What Are The Consequences Of Walking Away?
I asked a reader if I could use her email as a topic. An edited version. “RE: MY Housing Crisis - Can I walk away? Dear Ben, I’m just a disabled WF who got scammed by a person who showed up at my door after I pissed off his telemarketer by saying no and hanging up. She called back and baffled me with BS until a point I said ‘yes, but,’ and told me I would be contacted. I expected a phone call. He showed up at my door. I was trying to get out of an adj rate loan that I couldn’t afford, and after he told me I could make the minimum payment, and from the money I saved, throw $3-4000 at the loan at the end of the year, I’d be amortized.”
“Yes, I don’t know money. I worked for SBC/ATT for 25 years operator @$82.50 a week, then as an installer in late 60’s: then digital comm tech, what with the extra hours and premium for being senior, was making about (sorry, hard to remember) close to $48,000 a year in the early nineties. This was after crushing my spine, breaking my knee/ankle/arm in 72, somehow severed a rotator cuff tendon-probably trying to keep up with gardening-oh yeah, breast cancer in ‘93. This was all before being diagnosed, with an immune system disease. I also had a post radiation reaction.”
“Most people think disability retirees are just working the system. My credit score at this time was about 780, last may it was 802, but i’ve been looking for someplace to go, a mobile at least. I was sold a sub-prime loan-before I knew the term, because my income was too low, though I have a good record of paying my bills. I spent all my savings putting lipstick on a pig (sorry,house) due to advice from one realtor, and threats from another (next door neighbor). A third, who told me to stop paying my mtge and save for another place, an atty gave me the same advice-she is working with apx 150 clients from East Palo Alto. I make myself sick, kicking myself in the butt for my stupidity. But I grew up on AFDC, thought having a house was an investment, and listened to the wrong people. I was 10ft tall and bulletproof. Tore myself up trying to keep the house together, and now find myself underwater, not only because of the economy, but because I never had the house inspected. I could afford it! was all I was thinking, and it would give me a tax writeoff. But my foundation needs work, and they said termites and maybe mold.”
“So, I’m not a speculator, and when I bought the house I could afford it, but find that all of a sudden I’m OLD, and a target for every well educated greedy, (IT’S LEGAL!) making $$$ off others upright-walking scam artist within the state. When the Ameriquest person was trying to sell me this GREAT WORLD loan product, a non-profit, who, believe me, makes sure your income meets certain limits (and GUESS WHO WAS MY SPONSOR?)…I called my sponsor at world and was told it was a great product for someone like me, fixed income and all. I GET SO ANGRY AT ALL THE TALKING HEADS WHO SAY IT WAS PEOPLE BUYING HOUSES THEY COULD NEVER AFFORD.”
“And all the non-tractors who took the money and walked away, after starting the job, whom I, stupid person, thought If I helped them out of their problem, they would do the job they contracted
for. Us non-college educated people, who didn’t have parental role models to watch invest and save are TARGETS. The classes teaching people about loans and investing are a bit late, no?”
“Since this is your blog: I”M WONDERING WHAT ARE THE FEES AND CONSEQUENCES OF WALKING AWAY, PLEASE REALLY. Since I can’t believe atty’s and realtors that told me 4 months ago to not pay my mtge. Being disabled and having no family, I was going to try to get a rental in the 45 days I have before my grace period ends and my FICO hoses, but after watching C-SPAN and reading your blog, trying to find out, I don’t know. It’s gonna be hard for me to be on the street, humiliating to have my credit score hosed, though I plan from now on to save and then buy, like in olden times.”
“I’ll suck it up, and Father has kept a roof over my head a long time now. But when I see ladies older than me wandering around the Grocery Outlet, trying to find food that they can afford. And upper middle classes with new cars starting to shop at the same overstock canned goods store…the times they are a’ changin. Thanks for listening.”
I’m headed out to the California border (and back), so I’ll check in today when I can. Please keep these comments constructive.
OT b..b..but anyhoo…
Scandal at Treasury: Official Quits Amidst Fraud Scandal
The man at the center of a fraud scandal at the Treasury Department has been allowed to quietly quit and retire from his job as a government regulator, despite allegations that he allowed a bank to falsify financial records and amidst outcries from investigators who say the case shows how cozy government regulators have become with the banks and savings and loans they are supposed to be checking on
This regulator guy allowed IndyMac to cook the books and has a backround of doing this way back to old days the Savings and Loans Scandals
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Economy/story?id=7009596&page=1
The guy must have a lot of dirt on a lot of people to be allowed to walk away. With his pension intact!
Gawd, this story is tragic (assuming it’s as stated which is rarely the case.)
However, it is typical. And sad. And typically sad.
Wasn’t there a “walk away” service that gave advice for a fixed amount? I think she would benefit from it.
I am going to get flamed for saying this, but some people relish pain and do everything they can to bring pain upon themselves.
This poster sound like one of these people.
No, it sounds like a lot of people that never realize that some day they will get old and sic.
I had a co-worker (early 20s) the other day make the comment that I go to the dentist a lot. I said I go twice a year for cleaning, xray, etc. He told he hadn’t been in 6 years. He is well educated from a top notch college. He also bought a house on a ARM.
He is well educated from a top notch college. He also bought a house on a ARM.
And here we go again!
It’s not the responsibility of colleges to teach common sense. Parents need to do their jobs and he sooner you start the easier it is. It’s a little crazy IMHO to turn your kid over to a college at 18 and expect them to teach common sense.
LOL! Yeah, otherwise how would we expect them to even find the campus? Good point.
Fantastic point. Further, those claiming they learned nothing at college, shouldn’t blame the college for such a wasted opportunity, but themselves.
At college, like most things in life, you get out of it what you put in.
My college never minded if I saw a dentist or even brushed my teeth. My friends and girlfriends did, though.
Problem with top-notch colleges. They may teach Chaucer, but they don’t teach a shred of common sense.
You can’t teach common sense. That would be the problem.
Heck, as posited on this blog, you can’t even teach something as basic as long division or the meaning of deflation.
That’s why some children of stellar f*ckups end up as business geniuses and vice versa.
Surely they also teach Dickens?
“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.”
Even if you never learn anything else about budgeting and finances, heeding these timeless words will seldom steer you wrong, and will certainly prevent the sort of colossal blunders detailed in the above letter.
No, they don’t teach Chaucer. They teach you not to think for yourself and to calmly accept your status as a consumer, rather than a citizen with obligations and responsibilities. Instead of teaching how debt can turn a society into a population of wage slaves, they tout permament growth and Ponzi schemes as the way to riches and success.
Dred
No kidding, during the 4 years I spent at the U of AZ 10 years ago the only thing I learned how to do was shotgun a coors light. If not for my internship at IBM I would have made it through that entire period of my life not having learned a thing.
I’m still a consumer/wage slave, but we don’t really get a choice today do we?
‘They may teach Chaucer, but they don’t teach a shred of common sense.’
That’s not the best analogy, because Chaucer is very common sensey. Supremely so, really. I think his tales show incredible understanding of what it is to be human, the drama of being us, worthy of mockery and sympathy equally, just silly dingles stumping along together, doing the best we can, full of whims and foibles and idiot ideas, yes, but with grace and dignity and humor as well. Ahhh, certainly too much to jabber on about …anyway, you should pick someone who wrote useless stuff as an example, and not Chaucer.
I remember when I first encountered Canterbury Tales. It was in my grandma’s basement in Provo, Utarr, and I was quite young. I was looking for a Fu Manchu book I might have overlooked among my uncle Dan’s books. (Fu Manchu was a formative influence in my life, which may explain some things. ) Anyway, I found a really old copy of Canterbury tales jammed in some nook, all mildewed and falling apart and with a few mouse nibbles on the edges, and read that. Then I read it again.
And as a result I now, to this very day, enjoy the scent of mildew wafting up to my nostrils from powdery yellow tomes when I carefully turn shedding, flaky pages. It’s like incense. It’s the ’smell of good stories’ incense.
Oh, yeah, but my point was: This poor old lady! Sad! Assuming, as Fasty says, that her story is entirely accurate, why, she really IS a ‘victim’, and I regret the fact that those who preyed upon her cannot easily be found and minced up into portions.
I prefer to read the classics. In fact most of the books I own fall in that catagory. The fault my be mine, but I can’t stay interested in many of the books that have come out in the last 20 or so years.
Then you just haven’t read the “right” books that came out in the last 20 years.
I read the Canterbury Tales, English Lit, in high school. I loved the stories. My mom had to sign a permission slip before I could read the book. At the time the book was considered too racy and bawdy.
SanFranciscoBayAreaGal,
Everything one would need to know in life ( Chaucer figured out about 600 years ago? )
I keep meaning to re-read it “when I get caught up”. I still prefer him to “that -other- fraud”.
‘I keep meaning to re-read it “when I get caught up”. I still prefer him to “that -other- fraud”.
Well, now’s your chance, Dinor, since you’s all sickly and lyin’ around, instead of watching Dr. Phil berate retards you can read ‘The Wife of Bath’s Tale’.
And permit me to mock you: ‘Normally I wouldn’t give a rip but I was too sick to use the remote.”
*Rolls eyes and flaps hands in a comical fashion indicating supreme disbelief mixed with tolerant fondness *
WhatEVer….you probably watch Dr. Phil every single day, like a religion, and you have TiVo programmed for in case you ever miss an episode, and you have a special lap blankey you insist on cuddling up with when you watch, and after that you watch Oprah, and you cryyyyyy when there’s a sad story….
(Now, don’t be mad. I wouldn’t tease you if I thought you couldn’t take it.)
“That’s why some children of stellar f*ckups end up as business geniuses and vice versa.”
Never underestimate the value of teaching by example—particularly examples of what NOT to do.
I learned a lot about how not to run a business from my father, as well as how not to handle personal finances by watching both my parents.
The basic problem is that scamming, fudging the data, and developing ever more complicated get-rich-quick schemes has been the growth industry in the good old USA, and all of the “best minds” in America work in those industries. And it’s grown because the government believes “the market will police itself”.
None of this affects cynical, tail-end baby boomers like myself, because I can see most of them coming, and I’m not afraid to tell these jerks to go pound sand. Most older folks were raised differently, and would consider my actions to be “rude”.
Folks in their 70s-80s come from a completely different era, and are not prepared for the most part to deal with these sharks. These guys come up with scams at an exponential rate, where it’s almost a part-time job to keep up with all of it.
Remember that for a long time, women’s career path was geared toward being a stay at home mom/housewife. Even if they worked, it was ususally at some job that didn’t require much in the way of education. Most of the financial decisions were made by the husband. Now they are having to educate themselves on all this.
All most of them would like is an “honest broker” to give them some advice on what to do. Finding someone like that is getting harder and harder to do.
“I’m still a consumer/wage slave, but we don’t really get a choice today do we?”
SURE we get a choice today! Once of my goals I settled upon in college was to emancipate myself from this slavery.
Stop whining about your victimhood and do something about it. Every dollar you earn and every dollar you spend can be allocated toward your goals as you prioritize them.
How many have you chosen to allocate to emancipation, and how many have trickled away to destination unknown? If you add up what you have earned in the 10yrs post-college, the total may surprise you. What do you have left to show for it?
…’the only thing I learned how to do was shotgun a coors light.’
The most distressing part about this, Danull, is not that this is the only education you absorbed during your time at an institute of higher learning, no, the worst thing is that you did not even learn to drink something better than Coors Light.
Olympiagal!
Too funny! And you’re right ( if the shoe fits, wear it! )
Actually it was at the tail end of Sean Hannity ( so admitting that is probably just about as bad ) Awhile back I did away w/ the cable box so I don’t have a channel guide and find myself watching some of ‘the’ dumbest things?
Anyone else catch themselves completely mesmerized watching “How It’s Made” for an entire hour? Saying things to yourself like, “Ah ha! I KNEW they dipped those things in phosphorous bronze electro-static plating!”?
And it’s grown because the government believes “the market will police itself”.
The existence of the SEC says otherwise.
Prime:
No offense, but what is your point? Maybe I like working for a company. People can get more done in a group, ya know. Even if you work “for yourself”, you still have to have clients, and you are still a slave to whatever income you can chase down. And whatever you have left to show for it can be surmised by the way you feel about having lived your life, see?
I was going to recount for you guys an allegory from my dad about 7-11 and sandwiches, but then I remembered that I HATE the allegory about 7-11 and sandwiches, so I figured you’d all hate it too. What is it with dads and allegories anyway? Maybe they just make up allegories to keep their kids from being able to get a word in edge-wise and start asking for stuff. My mom never tells allegories, and as a matter of fact, I think I have just made it one of MY goals never to indulge in allegoryism ever again. See that, Primus? Emancipation strikes again.
‘Too funny! And you’re right ( if the shoe fits, wear it! )
…Awhile back I did away w/ the cable box so I don’t have a channel guide and find myself watching some of ‘the’ dumbest things?’
(Well, glad to see you can take a joke.
)
Oh, gosh, DinOR. been there! No, wait…AM there.
I have no ‘info’ menu since I switched cable providers. This is awhile back, and I should have paid more attention, but didn’t. Anyway, recently I watched 3 whole minutes of that one show on SciFi where they pretend they’re in a haunted house, I don’t know the name of the show, it’s utterly horrid, my brains refused to absorb any of it.
Who knows the show I mean?* It’s in night-vision and they dropped they camera twice in three minutes while chattering breathlessly about how a lamp moved a centimeter? The chubby guy wears a baseball hat? I made a note to myself to ask every ghost I know to visit the next set and seriously f*ck them up.
Next up for me is the Spanish Language channel. That’ll be fun.
*I hope none of you do know. ‘Cause you lost my respect if you do.
‘No offense, but what is your point?
Well, I think his point is he doesn’t want to be long-suffering, whether as a ‘consumer’ or a ‘wage-slave’ or as not one of those, as elected by him, after personal consideration and a studied choice, and measured steps taken to effect that choice. (This’s as I take it, and I don’t know Primey, in the meat, but I don’t care, I’m going to take liberties, because he’s not here to complain,)
It seems to me that when Primey writes ‘emancipation’, he means ‘freedom from artificial constraint’.
So, if you want to work in a company, because this effects your planned ends, then super.
I mean, what’s the argument? I see none.
PS. My dad is a criminal. So I don’t know what you’re talking about, but it sounds pretty cute. Tell us anyway, why dontcha?
DinOr,
A couple of years ago the History Channel had an Ice Road Truckers marathon. I started watching it and was hooked.
How Things are Made, Dirty Jobs, Mythbusters, Survivorman, and Man vs. Wild can be addictive.
I will also watch Speeders, Parking Wars, and the Principal Office.
Of course my favorite reality show of all time is The Amazing Race.
I agree combo. Sounds like my mom. “I don’t know nuthun’ about nuthin’, its not MY fault!”
If you don’t know nuthin about money then don’t be surprised if you engage in complicated money-related activities and lose your @$$.
If it makes sense, financially, to walk away, then walk away. Making an educated decision about that will require some effort into investigating the financial implications of doing so. It might be too late (the process of learning can take a while) for that now.
And all the non-tractors who took the money and walked away, after starting the job, whom I, stupid person, thought If I helped them out of their problem, they would do the job they contracted for.
I take this to mean you made this mistake more than once. Something my mom also did. I don’t get it with her and I don’t get it now. Its a mistake that anyone can make once, but more than that is your fault. No one will look after your money like you will, and if you don’t do it no one will. This tendency of giving money to people who you know (based on experience) have a high degree of liklihood to take it and not finish work tells me you don’t really care about your money, why should I?
Us non-college educated people, who didn’t have parental role models to watch invest and save are TARGETS.
External locus meet internal locus. You are what you decide to be. I grew up in a f*d up house. My stepdad was a drug addict and my mom, well, married a convicted felon and drug addict (and a mean sob, he stuck a gun to her head on one occasion). I am not like those people because I CHOOSE not to be. You don’t need financial advice, you need to make a choice in your life to starting making decisive decisions instead of just being swept along by whatever events come your way.
bluprint,
Then it’s a remarkable turnaround that you’ve staged! Kudos, you’ve no idea how kids I see these days that are floundering just to be normal.
Last night I saw a quick interview ( with of all people ) “Dr. Phil”. Normally I wouldn’t give a rip but I was too sick to use the remote. Now I’m glad, he said “You can’t cure money problems with money, you have to cure them by changes in your lifestyle and consumption”.
2X4? Meet noggin.
D - “You can’t cure money problems with money, you have to cure them by changes in your lifestyle and consumption.”
That’s a great way to sum it up. Often we get back to the point that not everyone is destined to own a house and that there is no shame in renting.
but I was too sick to use the remote.
**********************************
What!!!
DinOR you must have been so so sick. I hope you are much better today. In fact you must be, cause I usually pick up the remote before the ON button of the pc.
***************************************
2×4 meet noggin.
“You can’t cure money problems with money, you have to cure them by changes in your lifestyle and consumption.”
good phrases, or I shoulda had a V-8 vroom vroom, nah the Other v-8
desertdweller,
I wish I -was- kidding. As is typical in OR, we simply can’t have garden variety flu seasons? I keep teetering between thinking I’m getting over it… and begging the Lord to come and take me?
This has been a long and hard fought lesson for Mrs. D. We have always been in the top 5% of income for OR, but she seems like she’s forever struggling?
It hasn’t been until she has seen her friends let go of their beach properties and cancel cruises etc. that she has really come around.
DinOR,
I just rode bikes Sat am with your webfoot locals. A MD and his Urban Planner wife-50’s, beach house in OR coast, one month in PS, and thinking of getting home near their kids in MA.
I can thoroughly appreciate where Mrs D., or what she is thinking.
DinOR, come south and get well, the sun will surely warm it out of you. As a kid in PDX I had pneumonia 3 times, then we moved south.POOF. So, when prices go south further, lets do a share. I will be FT and you guys come for Jan-Mar.
Will start searching for perfect share..guest house etc.
The Mrs will love it. And I can come north for Jul-Aug. Poifect.
desertdweller,
I’ve checked on LOT of web sites that address that problem, and for the most part ( to -date- ) they’ve died on the vine.
Why make “arrangements” to share the use of a residence when can roll around naked in Big Fat Stacks Of Cash by buying… one! Why I’ll make so much money I don’t even have to worry about renting it out?
Well now, after a much needed humbling I see many very nice homes in PS for rent at increasingly reasonable rates. Ooops. Yeah I’d love to get out of OR a couple months out of the year.
I would have to say that older people are targets now a days.
My parents are retired and their phone rings off he wall constantly with sales pitches and they receive a pile of sales pitches in the mail everyday.
I think finally, like the “forward this email and Bill Gates will give you a million dollars” she keeps getting from her friends that are just now getting on the net, she is starting to recognize that the scams are all the same and now doesn’t even open the envelopes or listen to the pitches.
I hear ya, I never thought I’d have to play the role of my mom’s financial parent either.
Not only does the phone ring off the hook, but the woman gets harassed by personal bankers when she goes to conduct routine business. A few weeks ago one greasy twentysomething slickster latched on with a hardsell pitch for some annuity bullcrap. She’s too nice to these budding fraudsters so I occassionally tag along to scowl and shoot ocular laserbeams.
Skip,
No excuse. They didn’t pass the National-Do-NOT-Call List for nothing! It’s FREE fer’ chrissakes. If you have to, do it -for- them!
+1 on shutting all these BS shows down.
They actually work.
FPSS,
I get cold called ALL day at work, vendors, wholesalers, dreamers and scammers. Hey, I don’t care, some of them can be entertaining? But I refuse to engage that when I’m at home.
Takes about a minute to register. Help a brotha’ out!
On stopping solicitation calls: I have registered with “do not call” and still get calls. Just the other day, I got ANOTHER call from “Dan, the carpet cleaner”. I handled it the same way I did “Heather”, the girl who kept calling me to lower my credit card interest rates, (whom, by the way, I haven’t heard from in several months). Instead of pressing “2″ to stop future calls, (because it doesn’t work), I press “1″ to speak to someone. I tell the person that if they do not take me off the call list, the next time they call, (and the next and the next), I will pretend to be an interested customer, give them all sorts of fake information, fake name, fake address, fake credit card number, and waste more of their time than should be humanly possible. The caller sounded like she took what I said to heart, but we’ll see. (I kind of look forward to having fun with them. “My name? My name is … Fawn Lebowitz. Yeah, that’s the ticket. Fawn Lebowitz!”)
But… but… Fawn is DEAD!
Oh that Fawn, she’s such a kidder!
Yeah, it takes time to get off the list entirely… but all you have to do is document the calls and let them know you are doing so. It’s a LOT better than it used to be.
See, this is where y’all ALL get it wrong. ALL of y’all.
You don’t follow the script. You press 1 and then when they ask you something, you ask them whether they are wearing blue underwear this morning?
And when they answer that, you ask them whether or not they’ve ever eaten cat meat in their life?
Or whether they’d rather be a spanker or a spankee?
Or whether they ever asked their mom if she had oral s*x when she was 12?
And so on and so forth … eventually everyone gets the point, and it’s a lot more entertaining my way.
She’s too nice to these budding fraudsters so I occassionally tag along to scowl and shoot ocular laserbeams.
Good son!
My own mom is fairly financially savvy, but I think she gets taken on house/yard maintenance sometimes. And she definitely gets hassled a lot by fraudsters. She has younger brother and nephew very nearby (which certainly helps), but my sisters and I live too far away to shoot ocular laserbeams on her behalf.
fpss you are very creative.
You press 1 and then when they ask you something, you ask them…
1. Nope. Today is light pink with little white bows.
2. I’m not sure. I’ve eaten some fairly nasty dishes at dubious restaurants, so it could be…Fasty, you should specify, ‘have you ever eaten cat meat on purpose.
3. Why not be both?
4. Again, specificity. Give or get? when she was 12?
Anyway, I will never know, ’cause I ain’t askin’ my righteous Mormon mom that. I would have assumed she’s never had ANY kind of s*ex, except for evidence to the contrary.
*looks down at self *
‘Course, now that I think of it, she could have bought me and my siblings from gypsies!
I use similar techniques FPSS. Usually the calls end pretty fast, though one lady wanted to meet up.
Meh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5z4Vs26-TI
I type in a complaint on nearly every junk text mail or call I get on my cell phone. Yes, my number is on the do not call list. I was contacted by the FTC to sign an affidavit regarding the solicitor who spammed me multiple times. So file your complaints. It can make a difference.
I have registered with “do not call” and still get calls.
Same with my parents.
The brief time I was in sales, one salesman told me that his greatest successes were the people who had “no salesman” signs on their door. Like the flu virus, these people had no natural immunity to his line of BS.
The brief time I was in sales, one salesman told me that his greatest successes were the people who had “no salesman” signs on their door. Like the flu virus, these people had no natural immunity to his line of BS.
That’s horribly perceptive, and I disapprove of you sharing this information.
Oh, and I’m glad you were in sales only a ‘brief time’. So you still got one of those soul thingies.
A few years ago, I had that same scam carpet cleaners repeatedly call me despite being on the no-call list. I become so irritated with them that I ordered a huge carpet cleaning order, eight rooms, four couches, for a fictitious address. I figured I might as well inconvenience them as they had me.
LOL!!!! That’s what I’m talking about.
(I posted this with a link, and I don’t know how long it will be in moderation.)
“You Walk Away”, which received a lot of press, is being sued for being fraudulent. Consult with a local housing nonprofit or an attorney for an hour - walking away shouldn’t be very complicated.
““You Walk Away”, which received a lot of press, is being sued for being fraudulent. ”
My theory is that it is unhappy bankers who are behind the suit against You Walk Away LLC. I could be wrong about that, of course—it’s just a hunch.
It’s really simple and easy to walk away. The plaintiffs believe the $995 is a ripoff, since YWA LLC wasn’t providing much of a service.
I vote to walk away. Problem with that though, is that she won’t be getting any TARP money like the wall street crooks.
“Walk away” is a bad term Let’s use wall street lingo. Bailout, my investing priorities have changed, selling short, etc,etc.etc.
denquiry,
“Deferred Occupancy”?
Hey, I ‘could’ move back in! ( As a squatter..? )
My investment strategies have changed. I’m bailing out.
I had to “walk away” from a home back in 2001. I’m not proud of it, but I had to do it for financial and family reasons. There wasn’t really much to it. The state kept trying to nail me with property tax for a couple years, but I finally got a person with a brain at the tax collectors office and straightened that part out. Of course, my credit went to crap. I got a couple secured credit cards and used those to rebuild a little positive credit history while father time healed my FICO score over the years.
A friend of mine had to do that as well. Somehow the DEA had put a lien on the wrong house. Getting the lien removed would have cost more than his equity in the house, so he just left the bank and DEA to duke it out.
Another Jimbo???? If anyone has noticed, when I don’t stray OT or do a post-and-run, I try to give “boots-on-the-ground” observations about what I see in the Atlantic City, NJ, area. I’ll post from now on under the moniker, “JimboAC.” Latest development from AC? Resorts Casino had some success trying to stall foreclosure by pleading that lenders had to obtain casino licenses before they could foreclose. There was some half-a-loaf decision to the effect that lenders could foreclose without licenses so long as they left in place, to run casino operations, the current licensee. Glad they cleared that up! Bottom line: Resorts has a little more time and incentive to work out something with the lenders.
“Most people think disability retirees are just working the system. ”
It doesn’t help when you actually know people who are. They somehow manage to opt out because they’re tired of the whole thing, hate office politics, or are afraid of looking for a job, don’t want to go back to school (even when it’s free), or are too fat and can’t stand or sit very long…it’s giving disability a bad name.
This person should use her disability classification to get Section 8.
Section 8’s are a long long wait list.
Senior citizen ‘friends’ tell me this all the time.
I hated office politics with a deep purple passion. Getting away from that stuff was great motivational fuel for starting my own business.
I took out a fixed rate loan in 1998 and still got it. The payments are still the same, in fact they seem a little lower to me now because I make a little more. Too bad a lot of people didn’t understand that home isn’t spelled ATM.
Here is even better topic:
Why are so many people so DESPERATE to buy a home?
It strikes me as Desperation to buy a home then they get even more desperate to keep it.
We’re about to go to the other side of the emotions.
Desperate to be:
1. Mobile
2. Low cost of living (more cushion)
In normal times owning, after you suffer through the first few years, helps provide more stability to the buyer and the community. In normal times, DTI of 31% is considered ‘tough.’
We just went through a period were the median DTI in California touched 50% (or was dang close, I’m going from memory). 42% would be insane and un-manageable.
People are about to become very afraid of debt (both lenders and borrowers). No… we’re not there yet. When down payments hit 50%… we’re at the worst. Expect 50% down to be required for Jumbos.
Got Popcorn?
Neil
Heard this at a retirement investment seminar this week.
” I feel secure in a home of my own”.
Well, after the seminar and dinner, I regaled them with
“nothing wrong with renting”,
“the bank is your landlord” and
‘don’t buy if you have to, till after next year at the earliest’.
After I shared with them, they thanked me for giving them more info than the Insurance agent/retirement investment guru gave them, which was weird. I urged them to inform themselves and read the HBB.
By the way, I was the only one under 75. The dinner was good though.
75-year-olds at an investment seminar? Why?
A lot of them do this stuff, just to have someone to talk to/bit#h at.
For the FREE lunch at a swanky Indian Wells restaurant.Vicky’s of Sante Fe. And cause they have nothing to do in the middle of the day. Much better than the Early Bird Special. No tipping either.
free lunch.
75-year-olds at an investment seminar? Why?
Because the average 75 year old can expect to live another 13.4 years. That is a long term investment in anybody’s book, and he might beat the odds and live to be 100. Time enough left to repay a 25 year morgtage.
I’d like to lock in what my future payments will be. My rent has gone for $375/month to $1175/month in what… 5 years? I’m not living in a better place, but I don’t have roomates. Rents *HAVE* gone up where I live. Much of it I guess can be attributed to the Navy and Military increasing the housing allowances. I make good cash, but it doesn’t go far.
Wow, that’s a heck of an increase.
Rents have increased in our area, but not nearly that much.
Isn’t it funny how government subsidies to make housing “more affordable” actually make it more expensive?
Perhaps you can find something cheaper nearby?
Why are so many people so DESPERATE to buy a home?
Used to be alot of Inflation
I think it has to do with our “national memory.” At one time only property owners could vote. Also, owning property does give people a sense of permanence, a sense of belonging somewhere. When you own property, it’s yours in a way that owning a big screen TV or car isn’t. Although try not paying your property taxes and you’ll see how much your house really is “yours.” I have a mortgage still, so whenever I have to answer the question “do you own or rent” I have a strong urge to write “the bank and I own.” So either way, your property is ultimately the govt’s or the bank’s and their just nice enough to continue the illusion of owning.
I would offer assistance but can’t seem to comprehend exactly what the heck happened here.
“She called back and baffled me with BS until a point I said ‘yes,…”
Said “yes” to what?
The only two pieces of advice I can give are these.
1. Don’t live by your FICO score.
2. Start listening to and/or watching the Dave Ramsey show.
Wow, that is sad. Hard to know what to say. Makes me think of an old Dylan song: “Muscleman stalkin’ the sick and the lame, preacherman seeks the same, who gets there first is uncertain.”
Some folks fail to pick up on the basic rules about life and others have no interest in abiding by them. It’s bad when they meet, inevitable too. Enough foolosophizing … can’t she walk away?
I’m trying to figure out how old you are, and where you are. But I’ll assume you are somewhere around 60 years old (if you worked in the 1960s), on disability, and living alone in Silicon Valley.
In that case, all you need is a studio apartment in a safe area where you can walk to things that matter to you and the things you need. If you are living alone, there is no reason for you to live in a whole house regardless, and you live in the right kind of place, you don’t need a car either if you aren’t working (and in some cases even if you are working). If you’re not that disabled, you can cook your own meals, cable TV can be dispensed with, libraries provide books, public parks provide recreation. And Social Security, which may pay you more than disability, is around the corner.
The problem is that you are in a very expensive area, where as a renter you may eventually face the possiblity of rent increases. And you haven’t been poor enough to access the social service system, but are no longer well off enough to get by without it. Find a non-profit credit counselor to help you evaluate your options.
But yes, prepare to walk away from the balls and chains. Think about a new life once you do. Where can you get a small apt. where you can walk to medical care, shopping, and other things?
I agree with everything except giving up the cable TV. An older person living alone wants the small luxury of having lots to watch on TV.
I recommend netflix over cable (cheaper, more customizable, etc.) but this is a minor detail in the overall financial picture.
Yes! Wife and I are considering that move. No commercials, no weird fees, you can watch an entire series when you want. It’s great.
Though we have blown through an entire weekend in our pajamas to get through 2 seasons of “The Wire”. Man that’s a good show.
Great show, The Wire.
I watched the first 2 or 3 seasons of Weeds online via Netflix. I have the remainder available (which were not available online) seasons on my queue.
Netflix is fantastic.
Love Netflix but it is true you can end up blowing through a whole weekend saying just one more episode. Watched all Sopranos and Six Feet Under with Netflix. I also have given my login info to a few family and friends and they put movies or shows on my list. I’ve been turned onto several movies I never would have seen.
Got any recommendations.
She doesn’t mention if she has any credit card debt, or drug or medical bills.
I agree, WT. She should find a counselor. I would guess that a good move would be to declare BK as part of a short sale. Assuming she has no other credit card debt or uncovered drug or medical bills, she would start again at 0 with a small income. These days, that’s practically being ahead. The studio apartment is a good idea. Or, she might have enough leftover to move to a mobile home park in a much cheaper area of the country.
People have to get used to the idea that they don’t need all this crap. If the spouse kicks off first I’ll end up being happy in the studio apt. as described; otherwise a 1 BR will do. Twenty-five years spent accumulating stuff, and we’ll spend the next 25 years getting rid of it.
What do you need? The photo albums, the phone, computer, video and music (could all be one thing someday very soon), books in a bookcase, food to eat and the ability to cook, a bed to sleep in with a clock radio on a nightstand, some clothes to wear, and while I can still do it, a bicycle to ride and a paddle ball racket and balls. I don’t use anything else anyway.
It isn’t just about a lack of money. You’re better off without it.
My plan exactly. I’m clearing out as much stuff as I can now. The kids get the comic books they want. My son doesn’t want any, so I’m selling his best friend the titles he wants 3/$1. Maybe we can sell the rest on eBay sometime. If not, I would probably throw them away if I had to. Aside from making my life esier now, I don’t want to leave my kids the mess we had to deal with when my fil died 4 years ago. He had tons of unfixable junk that he wouldn’t throw away. I don’t know what his papers were like. Sil dealt with that.
Great post. I wish I could pump my wife full of mind control drugs and force her to read it.
Trying having her read any of Don Aslett’s books on clutter. He helped me get started. In fact, I was in a bookstore everal years ago that had one of his books on clearnace. The clerk tried to interest me in it. “Sorry, it would just be more clutter,” was my reply.
WT Economist,
The wife and I have already beat the inevitable rush to downsize! Sold the “dream” home in 2004 and have been living in 1,200 s/f ever since!
But you’re right, it IS an effort. Shoe horning your life from 2,400 s/f, 3 acres and numerous outbuildings to HALF that and a 1 car garage doesn’t happen overnight. My advice? It’s never to early to start! Especially when it comes to claiming the donations you -will- be making.
If she’s disabled, she’s likely on SS disability, which often includes Medicare even if you’re less than 65. The unemployed on SS disability are the lucky ones, because they have health insurance.
And don’t forget the “Golden Girls” option. Someone that needs a roommate can be good companionship as well as an economical solution (shared expenses on cable tv, etc.)
I have a retired friend who spends part time in Florida that does this - he rents a room a block from the beach and is really happy with the freedom.
Not for everyone I know, but perhaps worth considering
She worked for 25 years as an operator before becoming an installer in the late 60s. Shouldn’t that make her at least 80? I don’t know how long AT&T has been around.
The exact age doesn’t really matter to me. What is clear is that here is a person that could EASILY have paid off a 30yr. mortgage and own a house FREE AND CLEAR.
But, we find, for whatever reason, there have been multiple mortgage deals. Re-finance? Money for expenses? Bills?
I don’t know.
I am just past 50. My small house has been paid off for nearly 8 years. I don’t have an executive paycheck. I don’t mortgage and don’t buy on credit. If I get sick, the medical bills will just have to be paid when I have the cash. They can’t take my house.
Why is someone who should be living clear, dealing in loans?
The second T in AT&T stands for telegraph.
It was founded by Alexander Graham Bell’s father-in-law in 1878.
Yes, Mr. Bell’s homestead is in Brantford, Ontario. About 30 miles as the crow flies from here.
My three sisters are headed the same way, although currently none are disabled and none got the real estate get-rich-quick stupid bug. They just never saved money. They are in their early 50s. All are renting in rapidly declining house price areas in California and Oregon.
I’m going to have to bail them out eventually, I know. I tried to advise them how to save but they never listened. Their apartments (one has a mobile home) are filled with “stuff.” My place has few things.
Anyway I have to figure legal ways to make the most money without being subjected to scams, buy low and sell high. Simple, right?
I’m beginning to wonder if everyone is wired to forget the rule “if it is too good to be true, it really is too good to be true?” Once past that time when the brain won’t grok that rule, you may as well paint a bullseye on your chest.
Why do you have to bail them out?
I’m beginning to wonder if everyone is wired to forget the rule “if it is too good to be true, it really is too good to be true?”
Another rule: “You can’t cheat an honest man.”
Get an attorney. Discuss your options. Make a decision. You may have to choose quality of life over credit score. Walking may be your only choice.
Back in college I had an extraordinary business law professor. He emphasized doing what was right over what you could get away with legally. It didn’t mean you didn’t have to know the law. He quizzed us everyday. The idea was to do the right thing despite your legal advantages. He was a tough sob — four of 25 students passed.
It’s pretty disgusting what the REIC/FIRE has done to this country. It’s even more disgusting watching policymakers protect them. Get rid of repulsive lenders and repulsive lending practices. Stop protecting REIC/FIRE scum. Policymakers need to step up and do the right thing.
“Get an attorney. Discuss your options. Make a decision. You may have to choose quality of life over credit score. Walking may be your only choice.”
But get the right attorney. Just any attorney won’t do, not even just any real estate attorney. I contacted both a real estate attorney and a tax adviser on similar issues in May 2007. They were woefully uninformed on the details. Those details matter a lot. There are lots of other non-legal issues to consider too, but what was most disappointing was I could not get clear, legal advice on the legal issues that were clear.
Good post, mktMaven. Agree 100%.
This poor woman needs to see an attorney, and should probably walk away.
BTW, it sounds like she was spending a lot of money on “improvements” based on the comments regarding contractors and the neighbor who got on her for not keeping up the place (that’s how I read it). Not a good move for a senior, IMHO.
Also, while most posters here are blessed with higher I.Q.s, please realize that approximately half of the population has an I.Q. under 100. We need to be more compassionate. This is the reason we NEED regulations and stiff penalties for people who try to exploit the less advantaged.
This is what happens when someone spends their entire life in a university. They cling to business ideas that in no way resemble the real business world.
I think walking away from a grossly underwater home (25% or more) make great sense. I have a home which is ~50% underwater and have made the decision to leave. I pursued a modification and all the offer did was lower my payments (PITI) from $3400/mo to $3000/mo but extend the loan from 30 to 40 years. I stopped paying the mortgage and property taxes in September of 08 and have been able to save over $20k so far and have yet to receive a Notice of Default (I live in CA) which means I have at least 4 more months before I have to leave. My family will have no debt, own both cars outright and have in excess of $5000 a month to spend on rent and savings until our credit recovers. I am guessing that in ~ 5 years, I will be able to buy my current house back for no more than fifty cents on the dollar and put a 50% down payment on it as well. When I look at the pros and cons of trying to stick it out or bailing and starting over, it’s pretty much a no-brainer.
In 5 years, no one will give you a loan. You will need a 100% down payment. I wish I could get free rent so I could save $5k/month too.
Ah, yes, the ultimate easy payment plan:
100% Down! No Additional Payments!
“In 5 years, no one will give you a loan.”
I thought we were pretty much going to an all-cash society anyway.
Marked to market, a 50% down payment will garnish an immediate financing regardless of credit. Get real.
Big V,
I think you are wrong about the ability to get a loan in 5 years. Credit will not be nearly as important as a hefty down payment and walking away now will allow me to have that. Conservatively, I would expect to have ~ $150k to put down in 5 years. Home prices are not likely going be much higher (and possibly lower) than they are today. I may be wrong, but if so I can deal with continuing to rent and stockpile cash until I can buy with cash. Whether I will or won’t be able to get a loan in five years, my fiancial situation five years from now looks much much brighter than it would if I was to continue dumping $3500/mo into a house worth less than half of what I owe on it.
No, walking away now will expose you as a credit risk. I think it’s really unfair that you get to live rent-free while I plug along and dutifuly pay my rent. I am putting th juju on you right now. Ju. There. Ju again. Kazam.
I really hope you can’t get anything with all that money you’re saving by not paying rent.
Are you really saying that you would prefer to be a debt slave with good credit than debt free with bad credit? I don’t think that it is fair that people who bought at completely the wrong time have the opportunity to walk away and save a small bundle of money while they wait for foreclosure. However, I do find myself in that position and will take full advantage. The people I feel sorry for are the ones who bought at the wrong time and due to a self-inflicted moral obligation to the bank will continue to struggle to pay their mortgage. I feel for these people because I think that there are several of them out there who are selling personal property, working two jobs, and running up credit card debt in an effort to make good on a loan they will likely end up defaulting on in the end. They will have no escape plan and their net result will be the same as mine, except with no money to help out while they find a new place to live and try to start over. I am just biting the bullet now with some starter cash instead of living in denial and ruining myself financially while I wait for the inevitable. I hope the warmth they feel from “doing the right thing” helps keep them warm when they are on the streets. Not trying to sound cruel, just looking at the situation as honestly as I can.
The way things are headed right now, in 5 years the Government will be the biggest landlord in the country. Credit will be easily available from a Government owned bank.
You could use it to buy one of the Government owned houses, or Government made car. Anybody who wants one will have a Government job. Anybody who doesn’t can collect Government subsidies. Government will be like a Big Brother for you.
Government will know what you need, and provide it.
Where is NHZ?
Hey Partyboy
Spirituality portal
Karma kárma
The philosophical explanation of karma can differ slightly between traditions, but the general concept is basically the same. Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one’s own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others. The results or ‘fruits’ of actions are called karma-phala. In religions that incorporate reincarnation, karma extends through one’s present life and all past and future lives
Jeff,
I understand the concept of karma. I guess you could argue that the positive situation for me being able to last so long in a home I am not paying on is my benefit for the ridiculous commisions the realtor made when I made the poor decision to buy at the top of the bubble. (sarcasm)
I don’t completely discount the theory of karma, but I would lean on it far less than making informed and logical decisions when it comes to my finances. I simply don’t wish to compound one bad decision with another one. It’s okay to make mistakes if you learn from them. I have learned from my mistake, I was hypnotized by the beautiful model homes and now that I see the writing on the wall I will make a better choice without letting my emotions skew my judgement.
Partyboy
You are talking to the wrong guy about this. As I have posted on this blog before I also bought at the wrong time, in the early 80`s. One year later I was 40% upside down where I remained for years. The reason I did not walk away was my father. He taught me that my word was all I had and if that didn`t stand for anything, neither did I.
There is a difference in your situation and the person being discussed here. An elderly disabled person who has gone through their savings trying to save their home is different than someone who realizes they are not going to make money on their investment, and turns down an offer to “lower my payments (PITI) from $3400/mo to $3000/mo but extend the loan from 30 to 40 years.” and banks $3,400.00 a month. In my book that is Bad Karma, and in my father`s book, well, you know where you stand.
I don’t think what Partyboy is doing is so wrong or stupid. I think it’s too bad that he made a crappy decison when he bought his place. I don’t think he’s doing anything stupid or that he’s going to get bad karma for walking away at all. He’s going to certainly pay a price with a bad credit score for awhile, but if he is on a cash-only basis, oh well. We’d do the same thing perhaps, if we weren’t afraid of the bad credit ratings which we would receive. Plus, we can comfortably pay our mortgage. But the house is worth 60% of what my husband paid for it 8 years ago. Geeze, I’ve had enough bad karma in my life already, and I’ve paid off every debt I ever owed except 3, and 2 of those were forgiven part-way thru my payments, to 2 relatives. I have paid off $ 350,000 in debt from a failed business ( along with my first husband ), and trust me, no one has ever stepped up and shaken my hand, or given me a medal for “good debt repayment.” We should have bankrupted in 1987. I would be a hundred thousand dollars richer now, and have excellent credit by this time. Lesson learned the hard way.
I have seen it happen. I call it ” what comes around goes around” any of the examples in my life would take too much time to post. But defending O.J. was a business decision, how long did those guys live.
People like you are exactly what is wrong with this country, and in addition to being a partyboy, you are a posterboy for why we should bring back debtor’s prisons.
he needs some road work
“shakin it here boss”
I would throw every Wall Street bank exec in debtor’s prison as well.
Right on, NSO. What gives them, and not the FB’s, the right to play with other people’s money?
They should have lost that right when they created the Ponzi schemes that they’re now getting bailouts for.
Well technically the other people signed their money over to them.
It’s too bad the shareholders don’t value longevity over raw profits. As in, “we only make an 8% return, but we’re making sure we’ll be around in 15 years.”
I was referring more to depositors and taxpayers rather than the shareholders’ money– though even there, I think there have been gross violations of fiduciary duty and transparency.
I hold no brief for specuvestors or irresponsible Heloc’ers, but they’re basically jaywalkers compared with the Al Capones of Wall St.
jbunniii,
I understand why you would begrudge someone who does something you don’t agree with but can you honestly look at a situation like mine, which by the way is quite common in the bubble states, and think that walking is the wrong decision? It certainly is not a bad move financially and with available credit shrinking every day, stockpiling cash seems like a good move to make.
I guess you and I have a philisophical difference about this housing market and that likely stems from us being in very different situations. I don’t see any need to belittle what you think is right, but I do think that you should try looking at this situation as emotionless as possible so feelings will not cloud your financial judgement.
Dude:
We’re pissed because you’re getting free rent. We don’t think that’s fair. We think it’s a curse on society, which makes you a criminal. Just because it works for you doesn’t mean it works for the hood. Ju. Ju.
You’ll get mixed messages here: walking away merely a business decision/you’re what’s wrong with the world.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Advice: just don’t talk about it.
cool with me stick it to the bank and next time they won’t be so eager to lend money and cause all this house inflation.
whats not cool is the government buying bank stock with treasuries because somewhere down the road I’m going to pay for this. I’m just trying to pay as little as possible for the “housing Bubble”
Well said, cactus.
I rather enjoy walk-aways as they are helping to correct the housing bubble and bring prices to more affordable levels. OTOH, if we have to pay for them via bailouts, then we have a problem.
What would a corporation or a bank do if one of their investments was underwater by 50% and there was little chance of recovery? They’d default in an instant (loss mitigation).
Hesitation because of some societal or moral sense of obligation is grossly misplaced. This is a business decision. Emotion shouldn’t enter into it.
The Fed’s friends are getting the bail out. The individual is ain’t getting a penny. Look out for yourself and your family. Make your choices on what’s good for you, not for Big V.
How can you say that the individual is not getting a penny? The man is living for free. I’m all for walking away, but I’m willing to pay a sherrif to kick this guy out and make him get a rental. That will light a fire under the bank’s ass to either get a paying tenant or sell the place post-haste.
Is it my imagination or are FB’rs in nothing but a win/win situation in this country? Bailout, walk away with savings in the bank, etc.
Meanwhile I pay my rent and bills all my life. Save money at the local credit union and earn crap interest. Have a 795 FICO.
Maybe justice will come when Partyboy applies for a job and is rejected because they do a credit check and he’s hosed.
So, how about no debtor’s prison, but a federal law that all applicants need to have good credit to hold any position of responsibility? Otherwise, you work at Taco Bell or McDonalds.
Oooo….how about we publish a registry of the financially irresponsible? (Similar to the Ntl Sex Offender Registry).
You sound proud, that is a shame.
He sounds smug to me. He has transcended from his old “smug housedebtor” self into his new “smug forecosure victim” self. If there’s one thing I hate, it’s smug.
Ooh, that guy.
He sounds smug to me. He has transcended from his old “smug housedebtor” self into his new “smug forecosure victim” self. If there’s one thing I hate, it’s smug.
I’m a non-practicing Catholic, not very religious, so this next statement is a bit of a stretch for me: “You shall not covet…”
Seriously, while we would all like to not pay rent or mortgages and be able to save more money, there is a price to pay for walking away from a financial obligation. Who truly knows what the future holds for this person and what unintended consequences will occur because of this decision?
I guarantee his plan on banking lots of savings every month and buying another house in a few years will not work out the way he thinks… look how his plan on buying a house worked out. I’m sure he never thought he’d be a foreclosure candidate when he signed those mortgage papers.
Trust me, this is very bad juju…
I assume this is directed at me so I will respond. I would not call myself smug. I certainly do not intend to come across this way. I am simply comfortable in what I am doing. I make good money (~ double the median in my area) but I am not rich. I am well educated and have a very solid job which requires a necessary but niche skill set. I made a bad decision to buy a home at the exact wrong time. Now I find myself in a situation where I can continue paying on my house right now but will likely lose the home in 2.5 years due to a large balloon payment coming due. I could have put money down when I bought the house but when given the option to pay now or pay later, I chose later. It gave me options and leverage down the road which I am exercising now. Had I put money down when I bought the home I would not be able to ask for it back now so it turns out that this was a good decision for me. The banks used to require that homeowners take the risk on their housing investment by immediately sinking 20% into the home. But when they started allowing people in for 0% down, they put all of the risk on their shoulders. They trusted credit scores would be a major factor when it comes to the performance of the loan. This was a big mistake. I think that the major lesson learned from this is that down payments are an absolute must. If a borrower has a 50% down payment, a solid income, no debt but bad credit they are still a far safer investment than someone with 10% down, decent income, some debt and great credit. As the past few years have shown, the major driving force for many people when it comes to staying and stuggling or saving and leaving is how much they stand to lose financially. 50% down on a home would mean someone has no incentive to walk if the value drops by 50%. And even if someone did walk in that situation, the bank would be close to the break even point and it would hurt them very much. This is my thought process as it pertains to my future and only time will tell if I am right or wrong. Like someone said in one of these posts, money talks. This will only become more true as credit defaults continue to escalate over the next few years. Good luck to all, renters, walkers, bystanders, etc…
“When I look at the pros and cons of trying to stick it out or bailing and starting over, it’s pretty much a no-brainer.”
Partyboy, good for you. It’s not ethical and actually quite disgusting, but money talks.
One thought though - some employers check credit history when hiring, and will withdraw an offer if any financial shenanigans are discovered.
You will save a ton of cash, congratulations. But you also will become unemployabe for many choice positions.
You know, it’s one thing to walk from something which is sustainable for the long term. But it is quite another to walk from something which is destined to fail eventually anyways. I completely understand the opposing viewpoints in this blog, but I disagree with their approach to planning for the future. It seems to me that many people are operating on faith in the govt or hoping that there will be a positive change for them in the future as opposed to taking action to mitigate the future consequences of past mistakes. I certainly don’t think that this decision will be without penalty, I just think that it will be far less painful than waiting and hoping only to find out I should have walked sooner when I actually had some control over the situation. And thanks for the note about employability. I know this can cause problems for some but fortunately it will not affect me in any way so it was not something that I considered in this matter.
well done. if everybody would do this, home prices will collapse to a point that will bring affordability back.
“But yes, prepare to walk away from the balls and chains. Think about a new life once you do. Where can you get a small apt. where you can walk to medical care, shopping, and other things?”
Good advice, forget the house and for gods sake forget the FICO score.
You need to prioritize
1 food
2 utilities (electricity,water)
3 rent (small and safe would be good)
4 transportation (bus pass would work)
Once these are taken care of you can look for ways to improve your situation, but I wouldn`t spend another second worrying about a house you can`t afford or someone who scammed you or your FICO score.
jeff saturday,
True, and since I have absolutely NO desire to accrue -any- more debt ( WTF do I care about my FICO score for? )
One thing I -will- challenge though is the notion that the City Bus will continue to run like clockwork. With as many states and cities crying poor, how long will it be before they realize they can’t afford to operate at all?
I don’t think even having every last seat filled will make these things pencil out?
Count me as another HBB-er who couldn’t care less about my FICO score. Perhaps we should start a movement.
Good post Jeff Saturday.
1- Find new apt or a share. I caught 5 min of Oprah last week and she had families who were Sharing with someone else, so they could afford to stay in their homes. Homeshare or something like that.
Do that before you FICO goes down, and then fuggetaboutit. Good referrals/cash=KING.
I agree with frugality, but forget the austerity program WT is suggesting.
Not that it isn’t a good idea for some. Or only option…
Seniors that I know, read in excess of 10-20 books from the library per week. Most libraries are not anywhere in walking distance or bus for that matter.
And a studio- ICK , unless you are in dire straits, I have seen more seniors in low level depression in teensy abodes, no money, no where to go, nothing to do. A one bdrm works. You can leave one room for a change of view. Seriously, low level depression really is an issue for some seniors. It isn’t necessarily the teensy abode that causes it, it only adds to all the other things in life.
TV isn’t important or a filler for some, others it is the only cheap entertainment they can get.
It has been many yrs since I roamed Palo Alto, but isn’t their bus service good? However, I don’t know how close in the food banks, libraries are to where this woman wants to relocate. The RE $$$ probably got rid of all the social sources close in.
I know many seniors who have to go to foodbanks, or the senior center for free bread. For free movies. For free books. And still they don’t have but a couple of dollars left for 2 weeks of living.
Phone for seniors or people on seriously fixed low incomes, can be $5.00 per month, or buy phone cards at the dollar store.
Good luck and ‘walk away Renae’…
Amen. The FICO doesn’t matter if you’re on disability, has gotten into a good rental, and won’t be buying a house. The focus should be on food, utilities, rent, and transportation.
In addition, if you’re on disability, I believe that income is judgement-proof. You’re probably so poor that you’re safe from being sued.
I would also suggest that it’s time to go through all the local social service and private charity listings and find out what they offer: food pantries, Meals on Wheels, whatever. If you have any relatives that you have a good relationship with, don’t be too proud to ask for help.
Lastly, even in your poor health, you have something to give back to the community, as well as a reason to get out and meet people. You could do literacy or English as a Second Language tutoring.
I don’t see how anyone on this blog could read this and still think there is no such thing as “predatory lending.”
What about predatory borrowing
Or predatory affinity soliciting. I want Mrs. Madoff to do my books for the next 20 years!
It takes two to Tango. It takes two to agree to a transaction. Just say “no”, and mean it.
For good advice read Matthew 5:37.
Of course there is. But what are you going to do about it? Have a “nanny state” where you presuppose EVERYONE is too stupid to make a decision for himself?
Most marketing is predatory. QVC hunts lonely insomniacs. About half of the cosmetics industry preys on “low self esteem”. The mortgage market went after Harry Howmuchamonth and his desire to have the American Dream he “deserves” with low EZ payments.
Nobody wants to stand up and say that many people are too stupid to be trusted making purchasing decisions. That’s OK, but we don’t have to bail them out, either. How will they ever get smarter?
I know that a lot of people on this blog are very bright people. Pretty much everything that has happened over the last few years is exactly how we thought this would play out. We think it was so obvious that it’s sometimes hard to imagine that other people didn’t get it. That they were just going along, living their lives, and had no idea of the financial storm that was brewing. I think this lady’s story is a very useful opportunity to think about this crisis from a different perspective. A lot of the comments have been made on this blog along the lines of bluprint said. “If you don’t know nuthin about money then don’t be surprised if you engage in complicated money-related activities and lose your @$$.” And I understand exactly where he/she is coming from. It’s a sentiment I share sometimes. But then I also think about my grandmother in her paid-for home and all of the scum-of-the-earth scam artists who might try to con her. Yes, deciding where to live and how to pay for it is a major financial decision that requires some expertise to sort out the different options. Not everyone has that expertise. Should we expect them to? At some basic level, yes. But when an “expert” comes along and gives them advice, non-experts are very vulnerable. This is part of the reason doctors have to abide by certain professional standards. It’s inefficient for everyone in a society to be trained as a doctor. So if a non-doctor goes to see a doctor, presumably the doctor is at an informational advantage, and the patient has to trust that he/she is getting the best advice. Registered investment advisers have similar obligations. Mortgage brokers do not, but most people don’t know that. Mortgage brokers purposely imply that they are working on behalf of their borrowers, but they have no obligation to act in the best interest of the borrower. I would wholeheartedly agree that we need to have more basic financial education in our schools, but I think what happened to this woman and the decisions that she made stem from a bigger problem that can’t just be solved by telling everyone to become experts in mortgages.
Good post. I shall award it:
+ 100 Twizzlers, a new sparkly pink lipgloss, a really old copy of Canterbury Tales and a flower bulb I don’t know what it is.
Treasures, all.
Anonymous Coward,
Very well said. In the end I suppose you could say that “the free market worked” in that NO investor will -ever- buy a “broker originated” loan again!
So they basically defrauded themselves right out of the business. Even if they do survive I want laws written that say in BOLD PRINT:
“As a mortgage broker I am *not* in ANY way obligated to act in YOUR best interest. My objective is to place you in a loan that compensates me as favorably as possible”
Fifteen years ago worked with “a family friend” on a re-fi. One of mom’s bridesmaids. Bent me over for $4k+ on a $100k loan. Have never allowed further contact since, though it strains family relationships. I do not forgive easily, nor should any persons considering a loan modification from the one who raped them in the first place.
“but I think what happened to this woman and the decisions that she made stem from a bigger problem”
Anon, I agree with your post… But I think the “bigger problem” is that this woman never seems to have understood the concept of caveat emptor—buyer beware.
It sounds like she can’t say “no” to someone who comes to the door to sell her something; I won’t even talk to cold-callers. It sounds like she has been taken advantage of by multiple contractors who did not complete work she paid them for; the only sensible way to deal with contractors is to pay them no more than pro-rated amount for _finished_ work at pre-agreed stages of completion (e.g. when they are 20% done on the job, you release 20% of the funds). Sensible behavior makes it impossible to be taken advantage in the multitude of ways she describes.
Without developing more of a sense of self-preservation, this woman sounds like she has been walking around with a “please take advantage of me” sticker taped to her back; my guess is that she will continue to do so. You simply can’t protect someone from themself.
This is true in many aspects of society. I have burst many bubbles when talking about things like dietary supplements. One example is anti-oxidants which have been proven by clear unequivocal scientific proof to have absolutely no health benefits when ingested. Non-the-less, most people I know believe that they work because they saw it on a commercial. I’d guess that many savvy posters here on HBB take anti-oxidants which to me looks like foolishly throwing money away. It’s all about your knowledge base, which for me, was very lacking in the home buying areas.
Wow!
“Anonymous”, “Subcommander Dred”, and “LA Investorgirl” all back re-posting this week.
It’s like a Class of 2005 HBB Homecoming.
Still looking for Lingus, NYCBoy, and Alad!
Are you out there Major Tom?
A friend just did a short sale for about $135,000 on a $170,000 mortgage. He says it won’t hurt his credit rating that much. I think he’s out of his mind. I also wonder if he owes income tax on the $35,000 of forgiveness conveyed to him by the bank.
Finally, two years ago he broke off a piece of the land on the property and sold it for $80,000. He feels he has no tax obligation on this as they paid $170,000 for the house, the $80,000 land sale changes the cost basis to $170,000 minus $80,000 = $90,000 and the ultimate sale price of $135,000 means his capital gain on the sale was under the $250,000. Sounds legit on one hand, but I wonder if the short sale somehow negates the $250,000 free pass.
That sure sounds like fraud, but I am sure it is perfectly legal.
I think it falls under the ethical vs. morale dilemma.
Forgiven mortgage debt is not-taxable, made that way a couple years ago by the IRS with the idea that it would stem the tide of foreclosures. A number of us around here took approximately 8 seconds to figure out that it would accelerate price declines by reducing one of the disincetives to walking away.
Just a quibble, but I believe that change was done by statute which means it was changed by Congress. Executive branch agencies and departments interpret (guided by court interpretations and legislative history) and enforce the law, they don’t change it.
I don’t think you can get $250K capital gain exemption for selling a piece of land carved off of a larger plot. The exemption is for the sale of a primary residence (at least 2 of the last 5 years). See this: http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/industries/article/0,,id=98921,00.html
Now, he could allocate part of the original purchase price of the house and land against the 80K to reduce his gain on the sale of the land, but he is still going to owe tax on it. Oh, and not reporting a transaction to the IRS at all can push you over into a 6 year instead of a 3 year statute of limitations.
Unless he can argue that the two sales are really one transaction (no way on the facts you present) he is stuck paying tax on the old land sale. Also, why did his bank let him sell part of the land securing the original mortgage without paying off part of his obligation? Did he do a refi at the same time as the land sale?
Excellent point on the land. Before he sold it, he had to subdivide, making it a separate piece of property he owned - no longer their primary residence.
As for your last question, I’m not really sure how he pulled it off. I am fairly certain he did a refi and I believe it was one that had since reset at a higher rate.
He’d bought the house in 2002, sold off the land in 2006. I’m not sure why he was given a mortgage for the amount originally paid, unless the lender did not think that the smaller acreage didn’t impact overall value.
I’ve always felt it was a total scam in my gut and now I believe you are right - tax is owed on the land sale. I’m guessing he simply won’t report it. Just another person in America not honoring his obligations, leaving the rest of us having to pay more than our fair share.
Didn’t the bank get paid on that $80k sale? They have a lien, no?
I believe he kept it all. Maybe when he did the refi, it was for the house on reduced property and the old lender didn’t care how much property got sold off as long as they got their mortgage loan paid in full.
If he did a refi, then he likely will get attached for the gap. Sucka.
Comment by Big V
2009-03-05 15:20:08
If he did a refi, then he likely will get attached for the gap.
What do you mean “get attached”?
His wages will be attached for the difference between what he owes on the house and what the bank gets for it.
He tells me they signed a deal where the bank will NOT go after him to recover what he didn’t pay. I just wonder whether he’ll get nailed by the IRS for the sale of the land he probably hasn’t reported.
“Someone else” could anonymously report the sale.
Move out of the over priced Bay Area to one of the valley towns. Look for “income qualified” senior apartments (some 55 + some 62 +). People with disability given priority. See “After 55 housing & resource guide.” Most of all quit whining and do some research on line for senior housing. P.S. The California Tax Credit Allocation Committee requests apt complex owners to overlook foreclosures.
Good advice Suzanne.Move out of the over priced Bay Area to one of the valley towns. Look for “income qualified” senior apartments (some 55 + some 62 +). People with disability given priority. See “After 55 housing & resource guide.” Most of all quit whining and do some research on line for senior housing. P.S. The California Tax Credit Allocation Committee requests apt complex owners to overlook foreclosures.
WOW , CA overlooks foreclosures for senior housing.
In the vein of being constructive, I’d recommend walking away. There’s no way to get your money back out of the house at this point.
1. Your credit score will tank.
2. There will be a difference between the principle owed and what the bank eventually gets for the foreclosed property. That amount will likely be forgiven, but I believe that in some states the bank is allowed to sue you for it.
3. You used to be taxed on any amounts forgiven by the bank as income, but I believe that this practice has been temporarily suspended.
4. Rental rates will probably be dropping and landlords will have to be more tolerant of low credit scores, so you might want to draw out the whole process. This is just a guess, though.
Did I miss anything or am I misinformed? This is what I’ve gathered from listening to other people who’ve been foreclosed on. I have no personal experience with it.
-joe
I suppose you could also sell the pieces of the house that aren’t specifically mentioned on the loan. The place sounds like it’s practically a teardown anyhow. It’s dishonest, but our society doesn’t really value honesty anymore.
This sounds like good practical advice. I would add the following:
Advice that “you should have known” is BS, because no one can possibly be good at everything and know everything. We trust our family, friends and neighbors everyday, and it is only by making good choices in that department (well you mostly can’t choose your family) that we can by extension get valuable advice and charity when times are tough.
I’m the child of a very bitter divorce, and while economically lower middle class, there was a lot of sometimes crushing emotional upheaval and neglect. I had to teach myself many basic life skills and only as an adult have I learned that I’m not proficient at some very basic things in the “common sense” department. I’ve managed to work hard and achieve a great deal in my life academically but still make stupid mistakes out of loneliness, greed, or convenience, for example.
Anyway, if you ever read this I just want to say that it’s never too late to start making good choices, and it sounds like you need to find good people to be in your life. Don’t choose people only based on their looks, status, money or the fact that they offer easy solutions to your problems. Find people who are kind, honest, ethical and knowledgeable about their limitations-not only towards you but watch how they treat others. Take time to find the answers yourself. Strive to be the kind of person who manages to make the most out of her misfortunes, and then I can guarantee that things will improve. Don’t trust anyone who hasn’t earned your trust the hard way. Use your bad luck as an asset, be humble, learn from it and share that experience with others if you can.
Very thoughtful post, NSO.
Sorry to hear about your experience growing up, but it sounds like you’ve made the best of what you were given, and done well for yourself.
“I’M WONDERING WHAT ARE THE FEES AND CONSEQUENCES OF WALKING AWAY, PLEASE REALLY.”
A bankruptcy/real estate attorney should be able to give you a free consultation. But please, leave your medical and life history out of it. This is a business decision on your part. You’ll need a clear head, which means leaving the emotional baggage and life story behind. Get down to business.
As for consequences, yes, you will tank your credit score. You will not be able to buy a house again for a long time. Ownership, however, isn’t the only way to have a roof over your head (as anyone on this blog will tell you). Any credit you obtain in the future will likely not be on the best of terms (higher rates, lower limits, etc.). Your insurance rates are based on credit and they will go up. Employers run credit checks on hirees for certain jobs, but if you’re not applying for a sensitive position within the company and/or (if its brought up) you can reasonably explain your unusual situation (stick to the business facts & leave out the life story) you shouldn’t let this be a primary concern.
If you live in a recourse state, you will likely have to declare bankruptcy in order to erase the recourse debt obligation. Second mortgages have rules of their own too; a good attorney can help you with this stuff. Debt you take on within a certain period before filing bankruptcy may not be dischargable, so don’t go running up credit cards thinking next month’s bankruptcy will give you a free pass.
You will gain peace of mind. The crushing debt will be gone. You won’t have to worry about the mold affecting your health. The crumbling foundation won’t be fixed on your dime. You won’t suffer verbal abuse from neighbors or real estate agents. If you happen to have anything in a 401K or IRA, that money is protected from bankrupty and creditors so DON’T touch it to pay the mortgage or anything else.
I’m sure I am missing a lot. That’s why I reiterate: talk to an attorney. Oh, and keep reading Ben’s blog. Its a GREAT financial education.
Ben,
Difficult to read through to some much needed “facts” as to the person’s current $$$$$$$$$$$$ Sit-U-Ation. However, using the info from what’s been extracted below…I’d say: quit paying now! …stall as long as they can, even consider declaring BK to extend the eviction process (save every dollar for future Sit-U-Ation)…find as small & low cost rental in a smaller community that is safe…quit beating themselves up over what sounds like a house that is toast (considering repairs) anyways. Also, in the future… DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING…EVER! from someone who shows up at your door or sends you an email…. (if you can boil water, you can follow this edict)(exception for cute little kids selling cookies, just limit your purchase to no more than x5 boxes)
“RE: MY Housing Crisis - Can I walk away?”
Yes, you’ve lost your savings, do not damage your health & sanity further clinging to a lost cause, you’re not 19, you are not going to live for 60+ more years, focus on simplicity and and reduced stress.
“This was after crushing my spine, breaking my knee/ankle/arm in 72, somehow severed a rotator cuff tendon-probably trying to keep up with gardening-oh yeah, breast cancer in ‘93. This was all before being diagnosed, with an immune system disease. I also had a post radiation reaction.”
“…I spent all my savings putting lipstick on a pig (sorry,house)” &
“…But my foundation needs work, and they said termites and maybe mold.”
so taxpayers get hit again
Consult with a local housing nonprofit
change
I don’t think there are any fees or consequences to walking away anymore, are there? California is a no recourse state and taxes are now forgiven.
Move out of East Palo Alto and rent somewhere affordable before your credit is hit. Although personally, I don’t believe those credit hits are going to matter too much going forward, too many people with them.
Every child must learn by age 12…”20% down or you don’t buy, and never buy a home that is more than 2.5 times what you make”. Pretty simple…and it works.
It worked for me. And you’d better get it done by age 12, because after than the children are influenced solely by their snotty peers.
lol
I dont think that is enough.
Two dinks making 200K would endup with a house of 500K
When situation happens (job loss, parents or anything else) , they may not be able to sell the house (if they had over paid and market tanks like now).
So an additional condition is “rental value” of that house = PITI.
RE: But when I see ladies older than me wandering around the Grocery Outlet, trying to find food that they can afford. And upper middle classes with new cars starting to shop at the same overstock canned goods store…the times they are a’ changin.
Go read Cornelius Ryan’s, “The Last Battle” which is about the fall of
Berlin to the Russians in 1945.
Believe it or not, you will feel better about your situation.
All that’s goin’ down is piker’s stuff compared to what has transpired in previous history.
Unfortunately, the US has become nation of fat, lazy, entitled people who thru disinterest and general igorance have who repeatedly elect incumbent senators and representatives who have completedly squandered the industrial and financial advantages of having a competing world lay in ruin after the reign of fascism ended in Europe and the Far East.
I used to have an accountant who came from Germany. She was a child during World War II. I’ll never forget how she described Germany after the war ended: “We had NOTHING!”
One more thing: She didn’t have much patience with lazy Americans. She thought we were spoiled and didn’t know how good we have it.
That’s why I have the utmost respect for the generation(s) that lived through the Great Depression. They too understood hardship, and know what gratitude is all about. Because of history lessons from my 104 yr old granny, I re-purpose what many throw out, and I understand the value of a buck.
Slim, the fact she was allowed to live in Germany and not in Siberia as she and all Germans deserved, is more to the point.
(and yes, I realize she was probably 7 at the time)
> She didn’t have much patience with lazy Americans. She thought we were spoiled and didn’t know how good we have it.
It was Americans who made damn sure the Germans had nothing. Look what they tried when they had something.
Their society and psyche had to be rebuilt from the ground up. So will ours.
“Go read Cornelius Ryan’s, “The Last Battle” which is about the fall of
Berlin to the Russians in 1945.”
The Russians liberated the German prison camp on the North Sea where Dad was a guest after his B-17 was shot down over Leipzig. He said the Red Army was made up of sub-human savages from the non-white interior and far east, and they went totally barbaric on the hapless German civilians left behind often clipping their Achilles tendons with wire cutters so they couldn’t flee; many killed themselves rather than endure repeated savagery and starvation.
It sounds like you are about 80 years old, correct?
In that case, I think you should walk away and get a rental in a senior community. If you did not refinance your loan or HELOC it, then it’s a nonrecourse loan, so there is no need for you to think about long-term financial consequences. I’m not sure, though. Based on what you said, you may have refinanced it. If you got cash back on the refinance, then it might be a recourse loan now, in which case you will need to file bankruptcy. It’s not as bad as it sounds.
Hello to my fellow SSDI sister.
You seem to be in a highly agitated state - and rightly so. Let’s address your current state of mind.
First you have time on your side. I’m not sure what you meant by 45 days - perhaps a notice of default?
I implore you to take a few deep breaths. Please google breathing techniques and apply them to your daily routine.
I say this to you sister, because you are angry and this is not a luxury you can afford in your physical state.
I suffer from DDD, and breathing exercises are my lifeline. I can only hope you will trust me on this one.
Your attorney already advised you to walk away, but I’m sensing this is an emotionally draining exercise for you (also one of integrity - bless your soul). Do not allow your health to suffer - anxiety will not guide you, so please abandon her.
Stay in the property for as long as legally possible. Know that you have a right to go to the courthouse and challenge the legal authority of the note. With all the refinancing, many mortgage companies simply cannot produce the note in court, and the judge may throw the case out until the note holder can produce it. This may buy you more time. (I hope I’m not too late on this one).
Please, my kind sister, stop beating yourself up. And for the love of heavens, fook that neighbor! (chuckle).
As for financial classes, it’s always fun to learn. After you determine how much time you have in you current environment, and plans for a new one, please treat yourself to a new adventure! The classes are free and learning broadens our minds and feeds our souls.
If you wish to contact me, please do: barbluvsong at yahoo dot com.
Best Always,
Leigh
“Stay in the property for as long as legally possible. Know that you have a right to go to the courthouse and challenge the legal authority of the note. ”
Very good advice, and bears repeating.
Thanks NYchick.
Great information here - from so many posters.
Ben is such a gentleman. Imagine a soul looking for direction in these times.
What I love most about this community is the safety - the ability to ask ANY question and have it answered.
Such manners. And we don’t sugar coat it!
Leigh
I’ll try this again -
Hello to my fellow SSDI sister.
You seem to be in a highly agitated state - and rightly so. Let’s address your current state of mind.
First you have time on your side. I’m not sure what you meant by 45 days - perhaps a notice of default?
I implore you to take a few deep breaths. Please google breathing techniques and apply them to your daily routine.
I say this to you sister, because you are angry and this is not a luxury you can afford in your physical state.
I suffer from DDD, and breathing exercises are my lifeline. I can only hope you will trust me on this one.
Your attorney already advised you to walk away, but I’m sensing this is an emotionally draining exercise for you (also one of integrity - bless your soul). Do not allow your health to suffer - anxiety will not guide you, so please abandon her.
Stay in the property for as long as legally possible. Know that you have a right to go to the courthouse and challenge the legal authority of the note. With all the refinancing, many mortgage companies simply cannot produce the note in court, and the judge may throw the case out until the note holder can produce it. This may buy you more time. (I hope I’m not too late on this one).
Please, my kind sister, stop beating yourself up. And for the love of heavens, fook that neighbor! (chuckle).
As for financial classes, it’s always fun to learn. After you determine how much time you have in you current environment, and plans for a new one, please treat yourself to a new adventure! The classes are free and learning broadens our minds and feeds our souls.
If you wish to contact me, please do: barbluvsong at yahoo dot com.
Best Always,
Leigh
best advice of all 140+ posts.
Hope she contacts you.
To kind Muir (blush).
Hope Ben told her to read this overwhelming pour of information!
Is the poor soul too shy to post?
Leigh
Er..too kind.
Flying fracking fingers.
*eye glasses firmly in place*
Ahhhhhhhhhh.
Better,
Leigh
Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
Recomemdations please. I relly cannot find many books that hold my attention any more.
Empire of Debt, by Bill Bonner/Addison Wiggins.
Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand.
Love Atlas Shrugged. Husband gave me a hardback copy when our second child was born. We really couldn’t afford it then, so it’ doubly precious to me. One of my keeper books. Will try Empire of Debt. Thanks.
Best book of all time, but it’s out of print: The Man Who Laughs, by Victor Hugo. Good luck trying to find it, enjoy.
Alibris.com shows 137 available copies, starting at $6. They even have some pre-1900 editions for decent prices.
Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand.
Masturbation with no hands.
Greenspan was an acolyte in her inner circle.
Doesn’t surprise me that you like that filth lagirl
Liking a book does not mean that you agree with it.
Atlas Shrugged is fine, as long as you don’t take its conclusions too seriously. Skip the John Galt speech though. I thought the Unabomber had nothing on him when it comes to self-righteous craziness…
My bad wolfgirl.
Jezz I’m grouchy lately
Everyone is entitled to a bad day. Rand is someone few people are neutral on.
But Watchman opens in a couple of hours here. Hubby, daughter, and I are going. All is good.
Actually, I agree with it, filth and all.
“the man who laughs”
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12587/12587-8.txt
Gun, germs, and steel : the fates of human societies / Jared Diamond
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. This blog rocks.
Found it on line. Will order it this weekend. You can find almost anything on abe.com.
It is also available as a free download on the Project Gutenberg website (along with many other out of copyright books and most of the classics).
Even better. Thanks
We are getting another Friday the 13th this month. It happened last month too. Must be a sign.
Has my son totaly freaked.
C’mon people, don’t you know it’s bad luck to be superstitious?
I almost always have good luck on Friday the Thirteenths. Hope the one this month will be lucky for me, too. I don’t know why. Maybe it’s because I tend to zig when everyone else zags.
We have rent controls and my rent has gone from $646 in 1986 to a little over $900 now. The increase was limited to 1% for most of the time and only with going to the ombudsman has the landlord managed to get a 3% or so increase due to expenses like major repairs and natural gas increases. As a long term tenant I was also given a rent deduction but they clawed that back the last 2 years.
At the same time housing has gone up 150% in the last 10 years and doubled in the last 5 years.
There were almost zero muli-unit residential buildings constructed here from 1986 until about 5 years ago. Then some $300k condos were built. They are still building more new condos because the first ones are being flipped for $600K or more today.
plagiarized
____
The problem is all inside your ARM
She said to me
The answer is easy if you
Take it logically
I’d like to help you in your struggle
To be free
There must be fifty ways
To leave your Condo
She said it’s really not my habit
To intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning
Won’t be lost or misconstrued
But I’ll repeat myself
At the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways
To leave your Condo
Fifty ways to leave your Condo
You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don’t need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don’t need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free
She said it grieves me so
To see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do
To make you smile again
I said I appreciate that
And would you please explain
About the fifty ways
Fifty ways to leave your Condo
She said why don’t we both
Just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning
You’ll begin to see the light
And then she kissed me
And I realized she probably was right
There must be fifty ways
To leave your Condo
Fifty ways to leave your Condo
2nd attempt
__
The problem is all inside your ARM
She said to me
The answer is easy if you
Take it logically
I’d like to help you in your struggle
To be free
There must be fifty ways
To leave your Condo
She said it’s really not my habit
To intrude
Furthermore, I hope my meaning
Won’t be lost or misconstrued
But I’ll repeat myself
At the risk of being crude
There must be fifty ways
To leave your Condo
Fifty ways to leave your Condo
You just slip out the back, Jack
Make a new plan, Stan
You don’t need to be coy, Roy
Just get yourself free
Hop on the bus, Gus
You don’t need to discuss much
Just drop off the key, Lee
And get yourself free
She said it grieves me so
To see you in such pain
I wish there was something I could do
To make you smile again
I said I appreciate that
And would you please explain
About the fifty ways
Fifty ways to leave your Condo
She said why don’t we both
Just sleep on it tonight
And I believe in the morning
You’ll begin to see the light
And then she kissed me
And I realized she probably was right
There must be fifty ways
To leave your Condo
Fifty ways to leave your Condo
The consequences of walking away?
For you: nothing, maybe some money from the Government.
For me: higher taxes.
+1 Exactly, a home run! (no pun intended)