Housing Prices Drive ‘Exodus’: Census Bureau
Several reports on the Census findings. “Americans are leaving the nation’s big cities in search of cheaper homes and open spaces. Nearly every large metropolitan area had more people move out than move in from 2000 to 2004, according to a report being released today by the Census Bureau.”
“(Professor) Richard Florida said smaller, wealthier households are replacing larger families in many big metropolitan areas. That drives up housing prices even as the population shrinks, chasing away even more members of the middle class. ‘Because they are bidding up prices, they are forcing some people out to the exurbs and the fringe,’ Florida said. ‘Other people are forced to make moves in response to that.’”
“The metropolitan area that attracted the most new residents was Riverside, Calif., which has been siphoning residents from Los Angeles for years. ‘When you look at housing prices in Southern California, along the beaches and coastlines, you’re able to obtain a very large home for a much lower price’ in Riverside, said Cindy Roth, president and CEO of the Greater Riverside Chambers of Commerce.”
“Massachusetts lost more residents than it attracted in recent years, at a greater rate than any other state but New York, according to Census Bureau. With an average annual exodus of 42,402 people. That amounts to a rate of 6.6 people leaving the state per 1,000, second only to New York’s rate of 9.6 residents per 1,000 during that period.”
“Demographers pointed to the region’s precipitous loss of high-tech jobs and the continued high cost of housing as factors driving Massachusetts residents elsewhere. ‘I think that’s plaguing a lot of the country, these go-go places of the late ’90s, especially those with the high-tech components and persistent high housing costs,’ said William H. Frey.”
“‘There’s much more of a consciousness now that ‘if I move to such and such a place, I can get a house or a much bigger house,’ Marc J. Perry said. ‘Those who leave a high-cost area are those who are cashing out and those who never cashed in,’ said Perry.”
“In New York City, the counties that make up the five boroughs, except for Staten Island, were also among the top 25 counties with large annual population losses. But only Brooklyn and Queens, each of which lost 55,000 annually to other states, also made the list with the highest rates of population loss.”
“Soaring prices in some Florida cities could slow or reverse the net migration there. Anecdotal evidence suggests that some retirees are moving to areas in Tennessee, Kentucky and western North Carolina that are considered safer, cheaper and less crowded. ‘We call them halfbacks,’ says Perry. ‘They move all the way down to Florida from the North and then move halfway back.’”
taxpayers cough up $ 5k for you to move to DC
they’re asking for 10k soon- and the sheople won’t even bitch
Sure you can buy a bigger house in Riverside, but unfortunately that means you actually have to live in Riverside. Currently, that makes no sense whatsoever. Go rent somewhere close to where you work in a decent area and wait for things to decline by about 40%. Life’s too short to buy an overpriced tract home in Riverside and have to commute about an hour (if lucky) into LA each way.
Way more than an hour. Way, way more than an hour. I commute from Alhambra (right on the border of the City of LA) to Beverly Hills and my morning commute is one hour, ten minutes to one hour, twenty minutes in order to get to work at 9:00 a.m. On a really good day it’s an hour. The return commute is much shorter becuase I leave work late in the evening, usually around 7 or 7:30.
Anyone in Riverside/SB/etc. has a minimum two hour commute each way. Minimum. Probably more like 2.5-3 hours. When I have to go to Riverside in the morning, I travel east on the 10 and it sitll takes me 50 minutes with no traffic. It’s always jammed in the westbound direction from just after Pomona all the way to the 405 on the LA/Santa Monica border.
I literally cannot understand why anyone would live in Riverside and commute to LA. I’d sooner move to Somalia than endure that commute.
and the choo choo takes just as long, seeing as how you are on your own from union station
remember all those trains that crossed LA back in the early 1900’s? you could train from seal beach to simi valley, and all points between. goodyear? and GM came in and bought up the right-of-ways, tore down the lines, and gave us busses. talk about hosing one of earth’s great cities. now you can catch a train in LA that might get you 2/3 of the way to your destination. i await correction from a true LA historian, but i believe this is a pretty good summary of what happened
GM? let ‘em burn
The GM conspiracy theory is nonsense, at least as far as the Red Cars went. The Pacific Electric’s passenger service never turned a profit — it was a loss leader to draw attention to its lucrative freight service. The PE itself was lobbying to be permitted to abandon lines as early as the 1920s. (Railroads were regulated, so they had to ask permission, which was slow in coming). And GM never bought the PE right-of-ways. You can look it up. (Wikipedia on “Pacific Electric” has a good article.) The lines were gradually sold off to other railroads, and finally to the MTA, which ran them for about a decade before converting to buses. One of the biggest problems was that the lines were at grade, which meant that as LA grew more dense, the trolleys were slowed by increasing auto traffic, lowering speeds and turning off customers.
LA and Orange County are actually doing pretty well at rebuilding rail transit. I never drive to LA for court appearances anymore — the Metrolink and Red Line get me from Santa Ana (20-minute drive, easy, even during rush hour, from Costa Mesa) to the Civic Center in about an hour. If you work in Downtown, the Red Line is actually really convenient, and the Metrolink trains are wicked better than Amtrak, assuming some nutcase doesn’t park his car on the tracks, derail the train, and mangle you.
yes and no.
the gm thing is urban legend? i’ve no problem with that. you are particularly lucky with your route. i can’t agree that the trains are by any stretch convenient. it bypasses LAX and lets you off at costco, 3 miles away. another line ends at McCarthur park, which is fine if you’re a mugger reporting for work. and of course the north hollywood destination is quite useless. that train needs to run clear into camarillo. in hindsight, city planners would have been wise to tunnel streets under or build over these lines.
I thought there’d been an extension to the Green Line that got you somewhere closer to LAX. The big problem with that line is that the Norwalk station is a ways from the Metrolink Norwalk station, which makes no sense at all. Otherwise, you could hop a Metrolink train from either the Valley or OC and get to LAX without dealing with the traffic.
Re: Camarillo, Metrolink’s Ventura County line has a station there. I do agree that the Red Line stop in North Hollywood is inefficient — they ought to extend that line a few more miles to the Burbank Metrolink station, which would open up a whole lot more territory. (As it is, if you want to ride rail from the Valley or Ventura to Hollywood or mid-Wilshire, you have to go all the way into Union Station, then backtrack a long way.)
And there needs to be service to Santa Monica. Fortunately, LA is actually working on that. The Aqua Line is scheduled to start construction this year, providing service from downtown though Exposition Park and Culver City and eventually to Santa Monica.
The basic problem is that LA grew up as a gazillion little cities, as each of the land promotors from the 1887 land rush tried to set up his own town. So the place is naturally dispersed, and hard to serve without cars. The freeways were the most efficient way to solve the transportation problem. The new problem is that the freeways are clogged, which is why I’m willing to take a slightly more roundabout rail route to get places.
MTA is working on plans to extend the Green Line to the airport, and Villarigosa is promising to extend the Red Line to Santa Monica. The Wilshire Corridor is the densest place West of Manhattan, and it one of the few places where rail actually makes sense.
Unfortunately, this will cost billions of dollars. I would love to have a good subway/rail system, but unfortunately, it doesn’t make economic sense. According to Reason and Cato, which some people would discount because of their clear Libertarian bent, light rail is a waste of money and we would all be better off by expanding bus service and increasing the use of toll roads (like in OC) and toll lanes (like the 91).
Having researched the problem, I tend to agree.
My commute time from Manhattan Beach to downtown: about one hour to go 20 miles. Only about half an hour when I come home.
Why do I think that the Ethyl Corp bought up the right of way???
same thing happened in NYC….GM and other car companies bribed robert moses (city planner in NYC for decades who was more powerful than the mayor) to build ugly new highways like the LIE and the cross bronx expressway, devastating what were vibrant, thriving immigrant communities in the outer boroughs. I think moses also tore down the old penn station in NYC….
Myth all myth. Why won’t people learn before repeating? The places where NCL went in had trolley service longer than the places where it didn’t.
cuz it’s fun to pass along urban legends.
like the escaped looney from camirillo who left his hook in the keyhole of the couple making out on mulholland drive
If was your mom and dad that found the bloody hook like mine did you wouldn’t be so cheery. Shudder.
Yup, if you happen to start & stop your commute at the ends of the rail line, it’ s pretty cool. for the other 99% of us, it is a sorry excuse for anything, much less an urban transportation system. I grew up in a town (PHX) that had only bus service, and sucky service at that. Live in the OC for 20 now. travelled to other cities — london, boston, etc. by comparison, IT WAS PARADISE. LA’s rail system was done by fools and idiots. Add in the bus service. I actually live within walking distance of the Tustin station, and work 2 blocks from another station. Do you think I could ride the train? NNNOOOO. The only one I can get in the morning is at 9am, and return is at 4. Don’t think the boss will go for that.
My work is located in Rancho Bernardo with another office in Santa Monica. One of my coworkers used to commute from Riverside to Santa Monica and said it took him about 2.5 hours each way every day. One day he decided to come to the San Diego office for a visit. He was shocked to find out it took him just over an hour to get here from Riverside. From that point on, he commutes to San Diego instead.
Is anyone out there worried about commuting by car four hours round trip when gas prices hit $4.00 to $5.00 a gallon? Or do the jobs pay so much that it doesn’t matter. I wouldn’t want all the wear and tear on my vehicle.
In Westchester, NY, we are blessed with Metro North. There’s a map at http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/mnr/html/mnrmap.htm. To give you an idea, Goldn’s Bridge is an hour from Grand Central Terminal. You always get a seat and the crowd on the train is very civilized. Napping or laptopping, it can’t be beat.
Blessed? Try suckling off the government teat as a better description. Metro North consumes hundreds of millions in tax dollars for the benefit of a select rich few.
Well, first of all it’s not free. You pay about $200 a month for a monthly commuter ticket, depending on where you come in from. Assuming 20 days of commuting per month - that’s $10 a day or $5.00 each way. If you just buy a peak roundtrip for the day it might be $10 each way. How much more should it be?
Secondly, these folks generally make good incomes and pay a lot more in taxes. So shouldn’t they get something back for their disproportionately high tax payments?
While almost all mass transit in the U.S. is subsidized by state and city taxes, Metro North ranks # 1 in the nation on fares as a Percentage of operating expenses. (55%) See: http://www.patransit.org/information/funding.htm By contrast, Los Angeles County Metro Transit (LACMTA is 27%.
Do you honestly think people would just build mass transit without government’s help? Should government not be trying to jumpstart a bit of sanity in terms of commutation?
Every person who takes Metro North rather than their car is making the better environmental move.
Call it lucky, or call it blessed. It is what it is and other municipalities would be wise to use their tax dollars wisely as well. It’s a lot more efficient than funding English as a Second Langiuage and other governmental follies.
What a steaming pile of Metro North propoganda. Metro North isn’t even in the top 5 among the best performing transit agencies in the nation. On an operating basis, and we are talking operating basis as we’ll see below even the WMATA does better. Anyway you ask an EXCELLENT question, one I answer all the time. How much should the fare be to break even? Good old 2078, that’s the number of Metro-North. 72,617,899 trips, $1,127,128,675 spent. $15.52 per trip, one way trip. And what is the aveage fare? Tain’t the royal $5 you cite. Tis the princely $5.55 so the simple answer to your question is a $10 surcharge for every boarding and/or transfer in addition to regular fares. I’m not sure you realise the magnitude of this boondoggle. Care to report an extra $5,000 of unreported income on your 1040A? As you note the Metro-North riders are upscale. So deserving in a country that begrudges deductibility of medical expenses for sick children. And it isn’t “most” it is all transit in the US is massively subsidized. This is money that subtracts from the nations wealth, it is so horrificily expensive that it sucks the very life from rational transporttion policy. Sucking of the teat isn’t strong enough. Blood sucking parasite is more like it. Of course you can take the moral high ground by tossing in an extra quick $10 bill every time you flash your pass so I am looking forward to your reply.
Screw that ,if you can only afford to live in Riverside, San Bernadino or Bakersfield why not move to a place like New Mexico, Georgia, North Carolina. At least you can live like a person instead of a slave to traffic and a mortgage. What is this delusion people have about California being so great. Yeah if you are rich and can live in a decent area close to where you work Cal. is nice but Riverside? damn.
Some of it is really, really beautiful. But a non-native moves there and finds herself in a seriously dysfunctional relationship…
hey, worse than that. My office is in mid-oc (anaheim). We had one schmoo coming in from friggin Apple Valley/Hesperia. People, sniff a clue & get a life.
yeah, california is overrated. sure there are really nice places, and the weather is great, but like others have said, unless you’re VERY wealthy the bad outweighs the good. i came to LA from Raleigh NC for a “high paying” (not really considering cost of living) job. i’ll be heading back to a place like NC in the near future. and riverside? common - nothing special about that place at all, the whole inland empire is just depressing.
People have been making the long commute from the Bay Area to Sacramento for the past several years, just in order to buy a house. I thought they were crazy. But the upside is that these folks are now $200-300k richer, and that commuting time turned out to be a pretty good part-time job. Plus, a lot of them hope to eventually find employment in Sacto, and some probably will, over the next several years.
This was highlighted on the morning news in San Diego this morning. They even pointed out that it was due to high housing costs.
I say: “San Diego condos for everyone!”
It’s funny that this is out because increase in population in NY is one of the things people around here are always screaming about when asked to give good reasons for rising housing prices. It will only get worse when the boomers realize that the retirement money they have saved in their homes will amount to nothing if looking to downsize. They’ll either rent, which I doubt, or be forced to move away.
An RE agent called my wife last night because she visited an open house last week. My wife said we are really not in the market now and may be considering a move to Raleigh, NC. She said that she has lost a number of clients who searched Northern NJ and decided to leave the area. She then admitted that she was considering such a move herself, because she was priced out. She left off by saying that if we do decide to stay, there are “tons of houses coming on the market now”.
Move. I had the good fortune of living in North Carolina for ten years. I’ll probably move back there once I get my kids into college.
My sister lives in NJ and I was visiting last weekend. My brother-in-law told me that he “can’t wait to get the hell out of New Jersey” and that his own parents told him it would be a good idea to leave. Not only are home prices too high, but property taxes and car insurance are insane.
My other sister bought a home in Bridgewater last summer, right at the top of the market, for $1m. Tried to talk her out of it, but no dice. The place had been on the market for over six months and she didn’t even lowball the offer - offered full list price. Now her taxes are $16K/yr and she told me that her heating bill for Dec was $800. Not only that, but the home needs new everything - floors, paint, fixtures, tile, etc. She figures it’s at least $150K. I have no idea where she’s going to come up with that. The house is probably twice the size they need for a family of four. Unfortunately, they’ll be stuck in it for a long, long time.
Unfortunately, they’ll be stuck in it for a long, long time.
Not likely.
There is an increase in population in NYC due to immigrants. The census study only took into account internal migration.
That makes sense, but none of them can afford anything around NYC, except in less than stellar areas.
they can’t even afford to live in those places!
Actually I believe the study mentioned the fact that immigrants are coming in, then promptly leaving to cheaper places. This is why you see huge immigrant migrations to the midwest. There are still lots of immigrants here, but fewer are staying.
My family has had nothing but trouble with immigrants ever since we came to this country….
“My family has had nothing but trouble with immigrants ever since we came to this country….”
You are awesome!
This ballpark is so crowded nobody comes here anymore.
Yogi Berra
Hey Boo Boo, what’s in that pickanick basket?
Yogi Bear
Acch - I Yogi’d –hahaha! I stand dissected — well if you want to know what I meant instead of what I said -this is from Times story yesterday:
Mr. Perry cited another contributing factor in New York: the mobility of immigrants who arrive from abroad and later move elsewhere.
“In the New York area, the pool of new immigrants at risk of moving somewhere else is much bigger than it was,” he said.
Some of those foreign-born migrants might also have been motivated by housing costs.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/20/us/20census.html?ex=1145678400&en=ca95a0c1cbb4804c&ei=5087%0A
And here is the ugliest symptom of the liquidity/housing bubble and boomer retirement fantasies. The issue isn’t that metro areas are losing population. The problem lies at the destination of these monsters. The complete and utter destruction of rural areas by city migrants is sickening. And the behavior of these heathens can only be described as arrogant, belligerent and selfish. Here in VT and upstate NY, the scumbags from NJ/NYC/CT and Mass(hole) have created the very ugliness they seek to escape from by virtue of their presence here. Their toxic effect upon the culture will beget crime, gambling and consumerism.
so when are you signing up for al quaeda?
Sadly, I can understand where the_lingus is coming from and I grew up in the NYC area. Unfortuntely, my husband and I are having issues even deciding where to live around here, because people are so arrogant and materialistic. We’re not perfect, but having come from nice areas one could describe as “affluent”, we have both come to realize that these kinds of areas don’t often breed kindness or a sense of community, but pressure to be rich, have the most, etc. Now, they’re not all bad, by any means, but I can see the attitude he’s talking about and it worries me, most especially with regards to my future offspring.
Now, one could also argue that this symptom is not limited to metro areas, but America in general, which is a pretty sad commentary on us, huh?
NYC-area is a land of extremes. Basically, if you want to live someplace nice, you have to deal with all of the hotshots and snobs. If you want to avoid these types, you’re gonna be stuck with semi-ghetto conditions or a very long commute to work (assuming you work in Manhattan).
On the bright side, just because there are a lot of snobs in your area doesn’t mean you have to be one too. There are plenty of successful people who are modest and tasteful.
Very true skep-tic. I think I turned out ok, after all.
We’re balancing now - long commute + nice place to live or short commute + ghetto…or renting another year and seeing who can get a job in North Carolina first:)
I say: “Don’t Jersey Vermont!”
Don’t Jersey Vermont!
Friday, March 24 2006 @ 11:39 AM EST
Contributed by: Anonymous
Brattleboro Planning Commission hosts “Don’t Jersey Vermont!”
Please join the Brattleboro Planning Commission from 7-9 PM on Monday night, March 27th in the Brattleboro Municipal Building for an evening with Noelle MacKay, Executive Director of the Vermont Forum on Sprawl.
Noelle’s talk “Don’t Jersey Vermont!” will highlight current trends in land use development in Vermont and New Jersey and examine the costs associated with strip development, large lot development and rural fragmentation.
She will discuss proposed legislation that the Vermont Forum on Sprawl is working on in Montpelier as well as tools that Brattleboro can utilize now to strengthen the community. Following refreshments, the second half of the evening will be a discussion with Noelle on lessons for Brattleboro.
Noelle comes to the Vermont Forum on Sprawl from the Watershed Association in New Jersey, where she was the Deputy Director. She directed The New Jersey Project for Municipal Excellence, which built partnerships between municipal officials and environmental advocates to improve the protection of water and related environment resources. As a result of her work, the Association earned the New Jersey Achievement in Planning Award from the New Jersey Planning Officials.
A native of Nova Scotia, Noelle received her undergraduate degree from Mount Allison University in New Brunswick, and graduate degree in environmental studies from Dalhousie University in Halifax. As part of her graduate program, she worked on watershed management issues in West Sumatra, Indonesia.
- Jim Mullen, Brattleboro Planning Director
Oh yeah, just what Brattleboro needs…The transplanted NJ environmental bureaucrat. Back door NIMBYism at it’s worst.
Hey, I got mine…time to close the door. In the meantime I’m gonna permit you, latecomers to death. Want to put a set of steps on your camp…stand in line and file your paperwork. However, if your from urban “proper”, and have the right connections, you’ll be fine.
These parasites make ya sick.
every state has its annoying elements. NY/NJ/CT has hotshots and snobs; VT has bizarre hillbillies and annoying hippies. just depends on which groups annoy you the least
If Vermont wants to see really horrendous sprawl, send them to Northern Virginia for a weekend. When they toss up a development, they bulldoze every single tree, grade every bump out of the terrain, and then cram it with townhouses, McMansions, tiny contractor trees, and strip malls. Every building is some pale shade of gray or cream, and they are architecturally indistinct. The whole area has a feeling of sterile artificiality, like a movie set.
When I have driven around parts of South Burlington or Williston, Vermont - I think “suburban northern Virginia.”
Same crap everywhere, it seems.
hd -
Re: “Back door NIMBYism at it’s worst”
Agreed. But I think that’s all that Vermont is left with - what is the alternative?
I do find it ironic that a New Jersey-Canadian is now trying to “protect” Vermont. Often, instead of protecting it from outsiders, the newcomers instead “protect it” from the natives. As you point out, the natives don’t like that (like trampling over property rights).
On the other hand, perhaps occasionally this “protection” keeps a commercial real estate developer from “downcountry” from paving over forever something that never should be.
Isn’t Souter from Vermont??
SCJ Souter I presume. NH. Who cares….
Right after you cease engaging in herd mentality and recover from a mountain of debt. ……… I guess that would be never huh?
Sadly, that does seem to be the road we’re taking. Nothing seems to be able to snap us out of it…
not sure I get it…. I have no debt.
No, I don’t either, but most Americans do.
i was responding to the_lingus’ answer to my question above, but I am happy that you don’t have debt either.
Grim truths almost always elicit cowardly replies. [shrug]
Gambling??
Geez, I had noooo idea it was that bad!
gee wiz. Let me guess…. you’re a gambling apologist?
What the hell does gambling have to do with the cost of housing? And I don’t gamble (not even nickle, dime, quarter poker) but so what. If you complaints about the decay of society (as you see it) and your NIMBYism are a reflection of the good people of your community, then I’d just as soon have those fakers, posers and losers out here in LA. At least they are consistent.
If you can’t see the how excess liquidity influences (over)development and behavior, then trust me…. you are no lawyer. But you might make a good liar.
I bet he eats sugar too!!! Preach on, brother Lingus!
So Lingus, what do you think is a good solution to the illegal immigrant problem?
The newt gingrich solution. Require all businesses to validate documentation of new employees. Fines if they don’te comply.
My first response didn’t show. Anyways, the Newt Gingrich proposal that requires businesses to validate documentation of new hires and fines if employing illegals would work very well.
What do you think we ought to do with 12,000,000 illegals already here??
ehh… Scroll up. Read. Apply what you read. = answer.
So, I’ll assume Lingus wants to send them all back to Mexico:
“The problem lies at the destination of these monsters. The complete and utter destruction of rural areas by city migrants (Illegal immigrants) is sickening. And the behavior of these heathens can only be described as arrogant, belligerent and selfish.”
They’re very territorial too. Once they infest a neighborhood, they send their young sons out to mark their territory with spray paint or graffiti. Crime increases as roaming gangs instill fear into the neigborhood. Locals leave the area in droves. Ultimately, the illegals desire to reclaim what they believe is their ancestral home, i.e. Southern California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas.
Amnesty. I’m all for complete, sweeping amnesty. No questions asked, blanket pardons with promises of no consequences of past immigration transgressions. Fine, amnesty is not permission to continue breaking the law. Would you all now kindly line up here as we arrange transportation back to the last border you illegally crossed. What? You want to -keep- your ill gotten gains? Excellent, no problem. Let’s see now, that’s Federal, State, local…. What’s that you say? You worked for less than minimum wage? That part is covered by immigration amnesty. We can’t undermine or allow be undermined our social safety net no matter how ill exectuted.
You get it. It is a fundamental abrogation of everything this country believes in to allow them to stay. Even compassion and morality dictate that we not dilute their homelands of these hard working peoples.
You nailed it today Robert! “It is a fundamental abrogation of everything this country believes in to allow them to stay.”
Have you seen
ToiletBrushProtest.com
They’re sending toilet brushes to amnesty supporting politicians. Better than protesting in the hot sun…
We are the only nation in the history of the world that has had it’s ethnic and lingual makeup changed without being conquered by an invading enemy.
Just let them in and let them stay so the rich can get stone patio work done affordably. Show them the door.
1)Put the Army on the border2) Build the wall 3) No health care or education for their spawn. No English as a second language 4) No automatic citizenship for children of illegals 5) No food stamps or welfare. No SSI or disability from Soc Sec 6) Fine employers big time for hiring- no business deduction for wages. All this for a start. When they can’t get jobs they’ll leave.7) No transfer of money back to their country of origin.Deputise all the Minutemen. Put the Sheriff of Maricopa County in charge. Shoot to kill.
LMAO, I read this after seeing on CNN they have arrested 1200 illegals in 26 states. I guess some pretty powerful folks are reading this blog.
Gee Pismobear, guess you’ve had enough of that SLO tree hugger, liberal feel good stuff huh?
i do find it a paradox that mexico has sealed their southern border and treats harshly those that enter illegally from central america. they are robbed, raped and beaten by the mexican patrols as a matter of routine.
The word you’re looking for is hypocrisy. There’s nothing paradoxical about it.
These same pukes have taken over the ME coast, and are doin’ their damndest to get rid of the lobsterman and those who make their living from the sea. Seems the smell from lobster bait and diesel engines of a working waterfront doesn’t appeal to their “urban” sensitivities.
Azzholes foul their own nest, and then come to the north country and pull their NIMBY crap. But’s that’s OK. Sit in your stupid home on the bay ’cause that’s all ya got-the locals detest your azz. Always have…always will.
Pukes…. I like it. Perfect description. HDMan…. Check out this post on a forum I found today. Disregard the politics. This guy really speaks the truth based on experience.
http://boards.billmaher.com/showpost.php?p=673173&postcount=13
I was surprised that Lingus would agree with a “RepubliKKKan” (Newt) as he describes them. Lingus, apparently you’ve been in the food service industry. Have you really spat on the food of those your serving?? “This guy really speaks the truth based on (my) experience.” You’ve got a lot of hate in you pal.
I bet the food service guy hacking the loogie in the NJ slimeballs food was a republiKKKan. Most repukes don’t have sense enough to vote with their wallet.
Beware the loogie!
I need a loogie sniffing dog now. Homeland Security just changed the alert level to light green.
Funny you mention this, I just found this article today in the Forecaster. It;s exactly what you just said.
Brochure introduces working waterfront
By Lori Eschholz
HARPSWELL – A new brochure that will be distributed to real estate offices and restaurants seeks to inform would-be residents of the sights, sounds and smells of a working waterfront before they move to town.
Elsa Martz, who worked on the brochure with other residents, said the hope is that the brochure will cut down on complaints from new residents and help the town maintain its rural character.
“They move in and they want to make it just like Connecticut,” Martz said.
Harpswell isn’t the only fishing town to try to take a proactive approach to tackling the issue. The brochure is modeled after one from Moosabec, a fishing community in Washington County. Judy East and Cheryl Daigle, who created the Moosabec brochure, helped Harpswell with its brochure, too.
Harpswell borrowed the format of Moosabec’s brochure, which is organized according to the five senses and what someone might experience living in a working waterfront community.
The Harpswell brochure says that the waterfront town may be picturesque, but potential property owners should be prepared to have their views interrupted by stored fishing gear and all-night overhead lights.
“We want people to know that it’s not just what’s in the real estate section,” Martz said.
It also warns that fishermen start their days early, with boats and trucks starting up as early as 3 a.m. And it warns that lobster traps drying in the sun and bait buckets can smell bad.
The brochure also touches on a “sixth sense,” which it calls common sense. It urges new residents to embrace the town’s rural character and preserve traditional routes to waterfront access.
“Critical rights of access to the waterfront are often based on custom, not on legal grounds. Too often these traditional access points are closed off without any warning, thus straining the fabric of our community,” it says.
The idea for the brochure came from a working waterfronts planning process in 2004. One of the recommendations from that process was to educate the community about what it is like to live on a working waterfront, Martz said.
Three residents – Martz, Bernice Kenney and Charlie Saunders – worked with Town Planner Jay Chace to produce the brochure. It was printed with grant funds from Maine Sea Grant and the State Planning Office’s Maine Coastal Program.
Lori Eschholz can be reached at 373-9060 ext. 110 or leschholz@theforecaster.net.
http://www.theforecaster.net/story.php?storyid=5923
“The brochure also touches on a “sixth sense,” which it calls common sense.”
Find ONE imported maggot from NJ/CT/NYC with a hint of anything that can be described as common sense and I’ll stand on my head and spit jellybeans.
My common sense tells me that you are a petty, pachouli smelling excuse of a man who is obsessed with this topic because of your envious desires to be like them yet you cannot admit it because of your self-loathing. Get off the damn computer and produce some overpriced maple syrup like a true Vermonter before some rich douchebag decides to make a ridiculously overpriced offer to bulldoze your wigwam and put up a McMansion. You would sell out in second so five it an effin’ rest.
Couldn’t have said it better TheGuru. One word comes to mind for Lingus: Punk.
Ahh yes. Here we have a NJ/CT/NYC/Masshole parasite, clearly a target of my wrath, desperately looking for any type of cover. But he can’t find it and the truth hits him hard and he’s enraged because of it. And look everyone! Fred is attached to his scrotum…… Pathetic…
I disagree. Lingus is one of the sharpest posters there is and probably has the most cutting wit. Maybe you would sell out, but don’t assume Lingus would. You assume that Lingus is envious. What about taking what he says at face value? There is no question that compared to Vermonters and other northern New England natives, New Yorkers can be very loud, rude and pushy. Like the time up here when Martha Stewart was standing on a line at a store, got tired of waiting and barked “do you know who I am?”
As for selling out, I know folks up in northern Maine with amazing views of Mt. Katahdin who have been approached by outsiders wanting to buy their land saying “name your price”. Well, guess what, the land wasn’t for sale at any price because it had more meaning than money.
Sorry, never been to your neck of the woods. Not sure I would want to visit based on my impression of Lingus. I can understand the resentment though, we call ‘em LA flatlanders. Anyone who would spit in someone’s food is a punk.
“I can understand the resentment though, we call ‘em LA flatlanders.”
In light of that statement, clearly your half hearted retorts to my posts are due to some other demon you have lurking. Hmmm…. I’m guessing you’re a republikkkan.
Hi Lingus, you’ll enjoy this anecdote about upstate: I was in our community’s middle school waiting for someone when I started looking at the faculty photo.
I was a little blown away to notice all the faces were white and I mean white Caucasian. We did not have 1 minority teacher at all in our whole jr high. Talk about living in a bubble! And really there are very few minority residents. I think the town makes people (actually most outsiders) so uncomfortable, they soon leave.
Don’t you still count Portogees??
good work, ben.
The crass desire of materialism is rampant across the USA- it is worse in California- followed by the NYC area (including No NJ LI, and into Fairfield CT, then the DC megaplex and then Boston. I am really amazed by many of these ‘contemporary Americans’ in their huge SUV’s expenisve clothes, Gray Goose vodka and Mini Mansions which many cannot afford. In eastern Connecticut we have some these ‘new age material girls/boys’ but for the most part they are few and far between.
Their arrogance is stunning- and their ability to care for another living thing is at best non existent- sad.
MATERIALISM REIGNS IN PALM BEACH COUNTY FLORIDA! I.E. BOCA RATON etc!
I’m not sure it’s all materialism. I’d better classify it as consumerism. Even the 40k/yr wage slave can play bigshot by way of easy credit. We’re seeing it nearly everywhere. And at their own economic peril.
As the goddess Molly Ivins would say, “All hat and no cattle.”
Ahh, you speak of the Sport Utilitarians. The people who only want “the best”. Whereas you or I might describe our refigerator as “cold”, theirs they describe as “spectacular”. These are the Sub-Zero and Viking stovers. They are the chosen. Buy a Hummer not to get out of a jam in the snow, but for that moment at a stoplight in the Hamptons, a person in the next car looks at you, you look back anfd think, “do you know who I Fk’n am?”.
A house is not so much a place to live, but rather the supreme way of saying Fck You. Bourgeois Bohemians with Balsamic Dreams. Sharks swimming with each other. They eat their own young.
Guess what guys - everyone dies broke.
Ahh, you speak of the Sport Utilitarians. The people who only want “the best”. Whereas you or I might describe our refigerator as “cold”, theirs they describe as “spectacular”. These are the Sub-Zero and Viking stovers. They are the chosen. Buy a Hummer not to get out of a jam in the snow, but for that moment at a stoplight in the Hamptons, a person in the next car looks at you, you look back anfd think, “do you know who I Fk’n am?”.
A house is not so much a place to live, but rather the supreme way of saying Fck You. Bourgeois Bohemians with Balsamic Dreams. Sharks swimming with each other. They eat their own young.
Guess what guys - everyone dies broke.
Hey, I know these people. Except I ran away from them in the Bay Area only to find their cousins in Orange County.
In the Bay Area, all the “Sport Utilitarians” try to pretend that driving that honking thing, along with their crass consumerism, or their “I’ve got mine; f*ck you!” attitude doesn’t “inform” society with regard to their true politics.
And then I laugh heartily when they wonder where the term “fake liberal” came from!
You probably see less of that kind of wondering in the OC.
Less, but only by a little bit. I thought when I left the ugly, overpriced industrial park of San Jose that I’d finally seen the last Lincoln Navigator with a “No Blood for Oil” sticker plastered in the bumper. I was wrong.
In the five years that I’ve lived in OC, it went from a suburb on the outskirts of the greater-L.A. area with housing prices hovering just above the national median to an elite coastal enclave with housing triple the national average, a Hummer in every driveway. I guess it only takes five years for the richie Californians to perform a complete “Santa-Barbarazation” of a community and kick the entire middle class to the curb.
And while you may have the market cornered on dippy tech jobs, we’re the subprime lending capital of the country.
How about a book - “Santa Barbarians at the gate”?
(Materialism) “is worse in California- followed by the NYC area (including No NJ LI, and into Fairfield CT, then the DC megaplex and then Boston.”
I really think you need to come visit my town before ya leave us out!
Where is that?
Prof. Richard Florida. Aptly named to be commenting on a housing exodus. Yea, I can see his point, why hang in the concrete jungle when you can escape to a warn, welcoming state with congenial and jovial folks. Who knows? maybe Da_Lingus could be your neighbor!
oh yes I forgot about Florida! Palm Beach and the upscale areas of Ft. Lauderdale and Miami- need I forget Naples and Sarasota???????
I wish this data came out a few months ago, when folks (with yuppie blinders on) still had the temerity to brag that “everyone” wants to live in NYC. We are shoving the creative types to the far reaches of the boros, shoving immigrants into risky mortgages, and shoving the working people, not a small part of our tax base, out of the city entirely. If you don’t think this will badly compound any housing downturn, I’ve got this bridge to sell you in my home boro..
Somewhat OT, but serves a point IMHO.
SILVER speculators lost their shirt today. Over 20 hour period Silver price has fallen 20%!!
What about the home speculator, those who have been HOARDING 5 or 10 houses and pushed prices to incredible high.
I love LA, but I’ve made up my mind to move leave (except housing goes down to prebubble era, which I know will not happen). I’m already looking for jobs in ATL and Charlotte region. My head is almost exploding everyday reading all the blogs and waiting for the bubble to burst. Hopefully, I’ll come back and visit LA from time to time.
This housing price exodus doesn’t surprise me one bit. Some of my friends around my age (26) have already left the Northeast. You just can’t start a family or own a house (without taking on a time-bomb mortgage, that is) on entry-level wages around here. My brother has moved to North Carolina and I must say that I envy his situation.
I’m a firm believer that outsourcing and the trend towards cutting costs is going to propel a population diffusion to lower cost of living (and lower cost of doing business) areas. That’s why New England will be toast! NIMBYism is expensive.
It will be interesting to see if large swathes of the NE and California will be resort-type areas for the very wealthy with inherited, stock-market or high-powered executive jobs, the poor who serve them, and at most a tiny middle class of public service workers like doctors and gov’t employees…and that’s it.
Meanwhile the middle class have all decamped to the Midwest or South. It could happen…
The largest REIT in the U.S., Plum Creek, is trying to build two giant resorts plus 975 homes on/near pristine Moosehead Lake. See:
http://www.meepi.org/files05/pa021005.htm
This is by the rich (Texas billionaire Bass) and for the rich. They destroyed large areas in Montana and now they want Maine.
Take action by clicking on the link below or pasting it into your web browser:
http://environmentmaine.org/envmaine.asp?id=591&id4=ES
The Hummer drivers wanting me to know who they are at a stop light? Yes, I know them. I think that they are generally an A$$HOLE that is using way too much gas, polluting the environment, taking up too much road space, and paying for it with a great deal of debt, and too much for insurance. I am much more content drving my Ford or Mistubishi that are paid for in full, get reasonable mileage, liability insurance only needed, and not trying to show off. If somone looks down at me for that, *F&&## them.
If a Honda Accord drivers is sending the message “I’m smart”, and a Honda Civic driver “I’m practical”, the Hummer driver’s statment is I’m a jerk. A Fkn jerk.
Also, so many of these expensive cars never get paid for. They’re all leased.
I keep wondering where all these lease-returns show up. Everybody always has a new car. Even when I visit my grandfather in Erie, PA you can pull into the parking lot of a Rite-Aid pharmacy in the middle of nowhere and all the cars are fairly new. I read on CNN.com that the average income of a Mercedes buyer is $60,000. These cars are all leased! So if everybody takes turns paying the depreciation on these things and then turning them in — WHERE ARE THE OCEANS OF USED LUXURY CARS? Just like the housing bubble that may never end, even when the average SFH in Bakersfield costs more than all of towntown Tokyo, the used C230’s magically disappear when they hit their fourth birthday. Up is down and down is up — it’s the Alice in Wonderland economy!
Smart people buy them.
I bought a 2005 Toyota 4Runner Limited with less than 10,000 miles. Apparently he wanted the latest toy, a 2006 VW Taureg.
I’d like to thank the guy who drove it for a year for eating the 25% depreciation for me.
And when the SUV/Hummer driver gets into a fender bender with the piece of crap Honda guess who walks away unhurt???
The sooner fueling large SUV’s become prohibitive, the better. Alternately, legislating them into extinction is a distinct possibility. Many of us look forward to seeing them go bye bye.
Please. They both walk away. Size isn’t an issue when neither vehicle never gets above 20mph on the Interstate-405.
You guys are being un-American. The fundamental economic credo in America is that if you can afford to buy something, you have the right to buy it.
Now, it’s true that it may turn out that many folks could not in fact afford that $60k Escalade, but they will also pay the price for that.
For better or for worse (I’m not sure which), the following holds:
America = Consumerism = Materialism
On the Seattle news radio I heard that King county (Seattle) has had a net loss of people the last 4 years to cheaper surrounding counties. So where are all the buyers coming from the last few years and why is supply so tight? The answer would appear to be “investment clubs” and flippers who buy multiple properties and hold them for profit.
I would be that the people who “just want a place to live” are the ones leaving. When the speculators start dumping their multiple holdings it will be “last one out of town turn off the lights”.
The tax base will collapse, city services will suffer, and there will be a hunt for the “guilty”.
And those people who just wanted a home….they won’t be coming back to a city struggling to survive so demand will be low for a long time.
This trend does not bode well for cities.
f a Honda Accord drivers is sending the message “I’m smart”, and a Honda Civic driver “I’m practical”, the Hummer driver’s statment is I’m a jerk. A Fkn jerk.
Also, so many of these expensive cars never get paid for. They’re all leased
DITTO - WELL SAID
I would be that the people who “just want a place to live” are the ones leaving. When the speculators start dumping their multiple holdings it will be “last one out of town turn off the lights”.
The tax base will collapse, city services will suffer, and there will be a hunt for the “guilty”.
And those people who just wanted a home….they won’t be coming back to a city struggling to survive so demand will be low for a long time.
This trend does not bode well for cities.
At least in some cities of California, they are approving homes in the flood plains. No problem for them until the levees break. Arnold is going to be asking Bushie for some money. Too bad that the rain/snow already fell and the flooding should happen en mass this summer. NO GOV”T BAILOUT for these flooded sheeple/
State and local governments must have collected HUGE tax revenues from this real estate boom. Yet you don’t hear about big surpluses. I’ll bet they’re spending everything that comes in with no provision for a drop in revenues. What are they going to do when the well dries up?
Well over 80% of the people I know who are FB’s drive either a Honda or Toyota. Just sayin’…
Soon the FBers will have to even sell the Honda and Toyota, and will be driving some tuna wagon from the 70’s with smog belching out of the exhaust pipe, and the trunk held down with stretch cords, and the engine with bailing wire. Or they will be on a broken down bicycle.