March 9, 2009

Bits Bucket For March 9, 2009

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Comment by jeff saturday
2009-03-09 04:58:13

FDIC has funds but would like ‘bigger cushion’March 9, 2009 7:47 AM E

All Associated Press newsWASHINGTON (AP) - The head of the agency that insures bank deposits said Monday it has plenty of money to cover any failures this year.

Sheila Bair, the chairwoman of the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., said the agency has set aside $22 billion to cover any projected losses over the next year, leaving $19 billion. The deposit insurance fund now stands at its lowest level in nearly a quarter-century and is raising the assessment on banks and thrifts to give it more money in reserve.

Comment by jfp
2009-03-09 06:43:30

The deposit insurance fund now stands at its lowest level in nearly a quarter-century and is raising the assessment on banks and thrifts to give it more money in reserve.

I wonder if they’ll run into the same problem raising rates that HOAs have? From what I’ve read about it, the FDIC rates are biased against small banks to begin with.

Comment by packman
2009-03-09 06:57:10

Not so much biased against small banks as biased against responsible banks. Much of their proposed fee increase is based only on deposit levels of the banks, not on the risk level of the bank’s investments. So the responsible banks get screwed. It’s a lot easier to make money on risky investments when you know you have a government backstop if you screw up.

 
 
Comment by hd74man
2009-03-09 08:28:33

RE: FDIC has funds but would like ‘bigger cushion’March 9, 2009 7:47 AM E

Pete Schiff on the FDIC…

…counter point provided by the 60 Minutes segement last night with Joe Gobbels Award Winner Sheila Blair expliciting noting that the FDIC is backed by the FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxJkIpBxLSs

Comment by denquiry
2009-03-09 11:33:08

Joe Gobbels Award Winner Sheila Blair expliciting noting that the FDIC is backed by the FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE US FEDERAL GOVERNMENT!
————————————————————————-
I can’t wipe my $ss with full faith and credit. Instead give me a roll of toilet paper.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-09 13:05:49

FDIC has funds but would like ‘bigger cushion’March 9, 2009 7:47 AM E

FDIC data team has discovered that the bigger cushion makes for “sweeter pushin’” News at 11.

MrBubble

 
 
Comment by charliegator in Gainesville, Florida
2009-03-09 10:49:28

Last night CBS 60 min. had a good report on an FDIC takeover of a bank in Georgia. They we’re allowed to follow the whole process. Very interesting program.

 
 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-03-09 05:13:41

AIG is beginning to read like one big giant Ponzi scheme. Instead of an investigation, we get more doom and gloom (PR/spin) justification.

March 9 (Bloomberg) — American International Group Inc. appealed for its fourth U.S. rescue by telling regulators the company’s collapse could cripple money-market funds, force European banks to raise capital, cause competing life insurers to fail and wipe out the taxpayers’ stake in the firm.

“What happens to AIG has the potential to trigger a cascading set of further failures which cannot be stopped except by extraordinary means,’’ said the presentation by New York- based AIG. “Insurance is the oxygen of the free enterprise system. Without the promise of protection against life’s adversities, the fundamentals of capitalism are undermined.’’

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 05:21:56

An oz. of prevention is worth trillions in bailouts. The oxygen of capitalism is the lack of government guarantees and intervention. If you remove the “risk” of failure, people will take bigger risks. If you remove personal responsibility and instead create “social” responsibility then each individual will take the profits and socialize the losses… thus creating more losses.

If insurance companies did not have an implied or implicit government bailout then their policy prices would be much higher which would have stopped some of the cancerous “economic” growth.

Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-03-09 07:35:41

USA hasn’t been capitalist since 1913

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-09 14:09:50

Give me a break. The USA has never been a capitalist society.

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Comment by Skip
2009-03-09 07:38:40

Insurance companies are required to actually have a little bit of money set aside to pay claims.

Also, people are well aware that even if they have a legitimate claim, they may not get paid for it no matter what political party you happen to be Senate Minority Leader for( See Trent Lott ) and often times the payout is never the same as your loss.

AIG has no assets and pays out 100% of loss? Thats no insurance company.

 
Comment by Jon
2009-03-09 09:26:25

“If insurance companies did not have an implied or implicit government bailout then their policy prices would be much higher which would have stopped some of the cancerous “economic” growth.”

True, but it was necessary to hide the true negative economic growth that’s been happening since the early ’90’s.

Take away the dot.com bubble, the housing bubble & the inflated stock markets & and the only “growth” you have is WalMart & healthcare premiums.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-09 16:53:59

…and food banks.

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Comment by palmetto
2009-03-09 05:40:45

Blackmail is what it is, pure and simple. I believe blackmail is a pretty serious offense in this country.

However, the sheeple and this CONgress are largely controlled by fear anyway. A little anger is what’s needed.

Comment by combotechie
2009-03-09 05:46:35

“A little fear is what’s needed.”

Stand by. Fear is well on it’s way.

 
 
Comment by yogurt
2009-03-09 07:01:34

“Insurance is the oxygen of the free enterprise system. Without the promise of protection against life’s adversities, the fundamentals of capitalism are undermined.’’

That is completely backwards. Capitalism depends on those who make bad investments having to eat their losses.

Insurance is for unforeseen events with external causes, like a house fire or a car accident, not for things likes losses on bonds with inadequate collateral, which are a consequence of bad lending decisions.

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 11:40:20

Insurance is only insurance if the insurer is actually able to cover the loss. For an insurer to cover the loss they must have very liquid assets on hand to easily cover all potential losses times the probability of those losses.

If I were to sell a multi-billion dollar insurance policy and collect interest payments it would be fraud because in the even that the insured event occurred I would be forced to default.

The line between fraud / legitimate risk management depends entirely upon how I represent my “ability to pay” to the individual buying the insurance. This includes both parties agreeing on the “probability of default”.

As you can see, the buyer of insurance is responsible for the counter-party-risk associated with the insurance. Anyone who buys “cheap insurance” is also “buying” greater counter-party-risk and therefore responsible for that action.

The proponents of bailouts attempt to argue that the “insured parties” are not responsible for “under paying” for their insurance. This is hog wash. You get what you pay for.

Then again our government seems to claim that “insurance” “costs nothing” when it more than doubles FDIC with a stroke of a pen.

 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-09 07:03:37

At least the taxpayer is not directly on the hook for Madoff.

Comment by Blano
2009-03-09 07:48:50

How is the SIPC funded??

Comment by rainmayun
2009-03-09 09:26:21

I thought hedge funds weren’t covered by the SIPC.

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Comment by SUGuy
2009-03-09 12:24:15

I will not be surprise but some what expect that madoff victims might be bailed out by the Govt. The rich will be able to buy the influence and convince the politicians for their bailout too. I think that’s why the media keeps the victimization part of this story going. These days I expect all kinds of crazy financial schemes to be cooked by the Govt and fed us the tax payers with cockamamie explanations.

The real victims are the responsible tax payers, with their future and the country being destroyed financially. Sorry/rant off

Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-09 14:11:25

What makes you think any of the rich that invested with Madoff have any money left to buy the influence.

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Comment by SUGuy
2009-03-09 15:28:11

Your statement assumes the rich put all their eggs in a madoff basket. I doubt if that was the case. The pols will also believe if they get the rich victims back most of their money there will be some money thrown their way. Its just the nature of a symbiotic relationship.

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-09 21:39:22

Your statement assumes because you’re rich you must be smart.

 
 
 
 
Comment by denquiry
2009-03-09 11:37:02

How is what AIG doing any different than what madoff is doing? IMO, they are both ponzi schemes.

Comment by SUGuy
2009-03-09 15:49:13

AIG = 10 Madoff

The difference is with Madoff there could be some recovery of money with AIG there is nothing but loses

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-09 17:03:56

Marine Insurance Act of 1746. Google it.

AIG is not only the poster child of this whole mess, but the linchpin as well. If they are not “soft landed” and unwound with care, you can bet 100% on world war.

 
 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-09 13:07:00

Time to put this pig to sleep. I’m tired of this f***ing company. AIG…DIE!

 
Comment by Leighsong
2009-03-09 16:39:17

AIG presentation dated Feb. 26, labeled as “strictly confidential” and circulated among federal and state regulators.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13112282/Aig-Systemic-090309

Sigh,
Leigh

Comment by ahansen
2009-03-09 21:32:56

Dreadful reading until you get to page 20…when it just turns horrifying. AIG=PRC.
Yikes.

 
 
 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 05:15:58

About the stock market bottom… I keep hearing people say things based upon the premiss that prices are at or below pre-bubble year - X; therefore, they are now fairly valued and we can start looking to jump back in.

I think this approach completely ignores fundamentals. Back in pre-bubble year - X the fundamentals of just about every company were much better than these companies today; therefore, the values of most companies should fall significantly below their “pre-bubble” price.

Think about it, in the past 10 - 15 years consumer debt has gone through the roof, corporate debt has gone through the roof. Both of these factors serve to undermine potential future revenue today vs potential future revenue 10 to 15 years ago. Further more, companies must deal with significant capital loss due to bad bets and higher interest payments.

Just like people on this board do not like to value houses based upon “comps”, but instead look at real fundamentals like rent/income/financing etc, lets not make the same mistake with “comps” of stocks pre/post bubble.

Comment by mrktMaven
2009-03-09 05:45:00

Never romanticize the markets. It’s a brute. It doesn’t care about your retirement, your kids’ college fund, or any of your personal goals. If you buy near the bottom, remember to sell and take profits near the top. Don’t wait. Don’t hesitate. Cash it in.

Comment by Rancher
2009-03-09 06:27:44

Any profit is a good profit. Take it.

 
Comment by yogurt
2009-03-09 07:03:45

. If you buy near the bottom, remember to sell and take profits near the top.

Well that’s nice, but how do you know that you’re selling near the top? You don’t know when you’re buying if you’re near the bottom, either.

Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-09 07:21:03

Somebody recounted the following YEARS ago here.
Student: “How do you make money on the stock market?”
Professor: “Buy low and sell high”
Student: “But everbody knows that,”
Professor: “Yes, but what everybody tries to do is buy lowest and sell highest.”

Me, I don’t think that we’re near bottom. But we’re closer than we were a year (or two or ten) ago. I spent 2007 shifting my 401(k) deeper and deeper into treasuries, until it was 88% treasuries by Feb 2007. Next year, or possibly late this year, I’ll start shifting funds back into the market. Trying to find the exact bottom or top is a crapshoot. Putting money in the market now might be like 1932. More losses to come, but you’re not going to completely lose your shirt like the people who jumped on in 1929.

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Comment by Skip
2009-03-09 08:00:11

Putting money in the market now might be like 1932. More losses to come, but you’re not going to completely lose your shirt like the people who jumped on in 1929.

Or it might be like 1873 and you will completely lose your shirt.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-09 10:03:04

Skip: Absoloutely, that’s why I’ll never go “all in,” OR “all out.” At the end of the day though, it is dividends that give you “house odds,” in the stock market. And if that’s the fundamental you look at, we’ve got along way to go before stocks are “correctly” priced.

 
Comment by robin
2009-03-09 19:46:37

How many dividends have been reduced by very considerable percentages in recent weeks? I expect the trend to continue.

 
 
 
Comment by hd74man
2009-03-09 08:18:04

RE: Never romanticize the markets. It’s a brute. It doesn’t care about your retirement, your kids’ college fund, or any of your personal goals. If you buy near the bottom, remember to sell and take profits near the top. Don’t wait. Don’t hesitate. Cash it in.

Out of curiosity, MM…

Have you substantially profited by shorting this debacle?

Extraneous, to some contrarian hedgie guys, noted by the alternate media I don’t know anybody.

A couple years ago I remember reading a poster on some investment blog that this all is a once in a lifetime opportunity to ride the stock market down.

I sold out a couple months after the top-but never ventured into the short waters, basically out of ignorance.

 
Comment by scdave
2009-03-09 09:15:28

I have never owned even one share of stock…I am tempted right now…

 
 
Comment by oxide
2009-03-09 05:56:41

I admit it; it was I who had been wondering about fundamentals. But you make a good point about companies needing to recover the fundamentals they used to have. So when was the last time fundamentals were solid? Before excessive debt was allowed, before accounting tricks eclipsed fundamentals, before bubbles, before the DOW was propped by massive government spending, before banks dropped their reserve ratios…anything that doesn’t relate to supply/demand or business models.

So take the DOW in say, 1974. It doesn’t really matter exactly when, because The DOW hovered 900-1000 for 1960 to 1980.* Adjust for inflation, then subtract some % for expenses that companies will to incur to rev back up to 1974 levels. (take equip out of mothballs, re-hire…) That would be the bottom.

Should I really call a bottom at 750!?

*according to Wiki. There was an extordinary rise in 1980-2000.

Comment by oxide
2009-03-09 05:59:44

Oh wait, I have to adjust for inflation. That would make the Dow…4000? I give up.

Comment by packman
2009-03-09 06:03:27

See my chart below (link will show up eventually) of inflation-adjusted DJI. A historical-based bottom would be somewhere around 2,000-3,000 or so.

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Comment by Reuven
2009-03-09 08:33:15

I bought NYSE:DOG at Dow 10,000 and I’m not even thinking of taking a profit yet….

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-09 10:08:17

Good call!

 
 
 
 
Comment by packman
2009-03-09 05:58:46

Yes but part of the problem with “fundamentals” is that they can also be bubble-based. That’s why historical perspective is so important.

Best example is earnings. One would think that stocks should be valued based on earnings + assets, because that’s supposedly the “fundamental” value of the company. But what if those earnings are based on a bubble economy - as so much of the recent earnings have been? That means the supposed fundamentals themselves are flawed.

The same is true to some extent for rent, so even rent:price ratios may be flawed, because rent may be high. I think that’s the case now. Rents are high because people are flocking out of foreclosures into apartments and stable rental homes. So in the end there’s going to a flip in the rent:price ratios. Does this mean that then home prices will be low relative to fundamentals? Not necessarily - it’s that rents are high. There will still be a huge overhang in empty homes, so prices are going to keep going down long after the rent:price ratio is back to its supposed fundamental values (it’s already there in many places).

Comment by packman
2009-03-09 06:01:40

To add to that - here’s a

chart showing inflation-adjusted DJI since 1928. From my view - we’re still very much in a stock market bubble, and have been since the mid-1980’s.

Comment by bluprint
2009-03-09 06:59:00

packman, where did you get or find this chart? IOW, what is the source?

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Comment by packman
2009-03-09 08:09:23

I created the chart.

The data sources are CPI published by BLS (e.g. see this source, and the DJI index, found anywhere.

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-09 08:12:24

Trying again - see this source for CPI data.

 
Comment by bluprint
2009-03-09 10:21:18

ok, thanks.

 
Comment by reuven
2009-03-09 15:11:14

Another interesting thing to look at is historical P/E

http://i.investopedia.com/inv/articles/site/techanalysis/020404_1.gif

As you can see from this chart, we’re WAY over historical averages.

If you read old investment books, they tell you to question any stock with a P/E above 12 or so. For some reason, TPTB have convinced us that things have changed and P/Es of 20 or more are acceptable.

I say Bull$hit!

The market can still fall quite a bit! (And I’m betting it will.) I notice in todays WSJ that BO is now talking up the stock market…

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-09 19:12:15

Thanks for the link! Saved.

The thing to keep in mind right now too is that earnings are going down - big time, and will be below historic norms for a few years to come still, so prices should be also. So yes I agree - the market is still too expensive.

 
 
Comment by Moman
2009-03-09 07:34:33

Based on that chart, the bottom should be around 6000, so we are close.

(Roughly determined by drawing an upward sloping plane from 1980 to today)

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Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 07:48:57

I think you missed my whole point about using historical values to determine a bottom. Your *assumption* of an upward sloping plane from 1980 until today is arbitrary and based upon the assumption that absent a “bubble” everything else would be equal adjusted for “inflation”. It ignores that the bubble misallocated resources in addition to overvaluing companies. It ignores the fact that from 1980 until recently boomers were plowing money into their 401Ks and leaving it there… for the next 20 years boomers will be pulling money out faster than the next generation is putting it in.

DOW 2K is where we are headed.

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-09 08:10:39

What he said.

 
Comment by Moman
2009-03-09 08:25:42

I hear you, but taking into account the massive population growth in the past 20 years, we should have some real growth in those numbers, outside of the inflation adjusted total.

The real interesting point is that if new inflows will be able to outweight the boomer outflows when they cash out investments.

Plus, the growth in 401k and personal investment vehicles has exposed more people to the markets than ever before in history.

 
Comment by jbunniii
2009-03-09 09:05:35

Based on that chart, the bottom should be around 6000, so we are close.

Maybe the equilibrium level is 6000, once the economy stabilizes. But nothing prevents an overcorrection, especially with corporate profits in freefall. It wouldn’t surprise me even slightly if we saw 4000 before things turn around.

 
Comment by scdave
2009-03-09 09:34:46

until recently boomers were plowing money into their 401Ks and leaving it there… for the next 20 years boomers will be pulling money out faster than the next generation is putting it in ??

I agree VTdan….I think the actions of the boomers are the elephant in the room…Basically, their consumption days are over other than health care and some leisure…

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-09 10:11:52

scdave: I sometimes wonder whether that’s why stock market has reacted so quickly and severly to the bursting of the RE bubble. We’re BOUND to see the effect of those BBers who saved trying to convert their stock certificates into depends and golf club memberships. It’s possible that what price declines that we’ve seen are simply because in aggregate the BBers have maxed out on their retirement contributions. And that just like RE, the equities market was priced on the expectation of ever larger amounts of money being put into it: It couldn’t stay flat at 2007 levels any more than the RE market.

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 11:44:12

Moman, population growth is irrelevant for stock prices gains. If anything population growth should shrink stock prices as it puts more goods on the market seeking the same number dollars. Inflation is above and beyond the natural deflation caused by population growth (increasing productivity of society).

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-09 06:40:34

It might be constructive now, to remember the old adage -”That’s the way the cookie crumbles”.

The economy we have known for the duration of our lives is crumbling, not merely shrinking. There are extremely important distictions here.

Where there was once money to be made playing the equity markets like a yo-yo,( buy low, sell high, wait, and repeat), that era may have already passed. What was once “low” may become unattainably “high” soon.

Simply put, the dis-integration of financial markets we are witnessing is best described as the crumbling of a system, not a temporary low in a system which will last forever.

You can call it paradigm shift, or New World Order, or the Gift of the Illuminati.

The reason that every “remedy”, “fix”, “plan” or “attempt” to stabilize the world’s financial markets to date has FAILED MISERABLY is that the “system” is evolving into something else.

GLTA.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-09 07:36:38

blue,
I liked tour post but what does GLTA stand for?
When I googled it says Gay and Lesbian Tennis Alliance.
Ahhh, acronym finder doesn’t help either.

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Comment by bluto
2009-03-09 08:14:50

Good luck to all?

 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-09 10:16:30

thx bluto

 
 
Comment by Al
2009-03-09 08:32:57

I don’t really think the system is evolving. The invisible hand is still doing it’s thing the same as always. This appears like an evolution simply because of the magnitude and number of factors to which the invisible hand is reacting.

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Comment by NYchk
2009-03-09 09:20:14

“The economy we have known for the duration of our lives is crumbling”, “the “system” is evolving into something else”.

I’m pretty much a “doom & gloom” gal myself, but I think the above is an exagerration. Financial markets are not going anywhere, the “system” will continue. (Global power shift is another story.)

It’s important to remember that banking - lending - existed almost as long as humanity itself. Global players might lose their place in the current pecking order, but the global financial “system” will continue.

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Comment by Jon
2009-03-09 09:40:55

What is changing is the economic system where the United States imports finished goods in exchange for debt. That system, which subsidized American households to the tune of $10,000/year, is rapidly devolving.

Unfortunately, it has left the United States far weaker economically than at any time since the Great Depression. And, possibly even worse, there is no global paradigm ready to step in and replace it.

I am a big doom & gloomer. Not because the problem isn’t fixable, but because folks can’t admit what the problem is. Because when you do, you realize just how much has to change.

 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-09 10:35:12

“I am a big doom & gloomer. Not because the problem isn’t fixable, but because folks can’t admit what the problem is. Because when you do, you realize just how much has to change.”

Well said, Jon.

 
Comment by james
2009-03-09 11:18:43

“I am a big doom & gloomer. Not because the problem isn’t fixable, but because folks can’t admit what the problem is. Because when you do, you realize just how much has to change.”

So, what has to change? We need to consume less. Easy. Buy smaller cars and less junk. We all admit that we desire that; but apparently we meant we want others to do that. Fine. Mr Market will force that change.

We need to produce more. OK. So we need businesses and products. While some people abhor the idea of getting a job most of us welcome it. In fact, the entire consuming without producing has been a social drain. Just like kids who receive things with out working for them, our whole society has had a bad attitude because we aren’t working for what we’ve been getting.

If consumption increases in someplace like China/India we should be able to balance things out. That is if we just let the bad bank debt go and don’t get involved in trying to prop that up. The market distortions from proping up the bad debt will make further malinvestment and kill potential recovery.

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 11:50:51

james,
Please do not trivialize what needs to change. What needs to change is the structure of our government / monetary system. No amount of “savings” or “production” can compensate for the flaws in our monetary system which lead to malinvstements. It is impossible to “save” our way out of this debt-based money because it is impossible to pay off all of the debts + interest.

It is near impossible for most individuals to take the innovative steps necessary to repair the economy because the government forbids them, taxes them out of profitability, or subsidizes the competition.

 
Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 12:12:13

James,
Also… we need to drop the entire notion that *consumption* is necessary for a healthy economy. If we could eliminate all *consumption* then we could increase our wealth dramatically. All consumption is a net-drag on wealth creation and long-term happiness.

Obviously our enjoyment of the present is related to consumption today, and our enjoyment of the future is related to saving today’s consumption for tomorrow *or* investing in productive assets that increase the number of goods available for consumption tomorrow above and beyond the consumption forgone today.

Consumption is *NOT* the engine of our economy, savings is the engine of our economy… and it is running on its last cylinder. The government is attempting to consume all remaining fuel (savings) in an effort to stimulate fuel consumption in the false belief that burning more fuel will make the engine run better. Instead the engine will stall because it cannot produce enough new fuel to keep the tank full! The analogy is mixed.. but you should get the idea.

Think of the economy as a “free-energy” machine that, when healthy, creates more wealth than was input into the economy. The initial wealth (savings) can be consumed or used to produce. The economy is not driven by consumption, it is driven by savings and production. Everyone who says consumption is necessary to improve the economy completely misses the boat.

Obama’s plan is to burn through our savings to increase consumption which will result in reduction of savings available for production. The net effect of this policy is less wealth tomorrow than we have today combined with devalued dollars.

 
Comment by james
2009-03-09 16:52:05

A couple of things. I think the answers are pretty simple. The government should be doing a whole lot of nothing. Banks are going to fail and bondholders are going to take it in the shorts. That is what is supposed to happen. Anything else just creates a larger distortion.

So. My plan is to do nothing. The system will self correct. The problem, at this point, is the intervention.

Take the remaining TARP money and make a bank for businesses with low leverage. It will attract deposits pretty fast. Make that part public and part private. That will support the loan channels for business and regional banks. If Wells, Citi, BOA can’t compete; let them go under.

In the future legislation and enforcement bodies need to be empowered to keep the financial sector from large scale over leveraging. Of course if you let the investors and depositors eat some serious losses then you might not need to legislate much of anything. However, I’d say the propensity for fraud and widespread economic distortions mean we should have better limits on banks.

Obviously we can’t eliminate all consumption nor do I desire that. Basically we would all live in tents, walk to work and only have electricity for emergencies.

Obama’s plan is… well… I don’t think he has one. Basically its just the mother of all spending bills with almost nothing innovative at all. Kind of what I expected from him. You could see in the debates that off the scripted oratory there isn’t much but a pretty face.

My personal enjoyment of today doesn’t necessarily come from consumption. I’m sure many would agree too. However, if another mercantilist state, like China, wants to dump a bunch of goods on a doorstep at a loss, then let them. Eventually, after we default, they will probably try a new plan. Just have to make sure we have a nice millitary so that in any petty discussions on important stuff like world domination, oil, goat cheese prices exc, that we have might on our side.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-09 07:25:00

It could be a five year bear for the stock indices as they range in the early 1990s level. They will bounce back at some point when there is realization that the savings rate is substantial and the household credit mess is cleaned up. The indices may be trading below true market value for several years. The nice thing is tht it will give people a chance to load up on index funds by selling off their winnings in gold bullion. Gold is surely to rise as people are fixated on safety for quite awhile.

Comment by robin
2009-03-09 21:08:17

How would the market be influenced if and when we get the Buffett-predicted inflation and instruments like insured CDs are again paying 8 to 10% ??

 
 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-09 07:42:51

This bottom could also be affected by some printing.
I found it funny the Sheila Bair was on 60 minutes assuring the Nation that she had their back.
Earlier posters on FDIC pointed out that FDIC may need money.
If printing presses start thats the bottom.

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 07:58:43

Printing presses can be used to create a nominal bottom, but not a real bottom. The effect of printing presses on the ability of companies to calculate *real* profit causes increasing *real losses* and a resulting real decline in the stock market.

I don’t care so much about “nominal bottoms” and if you are *smart* your investment strategy will be based upon *real* returns, not nominal returns. As such, stocks are a very poor way to get real returns in a highly inflationary environment (hint, you get taxed on the inflationary gain which eats into your real return causing you to need 2-3% real return on the stock just to *BREAK EVEN* after taxes. Furthermore, unless you *pick and choose*, the entire stock market only ever rises with inflation.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-09 08:11:43

Thank you VT,

What’s someone like me that is not sophisticated to do then?
TIPS?

I’m all cash with some physical gold right now.
Just trying to have a plan in place for and if the printing presses start.

Maybe it’s needless worry (probably) because were no where near there.

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Comment by lainvestorgirl
2009-03-09 09:37:54

dba, uso

 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-09 10:04:13

I’ll wait but thx.
It was more a rhetorical question.
But food and oil can’t be a bad bet.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by exeter
2009-03-09 05:27:28

The Banking TaskMasters are marching out that dingbat Erin Burnett to diffuse, misdirect and generally blow smoke of the a$$ of every US citizen. She’s been on Maher and 3 other national shows since Friday nite. As if her sanctimonious excuse making for the wealthy elite on KudlBlow wasn’t enough.

Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-09 06:39:35

Would you care to summarize what she said?

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-09 06:53:22

Hi exeter,

Please note that we agree on this 100%.

TEOMEIMF,

cb

 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-09 07:00:18

When did she suddenly become an expert??

Comment by oxide
2009-03-09 07:40:48

Did she “write a book?” That seems to be all you need these days, when a pundit’s credentials consist of “is the author of…”

That’s one of the few things I like about FOX news. When they interview someone, they flash the real resume, including college degrees and job positions.

Comment by patient renter
2009-03-09 10:27:05

Yea but who even cares about that crap? The last two Fed chairmen both missed the housing bubble entirely. Impeccable credentials, but worthless otherwise.

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Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-03-09 21:47:48

She has a BA from Williams College. No graduate degree, but at 32, there is still time for that after she finishes her national tour.

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Comment by exeter
2009-03-09 08:34:30

“When did she suddenly become an expert??”

I dunno but there are a few around here that hold her in high regard if I remember correctly.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-09 13:23:24

I’m not really listening to anything she’s saying, but my eyes are glued to the TV. ;)

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Comment by DennisN
2009-03-09 09:52:29

Is she Carol Burnett’s kid?

 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-09 05:27:36

This is a repost of my Landlord Nation post from last night, only it’s in Yahoo now:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/ap_on_bi_ge/landlord_nation

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-09 07:44:04

“In the past few months, I’ve picked up 10 new clients from out of state that are buying in bulk,” said Mike Shannon, a suburban Detroit real estate agent. His office specializes in foreclosures in a city that’s among the national leaders.

“They’re coming to us, saying `Look, I want to buy 50, 100, 1,000.’ They want to own every decent and cheap house they can find.”

OK, I can entertain the notion of buying a few cheap houses after visiting the property and walking the surrounding area. But a lot of these would-be slumlords have never seen the properties they’re buying, or even been to Detroit, for that matter. Do they have any idea what they’re getting into?

Blano, did you see the article about Cleveland’s housing problems that ran in the NYT magazine this past weekend? (I’ll find the link.) They’re having many similar issues, but I think Detroit has already sunk farther than Cleveland, with no end in sight.

Comment by John
2009-03-09 08:37:44

I had an uncle who was a slum lord. It can be an incredibly profitable venture but 99.99% of the people in this world don’t have the stones for it. The .01% of the people that do are people you don’t really want to know.

 
Comment by Ann
2009-03-09 08:38:01

Good luck collecting your rent from any of those properties..unless you go section 8…and even then good luck getting a repair person to go in there to fix anything…

Comment by Blano
2009-03-09 09:06:55

That’s what most of them are going to do…..Section 8.

I have an investor friend who is selling a few of these to out of towners herself. It’s all about ROI with these properties.

My friend is trying to help out a Florida mortgage broker who got ripped off on the first 10 properties he bought in the city of Detroit sight unseen. Talk about karma!!!! :)

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Comment by jbunniii
2009-03-09 08:50:19

Imagine the liability in the likely scenario in which crackheads occupy the house, or more mundanely someone “slips and falls” and inevitably sues. It sounds like anything but “quite good fun” to me.

Comment by scdave
2009-03-09 09:59:16

Imagine the liability ???

Ding, Ding, Ding….We have a winner…Exactly jbunniii…

One unresponsive act by a landlord (At least in Cali.) could expose you to massive liability…All you need to do is watch the plaintiff lawyers around here to know that “slum land lording” is just tooooooo risky..

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Comment by Blano
2009-03-09 09:01:53

No I hadn’t seen it, but I see the link here now and will read it.

I do think Detroit’s is worse than Cleveland’s. A local blogger wrote that he went on google to look at the city, and the barren wastelands you can see are nothing short of mind boggling.

In the middle of these wastelands come all these out of town landlords. Good luck with that.

 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-09 09:32:32

It’s not a problem… because “housing only goes up!?!”

But if that were true, there wouldn’t be slums… Hmmm… deep thoughts for the sheeple…

Hehehe…

 
Comment by sfrenter
2009-03-09 11:34:04

That article in the NY Times was chilling.

Go ahead, call me a socialist, but these folks buying hundreds or thousands of foreclosed houses is just wrong.

I hope they lose their shirts. If not, this is going to turn out to be a massive transfer of wealth.

I agree that not everyone is able to or should own their own home, but philosophically, morally, ideally, in a democracy, how much of the population should be propertied and what percentage should be renters?

Do we really want a small group of moneyed elites being the landholders and the rest of the citizens paying them for use of their land/house?

I asked this question here on HBB before, but readers didn’t really get at what I was really asking.

How much of the population should own and how much should rent?

Comment by Terry
2009-03-09 12:13:02

A group of people buy up thousands of forclosed upon houses. Does this sound familar? Could it be the government is out their buying up these properties? Is there a new plunge protection team working the housing market? After all, whomever owns the land, owns the people on it! Acorn buys, acorn sells to low income and votes are bought forever…….naw, our government wouldn’t do that! Wanna bet?

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Comment by NYchk
2009-03-09 18:50:42

“Do we really want a small group of moneyed elites being the landholders and the rest of the citizens paying them for use of their land/house?”

A very good question. I’m afraid we won’t like the answer, if Obama persists with his “lets keep housing values up by any cost” policy.

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Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-09 07:45:59

The Cleveland piece, All Boarded Up.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-09 10:49:32

:-) confirms all the posts above

“So much here defies reasonableness. It’s what Brancatelli keeps telling me. A few months ago, he met with Luis Jimenez, a train conductor from Long Beach, Calif. Jimenez had purchased a house in Brancatelli’s ward on eBay and had come to Cleveland to resolve some issues with the property. The two-story house has a long rap sheet of bad deals. Since 2001, it has been foreclosed twice and sold four times, for prices ranging from $87,000 to $1,500. Jimenez bought it for $4,000. When Jimenez arrived in Cleveland, he learned that the house had been vacant for two years; scavengers had torn apart the walls to get the copper piping, ripped the sinks from the walls and removed the boiler from the basement. He also learned that the city had condemned the house and would now charge him to demolish it. Brancatelli asked Jimenez, What were you thinking, buying a house unseen, from 2,000 miles away? “It was cheap,” Jimenez shrugged. He didn’t want to walk away from the house, but he didn’t have the money to renovate. The property remains an eyesore. “Generally, I’m an optimist, but none of this makes sense,” Brancatelli told me. “Trying to give order to all this chaos is the big challenge”

 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-09 09:18:39

As if Detroit didn’t have enough problems already, its political class is making bad decisions left and right.

Interesting column here:
Elect a crazy council, get crazy results.

Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-09 10:36:34

TEST. dammit 3 x and counting.

Comment by whino
2009-03-09 11:45:53

If your getting error messages, e-mail them to Ben. He asked everyone to cut and paste them in an e-mail yesterday.

I hope this helps you. :-)

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Comment by Blano
2009-03-09 12:19:50

Just a bunch of racist pigs on the City Council.

They accused Oakland County Executive Brooks Patterson (white) of calling them (black City Council) “monkeys.” What he really said was that the city is turning into a zoo. He’s right.

 
 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-09 05:30:46

March 9, 2009
At Foreclosure Auction, Houses Sell, in a Frenzy

By Fernanda Santos, NYTimes

In rapid-fire speech that resembled a horse-race announcer’s, an auctioneer introduced the first of the day’s 375 properties: a seven-bedroom, five-bathroom home in Roselle, N.J., with an estimated value of $565,000 and a starting bid of $129,000. (Final sale price: $245,000.)

On the floor, four men called the bids, screaming, blowing whistles, thrusting their arms into the air and using their fingers to signal how much more was being offered over the last bid.

“One man’s misery is another man’s fortune,” the saying goes, and perhaps nowhere was it more true than at the Jacob K. Javits Convention Center on Sunday, where a mob of potential buyers convened for an auction of foreclosed homes, a fast-paced and somewhat unusual happening in a place more used to trade shows and corporate events.

Some 1,400 people were there, a crowd twice as large as the one last year, when the California-based Real Estate Disposition Corporation held its first foreclosure auction in the city, in a conference room at a Midtown hotel. But there were not nearly as many foreclosed houses then as there are now, said the corporation’s chairman, Robert Friedman.

“The economy is much more severe these days,” Mr. Friedman added. “We’re seeing more foreclosures than any other time in the 19 years we’ve been in business, and we have auctions almost every day all across the country, sometimes more than one auction a day.”

Comment by yogurt
2009-03-09 07:09:31

That same act was playing in California a couple of years ago. Look at the picture - it’s even the same guy in the tuxedo.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/10/business/yourmoney/10natreal.html

Just goes to show you the NYC area bust is just getting warmed up. California is now way past these sham auctions.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-09 08:39:27

Yogurt,

The events playing out are truly deja vu moments here in the northeast. Everything ocurring here is a snapshot of CA and FL circa 2006. Fear is in the drivers seat as nobody seems to be denying reality anymore in the northeast. At least there isn’t any more of the blatant, loudmouthed denial. It’s happening and the RE moonbats are mum.

Take a look at nysar dot com and pull up January numbers. Sit down before you fall out of your chair.

 
 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-09 07:23:50

estimated value of $565,000 by whom?

Comment by tresho
2009-03-09 07:28:52

estimated value of $565,000 by whom? By the experts who have failed to predict the current crisis, of course.

Comment by mikey
2009-03-09 08:04:00

Other than the clowns being in tuxedos and the lack of cotton candy, it looks like carnies hustling and fleecing the local rubes in 1950’s “B” movie carnival sideshow scene.

You can almost imagine old Oil can Harry and the rest of the cartoon crooks rubbing their hands and salivating behind the curtains :)

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-09 10:52:14

“On the floor, four men called the bids, screaming, blowing whistles, thrusting their arms into the air and using their fingers to signal how much more was being offered over the last bid.”

That’s how I described it when I went to REDC auction in Palm Beach.

“estimated value of $565,000 by whom?”
Peak sale at hight of bubble.
No, I’m not kidding.

 
 
 
Comment by rms
2009-03-09 07:49:46

Real Fear: Mark to Market

Comment by mikey
2009-03-09 08:05:37

Amen rms…I’ve been saying that for several years :)

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Comment by wmbz
2009-03-09 05:32:43

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Warren Buffett said on Monday that the U.S. economy had “fallen off a cliff” and eventually would recover, although a rebound could rekindle inflation worse than experienced in the late 1970s.

Speaking on CNBC television, the 78-year-old billionaire also said the economy was mere hours away from collapse in September, when credit markets seized up, Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc went bankrupt and insurer American International Group Inc got its first bailout. “The world almost did come to a stop,” he said.

Buffett also called on banks to “get back to banking” and said an overwhelmingly number would “earn their way out” of the recession, even if stockholders don’t go along for the ride.

“A bank that’s going to go broke should be allowed to go broke,” but customers should not worry about their insured deposits, he said. Buffett said there was a “paralysis of confidence” in banks, which he called “silly” because of safeguards such as deposit insurance.

Buffett spoke nine days after telling shareholders of his Omaha, Nebraska-based insurance and investment company Berkshire Hathaway Inc that the economy was in a “shambles” likely to persist beyond 2009.

On Monday, Buffett said the economy was experiencing “close to the worst-case” scenario, with business activity declining and unemployment rising, and that the economy “can’t turn around on a dime.”

He said Americans, including himself, did not predict the severity of the decline in the housing prices, which then led to problems with securitizations, complex debt and other instruments whose value depended on home prices continuing to rise, or at least not plummet.

“It was like some kids saying the emperor has no clothes, and then after he says that, he says now that the emperor doesn’t have any underwear either,” Buffett said.

Maintaining his long-term optimism, Buffett said that “five years from now, I can guarantee you that the machine will be running fine,” although he hoped it would not take that long.

“We do have the greatest economic machine that man has ever created,” he said.

Comment by Moman
2009-03-09 07:40:36

One thing about Buffet is that he puts his money where his mouth is…..

Remember his famous saying that “you never know who’s swimming naked until the tide goes out”?

Looks like lots of speculators left their swimsuits at home.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-03-09 08:45:58
Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-09 10:42:18

Good graphic. Nice find.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-09 12:39:02

That poor coyote. He reminds me of an FB. Man, just ONCE I would have liked to see him catch that annoying roadrunner, sit down and all methodically clean and gut it, and then grill it with some rosemary sprigs perhaps.

 
 
Comment by Pondering the Mess
2009-03-09 09:44:04

Do any of the “experts” realize that there will be NO RECOVERY if there is run-away inflation? Or do they dream that incomes are going to some how magically rise to keep up with inflation? Hahahaha - nope!

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-09 10:42:46

Not a few people think wages will indeed rise. IMVHO, that’s a very Am-centric line of thought. Globalization of wages is the PTB’s enduring priority. What incentive is there to rehabilitate the BK American hyper-consumers with pay raises when doing so will work against the globalista agenda?

 
 
Comment by CrackerJim
2009-03-09 11:03:01

“We do have the greatest economic machine that man has ever created,” he said.

Unfortunately, Congress (D&R alike) is extremely busy dismantling that economic machine.

Comment by yogurt
2009-03-09 11:35:44

“Is”?

Comment by CrackerJim
2009-03-09 11:45:42

Congress is a singular noun requiring a singular verb; the parenthetical does not change that.

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Comment by yogurt
2009-03-09 12:27:53

I meant “is” versus “was”, or “has been”.

Like everything was just ducky before January 20th?

 
 
 
 
Comment by sfrenter
2009-03-09 12:01:17

Speaking on CNBC television, the 78-year-old billionaire also said the economy was mere hours away from collapse in September, when credit markets seized up, Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc went bankrupt and insurer American International Group Inc got its first bailout. “The world almost did come to a stop,” he said.

What ***exactly** would have happened in one hour?

Inquiring minds want to know. What would have happened **THAT** day? The next day?

Ever read “The Handmaid’s Tale”? What I loved about that book is she gives a blow by blow account of how the dystopia came to be.

Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-09 13:43:20

I don’t believe the garbage about the world coming undone if it weren’t for the bailout. All of those pansies were just scared to take their medicine. They didn’t want to see their precious stocks flushed down the toilet in a matter of days, instead of the years it will now take instead, at the expense of the real working people. I’ve just about had it with these wealthy elitists.

 
 
 
Comment by NoSingleOne
2009-03-09 05:34:58

March 8, 2009
What Contract?
By Michael M. Grynbaum, NYTimes

COULD the days of the iron-clad contract be numbered?

It used to be that once a buyer went to contract on an apartment, the terms of the deal were all but set in stone. Sales prices never budged, and if the buyer balked, the down payment went bye-bye.

But double-digit price declines and the lending drought have started to threaten this once near-inviolable pillar of New York real estate. Buyers are demanding concessions from developers on apartments that they say have lost up to 30 percent in value. Others are hoping to back out of their contracts entirely, while keeping their down payments in the process.

 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2009-03-09 05:47:11

For those hoping for a summer pick up here in Northern Ohio, the last remaining steel plant in Cleveland gave notice to some 1200 workers that it will shut down entirely in May; and yet, there remain those who are shocked that one janitor job draws over 700 applicants.

Comment by oxide
2009-03-09 06:03:46

Ohio and Michigan will pick up when China runs out of water and regulates pollution, and maybe not even then. Plenty of countries still running in the race to the bottom.

Comment by packman
2009-03-09 06:06:57

“when China runs out of water and regulates pollution”

Just let us know when it’s time to invest in heating strings to keep the pipes from bursting in Hades.

 
 
Comment by Skip
2009-03-09 08:32:26

I first heard that in the early 80’s and they were talking about Michigan picking up when Japan ran out of places to put factories.

Comment by Jon
2009-03-09 09:50:26

I guarantee you Michigan will pick up just as soon as they are willing to work for the same wages as the Chinese.

Comment by kirisdad
2009-03-09 10:29:37

Michigan will pick up when it becomes a non-union (RTW)state or the PTB are successful in inflating the economy. IOW, it’ll take a good while.

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-09 10:46:47

rtw state, oh good just another way to state, eliminate the middle class.

 
Comment by CrackerJim
2009-03-09 11:05:24

Right to Work means Right to Work for Less!

 
Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-09 14:56:53

California is a right to work state.

 
Comment by GrizzlyBear
2009-03-09 15:00:36

It’s humorous how the PTB can’t understand the correlation between shrinking wages and a drop in consumption. Note to retarded corportations: if your workers can’t afford your products, you’re done! It’s goodnight sweetheart for this country unless we see jobs created which pay living wages.

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-09 19:23:26

“Let them eat cake.”

- Famous last words of some people who lost their heads.

 
Comment by ryan in tampa
2009-03-10 01:42:53

I think you miss the point. In order to pay more to the employees, the cost of their end product or service must rise to cover the additional cost.

The real solution is population control. Less people, less material needed, lower cost.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-09 05:55:04

FACTBOX-How far world stocks have actually fallen
… LONDON, March 9 (Reuters) - Here are five facts about stock markets to put the more than one year sell off in perspective:

1) MSCI’s all-country world index .MIWD00000PUS, a benchmark for major institutional investors, was trading just below 173 on Monday, roughly 2 percent above its October 2002 low of 169.48. If it falls below that, it will be at lows last seen 14 years ago in July 1995, before the Asian and Russian crises and when the internet bubble had barely begun.

2) Japan’s Nikkei average .N225 closed on Monday at 7,086.03, the lowest close since October 1982, when Ronald Reagan was U.S. president, the Soviet Union was still in Afghanistan, and “Chariots of Fire” won best picture at the Oscars.

3) The DJ STOXX 600.STOXX, a broad gauge of pan-European stocks, on Monday hit its lowest level since September 1996, when Republican Bob Dole was challenging Bill Clinton for the U.S. presidency, Boris Yeltsin was starting his second term as Russian president, and Britain’s Prince Charles and Diana, Princess of Wales, had just been divorced.

4) Companies traded on the New York Stock Exchange had a market capitalisation of $9.36 trillion at the end of January, according to the World Federation of Exchanges. It is a loss of around $6.3 trillion since the end of 2007. That’s about 40 percent of U.S. Gross Domestic Product and roughly the same as Japan has spent on infrastructure over 17 years.

5) World stocks as measured by MSCI have fallen 24 percent in roughly 2-1/2 months this year. It is already the second largest fall in the 22 years that the all-country world index has existed and more than half of last year’s percentage loss of 43.5 percent. Mathematically, were it to keep losing at its current average rate of 22 points a month, the index would hit zero by year end.

 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-09 06:09:05

I wonder if there’s some kind of effort to keep Citigroup’s price from going below a buck (again). There sure seemed to be some massive buying at 1 last Thurs. and Fri.

Comment by Skip
2009-03-09 08:40:10

Doesn’t really matter, Citi should have been removed from the DOW months ago.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-09 10:47:54

Citi spends $35 million to Smith Barney brokers.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-03-09 06:33:04

VTDan
When I pull a Max chart on the DOW or the S&P 500 I look at a trend line from 1981 through the end of 2004. I draw a line through and about 5 years out to 2014 and it looks like the history of the tech bubble and the housing bubble.95 through 2000 boom, 2000 through 2003 bust right back up to a twin peak in 07 housing boom and way back down breaking through the 81 through 04 trend line at abut 850 on the way down. Following the 81- 04 trend line it would put the S&P 500 back at 1400 in about 5 years. I am dollar cost averaging in a fund that has a manager who has out preformed the S&P 500 and the DOW substantially in up markets. I don`t claim to know where any bottom is, but for me the worse it is the next 2-3 years the better. If I am wrong I am wrong, I am not investing borrowed money. If I am right I will have a heck of a payday in the next 3,4 or 5 years.

Comment by packman
2009-03-09 07:06:46

Forgive me for butting in, but IMO your trend line itself is based on a bubble - a bubble that we’ve been in since about 1983. Or perhaps more correctly a series of bubbles. Unless another equity bubble comes along (it may well) then we’ll may well end up at about 300-400 on the S&P for a long time to come, in my opinion. I’m talking equity bubble not debt bubble like we going right now with treasuries.

Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-09 07:28:16

That is indeed the question: Which trend line more accuratly predicts the FUTURE: 1950-1980 or 1980-2008? What was 1980 exactly. Are the changes then supportable? I’m not sure that they are.

 
Comment by rms
2009-03-09 07:56:14

“Forgive me for butting in, but IMO your trend line itself is based on a bubble - a bubble that we’ve been in since about 1983.”

The inflation bubble really started in the seventies, IMHO; we dropped the Gold Standard, and the Great Society programs and Vietnam’s bills came due.

Comment by packman
2009-03-09 08:14:56

I wasn’t talking about the inflation bubble though even - I was talking about the stock market bubble relative to inflation even. See my post above with a link to an interesting chart.

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Comment by yogurt
2009-03-09 09:59:34

There is no such thing as a “bubble relative to inflation”. Bubbles exist when price/earnings for an asset is too high. The quotient of two nominals is a real. Inflation has nothing to do with it.

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-09 10:21:28

See my comment above - you’re assuming that P/E determines whether or not we are in a bubble, which IMO is a flawed presumption. It assumes that earnings themselves aren’t in a bubble - which in my strong opinion they still are, relative to history. Or perhaps more appropriately - relative to population and the amount of goods and service that can be created by the U.S. However you can’t just use GDP data, because that’s based on prices which are inflated.

So in order to determine whether earnings are in a bubble - you have to look at earnings relative to history. But that’s not valid if you don’t take inflation into account.

I don’t have an earnings / history chart, mainly since I’m not aware of a good source of data for that. I’ve seen S&P earnings data that goes back to 1988, but that’s not far enough since in my view we were already far into the bubble by then.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-09 10:35:46

yogurt: Worse than that. At the end of the day, earnings don’t do investors any good, dividends are the only money that investors can put in the bank. The idea that earnings that are not returned to investors in the form of divedends are important is predicated on the idea that they will be invested in productivity improvements that will lead to future improvements in dividends. But once a company goes bankruput and the stock price goes to zero, all the earnings that it had over it’s years of operation are meaningless. Earnings only matter if the company doesn’t go bankrupt. And in these times people are realizing that there really aren’t any companies that can’t go bankrupt.

 
Comment by yogurt
2009-03-09 12:31:15

I agree with you up to a point, but remember also that companies perform share buybacks, go private, and are bought out, which also return earnings to shareholders.

 
Comment by Jim A.
2009-03-09 12:56:34

I suppose my point is that earnings (or buybacks) don’t neccessarily mean that the stock is worth any more when it is sold. Under normal circumstances they will, but if a company goes bankrupt the shareholders are usually wiped out. And going private, or being bought out are simply being forced to sell.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-09 08:39:46

Yeah…speaking of Vietnam Bills..by the way Uncle Sam, your friggly US Gov’t STILL owes me 10 days Rest and Recreation(R&R) in Bangkok and I STILL WANT IT!

…and it WASN’T my fault that one of YOUR idiot 105 mm Howitzer rounds found my cute little A$$ while I was hiding in the frigging grass…EXACTLY where YOU sent me:)

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Comment by jeff saturday
2009-03-09 08:47:22

Didn`t Forest Gump say that was a million dollar wound, but the army must keep that money because he never saw any of it. mikey, thank you for your service.

 
Comment by tresho
2009-03-09 08:48:07

it WASN’T my fault that one of YOUR idiot 105 mm Howitzer rounds To which the artillerymen reply, “If they can’t take a joke, –”

 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-09 09:20:12

Yeah…my brother was a cannon conker at FT Bragg at the time but I always SWEAR it was somehow him and or at least some of his friends BEHIND that one :)

 
Comment by CrackerJim
2009-03-09 11:09:28

“..one of YOUR idiot 105 mm Howitzer rounds found my cute little A$$..”

Sounds like the precursor to the Smart Bomb.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-09 12:46:27

‘mikey, thank you for your service.’

Ditto. And I hope yer ass is still cute. A cute ass is often a valuable, well, I hate to say it, but a valuable asset in life. :)

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by Peterpaul
2009-03-09 07:02:00

Jeff Saturday,

Are you any relation to Taco Bell Jeff? You have the right idea regarding looking at long term trend lines, but your view of the market is too short. Try looking at the trend lines over a 50 year period. We can, and are very likely to, go below long term trend lines.

Comment by Moman
2009-03-09 07:45:38

A classic sign of a market bottom, when people believe it will never get better and we’re destined for long term problems.

This kind of reporting hit a crescendo in March 2003, and by August 2003 we were in the largest % of GDP growth in 19 years.

I don’t expect that will be repeated this year, but could easily happen by 1Q 2010, as the comps are much weaker for comparison.

I do believe we’ll be looking at positive GDP by June 2009.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-09 19:27:36

Ah yes, the jobless recovery. I remember it well.

All TOO well.

 
 
Comment by jeff saturday
2009-03-09 08:10:08

Don`t know Taco Bell Jeff, but I like the name. You all may very well be correct. I don`t claim to be as smart as any of you, I have looked at 1950-1980, I have also looked at pockets Sep60-Dec71 53-71, Oct. 62-Jan. 66 56-92, Sep.66-Nov.68 76-108 and so on.
These are big % moves in what looks to me like a fairly flat long term trend line. I am not giving advice and I appreciate peoples opinions on this blog, like I said I may be wrong but on the 15th of every month I am putting a set amount in, not betting the farm, just the dog house. Anyway I gotta get back to work, but I think I`ll stop at Taco Bell for lunch.

Comment by jeff saturday
2009-03-09 08:27:37

Sep60-Dec71 53-71 oops Sep60-Dec61 51-71

 
 
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-09 07:12:03

Most amazingly, well past a year since the onset of a steady stream of “worse than expected” results, almost all updates on global financial matters are turning out “worse than expected.” And by the way, how’s that decoupling theory holding up these days?

BBC News
Page last updated at 08:35 GMT, Monday, 9 March 2009
World economy to ’shrink’ in 2009
Emerging economies will grow more slowly in 2009

The global economy will shrink for the first time this year since World War II, the World Bank has said.

The bank’s forecast is gloomier than other estimates, which still foresee some growth.

By the middle of 2009, industrial output could be as much as 15% lower than 2008, while trade may record the biggest decline in 80 years, it said.

Developing countries face a financing shortfall of up to $700bn (£497bn) this year, the bank added.

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-09 19:29:55

Train cars tend to decouple when they jump the track. :wink:

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-09 08:05:34

Bail out working, AIG soon won’t be too big to fail
By Scott Ott
Examiner Columnist | 3/3/09 9:32 AM

News fairly unbalanced. We report. You decipher

The Treasury Department announced today that the bail out of AIG Insurance, which began in September under the Bush administration, is working better than expected.

Encouraged by the company’s loss of nearly $62 billion in the 4th quarter of 2008, the Obama administration injected another $30 billion into AIG this week.

“The government stepped in last year with $150 billion because AIG was too big to fail,” said Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner. “The stock was trading in early September at more than $20 per share.

Today it’s worth less than 50 cents a share. If we keep pumping billions of tax dollars into it, I’d say we’ll soon reach the point where AIG won’t be too big to fail, and then we can stop giving them money.”

Mr. Geithner explained that President Obama is using a similar principle in the housing bail out.

“By forcing banks to cut payments for irresponsible homeowners rather than foreclose, the value of all mortgages will continue to decrease until many banks will cease being too big to fail,” Mr. Geithner said.

“In addition, millions of other homeowners will realize that a mortgage contract is binding only on the federal government, allowing them to reduce their monthly payments as well. Finally, we’ll have affordable housing for everyone,” he said.

This latest infusion of taxpayer cash will increase the federal government’s stake from 80 percent of AIG, to roughly 127 percent, Mr. Geithner said.

“This is a good investment for the American people,” he said, “because AIG is the company that insures thousands of other companies against the risk of a global financial meltdown. What would we do without AIG?”

Comment by DennisN
2009-03-09 10:03:18

Scrappleface can be hit or miss, but he’s doing some good work this week. Check out this Hillary story with the Wizard of Oz riff.

http://www.scrappleface.com/?p=3333

 
Comment by rfw
2009-03-09 13:13:50

This is from The Onion, right?

 
 
Comment by Carl Morris
2009-03-09 08:17:35

Went and looked at a house this weekend out of curiousity…I couldn’t believe how cheap it was and wanted to see for myself what was up.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/10589-Durango-Pl_Longmont_CO_80504_1102982613

I ended up kind of shocked. I’m not sure when those pictures were taken, because the place is pretty trashed now. My apologies to anyone who lives there, but I think the neighborhood is doomed. The houses were only 5-6 years old, but the whole neighborhood looked like bulldozer bait within the next few years. I knew that there was stuff like this in the really bubbly areas, but I didn’t think that I’d feel that way about anything in Colorado. I came away with the impression that no matter how cheap anything was, it would still be a waste of money in the end.

While I was checking it out, a grandmotherly type from an adjacent backyard came out to talk. She was really talking up the neighborhood and how much they liked it. I asked her if they were the original owners. She said “Oh no, we’re just renting”. That’s when I was sure it was doomed…

Comment by exeter
2009-03-09 08:43:29

Offer them two Washington quarters for it. It’s better than the two dimes they’re rubbing together right now.

 
Comment by bob
2009-03-09 08:51:40

What do you mean by trashed? Just messy and unkept, or literally trashed and damaged. What can you say about the rest of the neighbourhood.

Comment by Carl Morris
2009-03-09 09:16:52

For the price, I was expecting serious vandalism. I couldn’t see any of that through first floor windows, but there was carpet pulled up, trash and junk everywhere, and a sign on the door warning of various types of hazards and telling people to enter at their own risk.

The house definitely appeared to be fixable. I’m thinking for 20 grand it could be as nice as it ever was. The problem is how cheaply everything in the neighborhood is built, and how quickly it’s all becoming a ghetto. That’s what made me think that fixing the house would be throwing money away in the end. Also the back yard was beyond tiny, I think you could maybe reach the back fence from inside the house if you really stretched. Just enough room back there for the A/C unit and a doghouse.

Also, LOTs of for sale and for rent signs, mostly looking to get 130-160k for the for sales.

Comment by Larry Parker
2009-03-09 10:42:12

Thanks a lot, Carl, for taking the time to write your comment and post the link. That is the type of man-on-the-street real world report that is very interesting to read.

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-09 11:45:05

From: Realtor

Listing Information
Refreshed at 11:38 AM (less than 5 minutes ago)
Added on Sep 8, 2008 (182 days ago)

___

From the above, apparently many think as you Carl.

1371 sq feet on a zero lot line for a wooden townhouse is not a bargain for $80K even in FL.

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Comment by Mikey(2)
2009-03-09 08:24:57

People are jumping back into real estate in my neck of the woods. I’ve been watching a bunch of properties for sale in my area that based on the high prices being asked I expected to see listed through the summer. To my suprise, many of these properties have sold within the last month, even bidding wars on some. Even properties that have been sitting have sold. Spoke with my mortgage company rep (who, incidentally, is still offering to lend me more money than I could ever imagine borrowing), and he was elated at how busy he is.

Last week I actually made a verbal agreement to buy a place that had been on the market for over a year, but I backed out before signing, expecting the price to drop even further. It sold this week. And once again I am feeling like I’ve missed the boat, waiting for the price drop that just ain’t gonna happen.

It’s all anecdotal evidence, mind you, but I won’t be surprised to see a huge reported bounce in sales this month. My brain tells me it’s a dead cat bounce, but I’m genuinely sick to my stomach over it.

I fear that my emotion will soon win over and I will be the next knife catcher.

Comment by Moman
2009-03-09 09:13:08

There have been some sales here in my complex as well. Over 20% of the units are in foreclosure right now. I am not sure why people are lining up to be knife catchers.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-09 09:55:38

I’ll know that it’s time to buy when the real estate equivalent of Henny Youngman says to me, “Take my house — please!” Not as much of a hyperbole there as one might think.

 
Comment by scdave
2009-03-09 10:42:36

Mikey(2)…Zip code ??

Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-09 11:00:56

zip code please!

Comment by Mikey(2)
2009-03-09 12:00:00

19086, Rose Valley, PA.

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Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-09 11:49:34

It is spring and it is the busy selling time. Families are looking so they can get moved in and start a new year in a new school if necessary. And let’s face, prices in many, many areas are down from three years ago and for a lot a people the psychology of that is difficult to ignore. “Hey we’re getting it ON SALE!”

We already know that the average American doesn’t understand the importance of an income that can support the prices. They just know it cost less than it did and now they can “afford” it. Lenders are still doing incredibly stupid loans (which to me is anything over three times income) and creating a new generation of knife catchers. Since the MSM seems to be supporting the idea that there are going to be job losses for at least another year people should be looking to buy far less than they can afford. But they aren’t - not yet. And thus we are still in a bubble and those of us that understand this mess know we have a ways to go.

Be patient. Remember we have had less than two years of real price declines (at least in San Diego) after almost a decade of price increases. Real estate prices are sticky and, unlike the stock market, the bubbles tend to deflate slowly rather than pop. I’ve resigned myself to not even looking until 2010 and not buying until 2011. I suspect the attitude at that time will be “are you crazy? Who buys real estate?” (Or at least I hope so.) Patience is a virtue because it is tough, not because it is easy. Regardless, you probably don’t want to buy in the spring even after the prices come down enough. Buying in the off-season will almost always get a better deal. Good luck and be glad you are smart enough to be getting an education here – something that most of the people buying right now are going to regret not getting especially if the economy gets bad enough.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-09 08:56:20

I expect a few dead cat bounces…and a helleva lot of twitching before this housing feline finally rolls over and croaks :)

Some …Dreams just die HARD :)

 
Comment by laughing boy
2009-03-09 08:58:44

Took a stroll around downtown SF near Columbus and Broadway towards the Financial District and was more than shocked at the amount of commercial real estate available. Swear to God almost every single building had a “for lease” or “space available” sign on it. Building after building. I knew the commercial real estate was in bad shape, but to see it was pretty shocking.

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-09 10:12:21

Hey laughing boy–

I’m in Hayes Valley in SF and the chi-chi luggage and bra stores are starting to shutter. Lots of 50% sales, but I don’t know if they are really sales because I don’t shop at stores (except minimal food/maximal booze) and wouldn’t know if they had just jacked up the price to mark it down.

Haven’t been over to Columbus in a while, but since I’m loooong SRS, I am glad to hear your anecdotal news. [And yes hd74man, I've made a bit of walking around money on SRS, DUG and SKF. With my "ill-gotten gains", I'm going to purchase a new Dobro, the Jerry Douglas expression system, a .270 BDL with scope and ammo as soon as I'm out of the weeds at work]

To dovetail into the conversation above, I also believe that, “The economy we have known for the duration of our lives is crumbling, not merely shrinking.” as cobaltblue wrote. [NEVER thought that I would write those particular words]. I’m hoping for a revolutionary change in the way we operate instead of these evolutionary steps that have taken us to the precipice and beyond. I’m reading Natural Capitalism, so you’ll know where I’m coming from.

“When the winds of change are blowing, some people are building shelters, and some people are building windmills.” I hope that we are building both, ’cause not much else is going to matter.

MrBubble

For the TEOTWAWKI crowd, check out “The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil”. See your future, be your future, ma-make it…

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-09 10:51:52

I’m in Hayes Valley in SF and the chi-chi luggage and bra stores are starting to shutter.

Given the rents and commercial real estate prices in SF, I’m surprised so many little boutiques lasted so long. Extraordinarily high monthly overhead unless one is moving a whole lot of product, bought the building pre-bubble, or negotiated a below market rent.

Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-09 13:18:20

I’m so used to going into stores, picking stuff up and thinking, “Who the &*^* needs this?” Apparently, others are realizing that they don’t need that second Billy Bass.

At least a good dive bar might move in to the neighborhood…

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-09 13:48:46

‘Apparently, others are realizing that they don’t need that second Billy Bass.’

Hahahahaahaha! That’s funny!

At least a good dive bar might move in to the neighborhood…

*Stops chortling and nods solemnly. *
You absolutely need one of those. A good dive bar is ESSENTIAL. We have bunches here in Olympia.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-09 15:12:18

We have bunches here in Olympia.

You can just make your pick based on what you want–cheap beer is a given in all, but, for instance, are you in the mood for ‘Screaming Pig Ale’? French-fries or tater-tots? Do you insist upon a cute bartender? Wanna witness fisticuffs? How about transvestites? Well, then, how about fisticuffing transvestites? See, we got everything.

I love Olympia, I really really do.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-09 15:34:31

This is what I have nearby:

Paxti’s — really just a pizza place, but they have $1 PBR and a TV for games

Marlena’s — got two steps in and realized that it is a drag bar. Cool, but not my scene

Place Pigalle — too French a name to be a dive bar AND they have only beer and wine. I order an old-fashioned anyway — every time. I like to believe that the bartendresses find me “quirky” rather than “annoying”.

MrBubble

PS: Any SF BBers feel free to learn me some of your faves.

 
Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-09 17:11:33

You said ‘bartendress’.

Hey! Dammit! lookit this! Its snowing again! Not flakes, the little chubby white ball thingies. Not hail, just stupid snow.
I’m going to complain.

*starts to write a note to the manager *

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by 20910
2009-03-09 09:18:54

The Next Hit: Quick Defaults
More FHA-Backed Mortgages Go Bad Without a Single Payment

http://tinyurl.com/dzmyyr

More than 9,200 of the loans insured by the FHA in the past two years have gone into default after no or only one payment, according to the Post analysis. The pace of these instant defaults has tripled in one year. By last fall, more than two dozen FHA home loans on average were defaulting this way every day, seven days a week.

If a loan “is going into default immediately, it clearly suggests impropriety and fraudulent activity,” said Kenneth Donohue, the inspector general of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, which includes the FHA.

I dunno, ya think? Let’s not jump to conclusions . . .

 
Comment by 20910
2009-03-09 09:23:08

From NPR this morning:

Where Were The Media As Wall Street Imploded?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=101475670

“I get this from friends, family, you know, ‘How come you guys didn’t see this coming?’ ” said Peter Coy, economics editor for BusinessWeek magazine. “How come all the journalists missed this big story?”

His answer: They didn’t.

“Maybe you don’t remember what we wrote,” Coy said. “Maybe you didn’t read what we wrote. But we were out there covering this stuff.”

Whaaaaaaaaa? Um, OK. You say so.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-09 10:47:57

Sure we read it, and a whole lot of it was (and still is) real estate puff pieces and “buy for the long haul” stock advice. Big contribution there financial press!

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-03-09 19:21:36

“The Economist” magazine ran a cover story in 2004 entitled “House of Cards”, and it dealt with the global housing boom.

A quote: “A bursting housing bubble wouldn’t just sap the value of your home, The Economist warned. “Worse,” it said, “there is a risk that house prices will take such a tumble that they take whole economies with them.”

Lots of people saw that there was a bubble. There is a strong relationship between the press and advertisers, and thus, the press is loathe to say bad things about advertisers or their business. Just look at the relationship between car magazines and car companies.

People on this blog who were talking about the bubble and potential collapse were viewed as wingnuts. But here we are.

 
 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-09 09:34:32

Citi spends $3.5 million on Smith Barney brokers.
-Okeydokey. Not to gov. take back all the money. Now.

NEW YORK – Embattled banking giant Citigroup Inc. spent about $3.5 million to provide rewards for top-performing advisers at its Smith Barney brokerage unit.

The payments are in lieu of three trips Citi usually plans for its top revenue-generating advisers in the division. Those trips were canceled earlier in the year as Citi attempts to slash costs amid the ongoing economic downturn. Citi has posted five consecutive quarterly losses and received $45 billion in government assistance during the ongoing credit crisis and recession.

Many major financial firms that have received government funding in recent months have drastically scaled back spending on events and perks for employees amid growing anger from politicians in Washington about how they spend money.

Citi said none of the money from the government investment is being used for the rewards.

“This program is funded by operating revenue of Smith Barney and achieves a nearly 80 percent cost saving over some previous recognition programs,” Citi spokesman Alex

Comment by measton
2009-03-09 19:18:40

Bonuses and dividends, that’s what our bale out money is going for. The arrogance of these criminals is amazing.

 
 
Comment by Housing Wizard
2009-03-09 10:22:01

Hello everybody , My computer crash and I just bought a new one .
I have ben out of touch with what has been happening because of being at the Hospital all thye time . Im just testing to see if this new computer works ,

Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-09 11:05:21

Hope you are well/recovered. You and the new pc.

Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-09 12:53:53

Ditto. But mostly you, housing wiz.

 
 
 
Comment by james
2009-03-09 10:27:22

Lies and more dang lies on top of them…. from Yahoo/BW

From Business week… markets showing signs of life. Near my brothers place up in Fairfield and Vacaville a few minutes away.

In ZIP codes across the country, as once-inflated property prices bottom out housing sales are increasing dramatically

Earlier this year Herson and Liz Enerio put in a $400,000 bid on a four-bedroom house on a private street in Fairfield, Calif., with three pine trees and a backyard that opens onto a hiking trail.

I can’t believe this crock of bull. First, these people are over paying for living in Fairfield, which has substantial crime due to the military base and the boys getting in trouble. Second, I’m watching that area occasionally with my brother for potential deals. There are plenty of them. Lots of forclosed homes all over the place. You have to go through hundreds of homes before you hit that 400K barrier. The incomes support prices in the 150-250K range in the area. There are hundreds of REO there and many have sat on the market for months.

You can easily get a house far cheaper than these two idiots are paying. There was a 6bd/4bth 3400sq ft golf course home for 360K or 10% less. Private neighboorhood as well.

I don’t know too many people that need/want a house that big either. Its a great white elephant. Its also very hot in the summer so cooling costs are bad.

Well. I suppose these idiots will lose the house in a couple of years too. Great. Another bad loan.

 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-09 10:58:38

Not to start a s—storm about gold, but has anyone seen this article?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/188138

It’s got someone calling gold, the “precious”. Sound familiar??

Comment by rosie
2009-03-09 11:25:42

Great article. Talk it up msm. It’s all good.

Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-09 11:43:46

No kidding, Time/Newsweek = Best. Contrarian. Indicators. Ever!

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-09 12:12:56

Check out this contrarian indicator, for example:

Through The Roof!
Stocks Get All The Credit For Making Americans Rich. But For Most Families, The Exploding Values Of Their Homes Are The Real Wealthmakers. Will The Boom Last?
By John McCormick and Daniel McGinn | NEWSWEEK
From the magazine issue dated Aug 9, 1999

When Matt Morgan toured the French Provincial home in Seattle’s quaint Bryant neighborhood last March, he anxiously noted the pile of brokers’ business cards on the dining-room table. In Seattle, where too much money is chasing too few for sale signs, homes are being auctioned off like Picassos, and lots of cards signal lots of potential rival bidders. So Morgan, a 37-year-old Web-page designer, offered to pay $315,000–a full $35,000 over the asking price. No dice: another buyer outbid him. He quickly moved on to a charming Cape Cod. It was priced at $269,000, but Morgan bid $307,000. Again, someone else topped him. Disappointed? Sure, but also undaunted. In these times, he who hesitates remains apartment-bound. “It’s harsh,” Morgan says. “You have to act fast, roll up your sleeves and fight.”

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-09 13:01:46

Hmmmm. I wonder where this Morgan guy is now? Maybe I tossed a buck into his grimy cup the other day.

 
Comment by neuromance
2009-03-09 19:24:42

I have an article from the Baltimore Sun newspaper from the early 2000’s which said, essentially, “Interest rates are 7%, they cannot stay this low, buy a house now” :)

 
 
Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-09 13:29:26

I remember the Time “Home $weet Home” issue in June of 2005 with the guy squeezing his house and money coming out of the chimney. I sold my condo that month.

BTW — I wasn’t saying that gold is a buy at these (or at any) levels. Just thought that we may have found where Alad went!

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Comment by Olympiagal
2009-03-09 17:23:30

Sure, we knew who you meant. This ‘Geoff Farnham’ guy was the one who mentioned ‘the Precious’, and Gollum, in the article…

But in my imagination, I see Alad crouched inside a giant sequoia burl that he has laboriously hollowed out with a spoon, and he’s wearing a beet taped to his head, and he’s quoting poetry, and Ayn Rand, and HAL the evil super-computer, as he fondles pine-cones and gold ingots. And a little fire. There’s a marmot hanging out, too.*

And I’m sticking to that image.
**makes dramatic and complicated gesture indicating my stickiness-to-the-image in the face of all other potential fates for Aladinsane **

* Hey, what’s a marmot, anyway? Anyone know? You’d think I’d know, I mention them lots, and I know quite a bit about many mammals and things. But marmots are a mystery to me. Like numbers are a mystery to me.

 
 
 
 
Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-09 11:45:37

The price of gold is near an alltime high—it topped $1,000 an ounce on March 13—yet the number of Americans who are taking delivery of gold coins and bars is rising.

Notice this sentence? A little premature, perhaps, since it’s only the 9th. Or perhaps the author is planning on a little market manipulation.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-03-09 12:44:14

I’m pretty sure he means the “all time high” happened about a year ago..

Here’s a CNN headline
“Gold prices hit $1000 milestone on dollar weakness - Mar. 13, 2008″

IIRC, the price then dropped to about $850/oz within a month or so.

Comment by ET-Chicago
2009-03-09 12:50:24

Ah, you’re prob’ly right. But it looks like predictification — the author doesn’t note the year, and the street date of the magazine is March 16, 2009.

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Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-09 12:03:36

“Sales at Cannon Safe were up 43 percent in 2008, and CEO Aaron Baker estimates that 30 percent of new safe buyers are holding precious metals. The company is developing a new ad campaign—”The bank that never closes. You’re Cannon safe”—and hopes it will appear on billboards near Wall Street soon.”

If I were of the criminal persuasion I would get a job at such a company and keep a very detailed list of what clients bought safes and what they said while they were shopping. Two or three years from now there’d be a mysterious rash of home invasion robberies where the stash of gold would disappear.

Fortunately I have no desire to steal or set up such a ring, but if I could come up with this idea who couldn’t? If you’re going to buy a safe be careful about the info you give out and/or where you have it delivered to. I think this is just advertising that you have assets which is never a good idea. :(

Comment by VirginiaTechDan
2009-03-09 12:38:19

Sometimes the best security is obscurity… combined with a false safe. Buy some “false plumbing” and “install it” somewhere in your house. Then buy a safe and put it some place “easy to find” and put a sacrificial amount of silver/gold in the safe. If you are robbed the robber will think he got everything unless he knows more specifics about your assets.

Comment by MommyK
2009-03-09 15:25:16

I use this trick all the time when I leave stuff in my car to go for a run for instance. Leave my purse under a coat and everything valuable that was in it somewhere much better.

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Comment by MrBubble
2009-03-09 16:32:21

Hey MommyK,

What are you doing driving to go for a run? Why not just run there and back? My Dad used to drive to the HS track to jog and I never asked why. Maybe it’s night and you don’t want to get runned over. Answered my own question, perhaps.

I’ve become a bit of a self-righteous, energy-sipping, not wanting to support terrorism, tree-hugging prig since I sold my car! :smile: Almost beer thirty! That’ll help me relax…

MrBubble

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-03-09 11:39:21

10News I-Team Investigations
I-Team Puts Gold Buyers To The Test

Ads on TV promise big bucks giving you “cash for gold.”
The 10News I-Team put these ads to the test, buying four of the same 10-karat gold men’s wedding rings for $58 apiece.
[various snippage]
McCarthy has 20 years in the jewelry business and says the 10News I-Team rings should get a buyback price of about $17 each, given the price of gold $8.39 per gram on the day McCarthy weighed the gold.

The 10News I-Team sent the rings to three Internet companies that promise cash for gold — http://www.GoldKit.com, http://www.Cash4Gold.com and http://www.GetGoldCash.com. The fourth ring was resold to a San Diego-area pawn shop.

The retail price for the rings was $58. GoldKit.com sent the 10News I-Team a check for $2.80. Cash4Gold.com sent two checks — one for $2.92 and another for $4.99, explaining they mistakenly charged the 10News I-Team $4.99 for a “Fast Cash” option not received. GetGoldCash.com paid $7.63 for the ring.

The local buyback had the best payout. The pawn shop paid out $18.50 for the ring on a day when gold was valued at over $9 a gram.

wwwdot
10news.com/investigations/17913343/detail.html

..definately inflationary..

Comment by Blue Skye
2009-03-09 14:15:07

I can’t see it as inflationary or deflationary.

Less than a third of the melt “value” is what you get when you sell for scrap.

The pawn broker must believe he can sell it as a ring, not to the smelter. Probably helps that it was not engraved.

 
Comment by packman
2009-03-09 14:37:36

“McCarthy has 20 years in the jewelry business and says the 10News I-Team rings should get a buyback price of about $17 each, given the price of gold $8.39 per gram on the day McCarthy weighed the gold.”

I’ll bet you anything that what McCarthy meant was that each ring had $17 worth of gold in it, which is vastly different than having a fair buy-back price of $17. Obviously these are very small rings, and at only 10 carats, the handling and smelting costs would be a very larger portion of the gold cost.

A realistic comparison would have been 14 or 20-carat rings rings that cost about $300-400 or so (about an average wedding ring).

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-03-09 16:01:18

well.. anyone who sends these guys their jewelry is a dope, imo. Sending higher carat stuff is hella-dopey.

 
 
 
Comment by Manny
Comment by San Diego RE Bear
2009-03-09 12:26:14

“once-inflated property prices bottom out housing sales are increasing dramatically”

Can’t debunk that sales are up, way up in a lot of areas. Very true in San Diego. The debatable point is the idea that this is the bottom. Because we all know the MSM is so great at calling bottoms. :D

 
Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-03-09 12:37:30

Fairfield, Calif.
Median price paid during month of Jan 2008- $345,500
Median price paid Jan 2009- $182,000
Down -47.32% yoy.
DQnews

…..extrapolate forward to Jan 2010 and.. maybe median is around $90,000? Has anything happened that might change the current trend?
——-
Prices have dropped so low that cash-ready investors and first-time buyers are making multiple offers on distressed properties…

No debunking necessary, imo. HBB predicted lots and lots of impatient, cash-ready knife-catchers would jump in prematurely a couple years ago.

Comment by Manny
2009-03-09 13:21:58

The thing that sticks out most to me is the % of non-distressed sales for many of these cities is under 50%. And I remember reading a few times from pundits - such as HBBers - that the bottom will come when the banks starts liquidating foreclosed homes en masse. Looks like that’s happening based on these numbers.

Comment by joeyinCalif
2009-03-09 14:30:41

i’d say the bottom will more likely arrive around the time when banks start finish liquidating their foreclosed homes…

(Comments wont nest below this level)
 
 
 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-09 19:46:59

In parts of Texas, +/-$100k homes are selling just fine.

It seems like 100k is the magic number for the rest of the country as well.

 
 
Comment by jbunniii
2009-03-09 13:10:18

Noteworthy top headline on Yahoo this afternoon: “Why Renting Beats Buying”

http://tinyurl.com/cz8mz4

Comment by Manny
2009-03-09 13:26:21

MSM says better to rent than buy. Is this like the infamous Time cover in reverse?

Comment by AbsoluteBeginner
2009-03-09 15:23:38

The media is trying to use the reverse-Constanza play on us. Don’t fall for it.

 
 
 
Comment by whino
2009-03-09 13:35:42

Roubini: US Recession Could Last Up to 36 Months

http://biz.yahoo.com/cnbc/090309/29598949.html

 
Comment by crazy frog
2009-03-09 14:40:07

Among Roubini solutions: fix the housing market by breaking “EVERY MORTGAGE CONTRACT”

WTF?

Comment by Faster Pussycat, Sell Sell
2009-03-09 15:23:08

That’ll totally “fix” it as in “fix the dog.”

You’ll never get lending going again. Plus, you’d get all kinds of pushback from contract law violations.

 
 
Comment by wmbz
2009-03-09 14:55:02

Coming to my home town…

Need help making mortgage payments? Help is coming to Columbia
By Yvonne Wenger (Contact)
The Post and Courier
Monday, March 9, 2009

COLUMBIA — The Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America pledges this weekend to help thousands of South Carolinians who are stuck with mortgage payments they can’t afford.

Bruce Marks, chief executive officer of the nonprofit organization, acknowledges that the work his advocacy group does sounds too good to be true, but he said the results speak volumes.

The group’s counselors use binding agreements with all the country’s major lenders to help homeowners restructure their mortgage interest rates to as low as 2 and 3 percent for the life of the loan.

Marks said the counselors will evaluate living expenses, income and mortgages payments to determine whether a homeowner’s mortgage is unaffordable. The homeowner does not need to be late on payments or in foreclosure to qualify for the free service, and income level is not a factor.

U.S. House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn was credited with drawing the highly sought-after Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America to South Carolina, where 58,000 homes are in jeopardy of foreclosure.

Comment by Manny
2009-03-09 15:54:27

I got a flyer from this outfit on Friday in the mailbox inviting me to the event in SC. I live in Atlanta, go figure. Anyway they had examples of success that indeed sounds too good to be true….like for example Mr. Joe Shmoe went from an 11.5% interest rate to a 4.25% interest rate and saved $900 a month.

Now if you have an 11.5% interest rate, it means your FICO is about a negative 500. I highly doubt that someone with that kind of credit score is getting refi-ed into a 4.25% loan. Only way i see this happening is if the 4.25% is itself an ARM that will reset back to 11.5% in no time.

 
 
Comment by AK-LA
2009-03-09 15:08:20

The Last Shopping Mall? New Jersey Awaits Xanadu
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188354600

The Meadowlands location isn’t scenic - it’s surrounded by weedy wetlands, decrepit factories, shipping containers and railroads - and Xanadu’s developers spent $2 billion on what seems like the most hideous spot on the lot. “It’s basically a lot of junk,” says former New Jersey Governor Brendan Byrne, for whom the basketball area at the Meadowlands was once named (it’s now the Izod Center). “I drive by with friends and we’re embarrassed.”

“Xanadu is the epic discretionary story,” says Davidowitz. “It’s the epicenter of ‘not needed.’ How can you have this when the consumer is completely decimated? It’s already one of the world’s biggest nightmares.”

What a horrendous misallocation of wealth, resources, and effort. What can I say, but “USA! USA! USA!

Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-09 19:50:23

Gotta launder, er, invest that money somewhere.

 
 
Comment by VaBeyatch in Virginia Beach
2009-03-09 16:35:07

“Housing is a bust, but apartments are booming”
(Norfolk / Virginia Beach / Hampton Roads)

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/03/housing-bust-apartments-are-booming

 
Comment by Alta
2009-03-09 17:39:54

Santa Cruz condo project in trouble: Project not selling, and contractors sue developer to get paid
http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/ci_11858517?source=most_viewed

 
Comment by vozworth
2009-03-09 18:11:01

running out of options?

GE just passed another FDIC bond package, off the shelf.

see, when the underlying CDS are trading at what looks to be16.5%, and you get FREE MONEY…..well, lets just say that works long term, right up till it dont work.

the spread blowout, is a function of “I get free money, and you pay.”

its just that simple. Why is it that simple?

I dont get 16.5% on GE common, unless, of course, I do.

folks, its real and there is no bottom.

Comment by Blano
2009-03-09 18:22:22

I don’t understand what you’re saying. Is it too late at night to get this in English, voz??

Comment by vozworth
2009-03-09 19:39:48

whats the Dividend Yield on GE common?

with guaranteed money.

what is money?

 
Comment by ecofeco
2009-03-09 19:51:43

Ya, me 3.

 
 
 
Comment by vozworth
2009-03-09 18:13:24

Whats the HOLD TO MATURITY on a GE CDS?

that would be ZERO,

we all die in the long run.

Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-09 18:36:27

YTC no longer applies as everyone would rather put the junk, not call it; YTM no longer applies as nationalisation or BK will obviously occur first; so basically we are down to YTD (Yield to Default) which you would suspect to be a number in the high fifties or so, but this is of course Too Big To Fail Land - TBTFL- so a measly high teens is all ya get.

The paradox being that if you are a giant corpse, you don’t stink as much as little corpses do.

Comment by vozworth
2009-03-09 19:42:08

I either have money now, or I have no money at the end.

 
 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-09 18:17:50

Has anybody else seen “The Prime Gig”?

IMHO the current economy will have thousands of former Realtards (TM) and recently released jail and prison inmates “working” together in “rooms” to pay the rent.

You’ve heard of dog eat dog; maybe we’re headed for con conning con.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-09 19:39:30

5 Reasons Renting Still Beats Buying

By Jack Hough

Mar 6th, 2009

This weekend I’ll throw $1,100 down the drain. That is to say, I’ll pay my rent. Pop-finance pundits have long used the drain cliché to describe how renters like me waste money, while homeowners with mortgages “pay themselves” and “build equity.”

In April 2007 I argued something different: Renting Makes More Financial Sense Than Homeownership. Basically, houses produce poor returns over long time periods while stocks and other investments produce good ones, and the outlook for houses is especially poor now, so I’d rather rent cheaply and funnel my extra cash into something other than a house.

Even though house prices have plunged and I have enough money to buy one, I’m still not nearly tempted. In what follows I’ll give five reasons. (The first two form the core of my original argument.) Before all this starts to sound too self-congratulatory, I’ll also explain the one big thing my essay got wrong.
Reason 1: Houses produce lousy returns, while stocks produce good ones

Houses looked like smart investments in 2007. They had returned 9.3% a year for a decade, while stocks had returned just 5.9%. This year, with investors fleeing both houses and stocks, both probably look like a waste of money. But be careful about succumbing to what psychologists call recency bias — the tendency to form beliefs based largely on the most recent observations in a long series of data. For U.S. investors, reliable data on stocks and houses goes back well further than 10, 20 or even 50 years.

Stocks returned 7% a year for 200 years ended 2004, according to Wharton professor Jeremy Siegel. That’s after subtracting an average of 3% a year for inflation, or the gradual rise in prices of ordinary goods. The plunge in stock prices over the past 16 months makes me all the more sure that shares are poised to deliver good returns over the next decade or two. Houses returned 0.4% a year over 114 years ended 2004, according to Yale professor Robert Shiller, co-creator of the most widely used index for house prices. That number is suspiciously close to zero. Indeed, it might have been zero, reckons Shiller, if not for two periods of aggressive house buying, one spurred by government incentives following World War II and another created by the Federal Reserve’s drastic interest rate cuts in 2002 and 2003.

A zero return for houses might sound odd. An editor who re-published my original essay at another web site stuck the word “virtually” before zero, I suppose to soften the message. I made him take it out. If you think about it, zero is the only logical answer, so long as we’re talking about a single-family house and not, say, a rental building built to maximize income. Inflation, recall, is the gradual price rise of ordinary goods. What’s a house if not an ordinary good? Houses don’t spend their days thinking about ways to make themselves more valuable. They just sit there. Subtract inflation from their long-term price increases and there’s nothing left.

Apply heaps of leverage to the numbers if you like, but the outcome only worsens. Mortgage rates now are about as low as they’ve ever been, thanks to more government efforts to, among other things, spur house buying. But you’ll still pay 5.2% to capture long-term price increases that merely match inflation. And today, you’ll tie up a bundle of cash with a down payment. I’d rather pay cheap rent instead of an expensive mortgage and put the monthly cash I save into stocks and other investments. And rent is still plenty cheap, because . . .
Reason 2: House prices have further to fall

Price matters. Few stock investors would think about buying shares of a company before looking at some measure of how expensive it is relative to the value it creates. They might look at the price/earnings ratio, for example. Houses have a price/earnings ratio of sorts — the ratio of their price to the yearly income they could generate if rented out. In April 2007 I noted that price/earnings ratios for stocks were only slightly above their historic average, while price/rent ratios for houses were double their average.

Stock prices were the thing I got wrong. The price/earnings ratio I gave was correct, but the earnings on which it was based were far from ordinary. The fierce housing boom was ringing cash registers at furniture stores, employing heaps of real estate agents, padding the profit statements of lenders and, thanks to home equity loans, puffing up buying power for just about everything. I should have realized that America’s corporate profit was close to a third above normal levels as a percentage of gross domestic product. Profits have reverted to average levels, and stocks have fallen to around 14 times earnings. I recently cautioned readers that, even though stocks are fairly priced, it’s natural to assume that after a long period of above-average prices we can enter a few years of below-average ones.

Houses still seem expensive, though. One recent survey by Moody’s Economy.com found that the price/rent ratio in major markets had fallen to 20 from 24 three years ago, but that for 16 years ended 1999, before the house-buying spree began in earnest, it had stayed below 15.

Numbers like those should inform not only house-buying decisions, but public policy. If a citizen is being made poor by the debt they carry on the house they bought, and if a government policy keeps them tied to that house instead of separated from it into more affordable housing, are we really helping them?
Reason 3: Many houses for sale today seem designed to waste money

“Most men appear never to have considered what a house is, and are actually though needlessly poor all their lives because they think that they must have such a one as their neighbors have.” Henry David Thoreau wrote that about 160 years ago in a long, somewhat preachy but also poignant treatise called “Walden,” which argued against materialism and for simplicity. I’d imagine it applies to today’s houses even more than to ones in Thoreau’s day.

Commercial real estate investors seek to maximize the amount of use tenants can get out of a building, while minimizing the operating expenses. Single-family house buyers have lately done almost the opposite, by buying far larger houses than single families need. From the 1950s to 2006, the average American house size doubled, even as the size of families shrank. U.S. tax policy rewards house buyers who borrow, not renters, and not house buyers who pay cash. So naturally, Americans responded by borrowing, which inflated their buying power and ultimately caused dwellings themselves to balloon. The “dream of homeownership” became more of an entitlement to mansion-ownership. But all those mansions on the market do little for me, financially speaking. They’re expensive to heat and cool, and to fill with a respectable amount of stuff.
Reason 4: Big houses are targets for future taxes

This year, U.S. government debt will increase by the largest amount relative to the size of the economy since World War II. Assuming the country will eventually right its financial course, at least some of that money will have to be paid back. That means higher taxes in the future, and taxes come mostly from people with a proven ability to pay — people with high incomes and people with large, expensive, easy-to-find assets. There’s only muted talk of states raising property taxes now, since the federal government is working to support house prices. I’m worried that property taxes will rise sharply in coming years. Of course, renters pay taxes too, if you figure that landlords merely pass along taxes to tenants. But renters live in smaller spaces.

I might have titled this reason, “Few people truly own their house, anyway.” To me, owning something is defined in part by not having to pay anymore. Condo owners are really renters, if we consider their endless maintenance fees. But house owners, too, must pay rent to the government in the form of taxes, and must pay for plenty of ongoing maintenance besides.
Reason 5: Neighborhoods are changing in unpredictable ways

In March 2008, The Atlantic published a frightening vision of what might happen to America’s suburbs. Low-density suburbs, it theorized, may become what inner cities became in the 1960s and ’70s — “slums characterized by poverty, crime and decay.” I’ve no idea whether anything like that will come to pass. But the popping of America’s giant housing bubble, and a corresponding shift in where people find jobs, seems sure to reshape how and where we live in coming years. For rural folks that might not matter much. (For them, in fact, little of this might apply, since house prices in rural America have stayed pretty sane.) But anyone considering a move to the suburbs should do some careful forecasting before sinking a large portion of their wealth into a house.

I hope all this doesn’t sound alarmist. I’ll surely buy a house one day, when prices are low enough, and I’ll probably even buy one that’s a little bigger than I need. But I’ll do so knowing that I’m spending on luxury, not investing. Also, I hope this doesn’t further the anxiety of readers with mortgage troubles. The trend of the day seems to be to take an angry tone with people who’ve gotten in over their heads — one fellow columnist referred to them the other day as “deadbeats.” But two other parties deserve a full measure of blame, and I don’t mean lenders. First, lawmakers have for decades trumpeted house affordability initiatives like tax breaks, while leaving supply in choice markets constrained. That inflated demand and ultimately produced the opposite of affordability. Second, too many people who do what I do for a living spent most of the housing boom cheerleading instead of doing math. It’s time to stop lecturing renters — and maybe to ask why public policy treats them as less-worthy citizens than buyers.

 
Comment by vozworth
2009-03-09 20:12:31

take me down to the infirmary.

if you take me down down, oh yeah..I wont have to sleep or drink alone.

fetch the doctors glass…. gonna take a steady hand.

the whiskey wont sooth my soul, but if you take me down to the infirmary…

my Ginny Mae is negative….a damp cloth on my forehead, lay me down make me sleep…

let me sleep.

my heart is splintered. Winter girls are waiting.

Overwhelemled by something far ago and far away. each of us a tiny Nation.

 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-09 21:25:19

For years it has been said on the HBB, that when the tide goes REALLY out, you discover who has been swimming naked.

Denninger below shows that when the financial ponds strts draining, you discover who’s been embezzling. Embezzling, not just from their own company, but from the Treasury, and the taxpayers, and not just the USA:

“In many ways the effect of the crash on embezzlement was more significant than on suicide. To the economist embezzlement is the most interesting of crimes. Alone among the various forms of larceny it has a time parameter. Weeks, months, or years may elapse between the commission of the crime and its discovery. (This is a period, incidentally, when the embezzler has his gain and the man who has been embezzled, oddly enough, feels no loss. there is a net increase in psychic wealth.) At any given time there exists an inventory of undiscovered embezzlement in - or more precisely not in - the country’s business and banks. This inventory - it should be called the bezzle. It also varies in size with the business cycle.”

That sounds rather arcane, but if you roll it around in your head for a while, it should make sense.

Here are some examples of “The Bezzle”:

Liar loans: The borrower can’t possibly pay off the loan on the original agreed terms and the institution that makes the loan “passes it” to an investor fully aware that the borrower almost certainly lied about credit capacity.
Overly-rosy projections about growth in property values: The speaker is either incompetent (doesn’t understand exponents - a fundamental mathematical concept) or is intentionally deceiving people.
Overly-rosy projections about the stock market: “The market always comes back” and “over long periods of time it outperforms other investments.” Both true, but both misleading; if you’re 18 you might be able to wait for it to come back, but the market has remained flat to down from a given level for more than 20 years before. How long did you say it was before you intended to retire?
“The Internet is doubling every three months!”: It was - for about six months. But that got embedded into the business plans of thousands of businesses, long after the growth rate had started to slow down to something more sustainable. Oh by the way, the fundamental lie of that claim is that in 7 years the Internet would have gone from its original two people to covering more than the entire population of the planet, including the rice farmer in China and the starving child in Bangladesh.
In short The Bezzle is “the lie” that is always present in business.

The truth is always some degree of lying in business transactions - always has been, always will be. And so long as The Bezzle doesn’t become the underlying theme in business, it simply bankrupts the people who try to run it when they get discovered.

But when The Bezzle becomes the underlying premise and basis for business transactions that entire segment of the market is doomed.

Eventually the embezzled discover the fraud, and they get angry that the embezzlers stole their money. They revolt in whatever way they are able - if there is no law that gives them recourse and no government support for outing the bad actors they either turn to lawless actions or simply withdraw from the marketplace, refusing to continue to be a victim of someone else’s grand scheme of theft.

This point was reached for the US Mortgage Market, and the lending market in general, some time around the middle of 2007, when the two Bear Stearns Hedge Funds blew up.

Realization of The Bezzle always starts slowly, but it is an exponential process, because as the pool of liquidity starts to drain that has allowed the hiding of these crimes more and more dead bodies start to surface, and they all stink. This results in more and more people starting to question if they have been scammed; a process that, once it begins, becomes exponential in scope and force.

This is where Government comes in, because only government has the lawful power of deadly force. Only the government has the right to preemptively investigate and arrest people for fraud and embezzlement.

When government fails to discharge its duties in this regard over long periods of time, we wind up where we are now. The “sea of liquidity” covers the dead bodies for a time, and the government refuses to drain the swamp or arrest those who it knows are committing evil acts. Witness Madoff and Stanford, both of which were known to the government for more than a decade and yet no enforcement action was taken. Witness the Fannie and Freddie accounting scandals, which should have led to indictments, prosecutions and a shutdown of these institutions - but didn’t. Witness the appraisers petition dating back to 2000, bearing more than 10,000 signatures, that was ignored by the government.

Of course those who were part of The Bezzle and profited from it will viciously resist the termination of the cycle, because they will be bankrupted - or worse. Witness the story in the WSJ this weekend about AIG:

The beneficiaries of the government’s bailout of American International Group Inc. include at least two dozen U.S. and foreign financial institutions that have been paid roughly $50 billion since the Federal Reserve first extended aid to the insurance giant.

Among those institutions are Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Germany’s Deutsche Bank AG, each of which received roughly $6 billion in payments between mid-September and December 2008, according to a confidential document and people familiar with the matter.

It gets better. You see, Ben Bernanke said he had no authority to regulate AIG in his testimony before Congress. True. But he did have authority to regulate commercial and investment banks in this country, and if he and Greenspan had done their job we would not be here because those firms could not have bought or sold CDS with AIG - a company that had essentially no capital behind its bets.

Bank of America is trying to avoid disclosing the employees who got bonuses from taxpayer funds on a “time-shifted basis” just before it acquired Merrill Lynch; they are claiming imminent “irreparable harm”. One has to wonder if the “grave and irreparable harm” being discussed is violation of certain people’s rear ends in prison should they be sent up the river post-disclosure?

The FHA has been mightily trying to paper over the truth as well but its not working out so well:

With the surge in new loans, however, comes a new threat. Many borrowers are defaulting as quickly as they take out the loans. In the past year alone, the number of borrowers who failed to make more than a single payment before defaulting on FHA-backed mortgages has nearly tripled, far outpacing the agency’s overall growth in new loans, according to a Washington Post analysis of federal data.

Many industry experts attribute the jump in these instant defaults to factors that include the weak economy, lax scrutiny of prospective borrowers and most notably, foul play among unscrupulous lenders looking to make a quick buck.

This is yet another government attempt to hide The Bezzle instead of force it out into the open, deal with it, and imprison those responsible for it.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-09 22:59:23

“Weeks, months, or years may elapse between the commission of the crime and its discovery.”

Technically speaking, doesn’t an elapsed time of years between commission and the after effects pretty much preclude proving that a crime was committed, particularly if the delayed impact on the victim cannot be directly linked to the action by the perpetrator who committed the crime?

 
 
Comment by cobaltblue
2009-03-09 21:39:46

From Aternet: Boomers Going Bust -

It all happened faster than you can say “senior discount.”

Millions of baby boomers born into the dawn of the most spectacular economic expansion in history are being forced to re-imagine their retirement futures. Few news outlets have failed to seize upon the low-hanging pun: the boomers have gone bust.

Among the adjustments forced by the new circumstances, perhaps the cruelest twist for many boomers is the need to join younger generations in the roommate queue. The housing crash has forced record numbers of late-middle age homeowners to take in boarders or risk becoming boarders themselves. From California to Vermont, home-share organizations founded to assist the elderly are scrambling to meet the demands of newly bust boomers.

“In the last few months we’ve experienced explosive growth in interest by homeowners age 50-plus to find rooms and roommates,” says Jacqueline Grossmann, Chicago coordinator for the National Shared Housing Resource Center. “The trend now is getting younger and younger. People in their 50s and 60s are losing their nest eggs and increasingly willing to give up their privacy in exchange for rents of $500, $600 a month.”

“We’ve seen a 400 percent increase over the last few months of people nearing retirement age,” says Rita Zadoff, director of Housemate Match, a shared-housing program serving the Atlanta area. “We haven’t been this busy since we helped Katrina victims find housing.”

Kirby Dunn of Home Share Vermont reports a “huge increase” of boomers seeking roommates in the last six months. “There has been a dramatic shift from elderly clients seeking a ‘protective presence’ to younger people with ‘too much house’ seeking financial help to make mortgage and utility payments,” she says.

Most of the nation’s home-share organizations were set up with the disabled and seniors in mind. They now appeal to bust boomers because they are generally free services that screen potential housemates carefully. “Older people aren’t comfortable finding roommates through Craigslist,” says Zadoff. “They aren’t as used to the idea of letting strangers into their homes.”

Boomers are maximizing room occupancy for the same reason that their kids in their 20s and 30s are still competing for the best group rentals on Craigslist: they’re broke.

 
Comment by mrktMaven
2009-03-09 21:43:08

March 9 (Bloomberg) — Moody’s Corp., which has been criticized for missing mortgage market problems, plans to release a list of companies tomorrow it deems most likely to default on loans….

The list, called the “Bottom Rung,” contains 283 companies from sectors including retail, casinos and energy….

 
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