Some Good Is Going To Come Out Of This
The Sacramento Bee reports from California. “California’s unemployment rate rose to 9.3 percent in December, slightly above the 8.7 percent recorded for the greater Sacramento area. Andrea Hawkins said she was doing well financially, running a mortgage business out of her Elk Grove home until the housing downturn. Now she’s struggling to pay her own mortgage each month. ‘It’s scary trying to make ends meet,’ she said.”
“Now the single mother of four has joined the ranks of those needing assistance. She visits food banks, clothes closets, churches and other charities looking for aid to pay bills and to feed and clothe her children. ‘I had to humble myself and put my pride aside,’ Hawkins said. ‘… It really doesn’t feel good.’”
The Daily Breeze. “Frank Torres climbed through a window, emerged from his Carson house and put his hands up. Slowly, he walked backward toward sheriff’s deputies, who detained him briefly but then let him go. Torres’ last stand Tuesday to save his foreclosed house was over. When Torres went to work Tuesday, the 28-year-old had no idea he would later find himself barricaded inside his former home for about three hours as deputies tried to talk him out.”
“He and his family were forced out of the house last month, but when he landed a better job paying more money, he figured he could resume making the mortgage payments. He just needed someone to listen, to let him show he and his wife could reclaim their house of seven years and raise their two daughters there. The bank, he said, didn’t need to sell it. But it was too late. He no longer owned the house. A couple of banks did.”
“Workers arrived Tuesday morning to clear out the Torres family’s last belongings. Notified at work, Torres raced home, shooed them away, locked himself inside about 10 a.m., and scrawled ‘I just want 2 be heard’ in large white letters on the roof.”
“Torres and his wife purchased the 980-square-foot, three-bedroom home in 2002 for about $210,000. He refinanced a year later, upping the loan to $254,000. He did it again in 2006, pushing his mortgage up to $316,000.”
“Then, in 2007, he got laid off from his job at Westways Terminal in San Pedro. Torres found temporary jobs at South Bay refineries, but fell six months behind on his mortgage payments of $2,650 a month. They filed for bankruptcy, but a judge later dismissed the case, she said, when Torres failed to arrive on time for a hearing. The couple stopped making payments in August.”
“In an interview, Torres said he wasn’t crazy. ‘Without our families we got nothing,’ he said. ‘Some good is going to come out of this. I know it. - I just wanted to make a statement, not just for myself, but for all Americans. That’s why I did this.’”
Time Magazine. “Suicide experts say there is a strong correlation between acute financial strains and depression, often a prelude to substance abuse and suicides. Warning signs are already erupting in parts of the U.S. hard hit by the housing crisis. In Los Angeles, calls into the suicide prevention call center run by the Didi Hirsch Community Mental Health Center spiked 65% in the second half of 2008 over the previous year.”
“There has also been a surge of training requests from fire and police departments from throughout Los Angeles County — even from a mortgage counseling company — to help deal with an upsurge in suicide risk. ‘The reality is we are already overwhelmed,’ says Dr. Kita S. Curry, the center’s executive director. With any publicity about her center, calls spike, suggesting unmet need.”
The Modesto Bee. “Last year was dismal for new home builders, and this year is expected to be worse. The construction industry has collapsed throughout the Northern San Joaquin Valley, with builders going bankrupt, delaying developments or simply quitting. The reason: virtually no new home sales.”
“Only 97 residential building permits were issued in Modesto last year, which was about 7 percent of normal. At the current sales rate, there are enough developed lots to last nine years. Stanislaus, Merced and San Joaquin county builders have spent millions on streets, curbs, gutters and grading for 13,000 lots that are sitting empty in unfinished subdivisions.”
“About 820 completed new houses were vacant and waiting for buyers in the three counties as of December, and about 500 others were under construction. Back during the boom, builders had 5,500 homes under construction at once and practically everything they finished sold immediately.”
“New home sale prices fell to a median $245,500 for those that closed escrow in Stanislaus during December. That was nearly 44 percent below the $435,250 median new home sales price in December 2006. ‘You can’t lose that kind of revenue and still have a profit,’ said Joseph Anfuso, who runs Florsheim Homes, which has been building in the valley for 25 years. ‘Now we’re just working to pay our bills and stay cash-flow neutral. Profit is out the window.’”
“Pam Franco opened her luxury Heirloom Collection development on one-acre lots south of Atwater in 2006 with a base price of $640,000. Now her 2,400-square-foot houses can be had for less than $369,900. ‘We sold just three houses last year,’ said Franco, who is starting her second year as president of the Building Industry Association of Central California. ‘It’s tough. We all of a sudden became a no-growth market.’”
“‘Would-be home buyers have taken a wait-and-see attitude,’ said Greg Gross, director of Metrostudy’s Central Valley division. ‘Others have lost interest or the ability to purchase a home. With regulation in the mortgage industry, buyers now have to prove their ability to repay their mortgages. Higher credit scores and more stringent documentation are required.’”
“Builders suggest that with the government’s help, increased new home construction could lead the country out of recession. Some experts think there are too many homes already. ‘There doesn’t need to be any new construction (in the Northern San Joaquin Valley). Migration is leaving and the bank-owned properties can be purchased for well below the builder’s cost,’ said Bruce Norris, a real estate investor and lender who leads California investment seminars.”
“‘This silly notion that builders are not building enough new homes to keep pace with demand is absolutely wrong and very harmful to the reputation to those who keep saying it,’ Norris said.”
The Recordnet. “The degrading economy and the ongoing credit crunch hammered commercial and multifamily mortgage loan originations in the fourth quarter of last year across the country, according to a new quarterly survey by the Mortgage Bankers Association. The group’s survey of commercial and multifamily mortgage bankers originations indicated that fourth-quarter numbers were down 80 percent year to year across all property types and investor groups. Loan originations for all of 2008 were down approximately 60 percent from 2007 levels. Commercial brokers in San Joaquin County reported that local loan activity was down similarly.”
“Randy Thomas, a Sperry Van Ness commercial real estate broker in Stockton, said commercial real estate deals these days are ’somewhat scarce.’ ‘The reason the drop-off was so great is that there were so many inferior loans made, and now banks are looking only for those who have gold-plated balance sheets,’ he said. ‘The doors have been shut for the marginal purchaser or investor.’”
“Gregory O’Leary, senior vice president with Colliers International’s Central Valley Industrial Group, said the slowdown in the industrial sector is the proverbial shoe that dropped after a downturn in residential led to another downturn in finance and then another in retail. ‘All of this is interrelated,’ he said.”
“The slowdown in retail sales will cut demand for the big industrial space in San Joaquin County, he said. ‘When you look ahead, no one knows how long this downturn will last or when we will hit bottom,’ he said.”
The Desert Sun. “The National Association of Realtors’ chief economist…Lawrence Yun…told more than 400 Realtors on Tuesday that the federal economic stimulus plan could help them sell homes…That could help in the Coachella Valley, where home sales are at their lowest levels since 1996. In December, the valley’s median home price dropped to $194,000, its lowest since early 2001.”
“John Young, a team leader for Keller Williams Realty and president of the California Desert Association of Realtors, said the credit would come at a crucial time. ‘Our bottom in unit sales was March of last year,’ Young said. ‘Most of us realize the marketplace we’re in, and (that) our median price is now below the national average.”’
“Yun, in his report, described the housing market as fragile for these reasons: Mortgage lending rates are at 50-year lows, but buyers aren’t responding in large enough numbers to keep up with foreclosures and the growing inventory. Buyers are on the fence over speculation the rate will drop to 4.5 percent. Because middle-income buyers can buy a median-priced home — and have a mortgage obligation that’s equates to what it was in 1998 — any further adjustment in price would be an overcorrection and will lead to economic damage.”
“With home prices tumbling, concern is mounting that current homeowners who are ‘under-water’ with their equity — its value is less than the mortgage — will abandon making payments all together. ‘Hypothetically, this is what keeps me up at night,’ Yun said. ‘If home prices keep shooting downward, it will hit us with another credit crisis.’”
“Jon Glanz, president of Sandhills Mortgage, said Yun’s address to the gathering in Rancho Mirage validated what he’s seeing in the marketplace. ‘We have to figure out a way to make folks want to get re-engaged in owning real estate,’ Glanz said.The real estate industry is the engine that makes our economy hot, he said. ‘With so much supply, we have to work on the demand side of the equation,’ he said.”
“Things such as the tax advantages for ownership of real estate across the board, not just for first-time homeowners, is a very proactive stimulant for this economy, Glanz said. As soon as the market comes back, those who have kept their homes off the market will find their way to Multiple Listing Services again. ‘And we won’t have runaway prices like we experienced in the past,’ Glanz said.”
The Press Telegram. “Despite the media’s ‘hammering’ of the industry, real estate in California, especially locally, shows strong sales and affordability numbers, an economist said Monday. California Association of Realtors Deputy Chief Economist Robert Kleinhenz said that the housing market will be ‘in a critical period’ in the next couple of months.”
“He predicts an uptick in activity in the first and second quarters of this year and rising home prices as the market takes off.”
“Kleinhenz said the economic slowdown began when the credit crunch in August 2007 stymied business and consumer spending. ‘It got worse and worse as we moved through the end of 2007 and into 2008,’ he said. ‘That has ultimately driven the economy into recession.’”
“California median home prices are down 41.5 percent year over year. The state’s peak price was $594,530 in May 2007 and it fell to $281,100 in December 2008, which was a drop of 52.7 percent, according to CAR figures. The Los Angeles County median home price decline was 32.6 percent, to $475,000 in December 2007 to $320,000 in December 2008.”
“‘We’ve never seen a price decline in one year the likes of which we saw last year,’ he said. ‘Totally unprecedented. The worst year-over-year decline we saw ever.’”
“On the bright side, affordability is much improved compared with the last few years, especially for first-time homebuyers to get a loan, where the median home price has rolled back to 2002-2003 levels, he said.”
‘Torres and his wife purchased the 980-square-foot, three-bedroom home in 2002 for about $210,000. He refinanced a year later, upping the loan to $254,000. He did it again in 2006, pushing his mortgage up to $316,000.’
I guess it’s impolite of the reporter to ask, ‘where did you blow the hundred grand?’
‘With home prices tumbling, concern is mounting that current homeowners who are ‘under-water’ with their equity…will abandon making payments all together. ‘Hypothetically, this is what keeps me up at night,’ Yun said. ‘If home prices keep shooting downward, it will hit us with another credit crisis.’
With the REIC and others furiously trying to get people to buy before prices have fallen enough, waves of future defaults are almost a certainty. Credit will almost surely get worse, not better. Does this not keep him up at night? Or the UHS in general?
Torres and his wife purchased the 980-square-foot, three-bedroom home in 2002…
Being forced out of a $2600/mo, 980 sqft shack in San Pedro is a blessing in disquise.
But the media will make a martyr of him.
San PedroCarson.Slightly better, I guess…
“Torres raced home, shooed them away, locked himself inside about 10 a.m., and scrawled ‘I just want 2 be heard’ in large white letters on the roof.”
How about, “2 dumb 2 be given a mortgage”, or “2 leveraged 2 pay it back” ?
Or “2 illiterate 2 be writing things on the roof.”
Why didn’t Child Protective Services take his kids away? He’s an irresponsible wack-job.
The amount of sympathy that homedebtors get is truly disgusting. They’re treated like America’s Heroes!
“I just wanted to make a statement, not just for myself, but for all Americans.”
He didn’t survive the WTC collapse, he bought a house he couldn’t afford. Why is the press sympathetic?
reuven,
As usual we’re only getting bits and pieces here? The guy claims that he was making payments as recently as August of last year? So at only 5 or 6 months of arrears we’re having a “rooftop stand-off”?
I don’t think so. Granted that’s quite awhile but given “zombie banks” have been reluctant to foreclose this just isn’t adding up.
Oh, I realize in CA only your ‘original’ loan is considered “non-recourse” but given the chronology he wouldn’t have but rec’d a Notice of Default by Nov/Dec? So a month later we’ve got armed deputies out front?
Nut job.
He could rent a much bigger place to raise his kids in for $2K/month and save the extra for the day when he can actually afford to be a homeowner. The problem is that the media goes along with the notion that these people are homeowners when they never were, they were renters who bought a mortgage. What they have lost pales in comparison to what they’re putting their community through by insisting on the “I am a homeowner” vanity despite all reason.
..I guess it’s impolite of the reporter to ask, ‘where did you blow the hundred grand?’
I’d bet Torres honestly wouldn’t know.. he’d see 3 grand where the AVT is sitting.. 2 for the new bike. Some vague memory of vacations here and there that mighta cost 5K? maybe 8?.. Paint job and wheels on the truck were a couple more.. oh.. the stereo system, but that’s small potatoes.. How many times did they go to Vegas? It’s all a blur.. a little speculation in the markets with his brother in law might account for another 5 or so.
But that’s not where the hundred grand went. A hundred grand is a BIG chunk of money. Did someone get sick? No.. A few dental bills but that’s about it. Hmm.. All these little nothings can’t have sucked it up.. where did that money go, anyway..
“Pam Franco opened her luxury Heirloom Collection development on one-acre lots south of Atwater in 2006 with a base price of $640,000.”
luxury Heirloom Collection development?
I would call that Pam Franco jumping the shark.
http://www.1acrehome.com/
Heirloom Collection -Atwater
Photo Gallery has interiors.
“We hope your home will be filled with many happy events, photo albums by the volumes and treasured family memories. Your Heirloom Collection Home is the pride of our family. Our hope is that your new home will indeed be your Heirloom, something cherished, from generation to generation.”
Buy an “estate” - Be good enough for your grandkids.
The linked advert states that these houses are “close to the city”. What city? They are in Atwater.
I guess the truth would hurt. Something truthful would be “conveniently located halfway between Stockton and Fresno”.
The website’s actual wording is “Quiet Country Setting and City Close” which is even weirder. While pondering that I thought I saw a link to “View Our Homes at Saliva Meadows” in my peripheral vision… turns out it was “Silva” Meadows, to my disappointment.
“On the bright side, affordability is much improved compared with the last few years, especially for first-time homebuyers to get a loan, where the median home price has rolled back to 2002-2003 levels, he said.”
Not quite. In Eureka/Humboldt, we’re at early 2005 levels right now. So, about a 15% drop from the peak. Still way, way too high when I see crapshacks of 900 square feet and 70 years old in disrepair going for $300K+ in areas where most houses are rentals with dope dealers as tenants. I think I’ll continue to rent (until I can get outta here).
Same here in the choicer parts of the East Bay. “Completely-on-crack” prices have moderated to merely “insane”, but are still far, far above sustainable levels, given neighborhood HH incomes and comparable house rents.
Not to mention the rate of acceleration in local unemployment.
Likewise in the better parts of San Diego.
“We have to figure out a way to make folks want to get re-engaged in owning real estate,’ Glanz said.”
How stupid is this guy? I mean, really. It’s simple. Good paying, stable jobs for one thing. Reasonable prices in line with incomes. Safe, stable neighborhoods. Attractive, livable construction. Non-rabid governments that don’t artificially keep property assessments high. Stuff like that. But this sh*tforbrains can’t figure it out.
Oh, you know what would help, too, Mr. Bonenuts? Being able to do business with your fellow man without feeling like you have to keep your hand over your backside.
Just imagine the Sh*tstorm that would happen on Wall Street if everyone who has a 401K shifted everything into cash only ? That’s my plan until the rip off artists and bonus babies are gone. Seriously, anyone still contributing to a stock based 401K is crazy as the WS crowd sells into all your purchases.
“Just imagine the Sh*tstorm that would happen on Wall Street if everyone who has a 401K shifted everything into cash only ?”
I’d love to see it. I think we should try to encourage our friends and neighbors along those lines.
Forget about “Hope Now”. “Cash Now” is more like it.
Most of my retirement money is out of the stock market. And I’d like to thank the HBB-ers who were sounding the warning bells a year ago. Moved out of stocks just in time.
Ours is mostly cash or CD’s, the little part that was left in equities after I started reading this blog is down between 25 and 35%. We get weekly calls from the “advisor” and I truly don’t know what to say. I’m afraid of inflation, but don’t trust this guy too much for obvious reasons.
This question may have been asked before, so sorry if it is repeated. If so many people are strangled and can’t pay their debts and this in turn is feeding the credit crunch, wouldn’t it be a good idea to let people cash in on their 401 K’s with minimum penalties and no income tax or a smaller income tax? Wouldn’t this free up some money to pay down debt? Sorry if this is a very stupid question.
Ditto. People who parrot “You can’t time the market” and “you’ve just gotta buy and hold” and so on are just selling you. You shouldn’t sell into dips, that much is true, but you shouldn’t just sit there until the dip is in your rear view mirror either.
No, you should not cash in you 401K to pay off the vultures who lent money and sold your mortgage off in CDS and credit card companes whose usary rates make vinnie goombah look like a piker. You 401K money is protected from these slimebags if you need to go BK route and you’ll need every dime of it when you are forced to retire at an early age thanks to the disaster we are in.
Ohhh, I didn’t know that 401K’s were protected from bankruptcy. They are not protected from inflation, though, and I am getting very uneasy as the better interest CD’s mature and it gets reinvested at 1% or sits in cash. Since I’ve been reading this blog I’ve had no illusions that even being a renter and a saver I would be spared the wrath of this mess, and I confess that right now I’m completely lost.
Mo Money,
I’ll agree but that doesn’t take away from palmetto’s point. If these guys can’t get it in “one sock” we need to establish an upper tier of very select companies that can not be shorted, leveraged etc.
If we can come up w/ a “No Short List” to Save The Banks! we damn sure can come up w/ something to protect the workforce simply trying to save for their own retirement!
The stock market isn’t exactly “protected from inflation” when it goes down. I’d rather take a little 3% nick to my real net worth (and you’ll make up for part of that if you are receiving any interest) than a 40% evisceration!
Same principle with rent vs. buy - sure, I may be throwing my money away by renting, but I’ve thrown a lot less away than most people who chose to buy in the past 5 years. And I’m not stuck with the choice of continuing to overpay for the next 30 years or having my credit trashed by walking away.
Those sitting in cash will be able to take full advantage of what will likely be investment opportunities of a lifetime once both the real estate and stock markets have bottomed out. That won’t happen for several years, in my opinion.
…cash will be able to take full advantage of what will likely be investment opportunities..
It’s understandable that there’s been little or no thought applied to the eventual recovery around here. The HBB was a pioneer in forecasting the fall .. thanks to this brain trust readers were blessed with an insightful, detailed outline of the series of events it would entail. Almost all the tumbling dominos were placed in their proper position, some years prior to things going sour.
A recovery will come. Just as was true in the bust, each of a long series of major and minor recovery events will happen as their time arrives. It’s not too early to devote some thought on what they will be and when they will occur, and position oneself favorably, perhaps even as early as now. I’m not suggesting it should or even could happen here, as a group effort. In fact that’s highly unlikely, imo. This machine wasn’t built to do that job.
I went to cash about 18 months ago and am now slowly wading back into equities in my retirement accounts (money I won’t need to touch for 17 years) over the next 12 months or so. Equities may be down for 1-3 years but I don’t think the wall street crowd, of which washington dc is a wholely owned subsidiary, will let the market drift sideways like in the 70s again.
My retirement savings have been roughly 95% in cash for the past year. If I had followed the stupid but ubiquitous advice to “buy and hold,” I would have lost what, 40% of my money in one year? I don’t see how you even recover from that unless you’re still in your twenties.
She visits food banks, clothes closets, churches and other charities looking for aid to pay bills and to feed and clothe her children. ‘I had to humble myself and put my pride aside,’ Hawkins said. ‘… It really doesn’t feel good.’”
“It really doesn’t feel good” Yep, that’s the way it is when the ‘feel good’ society meets reality.
“In Los Angeles, calls into the suicide prevention call center run by the Didi Hirsch Community Mental Health Center spiked 65% in the second half of 2008 over the previous year.”
I finally saw the movie “Crash” the other night. Excellent flick. If living in LA is even close to what is represented in the movie, that’s enough to want to call a suicide prevention call center, without foreclosures. Heck, a foreclosure would be a relief. Really demonstrated the pressure cooker of polyglot multiculturalism.
Manners are an all-important survival tool, along with being fast on your feet.
I can recall being in the midst of all sorts of negative emotional stuff when I was living in Pittsburgh during the early 1980s.
I knew people who, if they were living through better times, would have had a good bender now and then. But, in a town with jobs being scarce and unemployment up near 20%, they became full-blown alcoholics or drug addicts.
And, after several years of dealing with unemployment and under-employment, I sought help for depression. I’ll never forget what the intake counselor said, “You have low self esteem.”
To which I was tempted to say, “Well, no shhhhh. If you’ve had to go through what I have, your self esteem would be down in the basement too.”
My self esteem took a turn for the better after I left Pittsburgh.
Probably 90% of what causes depression has more to do with environment and associates than anything else.
Agreed. Brain chemistry is to the shrink/pharma industry what cow farts are to global warming.
my wife calls its sh*tsburgh
I called it that too. Especially as I was preparing to leave for good.
So is your CCW permit.
True that.
I remember seeing Crash in 2006. I thought, “Well, Hollywood did a pretty good job this time. But so far as depicting trends in SoCal, they ARE about forty years late.”
So maybe “Falling Down” is more reflective of the actual scene?
I would have to say, Yes. But it’s sooo 1993.
I have a very dear friend who was killed two weeks ago in LA when someone decided they would try to drive the wrong way on the freeway. Because the maniac was killed in the collision, we’ll never know if it was suicide, but it’s difficult to imagine it wasn’t.
In death, people often get whitewashed with superlatives, even if they’re not deserving up them, but my friend was a truly wonderful person. Selfless, honest, sweet. The type of guy you could call at two in the morning amidst an emergency and he’d come without asking why. Not that the story requires irony, but I find it very sad that someone who worked with troubled youth was killed by one. Left a wife and three young kids behind.
That sucks, sorry to hear that Lionel.
Oh Lionel. You sound like a wonderful friend–I’m so sorry to hear of this.
So sorry to hear about your friend, Lionel.
IIRC, your friend was in law enforcement, innocently on his way to work that morning. He was liked and well respected by his peers, and people the press interviewed. I remember he helped kids at risk, or who had already screwed up their lives. That story is etched in my mind. My prayers and thought are with you, others, and his family. IIRC, the wrong way driver was from Van Nuys. I’ve always wondered if the WWD was a drunk illegal.
Can you direct me to any statistics that show illegals are more likely to drive drunk than US citizens? I had heard the opposite — that they’re less likely to commit crimes of all sorts due to fear of deportation.
“In poll after poll Americans, of both parties and of all races, have said over the past decade that they want less immigration, legal as well as illegal. Their arguments are the familiar objections to newcomers: they take American jobs; they are a burden on taxpayer-provided services; and they commit crimes (though most illegal immigrants avoid detection by scrupulously adhering to the law, even to the speed limit).”
Source: The Economist, March 10, 2005.
Some links on immigrants and crime. I’ve focused specifically on gang-related crime and prison demographics:
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceusandincarcerated.html
http://www.streetgangs.com/topics/2007/033107illegal.html
http://www.cis.org/articles/2008/gangrelease.html
http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/homeland-security-secretary-janet-napolitano-deport-criminal-illegal-immigrants
http://www.novatownhall.com/blog/2006/08/illegal_aliens_crime_and_gang.php
No, there is nobody in LA who talks like any of those characters and as far as racism goes, LA is ahead of any other town I lived in (incl San Francisco, Boulder, Denver, Miami, St. Louis, etc.). LAPD are cowboys and there are high profile incidents because people film things here, but the reality is that the power structure is largely run by “minorities” and identity politics rules most of the infrastructure. City contracts are awarded almost solely on the basis of being a DBE/WBE and not on qualifications. There are more rich black people in Ladera Heights than there are any other city in the US. Crash is a kind of sanctimonious film student’s vision of life within a few blocks east and west of Sepulveda with a quick visit to K-town. But it’s interestingly made.
“He predicts an uptick in activity in the first and second quarters of this year and rising home prices as the market takes off.”
-Robert Kleinhenz
Oh my god. This poor man’s head is so empty that time probably slows down when it goes by his ears.
Has there ever been a period when the economy was shedding 600,000 jobs a month and housing prices rose?
Not on a national scale, but that intensity of job loss was occurring in parts of the Bay Area in the early 2000’s, while meanwhile house prices doubled.
“that intensity of job loss was occurring in parts of the Bay Area in the early 2000’s, while meanwhile house prices doubled”
Yes and no. You weren’t seeing 600k jobs a month disappear in NCAL, or the unemployment rate would quickly have gone to 100%. IIRC, it never went above 7% overall for the Bay Area, though tech naturally fared worse. Bad, yes, bad as today? No.
House prices in NCAL were only able to double from 2000-2007 (they tripled in much of SCAL) thanks to all that wonderful, unregulated credit “innovation” we’ve all come to know and love. Which ain’t coming back anytime soon.
“…while meanwhile house prices doubled.”
Off what base of (1) house prices; (2) house price dynamics (think first derivative here); (3) hh net worth; (4) inflow of financial capital from trade partners with strong economies (e.g. China); (5) labor market dynamics (time derivative of unemployment).
Compare then and now on points (1)-(5) and you may be able to perceive why it ain’t about to happen again currently.
Forgot to mention: Number of foreclosures already in latent or active for sale inventory and new ones scheduled to join them over the next couple of years…
“This poor man’s head is so empty that time probably slows down when it goes by his ears.”
Oh, no. Einstein meets the HBB.
The economics profession has not run out of stupid people yet.
As soon as the market comes back…
Glanz, hands over ears, then turned his back on the reporter and started chanting, “Nyahh, nyahh, nyahh, nyahh!”
I just can’t get over this guy…
“Kleinhenz said the economic slowdown began when the credit crunch in August 2007 stymied business and consumer spending. ‘It got worse and worse as we moved through the end of 2007 and into 2008,’ he said. ‘That has ultimately driven the economy into recession.’”
I just want to grab his head and scream into his face, “What do you think caused the credit crisis??? Yes! Overpriced housing!!!”
lavi d,
Excellent point! Had people not been paying out 78% of their pre-tax income just to make their mortgage payments WTH would they need a credit card for?
Well said, had people been making $1,000-$1,500 a month payments ( instead of $2,500-$5,000 ) they wouldn’t have done all that serial re-fi’ng to pay off the plastic.
Precisely, lavi d!
The “credit crunch” was caused by…TOO MUCH CREDIT!
Why don’t any of the political advisors understand that?
A coworker of mine (project coordinator, admin type), probably 35-40 years old, married to a teacher with 1 kid, just told me that they have a reverse mortgage on their condo, which is now worth 1/2 of what they paid for it.
How is it possible for someone of that age and with those prospects to have a reverse mortgage, and why would a bank do such a thing?
Because they’re banks. They can’t help being stupid.
They’re lookin’ for a bailout
In all the wrong places
Looking for an FB
In all the wrong faces…
I’m sorry your regular loan officer is out sick today. Take these papers over to Mr. Snidely Whiplash. He can help you fill them out.
1. What is a reverse mortgage?
A reverse mortgage is a special type of home loan that lets you convert a portion of the equity in your home into cash. The equity that built up over years of home mortgage payments can be paid to you. But unlike a traditional home equity loan or second mortgage, no repayment is required until the borrower(s) no longer use the home as their principal residence. FHA’s HECM provides these benefits. You can also use a HECM to purchase a primary residence if you are able to use cash on hand to pay the difference between the HECM proceeds and the sales price plus closing costs for the property you are purchasing.
Sounds like she may be smarter than you think.
Isn’t there an age limit on a reverse mortgage?I thought it was like 62 or something?
I see a lot of the slimeball realtors pushing this crap now.
How about the cash4gold commercial during the superbowl.If that is not a sign I don’t know what is.
I miss the godaddy adds.
What equity? They are down by 50%.
She already indicated that she doesn’t have the income to reliably pay her mortgage, taxes, and HOA (her mortgage alone is about what I pay in rent, and she thought my rent was “wow, a lot”). Essentially, she’s living off the reverse mortgage, which means she will never be able to move.
But HOW IN THE HELL did she get a reverse mortgage when she’s underwater? How does the bank expect her to pay the money back when she can’t even afford normal mortgage rates, much less the exorbitant rates charged to a reverse mortgage?
But V, they’re banks. They can’t help it, they’re stupid.
My bet is that she meant negative amortization mortgage, NOT reverse mortgage.
She is confused. I have a reverse mortgage, which I received in 2006. I had just turned 62 which is the minimum age. My id (and my wife’s) was checked. In 200I I had a 60M mortgage on a house I had purchased in 1971 for 18.5. When I refinanced in 2001, the house was appraised at 135. which I thought then, was too high.
The house was appraised at 385. and saftey inspected.
I spoke to a government rep about my reasons for the reverse mortgage and when it was time to sign the papers
another government employee came to explain each and every clause in the contract.
The max in my area was 362.5 and we qualified. The fees were 17m and the mortgage was paid in full. We had
an overage of 95m which we can draw at will. So no mortgage payments. Interest on the loan accrues,and the same interest plus one half accrues to the home equity account. After drawing out 50m for home improvements,
I owe 150m and have an available amount of 60m. With no more mortgage payments my monthly budget is positive for the first time in 30 years.
I’m not one of the brilliant financial people on this blog so I don’t normally post. I try to learn.
Just for information, the 400m houses on my block are selling for 235.
I think you meant “k” instead of “m”.
M means millions. K means thousands….
no repayment is required until the borrower(s) no longer use the home as their principal residence
Sounds like she’s stuck in the place for life, assuming you can’t just “walk away” from a reverse mortgage.
Am I correct in inferring that she has both a regular AND a reverse mortgage? I didn’t even know that was possible.
Yeah, that’s right. Maybe Darrell in PHX is right and she’s just confused.
A snippet from an MSNBC report today:
Lockhart said that policymakers are eager to prevent a large drop in home values from their current, deflated levels.
“Just as we had a large overshooting to the upside. Is there any way to prevent going much further to the downside? That will cause tremendous harm to the U.S. economy, to the financial system and it’s not necessary,” he said.
Excuse me Lockhart but did you know that some families actually earn less than $50k per year? It might be a good thing if prices were to drop to say AFFORDABLE levels.
Though deflated, housing prices are mostly still high by historical standards. The conditions that supported those standards will likely not exist in the future even to the extent they still exist (stable jobs, relatively high incomes, e.g.), hence even more downward pressure on prices.
Lower building prices are only bad for those that derive their income from housing (RE industry and government). Lower prices are great for those needing shelter or to house a business.
How can he admit there was a large overshoot, but then pretend that a decline to the norm would be harmful and unnecessary?
I think what he is saying is that we are now at levels below normal and he doesn’t want to see a large overcorrection.
I disagree. I think we’re still well above normal in many areas.
I also think that supply being crazy high and jobs totally non-existant, the LAW of supply and demand dictates that we will have a massive over-correction regardless of what the government does to try to prevent it.
Much of the San Francisco peninsula is still priced at $400-$600 per square foot, while renting at maybe $2 to $2.50 per square foot per month. Prices still have to come down by 50% (or rents have to double, ha!) to return to fundamentally justified levels.
Good news: the pace of declines seems to have accelerated over the past couple of months.
Yeah, about 1/2 of ALL the families in the entire country earn less then 50K/yr (IIRC, 50K is about the median HH income across the USA). That means that the median income earner can afford about 100-150K homes. We’re not even close to finding affordability for that sector of the economy.
LA Times ran an Editorial suggesting that we solve our budget crisis with a 5% surcharge on state taxes paid.
The only thing nice about this idea was they wanted to apply it across the board, not just to people who make “too much money.” (Remember the meathead tax, proposed by Rob Reiner?)
However, it will kill California small business. It’s too easy for California small business to move to Nevada, especially with all the cheap places to rent there….
The only thing the CA state legislature knows how to do is raise taxes. Last thing I read, Ds & Rs are currently working out a “compromise” that will:
–nearly double the VLF (auto registration tax)
–increase state income tax 2.5%
–increase the sales tax a full point
–increase the state gas tax 12.5 cents /gallon
Oh, and a few cuts may be made… stuff we don’t need like teachers, police, firefighters or unemployment benfits. But don’t worry, the prison guards watching over all those evil pot-smokers, and all those politically-connected bureacrats with 6-figure salaries will be well protected –as will all benefits and subsidies to illegals and their employers.
Hey –we got our priorities here!
What a brilliant idea, raising taxes going into a major recession! Leaving California is looking more attractive every single day, and that’s something I wouldn’t have even considered a few years ago. I doubt I’m the only one.
Interesting the legislature doesn’t both applying surcharges on Property Taxes. It would seem easy enough to get around Prop 13. But, we don’t want to upset the majority of Californians who own (multiple) properties but don’t have any income (retirees, SSI, welfare, etc.)
By the way, we need to cut a few firefighters & police…$125K starting for a beat cop or $200K+ for a batallion chief at Cal-Fire is a bit too much.
No, you’re not alone. I’ve lived in So Cal since 1962 (under 5 yrs. old), and its turned into an expensive 3rd world toilet bowl. But where to move is the $64K ?
I nearly jumped through the TV last night when I saw that. Already closing schools in Richmond too — who needs education and Police/Fire when we have all these illegal immigrants to house, feed, and provide free health care for?
I seriously think God hates stupid people, and to punish them he’s going to smite all the dumbasses I see every day. One can only hope…
Rob
they pull the same stuff everytime. Float a tax increase, and when people object and stamp their feet, legislature threatens to cut into the most vital services first.
But i’m gonna guess that while there is no law against laying off cops and firefighters, there are many that disallow cuts in survices to the illegals.. Illegals is the new black.
Unfortunately, it’s not just an editorial opinion. The deal between the gov and legislature currently includes a 2.5% surcharge, which could go to 5% if Calif. doesn’t receive enough (and I don’t know the defn of enough) funds from the federal gov’t in the stimulus bill.
Clearly, raising taxes in a recession (or worse) is bad policy, but Calif is faced with a $42 billion deficit. There’s just no way to make that up with spending cuts. You might argue that there are better revenue raising measures, but they already have a sales tax increase, a tax increase on gasoline and a vehicle license fee increase in the agreement, so that doesn’t leave many other approaches.
I want to be a realtor™.
I want to run around, waving my hands in the air happily prattling on and on about “when the market turns around” and, “when sales take off again, large, sparkling birds will take flight and unicorns will crap candy and Lassie will come home and Ol Yaller will come back to life and…
…wait. Zombie Ol Yaller’s probably not a good idea.
Never mind.
Ol Yaller’s brought to mind an old Disney movie with the following lyrics:
Old Yeller was a mongrel
An ugly, lop-eared mongrel
Fancy free without a family tree
But he could up and do it
And prove there’s nothing to it
And that’s how a good dog should be
Here Yeller
Come back, Yeller
Best doggone dog in the west
Old Yeller was a hunter
A rearin’, tearin’ hunter
In any chase he knew just how to run
And when he hunted trouble
He always found it double
And that’s when Old Yeller had fun
Here Yeller
Come back, Yeller
Best doggone dog in the west
Old Yeller was a fighter
A rootin’, tootin’ fighter
In any scrap he knew just what to do
A rough and ready fellow
Although his coat was yellow
His bold Texas heart was true blue
Here Yeller
Come back, Yeller
Best doggone dog in the west
Here Yeller
Come back, Yeller
Best doggone dog in the west
Best doggone dog in the west
If becoming a REaltard means I get to see candy-crapping unicorns, I’m in.
Rob
IIf becoming a REaltard means I get to see candy-crapping unicorns, I’m in.
I hope, hope, hope the HBB t-shirts we’re getting at the Con will have CCUs on them!
Fingers crossed.
The only thing nice about this idea was they wanted to apply it across the board, not just to people who make “too much money.” (Remember the meathead tax, proposed by Rob Reiner?) I agree this, i hope gothicmingle..c0m also canm apply this….
“California median home prices are down 41.5 percent year over year. The state’s peak price was $594,530 in May 2007 and it fell to $281,100 in December 2008, which was a drop of 52.7 percent, according to CAR figures. The Los Angeles County median home price decline was 32.6 percent, to $475,000 in December 2007 to $320,000 in December 2008.”
“‘We’ve never seen a price decline in one year the likes of which we saw last year,’ he said. ‘Totally unprecedented. The worst year-over-year decline we saw ever.’”
This is truly excellent…let’s see more and more.
Dang Noz, hoz, and voz. It’s getting harder to keep you all straight
I’ll be happy when they stop saying “worst housing slum since the Great Depression”. Even in the Great Depression we did not see areas of the country with 40% drop in real price in a year.
I’ll be happy when they start using terms like “totally unprecendented” and “worst ever” in reference to the insane run-up in house prices *during* the damned bubble! I think I may have a long wait.
Well said, HARM!
Righto… the “housing crisis” started about 1998 and ended in 2007… that was the only housng crisis that I am aware of… I’d like to hear someone with power and influence in DC say exactly that… because, that is if fact the case… I’m not holding my breath however… we are currently correcting from the real crisis in housing and are not done yet..
I also hold little hope that we’ll learn the lesson to be learned in all of this, which is to keep housing in it’s bottle for ever more.. Congress and the Fed are doing their best to re-inflate the price bubble however… quite amazing and sad to me..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aFTmMT3DILl8&refer=home
One thing is certain: The long-term goals of altering how banks are managed and redesigning the U.S. regulatory structure are doomed unless changes are made to laws on political-campaign contributions. Lawmakers must stop the flow of money greasing the incestuous links that the financial-services industry has with Congress and the executive branch.
Finance companies — commercial and investment banks, insurers, investment-management companies, private-equity firms and hedge funds — have spent fortunes on lobbying efforts and campaign contributions, purchasing access, good will and clout.
The result has often been slack regulation and poor discipline to the detriment of the public, markets and, as has recently been shown, the institutions themselves. Look at how lawmakers barred the Commodity Futures Trading Commission from regulating derivatives.
$146 Million Gifts
Individuals and political-action committees representing securities and investment firms contributed $146 million to federal political campaigns in 2007 and 2008, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a Washington-based research group that tracks money flows in U.S. politics.
Insurance companies were good for $44 million over the same period; commercial banks kicked in $35 million; hedge-fund related donations totaled $17 million.
These numbers may not match Bernard Madoff’s alleged shenanigans, but the money isn’t chump change. It will get you 15 minutes over coffee with a senator, congressman or administration member, if not a five-course meal in a Washington restaurant.
Since the start of 2003, Citigroup Inc. has been the largest contributor to the war chests of Christopher Dodd and Richard Shelby, respectively, the chairman and ranking Republican of the Senate Banking Committee. Hedge fund SAC Capital Partners ranked No. 3 among Dodd’s biggest donors, followed by American International Group Inc. and Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc.
Top Donors
Seventeen of the top 20 donors were banks, insurers, hedge funds or an industrial company with a large finance unit.
Four of the five biggest contributors to the 2008 campaign of Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, are finance companies, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Ditto for Spencer Bachus, the committee’s ranking Republican. Employees and others associated with Goldman Sachs Group Inc. comprised the largest corporate-related donors to the Obama presidential campaign. JPMorgan Chase & Co. was the sixth-biggest and Citigroup was No. 7.
People associated with Merrill Lynch & Co., Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs and JPMorgan made up the top five donors to John McCain’s presidential bid.
These contributions aren’t charity. The donors expect favors in return. So far, they have received them. In the late 1990s, Citigroup’s financial muscle helped persuade Congress to undo almost seven decades of regulation that separated investment and commercial banking and that kept banks and insurance companies out of each other’s businesses.
colt