February 7, 2009

Bits Bucket For February 7, 2009

Please visit the HBB Forum. Post off-topic ideas, links and Craigslist finds here.




RSS feed | Trackback URI

291 Comments »

Comment by pressboardbox
2009-02-07 07:04:23

Anyone else feeling stimulated today. Lets go think up some new scams for America. Life is great.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:14:37

I suggest more leverage and more confidence schemes. That’ll fix ‘er.

Comment by rms
2009-02-07 09:33:05

“I suggest more leverage and more confidence schemes. That’ll fix ‘er.”

Agreed, and a hearty serving of pious ignorance too!

Comment by not a gator
2009-02-07 09:43:50

there’s nothing so holy as an unholy ignorance…

be like unto the little babes…

(kinda like how drunk people survive the crashes they cause ’cause they’re too drunk to know they’re about to crash and don’t tense up)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by bluprint
2009-02-07 14:03:14

My wife was an emt/paramedic for probably close to 10 years or so. Anecdotally, she says drunks do seem more likely to survive.

In one case, an old (in their 80’s iirc) couple got in a wreck with a drunk driver. She (old lady) was killed, the old man was relatively unhurt. Wife had the drunk in the ambulance working on him and turned around to find the old man had hold of the drunk’s ankles, pulling him outta the ambulance…

 
Comment by Stars End
2009-02-07 16:19:33

Good for him!!!

Stars End

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-02-08 04:46:47

How sad for the older gentleman. :(

Drunk drivers really pi$$ me off.

 
 
 
 
Comment by combotechie
2009-02-07 07:31:01

Bring back a consumer based economy. Spend money you don’t have to buy things you don’t need manufactured in some country located on the the far side of the planet.

The magic key to endless prosperity.

Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2009-02-07 09:04:22

I have tried all those things and am no richer today than yesterday.
In fact, there are some people calling me saying that i owe them money!

I need another loan to payback the previous loan that i couldn’t pay back.
Any other ideas?

Comment by combotechie
2009-02-07 09:18:00

“Any other ideas?”

Borrow from Peter to Pay Paul, then pursuade the Guvmunt to pay off Peter.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2009-02-07 10:29:55

Borrow from Peter to Pay Paul, then pursuade the Guvmunt to pay off Peter.

I believe you have discovered the GEITHNER PLAN that will be revealed to all of us on Monday.

Genius!! simply genius~~!!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 10:50:00

Stiff your creditors.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 20:57:14

A person I used to work with, is letting her mortgage go, house south of Seattle. She used all the refi’s for cruises, trips, stuff, and is proud of the fact that she is going to live rent/mortgage free. Has absolutely no remorse, tells everyone she is living free now. Still in house.

Pisses me off. Damn this person is the kind that always lands in clover.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 10:23:55

Sounds like a sociopath with a high IQ.

 
 
 
 
Comment by cougar91
2009-02-07 07:37:24

This morning when I woke up, while still in bed, I asked my girlfriend for a “stimulus”. She said I was not TARP-worthy.

The nerve on that woman.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:39:48

Guys like to first thing… girls not so much.

Comment by combotechie
2009-02-07 07:45:15

“Guys like to first thing …”

And last thing. And in between first thing and last thing.

At least that’s how it is when guys are young. Something different happens when guys get older.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:49:29

The older you get, the more you think about it and the less you do it.

 
Comment by ouro verde
2009-02-07 07:52:57

I went to bed just rattled and displaced.
I’m talking baby talk this morning.
seriously, last night i felt agitated.
I am out of order.

 
Comment by ouro verde
2009-02-07 07:54:24

I am so disorganized I forgot the word.
Disorganized.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 10:05:42

That’s one of the good things about guys.
Along with…along with…actually I can’t think of anything else besides that. But it’s enough. :)

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 10:08:10

Oh, now, I was just teasing. There’s LOTS of good things about guys. I’m sure of it.

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-02-07 10:31:21

Oly, sounds like one of us HBB studs should go to Olympia and remind you how “good” guys can be.

 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-02-07 13:22:58

Just a hunch, cougar91, but I’m guessing that Oly isn’t in need of your services.

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-02-07 13:24:31

“Oly, sounds like one of us HBB studs should go to Olympia and remind you how “good” guys can be.”

Is this the kind of male chauvinism you’d like me to display when you tell me to “grow a pair?” Oogah, oogah! Cougar outs himself as a chest thumper. Just go buy an H2 and be a little less creepy.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-02-07 17:34:23

Just go buy an H2 and be a little less creepy.

Zing!

 
 
Comment by eastcoaster
2009-02-07 08:42:35

I like first thing. There I go again being oppositional to my gender.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-02-07 13:16:43

And you don’t like shopping, either. You’re a keeper, eastcoaster!

 
 
Comment by SV guy
2009-02-07 09:16:48

“Guys like to first thing… girls not so much.”

Very true PB, very true.

Women need a reason to, men need a place. :)

Mike

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-07 09:45:55

pot mixed with literary fiction seemed to do the trick for English and Philosophy majors back in college. I think they usually went for professors, though.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 21:01:14

dang must be married to the opposite of opposite sex.

Get it over with early and go to bed to sleep at decent time.

Just remember to pull down the nightgown when its over.

;> haha

 
 
Comment by skroodle
2009-02-07 10:42:18

The 3 stages of man:

tri weekly
try weekly
try weakly

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-02-07 11:12:52

:)

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-02-08 04:50:43

Good one, skroodle! :)

 
Comment by silverback1011
2009-02-08 05:38:06

This reminds me of a comedy club joke we heard recently. The comic said,

” You know those ads on tv that say if you should go to the hospital if you get an (substituting in nicer term ) erection that lasts more than 4 hours after taking those pills ?! Sh—–t ! If I get one like that, the first thing I’m going to be doing is going to See Alice. And then, if it’s still going strong, I’m gonna call up her Aunt Levitra !

Yes !

Yes !

 
 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-02-07 07:53:31

Give it time guys. Stimulis takes a year or two to show any effect. Expect to realize a 1-2% increase by 2011. In the meantime, expect zero percent interest.

Unemployment might be a problem while you are waiting, but you can always become self employed.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 08:34:02

“Stimulis takes a year or two to show any effect.”

Exactly how old are you?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-02-07 08:50:01

Bear,

I was just repeating what I read in the news about the stimulis plan!

I left out the part about how even with the stimulis, you’ll be getting less and less, just not as much less!

Skye

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-02-07 08:50:52

And only 1-2% “increase”? Poor thing.

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-02-07 08:53:39

Skye, me and PB were just making fun of the fact that I had mentioned my “stimulus” request to my girlfriend in the morning in bed and you said it would take 1-2 years to get stimulated… :-)

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-07 09:47:09

skye–”The Stimulus Package. Now with less Less!”

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 10:54:43

“Bear,

I was just repeating what I read in the news about the stimulis plan!”

Shrinkage is on the way for the near term no matter what kind of package stimulus is forthcoming.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-02-07 11:22:32

Blue Skye isn’t it interesting how quickly the minds went to the gutter and below the belt. :)

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 21:04:13

anyone recall the bit on SNL where the male hormones were all jumping around being really excited/active then you view the female hormones sort of languishing around, yawning…
finally as the male hormones get spent..the female hormones awaken …

funny skit

 
Comment by silverback1011
2009-02-08 05:40:09

Below the belt. A very good place to be. Especially in the afternoon.

 
 
Comment by bluprint
2009-02-07 08:50:59

but you can always become self employed.

In fact, I plan to build a still later this year. Just in case. ;)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-07 09:51:44

look out for revenooers…

no, seriously… states are really ramping up the sales tax nazi thing

 
Comment by Milkcrate
2009-02-07 11:23:28

In Daniel Boone National Forest, the enterprising still operate sour mash vats. Personal use, but not necessarily.
Maybe with a Pabst chaser.

 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2009-02-07 09:08:48

Stimulis takes a year or two to show any effect.??

Yea, that’s right. I think FDR was selling that Keynesian claptrap the Amerika for about 12 years.
It took WWII to really get the stimulus to work. Slave labor, rationing, population destruction and wrecking the entire world economy.
Then, at last,………………..recovery. The great American boom market had begun.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-07 09:48:43

Awesome. In today’s economy, all you’d have to do is bomb about two square miles of Taiwan.

Hey, they refused to sign the Berne Convention; I believe that makes them fair game. (Taiwan–it’s not even a real country, anyway.)

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-02-07 09:51:52

Speaking of Taiwan…what if the Chinese blockaded it and forced it to become a part of china?

We couldn’t do anything or they would dump all their T bills and crash the market.

 
Comment by cougar91
2009-02-07 10:34:53

>Hey, they refused to sign the Berne Convention; I believe that makes them fair game. (Taiwan–it’s not even a real country, anyway

Oh man, we are gonna have some problems here…. my gf’s ex-boyfriend’s brother’s sibling’s ex-gf’s current bf is from there, so I am really mad at you right now for saying such bad things about Taiwan.

 
Comment by MightyMike
2009-02-07 11:44:50

Speaking of Taiwan…what if the Chinese blockaded it and forced it to become a part of china?

We couldn’t do anything or they would dump all their T bills and crash the market.

Obviously, that would be naked act of agression that we should condemn. But why should Amercia have to do anything about it, other than denounce it at the United Nations? We have to give up on this idea that we need be the policemen of the world.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 21:07:08

cougar, you have more issues remember who is who !

 
 
 
Comment by ex-nnvmtgbrkr
2009-02-07 08:34:26

You “asked”? Well aren’t you sweet. Me, I believe in rude awakenings.

Comment by not a gator
2009-02-07 09:50:17

Like when my alarm goes off at 4:15am because it’s time for me to take a shower and go to work.

I swear … my wife is a saint.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 10:02:28

HahahahaahahahHAHAHAHA! That’s coffee-spittin’ funny!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 11:00:33

Olygal — Can you think of a way to convince a nice Mormon girl to try coffee?

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 12:59:52

‘Olygal — Can you think of a way to convince a nice Mormon girl to try coffee?’

Get her really drunk first, is my advice. Soften her up for the ‘big’ vices.
Or, take her to Zihuatenejo, MX and eat your breakfasts in a ramshackle restaurant on the beach, with mis-matched dishes and the Virgin of Guadalupe decorated with flowers and brightly colored papel picadors fluttering above your heads in the warm little breeze off the sea. That’s where I learned to enjoy coffee.
Home-made mescal, too. Oh, and…well, any number of other vices, come to think of it.
hey, make it a tour, even.

Or, (and this is my best idea), next time Sweet Baby Jeebus comes over to hang out on the porch and have a beer, I’ll have Him write a little note giving her permission and then just mail it on to you.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 14:51:00

“I’ll have Him write a little note giving her permission and then just mail it on to you.”

How come he is so kind to Lutherans, who even serve coffee at church meetings, and so mean to Mormons?

 
Comment by skroodle
2009-02-07 16:39:55

Start with ice coffee, I believe Joseph Smith’s prohibition is not on coffee, but on drinking hot beverages because they are bad for your health.

# That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
# And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
# And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.
# And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.
# And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.
# And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man—
# Every herb in the season thereof, and every fruit in the season thereof; all these to be used with prudence and thanksgiving.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 17:52:39

Because, PB, the Mormons like it that way. That’s how they know they are ‘in the world, but not OF the world’. You know—a people apart and specifically Celestial Kingdom bound. The ‘cognoscenti’. The ‘In’ Club. Otherwise, how would they know that they was special?

I mean, if you could just go haul your Mormon bum over to any ol’ pointy-topped brick building and sit there in a metal fold-out chair and be looking around at other regular ol’ sinners doing the best they can, and if you’d have to survey the other poor sinners, but without pious censure and secret guilt?
Well, then…how, then, how would you know you was a good Mormon without that? You’d just be regular folks…

Hahahahaha! HahahaHAHAHAHA! Hahahahaha…
Actually, this’s one of those ‘truth’ thingies that isn’t very funny. Hmmm. That’s odd.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 10:28:37

Whatever you do, don’t mix “Mormon Tea” with coffee…

My theory is that they avoid caffeine because they’re downing so much ephredra. :D

 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 08:29:30

Foreigners will buy our debt so we can buy American. We’ll show ‘em.

Comment by mikey
2009-02-07 09:20:37

We could start Hemp Farms and supply the world with “rope”.

They could either smoke it or hang themselves.

Ooops!…Kalifornia already has that one all tied up :)

Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 21:11:41

Well, hemp is similar to jute isn’t it? And jute is a big big biz from India. Well at least…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:12:40

Hair of the dog housing market cure: More leverage, plus confidence schemes.

Meanwhile, out there in the real world, home prices continue correcting downwards at the fastest pace in recorded history. Eventually some politician will announce a program just before the housing market actually bottoms out. Later they can claim credit for having stopped the market decline.

THE ECONOMY
598,000 workers lose their jobs in January
The number of cuts by employers is the biggest for any single month since 1974, according to the Labor Department. The unemployment rate climbs to 7.6%.
By Maura Reynolds and Walter Hamilton
February 7, 2009
Reporting from Washington and New York

To address the housing crisis, the administration is expected to leverage the size and expertise of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — the mortgage giants now controlled directly by the federal government — to spur the refinancing of millions of troubled mortgages.

Lee Ohanian, an economist at UCLA, said the recession, which began in December 2007, was relatively mild until the financial crisis worsened in September and businesses lost confidence in the economy. As a result, it is critical that Geithner’s plan restore confidence in the markets, he said. If it does, then Wall Street may be right that recovery is on the way.

Comment by OCBear
2009-02-07 07:52:00

“the administration is expected to leverage the size and expertise of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac”

EXPERTISE!!!!!!

I nearly spit my freaking coffee out.

Comment by rudekarl
2009-02-07 08:34:17

Maybe they can jack-up the “experts” bonuses after the sit-down w/ the administration. After-all, you don’t want these “experts” going somewhere else.

Actually, the administration really needs to reach out to the folks on the housing bubble blog for advice on what to do going forward.

Maybe Ben can start doing weekly youtube messages about what needs to be done, what caused this whole mess, etc. and then we can get some video airplay. If the videos get a lot of hits, and maybe some airplay on the MSM, we could get the real message out. The MSM loves to show youtube videos for some reason.

 
Comment by nhz
2009-02-07 09:26:02

the American Economy these days seems to revolve around fraud and Ponzi Schemes; guess that makes the FNM managers the real experts.

 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2009-02-07 09:18:33

Recovery has been on the way for Wall STreet since this collapse all began in August 2007. Not a single Wall street banker or broker has been investigated, arrested or gone to jail (except Madoff who’s scheme was too obvious). Instead, the insiders at the FED, Benanke, Paulson, and now Geithner have been giving them tons and tons more of free money at our expense. That’s the reality.
No foreclosures on CEO’s at Goldman, just more “bonus” money for bankrupting America, while robbing us blind.
Geithner, the TAX EVADER, (call him a CROOK), is now going to restore confidence, after Bernanke and Paulson (Call them Laurel and Hardy with their hands in the cookie jar) took EVERY BAD “asset” (call them bad debts) onto the FED balance sheet and handed out cash and treasury bonds in return. That just gives me all kinds of confidence.
Turning the dollar into a more worthless currency, and buying up everything valuable in sight for private ownership of the rich and politically connected. Yea, that’s going to Save America. I never believed America would become so corrupt.

Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2009-02-07 09:24:37

Oh, and by the way…………this really is “CHANGE I CAN BELIEVE IN”.
What a crock.
Obama, the magnificient, appoints every CON Man and crook in the prior Clinton Administration to push Hillary’s former agenda, Universal Health Care, and Goodies for their friends, under the guise of a NATIONAL EMERGENCY.

Hurry!! We need to pass this emergency spending Bill NOW!!! HURRY!! The future of Amerika is at stake!! What happened to a tax cut for 95% of American workers? What happened to “I will use my pencil to strike out every item of government waste”. Yea. Change. ….Right.
As i had maintained………..a Crooked Chicago Backroom Political hack.
Well, America, You got him. Congratulations.

Comment by darrell_in_phx
2009-02-07 11:43:59

Better than McSame with more tax cuts for the rich. Yeah, that has worked.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Matthew
2009-02-07 13:53:59

he’s right and I’m a Democrat… Obama’s appointments have been a BIG disappointment in general to me… more good old boy BS… clean house Barrack (like you promissed) !! you too Pelosi !!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by cashedin05
2009-02-07 16:11:58

“you too Pelosi !!”

She can start by giving back the Boing 757 paid for by us suckers…I mean tax payers.

 
Comment by cashedin05
2009-02-07 16:14:11

Boeing 757

 
Comment by skroodle
2009-02-07 16:46:38

LOL - If someone from Hawaii or Alaska was elected Speaker of the House we would have to buy a 777.

 
Comment by NOVAwatcher
2009-02-08 07:09:39

That’s a myth.

 
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-07 09:42:04

Diogenes,

The financial oligarchs and corporate cartels, and their bought-and-paid-for politicians of BOTH parties, have proof positive in the last election that the American sheeple are too stupid, herdlike, and passive to get too riled over over the massive swindle being perpetrated on them. The Establishment breathed a sigh of relief when Ron Paul, the only political figure of either party to warn in stark terms of the consequences of the road we’re going down, was met with bovine, placid indifference on the part of the electorate, who instead continued to vote for politicians and policies that are leading us like good serfs into their incorporated globalist plantation, while robbing us blind every step of the way.

The future that’s coming is exactly what the American sheeple deserve.

Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2009-02-07 12:41:49

I voted for Ron Paul in the primaries. He got beat out overnight by McCain here in Florida.
I nearly collapsed in disbelief. McCain was at the BOTTOM of my list. I never have liked him. He’s not a maverick. He’s a political hack.
Even so, I could never have pulled the lever for Obama.
It’s only been a couple of weeks now and already we see the true intentions for the “not the same old tired worn out ideas” platform of this eternal campaigner.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 10:30:35

What’s so bad about McCain? Aside from his frequent bouts of rage?

The rage (bomb, bomb Iran) and my pocketbook (he’s against public transit) were the reasons I voted against him.

Oh yeah, and Sarah Palin. (What a maroon!)

 
 
Comment by BanteringBear
2009-02-07 13:34:25

Sammy-

Can I ask what YOU have done to make a difference? Have you gotten involved, talked to people? Are you spreading the word, or just complaining on blogs? Are you out organizing, or are you a bovine, complaining about other bovines? This is not meant to insult you- I’m seriously wondering how you differ from those you disparage. I enjoy a lot of your posts, but have a genuine curiosity as to how you “walk the walk”.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-07 15:50:55

BB,

A fair question. Yes, I’ve gotten involved. I’ve committed my time, effort, and money to supporting candidates such as Ron Paul. I still contribute generously to groups affiliated with or endorsed by RP, such as Campaign for Liberty. As you can tell, I have no patience for those who whine about the status quo, then through either action or inaction continue to perpetuate it. Financial contributions are to me the litmus test of whether someone “walks the walk” or not - Ron Paul was not funded by K-Street and Wall Street dirty money like the opposition, so he was especially dependent on support from people like me. Without being oboxious about it, I also tried to persuade friends and family members to open their eyes and see what frauds both McSame and the Messiah were, and to stop giving their hard-earned money or support to candidates and parties that clearly did not and do not have their interests at heart. And yes, I’ve been vocal about my support in here not for Ron Paul per se, but about the principles this country was founded on.

http://www.campaignforliberty.com/usa.php

 
 
 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-07 09:52:44

whoops, I misread that as “the mortgage giants now control the federal government”

which is probably true

 
Comment by pismoclam
2009-02-07 14:48:22

Too bad those laid off-fired workers aren’t Fed,State, Co, or City retards. hehehehehehe

Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 10:32:24

If they got rid of all the retards in my division, the rest of us would be working 160hr weeks!

 
 
Comment by CA renter
2009-02-08 05:02:18

To address the housing crisis, the administration is expected to leverage the size and expertise of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — the mortgage giants now controlled directly by the federal government — to spur the refinancing of millions of troubled mortgages.
————————-

Because what we really need when everyone is losing their jobs, and losing half of their investment/retirement money, is more expensive housing!!!

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:27:45

The Ownership Society concept was a big part of W’s platform. How’d that work out for him?

The Associated Press
February 3, 2009, 3:19PM ET
Homeownership rate remains at 7-year low
WASHINGTON

The percentage of Americans who own their homes remains at the lowest level in nearly seven years as the number of foreclosures surges.

The Census Bureau said Tuesday that the U.S. homeownership rate fell to 67.5 percent in the fourth quarter of 2008, down from 67.8 percent in the quarter a year ago, though the change was not statistically different. (???)

The last time the rate was this low was in the first quarter of 2001. Homeownership in the U.S. peaked at the end of 2004, at the height of the housing boom. At that time, the homeownership rate was 69.2 percent.

Meanwhile the government report said that 2.9 percent of U.S. homes — excluding rental properties — were vacant and up for sale in the fourth quarter of last year, compared with 2.8 percent in the fourth quarter of 2007, but again the increase was not statistically different.

The Census Bureau says there were 75.5 million non-rental properties in the U.S. as of the fourth quarter of last year, of which 2.2 million were vacant.

That matched a high set in the first quarter of 2008 and was the highest quarterly number in records going back to 1960.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:36:17

I am murky on the Census’s report of 2.2 million vacant homes versus Bloomberg’s reported 19 million; where does the truth lie? How do you reconcile these figures?

Record 19 Million U.S. Homes Stood Vacant in 2008 (Update3)
By Kathleen M. Howley

Feb. 3 (Bloomberg) — A record 19 million U.S. homes stood empty at the end of 2008 and homeownership fell to an eight-year low as banks seized homes faster than they could sell them.

The number of vacant homes climbed 6.7 percent in the fourth quarter from the same period a year ago, the U.S. Census Bureau said in a report today. The share of empty homes that are for sale rose to 2.9 percent, the most in data that goes back to 1956. The homeownership rate fell to 67.5 percent, matching the rate in the first quarter of 2001.

The worst U.S. housing slump since the Great Depression is deepening as foreclosures drain value from neighboring homes and make it more likely owners will walk away from properties worth less than their mortgages. About a third of owners whose home values drop 20 percent or more below their loan principal will “hand the keys back to the bank,” said Norm Miller, director of real estate programs for the School of Business Administration at the University of San Diego.

“When you’re underwater and prices continue to fall, you tend to walk,” Miller said in an interview. “It’s a downward spiral that’s tough to stop because it feeds on itself. Foreclosures encourage other foreclosures and falling prices discourage buying.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:37:51

Given a 40+ percent drop in California home prices, can anyone provide a rough guess of how many California homes are over 20 pct underwater? I am guessing we are talking a big number here — easily in the millions of homes…

Comment by BubbleViewer
2009-02-07 07:50:43

I don’t know about the 20% underwater figure, but on a recent podcast by Bruce Norris, someone from CoreLogic said 28% of all CA mortgages are underwater.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:56:47

“…28% of all CA mortgages are underwater…”

Given rampant MEW extraction a few years back, the rough fifty percent plus drop in California housing prices and the large number of people in my smallish personal circle who I know to be underwater, that estimate sounds low. But I don’t have contrary hard evidence…

 
Comment by BubbleViewer
2009-02-07 08:11:36

Sounds low to me, too.
I saw a Forbes headline that Stockton home prices are down to mid-1990s levels. In other words, entire boom gains are gone and then some.
The MEW is the killer. Human nature being what it is, most of the state was living beyond its means for years and getting away with it.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 09:03:15

“Given rampant MEW extraction a few years back”

Does anyone believe MEW extractions created ‘normal’ consumption demand or the government’s fanciful stimulus packages will be able to restore it?

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 11:29:47

“Does anyone believe MEW extractions created ‘normal’ consumption demand or the government’s fanciful stimulus packages will be able to restore it?”

Absolutely. And further, I believe the best cure for an alcoholic suffering from a really bad hangover is to drink a pint of Jack Daniels first thing in the morning upon waking up. His headache will be gone before he even begins to notice the pain.

 
Comment by reuven
2009-02-07 12:06:18

If there were 8 million people spending $50K of “MEW” at the peak of the boom (not an impossible figure, considering that 35% of cars were financed with home equity money in 2008, for example), that could have easily supported 4 million service sector jobs for a year.

The direct relation between irresponsible equity borrowing/lending and our current mess is crystal clear. And few in Congress seem to admit this.

 
Comment by CA renter
2009-02-08 05:13:14

Agree, reuven.

People have been tapped out for many, many years. Can you imagine how “rich” they felt when their house became the primary income-earner, often earning in excess of $100K per year?

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:48:23

I feel compelled to point out that a huge mismatch between the number of houses and the number of households to occupy them at affordable prices is emblematic of command-and-control economic policy. Free market capitalism, which is supposedly the basis of the American economic system, could not have brought about this state of affairs. Our national housing policy is right in line with similar command-and-control economic programs that brought about the bankruptcy of the former Soviet Union. The big shame of it all is that sheeple who know next to nothing about economics will mistakenly blame the problems at hand on free market capitalism, and recommend tighter commmand-and-control policy as the remedy. It is such a shame for a country founded on big ideas like economic freedom and free enterprise to see its economy destroyed by a generation of politicians who put lying and greed ahead of the national interest.

Comment by Muggy
2009-02-07 09:37:17

“generation of politicians who put lying and greed ahead of the national interest”

See, the boomers are changing the world, man.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 10:56:15

I liked it better when they preoccupied themselves with growing their hair long, fornicating and smoking dope.

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 10:58:05

P.S. Best line from Frost Nixon:

“Did you do any fornicating last night?”

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-07 09:59:53

the term “command and control” is misleading

what actually happened was that the gov’t stepped in and gave tax breaks (free money) to individual households on the one side and promised, like a crooked croupier, to cover the banking industry’s losses on the other

lots of carrot; the stick is being applied to the prudent as we speak

I wouldn’t use the term “central planning” either (although there are some similarities, eg it was gov’t policy to increase homemoanership) because that would imply having an actual PLAN.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-02-07 11:39:16

Can you give me a time when there was free market capitalism in the United States? Just curious.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by LehighValleyGuy
2009-02-07 12:05:36

“Can you give me a time when there was free market capitalism in the United States?”

Certainly throughout most of the 19th century, there was something much closer to free market capitalism than what we have now. At least in the “free” states.

 
Comment by Pullthetrigger?
2009-02-07 18:27:38

Yes, but there were busts then too. It seems to come with the territory.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-02-07 18:54:52

Ah yes, the good old 19th century! When men were men and women, slaves and po’ folks knew their place, by god and if they didn’t, a good caning would fix it!

Just ignore those pesky boom/bust cycles and 16 hour days. Why, they’re lucky they even have a job!

Seriously, the 19th century?

 
 
Comment by Milkcrate
2009-02-07 15:10:43

As a side note, the moving van is replacing the Lexus as vehicle of choice in our gated ‘hood.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by ouro verde
2009-02-07 08:00:14

Yeah, if your portfolio goes down to be worth less than you paid, what will the government do to save the investor of industry?
A bailout per chance?
Call in the Senators.

 
Comment by reuven
2009-02-07 09:12:11

A few interesting points from the article: “Florida Foreclosed: The Ponzi State” (_New Yorker, Feb 9th)…folks are saying that they’ll never buy a house again!

I’m sure that these folks will eventually change their minds (I think some people’s brains are wired to spend ever nickel that they can beg, borrow, or steal), but I think that people will be very slow to buy houses over the next 5 years or so.

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-02-07 10:58:30

My dad lived over fifty years after taking a 50% haircut on a house. He never changed his mind about not buying again, ever.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2009-02-07 09:28:11

Clearly, Bloomberg lost a decimal place in their numbers.
I see mis-printed information in “news” all the time.

Try 1.9 Million, and that number is in doubt, as their are always squatters to occupy and strip vacant houses.

Comment by WAman
2009-02-07 14:23:02

They did not make a mistake they wanted to make news. That is why it was a headline They will however say it was a mistake on page 35 at the bottom of the obituary column.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Jay_Huhman
2009-02-07 21:30:53

“I am murky on the Census’s report of 2.2 million vacant homes versus Bloomberg’s reported 19 million; where does the truth lie? How do you reconcile these figures?”

Both numbers are from the Bureau of the Census. See Table 8 at
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/hvs/historic/index.html

But I believe you already know this PBear and are just being difficult.

 
 
Comment by packman
2009-02-07 09:40:23

“Homeownership rate remains at 7-year low”

Amazing how selective people’s memory is. This is just like the “savings rate is at a 6-year high” thing. If you look at them historically the picture changes completely. Historically the avarage homeownership rate is about 64% - we’re still way above that. Historically the average savings rate is about 7% - we’re still way below that.

There’s lies, damn lies, and then there’s statistics. IMO any statistics comparisons that don’t go back at least 10 years are invalid, simply because the last 9 years have been so out of whack as to make statistics from them meaningless.

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-02-07 10:00:42

9 years? I’d say the last 14 years when the earnings-less dot com stocks were popular. People attributed the stock boom to a Democrat President and a Repubiican congress. But the stock bust can be attributed to them too since it happened 11 months before Shrub took office.

 
 
 
Comment by KR
2009-02-07 07:42:45

the thing is you may actually see some buyers (I mean fools) come out and start buying homes thinking all is well because of lower rates and stimulus bill. they will be disappointed…a year from now

Comment by combotechie
2009-02-07 07:48:05

“they will be disappointed… a year from now.”

That’s then, this is now. Keep the hope alive, keep the money flowing, and learn to love the NAR.

Comment by Leighsong
2009-02-07 17:56:37

That was then

And Zen is now

Leigh original :)

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 07:51:20

There has never been a better time to ignore the NAR mouth flappers and pay close attention to the statistical evidence that shows housing prices falling at the fastest rate in U.S. history.

Comment by combotechie
2009-02-07 07:59:46

Shhhh. Don’t try to inject logic into knifecatcher’s house buying decisions.

Emotional decisions were what got the U.S. into this mess; emotional decisions will help get us out.

Comment by Fresno Dude
2009-02-07 08:43:09

Here in the foothills north of Fresno, the original property sold for $625,000 in the Fall of 2005. Now the offer is $309,000 on a short sale. There are several acres here and also a mother-in-law 2 bedroom house. I am renting the three bedroom for $1175 per month. When the price was lowered the last two times, several people showed up, but no one in the last six weeks. I am hoping to hold out until the middle of July when I retire and can get out of California. The landlord is a contractor who wanted to have real estate support him in retirement. I actually feel sorry for him as he seems like a nice fellow, but just made some wrong decisions. Maybe there are falling knife catchers; however, my feeling is there is a reluctance to actually put the hand out there and make a grab for one. Maybe all the action on the needed economic stimulus plan is bringing home the fact that knives exist and are really sharp.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 09:12:04

This recession started in the financial and real estate sectors. Now, the normal effects of a recession is taking them down some more. It’s brutal. However, that’s what you get when everyone invests solely in asset prices at the expense of the real economy.

 
 
 
 
Comment by eastcoaster
2009-02-07 08:49:18

the thing is you may actually see some buyers (I mean fools) come out and start buying homes …

Already seeing it around me. A newly married, young (early 20s) couple I know just bought a home. They were so gung-ho to buy rather than rent after tying the knot. They found a house that was originally listed at $370,000 (which was far too high to begin with). Sellers dropped it to $320,000 recently. I said, “Good, now did you offer $250,000?” No, they offered $311,000, seller accepted, and they think they got the deal of the century. Foolish young people. And they’re exactly why prices around here remain sticky. Sure, they’re dropping slooooooowly, but sticky, sticky, sticky.

Comment by B. Durbin
2009-02-07 18:24:19

Geez. We’re looking to buy, but our budget is $175K— or less than three times my husband’s income. And that’s not the mortgage, that’s the total. At that price we’re looking at foreclosures, many of which are quite nice.

For comparison, I can use my parent’s inflation-adjusted housing price. A basic inflation calculator shows that their .25 acre lot and ~ 2100 square feet would price out at about $150K today. So yeah, we’re looking a bit higher than inflation prices, but at that price we’re still seeing 4/2 houses on at least .15 acres (and some up to .3 or thereabouts.) And as you all know, the longer it takes, the better our deal.

So why not wait longer? Well, because our 2/2 apartment with no garage is feeling increasingly cramped due to our on-the-verge-of-walking eight month old child and all of his accessories— and renting a house is not only a scary prospect with the possibility of the LL foreclosing out from under you, it’s more expensive! Around here, they’re still wanting hundreds a month above our current rent. At the price we’re looking, our PITI would be about the same price as our rent.

Add to this the fact that after four months of looking, we’ve only seen one place worth offering on… at least until we saw the inspection. (Somebody else’s; we didn’t have to pay for it.) Roof replacement in two years… no. Sorry. Thanks for playing. So it may be another four months before we find something else, or even longer. We’re feeling cramped but not enough to panic us.

The bottom line comes down to this. It is not an investment. It is never an investment. It’s a home. Buy the place you want at a price you can afford, and live in it.

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-02-07 20:49:49

They have no other point of reference other than the past 10-15 years.

Comment by CA renter
2009-02-08 05:28:25

In California, many people have no point of reference because so few California residents are long-time or native residents.

They hear about how California is supposed to be expensive, and then they just bite the bullet and pay asking price.

Very frustrating for those of us who grew up here and clearly remember what these houses were selling for over many decades.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Jimbo
2009-02-07 07:56:50

Woke up at dawn this a.m., flicked among half-dozen local and national news programs, and within half-hour, saw about ten ads for “car title loans.” Ads have normal looking, semi-affluent types, with numerous $50 and $100 bills being counted and placed into their outstretched palms. Boy, oh, boy. Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel. Who says you can’t squeeze at least one drop of blood out of a turnip?

Comment by Jimbo
2009-02-07 07:58:00

Mixed metaphors okay?

Comment by combotechie
2009-02-07 08:01:55

“You can lead a horse to water, but a pencil must be lead.”
- Stan Laurel

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-02-07 08:47:52

lol. That reminds me of a Groucho line to a very prego lady on his show. It went something like this:

Prego: Yes, this is my 5th child.
Groucho: 5th, uhm, isn’t that a lot.
Prego: I love my husband.
Groucho: I love my cigar too lady, but I take it out once in a while.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by CA renter
2009-02-08 05:29:45

LOL! That’s bad!

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-02-07 13:50:53

You can lead a horticulture, but you can’t make her think.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-02-07 07:57:02

..”A failure to act, and act now, will turn crisis into a catastrophe and guarantee a longer recession, …

Since it’s 2/3 spending, even if Porkulous passes quickly it will be a popular defeat for BO.
He’s been in office a couple weeks. There is no legitimate reason for him to risk so much political capital on this bill.

Comment by bink
2009-02-07 09:49:18

He certainly has learned from Bush.

“If you don’t pass my stimulus bill, rabid vampire bats will be unleashed upon the country. These bats normally like to eat human eyeballs, but sometimes they get the taste for testicles. It’s your call, really.”

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 11:05:10

Either pass my stimulus package or my rabid vampire bats will consume your package — your call. And if my stimulus doesn’t work, it’s W’s fault.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 10:00:45

The ‘Buy American’ provision startled a lot of foreign heads of state and internationally renowned economists. Krugman’s defense of it sucked the trade-winds right out of their silly sails. Keynesian maniacs disunite. Our government’s ineptness is stunning the world. It had no idea. The world expected change. It is losing confidence.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-02-07 10:13:26

Next thing we will hear from the messiah is that we must have a strong planned economy on the order of the soviet union of the 1970s in order to avert disaster. Crack a few eggs to make an omelet.

 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-02-07 13:48:26

“There is no legitimate reason for him to risk so much political capital on this bill.”

I’d rather say that the political capital is being hemorrhaged by his party in Congress. He’ll take the blame though.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 08:10:39

I don’t get how the serial bottom callers, who currently claim housing will bottom out by year-end 2009, take into consideration the labor market situation. Was there ever a time in the past when housing reached a bottom during a period when job losses climbed steeply?

High jobless rate predicted to go higher
Unemployment now at 7.6%, report says
By Edmund L. Andrews
NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE
2:00 a.m. February 7, 2009

WASHINGTON — Although job losses accelerated last month, the U.S. economy has not yet hit bottom.

The contraction in jobs is already steeper than in any recession since at least the early 1980s. But economists warn that several more shoes are about to drop.

The first is the growing severity of the global recession, which has started to choke off exports from the United States. Growth in China has slowed to a fraction of its usually brisk pace, leading to brutal downturns in South Korea, Japan and other Asian nations. Much of Europe has slipped into a recession, too.

A second shoe to drop is workers’ incomes in the United States. The one seemingly bright spot in recent job reports, including the one yesterday, has been that hourly wages and weekly earnings have kept inching upward.

But economists say that trend is all but certain to reverse soon and cause further strain on consumers. Consumer spending, which represents a third of economic activity, has slowed drastically as many workers lose their jobs and others worry about their job security.

The third big shoe is the banking system, which is expected ultimately to report $1 trillion to $3 trillion more in losses tied to the housing market.

The upshot, economists say, is that the United States will face rising unemployment for at least the remainder of this year, even if Congress passes a big economic stimulus bill this week.

Comment by combotechie
2009-02-07 08:19:42

“The third big shoe is the banking system, which is expected ultimately to report $1 trillion to $3 trillion more in losses tied to the housing market.”

“$1 trillion to $3 trillion more in losses”

That’s quite a spread. And a whole lot of money going to vaporville.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 08:35:18

And that’s why the Fed is going to printerville.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-02-07 08:38:35

You can lead a bank to printerville but you can’t make it lend.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-02-07 08:49:01

If this thing gets outta hand, we’re all going to vaporville.

Comment by GH
2009-02-07 09:59:21

I rather think it is out of hand.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-02-07 08:51:55

“The third big shoe is the banking system”

Wait, there is a third shoe now? Do we have another new paradigm here?

Comment by Muir
2009-02-07 09:05:50

… and a fourth and a fifth….

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-02-07 09:07:47

Like I keep trying to tell people around here, it’s not in how many of them drop, it’s all about the correct sizing…

 
Comment by Muggy
2009-02-07 09:12:09

“Wait, there is a third shoe now?”

Never mind, I figured it out: the banking system is run by four-legged critters.

Comment by mikey
2009-02-07 09:31:10

Yeah…The Rats, Weasels and Foxes :)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by darrell_in_phx
2009-02-07 10:43:39

Nope… Not 4-legged. Centipedes.

Sub-prime, CDO, SIV, MBS, ABS, ABCP, Alt-A, NegAm, CDS…

So many more to come…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 12:08:58

It’s an Iraqi centipede economy…

 
 
 
 
Comment by qaxbami
2009-02-07 11:11:14

“Was there ever a time in the past when housing reached a bottom during a period when job losses climbed steeply?”

All these things are feeding on each other - like a chain reaction. Housing crisis -> credit crisis -> job crisis -> more housing crisis etc. etc.

Comment by darrell_in_phx
2009-02-07 12:01:42

All these bubbles that are popping (housing, debt, stocks, corp debt, hyper-consumption, hedge fund, commerical real estate, etc) were all the offspring of the debt bubble which was created to hide the REAL crisis. There was a giant sucking sound, and now all our jobs are gone.

And, the debt crash could not be happening at a worse time… Just as the Baby Boomers are about to figure out their pensions and Social Security can’t actually be paid.

Comment by CA renter
2009-02-08 05:33:33

Ding, ding, ding!

Once again, you nailed it, Darrell!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by Suffolk_Them
2009-02-07 08:18:51

Hamptons Inventory Rises, Prices Shrink

By Kate Maier

(02/04/2009) A year-end report compiled by the Corcoran Group compares real estate transactions in 2007 with those in 2008 and shows steep declines in unit sales and selling prices in East Hampton Town and nearby.

“Obviously what we are seeing out here is that inventory is starting to increase on the East End, and median sale price is starting to creep down,” Rick Hoffman, the company’s regional senior vice president, said. “I would suggest that sellers become more realistic with prices.”

The report notes that “the East End is not immune to the phenomenon that has swept the nation and most of the developed world,” according to Pamela Liebman, a chief executive officer at Corcoran. “With so few transactions in the pipeline, downward pressure on prices will continue until a sense of urgency is restored for buyers,” she predicted.

Mr. Hoffman said that this area, which is historically insulated, managed to stave off the economic downturn affecting the national market until about 18 months ago, while the rest of the market started seeing price declines three years ago. As a result, “we have had a more drastic adjustment in the past year,” he said.

According to the report, the number of houses sold in East Hampton Town declined almost 50 percent, from 322 to 165, and in the village from 61 to 31. The median price in East Hampton Town was $799,000 in 2008, compared to $893,000 in 2007. In the village, the median price drop was even steeper, from $2.65 million to $1.9 million.

The median sales price in Montauk was the same as 2007, $825,000, but the average price dropped from $1.25 million to $952,000, with 54 units sold. In 2007, 121 sold.

Prices in Amagansett went up slightly, while units and sales volume dropped by 60 percent. In Bridgehampton, the median price came down 30 percent, with the number of units and the sales volume dipping by more than 60 percent.

Southampton was not hit quite as hard as East Hampton. Median prices dropped by 8 percent and the number of units sold dropped 30 percent, from 177 to 123. Total sales volume was down 22 percent.

There were some small anomalies, but over all the numbers were, not surprisingly, indicative of national economic trends. In Wainscott, 23 houses were sold in 2008, up 21 percent from the year before, but the average price took a 50 percent cut. In Water Mill, both the median price and the total dollar sales increased, and only two fewer houses were sold as compared to 2007. Median prices increased slightly in Sag Harbor and on North Haven as well.

But, Mr. Hoffman said, with so few transactions in those specific areas, such glimmers of hope weren’t likely to be market indicators.

The New York Association of Realtors has reported that single-family home sales in New York were down 16.2 percent in 2008, and the median price dropped by 8.5 percent. December’s numbers were rosier than November’s, however, with a sales increase of 5.6 percent and a median selling price increase of more than 7 percent. “We are hopeful that the December numbers mark the start of the housing turnaround,” a recent release said.

According to the association, in Suffolk County the number of homes sold has dropped almost 20 percent since 2007, and the median sales price dropped for the first time in two years, by 7.6 percent.

Mr. Hoffman stressed that while there are still buyers out there, setting a reasonable price is key. “Seriously, it’s about the right price on the product,” he said. “Anything in any price range that is priced correctly” has a good chance of selling, but “if your property isn’t selling and it has been on the market for more than 90 days,” an adjustment is in order.

http://www.easthamptonstar.com/dnn/BusinessRealEstate/NotetoSellers/tabid/7865/Default.aspx

Comment by BanteringBear
2009-02-07 14:09:50

“The report notes that “the East End is not immune to the phenomenon that has swept the nation and most of the developed world,” according to Pamela Liebman, a chief executive officer at Corcoran. “With so few transactions in the pipeline, downward pressure on prices will continue until a sense of urgency is restored for buyers,” she predicted.”

“A” CEO at Corcoran? How many do they have? Methinks there’s going to be some “downward pressure” on her salary, assuming her position even remains.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 08:48:16

All the media and political maneuvering reminds me of last September. If we don’t pass the stimulus it’s going to Armageddon. I thought I heard Mr. Reid say again he wouldn’t like to see what happens to the markets if the stimulus doesn’t pass.

In addition, CNBC was in non-stop pump mode yesterday from early morning to nightfall. Welch was on squawk; I have no idea what he said. The noon team’s banner asked “Is this the turnaround?” Then last night, on Kudlow, I thought I saw Liesman announce another bank bailout.

Am I experiencing deja vu or is it the percocet? I’ve been stoned to half-way stoned the last couple of days so my perception might be off a bit.

Comment by Blano
2009-02-07 09:41:18

It has sounded similar in some ways. The faces have changed, the song remains the same. Hopefully it’s more fun watching on drugs.

 
Comment by Muir
2009-02-07 10:13:16

“Am I experiencing deja vu or is it the percocet? I’ve been stoned to half-way stoned the last couple of days so my perception might be off a bit.”
It’s not the percocet.
For some reason he was having rushes of euphoria about this little graph:

research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/fredgraph?chart_type=line&s[1][id]=M2&s[1][transformation]=ch1

Going on an on as to the M2 money supply being the holy saviour herself.
Pathetic.

Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 10:38:50

We are in a period where the economy is going through what economists call rationalization. We are going to have to reduce the number of retail stores, coffee shops, automobile plants, fast food restaurants, car dealerships, etc., until we get to a level that makes rational sense for the size of the economy. We just built too much stuff, launched too many stores, and created too much capacity for almost everything.

The idea for the business person today is to still be standing when we get through this, as we will. That is what free market economies do. The day will come when we get back to 3-4% GDP growth. But it will be a rational growth based in real fundamentals, one that will last a long time. So hope is not a business strategy. You need to be planning for a lengthy recession and a slow recovery.

And if your business is one that helps producers cut costs? Or improve production? Then this is your time to shine. It is not clear what the stimulus plan will be, but look at it to see if there is something you can do to get in the flow of that money. There are opportunities out there.

We were in a similar period of malaise in the late 1970s. Everyone wondered where the new jobs would come from. The correct answer was, “I don’t know, but they will.” As it turned out, we saw the creation of whole new industries, which the government had little to do with. It is still the right answer. The new industries that we will see next decade? Biotech? Energy? A new wireless telecom build-out? Something out of left field? The correct stance is to be cautiously optimistic.

February 6, 2009
By John Mauldin

Comment by Suffolk_Them
2009-02-07 10:44:13

Totally agree.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by darrell_in_phx
2009-02-07 11:02:49

But at what lower GDP?

Once we admit the pensions and Social Security can’t be paid, and grand-parents and parents once they are too old to work, are living with my generation, how many fewer houses and how much less stuff are we going to need?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by WAman
2009-02-07 14:36:26

When we start taxing people who are rich (125k and up) what they should be taxed we will not have to worry about entitlement payments.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 21:47:55

How about no ss for people making over 250k or 500k ++ .

 
Comment by silverback1011
2009-02-08 06:31:29

I disagree. If those earning over $200K - $250K get taxed for S.S., they should damn well be entitled to collect it.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 10:42:40

entitlement, entitlement

SS was supposed to be social ‘insurance’

not a pension

it’s a safety net, in case you fall. If you’re lucky enough not to need it…

Anyway, medicare costs much more than SS, and the wealthy benefit from that. Be happy with your Cadillac healthcare. If you have 8 millions in the bank, you are in the position to pay taxes, not stretch your hand out for a dole. And that’s a good thing.

ps–gen x, don’t plan on receiving any ss at all. not sympathetic to your “entitlement” claims when I will be paying the bills… and paying my own way.

 
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-02-08 18:21:53

15.3% of your income off the top, no exceptions is damn expensive insurance.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by darrell_in_phx
2009-02-07 09:10:16

Employers overwhelmed with applicants
by Chad Graham and Ronald J. Hansen - Feb. 7, 2009 12:00 AM
The Arizona Republic

Denise Stefanisin figured that a recent job fair in Phoenix would be crowded.

She didn’t anticipate that a double line of applicants would snake around the building. It took her an hour to get inside, only to find companies mostly offering jobs paying just above minimum wage.

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-02-07 09:21:00

There’s that old supply and demand thing. It keeps popping up no matter how many trillion$$$ they throw around to try to suppress it.

 
Comment by Jimbo
2009-02-07 10:09:03

The news from the financial front in Atlantic City, NJ, gets bleaker by the day. Since about Labor Day, Pinnacle, after razing The Sands, put an indefinite hold on $2b replacement; 2500+ layoffs across all casinos; state-appointed receiver for Tropicana rejected $700m bid for casino only to have bid resubmitted between $500m and $600m; Resorts hasn’t paid mortgages since October (mortgagee asking state just for title to property); The Donald getting serial 30-day extensions to rework payments on his three properties; MGM now looking to sell big parcel on which they’ve been planning for years to build. The one bright spot, to which all the industry boosters have been pointing wildly, is Revel’s $2b project. Revel’s PR releases promised to press on, went on and on about company’s “confidence” in resort, pooh-poohed the nay-sayers, etc. Well, this week Revel stopped construction on the casino’s interior, will proceed only with what it takes to prevent elements from turning building into derelict hulk.

Yesterday, ACES, an express train from NYC to AC, with one stop in Newark, NJ, made its maiden journey. The celebrations seemed very downbeat, though. Even the PR hacks appear aware that the public knows it will take more than ACES to trumpet a turnaround.

Comment by Carlos Cisco
2009-02-07 16:03:47

Another economy built on losers; wheels falling off speeding trains are brought to mind. Only Ohio seem to understand the folly of hoping for casinos to save the employment / state tax deficit for half of the country. What a joke. A speeding train to a casino!

Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 10:44:37

they will be riding “aces” to NYC looking for a job

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 21:52:38

Mentioned before, The Ritz, Rancho Mirage,CA 85% finished put on hold indefinitely..no loans available to complete. No work being done, deserted property. Next to is 2 mill props, 3/4 graded lots just empty, deserted. The people who bought the few props finished,bought with package of gym membership, restaurant membership, and at home dinner delivery from The Ritz.

Nada.

 
 
Comment by in Colorado
2009-02-07 12:42:23

Same story here in Larimer County:

Many of the stories were the same: unemployed for weeks, some for months, and all looking for work.

More than 1,000 hopeful jobseekers stood in lines that snaked through the First National Exhibition Hall at The Ranch on Tuesday, hoping to be among the 10 percent that got a second look for jobs at Northern Colorado’s newest hotel.

The successful ones — those who impressed interviewers with their skills, personality or presence — will fill about 160 full- and part-time jobs ranging from line cooks to bellhops to front-desk clerks at the soon-to-open, 263-room Embassy Suites Hotel, Spa and Conference Center at The Ranch.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-07 17:07:39

Man, that’s depressing. Those are soul-killing jobs for people used to so much better.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-02-07 19:10:09

Back to reality.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-02-07 19:13:25

Wait until the “soon to open” starts getting some convention cancelations. Hope they weren’t expecting Citi, BofA , Wells Fargo and GM conventions.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 09:28:19

The Senate-passed credit for homebuyers, unlike the existing $7,500 credit, isn’t refundable, which means house purchasers who owe less than $15,000 in federal income tax won’t get the full benefit in a single year.

Instead, the Senate provision would allow homeowners to split the $15,000 into two separate tax credits of $7,500 to be taken in successive years. To pay $7,500 in federal taxes, a family of four would have to earn about $92,125, according to Internal Revenue Service tax tables.

Bloomberg: Senate’s Stimulus Tax Credit Favors Higher-Income Homebuyers

Comment by nhz
2009-02-07 09:50:12

ah, that (favoring the rich) sounds very much like the Dutch way of tax deductions for homeowners - so maybe it will help to push the US market to new all time highs?

 
Comment by darrell_in_phx
2009-02-07 10:04:00

” To pay $7,500 in federal taxes, a family of four would have to earn about $92,125″

But man does it ever get steep after that!

 
Comment by Lisa
2009-02-07 10:36:00

“The Senate-passed credit for homebuyers, unlike the existing $7,500 credit, isn’t refundable, which means house purchasers who owe less than $15,000 in federal income tax won’t get the full benefit in a single year.”

Unless it got taken out in the final bill, I believe their were income caps on who would qualify for the $15,000 credit. For individuals, it was $75K, for couples it was $150K. So in high priced markets, most folks who have the necessary income to qualify for a mortgage wouldn’t qualify for the $15,000 homebuyers credit.

Does anyone on the board know if the income caps stayed or went away in the final bill?

Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 10:44:46

According to this, there are no income caps:

By replacing a $7,500 tax credit for first-time homebuyers earning less than $150,000 with a $15,000 break for all income groups as part of the economic stimulus package, senators effectively are encouraging purchases by higher-income households with a reduced risk of default.

Comment by bluprint
2009-02-07 11:10:44

(f) Modification of Income Limitation- Subclause (II) of section 36(b)(2)(i) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 , as so added, is amended by striking “$75,000 ($150,000 in the case of a joint return)” and inserting “$125,000 ($250,000 in the case of a joint return)”.

Like I said below, maybe I’m looking at a different senate bill, but it looks like they just doubled the income ceiling.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Lisa
2009-02-07 11:28:45

“Like I said below, maybe I’m looking at a different senate bill, but it looks like they just doubled the income ceiling.”

Will this do anything to put a false floor under home prices? I know the Gov’t is desperate to re-inflate values, but with cram downs coming and tighter lending standards, it’s hard to tell how much of a difference this would actually make.

 
Comment by bluprint
2009-02-07 12:08:17

I don’t think so. I’ve been thinking a lot about this for a day or two, and I think it might actually have the effect of helping prices get down quicker.

My logic: Many sellers right now, for various reasons, can’t or won’t list their house for X (lets assume X represents the current equilibrium fair-market price), but rather want to list for >X due to what they have in the place.

Since the current equilibrium price is less than the sticky prices sellers are asking, a 15k kicker for the buyer effectively lowers the “real” price for the buyer creating a situation where the buyer paid FMV but the seller recieved 15k >FMV.

After that transaction occurs, the new “sticky” price for the new owner is not the nominal purchase price, but the “real” price paid, which was agreed purchase price minus the 15k kicker from govt. What I mean by “sticky price” here, is the price below which the new owner might be hesitant to sell.

This doesn’t much help some extreme coastal cases, like a person who is into a place for 400k but which is now only worth 200k, but it does help an owner “get out” from under their albatross if their losses so far only amount to 15k. Or in the case where the losses are more, say 20 or 25, then the 15k alleviates the pain for a significant part of that.

 
Comment by bluprint
2009-02-07 12:14:45

The question should be asked, I think, “What about places where list price is close to FMV?” I think in those situations, the 15k will be split between buyers and sellers somehow, similar to how taxes are split. Selling prices will probably be a little over the natural FMV with the effective “real” price paid by the buyer a little less than FMV and the difference covered by the credit.

How it is split (e.g. 60/40, 20/80) I suppose depends on the elasticity of the supply and demand curves. But I don’t think this kicker, even if it were in place for a long time, would create any sort of real floor in house prices especially since it’s not really a 15k credit but rather a 10% of house price credit with a cap of 15k.

 
 
 
 
Comment by bluprint
2009-02-07 11:02:45

According to the law I read (and maybe it was the wrong one or a different one or something) the credit was transferrable, meaning it could be partially transferred as payment of debt or expenses associated with acquiring the house.

E.g. If I only pay 8000 per year in taxes, I could borrow 7k from my good friend mktMaven who pays at least 7k in taxes, use the borrowed money for a downpayment (or for closing costs,etc) then transfer 7k of the tax credit back to mktMaven in payment of that deb, keeping 8k of the credit to use directly myself.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-02-07 14:47:46

If your income was less than 92K, could you increase your tax burden by say converting a traditional IRA to Roth IRA and claim this tax credit?

Also, could high income earners walk-away from existing underwater homes, buy new homes, then claim the tax credit?

Comment by bluprint
2009-02-07 15:03:57

If your income was less than 92K, could you increase your tax burden by say converting a traditional IRA to Roth IRA and claim this tax credit?

That’s an interesting thought. I would have to put more thought into it, but you are still taking on increased taxes instead of deferring them. Lets say the conversion costed you 15k in additional taxes, which is conveniently the amount for your house purchase credit. So that’s a wash. You don’t get any real help/benefit in terms of immediate cash flow for the house purchase, but you have a Roth IRA now instead of a traditional.

On the other hand, by choosing not to do this and instead just get the full benefit of the 15k some other way that improves short-term cash flow, (e.g. borrow money as I describe above) then you now have an extra 15k cash available to invest (or a smaller loan on the house). I think I would lean toward continuing to defer the taxes on the IRA and take the benefit of the 15k cash now.

 
Comment by Lisa
2009-02-07 15:33:51

“Also, could high income earners walk-away from existing underwater homes, buy new homes, then claim the tax credit?”

No, the credit is for first-time home buyers, defined as someone who hasn’t owned a home for at least 3 years.

Comment by bluprint
2009-02-07 16:06:55

In the Senate amendment I read, they changed that provision to include anyone who buys a house for a principal residence, not just first-timers.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by skroodle
2009-02-07 16:51:16

If your making $92k, your also buying a $500k house, right?

 
 
Comment by hismail
2009-02-07 09:31:25

Saw this on craigslist and though it very well written…..creatures!

WANTED: HOME ON ACREAGE
Reply to: hous-1010438113@craigslist.org [?]
Date: 2009-01-27, 7:47PM EST

Hello to those seeking to sell their home on acreage. Looking for 4 to 40 acres with a home in Lee or Clay county Alabama. Will pay up to $250,000 for property.

As real estate agents are no longer in any way professional I will not be working with such creatures.

Let me know of any properties that fit the above description.

Thank you!

* Location: Lee or Clay County Alabama

Comment by oxide
2009-02-07 11:30:11

Pricewise, it’s a wee bit early to be looking for a homestead, but I guess it’s never too soon to go into canned-pead-and-AK-47 mode.

 
Comment by skroodle
2009-02-07 16:52:38

$250k in Alabama??

Comment by B. Durbin
2009-02-07 18:36:53

For forty acres and a home, sure, why not.

Throw in a mule while you’re at it.

 
 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-02-07 09:37:02

Remember all those low paying “jobs that American workers wouldn’t do” ?

YOU might be looking for one of them NOW GF and FB !

Comment by darrell_in_phx
2009-02-07 10:23:15

I’ve been thinking about that.

AZ state, in one report says the state has lost 115K jobs. In its report on employment, AZ says more people are working than a year ago, and that the entire increase in unemployment is from increases in the labor force. I believe the job loss. I don’t believe people moving here. Vacancy up, school attendance down..

As for more people with jobs, then why are income tax receipts off 20%?

Perhaps the illegals didn’t count as workforce…. Perhaps there are people losing good paying jobs and taking those jobs the illegals didn’t officially have.

It is the only thing that makes sense to me. Mass job losses, but more people officialy have jobs? Must have been a lot of people that had jobs but didn’t count.

Comment by skroodle
2009-02-07 16:54:37

Also include people going from 40 hrs per week getting cut back to 20.

According to the Government, if you work 1 hour a week, you are employed.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-02-07 19:32:21

Double plus good!

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 22:11:12

According to stats, illegal workers paid over 50Bill in taxes from 1996-2006. Many paid with idea that in case of amnesty, they would be able to show they paid taxes and get amnesty to become US citizens.

 
 
 
Comment by nhz
2009-02-07 09:48:12

Dutch bubble update:

Dutch prime minister appeared on TV yesterday to say that we are heading for unprecedented (bad) times. That’s quite a change, until a few months ago they assured everyone that things were looking bright and Netherlands would easily weather the storm while many other EU countries were already battening down the hatches. He now says the country and especially the housing market is in severe trouble (must be a joke, last month registered a new all time high for prices, and home sellers are as confident as ever about winning the lottery).

But it is clear that the economy is going down: job losses are surging, many companies have gotten in severe trouble over the last few weeks and a complete nationalisation of all banks is no longer ruled out. Last month prediction of our Ministry of Truth that the Dutch economy will contract 0.7% in 2009 seems to have put the decimal point at the wrong place.

The announcement suggests that the government is going to take emergency measures over the weekend. Some options are cutting pensions and doing something about the HMD. In Netherlands mortgage payments and all other costs that are somehow associated with buying/owning a home are 100% deductible from income tax; this is one of the causes of our stellar home prices. Any change to HMD will bring down Dutch homeprices (but who knows, maybe they will introduce 120% deductions for home owners?). The HMD plus some other homeowner subsidies cost the government 30 billion every year, around 5000 euros for every home. Plenty of money to be found there …

At the same time my city is finally sounding the alarm regarding new home construction: with thousands of new homes in the pipeline people are no longer buying, but the government is counting on home/land sales to make ends meet. They are now suggesting that the local housing corporations will buy these homes (with government lending the money) and temporarily rent them out. Trouble is, even if they rent out these homes at 1/200 monthly (minimum to break even at current rates) no one is going to rent them; people can rent from the housing corporation for about a third of those prices, although there are long waiting lists for these rental homes.

I am told the city will try to rent out the new homes at 1/300 monthly, and count on at least 2% yoy price appreciation of the homes to make up the operating loss in the long run. Good luck with that, after about 1000% price appreciation in the last 20 years.
I see a city bankruptcy in the not to far future …

Comment by Muir
2009-02-07 10:03:41

Congrats nhz on future (expected) price declines.
HMD = ?

Comment by DennisN
2009-02-07 13:56:48

Probably home mortgage deduction.

 
 
 
Comment by diogenes (Tampa,Fl)
2009-02-07 09:55:54

The Continuing Saga of the collapsing building construction market:

I haven’t posted about my company for a few months now, but will update today.
Some background: My company which has been in the home construction supply business for about 50 years now is slowly, but assuredly sinking into oblivion. We are still operational, and still treading water, but business is very slow. I will focus on our facility in Florida.

At the height of the construction boom, we were working 2 shifts overtime and shipping about 120,000 -130,000 pounds of material off our docks daily. (steel products). That peaked at about Sept 2006. We had to increase wearhouse space to accommodate the volume. We had the parking lot filled to capacity……….about 75-90 cars crammed in for employees.

In 2007 business had slowed substantially. We still shipped an average of about 50-60,000 pounds a day until late in the year, then down more. Down from 2 to 2.5 Semi-loads to a single full truck load.
This was about where business had been in 2000-2002, before all the madness started.
“Free houses for everyone. Don’t miss the Housing Boom, blah, blah, ……..”

The slope of sales destruction has been a steady downward decline. Begining in 2008 we started seeing volumes in 30-40,000 pound shipping weights, and continued to decline. Since the end of 2008, we have been shipping an average of about 20,000. Some days much less. It is barely enough to cover overhead, and in some cases does not.
We have steadily cut back staff. Our Plant went from about 100 full time employees to 80, 60, 50. Many cuts happened last year and more have just been done. Somehow, I am still employed, though several other managerial staff persons have been cut.
Late last year we began 32 hour work weeks for regular employees. Two weeks ago we cut our work staff to about 20 or less and began a single shift………32 hours per week. That includes production, maintenance and warehouse employees…….a skeleton crew. Monday we cut more production employees.
Yesterday, we cut more office personell and support staff at all locations. I think we now have about 15-20% of the workforce we employed in 2006.

We are still able to make our payroll and keep money coming in from the small amount of sales we are getting, but it felt strange to pull into my office parking lot and see 7 cars where there was once no room to park. (Friday’s is office and warehouse crew, the plant is closed). One of the primary office employees was terminated yesterday.
There are only a few of us left.
I have anticipated being a statistic in the unemployment line for about a year now. Thus far, I am still drawing a paycheck, but if we see sales decline anymore i think i will be able to devote myself to blogging full-time.

Comment by bink
2009-02-07 12:30:39

On the flip side, I work above an unemployment office. Finding parking in the mornings has become very difficult and our bathrooms are degrading at rapid speed.

Who builds an office complex and doesn’t include ventilation fans in the bathrooms??

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-02-07 15:30:55

Well, it was probably both mandated by your building code and included in the plans and specifications, but the eventual owner (your local government) probably decided they could save some money by omitting the fan.

Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 10:53:51

so true… my local government built a parking garage during the mad boom (2006) with retail/restaurant space … which was not built to city code.

First tenant went out of business trying to fix/get city to fix the location. Lame.

(this is what comes of not having professional engineers in your engineering dept, btw… nobody wants to pay for engineers. spend all the big money on top management staff in hopes they’ll stick it to the unions, on overpriced fleet vehicles (I mean, a Dodge Magnum? really? oh, and this was not the police dept, we expect them to be ridiculous) and unnecessary paper shufflers in pursuit of dept head empire building (I have MANY minions–I’m VERY important!))

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Blue Skye
2009-02-07 14:51:48

Right behind you diogenes. The stuff we sell is a little higher on the cast iron food chain, so time between order and delivery is three to 12 months. Orders started to drop off mid 2008. Some major orders cancelled in December. I have a meeting with the beancounters on Monday to go over the details of the “clawback” on my 2008 compensation.

Hey, I’m still employed for now, but it might cost me a tad.

We haven’t had an actual drop in revenue but with no orders inbound it is a very visible black wall. Had a chat with the CEO on Friday, long time friend. He was rambling on about how society will need to be reborn out of this, and did I know much about the Moravians and commerce without currency comunities (where the government cannot tax). I wonder if he is on meds at this point.

MY FIL was the last man standing at the RCA tube division in the 70s. Afterward he sat in the kitchen for over a year staring at the wallpaper all day, trying to process.

I’d rather go fishing.

Comment by 45north
2009-02-07 18:34:57

MY FIL was the last man standing at the RCA tube division in the 70s. Afterward he sat in the kitchen for over a year staring at the wallpaper all day, trying to process.

sounds like me

anyway, I am also (at this exact moment) listening to “Someday Soon” by Judy Collins

 
 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2009-02-07 16:17:44

I have had that same parking lot feeling for the last 20 years here in ferric oxide, Ohio; only difference is that often, where 1500 cars were parked it was reduced to 3 or 4, including mine. In my travels, at one coke plant the CFO opened the gate ( no guard) for my meeting with the President/CEO/Plant Manager; only the three of us where once worked near 500. Donner-Hanna, Buffalo, NY. Keep buying that Chinese steel with those stimulus dollars. I’m sure it will help somebody.

Comment by silverback1011
2009-02-08 06:45:00

This is where my husband’s career went. Analytical chemist/metals industries/production/yep. Lotsa emptly plants around here too. No need for chemists. Nothing to analyze. No research going on at chemical plant much. No need for him there. Too bad about his health/droppint out of pharmacy school. Lotsa work for those people. But, at this point, he’s been approved for S.S. disability, so we’re doing fine now. He’s really retired. Still gets calls from temp. agencies for a whole week as a fill-in chemist. Tells them not to call him now.

 
 
 
Comment by hip in zilker
2009-02-07 10:13:42

Deals popping up along Texas Gulf Coast

Real estate bounces back from history-making storms, attracting buyers with new developments and relatively low prices

http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/statesmanhomes/02/08/0208gulfcoast.html

Got mud?

 
Comment by Anon In DC
2009-02-07 10:15:33

Hi. Some progess here in DC. Forclosure Capitol Hill townhouse with English basement apartment. Listed at $435K. 913 North Carolina Ave, SW, 20003. Decent location. Three blocks from Eastern Markt Metro. Very average Cap Hill town house - not a great big one, not teeny tiny. Don’t know whether apartment is legal, my guess is not. Usually ads will say that apartment has certificate of occupancy. But don’t thing too many hoops required to get.
I would say that this about 1998 - 2002 price ?
Maybe it’s priced lowish to try and attrack overbids. A FB 2 blocks west has had his townhouse on the market for over year for $1 million. He’s long gone to Arizona for work. They own another house in Atanta. Bet this $435K price is causing some anxiety among some of the neighbors :) Two other nearby townhouses much smaller have been on the market for months at $500K and $542K. The $500K one is new construction about 6 years old but TINY. The $542K one is kind of modern 1950s thing (or remodeled in 1950s - has floor to cieling walls of window) in an alley with other similar places. Price here still in the stratasphere, but expect changes quite soon - by the fall.

Comment by MightyMike
2009-02-07 12:27:36

What’s an English basement apartment?

Comment by bink
2009-02-07 12:33:31

Usually just a 1-2 bedroom with a living room and a single bath. Walk-out steps in front and back underneath the entry for the main house.

1-foot tall windows at the top of each room so you can watch the ankles of passers-by through the bars.

 
Comment by Anon In DC
2009-02-07 13:10:09

Hi. I think actually for English basement the front is mostly excavated so that the windows are regular size. Even if you face a retaining wall / stairwell you can get much more light and air than just the small windows as in a regular basement.

Comment by bink
2009-02-07 15:02:16

That’s probably true. I’m basing my description on what is normally described as an English basement in the DC area MLS. Realtors have their own language in the MLS.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Anon In DC
2009-02-07 13:12:00

Typo in orginal post. House is in SE quadrant not SW.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 11:04:36

Wait, wait, wait — $3000/mo to live near EASTERN MARKET?!?!

I know that area is “funky”… now, funky rents might top out at 1500$… wow, God Only Knows what rents are now in Dupont Circle, which used to be “cheap” (ha ha).

Dupont Circle is not safe, but I would consider it safer than Eastern Market, especially at night… I remember buying CDs at an Eastern Market stall that had been “cut” as in “returned and destroyed” for $1 a piece back in, oh, 2001 or 2002.

Now, East Cap looks MUCH better than I remember it (looked like the avenue of despair–er, I should add I mean the Eastern Capital ‘hood, not East Cap itself, the street, dunno if it still looks razed) but it still looks funky, not gentrified, not even close.

I’m sorry, but $435K is still CA bubble Compton pricing, I don’t care how solid the construction is, it’s still somewhere you want to walk quickly at night with a hood up and your hand in your pocket like you’re maybe just maybe carrying a piece.

Duuuuude.

*If I wanted to spend $3000/mo to live in DC metro, actually I would probably go somewhere in WFC. Not kidding. My wife refuses to step foot in VA, though, so this is just theoretical.

 
 
Comment by SKB
2009-02-07 10:46:00

My landlord had a heart attack in December.

He had HELOCed his home that I am renting from him to the tune of 365,000 ( paid 101,000) in 1998.
He used a lot of that money and built a brand new home up in Northern Florida, sold his business up here and tried to get a new pool cleaning supply company going down there.
Business is not doing good and with the stress, payments etc.. had a major heart attack.

I get a call from my landlords wife, telling me that they need to move back into the home that I am renting from them.
Our lease had expired in November and we agreed to go onto a month to month to save the landlord the realtor fee they would have to pay if we signed another year lease. At the time is sounded great to us as we have been looking to buy a REO property and felt that when the right home came along it would be easy to give the month notice and move. Never did I think that they would want to move back here. If anything I thought that this home would end up back to the bank.

Now my landlords may not be very financially savvy but they are really nice people and we had socialized with them on occasion in the past and during the hurricane scares I had even been invited to stay with them up North.

This call last week blew me out of the water, they want to move back in here but they don’t want to inconvenience us to much. My landlords wife asked us if THEY COULD MOVE IN WITH US.

We currently have an offer on a home and have been now waiting for almost a month for the bank to respond. My realtor has called many times, re faxed documents, been on hold for endless amounts of time trying to get someone to even talk to her and it seems like they are simply dragging their heals on our offer and interest in buying the house.
My realtor even has the listing on this REO home. This is extremely frustrating to say the least.

We are now in a position to either have the landlord, wife and kid, one dog and a cat move into this home to SHARE WITH US or we have to find another rental that will accept our four dogs, one cat and two birds and move again to perhaps move again if and when the bank finally responds and hopefully accepts our offer.

We have looked at other homes and they are ALL either in contract or sitting with other offers waiting for banks to make decisions for short sales or what ever.
We looked at one home last week and five other couples showed up to look at it. I found out the next day that this home was already in contract when we looked at it and my realtor wasn’t told this.

I looked on the MLS and found three other homes to look at and all three were in contract.

What the hell, I have looked for anther rental and I can’t find anything suitable in our price range of 1400.00 per month.

We are screwed what are we going to do?

My husband doesn’t want our landlord to live with us, I am sort of ok with this idea as I like them but he will leave me if they move in.

HELP.

How can it be so difficult to find a FREAKING HOME TO BUY ??

Zip code 33470

Comment by Muir
2009-02-07 11:18:32

SKB,
I just saw 9 properties in the MLS under $1700.
In this market, I don’t see why it’s not worthwhile to try to get one of those cheaper.
Also, whoever didn’t rent for the Winter is now hurting as snowbirds have all found their winter nests by now.

Comment by SKB
2009-02-07 12:03:38

I called on some of those and they have been rented.

I am starting to think we are going to be homeless very soon.

Fu@king housing bubble ruined my life on so many levels.

Comment by Muir
2009-02-07 13:11:14

SKB,
I just moved from Jupiter, so I know the area.
The timing sucks, snowbirds and all.
Still, there were a ton of rentals in Dec. There’s a couple of Brokers that just do rentals in Jupiter.
There should be something in the $1400-$1500 range.
There’s got to be.
Don’t let yourself feel dragged down.
Tomorrow is Sunday, these brokers work Sundays.
I really think there’s a house for you at that price.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Muir
2009-02-07 13:13:26

Pick yourself up.
You know you gotta!

 
Comment by SKB
2009-02-07 18:56:22

Jupiter is to far away as I keep my horse in the zip code 33470.

I need Loxahatchee or Royal Palm Beach.

I never even thought of the snowbirds, that makes more sense now why there are so few rentals available.

I really feel sick over this now it just seems impossible for all of this including the fact that I lost my high paying job in December.

Thanks for the support to you and to everyone that has given their thoughts.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 22:38:21

COuple of ideas.. rent apt in your area,Cheap- till snowbird season is over, make a deal with a PET Sitter to care for your pets. Some kind of arrangement.
Rent would be really cheap for a few month to account for cost of pet sitter. I imagine pet sitters aren’t doing to well either in this economy. At least around here they aren’t doing as well as they once were.
Just some ideas.
There are so many places here in snowbird land, Desert, and lots of empty homes. And lots of apts available with 2 mo rent free.

GOOD LUCK!

Keep us informed and take a deep breath.
Your owners could take an apt ?

 
 
 
 
Comment by MightyMike
2009-02-07 13:04:31

I entered 33470 into Mapquest. I don’t know the area, but it looks like you’re out in the middle of nowhere about 10 - 15 miles west of Palm Beach. Have you looked in the area of Wes Palm? Aren’t there a lot of places to rent over there?

In retrospect, that was a risky thing to go month-to-month when you have all of those pets. It’s interesting how people’s lives can get intertwined. Your landlord has a heart attack and it throws your life into turmoil.

Comment by ouro verde
2009-02-07 15:50:25

My landlord hung himself in 2002. Good old mike. he was younger than me. He left two boys and a wife and three high valued properties.
I love my dogs so much that I have suffered in many living situations, except this time. I am sure you won’t be homeless.

Comment by BanteringBear
2009-02-07 18:17:41

It’s a shame this country is so dog unfriendly. What I don’t get- why do most rentals allow cats before dogs? Some of the worst animal damage I’ve ever seen has come from cats and their urine. Irresponsible pet owner ruin it for us good ones. In fact, the other day I was walking my dog at a park, and about 5 feet from the sign which reminds people to clean up after their dogs (even providing free bags) I stepped in a fresh pile of crap. Boy was I pissed. The nerve of some people.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 11:21:06

Most rentals charge a monthly ‘pet fee’ for cats, in anticipation of the carpet replacement to come.

I have seen some horrific damage from some people’s neurotic dogs. Yes, you are right about some ruining it for others. Not only do you have the doggy doots problem outside (we had that problem here despite multiple notices… yes, some people are that crass), the barking, the issue with “big breeds” which can be a hazard to children, and the renters who don’t want to be around dogs, you also have these ridiculous women who get these small, inbreed, already tending to be neurotic dogs, who then keep them inside most of the day. They then claw up everything within reach.

My parents got an upright piano CHEEP from such a dog owner. Mom figured even us kids couldn’t chew the thing up as badly as that dog already had.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-02-07 16:25:43

“We currently have an offer on a home and have been now waiting for almost a month for the bank to respond.”

That’s nothing. If they respond within 3 months, much less close, you’ll be one of the fortunate few.

“it seems like they are simply dragging their heals on our offer and interest in buying the house.”

Don’t be surprised if they finally come back with “give us your best offer.” It happens a lot. They try to get you to bid against yourself to drive the price up.

One thing I’d do is keep looking, but quit looking at bank properties. Those things just aren’t worth the hassle. Dealing with a motivated seller that’s not a bank is the only way you’re going to get a 30-45 day close IMHO.

Maybe you should also withdraw your offer and move on to a deal that can close quicker. If your realtor resists, you have the wrong realtor.

Comment by SKB
2009-02-07 18:48:23

Biano,

I hate to think that what your saying is the reality that it is.

The good thing about my realtor is the fact that she has been obviously not trying to hold us to anything.
The listing has expired on this house that we have the offer on and she is not renewing it for a while, she is trying everything for us to get this home, If we get it she may not even get paid.
She is a wonderful person and has told us to find a rental to as she is concerned that we will not have a home to live in very soon.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 22:41:49

Maybe you should also withdraw your offer and move on to a deal that can close quicker. If your realtor resists, you have the wrong realtor.

Good idea. Everyone hates it when they think they have lost something.
Could be good move for you to rescind offer.

And snowbird season is OVER in 2 months. So, rescind offer and pay for cheap apt for owners for 2 months. Enough time for you to find a great place for your menagerie of companions.

 
 
Comment by ahansen
2009-02-07 17:52:26

SKB,
I have always had great (and near-immediate,) response to a “want to rent” ad placed in the local “Pennysaver” or similar throwaway printed newspaper.
Stress that you are quiet, security-minded, have sterling references, and are open to negotiation. Alternately, you might want to consider putting a lot of your stuff in storage, buying some portable corral fencing for your dogz, and renting in an RV park until the house comes through. (Again, place an ad and ask the manager if anyone with a vacant RV might be amenable to a month-to-month rental.)
Hang in there!

Comment by SKB
2009-02-07 18:43:15

ahansen,

Wow, that is quite a suggestion :)

I may have to do just that.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 22:45:47

Over in 2 months. Snowbird season is over end of March/April.
2.6 months. Max. You will make it and are you making offers prematurely? Just in a hurry?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Fresno Dude
2009-02-07 20:07:45

The house I am renting could be sold at any time on a short sale, so we bought a 5th wheel trailer as backup and it cost only $2800. Prices are really low now. Most trailers have such shoddy construction that you cannot live in them full time, they just fall apart. The 5th wheels are better made than travel trailers. Here is a list of the best 5th wheel trailers someone put on www dot rv dot net. The manufacturer is listed first then the upscale models that they make:

Carriage - Cameo, Carri-Lite, Carriage, Royals, Domani

DoubleTree - Elite Suites, Mobile Suites, Select Suites

Excel - RT, Classic, Limited, Wild Cargo

Forest River - Day Dreamer

Heartland - Landmark

Holiday Rambler - Presidential Suites, Presidential, Alumascape Suite,

Alumascape, Next Level

Jayco - Emblem, Entegra, Designer

K-Z - Escalade

Keystone - Big Sky

Newmar - Kountry Aire, Torrey Pine, X-Aire, Cypress

NuWa - Hitchhiker II LS, Hitchhiker Discover America, Hitchhiker Champagne

SunnyBrook - West Pointe

Comment by Mot
2009-02-08 09:51:53

Yep, we’re down to listing trailers on the HBB! :-)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by Leighsong
2009-02-07 19:58:37

My husband doesn’t want our landlord to live with us, I am sort of ok with this idea as I like them but he will leave me if they move in.

HELP.

Probably not much help, but have you looked on craigslist, yeah, sounds lame.

I checked out the zip code and there seems to be quite an offering.

I’m half thinking you’re kidding about hubby leaving you?

Shite!

Turn off the part of your brain telling you “This can work” and tune into what your family and YOU need.

Don’t chance YOUR happiness - O.K.?

Even for a second - just don’t do it.

Best Always,
Leigh

Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 22:49:38

I enjoy the hbb for many reasons and one is that when serious, many good ideas and encouragement come forth with sincerity (sp?)

Comment by silverback1011
2009-02-08 07:05:51

I would never attempt to combine two households and two sets of pets. You know, you can just keep paying the rent and just stay put ( while desperately looking for alternate housing ) for awhile. It takes months to evict somebody. Once you let your landlord move into “their” property with you, then they have a foothold on getting you out. Keep your husband. Don’t let them move in with you.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by SKB
2009-02-08 12:40:29

Yes you are right.

I hate the eviction thought though…..I just can’t see myself renting another house at this point.

I really want to wait a few months to see what is going to happen on my house offer.

 
 
 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 11:11:51

LL sounds like a real winner. We’ve already had, like four freezes in North Central Florida already this season. Did no one tell him that the pool supply industry is already oversaturated here? That most folks are broke and swim in the local springs anyway? That those with pools don’t maintain ‘em and the mosquito squad has to come around and drain ‘em in the summer? That the landlords sure as heck don’t keep theirs clean (about 1/2 of the apt pools in GNV are nasty… other half are okay). I mean, come on, dude! This is not Miami. What a tool.

Pool sales have been way off since 2006. I think at least one of those places has already closed up shop. I drive by this place daily that advertises “pool, spa, billiards” and I have to laugh… the HELOCs have stopped here.

Now, a good business down here would be weatherstripping! Do an energy use analysis and install water heater jackets, glaze windows, strip doors and windows, install electronic thermostats, insulate kitchen, etc. Most people here lose thousands every year through their leaky house. Who cares if your A/C unit is efficient if you blow it out the door anyway? And does it get cold in the winter with electric heat!

Hm, your LL comes from up north, selling weatherstripping to the local yokels should be a snap, especially when they have $300-500 energy bills IN WINTER to cry about.

One tip, though: don’t extend credit to these people. Get paid in cash.

Comment by SKB
2009-02-08 12:38:11

That is a very good suggestion on the weather stripping idea.

I do think that they are done up North though. It was not as great as they thought it would be living like hermits up in the bush.

If you can imagine they built a massive new beautiful home on several acres thinking this was going to be the next Aero Club in Wellington.
They got a five year arm and were convinced beyond a doubt that the home would go up in value.
I think they finally see that this is not going to happen.
They are going go the jingle mail route.
A bit of a twist considering they HELOCed the house I am renting to buy the land and to get a down payment on that house. To think they are going to move back into this house and actually pay for all of that HELOCing is unusual.

To think he sold a successful pest control business for all of that.

 
 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-02-07 11:11:40

Allen Sinai, chief global economist and president of Decision Economics, a New York-based research and forecasting firm, recently ran various types of government actions through his respected macroeconomic model of the U.S. He discovered some surprising things.

First, even a very large stimulus doesn’t help the economy a lot. The negative forces are too strong — centered on the credit collapse and the collapse in consumer spending. Government will lean against this stunning downturn but can’t make up for the massive loss of private demand.

Furthermore, the larger the budget deficit, from tax cuts and spending, the bigger the bounce in expected future inflation and long-term interest rates. That will take the edge off future growth.

Sinai forecasts a stimulus-based gain in gross domestic product of perhaps 2 percentage points in the first year and 1 point in the following year compared with where we’d be otherwise. A turn could come as early as summer. Without a significant stimulus, he’d expect the recession to last into March 2010.

More pessimistic economists expect it to last that long anyway. The ugliest months lie directly ahead.
————————————————————————-
” expected future inflation ” and then the FED will tighten and we will go back to recession just like 1937 or the FED will let inflation run “just to be sure” either way the steady growth of 1980-2000 seems over.

guy at work just bought a house very happy to get 15K tax credit.
he will rent out his paid off Duplex home and live in the new house. He expects furure inflation

me I expect 10 more years of hard living as the FED mico manages the economy. This may include periods of deflation and inflation as the American standard of living stalls out under too much debt.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 11:22:04

“More pessimistic economists expect it to last that long anyway. The ugliest months lie directly ahead.”

And I expect the NBER to announce the recession’s end in 2009-2010, but the lingering effects (e.g. housing price collapse) to go on to 2012 and beyond.

 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-02-07 13:27:52

I can understand now when folks here have been saying that all of us, even responsible savers, will be fooked. I’m prepared adequately for myself but still have the potential of bailing out a sister who cashed out her 403B when she quit her job in October.

Instead of my saying “Save in the good times so you can spend in the bad times” it may well be “Save in the good times and survive in the bad times.”

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-07 17:18:49

Bill,

I’m in the same boat. I saw this coming a long time ago and prepared accordingly, and we’re reasonably secure, financially and income-wise. But already I’m getting indications that we’re going to be a lifeline for family members, friends and relatives who might be in dire straits before too long.

Comment by Anon In DC
2009-02-07 18:57:37

Hey me too, Have given $ to a sister and want be Trump husband. Tried to talked the out of the RE game 3 - 4 years ago, but they went full throttle. I don’t begruge the money. It was not enough to bother me. Rather lose it than tell them no I will not help. They been very good / kind to me over the years. But I think the relatively little I gave them won’t make a difference to what I think will be their eventual bankruptcy. Have been approached by other relatives. They got nothing. They’re just sprend thrifts rather than people who are not too sophisticated about money

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by B. Durbin
2009-02-07 19:29:38

I am so very thankful at this point that I’m considered the financially irresponsible one of the bunch. :)

Okay, my family includes two corporate siblings and a rocket scientist, so maybe I’m just the low-income one of the bunch.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
 
Comment by cactus
2009-02-07 11:20:12

The other person at work who is going bankrupt and giving his house back is annoyed at person2 who is buying now at the “bottom”

haha anyway bankrupt person said he will post his whole story here I can’t keep it straight anyway.

Comment by reuven
2009-02-07 11:50:58

That was another theme in the Feb 9th New Yorker Article (Florida Foreclosed: The Ponzi State). New residents to development get resentment from neighbors who bought at 2x the price. One woman said that none of the other residents who bought at the peak would even speak to her!

I’m stunned by how petty these FBs are. They’re essentially folks with an idolatrous attraction to the illusion of material wealth and consumer goods.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 13:11:53

‘One woman said that none of the other residents who bought at the peak would even speak to her!’

Well, good. Right? I mean, who wants to waste precious time talking to proven idiots?

Comment by Anon In DC
2009-02-07 13:19:30

Thanks for the GOOD LAUGH !!!!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Kirisdad
2009-02-07 14:40:12

ROTFL!!!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by Hwy50ina49Dodge
2009-02-07 15:18:38

:-)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-07 17:21:26

Oh man, that’s an easy fix. The burned Bubbleonians may not speak to me, but I’ll certainly laugh at them. And wave merrily as their U-Hauls start pulling away in the dead of night.

 
 
 
Comment by Ernest
2009-02-07 11:43:33

Boston Properties Suspends $980 Million Skyscraper

Boston Properties Inc., the biggest U.S. office landlord, plans to suspend construction on a $980 million midtown Manhattan skyscraper after a law firm abandoned plans to lease space there.
“Recently the law firm informed the company that it could not proceed on those terms, thereby rendering the project economically infeasible in today’s environment,” the Boston- based company said today in a statement. The 1 million square- foot tower at 250 West 55th St. and Eighth Avenue was scheduled for completion in 2011.

Office building owners are being battered by the U.S. recession, with the 14-member Bloomberg Office REIT Index losing 51 percent in the past year. Manhattan office vacancies rose to 7.6 percent in the fourth quarter, the highest since 2004, broker CB Richard Ellis Group Inc. said last month. Lending has also dried up as financial companies have taken more than $1 trillion of writedowns and credit-market losses.

“It has more to do with the state of financial markets than the merits of individual projects,” said Dan Fasulo, market analysis director at Real Capital Analytics Inc. in New York. “Lenders don’t want additional exposure to commercial real estate at this point. There’s nothing we can do about it but wait this out.”

Valuable Tower

A completed building on that site would have fetched $1,500 a square foot during the peak of the real estate market in 2007, Fasulo said. That would value the tower at $1.5 billion and made it one of the most expensive in the city, he said.

Boston Properties acquired some of the development rights for the West 55th Street site in May 2008 for about $34.2 million, according to company filings. It said it had invested $401.7 million in the project as of Sept. 30, 2008. It estimated its total investment would be $980 million, according to regulatory filings.

 
Comment by SdGuy
2009-02-07 12:00:23

Anyone know what happened to nextag real estate section?
It had good info on past sales and comps.The pages have disappeared from the website.
My guess is they couldnt keep up with all the changes.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-02-07 12:01:49

Cargo volume falls at U.S. ports

http://tinyurl.com/ctmvuo

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 15:25:59

Financial Times
Baltic Dry index up on signs of recovery
By Javier Blas
Published: February 4 2009 11:17 | Last updated: February 4 2009 11:17

The Baltic Dry index benchmark for freight costs for dry bulk commodities such as iron ore, coal and iron rose almost 15 per cent, the biggest daily increase in almost 25 years, on signs of a recovery in the raw materials trade.

Shipping brokers said that demand for the largest vessels, known as Capesizes, was slowly recovering as Chinese steelmakers bought more iron ore from Australia and Brazil after running down their ore inventories.

The Baltic Dry index rose 14.6 per cent to 1,316 points, its highest in 3½ months. The index is still well below last year’s all-time high of 11,793 points, but has recovered 98.5 per cent from its December 22-year low of 663 points.

Comment by measton
2009-02-08 00:24:54

Could this be due to China and others deciding to get rid of dollars and hold iron coal ect?

 
 
 
Comment by Muggy
2009-02-07 13:17:50

Clearwater Beach is now completely wrecked with stalled renovations. Still had a nice lunch with the wifers and my lilhomie. Check out the stuffy country-clubbers in the background… probably hedgies.

i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/muggyFL/IMG_2.jpg

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-02-07 14:56:38

Hey, that’s one cute and happy Muglet.

Tell him he’s gonna get a ride on a yacht called Blue Skye when he comes to NY!

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 15:24:46

Oh, heavens! Lookit! Mini-muggy’s somehow even cuter than before! Say, isn’t he only 11 months old or something? How come he’s sitting up so perky and looking so wise? Sassy, too. Definitely. I detect this.
Now I really must have him. How much you want?

…Well, I understand you and your wife are probably all attached to the little guy, and so forth. *regretful sigh * So I’ll just echo Bluesky’s sentiments. Except I have no yacht to offer, so it’ll have to be assorted kayaks. He can be in the one painted to look like a giant golden banana. He likes bananas, right?

Comment by Blano
2009-02-07 16:35:01

Take me, Oly. I’m as cute as lil’ Muggy, and I can even chop wood.

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-07 22:54:05

cute as a button

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 15:21:01

You are blessed. I remember well when my kids were that age — what a pleasure!

Comment by Muggy
2009-02-07 15:34:09

Thanks - in a weird way the bubble has blessed me: as a result of the bust, daycare was way too unstable and expensive, so I switched jobs and stay home with him.

Blue, you raised 4 kids in the Finger Lakes, yes? My wife thinks it’s too boonie, I disagree. What do your kids think now that they’re older?

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-02-07 17:35:08

My kids….they made better friends here than any other place they have lived. Honest friends. The ones that are gone miss it, but they have to work!

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-02-07 17:49:56

Thanks - in a weird way the bubble has blessed me: as a result of the bust, daycare was way too unstable and expensive, so I switched jobs and stay home with him.

For the time being, at least, I’m having a grand old time staying at home with my critter as well. I never thought I’d have the chance, really.

It’s great. (Except for the occasional meltdowns and poo-splosions, but those come with the territory.)

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by Muggy
2009-02-07 18:28:35

Hey ET, I was thinking about you the other day. I was talking to the guy I do freelance for out of NYC… the only work they have is TV, ads are dead for now. Anyway, are you a copyist, graphic designer?

I tried to help DJ a while back, no luck… but it wouldn’t hurt to have an extra set of eyes looking.

I am not planning on picking up much freelance work in 2009, but we’ll see.

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-02-07 18:43:33

Hey, Muggy, thanks for thinkin’ of me.

In my last two jobs I’ve split my time between web design / development and Mac-centric IT for designers. I can go either route, I guess. I’ve got some freelance in the pipeline, as well as some resumes circulating.

 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-02-07 19:54:57

Muggy:

Thanks…the only work right now is on the reality “scripted” shows. My friend who worked at CNN hates them long boring hours and a lot of the producers wont even let you sit on a stool. Let alone deal with the mindless self absorbed trailer trash.

That’s why they want young kids, its not discrimination its just better to have a crew that like the shows and will have all their friends watch it.

Fun music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPBYiiFR76I

 
 
 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 15:28:16

Where’s my post? The only poss*ibly object*ional part was when I asked if I could buy him.
Or else was it the ‘kay*ak painted to look like a giant gol*den ba*nana’ part?

Oh, these filters…

 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-02-07 17:42:20

Dang, he’s lookin’ soooooo big and smart.

 
 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 14:56:36

High-profile Coloradans on list of Madoff’s clients

http://tinyurl.com/aqkc2e

‘Some of the names on the list are straight off the Aspen black-tie-party circuit. The former headmaster of Aspen Country Day School. Authors. A sculptor. Realtors. Retired financiers and venture capitalists. A theater producer. The board president of the Aspen Art Museum. A former Miss World USA. Several philanthropists.

Bob Ritchie, a longtime Aspen Realtor who last month said he knew many locals who lost their investments when Madoff tumbled, …”All these people got so confident — with 12 percent returns, up to 18 percent — they leveraged their homes and made all this cash. But those people are bumming, and they really don’t want their names all over,” Ritchie said. “I would expect some of those homes to come onto the market.”

I am really having a hard time not laughing. Oh, wait… I AM laughing.*

*Except for the philanthropists orgs getting skint part. But that’s if they really WERE philanthropist organizations, that is.
Oh, I know–how about if I only laugh a little bit over those ones, just in case.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-02-07 16:03:35

(Neglected to include my most favorite quote in the article)

“He seemed very professional and very calm. Didn’t give me any answers to my questions,” said Rosenkrantz, a sales manager for a construction company.

Oh. Well, then.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 15:14:41

The Fed’s super-low interest rates may offer tempting gambling opportunities for hedge fund investors who somehow avoided losing all their money thus far.

Hedge funds eye up Fed borrowing
By Aline van Duyn in New York
Published: February 6 2009 02:00 | Last updated: February 6 2009 02:00

Hedge funds are showing interest in potentially borrowing money from the Federal Reserve to buy securities backed by auto loans.

In the next week or two, the Fed is expected to announce the terms under which investors can borrow from its new $200bn Term Asset-backed Lending Facility (Talf), which will determine whether hedge funds will be able to borrow cheaply enough to make investments in the auto loan-backed securities worthwhile.

Bank of America and Barclays Capital are currently marketing a $500m bond called World Omni backed by recently issued auto loans. Once the Talf terms are set, that deal could be eligible to be financed with Talf funds.

“Haircuts and interest rates have yet to be set and will obviously be crucial to investment decisions,” said Chris Flanagan, head of asset-backed research at JP Morgan.

Comment by ouro verde
2009-02-07 15:59:40

As a matter of fact, now would be a great time to buy a hair studio. I could do haircuts and family photos or just snap up a building. would I get 15k and more goodies?
How much has commercial stuff gone down in SD?

Comment by hoz
2009-02-07 22:08:24

Would you sell beer on the side? Pretty pulhease

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-08 11:34:13

economic stimulus–got my hair cut yesterday. $15 with tip. Paid cash.

poor lady is really squeezed. I only get cut every 6-7 weeks (wife seems to squawk if it’s more frequently, but seriously, my hair is a major disaster if it gets too shaggy, we’re talking ‘must wear hat to cover the mess’).

less employment, less haircuts. she’s so nice, does a good job, tries to be a mensch in her business dealings and dealings with local gov’t, and never charged bubble prices during the bubble … I feel like an ass for paying so little. :P

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-07 16:06:42

If I see one more key REIC player calling the mortgage meltdown “unprecedented,” I think I am going to heave. Prediction: Next year, when prime heads the same direction as yesterday’s subprime and today’s Alt-A, Moody’s will say that is “unprecedented” as well, even though it will be completely predictable to anyone who has been paying attention.

The question which comes to my mind: Will Uncle Sam be the “senior holder” by the time this fiasco is over?

Finance and economics
Mortgage losses
Move over, subprime
Feb 5th 2009 | NEW YORK
From The Economist print edition
Decay is spreading to the upper floors of America’s mortgage market

Even as credit markets, particularly corporate-debt markets, show some signs of improvement, mortgage loans to supposedly better-heeled Americans are souring at a gut-wrenching rate.

Of particular concern are “Alt-A” mortgages, offered to borrowers sandwiched between subprime and prime. This market was trumpeted as a means of extending home ownership to those, such as the self-employed, with a reasonable credit standing but unsteady income. Its practitioners specialised in loans with scant documentation and exotica such as negative-amortisation mortgages, which allow borrowers to pay less than the accrued interest, with the difference added to the loan balance.

That Alt-A has troubles comes as no surprise. Last summer, for instance, it helped to bring down IndyMac, a Californian bank. But the speed with which loans have soured in recent months, and the reaction of rating agencies, have been startling. Delinquencies rocketed in the final months of 2008. They even rose sharply for loans made in 2005, before underwriting turned really sloppy (see chart).

The rating agencies are rushing to catch up with this grim reality. Moody’s, which last summer had issued a sanguine outlook for Alt-A, recently quadrupled its loss projections on bonds backed by such loans. A steady flow of downgrades has turned into a flood in recent weeks, with thousands of Alt-A tranches taking the plunge. The falls have been unusually steep: of the $59 billion of AAA-rated securities that Moody’s cut between January 29th and February 2nd, an astonishing 91% went straight to junk, according to Laurie Goodman of Amherst Securities. In ratings terms, Alt-A is doing worse than subprime.

Moody’s calls this “unprecedented”. That is putting it mildly. It now expects losses for 2006-07 Alt-A securitisations to top 20%, compared with an historical average of well under 1%. In an ugly echo of the fiasco over collateralised-debt obligations, holders lower down the structure can expect total write-offs, while the vast majority of senior holders will not be spared substantial losses.

Comment by SdGuy
2009-02-07 18:53:32

I like this part.
“Part of the problem is that much of the Alt-A lending came at the tail-end of the credit boom in late 2006 and early 2007. By then, subprime was already getting a bad name. So Wall Street hit on a ruse: it took borrowers who in normal times would have been subprime and dressed them up as “mid-prime”. Many of these loans were doomed from the start. According to the Bank for International Settlements, a staggering 40% of American mortgages originated in the first quarter of 2007 were interest-only or negative-amortisation loans.”

The full article here.

http://www.economist.com/finance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13062194

 
Comment by ouro verde
2009-02-07 19:20:49

Everybody here, get out your hardhats and watch out for flying stucco!

 
Comment by nhz
2009-02-08 04:19:09

again I can only wonder why the Dutch government purchased the whole 35 billion ING Direct Alt-A package for about 90% of the original loan value just two weeks ago.

According to rumours some ‘wizkid’ (probably an economist) at the department of Finance made a computer model that predicts that the government is going to make lots of money on this deal, but nobody understands what is behind the model …

 
 
 
Comment by reuven
2009-02-07 19:47:53

Times has an article about the FBs of Lehigh Valley

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/us/08lehigh.html

Obama’s going to visit and promise them all that he’ll get their prices up again and they’ll all get free houses. Or something like that.

 
Comment by hoz
2009-02-07 22:19:06

Wednesday, February 04, 2009
How To Sell A House

“An anonymous comment to the next-to-last post, made in Spanish, relayed some housing market information interesting to those who would like to know what it takes to move a residential property in Spain at this moment. We translate (hoping that he or she might have an idea how many units were involved):

Officially, house prices in Spain have dropped 5%. In the meantime, the financial institution in which I work (and I imagine the rest of the banks) has been offering real estate, recently taken back from promotors in lieu of loan repayment or foreclosure, out the back door to its employees at discounts of 35% from original prices - with 100% financing. Almost all were sold within a month.

Also, they are offering foreclosed homes from individuals at substantial discounts, rather than selling them by auction, as would normally be the case.

We can only think that employees taking up the offer would be awarded the added extra of an implicit job guarantee.”
from IBEX Salad - The Spanish stock market, economy and the olive oil business.

The joy of trying to conduct business in the PIGS.

Comment by nhz
2009-02-08 04:13:26

don’t forget that Spain has this funny new subsidy where the government pays half of your mortgage for 2 years if you lose your job … and after those 2 years I have no doubt there will be bright new ideas to prop up the housing market, just like in the rest of Old Europe.

(most of my replies yesterday went into the black hole, let’s see if this one comes up …)

 
 
Name (required)
E-mail (required - never shown publicly)
URI
Your Comment (smaller size | larger size)
You may use <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong> in your comment.

Trackback responses to this post