Countdown To Las Vegas - Day 9
For those in the process of finalizing your registration plans, please wrap this up as we are waiting to place the T-shirt order.
A report from the Las Vegas Sun. “Anyone looking to regain the appreciation they lost on their homes during the correction over the last 18 months is going to have to wait awhile, according to Scott Dugan, one of the leading appraisers in Las Vegas. Dugan says the local housing market is about to be hit by another wave of foreclosures — possibly three to four thousand — that could send prices spiraling down even further. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have had a moratorium on foreclosures that lifts at the end of January, he says.”
“‘We are going to get hit with another wave of listings that may, in turn, drive down the market further than where it is today,’ Dugan says.”
“One market that investors are no longer pursuing is condominiums, especially the condo-hotel market, Dugan says. ‘That market is gone,’ he says. ‘It used to be a nice market, but not anymore. Financing has dried up.’”
“Units at the MGM Signature, for example, have fallen 60 percent to 70 percent in value for anyone who purchased them in 2006 and 2007, he says. Residential condominiums have fallen 40 percent to 50 percent in value in the last two years and that market is still falling with no end in sight, he adds.”
“Las Vegas research firm SalesTraq reports that of the 15 high-rise projects in the valley, nearly half have less than 60 percent of the units sold. And of those already sold, a growing number are in foreclosure proceedings. The state of the condo market and inability of developers to close out units are expected to lead developers to rent units until the market rebounds.”
“Streamline Towers in downtown Las Vegas, for example, has closed on only 10 percent of its 275 units, according to SalesTraq. One Las Vegas has closed on 15 percent of its units. Condominium sales have slowed because the credit crunch has prevented many buyers from securing financing. Others have simply walked away from their deposits because the opportunity to flip the units is gone as the units have decreased in value.”
“Newport Lofts, a downtown Las Vegas residential condominium project that has closed on 64 percent of its units, has slashed prices in half in some cases with units going for under $200,000, SalesTraq President Larry Murphy said. The reason in part is developers are competing against their own buyers who are selling their units as part of short sales to ward off foreclosure.”
“‘We have homeowners who for the most part bought as an investment and intended to flip them to make a profit,’ Murphy said. ‘The first ones in were those who had success, but we are seeing a substantial amount of foreclosures for (the second wave) buyers who paid higher prices. We are seeing foreclosures in the high-rise market just like the rest of the housing market. It is not immune.’”
“With only 58 percent of the condominium units closed in Las Vegas, passers-by see plenty of unlit rooms at night, Murphy said. That already is a common occurrence because many condominium buyers are purchasing second homes and spend only part of the year here, he said.”
“What stands out in the statistics is that Trump has closed on only 22 percent of its 1,282 units while Palms has closed on 57 percent even though both started closing about the same time, said Steve Bottfeld, executive VP of Marketing Solutions.. As the credit market was drying up, properties with a higher number of closings had better programs in place to retain buyers and help them obtain financing, Bottfeld said.”
“‘The question you have to ask yourself is what went wrong,’ Bottfeld said. ‘I think (Trump is) the poster child for what went wrong in high rises (because of the credit crunch).’”
“Sky Las Vegas and Turnberry Towers…aren’t offering discounts but renting out units and waiting to sell them when the market returns, analysts said. ‘They are holding back because they know it is going to be several years before high rises are going to be built again, and they are not going to give them away because of the current market situation,’ luxury high-rise Realtor Bruce Hiatt said. ‘They know once they are gone, they are gone.’”
The Economist. “For a glimpse of the old, confident Las Vegas, visit its newest hotel. Steve Wynn’s vaguely Chinese-themed Encore, which opened in December, is packed with heavy draperies and well-drilled staff. It has thousands of indoor flowers, flat-screen televisions in the bathrooms and a restaurant where the décor changes every half-hour or so. One of its boutiques sells a bejewelled object adorned with a butterfly for $269. Closer inspection reveals it to be a toothbrush-holder.”
“No doubt it seemed like a good idea two-and-a-half years ago, when work began on the hotel. Today it seems delusional. Such a quick decline (see chart) would be painful anywhere. In a state with a tradition of boosterism it has caused something of an existential crisis. Perhaps the most shocking news to locals is that Clark County’s population, which more than doubled between 1990 and 2007, has declined slightly in the past year.”
“‘We thought the only business cycle was up,’ laments John Restrepo, a Las Vegas consultant.”
March 31, 2006. “Housing prices are flat, high-rise condo projects are canceling sales, and now land values have dropped by almost half in Las Vegas, local research firm Applied Analysis reported. The average price for an acre of vacant land in the valley was $376,200 in the fourth quarter, down 47 percent from the previous quarter and down 28 percent from the same quarter a year ago.”
“Several factors contributed to the decline in land prices, Brian Gordon said Wednesday….’Land prices that shot up by as much as 99 percent during the past 18 months are ‘clearly unsustainable,’ Gordon said.”
March 30, 2006. “The $3 billion Las Ramblas luxury condominium-hotel project backed by actor George Clooney is no longer taking reservations at its sales office on Convention Center Drive. ‘The sales office is not closed,’ Related Las Vegas President Marty Burger said Tuesday. ‘There are lots of rumors. Don’t believe everything you hear. When something is concrete, we’ll call you. I can’t talk about it now. Sorry.’”
“Paula James, vice president of the Curve, said sales have been suspended, but the project has not been canceled. Developers had a 180-day contingency period to reach 75 percent presales required for financing and failed to meet that goal, she said. ‘Most lenders want to see at least 60 percent in presales before signing off on financing. ‘It (presale percentages) kept going up as the media got more negative,’ James said. ‘The number kept going up as other properties continued to not be built. It just made lenders nervous.’”
“Bob Joseph said he liked the looks and location of the Curve, but he didn’t like the contract. The deal, he said, allowed the developer to change the floor plan specifications and required the buyer to pay the escrow fee and seller’s tax. ‘That’s when I started to say it’s not the right deal,’ he said. ‘We were looking at it as a rental. If there’s going to be a glut of condos built in Las Vegas, it’s not going to be a seller’s market.’”
March 28, 2006. “Paul Murad, a condo developer and author of ‘Manhattanizing Las Vegas,’ said the city was not ready for a high-rise project in the suburbs. ‘You can’t blame it on construction, you can’t blame it on architecture,’ he said. ‘We’re finding that people who like the suburbs like the suburban lifestyle and that means a single-family home. A high-rise in a suburban family setting is a bit premature.’”
“It’s much tougher to convince developers about projects in the suburban market, said (developer) Tim Sullivan. ‘My thought is if we had the Curve developed, it would be highly successful,’ he said. ‘But they’ve got to prove it. Right now, there’s a lot more hype than reality.’”
Sigh. This time of year is the busiest for me, and I just couldn’t get away for the Vegas meet up. I was very sad when it became clear to me that I couldn’t. Very, VERY sad—I even had to go drink a bunch of beer in order to self-medicate my sorrow away. Or maybe that episode was because I lost one of my favorite little pink flower earrings; I forget. Look, grief is grief! Show some sympathy!
But I had a good idea last night! How about if I get one of those life-sized cardboard images made of myself and post it to where you guys are meeting? Then you can bring me along on the merry tours of foreclosures, and perch me by the bar, and later take turns making me stagger drunkenly down the Strip singing Toby Keith songs loudly and unprettily, and hanging off the balcony laughing…
Hey! You could use me to hit any builders or realtors you encounter! Take me to strip clubs! (I like Vegas strip clubs) All sorts of entirely inappropriate things!
And then could even all sign me and mail me back!
I think this is an idea with a lot of promise.
Except no one better puke on the cardboard ‘me’, during the bar and strip- club portion of events. I’d get all soggy, and that’d pi*ss me off.
Those of you that are going, make a note of that, right now. Muggy, mikey, PB, clue, SanFranGal, and the secret party- animal Mr. Ben Jones himself—I’m talkin’ to YOU.
I’m not sure which direction to take the “getting soggy at the strip club” thing…all kinds of ways one could get in trouble with that one.
Well, drumminj, here’s some helpful rules for your strip club marathon event, just for you:
1. ‘Soggy from puke is bad.’
2. ‘Soggy from beer, wine-coolers, martini’s, or ice-water is good.’
Well, relatively good. Show some restraint, man!
And there you go. No, no—don’t thank me, good sir.
I exist only to serve.
I will not be there. I’m bummed, too. Basically it comes down to the fact that my wife is not comfortable leaving our littleman yet, and we think the travel would be too difficult at his age.
Lastly, I could go by myself, but that’s not fair to my waaaayyy better half.
Well, your ‘way better half’ is wise. Who wants to have to go out to an abandoned and foreclosed-on Las Vegas ghost-town subdivision and drive around hollering ‘Muggy! Muggyyyyy!’, out the truck window. Huh, huh?
And then we’ll locate you by your drunken giggles, there where you are, lodged half in and half out of a section of drywall that you tried to run through before you weakened from all the laughing, there upside down with your legs kicking feebly… and probably the rest of you will be painted blue, and you won’t even remember why that seemed like a good idea when you started.
Sigh. I can just imagine it. Disgraceful!
* gives a reproachful and lofty sniff *
Yeah, she’d be mad at us, and never let you get on the HBB again.
Sorry, mikey won’t be in Vegas this time.
I think the States of California and Nevada as well as Vegas still have outstanding warrants out on me from my last visit many years ago. An old girlfriend from Monterey and I kinda borrowed her Dad’s little red Maserati for a week.
GOD… Do I ever MISS that car
Actually I’ve been sticking close to home and the phone. We lost a very close family friend last night but my Mom, brother and sister may attend the services for me if I don’t fly up to Minnesota .
Sorry to hear about your loss mikey. You and your family are are in our thoughts.
We’ll miss you in Vegas.
Take the cardboard box to work and head out to Vegas baby! Some people are coming in Saturday and leaving Sunday - you really can’t get away for two days to have brilliant conversations about housing bubbles and frogs?
‘…for two days to have brilliant conversations about housing bubbles and frogs?’
Oh, yeah, huh! Frogs! Bink, the male lingerie model, said he will be there, snuggling with his amphibian pals…and there’s the buffets…
Stop it!
The whole purpose of this blog is that the truth can’t be stopped.
Oly, you ever read the book “Half Asleep in Frog Pajamas” by Tom Robbins? Lady at the local book store recommended it. Based in Seattle, deals with housing, trouble in the financial markets, and frogs+amphibians play a prominent role. Might be up your alley!
No, I have not. I’ll go get it right this VERY minute.
Oly, if you’re seriously interested I can drop it in the post your way. I got it used for $4. It’s surprisingly intellectual while still funny. It was recommended as a substitute for Christopher Moore (since they didn’t have any of his books).
‘It was recommended as a substitute for Christopher Moore (since they didn’t have any of his books).’
I LOVE Christopher Moore. Have you read ‘A Dirty Job’?
I’ve read some Tom Robbins before, ‘Even Cowgirls get the Blues’, and Jitterbug Perfume. I think he wrote those. Good stuff. I just kinda lost track of him as an author, in the huge shuffle of books.
I’m actually in the process of reading ‘A Dirty Job’ at the moment. 30 pages in or so.
Are any of the other Tom Robbins books any good?
‘Are any of the other Tom Robbins books any good?’
Yes. I liked ‘Skinny Legs and All’ a lot, and ‘Still Life with Woodpecker’. Good stuff. I’m going to go dig them out of where they’re lurking somewhere on my shelves. See you in a few days.
I loved “Another Roadside Attraction”. Thought it was the best of em all.
Sorry you can’t join us Olygal, I was looking forward to meeting you in the flesh. Now it will have to be in the cardboard.
I plan to sell “nuptial pads” for the strip-club visits. Those frogs sure are smart.
And I’m afraid I exaggerated my male lingerie model experience… but yet the charges were dropped, so it stays on the resume.
Hahahahaahah! Hahahahaha!
Good post!
We could set you up on GO TO MEETING or streeming web cam or somthing?
Whoooo hooo! I had another good idea last night, when I was drowsing off. I get all my best ideas when I’m drunk, or drowsing off, or having a long hot bath.
You know what, one day I’m going to get in the bathtub full of hot bubbley water with a 6 pack and go to sleep! And on that glorious day I will surely have the sooper-dooper best genious idea I ever ever had!*
*And let’s hope it’s not ‘Maybe I can breathe underwater if I want’.
No, no, I mean a REAL genious idea, sort of event.
“If there’s going to be a glut of condos built in Las Vegas, it’s not going to be a seller’s market.’””
Still??? Why is this guy talking like it’s 2004? What a dumb statement…does he have any clue as to what’s going on now?
Still??? Why is this guy talking like it’s 2004?
Because lots of people out there still think that what is happening in housing and the economy is not a meltdown caused by too much leverage and too lax lending. They think it’s a “temporary set-back” and when the FED and CONgress get more spending going on……….then in about a year or so……..things will turn right around and we will be back to inflation on housing of 20-30% per year where it belongs.
This will allow people like him who think they are entitled to low-cash “investments” to cash in on the new FED inflation. That’s what Amerika is all about. Easy money for morons.
I think not, but then I’m in the minority.
Bingo, diogenes.
Like many others here, all I keep hearing from everyone is how they are just going to hold on through this **temporary** rough patch.
I’m not saying we’ll never see peak prices, but I doubt we’ll see them in decades, inflation-adjusted.
Who knows? Maybe they’re right and we’re all idiots. Maybe the Fed can magicaly make housing prices float above their intrinsic value forever; while wages, pensions, and jobs in general are decimated. (shrugs)
“I’m not saying we’ll never see peak prices, but I doubt we’ll see them in decades, inflation-adjusted.”
Oh no, you don’t need to hedge your bets like that. Inflation adjusted we will NEVER see the peak prices again. In nominal price, we will see them eventually (10-15 years) because of inflation. But, to see them again inflation adjusted? It will never happen; for it to happen again, we would have to resume 10X income loans, no-doc, no-down, etc, etc, etc. That will not happen while any of those that live through this bubble/bust are still alive. The psyche of the American public has been changed permanently, until we are all dead and gone, we will never see what we’ve just been through happening again.
The only way the Fed could possibly do what you suggest is to offer 0% loans on homes. That would dramatically alter the payment profile on a loan, and would forever inflate the prices on homes. But, anything less then that, simply will not work. Even a 4% loan has tons of interest paid out, it simply doesn’t alter the 3X income rule very much, if at all (because you HAVE to assume home values will fall when interest rates go back up). A 0% loan, on the other hand, does really alter the equation.
For example, 500K for 30 years at 0% is ~1400/mo.
500K at 4% for 30 years is 2,387.08/mo.
Basically a 0% 30 year MTG would add about 50-80% to the purchasing power of a buyer. You’d be able to afford a 500K home on a 70K salary without stretching too thin; even at 4%, you’d need at least 125K to support that home. A 0% loan would have a dramatic, long term effect on the housing market.
Anything less then that is simply pushing water upstream, there’s no way to stop the slide short of making 500K homes affordable again to people around median income levels.
Tend to agree with you, Michael, but don’t want to sound too “alarmist.”
Let’s hope the govt doesn’t actually go through with these low interest mortgage rates. IMHO, that’s the very worst thing they could do right now.
…”a restaurant where the décor changes every half-hour or so”..
In the new Encore hotel. If it’s convenient, could someone go there and tell us about that place. Sounds weird and excessive and stupid - very “oughts” (or whatever we call this waning decade).
Perhaps you should take a change of clothes or two.
…”a restaurant where the décor changes every half-hour or so”..
that line also caught my eye. I have some Vegas in-laws that we visit so next trip it’s on the list.
Great. Do report back.
The Titanic had very opulent decor as well.
Restaurant Review: Switch at Wynn Encore, Las Vegas
“Hey, the walls are moving!” I exclaim, putting down my glass of A.H. Hirsch Reserve bourbon. I’ve only had one sip, yet apparently it was a large one, because looking up, the ceiling is opening, too! “Relax,” says the waiter, with an indulgent, seen-it-before smile. “This is why the restaurant is called Switch.
[snip]
The inspiration for this vibrant, stylish restaurant with its brilliant orange crocodile fabric, Venetian glass murals of large sunflowers, and vividly colored carpets came when Wynn’s in-house designer, Roger Thomas, who decided to focus on Switch’s location near the flower-filled atrium…
Oooh.. orange crocodile.. a mural with sunflowers! It’s got everything ‘cept a catchy slogan.
This one’s on me, Steve..
“Losing your home or job? Walls closing in? If the sky is falling down around your ears, get away from it all at the Encore.”
go there and tell us about that place ??
I was just there two weeks ago…The red decor is kind of weird..Its big…Its expensive ( $6. for a Coors and $14.50 for a GG martini )…There were not very many people…The Frank Sinatra restaurant interesting but reeked of elitisms..I liked the Wynn better mainly because of the water features and the nice big sports book….
btw, havent said it this month, so here goes;
Olygal, yer a pip !
Why, thanks, aqius. I’m getting quite fond of you, too. If you ever appeared and actually posted I would be, I mean. (that’s the pointed sarcasm thingie I been working on lately.)
But, back to my subject, I appreciate the nice word, and as a special thanks to you, you may puke on cardboard me in Vegas and I won’t bite you when I find out.
Much.
i have a spare bedroom on the strip if anyone is interested in a free room
kratovil1@yahoo.com
The word you’re looking for is stupid.
–
I and a friend have been going to Vegas frequently and getting great deals on hotels, but we might consider renting a condo, not far from the strip, for our use and let some friends use it when we don’t. Anyone has some idea as to how much a furnished condo, 1 or 2 BR, would rent for (we are looking for a deal)?
Please keep this in mind and let me know while some of you are Vegas for the HBB conference. I will be following the comments during the meeting period.
Thanks.
Jas
Come on out, Jas! You can check it out for yourself when we go on the foreclosure tour.
$79 for 5-star Trump condo pre-foreclosure. Try hotwire.com -
Fed’s Yellen sees dynamics similar to Depression
Ben, what is your favorite genre of music?
I like just about everything but rap, new country and most heavy metal. I guess if I had to chose it would be surf music; the good stuff.
This is too funny. I am known - to those that hire me out - for hip hop and heavy metal. Lol… Luckily, I also rock the surf guitar.
Would you like an original, or to hand-pick a classic?
It’s hard to beat Dick Dale’s Missirilou (sp?). The instrumental classics Walk don’t run, etc. The original theme to Endless Summer (the Sandals) is one of my favorites.
Surf music. Would that be along the lines of the Beach Boys, Jan and Dean, etc..?
That is my definition of surf music.
I like to listen to alot of different music. My favorite is rock and classical music.
The Best of the Door’s(1985 album ) best road trip music
I never considered the BBs or J&D to be surf music. But I did like the Pet Sounds album.
I think suddenly people believed that this is the country where people with modest incomes could own hoses worth $500000.0, drive cars for $50000.0… get 10% every year on their investment funds with Medoffs…and Mr. Tramp and Wynnes built their palaces for those heroic reach people to bring it for them… so many beautiful dreams… built on the sand…it reminded me the movie about the Akira Curosava’s movie “Dodeskaden” where hero mad , homeless architect was building virtual palaces in his mind… It is all psychological, to the dream that U.S is that great country that with current incomes millions of people could by houses for $500000.0, cars for … this madness will exist… People have to work , create something, not believe in alchemists like Madoffs…
For those of you with recording ability on your computer, email an MP3 of whatever you feel like saying to x110y110 at gmail
Don’t worry about quality.
Say your name, and/or an HBB chestnut, or NAR quote, or whatever. Since I can’t be in Vegas, I’m'a throw together a little jam for you guys to bump on the foreclosure tour.
Thanks Muggy!
Here’s my first pick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISmgOrhELXs
Got it
Black Swan, got it
Hwy50ina49Dodge, true story: my friend’s mom
hooked up withdated George.:barf:
The HBB Remix is underway…
i117.photobucket.com/albums/o72/muggyFL/HBB.jpg
Sorry if I inundated you with muzak — I thought you were putting together an HBB playlist, not an HBB remix …
I look forward to results, regardless.
I haven’t figured it out yet… I don’t think I have time for a real-deal remix. I may make an audio collage.
Either way, your selections rock and I will certainly be using them
So what happens at the intersection of x110 and y110?
Hi Muggy. I can’t figure out how to link to it, but Tom Waite’s “Frank’s Wild Years” is to my mind the PERFECT cut for the quintessential HBB compilation.
Hugs to yer littleman!
Ah, I didn’t think of that one, but I sent him a few other Waits numbers (”House Where Nobody Lives” and “Lie To Me”).
Muggy, do you have any recommendations on downloadable composition software? Thanks!
You mean free? For which platform, mac or PC? Compose, record, or both?
thanks. yes, free. PC, compose.
MuTools free version, simple, powerful…You can download hundreds of free plug-ins, too. If you need help, just holler.
No, wait, RTFM. Lol…
thanks, Muggy! I will check it out. appreciate the help.
Those are great links about condos and lofts in Vegas. I have a link of lofts in various cities and checked out those Newport lofts. Yes, prices coming down. I saw a 1650 square foot one going for the mid $350s, running $188 per square foot.
The loft lifestyle, especially in Vegas, is very appealing to me. I am lousy at D.I.Y. maintenance and my homemade jobs would cost far more in the long run as I’d have to either redo them or get someone else to do it all fo rme. Paying a professional to do maintenance is probably more expensive than HOA in many places anyway. Besides I like my freedom.
It will still be quite awhile before I make a purchase of real estate, and it may be all from cashing in my gold.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/08/us/08lehigh.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss
In Lehigh Acres, homes are selling at 80 percent off their peak prices. Only two years after there were more jobs than people to work them, fast-food restaurants are laying people off or closing. Crime is up, school enrollment is down, and one in four residents received food stamps in December, nearly a fourfold increase since 2006.
I know on this blog we have discussed Florida before(which is another CA,AZ and so on)..it has been mentioned in many a article about how buyers and investors are running to buy these properties that are “cheaper than renting” or “cash cow.”
What these people are going to find it that they are buying homes that will become the future ghettos of the county..good luck in 5 years when 1)you will have to send in the Mafia to collect your rent or 2)that cheaper than rent is going to cost you …possibly your life..
For those of you interested in condo-living near the Vegas strip, search the Las Vegas MLS in zip code 89169, and check out the listings in the 200 block of E Flamingo Rd. The complex name is Meridian at Hughes Center, is 2 blocks from the strip (Paris/Bally’s, Bellagio and Caesars Palace). This was a condo conversion at the bubble peak in 2005. The complex is guard gated. Most of the units have granite and stainless. At the bubble peak, the 1BRs were going for about 350K and 2BRs were going for about 540K. You can now get 1BRs as low as 75K and 2BRs as low as 119K.
The property taxes are still high; I would expect then to drop in July 2009 due to re-assessment and drop further in July 2010. The Las Vegas assessor is reality-based, but prices are dropping so fast that they are a little behind the curve in dropping assessments.
Please note that my sources tell me that there are about 3,000 more foreclosures ready to come online in Vegas, so prices in Vegas will not be rising any time soon…
Here at the HBB, this Meridian has been the center of attention (if not derision) several times, due to the fact that units were rented out as nightly rentals, to the horror of some owners.
You could even find them on Expedia, and maybe one still can.
It was operated as a hotel, in other words, and illegally so, for which the Meridian owed half a million in taxes last April.
Some of the hotel guests were rather irate, because there was nothing resembling a front desk, or other kind of nice and necessary welcome.
Some of the owners are still irate, because “hotel” guests hung around the pool drinking screaming and splashing the whole night.
I checked out some homes in that area code. If someone gets a high rise bargain, he will be ooking out over trashy areas. Some of the homes look devastated, unfortunately. No wonder you can find 2k square feet places for under $100k.
The Ritz Carlton in Lake Las Vegas has been bancrupt at one point last year. The lake will dry up in eight years or so, geologists say. The Montelago Condo-Hotel (which is actually a nice place, if you don’t mind surroundings that feel a little dead) has REOs now at 65 percent off peak.
The Cosmopolitan for which DB had the paltry 750 Million loan is part of the City Center.
‘They are holding back because they know it is going to be several years before high rises are going to be built again, and they are not going to give them away because of the current market situation,’ luxury high-rise Realtor Bruce Hiatt said. ‘They know once they are gone, they are gone.’”
Realtors are nothing if not consistent. Still trotting out variations of “they’re not building ___ any more” and the delusional greedhead mantra of “We’re not giving it away.” How many times did we hear THAT once the market started to turn - and how many of those diehard greedheads now bitterly regret not accepting offers that failed to meet their wish price, but in retrospect were as good as it was going to get - in fact, far better.
Realtors are nothnig if not consistently stupid.
There. But a small improvement on your wording that is within the spirit of your post.
For unsold units have debt attached to them; I’m sure the ROI is negative.
Soon mortgage guidelines will be sane again (I still consider them loose). It will take 7 to 9 years to unstick those guidelines.
From Ben’s link:
“Las Vegas research firm SalesTraq reports that of the 15 high-rise projects in the valley, nearly half have less than 60 percent of the units sold. And of those already sold, a growing number are in foreclosure proceedings. The state of the condo market and inability of developers to close out units are expected to lead developers to rent units until the market rebounds.”
Look out below. That isn’t a market about to turn around within 3 years. Look at the Florida busts of 1926 and 1975, we’re repeating it nationally.
I take particular joy in Watching Trump ‘palace’ after Trump Palace fall apart:
1. Dubai
2. Tampa
3. Las Vegas
How is his ‘apprentice’ Chicago venture doing?
How is the New York ‘Condo-Hotel’ doing?
Is there a blog yet on Trump failures?
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Donald “pucker lips” Strump…not BK…yet.
Trump “value” real estate…BK
Don’t that Trump all!
“One market that investors are no longer pursuing is condominiums, especially the condo-hotel market, Dugan says. ‘That market is gone,’ he says. ‘It used to be a nice market, but not anymore. Financing has dried up.’”
This one I have to question — I never saw a lot of activity in the condo-hotel market other than in development, marketing and promotion — never sales. This struck me as one area where even knifecatchers feared to tread. Was it really diffferent, even for a little while, in LV?
Condo-tels were truly for the severely brain damaged. The reason they were selling off the condos (from their rooms) is because they knew the market was a massive bubble and they wanted to offload their RE exposure to some moron, instead of holding it themselves. Basically, get an idiot to buy a hotel room and then give them some of the profits when it rents. It’s truly something only for the most IQ challenged of the bunch. Of course, the hotel keeps units as well, and will rent its units to the preference of yours. And you can only stay there a few weeks a year. And you get to pay all kinds of fees.
The condo-tel is another thing that’s dead, never coming back. Timeshares are bad enough, condo-tels truly require the dumbest investors that good shills can find.
was there an absolute cut off date for last minute show ups to this shindig in Vegas?
Would love to attend, but won’t know until mid week. Anyone, bueller, bueller?!!!
Hmmm, if you promise to buy Ben a beer I’ll bet you can still sign up. But be warned the tee-shirt order goes in tomorrow so no guarantees on that after tomorrow.
Thanks SD bear.
Will save pennies for ‘ben beers’!!
Due to a sense of humor warped by the weather, this is amusing:
ARCHITECTURE:
Adaptation or ‘disaster’?
“…Topping out at 28 stories instead of the proposed 49, the incredible shrinking Harmon seems unfortunately fated to look like a stubby, squashed stepchild next to its soaring CityCenter siblings, the 61-story Aria Resort & Casino and the 57-story Vdara condo-hotel.
That is the result of construction flaws — 15 floors of wrongly installed rebar — that forced MGM Mirage, which is developing the project with Dubai World, to rapidly call for a significant reduction of the nongaming boutique hotel. MGM Mirage canceled the Harmon’s 207-unit condominium component — the top half of the building — and postponed the opening of the hotel to late 2010….”
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/feb/08/adaptation-or-disaster/
Must be immigrant labor that could not read the construction plans. Its a tear down before being opened! It doesn’t even have a casino. Why build it?
That’s pretty sad. How in the world did they get through all that work, and nobody noticed the problems with the rebar?
The entire project doesn’t look like a very good idea, IMHO. Not sure how “bringing tall buildings to the strip” (reducing setbacks from the street) is going to induce people to visit there.
It will be interesting to see how Vegas has changed over the years.
Is anyone who is attending the LV meet up in the printing business? I have a number of HBB related cartoons that we would like posterize for the meeting suite. Let me know,
sauer@ewee.com