March 3, 2009

The Disco Days Are Dead

The Grand Junction Sentinel reports from Colorado. “Things will get better, that’s the mantra in the Grand Valley real estate industry these days. ‘It’s just going to take a little time,’ said Bob Reece of Advanced Title Technology in Grand Junction. ‘The crystal ball question is: How much time?’”

“One thing that seems not to have occurred is an influx of buyers from California hoping to escape the Golden State’s well-documented financial woes, said Erika Doyle, chairwoman-elect of the Grand Junction Area Realtors Association. ‘We’d love for them to come to Colorado,’ Doyle said, ‘the West Slope in particular.’”

“California buyers who sold homes in the early 1980s and invested their cash in new Colorado homes played a significant role in the Grand Valley’s economic recovery. ‘But that’s just not happening here today,’ said Dennis Edson, chairman of Unifirst Mortgage in Grand Junction.”

“While the Grand Valley might now be a buyer’s market, ‘It’ll be a short-term buyer’s market,’ said Eric Perry of Epic Homes. Whereas he has had as many as five homes under construction at once in the recent past, he said he’s down to one or two these days. ‘I’m kind of optimistic that the national economy has turned,’ Perry said. ‘People kind of overreacted.’”

The Arizona Republic. “The financial woes of Bethany Group, one of the Valley’s largest apartment investors, have left several large complexes with overflowing trash bins, threats of utility shutoffs and employees who haven’t been paid for weeks. Property managers in Phoenix, Chandler and Glendale said lenders have started taking over operations of 13 Bethany Group-owned complexes across the Valley.”

“‘We haven’t been paid for weeks. Everyone in the (Irvine, Calif.) corporate office was fired Friday afternoon; we’re just waiting for the bank to come and take over,’ said Robin Enderton, manager for a 376-unit complex in Chandler.”

“Thomas Bade, a commercial real estate agent who negotiated one of the sales to Bethany Group two years ago and is familiar with the others, said the deals made up one of the largest portfolios in state history at a time when real estate prices - and apartment rents - were at their peak. In 2007, Bethany Group acquired 12 properties for $428 million, paying about $82,500 for each apartment unit. They’re worth much less in today’s market, he said.”

“Falling realty values, competition from single-family home rentals and higher vacancies in complexes that catered to illegal immigrants likely contributed to Bethany Group’s problems, Bade said.”

“Timeshare resort operator ILX Inc., stung by plunging timeshare sales and a surge in buyers’ loan delinquencies, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization Monday. The small Phoenix-based company, best known for its Los Abrigados Resort in Sedona, also blamed a recent ‘unanticipated reduction’ in its financing due to instability in the financial markets.”

“Timeshare operators, like hotels, airlines and other travel businesses, are hurting because consumers have less disposable income in this weak economy. That means less money to spend on a timeshare or, in the case of those who already own a week or two at a timeshare resort, to pay off their loan.”

The Deseret News from Utah. “With Utah’s unemployment rate creeping toward 5 percent, the Utah Department of Workforce Services will watch the number of new unemployment claims filed throughout March, as the month will be the bellwether for the rest of 2009. If the claim numbers ease off in the next month or so, the economy will likely recover during the third and fourth quarters of 2009, as economists originally forecasted for Utah.”

“But if claim numbers remain high beyond March, economists will have to revisit the expected depth and duration of the recession, DWS announced Monday.”

“The hardest-hit industry in Utah has been construction, with 14,000 jobs lost between January 2008 and January 2009. The rise in unemployment in construction began in September 2007 with the downturn in residential building. ‘There really isn’t any more to lose in residential,’ said Utah Department of Workforce Services chief economist Mark Knold. ‘It’s kind of bottomed out. It’s the non-residential that we’re worried about.’”

The Salt Lake Tribune from Utah. “Utah’s economy appears to be teetering on the edge, on one side a path leading upward toward recovery from the worldwide recession, on the other a way to a longer, deeper downturn. New claims for unemployment insurance shot up to historic levels in January, with almost 21,000 Utahns seeking benefits, according to a report released Monday. That compares with 8,188 claims filed in January 2008.”

‘Mark Knold, senior economist for the Department of Workforce Services, called that a ’stunning leap.’”

“One other area of concern in the Utah employment picture is commercial construction, which in 2007 and 2008 reached historic heights for the value of approved building permits. But increasing job losses will be seen as projects under way are completed and new ones are put on hold because they don’t make economic sense in times of tight financing, Knold said.”

In Business Las Vegas from Nevada. “Some Las Vegas residential land has no underlying value, and it’s only going to get worse, one land expert says. The slowdown in home construction that saw builders close on 284 homes in January and fewer than 10,000 in 2008 is depressing the market to the point some residential land in essence already has no value once improvements are excluded, says Craig Cherney, director of a private equity land acquisition group that buys raw land and entitles it.”

“Cherney says he’s seeing finished residential lots sell for $25,000, which is a 20 percent to 30 percent discount to the underlying land improvement costs. What that means is that finished lots are trading at a discount that gives it a value of zero, he adds. The underlying land values on many of the nonprime locations for residential land has virtually no value in today’s distressed market, Cherney says.”

“‘Until the valley works off the immense overhand of foreclosures of resale properties, I see no reason why residential land demand would improve or otherwise increase in value,’ Cherney says.”

“In addition, the large public homebuilders only add to the problem with their new-home inventory, which must be discounted and priced to levels that can compete with foreclosures, says Cherney, who calls it the perfect storm.

“‘If you’re not in the marketplace every day, it may be tempting to believe that this is only a temporary problem,’ Cherney says. ‘To the contrary, the land market is far from finished with respect to wringing out the excessive speculation and greed that put us into this situation to begin with.’”

“Cherney says he wouldn’t be surprised by another 50 percent decline from the current market values. Declines of that magnitude are already happening in Phoenix. ‘The last I checked the median sales prices of homes in both Phoenix and Las Vegas were very similar in the mid-$150,000 price range. If houses are more or less selling for the same amount in both markets, why should Vegas finished lots be priced at twice or more of the values trading in Phoenix?’ Cherney says. ‘The answer: They shouldn’t be.’”

The Las Vegas Business Press from Nevada. “A deepening recession and financial-market collapse have led to property foreclosures and distressed sales that drove down vacant valley land values 74 percent in the fourth quarter, Applied Analysis, a Las Vegas-based business advisory firm, reports. Southern Nevada land values averaged $391,877 an acre at the end of 2008 compared with $1.5 million an acre a year earlier — a figure that includes higher-priced Strip transactions. It equals a sales price of $9 per square foot in the fourth quarter, or $25.61 per square foot less than 12 months earlier.”

“‘Although the correction now underway was not unexpected, it has left many investors, developers and lenders in a tenuous position,’ Applied Analysis principal Jeremy Aguero said. ‘There are few signs market conditions will improve significantly during 2009, and we expect an increasing number of vacant land sales to come from distressed and bank-owned transactions.’”

The Las Vegas Sun from Nevada. “The disco days are dead, that much is certain. No more brokers driving Mercedes, no more crane skyline, no more developments popping up around the desert like toast from a toaster.”

“Construction and real estate, Southern Nevada’s second most important industry, have crashed, and there likely will be little building here for several years. Now economists and urban planning experts are beginning to consider how the crash will reshape in innumerable ways Southern Nevada’s physical landscape and the way we live — some frightening, but also some hopeful.”

“Start with the bad: All those half-empty neighborhoods on the edge of town become exurban ghettoes. These neighborhoods share the worst aspects of suburban life, specifically long commutes, big gasoline bills and the absence of urban amenities, while not offering some of the traditional benefits of suburbs such as big yards — the houses in many of the neighborhoods are packed closer together.”

“‘This is the stuff that’s going to be in real trouble down the road,’ said Alan Mallach, a nonresident senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and an urban planning expert.”

“Although these houses and town homes have become affordable compared with their astronomic highs of a few years ago, the type of people who might buy them fear unemployment and might not be able to get a mortgage. These structures, which were built cheaply and quickly, will become inexpensive rental housing, a process that seems to have already begun. Next up, landlords begin accepting low-income Section 8 vouchers, Mallach said.”

“First-time homebuyers in particular are well-positioned in the current market, as median home prices have declined 48 percent and continue to fall. The reality, however, is that with 10 percent of Las Vegas area homes in foreclosure, we are quickly becoming a city of renters.”

“But that’s not such a bad thing, according to the social theorist Richard Florida, who notes in a recent Atlantic piece that in the 1950s and 1960s Americans were twice as likely to move as they were last year. The obsession with homeownership, spurred on by government policy, has made us too rooted, Florida argues.”

“Nimble renters — that’s us, Las Vegas — can avoid long periods of unemployment because they can pick up and move. There is a downside, of course: Renters tend to be less invested in their neighborhoods.”

“As urban areas continue to grow, exurban developments offer untenable commutes and gasoline bills. These new developments soon won’t be new and will have to undergo expensive maintenance of sewers, roads and other utilities and infrastructure. In other words, Las Vegas got lucky. The crash has ended the sprawl, and just in time.”

“Rory Reid, chairman of the Clark County Commission, said policymakers realized the sprawl pattern was foolhardy some time ago and had begun to encourage mixed-use, urban development, only to see the recession kill a number of promising projects. ‘I think if there’s a silver lining in the economic travail it’s that we can be thoughtful about how to plan for the future,’ Reid said.”

“As is now abundantly clear, our one-dimensional economy leaves us vulnerable to tourism recessions. The city had come to rely on construction and development as its second most important industry. But that’s finished, at least for some time.”

“‘We need to replace that economy,’ said Keith Schwer, a UNLV economist who has examined the real estate market here in detail.”

“But there’s a hopeful upside, as noted by Senate Majority Leader Steven Horsford, the Las Vegas Democrat: Without the constant banging of hammer on nail, Southern Nevada can use the silence to think about what it wants to be. ‘Because of the downturn, the foreclosures, yes it’s a crisis, but it’s created an opportunity for us to rethink what our city is and what it can be for everyone.’”




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112 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-03 11:52:35

‘finished lots are trading at a discount that gives it a value of zero’

Not gonna happen, we are already there. Who’s dreaming now?

I’ll say it again; if this part of the west wants to get back on its feet, free up the land! Why should the BLM and various state bodies be sitting on millions of acres waiting for higher prices when people in this town can barely afford rent?

It’s also sad to see Sedona’s timeshare big shot going down, but the town should never have allowed these guys to throw their weight around. All of northern Arizona needs an economy based on some kind of productive output. What is the one thing we have? Lots of land.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-03 12:15:23

Here are two productive output ideas for the West. And, since I’m in Arizona, they’re specific to my adopted state:

1. Solar energy research and development. And manufacturing.
2. Water conservation research and development. And the manufacture of equipment used in water harvesting and conservation.

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-03 12:23:48

Any of those things would benefit from cheaper land and the resulting lower operating costs.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-03 13:37:05

amen.

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Comment by Michael Fink
2009-03-03 12:55:39

Said it about 100 times, land in most areas of this country has a value of about 0. There’s more supply they you could use up in 10 lifetimes. The only value in most land is the farming value, or the cost to make it ready for development.

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-03 16:04:14

Michael Fink,

And… since I’ve been looking at some property in Southern Oregon, ‘that’ is about what I have been willing to pay? Not to say we haven’t had blips or bubbles in ag. land but I get your point.

I just want some southern exposure ( view optional ) for staying out of the rain in Oct. & May. I’d say about 5 grand for 5 acres sounds about right.

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-03 13:35:56

Bbbbut Ben, you also have to factor in H2O.
Look at the lack of it.
Look at the dams. The ring around the sides is so high up now..or the water is so low.
We have lots of land in the usa but we also waste water like there is no tomorrow.
Blm land is being traded to big time developers who don’t give a squat what or how it affects the surrounding neighborhoods. In Whitewater, the entryway to Palm Springs, Mary Bono is working hard to hand over blm land to trade for re that will put a prison right in the entry to the shangrila of the desert, Palm Springs. Entry point from LA hwy 10 - that could make for a bad first impression of a tourism industry that is suffering even during high season,
first you see the Morongo casino, then just ahead, they want to build a massive prison to handle the overflow. By the way, the only
business that is growing is privately own/built prisons here in the USA.
That tells us a couple of things..

 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-03 13:57:17

“Start with the bad: All those half-empty neighborhoods on the edge of town become exurban ghettoes. These neighborhoods share the worst aspects of suburban life, specifically long commutes, big gasoline bills and the absence of urban amenities, while not offering some of the traditional benefits of suburbs such as big yards — the houses in many of the neighborhoods are packed closer together.”

You FORGOT that Las Vegas is only 135 short miles from DEATH VALLEY, CA and I REMEMBER one those places has a lot of lights, hookers and hustlers…but they are both HOT as HELL ! :)

 
Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 14:10:45

Who wants the land in AZ, though? There’s not enough water out there to support the current population. Maybe I shouldn’t be treading on an AZ thread, but that’s what I’ve always thought about AZ and NV.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-03 16:39:59

Big V, you speak the w-word that our state’s leaders tread very gingerly around. And you speak the truth about it too.

 
Comment by cashedin05
2009-03-04 00:02:00

This is where Phoenix gets the majority of its water. The Salt River Project. We are sitting at close to 100% in the main reservoirs.

http://www.srpwater.com/dwr/report.asp?dt=3/01/2009

 
 
Comment by aNYCdj
2009-03-03 17:56:05

Ben:

I remember what a year or two ago some old man had a small plot of land 2 blocks from the Vegas strip and some big company wanted to build a high rise and he was the last holdout….with his run down shack in the picture and turned down a million dollars for it…

What ever happened to him?

Comment by Houston Observer
2009-03-03 19:36:50

Is it one of these guys?

 
 
Comment by ZionRenter
2009-03-03 19:22:00

Here in southern Utah (st George) I call all the empty home lots around town as tumble weed nurseries. The coolaid was drank deep here and still holds. We have a population of 60% over 55.

 
 
Comment by DennisN
2009-03-03 12:48:39

“higher vacancies in complexes that catered to illegal immigrants likely contributed to Bethany Group’s problems”

Ah….I really hope then that Bethany Group doesn’t get government bailout funds.

How on earth could you “cater” to illegal aliens? Run ads in the newspaper saying “illegal aliens come on down”? Put up billboards around town?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-03 13:10:40

Here’s how they did it:

1. Locate their complexes in parts of town where Spanish is the predominant language.
2. Advertise heavily in Spanish language media.

Same thing was done here in Tucson. The same hue and cry went up after the clientele headed back to Mexico.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 13:16:04

Dennis:
How do you cater to them?
Pull up a stool, it’s a long story here in California.
Any nation that ceases to secure its borders ceases to be a nation at all.

Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 14:06:48

Thank you, milkcrate. I was trying to explain this the other night in Vegas, but I couldn’t get through to people. Next time I’m going to come prepared with note cards that I can pull out and read from. One of them will say “A nation that fails to secure its borders ceases to be a nation at all”. Haha, pour ‘em strong barkeep, I have my secret alcohol-proof intellectual weapon in tow. I am invincible now.

Comment by bink
2009-03-03 15:39:48

I think our discussion in Vegas had more to do with differences between Mexican immigrants and those from other countries and generations.

Now where did I put my frogs?

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Comment by hd74man
2009-03-03 19:13:04

RE: Now where did I put my frogs?

OlyGirlie took’em to keep the pink pony company.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by polly
2009-03-03 12:48:52

‘I think if there’s a silver lining in the economic travail it’s that we can be thoughtful about how to plan for the future,’ Reid said.”

He thinks there is going to be money to pay urban planners in the immediate future?

Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 13:23:00

Agreed. Paying urban planners is going to be given the same priority as wiring Centralia, Okla., with free broadband.
For Googling geographers, Centralia is a ghost town. Might not be on maps anymore.

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-03 16:08:12

milkcrate,

Making the name “Centralia” all that more comical.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-03-03 17:37:54

Or the town of “Democrat” in Idaho.

Idaho’s town of Democrat is a ghost town, on the dirt road to Whiskey Mountain….

 
 
 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-03-03 12:56:52

he get’s a raise and to keep his job
‘Mark Knold, senior economist for the Department of Workforce Services

swell

Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 13:26:12

We need a thread on functions of government we don’t need. I’ll start:
U.S. Department of Energy (which never drilled a single barrel of oil).

Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 13:30:23

County agriculture departments.

Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 13:33:08

Any creation of NAFTA.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-03 13:38:43

CAFTA.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-03 14:18:22

Anything that doesn’t do with the defense of citizens or their property against domestic and/or foreign attack.

And since I’m not a strict libertarian, I guess I’ll add public education - but only if the teachers and support personnel get stripped of their absurd gold-plated benefits.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-03 14:19:25

Anything that doesn’t have to do with the defense of citizens or their property against domestic and/or foreign attack.

And since I’m not a strict libertarian, I guess I’ll add public education - but only if the teachers and support personnel get stripped of their absurd gold-plated benefits.

 
Comment by silverback1011
2009-03-04 05:26:08

Only if you get stripped of your benefits, friend, only if you get stripped of yours. Remember, you have to have some incentive to make teachers stay in the classrooms teaching today’s little ghetto monsters. Just my opinion.

 
 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 14:01:10

I don’t think their purpose ever was to drill oil. I think they are supposed to coordinate energy research and development. Oil companies can be left to drill oil on their own.

Comment by Bad Chile
2009-03-03 17:36:48

The DoE was created to incorporate the former AEC - Atomic Energy Comission.

The DoE administers all the national laboratories, including those who have as part of their mission reasearch into nuclear weapons.

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Comment by DennisN
2009-03-03 17:40:10

Which begs the question - why isn’t DOE subsumed into DOD?

 
 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-03 14:17:46

The Central Intelligence Agency.(CIA)

That Circus Clown outfit couldn’t FIND their own A$$E$ with a roadmap, a flashlight and their own 1.2 Trillion Dollar secret “Black Budget”! :)

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-03 16:27:47

Military Intelligence = Jumbo Shrimp

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Comment by TheMightyQuinn
2009-03-03 14:59:32

U.S. Department of Education

 
 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-03 12:58:27

“Timeshare resort operator ILX Inc., stung by plunging timeshare sales and a surge in buyers’ loan delinquencies, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization Monday”.

I wonder if this is the one that runs the TV ads, saying they have thousands of buyers just waiting to “snap” up your timeshare?

Another one that needs to go away is the Direct Buy commercial with the guy that says, he’ll never be rich and Direct Buy has allowed him to live “beyond” his means!

Comment by goedeck
2009-03-03 14:13:27

Taht Direct Buy think costs like $4000 to be a “member.”

 
 
Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-03 13:07:13

Off topic I know, but are any of you listening to Geithner’s “testimony” before Congress? He is as artful a dodger and obfuscator as any secretary of any administration we’ve had in the past.

One congresscritter asked what metrics would be used to determine the recession was over so various tax increases, including cap-and-trade, could be initiated. He never named even one, but just kept repeating that every economist expects the recession will be over by 2011. To me that means cap-and-trade and the other increases will start in 2011 regardless of the state of the economy.

We are so screwed.

Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 13:58:28

What is cap and trade?

Comment by Julius
2009-03-03 14:21:25

Gov’t caps the total amount of some pollutant (usually CO2) that can be emitted by all users in a given year. Then, “credits” allowing a certain amount of pollution to be released are issued to users who can then trade the credits with other users to suit their needs.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 14:24:26

In my house, it is what happens when the kiddo decides she is too old for a toothpaste that has a likeness of Bugs Bunny on it and wants the Colgate from the parents’ bathroom.
Rather than discuss the merits of the cleaning products, and how they are likely identical save for the packaging, this is what we do:
Cap and trade. Saves a lot of time.

(On serious note, I could learn from an answer to your query as well…)

 
Comment by az_lender
2009-03-03 17:34:25

A major feature of “cap and trade” is that polluters will pay for permits to over-pollute…and then pass along this cost to consumers. So it’s mainly that the cost (to all of us) of using carbon-based energy will rise, relatively to other costs of living. Just part of the Reinflation strategy, really.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-03 18:39:32

Agreed.

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Comment by speedingpullet
2009-03-03 19:43:12

Just watched the CEO of Duke Energy say the same thing on Rachel Maddow.

Then, he pointed out that States set the price of energy, not the energy companies.

So, call me confused - if the State sets the price of energy, and energy companies have to do cap and trade - how will this get passed on to the consumer?

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Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-03 14:39:55

I like Obama, but I don’t like Geithner because he’s more loyal to the Wall Streeters than he is to the President. For all of his obfuscation he’s not as hypocritical as Paulson was, but give him time.

PB had some good reasons why the housing market is not a very good proxy for the bottom but I think it’s the best we’ve got, from what I have been reading. However, as the economy deteriorates, there will be a lag that could potentially last years.

But I don’t blame anyone for not knowing when this will end, especially in front of a national audience. That is being unrealistic.

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-03 15:22:21

Count me as another liker of Obama, but a non-liker of Geithner. IMHO, Obama should have picked Richard Fisher (from the Dallas Fed).

Comment by SaladSD
2009-03-03 16:53:57

Why did everyone gush when Obama first picked Geithner? As I recall, all the major media, including the WSJ, praised his selection because they felt he’d have a handle on all that ails us. Now he’s lambasted for being an insider beholden to Wall Street. All I can think is that our economic situation is really, really bad and he’s just dancing on hot coals.

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Comment by bangkokobserver
2009-03-03 17:35:43

Despite his faults, Jim Cramer railed against picking Geitner when Geitner was only a name on the possiblities list. He ranted ad naseum about what a mistake Geitner would be.

 
Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 19:07:50

Oh, well if Crammer hates him, then I love him.

I especially like the fact that he has no eyebrows. I feel an affinity with him.

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-03-03 17:09:29

Obama HAD to pick Geithner, meaning, he didn’t really pick him at all. OTOH, Obama himself was “picked”. We just got the illusion that he was voted for.

The light bulbs should be going on as to who really runs the country. But I guess not.

There are times when I do like Bammy. I hope he follows through on the Bush investigations.

Comment by rms
2009-03-03 21:54:01

“Obama HAD to pick Geithner, meaning, he didn’t really pick him at all. OTOH, Obama himself was “picked”. We just got the illusion that he was voted for.

The light bulbs should be going on as to who really runs the country. But I guess not.”

Coming in loud and clear, Palm!

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Comment by SaladSD
2009-03-03 22:43:20

Um, what on earth do you mean Omaba was “picked”. Did you not witness the meltdown when it became clear that Hillary’s campaign was disembling? i took a lot of heat for supporting Obama early on, since conventional wisdom was that he didn’t have a chance, and Hillary was the de facto candidate.

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Comment by Blano
2009-03-03 13:09:37

“With Utah’s unemployment rate creeping toward 5 percent,…..”

FIVE percent??? That’s it??? Sounds like nirvana.

Comment by In Colorado
2009-03-03 13:31:09

Keep in mind that’s the “cooked” unemployment rate. We have similar numbers out here, yet when a new Embassy Suites opened in Loveland almost 2000 people showed up for the mostly $10/hr jobs being offered.

We all know now that when they say “5%” its really 10%. Heck, even when the official rate was about 3% there were always plenty of applicants for jobs.

 
Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 13:39:06

Must feel like the End Times out there.
We’re over 16 percent here.
Case in point: Lance Armstrong and his bike crew raced through Clovis on a recent weekday afternoon. Hundreds of able-bodied men and women lined the street three deep is some parts. It was not a national holiday.
Manufacturing valves? Laying pipe? Nursing the sick? What?
Watching a man ride a bank.
Now, that’s some output.

Comment by Namehasbeenchangedtoprotectdainnocent
2009-03-03 13:57:34

Didn’t he get one of his high $ bikes stolen in CA too? Sign of the times!

 
Comment by sleepless_near_seattle
2009-03-03 14:43:22

Chuckle. This reminds me of being in the gym on treadmill last night. Woman gets on machine in front of me and asks everyone if she can change the channel on TV in front of her.

TV was showing Larry King interviewing Ben Stein, Ed Schulz, Dave Ramsay and some RE guy on the “crisis.” I didn’t care since I was listening to interview on headphones and not really watching while running.

She changes to some tabloid TMZ or Access Hollywood show. Then she pulls out US Weekly and starts reading as well! A year from now she’ll be wondering what went wrong and asking govy for a handout.

I do give her props for trying to work off the excess she had obviously acquired during the boom times, though…even if she was basically leaning on the machine. People are sooo lazy, both physically and mentally…

 
Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-03 15:27:43

I live, eat, drink, and sleep bicycling. To the point that one of the rooms in this house is called The Bike Room. (Guess what I keep there?)

But there’s no way on this green earth that I’d take time off to go see Lance Armstrong. Sorry, but he reminds me too much of those racer-gawds who used to come strutting into the bike shop where I used to work.

We hated those #$%^*! people. To the point where we were tempted to “accidentally” drop a tool on their bikes while we were working on them.

Ahhh, those were the days.

 
Comment by American_Screamer
2009-03-03 16:38:28

Did you really mean to say “bank” instead of “bike”? How Fruedian?

Comment by Arizona Slim
2009-03-03 16:41:03

You dissin’ my bikes by comparing them to a *bank*? The nerve!

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Comment by poormancometh
2009-03-03 13:39:46

Not sure this applies to housing, it does apply to Utah and nirvana, but an article headline on Salt Lake Tribune “Utah is No. 1 - for online pornography consumption”

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-03 14:07:07

Christianity: do as I say, not as I do.

Clinton was a Southern Baptist.

Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 14:30:50

Uh, point that podium at another board, please.
Thank you.

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Comment by Julius
2009-03-03 14:33:42

Give him a break, my man - he’s telling the truth.

 
 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-03-03 16:25:06

There are many who would take exception at labelling the LDS as “Christians”, insisting that they are a different religion altogether that just happens to use the same names for their deities.

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Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-04 19:27:18

They’re all batsh1t insane. Sorry, that’s four pints of IPA talking.

Bad MrBubble!

 
 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-03-03 17:11:18

“Utah is No. 1 - for online pornography consumption”

SHHHHHH! You’ll wake up Olygal.

Comment by mikey
2009-03-03 17:22:38

Yeah…I think Olygal was held as a captive by those Utah people as a little kid and LOOK how she turned out ;)

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Comment by tresho
2009-03-03 18:46:52

I bought a button in Berkeley in 1967 which said “LSD did this to me” Has anyone ever seen one which says “LDS did this to me”?

 
 
 
 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-03-03 14:19:45

Relatively good employment numbers have certainly helped the “it’s different here!” mantra hold on a bit longer in SL.

But I think we’re starting the cliff dive. Lots of new condo buildings are sitting around, mostly unoccupied, because the buyers at $200+/sq ft. have evaporated. Others condo construction projects appear to us to be stopped dead in their tracks.

Yeah, it is different here, in that condos are even more unpopular than most cities because of the larger average family sizes. New ones just keep coming on line, though.

 
 
Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 13:56:00

Seriously, what do you do when you find out your grandma still has money invested in mutual funds? She thinks mutual funds aren’t stocks. There’s nothing you can do, is there? Old people can’t be reasoned with, especially not grandmas. Especially not grandmas with financial “guys” that are associated with old friends.

Comment by Mo Money
2009-03-03 14:10:27

How about showing her the last statement where she has lost 48% ?

Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 14:16:25

She won’t let me look at anything. Her “guy” knows what he’s doing. She was going to take all her money out with the first bank run because she remembers the Great Depression, but The Guy put all these ideas in her head about rallies and what not. It’s just annoying. How much you wanna bet nobody listens to me after she dies and her estate has to be dealt with? They will sell her condo and stocks at the bottom, then use the money to purchase time shares and a new amplifier. No one ever listens to me, I swear.

Comment by Julius
2009-03-03 14:30:03

I’m amazed at how many old people are like this. My grandmother-in-law has been buying Fords her entire life from some lowlife car salesman she knew in high school. Why? She honestly thinks he’d never let her down because “she’s known him for so long”. But the deals she’s gotten from this jerk have been lousy and the Fords themselves tend to be complete garbage.

All this talk of financial henchmen “taking advantage of the elderly” is largely hype as far as I’m concerned. FAR too many old people don’t seem to bother to check up on anything when they’re dealing with their finances, and then they often end up defending the very people who have scalped them.

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Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 14:33:17

Dude, she’s an old lady. She doesn’t do math. That’s what grandpas are for, but they die. I just don’t understand why she doesn’t LISTEN TO ME.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-03 14:35:41

Half the time the grandpas don’t “do the math” either, it seems

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-03 14:54:01

So when does getting “top dollar” from a customer cross the line to taking advantage of their naïveté?

I think the elderly are especially vulnerable because they don’t have the opportunity to recover from their mistakes, and because of frequent health limitations their judgment can be impaired to a variable degree. They also tend to be more trusting of scammers for psychological reasons (loneliness, fear, self-doubt).

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-03-03 14:33:26

LOL!

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Comment by milkcrate
2009-03-03 14:15:20

Big:
My daughter’s grandma may be an exception to your rule. She shops for CD rates, owns no mutual funds, and can quiz her accountant on why the amount she is being taxed on is different than the amount she received. The accountant was going to get back to her, suspecting hidden fees somewhere.
But she may be different than many grannies. :)

Comment by X-GSfixer
2009-03-03 14:59:48

In my experience, the most gullible people I’ve every seen, and the biggest pains in the A$$es I’ve ever seen are little old ladies. It’s a crapshoot.

Comment by In Montana
2009-03-03 15:47:46

When they were growing up, the point was to be Sweet, not Smart.

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Comment by az_lender
2009-03-03 17:40:57

All you can do is tell her that if she goes broke AND has not listened to your advice, you will not bail her out.

Comment by Big V
2009-03-03 19:12:23

She has enough cash to last her until she dies. But I was kinda hoping the rest of it wouldn’t be forfeited to the market, ya know.

 
 
 
Comment by Neil
2009-03-03 14:15:42

The obsession with homeownership, spurred on by government policy, has made us too rooted, Florida argues.”

lol. I recall those discussions here years ago.
The ‘ownership society’ is going to uproot too much.

Got Popcorn?
Neil

 
Comment by Justathought
2009-03-03 14:43:57

‘I’m kind of optimistic that the national economy has turned,’ Perry said. ‘People kind of overreacted.’

Are we on the same planet?

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-03 14:56:28

He’s on the same planet as Phil Gramm.

 
Comment by In Colorado
2009-03-03 16:37:49

Are we on the same planet?

Ya gotta love these deluded bozos. There is a guy here at the office who things the same way, and he’s an Engineer!

 
Comment by Next Shoe To Drop
2009-03-03 19:54:35

‘I’m kind of optimistic that the national economy has turned,’ Perry said. ‘People kind of overreacted.’

Maybe it means he’s shorting everything on the way down, and that it went up way too much before it ‘turned’. :-D

Comment by SaladSD
2009-03-03 22:47:08

Usually, if you say something has turned, like meat, it’s spoiled. Or you’re a vampire. Or a terrorist.

 
 
Comment by rms
2009-03-03 22:04:05

They’re hyping the second derivative, the inflection point. The last issue of The Economist had a piece about it. Without a calculus background the discussion means little.

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-03 15:14:58

OT:

There’s a very poorly placed electric utility pole on my property that takes up too much space to expand parking for me and my rental unit (trust me-weird property line).

Anyway, I contacted the local utility and they want $14,000 dollars to move the pole 15 feet to a more reasonable location. At what I am looking to charge for my rental, it would take almost 2 years to recover the cost. Since I am not allowed to touch their property myself because of a pre-existing easement, I have no choice but to pay them or live (quite unhappily) with it.

I’m just wondering if this is a complete scam, or do construction costs justify this? Also, I think that while construction and engineering costs will go down with the housing market in the next few years, a perverse cost structure from a monopolistic utility might not.

Unfortunately, I feel like it is something that I will need to do eventually because it really harms the property from a usability and esthetic point of view. I’m willing to wait as long as I know that costs would eventually drop…or should I just suck it up and git ‘er done, because it would make the rental unit much more appealing and the property feel not so claustrophobic and crowded if I took care of it this summer.

Any insight is appreciated.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-03 15:19:07

well, actually it would take a year to recover the cost, but i’m factoring in all the other renovations that i want to have done to the property in the next year, which would cost the same amount.

 
Comment by Peterpaul
2009-03-03 15:24:53

have someone run a car into it…

preferably a tenant with NO assets.

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-03 16:21:21

Peterpaul,

See my post below, you’re not far off. Stress that it could well become a liability for ‘them’ and it changes the whole tone of the conversation!

 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-03 17:02:56

Har, I wish!

 
 
Comment by Mo Money
2009-03-03 15:39:20

Considering how much it costs to replace a knocked down traffic signal I’d say it was not out of line, and two year payback is nothing.

Comment by DinOR
2009-03-03 16:17:37

NoSingleOne,

Had an almost identical scenario a few years back. Here’s how I played it. I had an inspector come out and look at the old temp. pole that was put up when our old property had a mobile on it. Then I showed him how the power line dangled dangerously low, especially when delivery trucks etc. came in.

Huffs, walks off and gets back in truck and drives off. Six months later: Call for -another- inspector. Rinse, lather, repeat. 2 years later I finally… get an inspector out that agrees, 2 weeks later I get a brand new power pole installed for free! ( Also helps if you “inquire” as to whether they can put a security light on the pole, they LOVE that! ) FWIW.

Comment by SaladSD
2009-03-03 17:01:21

See, here’s a case of a happy taxpayer! You got a “free” power pole. I’m not begruging you by any means, just making the point that everyone whines about paying taxes and doesn’t acknowledge the day to day stuff that these taxes pay for…

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Comment by DinOR
2009-03-03 17:11:03

Utilities ( while often taxed ) are a -seperate- issue. And in a case where a ‘meter’ is installed, you’re only paying for that which YOU use.

But I get your meaning, I couldn’t sleep last night and wound up watching re-runs of My Name Is Earl too!

 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-03 17:09:39

Lol, well it already has a security light on it, burnt out and sort of irrelevant anyway in the middle of my yard. I will study the situation but I’m not good at manufactured outrage as a manipulating tool (wish I was still with my ex for that one).

I’ll most likely suck it up and pay for it, if that’s the typical charge. I just thought it sounded outrageous for some reason.

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Comment by Justathought
2009-03-03 16:20:19

“looking to charge” ????

Is it already leased? For 2 years? Consider getting the rental agreement first …. then move the pole.

Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-03 17:11:24

I’m quite sure I’ll be able to rent the unit, given the location and the local rental market…but good point that I can’t count on the exact income until I actually get a lease signed.

 
 
Comment by Rancher
2009-03-03 17:55:25

Christians In Action

 
 
Comment by DinOR
2009-03-03 16:25:18

hd74man,

( OT music content )

I was so heartened to read about your once in a lifetime experience seeing Eric Burden perform. For our little band, having 350 people show up would be a Blow Out! Yet that’s the very ambience we attempt to create. After decades of everything from disco to “arena rock” the gratitude from our listeners is beyond belief.

Thanks for affirming what we’ve long suspected!

Comment by hd74man
2009-03-03 19:30:05

RE: the gratitude from our listeners is beyond belief.

The circle grows smaller every day, Din/OR.

It’s kinda of a scarey thing, really.

Just saw Virgin Records is closing all their US stores because they are bein’ hurt so bad by the net.

The iPod thing puzzles me greatly. I mean you load one of these gizmo’s with 10,000 song and so then WTF do you have?

Sure the fook ain’t a hard copy of “Live Yardbirds”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kWexhbYaOY

(check out the go-go girls…all Grammies now-sigh)

Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-03-03 23:42:08

What’s an ipod? Is that the thingy that all these people have hanging off their arms at the gym? They spend more time fiddling with the damn thing than they do working out.

I’m still waiting to see one of them choke themselves with the earpiece cord.

 
 
 
Comment by az_lender
2009-03-03 17:48:31

Re Las Vegas: I know a bunch of you were just there a few weeks ago, but here’s my tidbit anyway. Was just there this weekend. Stayed with my friend and her retired-teacher husband. They had a perfectly OK house but jumped to buy a Better one a couple of years ago, without first selling the one that has no view. The no-view house has been on the market two years, unoccupied. They are thinking of renting it out. It’s paid for, but there are still taxes, insurance, and the HOA. They compensate by buying store brands now instead of name brands. They don’t seem to realize how many years it might take for the nominal price of the extra house to recover. None of my business, they’re not in any big trouble.

Comment by Next Shoe To Drop
2009-03-03 20:11:17

“The no-view house has been on the market two years, unoccupied. They are thinking of renting it out. It’s paid for, but there are still taxes, insurance, and the HOA.”

2 years without any kind of income on the property?!? You’d think after just 3mos they’d get a little antsy and lower that puppy to offload it. That’s like putting my 97 Saturn up for sale and asking $20k — pretty sure after a couple of weeks I’d figure out nobody will pay that much and I’d lower the freakin’ price. Geez, at least rent the place out and get some cash flow from the joint.

 
 
Comment by awaiting wipeout
2009-03-03 19:09:09

Zillow Vs. Realtor.com Price
I looked up our former residence tract (same model) to see what both were showing for a current price for our oversized Garage Mahal in Ventura County-So Ca.

Realtor.com $750K
Zillow.com $841.5K

The same model home we sold,has been on the market for a l o n g time. I thought this was price difference was very telling. At the bubble peak, our former residence was at $1.2M.

 
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