February 11, 2009

It’s Like A Hole In The Bottom Of A Bucket

The Rutland Herald reports from Vermont. “According to Jill Alderman, president of the Rutland County Board of Realtors, there is a surplus of homes for sale in the county. For homes up to $200,000, Alderman said there is a nine to 12-month inventory. Homes $200,000 to $300,000, the inventory of homes is 18 months. Homes $300,000 to $500,000, there is a two-year supply. Homes $600,000 and above there is a three to seven year inventory. Foreclosures in Rutland County spiked 38 percent last year. While foreclosures represent a small percentage of all homes on the market, Jim Watson of Coldwell Banker Watson Realty said the impact is significant.”

“‘It’s like a hole in the bottom of a bucket with the bucket being full of value,’ Watson said. ‘It’s slowly lowering the average sale price of everything.’”

The Portland Press Herald from Maine. “This rural York County community has one of the most distressed housing markets in Maine. Outwardly, the indicators are subtle. ‘For Sale’ signs hang in unplowed yards at a few vacant homes. Since October, 85 homes in Waterboro have been sold, listed for sale or put under contract. Twenty-eight of them – or roughly 33 percent – are owned by a bank or are listed for less money than their sellers owe on mortgages.”

“Brenda Hildens 18-year-old raised ranch is listed for $125,000. It’s not a distress sale…But the house has been offered since October, and she suspects she’s being hurt by local market conditions. ‘I’m selling this for way less than what it’s worth,’ she said. ‘But that’s because everyone is foreclosing. And people are going to buy those homes first.’”

The Connecticut Post. “Forget the chocolates: Give your loved ones their home back this Valentine’s Day, when homeowners in financial trouble have a chance to meet with their lenders face to face, and possibly work out changes to their mortgage terms. Homeowners should bring copies of their mortgage documents, as well as documentation of their income, expenses and debts. But people who can still make their payments are out of luck, said Larry Gilmore, a director with the Washington, D.C.-based HOPE NOW, because servicers need a proveable change in circumstances — such as a job loss or increase to an interest rate — before they’ll allow a modification.”

“‘The workshop is not designed for borrowers who are simply looking for a better deal on their loan,’ said Thomas L. Lavelle, a spokesman for the Boston Fed. Some people, said Lavelle,, will find out there is no workable solution. ‘People who at least heard that [at the first event] went away with a sense of closure,’ he said.”

The Block Island Times from Rhode Island. “In 2008 new home construction on Block Island hit one of the lowest points in recent memory with just four single-family home permits issued for the year. It marks a substantial drop from 2007 when 40 permits were issued for new homes.’Most of the builders I talk to, say the primary or main builders, are telling me they’re good for a year in terms of work,’ Building Official Marc Tillson said. ‘That’s not good. They used to be booked for years.’”

“Dick Wildermuth, an owner of modular home-building company Connecticut Valley Homes, said that for the first time in many years his 27-year-old company did not build a single house on the island. ‘On Block Island an awful lot of the construction that happens out there is second homes and I think a lot of that discretionary spending disappeared in the stock market,’ he said.”

The East Bridgewater Star from Massachusetts. “The recession has caused steep spikes in unemployment throughout the region, and many of the job losses can be traced to the real estate downturn. The bulk of the new jobs created in many towns in Southeastern Massachusetts during the early part of the decade were connected to home construction, said Robb Smith, director of policy and planning for the state Executive Office of Labor and Workforce Development.”

“‘With the collapse of the construction industry, we would expect to see more severe unemployment,’ Smith said. ‘The industries that were driving that growth in recent years are the ones that have suffered the earliest and hardest in this recession.’”

The Salem News from Massachusetts. “Every cloud has a silver lining. And when it comes to our wounded economy, you might even be able to take your silver lining to the bank. There are a few hopeful signs and bargains for savvy consumers. These include low mortgage rates, still cheap energy costs, stable car prices, travel bargains, falling personal debt, dropping construction costs and even a retreat in some retail prices.”

“Salem Chamber of Commerce Director Rinus Oosthoek finds it’s a good time for his businesses to build. ‘If you want to do construction,’ he says, ‘everyone’s looking for jobs.’ In Marblehead, for example, bids for a repair job at the Village School recently surprised officials at $5 million below a $16.3 million estimate.”

“Lloyd Hamm, chief administrative officer at Eastern Bank, points out, the dramatic fall in home prices bedeviling some has been a blessing for others. Citing decades of experience, he says, ‘I don’t think housing has ever reached this level of affordability. … It’s a huge positive for young people.’”

The Boston Globe from Massachusetts. “Massachusetts home sellers are working harder to close real estate deals by offering more incentives to attract buyers and dropping prices in greater numbers, according to a report released yesterday by the Massachusetts Association of Realtors.”

“About 63 percent of sellers reduced the asking price on their homes last year, up from 58 percent the year before, according to the 2008 Massachusetts Profile of Home Buyers & Sellers. One-third of sellers offered incentives to sweeten the deal, including assistance with closing costs and home warranty policies. ‘Buyers are asking for a little extra help as they negotiate,’ said Gary Rogers, president of the Massachusetts association.”

“The profile is an annual survey of buyers and sellers conducted by the National Association of Realtors. Falling home prices also are attracting buyers, the report said. About 30 percent of buyers attributed their purchases to improved affordability or availability of homes, a question new to 2008. Only 4 percent said they wished they had waited to buy.”

The Times Union from New York. “The Capital Region’s stalling housing industry has found a new reason for optimism: a tax credit for home purchases included in the $838 billion stimulus package approved Tuesday by the U.S. Senate. ‘We think it will get people off the fence,’ said Philip LaRocque, executive vice president of the New York Builders Association. ‘There are houses waiting to be sold, and there are qualified buyers. But they’re just kicking the tires.’”

“Despite Tuesday’s Senate approval, the housing credit could be stripped from the final version of the bill. If that happens, ‘there’s going to be a lot of air taken out of the balloon,’ LaRocque said. ‘The credibility of the federal government to help us at all is on the line here.’”

The Buffalo News from New York. “Federal officials shut down Guy W. Gane Jr.’s alleged Ponzi scheme in May after he took $5.7 million of his clients’ life savings. The SEC earlier said that Gane had diverted $2.86 million of his investors’ money to himself, his two children…both named as relief defendants — company Vice President Lorenzo Altadonna and others. Gane spent $321,000 on travel and meals, the SEC said, and paid $79,000 to a landscaper.”

“Altadonna, a native of Binghamton…is married to Gane’s niece. Both men drove late-model cars — Altadonna had a BMW and a Lexus and a custom-made motorcycle, while Gane drove a new Cadillac — and liked to spend money, their investors said. The two had a radio program on WHLD called ‘Money Is Funny But It Ain’t No Joke’ and offered financial advice over the air. ”

“The two induced people to invest, their investors said, by guaranteeing 10 percent annual returns. They said they were investing in condominiums in Maine. The investors later learned that there were no condominiums.”

“‘We want justice,’ said Donna Sirianni, a lab technician from Buffalo, who invested $100,000 with Gane’s company through Altadonna. ‘I want him in jail,’ said Donna Sirianni’s husband, Mario, a retired Buffalo housing inspector.”

“One man, a Nabisco retiree, told the group that he had invested his entire life’s savings, $600,000, with Gane.”

The East Hampton Press from New York. “A year ago, recession warnings were on everyone’s lips. In the Hamptons, the talk was not of looming disaster but of how the high end of the real estate market was carrying onward and upward, dragging the median price of East End homes up despite slightly fewer sales, and how the local market, as a whole, seemed to be muddling through the tough times and even showing signs of a possible upswing.”

“Then September happened. By the end of 2008, almost every region of the East End and every sector of the market had seen precipitous drops, in both volume of sales and dollars that changed hands through real estate dealings. And as the real estate season gets swinging for 2009 with the coming holiday weekend, there is little question that the housing market on the East End has finally been knocked off its high horse.”

“‘There’s a standoff right now between sellers who want to believe that their houses are worth what they were at the height of the market, and buyers who don’t want to pay those prices,’ said Jay Flagg, managing broker of Prudential Douglas Elliman’s Southampton office. ‘The buyers right now are bottom fishers, vultures coming in with very lowball offers. They both have to come toward each other somewhat and when they do, we’ll see things start selling again.’”

“‘I think sellers are finally beginning to realize that if they want to sell their house, they need to make a drastic price reduction,’ said Morley Quatroche, owner of the Morley Agency in Southampton.”

“Rick Hoffman, regional VP for the Corcoran Group, said the inventory of houses for sale on the East End is higher than it has ever been and is increasing every month. ‘It used to be location—the adage of what’s the most important thing in real estate—now it’s value,’ Mr. Hoffman said. ‘It’s the psyche of the buyer. They read about the market and they think prices should be way down. It’s the psyche of the buyers in everything now: Bergdorf’s, car dealerships, everything. They want a good deal.’”

“Over long periods of time, 20 years or more, house prices on the East End have increased an average of about 10 percent a year, according to market watchers. From 2003 through 2005, the median prices in East Hampton and Southampton towns grew 17 to 25 percent per year. The prices leveled off in 2006, growing by only 4 to 8 percent, before jumping again in 2007 by about 20 percent.”

“In 2008, the median price dipped 9.5 percent in Southampton Town and 13.5 percent in East Hampton Town. The latest figures show a decrease, but still leave the median in both towns about 40 percent higher than they were in 2003. And that leaves a lot of correcting still to be had.”

“The past year was a bad one for the East End in terms of real estate sales. It had been more than 15 years since there had been a down year in the local real estate market—and 2008 was a very down year. ‘Everything fell apart in 2008,’ says George Simpson, owner of Suffolk Research Inc., which compiles statistics on real estate sales in Suffolk County. ‘We became like the rest of the country.’”

The New York Observer. “When the Center for an Urban Future, an urban policy think tank, released a report last week documenting in great detail the continued misfortunes of the middle class in New York City, many people responded with little more than a faint raising of the eyebrows and a disaffected shrug of the shoulders, as if to say, ‘Tell me something I don’t already know.’”

“Over the years, no big-ticket New York City item has seen such rampant appreciation as home prices, which increased 77 percent from 2002 to 2007. Just imagine if you paid $500,000 for a home in the early ’00s (putting down a $50,000 10 percent down payment, for instance). By 2007, it would have been worth $885,000. But unlike most other things measured in the report, which are expected to hold their value in the short term, housing prices are fated for a short-term splashdown.”

“Sure, real estate brokers are saying it’s a buyers’ market, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true. With the collapse of the Wall Street economy, property prices are poised to head south by an indeterminate amount and for an indefinite period. The question is whether middle-class New Yorkers will be able to take advantage of the discounted property values. The standard definition of middle class is people making 80 to 120 percent of the middle income in a given area. According to the most recent survey, taken in 2007, the median household income in New York City is $48,631.”

“Joel Kotkin, a research fellow at Chapman University in Orange, Calif., and a co-author of the report, is hoping home prices take a big tumble. ‘I know it will offend some people in the real estate business,’ Mr. Kotkin said, ‘but a 30 percent drop in real estate prices would be a very healthy thing for New York City over time.’”




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125 Comments »

Comment by SawItComing
2009-02-11 09:42:39

“Brenda Hildens 18-year-old raised ranch is listed for $125,000. It’s ……… ‘I’m selling this for way less than what it’s worth,’

Ha Ha, no.

I am sorry but there is not a raised ranch in the country worth more than $100k. I am basing this value on aesthetics and curb appeal of these eyesores.

Comment by reuven
2009-02-11 10:27:28

She hasn’t even sold it yet! She’ll be even more disappointed when it actually sells….for $55,000

Comment by not a gator
2009-02-11 11:15:29

Land in Maine is mostly useless and hence cheap. So are used houses. Why anyone would think (and therefore spend) otherwise is beyond me.

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-02-11 12:15:34

Land everywhere in this country (with VERY few exceptions) is mostly useless and should be incredibly cheap. The “running out of land” argument is truly used by only the dumbest of RE agents, and requires active denial to even say with a straight face. I had a RE agent tell me that whilst STANDING in an EMPTY city lot. Not underutilized. Not “rife for revitalization”. No. This was an empty block (as in GRASS was growing in it), had been empty forever, and to this day is still empty. We were standing on the door of a condo that was for sale (750K, 400/sq/ft) or rent (2K/mo) that I was interested in (several years ago) while she was telling me this. She justified the price by the “running out of land” speech. All the while, I’m looking across the street, watching the 4′ high grass continue to grow.

A 1/10th of an acre in almost any location in the country isn’t worth > 10K.

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Comment by exeter
2009-02-11 12:28:37

10 acres is barely worth $10k I don’t care where it is.

 
Comment by hd74man
2009-02-11 15:36:54

RE: 10 acres is barely worth $10k I don’t care where it is.

Just back from an expedition to Montreal for a Canadians vs. Maple Leafs game.

Picked up a couple of RE rags while in Burlington, VT.

Some VT rural land listings…

Rochester (boonies)…1.3 acres-$35k (no well/septic)
Middlesex (boonies)…10.7 acres-$150k (no well/septic)
Fairfax (boonies)….14.6 acres-$125k (no well/septic)
Derby (boonies)…9.61 acres-$80k (no well /septic)
St. Johnsbury (Desolation BLVD)…subdivision lot-$65k.
Burke (ski boonies)…6.6 acres-$89,500 (no well/septic)
Woodstock (Yupsville)…15 acres-$399k (no well/septic)
Grafton (boonie Yupsville)…13.5 acres-$395k (no w& s)

VT-$30k median family income and included as a “Big 8″ affordabilty problem state.

If I were runnin’ the state assessment dept. I’d value everybody’s raw land at a list price median-none of this $1000k per acre value for the taxman. but it’s $65k for sale to an idiot flatlander. That would fix the budgetary shortfalls.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-02-11 16:07:42

“but it’s $65k for sale to an idiot flatlander.”

The Vulva driving, sneaker-wearing fools better known as flatlanders by us natives have all but disappeared. So many came from NY metro area and so many will dump their junk in the woods as currency continues to evaporate.

Manhattan rentals, the center of the source of flatlanders is sinking folks. I had a meeting today with a colleague who rents in midtown and walks to work and he gave some interesting info without any prompting. I’ll post the details tomorrow in the bits bucket.

 
Comment by Eli
2009-02-11 19:41:55

Heh. I went to high school in St. Johnsbury. Go back every few summers to go fishing with my 10th grade English teacher and his wife.

A “good job” in St. Johnsbury area pays minimum wage or slightly above. The most prestigious job in the area was hands-down one at my high school.

 
Comment by AdamCO
2009-02-12 09:16:36

Only Alaskans aren’t flatlanders to us

 
 
Comment by hd74man
2009-02-11 14:53:04

RE: Land in Maine is mostly useless

Hey Gator-What do you use to wipe your azz?

Sand like the Arabs?

I prefer to use toilet tissue manufacturered by paper mills via trees cut from Maine’s timberland’s.

In my neck of the woods (no pun intended), demand for toilet paper seems to be a constant. Not quite sure how the land which provides the raw resource for its’ creation can be considered “worthless”.

But the next time I’m in FL, you can be sure I’ll be asking people which hand they write with, and I’ll be shaking the opposite in my greetings and salutations.

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Comment by exeter
2009-02-11 15:38:07

I dunno HD. The few paper mills left making crap wrap in upstate all use recycled newsprint.

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 15:59:16

“What do you use to wipe your azz?

Sand like the Arabs?”

Oh, gawd, I about messed myself laughing and had to look around for some of that TP made from good old Maine timber. Sheez, hd, you owe me a new laptop.

What a post! I wuz all pithed off and irate today, I mean like really loaded for bear and you saved the day, hd.

 
Comment by robiscrazy
2009-02-11 16:14:47

I was managing the service department at a document destruction (paper shredding) company up until lately.

Most of our shredded paper went to GP in Oregon for processing into toilet tissue and paper towels.

It makes me laugh to think that we shredded numerous docs for the real estate and mortgage industry. You could be blowing your nose or wiping with it as we speak!

Side note…..shredded paper was $250/ton last summer. Now it’s about $40/ton.

 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-11 18:03:56

TP, hdCrankyMan?

yeah, yeah, dude, nothing but pine farms in North Central Florida, so get a clue. Georgia Pacific has a huge plant out in Palatka.

and it isn’t “sand”, it’s “limerock” :D

 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-11 19:56:33

“Sand like the Arabs?”

How about a Joshua tree? Whatever doesn’t kill you will make you stronger.

 
Comment by hd74man
2009-02-12 10:38:31

RE: TP, hdCrankyMan?

All just in fun, Gator.

I just couldn’t help myself (laugh).

But to show you I’m such a good sport I’ll, let you take full responsibility for securing Palemtto’s new laptop!

 
 
 
Comment by Prime_Is_Contained
2009-02-11 11:24:06

“She hasn’t even sold it yet! She’ll be even more disappointed…”

Yeah, she is in the early stages of housing grief; already disappointed with her ASKING price! Wait until the real offers come in…

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-02-11 11:34:12

What’s a “raised ranch”? Is that a single-story ranch house perched on a raised basement?

Comment by CashOnlyPlease
2009-02-11 12:10:58

I believe that’s what we call a “split-level” out here in the West.

Comment by aNYCdj
2009-02-11 21:12:47

Split level means a 1/2 finished basement with stairs going down from the main house entrance…eg huge family room usually with a doors to the back yard

They are usually built on a property that slopes down tiny basement windows in front but full windows in the back

The other 1/2 is unfinshed for a 1-2 car garage and/or laundry room

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Comment by exeter
2009-02-11 12:11:46

They’re call guinea ranches here.

 
 
Comment by Kim
2009-02-11 13:24:47

“I am sorry but there is not a raised ranch in the country worth more than $100k. I am basing this value on aesthetics and curb appeal of these eyesores.”

I agree! I am renting one of those “eyesores” right now. Today I got a postcard from a used house salesman with some sold comps. $300K for this thing, my arse!

Comment by AppleEye
2009-02-11 23:56:31

In my area splits and ranches often sell for over $1M. People are idiots.

 
Comment by Dave of the North
2009-02-12 04:13:04

I live in one - not an eyesore at all. They are common here. (And they are worth whatever someone pays for it. -whether it is $ 50 K, $ 100K , or $ 300 K. I can hardly wait for the tax bill to arrive to see what the prov. gov. thinks it’s “worth” this year.)

Anyway the advantage of them is slightly cheaper cost to build because there is not as much excavation or foundation required. And the bigger windows in the lower level. On the other hand, we always seem to be going up and down the stairs. :-)

 
 
Comment by HousePoor
2009-02-11 15:59:45

Okay — so what IS it actually “worth” if not $125k (or less)? And how did she determine it’s actual “worth?

Comment by az_lender
2009-02-11 16:47:51

Yeah, I think she means what it woulda been worth in 2006.

If it’s “worth” more than the asking price now, she oughta just hang onto it. Guess she knows she’s not fooling anybody.

 
 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-02-11 09:47:30

Mr. Hoffman said. ‘It’s the psyche of the buyer. They read about the market and they think prices should be way down. It’s the psyche of the buyers in everything now: Bergdorf’s, car dealerships, everything. They want a good deal.’

The “is this microphone off” translation:

How dare you selfish consumers act in your own best interest, how dare you! Why can’t you step up and pull your weight - there are starving middlemen out there for crissake?!

Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2009-02-11 10:21:59

I think this more correctly shows the stupidity of Mr. Hoffman, a true moron.
People ALWAYS want a good deal. It’s just that in a bubble inflation economy, the PRICE at 10% over asking is considered a good deal when the prices are rising at 30% per annum. Why not “overpay”? It’s a sure bet you will get it back.
Now things are different. CREDIT is collapsing. LENDING is tighter. Prices are FALLING.
Now they want asking prices minus 25%.

Get used to it, moron. The free money dried up. It means a NEW price structure.

Comment by mikey
2009-02-11 12:50:48

b..b…but I CAN’T GIVE my house away !

It’s MY EZ money, zero-down, two year flip retirement INVESTMENT Fund..It says I CAN’T lose right here in my handy dandy discount Barnes & Noble RE book :)

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-02-11 14:32:15

I haven’t changed, when it comes to negotiating prices.

It’s just that now I don’t have to compete against idiots overbidding me, using fistfuls of borrowed money.

 
 
Comment by climber
2009-02-11 10:24:27

They’ve got it, they’ve got it. I just bought a truck for $4000 under dealer invoice, and I’m expecting for a similar deal when I buy a house. Why not? I’m certainly not going to pay someone a few hundred thousand dollars just for squatting on some dirt. It’s not like my future income is secure anymore. Why should I commit myself to 30 years of payments I’ll almost certainly not be able to make in today’s WalMarted global economy.

People want cheap, foreign manufactured goods, I want a cheap house I can afford on globally depressed wages. If I need to work for less to compete one of the biggest expenses I have control over is housing.

Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 10:41:27

“I’m certainly not going to pay someone a few hundred thousand dollars just for squatting on some dirt”

Nor should you. While addressing the lack of employment security ( which is where the conversation should -start- ) I’d only like to add that your ‘home’ doesn’t generate any income any more either. Nor were they ever intended to do so.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-02-11 11:22:23

Hey, wait a minute, D. One day, my home did indeed generate income. That was the day when a dollar bill blew into my front yard.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 12:24:55

LOL! By ‘that’ definition the parking lot at Walmart generates income for me too!

It just reminds us of those age-old conversations we’ve all had w/ freshly minted realtwhores. Especially when you try to explain to them the performance of a bond in comparison?

I’ll go out on a limb here ( and I’d like Ex-GSfixer and others to weigh in ) but what “I” think we’re seeing a lot of… is basically “job abandonment”? To date, I haven’t seen one group or individual ( other than those at the Jeld Wen window factory in Chicago ) so much as raise a fuss when being cut loose?

Seriously, it’s almost as if they’ve just been done a favor?

My theory, and stop me any time here, is that there’s a certain morbid curiousity for those being laid off to “see what’s on the other side”? They’se SEEN what the workforce has done for them lately ( and they’re NOT impressed! ) With all of the talk about cram down and work-outs and extended un-benefits, I really wonder if people aren’t willing to take a step back and re-evaluate in a sort of no-fault “Mulligan”? Just curious to see other’s responses.

 
Comment by Rancher
2009-02-11 13:37:31

D,
How many times have you seen a nicely dressed woman pay for her groceries with the
Oregon Trail card and then climb into her
fairly new car? My wife see’s this all the
time.

Well, if my wife can see this, then you can
bet the farm that everyone else can see it too!

And as times get tough, they’ll just say to themselves “Screw it, why work!” With so little between what you bring home after 40 hours and what the state will give you not to work, why even try?

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-02-11 14:38:23

I think we should have a “National Move-the-Decimal” day, where everyone in the country moves the decimal point on all their debt accounts two-three spaces to the left.

It’s fair for everybody, since most of our paychecks are moving the same amount. :)

 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-02-11 15:08:31

“….see what’s on the other side….”

I was on the other side five years ago. It took five months to find an equivalent position, and took a 20% pay cut in the process (while in the middle of a divorce),

I was hoping that I would be able to avoid a repeat performance for a couple of years (until both kids were in college). This starting-over BS is beginning to suck.

The good news is that, when you don’t have a keep-up-with-the-Joneses, pissing-money-away-while-bitching-that-you-don’t-make-more-wife, you find out how cheap you can actually live. I’m in a lot better position financially to handle this layoff, compared to where I would probably be, if I were still married.

My ultimate goal/retirement plan is to have two cardboard-box apartments, one in San Diego or Phoenix from October-April, and one on Lake Superior, or on the shore in Western Michigan, from May-September.

Since refrigerator sales are going to be really weak for several year, I’m thinking I should start looking for a cardboard box now, although I might be taking the risk of becoming a “knifecatcher”……..

That, or 20/40 foot shipping containers might be getting pretty cheap in the future……I’d only need one, it could be hauled back and forth. :)

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 16:27:03

GSfixer,

Thanks for sharing a candid and sober assessment. Everyone’s situation is a little different and where my wife works, the ones that need the job most ( are the ones getting laid off! )

Like yourself, my wife and I have even considered a studio apt. type arrangement p/t in Palm Springs etc. We really need to move up decisions we’d hoped we wouldn’t have to consider for some time? With people getting pink slipped there on a weekly basis, it’s hard *not to think about what your next move might be?

 
Comment by rms
2009-02-12 03:26:20

“With so little between what you bring home after 40 hours and what the state will give you not to work, why even try?”

That’s it in a nutshell, Rancher. Game over!

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-02-11 14:20:30

In Fort Worth quite a lot of home owners are receiving royalty checks for the natural gas located underneath their homes.

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Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-02-11 14:39:38

Now if I could run a pipeline underneath my sheets…….:)

 
 
 
 
Comment by Gordeaux
2009-02-11 15:18:52

Actually, wouldn’t the microphone off translation be something more like “Oh crap. Here comes the deflation!”

 
Comment by hunkydory
2009-02-11 17:10:03

ha - beautiful, edge.

 
 
Comment by rusty
2009-02-11 10:31:31

“‘The workshop is not designed for borrowers who are simply looking for a better deal on their loan,’ said Thomas L. Lavelle, a spokesman for the Boston Fed. Some people, said Lavelle,, will find out there is no workable solution. ‘People who at least heard that [at the first event] went away with a sense of closure,’ he said.”

————–
yeah! fore-closure!

Comment by climber
2009-02-11 10:56:44

‘The workshop is not designed for borrowers who are simply looking for a better deal on their loan,’

Which is another reason I want a deal when I buy. It’s the only deal I’m going to get. The feds just keep giving me reasons not to buy.

The government has been shafting me all my life, I’m looking out for myself.

First they stick me with the single renter’s tax, then when I finally get married and have kids they drive the cost of housing to insane levels. Now they want to “help” by keeping housing unaffordable and letting deadbeats occupy nicer houses than hard working families. Thanks folks.

Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2009-02-11 14:47:20

That’s the “welfare state”. They call it “Fairness”.
Fair Housing.
Equal Opportunity.
I call it parasitism.
Those of us who work and get robbed by the Fed’s and State get to support all those who don’t.
It is the END of America.
It is happening all over the Western World, with new arrivals leaching off the old-world under the guise of “fairness”.
We are doomed.

Comment by yogurt
2009-02-12 05:35:19

And what fine old institution did your state have 150 years ago that you had to get rid of? You don’t call that “parasitism”?

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Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 10:53:16

“on Block Island”

Perhaps some of the “Yankee” regulars can verify, but IIRC wasn’t Block Island the “real” inspiration for John Carpenter’s “The Fog”? When I used to visit Providence and Lincoln, RI on biz I thought the local pre-Revolution inhabitants built fires to simulate the wrong lighthouse so that ships would run aground and they could “relieve” the victims of their belongings?

Funny ( some things never change? )

Comment by Kim
2009-02-11 13:32:23

Holy cow! I sailed to Block Island with my parents in my younger days. The highlight of the trip was the walk from the marina up the hill to some place where ice cream was sold. The ice cream parlor and the marina were the only two buildings I can remember seeing.

So there are actual houses there now. Whoda thunk?

Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 13:44:09

Kim,

Of course that plays directly into my theme of “How far must one go to escape the clutches of The Bubble?” ( or Blob if you prefer )

I always wanted to go, especially since we would usually travel there right after Labor Day. I imagine it’s a wonderful sail. Of course where there was easy money to be made, we couldn’t leave well enough alone.

 
Comment by Joe Schmoe
2009-02-11 16:41:20

Block Island is a terrific place. I spent several summers there as a kid. (My mom grew up in NJ so lots of our summer vacations were out east.)

Block Island is a real throwback — it’s basically an island, there really isn’t much to do other than go to the beach, walk around the cliffs, and go fishing. Some might find this boring, but I found it to be very relaxing — even as a kid. It also wasn’t very crowded. It’s a really great place — if you are spending some time in the NE during the summer, it is well worth the trip.

Comment by Northeastener
2009-02-11 20:42:35

Block Island is a terrific place.

When I was about ten, my aunt and uncle took me to Block Island on the ferry. Along the way, the captain pointed out a fairly large shark tearing apart a whale carcass not to far from the boat… we think it was a great white.

I remeber the feeling I had that day like it was yesterday… excitement, wonder and just a little bit of fear.

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Comment by not a gator
2009-02-11 11:02:13

The East Bridgewater Star from Massachusetts. “The recession has caused steep spikes in unemployment throughout the region, and many of the job losses can be traced to the real estate downturn. The bulk of the new jobs created in many towns in Southeastern Massachusetts during the early part of the decade were connected to home construction, said Robb Smith, director of policy and planning for the state Executive Office of Labor and Workforce Development.”

“‘With the collapse of the construction industry, we would expect to see more severe unemployment,’ Smith said. ‘The industries that were driving that growth in recent years are the ones that have suffered the earliest and hardest in this recession.’”

Sadly, SE Mass was in very bad shape in the late 1990’s, when the current NE housing boom began. The construction biz may have helped some families for a while but mostly I suspect it allowed the region to play pretend for a few years. Now it’s back to their regularly scheduled slide into utter oblivion.

“Fall River–At Least It’s Not Fitchburg”

Comment by Xiaoding
2009-02-11 12:24:04

Ha! South Shore! Ha ha! Oh Brockton, how I miss thee!!

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 12:32:06

LOL! I lived in that area for three years. Loved that motel/restaurant/catering hall with the neon banjo.

 
Comment by hd74man
2009-02-11 15:10:55

RE: Ha! South Shore! Ha ha! Oh Brockton, how I miss thee!!

Brockton mayor was on the TV news last night whining and cryin’ about his $21 million budget shortfall, and when the hell was O’Bama gonna hurry up with the allocations of state bail-out monies.

Of course, he prefaced his commentary noting that PUBLIC SAFETY would be drastically IMPERILED because it would be neccessary to IMMEDIATELY lay-out off POLICE, FIREMAN, and TEACHERS if monies weren’t rapidly forthcoming.

Viewing soccer mommies went into immediate hysterics.

Gotta luv the “sky is falling-the barbarian hordes are coming” political blackmail by the public safety unions.

 
 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-11 11:04:46

“Lloyd Hamm, chief administrative officer at Eastern Bank, points out, the dramatic fall in home prices bedeviling some has been a blessing for others. Citing decades of experience, he says, ‘I don’t think housing has ever reached this level of affordability. … It’s a huge positive for young people.’”

Liar,
liar,
pants on fire.

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-02-11 12:00:31

Seriously, is this guy delusional or just stupid. Can someone please send the esteemed “banker” (perhaps his stupidity, and people like his are why all the major banks have effectively collapsed) a copy of Irrational Exuberance?

The level of affordability right now is still WAY under (much too expensive) compared to historic norms. Historically people pay about 3X their income for a home, in my area, the median family would pay 5X their income. That’s not “record” affordability, it’s not even GOOD, it’s pretty pi**-poor actually. The only reason it looks good is compared to the 10X median income it was 3 years ago. However, if your memory can extend past 3 years ago, this wonder-banker would know that now isn’t anything like historic lows. Chop off 2003-2008 and it’s actually historic HIGHS for home prices. And still not a good time to buy.

Comment by diogenes (Tampa)
2009-02-11 14:53:42

You must remember that these same “esteemed” idiots are the ones that used to living off inflation as an investment opportunity. They didn’t see the over-leverage as a problem. They didn’t see the “bubble” in prices. They don’t have a clue about how economies work. They just know inflation, and need inflation to make their schemes of borrowing and leveraging work.
High inflation + high leverage = vast wealth.
That’s why they need the “credit markets” functioning “properly”. How can you make money if you can’t borrow at 40:1??
Like rats at a reward bar of cocaine, in a maze, punching the lever, over and over for another hit.

 
 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-11 11:13:11

According to the most recent survey, taken in 2007, the median household income in New York City is $48,631.”

So the median household income is under $50K, but we’re talking about buying houses at $500K. Clearly (heh) a lot of distortion and confusion still in the system here.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-02-11 11:28:30

That’s all five boroughs.

Manhattan median is a little higher but not by much - about $55K-ish or some such.

Yep, the statistics are absurdly skewed.

Comment by UES
2009-02-11 13:31:03

Yes, by the rent control laws

 
 
Comment by Michael Fink
2009-02-11 12:07:41

Oh yeah, that’s gonna end well. That sounds exactly like FL, median HH income around 50K, median home price >400K. Prices are going to fall through the floor there; especially as the bankers find out that their skills aren’t worth 10 dollars a year, let alone 10 million.

WTF are these people thinking? Does nobody know how to do math anymore? How can all these “geniuses” on Wall St fall into such an obvious trap? It’s like buying stocks with P/E ratios of 100,000, or some stupidity like that. How can you be so stupid when it’s your JOB to be smart about financial matters?

I will truly be very happy to these these “Masters of the Universe” ripped down to size. What they are doing isn’t hard, and they are AWFUL at it, as they have proven by breaking the back of the American financial system (and many others). A drunken monkey pushing “Buy” and “Sell” buttons couldn’t have done worse, it’s almost not possible that anyone/anything could have done worse.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-02-11 12:47:51

Well to be fair, the larger than typical percentage of rental housing in NYC probably skews those medians. After all, losers-who-rent ™ are included in the median income figures but not the median house price.

Comment by NYCResident
2009-02-11 15:17:37

This is a valid point. By my recollection, something like 70% of NYC residents rent. So the median household income of NYC OWNERS skews much higher than the median income figures in total.

 
 
Comment by efrex
2009-02-11 14:19:34

Not that it necessarily changes things that much, but the New York median income level is skewed somewhat lower by fixed-income residents living in rent-controlled/stabilized rentals. I suspect that the median working household income is significantly higher, although still nowhere near enough to justify 500k starter apartments (or overpriced “luxury” condos in the middle of slum neighborhoods.)

Comment by not a gator
2009-02-11 18:14:14

Thanks for the clarification, everyone.

 
Comment by DC Too
2009-02-12 11:38:41

Good mother of God. I have been out of NY for a long time, but this is ubelievable. 177th and Amsterdam? 600K? I am speechless.

 
 
 
Comment by potential buyer
2009-02-11 11:14:50

I’d be curious as to this guy’s behavior if he opted to buy right now:

‘Jay Flagg, managing broker of Prudential Douglas Elliman’s Southampton office. ‘The buyers right now are bottom fishers, vultures coming in with very lowball offers. They both have to come toward each other somewhat and when they do, we’ll see things start selling again.’”

I feel like kicking his ass!

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-02-11 11:38:07

Lowball offers at this moment in time are a total waste of time.

You need the speculators to be beaten down and ridden hard like a third-world donkey. Check back in 2012-ish.

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 12:16:35

Dang, pussy, you’ve been on FYAH these past couple of days. I like it! Wish I had your talent for bon mots.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 12:46:02

FPSS,

In practice I’ll agree, but I don’t think it hurts a thing to be out there looking. After all, if one of us -were- fortunate to find an excellent property at a truly great value, they would be 3 years ahead of the rest of us.

Certainly there will be less to fear in 2012. By then we should have a well established base line and firm consensus on FMV. It’s just been my experience when you wait until the water is that ‘clear’ you’ll have lots of company. IMHO.

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-02-11 12:53:23

You won’t have any company at all! You didn’t in 1995 and you won’t this time because it’s much larger.

Credit-worthy borrowers are few and far between, and those with cash are rarer than hen’s teeth.

You’ve swallowed the myth of the “hordes of buyers waiting on the sidelines” hook, line and sinker. I suggest you deprogram yourself.

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Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 13:10:23

FPSS,

LOL! Yeah, schwew, thanks! You’ve no idea WHAT I’d give to wind the clock back to 1995!? No idea.

With as much money as we’ve thrown at this debacle we probably ‘could’ have a built a Time Machine and transported all of us back.

Now approaching 50, I find myself as much concerned with ‘time’ as I am with money. I’m willing to consider anything at this point that allows me the best use of the time.

 
Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-02-11 13:20:41

Look, if I may be permitted to be really blunt, I’ve been around the markets long enough to know a “knifecatcher mentality” when I see one.

You (and everyone else on this board) have been ridden so hard, and hurt from this debacle that there is a natural tendency to try and jump in.

Only when you feel no particular urgency to buy (”oh gee, I think I’ll just catch a movie this weekend rather than bothering to hunt”) will the time actually be right to buy.

So, Mr. Knifecatcher, if you catch this falling knife, you will not only fail spectacularly but get your b@lls cut off in the process, and at your age, you are not allowed any financial mistakes.

That’s my last word on this subject.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-02-11 13:52:24

Don’t waste time on worrying about how much time you have DinOR, I’m older than you.

“Live Forever …or Die in the ATTEMPT” :)

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 15:07:08

“You (and everyone else on this board) have been ridden so hard, and hurt from this debacle”

Wow, no argument ‘there’, and it doesn’t hurt to say that out loud once in awhile? In ‘my’ case I’ll have to admit it’s been largely psychological. I realize a lot of FB’s/GF’s will jump up and say “You’re lucky that’s ALL you lost!”

But when you think about it, isn’t that where the majority of the damage resides? It’s not like most of them had any skin in the game anyway? All ‘they’ are out is their little wet dream of early retirement. Hey, wait a minute..?

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 16:09:07

“You (and everyone else on this board) have been ridden so hard, and hurt from this debacle”

Everyone else? Who’s “everyone else”? Quite a generality. I sold out at the top(which ain’t sayin’ much for certain parts of FLA). I’ve got no desire to buy back in until I know what’s gonna happen with certain neighborhoods around these parts. Right now, if some creep moves in next door to me, I can move on. I’m actually more concerned about the societal fallout from this debacle than anything else.

 
Comment by DinOR
2009-02-11 16:38:35

palmetto,

I’m not going to say you’re missing the point -entirely- but I think it’s fair to say nearly all of us have been affected if not had our formerly very ‘private’ lives disrupted.

The fact that you were basically -forced- to bail at the top ( or be entombed in it for eternity and a day? ) The fact that you’re on the sidelines, waiting… for an “entry point” that even makes sense? The fact that we’re *not in a normal, appreciating stock market building a secure retirement?

It’s entirely possible the wife and I could be forced into providing our own Health Insurance years… earlier than we’d anticipated, and a million other considerations. Along w/ a heaping helping of Pork-u-lus sandwich.

If that isn’t ridden hard and hurt, what is?

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 18:07:32

Sorry, Din-OR, while I WAS more or less forced to sell, it had to do with the breakup of a marriage, more than anything. I was just lucky it was at the peak of the bubble. Really lucky. And yes, my private life was disrupted, but not because of the bubble. Sure, I want that little concrete block shack I’m always babbling about. And I could get one now, if I wanted. But I don’t want. Not right now, anyway.

Again, all the societal disorganization is what’s eatin’ my butt right now. Big time. My temper’s real short at the moment because of it. And what I do when I want to relieve that is call either my Senator or Rep’s office and go Christian Bale on their azz. Or their staffer’s azz. I don’t give a fark it’s not the staffer’s fault, either. If they can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. I figure Congress and their staffers are mostly scum anyway and since that’s how they treat us, I’ve got NO problem returning the sentiment.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 13:10:50

What I want to see when I go to buy is anxiety and gibbering fear in the eyes of the seller. I want to hear a lot of nervous talking. Big phony tooth smiles all over the place. I want to be able to smell the desperation and feel the frustration in the air so thick you could cut it with a knife. Then I’ll know I can get a good buy.

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Comment by Anon In DC
2009-02-11 13:36:50

You’re just such a soft touch. You must have a marshmellow for a heart. :)

 
 
Comment by parrish dave
2009-02-11 14:17:51

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t home ownership levels still above historical norms (percentage wise)? And if that’s true how can there be so much pent up demand? I am a currently thrilled renter btw, but not even going to think about buying for at least another 2 years.

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Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-02-11 15:52:16

Yeah, they peaked at about 69%. Probably dropped a few percentage points but historical average is closer to 60%.

And we will dip below because it always does. You can no more force people into “owning” than you can convert a cab driver into a rocket scientist.

 
 
 
 
Comment by climber
2009-02-11 11:43:56

I’m a potential buyer too, but my pay has dropped substantially since last year. Any offers I make this year will have to reflect that. It’s not about “meeting in the middle” it’s about what I can reasonably afford.

Bonus is gone
Stock options under water
Hours worked down 10%
Interest on savings torpedoed by the Fed cartel
Author bonus gone.

I’m going to be down well over 20% this year (that’s if I have a job at all by year end).

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-02-11 11:48:01

This is true for most people (and that’s why rents MUST drop.)

That’s why the equilibrium price is going to be much much lower. Current rents are unsustainable, and prices even more so.

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 11:55:25

“Current rents are unsustainable,”

True that. They’re still ridiculous even in Florryduh. And I’m in the market for another rental. Oh, there are places that have a cheap rent, if you like the sound of gunfire in the night.

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Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 12:00:34

Oh, and the rents on mobile homes are hilarious. I dunno what some people are thinking, they advertise a rental, the price looks good, I’m thinkin’, OK, now you’re talking and then I go to see the place and turns out it’s a mobile. Oh, and when you say “You didn’t tell me it was a mobile”, the answer is “You didn’t ask”.

People think they have candy-crappin’ property. Kudos to FPSS.

 
Comment by parrish dave
2009-02-11 14:20:21

Hey Palmetto,
Why not squat in Riverbend? Oh wait, I guess you still want to live LOL.

 
Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 14:24:59

LOL, dave, word on the street is that Riverbend(over) is a living hell on earth. I wouldn’t live there even if it was for free. You’d have pay me for hazard duty.

 
 
Comment by Neil
2009-02-11 13:07:39

So true!

Prices must become more competitive with rents. That will start happening in 2009. We’re a long way from the bottom. I believe Thornberg is now saying 2011? The Realtors ™ still cannot look out more than six months… sigh.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

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Comment by mikey
2009-02-11 13:02:12

I’m also a potential buyer…but on MY TERMS !

And although I don’t LIKE it, I’d RATHER lose a little money to inflation and the banks than a waste a small fortune on an over-paid realtywhore and LARGE fortune on some GREEDY seller’s over-priced POS .

STUFF that up your RIPOFF Economy and smoke it :)

 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-02-11 12:49:29

“bottom fishers” “vultures” — It probably doesn’t pay to insult the people who are ACTUALLY SHOWING UP WITH MONEY.

Comment by Anon In DC
2009-02-11 13:39:34

So right you are ! I’m tempted to write to that realtor.

 
Comment by Victhebrickv
2009-02-11 13:39:57

No sheet.

Or people that actaully have a job to pay their mortgage.

My father in law just lost his job yesterday. People with jobs are getting scarcer.

 
Comment by mikey
2009-02-11 13:41:52

Yeah for sure Jim.

Call me a CHEAPSKATE realtywhore and that’s ANOTHER 10k OFF my LOWBALL OFFER… just on general principle :)

 
Comment by Kim
2009-02-11 13:54:40

Suffolk posted an article in yesterday’s bits in which a real turd insulted buyers at least with at least five different words/expressions. Why it just made me want to run right out to an open house and give ‘em a fat 6% commission - NOT!

 
 
 
Comment by Neil
2009-02-11 11:49:20

For homes up to $200,000, Alderman said there is a nine to 12-month inventory. Homes $200,000 to $300,000, the inventory of homes is 18 months. Homes $300,000 to $500,000, there is a two-year supply. Homes $600,000 and above there is a three to seven year inventory.

Wow…
I cannot even model that exponentially… the $600k+ price point just breaks the regression.

Sellers will realize that prices are too high for buyers in 2009. When? I’m not 100% sure, but probably as the spring inventory hits the market and buyers remain ‘on the fence.’

Remember the days of Realtors ™ taunting us as we were ‘on the fence?’ Almost nostalgic. Now its ‘buyers are afraid.’ Of overpaying… Heck yes!

This will lead to a long Capitualation… Maybe 15 months. We’re already seeing it in Tampa and Pheonix, but not yet nationally.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

Comment by mikey
2009-02-11 13:33:05

Renters and potential buyers aren’t sitting on a fence.

We have the BEST seats in the Colosseum and Caesar’s ghost just released the Lions and Tigers and Bears on the dazed and confused RE agents, FB and GF !

Here kitty .. kitty here.. Over there…You MISSED one :)

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-02-11 14:51:20

You talkin’ to me? :-D

Comment by mikey
2009-02-11 17:55:58

Eat them up alive FPSS but if you puke on the rug again ..it’s out in the rain for you :)

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Comment by ozajh
2009-02-11 17:56:28

Lions and Tigers, yes. Bears, not so much.

It’s us bears that are sitting back, adjusting the sunglasses, and scarfing down pawfuls of Neil’s popcorn while watching the action.

 
 
Comment by gorobei
2009-02-11 17:23:55

The regression is actually pretty linear: about 6 months per $100K.

Note that ‘above $600K’ covers a lot of prices.

Of course, running regressions on 2 closed and 2 open intervals (in non-log price space) is a fool’s game.

 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-02-11 12:10:18

While foreclosures represent a small percentage of all homes on the market, Jim Watson of Coldwell Banker Watson Realty said the impact is significant.”

“‘It’s like a hole in the bottom of a bucket with the bucket being full of value,’ Watson said. ‘It’s slowly lowering the average sale price of everything.’”

BWHAHAHAHA! I know Watson all too well. He’s the same guy who said to me in 1994, “You can afford anything you possible want” when meeting with him and the mortgage creep from EvergreenBank. There we were earning $75k/yr combined and these shysters telling me and my wife that we should borrow $275k and buy as much house as possible. My wife and I had combined heartattacks at the mere suggestion of such gargantuan number. We ultimately bought a newly constructed shack for $90k and there were very few houses priced above $250k.

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 12:33:57

Yeah, the old “aw, c’mon, STRRREEETCH at little”.

Comment by palmetto
2009-02-11 12:35:11

Sheesh, I meant “A little, not “at little”. Dang, I can’t type or spell worth a splat today.

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-11 18:23:32

Yup, Realtors told my mom the same crap in 1994, this was in Eastern Mass. She griped for days about how stupid that was and how transparent they were about sacrificing their “client”’s (victim’s) financial health to get a bigger commission.

 
 
Comment by Sagesse
2009-02-11 12:23:52

For exeter and anyone in that area, about Rutland. That “upscale” Hannaford, that replaced the previous grocery. Locals told me ‘we do not use the things that they sell’. Apart from not needing them, and not being able to afford them. The joke is, Hannaford started out as a low cost chain, driving away Grand Union in upstate NY. The attempt to be fancy to satisfy downstate visitors leads to rancid biscottis, so-called ‘organic soups’ that sit for nobody knows how long (I asked), same for cheese that no one buys etc. Have seen locals in the aisles who don’t know what they are looking at, and I don’t say this in an uppety way. The layout is a cheap imitation of Wegman’s, all for show, no substance. I used to like the old store. There are so many bubble related absurdities.
For example, the new sidewalks in Fort Hudson, I think it is, miles of them.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-02-11 14:51:51

Those old markets were/are the greatest.
I hope they make a comeback.
In Ralphs the other day after their big expensive remodel to attract the high end and compete with Jensens…the aisles are narrow, the stuff is just packed with expensive stuff, and the plates of cheese to taste..don’t go there, watched a few old men put their fingers into the whole pile to grab up a handful..ewwwwwww
Prefer the old time markets.

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-02-11 15:25:50

Preach it, Sagesse! Here’s a story from the Slim file:

Last week, I had a dental appointment. Mostly a very slow cleaning from the dental hygienist, then a quickie howdee-doo from the dentist. Bill came close to $175.

They were all up in arms about the state of my gums, and insisted on one of those super-dooper deep pocket cleanings. For the princely sum of $655.

“Too rich for my blood,” I said.

They didn’t ask me if I wanted to make another appointment for a checkup in six months. I guess they figured that I was yet another patient who’s walking.

A bit of a backstory on this dentist: She was recommended by the boss when I worked in the bike shop. Back then, her fees were quite reasonable, and she did great work.

Then she decided that her future lay in cosmetic dentistry. Which prompted a (very expensive) remodel of the office. And a personal makeover for her. (Sorry, Dr. C, but even after your makeover, you’re still not a babe.)

She really cranked her rates up, and I couldn’t help thinking that I was paying for interior decorating.

End of the backstory.

As for that super-dooper deep pocket cleaning, I have no problem with this procedure. Had it done back in the 1990s. My problem is with paying so much for it.

So, I made a quick call to our local community college, which trains most of the dental hygienists in this part of the state. Guess what, they do this procedure too. For all of 50 bucks. I made the appointment.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-02-11 15:35:45

Sagesse,

There is so much to be said about your everyday observation I don’t know where to start but I’ll try…

Your example provides all the insight necessary as to why folks who’ve experienced a shrinking job base, chronic underemployment, declining housing values are suddenly saying “everyone wants to live here and all those everybodies are millionares”, hence believing there is a new economic paradigm. What ocurred with Hannafords attempt at upscaling is a small sample of the overall message sent to natives over the last 8 years leading them to believe “it’s different now(and different ‘this time’.) Upscale to a native is going from a Hyundai to a Chevy Metro. Throw a Cadillac in the mix and you get some incredibly disjointed perception on the part of natives.

The influx of visitors and non-natives appear to be wealthy to natives and for all intents and purposes, are in fact wealthy in comparison. Keep in mind that it doesn’t take much to be considered wealthy when everyone around you is earning $10 per hour and no benefits.

I’m not sure how much disappointment upstate and VT folks can deal with. They’re still hoping that somehow the ongoing decline in housing will have a magical reversal and the RealtorScum there are doing everything to perpetuate that false belief.

Comment by Sagesse
2009-02-11 16:47:22

One used to go to Vt for hot cider and not for Pomegranate juice.

 
 
Comment by not a gator
2009-02-11 18:28:28

Hannaford is also Sweetbay. They replaced Kash N Karry in Florida. GNV’s Kash N Karry made most of its money on keg sales, but Sweetbay has introduced fancy “NYC” bread, a crummy organic aisle, etc. They have actually WAY reduced inventory of regular grocery items since the transition. This makes NO sense. They must have forced out/canned the old manager. It used to be a regular grocery in there, now they have a tiny meat section, run out of items (especially fruit–although the produce does look nicer when it’s in, that’s a plus), and they have horrid selection on grocery items. They’d better keep selling those kegs because I’m ready to run back to Publix.

I actually looked high and low for pumpkin (canned OR frozen) and could not find any! The closest they came was some sort of frozen squash medley (apparently butternut mixed with acorn or turban or something like that).

 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-02-11 13:09:27

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Federal-regulator-urges-apf-14325404.html

some folks here didn’t like the ownership society
well, you’re getting the welfare society right up the booty

Comment by Mo Money
2009-02-11 14:49:26

“try to induce economically sensible restructuring of mortgages,” but offered no specifics.

Maybe because there are no viable specifics other than morally bankrupt bailouts for dumb lenders and dumb borrowers. Tell me again why I’m paying my mortgage ?

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2009-02-11 13:17:17

“One man, a Nabisco retiree, told the group that he had invested his entire life’s savings, $600,000, with Gane.”

Do the old phrases “if it seems to be too good to be true it probably isn’t” and “Don’t put all your eggs in one basket” mean anything to these greedy idiots ?

Comment by mikey
2009-02-11 13:35:01

The Cookie man…messed up..big time .

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-02-11 14:31:44

What’s that quote that floats around the HBB - the one that says if you distributed the world’s wealth evenly it would take X years to become reconcentrated?

The wages/benefits of the past (Fordist era) allowed this guy to amass $600k - what does he do with it - happily hands it back to the progeny of the robber barons.

 
 
Comment by Mr_Dave_O
2009-02-11 14:55:13

What’s a “raised ranch”? Is that a single-story ranch house perched on a raised basement?

You are correct regarding the use of the term “raised ranch”, at least here in MD. They are houses with exactly two stories, with the front door on the lower level, and the kitchen, living room, and bedrooms are upstairs. Looking at the front of the house it basically looks like a 2-story house. The lower level of a raised ranch is essentially treated like a basement, in which many have a family room or rec room and perhaps extra bedrooms. I’ve seen a lot of them in which the house is on a hill that slopes upward toward the back yard, so from the back of the house it looks like a 1-story house since you can just walk right out on the upper level going out to the back yard.

I’ve seen a lot of houses listed incorrectly as raised ranchers which are actually either split foyers (you know, where the front door is halfway between the upper and lower level and you have to go up or down right away as soon as you walk in), or regular ranchers that have an outside stairway that lead up to the front door.

Comment by janna
2009-02-12 13:29:06

Isn’t a “split foyer” a bilevel?

 
 
Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-02-11 15:26:51

Re: My question concerning Direct Deposit earlier in the day.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

It just aggravates me that it is a lot less work for someone to screw you, than it is to CYA from being screwed.

Comment by bluprint
2009-02-11 20:42:12

Fixer, I think I know what city you live in, and conincidentally a coworker told me today he received a letter in the last day or two that some account info/numbers had been compromised (he banks with a local bank). Based on that, it sounds like maybe this really is what happened.

Of course, it wouldn’t hurt to cash the check as discussed in your question, but based on the evidence as I see it, it looks like there really is some sort of breach that occurred which could easily affect direct deposits.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-02-11 19:54:17

“Homes $600,000 and above there is a three to seven year inventory.”

Sounds like San Diego…

 
Comment by measton
2009-02-11 22:19:07

WILKES-BARRE, Pa. – For years, the juvenile court system in Wilkes-Barre operated like a conveyor belt: Youngsters were brought before judges without a lawyer, given hearings that lasted only a minute or two, and then sent off to juvenile prison for months for minor offenses.

The explanation, prosecutors say, was corruption on the bench.

In one of the most shocking cases of courtroom graft on record, two Pennsylvania judges have been charged with taking millions of dollars in kickbacks to send teenagers to two privately run youth detention centers.

“I’ve never encountered, and I don’t think that we will in our lifetimes, a case where literally thousands of kids’ lives were just tossed aside in order for a couple of judges to make some money,” said Marsha Levick, an attorney with the Philadelphia-based Juvenile Law Center, which is representing hundreds of youths sentenced in Wilkes-Barre.

Someone was ranting about prison system as a business.

 
Comment by Pullthetrigger?
2009-02-11 22:53:37

“‘I’m selling this for way less than what it’s worth,’ she said. ‘But that’s because everyone is foreclosing. And people are going to buy those homes first.’””

Not really

 
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