February 8, 2009

This Time They Just Don’t Care

The Marin Independent Journal reports from California. “Marin’s median price for the 2,153 homes sold in 2008 was $767,000, a 13 percent drop from the $879,450 median based on 2,724 sales in 2007, according to the county assessor’s office. Last year was the county’s first median price reduction in more than a decade. In 2004, Marin’s median price for all homes was $718,000, and it shot up to $819,000 a year later. Last year’s median was more than double the $375,000 median for 4,359 homes sold in 1998.”

“Four years ago, San Rafael resident Christopher Kautz paid $1.025 million for his three-bedroom Spanish-style home in the city’s Dominican neighborhood. Last week, he dropped the price for the third time, to $849,000, since putting the two-level house up for sale in November to finalize divorce proceedings. ‘Here you find yourself in a market like this where you have to sell the house for other reasons, and you’re stuck with a house that has significantly less value than when you bought it four years ago,’ said Kautz.”

The Press Democrat. “Bankruptcies are ripping through the Sonoma County economy. ‘I don’t see any end in sight,” said Judge Alan Jaroslovsky, who presides over the U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Santa Rosa. ‘I’ve never seen anything last this long that still appears to be going strong.’”

“Unlike the wave of foreclosures he witnessed from his bench in the early 1990s, homeowners are not even showing up to court to fight for their homes now. ‘This time they just don’t care. They’re walking away from their homes,’ he said.”

The Orange County Register. “Even as the housing market began to crack, investment bank Bear Stearns increased its bets on mortgages to Orange County homeowners. John Hazen is a customer of Bear and EMC whose income falls short of his mortgage payments. In 2005, the peak of the housing boom, he paid $725,000 for a four-bedroom house in Huntington Beach, using 100% borrowed money.”

“Soon after buying, Hazen began dipping into his savings to pay two mortgages, including a $579,920 first mortgage with EMC. Hazen said he has a good job as a vice president in the tech department of Costa Mesa-based apparel company Hurley, but he worries eventually he will run out of savings to pay his mortgages. ‘My plan was to re-fi at some point or sell the house and move if things kept getting better,’ Hazen said.”

“Hazen said an EMC employee first told him he qualified for a loan modification to better afford his payments. Later the employee told Hazen investors in the securitization that included his loan did not approve modifying its terms. Taken aback, Hazen reminded the employee that JPMorgan announced in January it is expanding loan modification efforts to include $1.1 trillion in investor-owned mortgages. The EMC employee was unaware of the expansion and unable to help Hazen.”

“In another local case, Kim Jensen, a real estate agent, and a domestic partner paid $800,000 for a house in Laguna Beach. EMC quickly bought their $640,000 first mortgage, which allows them to select a payment that defers interest and principal owed to the future. Such loans are dubbed option ARMs. They have been making the minimum payment, and now owe $22,000 more to EMC, Jensen said.”

“The partners split up, and Jensen, now unable to afford the loan, has lobbied EMC for a modification. EMC ignored the pleas for help and did not send modification paperwork until a Register reporter inquired about the case, Jensen said. Instead of helping, EMC has pressured the partners to give up rights to the property, Jensen said.”

“‘They are just the biggest mortgage nightmare in the world,’ Jensen said of EMC. ‘I didn’t choose them. They bought our loan before escrow even closed. I would have never chosen them, never.’”

The Tribune. “The annual median price of all county homes, including new and resale single-family homes and condominiums, stood at $440,000 in 2008, a level not seen since 2004, when the annual median was $440,500. It’s almost a 20 percent drop from the peak in 2006.”

“Homes around the $200,000 range are becoming more common, most notably in the North County and some South County cities, which have a greater supply of homes and where foreclosures are more prevalent. ‘I didn’t think we’d see prices below $300,000, and here we are below $200,000,’ said Linda Midkiff, a Realtor in Paso Robles. ‘I certainly expected us to have some kind of a drop, but not like this. This has been huge.’”

“Even the higher-priced coastal communities with fewer foreclosures are seeing a few reductions and a slowdown in sales activity, said Richard Watkins of Gilligan Realty in Cayucos. ‘One worrisome thing is that people that had the financial means to buy already bought last year,’ he said. ‘And because of the continuing slide in prices, those people won’t be buying again for a while.’”

“‘California went into a down market earlier than other parts of the country, and we will come out of it earlier than other parts of the country,’ said Jim Liptak, president of the California Association of Realtors and broker-associate with Country Real Estate in Paso Robles. ‘But I cannot predict what will happen with the national economy. If it continues to falter, we’re all going to be in the same boat, and that’s scary.’”

The Merced Sun Star. “Merced lost much more than a financial institution Friday when Westamerica Bank agreed to take over County Bank. Besides the employees who will inevitably lose their jobs and the stockholders who now own worthless paper, County Bank stood as a pillar of support for the area’s charities since its 1977 founding.”

“Thomas Hawker, who served as County Bank’s CEO for 17 years, guided the bank through its meteoric rise and left just as it began to fall. Hawker said its demise can be blamed on being based in Merced, often pegged as the foreclosure capital of the nation. Many of the bank’s loans were for commercial and residential projects. The land values have been battered in the last couple years, forcing the company to count them as losses.”

“While serving as CEO, he recalled seeing Merced County land values set at a third of what they’d be worth in Stanislaus and Fresno counties. ‘How do you get around that?’ he asked. ‘There are just some things you can’t overcome.’”

“Leading the bank as its fortunes dwindled was ’sickening,’ he added, though he didn’t think its condition was terminal until the $96 million annual loss was released last week. ‘We had a lot of good years,’ he said, ‘but one bad year really took it down.’”

The Union Tribune. “California Bank & Trust is taking over a five-branch Culver City financial institution that regulators seized yesterday. Like many community banks, Alliance failed when loans to real estate developers went bad amid the housing meltdown. According to FDIC documents, it posted a net loss of $65 million in the fourth quarter – largely because it set aside money in loan-loss reserves.”

The Daily Breeze. “As scores of South Bay residents stopped by the Department of Motor Vehicles office in Torrance on Friday, a lone security guard broke the bad news: They wouldn’t be able to register their cars or replace their missing drivers’ licenses. All DMVs in California were closed for the day under an employee furlough ordered by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in January.”

“‘It’s another Schwarzenegger blunder,’ said Gina Sweeney of Torrance, who had planned to register her car.”

The Toronto Star. “In the U.S. West, a nightmare has been realized. California’s state machinery has ground to a halt. Construction projects have been suspended. The government is issuing IOU’s in place of cash. Tax refunds have been postponed. State workers are forced to stay home. These measures are barely keeping the Golden State from drowning in $42 billion (U.S.) of debt. California’s schools may lose $9 billion(U.S.) in funding this year; prisons and social services will also be hit.”

“A downloadable Arnoldbuck that has appeared on the Internet – ‘IOU Real Money,’ it says, under a picture of Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger – is a joke, but virtual reality too.”

The Desert Sun. “The median price of Coachella Valley real estate fell to $194,900 in December, its lowest level since 2001. The December sales, while reflecting an 8.3 percent gain compared to 2007, also tracked at low levels not seen since 1996. ‘We beat a crummy December 2007 in sales,’ said Andrew LePage, a DataQuick analyst.”

“The number of sales — 746 — was the second lowest since 1996. ‘That was not a great year. It was the peak of the last wave of foreclosures’ in the state, he said. The median price also was lower than the $410,000 peak reached in February 2006.”

“‘The last time the median was lower was in December 2001,’ LePage said. ‘Depreciation has swept through the region and the state,’ LePage said, so the greater share of the sales are in the low-cost areas, where housing prices are affordable and foreclosure activity has been occurring. ‘That’s driving the median down.’”

The North County Times. “In the good old days of 2003 and ‘04, golfers lined up for tee times at the Golf Club of California and the course restaurant was flush with customers. But lately, as a small group of individual members try to keep the troubled golf course open, a good day is anything more than a dozen foursomes while a young entrepreneur barbecues hamburgers and hot dogs outside the empty 17,000-square-foot clubhouse.”

“There is reason for optimism, say those who have stuck out a recent string of bad luck: New owners may be on the way, and the golf is as good as ever. When the course opened in 2002, membership deposits ran $20,000. The status of dozens of unreturned deposits is still in question. For now, the club is offering $500-per-month family memberships with no deposits until the club is back on its feet and fully functioning.”

“Former member Jay Featherstone said many of those…dropped as members ‘were active, current on their dues,’ and wanted to stay at the club. ‘A great place turned into a very unfortunate situation,’ he said. ‘The membership dwindled down to almost nothing.’”

“Golf has suffered along with the tattered housing market, said John McNair, vice president of operations for JC Golf, which runs eight public courses in Southern California. ‘Most courses do not have a waiting list, meaning they need members,’ said McNair, adding that private courses are at a disadvantage because the upfront deposits are a major deterrent for most local residents who have taken a hit in property values.”

“‘I don’t think we’ve seen the worst of it,’ he added. ‘No one’s doing great. Pretty much everyone I talk to says that they’re down versus a year or two ago.’”

“Featherstone and others who left but were never refunded their $20,000 deposits are now worried that their money isn’t around to be returned. ‘A lot of the people who are in the same position I’m in assumed that our money was being held in an escrow account,’ he said. ‘That account exists today, but doesn’t have near the money in it that we all anticipated.’”

The San Francisco Chronicle. “Nearly 1,600 people showed up in downtown San Jose on Saturday morning, hoping for a chance to buy one of over 190 foreclosed homes being sold off at bargain-basement prices. Frequently, homes sold at auctions like the one in San Jose have been abandoned or are in very poor condition, among other things.”

“People of all ages showed up in San Jose, pumped up by rock music that blared through the loudspeakers at the convention center - the song ‘Living in America’ means that an auction is about to start - and the tantalizing possibility of getting a deal. As the auctioneer rattled off prices, men dressed in black tuxedos roamed the crowd. Known as ‘ring men,’ they pantomimed their excitement at a new bid, and as the high bid jumped from one area to another, a ring man blew his whistle. Homes sold briskly, one after another.”

“‘It went so quickly!’ said Katherine Pensa, a secretary who got a Newark townhouse, valued at $412,000 and conveniently located around the corner from her sister, for $167,500. She said she’d been looking for property for 18 months and had bid as high as she was willing to go.”

“Still, buyers make mistakes. Suzann Bowman, a senior loan officer at Prospect Mortgage in Campbell, had a customer walk away from a property in Palo Alto after he won it at an auction, sight unseen, because he didn’t like the neighborhood or the property’s condition. He lost his deposit.”

“Bowman said buyers should use real estate agents, even at auctions, because ‘agents can help keep things in perspective.’”




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108 Comments »

Comment by Rancher
2009-02-08 12:54:35

“Bowman said buyers should use real estate agents, even at auctions, because ‘agents can help keep things in perspective.’”

Quote of the year! When will these duffus’s go
away?

Comment by mikey
2009-02-08 13:22:04

Yeah..use a realtywhore at an auction.

As if you wouldn’t be dealing with enough SHILLS at their clownfest, they want you to bring your own to help THEM!

Must be the recession :)

 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-02-08 13:30:34

No, No, NO!

Do NOT buy at auction. They can be rigged with shills or there can be unannounced minimums. And by winning a property, you proved that NO ONE ELSE was willing to pay what you just paid.

If you must buy, buy direct from the bank.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-02-08 16:11:32

Bill

Why not use reverse psychology?

Bid on every auction up to say 40-50% of the peak price…in other words you act like a shill … it could be fun!

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-08 16:48:40

Agents have only one perspective: “Now is a great time to buy!” Delivered with a Botox perma-grin while scheming out to squeeze the last dime out of potential marks.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 12:56:15

‘Here you find yourself in a market like this where you have to sell the house for other reasons, and you’re stuck with a house that has significantly less value than when you bought it four years ago,’ said Kautz.”

Gee, d’ya think maybe four years ago you might have paid too much?

Comment by mikey
2009-02-08 13:27:17

Wow…all the big time, “big spenders” are crying the blues now that the leverage worm has turned :)

Comment by mikey
2009-02-08 14:16:17

The entire State of Kalifornia is singing “Good-time Charlie has the Blues”.

Sheesh…no one could have seen THAT coming!

 
Comment by Milkcrate
2009-02-08 18:32:13

Righto. Even golf is “suffering.”
Rude awakenings ahead.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-08 16:52:31

You didn’t “find yourself stuck” in the market, dumb-a$$. You placed yourself there, with eyes wide shut.

All the fools that eagerly quaffed the NAR Kool-Aid back in 2004/2007 are now noticing that bitter almond aftertaste.

 
Comment by Left LA
2009-02-08 18:52:46

Small world. I went to high school with Chris.

Comment by Jim A.
2009-02-09 07:20:55

And I went to high school with crazy astronaut chick.

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-08 13:00:12

“Even as the housing market began to crack, investment bank Bear Stearns increased its bets on mortgages to Orange County homeowners. John Hazen is a customer of Bear and EMC whose income falls short of his mortgage payments. In 2005, the peak of the housing boom, he paid $725,000 for a four-bedroom house in Huntington Beach, using 100% borrowed money.”

How did Bear’s and John’s bets pan out?

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-02-08 13:58:17

“John Hazen is a customer of Bear and EMC whose income falls short of his mortgage payments. ”

Is this a polite way of saying that, instead of leading a max of 33% of gross income; Bear and EMC instead lent him something greater then 100% of income? I’m pretty sure it is, this guy make 3K a month, and his MTG payment is 4K, or something like that. And, frankly, if this guy didn’t lie on his loan app (doubtful), he should get a pass (just take the home, no credit hit). There’s simply NO excuse for this kind of lending; and, imho, it’s MORE the bank’s fault then the consumers (in this case). Now, if he told them he was making 100K, but instead makes 20K, that’s a different story. But there are some loans out there that people should just get a walk on, you lose the house, but keep the credit. I think that this may wind up being a reasonable solution for some people; it would allow them to get back into the market more quickly.

Comment by calex
2009-02-08 18:23:11

“My plan was to re-fi at some point ”

My favorite quote of this bubble, but my question is when is some reporter going to finally ask the question,
“Re-fi into what?”
I would love to hear how these FB’s thought a Re-Fi was going to somehow make it so they could pay for a house they couldn’t afford in the first place.

A loan junkie that worked in the fraud division bought my house. When I saw his payment I thought he was nuts, but figured he must know what he is doing since he is in the business. 2 years later the forclosure notice went up on the door and the house went back to the bank.

Comment by Big V
2009-02-09 00:30:32

Refi into a no-payment loan. They were all banking on the government to bail them out. They really, really were.

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Comment by NOVAwatcher
2009-02-09 06:11:50

That’s a good question: Refi into what?

When they bought the house, we had record-low interest rates (well, until this last January). When you have record low interest rates, the last thing you want to get is an ARM, because in all likelihood, the only direction it will be able to adjust is ‘up’. Likewise, the likelihood that you’ll be able to refi into a cheaper fixed sometime in the future approaches zero.

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Comment by ouro verde
2009-02-08 13:02:25

“Still, buyers make mistakes. Suzann Bowman, a senior loan officer at Prospect Mortgage in Campbell, had a customer walk away from a property in Palo Alto after he won it at an auction, sight unseen, because he didn’t like the neighborhood or the property’s condition. He lost his deposit”

East palo alto or West?
good witch bad witch.

Comment by MacAttack
2009-02-08 16:40:26

Probably East, but only heard “Palo Alto” and didn’t do any due diligence. Thought he hit a gold mine until he saw the mine was located in the former (current?) Murder Capital of the United States.

Comment by Mike G
2009-02-08 23:18:08

Former. EPA houses were going for $400k at the peak.
With the budget crunch hitting municipal budgets and pushing many people closer to the economic edge, methinks areas that were ‘gentrified’ in the past decade will start to revert to their former status.

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 13:02:48

“In the U.S. West, a nightmare has been realized. California’s state machinery has ground to a halt. Construction projects have been suspended. The government is issuing IOU’s in place of cash. Tax refunds have been postponed. State workers are forced to stay home. These measures are barely keeping the Golden State from drowning in $42 billion (U.S.) of debt. California’s schools may lose $9 billion(U.S.) in funding this year; prisons and social services will also be hit.”

Some of the musings by the punditry on The McLaughlin Group regarding California were downright scary. Such as the possibility that California will become a permanent debtor state, supported by the rest of the US!! Much like an IMF nation. There was a discussion on how taxpayers are leaving in droves, replaced by taxabsorbers, such as illegals and their anchor kids, and how agriculture is disappearing, while drought and wildfires constantly threaten.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-02-08 13:33:03

Maybe we should LET Mexico annex it!

Comment by MacAttack
2009-02-08 16:41:30

Annex it BACK, you mean.

Comment by NOVAwatcher
2009-02-09 06:14:55

The Mexicao stole California from the native tribes.

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Comment by jetson_boy
2009-02-08 14:14:30

California is so phucked. I now have even more reasons not to buy a house here. The fact that it will likely become a living hell here as the state goes bankrupt, business collapses under the weight of taxes to pay for the state just to actually function, job layoffs ramp up, crime skyrockets, and anyone with talent leaves. Perhaps that’s a bit too doom and gloom. But things are probably going to get ugly here and hopefully I will be long gone when it gets to that point.

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 14:41:43

I am sorry for Cali, I truly am. I’ve spent time in Southern Cal along the shore and the weather was truly fantastic. I was reading a report on line about how voters, back in the Carter years, voted to deny services to illegals, but were overturned by some idiot judge who legislated from the bench. The rest of the country sort of shrugged it off as California’s problem. Now, California’s problem is the rest of the country’s problem. Look at Cali, look at Congress and you can see where we’re headed.

Y’know, why bother to vote if judges can overturn the will of the people? Now you’ve got a population that will vote itself all sorts of bread and circuses.

Comment by Wine Country Dude
2009-02-08 17:16:01

Wasn’t in the Carter years. 1994, to be exact. Prop 187. Which was eviscerated by judges.

But look: I’ve lived in a bunch of different places, and Cali–at least that portion of it that I’m in–is wonderful. Even if the economy were great guns elsewhere, I don’t want to live in Houston. Or Denver. Or Nashville. Or Columbus, OH. Or even NYC or DC. Or places–with due respect to Olygal and the PNW–where it rains all the time. (I took a flying lesson on my birthday from a transplant from Olympia, WA, who had lived there 10 years. She said the weather drove her crazy).

So, I’m hunkering down for the moderately long haul (25-30 years). After that, as Dave Barry says, I plan to be dead.

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Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 17:33:17

“Wasn’t in the Carter years. 1994, to be exact. Prop 187. Which was eviscerated by judges.

But look: I’ve lived in a bunch of different places, and Cali–at least that portion of it that I’m in–is wonderful.”

First of all, thanks for the clarification. It was one of those things I read in passing and I appreciate the correction.

I understand how you feel about where you are. I also read some proposal about splitting Cali into three states and if you’re up in wine country, you’re in the sweet spot.

 
Comment by Awaiting Bubble Rubble
2009-02-08 20:46:32

Like Wine Country Dude, I’ve lived in a bunch of other places (Denver, Boulder, Miami, midwest, etc.) and even now get to divide my time between California and Thailand/Paris, but I will never truly feel at home anyplace else. I will pay a premium to again own a little piece of it… well, maybe in two years when nice homes are on the market at 2X my annual income. It’s California, what could possibly go wrong?!?! Besides, reliable sources say:

“‘California went into a down market earlier than other parts of the country, and we will come out of it earlier than other parts of the country,’ said Jim Liptak, president of the California Association of Realtors

And if you can’t trust the prez of CAR to accurately predict the miracle recovery of California (and he has it on great authority that the next gold rush will be discovered here, rare Uranium 238 found inside the brains of unemployed Realtors up and down the state), whom CAN you trust?

 
Comment by ACH
2009-02-08 21:30:05

But look: I’ve lived in a bunch of different places, and Cali–at least that portion of it that I’m in–is wonderful.”

I know how you feel. I had to move from North Fla. I really liked it there before the housing lunacy. It was quiet with little to no traffic. My favorite place was Tallahassee. I visit frequently, and N. Fla. certainly wasn’t Tampa as far as traffic and crowded went. Still, it had changed and not for the better. The whole economy was much more expensive. I would like to move back, but I have a job I couldn’t really get anywhere else. Still, I live in N. Louisiana now and that’s ok, too. No, it is not known for it’s cosmopolitanism. So what? It’s quiet with woods, trees, rivers, etc.
Roidy

 
Comment by butitsdifferenhere
2009-02-08 22:18:14

Tallahassee is a cool town - I just can’t stomach the HUGE drop-off in salary for my line of work. I love FL in general (the quieter, smaller beach cities) and often think of moving. I have lived in SF Bay of CA my whole life (31yrs), but am worried what the future of this once-great state holds…

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-02-09 00:34:43

Judges just interpret the law, Palmie. If a lower law is at odds with a higher one, then people have to change the higher one. They can’t just vote in an inconsistent legal system.

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Comment by CrackerJim
2009-02-09 08:34:51

“Judges just interpret the law, Palmie.”

BS!

 
Comment by HARM
2009-02-10 23:59:20

Judges just interpret the law, Palmie.

Uhhh…. not quite. Over here judges also like to legislate from the bench when the public fails to vote “correctly” (i.e., in line with what powerful political interests want, such as big Agriculture, Construction, Hotels, Retailers, La Raza, UFW, etc.). Not transferring taxpayer wealth to people who snuck in illegally would actually be upholding federal law, which (if memory of the Civil War serves me) supercedes state law.

Of course, the federal government is the real culprit in that it has long been deliberately (and perhaps criminally) negligent in enforcing its own laws, but that’s material for another debate.

 
 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-02-08 15:56:38

Thousand Oaks (Ventura County-So Ca) is full of illegals (sucking the system dry and working under the radar), and the quality of life has tanked ,in a once nice community. California is living off its past image, imho. You can’t eat or pay your bills with sunshine. (farming excluded)

Comment by jetson_boy
2009-02-08 16:25:08

speaking of farming, we have had NO rain this year. Just a few little showers.Experts predict the worst drought in CA history. Ag is CA’s biggest business believe it or not. A state that is 40 Billion in debt doesn’t need a disaster for farmers either.

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Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 16:34:44

“Experts predict the worst drought in CA history.”

No problem, just invite millions more to populate the state, that oughta work.

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 16:46:36

And if you’re watching any of the reports about the wildfires in Australia, it’s a cautionary tale for California.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-02-08 19:20:17

Ummm, right now we have a few storms coming through this part of the state. We’ve had some pretty bad droughts in the past and will probably have many more in the future. California can go through years of rain and years of little or no rain.

 
Comment by SuzyK
2009-02-08 20:13:30

As I’m listening to the rain this evening I can only sincerely hope that people stay away from CA in droves……

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 20:19:42

Never happen. Too much of a magnet for illegals and welfare breeders.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-08 21:44:43

Farmers have been some of the most frugal users of water, using all kinds of different ways to use less and less water but more and more golf courses are needed, I think, instead of fruit or vegetables. Isn’t golf one of the food groups?

 
Comment by SuzyK
2009-02-08 23:13:38

“Farmers have been some of the most frugal users of water” That’s funny…..I’m a small farmer and let me tell you aside from us “small” growers, big ari-business is busy using WAY too much water for crops like rice that have NO business being grown in a semi-arid climate. Besides they can sell back their water contracts to the SAME companies that sold to them for 2 to 4x what they paid. There ain’t so “free” market in farming……rant off

 
 
 
 
Comment by Matt_in_TX
2009-02-09 06:17:41

Drowning in “42B” of debt?

I thought the 42B was just this year’s predicted shortfall.
Presumably, the Toronto paper ran out of zeros when they tried to print the real CA debt (rather than just the deficit.)

 
 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-02-08 13:07:24

“‘It went so quickly!’ said Katherine Pensa, a secretary who got a Newark townhouse, valued at $412,000 and conveniently located around the corner from her sister, for $167,500.”

Question….How could it be valued at $412K if it just sold for $167K? Don’t reporters pay attention to the obvious?

Looks like Katherine the sucker, I mean “secretary” got a good deal.

Just pray there are no liens or back taxes. Oh, and fork over that 10% buyer premium to the auctioneer.

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-02-08 14:47:03

It’s that the truth. My favorite is “Selling below fair value”. That’s just not possible. Where is sells IS fair value, fair value is set by an open market transaction. There’s simply almost no way to sell a house and not set fair value, something that all these genius appraisers, RE agents, and reporters should really learn.

Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-08 17:00:59

By this time next year Six Minutes will be trotting out knifecatcher tales of woe that start with, “I thought I was getting a good deal because I bought it so far below market value.” And their lobotomy scars will throb as wiser observers point out that in doing so, they SET the new [and changable] value, which subsequent foreclosures and short sales will continue to undermine.

 
Comment by HARM
2009-02-11 00:04:32

The government keeps telling us that it won’t sell off “troubled” assets for “fire sale prices”, and that it must spend our money to “prevent house prices from falling further”. And whenever there are no bidders for worthless crap paper at prices banksters are “willing” to accept, the taxpayer must pony up the difference.

So… is it really any wonder why most people don’t understand such basic concepts as “fair market price”? This shit starts at the top of the pyramid.

 
 
Comment by laughing boy
2009-02-08 15:23:55

yeah… I involuntarily sprayed coffee on my computer when I read that.

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 16:58:19

One of my fave posts on the HBB was about some Florida FBs who purchased in a development where the builder started selling similar homes to theirs for less than what the FBs had paid. I think the lady said “But they promised us the homes would never be sold for less than market value”.

 
 
 
Comment by GotRocks
2009-02-08 13:08:36

(from the last article)

“Winning bidders have 10 minutes to change their minds.”

Oh how quaint, don’t they really mean something like: “Winning shills have 10 minutes to get rid of the property.”

Bidder Beware!!

Comment by robiscrazy
2009-02-08 13:15:35

Auctions are quite often a bad deal. Many auctioneers are just plain crooked. Sometimes they will just point into the middle of the crowd and pull a bid out of thin air (among other unsavory things).

Comment by Reddy Watt
2009-02-08 15:28:03

I used to run an auction and the first lesson I learned was “you can’t make it if you don’t fake it!”

We lost our ass on the first auction and used a shill or two after that. In our case it just kept the bidders from getting too good of a deal. We had to keep the lights on!

 
 
Comment by Milkcrate
2009-02-08 18:47:52

I wondered whether note holders would use absolute auctions to move empty houses. Do not see too many. Congressional muddling would likely block those opportunities. I also would hope working people who got blindsided could bid on their own houses.
Hope, I have some.
Righteously discouraged with the Bringer of Hope.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 13:10:35

“Even the higher-priced coastal communities with fewer foreclosures are seeing a few reductions and a slowdown in sales activity, said Richard Watkins of Gilligan Realty in Cayucos. ‘One worrisome thing is that people that had the financial means to buy already bought last year,’ he said. ‘And because of the continuing slide in prices, those people won’t be buying again for a while.’”

Yep, a lot of people who could buy, already have. Now what?

Comment by Jen Bones
2009-02-08 14:05:24

What Watkins of Gilligan Realty is saying here is essentially correct. The Howells are squatting up at Hearst Castle; the Professor’s renting a condo on Chorro Street and waiting for the SLO median to bottom at 3.5 times income while he feeds from the public trough at Cal Poly (Physics department, I think); Ginger’s high-tailed it up to Carmel, where she’s living large on some sugar daddy’s dime (no surprise there); Marianne isn’t in the market and never will be (she’s busy serving turkey nuts at McLintocks); Gilligan is shipwrecked on Morro Rock and is either stoned or dead (hard to tell the difference with him); and the Skipper’s been left holding the bag as usual — he’s HELOCed up to his captain’s whistle on a $600k Cayucos McSh*tbox. A three-hour tour, my ass.

Luv,
Jen

Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-02-08 14:22:57

LOL! Yours is the day’s funniest post!

 
Comment by slb
2009-02-08 14:47:55

Let’s hope Ginger chose well sugar daddy wise, since a lot of their dimes are disappearing.

 
 
Comment by GeorgeSalt
2009-02-08 14:17:26

“… people that had the financial means to buy already bought last year”

Much of the demand that came from bubblemania was in fact future demand. Many people rushed to buy because they were afraid they’d be “priced out forever.” As a result, demand will be depressed for some time.

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-02-08 14:52:52

Exactly correct, and the reason that almost nothing (except a return to 10X income, no credit, no money down loans) will re-spike the punchbowl. They are seeing the same problem the car dealers had, when you offer 0% financing you steal demand from the future. The RE industry used up at least 10 years (and probably more) of demand in the last 5. Even when this market does find a bottom, there are SO few people who are actually qualified, ready to buy, don’t need to sell another home, and willing to buy into a falling market that it hardly matters. Yes, you will eventually get the “smart money” (that would be us) jumping back in. But we’re a drop in the bucket compared to the effect of strawberry pickers buying 700K homes in CA. There’s SO little demand actually out there, and won’t be significant demand for years to come. Where they “stole” the demand it will be 10 years before those poor souls are ready to buy again (foreclose, then rebuilt credit and downpayment). The best hope is the younger generation. If they learn good saving habits now (I’m thinking of a 22 YO with a decent job), in 5 years they will probably be ready to buy.

There’s nothing but time (to get more buyers qualified) or immigration that can fix this issue. There’s just not enough people for all the homes (and certainly not at anything that even closely resembles the last sale).

Comment by Big V
2009-02-09 00:45:42

There isn’t enough water for all the homes. There aren’t enough jobs for all the homes. There isn’t enough freaking farmland for all the homes.

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Comment by ron
2009-02-09 09:27:16

Demand also includes the ability to pay not only want or need.

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Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 13:12:50

“People of all ages showed up in San Jose, pumped up by rock music that blared through the loudspeakers at the convention center - the song ‘Living in America’ means that an auction is about to start - and the tantalizing possibility of getting a deal. As the auctioneer rattled off prices, men dressed in black tuxedos roamed the crowd. Known as ‘ring men,’ they pantomimed their excitement at a new bid, and as the high bid jumped from one area to another, a ring man blew his whistle. Homes sold briskly, one after another.”

Just like on those REDC commercials. Sheesh, I think I’d feel like taking a shower after attending that sort of auction.

Comment by Muir
2009-02-08 18:37:43

I posted on this weeks ago when I went to one in FL (they just had another one today.)
I did a better description.

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 19:00:37

I haven’t been to one, but the commercials just ooze sleaze.

 
Comment by Mike G
2009-02-09 00:45:06

I posted on this weeks ago when I went to one in FL

At the Florida auctions, do the loudspeakers blare “Rock You Like A Hurricane”?

 
 
 
Comment by Bob in Vegas
2009-02-08 13:20:38

It would be interesting to see if the bidders who are not paying cash can actually finance their dream homes…

Comment by Muir
2009-02-08 18:44:25

There are lender behind a curtain (this is not a joke) I saw them.

 
 
Comment by 2banana
2009-02-08 13:26:05

Rant on…

“In another local case, Kim Jensen, a real estate agent, and a domestic partner paid $800,000 for a house in Laguna Beach. EMC quickly bought their $640,000 first mortgage, which allows them to select a payment that defers interest and principal owed to the future. Such loans are dubbed option ARMs. They have been making the minimum payment, and now owe $22,000 more to EMC, Jensen said.”

Wow - this is soooo PC. Real estate agent and “domestic partner.” Laguna Beach (so 2005 MTV). And a pick a payment plan. So many levels of crap.

“The partners split up, and Jensen, now unable to afford the loan, has lobbied EMC for a modification. EMC ignored the pleas for help and did not send modification paperwork until a Register reporter inquired about the case, Jensen said. Instead of helping, EMC has pressured the partners to give up rights to the property, Jensen said.”

They split up? Gee - could not see that coming. And you COULD NOT AFFORD the loan in the first place with the two of you (an $800,000 would require an annual income of $300,000)! What rights do you have to a property you could not afford, can not make the payments and put nothing down? You have the right to get your @ss kicked out of it.

“‘They are just the biggest mortgage nightmare in the world,’ Jensen said of EMC. ‘I didn’t choose them. They bought our loan before escrow even closed. I would have never chosen them, never.’”

If you got a normal loan that you could afford in a house that you could afford you could choose from whom you would borrow the money from. Living the lesbian dream in Laguna Beach in a house at 10x income…you get what you get.

Rant off.

Comment by reuven
2009-02-08 13:57:07

Well, I’ve been with my “domestic partner” for 21 years, so I’m sorry to shatter your expectations.

But other than that, I don’t disagree with you.

It’s outrageous, for example, that people who never had put a nickel of their own money toward the principal (100%+ financing, neg-am or I/O mortgages) are going to get help to stay in “their” homes. You should direct your anger at this, and not at Lesbianism.

Comment by New Zealand Renter
2009-02-08 14:54:27

“Well, I’ve been with my “domestic partner” for 21 years, so I’m sorry to shatter your expectations.”

Congrats reuven!

“2banana” No Freudian implications there. LOL! He obviously has some “issues”.

Comment by calex
2009-02-08 18:34:48

If you want to generalize, I would say the gay community is handling this better than others. Generally 2 incomes and generally no kids and no marriage penalty tax. Plus they can generally stage furniture better if they have to sell.

Generally speaking.

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Comment by robin
2009-02-09 00:14:49

I lived with my female partner from another country for seven years before I married her, eight years ago. Differences take time to resolve. Still a loving work in progress!

 
Comment by SubKommander Dred
2009-02-09 05:45:07

Gay, straight or non affilliated; this housing mania madness is going to hurt an awful lot of people. I suppose it can be considered a type of progress that now anyone, regardless of sexual orientation, can be a totally hosed FB.

Dred

 
 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-02-08 18:41:24

I don’t understand this story. For a purchase price of $800K they have a “first” mortgage of $640K. That’s 80%. The unanswered question in the story: is where did the other 20% come from? Did they actually put 20% down, or did they get a second so they could get 80/20 financing?

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-08 17:05:11

“‘They are just the biggest mortgage nightmare in the world,’ Jensen said of EMC.

And Jensen is the biggest mortgagee nightmare in the world - one who enters into an unaffordable contract with foundations of sand on both a financial and personal level. Jingle keys, here we come.

 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-02-08 13:27:19

One of those rare days when I see the paper paper before HBB gives me the same thing. I’m sitting in a SLO-area coffee shop with front page headline “How the Mighty Median has Fallen.” Last five measurements (medians of 2004-08) now sort of fit the parabola that PB had in mind when he was perplexed a few years back by people’s describing prices as “parabolic” — that was when the prices looked like p included a positive t-square term, and he was thinking of a negative t-square term. But the parabola on the front of SLO Trib looks something like p = $550K minus $27K*[(t-2006)squared], if you don’t go back to 2003. If you do go back to 2003, let’s just suppose this curve is symmetric, and it looks like SLO County median price for the full year 2009 should be about 12% or 13% below the 2008 median…which actually sounds about right to me without reference to any particular magic formula.

“People that had the financial means to buy already bought last year” said so-and-so. Well, not all of us did. Just watching and waiting. Next year I might be too bored to wait any more, esp if d2p/dt2 turns positive. I think it won’t…yawn.

Comment by ozajh
2009-02-08 18:03:59

az,

Out of idle curiosity, have you perchance been approached by any of your clientele who are considering upgrading and looking for finance.

Seems to me there are some locations now where people on a secure income, even one as low as SS, could consider buying a small SFH if they could sell their mobiles for use as a deposit. (Which might not be too hard right now.)

Just thinkin’ out loud . . .

 
Comment by rms
2009-02-08 20:25:32

az_lender, Check out the same story online especially the comments section. Lots of SLO folks think that the region will defy rational economics. SLO is a nice place, but it lacks real income. The region’s best employer, the state, is broke too, but that doesn’t appear to concern the locals.

 
 
Comment by reuven
2009-02-08 13:50:30

“‘It went so quickly!’ said Katherine Pensa, a secretary who got a Newark townhouse, valued at $412,000 and conveniently located around the corner from her sister, for $167,500.

Ummmm….if it sold for $167,500, how the heck can the reporter say it was “valued at $412,000.” (I hope they make her pay property taxes on the amount she claims it’s valued at!)

 
Comment by mikey
2009-02-08 13:53:19

Looking over craigslist housing for fun this AM , I see the FB and GF 2009 JUNK models are out early this year :)

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-02-08 14:07:42

..All DMVs in California were closed for the day under an employee furlough ordered by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in January.”
“‘It’s another Schwarzenegger blunder,’ said Gina Sweeney of Torrance, who had planned to register her car.” …

Gina.. sweetheart.. musta felt like a bozo showing up on Friday, eh?
Try opening a newspaper.. or tune the TV to news once in a while.

Comment by MightyMike
2009-02-08 16:07:17

There was an article in the New York Times which quoted another Californian who was really angry at Schwarzenegger for closing the DMV offices two days a month. These people are amazing. They just have to come back on Monday. It’s not going to kill them. I’m not necessarily a fan of Arnold’s, but he’s facing an extremely difficult situation. Considering the tough spending and taxing choices he’ll have to make, closing DMV offices for two days a week is one way to save money with out causing too much difficulty for people. But some people have a hissy fit when they encounter the tiniest bit of inconvenience.

Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-02-08 18:28:13

As a So Ca gal that understands frugality, I agree with you. The DMV appt. system is pretty darn good, and you’re serviced at your appt. time. Planning ahead would make a huge difference for most folks, and cut down on DMV chaos. Most Cali’s are a bunch of spoiled brats imho.

What burns my a** is all the welfare illegals, $15B of the deficit, and growing.

Comment by Milkcrate
2009-02-08 18:56:23

+10
For blast aimed at parasites.

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Comment by awiting wipeout
2009-02-08 19:37:59

What is funny and sad (at the same time), is USC and UCLA clothes on the maggots, and yet most can’t even speak English, at all or well. It’s the new assimilate status symbol.

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 19:45:53

“USC and UCLA clothes on the maggots,”??????

Did you mean “dotes”? Lots of maggot-doting around here, too.

 
 
 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-02-08 19:24:44

Please don’t feel too sorry for Arnie. He was the one who ran, he was the one who ranted about how bad California was at the time. No one twisted his arm. I have no sympathy for this man. None whatsoever.

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-08 19:42:46

I don’t have any sympathy for him, either. If I’m Gray Davis, I’m laughing up my sleeve every day.

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Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-02-08 21:11:47

Arnie don’t give a rat’s butt.. be nice to leave a positive legacy behind but that’s just icing on the cake. He is the freakin Governator!

He was elected to straighten out the State’s finances.. then came the Bubble.. oops. That plan has to be expanded and accelerated a bit.. but who asked for it in the first place? We da peeple.

He’s not eyeballing higher office and is not going to suffer personally.. his detractors and critics are pissin’ in the wind.

 
Comment by SubKommander Dred
2009-02-09 05:56:23

The way I look at it, the citizens of California decided to elect an action hero movie star as their governor. Did they think that it was just another big budget movie with all kinds of junk blowin’ up real good? Leadership, real political leadership, takes courage and sacrifice, which includes telling folks things they may not want to hear (if you did that, you run the risk of not getting elected, or re-elected.) So now they’re angry that the movie is horrendously over budget and the script is still not finished. What a way to go…

Dred

 
Comment by gab
2009-02-09 11:41:25

“He’s not eyeballing higher office…”

I believe there was some talk about Arnold seeking a Senate seat. I think Boxer is up for re-election in 2010.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Anthony
2009-02-08 14:51:42

Realtors here are already salivating at the $15,000 tax credit. Given that in Eureka/Humboldt county prices have barely fallen as it is, I fully expect that will get fencesetters to buy. As I said before, I’m doing whatever I can to get outta here and convice prospective future bosses (I work in federal employment) of my credentials. The price of housing has remained unbelievably high given the income, infrastructure, and employment prospects here, and I don’t really think it will fall here given all these bailouts and all the speculators we still have here. After all, we’re down only 15% from the peak in a state whose median is down some 44%.

Comment by MacAttack
2009-02-08 16:43:24

I think in your case there’s a strong underground economy.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-02-09 00:57:38

It’s not done yet, Ant. The froo-froo places are behind the curve. You have to wait for the retirees to kick the bucket before comps can be reset.

You should move anyway, though. How else will ever meet a hottie?

 
 
Comment by New Zealand Renter
2009-02-08 15:10:24

“Nearly 1,600 people showed up in downtown San Jose on Saturday morning, hoping for a chance to buy one of over 190 foreclosed homes being sold off at bargain-basement prices.”

Can we say knife catcher carnival? Ok, some of the new buyers are perhaps buying at reasonable price to (current) income ratios. But how secure is their income? Even State of California employees can’t count on job security. The 2009 buyers will get foreclosed not necessarily because they overpaid, but because they will be losing their jobs or their investment income or their government benefits or their savings nest egg.

California has NOT suffered enough yet!!!

When 16 people show up in a quiet conference room to bid on 190 foreclosed homes, offering (small) cash lump sums for bundled lots of ten houses, then it will be truly over. California needs at least another 3 years of pain to kill off the 60 year old home buying fever.

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-02-08 16:55:42

Exactly. The real deals will be here when groups (like you describe) are doing deals in bulk to buy blocks of homes at 80% off (or something like that). The soverign wealth funds will be buying. Perhaps hedge funds (if they have any money left). And absoultey everyone else will tell you what a terrible idea RE is, having just seen it fall from 30-70% in their areas.

The “smart money” is certainly NOT sitting in a room of idiots bidding against shills. Some people may get decent deals, but that in no way marks anything that even approximates a bottom. The bottom will be huge bulk deals, and the “common” investor won’t be able to play at all (given that most of these deals will be many millions). You’ll see Trump and others like him in there bidding 10c on the dollar for whole condo towers (and even paying 10c on the dollar, that might still be too much to turn a profit in anything like a normal investment timeframe).

Comment by reuven
2009-02-08 19:42:38

Houses can very easily be worth zero. Once you have several boarded up / burned out houses on a block, nothing going to sell. Even buying at “80% off” in neighborhoods that have NOTHING going for them (Sacramento suburbs, Central FL, Las Vegas exurbs) is a big risk.

 
Comment by Mike G
2009-02-09 00:53:57

You’ll see Trump and others like him in there bidding 10c on the dollar for whole condo towers

No, the smart money will be buying one of Trump’s monstrosities at 10c on the dollar at the bottom.
Trump is a hype machine, a creature of easy-money booms, separating the reckless rich from cubic yards of their cash. But he’s not a value buyer by any means.

 
 
Comment by blofeld42
2009-02-09 01:55:39

Silicon Valley and the Bay Area have clearly not dropped enough. It’s way to early to be bottom fishing there. Probably one to two years away from a bottom is my guess.

 
 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-08 16:44:13

‘I didn’t think we’d see prices below $300,000, and here we are below $200,000,’ said Linda Midkiff, a Realtor in Paso Robles. ‘I certainly expected us to have some kind of a drop, but not like this. This has been huge.’”

Yet another realtor who “never saw this coming,” yet who justifies her 6% commission by claiming to be an expert on the local market. So much for the value of realtor “research.”

 
Comment by Sammy Schadenfreude
2009-02-08 16:46:47

“Unlike the wave of foreclosures he witnessed from his bench in the early 1990s, homeowners are not even showing up to court to fight for their homes now. ‘This time they just don’t care. They’re walking away from their homes,’ he said.”

That tends to happen when borrowers have no skin in the game. Learn something, lenders.

 
Comment by sold in 04
2009-02-08 19:11:46

incredible post JEN,you described san luis obispo perfectly, i been waiting 5 yrs for prices to fall,qnd fall they will AZ LENDER, cause thers no jobs and the ones avail pay nothing,we live on fresh air and good surf…and avila hot springs…

 
Comment by Lisa
2009-02-08 19:12:43

The article in today’s Marin IJ was under a screaming headline, “Has Marin’s Housing Market Hit Rock Bottom?”

Asks the question, then doesn’t include a single fact to answer it, only that prices are down in a big way, ergo, we must be at rock bottom. The article points out that prices have rolled back to 2004 levels, but the median is still double what it was in 1998….the beginning of the tech money & voodoo lending.

Meanwhile, unemployment is rising in the Bay Area, and we have the Alt A/Option Arm reset tsunami coming soon. Hmmm…..

Comment by Big V
2009-02-09 01:01:12

I learned yesterday that Marinites are “Republicans”. Don’t you think that’s funny? They all think they’re rich.

 
Comment by matthew
2009-02-09 07:10:22

Love that old Marin IJ… they know what buttons to press with their readers… maybe if they write it bold enough, it will become true??

Marin is beautiful, no doubt, but it’s chocker block loaded with every type of snob you can muster… housing snobs are probably the worst, and they are everywhere around here… hell, most people start off their resumes with the size and location of the home they own… However, they are in competition with other illustrious groups, incl sports snobs, wine snobs, food snobs, music snobs, parenting snobs, green snobs and a host of other snobs… many are limousine liberals, as it were… (heard that one tagged to Tom Daschle, and liked it)..

 
 
Comment by Julius
2009-02-09 12:50:00

Hey HBBers, I’d like to ask you guys about the Pennsylvania/Western NJ rental market.

In short: I’m going to start medical school @ UMDNJ in Stratford, NJ next year. I’m well aware of how lousy the NJ real estate market is. I went to look at some Stratford apartments in December and was shocked to see how crappy the apartments were - 1 or 2 bedroom apartments were going for $800-1000/month, and these were poorly kept at that. (This is about double the price of Cleveland (my hometown) apartments of the same sq. footage.)

So, I have 2 questions:

1. In terms of “bang for the buck”, where is the best rental property in the suburban Pennsylvania PA area located?

2. Basically, does a high level of foreclosure activity tend to drive down rental costs as well as overall home prices? The snooty lady pushing these dumpy apartments seemed to think that high levels of foreclosures would increase demand for her apartments, while I’ve heard it said many times that rents tend to fall when there are many foreclosures on the market. What say you?

Comment by Big V
2009-02-09 13:18:42

Foreclosures and the depression are pushing down rental rates. I will ask a friend for you about PA and write back.

 
 
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