January 23, 2009

From Extremely Affordable To The Craziness Of The Era

It’s Friday desk clearing time for this blogger. “Michael Smith moved 2,500 miles across Australia in July to earn A$120,000 ($80,000) as a blaster. Now the 30-year-old explosives expert is a motorcycle courier making half his former wage. Smith’s woes mirror those of Western Australia. The slowdown is taking its toll on a Perth housing boom that drove up prices by 146 percent between 2002 and December 2007. The cost of housing dropped 11 percent last year. Smith is contemplating selling two houses he bought with borrowed money unless he can find another high-paying mining job.”

“‘When I came over, there was plenty of work and everyone was making money,’ he said. ‘I’ve applied for everything, but a lot of the mining work is frozen now.’”

“Economist Russ Thibeault of Applied Economic Research in Laconia told members of the House Finance and Ways and Means committees that the backlog of unsold houses in New Hampshire is 16 months and growing, he said, up from 11 months a year ago. This comes despite a 16 percent drop in median prices during 2008.”

“New housing construction is at a 40-year low, he added, and foreclosures have soared from 401 statewide in 2004 to 1,056 in 2006 to 2,073 in 2007 and to an estimated 3,500 in 2008. Robert Tannenwald of the Federal Reserve Bank in Boston told lawmakers that housing prices have dropped 22 percent across New England since their peak in 2006, and nearly 1.1 percent of mortgages are going sour. ‘Not to say we’re in a depression, but we haven’t seen financial disruptions on this scale in many decades,’ he said. ‘The problem is this recession is just getting started.’”

“Massachusetts’ economy unraveled quickly last month as the state shed jobs at a faster pace than the nation and the unemployment rate soared to its highest level in more than 15 years. Over the past two months, the state has shed nearly 40,000 jobs, the worst two months of losses since the recession of the early 1990s. ‘It’s like we’re on a bungee cord,’ said Alan Clayton-Matthews, a professor of public policy at the University of Massachusetts at Boston. ‘We’re free falling, and it’s not clear where the bottom is.’”

“Tim Fraser, president of a staffing firm that specializes in the construction industry, said his company is now dealing with ‘hordes’ of laid-off construction workers seeking jobs. ‘There’s many who I thought would never be out of work,’ he said.”

“In Sanford, the town’s status as a place where working families could find affordable homes began to change during the real estate boom, according to Demetria Chadbourne, a Gorham real estate agent who works closely with distressed property owners. Sanford’s proximity to Boston brought out-of-state buyers and developers to the area, pushing up home prices.”

“After the economy crashed, many people couldn’t afford their homes, leading to foreclosures. ‘You went from extremely affordable housing to the craziness of the 2003 to 2006 era,’ she said.”

“Randy Bryant traveled here from Overland Park, Kan., in search of ways to survive the worst downturn he’s seen in the new-home market in the 18 years he’s been a builder. ‘So far, nothing,’ he said yesterday outside Professional Builder magazine’s Show Village Home in the parking lot of Las Vegas’ convention center.”

“An estimated 60,000 fellow builders came to this year’s International Builders Show looking for the same thing - some clue on how to get business rolling again. Bryant, who builds houses priced in the range of $800,000 to $1.5 million, said prospective buyers still showed up to look, but ‘there haven’t been a lot of deals lately.’ He has not been building much, but he could not start a house if he wanted to ’since lenders don’t want to finance spec homes.’ So he watches and waits, ‘doing a few remodels and a commercial loft project. . . . I’m not turning anything down.’”

“More than two dozen builders have suspended operations in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, analysts estimate, leaving some homebuyers and new owners in the lurch. Dallas housing analyst Ted Wilson said that even builders who don’t make business mistakes can be shut down when they can no longer borrow money. In some cases, lenders are even demanding repayment of loans that are in good standing.”

“‘You can have the best-run company now – good product in good locations – and all that’s out the window,’ said Wilson. ‘At the peak of the market, we probably had 80 or so production builders in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. We probably have lost 25 or so of those already. Layoffs have been rampant throughout the industry,’ Wilson recently told a meeting of real estate execs. ‘Not a day goes by that I don’t hear from someone who’s out of a job. We could more than fill this room.’”

“In Fort Worth, 9,017 houses were sold last year through November, nearly 3,000 fewer than the peak number sold in 2006, according to figures. Jim Gaines, with the Real Estate Center at Texas A&M University, said he expects sales for 2009 to return to levels seen in 2002 and 2003, when between 7,300 and 7,700 houses were sold. ‘It’s not a market that is out of whack or out of balance,’ Gaines said. ‘The key that’s going on in our soft housing market today is the fall of home prices.’”

“Already more than a year old, the U.S. recession could run another six to 12 months but spare Colorado its full wrath, according to economic forecasts presented Wednesday morning. ‘This is a little bit like having the coolest seat in hell,’ joked Tom Clark, executive VP of the Metro Denver Economic Development Corp., about Colorado doing better than other states in the worst downturn since the 1930s.”

“Although many economists expect a national recovery to emerge by the third quarter, VectraBank Colorado economist Jeff Thredgold said he leans toward a recovery starting in the fourth quarter. ‘We are going through a deleveraging of a financial house of cards built up over 10 years,’ he said.”

“The bank that financed the new W Scottsdale Hotel and Residences has begun foreclosure proceedings, the latest in a string of legal and financial woes for the high-profile project. Several subcontractors also have filed liens against the hotel, and a couple followed up with lawsuits. They all likely will now have to get in line. ‘Contractors can be left holding the bag,’ said Ron Messerly, a partner in the Phoenix law firm of Snell and Wilmer.”

“Another venerable name in Sacramento-area home building is apparently on the ropes. Irvine-based John Laing Homes, consistently in or near the top 10 for area builders in recent years, ‘is currently reviewing all potential options to meet its capital requirements,’ says the firm.”

“The ominous statement is the newest among pronouncements that have clobbered Sacramento’s home-building sector in recent months. Several builders have collapsed, gone bankrupt or simply mothballed developments until the storm passes. But John Laing Homes, thought to have some of the industry’s deepest pockets, may be the most unexpected so far.”

“Global press reports indicate that a much-heralded 2006 deal, in which one of the world’s largest real estate developers, Dubai-based Emaar Properties, bought John Laing Homes for $1.05 billion, has gone sour. Plans were to use Emaar’s deep pockets to expand Laing beyond its traditional markets in California and Colorado. Now, with the U.S. housing market stumbling, the builder is reportedly a drag on Emaar’s bottom line, which is also suffering from falling real estate values in Dubai.”

“In at least five Sacramento-area ZIP codes now, bank repos have driven median sales prices below $100,000, reports MDA DataQuick. Here’s a look at those December median prices: $64,000 in Sacramento’s 95814, down 60 percent from a year earlier. $68,500 in Sacramento’s 95815, down 63 percent from December 2007. $70,000 in Sacramento’s 95824, down 58 percent from a year earlier. $87,500 in Sacramento’s 95838, down 43 percent from the same time in 2007.”

“The worst year on record for the Las Vegas housing market is over, and the question now is whether it can sink any deeper in 2009. It’s a possibility that many experts suggest is highly likely. ‘I don’t think anybody could have predicted that we’d see a 33 percent drop in prices in 2008. I’ll confess I did not see that coming; nor did a lot of other people,’ said Larry Murphy, president of Las Vegas-based SalesTraq. ‘I don’t claim to be an expert on Las Vegas housing. I’m a student of the market, and it’s taught me a lot.’”

“The resale median price in Las Vegas peaked at $283,000 in 2006 and has come down dramatically since then, Murphy of SalesTraq said. Homes under $200,000, generally considered entry-level homes, made up 83 percent of the market in 2003, he said. That was diminished by one-third in 2004 and again by one-third in 2005.”

“‘We were anticipating the demise of the $200,000 home, that it would become extinct,’ Murphy said. ‘We buried the $100,000 home two years ago. Wayne Laska of Storybook Homes now has a new 1,200-square-foot home for $89,900 in northeast Las Vegas. We suddenly have affordability again in Las Vegas and that’s a good thing.’”

“Fort Myers/Naples is the second most overbuilt market in the nation for subdivision homes, according to a report released Thursday. ‘Florida leads the nation as the most overbuilt, with 12.6 months of finished vacant inventory in South Florida, 10 months in Naples/Fort Myers, and 9.2 months in Central Florida,’ said Brad Hunter, chief economist of consulting for Metrostudy.”

“Hardest hit, he said, are the areas such as Lee County where a lot of homes were built by speculators in the construction boom that ended in late 2005. ‘It’s also a feedback effect,’ Hunter said. ‘Housing starts got trimmed back because demand fell from unrealistic levels and then, as those cutbacks to the home builders’ side rippled through the local economy, that further negatively impacted demand and we’re still in the grips of that downward spiral now.’”

“John McIlwain, senior resident for housing at the Washington-based Urban Land Institute, said the underlying problem is that for several years in the boom the country built more than 2 million new housing units a year, far more than the 1.5 million to 1.7 million that were actually needed. Now, he said, only 800,000 to 900,000 are being built but it’s hard for prospective buyers to step up: ‘We’re not working through the inventory the way you’d expect us to.’”

“A year ago, condos in downtown Salt Lake City were selling at a fast clip, averaging more than one sale per day. The average time a condo was on the market before a buyer snapped it up was 28 days, according to figures from the Salt Lake Board of Realtors.”

“Sellers were in the driver’s seat. Sale prices were 100 percent of list prices, suggesting buyers had little ground to negotiate a deal. Twelve months later, the condo market is upside-down. It’s a buyer’s market — except there are no buyers. Sales ‘went from full throttle to a standing halt,’ said Babs De Lay, a downtown real estate agent.”

“Tahoe Basin real estate pockets are uncharacteristic of the states and counties they occupy, local real estate agents say. Back when properties were being purchased by speculative buyers in areas like Reno and Las Vegas, the existing market allowed these buyers to flip the property for profit, said Chris Plastiras, Owner of Lake Shore Realty in Incline Village.”

“Now, however, in the heart of the housing crisis, those buyers are realizing they can no longer make a profit and they are simply walking away. ‘Buying property and flipping it for profit was definitely an option for a while,’ said Plastiras. ‘But now that has all gone away and those markets have suffered dramatically.’”

“In some areas, foreclosure rates are so high that current prices reflect what they were nearly a decade ago. ‘There’s a huge difference when you hit Sacramento,’ said Kelly Smith, a Realtor in Carnelian Bay. ‘There are so many foreclosures there that prices have stepped back seven years.’”

“While the foreclosure problem is not as bad in Tahoe as it is in other areas of California and Nevada, realtors are beginning to see the need to cater to ‘distressed properties’ in their listing service. The Tahoe Sierra Board of Realtors approved a field in their MLS database last week that will include properties sold under ‘distressed conditions,’ including foreclosures and short sales, said John Falk, Legislative Advocate for the Tahoe Sierra Board of Realtors.”

“Behind the housing boom and bust was one of those alluring but undefined phrases that are so popular in politics– ‘affordable housing.’ It is hard for me to know specifically what politicians are talking about when they use this phrase. But then politics is about evoking emotions, not examining specifics.”

“In looking back over my own life, I find it hard to think of a time when I didn’t live in affordable housing. When I first left home, back in 1948, I rented a room about 4 by 8 feet, costing $5.75 a week. Since my take-home pay was $22.50, that was affordable housing.”

“In 1969, I rented my first house, which I could now afford, after several years as a faculty member at various colleges and universities. A dozen years later, I began to buy my first house. While the specifics will differ from person to person, my general pattern was not unusual. Most people pay for what they can afford at the time.”

“What, then, is the ‘problem’ that politicians claim to be solving when they talk about creating ‘affordable housing’?”

“What they are saying and doing usually boils down to trying to enable people to choose what housing they want first– and then have some law or policy where somebody else, somewhere else, somehow or other, makes that housing ‘affordable’ for them. If you think it through, that is a policy for disaster.”

“We cannot all go around buying whatever we want, whether or not we have enough money to afford it, and have somebody else make up the difference. For society as a whole, there is no somebody else. But of course political slogans are not meant to be thought through, are they? They are often an emotional substitute for thinking at all.”




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93 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-01-23 13:04:27

Another great week! I’m out working on houses, so you guys be good and check back this weekend.

Comment by wmbz
2009-01-23 14:23:57

Thanks Ben as always!

 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2009-01-23 15:37:17

Your not showin’ us your cards, dude…….how many have you bought so far?

Comment by bink
2009-01-23 17:26:13

Quick, get the blog research team to start looking up house purchase records!

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-01-23 13:11:03

Ben,

Thank you for another great week. Don’t work too hard now.

 
Comment by Rancher
2009-01-23 13:25:46

“We cannot all go around buying whatever we want, whether or not we have enough money to afford it, and have somebody else make up the difference. For society as a whole, there is no somebody else. But of course political slogans are not meant to be thought through, are they? They are often an emotional substitute for thinking at all.”

I’m in shock! Someone who works in real estate
who actually can think and reason. Mark this date
down for history! I’ll actually buy this man a drink.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-01-23 13:42:35

“Michael Smith moved 2,500 miles across Australia in July to earn A$120,000 ($80,000) as a blaster. Now the 30-year-old explosives expert is a motorcycle courier making half his former wage.

We Have Explosive

(Anyone else into the Future Sound of London?)

Comment by mikey
2009-01-23 15:24:00

Kinda sounds like Mr High Explosive Man’s two houses…exploded in his face.

b..b..but it’s different down HERE in Australia…KABOOOM !!!!

Way to Go down there ..Wilie E. Coyote :)

 
Comment by drumminj
2009-01-23 19:30:41

It’s been a long time (since college - 10 years ago?), but yes, I know what you’re referring to :)

 
Comment by Alex
2009-01-24 04:12:14

I have their Lifeforms CD set. It’s awesome.

 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-01-23 13:43:32

Uh, that was Thomas Sowell, wasn’t it? He works for the Hoover Institution.

 
Comment by rikkitikkitavi
2009-01-23 15:59:36

The author, Thomas Sowell, does not work in real estate. He’s a conservative, African-American economist at Stanford. He’s often too conservative for me, but I’ve always enjoyed reading him.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-01-23 17:27:29

When I emailed Thomas Sowell about our opposing viewpoint on outsourcing (he thought it was a positive for the U.S.) he was kind enough to send me an autographed book with a handwritten note. He is a 1st class act. I just have opposing viewpoints on a lot of his opinions and world views.

“Let’s agree to disagree” is what civil humans say and do.

Comment by hoz
2009-01-23 21:43:44

I agree with Mr. Sowell that foreign trade and outsourcing is net beneficial to our country.

However, we - as a country - have not taken advantage of that trade and outsourcing.

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Comment by Eudemon
2009-01-25 02:35:34

I’m not part of your “our” comment, either. Jobs should go to where they can be most efficiently completed.

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Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-01-23 19:01:18

I think Mr. Sowell is a neo-con, not a conservative. The two have gotten intertwined. If he is saying objective things about the real estate bubble, then I must applaud him.

Comment by Amy P
2009-01-23 20:00:56

I don’t know how Sowell self-identifies, but he gives off a libertarian vibe. He has some very interesting and original books. I especially like his work describing the survival strategies of entrepeneurial/technical minorities across the globe: Chinese merchants outside China, Jews in Europe, East Indians in Africa, Germans in Russia, etc. To put it very briefly, the story of a lot of these minorities goes like this: work really hard, teach your kids to study, prosper, be envied by majority populations, flee for your life. The universality of this story line is a very sad commentary on human nature. His autobiography is interesting, too.

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Comment by Chip
2009-01-23 20:10:08

If Sowell is for no-questions-asked support of whatever Israel chooses to do, then I agree. If not, I disagree. IMO, that is the core distinction between professed “conservatives” and “neoconservatives.” Disagreement is welcome, preferably with detailed reasoning.

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Comment by Chip
2009-01-23 20:15:10

BTW - I think “neocons” is a useless term when referring to the housing bubble, unless one wishes to lump them in with “liberals.” All it does (sometimes intentionally - beware) is distract from the solution to the mess. Better to define oneself in terms of economic “styles” or “preferences,” since this is first an economic problem and second a political one.

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-01-24 00:20:44

I don’t follow Sowell in general, but I have enjoyed pretty much everything he has had to say about the housing bubble; remember his “Frenzied Froth” piece about the Alt-A Bay Area, long before their bubble burst?

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Comment by Chip
2009-01-23 20:06:12

That (Sowell’s) was my favorite of the referenced articles and quotes. Distilled: “Take responsibility for yourself, because no other free person wants to.”

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-01-24 19:53:25

The author, Thomas Sowell, does not work in real estate. He’s a conservative, African-American economist at Stanford.

He is not conservative. He is a capitalist. Major difference.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-01-25 18:42:20

I like his biographical comments about housing, where he really makes some sense, but in general, I’ve learned to skip over his columns. I call them “Thomas Sowell’s Dispatches from La-La Land.”

 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-01-23 13:26:36

“What they are saying and doing usually boils down to trying to enable people to choose what housing they want first– and then have some law or policy where somebody else, somewhere else, somehow or other, makes that housing ‘affordable’ for them. If you think it through, that is a policy for disaster.”

While that is certainly true, and the excesses of the McMansions are absurd, something else happened in many markets during the housing bubble. It isn’t that people decided they were entitled to more house. It’s that they were priced out of areas where people just like themselves had lived for generations.

“Most people pay for what they can afford at the time.”

That went down. Now it’s going up. It had little to do with “affordable housing.”

Comment by CA renter
2009-01-24 03:18:11

Very true, WT.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-01-25 18:44:03

Agreed. I would argue that in some areas, like New England, this started in the mid 1990’s and has only gotten worse.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-01-23 13:27:32

I’ll confess I did not see that coming; nor did a lot of other people,’ said Larry Murphy, president of Las Vegas-based SalesTraq. ‘I don’t claim to be an expert on Las Vegas housing. I’m a student of the market, and it’s taught me a lot.’”

WHY? Why didn’t you see ‘it’ coming. As a student of the market, you flunk!

Comment by DinOR
2009-01-23 16:39:10

wmbz,

If we rifle through the archives I’m sure we’ll find endless quotes from this oft quoted shill. He certainly considered himself an “expert” then?

I just think it’s important not to let the fate of all these clowns wind up becoming too much of a burden for Non-REIC America. If you’re like me you can find yourself thinking, “Where are all of these guys going to find jobs!?!? What are they going to DO with themselves!?”

And it’s not hard for that to become a little overwhelming. The only way I was able to free myself from it is by realizing most of them weren’t doing anything with their lives -before- the boom!

Comment by wmbz
2009-01-24 03:52:48

“Where are all of these guys going to find jobs!?!? What are they going to DO with themselves!?”

“The only way I was able to free myself from it is by realizing most of them weren’t doing anything with their lives -before- the boom”!

DinOR,

Agreed, I guess these type of people are kinda of like a surfer, they will sit and wait for the next ‘wave’ and hope this one will be the perfect one.

 
 
Comment by bink
2009-01-23 17:25:08

Go back to hockey, Larry. *whoop whoop*

 
 
Comment by North GA Dave
2009-01-23 13:28:12

Thomas Sowell is a smart guy.

“(Affordable housing)…usually boils down to trying to enable people to choose what housing they want first– and then have some law or policy where somebody else, somewhere else, somehow or other, makes that housing ‘affordable’ for them….”

The housing bubble came from the same entitlement mentality. Except that what made it “affordable” was not a law, but magic financing.

Comment by mikey
2009-01-23 15:28:32

Wow…I love that term “magic financing”

It sounds as mysterious, exciting and dangerous as the term “Danger-High Voltage” :)

 
 
Comment by WantsOut
2009-01-23 13:39:34

Massachusetts’ economy unraveled quickly last month as the state shed jobs at a faster pace than the nation and the unemployment rate soared to its highest level in more than 15 years. Over the past two months, the state has shed nearly 40,000 jobs, the worst two months of losses since the recession of the early 1990s. ‘It’s like we’re on a bungee cord,’ said Alan Clayton-Matthews, a professor of public policy at the University of Massachusetts at Boston. ‘We’re free falling, and it’s not clear where the bottom is.’”

Yeah, but they added 500 government jobs. That with a 2Bil plus deficit. WTF!

Comment by DinOR
2009-01-23 16:43:58

Yeah, and it’s all YOUR fault! Had it not been for naysayers like you and everyone simply continued buying homes from each other at ever greater prices NONE of these jobs wouldn’t even be in jeopardy!

( More and more I’m hearing that rationalization ) “If only…”

 
 
Comment by climber
2009-01-23 14:06:36

The problem with Colorado is that it’s buried in the middle of the country, but depends on coastal level incomes to drive house prices. Housing in Colorado is only affordable compared to California. Compared to the states that border it, it’s quite expensive.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-01-23 14:47:39

And, in Colorado, jobs that provide coastal-level salaries are few and far between. Always have been, in fact.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-01-23 18:05:50

Compared to the states that border it, it’s quite expensive.</i?

It depends on location. Boulder and some choice parts of Denver, yes. Aurora, not so much. You can get a pretty decent house in Loveland for about 200K and even less in Greeley.

And, in Colorado, jobs that provide coastal-level salaries are few and far between.

Ain’t that the truth. One often hears stories of out of staters who arrive expecting to be masters of the universe, and end up leaving with their tail between their legs. Its usually the 3rd layoff in less than 2 years that breaks the camel’s back. The Denver Post periodically posts such stories of woe. I personally knew someone in that position. I still remember the remark: “Who would have thought that it would be so hard to earn a living here”

 
 
Comment by skb
2009-01-23 14:30:50

It is ridiculous to me to continually read ” No one saw this coming” statements.
That flimsy, stupid statement should go down in history as the most lame ass excuse ever made.

I remember in 2003 or 2004 someone on the msn money message board asking if there was a housing bubble. I pondered on that statement and didn’t understand what they meant by it. It was shortly after this I found this message board.

I have no degree in anything, I am a average person of average intelligence and back when I found this blog it enabled me to “see it coming”.

If an average person like me can do the research like I did, what can you say about the masses of highly educated people that continue to say ” no-one say this coming.

Makes me afraid to step out of my house, really.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-01-23 16:27:08

On Wednesday evening, I went to a community meeting. The featured speaker was Mike Hein, the city manager for our fair city of Tucson.

Like many other cities, Tucson’s municipal budget ain’t lookin’ too good. Seems that this nasty little recession is really taking a bite outta revenues.

At one point, Mr. Hein said that no one saw this recession coming.

Thinking of all my homies down in the HBB ‘hood, I said, “Yes, they did! A lot of people saw this coming.”

A guy behind me piped up and said that he saw the effects of the recession in his business last year. And I added that it first started knocking on my business door back in 2006.

Mr. Hein didn’t have anything to say in response.

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-01-24 03:53:14

Good job, Arizona Slim. We’re going to hear more and more tales of woe from government units as the recession deepens. I’m sure that some will go bankrupt, as they did in the depression.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-01-23 16:31:05

Very succinct SKB. Thank you.

Comment by DinOR
2009-01-23 16:52:08

Guys,

At this stage of the game every one of these former “industry experts” is crying the same song. Truthfully they had WAY too much pride during the boom, but now it’s boiled down to legal liabilities.

So far the only people that -have- gone down are little guys. They’re desperately trying to distance themselves from their OWN statements! It’s a very conflicted but necessary about face. It’s too late to save face, this is about avoiding doing time.

Comment by (Soon to be ex-) GS fixer
2009-01-23 16:59:24

That’s their story, and they’re sticking to it, come hell or high water.

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Comment by Pullthetrigger?
2009-01-23 17:39:10

‘I don’t think anybody could have predicted that we’d see a 33 percent drop in prices in 2008. I’ll confess I did not see that coming; nor did a lot of other people,’ said Larry Murphy, president of Las Vegas-based SalesTraq.

You hoo, over here! It’s true. They didn’t see it coming, otherwise they’d have gotten out in time. It takes a love of economics history to see clearly. Rather like a gift. On the other hand, right now I’d rather be blissfully ignorant of what is to come. It’s wearing me down and breaking my spirit; especially now that the stakes are so incredibly high. I have very little hope left, and I don’t want to live under martial law, digging in the garbage for food, begging and all those things that come with depressions. Please tell me that it won’t be that bad. Lie to me, but tell me convincing lies. I can’t handle the truth.

Comment by Toast on the Coast, 90803
2009-01-24 00:22:57

Dean Baker from the Center for Economic and policy Research got out in time.
He saw it coming.

 
 
Comment by In Montana
2009-01-23 21:16:48

I found this blog through a link by Mickey Kaus at Slate in 2007. His point was that you have to pay attention to anecdotal evidence because by the time a trend shows up in some economist’s peer-reviewed chart, it’s too late. He was talking about evidence that illegals were leaving for some reason (he thought b/c of enforcement), based on a comment here about their disappearance from the schools in Socal.

I kept on reading a whole mess of anecdotes here and realized that wasn’t all that was happening.

 
Comment by Todd_S
2009-01-23 23:13:30

I’m sure quite a few folks saw this coming and it’s a real shame that nothing was done to stop this mess or at least lessen its impact on the housing market and the economy in general. I found a news segment on YouTube that shows that even some folks in the federal government saw this coming. As early as April of 2001 the Bush Administration’s 2002 budget request mentioned the size of Freddie and Fannie is a “potential problem” and financial trouble in either one could “cause strong repercussions in financial markets.” Boy… almost 8 years ago.

Personally I have been watching the local real esate market for a number of years. At first I thought I might be priced out of the Southern California housing market for years if not for good. But the more I saw the ridiculous price increases, the more it became clear that this pricing could not last. I figured we’d see a stall in price increases as income levels caught up with home prices or pehaps even a bit of a drop. I’ve been of this opinion since probably 2005 or so and started seeing the stall and then the drops over the past year or so. I never imagined we’d see the mess we are now until I started learning more about sub-prime and Alt-A mortgages. That’s when the scope of the house of cards that the was built became even that much more clear to me.

 
Comment by wmbz
2009-01-24 05:48:12

“I have no degree in anything, I am a average person of average intelligence and back when I found this blog it enabled me to “see it coming”.

However you do have common sense, and that will always trump a mountain of degrees IMHO.

 
 
Comment by sm_landlord
2009-01-23 14:46:50

I see that Incline Village is still floating out there in cloud-cuckoo land, based on the listing I found at the link. No SFHs under $2M, condos with asking prices like $1.8M.

Lots of listings, though. People must be realizing that they need to sell now, but are not accepting the new reality of price.

Maybe they’re waiting for the Googlezillionairs to bail them out?

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-01-23 14:47:49

Major developer Rockrose will buy back your condo at 110% after 5 years:

http://www.theviewateastcoast.com/

Comment by WT Economist
2009-01-23 16:56:57

And in the rentals, I’m told, they’ll give you 14 months of rent if you renew for the same rent (the LAST two months are free).

 
Comment by Little Bear
2009-01-23 16:58:42

Not if they’re bankrupt…

Comment by Chip
2009-01-23 20:34:24

Makes you wonder, how many people consider that prospect? Even now.

 
 
 
Comment by shelby
2009-01-23 14:52:34

“Randy Bryant traveled here from Overland Park, Kan., in search of ways to survive the worst downturn he’s seen in the new-home market in the 18 years he’s been a builder. ‘So far, nothing,’ he said yesterday outside Professional Builder magazine’s Show Village Home in the parking lot of Las Vegas’ convention center.”

Sorry Randy, but “OP” as it’s known by the locals is in trouble.

Not too many more Sprint Exec’s willing to stick their necks out & build one of your million dollar Mcmansions.

Especially with one of the highest property taxes in the Country - in Kansas of all places !!

Not (said it your best Borat voice!)

Comment by (Soon to be ex-) GS fixer
2009-01-23 15:56:28

“……$800,000 to 1.5 million…….”

What a freaking moron.

At least you can’t blame this on the Baby-Boomers…….all the playas in the JoCo market are all Gen X-Y Super-Yuppie-wannabes……..on Kansas payscales.

I’m going to go to Arizona, and load up a couple of tractor-trailers full of Joshua Trees, so they can get used to the reaming they are going to receive when Gov Sebelius and Co. get finished addressing the budget shortfall.

Comment by Ian
2009-01-23 16:46:54

Joshua tree national park has better quality LOL.

Comment by milkcrate
2009-01-23 16:49:45

I thought U2 fans dug all of them up and carried them away. :)

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Comment by lavi d
2009-01-23 15:18:08

‘I don’t think anybody could have predicted that we’d see a 33 percent drop in prices in 2008. I’ll confess I did not see that coming; nor did a lot of other people,’

All together now…

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-01-24 00:18:13

I’ll confess that I and a whole lot of posters here saw that coming a couple of years ago. Why does the MSM only interview stupid people and phony experts playing the CYA card? Maybe cause the MSM didn’t see it coming?

 
 
Comment by Nathan in Fresno
2009-01-23 15:26:30

House Republican leaders presented President Barack Obama on Friday with proposals to stimulate the economy that rely exclusively on tax cuts and envision none of the federal spending backed by Democrats and the administration.

The alternative includes across-the-board cuts in the two lowest income tax brackets, placing unemployment benefits off-limits to taxation and a new $7,500 break for home buyers who make a minimum down payment of 5 percent.

Comment by milkcrate
2009-01-23 16:47:05

Well, that’s change. As in, the money paid by taxpayers in the two lowest tiers wouldn’t light a candle, let alone ignite a recovery. And how about a tax break for people who put down 20 percent, who are already pulling the nation’s wagon?
Yeah, I know. That wouldn’t be many people.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-23 18:59:18

yeah.. give tax breaks to people who don’t pay taxes. That’ll help Dems a lot at the voting booths, but has nothing to do with a recovery.

a break for buyers who make….a minimum down payment of 5 percent..
5% is essentially having no skin in the game, and is how we got where we are now.

I foresee (at least) 4 years of anti-change.

Comment by PopGoesBend
2009-01-24 13:01:56

5% down = underwater immediately when you consider the costs of selling the house.

Not good.

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Comment by Chip
2009-01-23 20:37:28

If the Republican leaders have a plan NOW, why didn’t they have one THEN (not that long ago)? Do voting losses stimulate dormant brain cells?

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-23 21:09:36

..rely exclusively on tax cuts and envision none of the federal spending..

The theory that cutting taxes and reducing (or not increasing) spending stimulates a faltering economy is an old GOP tune.. albiet they rarely walked the walk, and I doubt the current situation would be an exception. Conservatism is believed to be unpopular by the current crew.

Imo, conservative ideals could be the source of practical solutions. Shame on us for there being no fiscal conservatives in power in either party.

Comment by varelse
2009-01-24 11:32:10

What I learned by voting GOP the last few elections:

My fiscal political views are not represented by either political party.

I foolishly believed the republicans when they said they got it, they understood. It was a lie to get them elected and nothing else. Like the woman who tells her new boyfriend she loves to watch football…..then after they get married she starts fights with him every Sunday because he wants to watch the games instead of going to his mother in law’s house.

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Comment by varelse
2009-01-24 11:26:33

republicans only act like republicans when they are the minority party. It helps them get back in the majority so they can start acting like drunken sailors with limitless credit cards again.

Comment by Otis Wildflower
2009-01-24 16:07:44

Republican politicians waste money because it makes them popular with their constituencies.

Democratic politicians waste money because they believe in the grace of government.

Operative word here is _politician_. What one espouses as a belief is irrelevant, what matters is what you do once you have access to the public purse. One thing I will give to Democrats is at least they’re not hypocritical about wasting the people’s money. They are hypocritical about other things, perhaps, but there’s no doubt that if you vote for a Democrat, you’re voting for wealth redistribution and arrogating power from states to the central government.

Lately, if you vote Republican, I have no idea what you’re voting for. Creationism? The Troops? What/where are the principles these days?

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Comment by not a gator
2009-01-25 18:48:10

if the Republicans actually supported the troops, I might actually consider voting for them!

 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-01-24 20:04:52

republicans only act like republicans when they are the minority party. It helps them get back in the majority so they can start acting like drunken sailors with limitless credit cards again.

Now that’s a thought-provoking point!

You can even extrapolate that to any party. When they are the minority, they are perhaps well-behaved or at best tamed even if they (Demos) hate it when people achieve their financial dreams. But whan they get majority power they become very destructive and corrupt.

It gives more support for Harry Browne’s “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World” idea of sovereign individualism.

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Comment by jb
2009-01-23 16:36:39

With regard to the Salt Lake condo comments…

Have to chuckle at the comments by Babs De Lay about the condo market. She has been a loud and proud shill for condo developers in downtown Salt Lake. Everyone wants to live there, especially the gay community (yep in downtown Salt Lake), of which she is a very outspoken member.

Now new projects in dumpy areas on the fringe of downtown are just sitting there (many being sold by her).

Love to see a RE pimp like her take it in the rear. :-)

jb

Comment by Chip
2009-01-23 20:38:59

Boy, that’s a new one for me. I thought “they” took it in the front.

Comment by Silverback1011
2009-01-24 03:59:30

I googled her and got a gander at her picture. Oh my. She looks tough even fo a man. Bu she’s a woman.

Comment by not a gator
2009-01-25 19:15:31

old skool dykes: greasy haired auto mechanics (with a box full of Snap-On Tools)

new skool dykes: Realtards???

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Comment by (Soon to be ex-) GS fixer
2009-01-23 16:36:47

New series of “This Old House” started last night. A Brownstone in Brooklyn. This should be a million laughs…..at least when I’m not yelling and throwing stuff at the TV.

JUST ONCE I’d like to see them show some acquisition and budget numbers for these remodels. It would cause a minor earthquake, caused by people simltaneously falling out of their chairs.

I should produce a new series, called “The REAL This Old House”….
I’d use hidden cameras to document the skill and attention to detail the typical, half-lit-by-noon “Independent Contractor” and his ace staff of illegal immigrant framers, roofers, and mud slingers put into their average new build or remodel.

“Beat to Fit…….Paint to Match”

Comment by DinOR
2009-01-23 16:56:14

“half-lit-by-noon”

LOL! Yeah, I know that guy. Can you imagine how much revenue states let slip thru their fingazz by not “profiling” these clowns by their “occupation”? No, not contractor, drunk.

Comment by (Soon to be ex-) GS fixer
2009-01-23 17:14:52

All the local bars get about 80% of their business catering to the local “drinking their lunch” residential contractor crowd.

They are easy to spot…..just look for the white 4×4 F-250/350s out front….or by the mud they track into the place on rainy days. The wait-staff is usually not amused.

A guy I used to know paid his crew cash, plus all the beer they could drink. Threw the empties into the bed of his truck. When the bed got full, they used a backhoe to dig a hole in the backyard of whatever house they were working on, backed the truck up, filled the hole with the empties, then covered the hole.

I’ve always wondered what kind of EPA “Superfund” site those holes would be after 20-30 years.

Comment by Jimbo
2009-01-24 08:14:05

The construction workers employed on various Atlantic City developments over the past 20 years have kept in business the few local taprooms still around. You know, beer for breakfast, liquid lunches, etc. I’ll give these guys some credit though. A few of them were having some eye openers about four years ago when a mugger, who had really brutalized an 85 lbs. asian woman leaving a casino ’round dawn, came barreling through their circle with the woman’s slightly bigger boyfriend in pursuit. The guys figured out what was what and picked up the chase. One of them brought down the mugger by flinging at him a wrench that was about four feet long. Cops arrived; mugger arrested; $8000 recovered. A rare happy ending to a common scenario.

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Comment by (Soon to be ex-) GS fixer
2009-01-23 17:21:32

Never mind the revenues…..
they could have shut down the WHOLE HOUSING BUBBLE if they put every DUI construction worker in the hoosgow.

On the other hand, we might be dealing with a “Gray Rock Hotel” bubble instead.

 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-23 17:31:58

TOH isn’t about being frugal with money.. The high project costs are one reason Bob Vila left.
IIRC he thought there was a disconnect between the viewer and the projects. His new show, Bob Vila’s Home Again, picks affordable projects and makes it a point to disclose costs.

But I’d rather watch an expert crew do necessary prep work and then lay fancy tile.. or retrofit some existing structure with radiant heating.. because i might learn something useful.
Being lectured by Vila about how factory built modular homes save money, energy and the environment doesn’t interest me.

 
Comment by varelse
2009-01-24 11:37:46

Back in the Bob Villa days the in the first episode of a new project they sat down with the homeowner and went through the numbers with them. They discussed what they could and could not afford to do with their budget.

 
 
Comment by sestamibi
2009-01-23 17:33:30

I love Tom Sowell and everything he has ever written, but Mick Jagger came to the same conclusion long before Sowell did.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-01-23 18:34:35

(”Welcome to the Hotel California.)
Such a lovely place. (Such a lovely place.)
Such a lovely face.
There’s plenty of room at the Hotel California.
Any time of year (any time of year),
You can find it here.” ……..

You can checkout any time you like,
But you can never leave!”

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-01-23 18:45:24

Ben, how much money do I have raise for HBB for you to enable the barf gif?

With all the TARP, leaky implant, and “nobody-saw-this-coming” talk, we need it more than ever.

:barf:

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-01-23 19:03:59

There was a Bloomberg TV online story the otherday, about how stock dividends eventually due to the government from TARP money stock investments was already due.. one bank owed it’s entire years profit.. another owes 50% of it.
Evidently TARP is not a free ride.

Comment by Chip
2009-01-23 20:41:34

Sounds like a hot date, gone wrong. Country music loves this stuff.

 
 
 
Comment by fries with that?
2009-01-23 18:54:34

A builder with offices near me recently filed for Chapter 11. At least I can admire the optimism of the owner:

The Chapter 11 filing “should provide Wall Homes with the opportunity to strengthen our balance sheet and develop an even more efficient expense structure,” Wall said in a statement.

The full article from the Star-Telegram makes for interesting reading.

Apparently, businesses that rely on large amounts of debt to fund continuing operations are going to find it tough to survive–and that’s a lot of businesses.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-01-23 20:09:58

“We cannot all go around buying whatever we want, whether or not we have enough money to afford it, and have somebody else make up the difference. For society as a whole, there is no somebody else. But of course political slogans are not meant to be thought through, are they? They are often an emotional substitute for thinking at all.”

Gee, politics and religion appear to have so much in common!

But seriously, I am happy to hear another soul rant about the absurdity of the whole affordable housing concept — especially the astute observation that making housing affordable for group A may have the unintended consequence of making it unaffordable for group B, especially if group B is saddled by some harebrained government scheme with the cost of making housing affordable to group A. Perhaps the concept of the macroeconomic budget constraint will eventually catch on, even if it has to trickle up to academic economics from grass roots common sense observations like this writer made.

Comment by Chip
2009-01-23 20:45:30

Zinks vill be different in ze USSA, comrade. Mark my vords on zat. Iff you don’t mind, by ze vay, may I zee your papers, pleese?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-01-24 00:28:40

Oops — silly me, the writer is an academic economist (Milton Friedman student) and very pleasantly outspoken :-)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-01-24 00:15:38

RE: “The Craziness of the Era” — Does it seem to anyone besides me like the more money Megabank, Inc throws into the toilet, the more qualified they become for more bailout funds to throw down the toilet? I am trying to figure out how my household might qualify as a bank in trouble, as I could sure use some rescue funds of my own…

Wall Street Journal

* JANUARY 23, 2009, 3:29 A.M. ET

Pressure Grows for More Rescue Funds
By JONATHAN WEISMAN and DEBORAH SOLOMON

WASHINGTON — The White House’s economic team is under pressure from Congress to finalize its financial rescue plan within a week amid a growing realization among lawmakers that they will have to find extra money to fund the new administration’s program.

The team is hammering out a three-pronged approach that focuses on stemming foreclosures, revamping the government’s bailout program and purchasing toxic assets weighing down bank balance sheets and pressuring stock prices. White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Thursday the plan will be completed “shortly.”

The scale of the effort is almost certain to be larger than the $350 billion secured last week through the Troubled Asset Relief Program. Lawmakers say that means they need a proposal from the White House within days so they can appropriate more money. Congress could do that by either attaching the funds to the economic-stimulus plan already totaling $825 billion, or by approving legislation that expands TARP and includes new restrictions on banks that receive money.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-01-24 00:33:52

“Twelve months later, the condo market is upside-down. It’s a buyer’s market — except there are no buyers. Sales ‘went from full throttle to a standing halt,’ said Babs De Lay, a downtown real estate agent.”

To me, the most amazing aspect of the housing bust is just how long and far down things can go. Anyone who has driven on I-5 across the highest point in the San Gabriel Mountains north of LA all the way down to the coast at Dana Point has experienced the driving analogue of the housing market correction that is currently underway.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-01-26 18:26:14

“Homes have always led us out of a downturn and housing will lead us through this recovery, as well,’ he said.”

Seeing as this NARLiar doesn’t provide any evidence of this assertion, can anyone confirm or deny that housing has been the basis of a business cycle with the exception of the bubble genesis circa 2001?

 
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