewalks and street lights. Walker has approval for ‘every square inch’ of a dense New Urbanism-style community of as many as 10,423 housing units.”

“But there isn’t a single house to be found at Elim Valley, nor a sign any are being built.”

“Walker also owes at least $10 million to a group of short-term real-estate investors who aren’t interested in a tree swap. The investors are suing to recover money spent on land and water rights. Walker’s lawyers have temporarily blocked a foreclosure in state court. ‘We just want the money back,’ said Greg Walker, director of risk management for Cypress Capital XI LLC of South Jordan, Utah, who is not related to the developer.”

“‘It’s simply: We loan some money, take collateral. They pay it back, we return the collateral. We know the economy sucks. But we have a fiduciary responsibility to our investors,’ he said.”

The Wall Street Journal. “At the height of the property bubble, California’s giant pension fund, Calpers, made a fateful decision: It aggressively poured money into real estate. As a result, today it’s one of the biggest owners of undeveloped residential land in America.”

“In recent years Calpers invested in: Three large parcels near Phoenix, one of the nation’s hardest-hit property markets. Last month, Calpers effectively walked away from one of the three, after having invested $140 million. A massive block of land with room for about 8,000 units near the small town of Mountain House, Calif., the nation’s most “underwater” housing market by one measure. (Nearly 90 percent of homeowners there owe more on their mortgages than their homes are worth, according to mortgage-research firm FirstAmerican Corelogic.)”

“Until last year, the Calpers strategy worked. Through its housing partners, the fund pursued big, complex deals with large homebuilders. Returns on housing investments were an impressive 16 percent average annually from 2004 through 2006.”

“As the U.S. property market crested, the deals got bigger. The biggest was LandSource, the $2.5 billion venture now in bankruptcy-court protection. In LandSource, Calpers teamed up with Lennar Corp., the giant Miami-based homebuilder. Lennar was known in the industry for its sophisticated use of land deals. The LandSource deal took shape in 2006, when Victor MacFarlane, one of Calpers’ long-time real-estate investors, asked Lennar if it would be interested in selling a big stake in its 15,000-acre Newhall Ranch, north of Los Angeles.”

“It turned out to be a bad moment to buy land. In the summer of 2007, just a few months after LandSource closed, the U.S. housing market entered its historic free-fall. LandSource filed for bankruptcy protection earlier this year.”

“Calpers stresses that it’s a long-term investor and can earn back the declines in the future, just as it erased declines suffered in the dot-com bust a few years ago. ‘No one in the marketplace knew how swiftly the housing market would fall — not the Federal Reserve, not the Treasury,’ said Ted Eliopoulos, head of Calpers’s real-estate portfolio.”

The Salt Lake Tribune from Utah. “Delinquencies in car dealer-arranged automobile loans reached a historic high of 3.13 percent during the fourth quarter of 2007, according to the American Bankers Association. That was only a bit less than the 4.3 percent of home loans that were delinquent in Utah in the same period. ‘Look at what is happening,’ said Carol Kaplan, spokeswoman for the bankers’ association. ‘We’re seeing rising unemployment. You have people losing their homes and businesses. It is no wonder that repossessions are up.’”

“Repo man Rich Whittaker in Salt Lake City has been in the business for 25 years.Whittaker said one thing is different in this recession from downturns of the past. These days he is repossessing many more luxury and high-end automobiles, such as Porches and Mercedes Benzes.”

“He finds it interesting and telling about the depth and breadth of this economic downturn that people who at one time must have had pretty good credit now find themselves unable to keep up the payments on those expensive cars.”

“‘What is really taking up our time, right now, is that we’ve been repossessing a lot construction equipment and big motor homes — stuff that takes a long time [and a lot of effort] to haul away,’ Whittaker said.”

“Some of the larger-scale items that West Coast has repossessed have included a $300,000 granite saw used to cut countertops and an excavator used at one time to dig basements for homebuilders, who also have fallen on tough times.”

“‘What we’re hearing is that a lot more of the repossessed vehicles we are seeing were voluntarily surrendered,’ said Rob Brasher of Brasher’s Salt Lake Auto Auction. ‘The owners just called up their lenders and told them to come and get their cars because they could no longer afford the payments.’”




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95 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-12-20 12:11:16

‘Statewide, the Department of Commerce’s newest figures show Arizona shed 83,100 jobs between November 2007 and November 2008. That translates to a 3.1 percent decline. The last time there was that big a one-year drop was in June of 1975.’

This reminds me of an angry email I got from a Phoenix area homebuilder in 2005. He went on and on (I think he was drunk when he typed it) about how people like me were just jealous and might spoil the party. Well, mister big-shot, how’s the party now? This blow up was baked in the cake by fools like him and Calpers, and nothing could stop it.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 12:26:48

Ben,

I had a memorable 2005 conversation with a PhX developer who was visiting family in SD. The dude was completely clueless that the onset of a massive bust was taking shape right under his nose. This was one of my first San Diego experiences talking to a true believer in the Church of Real Estate Always Goes Up.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-12-20 15:02:56

“…a true believer” :-)

Yes, beware the “TRUE BELIEVER!” And speaking in Amish mimic:
“Be vair the Eengglissssh!” ;-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_True_Believer

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:01:22

Thanks so much for that reference, Hwy50. Here is a related one for you, in case you missed it:

Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith

Olygal and Dude also should check this one out (though it may be verboten for Dude to do so…).

Dude — One of the many benefits of not being a Mormon is that you get to chose what to read without the need to worry about General Authority censorship.

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Comment by Eggman
2008-12-20 22:42:19

“The Morman Murders” is also a great read.

 
 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2008-12-20 13:14:42

That is so schweet Ben!

 
Comment by cactus
2008-12-20 19:18:55

The California Public Employees’ Retirement System that calpers?
did they invest in AZ RE ? If so thats pretty funny

 
 
Comment by sf jack
2008-12-20 12:12:29

“Calpers stresses that it’s a long-term investor and can earn back the declines in the future, just as it erased declines suffered in the dot-com bust a few years ago. ‘No one in the marketplace knew how swiftly the housing market would fall — not the Federal Reserve, not the Treasury,’ said Ted Eliopoulos, head of Calpers’s real-estate portfolio.”

*****

Jeez.

Who could have known?

Were any of them paying any attention to anything related to real estate prior to 2007?

Because it was all just a bit ridiculous… by any measure.

What a bunch of clowns.

Comment by Ben Jones
2008-12-20 12:17:12

This stuff is mind-boggling:

‘ManhattanWest plans call for 700 condo units in 12 buildings…’If you’d told me a year ago Las Vegas would have severe layoffs in the casinos and a severe drop in tourism and negative population growth, I would have laughed.’

If anyone wonders why we are in this mess, here it is. People were lending hundreds of millions to a guy who had no clue Vegas was in trouble, IN LATE 2007!

Comment by Frank Hague
2008-12-20 12:51:53

I just did a cursory check on Hotels.com for hotel rates in Las Vegas. It is amazing how cheap rooms have become, they must really be desperate to get people out there. $60 a night at the Excalibur, $45 at the Tropicana. Granted, these aren’t the high end establishments, but for weekend rates that is probably 50% off of what they charged in the past, maybe more.

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-12-20 15:05:48

Give meeeeeee the $2.99 “all you eat”… biscuits & gravy & eggs & bacon & .09 coffee…babeeeeeeeeeeeeee I’m there already! :-)

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Comment by jimbo
2008-12-20 15:56:26

I intended to report on observations I made during night on the town in Atlantic City, NJ back on Dec. 5th. Went to Borgata to see Ray Davies. There were many empty spots in the casino’s surface parking lot (parked there because I didn’t think I’d have to pay state mandated fee of at least three dollars to park; doh– hit me up for a fin on the way out). I was very surprised to see roughly 300 empty seats for the show in a theater that sat about 2,000. He sang just about all the hits. Baby boomer heaven. I can’t say the rest of the casino was visibly suffering, though. The Borgata seems to be maintaining its hipster allure. I got out of there ’round midnite; the 30ish gang was out in force, just getting started, ready to rave with a DJ ’til dawn. There was not the noticeable lack of patrons I observed at The Donald’s Taj Mahal over Columbus Day weekend.

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Comment by Frank Hague
2008-12-20 12:47:59

As a resident of the great state of New Jersey I find it encouraging that there is at least one state pension fund that is more incompetently run than the one here.

 
Comment by Groundhogday
2008-12-20 23:35:49

There was a huge uproar on this blog when CALPERS announced their push into real estate in 2007–AFTER things started unraveling. I certainly wasn’t the only blogger ASTOUNDED that such a big organization with so much financial expertise could be so incredibly stupid. Stupid! Good thing I took all of my money out of CALPERS (okay, not much, didn’t work in CA for long).

Comment by scdave
2008-12-21 09:52:18

CALPERS announced their push into real estate ?

Seeking higher yields even at great risk…I have read somewhere that Calpers needs to earn a 8% return on its portfolio just to meet its pension payment obligations…

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 12:16:31

“‘Some people think this can bring the housing market back and I think it’s highly unlikely the Fed can do that,’ he said. ‘That leaves it with Congress and the new administration.’”

The Fed can’t prop up the housing market, so it is up to the Messiah and the Democratic Congress to get ‘er done.

BwaHaHaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHHHAAAAHHAHAHHAHAHHAA!!!

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 12:21:25

Let me put in a plug here for free market economic principles, which would suggest it is none of the government’s business to try to prop up the housing market, and further that the reason the market is so whacked out at the moment is a direct consequence of a long history of market-distorting government meddling, which had a primary objective of rewarding special interests in the FIRE sector. I expect the Democratic-run government to outdo themselves with futile housing market interventions, only to eventually claim, after the market has healed on its own schedule, that it was their policies which enabled healing to occur.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 12:45:17

Exhibit A:

Congress Will Set Conditions for $350 Billion in Rescue Funds
By Alison Vekshin

Dec. 20 (Bloomberg) — Congress will use the remaining $350 billion in a U.S. bank-rescue package to force the Bush administration and President-elect Barack Obama into providing foreclosure aid as the pace of people losing their homes soars.

Lawmakers will agree to release the funds in exchange for Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Obama agreeing to programs that cut interest rates and forgive a portion of a mortgage’s principal, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank said in a telephone interview yesterday.

Frank said legislation is being drafted that will set the conditions on spending the cash after Paulson used almost half the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program to boost bank capital. Paulson resisted calls to support foreclosure relief.

“The Democrats are finally getting it, that this administration is not going to do anything to help homeowners, and they are getting more proactive,” John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, said in a telephone interview. “Paulson has had the chance to do something like this all along, but has chosen not to. I think he’ll do it if a quid pro quo is held over him.”

Comment by wmbz
2008-12-20 15:50:48

LOL! Barney Fwank with a ‘prod’ hell of a way to view the banking queen…

“I just view this as Barney with a cattle prod, saying ‘put more emphasis on foreclosure relief,’” Gilbert Schwartz, a former Federal Reserve counsel and now a partner at law firm Schwartz & Ballen in Washington, said in an interview.

Frank said he’s ready to act on the legislation during the final month of the Bush administration, without waiting until Obama’s Jan. 20 inauguration.

“Why wait three weeks? Let’s do it,” Frank said. “We’re in a crisis now. How many people’s homes will be foreclosed?”

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:03:18

“Barney with a cattle prod”

That sounds pretty kinky.

 
 
Comment by Michael Emmel
2008-12-21 21:01:18

When the Government starts cramming down principal on loans housing is beyond dead can you say 50%-75% down ?

Much better to just monetize the bad loans and go on.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 12:23:40

How’dya like my random HAs, FPSS?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-20 16:46:45

+1

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-12-20 15:14:56

0% interest rate on new home purchases would be a stimulus. Hundreds of Billions more in stolen loot from taxpayers can be another stimulus - making short term gain and extremely long term pain.

Or the intelligent way is to just do nothing. No more bailouts. The next Administration should read the Constitution and show us where it says that the American public should be robbed to pay for the losses of individuals and businesses (banks, auto companies, etc).

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 16:35:26

Ron Paul only polled about 5% in the Republican primaries. That tells you what Americans think of the Constitution. The mass of sheeple value an illusury “security” proferred by Big Brother, far more than liberty when that means the freedom to fail.

 
 
Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-12-20 15:19:01

Mr. Bear,
It’s going to be very, very difficult to outdo the current sit-u-ation:

Obama’s $850 Billion stimulus plan …or …Cheney-Shrub’s 4.2 $Trillion dollar band-aid.

“BwaHaHaHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAHHHAAAAHHAHAHHAHAHHAA!!!”

The San Diego homeless (and… “other things”)… are about to go exponential to + side:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_growth

Figured I’d throw something in mathematical for you to enjoy!

“The graph illustrates how an exponential growth surpasses both linear and cubic growths” :-)

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-20 16:48:01

It dominates all polynomials. That’s the point.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:11:22

The Taylor expansion of e^x (the exponential function) is

e^x = 1 + x + x^2/2! + x^3/3! + x^4/4! + X^5/5! + …,

so no matter how high the degree of a polynomial, there are always higher degree exponential terms in e^x. Hence e^x eventually outruns every polynomial function, unless the power on e is negative (as it recently has been for home price movements).

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Comment by Bill in Tampa
2008-12-20 19:07:13

Prof Bear, those n! get very big very fast.
20! is a 19 digit number
e^20 is a 9 digit number (rounding off)

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 21:50:58

“Prof Bear, those n! get very big very fast.
20! is a 19 digit number
e^20 is a 9 digit number (rounding off)”

No worries, because the n! are fixed (constant) with respect to x. Once you specify a polynomial, the largest power of x with a non-zero coefficient is revealed, and I can pick a big enough x so that e^x can both offset the n! in the denominator of its terms of higher order than the degree of the polynomial, and can outgrow all terms in the polynomial in combination. The n!s in the denominators of terms in e^x simply imply it takes a bigger x to get the job done than if the denominators were, say, all equal to 1.

 
Comment by shizo
2008-12-20 22:05:05

Reminds me of oil in reverse.

 
Comment by Bill In Tampa
2008-12-21 00:44:11

??
10^x is always bigger than e^x for any positive x.
As is 3^x. Nothing magic about e.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:05:21

Hwy50 —

All of my oft-maligned extrapolations are exponential, and the ones which project housing price movements are exponentially decadent.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:24:11

P.S. Foreclosures went big time exponential earlier this year, until the foreclosure moratorium slowed them in their tracks. But I don’t expect this bandaid to prevent the blood from flowing out of the gunshot wound for much longer.

Comment by WhatOnceWas
2008-12-21 11:07:52

I think they were using this formula is the problem.

W= ∑’rE ^ ƒ*cK∑(D) ~NøW!

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Comment by Bill in Carolina
2008-12-20 12:35:28

$300,000 for a saw that cuts granite counter tops? I don’t think so. That’s probably the price of the monster saw that cuts the huge slabs of granite from the quarry.

Comment by Lane from s.c.
2008-12-20 14:18:29

Bill, its probably a very large CNC type cutter. My best friend has a large lazer cutter for metal and plastic and it cost $700,000. But it makes a ton of money.

Lane

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 12:37:43

“At the height of the property bubble, California’s giant pension fund, Calpers, made a fateful decision: It aggressively poured money into real estate. As a result, today it’s one of the biggest owners of undeveloped residential land in America.”

I have a message for Calpers pension fund managers: REAL ESTATE DOES NOT ALWAYS GO UP.

Comment by WhatOnceWas
2008-12-21 11:00:11

” As a result, today it’s one of the biggest owners of undeveloped residential land in America.”

Prof., and as you probably know they were building muti-hundred-million dollar projects in Mexico,and India as well…who knows how far their stupidity ran unbridled.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 12:41:42

“‘What we’re hearing is that a lot more of the repossessed vehicles we are seeing were voluntarily surrendered,’ said Rob Brasher of Brasher’s Salt Lake Auto Auction. ‘The owners just called up their lenders and told them to come and get their cars because they could no longer afford the payments.’”

Jingle mail,
Jingle mail,
Jingle all the way,
Oh what fun it is to drive in a repo’d Chevrolet…

Comment by hwy50ina49dodge
2008-12-20 15:26:27

Stop it Mr. Bear!…Do not drag traditional xmas songs into this “adult themed” entertainment…you’re going to scare the “wee little ones”… who can actually sing that song in it’s entirety. A line must be drawn!… ;-)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 12:48:12

“Some of the larger-scale items that West Coast has repossessed have included a $300,000 granite saw used to cut countertops and an excavator used at one time to dig basements for homebuilders, who also have fallen on tough times.”

It sounds like the builders have done quite a job of digging themselves into the basement, alright.

Comment by AnonyRuss
2008-12-20 13:02:13

Symbolism (cuts) rocks.

 
Comment by exeter
2008-12-20 13:17:41

“an excavator used at one time to dig basements for homebuilders”

Used up iron. Buyer beware.

 
 
Comment by Bill in Tampa
2008-12-20 12:53:00

From the Salt Lake Tribune: “These days he is repossessing many more luxury and high-end automobiles, such as Porches and Mercedes Benzes.”

No problem to repo Porches[sic] use that repo’d $300,000 saw to rip it off the house.

Comment by DennisN
2008-12-20 13:05:13

I wonder how many of the repo’ed cars get trashed like repo’ed houses? Would people put it up on blocks in the driveway and Craigslist out the wheels/tires? How about the stereo? Porsche engines can go for $8K on the used market……

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-12-20 14:58:50

How much for Porche swings?

 
 
 
Comment by doug-home
2008-12-20 13:18:19

PLEASE
Lets all start calling this “THE BUSH DEPRESSION”. Some idiots on TV are calling it Obama’s recession. Sorry Bush… you have blood on your hands.

Comment by exeter
2008-12-20 13:21:22

I prefer the Hooverization of America, Conservative Liberatarian style.

Comment by wmbz
2008-12-20 15:55:15

Poor thing, still doesn’t know what a libertarian is, that’s okay it is understandable. Has no clue, there aren’t any in D.C. except perhaps Ron Paul.

 
 
Comment by SD_CDL
2008-12-20 13:26:07

Actually, its more like “Greenspan’s Depression” or “The Central Banker’s Depression” as this cycle started way before Bush. I recall Clinton era 250k exemption. Point being…when you cut the gold tie and drop massive amounts of cash, here is your result. Believe me, I am no Bush fan, but let’s not excuse Mr. Bubbles.

Comment by shizo
2008-12-20 22:21:33

It is OUR depression. Those responsible will no doubt have more than enough to weather the storm- and could care less if they get identified/associated with the debacle. The only reason the have’s have is because those of us without don’t beat their asses and take it.
Got rope?

 
 
Comment by AnonyRuss
2008-12-20 13:42:17

Well, he did re-appoint Greenspan. As did his predecessor (twice), and that guy’s predecessor, and his predecessor appointed Al.

Of course, this is pushing it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Greenspan,_Alan_(Whitehouse).jpg

 
Comment by kpom
2008-12-20 14:45:25

Barney Frank and Chris Dodd deserve co-billing.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2008-12-20 15:03:09

How about Roosevelt’s Revenge.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-12-20 15:30:58

It’s the Bush Socialism depression, caused by excess spending of taxpayer dollars. It is by no means a libertarian depression. Only an idiot thinks we have a libertarian society.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2008-12-20 16:22:15

Exactly. And now we’ll be looking at a different set of heavy handed rules, with a new set of major loopholes. Said loopholes created primarly to benefit the FIRE brigade (as always), as well as rewarding some new herds of pigs that just moved up further in line to the trough. That what the elections always come down to, ultimately - one’s place in line to the trough.

I’m not sure the new rules will necessarily be that much more coercive or socialistic than the present regime overall, just coercive and socialistic in different ways.

Of course the biggest difference will be a whole new set of unintended consequences, unknown to those writing the rules but perfectly clear to many others.

 
Comment by wmbz
2008-12-20 16:41:54

You’re right, but the problem is we have an over abundance of idiots!

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 16:38:44

And some idiots continue to sling partisan insults, when both parties - and the dupes who continue to perpetuate the Republicrat duopoly election after election - are equally culpable.

 
Comment by Vermontergal
2008-12-20 16:51:37

Most people I’ve met talk and think in the present, with very little recollection events beyond a few months ago. Given that, I think it’s pretty understandable that the blame/associations for the current conditions are made with the current President. We could all call it “Ben’s Depression” (sorry, Ben!) but the media would probably continue on associating it with the current president, regardless if that association were true.

Unless Obama can pull a Roosevelt (which he might - the charisma seems to be there), I have him pegged as a 1 term president just because we probably will not have pulled out by 2012. It really just depends on how much of the economic woes “stick” to him. The media already associating him with it is not a good start. Personally, I would never want to be President on the edge of Great Depression II.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2008-12-20 17:34:14

Option ARM resets peak in 2011 and 2012. Unemployment among construction and realHore types will remain high the next four years.

Unless: a megagigantic oilfield several times the size of Ghawar is found below Kansas City; Unless a breakthrough in cheap fusion energy leading to small fusion cells that power cars; Unless Obama does an about face and orders huge spending cuts, no more bailouts, balances the budget by 2011 and then in 2012 announces the abolition of the confiscatory tax - the 16th amendment.

 
Comment by Chip
2008-12-20 21:51:25

“Most people I’ve met talk and think in the present, with very little recollection events beyond a few months ago.”

The politicians know that and count on it. I don’t understand why anyone with sense votes to re-elect anyone, particularly at the Washington level.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:13:41

How about the “Bush-Paulson-Bernanke Contained Slowdown”?

 
Comment by cashedin05
2008-12-20 19:55:29

I am calling it the American People’s Depression. We (many on this board not included) elected these clowns and participated in the free money express. We bought the how much a month cars and homes, we charged up our credit cards and paid them off with phantom equity. The government just enabled us to do what we really wanted to do. I mean how could we live with ourselves if little Jane or John could not have their 25k+ super suite 16 parties, etc. JMHO.

Merry Christmas - Make sure to go out and spend lots of money for the good of the country.

 
 
Comment by Ann
2008-12-20 13:18:25

“You know the financial outlook is glum when the mortgage brokers who arrange loans have quit paying their own debts. That’s the case for one Las Vegas broker, an investor who’s given up making good on her rental property’s mortgage after a year of fruitless attempts to renegotiate the loan with her bank.”

“The local mortgage broker said she owes more than $100,000 beyond her home’s worth. She’s had trouble keeping renters who could cover the $2,400 monthly payment. When she first called her bank in February to discuss new loan terms, the bank told her she had too many assets to qualify for renegotiation. She called back in October and learned that she was by then too underwater for a modification. She’s paid $7,500 out of pocket in 2008 to stay current in her mortgage, but with her brokerage business slow, she can no longer afford the financial hit. She’s stopped paying the loan altogether.”

I hope they go after her residence for the difference between the loan balance and what the lender gets for the property.

I know a guy here who is living in a 2 million dollar home defaulting on 3 million dollars worth of loans…his answer, “Well, I got the million dollar home didn’t I.”

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 16:40:06

The Kool-Aid drinkers are just now noticing that cyanide after-taste.

Comment by rellimgerg
2008-12-21 00:56:31

Now that was funny!

 
 
 
Comment by jim a
2008-12-20 13:19:42

…and their median price is $166,000, which is below replacement cost in most cases… THIS was one of the things that you just couldn’t convinve the bubbleheads of a couple of years ago. NOBODY cares what you paid for it when prices are set. Just current supply and demand.

Comment by shizo
2008-12-20 22:34:40

JIM A you are soooooo right! I have told more than a few that prices are going to fall hard. The best reason homeaphiles deny this will happen is because the cost to build/materials will never be “tested” it has to stay above that cost! That’s when I point them to realtor.com and tell them to look up Detroit prices under $40K and over 3K SF. And remind them that these prices are before auto makers go TU. I have had a few (minority of them) look it up. They are SHOCKED senseless to see the results.

 
 
Comment by vmaxer
2008-12-20 13:49:30

“Calpers stresses that it’s a long-term investor and can earn back the declines in the future, just as it erased declines suffered in the dot-com bust a few years ago.”

These buffoons go from one bubble to the next, gambling with pension fund money.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-20 16:12:14

They seem to believe that mark-to-market is not real, and it’ll all come back.

Many moons ago, I once saw someone get fired on the spot for making that claim.

And these people manage money for a living?

Mon dieu, c’est incroyable!

 
Comment by denquiry
2008-12-20 16:32:10

“Calpers stresses that it’s a long-term investor and can earn back the declines in the future, just as it erased declines suffered in the dot-com bust a few years ago.”
———————————————————————–
the FUTURE they are talking about, IMO, will not be in our lifetimes.

 
Comment by combotechie
2008-12-20 18:41:33

“… gambling with pension fund money.”

Using OPM isn’t really gambling ’cause you’ve got nothin’ to lose.

 
 
Comment by dc_remter
2008-12-20 14:10:04

Does a cocktail waitress make enough to cover a 200K mortgage?

Comment by arizonadude
2008-12-20 14:47:02

Maybe so in good times but not now.Some of those hot waitresses can bring in some tips.

Comment by Blue Skye
2008-12-20 15:07:21

She’s 44. A pretty smile (at any age) gets a couple % extra out of my wallet, no more.

On the other hand, define “waitress”.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 16:50:18

Sad but true: a 44-year-old cocktail waitress is a bit past her sell-by date.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:14:50

I am thinking that with a little creativity, she might be able to figure out how to make ends meet.

 
 
Comment by Nathan
2008-12-20 14:36:27

Currently there are around 43,000 vacant hotel rooms in Las Vegas this is the reason for the deep discounts. The gaming industry is in a deep recession so they are trying to pull out all the stops to attract people to Las Vegas.

Comment by FP
2008-12-20 16:06:08

was just there not too long ago. Thursday and Friday was not good in terms of traffic. Saturday was okay but, again, when you compare it to 18 months ago, not even close. The lines for the buffet (especially the Belagio) were non-existent.

Usually when you go to Vegas, the excitement is correlated to the amount of people gambling, parting, siteseeing, etc. but it’s dead. I’m probably one of the few that goes there 3-4 times a year. I still have a good time and I have disposable income I like to play with so I’ll be there no matter what. And your right, the rooms are much cheaper. Normally a good size suite (1400-1500SQFT) suite will go for $600-1000 a night but I got one for only $350 nt and that was for a four day weekend. It doesn’t hurt to ask for a discounted rate :)

Comment by Chip
2008-12-20 21:57:34

FP - late to ask, but how did you make your reservation? Direct to hotel, Expedia, etc.? Also, are you considered a minor whale or similar so that they always give you a good deal? I’m a low-roller - don’t gamble except low-end slots for tiny $. But the shows and the food would be fun.

 
 
Comment by Mole Man
2008-12-20 17:03:41

Back in the early 1990s Vegas carpet bombed the Bay Area with junk mailed deals for free travel as long as you rented a cheap room for the weekend. We’re almost at that point again. Things could get really weird with these big new structures come online. It is extremely fortunate that the green building revolution hit when it did or the whole City Center monstrosity would turn out to have an even lower return on investment.

 
Comment by Molly
2008-12-20 18:46:16

“The gaming industry is in a deep recession so they are trying to pull out all the stops to attract people to Las Vegas.”

We just got back from our holiday Vegas trip and the strip IS hurting. Really, really low hotel rates. I got an okay rate at Sam’s Town - not as good as usual (I hate staying on the strip). The locals’ casinos are holding out and not offering such great deals (yet). The quality at the buffets has really declined in the past year. No more buffets for me.

What was really depressing in Las Vegas was the quilt (fabric) shops I usually visit. The sales staffs were downright giddy back in 2005-06, but this time they were all stomping around like dead-eyed zombies. No more quilt shops for me, either. I’ll stick with Joann’s for better prices and service.

Look, I know it’s a depressed economy but if you want to sell your stuff, you’re gonna have to suck it up and put on a happy face.

 
Comment by scdave
2008-12-21 10:15:38

Reno is hurting pretty bad also…

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 16:46:59

“Buyers have to make strong offers on REOs and short sales. They won’t be able to ‘low-ball’ the banks, Kiernan said.”

You wish. I’m not even going to bother “low-balling” until the banks have such a glut of foreclosures on their hands - and increasingly punitive legistlation from local municipalities is forcing them to maintain foreclosed properties or pay stiff penalties - that they’ll gladly accept firesale pricing just to get these properties off their books.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2008-12-20 16:49:24

I wouldn’t do a thing until RTC Redux is back in action, and even then I would wait.

This is an epic bust. Don’t be a knife-catcher.

Bulls make money, bears make money; pigs get slaughtered.

Comment by scdave
2008-12-21 10:18:26

until RTC Redux is back in action ??

Excellent point FPSS….That will take some time…Keep the powder dry…

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 16:48:15

Does anyone have a list of Calpers’ current investments? They have to be the best contrarian indicator of all time.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 16:53:44

Walker has approval for ‘every square inch’ of a dense New Urbanism-style community of as many as 10,423 housing units.”

New Urbanism, meet New Desertification.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 16:56:26

‘We just want the money back,’ said Greg Walker, director of risk management for Cypress Capital XI LLC of South Jordan, Utah.

I wonder how all these “risk managers” manage to justify their continued employment after failing to see what so many ordinary individuals in here did back in 2004/2005.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:19:15

‘…how all these “risk managers” manage to justify their continued employment…’

Nobody could have seen it coming is their mantra. They are only responsible for agreeing with a consensus of their peers; there is no need for them to address the fact that a small army of crank economists and so-called ‘tinfoil hat wearing bloggers’ foresaw what they and their peers completely missed.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2008-12-20 17:02:15

‘No one in the marketplace knew how swiftly the housing market would fall — not the Federal Reserve, not the Treasury,’ said Ted Eliopoulos, head of Calpers’s real-estate portfolio.”

Yeah, but quite a few of us who refused to take part in the marketplace, aka The Housing Bubble, saw this coming a mile away and refused to play the game. Just go back to 2004/2005: our posts are a matter of record. And now the same swindlers and fools at the Fed and the Treasury who failed to see this bust coming, much less prevent it, are going to save us, along with the Messiah?

If this wasn’t such a clown show, it would be a tragedy.

Comment by Professor Bear
2008-12-20 18:21:53

“And now the same swindlers and fools at the Fed and the Treasury who failed to see this bust coming, much less prevent it, are going to save us, along with the Messiah?”

They have been loudly crowing about how it is all contained, and then about how they were going to save us all through endless bailouts, for well over a year already. So far, no results, but I am sure that won’t stop them from continuing with the cargo drop promises.

 
 
Comment by dc_remter
2008-12-20 17:12:05

“No one in the marketplace knew how swiftly the housing market would fall — not the Federal Reserve, not the Treasury,’ said Ted Eliopoulos, head of Calpers’s real-estate portfolio.”

B.S. and that’s all I have to say about that.

 
Comment by Ms. E
2008-12-21 00:29:57

Unfortunately, where I live all the homes are being snapped up fast. Santa Rosa, CA. We STILL can’t afford to buy a home. Now the lenders won’t let us get a mortgage though my husband makes 9,500 per month. It’s unbelievable. And the speculators have come back and they’re here where I live. They’re horrible.

 
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