March 15, 2009

Learning Their Lesson About The Housing Bubble

A report from the Arizona Daily Star. “This housing downturn is so vast that even the high-end custom market is getting battered and bruised. For proof, look no further than the SAHBA Parade of Homes. In a sign of the times, only two of the homes have sold, and at least four of the builders are in talks with the bank. But builder Steve Canatsey said that if he could do the Parade of Homes again, he would. His 4,000-square-foot territorial home has yet to sell, although he said he is in negotiations with a potential buyer, and the listed price has dropped from nearly $2 million to $1.5 million as the market has declined. ‘Quite honestly, I have never seen what I call the wealth market be on the sidelines like it is in this time,’ he said. ‘In the years past, the people who have had substantial means don’t alter to any great extent their purchasing. Today, they do. Everyone is taking a wait-and-see attitude.’”

“It was during the peak of the market in 2006 that organizers began planning the parade. Timing is everything, and the conventional wisdom is if the Parade of Homes had happened in, say, 2006, these homes would have sold faster than you could say ‘before the bubble burst.’”

“Joseph Smith Jr. of Golden Star Properties, (is) a custom home builder who considered taking part in the Parade of Homes but ultimately didn’t. Smith said early discussions were more modest, with some builders talking about putting up $600,000 homes. But as plans became more extravagant, he backed out because he couldn’t make the numbers work.”

“Certainly bad timing played a role in the Parade of Homes’ struggles, but Smith said in the go-go market of 2006, people forgot that with every venture comes risk. ‘The prevailing mentality was that there was no way to lose,’ he said. ‘I think the general take-away is, living within your means as an individual and also as a company. Because really they were rolling the dice, and they were expecting a huge return off these custom homes.’”

“‘Some time in 2011 you will see a slow uptick in the number of permits,’ says Ed Taczanowsky, president of the Southern Arizona Home Builders Association. “It won’t be anything like we had in the past. I think everyone has learned their lesson about the housing bubble. People are going to be buying homes as homes, not as investments.’”

“During the housing run, the emphasis was on bigger and bigger homes, notes custom builder Paul Hubble. The mentality was ‘the bigger the better, and the more amenities the better,’ he says. ‘You wanted to have everything in it, and square footage wasn’t a problem because people had money and the stock market was doing well. I don’t think you are going to see that as much anymore.’”

“More than 96,000 properties in Arizona, mostly homes, are either scheduled for auction or are now bank-owned, according to RealtyTrac. The majority of those properties, about 75,000, are in Maricopa County.”

“Many in the local building industry say foreclosures will continue to undercut new home construction and drive down prices for traditional resales. Case in point: Much of the foreclosure inventory across the state cited by RealtyTrac hasn’t yet come on the market. ‘That is the elephant in the living room,’ said John L. Strobeck, who tracks Southern Arizona real estate and housing data. ‘We are just going to live with this foreclosure market. We will be down in the 130s (for a median home price) before this is over.’”

“With five-year adjustable-rate mortgages expected to re-set in 2010, Strobeck said he expects even more foreclosures to come on the market and for new construction not to pick up until possibly 2011. ‘We are really at the beginning of the foreclosure mess,’ he said.”

“Those new homes that are being sold are specifically designed to compete with the foreclosure market. For example, KB Home recently kicked off a new line of homes called the Open Series. These homes are energy-efficient, allow buyers to design their own floor plans and come with 10-year warranties. But the line’s pricing, starting at $99,000, is aimed directly at the foreclosure market.”

The East Valley Tribune. “Arizona is behind only Michigan in the percentage of job losses during this recession, based on figures from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, said Lee McPheters, director of the JPMorgan Chase Economic Outlook Center at ASU. This is largely because of declines in businesses closely related to growth and home building, he said.”

“‘Going into the recession, Arizona was one of the leading job-growth states,’ he said. ‘So we had further to fall. … Arizona is a high flier that went the other way.’”

The Verde News from Arizona. “A lot of ground has been covered to prepare for the new Cottonwood fiscal budget (July 2009 through June 2010), but the Council got a taste of what the city is facing in the new year and it will make for difficult and possibly unsavory work. Cottonwood Finance Director Rudy Rodriguez told the council, ‘It will be a very tight year.’”

“That may have been an understatement. Almost all forms of revenue are down, especially the city sales tax collections. Cottonwood sales taxes, which make up 60 percent of city revenues, have declined by almost 9-cents on the dollar. State revenue sharing is down 12 percent. Because they are collected two years earlier, state income tax is on target this year, but will plunge 13 percent next year. The vehicle license tax is down nearly 7 percent. Auto sales are down to the level reached before the year 2000. One dealership has moved from Cottonwood to Camp Verde. Sales have plummeted from $5 million to half of that amount.”

“A 1-percent construction sales tax, mostly dedicated to road building, has also slowed consistent with the sluggish housing industry. Rodriguez wanted to call his latest budget planning session, ‘There’s no money, Go Home.’”

From KRNV TV in Nevada. “A new report says leading indicators show housing woes in Washoe County are far from over. The report by RealtyTrac says the Reno-area last month jumped to eighth place in foreclosures among 200 metropolitan areas. Southern Nevada’s Clark County topped the national list.”

“The number of Washoe County homes in foreclosures jumped to 557 in February, up from 71 a year earlier. Additionally, the report says the number of default notices rose to 711, nearly double the 363 reported during the same period last year. The recent ranking is just another dubious distinction for Nevadans, who are getting used to leading negative trends nationwide, while consistently ranking lowest on the positive lists. And one local economist says there’s a good reason for that.”

“‘Nevada had a bigger boom– or bubble, as we call it– so when it burst, we fell farther,’ said Thomas Cargill, Ph.D., who teaches economics at UNR. ‘There was more imprudent lending, more misrepresentation of the ability to pay, and a lack of concern by lenders who didn’t check [on buyers' credit].’”

The Reno Gazette Journal from Nevada. “Before the housing bubble’s collapse, short sales were the housing equivalent of mystery meat. People might have heard about them but didn’t quite know what to make of them. Fast forward to the present, and short sales have since entered the mainstream lingo.”

“Just a year ago, short sales remained an unattractive option for lenders even as they started to vigorously focus on foreclosures as a way to get distressed properties off their books. But like spurned lovers on the rebound, short sales are getting a second look from banks. A prime culprit is the skyrocketing default rate, which has jumped nationwide from less than 1 percent just two years ago to 7 percent, said Dennis Green, general manager of (a) foreclosure listing site.”

“‘In a normal year, a short sale was a fairly rare occurrence,’ Green said. ‘Obviously, what we’re looking at now are extraordinary times. I don’t think lenders really understood the severity of the problem and the sheer volume of distressed properties that would be coming into the marketplace.’”

“Based on Northern Nevada MLS data, short sales accounted for 1,253 of the 4,082 listings in the Reno-Sparks market as of March 10, said Mitch Argon, broker-owner of CalNeva Realty. At about 31 percent of the market, the number of short sales trump bank-owned foreclosures, which make up 21 percent of local inventory.”

“The increase in short sale volume in the last couple of years has been ‘tremendous,’ local Realtor Stacey Berger said. ‘I first recall seeing a few short sale listings in late 2006 and early 2007,’ Berger said. ‘Back then, most agents didn’t even know what they were because they were so new to this area. Now, the market is flooded with them, especially in lower price ranges and newer developments. In some areas, a buyer has no choice but to pursue a short sale or (a bank-owned foreclosure).’”

“Horror stories of transactions taking months and months and months are not unusual, according to people familiar with short sales. And in a market where home prices can drop within a month, taking too much time is bad news. ‘A buyer might look back and say, ‘Well, the market dropped another 10 percent so I don’t think the house is now worth my original offer,’ Green said. ‘Or maybe the buyer just gets sick tired of waiting and chooses another property instead.’”

The Las Vegas Sun from Nevada. “Las Vegas home sales edged up slightly in February, but nothing seems to stop falling prices, which have dropped 50 percent from their peak. The Greater Las Vegas Association of Realtors reported this week that the median home price fell 2.7 percent in February to $155,603. That’s down from $160,000 in January and 37 percent from February 2008.”

“The $155,603 price marks a 50.6 percent decline from the market’s peak in June 2006 when the median price was $315,000, according to the Realtors’ group. The organization tracks only single-family homes sales on the MLS.”

“In the condo and town house market, the 442 sales were 0.5 percent higher than in January and 166 percent greater than February 2008, the Realtors reported. But prices of condos sold on the MLS continued to decline. The median price was $75,000, a 6.3 percent drop from the $80,000 price in January. That’s a 50 percent drop since February 2008. There were 1,204 new listings of condos and town houses in February with a median price of $94,400, a 5.5 percent decline from January.”

“In February 2,268 home sold, a 2.9 percent increase over January. Despite the increase in sales, that mark is nowhere close to the market’s peak when 3,552 homes sold in June 2004. ‘These statistics are in line with trends we’ve seen over the past year or so,’ the Realtor group’s president, Sue Naumann, said. ‘It’s encouraging to see more homes selling each month, but we know declining prices are driving these increasing sales.’”

“Bank-owned properties account for at least three out of every four sales and those foreclosures continue to force home prices to fall, she said.”

In Business Las Vegas from Nevada. “It doesn’t sound good when there is an analogy between the Las Vegas economy and cliff diving, but that’s how UNLV economist Keith Schwer described the latest numbers released March 10 by the Center for Business and Economic Research. All 10 categories of the Southern Nevada Index of Leading Economic Indicators declined in February, eight by double digits from last year’s levels. The components of the index have even fallen below their counterparts in the national index, he said.”

“‘It is dropping precipitously,’ Schwer said. ‘It’s what we refer to as a cliff-diving chart.’”

“The main index fell 4.68 percent in February compared with February 2008. One of the biggest reasons for the decline was a 16.7 percent drop in taxable sales in December, the latest monthly data available, Schwer said. The second biggest drag on the index was a 75 percent decline in the value of housing permits issued in December. There were only 148 home permits issued in December - a 25-year low.”

“Construction had a horrific month with the Clark County Construction Index down 36 percent, Schwer said. Since September, the index has fallen more than 30 percent when compared with the previous year. Commercial construction is headed down the same road as residential activity, said Jeremy Aguero, an economist.”

“Construction jobs are down more than 11,000 and those losses have created job losses elsewhere, Schwer said. The Las Vegas jobless rate reached 10 percent in January. ‘The rise in unemployment does not bode well for the housing market,’ Schwer said. ‘It puts further pressure on foreclosures.’”

The Review Journal from Nevada. “ManhattanWest had two ’savior groups’ that wanted to rescue the mixed-use condo project in the southwestern Las Vegas Valley, but the developer refused to talk with them and went into hiding, one of the project’s lienholders said. More than $30 million in liens have been filed against ManhattanWest, which halted construction in December. Developer Alex Edelstein said the project is a casualty of the financial crisis and that he’s looking for a group of investors to finish the project.”

“‘Alex won’t call them back, won’t take their calls and can’t be found,’ said Jeff Glass of Hydro Pressure Cleaning, whose company is owed about $500,000 for seismic repair on concrete columns.”

“‘I talk to groups all the time, but so far it’s all hat and no cattle,’ Edelstein said. ‘They tend to want me to produce masses of material for them but are reluctant to verify any of their bonafides.’”

“The only assets trading hands right now are doing so at the most distressed of possible prices, and bankers aren’t willing to write down ManhattanWest to that level, he said. ‘They, like me, think it will be worth much more than the market is valuing it at,’ he said.”

“ManhattanWest is the latest condo project to go belly-up in Las Vegas. Last year, Mira Villa condos and Vantage Lofts stopped construction and went into bankruptcy. Sullivan Square had barely begun excavation before the project was canceled. Spanish View Towers was the first high-rise project to stop construction after partially building an underground parking garage.”

CBS News on Nevada. “Ever since Vegas sprang from the desert in the 1940s it seemed a place immune to the economic ups and downs of humbler cities. There were always more customers for every new hotel, casino and show. Vegas has long been the place where people came to find work when they couldn’t find it anywhere else. And when the rest of the country was booming, Vegas boomed even more.”

“‘Between 2003 and 2007, we saw housing prices essentially double in the Southern Nevada area,’ said Jeremy Aguero, an economic analyst in Las Vegas. ‘We were growing faster than everybody else. We were selling more houses. We were building more office buildings. We were building more hotels than anyone else in the nation.’”

“Now this city of excess has an excess of all the wrong things. ‘On a per-household basis, we have among the nation’s highest rates of foreclosure, the highest rate of unemployment claims,’ Aguero said. ‘You see the lowest rate of population growth in probably 50 years.’”

“Miles from the Strip, Tanya Rucker worries she won’t have her little home to come home to. Like nearly 60 percent of the people in Las Vegas with a mortgage, she owes more than her house is worth. ‘I’ll be honest, I paid $226,000 for it,’ she said. ‘And now, I think they’re selling for, at the most, $180,000, some maybe $170,000.’”

“A single mother with a four-year-old daughter, her income has dropped dramatically as fewer people come to the spa where she works. ‘When I first moved here, I think that I thought the grass would be greener here,’ Rucker said. ‘And it was, for a long time.’”




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85 Comments »

Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-15 11:50:06

‘In the condo and town house market, the 442 sales…There were 1,204 new listings of condos and town houses in February’

Almost 3 times as many new listings as sales. No problem there!

Comment by mikey
2009-03-15 18:21:40

Ben, did you ever honestly imagine that these bad housing, unemployment and bailout figures would come at us THIS fast and furious ?

Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-15 20:00:54

Bbbbut Bernacke says the recession is over in 09..
I get confused once or twice at the beginning of
a year..isn’t this 09?

What about the Elephant in the room? the one where
the majority of foreclosures are not even seeing the
light of day from most banks.??

 
 
 
Comment by WT Economist
2009-03-15 11:54:37

“‘When I first moved here, I think that I thought the grass would be greener here,’ Rucker said. ‘And it was, for a long time.’”

OK Southwesterners, please explain why someone looking for a place where the grass is greener would move to a desert?!

Comment by Bob in Vegas
2009-03-15 12:00:51

Because they think water for their sprinkler systems and swimming pools is a cheap, unlimited resource…

In other words, they don’t think!

Comment by Manny
2009-03-15 21:12:51

Water IS cheap in Las Vegas at least it was for me.

My water bill in Las Vegas was about $30 to $40 a month including sewer. In Atlanta, my bill is $70 to $80 including sewer. Water consumption is the same.

 
 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-15 12:48:17

I saw this piece earlier today on Sunday Morning.
It was very enjoyable, but then again, I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-15 13:05:45

Because all the folks from the midwest, where it rains, moved here and planted the allergy prone bushes/trees/flowers, cause they missed the stuff. Now the desert areas have some of the highest #s of Allergy MD’s.
Along with plastic surgeons, cause the heat dries out the skin and we all look saggy earlier.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-03-15 16:39:03

When I got ready to “bail” from San Jose back in the beginning of 2006, I got out the map of the US and thought about where I wanted to relocate for retirement. One of the first regions I crossed off my list was the southwest generally, due to lack of water in the long run. California over to west Texas is going to be in a heap of hurt in the long run with huge amounts of political battles to be fought over water.

After crossing off many places, the remaining states were VA/NC and the PNW. I guess I’m not very tolerant.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-15 17:18:48

You’d love it in New England.

Comment by DennisN
2009-03-15 17:28:49

Nah, New England has too many liberals, too many taxes, and too drastic winters for my taste.

I’ve actually spent a reasonable amount of time in about 40 states due to extensive business travel over the decades so I was in a position to judge what I do and don’t like.

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Comment by not a gator
2009-03-15 18:18:05

wait, you take PNW over NE on strength of liberals and weather? (not arguing on taxes, generally speaking, but then again, that is VERY dependent on your tax bracket–when I was low income, Mass was like a free ride while “lower tax” VA was EVIL; if you’re a trust fund baby, Mass isn’t too bad either; and hello, NH has no income tax–but for all I know, PNW is cheaper)

Western liberals are more liberal than Eastern liberals. The problem in the East are the nutty academic liberals, who are, like, nutty. (Neo-Marxism or some other goofy academic-philosophy theory.)

I grew up hearing about how “liberal” Mass was. Then I traveled to some other parts of the country and found out otherwise. The Northeast is only liberal in comparison to DelMarVa (which is obviously the only other place that exists, I mean, can you take Acela there? if not, it doesn’t exist).

The harshness of the winter is in direct proportion to how far from the ocean you go (unless you are right ON the ocean, then you have problems). Ditto for harshness of the summer. For all the bellyaching on TV every time NYC has an outbreak of slush, it’s actually not that bad…Chicago. Now that’s cold.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-03-15 18:23:17

“Nah, New England has too many liberals”

Do they have horns? Carry pitchforks? Or are they little green men? What does people look like?

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-03-15 18:47:13

Out of the PNW, I picked Idaho. Seems conservative enough for me.

 
Comment by exeter
2009-03-15 18:55:36

Idaho, the home of Larry Craig? Yeah…. there’s your conservatism. Barney Frank doesn’t lie about it nor condemn anyone else either.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-15 19:25:13

“Nah, New England has too many liberals, too many taxes, and too drastic winters for my taste. ”

How bout NH? No sales tax, no state income tax, and local government is actually kept under control.

Your impression of “New England” appears to be confined to MA and CT.

 
Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-15 20:05:48

Idaho, where you can find encouragement for
multiple wives, and also tap dancing under mens
bathroom walls, doing finger tapping signals for
intimate encounters.??? that Idaho?

 
Comment by SaladSD
2009-03-15 20:26:10

Yeah, Coeur d’Alene, Idaho should suit you quite hell, I mean well. Lots o’ Aryan Nation, no evil liberals for miles.

 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-15 21:18:14

As opposed to those wonderfully racially tolerant Bostonians who rioted when a judge integrated their high schools. Give me a break.

 
Comment by DennisN
2009-03-16 00:23:49

The Aryan Nations guys got run out of town a decade ago. That’s old news. If Larry Craig had come out, nobody around here would have cared, which is the tragedy of his case. All he had to do was to level with the voters.

No, I’ve spent some time in NH and RI as well. RI is a tragic post-industrial state outside of Newport: sort of like Detroit on the Atlantic. NH bothered me since it’s completely surrounded by states unlike itself. NE states are all so tiny that you drive 50 miles in any direction and you’re in another state. Once I got lost at night leaving the Boston airport and the next thing I saw were the signs reading “welcome to Rhode Island”.

OR and WA are generally conservative places but the folks in the hinterlands are outvoted by blocs in Seattle and Portland. As DinOR will tell you there’s a big difference between Portland and, say, Klamath Falls.

 
 
Comment by jane
2009-03-15 23:22:45

That was a joke, right? About New England?

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Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-15 11:56:27

‘Quite honestly, I have never seen what I call the wealth market be on the sidelines like it is in this time,’ he said. ‘In the years past, the people who have had substantial means don’t alter to any great extent their purchasing. Today, they do. Everyone is taking a wait-and-see attitude.’

I wonder if this article might help explain that wait-and-see attitude?

New York Times
Household Wealth Falls by Trillions
By VIKAS BAJAJ
Published: March 12, 2009

In the last few months, most Americans have felt poorer. Now they have the numbers to prove it.

The net worth of Warren E. Buffett, left, fell by $25 billion last year.

The fortune of Bill Gates fell by $18 billion, but he regained the top spot on the Forbes list of richest people.

The Federal Reserve reported Thursday that households lost $5.1 trillion, or 9 percent, of their wealth in the last three months of 2008, the most ever in a single quarter in the 57-year history of recordkeeping by the central bank.

For the full year, household wealth dropped $11.1 trillion, or about 18 percent. Though the numbers do not yet reflect it, the decline in the stock market so far this year has probably erased trillions more in the country’s collective net worth.

The next biggest annual decline in wealth came in 2002, when household net worth fell 3 percent after the collapse of the technology bubble. The most recent loss of wealth is staggering and will probably put further pressure on the economy because many people will have to spend less and save more.

Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-15 12:04:57

IMHO, one would have to either be rich or very foolish to buy a home right at the moment, as this huge drop in household wealth has massive implications for a dearth of high-end buyers. Consequently, the market value of high-end homes will fall, and these set an upper bound on the market value of less desirable (lower quality) homes.

Comment by Ernst Blofeld
2009-03-15 14:08:36

Yep. Death for the second home and resort market as well. When things get bad enough they’ll sell the lake house or golf condo, and there won’t be a lot of buyers.

A look by a bunch of lefties at the boomer wealth situation:

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/baby-boomer-wealth-2009-02.pdf

Comment by mikey
2009-03-15 19:31:15

Tx Enrst …Interesting link and study

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Comment by rms
2009-03-15 22:56:54

Thanks, EB.

I know many folks in those two age cohort. The foolish in both are broke, but the conservative among them are fine; the early boomers had the advantage of home ownership prior to the inflation of the seventies as well as jobs with defined pension benefits.

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Comment by Will
2009-03-16 01:54:34

Thanks Ernst. I especially liked the conclusion:

“Finally, the projections show that for both age groups, the renters within each wealth quintile in
2004 will have more wealth in 2009 than homeowners in all three scenarios…..Homeownership is not everywhere and always an effective way to accumulate
wealth.”

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Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-15 14:32:20

Loss of wealth is troubling sure, but more troubling still is the issue of future cash flow? Where’s future cash flow going to come from for lots of folks? Will it ever be as “robust” as it once was?

Like this King - O - the understatement sez:

Schwer said…‘The rise in unemployment does not bode well for the housing market,’

No savings, no income, no houses.

 
 
 
Comment by Blano
2009-03-15 12:06:46

“Joseph Smith Jr. of Golden Star Properties, (is) a custom home builder who considered taking part in the Parade of Homes but ultimately didn’t. Smith said early discussions were more modest, with some builders talking about putting up $600,000 homes. But as plans became more extravagant, he backed out because he couldn’t make the numbers work.”

$600,000 = modest = insane.

Comment by not a gator
2009-03-15 18:21:55

He said ‘more modest’ that’s a comparative, not an absolute. And custom homebuilding seems like that would be the higher end homes. The big boys make the cheap krrepp mass-produced homes and the low end buys ‘em used or plunks a trailer on it. (I was going to say the low end builds their own, but then I realized that was two generations ago.)

 
 
Comment by Ben Jones
2009-03-15 12:10:20

BTW, kudos to lavi for finding Manhattan West for our foreclosure tour.

Hey, Review Journal, can you say SCOOPED!

 
Comment by 2banana
2009-03-15 12:56:20

“Those new homes that are being sold are specifically designed to compete with the foreclosure market. For example, KB Home recently kicked off a new line of homes called the Open Series. These homes are energy-efficient, allow buyers to design their own floor plans and come with 10-year warranties. But the line’s pricing, starting at $99,000, is aimed directly at the foreclosure market.”

More reports like this will signal a bottom (at least in a few states).

Comment by B. Durbin
2009-03-15 13:43:55

There’s a condo conversion that we drive past on a daily basis. When they first converted– at the height of the market– they were retailing for $250K. That’s for 2/2 condos in Elk Grove, CA– not exactly Tracy or Manteca, but still at only $70K median income.

It’s been a constant source of amusement to us to see the banners change over time. Current price is $99K. “So what would you pay for it?” asks Evil Rob. “I dunno– $30K? It’s still a condo…”

 
Comment by Reuven
2009-03-15 13:45:03

It should make us all realize that if Barney, Nancy, Chris, and “community organizers” like BHO didn’t demand that banks give $417,000 mortgages to everyone….there would have been livable $99,000 homes available in every market already.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-15 14:01:46

I guess you were out of the Country when the Great Decider expressed his desire for an “ownership society” and showed off his numbers.
Stupidity and theft is non-partisan, when will we all here agree to this simple fact?

Comment by Reuven
2009-03-15 14:33:12

I don’t disagree! But why, now, when it’s so obvious that the Republican “ownership society” rhetoric was so dangerous and ill-advised does our current regime still promote it?

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-15 15:59:44

“I don’t disagree! But why, now, when it’s so obvious that the Republican “ownership society” rhetoric was so dangerous and ill-advised does our current regime still promote it?”

Reuven, my guess is both stupidity and larceny.
What % I do not know.
Who is 100% on the stupid side and free from larceny (0%) I do not know.
I am no economist and as ignorant as a coquina rock at noon on many things that FPSS and PB know.
But this I do know from reading countless books: never underestimate human stupidity.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-03-15 14:35:27

“Stupidity and theft is non-partisan, when will we all here agree to this simple fact?”

Thank you. I wish some of the citizens of the US could get this through their thick skulls. Playing the game of Dem vs Rep, liberal vs. conservative is SOOOOO yesterday. It’s like watching 40 year old women play with Barbie dolls, or men playing GI Joe. That was all a game, and the Game. Is. Over. So’s the race game. Because now we know that black, white or brown, there’s only one color that really matters, and that’s the long green.

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Comment by Muir
2009-03-15 16:01:07

That brought a smile to my face, thx.

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-03-15 18:24:55

+1e06

 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-15 21:23:04

Your premise falsely assumes that Bush was a conservative. We went from a liberal for 8 years to an even bigger liberal today. There never was a conservative vs. liberal fight. It was only over varying degrees of liberalism.

 
Comment by Julius
2009-03-16 08:13:19

“Your premise falsely assumes that Bush was a conservative. We went from a liberal for 8 years to an even bigger liberal today. There never was a conservative vs. liberal fight. It was only over varying degrees of liberalism.”

Great point. Bush’s behavior frankly paints him as one of (if not THE) most liberal presidents in history.

 
 
 
 
Comment by Muir
2009-03-15 13:57:59

“But the line’s pricing, starting at $99,000, is aimed directly at the foreclosure market.”

Anyone still want to debate me that a house costs less than $50 psqf under roof?

(This is obviously a “on your lot” price. Probably a small 1200 sq ft under a/c with around 1600 sq ft total. A very small house.)
If they are making 20K per house, the cost is exactly $50 psqf.
My guess is that they are the same greedy f**** and are making closer to $35K.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-15 17:26:52

“Anyone still want to debate me that a house costs less than $50 psqf under roof?”

If I remember correctly, I was the first to take heat for suggesting that shacks can be and are built for $45-55 a square as long ago as early 2006. And I’ll wager it can be done for less in the current environment. Lots of excess lumber out there from temporary construction, shoring etc. not to mention loads of hungry labor.

Comment by Michael Fink
2009-03-16 04:32:41

Not I, that’s for sure. I nearly got beheaded on this blog, and others, 4 years ago for suggesting that anything over 100/sq/ft (including the land) was the absolute upper limit for anything that’s non-waterfront in FL. Looks like I was a Pollyanna! :)

Still, I have a family member who built during the boom for <100/sq/ft. It’s a wonderful house, all the upgrades (SS, granite, crowns, etc), competitive with a Toll Bros home (which, at that time, was selling for 300+sq/ft in my area).

If you pay over 100/sq/ft you better have a REAL good reason for it (SFH on deep water w/dock, oceanfront, middle of a great neighborhood in a huge city, etc).

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Comment by desertdweller
2009-03-15 20:12:28

Don’t forget the cost of water/elec/sewer hookup and street paving etc.

 
 
Comment by edgewaterjohn
2009-03-15 14:17:24

But how does building more new stock at foreclosure prices signal a bottom? Seems like they’ll just wind up pumping up the supply even more and prices will continue to slide.

 
 
Comment by Carlos Cisco
2009-03-15 13:39:41

If you’ve got any new housing priced at $7000, you might make it in the Northern Ohio market; no more than $5000 for the Southern Ohio market (called New Appalachia). They abandoned the Parade of Homes this year.

Comment by palmetto
2009-03-15 14:37:19

The Parade of Homes. LMAO! The realtors around here get all moist with delight and their bottoms start to quiver whenever they talk about the Parade of Homes. The Parade of Homes is now more like a chain gang.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-15 17:36:11

This “home” stuff is really getting old. Is anyone else here old enough to recall a house actually called a house? Do you remember when you bought your first house? Did you tell people “I just bought a ‘home’” or “I bought a house”? Is an empty house for sale a “home”? No. It’s an empty house and certainly not a “home” by virtue of the fact that it’s empty.

Ok now bust my balls… tell me I’m splitting hairs and the “home” insidiousness isn’t a REIC marketing technique.

Comment by AnonyRuss
2009-03-16 00:01:05

“This “home” stuff is really getting old. Is anyone else here old enough to recall a house actually called a house? Do you remember when you bought your first house? Did you tell people “I just bought a ‘home’” or “I bought a house”? Is an empty house for sale a “home”? No. It’s an empty house and certainly not a “home” by virtue of the fact that it’s empty.
Ok now bust my balls… tell me I’m splitting hairs and the “home” insidiousness isn’t a REIC marketing technique.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I remember one REIC-brainwashed relative who even called her neighbor’s shoddy, inner-city Phoenix condo investment a “home.” At the time, it was a trashed, would-be rental 10 miles from its “owner’s” residence and nobody lived in it. I always say house (when referring to a sfh) or condominum because I resent the manipulation.

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Comment by oxide
2009-03-16 05:42:48

They call it a “home” so that they can include attached product, like townhomes and condos. “House” implies SFH, but SFH are just not profitable enough.

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Comment by not a gator
2009-03-15 18:26:08

LMAO!! From the way the paper pimps it, you’d think it was the social event of the year. Why would you even care unless you are planning to build a custom home next year? And out of 200k people, maybe 80k households, most of whom make 39k annual OR LESS, how many would that be in any one year? Five? I mean, wtf?

 
Comment by iftheshoefits
2009-03-15 18:27:20

OK, that image of realtor’s bottoms quivering was good for an extended snicker.

 
 
Comment by mikey
2009-03-15 19:42:03

Northern Ohio won’t be the ONLY place in the US you can call “New Appalachia” before this bottoms out.

 
 
Comment by palmetto
2009-03-15 14:40:45

“Rodriguez wanted to call his latest budget planning session, ‘There’s no money, Go Home.’”

LOL, but more and more people are homeless and living in tents. Recent bunch of new stories about this.

 
Comment by Temporal
2009-03-15 14:54:29

So I’m having a hard time comprehending these numbers…

75,000 homes in maricopa are bank owned/forclosed.

How is it everyone around me currently in a home (at least 5-6 people -just in my office of 15 people total-) is 3-10 months past due on the thing and STILL havent been forclosed/evicted?

It’s spreading like a contagion here at my workplace, numbers are down, income is down, and one by one the home owners go delinquent. So far, not one forclosure, apparently not even the START of one. This leads to the few holdouts starting to say “hey, maybe I shouldnt be paying on my mortgage either”. One of them (fully capable of paying his mortgage) is specifically letting it go delinquent in hopes of the bank reducing his mortgage to pay for the pool and 10,000$ barbeque grill he put in his back yard last year. Disgusting. Another guy (the one 10 months behind) recently added a renter to a spare bedroom, his idea being if they do finally try to forclose/evict he will spring the renter on them at the last minute (requiring them to serve -him- a 3 month eviction notice). His goal is to live in this house 1-2 years payment free then let them eat it. I used to think he was crazy, now I think he might actually pull it off. He’s getting PAID to live there for god sakes, right off the golf course.

I get the feeling the banks have so many homes on the roll they aren’t willing to add to the number at the present time. I wonder what the true numbers would be if they were actually following through with removal of these “homeowners”………

It even effects me worse, I’ve always been good in this business because I could outlast the other people during negative cycles. We would go into a bad stretch of business and shrink in staff by 1/3rd or more simply because many of them had too many bills to afford sticking around at reduced pay. This would lead to a bigger slice of the pie for me, and I’d come out of it doing better then ever! As it sits many of these people are sitting in their McMansions, enjoying their 10,000$ barbeques, and spending vastly less then I’m shelling out for a small 2 bedroom appartment with no end in sight. They aren’t leaving, they are accepting mcdonalds wages and sitting it out. Can you tell it’s starting to wear on me?

Sigh.
Temporal

Comment by Natalie
2009-03-15 15:08:50

A desire to reward this type of behavior is why the ppl love obama. He is all about beating the system and being a drain on society. A real scum bag. Obama’s socialistic, anti-american sentiment will rip this country apart.

Comment by Temporal
2009-03-15 16:12:46

How did this turn to an Obama bashing reply?

I was trying to comprehend how we got to 75,000 forclosed/bank owned homes when I don’t know a single person who has been forclosed/evicted (and I know lots of people that -should- be). The people I know currently past due on their mortgages represent a pretty broad set of belief’s, and several of them are highly anti-obama republicans.

I’m thinking this isn’t really an Obama issue, and I have a feeling things would be -exactly- the same regardless of who the figurehead at the top was. Eh, nevermind, I should rethink that, things could be worse (cue the Palin behind the podium picture with the “McCain suffers heart attack” headline on CNN).

A funny sidenote to help you guys understand what I’m seeing. Out of this small office, there is only 1 person currently making their house payment. Nobody’s been forclosed. Am I the only one seeing this? Is this not as common as I’m being led to believe?

Comment by whino
2009-03-15 17:22:53

“A funny sidenote to help you guys understand what I’m seeing. Out of this small office, there is only 1 person currently making their house payment. Nobody’s been forclosed. Am I the only one seeing this? Is this not as common as I’m being led to believe?”

I can’t answer that question but at this point I wouldent doubt it. When our leaders in office started all these bailouts, I had a feeling most everyone would try to get their share. Most people are either angry about Wall Street getting bailout money, Homeloaners getting bailout money or both.

Why not? They have nothing to lose but the house and most think they will just buy another one in 3 years after the forclosure. I have no idea how the PTB will change the tide on this.

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Comment by not a gator
2009-03-15 18:39:14

No, there are people through my work circle who have stopped paying and have yet to be evicted. (Not anyone I work with directly, at least who admits it, but at least one person known to a coworker of mine.) I guess it depends who was writing the MTGs where you lived, but some of these co’s or the co’s they were selling to are very disorganized and I think that is the issue. The more with-it firms are jumping on it, while the disorganized, BK, sold assets five times to some overseas idiots firms can’t even figure out what they own and who’s supposed to be paying them. That would be my guess. You also don’t necessarily know who’s been sent papers and sent back the old “sure, prove to me you own this mortgage and I’ll pay you” response.

My burg has piles of foreclosures on the market, piles of unoccupied units, etc. What’s shocking to me is how slow CRE is crashing, I mean, comm. projects started that were DOA and I’m shocked that to this day the bank has not yet had to eat it. I expect Millennium Bank, for one, to crash and burn but I’m getting bored waiting for the reckoning to arrive.

One more thing: Obama has NOT done anything to force the financials to stop foreclosing on ppl. Obama and Bush both announced some voluntary plans, but there certainly has been no law or decree or edict (legal or otherwise) which forced the lender to stop foreclosure proceedings. (Some LOCAL jurisdictions HAVE interfered, but you would know if that were the case.) So it is disingenous in the extreme (or perhaps simply ignorant?) to blame the president for lenders’ failure to act. They are messed up b/c they sold mtg’s in boiler rooms, the whole market crashed, and now they’re overwhelmed by the mess they created. Bottom line. IMO, it’s too big for the president. Not even the WS Playaz could stop this tidal wave–and they tried.

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Comment by Barbara King
2009-03-15 21:56:49

Read my comment at the end of threat.

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Comment by SanFranciscoBayAreaGal
2009-03-15 18:34:31

Dear Natalie,

You need to look at Bush and his people. See how many of them have beaten the system and have been a drain on society. Obama scum? Bush makes Obama look like a white knight.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-15 19:00:02

SanFranciscoBayAreaGal,

Is it a full moon tonite? ;)

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Comment by Bill in Carolina
2009-03-15 19:10:45

Obama’s only been in office for two months already. Give him time.

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Comment by Manny
2009-03-15 21:33:56

“Citi said the moratorium is effective Feb. 12 and will remain in place until March 12, or until the Obama Administration finalizes the details of its loan modification program, whichever comes first, the bank said. The suspension will apply to home loans on a borrower’s principal residence and to loans serviced by Citi in cases where an understanding has been reached with the investor.”

And I’m sure Citi did all this on its own without any nudging from Obama who now owns 40% of the bank.

And Obama has more or less told the country that “help is on the way”….meaning don’t worry about a thing, we’ll fix all your problems including paying off your mortgage.

It’s amazing to me how people on this site who have been waiting for years to buy a home support Obama. He will do everything in his power to keep home prices artificially high and tax you more in order to do it.

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Comment by Bob in Vegas
2009-03-15 19:04:18

Perhaps you prefer the debt slavery offered up by Bush and his cohorts.

 
Comment by SaladSD
2009-03-15 20:34:41

E tu, Dittohead?

 
 
Comment by Barbara King
2009-03-15 21:50:32

I can tell you that they do not have a mortgage with Wells Fargo.
I am 2 months behind and they informed me in writing that they will file foreclosure if they haven’t gotten the money by next month.

 
 
Comment by Esko Kiuru
2009-03-15 14:57:00

Las Vegas has been riding on a high note for so long that people here got to believing that they don’t need to worry about national economic trends. This downturn is teaching everyone a painful lesson. Recovery here will likely take a while but Sin City will rise from the ashes. And hopefully be much smarter in handling its affairs.

Comment by Bob in Vegas
2009-03-15 19:05:49

I wouldn’t want to be in Vegas when Lake Mead runs dry in a few years…

 
 
Comment by Himmi
2009-03-15 15:46:31

If the difference between foreclosure and short sale is to avoid credit score, then it should be fixed.
These people sell it short to save money and immediately plan to buy a new house(apparently cheap)

Comment by Muir
2009-03-15 16:58:30

OT

So what ya think about the 60 minutes interview?

Comment by palmetto
2009-03-15 17:14:13

You mean the Bernanke-panky? I think it was an excellent piece of public relations. And all the small-town background on Benny was a stroke of genius. I can just hear people saying “Wow, he’s just like us!!”. LOL. I just have a warm and fuzzy feeling about the Fed right about now.

Gorgeous shade of lipstick they put on the pig.

Comment by exeter
2009-03-15 18:28:37

You mean the Bernanke-panky? I think it was an excellent piece of public relations. And all the small-town background on Benny was a stroke of genius. I can just hear people saying “Wow, he’s just like us!!”. LOL. I just have a warm and fuzzy feeling about the Fed right about now.

Exactly. Reminds when people said, “Heis the type of guy I’d like to have a beer with.” And we know the end result of that bad idea. I was convinced J6P was completely retarded until last Nov. He’s been redeemed a bit.

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Comment by Bob in Vegas
2009-03-15 19:07:32

Pabulum for the suckers. Bernanke-panky needs the suckers who still have money to “invest” so that they can get a fresh haircut.

Comment by Muir
2009-03-15 19:32:37

Yes
+1 palmy and +1 Bob

Aplology to Himmi, I have no idea how my post ended up as a reply to your post.
sorry.

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Comment by Bill in Los Angeles
2009-03-15 19:08:13

Just got back from a 3 and a half hour layover at the Las Vegas airport. Listened to people in the nearby chairs at the waiting area. Party, drink to excess, stay up til 4 in the morning, attend shows, and gamble.

Nothing’s changed. Not sure if there are fewer flights to/from Vegas. But you would not think we’d be in a recession if you were dropped into the airport.

Phoenix: Spring training is at mid-swing (pardon the pun). Lots of visitors still putting $ into the economy. I could see the bad effects in my own Ahwatukee neighborhood Saturday. Came across two injury accidents (one looked very serious) within 3 hours and half a mile. That area is always packed. People do not drive carefully even with heavy traffic. 48th and Ray is the worst intersection in that area.

Comment by rms
2009-03-15 23:42:12

“48th and Ray is the worst intersection in that area.”

It’s the malls on all four corners. Plus, it’s hotter than hell’s kitchen about four months a year, and the traffic lights take forever too.

 
 
Comment by measton
2009-03-15 20:31:08

Banks paying off gov to get Mark to Market accounting removed. This won’t fool anyone but fools, and most of them are in the poor house already.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/106746/Bankers-Say-Rules-Are-the-Problem

Comment by mikey
2009-03-15 21:49:11

If the FEDS would have jumped on both Enron and Arthur Anderson with both feet and locked up a bunch of accountants when they HAD the chance, the Bankers and Bean Counting Boyz wouldn’t be playing games with Generally Accepted Accounting Principles today :)

 
 
Comment by Manny
2009-03-15 21:05:10

His 4,000-square-foot territorial home has yet to sell, although he said he is in negotiations with a potential buyer, and the listed price has dropped from nearly $2 million to $1.5 million as the market has declined. ‘Quite honestly, I have never seen what I call the wealth market be on the sidelines like it is in this time,’ he said. ‘In the years past, the people who have had substantial means don’t alter to any great extent their purchasing. Today, they do. Everyone is taking a wait-and-see attitude.’”

=====================

People who have substantial means aren’t stupid enough to pay $2M when then can pay $1M at some point in the near future.

 
Comment by measton
2009-03-15 21:06:41
 
Comment by Professor Bear
2009-03-16 05:30:37

24/7 Wall Street
Bernanke’s Trouble Forecasting The Future
Posted: March 16, 2009 at 4:52 am

Bernanke may have gotten on TV and felt that he had to say something upbeat to build consumer and business confidence, But, almost everyone who heard him is concerned about losing a job, a home, a business, or the ability to educate a child.

As Jack Nicholson said in the film “As Good As It Gets”, “Sell crazy somewhere else, we’re all stocked up here.”

Douglas A. McIntyre

 
Comment by taxmeupthebooty
2009-03-16 13:38:59

“Mansfield-Richland County Fair Housing Director

does your county have one of these
if so he’ll be getting a raise

 
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