Bits Bucket For February 14, 2009
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Examining the home price boom and its effect on owners, lenders, regulators, realtors and the economy as a whole.
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Happy Valentines Day to Y’all
I went and got my honey a few dozen red and pink Roses with a Valentines Day card suggesting that we lie in bed and kiss all day. Later on today I will buy her some jewelry.
I enjoy giving flowers to my Girl friend – A LOT- Wink Wink !!!!
I got The Husband a pack of red grapes in a heart shaped container from out local Ralphs.
He likes red grapes and the shape of the container just proves to him that I love him
Happy Valentine’s Day!
Today is DH’s and my 10th anniversary!
I used to love getting flowers from my husband, but the kitties found out how delicious they are. So he is taking us out tonight for a nice steak dinner instead.
I used to love getting flowers from my husband, but the kitties found out how delicious they are.
Ah yes, I am intimately familiar with this problem.
Nothing says “I Heart You” like a pile of cat vomit on your favorite couch with the still recognizable remains of the flowers peeking out.
My wife agrees with me that Valentines day in its current construct is a commercial enterprise, so I don’t buy flowers on this day. I do buy her flower during the year spontaneously so she’s good with that.
We go out to dinner on Friday night every week. It is our date night. I think Pres. and Mrs. Obama stole that idea from me. I should have copyrighted it like FPSS and the candy crappin’ unicorn(tm). Anyway, I feel like if I’m not getting the job done the other 52 weeks out of the year, then one special week of commercially driven love just makes my wife a prostitute, and does nothing for our relationship.
(putting on asbestos coveralls)
I got my wife a 94c card from Wal*Mart. She was having a bad week and it cheered her up.
Later we will be having BBQ. We figured there would be less of a crowd on V-day than the trendy places.
I’m afraid we’re having a full-out V-Day. Wink-wink marital activities, Beni-hana later ( oh yes-steeeaaaak ), and a very nice ruby ring which I “helped” him find me. It was a distress sale bargain, though, so all is not lost. Our ten-year anniversary of when we met is coming up in 4 months, so this is pretty nice vigorish to commemorate that occasion.
Speaking of distress sales, the amounts of Lalique, Waterford, fancy-schmancy platinum custom rings, etc. turning up on ebay is shocking. I make a habit of putting in extremely low bids on fancier goods selling at 5 to 10 percent of their original cost, and once in awhile I score something ( thus the ruby ring ). The most excessive monument to bad taste I saw today was ebay item# 220361088985, at a dealer which I habitually make lowball bids on. What were they thinking when they ordered that monstrosity ? GIA appraised, man’s ring, platinum, with a 2 and a half ct yellow center stone, surrounded by natural pink and blue little diamonds, supposed value is $ 41,000, and I’m sure the previous owner paid at least $ 25,000 to have it custom fabricated. At the moment, it’s on big for about $3000, and will probably close out at $ 3600 - $ 4000. My speed runs more to $50 bid on a double-strand of 25″ saltwater pearls with a 14k emerald clasp. I’ll probably get them for not much more than that. At a store, they’d run easily $ 1200. What were people thinking when they laid all that money out ? Probably HELOC dollars.
If you ignore the fact that you are going into deep debt in order to buy complete cr@p, it’s quite easy to spend.
I collect vintage postcards, now heavily discounted on Ebay.
Cash rules.
Paypal still a hassle.
When we increase the love and intimacy in our lives, we also increase the health, joy, and meaning in our lives.
http://women.webmd.com/guide/love-survival
I understand. Paypal works okay for me. As far as the massive men’s ring goes, it’s hideous, the diamond is a poor yellow color, very muddy, it is indeed easy to spend the money when it isn’t “real”, and we decided not to go to Benihana’s - the weather is too bad. However, all other Valentine’s Day systems were go.
I got the privilege of taking my daughter to her boyfriend’s on V-Day while I sit at home. At least I got a cupcake and a kiss out of it.
Sounds like you have a daughter that loves you Blano.
Sure do, SanFran. “You’re the best dad in the whole world” is not an uncommon phrase in my house. Makes it all worth it.
‘Happy Valentine’s Day’ to yer all! Happy Happy Day Day!
I hope you all spend the day enjoying the presence of those you adore, wallowing in happy contentment which is periodically intermingled with sustained hours of vigorous *ahem * ‘activity’, of the sort you most enjoy and that your health can safely support.
I love Valentine’s Day. I don’t care if it’s commercialized, in my view any excuse for a party and/or a display of affection is just super alright with me. Besides, I love giving presents. I like getting them, too, but giving is funnest. I got my honey’s each some tasty presents, and Valentine cards I made myself. I must modestly claim that they are quite nifty cards. I used flower pictures I cut out of gardening magazines and some bendy gold metal strips I found, and in the card I wrote some thoughts about why they’s neat-o, and that I’m glad I met them.
And—this will please those of you who loftily scorn the commercialism—since I made the cards from recycled stuff, got the chocolate and red wine from the Grotlet and Trader Joe’s, it was, get this, about 17 bucks PER HONEY. Huh huh huh?! Thass right!
Okay, spill the beans, or wine and chocolate, who are your honey’s?
Fess up Oly. Who are these lucky recipients?
You rule on Valentine’s Day presents, Oly. If I could, I’d get you a piece of sparkly vintage jewelry to wear when you are kneeling in your altogether deep in the woods as you commune with the Spirit there. I’ve never forgotten your encouraging words, and they got me through a dark couple of months. I just imagined you kneeling in your pink altogether, doing what ever you needed to do with shells and bird feathers and such, praying to the Spirit on behalf of various HBB’ers, including us….:) Many thanks, and a very nice red, pink, and white V-Day to you. I love it too.
I know it is valentines day and all, but I still have to ask…
Why the fock is Madoff not in jail this very night???
What is wrong with this country?
test
In Japan’s Stagnant Decade, Cautionary Tales for America
The Japanese have been here before. They endured a “lost decade” of economic stagnation in the 1990s as their banks labored under crippling debt, and successive governments wasted trillions of yen on half-measures.
Only in 2003 did the Japanese government finally take the actions that helped lead to a recovery: forcing major banks to submit to merciless audits and declare bad debts; spending two trillion yen to effectively nationalize a major bank, wiping out its shareholders; and allowing weaker banks to fail.
More alarming? Some students of the Japanese debacle say they see a similar train wreck heading for the United States.
“I thought America had studied Japan’s failures,” said Hirofumi Gomi, a top official at Japan’s Financial Services Agency during the crisis. “Why is it making the same mistakes?”
The lesson from Japan in the 1990s was that they should have stepped up and nationalized the banks.
Instead, the Japanese first tried many of the same remedies that the Bush administration tried and the Obama administration is trying — ultra-low interest rates, fiscal stimulus and ineffective cash infusions, among other things. The Japanese even tried to tap private capital to buy some of the bad assets from banks, as Mr. Geithner proposed.
One reason Japan’s leaders were so ineffectual for so long was their fear of stoking public outrage. With each act of the bailout, anger grew, making politicians more reluctant to force real reform, which only delayed the day of reckoning and increased the ultimate price tag. Japanese taxpayers are estimated to have recouped less than half what it cost the government to bail out the banks.
So far, the Obama administration’s plan avoids the hardest decisions, like nationalizing banks, wiping out shareholders or allowing banks to collapse under the weight of their own bad debts. In the end, Japan had to do all those things.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/business/economy/13yen.html?_r=3&ref=business
Wonder if Mr. Geithner’s proposed “Stress test” of the banks will accomplish what the Japanese did.
“So far, the Obama administration’s plan avoids the hardest decisions, like nationalizing banks, wiping out shareholders or allowing banks to collapse under the weight of their own bad debts. In the end, Japan had to do all those things.”
It’s different here.
It’s funny how few of the talking heads on TV ever mention the benefits of bond ownership (senior claims, for example). Maybe it’s because bond commissions are small and the holding period tends to be long. If the “investment” shows are in the business of increasing business for retail brokers, it doesn’t behoove them to point out that almost NO stocks produce enough reliable cash flow to be worth today’s prices (never mind last year’s prices).
I have always been a bond fan even though I largely flap my mouth about the equity world.
And I love junk bonds at the bottom of every single recession.
Generally, how do you evaluate that a bond rated as junk is a good buy?
First stab: Attempt to estimate the liquidation value of net assets and calculate gain from the bond assuming there will be a liquidation within a year. If the liquidation yield is acceptable and the yield on the bond (which you will receive if the company stays in business) exceeds that yield then it might be a good investment.
That leaves a huge problem of determing real FMV of net assets but still. Also this sounds way too easy, seems like everyone would do it and bid up the bond.
GOVT STIMULUS
so here we go, trying to “prime the economic pump” with 800+ billion.
But isnt the pump broken? All the priming won’t help until the broken parts are fixed…. and that means replacement of the parts.
Simple but accurate.
Deflation—The Poem
Deflation’s become
The Fed’s new concern,
Prices are sinking
They say they discern.
But ‘bout this new thinking
I’m way out ahead,
In deflation’s cold realms
I‘ve long had to tread.
My whole life’s deflated
It’s lost its old puff,
What used to be easy
Has now gotten tough.
By a host of deep downturns
I have been beset,
The only thing rising
Is my credit debt.
My salary’s frozen
For hard cash I’m strapped,
The kid’s school tuition
My last savings sapped.
The pension I thought
Would make old age less weighty,
Has gone up in smoke
Now I’ll work ‘til I’m eighty.
Returns on my stocks
Range from awful to middling,
My bond dividends
Are so small they are piddling.
My home’s equity
Has been tapped and been spent,
Now instead of a mortgage
I wish I paid rent.
We need not debate it
I’ll come out and state it
My dreams have abated
To worry I’m mated
On thin ice I skated
And got what was fated
I’m crushed and deflated
And boy do I hate it.
By Michael Silverstein
LOL… great poem!
lol.. all too accurate
Very good, FB wants a do over. And chillingly accurate. I was rereading some of the portions of a Jim Rogers Reuters article from April 2007 which have proven to be chillingly prescient. And I quote:
“Rogers said he is also betting against some of the big investment banks which have been making headlines with multimillion dollar pay packages for top executives.
“That is one of areas where there are excesses,” Rogers said, noting “Even though hedge funds and mutual funds aren’t doing so well, people are making gigantic amounts of money.”
“”There will be many disasters coming both from incompetence and dishonesty,” Rogers said adding “Right now the best way to make money is in the private equity and hedge fund industries and some people will be wiped out. It is all going to come to a bad end,” he forecast.”
All too accurate when considered against the Madoff scandal less than two years later.
Days of Wine and Roses Are Over This Valentine’s
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/14/us/14valentine.html?ref=us
Long-stemmed roses are being replaced by homemade cards. Theater tickets are being replaced by Netflix. Personal jewelry is being replaced by personal poems.
And even some preparing to propose on Saturday are seeking a bargain approach: on Yahoo, searches for “cheap engagement rings” are “off the charts” compared with a year ago, according to Vera Chan, a trend analyst for the company. Other searches that are up over last year include “cheap lingerie,” “free Valentine’s Day cards” and “homemade Valentine’s Day gifts.”
Whatever happened to the ol’-fashioned kiss, some chocolate, and lots and lots of the ol’ slap-n-tickle?
Lawd, roses. What good do those do?
I think the ladies really enjoy flowers on Valentine’s Day. Being a gardener, I even made a bouquet for my past GF, and served it up in a silver pitcher I found at the thrift shop. I’ve never been married, so I’m not sure if that changes things, but I wouldn’t want to decide to not give flowers because “everybody else was giving them”. Better to err on the side of caution, IMO. I’ve never heard of a woman being upset by such a gift.
Aw grizzly, you know the way to a girl’s heart.
I couldn’t think of anything nicer than a bouquet of flowers someone had grown personally.
Well, to be honest, I didn’t grow all of them since mid February isn’t the best time for gardens. But I did use some Hellebore’s and various other flowers and foliage from my garden. I actually used to have something blooming every month, though November was kind of difficult.
‘Being a gardener, I even made a bouquet for my past GF, and served it up in a silver pitcher I found at the thrift shop.’
Even a silver pitcher you found at the thrift shop?!
Well, I know I’M ready to be in love.
Seriously, grizzley, well done.
“Well, I know I’M ready to be in love.”
I’m sure it’s no short list of men who’d oblige you.
Grizzly,
What was your previous blogger name?
Grizzly will neeeeever tell.
I’m leaning towards Bantering. Am I close?
I can’t think of anything nicer than home grown flowers or fruit and vegs grown with love.
Gosh. You aren’t married? Hmm, got lots of single sharp gf’s..
Matchmaking 101.
where do you live that you can grow all but Nov.
Sorry, I missed your question earlier. My garden was near the Puget Sound in WA- USDA zone 8.
If roses make her wanna do the slap-n-tickle, then they’re delivered to the U.S. Male, and worth every “scent”. Besides, you can get some deals from desperate florists, this year.
Florist roses have no scent.
That’s my main objection to them. They’re not honest, or something.
Kind of funny how the feast day of an early Christian martyr is conmemorated with lust.
And what exactly is wrong with lust?
Lust a lot I say; lust all day long!
Roses = rubies = lingerie = Walmart cards = silver pitchers filled with homegrown flowers = chocolate = lust. Good for the economy. Good for the soul.
‘Lust a lot I say; lust all day long!’
Well…okay. If you say so. Before you said so, I was planning on spending the day organizing my scrapbooking supplies* and playing hymns on the piano.**
But now, since you’re so bossy, I suppose I have no choice.
*Oh, wait. I don’t HAVE any scrapbooking supplies.
**Oh. And I don’t have a piano either, come to think of it.
I mean lust in all its generalized gaudy glory - you can lust after mushrooms and chocolate and books and music and art (*) too.
Go on then, it’s good for you!
(*) substitute personal choices here.
‘I mean lust in all its generalized gaudy glory - you can lust after mushrooms and chocolate and books and music and art (*) too.’
That’s all very well, but I ain’t getting out the wine and candles and prancing around in ankle-endangering high-heels all afternoon in order to entice my books. Even if I really truly do like my books.
You oughtta be more specific in your distinctions.
Fine. Be that way.
*flounces out of there in non-heels*
And what exactly is wrong with lust?
In my experience lust is selfish.
I just recalled an old episode of Taxi, where Louie dePalma (played so well by Danny deVito) tells Latka that lust is better than love.
In a sense, you are right, but if you lust after the one who is your honey, then, lust is goooood.
SD, the tracks have been sent.
What do guys think of the new restrictions on pay for companies receiving tarp funds? Companies receiving tarp before and after the stimulus enactment, must pay all employees bonuses no more than 1/3 of salary.
WSJ: Bankers Face Strict New Pay Cap
Doesn’t matter. It’s just for the top 25 people or so.
What about the rest of the crew?
All employees. This was injected into the stimulus at the last hour by Dodd. Only exception is if the company and employee had a prior contract. A possible workaround is to increase salary. Looking for the exact language, however.
“In contrast to executive-pay rules announced recently by the White House, those in the stimulus bill … doesn’t apply just to top executives but could reach into the ranks of highly paid traders and department heads. The rules apply to any company that has received aid under the bailout program since it began in October.”
I sit corrected!
Wonder where that came from. And strange coming from Dodd. What am I missing here?
Yes, coming from Dodd, it makes me suspicious. Hmmmm…
Yeah, does it mean that the number 26 man will make more money than anyone else working at the bailed-out bank?
Just because we had a flakey president why does it seem like the new one wants to punish everybody for his mistakes? I mean, leave me alone and don’t mess with my freedoms.
He’s not punishing everyone, just those who directly take OUR money. If this makes more banks forgo the funds and maybe some who have received funds work like hell to pay us back sooner, then it is a positive development.
I understand it’s our old friend Chris Dodd who inserted that provision.
Banks are the source of the government money stream, but everyone downstream also uses and benefits from that govt money. Banks are not the only entities that benefit.
The banks couldn’t lend and therefore your employer wouldn’t be able to borrow if the govt hadn’t stepped in. If your employer screws up and somehow wastes that money, it costs taxpayers money just as surely as if a bank wasted it.
Should your employer be allowed to waste govt money by holding lavish Valentine’s Day parties? or by paying employees (you) “too much”?
If you get paid more than necessary… say.. minimum wage.. I think you should be penalized with a higher income tax.. thus returning the money to the taxpayers. Or just fix all employee wages at some maximum per hour, and keep ithings simple.
Limiting banker executive pay is pointless if the money is allowed to leak away somewhere further down the road…
“Limiting banker executive pay is pointless if the money is allowed to leak away somewhere further down the road…”
In principle I’m with you, but OTOH, when I watched the CEO’s testifying the other day, and some Congo asked each one to divulge his salary and bonus for 2007 (?), I couldn’t help reacting to the typical answer ($1 mil in salary, $20 mil in stock) — no wonder they manage for the next 3-6 months’ results and don’t give a zheet what happens further down the road.
az_lender .. I agree.. Pay and/or bonuses based on short term achievements isn’t the best way to go about it.. but govt intrusions into private enterprise like wage fixing has to be among the very worst of ways.
Aside from being hypocrites, Congress putting their targets on public display for the sake of rousing the mob’s anger against the wealthy is awfully reminiscient of methods used during the rise of certain dictators.
“…they came first for the ______ And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a _______;..”
Now, I’m not suggesting our govt can’t be trusted, or that they don’t know their limits, or that they are not here to help us… heaven forbid.
Gov is the only way. Individual share holders have little say in these pay packages. Gov should strip the cap gains benefits that CEO’s and Hedge Fund managers get unless they structure their pay package to incentivise long term growth. ie they get stock each month that must be sold in exactly 5 years. No more timing the market for CEO’s ie crashing the company before options and hyping it before they sell said options.
“Just because we had a flakey president why does it seem like the new one wants to punish everybody for his mistakes? I mean, leave me alone and don’t mess with my freedoms.”
LMAO…. care to define ‘your’ freedoms?
I share this state of california with 37 million other people, how many in NH?
Our tax is going to 12.2% how high is NH?
I can’t afford a trailer in california and gov wants more tax!
why can’t we have affordable living quarters and doctor visits? Because it’s california.
So ouro what does that have to do with our president? This is more about the governor and legislature of CA.
yeah true. but I take offense that washington wants to rescue homeowners and not pathetic stock investors. Quite frankly, I have never recovered from the dot com losses. How much more should I lose before pelosi is satisfied?
I have never recovered from the dot com losses.
And whose fault is that?
If you play with bubbles, expect to get burnt!
I am a stupid investor, obviously.
I am too scared to sell and too scared to buy.
Ouro,
You are a wiser investor now and realize that it isn’t a good time to buy. Its time to save.
Everybody gets burned investing. In this kind of bear market, the one that starter with the dot.com blow up. You have to be lucky rather than good.
Things are getting pretty spooky out there. Lots of deflationary wildcards. See a lot of tech companies laying off and sitting on piles of cash.
Biggest wild card is seeing how much malinvestment China makes and how bad of a bunch of deals they want to make on pumping money back into the US. Might as well enjoy the cheap goods and the eventual defaults while you can. That or save up for when inflation kicks back in.
The overall monetary environment is deflationary. Eventually it will become inflationary. You have to look for that. Hard to sort out when the manipulation is so high. Guess we have to look at treasuries and debt prices as best indicators. Sharp upturns. I have to get pro advice on this.
James
DYODD
Do Your Own Due Diligence
I know I’ve been criticized for being harsh, but I’m of the opinion that the truth is kinder than yet another lie. WS gets rich by draining small investors dry, it’s all a con. Trade according to what you hear on the MSM and you will be broke. When they tell you to hang on, it’s time (or past time) to SELL. When it’s time to buy, they quietly snarf up the equities, then “talk their book” a few months later, selling while they urge you to buy. Sometimes their own buying is enough to run a price up, then they unload shares to GFs. If the GFs get really excited and run the price higher, they short sell (even better, short sell naked) to eager GFs, then release “bad news” and cover their shorts in the panic that follows. SEC was created to stop this stuff but they’ve been toothless for 15 years.
To successfully do this, you are paid to anticipate other people’s anticipations.
A little glib but accurate nevertheless.
By the time it’s on the news, it’s too late.
..If you play with bubbles, expect to get burnt!
Have a little faith. The people running the kitchen insist that all of us, players or not, will be cooked to perfection.
ouro verde.. if it’s any consolation just about everyone is too scared to buy or sell. There’s nothing to do but be patient; keep track of developments. The time to act will come and few will see it. God willing, I’ll one of them.
“When it’s time to buy, they quietly snarf up the equities, then “talk their book” a few months later, selling while they urge you to buy. Sometimes their own buying is enough to run a price up, then they unload shares to GFs. If the GFs get really excited and run the price higher, they short sell (even better, short sell naked) to eager GFs, then release “bad news” and cover their shorts in the panic that follows.”
This is precisely why I do not partake in the Wall St. casino. It’s a rigged scam.
Restrictions on those accepting government funds is NOT taking away freedoms. It is controlling how tax payer money is used.
I am speaking in general terms. Everytime obama talks to his public I feel Iike he is mad at me for not living in poverty or not having ten kids. I feel like I have been a very bad person for hoarding cash and not donating to the democrat party.
Otherwise legalize pot and prostitution and make money on the fees. Save the small investor and let savers hold their head high.
Otherwise legalize pot and prostitution ??
Then what will all the police, DA’s and Prison guards do ??
Hm, I don’t get that impression from him. But those WS guys do make me feel like an a-hole for not joining other phys majors to be a quant and make big bucks for running regressions on irrelevant data, or scamming my way through the 1990’s armed with a little computer skills.
Gee, I’m working a sub-$30K/yr job–must be a major a-hole! Heck, even Dave Ramsey chews out people making $25K/yr–for making $25K per year. “jobs americans won’t do” b/c you’re made to feel like an obnoxious whiner a-hole for doing them. how dare you! you don’t deserve to have savings, health care and certainly not a house! Join the Ownership Society or prepare to be trampled.
I guess you’re not part of his public? My guess is, he’ll change that ‘tude real quick. I’ll give him time.
You have a physics degree and make $25K a year?
Not unusual in Florida.
You have a physics degree and make $25K a year?
What’s your point? I never finished my degree and make $120K a year slinging code in hi-tech. A degree (or lack thereof) is meaningless. It isn’t a guage of intelligence and it isn’t a precursor to financial success (or failure). There are plenty of MBA’s out there today who are sucking wind because they can’t find jobs while sitting on $1000’s of school loans.
I have family that have their BS, MBA, CPA, and decades of experience in banking/finance. They earn in excess of $200K/yr and live in a million dollar waterfront property (bought over 15 years ago). These very bright, wealthy people didn’t see the stock crash coming until I told them to move everything they had out of stocks in Aug ‘07. My advice saved them almost a million. I don’t have a degree, have a fraction of their “net worth” and live with my family of 4 in a 2-bedroom apartment in my 3-decker. If you knew nothing else about me, who would you say is better prepared for what’s coming? Who was “living up to their potential”?
Not a Gator is smart and observant enough to be here on this blog. The career choices he’s made and what he earns are meaningless. Most people I know earning top dollars are over-educated, lacking in common sense, and have completely bought into mainstream media/society… i.e. they are sheep heading for slaughter. I don’t see that with most who post here, and certainly not Not a Gator.
Sure, why not? There are no jobs in physics unless you want to work for the defense industry. Just talked to some really depressing undergrads, things have not changed/are actually worse.
My sister has a phys degree and works in bio labs. She makes more than me but OTOH she has to deal with all of THAT bs. I didn’t feel like becoming a lab rat–so I am giving up money?–but I’m quite happy about that choice.
My income at the end of the year is more than $25K … why do you think I talk about investments like a total bore?
And Palmy is right–this is a low wage state. Even lawyers don’t make that much. When I moved here cost of living was quite low so I was clearing more than I ever had before.
Anyway, I enjoy working in a profession that helps people, even if it means working with the incompetents and fools who gravitate towards goobermint jobs and having to shut up and kiss asses of people who know less about this industry than I do, despite having worked in it twice as long!
You could write a correct explanation of Bernoulli’s principle for the National Air & Space Museum! (see DC thread below)
Jeebus, I just about lost it completely when I read the wrong explanation. In a museum devoted to aircrafts no less!
Elsewhere in the museum they get it right so it’s clearly a case of the @ss not knowing what the nose is doing.
Northeastener
2009-02-14 11:44:31
Whoa, slow down there. Just saying someone with a degree in physics - if he/she wanted - could probably land a job paying at least 2X that right out of college.
Geez.
I agree with the above posts that income doesn’t equal intelligence doesn’t equal having a degree. In a perfect world, everyone would have a degree or certificate of some kind of learning, work in high-paying jobs commensurate with their knowledge, and be totally satisfied. As it is, many people with advanced degrees which are held as desirable are under-employed, and intelligent investors such as not a gator do okay for themselves. Some, like noreaster, have the skills and drive to rise above not having finished a degree and are to be congratulated. I’m happy for anyone making an honest living and being able to figure out how to have a roof over their head, have some kind of stable relationship if tney want one, and not be a substance abuser. I fall in the middle. I’m an unintelligent investor and would lose everything if I tried to short stocks, but I’m an intelligent saver and have made enough mistakes with my 401k problems in the dot.com crash, a terrible investment in a veterinary clinic which eventually with my first husband 24 years ago, and one big house mistake that I never want to repeat at that same time, to know my limitations. We live comfortably but are surprisingly frugal. We’ll go on nice vacations but reuse plastic bags and drive old cars, and wear cheap clothing that we keep in good repair. We’re also one of the few couples I know that has not lost a penny in our investments in the current downturn, with the exception of the real estate we had from years ago, of course, and we sold two of those at good prices in 2003 and 2004. The profits were banked except with our Disney World vacation club, which we bought for cash. We are dull but solvent. My husband is now retired with income from S.S. and a pension, and I make a whopping $ 35K a year, with another $ 5K in overtime. I have positioned myself to have paid-for lifetime health insurance when I retire. He already has lifetime Blue Cross thru the state. We are the epitome of “use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without.” But we still manage to have a great deal of fun and a happy life together, and we don’t have to worry constantly about how to make our bills. Tomorrow is “smitches and dabs” day, where we go thru the fridge and use up the leftovers in a really weird meal which keeps us from wasting anything from the week’s cooking. Very cheap meal
I don’t think anyone should be denigrated for the amount of money they’re pulling down. It’s a matter of luck, choice, and circumstances sometimes.
I blew some chances early on to make a higher wage, but I probably would have immediately gotten on the car/house/lifestyle debt treadmill, so it’s all good. Older and wiser now. More physically fit, too, and in this world we live in now, your health really is your wealth. Type II diabetes is muy expensivo.
I also had some very good offers in programming. I have the skills/head for it. Unfortunately, I discovered that I really, REALLY hated programming in a real world situation. I just couldn’t deal with constantly engineering around other people’s badly constructed legacy code. (Wow, blood pressure rising just thinking about it.)
Otherwise legalize pot and prostitution ??
Then what will all the police, DA’s and Prison guards do ??
Uhh arrest and imprison all the people wacked out on drugs. Which I support completely. Legalize drugs, give an extra penalty to anyone who commits a crime on said drugs.
Sorry Manny, I didn’t mean to come off so harsh. It’s a touchy subject because I constantly get harassed by family/friends about not having finished my degree.
I think it’s stupid. The government should just roll these guys up in an orderly way — let them fail — and be done with it. I’m reading another one where Morgan and Citi are struggling to keep employees in their new joint venture, so they are offering retention bonuses.
WSJ: Morgan Stanley, Citigroup to Give Brokers Big Retention Fees
I wish they would stop handing so much TARP money to Megabank, Inc and instead send in some farmers armed with tar and feathers to see whether the situation can be improved.
PB,
OT here, but wanted your input.
Beau’s daughter-26+ newly married, “has the world by the tail/know it all” put offer on condo in Rancho Bernardo-short sale. was 480k now 332k, made full price offer, VA loan and 0% down.
Very excited, says it is the bottom in RB.
I am wondering if I should Try to interfere to save her from herself or as ‘we’ all seem to be doing, just shut our yaps and watch knifecatcher.
Hard for beau and I to listen as he is in comml re = is savvy and listens and reads hbb like me.
desertdweller,
I would let your beau handle this one. Beau’s daughter may not appreciate hearing from you. Just my one cent worth (would be two cents, however deflation)
“Very excited, says it is the bottom in RB.”
- On what evidence? Has the CA recession ended already, when unemployment just hit 9.3% in December, and CA state employees are furloughed to cut 10 pct of their pay, and the SD county and SD city pensions have taken multi-billion dollar hits, and the SD county home building industry is basically semi-permanent shut-down mode until the economic picture improves?
- Have prices stopped falling? Last I checked (well just now, actually), Radar Logic price per square foot data showed prices were still falling in San Diego County as recently as 12-12-08, off from their peak level of $358 per square foot to a level below $200 per square foot (of course I know it is different in Rancho Bernardo…):
Transaction Date: December 12, 2008
Publication Date: February 13, 2009
MSA1 MSA Code 1-Day*2 7-Day3 28-Day3
San Diego, CA SD $191.95 $198.61 $197.51
- You will know it is the bottom when people stop excitedly claiming a bottom has been reached and start saying real estate is the worst possible investment. Give it a few more years, IMHO…
P.S. I talked my sister into breaking a home purchase contract a couple of years ago, but her husband (a GM assembly line worker who apparently is also a latent real estate investing genius) drove a hard bargain and insisted they go ahead an sink all their savings into a falling knife RE investment. Today (two years later) they still own two homes, one of which they have to sell some day in order to tally up the damage to their hard earned savings.
GOOD LUCK!
The best “salary cap” would be to let them fail (while protecting insured depositors). A cheaper, fairer solution.
And, eventually, that will be the outcome anyway. We’ll discover we just flushed a couple trillion down the toilet.
“And, eventually, that will be the outcome anyway.”
Only after top management skims ungodly sums of TARP money into their personal investment portfolios.
The best “salary cap” would be to let them fail (while protecting insured depositors). A cheaper, fairer solution.
——————-
Exactly right, reuven.
Quite frankly, other than insured depositors, why in the world are we trying to “save” these same financial institutions that caused all our problems in the first place?
How about putting a cap on what the douchebags on Capital Hill make. Talk about a bunch of overpaid jackholes. Is this really the best we can do, to keep electing the cream of the crap?
no kidding. Don’t they get full salary and benefits for life and vote to increase their pay every time they possibly can. How about some pay cuts to show everybody how its done.
Actually there’s now a limit on Congress voting itself a pay raise: the XXVII Amendment.
“No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.”
It’s all good–most incumbents get reelected.
I am for restricting pay for any corporate representative receiving TARP funds. Their pay should be limited to $75,000 in fact. Not capped at $500,000. This is taxpayer money after all. They want taxpayer money then the gotta play by the rules and respect taxpayers.
Additionally, it would make any other corporation think again before asking for taxpayer money.
Additionally, it would make any other corporation think again before asking for taxpayer money.
Apparently they’re already thinking twice — didn’t someone post a link yesterday or the day before about executives balking at TARP funds because of the compensation provisions?
Me, I think executive compensation under TARP should be a fixed multiple of the average non-exec’s salary; e.g., the CEO can make no more than 10x the salary of his employees.
At any rate, I think failing corporate entities should face restrictions if they’re taking our money. If they don’t like it, let them sink or swim on their own.
Bonuses will be 50% of the salary, so that the overall compensation is limited. What about if the CEOs raise their salaries accordingly, and the end result is the same as before just with different ratio between bonuses and salaries? Is there a safeguard against that? If not, what’s the use of the limit on the bonuses?
Disregard the above – I forgot about the $500,000 salary cap.
hmm.. what do I think of restrictions on pay for companies that get govt money.
I’ll answer that with a question: Would any but a blind and stupid flock of sheep select the wolf to guard over it, and then rejoice in the decision?
So it sounds like the ‘plan’ that Barry will outline sometime in the not to distant future, will focus on lowering monthly mortgage payments, not principle amounts. How do you do that without increasing the length of the mortgage? Oh I know how about 100 year mortgages, or just add it up to the backside of the 30 year. No matter, this mortgage meddeling will end in failure with a whole lot of dissapointed dimwits.
Summers Says Obama Mortgage Plan to Focus on Lowering Payments
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By Rich Miller and Matthew Benjamin
Feb. 14 (Bloomberg) — The White House is willing to spend more than the $50 billion already pledged to stem home foreclosures and intends to focus its efforts on reducing monthly mortgage payments, rather than principal, said Lawrence Summers, the president’s top economic adviser.
“We’re prepared to do what is necessary,” Summers said in an interview on Bloomberg Television’s “Political Capital with Al Hunt” yesterday. “Going directly at the problem means addressing affordability by addressing payments.”
Mounting foreclosures have hammered an already weakened housing market, helping to drive the economy deeper into recession. Economists surveyed by Bloomberg News forecast that gross domestic product will contract 2 percent this year, its biggest decline since 1946.
President Barack Obama will outline his proposal to deal with the housing crisis next week. The announcement will come after lawmakers voted on Obama’s $787 billion fiscal stimulus that’s aimed at restarting growth and providing for 3.5 million jobs.
Summers, who is director of the White House’s National Economic Council, said the economy will be in for a rough time for a while and that unemployment will continue to rise, even with the stimulus package.
“I fear the economy will probably be showing decline and jobs will probably be being lost for some time going forward,” Summers said. He added that the stimulus will probably prevent the unemployment rate from going above 10 percent, after it reached 7.6 percent in January.
I think this plan may work quite well: The Democrats are going to be swimming in campaign contributions from the REIC (as if they were not already).
I think this plan may work quite well: The Democrats are going to be swimming in campaign contributions from the REIC (as if they were not already).
Except that once their loan is reset (ie now it’s a 40yr loan) they still will not be able to afford to sell the house, thus they can’t ever move, this will not help the REIC.
More ppl to just walk away. Why would anyone want to pay on $400k mtg for 100 years when the same house is going for $125k?
People walking away will stimulate economy as their discretionary spending kicks up.
Barry revealed as a genius!
Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac revealed as successful in achieving their affordable housing mission…
This is about pulling the wool over the eyes of the same unsophisticated rubes who bought into the mania to begin with. Anyone with a smidgen of common sense would walk away from such an albatross.
Give everyone an negative amortization loan. Wow, this is some change….
I don’t know. This might work if the monthly payments are reduced to what rent levels are. If you are underwater, you have already lost your equity anyway. Why not continue to live in the house for what you would be paying in rent?
Rents are in flux - it’s a moving target. It’s almost as if they’d no only have to give them a lower payment - but a steadily declining one as well.
Because most people live currently in houses that they cannot afford even to rent. At least most people that I know. They just have too much house for their income, no matter whether they pay mortgage or rent.
“This might work if the monthly payments are reduced to what rent levels are….Why not continue to live in the house for what you would be paying in rent?”
Because when you rent, you don’t have to pay for taxes, maintenance and insurance in addition to your rent payment. These poor suckers will pay way more than renters will, for no more benefit (equity’s non-existent in these cases).
But, I think the sheeple will go along anyway, just for the “pride of ownership” bragging rights. As if.
This is why our housing budget is based on PITI, not mortgage payment. (We live in CA–yeah, not the greatest, but at least it’s not SoCal–so our property tax is easy to calculate.) If you can’t get your broker to calculate those numbers for you, you need a new broker.
Also you should be willing to walk if it turns out they lied.
Allow me to summarize Mom’s situation again. Paid 265K for a 2 bdrm house using interest only Pay option ARM plus a second. After adjustments, the monthly pmt including taxes, HOA, and insurance jumped from around 1,600 to 3K. She could not short sell the home for 135K. It’s probably worth even less now.
These things just keep people on the debt-mill a little longer — running to stand still — until all their cash and emotional resources are spent. It’s a terrible thing to watch, firsthand. Mom now rents a larger home in the same area for 1,300 a month. Despite filing BK, she is very content, relieved in fact.
“just keep people on the debt-mill a little longer”
Yes, I think that’s exactly the idea. Hope that a few more banks may stay afloat if the FB’s are made to pay SOMETHING a little longer, rather than NOTHING.
I look at this from my point of view as a lender — I try to get them to pay fast enough to keep “above water,” but no faster. Of course if you are dealing with ppl who are already under water, you have to find a way to make them think they can escape by continuing to pay.
All a big hoax, just like Student Loans.
Feb. 14 (Bloomberg) — Donald Trump resigned from the board of debt-laden Trump Entertainment Resorts Inc. as bondholders weighed forcing the casino company he founded into involuntary bankruptcy next week.
“I have nothing to do with it. I’m not in it, I’m not on the board,” Trump, who was chairman, said in a telephone interview yesterday. He said he had “no idea” whether there will be a bankruptcy filing.
Oh surely the Donald will make it out of this i mean he knows real estate, i mean he does all those seminars on how to make it rich with real estate.
I started a response to this much earlier; The Donald’s ouster is front page news in The Atlantic City Press. He really trashes his properties’ team and the bondholders’ committee in the article. Typical. Similar to his part of the back-and-forth with Rosie O’Donnell, whom I also despise. The CEO of The Donald’s properties said only nice things about him.
One thing that really irks me about Trump is the warped notion of what constitutes “class’ that he and his admirers somehow managed to implant in the minds of the sheeple. If there is one thing The Donald lacks big time, it is “class.” Yet, you can’t spit in Atlantic City without hitting someone who aspires to be The Donald– or, at least, to look, party and talk like him. The sheeple really are, well, sheep. The only things for which I am grateful to The Donald are the teams that ran his Marina and Taj Mahal Casinos and, over the years, brought in all the better– and, yes, even some of the poorer– classic rock acts. Happy Valentine’s Day, everyone.
Happy Valentine’s Day. Tried to go into work for optional overtime but too much snow/too slippery at stop signs/slid right thru one at 30 mph, so turned around and came home. I can go in tomorrow if I like. There is a realtor in Detroit ( City of ), offering “two houses for the price of one ! ” in his ads for run-down rentals for sale.
In further exciting foreclosure news, a lender is finally suing our county sheriff for refusing to hold sheriff sales, depriving lenders of their property rights, including us with the office condo foreclosure. http://www.freep.com/article/20090214/NEWS01/902140339
I thought the comment that went with it pretty much summed it up:
DamonD wrote:
“Evans said last week that he believes the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program, approved by Congress last fall, trumps state law and preempts him from selling foreclosed homes.
“I remain confident that there are sufficient legal grounds under the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program to continue the moratorium in Wayne County,” Evans said. “If Towne Mortgage insists on pushing forward with their lawsuit, rather than waiting even a few days to learn the details of the federal program, we are confident we will prevail.” ”
Yeah, we allow the Sheriff to interpret the law, and enforce it as he sees fit, with no review. Yeah, I KNOW he will make a great Mayor of Detroit. Laws do not apply to him if he doesn’t think so.
What the heck is in the air in Detroit? What is in the water? Laws don’t apply to elected officials?
When are we going to take the government back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
C’mon, laws haven’t applied to our elected federal officials in decades.
..When are we going to take the government back..
We’ve just begun another phase of “give the government whatever it wants” so even if thngs evolve quickly it’ll be a while.. can you hang in there ’til 2050 or so?
Silverback, I didn’t realize you were in the Detroit area (or I forgot). Where you at??
Farmington Hills (retirement house), Westland (present residence ), Ann Arbor (employment ). Someday, hope to be,
Arizona (retired ).
U.S. mortgage rescue plan cheers some, angers others…
CINCINNATI (Reuters) - News that U.S. President Barack Obama is working on a plan to rescue homeowners from problem mortgages before they even miss a payment has pleased some Americans and angered others.
“This is fantastic,” said Rick Williams, who has watched thousands of heartbroken homeowners struggle and fail to pay ballooning mortgages over the last few years as president of the nonprofit Home Ownership Center of Greater Cincinnati.
“It is very forward-thinking,” said Williams. “Until now lenders are saying, ‘We can’t help you until you’re three months delinquent.’ And it’s crazy. It’s encouraging people to just get delinquent.”
But Americans who chose moderate, conservative mortgages and carefully budgeted to meet all their payments are bitter that the government seems ready, yet again, to bail out people who took on more debt than they could afford.
“I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, and I’ll end up paying for them. I’m a Christian, and I’m a compassionate person, but I do believe people should learn to face the consequences,” said Tom Jones, 41, a Cincinnati catering director who doesn’t need help with his mortgage.
“I pay my bills on time, I pay my mortgage on time, and I’ll end up paying for them. I’m a Christian, and I’m a compassionate person, but I do believe people should learn to face the consequences,” said Tom Jones, 41, a Cincinnati catering director who doesn’t need help with his mortgage.
Tom seems like he doesn`t understand trickle up economics.
Tom doesn’t yet get that, by living within his means, he is just another a-hole who should get used to subsidizing those visionary, philanthropic, beautiful, shining exemplars of humanity who Dared To Be Rich.
The Nati: Quite moderate and “conservative.”
I RealtyTraced the neighborhood I grew up in. Few defaults, not like the pepper-shaded NOD and REO map of current zip.
“I’m a christian”???
WTFudge does that have to do with anything?
I was swindled out of 25k in 90s by a “christian”. Meth/Coke whore is big in mega church down the street..what does “christian” have to do with anything, cause they sure aren’t trying to behave the way the book is written. Sheezelouise.
Dude…Just the word Christian and boom, you lefties just lose it. Let the man speak, perhaps he does live the way the book is written. You don’t know him. There is room for all faiths in this world if everyone would just chill.
But his use of the term implies that being a Christian makes him special.
It’s the whole concept that just because one says I’m a christian people should be inclined to think that they are good.
Plenty of crooks,criminals, child molesters ect who sing that song.
The only badge that is worth something is ones history.
“For now, homeowners are stuck,” says McBride. “I think one thing that would be nice to see, is a government program designed to facilitate refinancing for people that have been current on their loans for at least two years.”
Quote from a CNBC article about falling house prices.
What amendment number guarantees someone the right to refinance. This guy is bickering that he can not get a refi but his rate is 6.3. Banks and mortgage brokers have convinced people that a lower interest rate is an immediate need to refi.
25 percent of all homes in San Diego County are underwater on their mortgages, and recent comparable sale prices are off peak by 45 percent. The next two years should make this warmup act pale in comparison, especially in the supposedly-immune upscale part of town, as
the Alt-A and prime ARM reset tsunami crest is headed in towards ocean view property.
More than 25% of homes in county worth less than mortgage balance
New data comparisons track severity of hosuing (SIC)bust
By Roger Showley
Union-Tribune Staff Writer
2:00 a.m. February 14, 2009
Online: For a list by neighborhood of homes that sold at a loss and the percentage of homes now worth less than their mortgages, go to uniontrib.com/more/underwater
Just how far has San Diego’s housing market fallen from the boom?
A new analysis from MDA DataQuick shows that more than a quarter of all homes in the county are worth less than the owners owe on their mortgages. And nearly two-thirds of those who sold last year settled for less than previous owners had received.
The study, performed at the request of The San Diego Union-Tribune, found that 14,595 properties sold at a loss during 2008, with a median decline of $160,000 or 45.2 percent of the previous price.
Distressed sales were most prevalent in inland areas that have been hit hard by foreclosures. Of 82 ZIP codes analyzed, 55 saw a majority of homes sold at a loss last year.
All South Bay and East County communities saw a majority of home sales at a loss, as did central San Diego neighborhoods including downtown, City Heights, Normal Heights-Kensington, Serra Mesa, Clairemont and Allied Gardens-Del Cerro.
The highest-priced neighborhoods thus far have been spared big losses because most owners still retain equity in their homes and can avoid foreclosure. The smallest percentages sold at a loss occurred in Coronado, 9.1 percent; followed by Rancho Santa Fe, 12.8 percent; and Del Mar, 14.3 percent.
But those areas are not immune. One of the biggest dollar losses was on a 5,126-square-foot Rancho Santa Fe home, bought for $2.9 million in August 2006, allowed to go to foreclosure and then resold in October for $1.92 million.
From the linked report on the percent of homes underwater:
“Rancho Bernardo W 92127 13.5%”
As usual, I am very suspicious of DataQuack’s methodology. The 13.5% number looks implausibly small for the zip code which contains Foreclosure Ranch, Santaluz, and other “upscale” McMansion tract home developments which spontaneously materialized out of the scrub country to the west of Black Mountain over the past ten years. Given the
large percentage of homes in 92127 constructed in the past decade, the whopping price tag on these homes when they were new and the huge amount by which prices have fallen, 13.5% does not seem quite high enough.
Thanks PB. I posted to you way way above.
This answers my query, sort of.
I think we are just going to let his daughter learn her life lessons the hard way.
Funny how this article comes out today, just 1 wk after she /h put full price offer in on short sale in Rancho Bernardo condo.
Wonder if she gets ‘it’ about HOA and when others don’t pay, your hoa goes up.
I wonder if that 25% figure also took into account HELOCs?
And when was the study performed? That is, at what point in time were 25% of mortgages underwater? I have heard that, in general, CA home prices (actual sale prices) have declined 30% in the past 90 days, which makes sense, given the massive layoffs in past three or four months.
The thing that makes this crisis so scary is that the housing mess is already bad and CA layoffs are still ramping up (at a 6 pct annual rate last time I checked). I am not certain about this, but my impression is that during the early 1990s downturn, the labor market led the housing market down. This time the housing market already tanked before the labor market, and the worsening recession will only add to a record foreclosure crisis already underway. This is not a black swan — rather it is a black swan orgy.
A black swan is something one couldn’t have foreseen.
Something that was as clear as the nose on your face cannot be a “black swan”.
If I could take my high rent and transfer it into a home of my own I would do it. But for now,
I am a ward of the state’s rental racket.
Save renters and save savers!
I guess the swan only appears black to dumb sh!ts.
FPSS — I was in graduate macro with a prominent macroeconomist in Spring 1998, who was alluding to the fact that “the economy is peaking” a couple of years before the dot bomb landed on Silly Valley. It is amazing how long it takes economic bombs to land once they are dropped from the sky.
Pussy cat, it’s too early for whiskey and I hope nobody minds my little outbursts this morning.
As long as the stock market is closed, I can speak out and tend to other worries. Now where’s my masseuse?
It is amazing how long it takes economic bombs to land once they are dropped from the sky.
I remember telling just about everyone that we were in an absurd bubble circa 1998. It took a few more years before it actually popped.
Same this time. I could see the bubble clearly around late-2003-early-2004
bubble clearly around late-2003-early-2004
I sold a home in 2003…The Realtor brought me a full price, 100% financed offer with a pre-approved buyer…I rejected the offer because I did not believe in the financing. After a little research I ultimately accepted the offer and it closed…
I guess the swan only appears black to dumb sh!ts.
There seem to be alot of them… as heard on CNBC’s “On the Money” a few days ago:
Caller: “We tried to refinance, but our bank said the appraisal came in below what we owe. Is there anything we can do?”
Hostess: “Didn’t you tell us you have plenty of equity in the house?”
Caller: “Absolutely. We have lot’s of equity in the house. We put a 20% downpayment when we bought it a few years ago.”
Hostess: “Well, that’s the probelm. Your equity is gone. That’s why the bank won’t refinance you”
Caller: “…”
Hostess: “Thanks for calling. Next caller…”
These dumb sh!ts don’t understand how markets work and many still don’t understand that real estate can go down in value.
LOL! That’s a great story on the call. Funny how so many people really don’t get it.
We just experienced a massive credit/housing bubble, and these fools are waiting for prices to get back to those lofty levels…what the sellers say are “normal” prices.
I have been thinking recently how the Alt-A and prime ARM reset tsunami will be affected by the lowering of 10 year treasuries and LIBOR rate. I have a coworker that has a prime ARM. He told me recently that the reset will actually reduce his rate, since it is tied to LIBOR and LIBOR is so low currently. Now, I don’t expect the rates to stay so low forever and sooner or later his rate will be adjusted up, but it seems that the rate of reckoning has been postponed for people like him.
Do you think that the current low rates will push the Alt-A and prime ARM reset tsunami a couple a years further? I would hate to see that, since I hope that by 2012-14 the system will be flushed out and I can finally buy a house without worrying of competing with specuvators.
“Do you think that the current low rates will push the Alt-A and prime ARM reset tsunami a couple a years further?”
No, because a lot of folks will be massively underwater on their homes. Who cares if your payment is a little lower but your house is worth $200K less than you paid for it? You still have to pay off the principle amount + interest.
America’s Emptiest Cities
These days, it’s the worst of times for both.
Las Vegas edged Detroit for the title of America’s most abandoned city. Atlanta came in third, followed by Greensboro, N.C., and Dayton, Ohio. Our rankings, a combination of rental and homeowner vacancy rates for the 75 largest metropolitan statistical areas in the country, are based on fourth-quarter data released Feb. 3 by the Census Bureau. Each was ranked on rental vacancies and housing vacancies; the final ranking is an average of the two.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/12/cities-ten-top-lifestyle-real-estate_0212_cities.html
There is an awful lot of fly over cities on that list.
I thought there was no bubble in the heartland?
Minus, the credit bubble, they would’ve had outright depressions starting in 2002. They have no industry, and no prospects either!
Just stable to increasing prices was a bubble. Compare it to rents and incomes and it was an ABSURD bubble.
The HELOC’S and MEW’s IMHO kept things from deteriorating even quicker in areas like ours. With those gone, it seems foreclosures are spreadly even more rapidly.
The fact that Cleveland is not on that list is laughable; 10’s of thousands of homes are either vacant, gutted, boarded up, either abandoned by the owners or owned by the banks. Guess because its Cleveland that it really doesnt matter that much. The epicenter for redlining lawsuits against banks; then, because of Barney’s success, the first to sue in order to try to stop toxic mortgages and predatory lending. Should really have news journalists show the rest of the country what it could wind up looking like. Wasnt the Soviet Union essentially one giant land bank??
Bwahahaha, love to see Atlanta on that list! A wasteland of sprawl, downtown “projects”, and deathtrap highways. And yet, Atlanta residents were in our local gerbil cage liner (I wrap my fish in clean wax paper, thank you) two years ago schooling us rural rubes about how backward our transportation and settlement patterns were.
Oh, AMEN to that, gator. There have been a couple of posters on this blog who moved from FLA to the Atlanta area and loved to crap on Florida and Floridians and blat about how great the Atlanta area was. In fact it is very much like Orlando, IMO, and might even be worse. Seems Atlanta and Orlando are running neck and neck to become the drug gang capital of the Southeast.
Depends what part of Atlanta you’re talking about. There are some parts that are complete wastelands where you can buy a house for $25K.
Other areas like Druid Hills, Morningside, Va. Highlands are just fine to live in. Prices have come down in these areas as well, but nothing like AZ or NV. It’s still hard to find a single family home that is not a teardown for under $300K. And at that price you get a 1200-1400 sq ft house that still needs a lot of work.
And I’m neutral on the city. I’m not from here, nor do I expect to settle down here for the long term. Just giving you an unbiased, outsider point of view.
If you’re willing to go 40-60 minutes from downtown, prices get to just over $100/s.f. (including lot) in a hurry. Vacant new houses out the wazoo, with lenders cinching up the builders.
40-60 minutes when? Sunday at 7:45am or Monday at 7:45? Cuz if it’s Monday at 7:45 40-60 minutes barely gets you out of the city limits. To get to where you’re talking about is more like 90-120 minutes in rush hour traffic.
I was on a project in midtown with someone who lived in Lawrenceville and it would take him at least 1.5 hours each way. And that was on a good day for him. Throw in bad weather or an accident on one of the freeways and it was 2 hours. Not a week went by when I didn’t have to hear his tales of woe on I-85.
I went to his house once for a BBQ and it was a nice place. Big McMansion with all the fixin’s inside. But the guys spends 3 to 4 hours a day in his car. Personally I don’t care if the houses were going for $10 a sq ft, I couldn’t put myself through that every day….especially if I had kids. You leave home at 7 and get home at 7, just in time to eat dinner and get ready to go to bed and do the same thing the next day. Thanks but no thanks, I’ll gladly pay more money to be intown.
13 banks failed so far this year! Whoo Hoo! Wamu!
Just 521 more, and we’ll match the number of banks failed in 1989 (534).
My first post has vanished into the Arizona haze ( Ben ?? ). I had posted that a realtor in the City of Detroit has been advertising “two houses for the price of one !!! ” in his attempts to sell rundown vacant rental properties. I also ran a cross an article in today’s (online) Free Press that states:
A Troy mortgage company sued Wayne County Sheriff Warren Evans on Friday, saying the sheriff has no legal basis to halt the sale of foreclosed homes.
But Evans quickly responded by lauding the decision of several major banks to temporarily halt foreclosures as the Obama administration finalizes a plan to assist struggling homeowners.
“I will not allow one more family to be put out of their home in Wayne County until I am satisfied they have been afforded every option they are entitled to under the law to avoid foreclosure,” Evans said in a statement.
The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Detroit on behalf of Towne Mortgage Co., asks Judge Paul Borman to order Evans to start holding the sales again. The last sales were conducted Jan. 29.
“It is not that this client of mine wants to throw people out of their homes,” said attorney John Jacobs of the Southfield law firm Maddin Hauser, which filed the suit. “They would be happy to work out modifications.”
Evans said last week that he believes the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program, approved by Congress last fall, trumps state law and preempts him from selling foreclosed homes.
“I remain confident that there are sufficient legal grounds under the federal Troubled Asset Relief Program to continue the moratorium in Wayne County,” Evans said. “If Towne Mortgage insists on pushing forward with their lawsuit, rather than waiting even a few days to learn the details of the federal program, we are confident we will prevail.”
About time he was sued. He’s making the law up as he goes so he can take a run at being the next mayor of Detroit posing as a Robin Hood who stopped foreclosures (for a few weeks). He is depriving lenders of their property rights by refusing to hold sheriff sales, which is the mechanism that exists by which foreclosures take place in Michigan.
I was supposed to go to work for some optional overtime today, but it’s too snowy and slippery out, so I can blog instead.
LOL! Mr. Bankruptcy has no idea if they will file.
Feb. 14 (Bloomberg) — Donald Trump resigned from the board of debt-laden Trump Entertainment Resorts Inc. as bondholders weighed forcing the casino company he founded into involuntary bankruptcy next week.
“I have nothing to do with it. I’m not in it, I’m not on the board,” Trump, who was chairman, said in a telephone interview yesterday. He said he had “no idea” whether there will be a bankruptcy filing.
Trump’s departure comes ahead of a Feb. 17 deadline to make a $53 million bond payment first due on Dec. 1. The target has been extended four times since an initial grace period ended Dec. 31. Bondholders are planning to force Trump Entertainment into Chapter 11 bankruptcy early next week, the Wall Street Journal said, citing unidentified people familiar with the matter.
Trump controls 28 percent of the stock, according to a March 21 regulatory filing. His daughter, Ivanka Trump, also resigned, according to an e-mailed statement.
“I strongly disagree with the bondholders’ decisions and actions,” Trump said in the statement without elaborating.
I see NOTHING! I know NOTHING!
so, should I call my mortgage company and ask them if they can “work something out” where my principal does not increase, term does not increase, but payment is lowered?
I’m really tempted. I feel f’ing cheated - since I borrowed what I could afford, have been paying for 7 years, and now they’re talking about FB’s getting a $500 break on their mortgages from Uncle Sam.
What a steaming pile.
Honestly, if I owned, I would be peppering my bank with payments here and there, just enough to avoid foreclosure… cry poor. Screw it, it worked for someone I used to be friends with.
The only reason why we haven’t walked is the ephemeral concept of “good credit”. We might need it as our senior years stretch out. We keep our mortgage and any other payments current for that reason, but in truth, in sheer dollars and sense, it would save us money to buy a foreclosure or rent two thirds of the amount of what we’re paying ( which is affordable and fixed by the way ), and walk away from the current house we’re in. It would save us about $500 a month if we got a lower mortgage on a foreclosure or rented an apartment for about $ 750 closer to where I work. If it ever gets to the point in our society that so many people have lost their houses that FICO scores no longer matter, then we’ll be amongst the homeowner exodus. Our retirement home is paid for, so that’s not a concern. But nursing homes, etc. require good credit on the whole, unless you’re reduced to Medicaid levels. My husband had bought the 2nd house due to a job transfer 3 years prior to our marriage, and we’re living in it now. It’s destined to become rental fodder eventually anyway. No granite counter tops here. We’re still weighing out good credit vs. adding to savings by reducing the monthly housing outgo. I’ve got 6 years to retirement with lifetime health insurance that I would only have to pay 10 percent of the premium on, so it’s well worth the wait until I’m 62 1/2, when I would qualify for it. But in the meantime, we keep reducing our living expenses and piling up savings as much as we can. So, the penalty of bad credit vs. monthly outgo is quite a conundrum.
In case my post above doesn’t show, I either didn’t realize or forgot you were in the Detroit area. Was wondering where, if you don’t mind. Thanks!!
Blano, see above to your first post. Info is there. Where are you located in Foreclosureland, MI ?
His vision would mark the end of the so-called supermarket banking model, in which a single financial institution dabbles in a range of services from consumer accounts to investment banking.
Mr. Volcker blamed the current crisis largely on compensation practices that “had gotten totally out of hand,” and on “obscure financial engineering.”
Globe and Mail: Obama adviser looks to Canada’s financial system
Thank heavens Volcker’s voice is rising to the surface. He is one of the few who will shoot from the hip and speak common sense when he feels he has something to add to the conversation.
I don’t expect this administration to do the right thing any more than I expected it of the last. I do expect this admin to be more financially incompetent than the last. I know that is a hard pill to swallow, but we have for the most part Clinton retreads who last ran the country during the upswing of the dot com bubble. They are not capable of making tough decisions in a contracting economy.
The key bit of info I’ve gleaned in the last 24 hours is that the S&P 500 will show a loss for the current quarter. That’s never happened before. Ever. What can the candy crappin’ unicorn(tm) and friends do to stand up against that tidal wave.
S&P estimates that reported earnings to drop to $14.15 by 2009Q3.
Not that I put much weight on S&P estimates but still.
It’s gonna be a bloodbath. You can’t stop this hurricane.
wow, so business as a whole doesn’t pay…
used to be that crime didn’t pay
Additionally, there has been a scripture that comes to mind frequently when I read about the newest government plan, Isaiah 8:9.
Associate yourselves, O ye people, and ye shall be broken in pieces; and give ear, all ye of far countries: gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces; gird yourselves, and ye shall be broken in pieces.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/isa/8/9#9
For me, there are few examples and few words that really convey the potential carnage. Nations and an entire civilization have become soft and dependant, naive and weak.
You might imagine children at the playground, innocent and playful, when the rabid grizzly bear, crazed with hunger, bursts onto the scene.
Mayhem, panic, bloodbath - these words should not suggest any calculated agenda or conspiracy.
Instead, imagine a total lack of planning and preparation by the inexperienced. Imagine an implacable and overpowing foe.
Imagine abject poverty, starvation, and social upheaval. The big bad bear of financial disintegration will respect no boundaries. When he hits neighborhoods and nations where they least expect it, the victims will not know its name, or how to stop it. But the survivors will remember the claws and teeth of destruction for the rest of their lives.
Sorry, Mad Max, it’s not going to be anywhere as dramatic. Even in GD1, it pretty much played out quite boringly, the “grandiose images” notwithstanding.
Ultimately, it’s the slow-drip-drip-drip of bad news that is completely relentless that erodes the will of the people.
“Sorry, Mad Max, it’s not going to be anywhere as dramatic. Even in GD1, it pretty much played out quite boringly, the “grandiose images” notwithstanding.”
Interesting that you use “Mad Max”.
At Thanksgiving dinner 2006 I advised my own brother to get out of the stock market and build up some savings, as tough times were coming. At the time he was HELOCing and beautifying his house thinking its value would increase really soon. He was kind of annoyed and said to everybody” I don’t think so, Mad Max! Jobs are plentiful and there’s just not going to be any global financial meltdown!” He has since been told by his employer - a college - that after June 2009 he is out of a job. He plans to move as soon as his house sells.
You can paint all the soft landing picture you want, but in GD1 America was much more tied to agriculture, people had savings, and the nation had trade surpluses. I don’t see a slow drip-drip-drip this time.
I see more a flash flood followed by a hurricane.
We can agree to disagree over things that haven’t happened yet. Time will tell; always does. I bid you Peace.
Jobs are plentiful
I never felt that way anytime during this past decade. From my perspective jobs (at least the kind that pay well) have been in short supply. I have changed jobs 3 times this decade (1 was involuntary) and it has never been easy to find another job. Of course I am in software development, so things have been made extra tight by our friends in India.
My brother is in supply chain management in the Raleigh area, and he has been through 2 involuntary jobs changes in the past two years. He is facing a 3rd one by this summer, and he tells me that it is now looking especially dire. But not being too picky he was able to find replacement jobs within 2 months, but now says that there is absolutely nothing.
He moved to Raleigh less than 2 years ago, after miraculously selling his previous house after it sat without showings for months (to his credit, he listened to me and undercut all his neighbors once he realized that it wouldn’t sell at the inflated price his relator conjured). At the time I told him to rent, but he refused to listen at the time and bought a house in a far flung suburb. He did tell me the other day that he regrets not listening to me and is afraid that he is now under water, even though he put 20% down. He really wishes that he still had that money in the bank.
Yep, that must be inflationary. LOL
A desperation for the liquid variety is most assuredly a sign of deflationary times, fiat-currency or gold standard!
Didn’t have time to post yesterday, but the NYT ran a summary article of the key bailout provisions…..for the 1st time home buyer credit, the article listed income caps. $75K for singles and $150K for couples to qualify for the credit. So, if in fact the income caps were restored in the final legislation, this will do zero to help expensive bubble markets. You have to be making at least those income levels in order to afford to buy in the first place.
The fact the credit went from $15,000 to what, $8,000, and now with income caps, basically makes this a moot piece of legislation.
Yeah, that’s a waste of the piece of paper it was written on.
Not to mention the absurd amount of effort it will take to maintain it, and all the changes of forms, etc.
Marketwatch.com has a special section on deflation today, pretty good read:
http://tinyurl.com/dz88hc
It has parts on: 1) What’s it is like to live in a deflationary environment on a daily basis as told from someone who lived in Japan during the 90’s, 2) Stock performance during deflation, 3) Fixed income investment during deflation and 4) How deflation is bad for everyone and no party to be found anywhere.
Overall it is one big deflationarama.
Thanks for the link–food for thought, and the comments were good, too.
A little help here…
I did so well with my 20th anniversary gift with help from the HBB that I decided to let y’all give input to a potential spring vacation trip for the family.
We went to Catalonia and Berlin via Leipzig last year, and I’m not trying to “top” that trip, but I’d be happy to spend about the same amount of money this time out.
Some of my early suggestions are the following, in order of airfare cost from LAX.
Washington, DC
NYC
Frankfurt, Germany
Dublin, Ireland
Feel free to give additional suggestions, the trip is for myself, wifey, and four girls ages 11-16. Money is an object only in that I am a cheap bastard at heart and am adverse to wasting it.
Thanks in advance HBB family!
Since I’m from NYC, and everyone knows about us, I’ll tout DC instead.
Amazing museums (all free or free-ish); quite cheap; great food.
Good weather as long as you don’t go in the dog days of summer when it is humid.
Downside: lobbyists, politicians, “DC types” (y’all know what I mean, right?)
On the flip-side, I’m from DC and would like to tout New York. Springtime in DC is jam packed with people. DC can’t take a crowd like New York can. And now metro (subway) is talking about decreasing the number of trains and closing at 10pm on weeknights. Not that I think they’ll do it.. but funding shortfalls will cause problems either way.
New York has culture and history, DC just has history. DC restaurants have improved greatly in the last 10 years, but still don’t match New York.
That being said, if you do come to DC in the spring you might be able to catch Capitals playoff hockey.
I like DC and am going to visit daughter in the area in about a month. We like the Smithsonian. She needs to see her mom. She’s a 7th grade teacher already destined for heaven, as far as I can make out judging from her stories. Lord.
brushing elbows with fat, pasty federal employees with blow-dried hair on the Metro, you mean?
No worries, all-day Metro card only good after 9:30AM, by then all fed employees are safely ensconced in their concrete and steel prisons for the day. Once inside, they will not emerge, even to feed, so it’s all good.
I think Dublin is great, but then again, I consider drinking beer a perfectly good way to spend an afternoon.
But if you’re thinking Ireland, why not get off the plane in Shannon and spend time on the west coast? Dublin is great, but the Ireland most people want to see is on that side of the island…
Do they not rent automobiles in Dublin? Also, what would the weather be like in late March? I’ve been thinking August is a better month for the Emerald Isle.
Yes, if you’re under 65 but over 25 you can rent a car in Dublin. Note that it is right-hand drive (steering wheel on the right, drive in the left lane). Also, there is a surcharge for an automatic.
However, I grew up driving standard transmissions in the US and have also lived in Australia and consider driving a right-hand drive standard transmission car a valuable change in perspective. It isn’t hard to get used to any drive switch provided you have an co-pilot when you first transition; and the hardest part of driving a standard transmission, right hand drive auto as an American is that while shifting with your left hand isn’t nearly as hard as you think it will be, drinking coffee with your left hand while driving is almost utterly impossible. I learned that on a tiny little road in Tasmania while ungodly hungover the day following Boxing Day.
I loved Washington DC. Especially all the free museums. However not sure if your daughters would like being in museums and looking a monuments the whole time. May I suggest a couple of days of doing just what your daughters would like to do where ever you go.
BTW, what made you choose Frankfurt, Germany as a place to go?
Seriously. Frankfurt and DC don’t belong on that list. I’d replace Frankfurt with Munich or Vienna. Or saying in that part of the world… Budapest.. Split.
Some of the best times I’ve had vacationing have been in Ireland. Friendliest people in the world IMHO.
I couldn’t give the whole list, but Munich doesn’t cost much more than Frankfurt. I’ve heard there is a great air museum there. I’d like to see Salzburg, and Munich is a much better place from which to do that.
Munich was fun. I mean, the prices there weren’t fun, but the rest of it was (and we had a free place to stay–score!). Well, Holocaust markers and train to Dachau were downers.
Prague is awesome! Beautiful buildings, public parks, the river, Dvorak museum. Kafka. So much culture. Want to go back for the synagogue tour. I would seriously need a month there!
Heck, depends on time of year for all those places.
Why not add Dubrovnik?
Greek isles were the best, cleanest, cheapest trip ex and I ever went on. The ferries were cheap and easy way to go from island to island. Leave Athens after only one day there. Smoggy, crowded, and after you see the Parthenon, you have seen it all.
But the islands, rent mopeds and travel all over. Best trip ever.
Have the girls watch that movie (brain fart occuring) the one with Meryl Streep. Go in early summer.
I love Ireland/Dublin, but boring compared to Greece trip. Especially with youngish girl children (you).
Paris is pretty spectacular. Easy to get around.But you wanted cheap/frugal.
Oh if you want another fantastic cheap trip, try Argentina. Nicest people, food is superb. Lots to do, topography is incredible and diverse. Wine is cheap and fantastic.
Safe, as is Greece.
Airfares for intl travel at all time low.
Never met a kid who didn’t go ape over the Air & Space musuem.
There’s also some rather nice parkland in the area (within DC and out). It was actually a very beautiful place before they covered it with sprawl.
And yet they managed to get the explanation of Bernoulli’s principle wrong!
You think an entire museum devoted to flying would manage to get something so basic right but no!
It’s one large ad for NASA is what it is.
But it’s worth going to to see the tincans they flew to the moon in.
And yet they managed to get the explanation of Bernoulli’s principle wrong!
If that’s the case, I’m sure they hear about it every ding-dang day.
All they have to do is paste a correction over the exhibit text.
The fact that they haven’t doesn’t speak well for them.
Oh well, at least it’s better than Epcot. Corporate-shill-a-thon! An exhibit on communication from AT&T (the defunct one, not the company now calling itself ATT)! An exhibit on energy from your friends at the coal lobby! Woo!
I loved that their “history of communication” went on and on about the Bible and completely left out China. The mushroom system: feed ‘em [dung] and keep ‘em in the dark.
I thought I would spend a couple of hours in the Air & Space museum, ended up spending the whole day. The Air & Space museum was my favorite out all of the museums.
We took many trips to DC in the summer when no one was there. My dad traveled there frequently for work, so he wanted to take us to all the things that he never had time to do while on business.
The Air and Space was great, also loved the collection of gowns worn by First Ladies. Got to meet John Glenn. Mom lied about my age so I could see congress. Years later, I lied about my age so I could visit some bars.
Also went to Ireland to visit relatives when I was about 8 or 9. We stayed with relatives. The historic aspects of Dublin went right over my head, but I loved the countryside, a couple of the people we visited still had working farms. The farm food was a little weird, however, I recall lumpy non-homogenized milk, too many hard-boiled eggs and an absolute dearth of sugar. My relatives wanted to know why I wasn’t loud and outgoing and also why we didn’t have a maid like the “Brady Bunch.”
Frankfurt, low airfare, I love Bavaria. If we go there we would probably fly to a Ryanair city and drive back to Frankfurt. I really don’t like taking trains in Europe but I love to drive, and get lost, in the countryside.
I agree about not staying the whole week in DC, we’ve been before but just for 2 days, not nearly enough time. My daughters do well with museums and love history. My wife? Not so much. Maybe a couple of day trips or overnight into Virginia? Destinations?
Mount Vernon (Geo Wash home) is a nice tour. You could also rent a car and head down to the Charlottesville area for a tour of Monticello (Jefferson’s home). Natural Bridge VA and Luray Caverns VA are also interesting tours - both require car or tour bus transportation.
… skyline drive… Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Air & Space Museum (Space Shuttle, SR-71!)… Old Town Alexandria, torpedo factory… appalachian trail.
Oh.. and the Inn at Little Washington.
Ryanair. Watch the luggage restriction, you may be stranded or pay through the roof.
Air Berlin, Germanwings are low cost alternatives, book online, more reliable. Ryan air often uses out of the way airports!
We did three weeks all over the continent about 5 years ago on Ryanair. We packed for the whole trip with backpacks only! This is why I prefer renting a flat or villa vs. hotel.
How about Asheville, North Carolina? Awesome in the spring and fall. Cheaper than the summer, too.
I’ve heard Asheville is nice. What is there to see there?
Yes, that’s what i wanna know. Biltmore, and else?
Smokey Mtns! Hell with Biltmore, I insisted we skip it!
I never understood why Asheville is popular. Unless you go to the Smokey’s.
Outer Banks, however. They are out of the way, a bit. I don’t know how the weather is in spring… but less people. Before they sink into the sea forever…I’d spend a week there. Just the wind, the sand…
While hotel prices in DC are outrageous, virtually all of the “sights” are free - Smithsonian, Natl Gallery of Art, Natl Zoo, Wash Monument, Arlington Cemetery, Lincoln Memorial, Capitol, White House, Jefferson Memorial, etc. All you have to pay for is the tour bus, taxi, or Metro. You need tickets (free) for the Capitol or the White House tour, but all the information you need is at their web sites.
Ix-nay on the hotel prices.
Just got back from DC in December. They were desperate for customers (just like elsewhere.)
I think the average was less than $120/night (all added in.) And it was a really nice place on Capitol Hill on the Senate side.
and if that’s too rich for your wallet you can always stay in some seedy dump in Arlington near the Metro station like we did in grad school. The metro ride *is* really boring, though.
Crystal City is better.
You get good connectivity on the Metro because the Pentagon is on the same line.
Crystal City is better.
Yahhh, but it’s government office tower hell. I suppose if you’re into the Crystal City Restaurant that’s a good place to stay. *smirk*
Oh, man. We forgot the Manassas battlefields too.
True, true but we were going for brute cheap hotel cost here which, I may add, is the largest component of your daily costs on vacation.
I did a quick calculation that if you had a sufficiently cheap hotel in CC, you could pretty much live it up in DC - restaurants, etc. even on a budget.
D.C. is great, and nearly all the musuems are free, but more time consuming to enter now that they have airport style security.
post won’t post.
Aside from DC, I completely suggest Greek Isles.
Clean, Cheap, Safe, fun, lots of beaches, mopeds are fab, food is terrific. Girls will love this trip. Take ferries from isle to isle and those are cheap. Lots of european travelers with backpacks. You parents will love this place as well.
There used to be a good Japanese restaurant in Crystal City, dunno if it’s still there, very close to the Hyatt. We always went there once during Katsucon (anime convention). It kind of faces the bus stops on the service drive near I-95.
Inside Crystal City proper is fun to laugh at…
“wifey, and four girls ages 11-16″………..
Holy sh*t, how do you handle all that estrogen at one time, under one roof?? You must be one hel*uva man.
Not Frankfurt. There is nothing there. I spent a week there last summer. You could, from there, take the train to Wuerzburg, which has been admirably restored, has an exhibit on the allied incendiary bombing raids (best history lesson ever in one room, take lots of tissues), and good wine, hmmm.
Near Wuerzburg, Rothenburg o.d. Tauber, an exquisite example of a walled medieval town.
North of Fra, the Rhine castles,- not my kind of thing, but maybe a lesson in how taxes used to work centuries ago, being imposed by those who were secure up on the mountains.
The strangest thing about my visit to Frankfurt was the cluelessness and fast asleepness, a month before t.s.h.t.f.
Biking along the Danube maybe, instead? Melk monastery? Swiss Alps? Lago Como? Go to Vienna maybe instead.
Been to Wurzburg and Altenburg. They are both great.
Thanks again to all for the insights, sounds like DC has the popular support.
Blano, I do indeed live in an estrogen rich environment. I figure it’s best to wait until my youngest goes away to school before I get the breast reduction done.
LOL!!!
HELP! HELP!!!!!! Ex-nnvmrtgbroker where are you?!?!?
Quick story: my grandparents are about to buy at the Hovnanian 4 seasons in HEMET without selling their house in Minden first.
They’re getting old (76 and 72) thus the rush. However, they don’t want to be landlords. if they move to Hemet, the ONE PERSON that could care for them in their dotage, my mother, would be over 2 hours away in Mission Viejo (south Orange County, CA). I’m in Tustin (Central OC). In traffic — fuggedaboutit.
I spent an hour on the phone with them (despite my mother telling me point blank not to call) last night throwing everything I had at them and my grandpa said that if I could get some info together and send it to him ASAP he would read it and think about NOT buying. (He doesn’t have a computer OR know how to use the Internet; believe me, if there weren’t hella-storms over the Sierras i’d be driving up there RIGHT NOW. HELP!)
I’m putting together Google traffic maps, Hovnanians recent stock performance, cheap condos/townhouses closer to my parents in MV, Ivy Zellman’s reset chart, any meth/crime stats I can find on Hemet, and articles on this development.
Send me links people (but don’t send them as links as they may not clear Ben’s spam filter). There’s not a moment to lose!!!!! I’ll send another packet of info on Monday if you guys send me anything important that I miss.
Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
Well, one thing I’d tell the grandparents is that stairs are very dangerous as they get older, Hanoverian models are replete with stairs, and whose gonna take care of them when one of them has a broken hip ? Seriously. Why are they sizing up instead of down ? Very puzzling.
Especially the narrow steep rickety stairs in most McCrapShacks!
Lawd, I’m young, and I’ve had to hold the banister a few times in these absurd houses.
Try this for some Minden info…
http://www.renorealtyblog.com:
I went to school in Hemet,grew up there. Know it oh too well.
I have trusted friend who could help you and then your parents.
Contact me and I will put you in touch her. ellisisland123 at yahoooooo dot com. This friend is very well equipped to address senior parents, hers, her h’s and since Hemet has always been a huge senior town, friend will help with much needed info, and has many just grown kids so she knows all about the possible(forsure) situation regarding drugs.
I cannot help wondering how many people here voted for Obama to “punish” Bush for being reckless (i.e., $250B to $500B deficits)…and now we have another $1T in debt overnight, and $2T deficits as far as the eye can see (much of it due to future payments on the programs started by the “stimulus”).
Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot.
(yes, I know, Bush and the Reps have more than their fair of the blame, but really, is taking the country into BK a smart way to punish them)
Nope, not me.
I voted against Palin for President in 09
Just pure and simple, I could not vote for Palin as President in 09.
Well, you got your way…and my kid just got hit up with thousands in additional debt, due to your vote.
Thanks…I hope that I get the chance to return the favor soon.
My pleasure.
Hope he goes to Bush’s war in Iraq too.
He won’t, I made sure he got an education that assures he keeps clear of the front lines, and I’m SURE you cannot match that claim.
Good night.
“Hope he goes to Bush’s war in Iraq too.”
Dude…That was not called for.
Got Bitter?
Is this one a troll? Not a good way to start off new on a site, is it?
What does everybody here think about the census turning into a virtual reality game? Is there anyway to to make money in the new census that soon will be owned by the white house?
What is it with talk radio
listenersmouthbreathers and the census?The previous administration manipulated, misused, or falsified every single piece of data it could get its grubby lil’ paws on and now you’re worried about an executive branch and its relationship to data?
Give me a break.
So even if true, that makes it right now.
Pretty weak defenders of Obama these days.
Try again.
The Census is overseen by the executive branch under any president. The Census may now be overseen by a different portion of the executive branch. As far as I can tell, no official policy decision about this has even been made — it’s all rumor and speculation at this point.
I notice that Fox News is really, really trying to make this into something significant, and the Talk Radio Troggs are similarly trying to muster up their false outrage. Apparently it’s the greatest power grab since Nixon, if Mr. Gingrich is to be believed. (Ha! Wait, did he forget a few years in there?)
Why don’t you explain the problem to me? I guess I don’t get it.
And why don’t you answer my previous question: Where was all this outrage before?
Karl Rove in charge of the census is ok with you then.
And, yes, it was the White House (i.e., not accountable to Congress) that has STOLEN the census for its own purposes.
As far as outrage…my we have a short memory of the PURE BUSH HATRED, some, unfortunately on this site.
Again…Karl Rove is in charge of the census and you’re ok with that? Exactly what country is your role model - it certainly isn’t this one?
Again…Karl Rove is in charge of the census and you’re ok with that? Exactly what country is your role model - it certainly isn’t this one?
I’m sorry, what are you talking about?
I asked you to explain the issue to me and you start babbling about Karl Rove.
I ask you to explain where the outrage on the right was when far greater problems (not hypothetical might-be-issues based on rumors) surfaced under the previous administration, and you vaguely mention “pure Bush hatred”. That’s not an answer, either.
Can you explain this issue to me or not?
Don’t you get it yet?
Obama can do no wrong with some people. Or if it is wrong, it’s still OK because Bush was even worse.
Look at the ice storm in KY. A million people with no power in the middle of winter, weeks after the storm. Not a peep from the MSM or the Obama kool-aid drinkers. Compare that to the apoplectic and shrill media reaction to New Orleans.
When Michigan, NY, PA, and MA suddenly gain millions of people in 2010 and TX, GA, AL, OK and ID suddenly lose millions of people you’ll figure out why it may not have been such a good idea.
Oh I get it now, thanks.
It is the phantom demons of the opponents of Buuuuussssshhhh. Yea, I remember them, every time I went to the library, there were guys in suits with earphones standing there talking to Karl Rove about what I was reading. You know the dreaded “Patriot Act”.
I remember driving past those Bush prison camps on the way to work, the oppression never ended.
Silly me.
We need Whitehouse control of the Census to make sure that people in all 57 states are counted right!
It’s really up to the courts to ensure a fair census. Obama’s basically acting like a potentate with his move to control the census and obviously be able to rig election outcomes. Even Clinton didn’t consider trying that move in 2000.
Pretty sad what we’ve become, after such a fine history.
Poor DoughHead… Everything he touched turned to gold and nobody admits it!
BWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
“Pretty sad what we’ve become, after such a fine history.”
Pretty sad indeed.
DC would be an obvious choice with a group of boys but I don’t know about girls that age. Boys would go nuts at the Air & Space museum and its much larger restoration facility outside the beltway. Plus easy access to Civil War battlefields e.g. Fredericksburg.
girls don’t go nuts at A&S?
you must not know very many girls
that place outside the beltway is a pain to get to, but then again, my experiences with driving on vacation (especially this last one–NEVER driving in TN again!) have convinced me that they’re a contradiction in terms.
How about a day trip to Baltimore’s Inner Harbor?
Oh, gawd, don’t let them escape past the perimeter! They might get a whiff of urban decay! Or ask why they can’t eat at the Afghani restaurant instead of eating overcooked greasy seafood again.
Is the savings rate killing the economy?
The government calculates savings by totaling up after-tax income and subtracting spending. The remainder is considered savings by the government even if consumers are using the leftover money for investing or paying down debt instead of saving it in a bank.
See what I mean? They are calculating the official savings rate in such a way that every single dime you pay on a credit card bill is counted as savings.
Did you make a $400 car payment last month? Whoo hoo - you saved money! Did you make a $1200 mortgage payment? Cha-ching! More savings! Did you pay Vinnie some of that money you borrowed from him at 8,726% interest? You are saving waaay too much money dude - and Mark Zandi with Moody’s says you’re causing the economy to struggle mightily.
I have no explanation other than Mark Zandi is a total moron.
Saving money bad, buying lotsa houses good. This, in a nutshell, is the solution to the current economic morass that is being pushed by the brightest and best of the Obama economics brain trust.
Not sure I understand. Why would paying down debt not be considered savings?
Sure it’s not an increase of positive savings, like say buying a CD, however it is a decrease in negative savings (i.e. debt) - so yes, it is quite validly a contributor to the savings rate.
Negative savings? Sounds suspiciously like spending to me. Like banks reporting that they had less “negative earnings”. It’s still a loss.
Savings is what you have left over after expenses. Paying $100 on a $1000 credit card balance still leaves you $900 in the hole, but the government says you had a 10% savings rate.
Unless you have money left over after paying your expenses, you aren’t saving anything. You may be doing a great thing by reducing your debt, but you still have zero savings.
The link “not a gator” posted above goes to a long post where I go into a lot of detail about this - and a lot of other stuff.
Actually, if you read the whole article, it turns out that paying interest is counted as saving, so if you take out piles of interest-only loans and they gobble up half your income, by their accounting you are a super saver!
Some words of wisdom from my friendly neighborhood Realtor / e-mail spammer — don’t trust the news, Case-Schiller, or your lyin’ eyes, ” no one knows your market as well as your local @properties agent”:
Real Estate is Local
Neighborhood by Neighborhood,
Block by Block
The Tribune reports that on the Near North Side, median home prices were up 9.35% last year and in Uptown prices rose 5.93%.
But if you’ve picked up a newspaper, turned on the TV or surfed the ‘net in the past few weeks, you’ve inevitably seen negative news about the nationwide drop in home prices from S&P/Case-Shiller Home Price index — a monthly index that reports the change in average home prices year-over-year.
Fortunately, this macro view of the U.S. housing market is of little value to sellers in Chicago. The S&P/Case-Shiller Index and other national indices don’t know the market in your neighborhood or on your block. No one knows your market as well as your local @properties agent.
B*llocks!
Read the rental vacancy rate in Chicago (in that article above.) It’s off the charts!
Chicago has always had high vacancy rates. You could always rent in Wicker Park, Andersonville, Lincoln Square, etc. in the 90’s for very reasonable prices.
They got trendy with the bubble, and they will trend down again.
Oh, I agree with you.
Just reporting the Local Realtor Propaganda for the HBB’s amusement/derision.
All foreclosures are local.
Just got off the phone with my pops… he asked me if I watched “House of Cards” and if I’d ever heard of “stated income” loans. He said, “I can’t believe that chit!”
Yes, dad. I am familiar with all that.
…and the masses slowly awaken.
I had a similar conversation with my dad a few weeks ago about neg. amortization loans.
Your dad is cute, Muggy. Mine yelled at his banker last year and closed his account at a massive southern bank because of liar loans and taking off shore drug money. ( I don’t remember which bank. ) Told the “nice young man” that his bank was part of the problem and that it was helping bring on the next depression. He might be right, too.
5261 Foreclosures in Port St Lucie, 1239 in Fort Pierce, anyone buying?
oh port st lucie… sic transit vana et breva gloria mundi
Port St Lucie and Fort Pierce.
Hmmm…. I’ve motorcycled the Hutchinson Island side of North and the inlet side South. Nice ride.
Inland Fort Pierce is a hood.
Port St Lucie is indescribable, it should never be. 10’s of thousands of houses, no industry, no commerce, no entertainment, no nothin xept misery.
More startling is the other side of the state, Naples Fl is cratering big time.
Today I went shopping for a foreclosure; I say this with no sense of self importance or histrionics, I would not buy a regular 2000 sqft stucco house built in 04-05 in Port St Lucie for 50K UNLESS I was 100% sure I could unload it immediately.
04 and 05 reators in northern Palm Beach County were pushing people who had been priced out forever in Palm Beach County to buy in Port Saint Lucie while they still could. The reason I know this is because that is what 2 of them told me.
I hope this is one of those far fetched predictions that most likely will not come true. I was listening to NPR yesterday about how some people have been affected by this slowing economy. The picture they painted of their reality was heart wrenching
The crash of 2008 continues to reverberate loudly nationwide—destroying jobs, bankrupting businesses, and displacing homeowners. But already, it has damaged some places much more severely than others. On the other side of the crisis, America’s economic landscape will look very different than it does today. What fate will the coming years hold for New York, Charlotte, Detroit, Las Vegas? Will the suburbs be ineffably changed? Which cities and regions can come back strong? And which will never come back at all?
by Richard Florida
How the Crash Will Reshape America
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200903/meltdown-geography
This is pretty good as one of those “big picture” articles.
Of course, it doesn’t lay off sniffing Pollyanna’s P*ssy long enough to suggest that its “best-case scenarios” are pretty optimistic.
I see another trademark FPss.
LOL
But seriously, there’s really something wacked about this country in its insistence that everything be spun to the positive.
If I say I’m not going to be the next Roger Federer, that is not “negative”. That is pretty much brute reality. Which doesn’t stop me from trying to play the best tennis I possibly can; it just means, well, I’m not going to be a Federer ever. Nor is the rest of the world.
In this country, everyone would be like “why are so down on yourself?” and that’s when I want to bring out the axe and swing it around!
Really, why are you so down on yourself? Making sure there’s no swinging axe coming at me.
ROTFLMAO
‘I see another trademark FPss.’
You beat me to it, tea.
Incidentally, the author is one of those typical journalist types who doesn’t really understand cause and effect relationships.
He claims that Bloomberg is a tech company. Nope, directly plugged into the financial matrix. It’s more of a media company.
The single largest instantaneous loser in the Lehman bankruptcy was Bloomberg. At a shot, nearly 4000 terminals were shut down. That’s a loss of $120M a month (although Lehman definitely had a volume discount so probably more like $20-30M a month!)
Happy Valentine’s Day Everyone!
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Tomorrow (Sunday) we will be OPEN again from 1pm - 4pm as well as 5pm - 8pm. The Hideaway Sales team will also be hosting a Home Tour with 10 spectacular Villas to view; ranging from $1.8M - $2.695M. We’d like to encourage everyone to stop by, epecially if you haven’t been to the Hideaway in awhile!
Any questions please call Jennifer @
3 Bedrooms
3 Full and 1 Partial Baths
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80340 Via Pessaro (Lot#187), La Quinta
Think how much more motivated they will be in a year’s time!
It’s gaudy beyond belief and the faux Mediterranean doesn’t do it for me.
I’m having a really naughty limerick moment on the whole “woodchuck chuck” thing with realtors but I don’t think it’s gonna pass the censor board.
I’m w/ FPSS. I don’t like that Tuscan stuff. That whole architectural fad says “Donald Trump wannabe” to me and is already going out of favor along with everything else that smacks of McMansion. If I was going to spend $ 2.9 million, which I don’t have, I’d like something on the shore of Lake Michigan. And less stone and wine celler.
Of course, it’s right next to Joshua Tree National Park which gives it a piquant and striking irony.
I don’t like faux-Tuscan either. However, there is one good point about that style– tile roofs. Something SENSIBLE in fire-prone California! Who’d a thunk?
Better a renter than bad borrower going down with their mortgage chains, still, more than a few renters must be thinking: “Landlord troubles = my troubles too.” As our HR department head says, “It’s a bitch of a labor market these days, and no one gives a damn where your degree is from.”
“…and no one gives a damn where your degree is from.”
That is such a blatantly stupid statement, it almost could only have come out of the mouth of an HR staffer.
Financial Times
Fumble to stumble
By Edward Luce and Krishna Guha
Published: February 13 2009 19:45 | Last updated: February 13 2009 19:45
Geithner Outlines Treasury’s New Financial Stability Plan…WASHINGTON -
FEBRUARY 10: U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner announces details of a financial stability plan at the U.S. Treasury Building February 10, 2009 in Washington, DC. The plan is expected to address frozen credit markets in the U.S. economy. (Photo by Win McNamee/Getty Images)
Harsh light of day: Tim Geithner at the US Treasury announcing his financial stability plan on Tuesday. Stocks fell in New York after he provided less detail than many expected
Seven days ago, the joke in Washington was that Barack Obama had suffered the worst possible week of his presidency – in spite of having just three from which to choose. The loss of Tom Daschle, Mr Obama’s nominee for health secretary, to the usual shenanigans over tax arrears was a big setback. But a week, as the cliché goes, is a long time in politics and this last one has proved even more uncomfortable.
The withdrawal on Thursday night of Judd Gregg, the Republican senator from New Hampshire, who had a change of heart about whether he could fit in with a Democratic administration, is not in the same league as the loss of Mr Daschle. Although an embarrassment, Mr Gregg’s withdrawal as the nominee for commerce secretary is likely to end up as a footnote. The same would probably apply to almost any other banana skin lying in wait for Mr Obama were he to lead America out of recession and help restore confidence in the global capitalist system.
Unfortunately, the difficulty of that task looks even greater today than during the euphoria of his inauguration. The blame for that has been heaped on Tim Geithner, Mr Obama’s Treasury secretary, who is accused of having botched his announcement on Tuesday of a new financial sector rescue plan.
..Unfortunately, the difficulty of that task (..to lead America out of recession..) looks even greater today than during the euphoria of his inauguration…
This is not unfortunate. This is progress. Hopefully BO will soon reach the point where he knows he cannot lead America out of recession, and will give it up.
Of course he’s not powerless… there are many things he could do (and not-do) to minimize the damage.
Among them, he can avoid deepening and prolonging the recession by not trying to deficit-spend us back into prosperity.
Instead of propping up the corpses of the dead, he might allow free enterprise to turn them under so they do not infect the healthy portions of the economy.
From his central position of power, he could formulate and oversee a plan for the orderly disposal of the mountains of toxic debt that now paralyze the banking system.
He can let go of the fantasy wherein government knows how to run businesses and knows what’s best for them. He can stop pitting us against ourselves for the sake of political gain..
What is unfortunate (for us) is that all the ways govt might really help precludes it from taking advantage of the situation… from strengthening it’s hold on society at a time when society is weakened and vulnerable… and this runs contrary government’s nature and instincts.
I watched obama’s speech the night before and clearly remember him say he would not elaborate on geithners anouncement because he dident want to take away his moment in the spotlight. LOL! The whole thing blew up in his face!
How long until Geithy-boy gets tossed overboard?
What makes you think they will toss him overboard? He seems well qualified for a cabinet post (personal income tax issues, housekeeper with work visa issues, etc)…
Sooner or later everyone becomes too much of a political liability.
This one is starting with a lot of hoof-in-mouth syndromes.
Michael Hudson (from his website)
More money going to debt service = less money going to taxes
Ever noticed how public buildings get cheaper and cheaper in production values (though becomes seemingly more and more expensive to build–in part b/c of land price)?
This is really a fascinating assertion. Mama was right. Things do have to get worse before they get better. The velvet glove of the bankers will have to be squeezing our throats and choking us to death before The People fight back.
Governments at the state, local and federal levels are strapped for funds – but only because the natural source of taxation, land rent and monopoly rent and the user fees from public enterprise have been financialized.
No, they’re strapped for funds because govt will not cut spending when tax revenues fall, all the while creating new taxes and increasing existing taxes. No matter how much they take in and no matter the sources, it can never be enough.
The financial sector thus has replaced government as recipient of the economic surplus – leaving the public sector starved of cash.
Oh my.. govt is not the recipient of economic surplus?? That’s just terrible! Poor government! Poor us! Those evil bankers!
How will government afford to feed us? How will it continue to provide for us?
(Of course this is just more mob-baiting, anti-capitalist, bubble-blame-game propaganda and no thoughtful person, including the author, actually takes such views seriously.)
I can’t believe how many Americans would rather see money go to government than to private enterprise.. Well, i probably could believe it, but it’s too distressing to come to terms with.
Bruno Waterfield of the London Daily Telegraph reports to have seen an eyes-only document prepared by the European Commission for the finance ministers of the various EU member countries. The problem revealed in the report is an estimated write-down by European banks in the range of 16 trillion pounds, or about $25 trillion dollars! The concern is that bailing out the various national banks for such an unbelievable amount would push the cost of government borrowing to much higher levels than we see today.
Finally, a plausible number!
US is still about $40T. Global about $80T.
Based on this mornings musings on the intertubes, looks like the financial tsunami has reached the Baltics…. my impression is that Sovereign lines of credit will be reigned in creating some sort of Eastern European Oligarch short squeeze. The Euro is taking the beatdown as the porridge wogs short the euro and buy the pound of gold.
Im not sure if Buiter has fully recovered from the weekends reading. Herr-stat claret goes down better a shot of Mezcal con gusano.
ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND boss Stephen Hester is to unveil a brutal cost-cutting exercise, alongside record losses of close to £30 billion, that are expected to lead to a further 10,000 to 20,000 job cuts.
…
The project is also expected to see the bank exit a number of countries in emerging markets, and sell off dozens of businesses now deemed to be non-core.
Timesonline: £30 billion loss at RBS prompts savage job cuts
The deleveraging pooch is h*mping RBS big time!
If mishandled by the world policy establishment, this debacle is big enough to shatter the fragile banking systems of Western Europe and set off round two of our financial Götterdämmerung.
Telegraph: Failure to save East Europe will lead to worldwide meltdown
Are we about to witness another grand wave of deleveraging?
If “deverleveraging” is just another word for “money destruction”, then the answer to your question is a “yes”.
Money destruction results in money scarcity, which makes any surviving money more precious, more valuable.
The trick is to make sure the money that is designated as belonging to you is not amoung the money that becomes “deleveraged”.
amoung = among
The link below provides a little look into the current situation facing some of China’s younger factory workers this spring.
Of particular note is who the first young man clearly believes is responsible for his woes. We’ve seen the same quote verbatim in articles from the E.U.
Where’s the link, dude? And I don’t mean sausage either!
1930s Lessons..
In the worst of times, which are the best of stocks?
There was no real refuge in the storm; even Benjamin Graham, the great value investor, lost 60%…
…According to CRSP, only one industry had positive returns from 1930 through 1932: logging.
…out of 120 industries, only 13 managed to generate gains from 1930 through 1933…
as for sectors:
The only clear winner: cheap vices. Among the sectors with positive returns were cigarettes, cigars and tobacco, sugar and confectionery products, and fats and oils, which each gained between 1.6% and 7.5% annually.
Pieces of this might be extrapolated to pick likely candidates of tomorrow. Diamond Match Co (Jarden Corp.) is still around..
:
//
online.wsj.com/article/SB123456259622485781.html
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you, Darrell…
Wall Street Journal
* FEBRUARY 15, 2009, 2:10 P.M. ET
Axelrod: Obama Has ‘Solid’ Housing Plan
By JOHN D. MCKINNON
The Obama administration this week will announce a “good, solid” plan with the goal of stemming mortgage foreclosures and putting a floor under falling real estate prices, a senior White House aide said on Sunday.
Speaking on “Fox News Sunday,” senior adviser David Axelrod said the plan that President Barack Obama plans to announce on Wednesday will aim to stem foreclosures, provide immediate help to homeowners who are “right on the edge” of foreclosure, and ultimately help in “raising home values that have been plummeting.”
David Axelrod speaks on “Meet the Press.” Mr. Axelrod pressed the Obama administration’s housing plan on the Sunday morning talk shows.
Mr. Obama plans to unveil his housing plan during a visit to Phoenix. As part of his swing through western states, he is set to stop in Denver Tuesday, when he will sign the $787 billion economic-stimulus plan just passed by Congress.
P.S. Given efforts from on high currently underway to use federal tax monies to keep housing unaffordably priced and to drag out the correction for many years to come instead of letting market forces drive the correction to a near-term bottom, I am resigned to living with the fact that I am unlikely to ever again own a home in my lifetime. I am consoled by my hunch that a likely unintended consequence of the effort to put a floor under home prices is a near-complete choking off of housing market liquidity, which will result in years of contraction in the NAR’s constituency. I look forward to watching the NAR shrivel and hopefully die over the next ten years.
Notice how the goal of housing affordability has been thrown out in favor of further attempts to prop up members of the Megabank, Inc cartel which probably should fail as a consequence of stupid decisions which put them into the boiling pot of stew in which they swim?
Another likely unintended consequence of putting a floor under home prices: The potential to attract a young and vibrant labor force to coastal cities in CA will be undermined by holding prices at levels where young families cannot get in to affordable housing.
“…raising home values that have been plummeting.”
Is there any legal basis for this as a policy objective, or is it OK just because Obama wanna?
This idea to prop up inflated house prices using tax dollars is ludicrous. Apart from being totally UNFAIR, it rewards bad judgement, greed and bad debts.
I’m not going to get to cross about it, because I believe that this problem is too large to correct, period! House prices are way too inflated to be propped up. There’s not enough tax dollars in the country, nor willing Chinese T-bill holders to stop the eventual unraveling.
The government should be careful about stoking the ugly face of inflation. Please tell me whether these typical mortgage debts are sustainable at 7% or 12%.
Jpn Q4 GDP negative 12.7 pct., Blmbrg.
I underestimated how entertaining Maino is. Not that its a high level of entertainment but hes tolberable compared to some of the other new names that have popped up.