January 17, 2009

Nothing Down, Nothing Forever

The Missoulian reports from Montana. “Craig Siphers had a notion that the run on real estate in the Bitterroot Valley might be slowing during the summer of 2006. But the longtime real estate agent with Hamilton’s Exit Realty couldn’t have predicted then just how far it would fall. ‘The valley could only support internally so much of a price increase in real estate,’ Siphers said. ‘We found ourselves pretty much limited to outside sources. The market was pretty tough on the local guy.’”

“In 2007, there were 1,038 sales recorded in the Bitterroot MLS. In 2008, that number dropped to 583. ‘I think we all had to see it on paper to believe it,’ said Cheryl Smith of the Lambros office in Hamilton. ‘It’s quite a change. We’ve had 10 to 12, maybe even 15 years of appreciation on real estate here. … There are some agents who have not even seen a declining market before.’”

“Smith said it’s taken some time for people to fully appreciate the change in the market. ‘Everyone has been taking it for granted that real estate would continue to appreciate here,’ she said. ‘It’s been a slow market to figure out that it’s slow. … All markets are cyclical. All bubbles burst. The Bitterroot is still going to be a destination. People will save their entire lives to move here.’”

The Bozeman Daily Chronicle. “Montana homebuilders sought Thursday to drum up public support for a $150 billion package to rescue the housing industry. ‘It’s going to get worse unless something changes,’ Bill Simkins, owner of Simkins-Hallin Lumber in Bozeman, warned during a telephone conference call with reporters.”

“Simkins-Hallin has done a lot of work in Big Sky, but the market there has been ‘in a free fall,’ Simkins said. Homeowners in California, Florida and elsewhere can’t sell their homes, so they can’t build in Big Sky. ‘Thousands of contractors and suppliers are no longer working there,’ Simkins said. ‘The housing downturn is cascading through the whole economy.’”

Montana’s News Station. “For months Montana has escaped the dramatic downturn of the housing industry, but it seems the hardship has finally caught up with Big Sky Country. In a report just released by the National Association of Homebuilders, Bozeman, Great Falls, and Missoula have all seen a big drop ranging from 35% in Missoula all the way up to 65% fall in Bozeman.”

“But Billings has escaped the sharp decline, with only a ten percent drop as it continues to perform as one of the top markets in the country. ‘We didn’t overbuild. Some of those areas are somewhat overbuilt. And they will adjust, it’ll take a little more time. Billings is not done yet. We don’t have an overbuilt market. We have about a thousand residential properties on ML today. That’s not overbuilt for Billings,’ says Jeff Junkert, owner of Jeff Junkert Construction, Inc.”

“Junkert says there’s also a bright side for anyone looking to buy. ‘If there’s anybody out there that’s really been considering their profile to buy a new home, if they’re waiting because of national issues, I really feel that they’re going to miss an opportunity here in Billings because these are interest rates that you probably will not see for many, many years,’ he said.”

The CDA Press from Idaho. “With thousands of homes on the market and stagnant sales, it is still a buyer’s market in North Idaho, but a little creativity can help make the deal. ‘People won’t consider (buying) unless it is a steal,’ said Janette McKenna, an agent at Lakeshore Realty. ‘If the seller is not willing to work with them, buyers are not willing to work with them.’”

“Prices were reduced for the season to stimulate sales at Parkside, where condominiums start around a half-million dollars. ‘We had a lot of people coming in, through the worse winter and cold,’ said Tom Fisher at Century 21 Beutler and Associates, which picked up the sales contract for the project. ‘They were telling us ‘We don’t ever want to shovel snow again.’”

The Oregonian. “The Regional Multiple Listing Service report, a closely watched measure of the Portland market, shows that the median price for homes sold in December fell to $252,900. That’s a 16 percent drop from the August 2007 peak of $302,000. Since 1992, the Portland area has reported 10 months in which prices declined compared with the same month a year earlier. Nine of those occurred in 2008. The other was May 2001.”

“Listings have fallen 24 percent from last year’s peak of 18,200 in July. Even with the shrinking supply, the number of closed sales fell 46 percent, and pending sales fell 60 percent. In December, the number of closed sales reached their lowest level since February 1992. The number of pending sales fell to the lowest level since record keeping began in 1992. The result: The Portland-area market still faces a supply glut, with 14 months of inventory.”

“The unraveling of the nation’s financial sector hit Southwest Washington with bitter impact Friday when the Washington Department of Financial Institutions shut down the Bank of Clark County. Bank customers could lose nearly $40 million in deposits in the shutdown, as some accounts exceeded the $250,000 FDIC insurance.”

“The bank was heavily exposed to the faltering real estate sector through loans to builders and developers. Construction and development loans accounted for more than 36 percent of the bank’s total portfolio. Clark County has been particularly hard-hit by the real estate collapse. Heavy overbuilding helped create a huge surplus of homes. Median home values fell 11 percent on average in the 12 months ended Dec. 31.”

‘Mike Worthy, the bank’s CEO, said in early 2008 that the collapse of the residential sector was stunning in its speed, made worse by the widespread presence of speculators with hopes of flipping houses for big bucks. But he voiced confidence at the time that his bank would weather the storm.”

“‘The last number of months the bank had significant losses in its loan portfolio, which resulted in unacceptably low levels of capital,’ said Brad Williamson, director of the Washington Division of Banks.”

The Columbian from Washington. “Several top Bank of Clark County executives, including President Mike Worthy, were relieved of their positions on Friday.”

“The bank grew quickly as it aggressively courted business borrowers and developers during Clark County’s building boom. But when the housing market soured, so did its finances, as did the finances of most other banks in the region. Until recently, it was clear that the Bank of Clark County had lost money on construction and development loans, but not how bad things had become.”

“Bank of Clark County was launched in 1998 and opened its doors in 1999 with $8.6 million from more than 400 investors. ‘The shareholders are last in line,’ said Roberta Valdez, ombudsman with the FDIC. ‘Uninsured depositors have to be made whole before creditors or anybody else will get any money.’”

“Home sales in Clark County dropped by 32.6 percent in 2008, reflecting a year-long stalemate between bargain-hunting house hunters and sellers who refused to lower their prices. More than 4,650 homes were listed for sale in Clark County through November, according to RMLS, a Portland-based listing service. The supply had nearly doubled from the same period the year before. It would take 16.9 months to sell off the inventory if no new listings are added.”

“Last year’s sales were the slowest in at least the past 15 years. ‘I am hopeful that by mid 2009, we’ll see some definite signs of improvement,’ said Sandy Hendrick, executive director of the Clark County Association of Realtors.”

“However, Hendrick and others expect lenders will continue to enforce strict requirements on borrowing. It is a dramatic change from the loosening of standards practiced during the most recent housing boom, which ran through 2006. ‘We’re back to conventional lending now,’ Hendrick said, although he and other industry experts believe Clark County’s housing downturn will be shortlived compared with other parts of the country.”

“‘Let’s face it, with our population growth, the demand (for houses) is not going to go away,’ Hendrick said. ‘We’ve had a downturn, But it was much less severe than in places like Arizona, California and Nevada.’”

“The number of Clark County houses that entered foreclosure in 2008 grew 81.8 percent from 2007. A total of 2,541 houses in the county entered some stage of foreclosure last year, up from 1,398 foreclosures filed in 2007, according to the first full look at 12 months of foreclosure figures released by RealtyTrac.”

“In December, 291 foreclosures were filed in Clark County, up 87 percent from the same month in 2007. The situation continues to send troubled homeowners to the local foreclosure counseling center, said Teri Duffy, executive director of the Community Housing Resource Center. ‘All I can say is it hasn’t stopped,’ said Duffy, who blamed local job losses and the sluggish housing market for Clark County’s surge in foreclosures.”

“‘In many cases, people were relying on two incomes to make a mortgage payment. As long as those folks had those jobs, they were able to make it,’ she said.”

“Weaker home values also exacerbated the problem here, Duffy said, as today’s homeowners often can’t sell for a price that will pay off what they owe on a mortgage loan on the homes. She said many of their homes are in newer neighborhoods in Ridgefield, Battle Ground, Camas and Washougal. ‘In some cases, we’re seeing up to 15 percent less value,’ Duffy said. ‘We’re seeing homes that were bought two or three years ago, in which people really borrowed the maximum amount.’”

The Seattle Times from Washington. “Home foreclosures continue to soar across the country and are picking up speed in the Puget Sound region, despite record-low interest rates, loan-payment assistance programs and other attempts to stem a rising tide of cash-strapped homeowners unable to pay their mortgages.”

“The number of homes in some stage of the foreclosure process has doubled in King, Snohomish and Kitsap counties since 2006, according to RealtyTrac. That number nearly tripled in Pierce County.”

“Washington State University real-estate researcher Glenn Crellin, put it this way: ‘I am going to presume [the foreclosure rate] is among the worst that we’ve seen.’”

“Crellin, director of the Washington Center for Real Estate Research, forecasts more to come, as adjustable-rate mortgages on homes bought at the market’s peak reset to interest rates that might as well be in the stratosphere — as high as 30 percent in some cases, he says. ‘That tells me some of those loans are going to move from being current to being delinquent to moving toward foreclosure throughout 2009,’ said Crellin.”

“Locally, the Seattle office of the Federal Housing Administration has seen a record number of customers, nearly half of its clients, refinancing their mortgages to lower their payments, said spokesman Lee Jones. Just a few years ago, the federally insured mortgages seemed a quaint afterthought compared with the creative credit available.”

“‘Subprimes come out, and everyone decides nothing down, nothing forever is a promise they can believe in,’ Jones said.”




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81 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-01-17 12:26:48

Yes, and so it goes. These late breaking markets like Montana always go through the same motions, IMO. ‘We’re fine, great time to buy’, to ‘HOLY CRAP!’

$500k for a condo in Idaho? What does an apartment cost there?

It’s fun to see how widespread the resistance to the REIC is. From the comments on the first Missoulian article:

‘What took you Realators so long to wake up and smell the cows ? Locals cant buy a thing here - you priced the whole valley right out of their reach. Did you really expect any different? My neighbors are both for sale at prices double what they are really worth. I mean, come ON. A 1500 sqft house on 10 ac IN a flood zone for $600K and the other at $460K (same size) - out of your minds. I hold you directly responsible for ruining this valley with your subdivisions and over pricing. My kids will never be able to buy a home here. I may have to will them my farmsted…which i have put into a conservation easement so you people cant get your greedy hands on it and chop it up into one acre parcels. Go away and let the valley recover. Who needs 300 of you in one valley. Rio C.’

Comment by Muir
2009-01-17 12:41:03

Or this one:
” I agree with the previous posters.
The Bitterroot Valley as well as most other areas in western Montana have done themselves all a great disservice over the last so many years by transforming our economy into a GROWTH economy, vitualy ruining the way of life we knew, packing our roads with traffic, pastures into McMansion Estates, crime and the list goes on. We’ve done this to such a point that even people who moved here 10 years ago to ‘get away from it all”, are looking around and saying. “Gee what happened, I didn’t move here for this”.
Even the toursist are saying….”I didn’t come here to float the Bitterroot in a traffic jam of boats and view all the McMansion Estates, I think this’ll be my last trip up here”

Comment by DennisN
2009-01-17 13:09:46

I’ll never understand the mentality of people who want to “experience the wilderness” but come up in an RV with satellite TV. Why the heck don’t you just stay in a motel? You would save a huge amount by just driving up in a car.

Comment by mikey
2009-01-17 14:14:48

“Smith said it’s taken some time for people to fully appreciate the change in the market. ‘Everyone has been taking it for granted that real estate would continue to appreciate here,’ she said. ‘It’s been a slow market to figure out that it’s slow. … All markets are cyclical. All bubbles burst. The Bitterroot is still going to be a destination. People will save their entire lives to move here.’”

“Ummm. People will save their entire lives to live here ?”

Just wondering where I heard THAT 10,000 times before. Vegas..nah,..Tampa..nah,..Phoenix..nah, Victorville..nah..Newark..nah

Oh, it must have been from that that nice RE agent I meet on the plane. She is thinking about moving into her son’s basement in Nashville… after she unloads her empire of 19 prime properties in Detroit onto the US taxpayers :)

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 15:10:49

‘Oh, it must have been from that that nice RE agent I meet on the plane. She is thinking about moving into her son’s basement in Nashville… after she unloads her empire of 19 prime properties in Detroit onto the US taxpayers.’

Oh, gosh, and you didn’t grab the back of her head and pound it vigorously on the seat in front of you until an attendant pried your fingers loose and hauled you off? You have some real restraint, there, Mikey. Amazing.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-01-17 15:39:51

My previous next door neighbor was my flight attendant on that flight and I knew the pilot and his family since he was a kid. They already had me on their Terrorist Watch List.

She always used to bring me Mid West Cookies at home…until she got married and moved (:

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 19:04:24

Ummm…? This is story time, Mikey. Even before the head-banging. Tell us all the details! Like, what color was her hair, and did she like to garden….things like that.
It fleshes out the human details.

 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-01-17 14:26:12

LOL. Knew a guy who moved up to the ‘root from SoCal with all his money, built a custom log cabin back in the woods on a dirt road…set up elaborate security cameras…then spent most his evenings at the bars in town because he was lonely. What a creep.

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Comment by DennisN
2009-01-17 19:30:49

I worked with a guy named Larry at Lockheed in Sunnyvale CA. Larry was born and bred in Missoula MT: his dad owned “Don’s Family Restaurant” which was a local Missoula landmark for many years.

When I decided to bail on San Jose and retire to Boise, I called Larry and asked him what he thought of my plan. His response? Something like this: “Dennis, you are too much of a California urbanite wussie to survive in manly masculine Montana, but I think you are man enough to survive a more temperate place like Boise”.

 
 
 
Comment by incredulous
2009-01-17 17:05:30

RE“Washington State University real-estate researcher Glenn Crellin, put it this way: ‘I am going to presume [the foreclosure rate] is among the worst that we’ve seen.’”

What a complete freakin’ idiot. If I wanted a presumption I could make it myself. Taxpayers are paying this “researcher” to make presumptions? Can’t he do some research? Will the idiocy in this country never end?

Comment by Groundhogday
2009-01-18 15:49:08

No, the taxpayers don’t pay him to conduct research. He is funded by the Washington state real estate industry. You get what you pay for, right?

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Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 13:18:14

It’d be hard to find a state where the price of real estate is more detached from economic fundamentals than Montana. We’re talking about the lowest wages in the entire US with the exception of Mississippi. It’s no wonder there’s anger spilling over as evidenced by the comments following the article. If ever there was a “bring your own job state”, it’s MT. I’m betting the bust will be extraordinarily spectacular in those poor environs.

Comment by Groundhogday
2009-01-17 15:39:46

I gotta agree with you Bear. I lived in Bozeman for 4.5 years, and the delusion of greatness was astounding. Even when things were booming, 8/10 new “permanent” immigrants left within 5 years. Bozeman seems like a great place when you stop off for a visit on your way out of Yellowstone in the summer. But after a few 8 months winters at $9/hour for skilled labor, the shine tends to wear off.

Montana is essentially a 3rd world country, with pathetically low wages (almost a point of state pride) and an economy driven entirely by tourism and commodities (energy, mining, forestry).

Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 15:58:35

Yeah, I agree with you. I’ve also read some pretty disturbing things about Hungry Horse, Kalispell, and areas outside of Whitefish. Pretty rough to say the least. Almost lawless.

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Comment by Groundhogday
2009-01-17 16:45:58

If you are looking for lawless areas, head for the reservation towns in eastern Montana. Lame Dear is quite the experience on a Saturday night.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 18:53:03

I learned long ago that reservation towns are no place for a white guy like me to hang out, especially on a Saturday night.

 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-01-17 19:48:41

Montana you can brew good beer there though

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Comment by rms
2009-01-17 23:18:46

“But after a few 8 months winters…”

Exactly, winter above the 45th sux! The Columbia Basin has four months where it never gets above 40-degreesF, and two of those months it never gets above 32-degreesF. When spring arrives the wind will be above 12-mph! I’ve been waiting years now for Market Forces to return California housing to sustainable levels; sure wish the FED and our government believed in capitalism.

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Comment by Otis Wildflower
2009-01-18 13:15:05

Can’t be ALL bad, at least there was a Fuddruckers when I rode thru Billings…

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 13:18:58

A PNW thread! Hooray! Thanks, Ben!

Oh, hey? Realllly?! I guess it’s NOT different here, after all?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!

And now, I believe I’ll go back and re-read every single delightful and delicious syllable again. Slowly, luxuriously, with great satisfaction. Starting with this one:

“Home foreclosures continue to soar across the country and are picking up speed in the Puget Sound region…’

Comment by Muir
2009-01-17 13:36:33

Remember to enunciate, slowly, with your lips each syllable, specially
those long words that begin with a consonant.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 13:49:50

Oh, yes, thank you. Good idea. That’ll make the savoring even savorier. :)

Say, how did you know I talk too fast?

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Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 14:11:26

“Say, how did you know I talk too fast?”

You’ve never alluded to ADHD, excitability, sleep deprivation, or the propensity to burn 10k calories per day, have you? ;)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 15:06:55

‘You’ve never alluded to ADHD, excitability, sleep deprivation, or the propensity to burn 10k calories per day, have you?’

*thinks a minute *
Oh, yeah, huh. :)

You know what, maybe I spend too much time nattering on on here. Possibly.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-01-17 15:13:03

You’ve never alluded to ADHD, excitability, sleep deprivation, or the propensity to burn 10k calories per day, have you?

Mystery solved. Olympiagal is really a hummingbird.

 
 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-01-17 20:01:30

“Listings have fallen 24 percent from last year’s peak of 18,200 in July. Even with the shrinking supply, the number of closed sales fell 46 percent, and pending sales fell 60 percent. In December, the number of closed sales reached their lowest level since February 1992. The number of pending sales fell to the lowest level since record keeping began in 1992. The result: The Portland-area market still faces a supply glut, with 14 months of inventory.”

I interviewed in Hillsboro OR last summer but turned down the job, all thoses big green things with moss on them, scary. Where are the tumble weeds and blowing dirt ? the cactus, the red ants, old beer cans and trash ?

I do remember lots of tall homes on tiny lots with for sale signs. That can’t be good I thought.

 
 
Comment by DR Fartlestain
2009-01-17 14:10:28

Mr (JUNK)art from Billings is on the way to getting his just dues. Had a”Grey Line” tour of Billings in September ‘08 with some friends who live there. They pointed out the $1-2M (homes?) below the rimrock where the occupents had to haul their water in and sewage out.
What a deal! But you can see the Bighorns!

I suspect that MR Jeffy (JUNK)art had a grubby hand in that!

Just 1,000 listings in small city of a little over 100,000! WOW! You do the math.

Conoco-Phillips and Exon refineries our the biggest players in town plus the health care industry. Oops, I forgot. How much do the sugar beet refiner workers receive? C-P and Exon only have 30-40BBLs a day thru-put capacity a day of nasty North Dakota crude, in any case.

Suspect that Valero will end up with both of them, since the big players are getting out of refining. No money in it. Excuse me, while I wipe away my reptilian tear.

They do have a new stadium for their beloved, Class A baseball team, the Mustangs.

Comment by incredulous
2009-01-17 17:48:07

Just got my fidelity 401k statement for 2008, LMFAO, I went 90% cash in Aug 2007 when the secondary mortage market froze up following the Bear Stearns funds fiasco..
Started 2008 with 71k, contributions of 6K, total investment loss of 1k (3k loss in mutual funds offset by 2k gain in MM interest), for a current balance of 76k. The yearly mutual fund performances were all eye-popping ranging from -37% to -60%.
When I hear friends & coworkers pissing and moaning about losing half their retirement and lamenting how anyone could have seen this coming, I secretly laugh my freak’in ass off.

Comment by not a gator
2009-01-19 10:53:21

my wife couldn’t stop bragging to her mother on the phone about the mint she made in her scottrade IRA us treasuries fund–and sold, this month, locking in the gains….

If it sounds bad (to brag at a time like this), please understand that it’s part of her campaign to convince her mother that having a same-sex partner isn’t the end of the world … Mommy (-I-L) Dearest never saved much and it hoping the bounteous state of Florida will live up to its pension obligations when she eventually retires from teaching school.

(My own mother got over the whole same-sex thing when she first met my wife… driving a used Toyota Corolla. Over the course of conversation it was revealed that she had completed 5 years of school and two degrees on full scholarship and was finishing up her Master’s with no student debt. After that, Sonya could do no wrong.)

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Comment by exeter
2009-01-17 12:49:56

“But Billings has escaped the sharp decline, with only a ten percent drop as it continues to perform as one of the top markets in the country. ‘We didn’t overbuild. Some of those areas are somewhat overbuilt. And they will adjust, it’ll take a little more time. Billings is not done yet. We don’t have an overbuilt market. We have about a thousand residential properties on ML today. That’s not overbuilt for Billings,’ says Jeff Junkert, owner of Jeff Junkert Construction, Inc.”

“Junkert says there’s also a bright side for anyone looking to buy. ‘If there’s anybody out there that’s really been considering their profile to buy a new home, if they’re waiting because of national issues, I really feel that they’re going to miss an opportunity here in Billings because these are interest rates that you probably will not see for many, many years,’ he said.”

—————————————————————
All the hallmarks of REIC denial.

A) Inventory is low, we’re not overbuilt (Lie- with 39000 total units in Billings, 1000 is ALOT not to mention 2000 out of those 39000 are EMPTY)

B) Rates are low, Buy now (Sense of urgency)

C) We escaped a sharp decline. Prices have only fallen 10%. (Implicit suggestion that it’s over and all is well)

And with a company name like Junker, he may as well change it to Jalopy.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-01-17 12:57:50

After all the media coverage on this issue, it really amazes me depositors are still keeping moneys above the limit.

“Bank customers could lose nearly $40 million in deposits in the shutdown, as some accounts exceeded the $250,000 FDIC insurance.”

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-17 14:48:39

say you hit a lottery.. How would you handle that?

Suppose you have $10M. What do you do with it?
Put that in 40 different institutions @ $250K each? Can you pick 40 banks you’d trust with a quarter-million of your dollars? Are there even 40 different banking institutions within 100 miles of the average person? Does keeping track of 10 or 15 internet bank accounts sound like fun?
At the beginning of every month you get lots of snail and email.. about 60 or 100 bank statements and various other stuff from all these places. CDs mature, banks split up, merge (or fail), interest rates change, accounts show errors or fraud, etc, etc. It’s a lot to keep track of.
Consider how much trouble and headaches one little checking account normally causes over a period of years. Multiply the time, effort and worry spent on that by at least 40.
As to hiring an accountant to do this for you, is it worrisome that someone else knows everything and is responsible for everything, while you’re not even exactly sure where your money is?

So, maybe someone with lots of cash stuffs a little too much in a few accounts just to consolidate and keep things managable. And, by chance one of those institutions goes under. You’re still first in line to collect whatever was above the insured limit. It’s not a big deal.

Comment by bink
2009-01-17 16:04:26

“You go to the zoo and get a lion, then you put a remote-control bomb up its butt… you push the button on the bomb, and you and the lion die like one.”

Wait, what was the question again?

Comment by calex
2009-01-17 17:05:40

Its no big deal…. the talented management got their retention bonus in December.

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Comment by CrackerJim
2009-01-17 17:36:18

Try CDARs (Certificate of Deposit Account Registry).
2500 or so small to mid size banks coordinate under a government approved program whereby you put your money (up to $20MM in a single account at one of the banks (your choice). The CDAR program divides your account up into FDIC insured amounts across member banks but you have one statement, one bank to contact.
Try this link:
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/ways-boost-your-fdic-deposit/story.aspx?guid=%7B2B6D1872-2AC1-491B-A3ED-F8D0710BB320%7D

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-17 18:40:25

yeah.. granted, there are a few ways. My bank offers a similar service for a fee. Most probably do.

There’s an interesting line in that link even while it’s dated 2005:
just 60% of our $4.4 trillion in deposits are FDIC-insured today.

So.. about $1.7 trillion is uninsured?!?
Beyond what i mentioned, which is mostly just a matter of personal convenience, can we assume there’s no good reason for this? Is this wealth owned by stupid people? I’m sure there are plenty of good reasons.

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Comment by Bad Chile
2009-01-17 18:52:14

Yeah. But you don’t have to work. Spend an hour once a week managing your accounts, have them set so only 25% need attention on any given week.

What else are you going to do with your time???

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-17 19:48:18

What else are you going to do with your time???

Money doesn’t fundamentally change a person. It can only enhance what already exists, both the negatives and positives..
So, they will invariably be doing more of what they’ve been doing (along with worrying a lot about money).

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Comment by not a gator
2009-01-19 10:56:16

as to hiring an accountant–?

what, you have $10 mill and can’t afford $600/mo for a reputable accounting firm to keep an eye on your cash holdings?!?!

methinks you have larger problems…

and if you don’t trust your accountant, have a different firm audit the books every 6 months. yeesh.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-01-17 13:00:11

“Smith said it’s taken some time for people to fully appreciate the change in the market. ‘Everyone has been taking it for granted that real estate would continue to appreciate here,’ she said. ‘It’s been a slow market to figure out that it’s slow. …

The observation of a genius. Note how these NAR shills, who always justified their 6% cut by claiming a superior knowledge of local RE markets, not to mention their Suzanne-like research skills, are now trying desperately to evade their own culpability in the housing bubble fiasco by bleating that “everyone took it for granted” that real estate only went up. Naturally: when “everyone” is responsible, no one is accountable. Except a causual perusal of this blog’s archives going back to 2004 gives the lie to the “we’re all guilty” defense. There were numerous unheeded warnings, in here and by numerous other “prophets without honor” that this was going to end badly.

Comment by exeter
2009-01-17 19:53:12

You’ve made that observation consistently for years here and it’s been one I lean on consistently.

Stay on ‘em.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-01-17 13:05:07

“Bank customers could lose nearly $40 million in deposits in the shutdown, as some accounts exceeded the $250,000 FDIC insurance.”

Good grief. After all the bank closings this past year, you mean there are still some dunderheads who refuse to keep their deposits at any given bank under the FDIC limits?

I want to grab these idiots by the throat and bang their heads against a concrete wall, screaming in their face “GODDAMN IT YOU STUPID MORON!”

Comment by polly
2009-01-17 13:59:14

I admit I let my accounts at one banks get over the $100K limit that was. Fixed that right quick when the first US bank went under. Actually, I think it is about time to shift a little more over to the new bank.

Wonder if I will ever need to get a third? Depending on how long this all takes, I guess it is possible….

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 14:24:24

“I want to grab these idiots by the throat and bang their heads against a concrete wall, screaming in their face “GODDAMN IT YOU STUPID MORON!””

I don’t. I enjoy seeing them punished for treating something so important, which so many have too little of, with such disrespect. My heart doesn’t bleed for anyone who has more than $250k in the bank. My compassion is reserved for the poor and less fortunate.

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-01-17 15:16:01

I want to grab these idiots by the throat and bang their heads against a concrete wall, screaming in their face “GODDAMN IT YOU STUPID MORON!”

Sir, I must protest. That’s no way to treat a concrete wall.

Comment by polly
2009-01-17 18:54:12

:)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 19:06:12

‘Sir, I must protest. That’s no way to treat a concrete wall.’

That’s what I like most about you—perspective.

HGahahahah!

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-01-17 13:06:51

‘Mike Worthy, the bank’s CEO, said in early 2008 that the collapse of the residential sector was stunning in its speed, made worse by the widespread presence of speculators with hopes of flipping houses for big bucks. But he voiced confidence at the time that his bank would weather the storm.”

Fast forward: The Columbian from Washington. “Several top Bank of Clark County executives, including President Mike Worthy, were relieved of their positions on Friday.”

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

If there’s anything more satisfying than seeing all the foolish and smug FBs of the 2004/2006 timeframe getting their heads handed to them, it’s seeing their Enablers - the clueless and irresponsible lenders - finally facing actual consequences for years of reckless and unsound lending practices.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 13:15:06

Testify, Sammy! TestiFYYYYY!!

 
Comment by mikey
2009-01-17 14:27:53

“..were relieved of their positions on Friday”

A lot more people would be relived if we gave these “executive types” a blindfold and a cigarette break in front of a wooden post with lots of sandbags behind it :)

 
Comment by Otis Wildflower
2009-01-18 13:20:09

We’re not Worthy!!

 
 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 13:27:43

“Last year’s sales were the slowest in at least the past 15 years. ‘I am hopeful that by mid 2009, we’ll see some definite signs of improvement,’ said Sandy Hendrick, executive director of the Clark County Association of Realtors.”

Don’t hold you breath, lady. Check that- please hold your breath until things improve. When you turn purple, pass out, hit your head and expire, we might throw some dirt on you- or at least move your stinking corpse out of the way of our feet.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 13:51:19

I like your anger!
Your plans are good, too. :)

Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 14:05:15

Tongue was getting a little sharp so I had to go feed myself. :)

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 19:08:00

Oh, I know what you mean! I want to be a kinder, better Olygal, and towards that end I go feed me, too.

But then I’m hungry again in ten (ten) minutes, and it all goes to crap right away.

Sigh.
It’s the stomach. It’s not my fault…really.

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Comment by polly
2009-01-17 14:00:50

Get the buyers to cut prices (not sure what % is needed in that neck of the woods - 30% 50% 70%) and you will get the volume back eventually.

Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 14:14:30

The mere suggestion of lowering prices around here is met with ferocious anger and vitriol. This place is special.

Comment by palmetto
2009-01-17 15:02:26

Bantering, how’s your homestead working out? I must say, I was very impressed with your idea and how you went about accomplishing it. It was like you did it in spite of the market, as if it wasn’t even a factor. Very cool. The sort of thing I hope to pull off.

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Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 15:27:53

Thanks, Palmetto. Fixers are the way to go, IMO, if you’re single, handy, have the tools, and you can get a good price. Starting to see some decent properties on acreage show up. I wish I had a little money, and could afford to be wrong, I might take a chance on a few of them at some point. I enjoy rehabilitating old homes. Not as a flipper, but as someone who appreciates the old architecture and craftsmanship.

The real downer around here is the economy. It’s gotten really, really awful. For someone who’s read the blog for more than 3 years, I truly didn’t expect the Greater Depression scenario. It’s amazing how quickly things have turned. At least once a week, I’ll drive through town somewhere, and notice another small business has disappeared.

 
Comment by Lost in Utah
2009-01-17 15:31:28

I thought Bantering B. was a Bigfoot, why would he need a homestead when the whole forest is his already? :)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 19:20:17

Oh, lookin you, you’s all playful. Like someone who’s hanging out in Montana preparing to get more education, with not a care in the world.
And now let us answer:

‘I thought Bantering B. was a Bigfoot, why would he need a homestead when the whole forest is his already?’

Hmmmm. Because:
1.) Bigfoot likes cheese and nice micro-brews as much as the rest of us, and:
2.) ’cause raccons ain’t that good at brewing.
b.) They also TOTALLY suck at managing cheese cultures. (And don’t think I haven’t watched and offered advice, because I have. Racccooons take good advice for crap!)

Look, it’s all fun and games until their ain’t no beer and it gets cold. Is my point.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Teri Pittman
2009-01-17 14:11:05

It won’t help for buyers to cut prices, if people don’t have jobs. The job loss in Clark County has been pretty stunning too.

Comment by LongIslandLost
2009-01-17 15:06:17

It won’t help all of the sellers. But, it will help the one seller who cuts their price the most.

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-17 15:21:32

yeah.. jobs loss is the big thing. It’s begun to expand beyond the house and finance related industries.

I found this story about a typical small business pretty interesting. They’re borrowing from the bank, from investors, friends and family, trying to survive. Strapped for cash because everything is on the edge, he misses a mortgage payment, thinking it’s no big deal.
A critical SBA loan is denied because he missed that house payment.
He can’t get sale catalogs from the printer and mail them out in time.. sales suffer.. everything falls apart including the marriage.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123145502270765963.html

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 19:10:20

‘The job loss in Clark County has been pretty stunning too.’

Tell us all more, my darling Terri.

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-01-17 15:01:13

“Montana homebuilders sought Thursday to drum up public support for a $150 billion package to rescue the housing industry. ‘It’s going to get worse unless something changes,’ Bill Simkins, owner of Simkins-Hallin Lumber in Bozeman, warned during a telephone conference call with reporters.”

Actually, many things WILL change, on the way to getting a LOT WORSE. Somebody might drum up support to sue you and the Montana homebuilders for $150 billion. You may become the former owner of a former lumber company. You may have your telephone disconnected for non-payment. You may find a lot of public support for putting builders, bankers, real estate hucksters, and reporters behind bars. You may wish you never heard of Bozeman or Montana or the housing industry.
Hope springs eternal.

Comment by Groundhogday
2009-01-17 15:44:12

Don’t you just love the underlying logic: housing is WAY overbuilt, so we need a stimulus package to keep building.

 
Comment by SDGreg
2009-01-18 01:42:39

“Asked why taxpayers should give homebuyers up to $22,000, Markstein said it would “prime the pump” for the entire economy. Builders insisted they’re not asking for a bailout for themselves, but for middle-class Americans who want to buy homes.”

Builders don’t give a flying f about middle class Americans. They’ve spent the last decade churning out over-sized, poorly located housing that’s not remotely affordable to anyone that could reasonably be considered middle class If you want to help the middle class, lower the price of existing housing in line with incomes. Don’t build yet more housing they can’t afford.

 
Comment by Meredith
2009-01-19 23:09:45

Wow… I can’t believe they’re even trying to “drum up support”…. I hope real estate in this valley falls flat on its face. I’m sick of renting from a millionaire, and I’m equally sick of smug real estate agents who deny the market might be in a downturn, and also tired of seeing row upon row of cardboard condos for over 200K, that my husband and I are supposed to look at as a “bargain.”

 
 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2009-01-17 15:20:18

‘The valley could only support internally so much of a price increase in real estate,’ Siphers said. ‘We found ourselves pretty much limited to outside sources. The market was pretty tough on the local guy.’”

Ditto every city/town outside of California in the West.

Pretty tough on the local guy? How ’bout non-existant for the local guy. But that’s changed or is in the process of changing. Local guys who played it smart make their comeback in the years to come.

Comment by BanteringBear
2009-01-17 16:03:34

We’ve got a situation in this country where most locales are grotesquely overpriced whether it’s in rents or the cost to own. Large swaths of overpriced homes sit vacant, while people scurry to find a reasonably priced place which is sustainable given their income level. I blame the entire situation on politicians. There is no way we could have arrived here without their incompetence and corruption.

Comment by Groundhogday
2009-01-17 16:56:12

Pullman, WA is one of the LEAST sexy towns in the west. Median household income is slightly over $50k. Bottom end of the housing market: $200k. No place escaped the disconnect between home prices and incomes.

But a friend’s wife just told me that “you can’t put a price on owning your own home.” Really? I computed the price of her house in equivalent rental terms… twice what her house would pull on the rental market.

When everyone can compute 120x rent, we’ll see some rationality in home prices.

Comment by uptick
2009-01-20 16:54:24

Just looked at houses in Idaho, 2 acres and a double wide miles and miles from anywhere, asking almost $600K.

Silly.

Also, what a fool below with her creative financing.

“People won’t consider (buying) unless it is a steal,” said Janette McKenna, an agent at Lakeshore Realty. “If the seller is not willing to work with them, buyers are not willing to work with them.”

After looking at as many as 100 homes, Angela Dredge bought a home McKenna had listed for about a year. It wasn’t a price decrease that got the deal done, it was creative financing.”

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-17 17:03:35

yeah.. from coast to coast local leadership, supposedly a little more knowledgeable, forward thinking, responsible and generally wiser than the average schmuck, got the fever along with everyone else… and then growth had no more boundaries.

 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-01-17 16:17:04

Jumping up and down and raising hands, not just outside of California. I know plenty of local people here who have been priced out of their cities.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-01-18 03:02:02

+1

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-01-18 03:56:20

My family lived in San Jose since around 1900. Looking back now I see that each successive generation lived less well than their parents due to the insane cost of living. My grandparents really had it made - they lived in a nice place and never really had to knock themselves out working. They always seemed to have money for luxuries like Packard autos and seemed to have lots of time off from working for leisurely vacations fishing in the Sierras.

My uneducated dad got back from WWII and bought a new house in Palo Alto for $10.5K via a GI bill loan. He was a lineman for the phone company at the time. Can you imagine a blue-collar working stiff buying a new house in Palo Alto and easily making the payments in today’s world?

Comment by not a gator
2009-01-19 11:05:25

dude, that’s an expensive house for back then. weren’t tract housing going for $5k, median wage around $3k? Hope he was making a little more than that, ouch.

of course, it’s no comparison to 10x income. hail britannia, vegas y los angeles…
espana, eire (mile failte), et Dubai…
Compton, Bozeman, NoVa
Sarasota, hola–
Miami e America Central

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Comment by P. Pearsey von Peepwig
2009-01-17 18:38:15

Wage arbitrage is a crime because it only works as long as everyone else doesn’t do it too.

If it weren’t for wage arbitrage, Bill in Los Angeles would never get a girlfriend.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-01-17 19:13:08

‘If it weren’t for wage arbitrage, Bill in Los Angeles would never get a girlfriend.’

This would be the one with the anorak? Or the one with the blue-skin Bedouin boyfriend, who has a scimitar hidden in his underpants?
I never can tell them apart. (hiccup)

 
Comment by exeter
2009-01-17 20:10:45

One only can have pity for such a pathetic sot.

 
 
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